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Tuesday, October 25, 2016

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
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The Daily Show‘s Samantha Bee took on bullying this week — the bullying of evangelicals by gay people.

“The Christians that I talked to are intimidated,” radio host Matt Slick told Bee. “They’ll often get intimidated, they’ll often get persecuted … for just saying that they believe that homosexuality is wrong, or that homosexuals are sinful — just like adulterers, just like pedophiles, just like liars, just like thieves.”

“It was clear [that] intolerance towards Christians was a huge problem,” Bee reported, “in his mind.”

The far right is jealous of how much attention gay people get for being bullied. So what if suicide is the leading cause of death for LGBT teens who are disportionately homeless compared to heterosexual youth, and are more likely to be sexually victimized?

Gary Brown, an Atlanta pastor, claims that “there is a lot of bullying directed at Christian kids in public schools and the culture at large. So many teenagers are being ostracized for being a Christian.”

Despite this, examples of teens being kicked out of their homes or forced to move schools — as LBGT youth often are — after coming out as Christian are few and far between.

Slick warned that “homosexuals go out and find straights to beat up.” Clearly, he’s a South Park fan.

The supposed victimization of the majority is a favorite trope of the conservative movement, typified by the War on CHRISTmas, the topic of Sarah Palin’s forthcoming book. It will likely feature a chapter on Kwanzaa bullying America’s favorite holiday.

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  • Budjob

    Who cares?As far as I’m concerned it’s a small price for them to pay for preaching all the bullshit that they espouse.My religion is to treat ALL people fairly,honestly,and above all RESPECTFULLY!!If everyone would practice that philosophy,there would be no need for all the phony,voodoo,hogwash bullshit that the religious nutjobs throw at people!

    • RobertCHastings

      Thank you, sincerely, for that expression of disgust with the hypocrisy of supposed “Christians” whose public actions are the opposite of their religious protestations. Is that not the definition of hypocrisy? You and I both know that Christ would not have made such condemnation of “others” part of His ministry. He accepted “others” among his Apostles and carried his ministry to the most despised people of his era. IT IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS!

      • idamag

        There is a BIG difference in what tries to pass for followers of Christ and who Christ was.

        • Sand_Cat

          First of all, he wasn’t “Christ.” If in fact he claimed the title, it was “Messiah.” The man “Jesus” (also his name translated to Greek) has been mocked by “his” church since fairly early on, in my opinion, whether he claimed to be messiah or not.

          • RobertCHastings

            It’s not so much what He was called, but what He represents.

          • Sand_Cat

            My point is that what he represents is unknown, presented pretty much exclusively by “his” church, which can’t even get his name right.

          • RobertCHastings

            What Christ represents, whether He was real or not, is quite clear without the interjection of opinions from “his” church. All that is needed is a reading of our Bible unimpeded by the input of those who would try to influence you. If we want to ascertain what Superman represents, all we need do is read the DC Comics that depict him. The principle for the examination of the meaning of Christ is essentially the same as for any other investigation into truth

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            You can’t use the bible as a basis of truth for any investigation into what Jesus actually stood for.

            The bible as you see it today is an accumulation of hearsay, third party comments and beliefs that had been changed, re-written, striked-out and then put back in, reinterpreted hundreds of times. It was 150 years after jesus’s death that his thoughts were even put down on parchment.

            None of your bible contains Jesus’s direct words, directly from his mouth and not when he was alive.

            All these bits and pieces that were scattered through much of the middle east and europe were brought together as a unified whole as a readable old and new testament when Guttenberg Published it enmass, in mass readable form in the 1450s.

            This gave his believers, his church, 1400 years to interpet what someone else said about what jesus “might have said”.

            Even then, the “church” saw if fit to leave out many banned scriptures such as the Gospel of Mary, even the Gospel of Lucifer.

            So, no matter how you slice or dice it, our current-day bible can never be used to validate anything jesus might have actually said.

          • RobertCHastings

            While the first printed version did appear in the 1450’s, a conference at least a thousand years prior to that determined the structure of the Bible. This conference of bishops examined the existing texts and chose only those that adhered to orthodoxy, while all others were considered heretical. Bart Ehrman and Elaine Pagels are two Biblical scholars who have extensively studied the texts that were excluded and the additional texts that showed up at the Dead Sea and Nag Hamadi. Several of these texts were written by people who knew people who knew Christ. While this is third hand knowledge, it is much closer than the majority of the texts that were chosen for the Bible. Paul, who is said to have been the expert on Christ, never met Him, and quite probably never met anyone who actually knew Christ. The Bible is a compendium that advances an image of Christ that is advantageous to exactly what the Holy Church is practicing, exercising control over the masses through myth and its hierarchy. Christ actually advocated the individual’s ability to be with Christ without an intercessor, something that would NOT have suite the Church’s plans.

