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Monday, February 18, 2019

Reprinted with permission from Alternet.

Accusing the media of being “fake news” has worked so well for the Republicans, they’ve decided to give it a try against anyone who dares question their atrocious policies. The GOP’s latest target is the Congressional Budget Office, simply because it has the gall to score the latest disaster of a Senate health care bill.

Why, Paul Krugman asks in his Monday column, should we trust the prognosis of the CBO over the word of White House aides and congressional Republicans? For starters, there’s the White House’s record of “constant, blatant lying about health care that is, as far as I can tell, without precedent in modern history.”

Vice President Mike Pence tried to tell America that Ohio’s Medicaid expansion led to a reduction in aid for the disabled, which Ohio’s own state government had to announce was false. Similarly, Secretary of Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price said on Fox News that the Senate bill would cover more Americans than the current Affordable Care Act. This was a particularly cynical lie, considering that, “You can’t cut hundreds of billions from Medicaid and insurance subsidies and expect coverage to grow!”

The CBO isn’t the only nonpartisan organization to give a damning assessment of the GOP’s Better Care Reconciliation Act. “In fact,” Krugman writes, “just about every group with knowledge of the issue has reached similar conclusions. In a joint letter, the two major insurance industry trade groups blasted the Cruz provision as ‘simply unworkable.’ The American Academy of Actuaries says basically the same thing. AARP has condemned the bill, as has the American Medical Association.”

The GOP has attempted to discredit the Congressional Budget Office because it overestimated the number of people who would use the Affordable Care Act’s insurance exchanges, but that was only because fewer employers dropped their coverage. Plus, Krugman continues, “Overall gains in coverage have been reasonably well in line with what the CBO projected—especially in states that expanded Medicaid and did their best to make the law work.”

You don’t have to be a Nobel Prize-winning economist to know that repealing Obamacare would be a disaster. Do we want to go back to pre-ACA Texas, where 26 percent of the non-elderly population was uninsured? Do we want a plague of junk insurance, with what Krugman describes as “deductibles so large or coverage limitations so extensive as to be effectively useless when needed?” Or a return to discrimination against Americans with pre-existing conditions?

True, he admits, hardcore libertarians might be fine with that outcome, but that’s not what the GOP is arguing. Instead, “at every stage of this political fight they have claimed to be doing exactly the opposite of what they’re actually doing: covering more people, making health care cheaper, protecting Americans with pre-existing conditions. We’re not talking about run-of-the-mill spin here; we’re talking about black is white, up is down, dishonesty so raw it’s practically surreal. This isn’t just an assault on health care, it’s an assault on truth itself.”

No one, not even Krugman, can predict whether this assault on truth will be successful, or whether the cries of “fake news” will be as effective against the CBO as they have been against the press. But the health insurance of tens of millions hangs in the balance.

Read the entire column.

Ilana Novick is an AlterNet contributing writer and production editor.


This article was made possible by the readers and supporters of AlterNet.

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67 responses to “Paul Krugman: Republicans Have Declared War On Truth Itself”

  1. ⭐️Most Accurate Poster 2017⭐️ says:

    With the willing aid of some on the left* – the Bernie Bros and Stein morons – it must be said. I mean, there are people here who – aside from being INSANELY racist – think that the Clinton Foundation did something wrong, or that Hillary sold uranium to Russia, or that she supported coups in neighboring countries, etc – all of which are STRAIGHT from Clinton Cash, a book that was so untruthful that Rupert Murdoch’s publishing arm refused to publish it until the bigger falsehoods were edited out.

    * Or supposedly on the left, at any rate.

    • ⭐️Most Accurate Poster 2017⭐️ says:

      Or that the primary was “rigged”, the proof of which is DEFINITELY in the emails released by Putin’s Wikileaks – although, oddly, they are never able to link me to the exact emails they are talking about (mostly because they don’t exist).

      • ⭐️Most Accurate Poster 2017⭐️ says:

        In short, the only real enemy is the mindset that leads to people believing conspiracy theories over the evidence.

