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Thursday, January 17, 2019

By Michael Hiltzik, Los Angeles Times

It was widely noticed two weeks ago that the Standard & Poor’s 500 index, the most important stock market indicator, had hit a milestone by crossing 2,000 for the first time.

It was less widely noticed that on that day, you would have notched a 148 percent gain if you had bought stocks on the day of President Barack Obama’s inauguration. In other words, the 2,000-point S&P was another manifestation of the Obama bull market — but nobody seems to call it that.

Big business continues to grouse about the White House, as it has done pretty much nonstop since Jan. 20, 2009. The very day after the S&P record close (the index closed Tuesday at 1,988.44) came yet another attack on Obama’s policies by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce — this one a largely evidence-free assertion that the Affordable Care Act “has incentivized employers to hire part-time workers over full-time ones.” Neither the Bureau of Labor Statistics nor the Congressional Budget Office has found signs of this effect, which is a favorite right-wing shibboleth.

The hostility of business and industry to Obama has become a byword over the years, from plutocrats complaining about being disrespected to bankers complaining that they’re woefully misunderstood. Yet judging by the stock market’s performance, no president has been as good for the capital markets since Bill Clinton (who also was detested by the business community). By some measures Obama also handily outranks that beacon of Republican business-friendliness, Ronald Reagan.

Here are some rough figures to ponder: After their full eight years in office, Clinton had presided over a run-up in the S&P 500 of about 210 percent; Reagan 118 percent. Obama hasn’t served his full term yet, of course, but as of Tuesday’s close the S&P is showing a gain of about 147 percent. If the market remains flat from here or gains, Obama will also have outrun Dwight Eisenhower, who notched a 129 percent gain during his term.

Obama beats Reagan and trails only Clinton among postwar presidents in many partial-term measures too. At Day 2,000 of his term, as was calculated by Russ Britt of MarketWatch in July, the stock market had gained 142 percent; for Reagan it was up about 88 percent and for Clinton 176 percent at the same stage.

The booby prize belongs to George W. Bush, down about 39 percent during his term.

In many ways, of course, this is a misleading exercise. Presidents have much less influence over the economy, not to mention the stock market, than they’re typically given credit for. But since they’re invariably blamed by the opposition party for market slumps that occur on their watch, it’s only proper to ask why this president, in particular, isn’t getting credit for a substantial bull run.

Occasionally a commentator will begrudgingly award Obama props for the economy’s performance, even in conservative publications, but on the whole he seems to get poor marks for economic stewardship.

Consider a curious recent piece by Daniel Gross in the Daily Beast: Gross says most of the credit for the stock market should go to the Federal Reserve and to U.S. corporations’ ability to tap foreign markets — but he also acknowledges that Obama was able to “reverse the free fall of late 2008 and early 2009, stop the panic, and create the conditions for growth.” Those are pretty significant policy achievements for which the Obama administration receives almost no credit. As for the Fed, let’s not forget that Obama did appoint Janet Yellen as chairwoman, in part because of the understanding that she would continue the policies of her predecessor, Ben Bernanke.

One frequently overlooked point is that, although presidents can’t always do much to push the economy or stock market higher, their mistakes can do much more to push both lower. George W. Bush is the gilt-edged example: His tax cuts, debt-fueled spending on military adventures and indifference to regulation all helped drive the U.S. economy off the cliff in 2008. He deserves every scrap of blame that can be mustered for the 40 percent decline in the S&P 500 during his term, and for the years of hangover since.

None of this means that the U.S. economy is doing as well as it should, or that businesses don’t have some reason for unhappiness with the Obama White House. Obama’s housing policies have been ineffective. Job growth has been steady but too slow — thank a recalcitrant Congress for that. Business doesn’t like regulation, which it has been getting plenty of, at long last.

More to the point, the stock market run-up in some ways underscores the structural problems of the U.S. economy, which really demand more attention from policymakers in the White House. Those gains have been concentrated among the upper echelons of the income pyramid, very much at the expense of the working class. (Don’t tell me that “workers are shareholders too” — the effect on their wealth and income from pension fund holdings is minuscule compared with the ground they lost through wage stagnation.)

One of the most persistent phenomenons in American history is that big business never recognizes when it’s getting a break. In 1934, when Franklin Roosevelt watered down the Securities Act that created the Securities and Exchange Commission, progressives were outraged.

Wall Street should remember FDR “with gratitude,” wrote an infuriated progressive in the New Republic. But he knew that wouldn’t happen — the stock exchange, he predicted, “will turn upon Roosevelt with fury.” So it did, even though FDR did more than any other individual to save Wall Street from extinction.

The pattern still holds today.

Michael Hiltzik is a columnist for the Los Angeles Times. Readers may send him email at mhiltzik@latimes.com.

