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Friday, March 22, 2019

Sometimes it is better to be wrong, and this election is definitely one of those times.

More than a year ago, I posted a column that inquired whether Donald Trump is “a real live fire-breathing fascist.” Based on what we had seen from him and his campaign even by then — his appeals to racial and religious bigotry, his xenophobic and truculent attitude toward other nations, his endorsements of violence, and his extremist “solution” to illegal immigration — the direction was disturbingly clear if not yet conclusive.

We have seen much more since then, of course. Trump has undermined the integrity of the democratic process itself, while suggesting he will refuse to accept the election result if he doesn’t win. He has urged his supporters to commit acts of violence, to intimidate opposition voters based on race or ethnicity, and he has publicly promised to imprison his opponent. He has questioned the independence of the judiciary and repeatedly menaced the media, bullying individual reporters and fulminating about harsher libel laws. And he has appointed a leading exponent of the “alt-right,” a man known for anti-Semitic outbursts and paranoid politics, to run his campaign.

The conclusion is inescapable: Whether or not Trump consciously considers himself a fascist, like the unsavory “alt-right” thugs who lionize him, he represents a fascistic current in American politics. If empowered on Election Day, that force is certain to inflict grave and perhaps irreparable damage to democracy as well as the future of this country and the planet. Already his movement has done the nation serious harm.

But the upwelling of authoritarian attitudes in and around the Republican Party anticipated Trump’s own rise by well over a decade. The polarizing anger, paranoid ideology, and uncompromising extremism that he has come to personify were all first exploited by Newt Gingrich, now a Trump adviser and surrogate.

In the years that followed 9/11, incursions against democracy quickly ensued as the United States government declared its will to discard constitutional guarantees and international treaty obligations in the name of “fighting terrorism.” Now those themes are amplified by Trump — who provokes a potential rupture with NATO, threatens a return to waterboarding “and worse” forms of torture, and warns that as president he would “have to do things that were frankly unthinkable” in the past.

During George W. Bush’s second term, I wrote It Can Happen Here: Authoritarian Peril In The Age of Bush, a book outlining the dangers of that government’s violations of civil liberties, its alliance with repressive corporate and religious elements, its contempt for the Constitution, and its attempt to establish permanent partisan dominance over all three branches, “in a time of war.” The American electorate eventually dispensed with that regime’s most alarming attitudes and ambitions. But the political elements that yearned for authoritarian solutions remained active, and eventually reappeared, first as the Tea Party and then in the Trump movement.

My book derived its title and inspiration from It Can’t Happen Here, the 1935 anti-fascist bestseller by Sinclair Lewis, a long-forgotten work that is once again highly relevant with the rise of Trump. (So relevant that at a recent Clinton fundraiser in New York, Jake Gyllenhaal and Jon Hamm performed a scene from the eponymous Broadway play, based on the book, that Lewis opened to overflow audiences in 1936.)

 It Can’t Happen Here starts with the election of President Buzz Windrip, a charismatic politician with little intellectual curiosity but a great appeal to the regular guy; he is a man who “believes firmly in the superiority of anyone who possessed a million dollars” and considers almost all foreigners to be degenerate. He hates science and academia, flatters the ignorance of his followers, and presents himself as a defender of traditional values, righteousness, and godliness.

Windrip regularly and loudly expresses his contempt for the press (except the ultra-right Hearst media empire, precursor of the Murdoch machine), excoriating journalists for “plotting how they can put over their lies, and advance their own positions, and fill their greedy pocketbooks…” He often mentions that he has read the Bible at least a dozen times, although his religiosity is bogus. He regards himself as the only man who can solve the country’s dire problems, even if that means discarding constitutional procedures and protections. His populist rherotic is empty; his economic policy drives wages downward while his government implements a regressive tax system and a gigantic military buildup. To unite the country behind him, he plots a preemptive war against Mexico. After his election, there are no more, and his opponents are systematically imprisoned, exiled, or worse.

If the campaign of 2016 echoes many of the themes that Lewis embodied in Windrip, that’s because his book satirized fascist modes of thought — along with the deceptions and demagogy that might contrive to bring fascism to power in a democracy. Facing the election of 1936, and the perils of extremism at home and abroad, the great author, America’s first winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature, was deeply worried for democracy — just as we worry, 80 years later.

For this country’s sake, I wish I had been wrong last year about Trump and fascism, but I wasn’t. Today we must hope that the majority of Americans still cares enough for our institutions and freedoms to safeguard them from this vain, vengeful, and dangerous figure.

IMAGE: Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump speaks at a rally with supporters at High Point University in High Point, North Carolina, U.S. September 20, 2016. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst

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221 responses to “Fascism? Yes, It Can Happen Here”

  1. Stuart says:

    It’s no coincidence that Lewis also wrote “Elmer Gantry,” in 1926, the story of a corrupt evangelist, eerily predictive of the televangelist movement that came later.

  2. dbtheonly says:

    But in 1936 as now, all that evil needs to triumph is for enough good men to do nothin.

    Doremus Jessup thought it couldn’t happen here.

    My concern is that the hate, filth, and lies promulgated by Trump and the RWMO over years; will not easily be cleansed from our political system. I’m afraid something very important has been broken.

    • kep says:

      We have already seen this evil with the Emperor in power for the last 8 years. He has been the most divisive, destructive “leader” we have had in American history. And now the liberal communists want to put the most corrupt, most dishonest politician in American history in office. Sure seems like liberals really want to destroy America. We, the American people, will not allow this to happen.
      VOTE TRUMP.

      • Dan S says:

        After today’s election you may return to your cave or whatever hole you crawled out of. We need adults to run this country not dictators

        • kep says:

          After today’s election, Americans will start taking their country back from the corrupt ruling elite liberals. Then you and your ilk can go back to whatever country you came from.

