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Saturday, October 1, 2016

Facts Matter: How Biden Put Ryan On The Defensive In Danville

Facts Matter: How Biden Put Ryan On The Defensive In Danville

Reflecting on his widely praised speech at the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, former President Bill Clinton said that “I was just determined to get the facts right and to simplify the argument without being simplistic. I didn’t want to talk down to people, I wanted to explain what I thought was going on.”

At the vice presidential debate in Danville, Kentucky, Vice President Joe Biden followed Clinton’s example. Biden’s approach to the debate could be summed up in two words that he repeated to moderator Martha Raddatz of ABC News: “Facts matter.” On issue after issue, Biden did to Ryan what President Obama failed to do to Mitt Romney in their debate: Forced him to play defense by calling out his deceptions and distortions.

When Raddatz asked the candidates who would pay more taxes and who would pay less if their tickets were elected, Biden replied simply: “The middle class will pay less and people making $1 million or more will begin to contribute slightly more,” then backed up his response by explaining the Obama administration’s support for extending the Bush tax cut for the middle class, while letting the tax cut for the wealthiest Americans expire.

By contrast, Ryan again promised a 20 percent tax cut across the board, claiming they would make it “revenue neutral” without naming a single deduction that a Romney administration would eliminate to pay for it. After Raddatz correctly pointed out that Ryan had still not named any specifics (perhaps he felt that he didn’t have enough time), Biden pounced.

“The only way you can find $5 trillion in loopholes” to make the Ryan/Romney tax cut revenue neutral “is cut the mortgage deduction for middle-class people, cut the health care deduction for middle-class people, take away their ability to get a tax break to send their kids to college,” he explained.

When Biden added that Ryan and Romney’s promise was “not mathematically possible,” it forced Ryan to claim that the plan had been accomplished “a couple of times before,” which is simply not true.

The candidates had similar exchanges on several other issues. After Ryan trashed the stimulus bill as a prime example of wasteful government spending and corruption, Biden pointed out that not only has there been little to no evidence of waste, fraud, or “cronyism” in the stimulus spending — but that Ryan himself had requested stimulus funds for his home district to promote jobs and growth.

On Medicare, Ryan made his usual pitch that Obamacare raids $716 billion from Medicare, and that both Medicare and Social Security are going bankrupt — making his unpopular “reforms” unavoidable. In response, Biden explained that “we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to Medicare” to keep the system solvent through 2024.

“Any senior out there, ask yourself: Do you have more benefits today? You do,” Biden continued. “If you’re near the donut hole, you have $800 — $600 more to help your prescription drug costs. You get wellness visits without co-pays.”

  • bcarreiro

    paul ryan is a two face ……………….he is part of the problem and not a solution.

    • Wish Biden Would Have Told On Him About His Church He Love So Well Ripped Him A New Butthole Calling His Budget Bill IMMORAL!! But Ryan Wolfed That Water Down Cause He Was In The HOT SEAT!!!

  • VP Biden did an outstanding job, he was engaged, sincere, emotional, and spoke from his heart. Rep Ryan was the classic wonk, he talked and spewed facts like a robot, showed no emotion, but in all fairness he demonstrated that he is an intelligent and articulate politician. The debate was not a grand slam for Biden, but I believe he won, to a great extend because he was sincere and truthful, while many of Ryan’s assertions were, to put it mildly, debatable and bordering on being outright lies.

    • Yes Ryan Wolfed Down The Water Cause His Pants Started To Catch On Fire Joe Biden Served Him A Can Of Whoopass!!! LOL It Wasn’t No Going Jello Here Joe Nail His Butt To The Lies!!! Obama/ Biden 2012 And Get The GOP/Tea Party Terrorists OUT OF OFFICE!!! Good Morning My Friend!!! 🙂

      • old_blu

        “Pants sarted to catch on fire” Now that’s some funny stuff (as Biden would say). Good morning to you my friend.

      • hilandar1000

        Love it Fern — you do have a way with words alright!

        • Thank You My Friend Good Morning What A Great Morning It Is!!! Anytime I Hear Rich People Whining Like Spoil Little Brats I Know Our Side Scored Big!!! LOL

    • atc333

      Face it. Ryan had a hard job, selling failed economic theory, and claiming this time, (the fourth attempt) it will work, simply because the top 2%, the “job creators” now own so much of America’s wealth, (44%) that they will finally feel obligated to invest in lower return job creation investments, than their usual high return investments, that finally, jobs will start being created.. Guess what, it does not work!
      Romney’s own tax returns will prove that fact. No job creation investments, only high profit investments, such as Bain, which to generates high profits, just destroys jobs. .

      The solutions are increase taxes on the top 2%, then give them tax credits and deductions for creating jobs, and only then will you see the top 2% actually creating jobs. Giving them low taxes, or tax cuts subsidized by all the tax payers of this nation, which results in massive deficits, 10 trillion dollars in deficits, and no jobs, finally culminating with the Bush II meltdown. Now, Romney and Ryan want to do it all over again.

      The GOP House knew it would be a hard sell, so incrase the odds of winning by blocking and stalling job creation bills by claiming they would increase the debt, then once the GOP candidates offer their plan, which includes 5 trillion dollars in additional deficits over 10 years, suddenly the GOP is all aboard. Talk about hypocrisy! For the GOP Politicians in office it has been all about winning in 2012, and not about restoring the Nation for the past 2 years.

      Why would any American vote for the Party which chooses winning at any cost over Nation for the past 2 years, and which has no solutions tor all the citizens of this Country? America is not just about the the top 2%. who now have accumulated 44% of America’s wealth,, and have increased their income by 275% as a result of trickle down economics, or even the top 10% who now own 90% of America’s assets. It is about the 100%, , of which 90% of who the GOP as a Party has chosen to ignore.

      “Moderate Mitt” is an illusion. “47% Mitt” we saw in his fund raising meeting, and Ryan are the real deal for the top 2%. Sweep away the distortions, the misleading, false claims and the outright lies which have won “Lyin Ryan” his new nickname, and the result is no solutions for the 98%. no solutions for America. The Ryan Budget is based upon failed economic theory, which three GOP Administrations have proven does not work. In 28 years, the GOP has created less than half the number of jobs the the Democratic Administrations had in 24 years.
      Look at what Clinton and the “Real GOP:” accomplished. Those GOP legislators chose to put Nation, not politics first. We found ourselves with a balanced budget, and a thriving economy.

      What does that tell you, the Undecided Voter?

      You have been shown what works. The “Marvelous” Romeny Ryan Budget will not work All it is is Bush II Redux, “Reaganomics” “Trickle down” economics, “Vaodoo Economics” Many names, but the same results. It creates deficits, not jobs. In the middle of the results of the Bush Great Recession, Obama has created more private sector jobs than Bush did in 8 years in office.

      No thank you.

      • You Got That Right And There Is No Soft Sides To These Polices They Are Only For The Rich What About The Rest Of Us ????

      • sigrid28

        This is a tour-de-force. We should all print and post on our refrigerators and to undecided friends–maybe even decided ones. Bravo!

      • Tax breaks for every person they hire, IN THIS COUNTRY.

      • darkagesbegin

        definition of insanity: voting for yet another republican promising that this time trickle-down voodoo economics will work, really. No, really!

        • Dark, they are always referring back toReagan and how he cut taxes for the “job creators”. Reagan lowered taxes in 1981 and found it was not working and it was hurting the economy. Being a smart man (unlike what we have today) Reagan raised taxes in 1982.

          • CPANY

            Similar to Bush senior, who said “Read my lips. No new taxes.”

          • politicalhack1

            Maggie, Reagan did cut taxes dramatically from a gross tax rate of 70 percent, (effective rate somewhat lower, to something less than 30 percent. Yes he did raise taxes to compensate. In fact he raised taxes eleven times while in office……but all these were not the income tax. He replaced the progressive income tax, with regressive taxes like gasoline taxes. This did not entirely work, so he did raise the national debt by 189%. I recognize that Reagan was a great communicator, and worked with Tip O’Neil and other Democrats, But he made huge mistakes, and I dont really understand why Republicans today place him so high in their estimation. He got in simply because of the “Stagflation” that hit in the seventies, and touted the old old idea of trickle down economics, raised the debt, lied about Iran Contra………I have seen him compared with another President……..Franklin Pearce!

          • darkagesbegin

            no mystery why they venerate him–besides lincoln who else are they going to talk about–Nixon? Ford? Bush and bush light? The only other republican worth mentioining is Eisenhower. And they can’t mention him without bringing to mind his warning of the military industrial complex–the very thing they need to finance their lies.

          • DurdyDawg

            Well, you gotta respect the last “old pioneer’ of death valley days.. He was nostalgic, a story teller.. A ‘B’ movie actor who played his part as president like a pro. No one recognized this except the more intelligent citizens. His only accomplishment had absolutely nothing to do with America and in it he pissed off many of his pubs buddies by ending a cold war and humanizing the word ‘communist’ both of which the pubs enjoyed the way it had been working and controlling Americans for decades.

  • Biden had Ryan for lunch and yet the media (CNN etc.) declares a tie just after it ended! What has happened to the media in this Country?

    • Yes He Did Now The GOP/Tea Party Is Crying Biden Was Rude LOL It’s Was Okay For Romney To Be Rude And With The Non Stop Lying But Joe Was Rude??? Give Me A Break Please!! Sour Grapes!!!

      • BDD1951

        I kind of thought it was a tie. But you gotta love Joe. That is a good man who genuinely loves America and the American people. Ryan is a typical politician who has the attitude of “I got mine now you get yours,”

        • Not Me I Thought Joe Nail Him He Left Him No Wiggle Room To Worm His Butt Out Of!!! Ryan Tried To Lie, BOOM Joe Called Him On It!!! That’s Why He Was Wolfing Down All That Water Trying To Put His Pants On!!! LOL Joe Said There Will Be No Pants On Fire Going On Here Not On My Watch!!! LOL Ryan Was Still Lying He Was Toning Down They Polices They Are Running On Cause They Till No Giving No Clear Details!!

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        If you think Biden acted GREAT and RESPECTFUL and wonderful—-

        You are the norm Lib!!!!!!!!

        oh yeah, you are a waaaay left Lib

        • Why Do You Asshole Keep Pressing My Button Go Catch Up With Your Crowd Little Punk Fern Don’t Play Nice With You Little Tea Bagging Bitches Haven’t You Learn That By Now Shoo Cockroach Shoo!!!

          • Actually, Fern the best way to deal with these robots, is to ignore them. They aren’t even fun to argue with as they have nothing to add to the dialogue. They are the “he who knows not and knows not he knows not…”

          • ALLLLAMERICAN

            FERN—– you are a c**t

          • Don’t be a child. There are many young adults who read these posts and your comment adds nothing to the conversation. ALLAMERICAN my arse.

          • highpckts

            Nice going! And the Dems spew hate? Take a look at yourself!!

          • old_blu

            I don’t know what you’re mad at Fern for, it was VP Biden that spanked your boy Ryan.

            A little hate in your life? Try going back to smoking weed and just leave the crack alone.

          • Now Fern i love reading your replys. it makes my day so much fun. As always your right on the button with all of your points. I have to tell you take when you talk about the GOP/Tea baggers i just have to laugh so very hard. Now calling some one a roach just took me over the top. Have a great day and yes let’s make sure our President win another term. Thank you and God bless America

      • Biden was rude! How about the four minutes Ryan usurped two minutes of Biden’s time and in the end Biden did not get to speak as much as Ryan.

      • highpckts

        According to the GOP the mainstream media is blatantly biased toward Obama!!

    • old_blu

      I saw that also, and was a little taken back by that too, I think they were saying Ryan was ahead by the time I left for work. WEIRD??

      • Same Old Whining Bunch That Said The Jobs7.8 Was Cooked Who Cares They Yet Called Romney And Ryan Out On All The Lying And Flip Flopping SCREW THEM!!!

        • old_blu

          I read something a minute ago that said. “When Repubilcans can’t brag, they whine”

    • sigrid28

      I saw that declaration on CNN. It is part of their new identity, as the news bureau that takes the Democrats to task, even over trivia, while glossing over fact-checks on the most outlandish Republican lies. There’s an aggressive and self-satisfied edge to this CNN position (it is not neutral), as if they found something to do that other news outlets were not doing: nitpicking Democrats. I used to watch them all the time. Now, I glance at the latest haggling, read the news ticker, and turn the channel. It feels like Fox News lite.

    • jvaljon1

      Paul….it all, and I do mean ALL—got bought by (Australian) Rupert Murdoch and his giant NewsCorp. I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember the National Enquirer, but if you are, you’ll notice that today’s “news” is very similar to what the Enquirer prints out. Here’s how the actual news used to be reported:

      1) What (happened; what are your sources [at least 2, please]/info?)…is THIS STORY about?
      2) When (date it as accurately as possible)
      3) Where (did it happen)
      4) Who (did it happen to…main individual in this story)
      5) Why (did it happen; your inf. all gathered together with your FACTS)

      EXAMPLE: The roller coaster dropped off the track (see pictures by AP and IP) yesterday (see today’s date on this piece) in London’s Amusement Park. It is the opinion of the Engineering Society, that….(this is only an opinion but the Engineers who built the coaster will work together to find out why this disaster occurred.

      This is why people reading papers years ago, used to be able to quote the stories and not get laughed out of whatever gathering they were quoting to! This is why teachers told students to source their assignments from the New York Times! This was back when the National Enquirer was a joke, only now grown people (instead of laughing out loud at its allegations) actually call it (the Enquirer, mind you; [wait for it, LOL!!]—) A FACT CHECK!!!

  • old_blu

    I think VP Biden schooled Ryan, and I’ll tell you why. This morning as I’m going through all the news I stopped on fake news for a moment they said ” when I was a kid I was taught to not interupt” so I guess it was okay for Romney, but not Biden.

    I feel better today.

    Obama/Biden 2012

    • What A Great Day This Time The Lies Stop Here At The Debates!! I Loved It When Joe Told Ryan It Time To Go, Let Them Guard Their Own Land, We Trained Them It’s Time To GO!!! LOL Good Morning My Friend!!! 🙂

      • Good morning, Fern, that was fantastic. There are some of us who don’t wish to keep sacrificing young people to defend a country that won’t defend themselves.

        • Good Morning Ms Maggie And What A Great Morning It Is!!! Joe Nail Ryan On All The Lies Left Him No Wiggle Room!!! LOL Joe Said You Wont Turn Into Jello Not On My Watch!!! Ryan Sucked The Water Down Trying To Keep Them Pants From Catching On Fire Cause Joe Was Right There Ready To Call Him Out On The Lies!!! LOL

    • For Republicans, what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander…

      • old_blu

        You are absolutely right about that, I used to pride myself on not voteing along party lines but the more I hear of their lies the more I might.