      • Beethoven says:

        Donald Trump, Jr. was hoping to get from Russia the “33,000 emails” that his father had been asking about during his campaign, so they could use them to show that Hillary had done something crooked, or at least suspicious. I seem to remember, when the Hillary emails first became an issue, that someone said before she turned her emails over to the FBI or whoever, she had deleted a bunch of emails that were purely of a personal nature, between her and her family, that had nothing to do with any political issues whatever. Perhaps the Russians did in fact get those emails, and possibly even passed them on to Wikileaks, and they never surfaced because, as described, they contained nothing that her enemies could use against her.

        • ⭐️Most Accurate Poster 2017⭐️ says:

          When Trump made that (insane & treasonous) request, I’m 99% sure the FBI had already obtained those emails and said so, which makes it doubly insane (but still the same level of treasonous: 100%).

    • Independent1 says:

      I still put a great deal of blame in the lap of Bernie Sanders for why we have a monstrosity called Donald Trump sitting in the Oval Office.

  2. pics fixer says:

    I’ll tell you all what needs to happen, let the Republican healthcare bill go through. The pain that will go through our country especially among the Trump voters will be very great. After that pain sets in, a Republican could not be elected to dog catcher. People will feel the lies they have been told. It appears that nothing else will work. Real pain does!

    • ⭐️Most Accurate Poster 2017⭐️ says:

      While that’s true: real people would die or be ruined. It would be immoral to let these monsters destroy themselves, because they would drag down countless others.

      • pics fixer says:

        I get that. I’m just trying to make a point. Those heartless creatures don’t care. They are without souls. What counts to them is to erase Pres. Obama from the history books and if they have to kill the rest of us in the process, they are happy to do that. Yet the people who would be hurt the most, vote for them.

        I blame the press for that. The news is more concerned with what kind of soap to use to wash the family dog then what an administration dan do to harm that family. Those Republicans are cruel!

        • ⭐️Most Accurate Poster 2017⭐️ says:

          I can’t fault any part of that, I just get antsy when people suggest letting the Republicans destroy themselves.

          • pics fixer says:

            Hay, those are self inflicted wounds. They certainly don’t need any help in that area. They amaze me.

          • Independent1 says:

            It’s the GOP’s/Trump’s supporters who amaze me – how people can be so gullible to believe what any rational person should see on the surface ( which only the truly blind can’t see) are outright lies and deliberate propaganda.

          • dbtheonly says:

            It’s the others they’d take with them.

        • Beethoven says:

          I’ve read about many different polls taken in which the people polled were asked about individual parts of ObamaCare, without any label connecting them to ObamaCare. Every one of them except the mandate that everyone had to buy insurance, was strongly supported by the people polled. But if the pollsters asked about them as part of ObamaCare, there were as many people against them as for them. And there have also been quite a few polls taken in which people were asked whether they preferred the Affordable Care Act, or ObamaCare (which intelligent, informed people know are the same thing), and a majority of the people did not recognize them as being the same, but strongly preferred the Affordable Care Act. So, as the polls indicate, by far the biggest problem with ObamaCare is that it has that name. Shakespeare, if he were a right-winger, might have said, “A rose, if it were called Obama, would smell like a pig sty.”

          • pics fixer says:

            First, you’re right, but let me add this: The ‘mandate’ is absolutely necessary. What we need to keep in mind is that the whole thing still runs on PRIVATE insurance companies with support for those who can’t buy it coming from Medicaid. For any insurance plan to work you need a big base of people who won’t, hopefully, need it. All insurance is bought in the hopes you won’t need it. A big base buying in supports those that need the benefits. The healthy people do go to hospitals when they get hurt or sick and we all pick up the bills if they don’t pay. That’s unfair so, those who can afford it should buy in or be fined. With everyone in, the cost of a policy will drop along with the cost to our economy which is becoming prohibitive [18% of GDP]. The ACA is slowing that down by the way.

            If we had a single payer system the whole population would be in and the system paid for through taxes which would actually be cheaper for each person.

          • Beethoven says:

            I agree with everything you said in this comment.

          • Independent1 says:

            Here’s an article you might appreciate which demonstrates clearly that what the GOP is promoting (capitalistic socialism) is a failure for the vast majority of Americans.

            VIDEO: People in Denmark Are a Lot Happier Than People in the United States. Here’s Why.



