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Monday, September 26, 2016

WASHINGTON — In this election, we’re not having an argument that pits capitalism against socialism. We are trying to decide what kind of capitalism we want. It is a debate as American as Alexander Hamilton, Andrew Jackson, and Henry Clay — which is to say that we have always done this. In light of the rise of inequality and the financial mess we just went through, it’s a discussion we very much need to have now.

The back-and-forth about Bain Capital, Mitt Romney’s old company, is part of something larger. So is the inquest into the implications of multibillion-dollar trading losses at JPMorgan Chase. Capitalism can produce wonders. It is also capable of self-destruction, and it can leave a lot of wounded people behind. The trick is to get the most out of what capitalism does well, while containing or preventing the problems it can cause.

To describe this grand debate is not to deny that President Obama’s campaign has some, shall we say, narrower motives in going after Bain. Obama’s lieutenants need to undermine Romney’s claim that his experience in the private equity business makes him just the guy to get our economy back on track.

The Bain conversation has already been instructive. Romney’s friends no less than his foes have had to face the fact that Bain’s purpose was never about job-creation. Its goal was to generate large returns to Bain’s partners and investors. It did that, which is why Romney is rich.

Romney wants to focus on the positive side of his business dealings that did create jobs. He wants to brag about the companies Bain helped bring to life, among them Staples, Sports Authority and Domino’s.

That’s fair enough. But having made an issue of Bain on the plus side, he also has to answer for the pain and suffering — or, as defenders of capitalism like to call it, the “creative destruction” — that some of Bain’s deals left in their wake.

This leads naturally to the question of how creative the destruction wrought by our current brand of capitalism actually is. Since the dawn of the leveraged buyout era three decades ago, many friends of capitalism have questioned whether loading companies with debt as part of these deals is good for companies and for the economy as a whole.

Does this approach cause unnecessary suffering among the employees of the companies in question and the communities that often lose plants and jobs as a result? Sucking pension and health funds dry to aggrandize investors seems less like a creative act than a betrayal of workers who made bargains with their employers in good faith.

  • widollar

    Mitt Romney’s brand of Capitalism is not good for the middle class of America. His style of “take no prisoners”, and buy on the cheap, fire most of the staff and then hire them back at half their wages is not good for America. This is not the kind of person to lead America!

    • Pingaling

      I agree with you all the way. I just hope our voter citizens will realize this.

      • If Europe is any indication – they will.

    • ChowT

      Mitt Romney is the flag carrier for wall street and unfettered capitalism!

    • montanabill

      Spoken by someone who has no idea what an equity company does. Did you know that they also save businesses that have been so badly managed that they are in dire danger of going completely out of business with the loss of all jobs, not just a few. Did you know that some of the saved companies were able to turn things around and begin expanding and hiring again? Sure some companies are liquidated. Those are the ones that had no path to success and would have failed whether the equity company stepped in or not. I hope that a majority of our voter citizens learned at least something about how capitalism works in school. It is not obvious here.

      • ChowT

        You are condescending in your remarks.

      • I knew Montana Bill — Bill Roberts! He was the Dad of my first friend, Jimmie Roberts, when we both were 5 years old! Ah, those good old days! When I sent my last letter to Jimmie, I got a response back from his son, telling me he had died just the day before. Jimmie had lung cancer — heavy smoker! Glad I never got into smoking. — That’s the start of MY story. I could go on all day, but time is short just now. I’m writing a couple of books. One of them is “Remembering Ismay” (That’s where Jimmie & I grew up. For a while it was known as, “Joe Montana”, for a couple of days or so every year. That was lots of fun.) You can read all about it in my books, if I live long enough (and keep sufficiently on track enough) to get them all done. (And I’ll tell it to you in Esperanto too!

        Allan C. Boschen.

        PS: And I can tell you about one of Montana Bill’s good friends, too. That was my Dad, Charlie Boschen!

        • montanabill

          I’ll be looking for your books, however, I’m not your Montana Bill. I would suspect there are several thousand of us. My handle simply reflects my love the ‘last good place’ (although Idaho and Wyoming are pretty close).

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            like we hadn’t figured that out…..

          • montanabill

            Notice I didn’t include the ‘left coast’.

      • Murphy831

        What an equity company does is make profits for their investors. Assuming that the people here don’t understand that is presumptuous on your part. A company like Bain is not in the business of “job creation”, and even you, as an expert in what an equity company does would surely admit that. Jobs are secondary to the purpose of an equity company. They are a by-product. If jobs come about as a result…great. If they don’t…that’s great too as long as the investment turns a profit, then the equity company has done its job. The bottom line IS the BOTTOM LINE. It’s nothing personal. It’s just business. So, that being the case, just exactly how does Romney’s experience with Bain qualify him as a “job creator”? His record as a governor was terrible with regards to job creation. One of the major problems with the Republican argument is that it’s hypocritical. On one hand they insist that the government doesn’t create jobs, while on the other hand, they blame this president for not creating more jobs.

        The issue at hand today is JOBS. What is it in Romney’s resume that tells us that he can solve that problem? The biggest failing in the Republican argument is the failure to recognize that the Job Creators are actually the consumer. NOT a rich capitalist. They’re fostering a lie, and most people buying it assume that a rich guy is going to provide them a job. That idea is ridiculous. A rich guy is rich because he can reduce his costs of doing buisness. Hiring people adds to his cost. Unless the average consumer is buying a product, whatever that product may be, companies cannot sell their goods or services. When they can’t do that, they lay people off, which only adds to the problem of unemployment. Spending money is what drives the economy. When people have money, they spend it, and that means they spend it on goods and services provided in the private sector. The more they spend, the greater the demand and that demand requires companies to hire more people to fill that demand. When people aren’t spending money then the only alternative is for the government to spend it to stimulate the economy. The presidents jobs program would do that. Hiring thousands of people to help rebuild the infrastructure of this country puts money into their hands which they would spend which would drive demand for local business to hire additional people to service that demand. The real Job Creators are the PEOPLE.

        • montanabill

          Ah! A thoughtful reply. I’d like to broaden your definition a little. All companies, equity or not, are in business to make profits. Job creation is simply a by-product of success. No company goes into business with the idea that their goal is to create jobs. Romney’s experience is that of a man who has had to make hard decisions about whether a company can make a go of it or whether they have enough hard assets to warrant an investment to attempt to try to resurrect it. It is pretty much the role of any decision maker, be it private enterprise or government executive. People are hired when the enterprise is successful and needs to expand.
          As for government spending money to drive the economy, that part of Keynesian economics will work, only if government has a surplus of money. If government has to borrow money to spend, it is exactly like you borrowing money on your credit card in hopes improving your life. You can get away with a little, but after the tipping point is reached, you are simply going to go farther into debt with no hope of every paying it back. You need to spend a little more time examining the President’s jobs program. It can only create jobs at enormous cost. That cost is either heavy taxation, which takes more money out of the economy than it can put back, or heavy borrowing. The cost to all of us, our children and our grand children, for that borrowing will dictate a less brighter future. And all for a few short term jobs that will do little to stimulate the economy. I submit that the real job creators are businesses and entrepreneurs who can use a less fettered capitalistic system to grow and prosper. They will be the job creators.

          • Murphy831

            >”People are hired when the enterprise is successful and needs to expand.””As for government spending money to drive the economy, that part of Keynesian economics will work, only if government has a surplus of money.””If government has to borrow money to spend, it is exactly like you borrowing money on your credit card in hopes improving your life.”“You need to spend a little more time examining the President’s jobs program. It can only create jobs at enormous cost.””And all for a few short term jobs that will do little to stimulate the economy.””I submit that the real job creators are businesses and entrepreneurs who can use a less fettered capitalistic system to grow and prosper. They will be the job creators.”<

            And I submit to you, that none of those entrepreneurs will accomplish a thing unless they can sell their product. And that won't happen unless people can buy them. They can only do that if they are working and getting a paycheck. Consumer demand is what creates jobs. You can have the greatest idea for a product that was ever devised, but unless somebody comes through your door with the money to buy it…you ain't got squat. Remember that necessity is the mother of invention. When there is a demand for a product, there will be a person to fill that demand. There must be a need for something, and no matter what product you have, you need somebody to sell it to. Minus that…you're out of business. Spending money creates jobs. It always has. Whether its the govt spending it, or the individual. If nobody spends money, nothing gets done. If I'm a business man, I'm not hiring anybody until there is enough demand for my product that I need to hire somebody.

          • montanabill

            I stand by my stance on Keynesian economics. There is a very narrow window where government deficit spending can help an economy and we are way past it.
            I also stand by my position on government using borrowed money. All printing more money does is drive inflation as commodities will adjust their values to be commensurate with the money supply. That, in turn, drives up the cost of everything else. Government work projects, such as those instituted by Roosevelt, put people to work but did nothing for the economy. It was the war that lifted the economy but only because Americans scrimped to buy bonds and conserve goods. We were also being paid for war supplies. There is plenty of money available in the private sector to get the economy moving again, but you and I know that won’t happen until business feels comfortable enough with government to make the investments. That is not going to happen in any scale large enough to help the economy as long as the current the current administration is in place. More borrowing and selective spending by government will only serve to forestall any real recovery and put this nation in such severe debt to foreign countries that it will take generations to recover, if that were even possible. It is comforting to the most of us and to many in the world that the U.S. is the dominate nation. That debt could be our undoing.

          • Murphy831

            >”I also stand by my position on government using borrowed money.”“Government work projects, such as those instituted by Roosevelt, put people to work but did nothing for the economy. It was the war that lifted the economy but only because Americans scrimped to buy bonds and conserve goods.””We were also being paid for war supplies. There is plenty of money available in the private sector to get the economy moving again, but you and I know that won’t happen until business feels comfortable enough with government to make the investments””That is not going to happen in any scale large enough to help the economy as long as the current the current administration is in place””More borrowing and selective spending by government will only serve to forestall any real recovery and put this nation in such severe debt to foreign countries that it will take generations to recover, if that were even possible.”<

            Sorry but I can't agree with you here. What you're saying is simply not demonstrably true. The only thing keeping us from a recovery is an intransigent group of ideologues in congress. You haven't demonstrated how anything that I've offered would not improve the interests of the nation. This economy is built on consumerism. Without it you have nothing. You have a product that sits on a shelf. It's more useful to put it in a museum. If you can't sell your product you can't employ anybody. The job creators are the people that buy the product. The product isn't a job. It's a product. That's all it is. It represents an idea. If it's a good idea people will buy it, but not if they have no money and that requires an income. Until you fill that essential element…you have nothing.
            It's really pretty basic. For all the money that is being held in the private sector, what on earth makes you think that it would be used to hire anybody? A smart business man doesn't hire anybody without a demand for what he's selling. These guys didn't become billionaires by being dumb.

          • montanabill

            You made a bad assumption about supporting wars on borrowed money. I certainly did not approve of it. Further, as far as the ‘Bush Tax Cuts’, it has been proven time and again that allowing people to keep more of the money they earn actually helps the economy and results in more revenue for the government. In fact, the balance of your argument supports that contention. The problem is always the same: Congress simply always spends more than the revenue available.
            We will simply have agree to disagree over whether government spending can boost an economy. A dollar taken from the private sector in the form of taxes results in less than dollar put back into the economy by government. A dollar put into the economy by borrowing is a dollar plus interest that must be paid back. A printed dollar put into the economy will have little effect because of the inflation it will cause.
            You know full well why money is not being invested by the private sector. It is because we have a government run by amateurs who, so far, have run roughshod over investors displacing them when they feel like it, dumping immense piles of new regulations on them, not having a clear budget or policy, continually saying one thing and doing another, refusing to cut one single dollar of real spending while demanding increased taxes, and running a demagogue campaign against the producers.
            You are right about the economy being built on consumerism, but without some certainly that building any product, regardless of demand, will profit you, why bother? Here’s a little item to think about when you think about people having borrowed money to buy a product: housing bubble.
            By the way, a low unemployment rate during the war did nothing for the economy. It was all directed at producing disposable war material and few consumer goods were produced. When the war ended, there was a terrific pent-up demand for virtually everything and inexpensive labor to produce it.

          • Murphy831

            >”You made a bad assumption about supporting wars on borrowed money. I certainly did not approve of it. “Further, as far as the ‘Bush Tax Cuts’, it has been proven time and again that allowing people to keep more of the money they earn actually helps the economy and results in more revenue for the government.”””The problem is always the same: Congress simply always spends more than the revenue available.””We will simply have agree to disagree over whether government spending can boost an economy.””You know full well why money is not being invested by the private sector. It is because we have a government run by amateurs who, so far, have run roughshod over investors displacing them when they feel like it, dumping immense piles of new regulations on them, not having a clear budget or policy, continually saying one thing and doing another, refusing to cut one single dollar of real spending while demanding increased taxes, and running a demagogue campaign against the producers. “”refusing to cut one single dollar of real spending while demanding increased taxes, and running a demagogue campaign against the producers. ” First of all, the president offered a Grand Bargain with Speaker Boehener that would have provided a 10 to 1 ratio of cuts to taxes. That would have been a 4.4 Trillion dollar reduction in the deficit. You are screaming about the deficit but you won’t actually do anything about it. It sparked enormous outrage from the left because the cuts targeted Medicare and Medicaid. There were calls to primary the president. And the Republicans turned it down because they all signed a pledge to Grover not to increase taxes by a dime. So don’t talk to me about who’s refusing to negotiate. The right wing in Indiana just primaried Dick Lugar because he talked to the president and are putting up a guy that says all negotiating means is that Democrats come over to the Republican side of things. That’s not negotiating. That’s dictating. And that’s not how things get done in this country. As for demogoguing producers, get serious. Atlas Shrugged was a comic book. John Galt is an appeal to your ego by a woman that was an avowed atheist and pro-abortion. If you believe in her philosophy then you can’t cherry pick what you want. It’s a unified idea. If you take her philosophy than you take it all. That’s all it is. You have complete hypocrites like Paul Ryan who claims Ayn Rand inspired him and changed his life and requires his staff to read her works, and speaks at the Atlas Foundation as their Key Note Speaker..and when the Catholic Church calls his budget plan completely un-Catholic and un-Christian, he actually denies Ayn Rand as an influence. Noooooo…..she wasn’t an influence at all. His position today is that her’s was an Atheistic philosophy which he rejects. Well I’m sure the members of the Atlas Foundation would be surprised to hear that since his speech to them is all on tape.Ryan has stated for the record that Rand was an epiphany for him. That she was the reason he got into politics. Now??? Not so much I guess. He’s one example of the hypocrisy of the conservative. Mitt Romney of course is the most outrageous. Ted Kennedy once said, “I’m pro-choice. Mitt Romney…is multiple choice”. He was to the left of Ted on gay rights…today he’s a “severe conservative”. Mitt is really good at what he does. It’s just that what he does isn’t good for America as a whole. It’s very good for a very small segment of the population. But that…isn’t good enough.