        • It takes great courage to change. Congratulations. Skip West

        • Although I would probably always vote Democrat, I think if there was a Democratic candidate like.. well any of the ones that ran in the Republican race this year, I would also change my party.

          • If the Democratic Party was confronted with a rich, lying manipulator that cited fake “studies” to promote his self-serving goals, we’d rip him apart, and THEN feed him to the Chicago Democrats.

            The Republicans are stuck with Romney because of their Corporate Nature.

            They’re top-down. The top dog makes the others roll over out of Party Loyalty.

            Democrats are infamous for not agreeing on everything.

    • bmnnoboz

      Exactly! As I saw in another comment somewhere on the net. It’s hilarious. The hypocrisy. That’s how you know Joe Biden handled the job! Obama himself needs to learn something. Instead of being polite and letting your opponents get away with blatant LIES and flip flops. Put the Joe Biden Truth KIBOSH on ’em.

      • We Are At War You Can Be Nice Later After You Stop The Lies And After The Election People Want To See A Strong Leader!! We Know Obama Is Kind But We’re At WAR!!! With Our Own People But War Just The Same!!! I Believe This Time Obama Will Be Ready Not That I Thought He Lost Late Time Cause All Romney Did Was Lie!! It Was Like Obama Debating A Whole New Person And That’s Not Fair Not Fair At All Change Yourself Into Another Person Who Know Nothing About Polices That He Was Running On !!! FOUL BALL!!!

      • DurdyDawg

        No matter how Obama would have handled the first debate he was going to be criticized.. I think he did what he did deliberately. not to be seen as a weakling but to see how much aggressiveness Romney was going to use. Ask yourself, In all of Obama’s speeches (with questions) how many times did he flub? How many times did he seem inadequate? How Romney acted and the praise he received can not be condemned when the opponent does the same thing come the next meeting. I think Romney will have his ass reamed come the next debate and if I’m wrong, if Obama wimps out again, then he may as well tell Michelle to start packing the bags because first and foremost, Americans wants a leader. I believe it’s in the bag.. A good amount of fire and brimstone. I just wish the questions weren’t pre-arraigned. Bring out those lies that were blatant.. Ask them both how they feel about women and the pill and watch Robme do his patented flip-flop..

    • neece00

      I thought that Ryan was very green and not really ready for prime time.

      • The Kid Not A Bad Speaker He Just Needs To Tell The Truth Stop Lying Stand Behind Your Polices And Stay There!! No Flip Flopping No Give Them The Soft Side Cause His Polices Are Just Like Them They Are IMMORAL!!

    • I kept seeing comments with exactly the same hypocrisy. It’s rude when Dems do it but it’s ok when Republicans do it..especially when they do it first.

      The most galling comment I heard last night was Ryan trying to teach Biden about bipartisanship. That crossed the line, I think.

      • That Was Pitiful Every Time Obama Put His Hand Out To Them They Either Slap It Away Or Spit On It!!! These Are Some Of The Lying Ass People I Ever Seen In My Life!!! They Need To Get The Hell Out Of Office Let’s Help Them Do Just That!!! VOTE!!!!

    • daves

      I am a strong Obama supporter but we all have to admit that the Vice President didn’t always tell the truth last night.

      BIDEN: “What we did is, we saved $716 billion and put it back, applied it to Medicare.”

      THE FACTS: Contrary to Biden’s assertion, not all the money cut from Medicare is going back into the program in some other way. The administration is cutting $716 billion over 10 years in Medicare payments to providers and using some of the money to improve benefits under the program. But most of the money is being used to expand health care coverage outside of Medicare.

      • Prove it Dave, where did you find that at? I would like to read it and I’m still voting Preident Obama and Biden

        • Just More Lying And Flip Flopping There’s No Proof Of What He Is Saying!!!

        • daves

          Do you really think that only Mr. Ryan lied?

          I tried adding the link but they blocked it. Go you yahoo news and look for the debate fact check. Other organizations have the fact checks also. CNN and MSNBC should.

          • jvaljon1

            Daves….who’s “they” ??

          • daves

            Whoever moderates the comments here. Are you able to post a link?

          • jvaljon1

            No, Dave. But thanks for the suggestion, anyway.  Maybe once I dump Yahoo I’ll be more able to put links through but right at this moment, no.  Still—-I’m (hopefully!) looking forward to tonight’s 2nd debate between the President and RobMe…

        • lana ward

          Fact checkers have found that alot of what Biden said in the debate isn’t true

          • jvaljon1

            Try a “direct quote” Lana; it works better that way!

          • lana ward

            This works for me, fact checkers found that alot of what Biden said ISN’T true. So he interupted Ryan with lies

          • jvaljon1

            Then they’re not fact-checkers, Lana….they’re just people who agree with you and their OPINIONS are the only facts that you ever see!  That’s sad….why not at least try WIKI? They will tell you where they get their facts from, also if they ARE facts as opposed to opinions!

      • politicalhack1

        I too am a strong Obama supporter, and a strong follower of the development of the ACA and of medicare. While in the senate, I heard republican senators repeatedly accuse democrats of cutting Medicare benefits. That just wasnt true. The budget was cut, but the benefits were not. Eric Holder and the Justice Department was turned loose on Medicare fraud which was frightful ( in one city alone, it averaged 500 million per year.) Secondly, as Obamacare expanded, hospital populations would increase, so hospitals agreed upon a reduction in payment per service. Finally, private insurance companies awarded stewardship of medicare advantage programs were given monies out of every medicare participant’s monthly premium, whether they participated in advantage programs or not……this was changed. With that money, the doughnut hole was partially closed and is working its way to be completely closed, preventative medicine procedures are paid at 100% of the Medicare approved amount, and enough money was deposited into the fund to increase its solvency for eight years. And, yes, there was still a little money left over to help pay for the beginning of Obamacare. While all the savings didnt go to Medicare, we’re still a lot better off than we were.

        • daves

          Yes, both democrats and republicans lie quite a bit.

    • rickcain2320

      One thing Ryan and Biden didn’t seem to bring up is that the tax cuts for the wealthy had an expiration date for a reason!
      They were supposed to be temporary in the first place, that’s how it got passed in the first place, with the assurance that its not permanent.

      • old_blu

        You my friend are absolutely right, and if they get in they would try and make it permanent, I think that is the main reason reason they are even trying to get in.

  • Goyboy

    There are two lines that the Obama campaign should be relentlessly slugging away with. If Biden had used them last night, they’d be headlines in this morning’s press. The Romney/Ryan economic plan, which treats the American people like they were pieces on a board game, manipulated by a couple of bored rich guys, is nothing more than:
    “Country Club Economics”
    And the Romney/Ryan plan to turn Medicare into a voucher program, which would render most seniors uninsurable, should be answered with:
    “Don’t Mess With Grandma”
    Can somebody please get these lines to Plouffe, or Axelrod, or somebody who makes language decisions.
    Thanks,
    Shaun Costello

    • It’s even more than that, the Repubs are trying to make the problem we have today with the haves and have nots even worse. In the presidential debate, Romney kept talking about letting parents choose which schools they want to send their kids to: this means that he would also like to turn our education system into a voucher system that would allow the haves to add to their vouchers and get the best medical coverage plans and send their kids to the best schools; while those that can just get by would have to rely on whatever value the voucher becomes. This could well mean that at some point, less fortunates could end up not being able to find an insurance plan they can afford even with their voucher; And their kids may be relegated to having to attend very marginal schools. This could well change the 99% vs 1% into the 90% vs 10% or even worse.

      • Independent: America’s schools were a source of pride. Sure they needed more money and more respect, but at least education was free. And, now, with charter schools getting government money, it is shafting the public school system.

        • I am no expert on charter schools but I do know public schools, having been a teacher and having sent 6 kids to public schools. I have always wanted to ask if charter schools are so great and get supported by public tax money why don’t we just make all the schools into charters? Anyone have an answer?

          • Mildred, I think they are planning on privatizing the entire school system. We have a privatized prison in this state and it is a mess. They are being questioned about number of prisoners who died and they had a fight club where prisoners were forced to fight until one was not conscious. They were making bets on it. Do you think I want our schools run by big busisness for the benefit of the bottom line? How do you think the Koch brothers would treat teachers?

            As a teacher, you know how many hours you spent on lessons and correcting papers. You know that your summer was spent of CEUs. You know how much money you spent out of your own pocket to purchase things for your classroom. God bless the teachers.

          • BDD1951

            Charter schools are essentially privatly owned and the district pays them to run the school. They do not pay their teachers as much as public schools, thus having less qualified teachers. A teacher with a Masters Degree can go into the private sector and earn much more money.

    • We All Should Email And Write Also Call About This Good Call Goyboy!!! I Will Soon As I Go On Break!!!

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        “WHEN” you go on break??????

        Your at “WORK” and on this blog—–

        WHAT A LIB—-you should be FIRED!!!!!!!!

        • SCREW YOU LITTLE TEA BAGGING FAG!! Get You A JOB And Stop Talking To Me!!!

          • ALLLLAMERICAN

            You low life!!!!

            YOU SHOULD BE FIRED!!!!!!!!!

          • BDD1951

            Fern, I don’t know what we would do without you.

        • highpckts

          You should wake up! I guess you are a totally hard working person who NEVER takes breaks because you are soooo dedicated to your job! Give me a break! So ” holier than thou”! You are so great, I bet you can hardly stand to be around normal people!!

          • BDC_57

            he’s a little teeny bober lol

          • BDC_57

            he probly don’t work he still lives mommy and daddylol.

        • ALLLLAMERICAN: Wow ! You got her for the CROOK that she is !!
          And she got mad at you, the asshole, and called you “TEA BAGGING FAG” !!
          I tell you, Fern Wood Cock is a real MORONIC IDIOT ASSHOLE !!
          I actually think that, not only is she FALSELY claiming to be a NURSE (can you imagine? Her left alone with patients?), but I think she is one of the leaders of the “Occupy Wall Street TALIBAN Movement”
          The size and weight of Fern Wood Cock’s BRAIN is as follows:
          SIZE: WEIGHT:

    • goyboy, Ryan said in the debate that the younger people could opt out of Social Security for a private investment plan. Social Security needs those taxes to survive. The entire idea is to privatize everything: Schools, prisons, the Post Office, Medicare, Social Security, etc. The big corporations are probably salivating. The thing to remember, those corporations are for profit.

  • BXD

    The media declared a tie last night but that is not what I heard. Biden talked of facts and simply corrected Ryan on a few things…so tell me how was this a tie? Who did the media poll (CNN)? I am dissapointed in CNN; they let their personal views spill over!

    • There Was Not No Tie Biden Won Hands Down!!! Cause He Won With The Truth No Made Up Crap No Flip Flopping And Lying He Went Old School Truth On Ryan!!! And That Only Makes He The WINNER!!!

    • rothgar

      Winner or Loser is real simple and I’m using the words of Karl Rove (and Mudcat Saunders).

      If you are defending explaining you are losing and the part that I heard had Ryan explaining.

      Biden had short, terse responses for Ryans’ falsehoods. Zingers I think they are called.

  • middleclasstaxpayer

    Facts DO matter! Biden was condecending, rude & obnoxious….I guess it was the only thing he could muster in his “weak attempt” to convince us he was right. Even my cousin, a rabid democrat, was offended!

    • Did you enjoy Romney’s condescending, rude & obnoxious behavior during the first debate? Your cousin should consider rabies shots before it is too late for him…

      • middleclasstaxpayer

        No matter your opinion of Romney, he treated the president with courtesy & respect, unlike Biden’s rude behavior. If Biden was confident of his position, he wouldn’t need to resort to smirking & nervous laughter. He made a fool of himself (and his party).

        • ALLLLAMERICAN

          that’s the Lib way—-

          loud—-
          rude—-
          obnoxious—–
          Cover up the LIES!!!!

        • grammyjill

          not even close

      • Dominick, The best way to deal with the whackadoodles on this board is to ignore them. You will be unable to impart any wisdom to them and they don’t add anything to the boards.

    • old_blu

      Yeah Ryan got spanked that’s for sure, I hope your cousin gets the shots he needs.

    • oldtack

      Oh my goodness gracious middleclasstaxpayer did you get miffed again? We must be more cognizant of your tender Id. We don’t want you to go into one of your blue funks. Take your Midol and a good cup of coffee and I’m sure you will feel much better.

    • BDD1951

      He was not condescending. You probably were offended because you didn’t like facts being thrown in Ryan’s face.

      • middleclasstaxpayer

        Liberal of course will view Biden favorably, but Independents and the undecided might see things differently. Just keep digging you hole, and we’ll cover you over when it’s done.

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        They were all lies—-
        He was just louder and MORE obnoxious!!!!

        How bout the very obvious lies about Libya???

        We know that Ambassador Chris Stevens was begging for more security.

        We know that Ambassador Stevens’ personally recorded his fears and his recognition that he needed more security in his personal journal (that was found after his murder)

        We know that Obama was AWARE that Stevens’ requests for more security had been denied BY his administration.

        THESE ARE PROVEN FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

        It is irresponsible to lie about these people that were killed!!!!

      • BDD, as a former high-school debator, that is the way debates are supposed to go.

      • BDC_57

        they said when i was younger the truth hurts. look at the tea baggers crying.

    • awakenaustin

      I don’t believe you have a cousin who is a Democrat. If you did, you wouldn’t talk to him or her. You would think he or she was a moron or an idiot, as you have not infrequently described liberals and Democrats. VP Biden couldn’t convince you the Earth is round as opposed to flat. In much the same manner, it is unlikely Rep. Ryan could convince me of anything beyond his ignorance and his complete disregard for human costs of the policies he advocates. I understand Rep. Ryan’s political philosophy and his political positions on the major issues facing this nation. I am voting against for those reasons. I don’t give a whit about his debate performance, because that is what debates are – “performances”. The reason Independants and other undecideds are influenced by debates is that most of them know almost nothing about political issues and they are influenced by form more than substance. If a person has not made up his or her mind how to vote at this point then he or she simply hasn’t been paying attention. You didn’t seem so offended by Mitt Romney’s rude, obnoxious and condescending behavior. Why was that? Maybe I should conclude that the gentleman in both debates lost?

      • BDC_57

        He lies like his famos leaders romney and rayan lie.Obama/Biden 2012

      • awaken: You are disqualified (did it to yourself !) from posting your views for having said previously “Anyway, who cares about the facts?”
        Even BEFORE you admitted that, I already knew you (and so many others in this cesspool) could not care less about facts.