          • glorybe2

            Actually many of the early document still exist. They were created way before Gutenberg managed to invent the printing press which the Chinese invented many centuries earlier than Gutenberg.

            To a certain degree it matters little if Christ was a dream or a living person. His doctrines were radical and changed the world for the better. If we want we can imagine a spirit called Christ or we can take him as flesh and blood. The message is vital either way. Nations that are predominantly Christian have done much better in this sorry world than nations of other faiths.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Can we really claim that countries that are predominantly christian have done better?

            The answer depends on what is meant by “done better”.

            Are we happier? I don’t think so.

            Are we more satisfied as a nation? I don’t think so.

            Are we a more peaceful country? Certainly not.

            Have we conquered all of our animal instincts? Absolutely not.

            There is just as much hate in this country as there is in non-christian countries. I’d say in certain respects, we might have more.

            If you want to base done better on “things”, “modernization”, “industrialization”, yep we sure have. But, we don’t have anymore peace of mind than anyone else, anywhere else. In fact, we seem to have less. Studies have shown that the less a country is industrialized, the happier the population is, less stress, less pressure to succeed.

            So, you see, this leaves a wide area up for interpretation as to what is meant by done better.

            I think the native tribes of New Gunie or the Amazon Rain Forest Tribes have it a heck of a lot better. And, they ain’t christian either.

          • Allan Richardson

            And the early documents reveal a wide variety of spellings, wordings of sentences, inserted, moved or deleted verses, stories and even chapters, because they were copied by amateur scribes long before being copied by professional scribes. Some are innocent misspellings (spelling was not so standardized before printing, since printing promulgated the printer’s spellings to many people and set standards), some are innocent name substitutions, but many are THEOLOGICALLY motivated changes to make the NEW copy match the scribe’s theology better then the “mistaken” old one. And writing under an alias (i.e. forging) was very prevalent in ancient times; only about half of Paul’s letters are agreed by scholars to have been authentically Pauline, as determined by writing style and what they say about the church environment in which Paul or “Paul” was writing. One beloved story, the woman about to be stoned, does not appear in ANY copy of ANY gospel made earlier than the 1200’s!

          • Sand_Cat

            “His” church put the Bible together, or at least the “New Testament.” I should think no one would want anything to do with the monster portrayed in the so-called “Old” one.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            During Christ’s day, it was his own church who crucified him. Basically, he was a Heretic and a Traitor to their Judaism belief system.

            And, it wasn’t even the populace that actually crucified him. They had no laws on the books that dictated death for speaking against their religion. The Jewish authorities enlisted the help of the Romans to do their dirty work for them. Rome didn’t really want any part of it. They considered it a local problem but went along with it to appease the local Jewish authorities.

          • RobertCHastings

            Have you ever read Robert Heinlein’s “Stranger in a Strange Land”? Were Christ to come today, He would not last three months, simply because, as Heinlein saw it, His church did not follow His teachings. While we admire those like Gandhi and the Dalai Lama whose lives ARE their testimony, very few of us could do with our lives as they have. So it is with Jesus, and were He to come today and require of us the sacrifice and the service expected of real Christians, we would destroy Him.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Oh, I absolutely believe that.

            If people are the same today as they were 2000 years ago with their hatreds and bigotries, he wouldn’t last not even 3 months. And, people who lived 2000 years ago lived much simpler lives.

            I really think he never actually existed in the first place. If he did, he was a totally different person than what his so-called gospels make him out to be. Remember, everything in the Bible, as we know it, is not a direct quote of his beliefs from him directly. Everything in it is heresay, third party beliefs and comments.

            I think everything the bible and Christianity represents is propaganda, a religious/political tool, regardless if any of it makes any sense at all. People then could not live by its dictates.

            They certainly couldn’t today, not in any realistic way and definitely not in a pure sense of the word.