            What this president is about is fairness to the population and not seeing the scales tilted in favor of those that have already benefitted from the system. You have a problem with that? Why?

            >”but without some certainly that building any product, regardless of demand, will profit you, why bother?”” Here’s a little item to think about when you think about people having borrowed money to buy a product: housing bubble.””By the way, a low unemployment rate during the war did nothing for the economy. It was all directed at producing disposable war material and few consumer goods were produced””When the war ended, there was a terrific pent-up demand for virtually everything and inexpensive labor to produce it.”<

            When the war ended, we emerged as the greatest economic power in the world. We finished the decade with unemployment under 4%. We had a GI bill which put returning Vets into college, allowed them to start a business, buy a home, start a family and be a part of the American Dream. As for inexpensive laber to produce it, that's not true. We had very strong unions back then. Wages were always consistant with union wages. My own father was a union printer and he was making a great living. He eventually started his own company. He began a family and put two kids through college. That's all people are looking for. The opportunity to own a piece of America. The opportunity to participate in the American economy. Under Ike ( that socialist) we built the Interstate Highway system; the very system that provides capitalism the means to move it's products. Was it expensive? Sure. Was it worth it? You tell me.

          • montanabill

            Certainly I voted for Bush. Look what my alternatives were. You have conveniently overlooked the fact that Democrats also supported his wars. In fact, since they had control of Congress his last two years, they could have stopped the funding at any time. The question was whether the wars should have been funded on borrowed money. That should not have happened because there was, and remain, ample places to cut government spending by trillions.

            Claiming my statement about cutting taxes is false cannot be historically substantiated. People like you always point to the debt rising when taxes are cut and always fail to take into account that it was a Democrat controlled Congress that raised spending above the increased revenues.

            Increased regulations – at every level. Dodd-Frank is the tip of the iceberg. Do your homework.

            A ‘Grand Bargain’? Offers to cut some level of proposed spending increases against real tax increases. And history shows Congress never lives up to promises about ‘cutting spending’. Put a set of real, actual spending cuts on the table. Or better yet, actually cut some real spending (not reduced increases) and then see if conservatives will take a bargain seriously. Since the rest of the rant on this was simply hot air and strawmen, I won’t waste time responding.

            Saying one thing, doing another: Since you have a short memory, watch the Republican ads. Obama in his own speeches and actions. Surely you have noticed.

            Roosevelt spent tons of money before the war and didn’t put much of a dent into the depression. It was only when other nations started buying war material from us that things started to improve. It was outside money coming into the economy.

            I don’t consider the stock market to be a measure of anything. It is driven by feelings not facts.

            Your statements about starting a business are right on, except that without a little research or planning, the odds of you building a product or service that nobody wants can be pretty high. A good example of good planning is Apple. In a down economy, with over 88 million people unemployed, they created a product that even the poorest among us wanted and managed to buy. However, if that product had to be build in the U.S. and cost 3-4 times as much, would it still have been successful?

            My father was also a union tradesman, but his pay was barely above $1/hr. That was pretty much typical of most jobs after the war in our part of the country. He couldn’t afford to put his kids through college so we got jobs and worked our way through, 3 of us. No scholarships, no loans, no family money. I started working at age 10. I’ve worked for small companies and large companies across the nation, rising into management. I’ve been unemployed (didn’t take unemployment comp). I started and failed at several businesses, but I and my family sacrificed and we finally built a very successful business, all without one dime of anyone else’s money. The American Dream is still available, but you still have to put in the effort. Now spare me all that ‘fairness’ crap.

          • Murphy831

            >”

          • Murphy831

            >”Saying one thing, doing another: Since you have a short memory, watch the Republican ads. Obama in his own speeches and actions. Surely you have noticed”<

            You're telling me that I should watch Republican ads put out by Karl Rove?? That I'll get the truth from Karl Rove?? Why would I think that I'm going to get the truth from Karl Rove? Tell you what, maybe you should take a good look at the ads being run on Romney. Let me know where he stands today on any subject ok? Because by tomorrow he'll pick up the etch a sketch, hit the reset button, and it'll be something different.

          • montanabill

            You shouldn’t care who puts them out. They are of Obama. Obama is doing the talking. Romney is a politician. He ‘evolves’.

          • Murphy831

            You should realize by now that context is everything. Do you not recall the ad by Romney in which words by Obama were edited to suggest that Obama was saying “if we talk about the economy, we’ll lose”? Obama was quoting John McCain when he said that, but the Romney people edited the speech to make it appear that Obama was speaking about himself.

            Karl Rove has been doing this kind of thing for years. Right now he’s running an ad claiming that Obama has been spending outrageously when the fact is that spending is at the lowest it’s been in 60 years. They claim Obama has raised taxes, when he’s actually cut taxes. They moan about the tax policy and yet we are still living under the Bush Tax cuts. It’s Bush’s tax policy they are complaining about.

            You say that Romney is a politician, but in a debate he denied that very thing saying he was a business man and NOT a career politician, even though he’s been running for one office or another since 1994.

            What Mitt Romney is, is probably one of the worst hypocrites I’ve ever seen running for president in my lifetime. He has no charactor at all. There is no substance to this man at all. Rick Santorum was genuine. He was nuts but he was genuine. This guy is empty. At least John McCain set a woman straight when she called Obama an Arab. Romney can’t even bring himself to stand up to the fools at his rally’s. A women calls for Obama to be tried for treason and Romney is silent. What a total douchbag.

          • montanabill

            Please! You are smart enough to know better about Obama’s tax and spend record. So far, the ads I’ve seen did not contain edited material. They simply show Obama making speeches at different places and different times. Obama has not cut taxes. He stopped some level of contributions to Social Security and maintained the current tax rates.
            You are also a person who only sees dirt on one side. Is not Obama a politician? Is he not also totally unprepared for the job of the Presidency? Has he not also been guilty of castigating people who didn’t deserve it?
            His recent quote puts him in good company,
            “I am not a crook”
            “Read my lips”
            “Depends on what the meaning of is, is”
            “Mission Accomplished”
            “I’m not an over-spender”

          • Murphy831

            >”Please! You are smart enough to know better about Obama’s tax and spend record””So far, the ads I’ve seen did not contain edited material.””Obama has not cut taxes.””Is not Obama a politician? Is he not also totally unprepared for the job of the Presidency? “”Has he not also been guilty of castigating people who didn’t deserve it?””His recent quote puts him in good company,”<

            Well most of your quotes are from Republicans. You left out "Sandra Fluke is a slut. She's a prostitute"
            Just what quotes are you talking about?? You're really stretching things here aren't you?

          • Murphy831

            >”I don’t consider the stock market to be a measure of anything. It is driven by feelings not facts.””However, if that product had to be build in the U.S. and cost 3-4 times as much, would it still have been successful?”<

            Well that's the answer to everything isn't it. Just outsource our jobs to get the product cheap. Economism at work. Economic facts, interests, and goals are the facts,
            interests, and goals that should matter most when it comes to policy decisions. Then bitch about unemployment here at home. A company moves it's production over seas, putting more people out of work at home, and then blame the president for the unemployment figures. Dont blame the company that outsources the jobs. Of course not. If you want the company to produces the product at home, then cut the wages of the workers here to match those in China or India. Great idea. Lower the standard of living for Americans in order to maintain the standard of living for the rich industrialist. So what is the benefit of living in the US now? You have no access to anything. You find some kind of morality in that way of thinking? Who benefits from this? Who loses?

          • montanabill

            Excuse me for being a member of the ‘investor class’ who disagrees with you. My comment on the market is generally true because few people check into company fundamentals. If Obama has anything to do with it, it is because he is having an impact on a company’s performance with policy or is a generator of feelings.
            So which is better: no jobs or low paying jobs? People have a choice. In fact, they have the choice to put themselves in a position for a high paying job if they want to put forth the effort. If you think we can change the way the world works by stamping our feet and demanding that people only buy expensively made in America only products, or demanding that we be paid more simply because we wish it, you are dreaming. That ship sailed a long time ago. FYI, the benefit of living in the U.S. now is that it is still a place where you can control your own destiny. However, we are slowly losing that option as government gets more intrusive and individual enterprise and freedoms are usurped , and if you’ll notice, a lot of people who want more freedom to pursue their fortunes are headed to places like Hong Kong. Don’t blame the ‘rich industrialist’. He is not in business to create jobs. No one is in business to create jobs.

          • Murphy831

            >”My father was also a union tradesman, but his pay was barely above $1/hr.”<

            I find that extremely hard to believe. What was his trade, and where were you living?

            Did he buy a house? A car? If so, did he buy them for cash? Or did he finance them? When you started a business, did you get any financing? Are you suggesting that business should never operate on financing from banks? How exactly do you think that business operates today without lines of credit?

          • montanabill

            sheet metal. western U.S. He bought a used ramshackle 800 sq. ft. house on a dirt road when he finally could save enough for a down payment. Paid cash for 6 or 7 year old cars.
            I used no financing to start any business. Yes, most businesses operate with lines of credit. We don’t. We do rent offices in various cities but outright own our corporate headquarters. We pay cash for our inventory. You wouldn’t believe the impact on the bottom line of having no debt or interest to pay. I know it violates all the business school rules, but I’m not going to argue with success or my profit margin.

          • Murphy831

            That’s very industrious Montana. However as you readily admit, it’s not the model for American business. And the fact that your father put up a downpayment, indicates that he indeed financed the rest of the amount. We don’t live in a cash and carry world anymore. Unfortunately many people today are actually having to live that way since their own credit was destroyed in the economic melt-down. Unregulated banks were allowed to jack up interest rates on consumer credit from 3.9% to 30 % and more overnight. Do you know what kind of havoc that creates in a home? In a business that has to finance it’s payroll? It’s inventory? It means that they lose their mobility. The can lose their cars, their homes. Their business. Everything! It’s great to buy a 6 or 7 year old car for cash. Everyone should do that. But that also means that the automakers aren’t selling new vehicles. If they don’t sell them, they have to lay off workers. You can’t keep making a payroll if your product isn’t selling. So who exactly are the Job Creators if not the consumer?

          • montanabill

            We haven’t lived in a cash and carry world for generations. However, there is borrowing and there is borrowing. If you finance a house with an adjustable rate mortgage, you are making a bet. If you finance it with a fixed rate, you know your future. In my book, making a bet you can’t afford to lose is not real smart. I’d apply that to any company that has to finance its payroll. Either they have a bad business model or bad management. If you know what your turn rate is, you can manage your inventory. Why use a debit card that costs 44 cents every time you use it, when cash still works? I’m not familiar with any bank raising its consumer credit cost tenfold. Which ones did that? Ready and affordable credit is a valuable tool for a vibrant economy, but government wrecked that with the Affordable Housing Act. Right now we are reaping the backlash and ripple effect that act created. The uncertainty created by our huge debt, talk of spending even more, potential tax increases, uncertainly about Europe, do you keep the ever more expensive medical insurance for employees or dump them on the government, the looming inflation from all the newly printed money and the huge pile of ever growing regulations on all businesses are all serving to dampen economic activity. True, we do need consumers, but business expansion is a gamble in the best of times. If you don’t like the odds, you don’t expand, no new jobs, no new consumers.
            My personal experience is that my bank is falling all over itself to lend me money. Fortunately, I don’t need it. So, I’m not sure whether I’m getting a valid perspective or not regarding the availability of money.

          • Murphy831

            “I’m not familiar with any bank raising its consumer credit cost tenfold. Which ones did that?”

            CitiBank. But they weren’t the only one.

          • montanabill

            I will have assume from that answer that some banks did not raise their costs. It’s a competitive market. If I don’t get a good interest rate or costs rise too much at my bank, I fire them and get another.

          • Murphy831

            Don’t assume that. I’m only speaking from personal experience with CitiBank. There were congressional hearings on the entire banking industry and a law was passed restricting the amount of interest that could be charged.

          • ObozoMustGo

            >”We borrowed money to pay for the tax cuts””John Galt is an appeal to your ego by a woman that was an avowed atheist and pro-abortion. If you believe in her philosophy then you can’t cherry pick what you want. It’s a unified idea. If you take her philosophy than you take it all.”<

            You have destroyed everything else you have said with this statement. It is entirely possible, no, in fact mostly likely, that a person can agree with one's philosophy on one issue and not on others. Who agrees with everyone on everything? No one does. So your point, along with all others, is actually nothing more than a bunch of leftist hyperbole, and an argument for bigger government and smaller individuals.

            Have a nice day!

          • Murphy831

            >”It is entirely possible, no, in fact mostly likely, that a person can agree with one’s philosophy on one issue and not on others.””Who agrees with everyone on everything? “<

            You do Bozo. You're a conservative aren't you? What part of conservatism don't you agree with?

      • joujou228

        Was Mitt Romney hired to try to save as many jobs as possible or to make as much profit for his company and in the process make a heck of a process for himself and shareholders? We should not debate whether what he did was good or bad, but rather ask ourselves is he telling the truth when he says his private sector experience helped him uunderstand how to create jobs. If you think so then vote for him, if not vote for Obama.

        • montanabill

          He was not hired to save jobs, nor was he hired to fire people. His company made decisions about investing in companies. The goal was to invest in companies that could either be turned around and made profitable or which had enough assets such that, if turn around was not feasible, the assets could be sold. Much as been made about the companies that could not be saved, but little has been said about the companies that, once restructured, thrived. Regardless of the crass rhetoric, it is never easy for an executive to make the decision to fire people but in all businesses and even in government, it is sometimes a necessary process. Just think about the decisions you would have to make in investing in a variety of companies that were already in trouble. Then consider the trouble this country is in. Would it not be a good idea to try a man who has had considerable experience in turn-arounds as opposed to a man who has absolutely no experience and is basically trying to talk his way through everything?

          • joujou228

            How much did he or his investors loose. They made out with millions whether the companies were or were not successful.