          • Dan S says:

            You mean the United States of America ???????? ? Your sick mindset will be relegated to making your ugly comments on these boards but you wouldn’t dare speak like this in polite company. These ruling elite liberals as you call them saved this country from the 2008 meltdown & got bin laden after Bush wasted several years going after Saddam Hussein who was not complicit in the 911 attacks. Anyone who understands how our constitution works knows there’s no path to 270 for Trump to win today

          • kep says:

            The only that corrupt lying bitch gets into office is if she buys, threatens, or steals it. It won’t be because she won it fairly. How can any reasonable person even consider another politician after all the corruption that has been brought to light. And Hillary is the most corrupt of them all.

          • The lucky one says:

            And Trump is one of those feeding that corruption. What makes you see him as a savior?

          • kep says:

            He’s not a corrupt politician.

          • jmprint says:

            He is a corrupted individual, doesn’t need to get elected to see that.

          • The lucky one says:

            The evidence of his corruption is overwhelming and why would “politician” not apply to someone running for office.

          • jmprint says:

            Kep you are the only lying bitch, Hillary is an honorable women as The Obama’s are, you are a low class citizen unable to appreciate God’s culturally world. Russian has a nice little corner you where you can run and hide.

          • kep says:

            Yes COMRADE. The Emperor is so trustworthy. He never lies. LOL. And Hillary never does anything for herself. Again , THE most corrupt bitch, that can only lie and serve herself, just like the Emperor. Both should be tried for treason and publicly executed.

          • Dan S says:

            And this is why you sit at the kids table instead of with the adults. You can believe whatever lies & falsehoods you want about the outcome of the election, they will still be just that lies perpetrated by Trump

          • idamag says:

            The profile on trolls, like kep, is that they are angry and hateful and scared and hide behind the anonymity of the internet.

          • Mama Bear says:

            and cry like little girls.

          • Jon says:

            We can only pray voters sweep all of those corrupt ruling elitist Republicans out of the Senate and House where they carry out their plan to destroy American values and institutions while making themselves and their families and friends rich.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            You are correct. We do plan to take YOUR country back. We plan to take you hicks so far back that you will think twice about leaving your Neanderthal caves. That way you and YOUR ilk can fly your Stars and Bars, keep your KKK White National Supremacist movements inside your caves where we don’t have to see or hear your fat mouths.

        • idamag says:

          Back to the butt scratching farmers (and not all farmers are stupid, just the isolated ones) spitting, dipping flies out of their coffee in the local café, where they gather to complain about the gov’mint while waiting for their subsidies.

      • The lucky one says:

        Regardless of who wins we may well have the “most dishonest politician in American history in office”.

        • Mama Bear says:

          can you please cite the reference materials and comparison charts you gathered to make this allegation?

          • The lucky one says:

            Do your own research. Who is more corrupt? I don’t know. Which smells worse cow or horse shite?

          • Paul Bass says:

            Since HRC has NEVER been convicted of ANYTHING and Trump has been CONVICTED of multiple felonies, WHO is corrupt? Your loser, DJT.

          • The lucky one says:

            We’re all the losers no matter which of the two demagogues wins.

          • jmprint says:

            NO, if HIllary wins, we ALL move forward. If Trump wins we move backwards.

          • The lucky one says:

            Strongly agree with your 2nd statement but strongly disagree with your first. I’d love for you to be right but I see no evidence to support such optimism.

          • jmprint says:

            We have no choice, we the people can make the difference, we stand our ground and demand accountability from both side. No more abortion and LGBT rights attachment to bills trying to get to the president’s desk. I feel we allowed congress to pussyfoot around too long. With Hillary that’s possible, with Trump not at all, he has no self control. No one can control the idiot.

          • dpaano says:

            I heard that his “handlers” took away his “tweeter” this past week-end in the hopes that he wouldn’t screw up again so close to the election day!!! I think that’s hilarious! If they have to do that to keep him in line, who’s going to keep him in line if he’s elected as president?

          • jmprint says:

            I don’t think Kellyanne can keep breast feeding Trump through his whole presidency.

          • dpaano says:

            Just keep thinking positively, okay?

          • The lucky one says:

            I’m trying, believe me. We must hold Clinton’s feet to the fire on the campaign promises she made or we might as well have picked Trump. (I have to admit that thought nearly makes me vomit)

          • idamag says:

            Breitbart is the main source of all those allegations, even though the media picked them up and they showed up all over the internet. If lucky was really in favor of honesty, he would check out independent sources and not the lying sites. One of the prosecution team for Whitewater has expressed his feeling wrong for that investigation and is endorsing Hillary. When we can disregard war crimes and the convicted criminals that perpetuated them, and made big issues over e-mails that have not been found to have put our national security in danger, we are sinking low and need to get more educated.

          • Mama Bear says:

            I think it’s time to block him too.

          • idamag says:

            That site needs to be charged with libel. The more we have let people spout hate and lies in the name of freedom of speech, the worse they have gotten. In an ideal society we would not need laws, but this is not an ideal society. Far from it.

        • jmprint says:

          No Trump is not winning, he is the most corrupt human being, I know.

      • jmprint says:

        WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAY, NO you are wrong we will vote for keeping America Great, the America you don’t appreciate. Don’t like move back where your ancestor came from, you have that option.

        • kep says:

          This IS my ancestral home. Perhaps you should find a place more to your liking in perhaps North Korea.

          • Jon says:

            No one was talking about pedophiles. I am sure you are proud of them just as you are of the pedophile who is running for president.

          • kep says:

            I hadn’t heard that about Bill, but it is not surprising, considering he got away with rape. Hillary threatened all his accusers. How many bodies have the Clinton’s left in their wake? Funny how so many people die once they cross them.

          • jmprint says:

            “Hillary threatened all his accusers” I would have done a whole lot more the threaten.

          • Paul Bass says:

            And what tribe are you from?

            This can’t be your “ancestral” home, unless you are Native American, so which is it? Yea, right.

          • jmprint says:

            Kep this is home and has been for 7 generations in my family, so don’t think this America is only your.

    • dpaano says:

      Hopefully, DB, Trump’s loss will signal a change in the Republican party and get them back to where they were years ago when they learned to work together with Democrats to get things done for the people of this country and NOT just for their party! They have forgotten this totally…..the party doesn’t pay their salaries….we do, and they need to work for US and not just for their party!