          • RobertCHastings

            He is, however, something toward which we can all strive. I have problems like you in fully accepting the idea of Christ as a real human being, an historical individual with vital data like all the rest of us. Some research does show at least some evidence for His existence, and that of his brother, James (although nothing YET supports the lineage laid out by the movie “Dogma”). The myth of the immaculate conception was old when Christ came along, and the Egyptians used the concept of resurrection even before Israel was established and the Old Testament written over 2700 years ago. That being said, throughout recorded history society has felt the need for god or God in one form or another, for at least two reasons; 1) to explain why things are the way they are and why we are here, and 2) to explain what happens next. Because of something that happened to me when I was 15, I fully accept the existence of God. This belief gives me confidence in my further belief that salvation does necessarily come only through Christ.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            I won’t trample your belief.

            But, for me, I can’t believe in such an individual. There are way too many contradictions in the people who practice one version or another of Christianity to take it seriously, really almost any religion.

            I’ve seen too much, experienced too much to believe in any spooky god-thing. More and more with every waking moment, I’m discovering that there is no god. Want real evidence?, take a good look around you are start seeing human nature for what it really is.

            God would not make “in his image” a being that is so corrupt, nasty, bigoted, hateful and greedy. IF he did, he would have to have a very perverted sense of humor or be a complete asshole.

          • RobertCHastings

            Once again, He is something toward which we can strive. I respect your beliefs and, believe it or not, I fully understand what you are saying. I have gone through many cycles of trying to reconcile what is happening in this world (and what HAS happened, even to Christ Himself) with what SHOULD be.
            Let me pose some things to think about. IF we are all His children, why are we so different and contrary? If we are instructed to love one another, why has there been constant war since the beginning of time? If the Jews are His “chosen people”, why did the Holocaust occur? It is my belief that ALL things happen for a reason, that we are ALL here for a limited number of reasons (primarily to learn AND to teach), and that ALL souls eventually wind up with God, and that here is no hell (the waste in the universe that this would imply makes no sense). I believe the Holocaust (and other such events throughout history), as well as ALL disasters that take many lives, happen so that we will learn from them. That we can look back at recent history and see such events as Rwanda in light of the Holocaust tells me that we did NOT learn what we should have about genocide and cruelty. I do not pose these questions to try to persuade you one way or another, merely to attempt to explain MY viewpoint and to show you how I got where I am. I may be absolutely wrong in both my beliefs and the questions I have posed myself but, to me, my answers seem to be reasonable.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate it very much:)

            Have you ever read these books?

            The Ra Material, An Ancient Astronaut Speaks, The Law of One, Book I

            The Law of One, Book II

            The Law of One, Book III

            Very interesting stuff to say the least. I read all 3 books over 20 years ago. They are very enlightening.

          • RobertCHastings

            Shirley MacLaine wrote a series of books setting out her explorations of consciousness In one of them, she accompanies a friend to Peru, with the hopes of seeing a UFO. When they DO see one (as many have done as Peru is an apparent hotspot), her companion Shirley if she would like to meet an alien. She responds that she doesn’t believe in aliens. Her friends simple response was, “Someone has to fly these things”. All too many folks WANT to spot a UFO, until all the other stuff become obvious. I have found a site that will allow downloads of the books you speak of, and I will try to read some of it in the near future. Thanks for the tip.

          • glorybe2

            Most people are not aware that early Christians were Jews who remained part of the Jewish congregation to avoid being murdered. Christ’s brother, James, was crucified by the Jews when Christians gained power within the temples. Like other early Christians James was a practicing Jew. Rome rapidly gained a great fear of Christians as it is so very hard to get devout Christians to rape and pillage and bring the loot back home. The blooming of Christianity actually made Rome weak enough to fall to the pagans.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Rome fell because they had reached out too far for the military to totally conquer and control. And, because the military took too much of their funds to maintain, very similar to our situation today, they had to keep maintaining a fake front and appease (pay off) the countries they did conquer.

            Eventually, they were overpowered by their own greed and stupidity. When they did finally fall, the invading armies just walked into Rome itself because it couldn’t even protect its main city.

            I only credit Christianity for Rome’s downfall in only one way. You’re right, it was Pagans that did it. But, it was actually Christianity, for what it’s worth, that weakened Rome’s Power Base to a certain extent, which was a contributing factor of their downfall.

            Then, you also must realize any other religion than christian is classified as Pagan, even up to today.

          • Allan Richardson

            The reason Rome eventually chose Christianity is because all the other religions were so TOLERANT of one another that none of them, and eventually not even emperor worship, could inspire the sense of national unity. Christianity DELAYED the fall of Rome, but could not stop it, and the Eastern half of the Empire, which was Greek speaking, stayed intact till 1453 (varying in size over the centuries), a thousand years longer than the Western, Latin speaking part.