Photo: Sebastian Alvarez via Flickr

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99 responses to “Big Business Should Be Saying Thanks To Obama”

  1. The lucky one says:

    The banksters especially should be fond of Obama, He has done nothing to punish their greed that caused the recession, bailed them out despite their recklessness and has continued to allow them to pillage the country.

    • Elliot J. Stamler says:

      Socialist nonsense.

    • pisces63 says:

      Excuse you liar. The banks were bailed out in 2008 after TARP passed on October 3, and received part of a $7 trillion loan from the federal reserve in 2008, December. Obama bailed out none of them, it was a done deal before he was elected and definitely before his inauguration. I get so tired of the lying right it makes me want to slap somebody and i am a peacenik. Can’t ANYONE be so stupid as to not remember or at least google recent history. HIS justice department under Holder has gotten back Citibank-$2 billion, Bank of America $8.5 billion and J. P. Morgan $13 billion on top of their repaying TARP and Federal Reserve loans and they ain’t finished, yet. So spit your lies elsewhere some of us remember history or can at least look it up. Reading is SOOOOOOO very fundamental.

      • The lucky one says:

        Ummm, how many banksters have been prosecuted?

        “I am concerned that the size of some of these institutions becomes so large that it does become difficult for us to prosecute them when we are hit with indications that if we do prosecute — if we do bring a criminal charge — it will have a negative impact on the national economy, perhaps even the world economy. I think that is a function of the fact that some of these institutions have become too large.” – Eric Holder
        What has Obama done, or even attempted to do to reduce the size of these “too big to prosecute banks”. I couldn’t find anything on google. Please enlighten me.

        • pisces63 says:

          No one cares what you are concerned with. This is a democracy. since when do you tell an american business what they can and cannot do and when they do they screw it up as they did with Ma Bell. Congress failed to establish this proviso when they voted for TARP and the president can do nothing about it. No president. Congress makes laws, remember? They did nothing to keep them from getting larger behind this last fiasco. Congress makes laws. The president cannot even suggest such a thing.
          Imbecilic nonsense.

          • The lucky one says:

            Speaking of imbecilic nonsense, of course the president can suggest anything and even advocate for anything. Just because he can’t just wish it into existence he work towards it, but in this area he has just continued the pattern of his predecessor.
            He can’t arbitrarily order the assassination of perceived enemies either, but he does.

  2. Dominick Vila says:

    What a lot of people don’t know, or have not noticed yet, is that large corporations seldom criticize President Obama’s policies. In addition to preventing the U.S. economy from the imminent collapse predicted by President Bush in 2008, President Obama kept the same corporate tax rates, subsidies, and tax loopholes, that allowed corporations and shareholders profit and grow. Add low interest rates, and it does not take a genius to understand what is behind the solid economic recovery and job growth we are enjoying after the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.
    I suspect they don’t feel the same way about Elizabeth Warren…

    • The lucky one says:

      The so-called job growth is an illusion and yes the repubs also play with the same smoke and mirrors when they benefit

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        The so-called job growth isn’t an illusion. Time for you to leave DogPatch more often. The GOP always plays smoke and mirrors games. I ought to know. I was a Republican for 33 years. I left the party in 2004 when I couldn’t stand any more of the male GOP bulls lording it over women in the party.

        • The lucky one says:

          Congratulations, now it’s time for you to open your eyes and leave the dem party as well. Maybe there used to be a difference but now they both are part of the corporatocracy.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            I always love when some younger than me tries to “teach” me what I already know. I don’t need to open my eyes. I love all of the Dems I voted for in my state. I know their record of bills and legislations sponsored. Can you say the same in your state?

            As for corporatocracy…I worked for 2 Fortune 50 Corporations in the 80s and 90s. I worked closely with CEOs, I know ALL of the games and know just how they managed to get so chummy with the GOP. There is nothing I need to “see” that you have yet to.

          • The lucky one says:

            Again you make assumptions that you have no way of knowing. I know what you are implying, that I am not as worldly wise as an old crone such as yourself but in my experience age has little to do with being curious and open minded.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            I make no assumptions. If I worked among CEOs, one of whom later became the famous Senator Frank Lautenberg, I think I know and experienced more than you EVER will.

            You aren’t a young pup. Just a snot nosed Know it All likely overeducated to the point where you believe only YOU know what’s best for the country. Sure..so did GWB. Try again …and this time without that middle aged angst.

          • The lucky one says:

            And that’s really the heart of your Ellie, you think you know but it’s really just your opinion. I’m sure you’ve had many experiences I never have but if you’re even a little bit honest you know that I’ve experienced things you know nothing about as well. No I don’t know what’s best for our country (neither do you) but I do know it sure as hell wasn’t Bush and it sure as hell is not Obama.

          • The lucky one says:

            You make no assumptions????? that’s all you do, that and try to impress everyone with your “worldly” opinions.