          • pics fixer says:

            We have a Danish family friend and she would stay in our home and we stay with her. She lives no differently than we do though Danish priorities are different than ours. They are much more people oriented. Everything in that video is right on the money. When you look at what it costs us here to get the benefits of life in Denmark we end up paying much more in out-of-pocket than they pay in taxes. Also, if you don’t make enough money to put away for retirement, education, vacation then you can never live the life they do.

            Danes are really great to be around because they are quite cheerful. Who could blame them.

          • dpaano says:

            I agree…people don’t understand that with a single-payer system, you may pay more in taxes, but you would NOT be putting our money each month for healthcare….what you’re charged for in extra taxes would probably be LESS than you’re currently paying for your healthcare. It would all wash out and most would end up getting more and paying less….which, I believe, is what Trump promised his voters!

          • Independent1 says:

            It’s truly a shame what Republicans can do with their mindless brainwashing; convince people to believe lies are truths and truths are lies; that things bad for them are supposedly good for them; and even convince people that things that are actually good for them are bad for them. Propaganda – EVIL is they name.

          • dpaano says:

            Which is what I’ve said all along….many of the Trump voters have NO idea that Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act are one and the same! They don’t realize that if Obamacare is repealed, they will have NO healthcare coverage!

    • stcroixcarp says:

      No, trump and the GOPers will blame the democrats and the libotards. The people who are hurt the most will hang on to their faith in trump because they will be desperate to hold on to what they know.

      • pics fixer says:

        When those supporters feel the pain their faith will be shaken. You can blame the “Liberals” all you want but it’s the Republicans who are in charge. So far things don’t look too promising. Is this going to be the next new thing, blame the people NOT in charge and let those pulling all the strings skate? Let’s see how long that works.

        • dpaano says:

          I love it when Trump says he’s not going to take the blame for Obamacare and that the Democrats “own” it and he won’t take ownership. Doesn’t he realize that, as president, the buck stops on his desk in the Oval Office? He may not WANT to take the blame, but history will put the blame on him where it rightfully lies!

      • 788eddie says:

        It would be difficult to get around that the Repubs have a majority in both houses, the presidency and a definitely conservative Supreme Court.

        . . . And they still can’t govern!

        • pics fixer says:

          That’s easy to understand. It’s rotten at the top.

          In our system while still diffused, leadership starts at the top. The presidency is like the steering on a ship. It can be steered from places in other locations but the primary steering is on the bridge. Pres. Trump knows how to work a crowd and the media. He’s much more dynamic than Hillary Clinton. He can get the job. But, once he has the job it’s “Now What?”. He hasn’t got a clue as to how to steer the ship of state. He doesn’t know how it works and is very difficult to teach him. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. He has appointed people to leadership roles that they are unqualified for nor have the disposition to do. His cabinet is probably one of our worst. Is it any wonder that this administration can’t govern? Let’s pray he doesn’t steer us into the rocks.

        • Independent1 says:

          That’s because Republicans have demonstrated in state after state where they have majorities that they know absolutely nothing about running a government – only about doing everything they can to rob their constituents blind.

    • I’m afraid you’re right. Most Trumpites are so deranged that even if Death itself knocked on the door wearing a T-Shirt with “Trump’s The Man” and holding a scythe and a hospital bill from the GOP, they would welcome Death in, serve beer and pork rinds, and turn FOX on.

      • Independent1 says:

        It sure appears that way – given all Trump has done to make the lives of especially his supporters more miserable, and yet 82% of his supporters would still vote for him again; it was 84% 3-4 months ago so the diehards are clearly ignoring all the damage he is working to foist on their lives (through total ignorance?) and apparently are still willing to follow Trump into misery and the grave.

        • Just A Citizen says:

          One of these days you are going to finally realize you have NO IDEA what makes other people miserable. That maybe those of us who truly cherish the Individual Liberty heritage of this country are more harmed by its loss than not getting free cookies from the Government. Maybe we don’t cherish the idea of TAKING from others by force so we can make our own lives easier.

          Like I said, one day maybe you will realize you simply do not understand. And thus all your arguments and accusations are empty rhetoric.