          • montanabill

            Mark of a smart businessman: knowing where to invest your money. Do some investigation of equity capital firms.

          • joujou228

            I agree, he is a very smart man, and he had the means and the know how to invest, however that’s not his argument, that’s yours, he needs to come clean and say that it was about creating wealth not jobs.

          • montanabill

            The business of saving companies and investing in new ventures is about creating viable businesses which will create wealth not only for the equity company but also for the investors. As a business gets successful it creates jobs. They go hand-in-hand. No one goes into business with the express purpose of creating jobs. That is a by-product.

          • joujou228

            I guess you’re smarter than Romney, or he didn’t get your memo. He needs to make his case and let the President can respond. Not every sucessful business creates jobs. I own a real estate company, have licensed independent agents. I am very successful at what I do, but I would not call myself a job creator.

          • montanabill

            If any of your independent agents depend on your resources for their work, you are a job creator. Do you hire any secretaries, web masters, maintenance people, etc. If so, you are a job creator. If your business advertises, you are indirectly a job creator. Everything your business requires, e.g. office supplies, business travel, telephone service, internet access, and much more, sustains and create jobs. It is you and the hundreds of thousands of small businesses that are the primary job creators.

          • joujou228

            You think then I should run for President?

          • Murphy831

            >”Would it not be a good idea to try a man who has had considerable experience in turn-arounds as opposed to a man who has absolutely no experience and is basically trying to talk his way through everything?”<

            I would answer no for two reasons. The first is that Romney's considerable experience in turn-arounds has nothing to do with the issue of jobs. If I were interested in finding a guy that would create profits for investors, then Romney might be my guy. However, the US Govt. is a non-profit. Romney has no experience in running a non-profit. You're using apples to define oranges. Romney's entire mentallity and experience is based on profit and loss. Again, the object of Bain Capitol is to produce wealth for investors. It is NOT to create jobs. Jobs are a bye-product of what Romney and Bain did, not the "purpose" of what they did. If they could create the profit by eliminating jobs…fine. That would be like suggesting that the object of a carpenter is to create sawdust rather than a table. If the table can be built without the sawdust by using plastic…then fine. Maybe it's cheaper to make. Now I have more profit. If they could create profits through "creative destruction" of a company, then thats' what they'd do.

            Secondly the argument that "the man in the White House today has no experience and is "basically" trying to talk his way through everything" is nothing more than a subjective generalized charactorization on your part. It's your opinion, which you're entitled to, but opinions are like A-holes. Everyone has one. He actually does have more experience in running a government than Romney. Romneys record as a governor is miserable regarding job creation, and the budget for the state of Massachussetts is hardly the same as that of the entire US. On a critical issue Obama rescued the US auto industry through a loan that saved probably around one million jobs. A loan which has been paid back and put those companies at the top once again. Romney would have let them go bankrupt costing the economy millions of jobs and the destruction of an entire American industry.

            Another point to recognize is that the job of president is more than that of some CEO. He is also CIC, and on that score I'm impressed with what the current guy has done.

          • DurdyDawg

            Murphy831 ***** Montanabill *… ‘Nuff Said.

      • SaneJane

        Maybe you are just talking about percentages here. How many were helped and how many were destroyed? Is isn’t that people don’t know what an equity company does, it is that they don’t approve of what they do. Your post reads like you think they went into each deal only to “help” the troubled companies. Well, they helped alright. They helped themselves to many millions of dollars. Also, what did they risk? They invested some money of their investors but the majority was borrowed money. Who was at risk? Who benefited? Who lost?

        • montanabill

          I would recommend that you google, ‘democrats defending Bain’ for answers you might trust.

        • viewfromtheleftcoast

          while checking into those percentages……check out the money (tax payers money) that assisted Bain, and local taxes raised that assisted Bain in the “big” success stories touted……(not the example of the small government being touted by Romney and his fellow repubs)….I think you’ll find that the majority of risk was taken by the tax payers, just like the auto bail out (which has been paid back)….(do we know if Bain paid back it’s loans from the government, Federal and Local)……so how can Romney and repubs., support and not support the same policy????????

          • SaneJane

            Exactly.

      • hubydoll166

        That was for a reason..so they could tank the company when they could pocket the most from doing so. They cant tank a company that has nothing they could benefit from..duh..so they got it healthy in order to tank it for more profit…that should give your brain some workout..mr duh.

        • montanabill

          I’m sorry you don’t understand the capitalist system that built the U.S. There is a really good teacher named Jack Chambless who teaches economics (real economics) at Valencia College in Florida. Maybe he has some on-line courses.

      • hubydoll166

        That was for a reason..so they could tank the company when they could pocket the most from doing so. They cant tank a company that has nothing they could benefit from..duh..so they got it healthy in order to tank it for more profit…that should give your brain some workout..mr duh.

      • Agrelou

        There is a difference between making money and creating wealth. Romney and his ilk make money, but they do not create wealth

        • montanabill

          You need a lesson on equity firms.

      • joyscarbo

        Really, Bill…do you really think all our country needs is a private equity investment CEO? Is that all the president needs to know? How to take struggling companies…makes some work and other…suck out what profit is left and let them go bankrupt. Which states do you think will go? Mississippi?…it seems like a lame state that Mitty and the boys could suck some cotton cash outta there and let it go by the wayside. We didn’t need it. Right? Or rape North Dakota for all the crude!! YEAH…we need to find some big oil company to pipe that shit into their CEO’s bank accounts. California is nearly gone now…they have really expensive colleges but good beaches. Profit to be had there! Squeeze out whatever the states have to give…..to give to the “small government.”
        What a wonderful world this would be. No more jobs, but millionaires and billionaires swinging from the Golden Gate Bridge to the up to Boeing where they take their seats in first class. And up, up and away!! Look at how littel those really little people look from up here….they look like I could step on them. Who cares that they’re asking for a job or something to eat….or please!! My mommy has cancert…but noo one knows what to do…except to sings. and find things to help….Houses are just lean-to’s and we really try to keep going to a job but the CEO says, “I’ve got a little kid in Guadamala to do that for me…

        Remembering when the days had some feellings of hope. Hope felt so good. Hope could do things like provide all the ingredients to happiness, even if gas was over $5 dollars per gallon. Where is mohammed? I thought he was our friend this time.

        Who are over there in those jets coming this way fast?? I don’t recognize them. Are they plains coming from Syria? Egypt? or…worsse…Libiya? Has anyone tried to talk to them yet? They look a littel pissed! THey have red eyes…they must be tried of us only thinking about where we’ll get our next pair of LouBoutions frrom. May be the wont hurt us. Maybe they’re see we’re victims of the apathy, and starvation and amnesia. They’ll know and feel sorry for us right? We need~ We need!! Martini! Need some weedi!!

        What is that big thingt under ;your burkuh?? no…thaat you’re hidiing is it the president that you’re hiding? Is everyone now knowing what he means now? Is there time to say what you mean? Do what ;you mean?

        Private equity markets…such rowdy little rascuals that need conveinceing that we need a way out.

        • montanabill

          Was there a clue to a way out in your rant? You also neglected to denigrate Romney’s other experiences, such as Governor of a state or savior of the Salt Lake Olympics. He also had other jobs before those. Check those out and pooh-pooh them while planning to vote for a guy with no experience and no personal successes, other than Presidential con man.

          • joyscarbo

            Romney isn’t running on his record as the Govenor of Massachusetts- only his record as a business man for Bain. As a matter of fact, he hasn’t asked the voting public to look to his record as Govenor at all. Don’t forget that he was the architect of “Romneycare” in Massachusetts which is strikingly similar to “Obamacare.” As Goveneor, he also supported a woman’s right to choose in matters of her reproductive health. Additionally Mitt openly supported rights for gay people as well. He said he, “…ran to the LEFT of Ted Kennedy.” I don’t get WHO Romney really is! Is he really a moderate republican? Is he really, “severely conservative” as he claims? Or is Romney just saying what he’s told to say to get elected? Mitt doesn’t seem to have a real solid opinion or political stance that he hasn’t contradicted. So I ask you…who the hell IS the REAL Mitt Romney??!!

          • montanabill

            Here is an area where we agree. Unfortunately, like most politicians, including the President, it appears he will say whatever he thinks will help him get elected. He does have one opportunity for redemption. If he comes out with a solid plan for rebuilding the economy, that will set him apart from the President who has produced two budget plans that were unanimously rejected by Congress. Given that he has experience in both business and government, maybe his successes and failures have given him the knowledge to produce such a plan. Unfortunately, the President had no such preparation for the job and is still learning from failures.

          • joyscarbo

            Unfortunately, Bill, I don’t think the US economy is nothing like an equity company. I don’t think his business background will serve much. I’m more worried that Mitt doesn’t seem to have political savvy, which is required in this global economy. Reagan was an actor and a “C” average student who studied economics in a small college, yet he is regarded as one of our greatest presidents by many. (Personally, I don’t think so, but it’s the truth.) I just don’t know who Mitt Romney really is. If you can’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything and that’s what I think you republicans are getting if you don’t find out what this many is TRULY about and soon!!!

          • montanabill

            And you make those comments yet vote for a man about whom very little of his personal history is known, a man who seems to have arrived at every position in his life with no achievements, a man who, even more than Romney, talks out of both sides of his mouth, a man who offers no detailed solutions to any problem, just platitudes or demagoguery, a man completely disregards the rule of law (GM, ACA, Fast & Furious) and a narcissist of the first order. At least Mitt has a resume with real accomplishments on it.

          • joyscarbo

            That’s where you’re woefully wrong, Bill. I know my candidate. He’s an American with christian beliefs. He went to Occidental College for 2 years and then went to Columbia Univ. He studied foreign affairs and polyscience…received his degree in polyscience. Spent a year at a global business firm and when on to Harvard where he was elected to the Harvard Law Review. He graduated magna cum laude- the highest honor. He worked helping the disadvantaged in the projects of Chicago. He served in the Illinois state senate for 8 years and then won a national senate seat in 2004 and became president in 2008. He is nothing but an honorable husband and good father to two daughters and he’s tried to work with the conservative side of politics only to be met with rigid obstinance. I believe in the work he is trying to do and that’s my right to choose. Please don’t suggest that I don’t know my candidate.

          • montanabill

            I’m afraid I do have to say that you don’t know your candidate. How did he get into Occidental? How did he get into Columbia? What did he do at ‘a global business firm’? How did he get elected to the Harvard Law Review? What papers did he publish? Have you read his biographical books? Do you know what he was teaching as a ‘Constitution professor’? What were the circumstances of his elections to local offices? I would have been impressed if he graduated with honors with a difficult degree, but ‘polyscience”? His religious convictions are more than a little suspect (though irrelevant), but I will grant you that he appears to be a good family man. As a conservative, I strongly disagree that he has tried at all to work with conservatives. It is a case of all talk and no actions. It always turns out to be, ‘do it my way’. And finally, exactly what work is he trying to do? If you know, tell the rest of us where we can find the definitive plan. Anyone can spout platitudes, but having a real plan with real milestones has never appeared. In fact, everything he claimed he could do when running in 2008, has not been accomplished.

          • joyscarbo

            Yes, I’ve read his two books. He went to college and acured student debt like the majority of us. He was a researcher at the global business firm- he did that for a year. He did some drugs when at Occidental and for all intesive purposes it appears he straightened himself out, as evidenced by his successfully graduating from Columbia with a political science degree—not a nose-picking major, by the way. His law degree is from Harvard, where he was legitimately elected as president of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated with the highest honors. Yes, I know he lectured on the constitution. I guess you could say I lecture and argue about the constituition as well when I see what I interpret as violations.
            You know, this is all the typical paranoid diatribe of the conservative right that have stopped at nothing to smear Obama since he ran for president in 2008. The republicans have blocked every attempt to work with them. No one really can dispute that. Their stubborn unwillingness to work with Dems is fact, not fiction. Repubs have even gone against their own ides when Obama agreed with them. It’s just disgusting to watch. I don’t understand Arizona and continuing the whole birther movement. Obama was born in Hawaii and his birth certificate has been verified!! This kind of cointual character assination is not merely FACT- it’s the worst kind of infamy imaginable.
            I have not always liked everything that Obama has done in his administration. I felt he should have fought harder against the conservative right!!! In any event, even if I didn’t like Obama, what is my choice here? Mitt Romney is NOT to be trusted. Not because he’s a republican, but because of his actions and words. He’s flip-flopped on every issue, he’s has character problems. His lack of ability to take responsibility for a his immature and cruel actions in high school is something that’s very problematic to me. I would be able to give Mitt a pass on the whole high school bullying incident if he just admitted to it- owned it and admitted that he was of poor judgement and character at 18 years of age. But unlike the other’s involved, who said this was a shameful act that they engaged in, Mitt can’t admit it and claims he doesn’t remember. That’s evidence of a major character malfunction. He’s too privileged to say he’s ever done anything wrong. Obama admits to experimental drug use freely and says he was wrong for it. He’s not trying to say he doesn’t remember. Mitt can’t identify with the majority of the population.
            I can’t get with republican ideology these days. Republicans are attacking their own if they happen to be moderate or more liberal. (Like Romney was, remember?) Their platform has nothing to do with improving the economy and preserving basic civil rights. Gays are on the republican’s hit list. Women shouldn’t have be able to get insurance-paid birth control or access to medically safe abortions if they so choose. Cutting programs that ONLY affect the weakest among us- the elderly, the poor, disabled, etc. Even the catholics are condemning Ryan’s budget that Romney call’s, “quite fabulous.” It helps the rich but no one else. I’m sorry…I can’t support an ideology that will hurt and damage so many of my fellow Americans. I won’t do it. You can crow until the cows come home, Bill, but I won’t ever support the republicans as long as they are toting this party line of their’s.

