By Jason Sattler

Paul Ryan Says He Isn’t Done Holding The Economy Hostage

December 16, 2013 9:15 am Category: Memo Pad, Politics 298 Comments A+ / A-
Paul Ryan Says He Isn’t Done Holding The Economy Hostage

In the spectacular Republican burnout at the end of the October government shutdown, it was easy to miss that America came within just hours of a full economic meltdown.

The brinksmanship over the demand to defund Obamacare or at least completely maim it lasted for 16 days and cost an estimated $24 billion. But if the standoff had gone on just another day longer, the debt ceiling would have been breached, causing economic chaos.

It’s difficult to predict what kind of damage the economy might have suffered, because no Congress had ever been stupid enough to default on our debts on purpose. The debt limit crisis of 2011 cost the stock market thousands of points and stunted job creation for months. There wasn’t a similar effect in 2013 because Wall Street assumed the GOP was crying wolf, and they were right.

But one mistake, one procedural error, one coup against a congressional leader could have sparked the beginning of a default. And many economists believe the results would have resembled the 2008 financial crisis — but worse.

As she’s sold the budget deal she negotiated with House Republicans that doesn’t extend the debt limit, Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) has said, “We have brought certainty and stability.”

And the economy does seem to be more stable since the GOP capitulated in October. “The volatility of the U.S. dollar in the last 90 days fell to 4.93 percent on Dec. 13 from a yearly high of 7.34 percent in September as a shutdown and debt ceiling crisis loomed, according to the Bloomberg U.S. Dollar Index that represents 10 major currencies weighted by liquidity and trade flows,” Bloomberg‘s Derek Wallbank and Kathleen Hunter noted.

But Murray’s partner, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), seems intent on disrupting that stability.

“We don’t want nothing out of this debt limit,” he told Fox News Sunday.

In other words, House Republican demands are forthcoming. The last time they put together a list of such demands, it was an insane laundry list of right-wing wishes cribbed from the Koch Brothers’ letter to Santa. Somehow being the party held responsible for the greatest financial crisis in a half-century has given Republicans the freedom to boldly threaten a return to such a crisis again and again, without fear of destroying their party.

The president offered, in return, nothing. Obviously regretting setting the precedent that the economy could be held hostage, President Obama has vowed never to negotiate over the debt limit again.

With Republican factions warring with themselves and everyone in Washington seeing their approval ratings shrink, would they dare play chicken with the economy as the midterm elections rapidly approach?

Paul Ryan knows he can’t afford not to at least seem as if he’s willing to do so without losing the Tea Party support that makes him such an asset to House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH). And the president knows he can’t afford to give in.

The result is that another crisis has been averted, but a far worse one looms.

Paul Ryan Says He Isn’t Done Holding The Economy Hostage Reviewed by on . In the spectacular Republican burnout at the end of the October government shutdown, it was easy to miss that America came within just hours of a full economic In the spectacular Republican burnout at the end of the October government shutdown, it was easy to miss that America came within just hours of a full economic Rating:

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Comments

  • Buford2k11

    The “granny starver” won’t be happy until grannies are starving worse than they are now…I wonder where the money is going to come from when the war with China starts…the GOP is putting our country in danger with the lack governing, and their stupidity in foreign matters…the Pope would not like ryan or any of his cronies because of their policies and as for their souls??? Lost, gone, and unavailable for comments…

    • mike

      The lack of governing starts in the White House!!! It hasn’t since the beginning and never will. Just look at Obamacare!!!! Obama and his administration are all AMATEURS.

      • Buford2k11

        Nope, wrong…Fox is wrong…and all of the winger/baggers are wrong…wrong…wrong…I look at the ACA and wonder why all you wingers want to continually hurt people? The ACA is good for the country…it should have been single payer, but all you granny starvers have no soul, no humanity…GOVERNING is about us, not just you….You are part of the problem…and your bigotry is showing…

        • mike

          Sorry, keep dreaming and continue to live in your fantasy world. Dems are very worried, independents running away. Country going in the wrong direction growing. Obama poll numbers dropping. An administration run by Boobs, bores and a Narcissist. Sign-language interpreter was not the only fake at Mandela’s Memorial, don’t forget Mr. “Selfie” himself.