          • Independent1 says:

            I know full well what makes people miserable and it’s GOP governance. Virtually all 10 states identified by Gallup-Healthways as being the most miserable states to live in with the worst quality of life for the past 10 years are run by the GOP!! And for 2015 and 16 #1 was West Virginia, #2 was Ohio run by Kasich, #3 was Indiana that was run by Pence, #4 was Kentucky which is the state Emperor Mitch represents in the Senate and it goes on and on with GOP-run state down to #10 Georgia.

            And why are they miserable places to live? Because these 10 states along with virtually every other state the GOP governs leads the nation in people living in the states with the highest rates of violence, the highest murder rates, the highest drug and alcohol use rates, the highest auto fatality rates, the highest rates of poverty, the highest rates of people broke and on the verge of bankruptcy.

            And why is all that, because the GOP insists on running states on the cheap with minimal governance just so the politicians and wealthy can live high on the hog allowing corrupt corporations and every thief in the state maximum advantage to screw over the states’ citizens they govern and even to drive drunk and high on drugs resulting in GOP-run states also leading the nation by far in every form of people dying prematurely!!!

            It’s you lowlife who needs to wake up and take your head out of your rectum so that you can see the light of day and the truth. GOP governance is an unmitigated disaster!!!!!! For everyones’ life including yours!!!!!

          • Just A Citizen says:

            Yep, those GOP states are so awful they are growing due to immigration at record rates.

            Your hyperbole does not an argument make.

          • Independent1 says:

            GOP-run states are growing? Is that a joke??

            The only thing they’re growing is more broke and financially unstable!! You are pathetic lying fool!!!

            The GOP’s reign of gubernatorial terror: Here are the
            small-government zealots who made their states considerably worse


          • Independent1 says:

            And 14 of 15 most federally dependent states, those so broke they need to depend on federal aid just to keep from going under financially are all GOP-run states – with Kentucky the most federally dependent – good ole Emperor Mitch’s home state!!!!!

            2017’s Most & Least Federally Dependent States


          • dpaano says:

            I don’t think his head is up HIS rectum, but it’s definitely up someone’s (and the name rhymes with “dump.”).

          • Independent1 says:

            You can’t identify ONE THING the GOP has done wlillingly over the past 100+ years that has been truly beneficial for America!! Not one thing!!

            Running the nation in a way over the past ten years that has resulted in 1/2 the job creation of what Democrats have accomplished has not been beneficial to America.

            Running the nation in a way that America has averaged creating a paltry average of 2.6% annual GDP growth while a Republican is in office has not been beneficial to America (Democrat presidents averaged 4.3% average GDP growth since 1900).

            Running the nation in a way that has created 14 recessions and 3 depressions in the last 10 years has not been beneficial to America when only 3 recessions have occurred in that time under Democrats.

            And when all these recessions/depressions have resulted in the stock market generating negative gains since the market crash of 1929 – that’s right, the market has actually had losses over the 42 years a Republican was in office while under Democrats the market gained 300+ percent. Virtually every bit of the gain that you see today in the stock market resulted while a Democrat was president!!!!

            So come on, name me JUST ONE truly beneficial thing the GOP has done willingly for America!! JUST ONE!!!

          • pics fixer says:

            This will hurt: Because of the policies set by Pres. Obama with nothing but obstruction from the Republicans the market has come back to better than before. If the Republican leadership cared more for our country than trying to get even with Pres. Obama for being elected President there would be much more progress with many more Americans sharing in that prosperity.

          • Independent1 says:

            Absolutely, it’s an absolute shame that the GOP had to spend 8 years obstructing what Obama was attempting to do. The nation and the world will never know just how truly great of a president Obama could have been and just how much he could have done for moving America into the 21st century (certainly far more advanced than America is today) if it were not for all the Republican opposition to his policies just because of their hate for the color of his skin.

            I’ve been somewhat aware of how presidents have governed since at least Truman (I can remember my parents listening to FDR’s fireside chats); and from all the presidents that have been in office since then, I cannot think of one aside from FDR who was as truly motivated to try and do the best he could for every single American than Barack Obama.