  3. FireBaron says:

    I amazes me how Republicans keep saying Democrats are bad for business, when every Democratic Administration since 1900 (except for Carter’s) showed economic growth over their terms, while the majority of Republican Administrations (even excluding Hoover) ended up with lower economic indicators than when they began.

    • Dominick Vila says:

      You are right. Unfortunately, there are some among us whose only line of defense is to claim that record corporate profits, a DOW Index at record levels, job growth, and other evidence of a solid economic recovery is a chimera and that the reality is that we are on the verge of economic Armageddon. The sad part is that a lot of Americans believe their rhetoric…while waiting a couple of hours in line to go on a Disney ride, when they have to postpone their cruise because they are all booked up, and when their return on Wall Street investments is at unprecedented levels.
      Bear in mind that the only option for members of a party with a horrible economic and job growth record is to claim that what we all see is not happening, and that the only way to reach economic Nirvana is to vote red.

      • The lucky one says:

        how is “record corporate profits” a good thing for average citizens who don’t own stock. I agree it’s good for corporate CEOS who are in a position to reward themselves handsomely for being such wizards.

        • Dominick Vila says:

          Prosperous companies tend to grow and hire. Admittedly, many are more inclined to invest their profits in Bangladesh than in the USA, but that is the result of greed rather than government policies.

        • Eleanore Whitaker says:

          How is that the fault of the President if you don’t earn enough to own stock? How is it the fault of the president if CEOs are greedy SOBs?

          • kenndeb says:

            If we only had a president.

          • FT66 says:

            Kenny, Kenny, Kenny can you please shut the hell up. We can’t tolerate this anymore. You mean we don’t have any President?. Can you use whatever you are using in a proper way.? This has gone over and above the normal limit. You might regret it Kenny!

          • kenndeb says:

            What? Having problems with someone that does not believe everything the government tells you?

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            We have a fine, hugely intelligent, proactive, skillful, experience TWICE elected president. Eat YOUR heart out Anarchist.

            The kind of president YOU elected got us into two trillion dollar wars, broke the backs of the Middle Class by promoting obscene wealth and then had the balls to not even see that Sept. 2008 Financial Meltdown coming after 8…8 …..8 years in office?

            That be your idea of a President? It figures…A president with puppet strings you can manipulate..That’s the kind of candidate you fascist control freaks all want.

            You may think you can control the rest of us. But, that’s only because you have the mental acuity of a 2 year old child. Grow the hell up already.

          • The lucky one says:

            Not his fault that CEOs are greedy but he is doing nothing to curb it. Yes Bush didn’t either but that doesn’t excuse Obama’s lack of action.

        • Sand_Cat says:

          I think that’s why the article’s title is what it is.
          What is your real point in all of these posts?

          • The lucky one says:

            Maybe I missed the point. My impression was that the author felt corporations owing Obama a debt of gratitude was a sign he has performed well for the country while I think it’s an indication of the exact opposite.

  4. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    President Obama isn’t the Legislative branch of government. Try to remember that. If he was the entire ruling member of the Legislative branch, banks wouldn’t get away with the fraud and deception that begin in 2001. The minute the Bush election was called in his favor, every rich man in the US knew they had the 99% by the balls.

    It’s why in only 8 years, 2 major tax cuts were issued. Why also in 8 years, Big Business anti-trust laws were trashed by those who fly under government regulated radar.

    Right now you have Marc Cuban whining how the SEC doesn’t provide clear cut regulations. BS. These rich bois have spent their entire financial careers living in Loophole La La land and now patently ignore SEC regulations with gusto. In the words of rich witch Leona Helmsley, “The rich don’t pay taxes. Only the little people do.”

    These rich men know precisely what US banking and Wall Street regulations are. But like wild, lawless yahoos, they deliberately ignore them and then play their silly “I didn’t know” games. Something they do not EVER allow any of their employees to pull off.

    • kenndeb says:

      He just thinks he is the legislative branch.

      • BillP says:

        Another pearl of wisdom from the mouth of ignorance. Try writing something of substance instead of your usual drivel.

        • kenndeb says:

          Will you stop your drivel? I thought not.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            kenndeb…the KNow it All of Know it Alls…Is at it again. If President Obama WAS the entire legislative branches asses like right wingers would not live off MY tax dollars. If you are trying to prove your “ignernce,” congratulate yourself.

            Now…take your ISIS membership card and your hater mouth and move to Iraq…where your hero Bush started a war that is costing US taxpayers more than a dozen years after Bush just had to stick his beak into that country’s business..Just like you do.

            President Obama kept your lazy red butt end from sinking further into a Great Depression..Do you EVER plan on admitting Bush was president during 9/11? During the 2008 Financial Meltdown? During the worst 8 years that spawned this so-called Great Recession..KennDeb…Dipshit Inc’s. President.