        • awakenaustin

          You need to read more carefully. Then find yourself a dictionary. Then carefully re-read again.

    • It’s pretty hard not to be rude and obnoxious when your debate opponent is spewing one lie and distortion after another; Biden was trying his best to let people know that what they were listening to was the second best snakeoil rendition that probably ever seen; Romney’s snakeoil salesmanship rendition topped any other I’ve ever seen. If you believed one word lying Ryan said, you’re in for a very big disappointment…their both totally cluelesss about how to fix ANYTHING!

      • middleclasstaxpayer

        I’ll address just one lie on Biden’s part…..JFK, Reagan & G W Bush ALL reduced taxes AND tax revenues WENT UP dramatically! It’s already in the historical data available to anyone. How can THAT be characterized as a lie by your hero Biden??

        • ALLLLAMERICAN

          AND obvious lies about Libya???

          What a DISGRACE

      • In a real debate, you are supposed the challenge things your oponents says. This wasn’t a tea party.

    • DukeDacat

      One thing for sure, you Mitwits…. are always good for our entertainment

      • middleclasstaxpayer

        Fortunately for us, it is liberals who are doing the “entertaining.” Every time you folks let the undecided voters see jokers like Biden, with his pompous attitude and inane smirking, you educate people as to just how out of touch you are in todays’ world. Biden’s rude and callous behavior, interrupting a discussion 82 times in only 90 minutes, says more about his (and liberal’s) lack of character than all the ads we can run. Thanks for your support…keep up the good (no, GREAT) work!

        • grammyjill

          He did not interupt 82 times. Only 4. You shouldn’t listen to that whiny child Rance Pissant.
          Question: Romney says he wants to build 15 new navy ships but, Ryan said last night that they are going to cut the navy by 35%. Who is going to operate these ships?

          • middleclasstaxpayer

            Your hearing aid must have been off…..most news organizations, including the NY Times, reported the 82 interruptions by Biden, an uncouth, rude & callous individual. I don’t care who he was speaking with, 82 interruptions in 90 minutes is a clear sign of a very self-centered, boring and uneducated person Actually the PERFECT liberal example!!!!!.

          • grammyjill

            ok you listen to the whiny child. you didn’t anwser my question.

          • BDC_57

            they don’t have any facts to back them up so they will never anwser you. they get ther facts off faux news.

          • Those are not facts that they get off faux news. Those are reinforcements for tea partiers.

          • middleclasstaxpayer

            The answer is quite simple…..look at modern aircraft…we only need 2 experience operators (pilot/co pilot) to fly even the largest. So it is with battleships and other Navy craft…very few seamen are needed to pilot even our largest Navy ships. And in near future our ship will become smaller, faster and capable of delivering sophisticated weapons without the need for large crews…so we CAN DO MORE WITH LESS….Romney is correct and is watchful of a volatile middle east, while Obama believes everyone now loves us, leaves his guard way down, and the result is the tragic loss of life in Libya, which Obama now tries to pass of to the State Dept, claiming “we didn’t know they requested more security.” He knew, but was too busy campaigning to worry himself over “the little people.”

          • grammyjill

            you know you’re an ass, right?

          • middleclasstaxpayer

            I know it’s painful to hear the truth, isn’t it?????

          • grammyjill

            ok. I heard a little truth for you.Sensata in Freeport Il. is going to close on Nov.5. Bain made to workers train the Chinese girls that will have those jobs in China starting Nov.6. These girls will make 90 cents an hour and will live in dorms, 4 to a room in a fenced compound so they can’t leave ever. They will be working 12 hour days. So, everyone that currently works at Sensata is having their jobs sent to China, and the guy that owns 51% of the Sensata stock is going to make millions on this deal. Do I have to tell you that Mitt Romney is that 51% owner?

          • middleclasstaxpayer

            You are correct that “jobs” are being moved overseas IN ALL INDUSTRIES, and further, that in past 3 1/2 years (since Obama became president) over 600,000 jobs have been lost to US workers. However, knowing that the US currently has the HIGHEST CORP TAX RATE in the world, this is understandable. To exist, corporations have to MAKE A PROFIT FOR THEIR INVESTORS…if they don’t, these same firms will GO OUT OF BUSINESS, and ALL JOBS WILL BE LOST. In Sensata’s case 170 jobs are being lost now, but the firm is still in business, sparing millions of US workers in the firm and related companies who supply the raw materials, etc. And Romney LEFT THE FIRM over 10 years ago, so he is not in charge nor is he responsible. However, Romney IS responsible for helping to start about a dozen firms many years ago that currently employ amost ONE MILLION WORKERS. Firms like Dominos Pizza with 145,000 workers, and others like Staples (90,000 jobs), Toys R us (over 100,000 woorkers) etc. WORST PART…Obama wants to INCREASE TAXES ON CORPORATIONS FURTHER, making it MORE LIKELY that MORE JOBS WILL MOVE OVERSEAS! Obama is your man….pass on your concern to HIM!

          • middle: Don’t confuse these MORONS with facts !!

          • middleclass: Not only was grammy’s hearing aid off; her brain has been on OFF for a long time (perhaps only when she posts here?)

          • Grammy, notice how he proposes some big expenditures, like more tax cuts for the top 2% , bigger defense spending budget and he’s going to build 15 more battleships? Where is the money coming from? Killing Big Bird won’t generate that much revenue. When they needed battleships for Viet Nam, they raided Social Security. Hmmm.

          • grammyjill

            Yes, but at the debate Ryan also said they plan to cut the Navy by 3/4th. Who is going to operate these new ships? Are they going to be outsourced?

  • carolknows

    way to go joe..ryan’s an in-the-past misogenist who lied thru the whole debate..press said what??? tie??? lie!!!

  • foolsdance

    Thank you Joe! You spanked that wimp and pointed out his lies and incongruities beautifully. You the man!

  • rippper

    Republicans view on debates.
    Let’s see. Romney interupts, talks over moderater and Obama, that’s okay. Biden does it, not okay. Romney smirks at president,that’s okay. Biden smirks at Ryan, not okay.
    Romney becomes another person, a phoney, that’s okay. Biden is himself, not okay.
    Romney stands and listens, takes notes, is in control,that’s okay. Obama stands and listens, takes notes, is in control, not okay.
    Now, there is a simple explanation as to why the republicans react the way they do when it comes to debates. They don’t like it when the dems push back. Same old thing. They can dish it out, but they can’t take it.

    • Yes That Was Fine With The Thugs But Let Biden Do It Then It’s a Problem!! Share Me!!! Joe Didn’t Turn Into Another Person With The Non Stop Lies!!! They Know Ryan Lost!! Wolfing Down Water Trying To Put Them Pants Out Should Give Everybody A Clue Who Won!!! LOL

      • So that’s why he was drinking so much water. LOL

        • Yes The Lying King Pants Was About To Catch On Fire!!! LOL

      • libragirl61

        Ryan was using steroids to go off on Joe!

    • thelonegunmanX

      I’m wondering if you guys even so much as watched the Presidential Debate? Obama made no eye contact with Romney the majority of the debate and looked down at his notes whenever addressed by Romney. Obama then proceeds to take 10 seconds to explain how he should still have 10 seconds of his point left (interrupting the moderator in the process mind you). Obama also smirked almost the entire time with a smug look of absolute disinterest in the debate. Of course either side is going to push back and get a little vitriolic in their platform, but you don’t see Romney spending his campaign money on a borderline laughable ad accusing the opposition of trying to kill Big Bird (c’mon guys really?). I’m all about some respectful, logical discourse but If you’re going to point out flaws in candidates the least you can do is attempt to be objective.

      • Yes And We Are Pass That One We Are Working On The New Debate Where Joe Might Be Arrested For Child Abuse!!! LOL You Know The One Where Joe Biden Went All Hardball On Paul Ryan!!! LOL

        • thelonegunmanX

          Most people are in agreement that it was closer to a tie than anything else…

      • awakenaustin

        We will see who won the debates when the voting is over.

      • thelon, Be a little honest here. I watched both debates and I will agree that President Obama was not a good debator, but at no time did I seem him smirk.

    • libragirl61

      Guess this country might like bullies better than a civilized debator!Didnt Romney Bully some kids in high school? Maybe he’ll do the same to the middle class!

      • DurdyDawg

        Oh, you can bet on that but first he (and the lyin’ king) must first starve out all moochers, put the sick six foot under and toss the elderly out on the street just so they can have enough military strength to create a couple more profitable wars.

  • foolsdance

    then why won’t your candidates state facts instead of outright lies??? Ryan: “already worked a couple of times.” Fact: um, no, never been done before.

  • I think bite me know as biden look like he ways out to lunch and keep talking about nothing as far as RYAN he did a good job it was 75 to 25 for RYAN go go we need a new pres

  • Now that was what a debate looks like Obama!!! Hopefully Biden will sit in with you during your next prep session. Townhalls are different. But you have to pour it on this time.

  • totenkatz

    I agree facts matter so when is this administration going to start giving us some facts about why our health care cost are going up under their plan, why the Senate hasn’t proposed must less passed a budget in three years as is required under the constitution, why the President can ignore and break the laws passed by congress just because he doesn’t believe in them, and why this administration has a war on coal. Their efforts have failed over the last 4 years and yes they have failed compared to what was promised and why should I believe they will do any better with four more years; yes facts matter. And most important what happen in Libya and why did this administration say it was linked to a video when it clearly wasn’t and that was know within hours of the attack according to State Department personnel and records. I’m not saying that Romney and Ryan are providing all the facts since they aren’t but neither are Obama and Biden. But do we really expect politicians to provide all the facts; they very seldom if ever do when they are running for office. And stop the name calling and using the word liar as it could be used for the President and Vice President too.

    • Have you even taken a minute to think that one reason that healthcare costs are going up at the moment is because Obamacare is not fully implemented? The law has forced the insurance companies to provide coverages for people that they were able to exclude from their plans before, but the part of the law that give insureds a level playing field wont be in place until 2014: that’s requiring everyone to have insurance. Right now, millions of still uninsured are showing up at ERs and doctor’s offices who can’t pay for the care they get. So guess what? Hospitals, doctors, labs, you name it, are still padding their bills so that people who have insurance end up reimbursing them for the money they lose treating people who can’t pay. And sadly, some of those bills are high…uninsureds get serious diseases like cancer, diabetes, meningitis and so on, some of their bills are hundreds of thousands of dollars which they can’t pay…so guess how much some hospitals are padding their bills. My grandson recently needed six-eight stitches removed that he’d gotten playing soccer…guess what the ER wanted to charge to remove six stitches? $800. This is probably something that should have cost may $50 but they wanted $800. Hopefully, when everyone is required to have some form of insurance, some government agency will ensure that healthcare providers stop padding their bills. If that happens, doctor, lab, hospital and other healthcare provider’s costs will come down to some level of reasonableness and with that, insurance companies will drop their premiums.

      • totenkatz

        You really believe what you wrote here? Why go to the ER to remove stitches. Heck I can remove stitches and have done it a few dozen times. Learned how to do it and even put in stitches in the Army. Yep stitched up a few soldiers too, not a pretty scar but hey I’m not a doctor.

      • Does he not think healthcare might have gone up without the Affordable Care Act? Maybe, it won’t go up as much as it is in place that insurance companies have to pay 80% of premiums in healthcare instead of stockholders. Most of the ACA will not go into effect until 2014. Some things that have been initiated are: coverage for pre-existing conditions, more affordable drugs for seniors, kids staying on their parent’s plan until 25.

      • Independent1: If you really believe all that crap, …. YOU should be the one to get your head “stitched”…. LOL !!

    • On your silly budget issue: why in the world would Obama waste his time creating a budget when he knows full well that with all the nitwits in the House, there’s no way any budget he created would get passed. And given the GOP’s absolute determination to block anything he’s wanted to try to get the economy moving again, there’s no way a compromise could be reached…it would be a total waste of time! And Bush and the rubberstamp GOP proved for at least 6 years that budgets are a sham: under Bush, the Whitehouse refused to include war costs in their budget, which probably amounted to at least 50% of our annual costs to run the government, yet whatever budget Bush created, the GOP congress would just say: Yes Master! How high do you want us to jump? and they’d rubberstamp his budget absolutely no questions asked…it was a total farce. And just another thought: balanced budgets are for homeowners and busnesses, they’re absolutely not for federal governments. Requiring that federal budgets be balanced only turns governing into a Rob Peter to Pay Paul exercise. Let’s take an example: In the year that hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, the previous October when Bush created his budget, there was no way for him to know that America would be hit by such a disaster. Had we had a balanced budget amendment, who do you suggest should have been robbed to pay for the Billions that the government had to spend to help fix the Katrina disaster? Should he have cut the fed subsidies for medicaid even more so more needy people could suffer to pay for fixing New Orleans and Mississippi and elsewhere? What group or projects should have had to suffer?? The answer is everyone in the U.S. should be pitching in to fix the damage Katrina made, and the only way you can do that; Congress should not be the ones to pick and choose who gets screwed.

      • latebloomingrandma

        My sentiments exactly! A balanced budget amendment for a federal gov’t would be a disaster. What would happen if an act of war occurred? It’s fine to put a balanced budget in place as a framework, but it can’t be written in stone. Not if we still want to be a world leader.

        • Late, there is too much yammering about a balanced budget and the deficit. Suppose you are deep in debt and you inherit a house that has a leaking roof. You can let the roof continue to pour water into the house and eventually destroy the house or you can borrow money and fix the roof. You will be deeper in debt, but now that the roof is fixed you can concentrate on paying the debts.

          Obama inherited a leaking economy. He had to fix the leak and he did. There are people who are supposed to help him but they fight him. We were leaking 750,000 jobs a month and have had 31 months of straight job growth. Things are going slowly and job growth is not where it is supposed to be. Think of how things would work much better if we had a congress that would work together for the benefit of the country, instead of the party.

      • totenkatz

        President Obama had a Democratically controlled House and Senate his first two years in office and still had a Democratically controlled Senate after that and only one budget submitted. And if you knew the budget process and the constitution you would understand that it doesn’t matter which party controls the Senate or the White House. The constitution requires that THE SENATE submit a budget.

        • toten, Look up the word, filibuster. Then research how many times it was used in history compared to this last four years. It doesn’t matter the majority when you have a quirk that allows one person to call for a super majority to pass anything.

        • DukeDacat

          amd so, have you ever heard of the guy named…. Phil A Buster, who seems to dictate what happens in the Senate?