            Essentially, Western Europe traded a political empire for a religious empire that “dabbled” in politics.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Inspiring national unity using religion is the worst way to run a country. Look what’s been going on in the Middle East. Murder, Mayhem, violence between sects.

            The only reason that sort of thing don’t happen here, it used to at one time and still does to a degree, is our man-made laws that keep these horrors in check.

          • Allan Richardson

            Actually, according to the tradition that got into the Acts of the Apostles, James was thrown off the wall of the Temple. Much less paperwork than crucifixion.

          • glorybe2

            Perhaps Martin Luther kind comes closer to the image of Christ. Dr.King could have had a quiet and easy life and was well aware that he would be assassinated for attempting to preach love and justice.
            Prayers for Nelson Mandela tonight. He is apparently leaving us. I hope he does not suffer as he was one of the great ones who rarely are among us.

          • Allan Richardson

            Too bad it’s fiction; it would be neat to be able to grok things!

            If any evangelicals bothered to read it, they would call it satanic.

          • RobertCHastings

            But if they tried to “grok” it, would they truly understand?

  • idamag

    I have several friends that are gay. None of them are bullies. However, I have known a few religious people who are bullies.

  • gmccpa

    “homosexuals are sinful — just like adulterers, just like pedophiles, just like liars, just like thieves.”

    Yeah….why can’t they say things like this…without feeling intimidated or ostracized. Its a tough life when you cannot even throw a few harmless insults around without any repercussions. I know they won me over. Right. What a bunch of jackasses.

    And irony? I guess they just can’t see it.

    • tranz2deep

      Which is very, very weird since, as Spider Robinson once wrote, God is an Iron.
      Villains commit villainy, burglars are the cause of burglary, and brewers are who run a brewery.
      So God, the source of irony, is an iron–and that’s a hot one. They keep trying to be all close and bask in God’s glory, gain unearned reflections of it. Instead; they get burned, so that’s that proven.

  • merl1

    Those guys are just begging someone to persecute them. Maybe they should all move to China where Christians are actually persecuted or better yet a Moslem country.

    • RobertCHastings

      What they would receive there would be much worse than mere persecution, although among true Muslims, true Christians are able to live in harmony. Since the Koran borrows so heavily from the Bible, those who practice Islam according to a true reading of the Koran honor Christ as a prophet among prophets, and his mother as very dear to their heritage, and Abraham as their ancestor. As with fundamentalist Muslims, however, as with fundamentalist Christians, the Word of their Holy Book is corrupted by those with a political agenda.

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        You’re right.

        It is not these lofty words that cause all these problems. It is their “leaders” who guide their flocks with their own perverted visions of what these books actually stood for.

        And, this does not happen only in Christianity either. It happens in ALL religions. And, this also is what makes all religions so dangerous. They ALL can be taken to an extreme, which primarily Christianity and Islam have both done over the centuries.

        You are also right. in Islam Christ is not considered a deity, but a man, a highly intelligent man, a prophet. Even Mohammad is not considered a deity, but a prophet. In their religion, god has not come here yet.

        Makes perfect sense to me………………..

        • idamag

          Actually, Mohammad was a descendant of Ishmael who was the first son of Abraham.

          • Allan Richardson

            At least that is the tradition that was later incorporated into the Hebrew scriptures, and passed on to the Arabs. Pre-Islamic Arabs were pagans but believed some of the traditions of the pre-Israelite passages in Genesis. Muslims therefore believe that Ishmael was the son almost sacrificed by Abraham, while Jews believe that was Isaac. As old as he was when Ishmael was born, he COULD have gone through that same experience twice, forgetting the lesson from the first time and having to learn it over again for Isaac.

            Of course, personalities such as Abraham, Isaac, Lot, Esau, etc. could have been poetic representations of the tribes believed to be part of the Semitic family tree, just as we refer to Uncle Sam or John Bull for the US or UK.

      • merl1

        right wing christians would never acknowledge that fact. tell one that and see what they say.

  • Siegfried Heydrich

    Nobody snivels like a bully who is stood up to, or feels more victimized when their victims fight back. Poor, persecuted babies . . .

  • Michael Kollmorgen

    I never met a Gay Bully. And, I am 64 years old.

    But, I sure have met a lot of Christian Bullies, especially against those who don’t believe in their brand of religion or go against their beliefs.

    It was the Christian Evangelicals who started this all years ago. IF they would have kept their filthy noses out of the typical gay person’s private life, none of this would have ever happened.