      • dbtheonly says:

        I’d certainly like you to be right, but look at kep. President Obama as the most divisive leader ever? It’s a laughable concept unless you define divisive as not doing everything the Republicans want. And even then, Obamacare/Romneycare, they won’t go along. Emperor? Hah! I’d like to see President Obama shoot lightning out of his fingers. I’ve got some suggestions for targets.

        Admittedly the Radical Rich don’t pay Congress’ salary, but they do fund the campaigns. The RWMO can talk hate and paranoia; without ever suffering any consequences. They get their ratings, and who cleans up the mess?

        And here’s hoping that this is still our biggest worry tomorrow morning.

  3. Mama Bear says:

    I prefer the flip side of this…our democracy has been tested, battered and nearly broken over her history. But we as a free people have never allowed her to be overcome by evil. I, for one, do not believe these Trump followers are “man enough” (I cannot use the term brave to describe them) to actually leave their homes (or caves as the case may be) and their little women to take up arms and fight to the death. But I know that the defenders of our Constitution and our Republic are man and woman enough to put them down.

  4. Theodora30 says:

    And never forget the role the mainstream “liberal” media has played in helping legitimize a clearly unfit candidate while willingly playing along with right wing operatives trashing Hillary. The willingness of both The NY Times and the WaPost to make a deal with Breitbart guy Peter Schweitzer to use the “research” from his screed “Clinton Cash” in their reporting is truly frightening.
    Even more terrifying is learning that a powerful cabal in the FBI’s New York office also relied on Schweitzer’s discredited work to push hard for an investigation of the Clinton Foundation. Even worse these law enforcement officials think the con man Trump is a good choice for President. Fascism cannot succeed without the aiding and abetting of law enforcement.

    • Dominick Vila says:

      All of this while letting the Trump Foundation off the hook, even when pay for play evidence, such as the $25K given to Florida’s Attorney General, and her dropping plans to investigate Trump “U” are revealed. As disturbing as the FBI’s indifference to this issue was, the media silence, while continuing to beat the drums of war against the Clinton Foundation, are deafening and frightening.

      • CrankyToo says:

        I predict the Fourth Estate will turn its guns on the malevolent Trump empire post-election.

        • sigrid28 says:

          A Trump presidency allows the Fourth Estate to make money (via ratings) by both following Trump’s exploits in office as well as the excesses of the clown car known as his cabinet AND explore the unsavory past of all these colorful personalities AT THE SAME TIME–until the press is muzzled by the gradual transformation of our democracy into a fascist regime. The shadier the types appointed to a Trump cabinet the more he (and the smarter and stronger types manipulating him) can control them via blackmail and the other methods that suppress opposition to fascist regimes elsewhere on the planet. By that time, truth will no longer be available in the media. True information will have to go underground. The half of the U.S. population that condemns this turn of events may find itself without a reliable source of information. How odd to be in the position of the French Resistance during World War II, relying on secrecy, loyalty, and valor to defy evils we might have averted had we acted in time. Who was it that said, those who refuse to learn history are condemned to repeat it.

      • idamag says:

        And if we accept that without a thorough investigation, we are aiding and abetting criminal behavior.

    • kep says:

      The liberal media has been propping her up since the beginning. She IS a corrupt lying bitch, that should be in prison, not running for office.

  5. Dominick Vila says:

    As bad as his overt attempts to appeal to white supremacists are, the most dangerous, because of its lasting effect, are his promises to destroy everything this country stands for. His followers may not realize it yet, but destroying our institutions of government, isolating the USA from the rest of the world, building walls, banning people from other cultures to enter the USA, supporting nuclear proliferation, suggesting that we may not come to the aid of our allies if they are attacked, cancelling trade agreements and international accords, and all the other promises Trump has made, partly in the pursuit of saving a “master race”, and largely because he does not have anything constructive to propose, are likely to turn the USA into a pariah, destroy our economy, would result in massive unemployment, and would destroy our international credibility and ability to lead.
    Our choice today is between going back to the Jim Crow era, embracing early 20th century processes while the rest of the world moves forward to, allegedly, bring jobs back to America, and engaging in persecuting similar to what took place in the Joe McCarthy days; and looking at our future with optimism by building on to the progress that has already been achieved.

    • kep says:

      If America wants to move forward, instead of becoming a third world country, we need to get rid of the corrupt ruling class and liberals. Talk about Jim Crow. That was Democrats.

      • Paul Bass says:

        Wow, kep, you just keep digging that hole deeper, don’t you?

        Just keep proving what a racist, bigoted, Fox mouthpiece that you are. No one here at NM believe you.

        • kep says:

          How can liberals believe anything when all your leaders do is lie?

          • Jon says:

            Try looking at PolitiFact or any of the other nonpartisan fact checking organizations. You will find Trump is in a class by himself. There has never been a politician who lies as much as he does. Hillary rates as one of the most honest. You can’t handle the truth.

          • kep says:

            God, you people are clueless.

          • jmprint says:

            You aren’t even up to clueless. You have nothing there but negativity and don’t know why other then others have told you, you should be.

        • idamag says:

          During Jim Crow the South was Democrat or as they, classed themselves, Dixiecrats. They became Democrats when a Republican Administration freed the slaves. Then when a Democrat signed Civil Rights into law, they became Republicans and turned the Grand Old Party into the disgrace it is now.

      • jmprint says:

        The only way it will turn into a third world country is if Trumpf gets elected, not you or me will be able to progress, it won’t be foreigners begging, it will be all of us, the middle class and the poor.

      • CrankyToo says:

        Didn’t I set you straight on that point just yesterday? You don’t seem to be paying attention, Dickiebird, so I’ll tell you again…..

        The Dixie Democrats to which you refer abandoned the Democrat Party and joined the Republicans after the Democratic President, LBJ signed the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 and 1968. And the GOP is still fomenting their racist attitudes 5 decades later – which is why the party of Lincoln has morphed into the party of lowlifes (like Trump and yourself).