          • totenkatz

            Yep

        • awakenaustin

          The Constitution of the U.S. of A. does NOT require the Senate to submit a budget. In fact it does not require Congress to propose a budget. It may do so, but it isn’t required. Cite me to the place in the Constitution where it says otherwise or stop repeating this nonsense. As a matter of practice Presidents have historically proposed a budget for the operation of the U.S. Government.

        • Toten, even with a Democratically control house and senate, he was hamstrung because they used the filibuster. One man can even make it that the vote has to be a super majority. Go back to the actual transcripts and count how many times the filibuster was used. then research history and see how many times it had been used in the past.

          • totenkatz

            Nope doesn’t fly President Obama had a super majority in both houses until the special election in Massachusetts. Besides every President has to deal with the filibuster and does. Both sides use it and it doesn’t matter the amount of times they use it.

        • totenkatz: These people you are writing to, with REASON on your side, do not let facts stand in their way!!
          You want proof of that? I just confronted this useful idiot (awakenaustin) who said (read my post above): “But hey, who cares what the facts are.”

      • FredAppell

        It’s no use arguing with people who deny history. They tend to believe that history has a liberal bend to it. It’s the Great Liberal Conspiracy. To bad they refuse to acknowledge that America has historically done much better economically under liberal policies. Anyone ever hear of the New Deal? If totenkatz is a real baby boomer then he would know that his parents did better under a Democrat with a strong central government.

        • Fred: Come on !
          It’s you SOCIALISTS who deny history.
          Socialism has been a DISASTER wherever it has been tried.

    • I’m responding to your nonsense issues as I read and it’s becoming clear that you’ve been brainwashed by Faux News. You think that Obama has failed. Failed at what? Why is it you right-wing lovers (just like lying Ryan) throw out statements with no facts to back them up. Bush let 9/11 happen on his watch (remember the CIA told him an attack was coming but he ignored it.) and he didn’t even care enough to keep up the search and get bin Laden. Obama got him as he promised, he didn’t fail. Bush negotiated the auto bailout and despite the GOP’s best efforts to let the auto industry go bankrupt, Obama followed through and not only saved the auto industry but also saved over one million jobs and probably kept the GOP from creating their 2nd depression (they created the one in the 1930s); And as a kicker, Obama recovered 92 billion in tax dollars that would have been lost if the industry had gone broke like nitwit Romney wanted; Obama didn’t fail us. Obama promised he’d get us out of Iraq and wind down the Afghan war; We’ve been out of Iraq for quite some time and the Afghan war is winding down as promised..he didn’t fail. He promised to cut the deficit which he hasn’t been able to follow thorugh on primarly because of obstructionism of the GOP: they’ve intentionally let severl jobs bills he submitted languish without votes which has slowed job creation, but there have been 31 straight months of job growth and the 114,000 jobs created in September are more jobs than were created during any 3 month period during Bush’s 8 years in office; And the stock market has more than doubled since Obama took office which has at least allowed my 401k to come back to alevel that may support me for a few more years…and this after Bush created an economic disaster. So anyway, just exactly what did Obama fail at? I don’t think you can think of one thing that wasn’t hampered by the GOP’s every effort to make him fail. Smarten up! Stop listening to Faux News.

      • totenkatz

        Faux News, right wing lovers, lyin Ryan, nitwit Romney??? How old are you 11? I bet you believe Roosevelt let the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor too just so America would have a reason to go to war. The US Government has thousand of worthless GM stock, paid too much for it and will never get our money back. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat and got it in a great deal President Obama pushed through the congress that we the tax payers paid for. Remember this, any President can save any business if he/she is willing to spend the tax payers money, it doesn’t take a genius to do. It takes a genius and great President to do it without costing the tax payer a lot of money and driving up the debt. I won’t discuss Iraq and Afghanistan with you since it’s obvious you really don’t understand the implications of what is happening in Iraq and will continue to happen and how President Obama dropped the ball there and is doing the same in Afghanistan. Again any President can end a war it’s how you end it that matters or have you forgot what happen in Southeast Asia when we left there.

        • grammyjill

          The money for the auto bailout as well as the bank bailout has ALL been paid back with interest.

          • Well, AIG hasn’t paid their back. The bank bailout happened under the Bush Administration.

          • grammyjill

            Yea, but they can’t use anything Obama has done against him.

          • BDC_57

            yeah rayan said a auto plant went out of bis. because of obama . the truth was the plkant went out of bis. in 2008 and he wasn’t in office yet. the auto plant was in janesvlle wi.

          • BDC_57

            Yeah they make up things on Obama, cause they can’t anything on him.

          • grammyjill

            They keep saying broken promises. I don’t get that. Every President promises a bunch of crap when they are running. Most of the time they don’t do any of it. This one has done most of it.

          • totenkatz

            Are you nuts, no it hasn’t?

          • grammyjill

            Yes, it has. Don’t you watch or listen to any news besides fox or rush? The auto bailout was paid back in full as of last Jan. and the bank bailout was paid back this past summer. That was on my local news, three different stations.

          • totenkatz

            No they haven’t it’s all a shell game with the federal government owning stock in GM and Alley Bank as well as GM using a loan from the federal government to pay back the bailout loan.

        • totenkatz: This guy who calls himself “Independent1” is anything but an “Independent”.
          He is just another useful idiot, Obama unconditional lackey, of the many that use this cesspool to congratulate each other. (“Wow! Well said!”; “I agree!”; “Wow, you should run for President”) DUH !!!

    • I’ve got one more point to make, your silly, typical GOP nonsense comments have really riled me up: I can’t afford to let Romney and Ryan create another disasterous 4 years like Bush’s disasters 8 years: Romney and Ryan keep spitting out the total nonsense of tax cuts creating 12 million jobs…these are beyond fairy tales their projections are total nonsense. Bush gave the rich the biggest tax cuts they’ve seen in decades and his administration was barely able to create 3,000,000 jobs in 8 years; much less 12 million in 4..it’s absurd. And a study was done back around 2005 which showed that the stock market’s performance during the years when a GOP administration is in office is absolutely abysmal..you can make a better return putting your money in savings account. The NY Times found that during the 35 years that we had a Republican president, the annual stock market return was less than .5%. This means that had you invested $10,000 just after the GOP created stock market crash in 1929, using the stock market performance during those 35 years, your $10,000 would have turned into $11,700; a whopping gain of 1,700 over 35 years. How long could you live on that in retirement? In contrast, the Times found that the market return during the 40 years that a Dem was in office was close to 10; this means that the $10,000 invested in 1929 would have grown to over $300,000; a gain of over #290,000 ..now I could live pretty well in retirement on that kind of money. So if you have any hopes of a somewhat comfortable retirement..you don’t want a republican in the Whitehouse.

      • totenkatz

        NY TIMES!! You quote the NY Times, now that’s silly. And you are blind to any thoughts outside Democratic talking points. I’m a baby boomer and one thing I learned way back in the late 60s that was reinforced in the 70s and even more true today. You can spin statistics almost anyway you wish. I don’t believe them and I judge an administration by its action not by its words and this administration hasn’t lived up to its words. I never vote a straight party ticket, but I’m sure you do.

  • Thank you, thank you million times Uncle Joe. You have made us all proud. You stood up for elders (my mum appreciate it very much), when it came time to discuss about medicare, medicaid and social security. She has been assured that you are there to defend them and not Ryan who danced around the issues and all the time talked about “young generation like him” as if the elders are interested to hear on that!

    • DurdyDawg

      They’d better be interested because it speaks volumes.. What their not telling us old s.s. recipients is that once FDIC is eliminated and turned over to private investments (remember 401K where you couldn’t start collecting until age 71?) anyway, once they eliminate s.s. tax, what’s left in the kitty will dwindle quickly because there will be no more money coming in and within 5 to 10 years it will go bankrupt.. THAT’S what their not telling us oldsters, so if this comes into effect you’d best prepare to die within a decade because with no more income and privatized medical care, you’ll quickly go down like the dinosaur the GOP sees us as..

  • dellmartin

    The republicans have never let a little thing like the truth get in the way of their pontificating… why start now?

  • ObozoMustGo

    That debate and Biden’s childish behavior reminded me of an old saying from Proverbs:

    If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet. – Proverbs 29:9

    Clearly, Biden was raging and laughing the whole night. Then again, we all knew he was a fool anyway.

    Have a nice day!

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” –Joe Biden on Barack Obama

    • ALLLLAMERICAN

      Good One!!!! I like that

      • ObozoMustGo

        Thanks. Remember…………….

        Obozo lied, Americans died

        Have a nice day!

        “Blaming a 2-bit film for radical islamic violence is like blaming forks for obesity” – ObozoMustGo

    • DukeDacat

      Here we go again Obozo, COPYand PASTE, COPYand PASTE, COPYand PASTE, COPYand PASTE, whew. what a lot work

    • OMG: LOVED your (so true !!) Biden The Clown quote !!
      Just shows you the complete asshole that the guy is ….

  • I watched the debate last night and thought both of them did a good job. Biden certainly did a much better job than Pres. Obama. However, this morning on TV all the Republicans are saying that the moderator favored Biden. I don’t remember Democrats on TV saying that the moderator favored Romney during the first presidential debate. It was clear Romney was much better than
    Obama that night. I thought the moderator did a great job, and I don’t think she favored either one of them. Biden just did a better job with the facts. Both of them got some of the facts wrong according to the fact checkers.

    • It’s always easy to debate when you have total disregard for the facts and can blatantly lie based on a predebate script that you’ve memorized.

  • lana ward

    Biden was rude and obnoxious, he interupted Ryan 82 times. Ryan didn’t interupt Biden, he waited till he was finished to refute him. He was a rude old buzzard, Ryan was a polite young man. Biden looked like the cat in Alice in Wonderland with that big ugly fake smile, I hope he disappears like that cat too!! ROMNEY_RYAN!!!

    • Ed

      Did you happen to watch Romney in the first debate?

      • Romney’s disrespect for President Obama was palpable….then when Biden returns the favor and calls Lyan out for his blatant and numerous lies they decide it is now not OK to interrupt and be “rude”…
        whatever! – OBAMA/BIDEN win and then we can be done with the nonsense that pervades the Republican party…

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        Are YOU kidding MEEE!!!!!

        Romney DID NOT ACT LIKE THAT IDIOT BIDEN!!!!!!
        How embarrassing!!!!!

        And that STUPID smirk—-

    • BDD1951

      82 times?? Pull your head out of the sand. When soneones lying you call them out. Where did you come up with that number. There was only 90 minutes of debate and you say he interrupted 82 times?? Jeez.

      • lana ward

        Yes, 82 times, that’s what’s how many times the big mouth buzzard interupted

        • I keep hearing that too but 82 times? what I heard was Joe interrupting Ryan only when he was using republican exaggerated rhetoric and flat out lies. so Lana you are saying that Ryan flat out lied 82 times? I only counted 20 or so times he lied maybe you get your info from the wrong source.

          • lana ward

            Ryan didn”t lie, the rude buzzard interrupted to stop Americans from hearing the truth. ALL of the Dems interrupt to suppress the truth. –Have you ever thought it just could be your perfect gay President and Biden are liars?

          • ALLLLAMERICAN

            YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!

            It’s the drunk Biden that was lieing!!!!!

            Are you kidding me—-they didn’t know anybody asked for more security in Libya????
            We know that Obama himself was AWARE that Stevens’ requests for more security had been denied BY his administration:

            The Obama Administration, has been proven time and again to be serial liars and beyond reproach.

            We know that not only did Obama NOT give Ambassador Chris Stevens more security as he had repeatedly asked for,

            but that he actually CUT Steven’s security prior to the attack on the compound which led to his murder and to the murders of three other Americans:

            The evidence is so overwhelming that this is a lie and a cover-up that far exceeds

            Two-hundred and thirty documented security incidents in Libya.

            That’s right: 230 documented security incidents prior to Obama pulling out the security team that could have saved Ambassador Stevens’ and the other Americans lives:

            Obama said— “It was the video’s fault” lie may now officially rest in hell where the lie originated in the first place.
            Contrary to the Obama administration’s lie that was repeatedly stated at the very top levels of his administration,
            THERE WAS NO “SPONTANEOUS UPRISING.”
            THERE WERE NO CROWDS.
            THERE WAS NO PROTEST.
            And THE COMPOUND WAS QUIET UNTIL INTERRUPTED BY THE LOUD NOISES OF THE ATTACK ITSELF.

            It was a lie from the devil all along.

            It’s not enough to say that Obama administration officials such as Susan Rice, Jay Carney and yes, even Hillary Clinton, were incompetent.
            They lied to the American people, and they lied over and over again. And when Obama gave his speech at the United Nations fully TWO WEEKS after the attack, he not only refused to use the word “terrorist,” but AGAIN deceitfully referred to the stupid video. And referred to it SIX TIMES.

            Which is to say it is now a documented fact that the Obama administration from Obama on down lied to the American people. And are now trying to cover up their lies.
            We know that Ambassador Chris Stevens was begging for more security. We know that Ambassador Stevens’ personally recorded his fears and his recognition that he needed more security in his personal journal (that was found after his murder):

          • grammyjill

            Then why did Chris Stevens go to Bengazi when he should have been in Tripolli? Anwser that one dickhead.

          • grammyjill: You are RIGHT !!
            IT WAS CHRIS STEVEN’S FAULT !!
            …. and NOT this Administration’s ….
            Man, you and your fellow useful IDIOTS on this cesspool called The National Memo are soooo STUPID it’s EMBARRASSING !!
            Stop “helping” Obozo !!
            OMG and montanabill: Did you hear this woman’s argument ??!!

          • ALLLLLAMERICAN: You well know that Biden (AND his boss) ONLY lied when he moved his lips ….
            Those were the ONLY times ….

          • Edward, I saw Biden watching the clock and when it was his turn to speak, he tried to speak. Biden made his points in far less words than Ryan.

          • Maggie, Edward and Lana: And Obozo and Biden The Clown ONLY lie …..
            …. when their lips move ….

          • grammyjill

            I just saw Rance Previs whining on tv about that 82 times.

        • BDD1951

          Who counted? Did you sit there and count? Did you even see the debate or are you repeating Faux news.

          • lana ward

            4 states that were leaning Obama are now in the toss up catagory. Michigan, Pennsylvania and 2 others

          • Justin Napolitano

            Lana, the only thing that is a tossup is your ability to comprehend.

          • Justin: Ha, ha !!
            Funny that YOU, of all people, would say that about lana …. or anybody else !!

      • BDD, I timed both of them. When Joe Biden interrupted, it was his turn to speak. I would just ignore people like lana. She does not know how to exchange ideas, just open her mouth and words fall out. Something I do not have in common with lana – I never went of welfare.