          • dpaano says:

            And, Indy, now they are complaining that the Democrats are obstructing everything that Trump wants to do…..Trump has even tried to blame the Democrats for his failed healthcare plan even tho’ they were not even allowed to participate in a bipartisan effort to put something together and weren’t even involved in the Committee of 13 (all Republicans, all male, and all white)! How does that tie into the Democrats obstructing the vote on the healthcare plan??? Seriously? They aren’t even allowed to vote on it!

          • Independent1 says:

            Republicans, including Trump, will spew whatever lie they can come up with so as to create a negative impression in the minds of their totally clueless support base – whether or not that lie has any rational basis whatsoever related to anything. And the GOP base is so clueless, they’ll accept the lie as just one more negative to pin on the Democrats.

          • dpaano says:

            Definitely agree….if you tell enough lies even SOME people will believe them. Trump has his voters so screwed up, they believe his EVERY word, and that’s pretty sad.

          • Just A Citizen says:


            Your first error is in trying to claim that a particular political party “created jobs” of any kind. Other than govt. jobs. Which are a little like exercising the Broken Window Fallacy on a daily basis.

            GOP passed all the anti slavery legislation and amendments. GOP was the catalyst for the Civil Rights Act. Which did in the long run turn out to be a negative, so I will grant you that one.

            You are obviously a Partisan Hack, as proven by your silly comments about economic impacts by Party. How about the Great Depression? I suppose you think it was all Hoover’s fault and FDR somehow got us out of it.

            Nice try and deflection, by the way. You still do not understand what it is we awful “others” want. Thus you have no idea whether we view something as actually harmful.

          • Independent1 says:

            More of your pathological lying gibberish!! Everything you posted is a fabrication of reality!!!

          • Independent1 says:

            The Conservative Fantasy History of Civil Rights

            The civil rights movement, once a controversial left-wing fringe, has grown deeply embedded into the fabric of our national story. This is a salutary development, but a problematic one for conservatives, who are the direct political descendants of (and, in the case of some of the older members of the movement, the exact same people as) the strident opponents of the civil rights movement. It has thus become necessary for conservatives to craft an alternative story, one that absolves their own ideology of any guilt. The right has dutifully set itself to its task, circulating its convoluted version of history, honing it to the point where it can be repeated by any defensive College Republican in his dorm room. Kevin Williamson’s cover story in National Review is the latest version of what is rapidly congealing into conservatism’s revisionist dogma.


    • kep says:

      Why do you think PRESIDENT TRUMP was elected? Decades of lies and deception from American politicians and government. And especially after eight years of failed communist progressive liberal policies that have put America on the brink of total destruction. In the real world, liberals do nothing but lie, and it is apparient to any thinking American, otherwise, America would have Crooked Hillary as Queen.

      • He was “elected” by Putin and the Russian Troll Farm. And you’re right about “,,,decades of lies and deception from American politicians…”. But you fail to link your support of Trump with the con game he pulled on you, making you think it was all the politicians fault. YOUR vote counts(at least should) towards who will be elected, and many of those YOU choose have chosen to lie and deceive.

        And you’re just now putting 2+2 together?

      • Independent1 says:

        And more worthless drivel from a pathological lying fool!!!

      • 788eddie says:

        Your lies exceed even those of Donald J. trump.

      • pics fixer says:

        I would like a bit of education from you: Exactly what “communist progressive liberal policies” are you talking about? The policies that prevented us from going into a really deep, second Great Depression with a defunked Auto industry? Stopping the employment free fall? Protecting us from banks doing that to us again [which didn’t go far enough]. So, tell us all what you are talking about.

        As a note……..we were on the brink of total destruction because of the policies of a Conservative Republican President and the republican Congress he had for 6 years that were more interested in party than country.

      • pics fixer says:

        Just to set the record straight, Trump was NOT elected by the majority of the American people, he was elected by a majority of the Electoral Collage which today is a rather archaic system. Things have changed a little since the mid 1700’s, and that majority was in the lower 25% of electoral vote winners. The country as a whole didn’t vote for him, and he did lose the peoples vote by a clear cut majority.

        If by “liberal policies” you mean Social Security- Medicare- Medicaid-unemployment insurance-universal public education, food-water-product-medicine safety- public protection from predatory banks, and more then how could ANYBODY see being ‘liberal’ as a bad thing? What you don’t understand is what progressive policy has brought to all of us and that has been adopted by the rest of modern societies by our lead. Kep, if you’re willing to give all that up so you could save tax money then you’d be losing everything that makes this world a place to live. We all benefit from these ‘liberal’ things everyday, every minuet of the day in-fact.