    It was the Christian Community who stuck their curious noses in our Bath Houses, our Bars and our Private Lives. It was the Christian Community which has instigated all of these problems.

    The Christian Community has way more to worry about than us Gay People. They would all do much better minding their own dam business, keeping their religion private; in their homes, in their churches, out of our public schools and public spaces.

    Christians BEWARE! Keep your crap up and everything your doing will BACKFIRE ON YOU. People of good conscience will not tolerate you much longer and start passing laws against you, as you have done and tried to do for many years to everyone else. Your time, if you wish, your End Times, will come sooner than you think.

    And, YOU, the Christian Community will be the direct cause of it.

    • idamag

      I think I made a comment about this, somewhere on this board. Some of my best friends are gay. When I see loving looks pass between them, I feel a warm feeling about it. That is because my mind is not in their undershorts. Holier-than-thous should get their noses out of other peoples’ crotches.

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        That is the Achilles Heel of the entire problem. These so-called religious people can’t keep their dirty minds off of sex. It’s all-consuming with them – as if they have nothing else to worry about.

        Believe me, if my companion and I were to rely on the amount of sex we perform, we’d of been dead long ago, and not only gay committed couples either.

        The issue of SEX shouldn’t be THAT important to anyone. But, it is to them. And, they make it PERVERTED by making it an obsession.

        They’d all do much better looking in their own closets, in their own private lives.

        The ONLY question I have is; Why is this country so obsessed with SEX? There is NO need for it.

        • Allan Richardson

          There is a story about a poor woman visiting the DAR meeting as a guest of her wealthier friend. When the chapter president opined “We place great emphasis on breeding!” the poor lady said, “We enjoy it too, but we care about other things as well.”

          Why is America so obsessed with sex? Because we feel guilty about being born in bed with a married woman? Back in the 1960’s, when Denmark legalized pornography, the publishers of porn IN DANISH went broke, except for the ones that began to publish it IN ENGLISH!

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Yes, I think it is guilt which makes us so obsessed with sex.

            The ONE most powerful emotion which the church has used for centuries and now in cooperation with politics to manipulate and control people is sex.

  • Sand_Cat

    I love how the racist bigots and the savagely intolerant “religious” are so afraid that their former victims will treat them as badly as they treated the victims, i.e., that they will get what they deserve.

    • idamag

      I want to give you an example of Christian Bullying. In our state it is up to the cities to pass or reject laws against discriminating against gays. Idaho’s State attorney general is trying to get a law forbidding the cities to do so. He says the anti discrimination laws are violating the Constitution by making laws respecting his religion.

  • Mortalc01l

    For the last 1000 years, Christians have bullied, burned, tortured and killed anyone that didn’t believe as they did.

    How many innocent Women were burned as Witches? How many innocent Men had their eyes gouged out, their testicles crushed, their tongues ripped out because they were atheists?

    How many good people were beaten, shunned, vilified and imprisoned because they refused to believe in the particular version of a sky daddy that comprises the delusion known as Christianity?

    How many Men and Women were denied any rights, any aid, any comfort by Christians because they were gay? How many KKK Christian members raped, hanged and forgot about blacks, because of the color of their skin?

    Yet, it’s the POOR, POOR Christians that are the ones being bullied? Get a freaking grip on reality would you… Oh, hold on… you believe in an invisible Man in the sky who cares what you eat on a specific day and watches you as you masturbate and puts a black mark by your name in a book and who “loves” us all, yet consigns those who do not abase themselves to him to eternal torture in the flames of hell. Why would I think that reality would EVER intrude into a Christian’s consciousness…?

    • idamag

      People would do well to study the Spanish Inquisition, the French Inquisition, The Mountain Meadow Massacre and the what the crusades were about.

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        Overall, most Christians would rather like to ignore THAT part of history, sweep it under the rug, as if it never happened.

        Most of this stuff wasn’t really about religion, but power and grabbing property, land and wealth. They used religion as a way to justify what they were doing though.

        What we did to the American Indian 100 years ago and the Amazon Tribes today is very similar to what they did 800 – thousand years ago. Just different methods, same religion and the same goals.

        • idamag

          They came down into Canaan. People were tending their flocks, marrying,and it was the land of milk and honey. Now remember, they came into the land of Canaan. The people there were minding their own business and doing what people do. God gave them the Land of Canaan and the Israelites slew the Canaantes every one.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            I don’t take anything the bible states as being valid.