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        Do you have any idea what the obama care is???

        If I was YOU—I would be worrying if he got in other 4-years

        I hope you don’t get sick to much or the Obamacare-Austerity Care will submit you to counseling for END –OF–LIFE—NO MORE CARE FOR YOU!!!!

        Obama’s Austerity Care ~ Seniors Must Submit To Counseling For End-Of-Life.

        YOU might want to check it out!!!!

        • Justin Napolitano

          Allll, there is only one way to respond to you, you are a fucing liar. Do not make shi* up, some of us are going to call you out.

        • grammyjill

          Drag your head out of your butthole. You’re suffering from lack of oxygen.

          • BDC_57

            The more I listen to Lana and Alll the smarter I feel.

          • grammyjill

            yea, me too!

          • grammy and BDC-57: YOU? SMART?!!
            In your dreams !!
            You are as “smart” as Fern Woodford ….
            P.D. – You might think that’s an insult; it’s NOT. It’s just a statement of fact ….

          • BDC_57

            I got more brains in my little finger then you got in your head because know the facts that your moron leader romney is a big liar. If you guys wou7ld go back to all speeces romney did then go listen to the debate you see all his lies. but no you don’t listen to the truth.

          • grammyjill

            Ok statement of fact. You have got your head shoved somewhere that the sun don’t shine. You should probably pull it out as you are suffering from lack of oxygen to your brain!

    • ALLLLAMERICAN

      That’s exactly what I said—-Biden WAS soooo Rude and obnoxious and over bearing!!!!

      I couldn’t even watch it all, I wanted to punch him. I don’t know how Ryan kept his cool.

      And that STUPID smiling like he’s off his rocker of something.

      Biden thought he was on that stage to put on a show—IDIOT

      • concernedgran

        It was ok for Romney to bully his way thru the first debate, talking over both the President and the moderator, but when Joe Biden called out Ryan, he was rude, obnoxious and arrogant. Neither Paul Ryan nor Mitt Romney are willing to tell the american people exactly what their plans are to turn this country around. Yes, Mr Ryan gave us their 5 point plan, but when asked what that plan was, he never gave a clear answer.

      • lana ward

        ROMNEY-RYAN ALL AMERICAN , JUST WHAT AMERICA NEEDS!!!

      • ALLLLAMERICAN: Accept it, Biden The Clown IS an IDIOT !!
        Boys will be boys, idiots will be idiots …. and USEFUL idiots (Justin comes to mind) will be, …. well, USEFUL idiots !!

    • CAThinker

      The same with you… Why are you here? There’s a very small minority of posters here that agree with you, but you continue to lurk around here. There is no common ground, but yet you continue – why don’t you just go away, there are plenty of other forums that cater to your (non)thinking – go there and live it up. Or do you only collect money if you post here? You’re less than useless – go away!

      • lana ward

        Biden’s performance last night–4 states leaning Obama are now in the toss up catagory. Michigan, Pennsylvania and 2 others

        • darkagesbegin

          and the other two? Pennsylvania and Michigan?

          • lana ward

            Watch some real news and find out

    • Justin Napolitano

      Ryan is a snake. If I had to leave a room he was in I would back out of it while holding my wallet.
      His Medicare plan it ridicules. He says they have to kill it to fix it. Really. That is like taking your kid to the hospital and having them say that the have to kill him to cure him.
      Leave Medicare alone Ryan and go peddle you papers somewhere else.

  • as far as it went i seen joe do well i feel . there are some thing more that could of been pointed out but with the time frame what can one do ? i do belive debates like these should by for a longer time . heck its our country we are talking about a mivie last longer and a base ball game foot ball game last longer isnt the country worth the same time as a sports game ? and the debates should be starting at an earlyer time like 7or 8 EST at 8 the west coast can catch it at 5 pm . and ir thy cry about it in any way then the network should run it to the time zone and replay it copy it what ever is needed . if the debates are longer (as i feel thy should be ) then more important things about the country will come out . if thy cant find a time durinmg the weekdays to make every one happy then do a day on the weekend . tape it and have it at a time where every one can see it to their time thats better for them . the thing with the health care now if its not broken then dont fix it . and one dosent take there car to get fixed if its just some ajustments that need to be done . then if the health care has some flaws then adjust them . the pres. plah is to help out the most of the ppl. he can with his plan . as far as makeing every thing peachie in the country we do have a way . but awwwwwwwwww god forbid the country make 2% only 2$ of the greedy bastards in this country up set . one way to fix every thing and make the country grow and do better . and its been done before and it worked great . the bill cliton era . theres in 8 yrs 23 million jobs were made the country had a sru-plus . maybe the first time in all the country time of being a country . i might be wrong about that . but still we had money in the bank with bill in the house . ppl. tell me this , do you feel we would have a better ground to stand on with china if we was dealing with them and not oweing them any money at all ? i belive we would . and if theres 2% of the greedy bastards that are upset the heck with them better 2 % then 98 % look at the numbers . and in the cliton/s era . the 2 % did great the country did great . see whats happening here the 2 % of the greedy bastards them selfs asre holding the country back with their greed . isnt one of the things in the good book something about greed ? if the country wasnt trying to pamper the 2% of the greedy bastards we,d be doing so much better . hewy ppl. we dont need those 2 % mopre then thy need us . if thy want to get mad and take their ball and go home and move away . then heck let them . let them move to the middle east im sure iran would mind a new nabber lol . or afganastan thy would love them over there give me ur money the would say or ill blow you up and thy will give them the money and thjy would still blow them up anyways for being so stupid . the greedy bastards 2 % has mad enough money off the DIRTY BUSH tax breaks now it time to pay the piper (pay back the country you say you love so much ) or is it not the country thy love only the money thy make on it ? the seem to be more like a plage the eat the country till its dead sucking the life out of the country till theres no more life in it . well greedy bastards when the countrys dead where are you going top go then ? another planet please we dont need those greey bastards here . thy keep the country in check at a stand still . and just because thy would have to pay a little more its not a lot its just the fair share of a % thats all . you know it thy wass to pay their faire share who knows the country can go back to being the top of the world and even getting other country together and all putting money into the kitty to masybe even going to other planets and exploreing who knows where we could go as a HUMAN RACE and how far if we was to work together . this world needs this couyntry to lead it . how old is this country ? as compaired to the other countrys of the world . we the USA have grown so much like no other country in history of the world has grown in out time of being a country and we can lead the world to a brighter world and that not putting down any other countrys intelagents it would and could be pulling out all the worlds intelagents and the brains of the planets can make this place this world a better place for all the HUMAN RACE and it is a race thing for this world its a HUMAN RACE THING not a faith wont get us to a better place for all the faiths are so much different in what thy belive that holds back the human race . the faith the world should hold is that every one in it is there own god and this world has as many gods as ppl. in it . for each of us know right from wrong and good from bad . so each of us are our own god . feel good about being ur own god then you can belive in ur self . dont belive in words that others have written in time who truly knows what thy was thinging or what thy knew . belive in half of what you hear and all of what you see . as i see it there is a higher power but its not a good its from another world its a (ER) but then there can be a god in each and every one of us maybe thats where ET went wrong and not telling or letting every one know thast the god that is there is in each of us you are your own god belive in your self . one can even thing that the ET,S did get it right from the start and did tell the HUMAN RACE that thy each are there own gods but then it comes to beliving half what you hear and hearing what other,s have writen . may not be the truty . the truth is belive in ur self thats the way the planet and the HUMAN RACE will grow to its fullest . ok that my short story now belive half what i say . unless you want the long sdtory the next time have a great day all and belive in ur god its ur self 🙂

  • To Repukes, facts matter? B/S…Your idea of facts is style points & and who looks “slick”on camera..There are some things PX90 can’t do for you…

    I don’t care if Biden interrupted this lying clown a thousand times…When Ryan’s lips move,he lied…About time someone call out that lying little chicken lips..

    • The reason Biden seemed to be interrupting, it was his turn. Ryan constantly went over his 2 minutes. 4 minutes one time.

  • Malarkey! I shiver to imagine Biden as a president! He is a knuckle-head, loose cannon, rude, and obnoxious individual – diarrhea of the mouth VP. Go Ryan! Why do you think Obama and the White House shut him up for the past 6 months? They cringed the whole entire debate. Did you see the snap shot of Obama on Air Force One?? He was crapping his pants!
    You guys are still in denial – Biden lost – period. And yes, the polls will shift, just watch and see. Many people not being polled are waiting quietly and patiently to get rid of those two jokers.
    “ONE-TERM”

    • thin_bluine

      Sorry Dave, but your the biggest Republitard I have ever heard on this thread. Rude and Obnoxious? Really? Really? Apparently you did not watch the presidential debate then, so by your statement it is my understanding that if you are one of the wealthy republitards then it is your God given right to be rude and interupt people as they speak and talk over them as they take their turn to talk, is that correct? If not please explain yourself because you obviously did not see any of the Presidential debate. Sounds like your just upset that the tables got turned on your hero, Romney’s “yes man political robot” Mr. Ryan. If and that is a huge IF your Republitard party wins this election I will look forward to seeing you be the first one to say “Wow what the hell did I do, voting for these to clowns for office!” Peace Out Man! Go Obama/Biden

      • Which party is rude and obnoxious? Look which party people use the nastiest language on these posts. There is only one liberal who actually calls names and she is the exception.

        • Maggie: Fern?? The ONLY one ??!!
          Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, haaaaaaa!!!!
          Lady, be MINDFUL of what you say !!
          LOL !!!

  • middleclasstaxpayer

    It has been estimated that, at this particular time 90% of our population has devoted less than 3 hours of their attention to politics. These good but politically uninformed people start deciding over the last 3-4 weeks before an election which way they will cast votes. Therefore it is heartening to see liberals make fools of themselves when people ARE paying attention. Keep up the great work—we couldn’t do it without YOUR input!

    • Justin Napolitano

      Speaking of fools, Ryan could not lie his way out of his assertions because Biden called him out. There is only one way to confront a liar, head on and with vigor. Well done Joe, we love you.
      Now Joe has to show Obama how to attack Romney, in the same manner, because Romney is a professional liar and has even stated that he knows all about lies because of his experience with his own kids. I just wish Obama had said that the apple didn’t fall from that tree.
      That statement along would have won the debate for Obama.

  • montanabill

    Speaking of malarkey, didn’t Joe say that Romney wanted to put GM into bankruptcy? Maybe he just forgot, they were already in bankruptcy when Obama operated like a loan shark telling the parties they could only get government money if the UAW didn’t have renegotiate their contract and could get part of the company and have preference over bondholders. Obama gave over $26 billion of taxpayer money to the UAW, sustaining UAW members’ compensation, and sparing them most of the sacrifices made in a typical bankruptcy. Obama did not bail out the auto industry, he bailed out the UAW.

    Joe also sticks to that ridiculous story about the administration not knowing the facts about the terrorist attack in Benghazi. Throwing Clapper under the bus for their 10 days of denial is unconscionable. Clapper admits to initially saying it was a spontaneous reaction, but within 24 hours had verified it was a terrorist attack. He certainly deserves criticism for jumping to a conclusion, though. The fact that Obama stuck to that story long after it was proven to be false, is very troubling.
    There isn’t a 10 year old in the country that wouldn’t have known to be prepared for attacks on the anniversary of 9/11.

    Oh, and we didn’t have proper security because the Republicans wanted cuts of $330 million out of a $2.6 billion request for embassy security. What Joe didn’t say was that the actual decrease was $270 million not $330 million and, either way, it would not have had the slightest effect on them denying additional security for Benghazi or being even moderately prepared for a possible attack.

    I’m still waiting for someone, anyone, to tell me just how increasing taxes on the rich is going to help the middle class. Instead of reducing the deficit by a fraction, does he intend to send checks to anyone deemed to be middle class? Or will it be used instead of reducing the deficit by a fraction to creating government jobs to offset the private sector jobs it will cost.

    I’m still confused over who is rich. Just those making over $1 million a year or everyone making over $250,000 a year. Joe was talking about over $1 million, but letting the tax cuts revert for the top tier (35% to 39.5%) would hit way more than them.

    • Keep peddling…Maybe someone will buy that*rap…

      • Alicia: Is THAT the best you can come up with in response to montanabill’s well taken points ??
        Think, lady, think !!
        I know, I know, it’s TOO MUCH to ask of any of you useful idiot MORONS …
        It’s okay, Alicia, it’s okay ….

    • BDD1951

      Romney said “let GM go bankrupt”. Probably so Bain or some other corporate raider could go in and send all jobs overseas.

      • thelonegunmanX

        Probably because it isn’t the role of government to step in and clean up companies’ messes.

      • BDD, I saw the newsclip where Romney said, “Let GM go bankrupt.” GM was facing bankruptcy, but it had not been filed yet.

    • Justin Napolitano

      I see, montana, you have more information than the US state Department, CIA, National Security advisers, the Army, Marines and the FBI which is conducting an investigation as we write. Just because someone requests more security does not mean we can provide it. Do you think that Libya would approve us sending in 50 or a hundred Marines to protect a consulate? A consulate is not a fort, it is not designed to be a fighting bastion it is designed to be a place where we interface with the local community. In a country that is still trying to develop a central government, after a revolution in one of the most volatile places on earth, it is very dangerous to be there. Some people would suggest that we just forget about it and not even try; that we should shrink back to the safety of the United States and not attempt to have an influence on Libya. Well Ambassador Stevens felt otherwise and should be honored for his bravery and not be made a pawn in the blame someone game. Please do not make things up, it makes you appear unsophisticated.

      • montanabill

        Ambassador Stevens was the one who asked for more security which was denied. We could have easily had a detachment of Marines on site and as many as we felt justified in having just off coast. You are simply trying to excuse the inexcusable.

        • montana: Can you imagine what this nincompoop Justin would have said about this subject if it had happened during GW Bush’s watch?
          Can you imagine what Rachel MadCow, Keith Olbermann, Wolf Blitzer, BILL MAHER and so many other useful idiots would have said if GW Bush was still the President ?
          Oh, brother, people of Justin’s ilk would not criticize Obozo if they saw him raping a woman …. (“But, wasn’t she asking for it ?”)