  6. FireBaron says:

    Trump first said he would refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of the Republican nomination process unless he was the nominee. Now he says he refuses to acknowledge the electoral process unless he is the victor. Does this sound like Maduro? Ortega? Putin? Mugabe? Assad? It does to me.

    • The lucky one says:

      What I don’t get is why it matters that he refuses to accept defeat. Would it matter if Cleveland didn’t accept the outcome of the series? If Indian fans went around claiming they had been robbed first they would have been jeered and laughed at and then just ignored. Same for Trump’s knuckle draggers.

      • Mama Bear says:

        One difference…the Indians did not stand up every chance talking about anarchy and that if they lose it was rigged. The Indians did not preach hate, bigotry, misogyny, xenophobia and homophobia.

        • kep says:

          Liberals do though. It’s their go to position.

          • Paul Bass says:

            Ever notice how GOP projects their beliefs and hatreds onto “liberals”? Yea, they got nothing.

          • idamag says:

            I’ve always said Liberals are too nice. I think Bill Maher said it best: “The Republicans are the party of mean and the Democrats are the party of wimps.” Even though Democrats should be more assertive, they are the party for all the people and do the most good for civilization.

          • Mama Bear says:

            it’s called gaslighting, Paul and they have perfected the sickness.

          • idamag says:

            Prime example: during the debates trump referred, often, to Hillary’s hateful attack ads. She was playing clips of things he said.

          • jmprint says:

            No, it’s your opinion, get out and talk to people instead of sitting in front of the tube.

        • The lucky one says:

          Yes the Indians lost with class, something Trump knows nothing about but who cares whether he accepts it or not. If the knuckle draggers that support him riot then they’ll be dealt with. Don’t think for a moment they won’t be crushed.

          • kep says:

            We apparently need another revolution. This may just set it off.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Ooooooh Yesssssssssssss! A revolution…So we can beat Kep’s butt silly. Hey stupid! If the north had not paid the south war reparations, you KKK sharecroppers would still be picking cotton and chopping firewood.

            Go ahead! Some of us would love a second chance to beat your butts AGAIN! and this time you won’t get one dime of war reparations. You make it ON YOUR OWN or Else!

          • Mama Bear says:

            not to worry….kep, trump and the rest of them are not brave enough to put their pathetic lives on the line.

          • idamag says:

            But it is okay to send other people’s kids to die.

          • idamag says:

            And this time, make sure they do not start another civil war to protect their hate and biases.

          • The lucky one says:

            It won’t come from Trump supporters. They need to outnumber and out weigh opponents in order to have the guts to challenge anyone.

        • idamag says:

          And when those ships were approaching Boston Harbor the Indians did not ask for green cards.

      • CrankyToo says:

        It only matters that Congress acknowledges the legitimacy of the outcome.

      • I Am Helpy says:

        “WHAT COULD GO WRONG WITH ANOTHER CIVIL WAR?”

        Again: You. Are. An. Actual. Moron.

      • dpaano says:

        Now you’re talking apples and oranges here…..Trump’s refusal to politely concede should he lose is totally different from a baseball game upset! This election is NOT a baseball game!

        • The lucky one says:

          Yes maybe not a good analogy. My point is that who cares whether he politely concedes. If Clinton gets the requisite votes she is the winner. We already know Trump won’t go gracefully. When has he ever shown any grace win, lose or draw? The only real danger is random violence from Trump’s racist contingent but I think we will see that no matter how Trump reacts to defeat. The empowerment of racists has already occurred and the bell cannot be un-rung. It’s up to each one of us to combat it when it appears and then the cowards will crawl back to their holes.

        • idamag says:

          Bears repeating, “This election is not a baseball game.” American government is not a game where there are winners and losers and the winners get to violate every faction of our government by getting even with the winner.

  7. The lucky one says:

    “But the upwelling of authoritarian attitudes in and around the Republican Party” The authoritarianism exists in the Democratic party as well. Obama and Clinton are both elitist authoritarians, just more sophisticated and not vulgar like Trump.

    • Mama Bear says:

      You are blind.

      • The lucky one says:

        Why, because I don’t agree with you. I see both as corrupt so if one of us is blind i’d suggest it most likely is you.

        • Eleanore Whitaker says:

          People who see Hillary as corrupt are people who have no real patriotism for the U.S. Constitution. So anytime YOU are ready to give up 4 decades of your life in service to your country as Hillary has, let us know. Till then you are nothing more than a coward who can’t learn what the word patriot means.

          • The lucky one says:

            Your first sentence doesn’t even make any sense. Hillary gave up 40 years of service to the 1% and she has been handsomely rewarded for her efforts.

            So for you a good patriot is someone who uses politics to enrich themselves.

          • Mama Bear says:

            You are very good at gaslighting. Where did you learn that skill?

          • The lucky one says:

            Not much danger of “gaslighting” – a form of psychological abuse in which a victim is manipulated into doubting their own memory, perception, and sanity. I haven’t seen many Trump or Clinton fans that would be susceptible since both groups are absolutely certain that their beliefs are the only rational opinions.

          • idamag says:

            Taking a page from Goebbels’ book, if they say it often enough people will believe it.

          • dpaano says:

            That the Fox Network mantra…..

          • kep says:

            You really make me I’ll. You haven’t a clue what it is to be a patriot.

          • kep says:

            Hillary is a corrupt lying bitch that is only interested in serving herself

        • Mama Bear says:

          again I ask that you provide me with all your research data and comparison lists on your allegation. I doubt you can supply anything substantive. Why? Because I, like many intelligent people have done exhaustive research on both candidates and Bernie and John Kasich as well. The only “proof” of Hillary’s corruption is in your mind. Prove it to me or go back to Fox Entertainment for your information.

    • Paul Bass says:

      Another example of false equivalency.

      Like deleting personal emails is WORSE than assaulting woman.
      Yea, right.

      • The lucky one says:

        Do some research on the connections between ultra-lobbyist Podesta and Clinton. Can’t say who is worse since both candidates are horrible. I have a stronger visceral aversion to Trump however.