          • montanabill

            Obviously being raised by Marxists and having a penchant for communist philosophy must have just been a phase. Starting his political career in the home of a Marxist/terrorist must have just been an oversight. Suppose for just one minute that Romney had been raised by white supremacists and started his political career in the home of a Klan member. Would you have been just as quick to dismiss that as ancient history? I once pulled a girl’s pigtails in the first grade, does that make me a misogamist? Bringing up kid stuff from 50 years ago is just petty at best and indicates a lack of anything substantial to try to lay on Romney. The same with the crap that the left is trying to attach to his wife. Searching old dressage stories for dirt! How petty is that?
            Barack was elected to the Harvard Law Review on what basis? Have you ever seen where he published an outstanding paper, or any paper? He lectured on the 14th Amendment. It is absolutely amazing to me that you think political science would be a tough degree! As far as blocking everything that Obama wanted to do, sure. Exactly as Harry Reid is blocking everything the Republicans want to do. Neither side wants to compromise their principles, so obstructionism is not exclusively a Republican problem. Mitt doesn’t live the way the majority of the population does, but he did in his early years. The difference is, he was successful at his chosen field.
            You need to actually read the Republican agenda. They are not for cutting benefits to the poor, the aged or the disabled. They are for cutting the tremendous duplication and overlapping of the bureaucracies that provide these services and the associated over-spending and fraud that go with those bureaucracies. You haven’t actually read Ryan’s budget either. At least he had the guts to write it down and put it out for debate. Where’s the Democrat equivalent?
            I know you don’t think so, but you are, in fact, supporting an ideology is detrimental to everything that built the U.S. It revolves around government making all the decisions and taking away individual initiative under the guise of ‘fairness’. Try to define ‘fairness’ in something other than platitudes.
            In my many years in business and time around Washington, I have seen my share of B.S. artists. Some who managed to fool a lot of smart people for a time. Eventually, you learn to recognize them no matter how good the presentation. But I have to admit, Obama is among the best I have ever seen. But that doesn’t negate the fact that he was, and is, a B.S. artist.

          • joyscarbo

            Yeah, Bill…you just support Romney as if you know the guy. You’re such a facist, elitist you must be proud of your candidate whose only political REAL political record was what you describe as, “a communist marxist.” I’m not offended by your claims I’m a communist or a marxist either…that’s all you can say when anyone cares about the poor, the elderly and the disabled. I guess Jesus Christ was marist/communist too? I hope you don’t claim to be any kind of christian because your hate filled rant shows what you really are. You talk more like a separatist, bigoted asshole and I’ve become bored with that same old paranoia.

          • montanabill

            Then it appears you really didn’t read Obama’s books. There was nothing hate filled about reporting what he wrote himself. Maybe you need to reread your own post to see if you can find hate.

          • joyscarbo

            Nawww…no hate towards anyone. I was waiting for your reply to Murphy831. Great exchange but it looks as if Murph got the last word.
            But again…good luck with Mitt. I guess you can say he’s ambidextrous- uses both the right and the left.

          • joyscarbo

            And by the way…you ADMIT to pulling a gir’s pigtails and I assume by what you say, you learned that this was not the gentlemanly thing to do. You don’t claim amnesia! You can’t even make a decent arguement for Mitt Romney.
            Obama is gonna whip this flip-flopping, pig back to his Mormon tabernacle. You won’t be able to do anything but sit there and cry. Good luck and have a nice day.

          • joyscarbo

            Oh yeah, Bill, and Murphy831 is waiting for you to reply- to the defend the indefensible. You have nothing.

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            does “our number one priority is to make this president a one term president” sound familiar?

            it has been the Repubs. #1 priority……the use of the filibuster has been brought to new heights…. where the minority rule the senate… to carry out
            the pledge: “our number one priority is to make this president a one term president” ….this before he even served one day…what was that all about?

          • montanabill

            Ok then, I can assume your number one priority was to make Bush a two term President! Or were you part of the group that claimed he stole the first election? Is, somehow, Harry Reid’s blocking bills from the House any different than a filibuster? This stuff is called politics. My side is right…your side is obstructing us.

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            Bill, the quote was first made in December, 2008, (and many, many times for the last 3 1/2 years) it was referring to Obama, not Bush…..

            And you’re right, I did not vote for Bush, either time, nor am I into conspiracy theory…..

            Blocking bill is different than a filibuster….look it up….then look up the statistics regarding both, done by both parties for the last 3 1/2 and compare them to the previous 8 years…..that will be an education for you……

          • montanabill

            I fully understood what the quote was about. I was simply pointing out that whether spoken aloud or not, Democrats in 2000 had the same idea.
            Blocking is blocking, no matter how it is done. However, a filibuster can be broken whereas Reid won’t even take a chance on discussion or any Democrats breaking ranks.

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            In 2000, there wasn’t the nasty politics as there are now….Senators spoke to one another with dignity and respect….they listened to one another …..This new republican party is not the one my father belonged to, Wm. F. Buckley saw it coming and wiped his hands…

            As you said both sides block and filibuster. I ask that you look at the statistics of the last three plus years, compared to the previous eight.

          • montanabill

            To what purpose? The left has moved farther left and right has shifted farther right. Neither side has shown one ounce of compromise toward the other, except for shallow words. As with the rest of the world, this country’s economy will not begin to improve until we get our finances in order. That doesn’t mean increasing taxes and promising to reduce the increases in even more spending. Until real spending cuts are put on the table, I fully agree with blocking everything. The best and easiest plan that would inflict the least amount of pain is the simple elimination of automatic increases and the reduction of all budgets by 1% a year for a few years.

      • AUSTaxpayer

        Sorry Bill,

        You can take your GOP banter and pander it to those that have not seen all of those production jobs go overseas after the plants were locked up and liquidated for profit by the very people you are defending here. Those with closed eyes will believe you while the rest of us who watched in horror, for the past 30 years, while the standard of living for the middle class was taken away in order to add yet more cash to the greedy ultra rich. Go investigate the closing of the Maytag plants in Iowa and the revoking of the Maytag retirees health benefits by the new owners. The company made the best washing machines and dryers and was always profitable until it was taken over and driven into debt. Now the name lives on, attached to substandard quality products, while the people of small town Newton Iowa are underemployed. Thanks a bunch for your contribution to our once great country.

        • montanabill

          I’ll look into the Maytag story. While I’m doing that, google “Democrats defending Bain”.

        • montanabill

          Ok, I researched the story of Maytag. It seems they were in financial trouble as early as 2003. At that time they started letting workers go to try to stop their bleeding. However , it was not an equity company that bought them, it was Whirlpool, a competitor, in 2006. Whirlpool had manufacturing plants that were not heavily union and could produce a product at a lower cost. So your premise about Maytag being always profitable is not correct. It was not taken over and driven into debt. It was on the verge of collapse when acquired by Whirlpool. I’m sorry for the people of Newton, but no more sorry than I am about the companies that manufactured buggy whips when the automobile appeared. Times change.

          • AUSTaxpayer

            Again you only have looked a the tip of the iceberg. The managers who drove Maytag into debt, by acquiring other small companies until they were over extended, were former Whirlpool executives. These guys took a profitable company and drove it into debt, so their former employers could buy the business on the cheap. After Maytag was acquired, they shutdown the plants and later after the union contract was up for renewal, revoked the retirees medical insurance.

            BTW Whirlpool still sells the Maytag brand, a much cheesier version of the products which are of course no longer made in Newton or by unionized employees.

            Making a comparison between buggy whips and the highest quality appliances made in the US is a bit of a reach as well.

            How do I know all of this? Because I was raised in that little Iowa town and most of my family and friends were connected in one way or another with the Maytag Company. We all watched as the company was gutted, acquired and the plants were closed.

          • montanabill

            That level of detail didn’t pop up in my quick search. However, I have a question. Suppose Maytag had not done any acquisitions. Could a Maytag operating as it did then be competitive in today’s market? If so, and if the facilities in Newton are capable of being reactivated, why hasn’t the community sought out an equity company like Bain, presented a business plan and tried to resurrect the manufacturing business?

      • viewfromtheleftcoast

        montanabill…..so your saying that this is why we need Romney……so following your reasoning…….we should just jettison, say Michigan, maybe Mississippi, and oh yeah, California…..so those that aren’t doing so well, we’ll just dump them, after we take whatever natural resources or anything else of value……..

        equity companies are NOT job creators, they are about creating wealth for a few….those are not qualifications for deciding foreign policy, nor about helping those who don’t have means, nor does it educate those who don’t have rich daddies like he had….

        • montanabill

          So funding new companies so they can grow and restructuring badly managed companies so they can grow doesn’t create jobs? I think you got your lines from Axelrod.

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            So, the answer to my questions are?????????

      • ObozoMustGo

        Hi montana! I hope you are well today!

        It seems as though it’s as easy to spot complete ignorance and a juvenile view of economics around this place as it is to spot trees in a forrest… I’m just sayin. widollar is just the latest useful idiot to show up on the scene.

        Have a nice day.

    • I too agree, Mitt Romney is a venture capitalist. President Obama a human capitalist. Romney is for those who won’t dip into his pockets or profits. He and his cohorts (GOP)are not for the needy, in other words – are there no workhouses, are there no more debtor’s prisons, if there is a surplus of the needy better for them to die and decrease the surplus population. George DubaU’s regret was that he didn’t get to privatize social security and if truth be truly researched those WOMD were brought up to to begin the war so that the elite could make money, billions of it for their own coffers. President of the United States is for all humankind. We fight against love, whether it be between male/female or male/male, female/female but shouldn’t we be fighting against war, hatred of other races and ethnicities, hunger, poverty, etc. . You won’t hear this from the GOP nor the Tea Party. It is not in their best interests which is only themselves.

  • PingMan0843

    The purpose of capitalism is not to create high paying jobs; it is to make money for the owners. One bi-product of making money is creation of jobs. Private Equity companies invest in companies that are in trouble and often about to fail — all jobs being lost. They make money by turning the companies around which often means getting lots of waste out, replacing much of management, putting together a growth strategy, upgrading tools and equipment, getting them operating efficiently, and then selling them for more than they invested. This is a very risky business with most of the investments failing to make money. But the 10-20% of the businesses that are successfully turned around that make up for those that don’t. It is the profit motive that results in many of these companies staying around that would have otherwise gone out of business with all the jobs lost. Focusing on creating jobs is a fool’s errand; focusing on creating profit drives everything else. This is why socialism always fails; it attempts to reward everyone the same wealth (in theory) and in the end fails to produce any wealth for anyone.

    • ChowT

      You know something about Vulture capitalism and the Octopus that sucks up everything from the ecosystem!

      • ObozoMustGo

        Chow…. you’ve been eating too many brownies with the “funny stuff” cooked into them.

        Have a nice day!

        • ChowT

          Ha Ha Ha. Dont get angry when you dont get the reply you want. I am entitled to my opinion. That is democracy.

          • ObozoMustGo

            WOW! A lefty with a sense of humor. How rare! 🙂 🙂 🙂 LOL

            Have a nice day!

          • The only thing you are good at is insulting those you disagree with and praising those who do. You will not win anyone to your view as your arguments only appeal to those with like views. Please go to Faux where you will doubtless be viewed more favorably.

          • ObozoMustGo

            As I have stated elsewhere, I dont care one single bit about changing the minds of you leftist nutjobs on The Memo. Most of you are so far gone, so far sucked into the lies and false promises of redistributionist/socialist ideologies that you cannot possibly be cured of such a disease by someone making posts that disagree with your views on a web site like The Memo. You come here to have your views reaffirmed so you feel good about yourself.

            I don’t do that. I like coming here precisely BECAUSE I like being challenged.

            I am a liferaft of truth in this sea of leftist nutjob insanity.

            Have a nice day!

    • rmarqua2921

      There is a big difference between capitalism and vulture capitalism! And Bain is the vulture of the vulture capitalism! Furthermore, we are talking about someone leading a government, NOT A BUSINESS! Government is not about making a profit! Unfortunately, for you government is about creating jobs, and its purpose is not to make a profit! The big waste that Bain got out of these companies was PEOPLE! GOVERNMENT IS IN THE BUSINESS OF PEOPLE!

      • ObozoMustGo

        rmarq…. uhhhh buddy…. the government is NOT about creating jobs for people, unless they work for the military or justice department. Where in the Constitution does it say that the government’s duty is to “create jobs”? What kind of idiot are you? Ohh that’s right… a leftist nutjob type of idiot!

        Have a nice day!

        • rmarqua2921

          You are so typically, Republican, You always turn to calling other people names! I think it called “bullying”. You have no good ideas so you just try to yell down your opponents! Tell me one word in my response to you, in which I call you a name or question your sanity! Every successful government in this world is about creating jobs for its people! Its a big part of part of what they do! What is the purpose of trade agreements? Our government has many trade agreements with other countries with the expected outcome being the creation of jobs for our citizens! Jobs bring taxes, money, to the government so it can provide services to its people! The government creates an environment where your fat cats like your friends, maybe you, can invest. I don’t have a problem with capitalism, and I don’t even have a problem with people getting rich! But, I don’t think vulture capitalism is good for our country! It is counterproductive! I can’t imagine a good CEO thinking that destroying jobs and setting their company up for bankruptcy by gutting it like Bain and Mr. Romney did so blatantly! Companies exist because of a demand for their product and services! If the workers don’t have a job, or don’t make much money, how can buy the companies products and services? The Chinese are not buying much American, the Americans are buying Chinese! And the way vulture capitalists are destroying the middle class, the Americans won’t even be able to buy Chinese! Everyone loses in your system! Now maybe you can respond without name calling!

          ________________________________
          From: Disqus
          To: [email protected]
          Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 1:53 AM
          Subject: [thenationalmemo] Re: A Choice Of Capitalisms

          Disqus generic email template

          ObozoMustGo wrote, in response to rmarqua2921:
          rmarq…. uhhhh buddy…. the government is NOT about creating jobs for people, unless they work for the military or justice department. Where in the Constitution does it say that the government’s duty is to “create jobs”? What kind of idiot are you? Ohh that’s right… a leftist nutjob type of idiot!
          Have a nice day!

          Link to comment

          • ObozoMustGo

            rmarq… dont be so thin skinned. The insults and names are all in good fun. You should see the amount I get from the lefties around here. I’m just giving back.

            You and I have a fundamental disagreement over what the proper role of the federal government is. It is NOT the role of the federal government to CREATE jobs. The private sector does that. And where we have maximum freedom, capitalism thrives because individuals, pursuing their own interests, MUST first serve the interests of others.

            For you to make an argument that government creates jobs because it negotiates trade treaties is a monumental stretch. Why? Because among the few responsibilities our Fed government actually does have according to the Constitution, regulating interstate and international trade IS one of them. And simply negotiating a trade agreement is NOT the same as starting a company that creates jobs.

            Your references to “vulture capitalism” provide a significant window into your extreme lack of understanding and ignorance of how the investment world, particularly private equity and venture capital, actually works. It’s also an indication of how easily you get sucked into the strawman arguments of the Obozo campaign and the propaganda they spew.