          • kenndeb says:

            I identify more with conservatives than I do with either the communist democrats, or the republicans. You are just a crazy stupid person that is really scary in that you actually believe the stuff that pours out your butt, or face, not too sure which it is.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            No…You don’t identify with conservatives…Not the conservatives I remember like Eisenhower or Stevenson…They would never EVER demean any president. You are a closet racist and a liar who cannot admit your own faults. More’s the pity…Call yourself what you really are “ignernt” white trash on welfare without a job or hope of every moving your double wide to gainful employment.

          • kenndeb says:

            You have no idea as to who I am, or what I have accomplished in my life. You are far too stupid to even comprehend whether it’s day or night. Maybe if you hurry, you can get on obamacare and get the help you need, but don’t wait too long. I think that monstrosity will be tossed out along with all the rest of the illegal actions taken by this lawless Emperor.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            My, my — having issues with people calling you racist again? Well, you DO know what that means, right?

          • Sand_Cat says:

            WOW. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! I guess you are without shame, Ken. But that makes you an ideal member of today’s GOP and the supposed “conservatives” who dominate it.

          • BillP says:

            Typical of your comments just copy someone else’s writing. I knew you were a cowardly liar, now you have to plagiarize. You are pathetic.

          • kenndeb says:

            A repost is plagiarism? More stupid fro a liberal.

          • BillP says:

            No moron plagiarism is copying someone else’ s without crediting them. Did you mean from you right wing ignorant troll!

      • pisces63 says:

        He is the Executive branch. Congress is supposed to be the legislative branch and does nothing. They bailed out the banks by agreeing to Bush’s request. At first republicans voted no but then, Bush came to the floor of Congress and personally requested it’s passage which it did, October 3, 2008. They borrow money to pay the debt. They pay the bills. They okay what is to be paid. Not the Executive branch. Not at all.

        • kenndeb says:

          The emperor has been deciding to do what he wants to do, when he wants to do it, so long as it fits his agenda, and feels he has no obligation to follow any of our laws. When he was sworn in, he swore an oath to support and defend the constitytion, and to faithfully execute the laws of our land. He has done nothing to fulfill his oath. All I have seen is him breaking one law after another because he feels he is above our laws. We need a real change in our government.

          • pisces63 says:

            Yet, you village idiots known at bigots against a black president would not like anything he does. You think he should have stayed in the back of the bus. You dummies don’t even believe he got into harvard by grades. YOu think affirmative action. But harvard has NEVER haD IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE ADMITTED BLACKS SINCE THE 1800’S. Bush got in on affirmative action. It was affirmative his father paid his way. He was not qualified educationally. He executes all the laws of the land. You just don’t like he did not ask massah’s permission. He does what he can without the the plantation owner’s say so. They just cannot lynch, beat or blow him up like most of you pin headed bigots would have done just 50 years ago. Get it straight. We do not genuflect. You spit on my like was done to Rep. Lewis in cambers, I will catch a case and you or womeone like you would get foot in ass disease. I am sick of your mewling lies on this man. Get a life or you know exactly where you can go. Go get boooed like Cruz.

          • kenndeb says:

            The Emperor deserves no respect from anyone. When do traits like dishonesty, and deceit deserve respect? I guess only when you are a liberal that wants to see this country in communist hands.

          • pisces63 says:

            I guess when you are a right wing republican. Non existant WMDs have gotten how many of our children dead, maimed, injured. How many Iraqis dead, displaced, etc. You believed that from your Holy emperor. He upped the anti with NSA. More spying powers and if YAHOO had continued to deny them the information, they would have been fined $250,000 a day and lost the right to deny this as an infringement on our civil liberties in court in 2008. The strip searching allowed at airports. The militerizing of our police departments with the approval of the patriot act to get tanks, armored vehicles, etc. for a civilian populace. Who again is communist? Since you have no clue the meaning of the word or socialism, I consider the source and ignore. Bet you said NOTHING when this was done a month after 9/11. Oh, that’s right a white man did it and it had to be the truth and right.

          • kenndeb says:

            Bush was the worst, then we rotten. The last 2 decades have seen our government turn truly corrupt.

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        Kenndeb…those terminal hemorrhoids bothering your butt end again? The President has the authority as the head of the Executive branch as is imposed on him by YOUR Constitution…You know…the one you jerks of the right love to ignore until you can reinterpret its meaning to your advantage? I hear ISIS calling…they love people like you who bash your own president…Be off with you Hater Mouth.

        • kenndeb says:

          Yeah. I place you as number 3 of the most vile, stupid posters on this site. You seem to have that old ailment of diarrhea of the mouth, and everything you say smells.

  5. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    The day any Republican ever utters the words, “I was wrong,” the Stars and Bars will become the US flag and the world will return to pre-Civil War days. These are men totally incapable of a single thought that doesn’t benefit the rich. Every action they take is guaranteed to be biased toward Big Business.