        • jmprint says:

          Look and Guliani, Bannon, Stone. Hate, conspiracy and total jerks, that’s your ilk.

          • The lucky one says:

            Sure they’re jerks but that’s irrelevant regarding Hillary’s corruption. Taking an obnoxious stance against any one daring to question their hero is a characteristic equally shared by Trump and Clinton fans.

          • jmprint says:

            You can call Hillary corrupt when and if she gets indicted, before then, all it is is name calling. Trump has two court cases for fraud and racketeering, he is corrupted, your accusations are based a fiction book and movie, and a lot of wasted taxes money on the republican’s side in trying to find anything to make that statement relevant.

          • dpaano says:

            And, JM, you forgot, he’s also going to be thoroughly investigated by the IRS for tax fraud based on how he handled his $913B tax loss. Apparently, he was told that what he was doing was not good, but he did it anyway because…..well, because he’s Trump! Will wait to see if he ends up in jail like Martha Stewart and the others who tried to outwit the IRS!

          • jmprint says:

            Yes, I sure do hope they go back to his foundation, and investigate the Florida AG & Trump. Talk about pay-for-play.

          • kep says:

            What about Bill meeting the AG just before the FBI was to indite Hillary ?

          • The lucky one says:

            By that standard none of the sitting congress or scotus are corrupt. Do you really believe that?

          • dpaano says:

            I don’t understand your analogy? Can you explain what you mean?

          • The lucky one says:

            jm said that Hillary can’t be called corrupt unless she gets indicted. Few of the members of congress have been indicted despite, IMHO, rampant corruption in that body.

          • jmprint says:

            I believe there is a lot of greed and I believe there are a lot of rich people that believe that because they have a lot money they can dictate how and what decisions we the people can make pertaining to our own lives. Corruption started when the Europeans landed and started stealing land, from landowners. The corruption I hate, is the kind that exploits people, ie what’s happening to the Dakota Indians.

          • The lucky one says:

            I think we mostly agree except that I see Hillary as being as corrupt as most of her peers. Lack of an indictment is not proof of innocence. I do think it’s hard to discern the truth with all the propaganda put out by both sides. We probably both agree that Trump is a disgusting POS.

        • dpaano says:

          Good for you…..at least you can see that Trump is not the answer. I respect your feelings and applaud you. As for Podesta and Clinton….I have nothing to say because I really haven’t delved into this much.

          • The lucky one says:

            If you would like more info on the Podesta-Clinton relationship watch this video, about 24 min. It’s not Breitbart, Fox or any of the other right wing propaganda sites.

            http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/38282-abby-martin-exposes-john-podesta

          • dpaano says:

            Thank you….will take some time and watch the video.

          • The lucky one says:

            I’d be interested to hear what you think. It’s not that often that you run into people here that disagree but are open to discussion. Too may are like helpy, so high on himself that anyone not totally following his view is not only wrong but is at best stupid and at worst evil. His personality is more suited to the Trump camp. Hillary generally carries herself with some class.

          • kep says:

            And maybe you should. Information, not liberal lies and propaganda, are WHAT you should be delving into. Maybe then you would awake from the brainwashing you were subjected to.

      • kep says:

        Are you talking about Bill? He’s the only one that has actually assaulted anyone, with Hillary doing damage control by threatening his accusers,

        • Paul Bass says:

          “Consenting adults” is NOT assault.

          Unlike Trump’s RAPE of a 13 year old girl. Yea, right, just like I said, False Equivalency.

          • idamag says:

            Kep probably wants sexual assault legal and I would wonder why. Grabbing a woman’s crotch is sexual assault. This is not a story made up to discredit a person. It is true. I heard it from Trump’s mouth. Walking in on Miss Universe Pageant contestants while they were changing clothes is abhorable. I heard trump admit to this. Walking in on Miss Teen America contestants puts him at the bottom of humanity.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            I had the misfortune back in the late 70s to read a NY Daily News story about the Trumps. One of the most glaring things that the article unintentionally showed was that since his birth, Donald Trump was so overindulged by his mother that his father was forced to send him to military school to get him out from under his mother’s control. That was the beginning of Trump’s hatred for his father. That money his father gave him was a kind of “payoff” to get his son out of his hair.

          • dpaano says:

            I don’t know the story, but I would certainly believe that!

          • idamag says:

            I read, in one of the biographies, about trump, that he was incorrigible and was shipped off to military school.

          • dpaano says:

            I’ve heard the same thing……from what I understand, he never got along with his father and was constantly coddled by his mother….this is why he was sent off to military school. Apparently, he didn’t learn anything there!

          • idamag says:

            The fact that there are trumps and hitlers born in this world is not the most disturbing thing. The most disturbing thing is the sleazes that will vote for them and back them.

          • kep says:

            You for got Emperor Obama and the Clinton’s

          • kep says:

            They were not consenting. It was rape and assault. As for minors, I did hear Hillary laughing on tape while she talked about how she destroyed a 12 year old girl to get her guilty rapist client off.
            You listen to too much liberal propaganda.

          • Paul Bass says:

            No proof, AND false Equivalency. Jackpot double!

            HRC did NOTHING, all you got is smears on her husband, nice.

            So Trump’s rape is equal to Bill having consensual “contact” with adult women? And this proves Hillary corrupt?

            Yea, right, keep on digging kep, we still don’t believe you.

          • idamag says:

            Not one thing has been proven against Hillary, but we have trump’s own words as to what he is. The Republicans have sold their soles.

          • kep says:

            They sold their shoes?

          • Paul Bass says:

            And their souls! 🙂

          • idamag says:

            Oops (blushing). I really goofed. Sorry.

          • Paul Bass says:

            Please, don’t be! I had a fantastic image of suited up wall streeters selling their patent leathers to horned devils! You have a great day.

      • idamag says:

        That tells who they are, doesn’t it?

    • jmprint says:

      Last night when Trump said, this is OUR America, he wasn’t being inclusive, where is Clinton and Obama are working for everyone, that will work themselves. Nowhere close, sorry.