            Private equity guys typically invest in businesses that may be failing for one reason or another. They evaluate the assets of a company, their products/services, and their markets and seek to find ways that those assets can be reconfigured, redeployed, or other ways to create value where none exists. Without PE guys, the vast majority of those companies would go belly up. In Bain’s case, it is 100% true that 22% of their investments failed. But it is also true that 78% of their investments worked out and those companies survived.

            Think of it this way. If you have money to invest, are you more interested in putting your money into a loser or a winner? You already know the answer. You want a winner. Why do you think Romney or any other investor would be different than you? They are not. The only difference is that a PE guy is going to reduce his risks by spreading his investments around to multiple companies. That’s called diversification. No different than what you do with your IRA or 401K. Some stocks you put your money in will lose, but over a long period of time, you expect that you will grow your portfolio with more winners than losers. PE guys are not really any different. And you cant fault them for trying to cut their losses or break even when they have a loser investment just like you cant fault yourself for doing the same.

            Venture capital is only different insofar as they invest predominantly in new companies that are not public. A venture firm puts together a fund that is going to be focused on a certain industry or type of investment. They call their rich buddies and collect money from them in hopes of providing very strong returns like 20%, 30% 40% or more over a few years. Then, a couple of scientists or engineeers or whatever put together a new business idea and organize it into a business plan. They present the plans to the VC firm in hopes of getting funded. If the VC likes the plan, they agree to invest a million, 2 million, maybe more in the first round of investments. Those scientists, engineers, or whatever, then take that money and they rent offices, labs, equipment, etc etc., and they HIRE people. Now you leftists dont like this, but the rich guy’s money just “trickled down” and created jobs. With some luck, time, and more money, the company grows and adds more people. Perhaps at some point, they do and IPO and raise a lot more money for continued growth. Many of those VC funded companies never make it. A few do. And the few that do pay for all the losers that did not with very big scores.

            This is the way the world works, my friend. I am sorry to inform you, but that’s true. I know because I make my living consulting to small VC funded companies and PE backed companies looking to get another chance to succeed.

            So, before you go off biting on every bait that the Obozo propaganda machine (The Memo is a part of that machine) throws at you, do some thinking for yourself about how the world around you actually works. How people really think. Dont be so quick to criticize based on emotional and envy/jealousy driven impulses that really have no basis in reality.

            I hope this helps.

            Have a nice day!

  • The REAL debate which has been bravely opened here is, as the author suggested, not between Capitalism and Communism, but between FREE ENTERPRISE and PLUTOCRACY. Almost all of the ‘innovations’ in finance and business are moves in the direction of Plutocracy. If only we could treat MBA’s and financial types the way we treated the Native Americans during the 1800-1870 era, MOST OF US WOULD BENEFIT. It is unrealistic to dream that the changes that need to be made in this country can be made by nonviolent means; WE WILL NEED TO FIGHT A WAR RIGHT HERE AT HOME.

  • This is America,and Capitalism is a big part of it but as a nation its flawed badly when the 1% hates to give back to the nation for making them so wealthy.The rich getting richer,and the middle class is dropping down to the poor.Well if we keep going like this it will be just two classes ,the Rich and the Poor.Maybe thats what Romney wants then there would be know one to complain.

    • ChowT

      The rich has suck up everything from the eco system. The whole eco system is devoid of life.

      They kill the goose which lay the golden eggs.

      Yet now they are calling for more un fettered capitalism.

      Romney is the fronf for wall street.

  • ChowT

    A Leopard cant change its spot, right! Mitt is just being Mitt. Presidential candidate or not.

  • ChowT

    Nothing wrong with getting rich.
    But the rich are screwing and cheating the middle class.

    Look at what the bankers are doing!

    • Problem is that the rich think the only way to get rich is on the backs of everyone else. It has become an attitude of “I got mine, screw you”

    • montanabill

      Gee, when you get rich, I guess you’ll then be screwing and cheating the middle class. As Spock would say, “most illogical”.

  • James

    they have not prevented it but embraced it becoming Destructive Predatory Capitalist !
    Now they want to bet against anyone who tries to rebuild and recover from the damage they have done.
    It is like they are stealing bandages from the Doctor so he can’t cover wounds and they get infected then selling bad antibiotics that make the infections worse .

  • montanabill

    Only those who despise capitalism or who are totally ignorant of how it works could find fault with Romney’s time at Bain Capital. A successful man who ran a successful business. Sure some companies didn’t make it, but at least they were given a chance. Without that chance, some companies would not have been able to resurrect themselves and the ones that failed would have failed sooner. Is Bain in business to make money? You bet it is, just like every other company in the U.S. Would they rather have their intercession be successful rather than have to dismantle what remains of a business that was not viable? Yes to that question too! But sometimes the ability to see the handwriting on the wall and to not chase after an emotional outcome is necessary. It is something you have to do to be successful.

    • rmarqua2921

      I think it is time people like you need to take Romney and go find yourself a country that steps on all kinds of people…take your phony capitalism somewhere else! I don’t happen to believe your views are the same capitalism this country was built on. You forget that Romney and Bain increased the debt dramatically in many of these companies, sucked out incredible amounts of money and then bankrupted those companies! Even if the company went under they got their pockets filled, but what about all the workers and the communities that had to suffer all the loss, while Romney and his buddies at Bain, were putting car elevators in all their beach houses. What risk did they take? Tell all your fairy tales to the workers and communities who are still struggling to keep their heads above the water! And this is the kind of person we want for President of our great country? Is this the American dream? Talking about success, where is the success for those workers and and their communities. I guess bankruptcy is the writing on the wall for the US government if Romney is elected! Government IS NOT A BUSINESS!

    • ObozoMustGo

      Hey montana! Topics like these bring out the worst of the class warriers and useful idiots, dont they? I’m on the fence about whether or not it’s ignorance or just sheer stupidity that demonstrates the abject failure that has become our educational system…. a system taken over by the socialists and 60’s radicals over the years.

      You are one of the few liferafts of truth with me in this sea of leftist nutjob insanity.

      Have a great day!

      • ChowT

        Only if we agree with you! Then we are the truth! Sounds same as communism! Ha Ha Ha

      • Have a nice day !

    • Yeah, they always made their millions and helped the companies go bankrupt! They were really good at that.

      • montanabill

        I submit that you really wouldn’t know.

  • I have worked for fly by night companys like Bain most of my life, The only one`s that gained from their adventures were themselves leaving us the people that did all the work standing out in the cold ,often times as not trying to cash a paycheck that was worthless, Yeah Romney`s policy`s will be so good for our country!

    • ChowT

      Romney is the front man for wall street. He will take care of the interest for his own kind only.

  • William Deutschlander

    In TRUTH, Bain Capital, other so called Capital Funds (excluding venture capital funds) and Hedge Funds, have the most in COMMON wth the SOMALI PIRATES, both business models are built on the same platform.

    • ChowT

      Thats exactly the problem we are facing now.

      Make money in the name of free market at all cost.

      Rate the bonds AAA. Sell them and short them at the same time

  • ObozoMustGo

    Newark Mayor and amateur superhero Cory Booker was a Democratic breath of fresh air on Meet the Press, calling the effort to paint Mitt Romney as a vampire capitalist “crap.”

    More Booker: “This kind of stuff is nauseating to me. . . it’s nauseating to voters,” said Booker. “I’m not about to sit here and indict private equity. . . we’re getting to a ridiculous point here in America. . .” Bain has “done a lot to support businesses, grown businesses, and this to me I’m very uncomfortable with.”

    Booker went on to note that he cut public jobs by 25 percent in Newark, “because it’s the only way my government would survive.” “Call me a job cutter if you want,” said Booker.

    Republican pollster Mike Murphy agreed. After pointing out that Romney was running the Olympics while his Bain successor, an Obama super donor, pulled the plug on the now infamous rust-belt steel firm: “I’m not about to be the church lady on negative ads, I’ve made a lot of them . . . but there’s a level of cynicism here that I think is hitting overflow.”

    Have a nice day!

    • Two_Six

      Speak for yourself.

      An objective voter.

      • ObozoMustGo

        2… it’s highly unusual that such common sense and objective assessment would come from a DemocRAT. He’s 100% correct.

        Have a nice day!

  • dardyl

    Capitalism has been a part of America forever. To live the “American Dream” is to take nothing and make something and along the way create jobs and become wealthy. Who of us haven’t dreamed of this? Those who did this are wealthy and I say Yeah! for them. If you had done this and was part of the 1%, who is to say whether or not you would be giving away part of your wealth. Figure if we took ALL of the wealth from the rich, how much would that give the government? It is a drop in the bucket to what America needs to become solvent. Businesses do what they need to, to be successful. If they didn’t, they would go bankrupt. I don’t think anyone would expect someone to not do the best for his company. We need to tell the government to quit taxing and taking from us, and butt out of trying to regulate everything. Everyone should take what they have and be happy with it, it is theirs and they earned it. No one else should get any of it. Obama started this negative attitude toward anyone making money or too much money and redistributing wealth. Why should I go to work and try and strive and make sacrifices to make a successful business when someone is going to take it away from me for social programs that help those who don’t work at all? Let businesses thrive and be successful. Romney did just that and he became wealthy. Why say shame on him? Why condemn initative?

  • I worked at company that was taken over by TPG another company like Bain, they don’t care about anybody. This is not the style that will build our country, these companies take pensions, destroy jobs and strip the company bare. Then when the company rebounds the jobs are overseas, they are not here. How is this plan going to help our country???? How are we going to get Americans back to work, if we keep moving the jobs overseas and then bring the people overseas here to work under the H2B worker program? This is just not logical, only the CEO’s and their cronies will get ahead not America!! That makes them un-American!!!!!

    • ObozoMustGo

      Deb… this may come a surprise to you and all of the leftist nutjobs out there, but the point of a company is NOT to provide you or anyone else a job. The point of a company is to MAKE MONEY!!! PROFITS!!!! If along the way, you have a skill that helps them do that, you might have a job. But no one owes you, or anyone else, a job.

      Think of it this way. You’re walking down the street. An urban outdoorsman (that’s “homeless” to most normal people) comes up to you and demands his job and your money. Exactly why do you owe him a job or your money? YOU DONT! So why does any company OWE you a job or their money? THEY DONT!

      And since you know what is and what is not logical for investors or companies to do, why arent you in charge of an investment bank or a company? Just askin……..

      Have a nice day!

      • ChowT

        That will give you the right to practice predatory capitalism! Like what Goldman did

        Peddle AAA rated bonds and short them immediately you sell them.

        • ObozoMustGo

          Chow… each time you write something, you prove to the rest of the world what an absolute idiot you are. My guess is that you are either young and fresh out of the Leftist Seminary (called college to the rest of us) or you are older and are completely uneducated. In either case, there is no difference, regretably.

          Surprise, Chow, but no one owes you a job or anything else except your right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They certainly don’t owe you their money or time.

          Now, go back to your bong. It’s lonely.

          Have a nice day!

      • This is Not the arguement about his jobs record at Bain argument that Romney is running with. Still hard to believe he made it fair game by bragging about creating 100,000 jobs. Have done some fact checking and his claim fails the sniff test. He does not count the jobs in Companies he shut down, does count any jobs created after Bain left, and does not talk about how most of the jobs created were low paying or minimum wage. Neither does he talk about nor is he concerned with the lives ruined while he got rich or how Fed had to bail out pensions while Bain made millions and companies went under. Word vulture and capitalist best describes this man! Just what we do not need for Prez.

        • ObozoMustGo

          Ron… no offense, but you cant be so stupid as to think that Romney’s experience in investment banking is somehow dishonorable when your very messiah, Obozo, is deeply connected and takes millions from private equity people like the Managing Director of Bain DURING THE TIME WHEN THEY SHUT DOWN THE STEEL PLANT they currently blame Romney for. I think his last name is Levine. You also don’t seem to mind Obozo’s connections and fundraisers from the heads of Blackstone Group, one of the largest PE companies in the world with $88BILLION under management.

          My point is that this whole “Romney as a greedy capitalist” bullsheet is, just like all of Obozo’s class warfare attempts, it’s nothing more than a strawman argument that he himself is possibly even more guilty of, if you want to make an argument over this. OBOZO IS A FLAT OUT HYPOCRITE!!!!!

          The only idiots that buy this crap are the useful idiots of the far left. The sad part is that Obozo can make these stupid claims about Romney and the vast majority of the media goes on the offense against Romney. However, when the same light of truth is shined on Obozo, the only thing you hear out of the mainstream media is crickets… crickets….. crickets……

          Have a nice day!

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            Putting ALL their public records on the table…..on balance?……..it tips way over to Obama for four more years…..and you know in your heart that this is true……….

            Wishing you an enlightening and sun shinning day!!

      • Have a nice day !

        • ObozoMustGo

          Thank you Bunny! You have a wonderful day today, as well!

  • bf

    I have read a lot of articles which are anti-Romney and some which are anti-Obama but the reality is, neither one seems to really be addressing the issue surrounding American jobs and salaries where off-shoring is concerned. Some off-shoring perhaps is okat but when companies lay off their employees expecting them to get picked up by consulting companies so they can seriously reduced their salaries is just wrong! It is greed which is killing our economy! I like Obama but he failed on his promise to bring back American jobs. This election neiter candidate is even discussing it. There is one country that I am aware of which has so much knowledge on American businesses and has a reat foot hold within them, if they decide to attack America we are done for! If my personal information is stored in a foreign country, I would like to be able to chose which country. Right now, my personal information is in a country which I don’t have a lof of confidence in. Also, I see how they work and it isn’t good! So as far as I am concerned, unless someone lights a fire under these candidates, we will not have an America in 2016. Our country is very close to being destroyed!

  • joujou228

    Bain (capalism) is not the issue. It is whether or not we want someone whose job resume is that of Governor Romney can go around and tout that he knows how to fix the economy. For myself it’s a big No. If it were about wealth creation, then Romney would be the man for the job. If his job were to create jobs instead of wealth for him and his friends, he failed!He made millions for himself and his investors. If he talks about staples, sports authority and Dominos ect. then he should also talk about the companies he destroyed as well. Notice how he switched to the debt, since his resume about job creation came under scrutiny. I guess he figure , we are the un-informed or the mis-informed, since he stand in front of clock to remind us of the debt at his “rallies”. He should have the costs of the two wars, the tax cut for the rich, and the prescription drug plan that were not paid for. FULL DISCLOSURE PLEASE GOV. ROMNEY! My money is on the american people. They will see through this farce and re-elect President Obama in 2012.