  • latebloomingrandma

    If you’ve watched past VP debates, Rep.Ryan held his own pretty well. He did not come off as easily rattled or intimidated by the current VP. But Biden took the gloves off, so Repub., deal with it. Anything less would have you ridiculing him anyway. We get that. Biden has his facts down better. I can’t stand this ongoing distortion about Obamacare. One would think listening to Republicans, that Obama has stolen $716 billion from Medicare to give it to the 45 million uninsured “takers” out there. NOTHING has been taken from the Medicare trust fund Part A. The $716 billion is a reduction of that amount of money spread out over the next 10 years! (That amount of money would have been an inflationary increase) Aren’t Republicans always harping about reducing the costs of healthcare? When a Democrat grabs the idea first, now it’s stealing. The $$ reduces the amount paid to insurance companies who administer medicare Advantage Plans , which cost the gov’t more than traditional Medicare. Also, different strategies are being planned to reduce cost, including incentives for health systems to design their own plans, try bundling of payments for chronic conditiions, restructure how care is delivered, etc. In other words, put efficiencies into our system to reduce the rate of health care spending.

    Secondly, regarding foreign policy–the Obama team should take note that Ryan used a term several times (probably poll tested) that we are seening the “unraveling of the Obama foreign policy.” The Middle East is incredibly complicated, and does not offer the easy solutions and “data’ that consultant Romney is used to, so I see a Romney administration taking marching orders from Bush neocons, who are advising him. That should scare the bejesus out of everyone. Obama needs to be ready for that phrase and be forceful in his pushback.

    • Late, most of that 716 bil came from an insurance program that the government gives an amount per insured person and the insurance company handles it. This program was overcharging the Medicare program and program is being phased out. In our paper, a woman wrote in the readers’say column about how horrible Obamacare is that they stopped this program and now she has to pay $73/mo for her insurance. Anyone out there who would love to get insurance for $73/mo?

  • JPierce4757

    Rippers post was worth reposting!!!!!!!! Good job ripper!
    Republicans view on debates.
    Let’s see. Romney interupts, talks over moderater and Obama, that’s okay. Biden does it, not okay. Romney smirks at president,that’s okay. Biden smirks at Ryan, not okay.
    Romney becomes another person, a phoney, that’s okay. Biden is himself, not okay.
    Romney stands and listens, takes notes, is in control,that’s okay. Obama stands and listens, takes notes, is in control, not okay.
    Now, there is a simple explanation as to why the republicans react the way they do when it comes to debates. They don’t like it when the dems push back. Same old thing. They can dish it out, but they can’t take it.

    • ALLLLAMERICAN

      The Only difference was BidEn acted like a complete idiot or some kind of CLOWN!!!

      OMG HOW EMBARRASSING!!

      • CAThinker

        You know what – you’re embarrassing! Why are you here? There’s probably no more than 5 posters here that agree with you, but you continue to lurk around here. There is no common ground, but yet you continue – why don’t you just go away, there are plenty of other forums that cater to your (non)thinking – go there and live it up. Or do you only collect money if you post here? You’re less than useless – go away!

        • Don’t Worry More Of The Tea Bagging Cockroaches Are Not Far Behind Him!!! They All Are Useless Just Like The GOP/Tea Party American Taliban It’s Time To CLEAN HOUSE PEOPLE VOTE ALL OF THEM OUT OF OFFICE!! THEY ARE NOT WORKING FOR US THEY ARE WORKING FOR THE 1%

          • thelonegunmanX

            oh c’mon now isn’t that a bit vitriolic? tea bagging cockroaches?
            At least you never cease to be entertaining
            I just hope you’re partly kidding

        • Catthinker, The best way to deal with these tedious robots who have been programmed by faux news and maybe, their parents, is to ignore them. They add nothing to the dialogue. They just open their mouths and hate spews out.

        • ALLLLAMERICAN

          how bout YOU go there and live it up YOU CAT LICKER

          you might want to start practicing:

          ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!!!

          ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!!!

          ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!!!

          ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!!!

          • highpckts

            Real dimwit! Can’t past his bigotry!!

        • CAT(NON)Thinker: NEWS for you:
          1) We will be here until we want to leave;
          2) There’s NOTHING you can do about it !!;
          3) You Liberals are PATHETIC: Congratulating each other for your respective STUPIDITIES and absurdities: “Well said, Dominick!”;
          “I agree !”; “Could not have said it better myself” (why not admit that “Could not have said it MYSELF, LOL ??!!)
          4) The “5” (many more !) exceptions you mention are the ONLY thinking, sophisticated people around this cesspool of IDIOCY and lunatics. The rest are Obozo stupid-useful-idiot-unconditional-retard-zombies !!!
          LOL !!
          P.S. – Your Fern WoodCock is, by far, the stupidest voice on this cesspool, …. alongside the MORONS that “Like” her ….
          P.S.2. – THAT doesn’t mean you are intelligent, JohninPCFL, daniel bostdorf (whatever!), bcarreiro, Maggie Croft, highpckts, BDD1951, old_blu, ExPAVIC (dumbass), lindablue (“The rich have 288.1 % of ALL the wealth in this country”), joyscarbo (see? I didn’t forget ya !), durdydawg, CPANY, Justin Napolitano (Janet’s OLDER brother!), grammyjill, Dominick Village (“Gee, Dominick, why don’t you run for President?”; “Do you have your own blog?”, DUH!), it just means that even you guys are not HALF the ASSHOLES that Fern WoodCock is !!
          P.S. – Sorry for all the other useful idiots I left out. You know who you are. Just include yourselves in my list ….

      • Justin Napolitano

        Well allll you do it with every post. I love Joe Biden because he will call you out, particularly when you lie out of your teeth.

      • highpckts

        That explains why Ryan was gulping water all nite!! Because his lies were burning his mouth!!

      • grammyjill

        you still haven’t anwsered my test question.

        • old_blu

          I have a feeling you will just hear crickets, chirp chirp chirp.

          But I would like to hear the question.

          • grammyjill

            I asked him how he felt about a 14 year old pakastani girl getting shot in the head on her school bus just because she wanted to go to school. She hasb survived but the Taliban has vowed to kill her and her father who was the head of her school.

          • old_blu

            He may not answer your question, but I hope you don’t mind if I give you my take on it.

            I think it was a horrible thing, and I also think that her sacrifice might change the world, and I hope that it does.

          • grammyjill

            She was moved to the military hospital in england today. Alot of the women and girls in Pakistan are standing up for the girl. The police station was attacked this morning because they arrested a few of the taliban members. I suspect that there will be no taliban welcome in Pakistan pretty damn shortly.

        • BDC_57

          grammy he we will not anwser you because he don’t know the anwser.

          • grammyjill

            yea, someone like him would probably think it’s just fine for the taliban to shoot a fourteen year old girl just because she wanted to go to school.

        • BDC_57

          probly can’t read lol.

    • You Got That Right My Friend Yes It Is Worth Reposting Everywhere!!!

  • Lovefacts

    While watching the debate, I found myself shouting at Ryan when he talked about sending troops back into Iraq. Guess he’s forgotten about the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) that Bush signed. It states the date by which our troops had to leave and if, after that date, they killed any Iraq, even if in self-defense, they would be judged under Iraq law.

    That Romney/Ryan want to send more troops into Afghanistan makes my blood boil. After a decade of us losing treasure and the lives of our best, the Afghans, should deal with the most dangerous area, the East. As Biden said, it’s the Afghan’s responsibility to defend their country. You know—the ones we’ve trained.

    As for Iran, right now the Middle East is united behind us and the use of the sanctions to stop Iran. The moment we set boots in or drop bombs on Iran, they will unite against us. Yet, Romney/Ryan will send troops in. That’s their knee-jerk reaction is always war. Of course, neither of them has served in the military nor has Romney had this adult sons serve in the military. But then Romney believes his sons’ are serving a higher purpose, getting him elected.

    I was also relieved that Biden pointed out that no matter what your personal/religious stand on abortion is, you shouldn’t pass laws forbidding it based upon that said religion’s belief that life begins at conception. Last time I looked, we weren’t a theocracy. IMO, should these laws pass, they will rightfully be litigated based upon the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

  • As a Brit; this election is so much more interesting than ours.

    • BDD1951

      I was in Spain during your 2010 election. Watched on British CNN. Looked pretty interesting to me.

    • Adam, I bet your parties are a lot more civilized.

  • ObozoMustGo

    Obozo Lied, American Died!

    Have a nice day!

    “Blaming a 2-bit film for radical islamic violence is like blaming forks for obesity” – ObozoMustGo

    • Justin Napolitano

      You shot off your mouth, obozo and we all sighed, more garbage from obozo.

      • Justin: Look at what you just did !! You, with your inane rantings, woke up your “instructors/teachers/professors/enlighteners”: ObozoMustGo and montanabill….
        Now, YOU face the consequences, Justin !! LOL !!!

  • You know that when Republicans start whining about Biden interupting Ryan that Joe had done well and got under their skin. Ryan at times kept repeating the same policy items instead of explaining them. It sounded like some mantra used to meditate, maybe that was what Ryan was trying todo,, put Biden in a trance.

    • I was timing them. Ryan was using two minutes of Joe’s time and Joe had a right to interrupt.

      • lana ward

        I heard it today, Biden talked alittle longer than Ryan, and i don’t think it included the interruptions

  • mbm

    “Malarkey!” Uncle Joe calls it like he sees it! Just loved it.

  • not really it was voodoo economics as W’s father said. it is easy to have cash in your pocket if you put everything on the credit card and never pay the bill. deficits do not matter according to Cheney.
    they reduced the tax rate and things started falling apart due to lack of funding. Do you love this country or money more?

  • I replied to another comment that said this it got posted seperatly from middleclasstaxpayer “I’ll address just one lie on Biden’s part…..JFK, Reagan & G W Bush ALL reduced taxes AND tax revenues WENT UP dramatically! It’s already in the historical data available to anyone. How can THAT be characterized as a lie by your hero Biden??”

    • awakenaustin

      Because it is inaccurate. JFK cut taxes, in a particular set of circumstances, which did in fact increase revenues. The tax cutting efforts by Reagan and G.W. Bush did not increase revenues. This led Reagan to later raise taxes. As we all know the latter Bush’s efforts helped dramatically spur our deficit issue.But hey, who cares what the facts are. Tax cuts only have never produced the wonderful economic results their advocates claim.

      • awakenaustin: “But hey, who cares what the facts are.”
        YOUR words, not mine !!
        I could not agree more with middleclasstaxpayer when he syas that “… it is heartening to see liberals make fools of themselves when people ARE paying attention. Keep up the great work—we couldn’t do it without YOUR input!”
        Keep talking, awaken, and please keep Biden The Clown talking nonstop !!
        Ha, ha, ha !!!

        • awakenaustin

          In your dictionary look up the word sarcasm. Get someone to explain it to you.

    • Justin Napolitano

      So, based on that logic, Edward, zero taxes would produce infinite revenue. There is a point of diminishing, zero or negative return where doing the same thing does not produce positive results. We have reached that point with tax cuts. It is impossible to lower tax rates more and produce enough revenue to balance the budget. If you and others are serious about the deficit then taxes will have to go up, probably for everyone.

      • I like to read a post from someone who can actually think.

        • Maggie: So WHY did you read Justin’s (raise everybody’s taxes !) post ??!!

  • Good morning my fellow Dems and wlcome to all others. Yes, I was proud and pleased that Biden “let him have it” and told the nation the truth of the lies that have been spewed by the GOP. And yes, I loved the point he made with the Afghans,,,yes we need to let them fight their own war. We are coming home!! I know that President Obama fill follow suit in the next debate. Obama/Biden

  • I was looking forward to watching the local news this morning to see how they viewed the debate….not surprising Fox 10, CBS 5, and Fox 3 had very little to nothing to say about the landslide that Biden caused. Not until 8:30 after everyone had gone to work did Fox 3 have a 3 minute overview of the VP debate and tried to downplay the fact that Biden re-energized the Democratic voters. Goes to show you how the media reflects their own personal views. If they don’t like it they just ignore it. Thank you Biden for providing the American public the facts of the failed and dysfunctional GOP party!

  • Paul Ryan is still too young for medicare,he is rich enough that this will never affect him ,I hope it never gets to where he is sleeping in the park as a lot of vets in my town do and have to depend on a small income and can’t get it because he has no address,Romney and Ryan would be distructive to this beautiful Country and as I say “God bless America ” and our troops.

    • But Remember Ryan Did Live Off Of SS When His Father Died Pus Got Help From Government To Go To School Plus Begged By Writing Letters For Government Money That He Was Claiming He Didn’t Remember!! Now That He’s Rich He And The Rest Of The American Taliban Don’t Want You Getting No Help From Government When ALL Of Them Got Help I Mean ALL!!

  • a80a

    VP Biden cleaned his clock , martha could not get many specific answers from Ryan . he did not have any, the sanctions against Iran are working, the mitten and ryan are in denial about the sanctions not working, it seems as if they would like to start another war in the middle east just what America needs , another killing for our sons, brothers, etc. while the GOP profits from the high cost of war material. just what we need is a morman and a catholic running the country telling women of different faiths when and when not to have children. as Biden would say malarkey.

  • rockwoman

    JOE BIDEN AND I HAVE THINGS IN COMMON, I AM ALWAYS SAYING THAT!, THAT I AM JUST STATING THE FACTS! HE BLEW HIS FRIEND OUT OF THE WATER!!! THANK YOU JOE FOR ALL YOU DO!!! I AND SO MANY OTHERS LIKE ME ARE PROUD OF YOU TOO!!! SO PROUD AND THANKFUL FOR YOU STANDING UP WITH US, THE 47%, THE BACK BONE OF THIS GREAT HONORABLE COUNTRY!!!

  • I actually saw a comment from some Romney supporter complaining how much of a bully Biden was because he was so rude and what a bad role model he was for children and “what a moron” he was. I just wonder if these people can hear themselves.

    • If I still had children I would be proud to have them debate like Biden. That is what debate is about.

    • highpckts

      The old saying “it takes one to know one” fits, don’t ya think!

  • Melvin Chatman

    Ryan did have “conviction” before he teamed with Mitt!
    This is proof that: “I can tell WHO you are by WHO you WITH”
    Like my MAMA used to say – “Po Thang”!!!!!!!

  • Hey Repugnantcans, next time don’t send a boy “Eddie Munster” Ryan to a grown-ups debate. The school of hard knocks.

  • ALLLLAMERICAN

    HEEEYYY—-Where’s that smart ass Maggie Croft today?????

    Oh yeah, it is Friday SHAMPOO SET DAY for all the blue hair women!!

  • tokoloshi27

    If you ever need a reason why our fellow Americans dislike these campaigns; just read down this comment list; inarticulate posturing, pandering and fanciful ‘fact-making’ on a dreadfully mismanaged and staged campaign event.

    Two men debated last night in a close, almost intimate setting; the left-leaning moderator was unfortunately out of her league and ineffective in directing the conversation or maintaining decorum.