      • The lucky one says:

        “Clinton and Obama are working for everyone” That’s laughable.

        • Eleanore Whitaker says:

          Okay..Tell us how hard Ryan, McConnell, Cornyn, Grassley, Inofe, Cotton, Gowdy and Chaffetz worked for YOU.

          Can’t can you? Can you provide us with the number of jobs created by the Republicans these past 8 years? Or is sitting on their big fat butts collecting paychecks our tax dollars paid for your idea of “work?”

        • jmprint says:

          What did you not get out of the Obama administration, that you got from the Bush administration?

          • The lucky one says:

            False equivalence. Both were a disaster though I would consider Bush worse. Obama’s treatment of whistle blowers is a disgrace worse even than Bush.

          • dpaano says:

            And that’s it? That’s all you got from the Obama administration vs. the Bush administration? Seriously???

          • The lucky one says:

            No there are many differences but IMHO both served the 1% faithfully. Yes I know Obama didn’t start an unnecessary war like Bush.

      • kep says:

        Hillary and the rest of her ilk only serve themselves, and you people help them do so. Stupid liberals.

        • Eleanore Whitaker says:

          You and your nasty, meanspirited divisive jerks are gone tomorrow! Poof! See how easy it is to be rid of clowns like you?

          • dbtheonly says:

            Regrettably they are not gone tomorrow. They’ll still be at it. Refusing to even vote to fill Judicial appointments. Repealing Obamacare yet again. Holding yet another Benghazi investigation. Shuttling down the government over some “cause du jour”. Opposing everything. And complaining that government doesn’t work.

          • dpaano says:

            As I’ve said before….government “doesn’t work” because our government; i.e., Congress, Supreme Court, etc., have been run by Republicans for the last 8 years! They have done everything possible to hold this country back! What totally is ridiculous is that the Trump Followers just seem to want more of the same despite the fact that they feel our government “doesn’t work.” Stupid is as stupid does!!!

          • idamag says:

            Trump is who they are.

          • kep says:

            And here I thought you were safely in a padded cell where you couldn’t hurt anyone. Couldn’t afford the Obama care premium? President Trump will see you are safe.

        • jmprint says:

          What is your problem, why so much hate? Are you angry because this is not an all white world?

        • I Am Helpy says:

          Sorry you’re like this. Get better soon!

        • Sand_Cat says:

          Does it help your raging insecurity to try to pretend you’re actually smarter than someone else?

          • kep says:

            It doesn’t take an IQ over 50 to be smarter than any of you people.

          • dbtheonly says:

            Does kep use an overactive auto-correct, does he not edit his posts, or is English not his first language?

            I counted three errors.

          • kep says:

            Yes, auto correct is a pain, and no, I do not usually edit.
            It’s looking like the American people are smarter than you liberals think. Trump is way ahead. It will be so great to see our country back in the hands of thinking people. President Trump. I haven’t used the term president for some years now as the Emperor did not deserve the title.

        • Thoughtopsy says:

          Trump: Has not done one single thing that has served another person or community over his own interests for money, fame, celebrity, power or advantage. Everything he has ever done is through the lens of what benefit he personally gets out of it.

          This is the guy who takes Charitable donations from other organisations into his Foundation and either uses them to directly benefit himself (illegally), or “re-gifts” them as if he is the one giving the money…

          This is the guy who has screwed endless small businesses, investors, and students out of money to get more for himself.

          This is the guy who has managed to “fix” his accounting so he pays no Federal income tax for possibly 40 years, laughs about it, and tells everyone that it shows he’s smart…

          This is the guy who won’t release his tax returns because of what they will show about his robber baron business style that screws over literally everyone else.

          Yeah… it’s Hillary that’s self-serving.
          Sure.

          • kep says:

            I guess you applaud the corruption in our government. And you most likely believe that lying is now a virtue. Trump would not have my choice, but he is the only alternative to what our government has become. Do you like to see our country going down the toilet? Our economy is trashed, we are being overrun by illegals,, we have ISSIS cells in our country, we are losing our Constitution. We need someone that is not part of the corrupt system. Hillary is just more of the same, only worse. She has already demonstrated her total lack of any morals or judgement. If by some I’ll fated wind, most likely because she has already bought her way in, she wins , you will get EXACTLY what you deserve. But then, I doubt she would be there long, seeing she will be indicted for something, there is just soooooo much.

    • I Am Helpy says:

      You’re an actual moron and you shouldn’t have opinions.

      I hope that helps!

    • Thoughtopsy says:

      Hillary: “We’re all in this together. I will represent all Americans. Here are all my policies and plans.”

      Trump: “I’m the greatest. Only I can fix things. Only I know what is going on. I won’t tell you my plans, you just have to trust me.”

      Bluntly: You’re an idiot.

      • The lucky one says:

        LOL ” “We’re all in this together. I will represent all Americans.” – HRC You believe that tripe and you think I’m the idiot. Truly LOL

  8. Karen says:

    In an attempt to change the tone for a brief moment, it’s a beautiful fall day where I am located. Elections come and go, but take a second to observe the majesty of the changing seasons which marches on no matter what we think is important. The sun WILL come up tomorrow come what may. Everyone please get out and vote. And while you’re out take a deep breath of the air of freedom.

  9. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    Here is the reason WHY Fascism will NEVER happen here no matter how hard the Republicans try to divide us into tiny little factions:
    1. Americans with educations easily identify the causes of fascism
    2. Though it may seem less prevalent than in the past, religions and belief systems still hold weight.
    3. We will never EVER allow a tiny minority of bullies like Trump, Guiliani and his tiny weenies to be the rulers of anything but the local men’s rooms.
    4. Americans always move onward, forward and upward. The only ones who want to take the country back are the same hicks who play victim when it is their own fault for their mass unemployment, refusal to accept any changes, progress or advancement.

    It is easy to see WHO Trump supporters really are: The so-called disaffected, disconnected who disaffected and disconnected themselves by hanging on for dear life to their ancient culture of phony, baseless superiority that they hope will allow them to continue to feed off the rest of us.

    You get no help if you refuse to help yourself first.