    • ObozoMustGo

      jou…. like it or not, the fact is, if you are honest and objective, that Romney’s resume to become President is FAR FAR FAR better than Obozo’s was prior to his election. Dude, the guy was a no show in IL Senate and a no show in US Senate. Prior, he was an Acorn community organizer and has never had a real job in his life. Ever!

      The point is, regardless of what side you are on, if you are honest and objective, what I am saying is correct.

      Have a nice day!

      • ChowT

        You are the only guy who is objective , only if everyone agrees with you.

        Romney does!

        Look at how he manage Bain! And screw the workers!

      • ChowT

        OMG, looks like you are the only honest and objective person in this forum!

        And the rest are dumbo!

        • ObozoMustGo

          Not entirely, Chow. All I’m saying is that, regardless of what side you are on, you simply cannot compare the 2 resume’s prior to a run for president and conclude that Obozo was more qualifiied than Romney. You just cannot do it without knowing you are lying to yourself and others.

          You can say that Obozo was woefully unqualified, but you like him anyway. That’s being honest.

          Just be honest about things. That’s all.

          Have a nice day!

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            and now…..it is about 2012!!!!!!!!, we cannot relive the past……look at the choice in “08” (mccain/palin, really!?! was that really a choice????)

            2012, experience v.s. poor governing experience, and dubious domestic policy and foreign policy…….and face it running Bain, or any business has nothing to do with running a country……..you can’t fire governors and close down a States for not performing…….and don’t forget congress with it’s filibuster in the Senate, he can’t fire them either…

            so….2012….experience to (continue) be president v.s. ?????????

      • viewfromtheleftcoast

        so, we are now discussing the 2012 election….three and a half years after the 2008 election (with the option of McCain/Pallin)……..

        the incredible dumping of jobs has slowed…….several million new private sector jobs added…….(government jobs lost, as in decreasing the size of government)……the elimination of this countries worst enemy (Osama being gone is actually more symbolic, but an important one)…….the rest of the free world likes the US again……..the START Treaty, which makes the world safer…….. mostly wise choices made with stimulus money (considering that the economy was worse than had been originally estimated)……..saving the auto industry, and the hundreds of thousands of related jobs…….

        so, I guess in 2012 Obama looks to be the better choice of the two for president…… (that would be, “experience wise” to be commander in chief)

        • ObozoMustGo

          view…. as a useful idiot and leftist nutjob, I dont expect you to see anything that Obozo does as a failure. But objectively speaking, comparing the resumes prior to their run for President, Romney’s resume is 1000% better than Obozo’s who never had any meaningful responsibilities or position ever in his entire miserable existence. That was the point….. pre-run for presidency.

          Have a nice day!

          PS> Explain exactly how the START treaty makes the world “safer”, please.

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            OMG, back to using slurs and insults…..you Bozo, are living in the past…..

            The more important issue is who is more qualified to be president for the NEXT four years…….that is an argument your side can’t win this time around….

            BTW, Romney was not the choice of your party in 2008, it was McCain & Palin……talk about poor choices & it lost your party the election…….

            So you think that reducing arms is a bad idea?……You think having more arms would make us safer?……more arms only makes the makers of such arms wealthier…….not us safer…

          • ObozoMustGo

            view… Obozo cant even handily defeat “undecided” or even a convicted felon in the primaries. he has no shot in November. Obozo = Jimmy Carter. 🙂

            Back to the START treaty… give me real answers how that makes us safer, not leftist cliche’s. Real answers please. Like what are the terms of the treaty? What things do we have to do, and what is required of the Russians? Please tell us. Thanks.

            Have a nice day!

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            We will just have to see what happens in November………My bet is with experience over etch-a sketch……..

            START requires set a number reductions in nuclear armaments, with timetables and inspections

          • ObozoMustGo

            What are the specifics behind a number reduction in nuclear armaments? Does this also include a reduction or removal of missile defense systems? Thanks for your answers, view. I’m interested in learning.

            Have a nice day!

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            Don’t know the “specifics”……..however, don’t you think anything less is batter(?), than the chest thumping your guy has been doing….along with the hawks in congress, who tried to hold up renewing the Treaty at all

            BTW, if you have specific numbers and the date of the next re-up please share……I’m not so sure the specifics are available…

          • ObozoMustGo

            Hmmmmmm… Didn’t think you’d have specifics. Just cliches and regurgitation of leftist nutjob talking points. Only a leftist idiot thinks that not having more weapons than your enemy is a good thing.

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            In we have MORE, not less weapons than anyone else…….START Treaty is for reduction on both sides…….but, side always want more and more…….keep the arms race going, it was good business for someone…..

            Eisenhower warned us, and Regan quickly dissed that idea……remember his idea of bombs in space, so USSR, “The Evil Empire” could be kept at bay……..and the USSR, what do you think they would do, nothing?….. They would race to have bombs in space…..oh, how safe we would feel if that had happened.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Hi view! I hope y0u are well today.

            Re: START Treaty…. the major problem with it is that even the preamble to the document links missile defense and offensive nuclear weapons. This is not true of previous versions. Not only is the language in this preamble stronger, and not only has the Russian leadership said that any increase in our missile defense system would be considered a breach of the treaty, but Article V of the treaty specifically limits our ability to convert ICBM and submarine-launched ballistic missile launchers into defensive interceptors.

            Now, I would be willing to bet my last dollar, view, that even you being the leftist nutjob that you are (and I mean that affectionately), if we agreed to reduce the number of nukes we have, it’s complete lunacy to prevent ourselves from defending ourselves agains nukes.

            Dont you agree that we should NEVER give away our rights to defense against nuclear missiles?

            If you do, as would be the sane thing for anyone to say, then you cannot agree that the START Treaty is a good thing, and you certainly cannot call Obozo’s giving away our right to defend ourselves against missiles an “accomplishment”.

            Have a nice day, view, and great Memorial Day weekend my lefty friend! 😉

          • viewfromtheleftcoast

            Hi OBozo:

            Consider reading something not the the Heritage Foundation……

            hhtp://csis.org/blog/nothing-fear-start-verification….

            then consider where we are located….then consider just how many bombs do we need to destroy another country’s population……consider bombs on rails as opposed to wheels and where we are located on planet earth……..same for all defensive and offensive delivery systems…..how many does it take to defend? 700 aren’t enough???????

          • ObozoMustGo

            Hi view! You did not address my point…. that is that even YOU would not want us to limit our ability to defend ourselves or our allies against missiles. Am I correct? Or do you prefer that we are not permitted to build technologies that can intercept missiles so that we dont make our enemies mad at us and that you can now think that the world likes America again?

            Which one is it, view?

            Have a great Memorial Day weekend!

    • ChowT

      Mitt Romney represents the super rich!

      • joujou228

        Agree!

  • Germansmith

    The rich are rich because they are smart,educated, hardworking, well positioned or their parents were. The poor are poor because of lack of opportunity, drive, education, smarts or a combination of those.
    What we need is a free society that allows and encourages the smart, hardworking people to rise above and suceed…..no matter where they came from. “Opportunity” is the key word.

    A temporary safety net is important, but the key word here is “temporary”. Currently in our country the rich are getting richer and avoiding taxation and the poor and unemployed at times are receiving so much help that there is little incentive to get out to work.

    Bain Capital was created to make money for their investors and they took full advantage of what the rules permitted them to do. Romney did nothing illegal while making his investors rich. I just hope, if he is to become President that he remembers that his employers (investors) are ALL the American people, no just the rich Republicans.

    • Who knows what etch a sketch will do? He makes typical pols with their wishy washiness and lies look like George Washington!

    • ChowT

      Germansmith, I do not thing being rich or working hard is bad. It is Good!.

      But selling AAA rated bonds to innocent people and pensioners is disgusting!

      What Goldman did to its clients ‘may’ not be illegal.

      But is this the way people make their money and get rich?

  • Hal

    It is not just the companies that Bain dissolved. For each of those now defunct companies and employees out of a job, there are hundreds of related companies that did business with them that were not paid because of bankruptcy of the Bain companies. That results in other companies going out of business and even more people losing jobs. I guess that the GOP and Bain would refer to that as collateral damage.

  • Well put. Now, if the voters can be convinced, President Obama should win by a 99 percent margin. Wouldn’t that send a message.

  • PingMan0843

    Government is the cause of most of our economic problems; the government’s attempt to control money and the economy has devalued the dollar dramatically; the housing bubble, too big to fail; corporate welfare; the government has grown so large and spent so much that this year for the first time in our history our national debt exceeded the gross national product (what the private economy produced). Big government has corrupted capitalism and is displacing the private sector — see Greece to get an idea of where we are headed. Our founding Fathers were afraid of just this kind of thing. They tried to prevent it with the Constitution — to protect individual freedom from the tyranny of the state. It was not enough, so now what do we do?

    • wayneonly

      PingMano, you are right that government is the cause of our economic problems because they have created the climate whereby “Too Big To Fail” banks could invest in risky ventures such as sub prime mortgages and big business can avoid taxes and ever get subsidies from taxpayer money. While it is important who we have in the White House, it is more important who we have in Congress.

      Three good books that every voter should read: Winner Take All Politics: How Washington Made The Rich Richer And Turned It’s Back On The Middle Class by Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson, Throw Them All Out by Peter Schweizer, and Greedy Bastards by Dylan Ratigan. They will open your eyes to the real corruption in Congress now and the last 20yrs. And we (the voter) are equally to blame because we have not been educated enough of vigilant enough about what has been going on.

      Congress (both Republican and Democrat alike) have set themselves up as the PERMANENT POLITICAL CLASS. They believe they are the “elite” class and are “entitled” to special privileges and are “above the law(s)” that govern the rest of us. They no longer represent the majority of American voters but instead serve the interests of their “big money” campaign contributors. What is good for America is not their concern, only what is good for their financial gain and the financial gain of their campaign contributors. Congress has no respect for the voter because we are so easily influenced by slick ads and empty promises paid for by “big money” interests. It is time that we (the voter) change their perspective of what is their duty in office.

      We (the voter) need to resolve that we will vote EVERY incumbent Congressperson out of office when they come up for reelection. As long as we keep sending the same Congresspeople to office we will have the same corrupt Congress the we have now. So it is time to get the broom out and “clean House” (and Senate). From the past and present actions of Congress it is clear that they have no regard for the American people but instead have their selfish interests, the interest of “big money” and the “party” interests at heart. We (the voter) need to send the message that it is no longer “business as usual” in Congress. WE NEED TO THROW THEM ALL OUT!!

      But is is not enough that we change bodies in Congress. We need to send each newly elected Congressperson to Washington with OUR agenda instead to the “empty campaign promises” that every candidate thinks they need to give in order to win election. And we need to be vigilant to watch their voting record AND their financial dealings while they are in office. Maybe we will even find a few who are worthy of another term. One can only hope.

      • ObozoMustGo

        wayne.. I think you and I have conversed on this same topic before. You are 100% correct right along with Ping.

        In another thread, I said that the Democrats need a similar movement to the Tea Party to begin tearing their apratus apart just like the Tea Party is doing to the Republicans. Agree with them or not, they ARE doing what needs to be done, and long time incumbents are being thrown out on their butts.

        And the ‘Occupy’ movement is NOT the movement for the Dems because they are anarchists and communists and are violent. If the Dems were smart, they would shun that movement, but it won’t happen because that movement is 100% a part of Obozo’s election year strategy to divide Americans and make us hate “rich people”. Obozo cant run on his record so he has to run on issues that divide us like race, gender, and class.

        I can’t recall if you were in that discussion or not. Sorry if you were.

        Keep the good posts, wayne.

        Have a nice day!

    • ObozoMustGo

      Ping… welcome to this sea of leftist insanity called The Memo. You’ll find that most people around here won’t like posts that reflect common sense or an understanding of the true nature of our problems in America. Most are fully committed to the concept that the solution to the problems created by government is MORE government. I’ve even had long discussions with a couple of them that finally admitted in the open to NOT liking the Constitution. It’s very hard to see how we unwind outselves out of this mess without a tremendous amouth of strife.

      Keep fighting the good fight.

      Have a nice day!

  • dardyl

    PingMano843 and Germansmith, I like both of your posts. They were both valid and well said.

  • Naomi DesMoines

    Hey, Mitt could add a new twist to the new capitalism. Why stop at outsourcing American jobs to countries with cheap labor? Why not also outsource America’s poor and jobless to provide the cheap labor? He can eliminate poverty and unemployment in one fell swoop — and the rich will still get richer!

  • quasm

    Mr. Dionne;

    Capitalism is what occurs in a nation that embraces freedom. The opposite is a coercive government. The evidence is overwhelming that the more freedom exercised by individuals, the more prosperity for all. Even the socialist states are merely eating up the wealth produced by earlier generations and slowly sinking into poverty.

    Dik Thurston

    Colorado Springs

    • ObozoMustGo

      quasm… such common sense and basic understanding of the truth is certainly NOT going to be welcomed around this sea of leftist inanity, that’s for sure.

      If you have not yet noticed, The Memo is nothing more than a coordinated component of the Obozo reelection campaign propaganda machine and EJ Dionne is just a tool and useful idiot in their overall agenda.

      This story being played here now at precisely the time that the Obozo campaign is going on the public attack against Romney in an effort to take away his business credibility is all you need to know. THEY ARE COORDINATED! And if you think that the NY Slimes and Washington Compost are also not involved with Obozo, you are a fool.

      Thanks for jumping into the ring. Keep fighting the good fight. I try to be a life raft of truth in this sea of leftist insanity. We need more!

      Have a nice day!

      • metrognome3830

        Good Morning OMG! As soon as I saw quasm’s post, I just knew you would be jumping into the fray. Well, now I can go have another cup of coffee secure in the knowledge that quasm will be well cared for.

        Have a nice day.

        • ObozoMustGo

          Hi metro! I hope you are well. 🙂 How was your weekend? Mine was fairly relaxing for once.

          And yes, quasm jumped in and I had to help him before the lefty sharks started a blood-in-the-water pursuit of him without cover. hehehehe

          Have a nice day, metro! 🙂

          • ChowT

            Why hide behind somebody!