    When you get fed up with every spare dollar of your payroll tax deductions keeping businesses in existence when they’d have died 20 years ago of natural causes, you’ll realize that you are the sole support of the world’s biggest corporate welfare program.

    • The lucky one says:

      “The day any Republican ever utters the words, “I was wrong,” True enough, but also true of democrats in most cases.

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        You are not only not lucky…You are a ball faced liar. I heard President Obama in 2009 apologize and again just last year. Your problem is you’d love to see this president lynched wouldn’t you Mr. CONfederate State BS artist?

        • kenndeb says:

          Right after a trial for treason.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Hey dipshit…Here’s what Article III, Sec 3 of YOUR Constitution states: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying WAR against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them aid and comfort. That’s what you do…give aid and comfort to our enemies..every time you open a stupid yap and demean the president of your country. You are a classless, “ignernt” boob who is so wrapped up in yourself, you are unable to comprehend the magnitude of your whining, bitching and disrespect for the President.

          • kenndeb says:

            If we only had a president, unfortunately we do not.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Article III, Sec 3….Can you read?

          • The lucky one says:

            We have a president, just not a very good one and we haven’t a good one in a very very long time.

          • The lucky one says:

            Ellie, Did you ever demean Bush when he was “president”? Of course not, you are too refined for that. I can see that by the way you respectfully address those that disagree with you as in “hey dipshit”.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            No…Actually, I never made up childish names like the right do..”Obummer.”

            I felt sorry for Bush. I knew his past history since I’d read much about him in his earlier political and business years. I knew he already had 2 strikes against him when it came to financial management. His bankrupting his own Arbusto Oil Company and that Texas baseball team. I also knew he’d been arrested in NJ during his college years for being “drunk and disorderly” in Princeton. It’s pretty hard to get busted in Princeton since most of the Princeton U students there are always in that state at night on Nassau Street.

            I felt sorry for Bush for being Cheney’s prostitute. Bush ’43 was pimped out to Cheney by his father. If you read the connection between Bush ’41, Cheney and Rumsfeld, you see the dirty dealings these 3 pulled off during the Nixon and Reagan tours of duty.

            Cheney attempted a run for president in 1994. His own party refused to put him out there. So, he figured out if he could wheel and deal with Halliburton, he could use the back door to get into the White House. In 1996, Cheney became CEO of Halliburton. Now, all Cheney needed was a poster boy to run for president and he could use the back room office to BE president. GWB ’43 filled that bill perfectly. He was never notoriously ambitious as Cheney was and Cheney always knew Bush ’43 was intimidated by a CEO of the US’s biggest military and energy supplier, Halliburton.

            I didn’t vote for Bush ’43 because I felt he was not suited to leadership roles given his past record. However, I never ever call any president childish names. I’m first an American and I’m acutely aware of how foreigners view Americans who bash their president.

          • Sand_Cat says:

            I’m SURE you’d still want the penalty after the acquittal on such a ridiculous charge. Crawl back under your rock, Ken, or whoever you are.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            In some countries people like you don’t even face a trial before being executed…

          • kenndeb says:

            So true, but I live in Americca, where you can say what you want about the opposition. I know you liberals would like to see that changed, but I don’t forsee that in the near future. Just got back from watching a movie you liberals should watch. “The Giver” was great. It shows what a world run by liberals would look like. Truly scary.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            At least make an effort to spell America correctly. I am sure a world where everyone has access to affordable medical care, a world where workers earn livable wages, a world where everyone has the same rights and opportunities, and a world where everyone can express their opinion, as long as they don’t threaten others, would give you permanent nightmares. Sorry, but that happens to be what most civilized people want. You lose!

          • The lucky one says:

            I’d like that too Dom but apparently a sufficient majority does not because we’ve never had it, although it is worse now. Yes we can express our opinions freely but when a journalist goes beyond the propaganda and reports the real facts they risk prosecution. Why anyone would want to be a whistleblower with the consequences they will face is incredible. And yes, sorry to say, Obama is even worse on that account than Bush.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Would you mind citing a couple of examples that compare what is happening today to what happened to Amb. Wilson and his wife Valerie Plame? Or what happened to the Dixie Chicks?

          • The lucky one says:

            “the Obama administration has used the Espionage Act to go after whistleblowers who leaked to journalists … more than all previous administrations combined.” Jake Tapper (Host CNN The Lead) That from our “transparent” president.

            The treatment of Chelsea Manning was shameful. I know you think Snowden a traitor although he risked his life to expose the degree to which we are spied on by our own government.