  • charleo1

    It seems to me from our very beginnings, it was decided America was not going
    to be like any other Country, that had ever been established, up to that time.
    The overriding principal, that guided all the other principals, was to hold
    sacrosanct the freedom of individual expression. For without that, there could
    be no democracy. No self rule, or consent of the governed. And that freedom of expression was not limited to what a citizen might say about the government, or political leaders. It extended to the practice of one’s chosen religion. And, to
    those who choose to practice their religion in public, or private, or those who
    chose to have no religion at all. In fact, they understood the temptation some
    would have to use the power of the State, to further their beliefs. and spread their ideology. So, even as the freedoms of expression, and speech, were guaranteed. And, should have sufficed. They felt so strongly about it, they inserted a specific prohibition of Congress to make, “No law,” that served to promote one religion
    over another. And it is here I believe, the Evangelical movement has went so far afoul of public opinion. And to a substantial extent, Christianity itself. In fact, in
    some cases, they are so far afield, they are clearly highjacking the Christian Religion, as a way to obtain political power. And this saddens me in the way
    Christ was saddened for the blindness of those who were busily carrying out
    His execution. As a boy who grew up in rural Southwestern Missouri, I can tell
    those that project their anger at Christianity itself, I get that. But, I would also
    like to tell you, it was not always this way. Politics were never discussed in open
    church. I cannot speak to all private conversations of course. But, as there were
    Republicans, there were Democrats. And as a general rule, most thought it unseemly, and a bit disrespectful to The Lord’s House. That being said, the New
    Testament underpins my Liberalism. And even as Christ ministered to a people
    in bondage. A poor people, made even poorer by the taxes collected under
    penalty of death, and sent to Rome. Christ refused to be political. His mission
    was not to become a powerful ruler. But, to leave to mankind through His example,
    the way God wants us to treat each other. If there are hungry people, and you’ve
    got food, feed them. If they are sick, and suffering. And you can perhaps bring
    them back to health. Then you must try. It is my religion that clearly says, I am
    my Brother’s keeper, and my Brother is mine. It is not political. God is never political.

  • Dominick Vila

    This is part of the evangelical Christian strategy to portray themselves as victims, while insisting on the imposition of their values and goals on others.

    • idamag

      They always have.

  • Mikey7a

    I will never deny that I believe in Jesus Christ. That he is my personal Savior. I never judge anyone else for the lifestyle they live. These idiots have a political agenda. They wear Christianity as a badge, and in my opinion, give Christians a very bad name.

    • juli1

      “They wear Christianity as a badge”

      As a fellow Christian, I’d say it was more like they use it as a weapon. It make me wonder if they keep their bibles in their gun cabinates with the rest of their firearms.

      “Blessed are the peacemakers, for
      they shall be called the children of God.”


      • Mikey7a

        Thanks Juli, you are right. It’s early here, and I misspoke. Weapon much better describes these politician nut jobs. I suppose in the end all we can do is pray for them…..AND vote them out!

        • juli1

          How right you are.

          Heck, I frequently do both at the same time ; )

          ~Love is patient; love is kind. Love is not jealous, it does not put on airs, and is not snobbish; it is never rude or self-seeking; it is not prone to anger, nor does it brood over
          injuries. Love doesn’t rejoice in what is wrong, but rejoices in the truth. There is no limit to love’s forbearance, to its trust; it’s hope, its power to endure. Love never fails… There are, in the end, three things that last: faith, hope, and love.

          But the greatest of these is love.”

          ~I Corinthians 13:4-8a, 13 – The Inclusive

    • idamag

      Funny, I have said that religious people wear their religion like a fine garment to be admired.

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        Yes, and the Emperor Has No Clothes.

    • Allan Richardson

      Karen Taylor Good, a positive Christian songwriter of Jewish birth, wrote a song titled “The Jesus Club” that she only performed and sold when visiting the more tolerant churches such as Unity. If you purchase a CD on her website,, or visit a Unity church when she performs there, you may be able to beg her for a copy of that song. The lyrics are hilarious, describing how evangelicals treated her because of her “liberal” theology which blended in with her Jewish upbringing, when she first moved to Nashville. Another song which you CAN download from her website is titled “God’s Refrigerator” and is very good for everyone’s self esteem (hint: what do parents do with pictures of and by their children?).

  • howa4x

    Christianity in America is completely made up as they go along. That is why it was used to justify slavery, segregation , hangings, beatings, corporal punishment of children, wife battering, murder, inequality of wealth, the starting of wars, and of course the right to bear arms and defend you house with lethal force. The Christians in America invented a Jesus to go along with any type of intolerance that was popular at the time. Of course the way Americans practice Christianity is completely contrary to what Jesus actually preached.