          • Independent1

            I see, a bunch of amateurs!! I guess that’s why the unemployment rate despite the GOP’s every effort to keep it from coming down is now down to 7% when Bush left it at 10.1%.

            And I guess that’s whey the auto industry today is making profits it hadn’t seen since Clinton was in office.

            And is that why deficit spending is now below 680 billion when Bush’s last budget included 1.9 trillion in deficit spending?

            Or is that why Obama has been the smallest spending president since Eisenhower and deficit spending has fallen faster over the past 5 years than when Truman cut spending after WWII??

            Or is Obama amateur why more troublesome illegal aliens have been deported during his 1st term than during any other presidency and more than some 2 presidents combined?

            And I guess his being an amateur is why his administration has recovered more fraud monies from crooks in the defense and healthcare sectors than any 2 presidents??

            Wow!! When we’re clueless we’re really clueless!!!

          • mike

            What’ s the U6 rate-13.2%? Nice try on Bush’s U3 #, it was 7.3(BLS). Fact: Last U3 numbers before 2012 election were fixed by administration to show lower number. Still being done.

            Auto industry govt lost 10 billion on a 49 billion investment- pretty poor numbers. Profits by going leaner-fewer workers and less pay for new hires. Everything you are against. LOL

            On deficit spending: down because of more taxes. Debt still going up and should hit 19 trillion by 2015. Budget going in wrong direction. Interest on debt over 220 billion in 2013 but will rise substantially in the future if interest rates are not held low.

            As to immigration: 55% deported were criminals. His selective use of power shows he is selective in what part of the law he wants to enforce. Bush deported those taking jobs from Americans. Obama has an obligation to enforce the law not what parts he likes.

            Yes, recovery of fraud has been done to a small degree, but when the FBI puts it at 75 billion to 250 billion a year, the recovery is small potatoes.

          • Independent1

            Everything you said is total BS. Bush’s U3 rate was bit 7.3 on 1/20/2009 it was well over 15% keep on with the lying!!

            And budget going the wrong way is total nonsense Obama is BY FAR the smallest spending president since Eisenhower with an average budget increase of 1.4% in contrast to Reagan and Bush 2 at over 8%; Bush 1 around 5.5% and Clinton even at 3.5%.

            I’m not even going to response to the rest of your lies and distortions!!!

          • mike

            Sorry you can’t handle the truth about U3, BLS stands for Bureau of Labor Statistics, quit being so lazy and look them up. Jan. 2009 U3 was 7.8.

            As to Unger’s article, typical left distortion comparing apples to oranges- lumping what was Obama’s spending under Bush. numbers-Obama is the largest spender. Obamacare hasn’t even started and it will jump by 2022(in 8 short years) to 5.8 trillion, 47 trillion in the next 10 years by Obama’s 2013 budget(OBM). So, your comments are typical diarrhea of the brain from low info person.
            PS: other statements you will not respond to are also true.

          • Independent1

            More pure BS!! I’m starting to think you’re one of the Faux News writers that create all the lies and distortions Faux News spews.

            If you’re not, you should approach them. You obviously have a talent for distorting reality!!!

          • mike

            Your responses keep getting shorter. LOL
            You can’t refute my facts so you go lame and just say BS. Very funny.
            You are the one living in another universe.

            EXTRA,! EXTRA! EXTRA!!

            WASHINGTON POST:: BIGGEST LIE OF 2013- “IF YOU LIKE YOUR INSURANCE YOU CAN KEEP YOUR INSURANCE” SAID PRESIDENT OBAMA.