        So, as a “thinking American”, which one of the above things would you be willing to give up and if anyone in your life is getting advantage from, take it away from them?? If you want those things done more effectively then elect people who will get that done. Don’t confuse execution with policy. What we all want is good policy effectively executed. We want value for our money.

        We would have elected Hillary Clinton President, not queen! Mr. Trump thinks he was elected the ‘Boss’ and all must be loyal to him. As for ‘crooked’ he has conducted his life in a way that would earn him that label with ease. Ask any contractor he has screwed, not to mention prosecutable scams that cost everyday people like you and me trying to get ahead many thousands of hard earned dollars. Hillary has NEVER done anything that even comes remotely close to any of the dishonesties of Mr. Trump.

        • kep says:

          Wait and watch. Everyday, more and more evidence is found about Clinton corruption. Everyday, more and more evidence becoming clear on DNC corruption. While we have a compromised special prosecutor trying to place some fabricated crime at the feet of PRESIDENT TRUMP, there are REAL crimes commited by Hillary, the Clinton Foundation, and the DNC that are being ignored.

          • pics fixer says:

            Every day?? Evidence?? I have not heard even one “new” crime, and by crime I mean a prosecutable offense, even mentioned about Hillary Clinton Not one! Even old ones for that matter. So, if you’d be kind enough to say where you get such news from and what that is, we all could use that info.

            The are no fabricated prosecutable crimes when it comes to Trump. How about the Vacation Condos in Mexico, or that Trump University [he settled for a little more than half what he was being sued for and escaped criminal charges.] As for that Condo scam, pending. How about contractors not getting paid for work done and Trump is accused of having no intentions of paying those bills [that’s stealing in case you don’t know]. How about that meat scam? Also all the times he gave his word about so many other things to people to get them to settle and he never carried through. One example: The very unique, one of a kind front grill work from the Bon Witt Teller building to the Metropolitan Museum of Art to quiet them to a promise he made to the MET. Here is a quote from an article:

            “It’s odd that a person like Trump, who is spending $80 million or $100 million on this building, should squirm that it might cost as much as $32,000 to take down those panels,” Otto Teegen, who designed the bronze grillwork, told the Times. Yet he wasn’t willing to protect the art in this construction deal.

            Trumps’ word isn’t worth very much. A most important quality in an American President, huh. What I said is not fake! There is this thing called Google. Perhaps you heard of it? just type in “Bon Witt Teller grill work. Then check it out. Or, when allot of stuff pops up, tell them all what liars they are.

    • dpaano says:

      As I’ve said before….many of the Trump voters don’t realize that Obamacare and the ACA are one and the same program. They think that if Obamacare is repealed, they’ll still have healthcare under the ACA…..this is the BIG problem and they are going to be terribly surprised when they realize their blunder!

  3. I hate to repeat a theme and idea, but when it comes to atrocities committed against humanity, it deserves to be scrutinized and commented on over and over; and when it comes to bone-headed policies which on the face of things clearly portend disaster without the aid of a crystal ball, this trend must be lambasted as well and the reasons repeated.

    At the apex of criticisms of the ongoing dimwitted strategies and policies, there is this relentless assault of spiritual virtues, while ostensibly giving the appearance of embracing Religion—primarily carried out by one Party in particular, and by its ancillary organs and idealogues promoting it as well. Below that, is the unabashed and hearty embrace of a godless materialism and the manic drive to maintain political primacy; then there is an open and clearly scripted assault on science. This latter item has been on-going since the days of Nixon—maybe an influx of know-nothingness infiltration of Southern Democrats known as “Dixiecrats”, decided to enter the fold of the GOP during the Southern Strategy in order to maintain a de facto conservative agenda to maintain Jim Crow and further the divide between Blacks and Whites, which sadly became a unwritten Conservative Core Value, which no conservative politicians in their right mind would dare assert this, for fear of losing their jobs. By this influx of southern politicians coming from a region with historically depressing levels of funding for education—public and private—the anti-science agenda has taken root in the GOP and explains its adversarial approach to the topic of climate change, supporting Creationist non-science hogwash, and a persistent literal interpretation of every single verse in the Bible, regardless of how ridiculous and impossible such interpretations stack up against Science, a discipline and gift from God that is in harmony with Religion as it is meant to be by the Creator.