          • They might not be having a Nice Day ! Both need to go back to bed and then Have a nice day! We will all Have a nice day ! ! !

          • metrognome3830

            Hello OMG. My weekend was just fine, thank you. The little wife and I joined a group of friends for dinner, had a couple glasses of wine. Yes, pretty good I would say. Of course, when one is retired, every day seems like a weekend. 🙂

            Have a nice day, OMG!

          • ObozoMustGo

            God has blessed you well, my friend! I’d say have a nice day, but then I’d only be stating the obvious. 🙂

        • ObozoMustGo

          metro… How are you today? I hope you are well my friend. I haven’t heard from you in a few days and I just went back to an old thread not followed anymore to say hello and that I was thinking of you. Give my regards to your bride!

          Have a great day!

      • ChowT

        Hi Romney supporter. Now I know where you are coming from. Ha Ha!

        Romney got no brains!

      • viewfromtheleftcoast

        GAG!!!!!!

    • In the world of reasoning, this is called a false dilemma. It’s a tool to keep a small mind in check.

    • ChowT

      Yes. Total freedom to all predatory capitalist. The right to sell AAA rated bonds and shove it to the pensioners and innocent ones. Then short it down.
      Making money both ways.

      And pay no tax!

      Right.

      Mitt Romney represents the above.

    • viewfromtheleftcoast

      so, explain to me why the practiced form of capitalism by the robber baron, before anti-trust legislation, that led to the depression and just a poor class and a rich class……when flipped under both democratic and republican administration, we had such a tremendous growth of the middle class…….again relax the banking regulations, and the rich get uber rich and the poorest get pooer and the middle class (the engine of any economy) disappears, while our new capitalists send our jobs out to cheap labor countries, so they may get richer (translate that to power)……what does this bring to the future of our country????

  • stsintl

    When government controls the capitalists, we have SOCIALISM. When capitalists control the government, we have CORPORATISM. Neither one creates a strong middle class. Classic CAPITALISM of Henry Ford was responsible for creating a strong middle class during the early part of the last century, which was envy of the world.

    Capitalism is masculine and strong. Democracy is feminine and delicate. Free press is the window to Democracy’s bedroom. When Capitalism pulls down the shades over the bedroom windows, places five judges of the Supreme Court to guard the door, and rapes Democracy, nation ends up with an illegitimate government [the US Congress].

    • One of the MAJOR problems with this debate is that no one has stepped in and tried to explain to the public these definitions. As usual the left has been weak and the news media has been pandering which has allowed the bozos like Bainsters to redefine YET ANOTHER word and say what they are promoting capitalism. Baloney. They want the free market when it suits them and regulations when the free market makes them the losers. That’s *not* capitalism.

      • ObozoMustGo

        Dave, you are partially on your way to really understanding this. Fact is, BOTH parties for nearly 100 years (with minor exceptions) have been slowly but surely manipulating businesses and people through a tax code that permits the politicians to pass out favors to some and punish others. This has been in conjunction with a regulatory bureaucracy that is even more powerful than the tax code because most of what it does are at it’s own discretion. So when you combine the tax code with the regulatory arm and the fact that big business has been “paying off” politicians for decades in order to stay away from what they fear most, competition, a culture of cronyism develops. The cost of compliance with the tax and regulatory bureaucracies only serves primarily as a detractor from competition. The government is supposed to be the referee in the game, not a participant!

        Truth is, what quasm has written below is 100% correct. The best path to prosperity is maximum freedom for individuals, and a government that is not also a participant in the markets with favorites based upon who’s in political power at any given time.

        Have a nice day!

    • viewfromtheleftcoast

      well said……now if it could only be beamed to every citizen registered to vote, whether they plan on voting or not…..

      • stsintl

        Thanks for the comment. How do we get this message out to those whose IQs are no higher than Sarah Palin’s?
        Stsintl.

      • stsintl

        Thanks for the comment. How do we get this message out to those whose IQs are no higher than Sarah Palin’s?
        Stsintl.

  • snowball1

    Bain Capital helped the LDS invest in many coampanies/nationally & internationally.
    The LDS owns 9last count 64) companies like Beneficial Life Insurance CO., the largest cattle ranch in the US, truck lines, supermarkets, processing plants, , for profitt hunting lodges in Utah&Nebraska,Oregon hundreds of thousands of acres of landFlorida, Oregon, , Hawaii etc. They are building shopping malls; hotels etc. They profit from all of these tax exempt/church owned business; yet lay off janitors who cleaned their temples to save money. Some of the places they owned are according tot eh LDs staffed by “happy volunteers; while they make millions. Somebody needs to check into this to see what extent Bain played in the acquisition of these non taxed “investments”. The LDS has owned many of these companie since the 80’s. They don’t publish tithing info for LDS members, but their must be records on this stuff. The LDS is very clever at claiming they are attacked for their “religion”, but this isa bit odd.
    Britain is the only country which does not tax the LDS.

    The media is asking Romney the wrong questions.

    Reed Smoot Case transcript, Vol. 1, pp. 81, 82, 83, 86, 87, and 88)-Senate Committee Testimony Transcript:

    Mr. Tayler (Senate Attorney):What is your business?
    Mr. Smith (Mormon Prophet and President): My principle business is that of president of the church.
    Mr. Tayler: In what other business are you engaged?
    Mr. Smith: I am engaged in NUMEROUS other businesses.
    Mr. Tayler: What?
    Mr. Smith: I am PRESIDENT of Zion’s Cooperative Mercantile Institution.
    Mr. Tayler: Of what other corporations are you an officer?
    Mr. Smith: I am PRESIDENT of the State Bank of Utah, another institution.
    Mr. Tayler: What else?
    Mr. Smith: PRESIDENT of Zion’s Savings Bank and Trust Company.
    Mr. Tayler: What else?
    Mr. Smith: I am PRESIDENT of the Utah Sugar Company.
    Mr. Tayler: What else?

  • Ann

    Without a middle class, we will become a third world country. With the rich being the kings, and the poor being the slaves. That is not a democracy, it sounds like China to me??

  • Money changers. That’s all you need to think about.

  • Marv Johnson

    The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, gas prices and food prices as well as other prices do not affect the rich, only the poor. Republican type of capitalism is not the way to go, with a strong middle class the poor fair better, and we do need a balance between capitalism and socialism, they must both exist, I drive a gas burner that is bad for the ecology, I can’t afford a hybrid.

    • ObozoMustGo

      Marv… get a bike! You can afford one those, cant you? Put your money where your mouth is.

      Have a nice day!

      • I can almost see the rich boy sneer. You think you are a wit? Well you are half right!

        • viewfromtheleftcoast

          is that something like “half wit”?

  • Bain had no interest in adding jobs, or rewarding workers for their hard work and long service, it was only to make Romney and other managers and investors rich. Bain was not a Venture Capitalist firm , it was a corporate raider firm-big difference. It is a throwback to the Robber Barons of the 19th and early 20th century; it was only unions and the Governments anti-trust legislation that prevented the Robbers from taking over the country and making the rest of us slaves or indentured servants burdened with debt we can never pay off because of low wages. If the Republicans had their way, only the top 1% could vote (only if they were white and male) , make all the decisions in the country, and keep the 99% as slaves or in servitude.In fact, that is what “Republic” implies, as opposed to “Democracy”. Plato’s “The Republic” and many our founding fathers also thought that way-voters limited to white, male, landowners, keeps the riffraff out of the voting booth. That is what the Tea Party really admires-rich white old males rule.If we are to save our country, vote Romney (or Robme) and his plutocrat Republican friends out of power.

    • viewfromtheleftcoast

      and….from what I’ve seen of Tea Party Rallies…….they are not rich, but they are all white….so I still don’t get their thinking…..

      The Boston Tea Party was mostly about taxation without representation…….do they really think they’re being represented by the people they support?….because the Repubs. want to cut taxes?…..and cut Medicare and Social Security benefits?….(oh, but no, when asked, they do not want that to happen, but they do want to cut taxes)….Do they really want a poorly educated populace to lead us into the future? The future is the last thing any of them are thinking about…..

      truly, truly sad

  • I think this assessment is far off. The generation in charge is “me” generation and a vast majority of them don’t think twice for screwing over someone else for buck. ‘Cause everyone knows, “it’s just business.”

  • jijones

    any one knows that you cater to your friends, and if your friends are rich who you think you are going to cater too ? you dont have to be smart to know this just a little bit of common sense [huh]

  • Obama- started out helping the less fortunate by being a low-paid community organizer, even with a Harvard J.D., Bain- his objective was get as much personal wealth as possible at the expense of employees. Who do you think will look out for the interests of the 99%?

  • adriancrutch

    We have just witnessed the BIGGIST RIPOFF OF ALL TIME! THE BAILOUT! With no FEAR Wall ST. gambled and lost with no conscience.The poor of the nation saves the Top PIGS. Which will bring more EVIL unless GLASS-STENGAL ACT IS RETURNED! I BLAME BILL CLINTON FOR THIS MONUMENTAL MISTAKE! THE GREEDY CANNOT HELP THEMSELVES!

  • jijones

    america the ball is in your court and the decision you make will last for a long long time, your party mean very little, if you are a slave for the rich! romney have told you what he plans to do, is too destroy
    all that your forefathers have worked for and took abuse from those that have! he have said he is not worried about the poor, they have a safety net,yet in the same breath he is going after that safety net and all of the social program including social security, medicaid, and medicare, union’s anything thats good for the poor! but wont touch the taxes for the rich! america he have laid out his plan for you, and if you such a fool you vote for him you deserve everything you get!!!

  • ChowT

    The brownies are AAA rated bonds sold by wall street. Yes they are Toxic. Are you one of the salesman peddling them?

    Good for you.

  • ChowT

    Can you read English? If you cant please get someone to translate to you.
    Please done behave like Mitt Romney, shooting from the hip.

  • howa4x

    He took companies and loaded them with debt, broke them up and sold off the peices. That is the nature of destructive capitalism where those at the top make huge gains and the bottom is seen as pawns in their game. Romney took his wealth and instead of investing in the middle class, by creatiing jobs, hid it in off shore accounts. This alone should disqualify him from being president of all the people instead of just some at the top. His main backers are other billionairs who want to preserve their gains and not pay a penny more in taxes even though they can affort to pay a lot. Greed and envy is the motto of the Republican party who has distain for anyone not rich. They like Romney think benefits(crumbs) should be denied to people in the middle so all the wealth could flow upward. These people know nothing of morality,and nothing of the teachings of the one they call the son of god. They worship at the golden calf, and think that true salvation really means the accumulation of more wealth, than they could ever spend. This election is between the middle and the top and whose values will triumph.

    • ChowT

      Romney cant be trusted! He represents only the interest for the super rich predatory capitalist.

  • patuxant

    I don’t know about anyone else out here but this picture of him in this article is just so phoney. What? Is he laughing because he thinks whatever he says is cool or knowledgeable or just a undercover disguise to get what he wants….Ann and his family in the White House because it is “their turn”? Excuse me! He shipped US jobs to China and now he is dissing that country among others? Reckless Irresponsible Jibberish is coming from that false smile of what??? I will be “King” of the USA along with the ilk of those like Trump and other greedy jackasses. Plus, let’s figure out how his Mormonism plays into all of this.Beware people….we are dealing with a real snake.

    • ChowT

      Mitt Romney is the poster boy for wall street.

  • KEEPING IT THOUGTHFULLY HONEST: the inconvenient truth is: Well, Mr. “pandering positions flip flop” Romney has been caught in another of his etch sketch moments which started quite early in his professional career! Let’s examine the question objectively; is Mr. Romney a Job Creator based upon the factual record? During tenure as Governor of Massachusetts, the record shows that the State was 47th in Job creating nationally! Bain Capital & “Company’s mission is to help our clients create such high levels of economic value that together we set new standards of excellence in our respective industries.” So the record for him was to lead investors to leverage buyouts of a company, then make a business grow to increase its value and sell it off for a large profit! This was done by some employees being laid-off, others took pay cuts in salary and benefits but ALL took significant losses in their personal retirement portfolios. Often, the companies went bankrupt and the taxpayers had to make pay-off for worker losses, while Romney and his 1% investors made their millions in profits! So let’s be clear, Mr. Romney was a successful in “management consulting business, and will provide new levels of rewards for our clients and for our organization.” Based on this focus Romney was not and never was Job Creation! What he has accomplished is not in question. However, his integrity is question and the American people have a right to question him since he has decided to run for President of United States. He now becomes fair game, and the gloves are off for the public media. This guy continues to embarrassment himself by his lack of transparency regarding his past! So Mayor Cory Booker, you blew it big time on Meet the Press! Just Dumb!

    • ChowT

      There is nothing wrong in getting rich. But to have predatory capitalism is wrong.
      Goldman sach sold their AAA bonds to their clients and short it at the same time.

      That is wrong, even though legally it ‘may’ not be.

  • patuxant

    Yes, and if you have difficulties and have been dealt a bad hand…God forbid you are on your own….Sorry…this is the one thing that I couldn’t accept with the Ayn Rand crowd…that it is a matter of survival of the fittest…we are not animals and we should care about our fellow man/woman. The kind of capitalism she envisioned and AJGalambos lectured about is an ideal vision and it will never work in that kind of vaccuum.

    • ChowT

      Animals only take what they need for the day. It is only the humans who suck everything far in excess for any king of opulent life.

      Animals know how to live in harmony with the ecosystem. Greedy humans dont.

  • ChowT

    You meant you will ?

  • patuxant

    You sound half way knowledgeable but when you call yourself “OMG” you liken yourself to a useless rambling fool. Please stop with your pontificating bs. See you on here daily and I just wonder what it is you do for a living? Living off the fat of the land? Me? Am a 70 yr old woman who worked as an educator and attorney and writer and etc etc…Never once in my life did I think my life and freedom would come to a bunch of fools like Romney and those of his ilk trying to ruin this country. Think about it..the guy sends jobs to China and then squirts backward on them…what a pissant and his wife’s comment about their “turn” in the White House! Lots of people out there and I will include you, are so angry because this President is a Black man in charge of the White House. Admit it if you have the guts.

  • patuxant

    Yes…agree.. the uber rich who can afford to put an elevator for their cars to be lifted while they (Lovely Ann whose “turn” it is to be in the White House), overlook the drama of a sunset on the Pacific Coast in LaJolla! Give me a break!!