            I’m not going to defend the Bush cartel. Libby should have gone to prison for exposing Plame, no question at all. If we ever prosecuted “leaders” for treason he could share a cell with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and a few others but Obama has continued down the same path.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            The effectiveness of our intelligence agencies to preclude another 9/11, and protect our global interests, depend on the gathering of information.
            The Obama administration did not go after innocent whistle blowers. It, or more accurately, the CIA, FBI, and NSA tried to learn as much as they could about what foreign sources in Libya had told some of our journalists. That’s what they have always done, and I hope they continue doing it.
            Snowden is a traitor. A man that releases classified information to the entire world and seeks refuge in countries like China and Russia, is not a hero. He is a scumbag who should spend the rest of his life behind bars. As for Manning, I don’t know too much about her and the incident you mentioned, so I rather don’t comment on that.

          • The lucky one says:

            How would you describe “innocent whistle blowers” as apart from “guilty” ones? Do you ever see a justifiable reason for releasing classified information to the public? Maybe if we had some with the courage of Manning, Snowden and others during the Bush regime we could have avoided a war based on lies and the debacle that has ensued since then.
            You apparently believe Snowden should have remained here and faced the music. Maybe you should acquaint yourself with the government’s treatment of Manning when she chose that course, another shameful incident that occurred under Obama’s watch with his approval.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            I was unaware of the fact that Bradley Edward Manning had changed his name – and gender.
            Having access to classified information and information gathering tools is a privilege, enjoyed when the government places enough confidence on an individual to share details that most people don’t need to know. If Manning and Snowden were troubled by what they learned, they should have requested a transfer to another unit or quit. Betraying the confidence placed on you, and jeopardizing the national security of your country is treason. Period. Full stop.

          • The lucky one says:

            What if someone like Snowden had revealed the misinformation and lies Bush/Cheney was using to push us into Iraq. Would that have been
            treason? Is exposing the treasonous acts of others itself treason?
            A lengthy heavily biased court found no proof that Manning’s actions endangered any troops or reduced national security.
            Is that what you would have advised the three soldiers who halted the slaughter at My Lai and reported the incident, transfer to another
            unit or quit. They were denounced as traitors by several U.S. Congressmen including the Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. Thirty years later they were recognized and decorated, one posthumously, by the U.S. Army for shielding non-combatants from harm in a war zone. Maybe Manning will get his in
            30 or maybe posthumously. Of course Manning didn’t shield non-combatants from murder, he just exposed it.
            Yes the government “trusted” him. Shame on the fool who placed a human being with a conscience in that postion.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Neither Snowden not Manning revealed lies committed by a U.S. President, they revealed sensitive information that undermined our ability to gather information vital to our national security, and details that resulted in loss of credibility. We do not live in a perfect world, where peaceful coexistence is possible. We live in a world where military solutions are preferable to dialogue, where some people take the law into their own hands, where the law is meaningless, and where terrorists don’t hesitate to kill thousands of people, and behead some in public.
            Those who do not understand the need for effective intelligence gathering to minimize threats against our country and our interests deserve to be prosecuted. The soldiers that carried out the My Lai massacre were not involved in releasing classified information to the world, they carried out a criminal act and they deserved to be prosecuted for it.

          • The lucky one says:

            You probably don’t care but if you re-read my post you’ll see that you didn’t reply to anything I said.
            “resulted is a loss of credibility” Do you mean of our government? That would be impossible because our government already has zero credibility. That’s been demonstrated over and over by at least the last 5 administrations.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            If you are talking about international credibility, I beg to differ. We do have credibility, and most civilized countries follow our lead. It is true, however, that some of our closest allies no longer take our claims of imminent danger for granted, and that most are reluctant to join us in new adventures in Muslim countries.
            President Clinton is welcome as a hero every time he travels abroad, and so is President Obama.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Actually, we liberals love to keep enemies of our country like you talking. That way, we know what you are up to and how mentally ill you all are.

            We are sick of giving to lazy asses who live in your CON state.

          • The lucky one says:

            Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I live in NY. I wouldn’t be too free with saying “we liberals” if I were you. Many liberals are thoughtful and open minded I don’t think they would claim a narrow minded blowhard like you as one of their own.

          • The lucky one says:

            Yes spoken like a true “liberal”, not. It’s what you’d really like though isn’t it

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Typical Tea Party retort. Accuse the person disgusted by the most unpatriotic statements made in this forum by insinuating that the accuser is the one that favors what a Republican suggested. Try something a little more convincing next time, you are not addressing brain dead zombies in a Tea Party rally.

          • The lucky one says:

            You are correct! I’m addressing brain dead zombies in a liberal hug fest. I don’t much difference between the two groups except that the liberals are a bit more articulate in spewing their nonsense.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Judging by the content of what some “conservative” post, lack of substance seems to be a pre-requisite to become a bonafide Tea Party member.

        • The lucky one says:

          elenore, grow up will you. Nothing I said could possibly be construed as racist but I would agree that some of the criticism directed his way comes from racism. OK I’ll grant you that maybe he has apologized but he still has a lot more to atone for. Just because Bush was a mindless cretin with no morals doesn’t excuse Obama for his lapses.
          BTW not from the south. My wife and best friend are both African-American so I must be a real good conman, right?