  • highpckts

    The so called “Christians” are the biggest bullies I know!

  • roguerunners

    Here in my small town, just a few years ago when temperatures were below freezing, a Transvestite went to the only Homeless Shelter in town (Rescue Mission) and was turned away and called an “abomination”. This was printed in the paper with pictures of this homeless soul. Also, when the “Rescue Mission” was in the prosess of collecting donations for a project to build two big buildings so they could “help” more people, THEY ACTUALLY TURNED DOWN $200,000.00 from the federal government because they would have been required to provide TWO BEDS for those who were non religious and did not wish to partisipate in their required daily sermon!!! Just who are they to pass such a judgement as that? Pure hate. 🙁

    • RobertCHastings

      Not necessarily hate, but ignorance. There was today an item running across the screen on GMA that spoke of a Christian program that dealt with “curing gays”. Fortunately, this group has seen the light and have redirected their energies toward curing the fear among homophobes. We need to hear more stories like that.

      • roguerunners

        Yes it is ignorance and it would have been better for me to put it that way. However when I wrote a letter to the editor that said “Ignorance breeds prejudice.” I really opened up “Pandora’s Box”! I could not believe the horrible letters in response. And trust me, it was pure hate.

        • RobertCHastings

          I fully understand what you are saying. You are absolutely right that “ignorance breeds prejudice”. Look at the turmoil Paula Deen has gotten herself into. She clearly demonstrates that ignorance does not have to be lifelong, but the consequences of previous ignorance MAY be lifelong.

      • Diane

        Not just ignorance but real determined hate from so called “christians”. Spare me from self-designated christians because they are anything but. You do not have to be a christian to respect your fellow man, you can be a Buddist, Shinto, or atheist and be more christian than these “evangelicals”.

        • RobertCHastings

          Thomas Jefferson and some others from colonial America who figured greatly in building this nation (and in the process managing to keep religion OUT of government) were not Christians, but secular humanists. The mere fact that neither “God” nor “Jesus” appears in the Declaration of Independence serves to illustrate. While John Adams (a Christian) was the main figure in guiding the colonies into Revolution, many of his associates were not, although, as with secular humanists today, they did have a strong moral and ethical code, all they felt that was necessary to create a morally and ethically strong country.

    • Judy Schlegel

      I do not agree with the Rescue Mission, but I will defend their right to practice their religion.

      • roguerunners

        Practicing their religion is one thing but turning someone away on a freezing night and passing their judgment on them is quite another, as well as forcing their religion on anyone needing help.

  • Kay George

    I’ve never met a Gay Bully. However, I Myself have interacted with christians, who say they are christians, but are absolutely Toxic Individuals towards others.

    When Christ walked the earth he never spoke about homosexualality, so I have to know that the God of my Understanding, would not create Groups of people to be persecuted. Such as; Homosexuals, African Americans, Lation’s, or anyone else. But Man would persecute other men & women….It has been proven time & time again…Adolph Hitler was among many Sociopath’s who persecuted the Jewish Race. The Condemnation of Gay’s, African Americans, Latino’s, & all others, does not come from God.
    IT COMES FROM RELIGIOUS PEOPLE, who never investigate the bible references that are available to them. Biblically–It was considered acceptable for Females to co-habitat because, they did not penetrate. However, it was not accepted for males, because they did penetrate. It never had anything to do with a Moral Law. It had to do with Cleanliness, & Hygiene, but no one ever mentions that. And as we Evolved, Hyginen was not a problem….

    • Allan Richardson

      Hitler claimed to be a Christian, used the established Catholic and Lutheran churches to gain power, had the motto “God is with us” stamped on the belt buckles of the SS uniforms, etc. It was only AFTER he secured power that he began to persecute REAL Christians (and that was REAL persecution, even to martyrdom for anti-Nazi Christians), refer to Christianity as a “weak JEWISH” religion, and promote the old Norse pagan myths (in which Germans were always the “good” guys) that Wagner, his favorite composer, had incorporated into his operas.

  • climate3

    History tells us that it is the evangelicals who did the bullying –

  • glorybe2

    I know of a Catholic church that two gay men disrupted, insulting worsippers, and telling them that there charity could be spent on these two men’s AIDS medications rather than the poor and needy.