  • patuxant

    Yes, Ann. A place where Romney shipped US jobs to….

  • 90% of all the jobs Romney claims to have “created” occurred with Staples. While it is true that Staples ended up employing 89 thousand employees after being restructred by Bain – it is foolish to count those 89,000 employees under the heading “created” jobs.

    Did the amount of office supplies, and electronic goods being purchased in the USA increase because of Staples? Wouldn’t everything they sell have been purchased from some other existing business? Of course.

    Jobs are created when some new product is invented – manufactured – and sold.Replacing 3000 mom and pop local main street office supply stores with local big box retailers does NOT create any jobs – it kills them. Ask the small business retailers that were driven out of business and had to lay off their employees. There is not a shred of proof that Staples actually added a single job to the US workforce. The truth is that because they operate more efficiently than a small local store, they almost certainly killed more jobs than they created.

    • ObozoMustGo

      You are right on Schneid…. Just like Obozo said. Those efficiently operating businesses KILL jobs like ATM’s kill teller jobs at the bank right?

      Yeah….OK… Sure, sure. Keep telling yourself that you moron! What an idiot. You should go back and revise that statement, dude. It’s a really tall order, but you may have won the “Moron of The Day” Award on The Memo with this post. In this sea of leftist nutjob insanity, you have to try hard, real hard, to win that award. I think you’ve done it, though. Congratulations!!! Nice work, Schneid!!

      Have a nice day!

  • patuxant

    you are a fool and an idiot

    • He needs to be told to have a nice day !

      • ChowT

        These 2 guys keep shoving their views rudely to people.
        There is no point talking to them.

        There is no upbringing in them.
        I believe they vent their personal frustration on people who dont agree with them.

        Pity their wife or Gf if they have any.

        Probably they need a nice Day!

        Ha Ha ha.

  • Mitt doesn’t have a chance! He’s in the crazy club — a bunch of clowns whose whole purpose in politics (and in life too, it appears) is to defeat Obama. They aren’t telling us any good reason for this! Only making a lot of noise, trying to blank out the screen so nobody can see anything. If Mit were smart, at all, he’ diverse himself from the likes of Boehner & Rush Limbo & McConnell, & the rest of that crowd. But then he could never do anything like that, because he himself is ONE of them, as bad as the worst. So by by Mit! It has NOT been good to no U!

    Allsn C. Boschen.

    • ChowT

      Mitt is being Mitt. He only represents the super rich and conmen like Goldman Sachs.
      Selling AAA rated bonds and shorting them at the same time. And justifying by saying it is legal!

  • ObozoMustGo

    TRUTH SQUAD ON OBOZO’S LATEST ADVERT AGAINST ROMNEY

    The ad running in PA, OH, and a couple other states where the older guy, leaning against the chain link fence, says that Romney closed their steele factory in OH is a bold faced lie.

    TRUTH #1 –> Romney hadn’t been at Bain for 2 years BEFORE the plant closed.

    TRUTH #2–> The Wall Street Journal studied EVERY single investment Bain Capital made and found that 22% of them went belly up, 78% of the investments worked out and the companies kept running. THAT’S A DAMNED GOOD SUCCESS RATE!

    TRUTH #3–> Remember, Obozo owns 28% of GM (Government Motors) who employs close to 400,000 employees, 2/3 of which ARE OVERSEAS!!!!! GM has been creating jobs overseas with your taxpayer bailouts, you dummies.

    TRUTH #4–> General Electric CEO, Jeffery Imelt, is the leader of Obozo’s jobs committee and is a huge supporter of Obozo. GE took BILLIONS in bailout money. GE also employs 54% of it’s workers OVERSEAS and that number is growing. GE has been creating jobs overseas with your taxpayer bailouts, you dummies.

    Don’t hate on me. I’m just the messenger, and a liferaft of truth in a leftist nutjob sea of insanity.

    Have a nice day!

    • ChowT

      Good for you. You are the only one with the truth and real facts.

      Makes all of us liars and dumb people.

    • dtgraham

      TRUTH #2–> That’s not at all what the Wall St Journal reported. 70% worked out (for Bain) in the short run, albeit with permanent layoffs, reduced pay and other benefits. 22% didn’t (while Bain was actively involved). A further 8% lost all of the money Bain put in. Furthermore, Bain made 70% of their profits, under Romney, on just 10 deals. Of those 10 deals, four of the companies went bankrupt after Bain exited and that’s the kicker right there. Similar to the Ohio steel factory, so many of those “success” stories went broke after Bain left because they were so loaded down with debt that they couldn’t handle it any more. They don’t count in Bain’s success stories. Bain used their balance sheet to leverage them immediately after acquisition, in order to produce an instantaneous, and acceptable, ROI regardless of what happened to the firm down the road. These equity firms are about creating profits, period……..not jobs. Jobs are just a possible outcome, not that Bain really cared.

      By the way, you are aware that GM and Chrysler are paying back those loans and some of that foreign profit does come back to the U.S.

  • SaneJane

    His methods at Bain were to get control of a company, load it with debt, siphon off the pension fund and other benefits, then let it slide into bankruptcy. How does that compare with what he plans for the nation if he gets control? Get control, load with debt, raid Social Security and other benefits, then let it slide into bankruptcy. Looks like the same plan to me.

  • SaneJane

    Reminds me of that movie “Other People’s Money” with Danny DeVito. At least the vulture in the movie discovered he had a heart after all.

  • There are people like Montanabill that are defending Romney and Bain’s way of fixing a company’s economic problems , which most of the time wasn’t fixed and the companies went bankrupt with Romney and his Bain partners working away with all the companies money including the employees pension funds that the employees had paid into and leaving the company bankrupt and the employees without their pensions. Montanabill if you don’t believe that ask the people that used to work at a steel company in Kansas City, Missouri, I think it was called CTU not sure of the name, a company that was fairly heath until Romney and Bain took it over. Ask the employees of quite few individual fashion businesses there were healthy in a business way until Romney and Bain bought them and combined them into a business they called Stagecoach Stagecoach was also prospering until Romney and company borrowed so much against the company’s assets and then dumped their stock to be sold. When Bain and Romney did this it caused Stagecoach to go bellyup like the steel company and more than a few other companies that Bain and Romney “invested in”. Romney and Bain always walked away from these companies with millions of dollars in their pocket including the employees pension funds. No Romney and Bain was put in place to create jobs but to destroy them and make themselves billionaires at the cost of the companies they invested in, the people that worked there and the communties that the companies were located in. Romney and his Bain partners were a bunch people with only one goal in mind to make as much money as they good no matter what it took to it and no matter how many companies closed, how many people lost their jobs and no matter what it did to the communities the companies were located. In other word selfish, uncaring bunch of people that was barely legal in the way they did business.

    • ChowT

      I have never seen people who are more Greedier than these . Makes Shylock Blush!

  • ChowT

    You do not understand English! Dont be like Mitt Romney.

  • ChowT

    Btw you open your response by saying’If I could understand your response…’. The point is you Cant!

  • ChowT

    Barely legal is the word!

  • montanabill

    You have more real world experience than the current one.

  • We used to call companies like Bain Capital “Corporate Raiders.” They take on debt then pay themselves dividends to include capital from debt as well as corporate treasury. Bain appears to have also raided retirement funds before declaring bankruptcy to excuse debt.

  • Murphy831

    >”If Obama has anything to do with it, it is because he is having an impact on a company’s performance with policy or is a generator of feelings.””So which is better: no jobs or low paying jobs? People have a choice””In fact, they have the choice to put themselves in a position for a high paying job if they want to put forth the effort.””FYI, the benefit of living in the U.S. now is that it is still a place where you can control your own destiny.””Don’t blame the ‘rich industrialist’. He is not in business to create jobs. No one is in business to create jobs.”<

    Thanks for admitting that. It's what I've been saying all along. Look back at my first post. The concept of the Industrialist as a "job creator" is bogus. Yet the Republicans use it anyway. They of course are lying about it. Mitt Romney is NOT a job creator. That was NEVER his intention at Bain. So for him to run on that idea is simply a flat out lie as you have just pointed out.

    • ObozoMustGo

      Murphy… I’ve been reading your posts and back and forth with montanabill. They are enjoyable. I have concluded that, while you hide behind a well rehearsed act as a staunch Keynesian, you are actually no better than a typical leftist nujob. This last post confirms my conclusion as your reliance on your beliefs in the Holy Trinity of the left (Race, Gender, Class), have all shown their ugly heads.

      What’s it like to live life seeing everything through the lenses of victimization? It’s got to be pretty damned miserable.

      By the way, when montana says “no one is in business to create jobs”, you know damned well that employment of more people is a necessary result of a successful and growing business. So while the main objective of a business is to make products or services that generate revenues and profits, it is disingenuous of you to suggest that this is somehow wrong.

      And don’t be getting in any argument about Mitt Romney and the companies he bought or sold UNTIL you also blast your messiah, Obozo, for being a completely failed venture capitalist with OUR TAX DOLLARS in lousy and loser companies like Solyndra, Solar Trust, and all the other losers he burned our money on to pay off his rich fat cat finance buddies that invested in those schemes, and who are big donors to his campaign efforts. Talk about hypocrisy? Sheeeeeesshhhhhh!!!

      Regardless of what you want to say about Private Equity, keep your trap shut until you explain why Obozo is up to his chin in private equity guys in his campaign (Pena) and his bundlers (Jon Levine from Bain Capital of all places, and multiple buddies from Blackstone). Guess all those private equity guys are good guys, right?

      All things considered, and looking at it objectively, Mitt Romney has been WAAAAAYYYY more of a “job creator” by being a successful business man than Obozo who has NEVER had a real job in his life, let alone even run a lemonaide stand, for Pete’s sake.

      Obozo is an amature and will justifiably be trounced this November. You heard it here first.

      Have a nice day and a great Memorial Day weekend!

      • Murphy831

        >”I have concluded that, while you hide behind a well rehearsed act as a staunch Keynesian, you are actually no better than a typical leftist nujob.””This last post confirms my conclusion as your reliance on your beliefs in the Holy Trinity of the left (Race, Gender, Class), have all shown their ugly heads.””By the way, when montana says “no one is in business to create jobs”, you know damned well that employment of more people is a necessary result of a successful and growing business.””So while the main objective of a business is to make products or services that generate revenues and profits, it is disingenuous of you to suggest that this is somehow wrong.”” And don’t be getting in any argument about Mitt Romney and the companies he bought or sold UNTIL you also blast your messiah, Obozo, for being a completely failed venture capitalist with OUR TAX DOLLARS in lousy and loser companies like Solyndra, Solar Trust, and all the other losers he burned our money on to pay off his rich fat cat finance buddies that invested in those schemes, and who are big donors to his campaign efforts.””All things considered, and looking at it objectively, Mitt Romney has been WAAAAAYYYY more of a “job creator””<

        Sorry, but attempting to define Romney as a "job creator" is a lame joke. He's not. He never was. It's not part of his job description. You might as well say he has more experience as Commander in Chief. Oh yeah…that's part of the job of President isn't it? What's Romneys resume on that? In fact what experience does the guy have in running a non-profit which is what the US Government is. He has none. At least none that he's willing to talk about. So he's NOT a job creator, and making money isn't what the job of president is all about. So…what exactly recommends him for the job again??

        The fact is that the only real Job Creator, is the consumer.

        • ObozoMustGo

          Hey Murph… you’re blinded by your own addiction to the leftist Holy Trinity of race, gender, and class. There IS NO victimization at every turn in America. It’s just not there. But I understand your need to see it because without it, you have no cause. You MUST see victimization in everything to justify your own ideology. It’s really just that simple.

          I’ll respond to one of your points because I just dont have them time to go into another long rant with you.

          >” In fact what experience does the guy have in running a non-profit”<

          What exactly do you call the Olympics? DOPE!

          Have a nice day!

          • Murphy831

            >”There IS NO victimization at every turn in America.”>”<the leftist Holy Trinity of race, gender, and class"<

            No Birtherism (racism) in play? You haven't been reading the news lately have you? From Donald Trump, to a moron congressman from Iowa, to the Attorney General of Arizizona threatening to keep the president off the ballot in Ariz.

            No Gender issue's? How about NC voting against same sex marriage? Imagine puttng rights up to a vote? Rights are rights pal. They aren't subject to a majority vote.

            And of course this: Planned Parenthood appears to be target No 1: Maine, Texas, Arizona, Ohio, Tennessee, Indiana, North Carolina and Kansas have all either had bills to defund Planned Parenthood successfully passed or else bills introduced to begin the process of defunding.

            Target No 2 is abortion rights. Since 2011, 92 new laws against abortion took effect, in 11 states: some states, such as Tennessee, are passing creative new restrictions on abortion rights. On 12 April, Governor Jan Brewer of Arizona signed a new law banning abortions later than 18 weeks after fertilization, and imposing new regulations making abortion more difficult to obtain.

            Other bills impose waiting periods for women after they have sought medical help – so that they are forced to "think it over" in a manner, and for a period, mandated by the state. A law in Utah requires women to wait 72 hours after receiving medical counselling, for instance, before having an abortion. A similar law is passed in South Dakota.

            Finally, some bills – in a way that defies the US constitution – limit or criminalize certain kinds of speech to pregnant women: a law in Kansas would allow medical professionals to refuse giving abortion-seeking women information about clinics and doctors.

            No gender warfare going on here folks. It's just that all these bills effect women. You could say, they target women.

            As for Class… The Ryan budget practices Class Genocide.

  • dmikee

    Romney remains true to his money masters. He is not worried about the poor, or the employees, or anything else for that matter. Of course he wants to repeal any legislation that limits his freedom to be a capitalist bucaneer.

  • mjw1952

    ANd the great jobs he created? All retail, probably with 85% of the jobs paying barely over minimum wage.

  • metrognome3830

    Hi, OMG
    I was busy with tech stuff today. Someone gave the bride a laptop computer which she, of course wanted to be networked with our PC. Unfortunately, because the laptop is a used model, running Windows Vista instead of Windows 7, there was a problem. I finally set up a Wi Fi connection. Now she can compute wherever she goes. Since then I have been busy updating, deleting and transferring files. And I had to get her a Mouse because she doesn’t like the touch pad. But we are operational now. I’m using the laptop to reply to you.

    How are you doing? Still twisting liberal tails? I haven’t had a chance to look at all my e-mails yet.

    You have a great day. We’ll talk later.