    The ‘man of the people’ demagogued, made faces and then when it was his turn to speak stammered and stuttered his way through a series of painfully inarticulate whines and excuses. When it wasn’t his turn to speak, he deliberately interrupted and made histrionic noises.

    The wonk won on points but only because he didn’t umm his message.

    • Sand_Cat

      Speaking of inarticulate postering and pandering….

      The fact that your prose is a bit more sophisticated than the average right-wing lunatic on this site doesn’t change the fact that the message is the same dishonest and irrational crap spouted by the others.

      And of course, none of your friends here demagogue or make “painfully inarticulate whines and excuses.” Like, for instance, your “All American” friend in the post made after yours: a birther and general moron, obviously.

      And of course, there’s you: you don’t know what racism is, according to you, but in the same post you accuse those who object to the obvious racism of concentrating signs trying to discourage voting in black neighborhoods of themselves being “racist.” You’re just like the others, only a little more skilled in sophism.

      • Sand, and a couple of whackadoodles have let their racism slip. One said Obama speaks in ebonics and the other said they weren’t hateful, just angry about them coming to take guns away and – political correctness.

  • curious11

    Hey forget the debate! The big sensation all over the Internet is about Obama’s muslim ring, inscribed with “there is no god but Allah! I hope Candy Crowley asks Obama and Romney the same question. how has your faith defined your character? So which faith will Obama allude to: the phony Wright Trinity hate group… or his birth rooted Muslim ideology?

    • ALLLLAMERICAN

      I’ve said it the whooooole time!!!!

      Allllll these LIB’S are going to be chanting ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!!!

      “IF” obama get’s in again—-

      ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!!!

      ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!!!

      ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!!!

      ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!! ALLAH!!!!!

      • Justin Napolitano

        Hey alll, You are stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid
        stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid
        stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid
        stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid
        stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid
        stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid

        • Curious: You see? “JUST” what I told you about Justin: Not a bad person, …. but as dumb as a box of nails ….

      • grammyjill

        You know, whenever I really need something to happen, I ask the help of Saint Jude and then say Allah shall provide. I’m not muslim or catholic, but I figure can’t hurt to ask everybody. So far it’s worked 90% of the time.

        • BDC_57

          why is alll repeating the word god.lol

          • grammyjill

            Yea, I know but, I figure get all the religions I can involved. What the heck, it’s worked.

    • awakenaustin

      Wow! The three Stooges (Curious11, ALLLLAMERICAN – trouble spelling?-, and Over Matched Guy) alive and well on this little blog. You know of course that only persons who are clinically insane actually believe President Obama is of the Muslim faith. Maybe I could interest you guys in the some property I own off the coast of Florida? It is all ocean front and I mean all ocean front. Or, maybe the Brooklyn Bridge?

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        Do your research—
        Look on “Atlas Shrugs” Obama’s ring:
        There is no god but Allah

        ALSO—

        The Western Center for Journalism—Proof Obama’s a Muslim

        • FredAppell

          I thought America had freedom of religion. In fact, there is no law indicating a sitting president has to be a Christian or even religious at all. I admit that I don’t know what religion Obama really is but for me it is not an issue.

          • old_blu

            That’s what I’m say’n Fred, there are many ways to be racist it dosen’t have to be about the color of someones skin, it could be about their religion.

          • FredAppell

            I guess the party of the W.A.S.P. are running scared. The world is passing them by and they view the changes with disdain. I’m proud of Americas young people because they’re rejecting all the obsolete phobias and bias that conservatives seem to cling to.

          • Fred: You , sir, are an (avowed) Socialist. STFU !!
            P.S. – I’m sorry, I forgot that’s NOT an insult on this cesspool called The National Forum, full of Fern-type Occupy-Wall-Street-TALIBAN types !!

          • BDC_57

            this is true.

          • lana ward

            I saw the ring too, a picture of Obama with that ring on his finger. He plans on turning our country into The United States of Ialam. I think he is about ready to be exposed

          • grammyjill

            Do you understand photoshop? The ONLY ring he wears is his wedding ring.

          • lana ward

            His wedding ring is the Islamic ring he’s worn since 1981

          • grammyjill

            you are so brainwashed you better find a good shrink.

          • lana ward

            Obama is a muslim and wears an Islamic ring. He should be put in a jar of urine, wearing that ring, since he thinks it’s fine Jesus Christ on the cross is in a jar of urine

          • grammyjill

            I would rather have an honest muslim than a lyan morman!

          • lana ward

            You’ll soon find out what a lying, hateful muslim this snake is

          • Grammy, one other dipsh-t, on the hate bloggers, says the ring is a wedding ring, proving that Obama and his college roommate were in a homosexual relationship. These whackos are actually proud of their ignorance.

          • grammyjill

            I just told lana that I’d rather have an honest muslim than a lyan morman. I expect her head to blow up any minute now. I think we should keep telling them that and blow up all there heads.

          • grammy: “lyan morman”?!
            “there” heads?!
            Get some basic English classes !!

          • Maggie: So THAT’S why Odumbo now claims he is in favor of homosexual marriages!!
            NOW I know! Thanks for clarifying ….

          • BDC_57

            prove in that photo that it was obama.

          • lana ward

            You mean you don’t know Obama when you see him?

          • The lying, hateful racists could make it look like Obama and I saw the photo. I did not see proof that it was Obama and I did not see any writing on the ring. I think it was already proven that it was a hoax.

          • BDC_57

            she only believes what her leader romney wants her to believe.

          • grammyjill

            Yea, she told me his wedding ring IS his muslim ring and he’s worn it since birth. WOW! It is very hard to believe that some people can just refuse to use their brain or try a little common sence.And that pat dollard site she keeps touting, I checked it out. It’s laughable. I supose it’s great if you’re already a dumb racist, but anyone with critical thinking would laugh while their stomach was turning. What stupidity!

          • Grammy, I checked out the Pat Dollard site, also. What crazies. Just because someone says something on the internet, does not make it something that would hold up in a court of law. When the internet was new, there was a supposed doctor giving medical advice and it turned out he was 12 years old.

            People who fall for him are the ones who are going to let us lose our government. Pat Dollard uses fear and hate tactics to get people to follow him. Someone else did that in Germany in the 30’s.

          • Maggie: What you said remind me of Keith Olbermann, Rachel MadCow, and BILL MAHER ….

          • grammyjill

            Yea, I think I might try to confuse them enough to make their brain hurt.

          • grammy: 1) “for the very first time in my life I am proud to be an American” – Michelle Obama-2008; 2) “The private sector is doing just fine” – Barry Soetoro-2012
            How about that for “critical thinking”, grammy?
            Come on, deny those comments are true/verifiable…

          • grammyjill

            So what’s wrong with either one of those statements. There have been times in my life that I was ashamed to be an american and times I was very proud of it. And the private sector is doing much better. Alot better that the public sector where jobs are concerned.

        • Justin Napolitano

          You know allll, you are, perhaps one of the least knowledgeable people on this message board. Allah, is just another word for God. There is no difference except in your perverted mind.
          Ignorance is not a virtue, allll, so try getting an education so that you can post something comprehensible.

          • curious11

            Hey there I suggest you enroll in a cultural class! Start by reading Hourani’s History of the Arab People. It’s only about 550 pp… Perhaps too much for your brain to handle. After reading that, I doubt you’ll think Allah is just another word for God. As far as the ring info, that comes from Duke University…and it’s all over the Internet!

          • awakenaustin

            Proof conclusive that Duke University isn’t immune to idiots. Wow if it is on the Internet it msut be true. What was I thinking? I have actually read the book. It is interesting. However, Mr. Napolitano is correct. Allah is derived from an arabic word for God – elah. It means God. Everyone uses it that way. Hey, its on the internet – look it up.

          • Justin, you are right. Not every country speaks King James English. When Sarah was getting old and had not conceived, she asked Abraham to take her servant and get a child by her. Hagar got pregnant and produced a child. Then Sarah became pregnant and Abraham sent poor Hagar out into the wilderness with her tiny baby. And when they had to survive and possibly met up with a wandering tribe, Abraham had the gall to call his son, by Hagar, a wildman. Hagar’s baby grew up in the same religion that Hager had. He was cut off from his father’s tribe and begin worshipping in the country he was in. That religion became Islam.

          • Justin: One complaint and one question:
            Complaint: When you said ALLL is “perhaps one of the least knowledgeable people on this cessp…, er, … message board”, you left ME out, Justin, and that’s not fair !
            Question: Do you consider yourself “one of the MOST knowledgeable people on this cessp…, er, … message board”??
            Just saying, …. just asking ….
            “The problem with Liberals is not so much that they are ignorant, but that they know so much stuff that just ain’t so…” – President Ronald W. Reagan —

        • awakenaustin

          The conclusions of idiots and the statements of idiots won’t prove you aren’t one yourself. He has no such ring. It is a fiction of someone’s fevered imagination. There isn’t even a scintilla of evidence that the President is a Muslim. This is pathetic. It is silliness at a level almost impossible to contemplate. It is amazing that one this delusional can survive the ordinary vicissitudes of daily life.

        • BDC_57

          then why did obama get married in the bapcist church in chicago.

      • lana ward

        It’s the truth I saw the ring too, on Obama’s finger. There is no God but Allah

        • awakenaustin

          Really, the President showed it to you? Should I bother to point out the obvious? You should see my ring! Better yet you should see how I am holding up my social finger on my right hand. It is astounding how this can be kept form everyone except the clowns. They seem to know everything. Soon you will be telling me the world is flat and you know because you have seen it.

          • lana ward

            Go to the site –PAT DOLLARD– see for yourself. You act like Biden, your a flippen idiot

          • awakenaustin

            It is you’re not your. The ring business is a lie. I investigated and already it has been exposed and established as a complete fraud. It is another idiotic conspiracy started by idiots who have nothing better to do with their time than to lure the gullible into believing nonsense. They count the money this generates and laugh at the clowns who believe their drivel.

          • lana ward

            It is yourself, not you’reself. The ring it’s not a lie, and the world is flat. Since the debate, 4 states leaning Obama are now toss ups. I don’t think your Alice in Wonderland smiling cat did your ticket any good

          • awakenaustin

            You should have said “ you are a flippen idiot,” not “your a flippen idiot.” Is English your first language? Your insults are losing steam. Is it too much alcohol or apoplexy? The Alice in Wonderland cat is a Cheshire Cat. Anything else you might like to know? Given the quality of your thought, I don’t believe it much matters what you think. The ring business is still a fraud. Santa Claus doesn’t come on Christmas Eve and the Easter Bunny doesn’t bring eggs at Easter. How have your parents managed to keep this from you for so long? You are as arrogantly ignorant as OMG, Curious11, ALLLAMERICAN, et. al. It is a mental disorder and you really aren’t to blame.

          • lana ward

            Does it matter what the cats name is . He is spooky just like Biden with that big fake ugly smile-that’s the impression Biden has left. With all of his disrespect, laughing and interrupting, 4 states leaning Obama are now toss ups. Keep it up, foot in mouth Joe!! Fact checkers have found half of what he said were lies.

          • awakenaustin

            Yes facts matter. You just make things up.

          • awaken: You forgot ME, you IDIOT !!

          • awakenaustin

            Maybe it is because you matter less than you think you do.

          • awakenaustin

            It is pretty clear that I am not the idiot in this conversation.

          • lana ward

            You have to be, your the only one IN your conversation

          • awakenaustin

            Wow, ran that zinger past my five year old she was some impressed.

          • lana ward

            There should be a comma between old and she. I’m sure glad you didn’t murder her while in the womb

          • BDC_57

            I rember Pat Dollar said he went to mars.

          • awaken: You mean your “five year old” GREAT, GREAT granddaughter?

          • awakenaustin

            Oooo, calling an old man an old man, what an insult. I don’t think she will be much impressed with this one either. But you keep trying. They say nothing teaches like failure. In your case they appear to be wrong. You have had lots of practice and you are still not getting there.

          • BDC_57

            She can’t help she bron that way.

          • BDC: “Bron” that way, you idiot ??

          • BDC_57

            just washed my hands can’t do thing with them.

          • grammyjill

            I’ve already told you that site is a bunch of brainwasher crapo.

    • Justin Napolitano

      Curious, go away. You posted that same nonsense yesterday. I think you are despicable and should be called out as a Republican hack that is getting paid to post his baloney.
      I am not sure but I’ll bet you have a ring with KKK inscribed. It is probably your wedding ring and reminds you to berate you wife each day.

      • curious11

        Republican hack! KKK … Lol … You must belong to the PPUP (Partido para unir a Los pendejos!)

        • curious11: Wow !! I almost tore a ligament laughing at your PPUP, the Party that Justin belongs to.
          Don’t mind Justin too much; he is not a bad person. He is just dumb as a box of nails ….
          P.S. – Curious, and, sorry to say, so are 99.5 % of the people that post on this cesspool of Socialist Occupy-Wall-Street-TALIBANS !!

    • Cairndance

      You are an idiot! The President finally gave up smoking but we continually see him drinking beer! They are even making a White House beer, using the honey the bees in the garden are producing! I’m pretty sure a Muslim wouldn’t be doing this.
      You need to go away!

      • Cairn, since Obama has attended a Baptist Church since his freshman year in college. He, and Michelle were married in this church. He, and his family, still attend a Christian Church. Muslims would not accept that.

        • Maggie: WHICH Christian church ?? Please??

    • grammyjill

      I’d rather have an honest muslim than a lyan morman!

  • Scott1204T

    VP Biden was very patient with his student in the debate, he schooled him without any jabs. What is good for the Goose is good for the Gander. Mitt Romney interupted Obama in last debate as though the debate was his only by his aggressive stand, why does these holla so much on Biden schooling of Student Ryan ?

  • I loved that Biden laughed at Ryan & interrupted him

    • curious11

      Really! Either he was extremely nervous and high on Red Bull … OR!… he was showcasing those pretty pearly white capped teeth we’ll all be able to afford when we get Obamadental!

    • lana ward

      I think that laughing and interrupting may have cost him. Tonight on the news, 4 states that were leaning Obama are now toss ups

  • Scott1204T

    Biden was cool through the one and only VP debate he had Ryan baging so many glasses of mineral water without Biden taking one single sip for his age. Thank you VP Biden you made my day time to exhale.

  • What amazes me is how the republicans convince their followers to believe their policies will fix the country over and over when in reality these same policies have failed every time since Ronald Reagan!

  • Scott1204T

    You are so right , they love to dominate and hate . When would they give up this line of abuse. why did’nt they get in and help clean up buba Bush wreckage of the american nation in 2008, instead of condemning a hard worhing young President ?