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            If you have to defend your post, you prove otherwise.

          • The lucky one says:

            Hmmm, and you don’t do that right? hahahaha

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Little secret I can “teach” you….I spent and spend most of my life as a writer..first a tech writer and now SEO online…I never EVER post or publish anything I know I can’t prove. So..NO..I never defend my posts..I’m A. too constructively arrogant to do that and B. I don’t need to since I know I can prove what I post.

            I am who I say I am and I exercise my First Amendment rights currently under attack by some in the US who think curtailing First Amendment rights will get them what they want. Spoiled children do that..not mature minded adults.

          • The lucky one says:

            C’mon lady (using the term loosely) I’ll grant your arrogance, you’ve demonstrated that amply enough. But do you ever read yourself, you have often “defended” your points (if we can all them that). Obama has mounted a bigger attack on your 1st amendment rights than did Bush.
            It’s been very interesting to me to watch the reactions of many such as yourself to criticisms of your hero Obama. Really not much different than the reactions of the right wingers to their hero Bush. I guess that’s what tribalism is all about though huh?

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            The very fact that a bully male like you feels the need to question and use the word “lady” in that manner shows your pathetic desperation to be the Grand High Grand Pubbah of Upper Butt Crack.

            Obama has mounted nothing. YOU are the ones doing all the “mounting.” Democracy isn’t a horse and saddle you can buy cowboy.

            I criticize people like you because contrary to your egotistical male need to bloat your egos incessantly, you only prove just the opposite…Bullies are the most grossly insecure control freaks.

            You don’t like facts do you? Do try and step out of your Loophole La La land and get out of that saddle ….your double wide has so many callouses, it’s affected your mental processes.

          • The lucky one says:

            You are right, my bad, using the term lady when referring to an arrogant bigoted blowhard such as yourself is an insult to ladies and I apologize to them. Facts?? When have you any provided any, just your over blown opinion of your own opinion. You and Limbaugh maybe on opposite sides of the political fence but you are like twins otherwise.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Transition from little boy to Mr. Man didn’t take did it? Men like you love to push, shove and bully. Doesn’t work with me. You don’t like any woman who will get right back in your face and tell it like it is…not like YOU YOU YOU want it to be.

            As for Limbaugh, you are more of his crony than I. I don’t waste my time on trash. Limbaugh and bulls like you are chewed up and spit out with ease.

          • The lucky one says:

            Well Ellie, I see old age and senility hasn’t affected your imagination has it? You’re still able to conjure up a rich fantasy life for yourself, good for you.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Well Lucky, I see you think you must have the last word. Wow…Just like your GOP bulls…and right wing trough feeders. Check out Limpballs loss of sponsors. Not just a hot ticket once sponsors pull out. As for you, luck isn’t feeding from the trough corporate welfare boi. It isn’t corruption either.

            If I had conjuring powers, I’d return this country to peace and order, get rid of gun asshats trying to fly that Stars And Bars BS rag and put teeth into Big Business regulations fools like you think is Loophole la la land. But do enjoy your right wing corruption. The US Middle Class isn’t on its ass yet while you trough feeders fatten those double wides.

            I worked enough skanks in my day to know your kind of posts are bully tactics just to make sure you get the last word. Not when your last word is skank.

          • The lucky one says:

            Someone who is repeatedly wrong like you needs to be corrected. I agree about biz regs and would be happy to see Rush penniless out on the street. People like you are so enraged when someone disagrees or challenges your heroes that you immediately put them in a category you can try to feel superior to. I’ve been middle class my whole life though I’ve moved up some and how you could possibly see my comments as coming from the right is an example of how deluded you are. I’m farther than you are from the right wing.
            C’mon Dominick tell her how you think I’m a radical Chomsky reading leftist. Boy you people are a hoot.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            You think ANYONE who dares disagree with YOU is wrong…How narcissistic do you plan to get?

            Your posts are moronic visions of men who think they produce 14K gold bowel movements when all they really produce are landfills of manure.

            I don’t hate you or your views. I merely hate the implications by you that YOU are infallible on issues of everything known to mankind. You must be a real joy to live with. That attitude of superiority, oneupmanship and bullying must go over really big with your McWifie who sucks up to you and your family who thinks you are Mr. MANhood incarnate. Those ain’t testicles. They’re raisins.

            Grow up Mr. Know it All. No one likes a big mouth bully who can’t hold a candle to those with provable intelligence.

            Last word? That’s all you bullies know….Having the last word so you can show ass and then deny all the BS you get away with.