    Given all this, it would be incorrect to infer that the Democrats are spotless and without major flaws. But clearly, there is a glaring discrepancy overall against the attitudes and ideas of one segment of governance compared to other segments.

  4. dbtheonly says:

    I’m surprised that Mr. Krugman is only now reaching this conclusion. One would have thought that the constant denial of climate change would have enlightened. Or before that the insistence that Iraqis would welcome American troops as liberators. Or “trickle-down” economics. Or “supply side” economics and the Laffer Curve. Going back as least as far as, “Prospertiy is just around the corner.”

    • ⭐️Most Accurate Poster 2017⭐️ says:

      I don’t think this is a new conclusion on Krugman’s part, I think he’s just taken the time to write a more up-to-date list given the recent series of contradictory lies from the WH.

  5. Just A Citizen says:

    If anyone should know what distortion of reality and outright propaganda looks like it is Mr. Krugman. Maybe I will have to look into his allegations given his level of expertise.

    Or, I could just dismiss it as his usual partisan socialist tripe.

    • pics fixer says:

      Krugman is anything but socialist. He jus believes that totally free market system without governing rules and enforcement can destroy a countries economic system. We did get a small taste of that.

      • Just A Citizen says:

        No, you didn’t. It is a great ruse people play when things happen to claim it is due to lack of regulation. What happened the last time was a combination of Govt policies pushing housing and lack of enforcement of existing rules.

        The closest thing we have had to a an unregulated economic sector in modern times is the Internet. Notice how that has been so awful?

        • dtgraham says:

          So you think that there was a lack of government enforcement of existing rules too huh.

        • pics fixer says:

          Hi there Just A Citizen;
          One thing that you’re 100% correct and it was the jar of poison is the fact that enforcement of the existing rules didn’t happen. Had the rules we had at the time been enforced, much of the misery would have been averted or at least slowed down. As for the derivatives, what rules?? That became a free-for-all. Rules governing Derivatives are now in-place and rules that require your broker to place the client first are also in place. Imagine, you have to make a law that says ‘clients first’. That alone gives you an idea just how bad these Wall Street types are.

          As for Government policies: The Clinton Administration did make getting a Home Mortgage easier and in retrospect that may have been a bad idea. However it didn’t give the banks a green light to steal, to become predatory lenders. Mortgage companies sprung up all over the place, selling below prime loans to people who, after about 2 to 3 years wouldn’t be able to pay the loans. Banks, gleefully bought those loans from the loan companies which released those initial lenders from responsibility for those loans. What was really tragic is the news media didn’t report this obvious ruinous activity and inform the people about it. The press failed miserably to do its’ job so all this preventable activity continued to a near ruinous end. A hand full of people became Billionaires and nobody got punished. So, you are correct but the intent of the policy was to make home buying easier it was the greed of the banks [the people in them of course] that turned them into the predatory and illegal lender they became which nearly ruined us and did ruin many others. With awareness It could have been stopped.

          As for the internet: Net Neutrality doesn’t prevent common sense rules to protect consumers. It is not Government control over what you can do or watch or communicate. Net Neutrality is what keeps large service providers from doing that and from controlling what content gets a fast lane to you and who won’t get that fast lane. That can and will effect what info and entertainment you get and how much you’ll pay for it. More of course. By keeping Net Neutrality you prevent that. We must keep Net Neutrality so every Provider gets the same access. Keeping open access is what keeping Net Neutrality is about. The FCC is the obvious place for the internet because the rules would then protect Net Neutrality. We become the victims of service providers without Net Neutrality.

          Read this, it’ll help and it’s short:

          • Just A Citizen says:


            First of all, thanks for the reasoned and polite response. Kind of unusual for this place.

            I have a pretty good grasp of what happened, in prior collapses and the most recent. People have forgotten about the dot com bubble bursting and its “recession”.