    • Jon says:

      Most of them are too lazy to work and we have to rely on immigrants to do work they refuse to do. They are either too lazy or too dumb to get further education or training to stay apace of our changing economy again requiring educated immigrants to fill all of the positions. There are both skilled and unskilled positions available for them. They should only blame themselves but instead find scapegoats rather than face the truth.

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        Here in NJ, there are “Hiring” signs all over the place in our small factories and in the solar industry.

        I have relatives in the south and for the life of me I do not get why they “settle” for wages that are not remotely “living wages.”

        Walmart is failing here in NJ for one reason: They pay $8.40 to start with no benefits and then expect their workers to work overtime and on holidays on regular wages. Needless to say, they can’t keep full time workers and have the highest turnover.

        Hopefully, Hillary’s ideas of reinstating vocational schools who will teach today’s clean energy technologies will spur more to rethink their need for remedial education to fit the kinds of jobs that are actually out there.

        When I worked in environmental engineering for nearly 25 years, one of the things I saw in the last decade before I retired was just how technology affected mechanical design. From guys who were trained in drafting to the younger guys who came on board with full knowledged of 3D AutoCad, it was clear that technology had already affected engineering design, installation and repair of industrial air pollution controls.

        That mostly drove the oldest MSMEs crazy because they knew they had to get on board and learn the newest design technologies.

        • dpaano says:

          If this country is EVER going to progress, then we have to keep up with technology, especially those of us who are older. I am constantly learning new ways of doing things and am happy to say I’m doing my best to keep up. But, I have to admit, I don’t have a lot of the technical skills that my younger friends have. But, I’ve never been afraid to learn something new!!! We ALL have to get off our butts and learn new things; otherwise, we’re going to all stagnate sitting in our barcaloungers….much like the Trump followers. If they EVER want to get ahead, they have to go with the times and learn new technology; otherwise, they aren’t going anywhere and it doesn’t matter WHO is elected president!

    • idamag says:

      Eleanor, you are a brilliant woman and I agree with a lot you say. However in order to stay intelligent a person needs mental stimulation. There are a few and you are probably acquainted with them, who are too intelligent not to recognize what is happening. There are quite a few who are not intelligent and have to rely on their ideology. I have some brilliant friends and we can have some stimulating conversations, however, in my state there are many many more of the other kind so maybe I am jaded.

    • dpaano says:

      As I’ve said before, Trump followers are dissatisfied with our government and the lack of anything being accomplished in the past 8 years…..BUT, they blame the wrong person. They have no one to blame but themselves for continuously electing and re-electing Republican congressmen and women. These are the people who have chosen to do nothing in the past 8 years to help the U.S. citizens! It is the Republicans in Congress who have gone against everything that our president has proposed just because their party says they should do so…..at the peril of the American people. And, now, the same people that are so dissatisfied with the government are going to vote for the SAME people who have done nothing for them the past 8 years except hold them back! It’s astounding that they don’t seem to understand that…..they want to blame our president for everything that has gone wrong with our government during his administration….but, they are blaming the WRONG people! If only they were smart enough to realize this….but apparently some of them are not! This goes for the individual states also…..they continue to vote in the same group that has held them back for years and then turn around and blame our government again!

    • dbtheonly says:

      I’m afraid I’m going to join those disagreeing with you.

      It can happen here.

      Fascism isn’t going to come goose stepping with swastikas. It’ll come, like Buzz Windrip, as 100% Americanism.

      The Roman Church has sold out to one issue, you saw about St. Louis? The Evangelical Churches are cooped. The Mainstream Churches are growing old and tired.

      We will certainly never let Trump or Rudy run anything. “We” can be outvoted.

      America always moves forward? That’s the issue, isn’t it?

      Also want to echo dpanno.

    • Thoughtopsy says:

      I like your positivity, but I have to disagree.
      There’s a solid and somewhat mentally ill base of people out there ready for revolution… in the name of FREEDOM, of course.
      They do not have the critical thinking skills to understand the endgame of the manipulation that surrounds them is divide and conquer to control.

      They will do atrocious things just because someone told them that doing those things is American and results in more freedom. Just as Voter Suppression has been recast as “Voter ID” that “Protects our Democracy”. They demonstrably do not bother to look deeper than a slogan or headline, and apparently do not have the willingness or mental capacity analyse the orders and information they are fed for it’s obvious hypocrisies.

      They will help suppress, jail or kill everyone they consider “Other” with religious zeal… and cheer each other on as they “Make America Great Again” by purifying it.

      Then, as the great saying goes, there will be nobody left to resist when the “government” finally comes for them too.

  10. idamag says:

    I was a child when WWII ended. I saw the horrible newsreels of what was found in the camps. There was a picture of a man whose backbone you could see from the front of him. I formed a picture of what the German people must be to have allowed and participated in this horrid thing. The Allies rounded up the citizens and made them bury the skin covered bones that were once living humans. They had the female guards lined up. They were fat. Then to answer my question: “How could any human being do this?” I read every book on Nazi Germany and hitler I could. I read what was there prior to this atrocity. The world was in the throes of a depression. Germany, because of what they committed in WWI was in a worse state. They had been ordered to pay for the damage they did to the countries they attacked. Hitler’s first followers were thugs. He spread rumors about the weakness of the government. By teaching people their government was the source of all their trouble, he turned them against their democracy. He formed them enemies to hate and discriminate against. Among those enemies were Communists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Gays, Trade Unionists, Any darker skinned people, and Jews. Right now, our atmosphere is very much like it was when hitler was destroying democracy and claiming he would make Germany Great again.

    • Eleanore Whitaker says:

      Idamag..It was my former late father-in-law who spurred my interest in men who served in the military. He served in Fiji in the Army. Then, when I was president of our historical society, one of the oldest members served in WWII in Bari, Italy. He told of a story about mustard gas I thought maybe he remembered out of context. It was true.

      Trump goes away tomorrow. However, his nasty spiteful followers won’t so it will be up to us to restore peace and tranquility in this country by teaching them that they must make the changes first before we ever spend another dime helping them make excuses for their lack of ambition, progress and initiative.