          • The lucky one says:

            Actually I don’t know what it is you agree or disagree with. all you do is rant and rave, call names, try to disparage those who challenge you and make totally wild off the mark assumptions about others. Do you suffer from penis envy or is it just penis deprivation? You seem to come back to your skewed feminist statements often. Oh and I don’t hate you either, I did find you amusing at first but the repetitive theme of all your posts is just getting boring. B’bye, you can go back to you fantasy land now.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Most penis brains are bullies. That’s proven by today’s GOP bulls who think they can walk all over this president and no one will notice their bullying. That’s what I don’t agree with. Men who pull that BS are little bois who haven’t grown up and learned the first life lesson of importance…Getting YOUR way isn’t a demand anyone else will EVER tolerate. Every one of your posts prove what a childish little ingrate you are and how important it is for you to bully and push your testicles to puffing point until they burst. Take that to your idiot McWifie…She needs your BS ….I don’t. And you still don’t get to have the last word…Keep posting moron….You just show what a bully your are trying to be. Must be married to a woman who doesn’t hand you the Charmin right?

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            A right wing narrow mind is a penis brain overdosed on Viagra.

  6. Elliot J. Stamler says:

    I’m a retired businessman, strong capitalist and staunch Democrat. It is just wrong to say that all business and industry is hostile to Pres. Obama. Most businessmen are and always have been Republicans and regrettably won’t, can’t accept the fact that they do better under Democrats than under Republicans. But not all. That’s why there are plenty of rich Democratic businessmen who happily support our party. And Democratic-leaning businessmen too such as Warren Buffett and Bill Gates. We Democrats are the defenders of capitalism because we understand that to succeed and prosper it must be humane, socially-conscious and not degenerate into naked (Republican) greed. As to the leftist socialists..do yourselves a favor and us too–get out of the Democratic Party where you masquerade yourselves as “liberals” and join the Socialist Party where you properly belong. (Or in some cases, the Green Party, the Socialist Workers Party, or the Communist Party.)

  7. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    Bush was wrong about WMDs in Iraq. In 2007, the 9/11 Commission reamed out Rice’s ass for the mistakes made by her and the Bush/Cheney presidency. Not once did President Bush EVER admit he made a mistake about those WMDs even when the 9/11 Commission clearly stated Iraq didn’t even have those rods or the capability of using WMDs.

    Did we hear Bush say, “I’m wrong?” You bet not. Out of only 4 SOTU addresses he ever bothered to give with his nooklear language, he stated in 2005 that it was an “Italian informant for gave his administration the wrong information.” Funny how a document showed that it was Cheney and not an Italian informant who handed over all those documents to Bush personally…Now the GOP Bulls want to make it appear they had nothing to do with 9/11 even when all the red flags were there and the 9/11 Commission clearly laid blame on them.

  8. Whatmeworry says:

    And just what success story does the Memo opine as Baraks??

  9. Allan Richardson says:

    Even though business thrives under Democratic administrations, there is a small, vocal number of CEO and CEO wannabe types who believe business will fail UNLESS they get a government which:
    — has NO RESTRICTION on pollution and allows businesses to poison the entire planet rather than have to spend a dime avoiding doing so (maybe so that if they spend a PENNY, they can claim to be so righteous in their ads);
    — allows TOTAL freedom in hiring, firing and promoting to discriminate on the basis of race, religion, age, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, or just because the boss doesn’t like someone’s face;
    — requires businesses and rich individuals to pay NO TAXES AT ALL, putting the tax burden on the poor and (soon to become poor) middle class, while they collect interest on government debt (T-bills) paid from the taxes collected from the “poor chumps” who still have to pay;
    — allows corporations to hire almost nobody to work here in America and still expect Americans to pay good money for their products (money they do not have because THERE ARE NO JOBS because of those companies);
    — allows bosses to pay as little as they can get away with paying people desperate for one of the few jobs left, cheat them out of even what they HAD agreed to pay by falsifying workers’ hours, provide no benefits, not even basic safety precautions (you get sick breathing the fumes that fill your work area, it’s your tough luck);
    — and basically create an industrial version of the Biblical economy, with themselves as kings, high priests, tax collectors, etc. and everyone else as peasants.

    No matter how prosperous businesses get when playing by decent rules of fairness (which history has shown to be MORE prosperous than when they did all the things listed above), some of their bosses feel it is STILL not enough for them, and TOO MUCH for the working people.

  10. ustserv says:

    Most small businesses resent Crony Capitalism where large companies like GE get all the gravy projects. Contrary to some posters, business thrives under both Red and Blue Administrations. The government spends way too much on pet projects that are given to large donors and friends of the administration in power. There are very poor controls on spending and there are limited controls on the work being done although there is a huge bureau of people working for the government that make it very difficult to do efficient and productive work. A prime example if the ObamaCare website. 1 billion for a website and it still does not work correctly! Some company from Canada profited enormously from the contract. They did a lousy job and were never penalized but just check their connections. Until this type of contracting is cleaned up, the government will pay significantly more than the private sector for the same services. Too bad it is considered as the way of life. It should not be considered that way.

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