    • that’s why congress’s approval rating is 9%

  • I heard some folks in my home town this morning say they listened to the debate and thought Biden was “rude”. I live in the South. I think their perceptions have regional colorings. I am originally from the North and I heard a kindly old gent chuckle at all the lies his opponent told — to the point that they got so bad, or he got worn out chuckling — and he interrupted to set the record straight. I especially liked the way Biden stressed that he is Catholic, believes his church and would follow its views personally, but would not want to force his views on many other Americans who have different beliefs. That position would win him this woman’s vote any old day!

  • irishtap

    I hate to say it but, it seems the only thing the Republicans understand is a well placed full force right cross to the jaw. V.P. Biden laid out Mr. Ryan like a champion. Thank you Joe.

  • It take longer to fix or repair a mess than it take to make it. It took the prevues two admonition 16 years to mess up how can one turn clean it up with the help of all the players. The republicans need to remember they will pay the same. President is working to make it better for all.

  • FredAppell

    I don’t know what debate all of you were watching but the debate that I watched showed Biden as ineffectual. If it were me debating I would have had Ryan completely loosing his composure and making him say what he really believes. Last night was more of a draw in my opinion. There are techniques to completely rattling someones composure and getting them to blurt things out they don’t want you to know. We have all experienced times in our lives when we would say the wrong things out of anger. Ryan and I are about the same age and in Washington terms he is a novice. Biden is older,smarter, wiser and a lot more seasoned and he has been a Washington power broker for a long time. If last night is the best our party can do then we are SCREWED.

    • ExPAVIC

      Screwed Early

      So out of a choice including Cain, Perry, Santorum Bachman, Gingrich, and RoMoney, the American Taliban Republicans were to pick a “winner.” That isn’t politics, that is an attempt at voodoo magic, and it is not working.

      • FredAppell

        Well you got me there. If all those lunatics couldn’t change the minds of the GOP faithful then I guess it wouldn’t matter what Ryan says. Remember one thing though, for a couple of years now Dems and Independents have been wishing for Obama to get tougher and be more like the guy we saw running for his first term.

        • Fred, I am niether Republican nor Democrat and one thing I have always said, “The Democrats are too nice.” Well, like the little boy who gets tired of the bullying, the Democrats are starting to fight back. There still isn’t a Democrat who is as nasty, ugly and whakcy as the likes of Michelle Bauchmann.

          • FredAppell

            Good post Maggie. You put a smile on my face and believe me, that isn’t easy to do. You and Fern both have a way with words and it is much appreciated. Thankyou.

          • Fred: What a disappointment !!
            I thought that you were, even after admitting to be a Socialist, a “confused” but intelligent person.
            … Now that you praised a scumbag like Fern WoodCock and praised her “way with words”, …. sorry to say, I was wrong.
            P.S. – By “way with words” (Fern) do you mean words (hers, not mine) like “asshole” and “Motherfucker”, …. or do you mean just “Teabagging bitch”?
            Just asking ….
            Oh, brother!

    • Fred, face it, man. Ryan got totally exposed. The only gaff that I saw VP Biden make was he failed to call Ryan out on the Libyan-embassy terrorist raid. VP Biden had mentioned earlier that the Republican/Tea Party Congress had blocked the administration’s request for more funding to the military earlier. Later in the debate, Ryan railed about the lack of military defense to protect the embassy, and VP Biden flubbed his response. VP Biden should have told Ryan that it was Republican/Tea Party who had blocked funding to the military and laid the blame where it belonged. But VP Biden clearly made his case in the debates, something President Obama should have done to Romney. However, that too was strategy because what we heard in the first debate we will hear again, and Romney will not be able to flip or flop around the clock. He will have to shit or get off the pot. It may even make you change your mind about voting Romney/Ryan. Unless you’re a good little traitor to your country like your Republican/Tea Party comrades?

      • FredAppell

        I hear you Robert and I don’t disagree with you at all. I think you misunderstood what camp i’m in. What I was trying to say is that I wanted Biden to turn Ryan into a pile of babbling shit. I’m sick and tired of liberals always having to play nice while the GOP call us weak and spineless. I for one am not weak nor am I spineless. Can you imagine how great it would have been to see Ryan lose his cool and say something so vile in front of America that it virtually would have destroyed the GOP for a very long time. I would pay money to see that. By the way, please don’t ever associate me with the Tea Party, Libertarian, Republican or any other conservative. I am probably the most liberal person on this thread. I happen to be a Socialist and I am very proud of it. I am not afraid to admit it to anyone and I refuse to hide in the shadows because of it. So you see, I don’t even have a dog in this fight but I vote Democrat because though they aren’t as far left as I am, they are the only party I can identify with.

        • My apologies, my friend.

          • FredAppell

            No problem Robert. I often wonder how i’ll be perceived and from now on i’m going to try to be more succinct. I am very new to online discussions but i’ll get there. Thank you for replying to both my post.

        • FREDAPELL: WRONG AGAIN, man !!
          Democraps (the modern DEMS, not the party of JFK) are as LEFTISTS as you are !!
          Don’t feel out of place, even for a moment, Fred !!
          Come on ! You “blend in” perfectly!!
          Let’s jail ALL the filthy rich!!
          Long live Castro, Chavez, Marx, Rev. Wright and Obama !!
          Long live Occupy-Wall-Street-TALIBANS !!
          Hooray !!

    • Fred: Tell me Fred, these “techniques” are used by all avowed SOCIALISTS, …. or just by you?

  • I think VP Biden did a fantastic job of getting to the point. The point being the republicans are liars and war mongers who do not care about the poor or the middle class. They also don’t care about another s right to make decisions and choices about their bodies such as a woman right to have an abortion nor do they care about the environment or job creation. If these people get elected the small progresses that were made will be overturned and the rich will continue to get richer and the poor poorer.

  • darkagesbegin

    definition of insanity: voting for yet another republican who promises that this time trickle-down voodoo economics will work, really.

  • Virginia51

    Thank God for Joe Biden. Out of the 4 candidates he has always been the true champion of the middle class.

    Joe Biden Gets It. I wrote about it on the DeadlyClear blog a year ago featuring a video where he says exactly what he means, the cause of this country’s economic nightmare and depression has been the”God-Awful Ponzi schemes”. It’s time to take the gloves off and let Joe lead the charge to recovery. Joe Biden Gets It!

  • It never ceases to amaze me how we could see an intellectual debate as a championship heavyweight fight or a barbaric cage fighting event with all the smoke and flashing lights and aggressive soundtracks playing behind the “contestants”. They say Romney “thrashed” President Obama. VP Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. You would think these people are joking until you look in their eyes and see they are serious. We have a fascination with these pin headed muscle-bound people with veins snaking all over their bodies and their eyes bulging in steroid adrenalin. But let’s face it, man, those debates are not just games. they are determinants of the people who are attempting to become a part of our very lives for the next four years. History shows us they can improve our lives or place us in the mess we’re in, and it’s not a matter of whether they are Republican/Tea Party, Communists, Independents, or Democrats, if the betterment of the country and “all” of the American people is n their hearts, we should support them. We have people who don’t have a pot to piss in or a windw to throw it out talking about they don’t want any “communist” or “mullah” taking away what’s theirs and giving it to “moochers” and “slackers”, saying that millionaires and billionaires shouldn’t have to be asked to pay extra taxes for the benefit of raising America out of its economic diilemma. Then you have these same people seeking to be leaders in America saying that 30% of Americans are slackers and 47% of Americans don’t pay taxes and are moochers off of the government, and they don’t want “their” money (taxes) paying for their “dependency” on government. It amazes me, man. . . I don’t know much about history, don’t know much biology; don’t know much about the French I took, don’t know how a slide-rule would look, but I do know that one and one is two, and what I saw in the debates last night were two intelligent individuals who gave us a look at who they are and how they stand. I know where my vote will go, and I hope you do as well. VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!

    • ExPAVIC

      Robert

      Amuse me, but don’t confuse me, leaving me in the lurch.

  • V.P Biden made Paul Ryan look stupid in this debate

  • Wow….amazing how much blue colored glasses can slant reality. I am an independent. I voted for Obama last election (McCain/Palin – really?). Biden looked like a cynical, bitter old man last night. Obama looked like a deer caught in the headlights and reminded me of Bush Jr….stumbling and bumbling. Based on this debate and the Presidential one, I will not be voting for him again.

  • 1standlastword

    I mercilessly fantasize Ryan as a two-time looser…bye bye veep dreams, bye bye congressional seat!

    He should get out of politics and take up an academic post at one of those wayside conservative “universities” –but you, know he won’t .

    He’ll continue on a self defeaing path towards self-destruction until he falls to Palin/ Bachmann status

    GOP rising star!?

    Stars are brightest just before they BURN OUT!

  • James C, I tried to reply to your comment and it wouldn’t let me. One day, I had a picture of Ryan and took a black magic marker and put a cape on him. Then I lined the cape collar in red. It was interesting.

  • rickcain2320

    Biden is very intelligent and has a huge ability to recall facts. He’s very much like Clinton in that regards. If you debate him its like getting into a gunfight and you’re holding a jelly donut.
    Ryan found out that parroting Fox News talking points isn’t going to cut it.

  • rickcain2320

    In the end you will have to do the math, and Ryan wasn’t able to explain how his numbers would add up.

    • lana ward

      Ryan was interrupted everytime he tried to explain anything

      • DurdyDawg

        How can you explain a lie..?

        • lana ward

          Biden was rude and condes cending. Fact checkers have found half of what he said were lies, so he’s a liar too. As of last night. 4 states leaning Obama, are now toss ups. Americans don’t like liars

        • BDC_57

          She can’t explain the lie, cause lana believes all ther lies.

  • one_veteran

    Could ANYONE! tell me ONE TIME Congress has closed One Loophole, or done away with ONE Deduction for the people making more than $100,000.00 a year?

    • grammyjill

      never

  • darkagesbegin

    I don’t need no real news–I got fox

  • Most people are NOT in agreement that it was closer to a tie.

  • Paul Ryan last nite got bitch slap & pistol-whip by the truth. GO JOE

  • ridemybroom

    Paul Ryan of got the math right….believe it or not….comes from right wing blogs….internet blogs…..what a dork and a embarassment he is for this country…shot himself right in the foot last night…Ryan’s a laff a minute….lol…one other thing…this man knows nothing about centerfugees or radiation…what a hypocrit he has become…

  • Rude, manic and liar are the 3 words to describe Joe Biden in this debate. He interupted Paul Ryan 82 times for the rudeness. His flashing of his teeth and laughing while discussing the possibility of thermonuclear war with Iran show his manic side. And then telling the world he didn’t vote for military action in both Iraq and Afghanistan, when he voted for both, liar. The $5 trillion line was, according to the man whose study the Obama campaign keeps using, another lie. And the lies just keep on coming. Let’s not even bother to get into the Libya lies, to say nothing of his throwing Hillary Clinton under the bus with them. If he and the president didn’t know about the requests for more security in Libya, then, maybe, they should have attended the daily security briefings that Obama has been to in 6 months. Joe Biden is a joke.

  • lana ward

    Obama sent Ambassador Stevens to aid al-Qaida affiliated rebels who not only raped and murdered him, but Stevens was sent unprotected to deliver tens of thousands of surface-to-air missiles and other weapons, which are now in the hands of al-Qaida allies. These missiles are capable of taking down every US airliner on the planet at any time. Obama wanted the enemy to have these weapons, that’s why potection was not sent when Stevens begged for it over and over. In his diary he wrote he was in fear for his life–still no protection– OBAMA IS A MURDERER!!!!

  • Mitt&Romney can’t be trusted with what they say because they keep changing what there going to do

  • onedonewong

    The only take away from the debate was that the crazy uncle got lose from the basement and that he could have his finger on the US nuclear arsenal should scare the heck of any rational person.
    It was watching a nut job sneering and smirking and never having any facts at hand.
    The most telling part from debate was Biden jumping up when Ryan brought up Romney’s personal charity work. And old Joe biteeme responded what policy has he ever implemented. Just showing how upside down Biteeme’s world view is. He contributes no more than $500 a year to charity but he sure is good at spending OTHER people’s $$$ never his own

  • Well if you diehard republicans want a return to the George W. Bush era with all its wars, deaths and waste of american taxpayer treasury, the nvote for him. If you want a rational approach to foreigh planning, civil improvements and vast living improvements for the middle class of americans, vote for Obama and give his support in the house and senate

  • Is anyone else concerned about the growing evidence that in terms of personal behaviors, we as a society are more willing to allow people to be about perception, rather than substance? In other words, a person- especially one with a certain level of “power” real or perceived, can tell open lies, paint any kind of image of a situation, and as long as he/she looks smooth and polished while doing so, people assessing them will actually be convinced that they’re the “best” candidate? Is that where the ability of the American electorate is in it’s ability to critically think about real issues? I f so, this is appalling. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of Joe Biden’s “performance” the other night. In truth, Ryan was the one “performing,” while Biden told it like it is, and stood not only for what he personally believes and has always believed and stood for, but also in the bigger picture did not allow attempts to mislead the voting public, to tell mistruths or hide important, insightful details( which reveal a staggering hypocrisy and lack of disregard for the cares and concerns of a significant portion of our country’s inhabitants). In general, why is is considered okay in certain circles of our culture to be aggressive on the offense, but not to aggressively defend one’s point of view- especially if those points of view are not in line with the rehetoric of the aggressor? We’ve all been in situations where the claims and accusations are so ridiculous, the attempt at manipulation so evident, that we have had to laugh- I am glad Biden let us know exactly what was going on- he didn’t have to tell us- and that is what good, effective communication is all about. In any situation, crisis or not, I would much rather know that Joe Biden is on it!

  • THE REPUBLICAN LIES ARE COMING HOME TO ROOST!

  • Soapm

    No one talks about the elephant in the room, Romeny says he will eliminate the capital gains and inheritance tax. That will take his effective tax rate from 14% to 0%. And he says this won’t favor the rich. I don’t care how many loop holes you close, when you eliminate the only tax you pay then you can close all the loop holes and you still owe $0.

  • FredAppell

    What is your problem Eduardo? Are you worried about the outcome of the elections? Why else would you continually post on a forum that you deem a cesspool? You never have anything useful to add to the conversation except to insult people for exercising their First Amendment rights. People that act like you usually do so because they’re afraid. Is that it Eduardo, did I touch a nerve? Well comrade, it’s been great chatting with you, hope the families doing great and give my love to the wife and kids. Oh I almost forgot! See you at the meetings comrade. Best wishes Fred