  11. johninPCFL says:

    If he loses this time and won’t accept the results, what happens four years from now if he wins? What happens when he doesn’t accept the election results then, and is in control of the single most powerful fighting force in the world?

      • dbtheonly says:

        Discussion for another day: why I support a drafted Army.

        • dpaano says:

          Me too!!! I think our young people, both male AND female, should be required to serve at least 2 years in the military. I know, for a fact, that it certainly made me grow up very quickly! I never have regretted my service……23+ years worth….and would do it again if I could!

          • dbtheonly says:

            To my mind there are several advantages

            Economic, the pay for service members won’t have to be as high, though that might balance out by more of them.
            The military won’t be as isolated from society.
            The military won’t be a mercenary army.
            Presidents will be much less willing to send people into danger.
            Lots of people will have a chance to learn productive skills at government expense.

            A couple of hundred years ago British Army Commissions were purchased. They were expensive, but not crushingly so, particularly as when you’d buy a higher rank, you’d have your lower one to sell. But Army Officers would be from the “haves” of society and they’d have a stake in preserving that society from outside domination. They’d not be radical or revolutionary.

            Given Trump’s events with numerous General Officers, and given what I’ve hears about radical Christianity in the Army, a good dose of stake in the society seems to be missing.

            And a drafted Army is still composed of ordinary citizens. Can you imagine “7 Days in May” with the army of Beetle Bailey?

      • johninPCFL says:

        And it looks like we get to find out.
        Hitler won with 30-odd%, compared with Trump’s 50+%.

  12. Anna Maria Yoakum says:

    Where will all these Trumpets go and whatever will they do after the election and their exhalted dictator has gone ? Undoubtedly Trumpty-Dumpty will be all too busy with his many lawsuits and trying to keep his crumbling empire from falling into ruins, but alas his devoted brainwashed followers will have little left to debate and no one left that cares or will even listen to them.

    • dpaano says:

      Oh, I’m sure they’ll find something to bitch about……

    • Oddworld says:

      On the other hand it could also strengthen their resolve. Their refusal to accept the results, should Trump lose, will only deepen their mistrust of the system. Take it from someone from the far left who’s been there, they’ve been waiting a long time for someone like Trump to come along and legitimize their grievances. This particular election may become a catalyst for future elections. Not a pleasant prospect!

    • ivory69690@yahoo.com says:

      also he will either be putting his name of AIR FORCE ONE or putting all the things that plane has in one of his own planes . I wonder DONNY DUMP being such a bias , racist , hater as he is who is he going to get the better man then he will ever be out of the white house . he im sure will try with not caring how much of the tax payers money he uses to try to wash the black out of the white house . he will just have to live in the better black mans hand me down house . that reminds me ill have to send letters to the white house and address them too BROTHER DONNY DUMP hows the color in your new hood doing ?

  13. Leftout says:

    Joe, you are wrong on fascism , you of all people should know what the term means , you are grandstanding .

  14. ivory69690@yahoo.com says:

    ignorant is you that cant see facts . you cant seem to be realistic and rather be blind to the truth to each their own I guess . as for the tissue save it for yourself if you be it one of DONNY DUMP’S brain dead clowns . for its you that will need it when all the DUMPSTER’S bull he said don’t and wont get done NOTHING HE LIED what he dose best . as I stated one might feel the DUMPSTER is smart . when he fraud’s , cons and scams so many people (heck if your a taxes payer even you ) more with knowledge find him to be a plain dirt bag selfish and only thinks of him self . BUT I do believe the clown isn’t that stupid that he thinks he can do all the BULL he said at all his free clown shows . I do believe he knows this . lo in order to make the piece of what ever name of the DUMPSTER not be flushed in the toilet bowl where it belongs he will do things that are already been done and adding to it and trying to put the CLOWN’s name on it . the things that the country have with Pres. Obama are good things . not perfect ill admit to that but still good things that just need to be trimmed added to and fixed not replaced . if it been the GOP gang of pinheads was to even thy to have worked with the first black PRES. things today would be so much better . but with them is the same hate , bias , racist ,bigotry the DONNY DUMP has . ill explain thing if all the governors (the GOP ones ) was to have let the ACA into their states one can know instead of just 20 million people using the ACA today there could very well be over 100 million people having that as a part of there health care plan . and with those number across the country would surly bring and keep the cost down . so one can look and see if not for the hate, racist and bigotry and if the GOP was to just work together to better the country and been blind to color we would be in a lot better place now . dose one really feel we are in a worse place today then the country was in when the DIRTY BUSH was in office ?

  15. ivory69690@yahoo.com says:

    one dose have to look at this whole Trump being president one way if there is anyone that know the most about scum ball dealings it would be Donny himself he has done this his whole life . but no he is on the world stage and knows what people like and the good things of life . thy are every thing he has done on the other side of his life with all his bad . the good things are clear for him . and he knows them well for he stayed away from the them so long . now Donny is on the side of the fence where it would be a lot harder for him to pull the sneaky snakey things with out getting caught . for there’s a on him now . some that been on him most of his life like the IRS . but now the eyes of the government and the people watching very closely . will be hard to get anything by them all ( but being himself I believe there will still be things he will try ) cant get way from them thy run deep like his DNA . but really now its something bigger then anything else is on his mind and that’s HIS EGO that is bigger then a MT. Rushmore and him wanting for all to see him as this king of the world he very well be next working on a better name for himself now . and use all he knows from the dark side and shed the light on it all (doing this for sure will ad a bigger price to his in his mind all mighty name brand . so one might find him blocking all the loop holes he made so much money on and close them to all the 1&2 % of the rich greedy ones . his EGO to his name will over ride all else (MAYBE) heck no one knows he might be good for the country and the people . know he will never pa Pres. OBAMA did for this country . but can still do good in history . might say one can never believe what this guy did a biggest before and after for one man has done . he will be happy with that for his EGO . but if there is the gates at the end of life one has to answer too he will still have to deal with all the bad things in his life he did then

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