            There are two forces at play in all this. First is the result of “unintended consequences”. We pass “laws” to try and control behaviors, or create favors, which have bad consequences down the road.

            Which brings me to the second. The destruction of the “moral hazard”. Derivatives was a prime example. People don’t connect the dots completely. Bailing out Chrysler and the S&L industry decades ago set a trend and an expectation. Along with the belief that Govt. is somehow smarter than the combined Market Place, and therefore can manipulate things in a positive manner. This resulted in erosion of the “Moral Hazard” of doing stupid and even illegal things.

            We fail to realize that the most efficient and maybe effective means of regulating these kinds of things is to NOT regulate them at all. Simply enforce the common law that has been codified as prohibition of theft and fraud. Another solution is to simply wall off the speculative stuff from the general market place, to prevent innocent people from falling for stupid ideas. If the Wall Street boys want to play high finance games, let them. And let them suffer the full benefit AND consequences.

            I think we pass far to many laws to protect ourselves from our own covetous desires and stupidity.

            Two comments made in the last decade caused my hair to stand on end, which also show how Govt. was linked to the collapse.. George W. Bush in the State of the Union bragging about how many new homeowners there were, especially among the minority population in the cities. An obvious red flag concerning lending as there was a good reason that home ownership had hovered at about the same maximum for decades.

            The other was by Greenspan when he bragged about how our economy was booming because we had figured out how to spread financial risk around the world. Be wary of any economist, especially Fed person, who starts talking about increasing “liquidity” beyond normal means. This told me there were games afoot regarding the derivatives and other instruments being peddled around the world. And the FED knew about it and encouraged it.

            Frankly, if certain things are so risky or dangerous that we need thousands of pages of regulations and regulators to protect us, maybe those things should just be illegal. I have thought derivatives a bit fraudulent in the first place. Selling pieces of contracts that are not owned by the sellers in totality seems crooked to me.

          • pics fixer says:

            You’re right about far too many laws. Most of them are out of date and a regular house cleaning of regs that don’t work any more should be done on a regular bases otherwise they pile up, contradict each other, become confusing……….say what, that sounds familiar. Hummm, we end up with a 1,000 regs and only a quarter of them are relevant.

            There was a law that kept a wall between investment banks and savings banks. It was called Glass-Steagall and it kept us away from the troubles we are still crawling out of. That is one big thing that Pres. Clinton did that still pisses me off and that opened the door to all the abuses since then. He wanted to “modernize” the financial laws to protect the system in modern times and did the exact opposite. Dump that, bring back Glass Steagall, give it a little tweak and the BS that almost ruined us will not happen again. Also, arrest the greedy bankers, let them spend a few years in prison, fine them until their eyes pop and I assure you that will go along way to prevention. Funny thing, Greenspan was partly responsible for the elimination of Glass-Steagall.

            The one thing that can’t be allowed is for a major industry and major banks to go under at the same time. If that had happened the great depression would have looked like a minor incident. You can’t even imagine how terrible that would have been and how long it would take to crawl out of it. Our government can [at our insistence] make laws and set regs that protect our system yet allow for investment, innovation and growth. When there are good rules that are really enforced there is a degree of certainty. That creates an atmosphere for innovation and investment. I can tell you, as a small businessman, how very true that is.

            What Glass Steagall didn’t and what the new but not good [my thinking] was a legal and codified way to break up banks that are ‘to big to fail’ so that they can’t harm the system when they fail. That would be one of the tweaks I’d put into Glass Steagall. along with tight control of the derivatives market.

            Banks should have a certain amount of cash on hand to protect themselves from a bad investment or some other slip-up. That fund cannot come from savings accounts or investment accounts. A stress test will show them what they would need.

            Can government do this……..YES! Keep in mind that we get the government we want. We put them there and if we do because ideology and party are more important than our nation, failing to remember that we are all in the same boat, when one sinks we all drown, then we can’t complain. Also, when the media [press] fails to do its’ job of informing us and outing bad officials, then the Press fails our founders who knew that a free and adversarial press is fundamental to our Democracy. Blame ourselves. We installed the government.

            Here is something I say allot and this is from POGO: We have seen the enemy and it is us.

            Sorry for all the verbiage.

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