    • Allan Richardson

      Neither of us knows what these two men had suffered earlier at the hands of churches and church officials. To be sure, insulting worshipers is uncalled-for, but they were probably acting out frustrations, and as far as I have heard, they have not started an organized campaign of having many gay people disrupt church services. It does seem, however, that they were AMONG the poor and needy because of the cost of their medicine.

      One thing that many religious people ignore is the CONTEXT of the Bible. Since the Biblical worldview made no allowance for genetic abnormalities and sexual ambiguity, they could only think of two reasons for homosexual ACTS: one, participating in pagan rituals that involved all kinds of sexual behavior, which obviously would be an abomination to Jews and Christians; or two, being so promiscuous in choosing partners that one does not care even about their gender (the popular image of gay people in many straight people’s minds today). The idea that some men just CANNOT honestly feel romantic to any woman the way they can toward men, and some women likewise, never occurred to the Bible writers, and today’s fundamentalists pretend that it does not exist. I try to apply Christian empathy, and imagine how I would feel if a “gay establishment” told me that my feelings for my beautiful wife were an “abomination.” Therefore, I will not prejudge whether gay couples are “really” in love, as only they can judge their feelings.

      • glorybe2

        Christianity has a stoic or ascetic tradition. Worldly pleasures have no value at all and foregoing those pleasures is considered trivial. Christ even rejected marriage and family as being without worth. After all wives and children quickly turn to dust. Salvation of the soul was the only valid pursuit. Aside from that only charity and sacrifice were of value. Carefully read the NT is a manual for revolution and the collapse of all societies simply were part of the path of clearing the way for the kingdom of God. Basic values such as patriotism were also not worthy at all.

        • Allan Richardson

          You mean God is NOT an American conservative Republican! That would shock lots of people in Marietta, GA!

          Seriously, that ascetic tradition is the biggest excuse for denying a happy earthly life to people OTHER than those who “fit in” in an evangelical church (BTW, there is not a 100% overlap between “evangelical” and “fundamentalist; some Christians are still zealous about preaching the basic traditional creeds such as the Nicene or Apostle’s Creed, even though they admit the non-religious parts of the Bible may have mistakes). The evangelical Christians who CAN comply with their teachings and still enjoy life within those boundaries do not have to deny themselves any pleasures except SINFUL ones.

          Ironically, according to a book by the late Anglican Bishop John Shelby Spong, it is possible that the Augustinian idea that “all people are inherently evil enough to deserve eternal punishment, without Jesus, because the slightest imperfection is evil enough” may have derived from Paul’s personal feeling of being an abomination because he had gay instead of straight FEELINGS, even though he does not admit to EVER ACTING on sexual feelings of ANY kind. It does seem to me to be a PERSONAL Pauline philosophy arising from a personal feeling of guilt about SOMETHING in his own life, that neither he nor others can satisfy God through Jewish worship, because God will CONDEMN for the slightest lapse; no other Pharisees that I am aware of denied the mercy of God even in the absence of faith in a Messiah, nor claimed that 100.000000000000% compliance is required to be holy, only CLOSE to 100% TRYING to comply with Torah.

          We also have to remember that when Paul was writing, Christians generally believed that the end of the world would come in THEIR lifetimes (or at least the lifetimes of those who did not suffer martyrdom, and thus died of old age). The church was seen as a spiritual “Seal Team” so to speak, operating in enemy territory. When the church BECAME the establishment, they had to legislate practical ways to be a wealthy Christian, a Christian in government, a Christian soldier, a Christian artisan, peasant, wife and mother, etc.

          • glorybe2

            When it is at the point that students in school can meet and discuss atheism but not discuss Christ I think the proof of bullying is blatant. But your statements that Christians thought divine intervention would occur in the first century is very weak. They hoped for it but had no clue when it would occur. Even in the 15th. century we see monks wearing the hair shirts or robes with shards of glass that cut at them day and night in order to avoid moments of pleasure in this world. We also see knights as well as organizations dedicated to poverty. For example a knight might be named “John the Penny Less ” to show his faith. Christians frequently hired non Christians to carry their coins as they refused to touch money and it was considered to be evil to know how much coin you had.

            A huge war within the Catholic Church occurred over the permission to own items of worth. Many priests, monks and nuns were burned when they refused to give up their doctrines of poverty. The church reasoned that a congregation without wealth could not donate or expand the faith. Examples that still exist are the Carmelite nuns who are often called the barefoot nuns as their doctrine of poverty was so rigid that they could not own shoes. This conflict received great attention from the casual question “What kind of SUV would Jesus drive?”. In other words true Christians would not own cars.