          • Independent1

            I’ve got to concede that you’re right about the 7.8% rate at 1/20/09, the 10.1% was the Unemployment Rate when Obama was able to stop the slide of more than 800,000 jobs/month that were taking place when Bush left office. The 7.8% was a momentary number as the rate skyrocketed because of the economic disaster he allowed to happen. Had Obama not insisted on following through with the auto industry bailout and the Stimulus, the 10.1% would have turned into 20+% because America would have ended up in a depression (so say the vast majority of economists in America), And before you start railing about the Stimulus, the vast majority of economists insist not only that the stimulus was absolutely necessary, but that it should have been closer to 2 trillion than to 1 trillion.

            And Obama never lied about keeping your insurance. All existing policies have been grandfathered in by the ACA legislation. It is not Obama who lied, but the insurance companies who have chosen to cancel their policies, as the vast majority of them have always done for private sector insurance sales, mainly to save face because they did not want to have to admit to the insureds that they were being scammed by owning policies that weren’t worth the paper they were printed on.

          • mike

            So, when Obama’s made his apology to Chuck Todd about his statement, that is a lie? So the WP is all wrong about “lie of the 2013″. In 2009 in a meeting with Congressional leaders, I believe at the Blair house, when he said that about 9 million would lose their insurance, that is a lie. He Lied, PERIOD. No spin will work, watch the damn video.

            “CHOSE TO CANCEL”, now that is true BS-they were forced to cancel because of the law. Period. They had no choice. Period.
            As to Stimulus, maybe short term but not long term. Unemployment still went up. Most of the growth 3.5 was from private sector(2.4) because “Cash for Clunkers” and others.
            After that growth was under 2%- no sustainability, more debt. And the economy is really growing now, RIGHT????

          • Independent1

            I really think you should be writing for Faux News, You have a knack for picking facts that are half true – like the 7.8% rate for Bush knowing that unemployment at the time was skyrocketing and you could then try to foist the blame on Obama.”

            And now you’re trying to claim that after the stimulus that the unemployment rate kept going up – more LIES!! Here’s a graph from the BLS which shows clearly that the unemployment plunged shortly after Obama followed up with the Stimulus. Go bury your head in the sand. No one on the NM is going to believe your LIES!!!

            The Graph is for the Bush vs Obama Unemployment Rate with Bush in Red and Obama in Blue.

          • mike

            Nice try!! Average U3 for 2009 was 8.5, 2010 about 9.8, 2011 about 9.0, so it really plunged. Just remember I was pointing out you said 10% unemployment during last month Bush. You said I was right, Remember??? Figures don’t lie. Don’t forget U3 based on people looking for jobs not those who had quit looking, U6 13+%. That is the real number.

            Afraid to touch the lies I caught you in in my last post.

            Just remember growth has been anemic and with no growth no jobs. In 2012-216 billion in new regs.(double 2011)and 87 million hours of paper work-WP. 2013 5.8 billion in new regs. Total regs 1.8 trillion taken out of economy yearly of which Obama accounts for 488 billion in less than 4 years. 55k in pages. These regulations are destroying growth. Obama is so pro-business. LOL

            George Washington University Regulatory studies: Stultifying, job-killing regulations has been the Hallmark of the Obama Administration, ergo, the middle class.

          • Independent1

            Nice try yourself but NO CIGAR!!!. Your figures are meaningless. Just look at the graph stupid!! Obama turned the job loss slide around within 3 months by following through with the auto bailout and Stimulus and from that point the economy has been creating jobs.

            THERE ARE TWO REASONS THE JOBS PICTURE HASN’T IMPROVED FASTER AND THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA NOT TRYING TO GET THINGS ROLLING!!!

            1) Nitwit totally unAmerican companies like Mitt Romney’s Bain Capital were buying out foundering companies during the Great Recession, stripping them of their assets, including their pension funds; destroying all the companies’ jobs in America and shipping them overseas. Leaving millions of Americans without jobs and hundreds of thousands without their full pensions – and while dumping the pension liabilities on us taxpayers.

            And Mitt Romney was participating in this unAmerican cannibalism of American companies right up to a week before the 2012 election. These totally unAmerican Corporate Pirates were destroying American jobs almost as fast as the economy could create them for at least a year and half after Obama took office. This kept the net jobs from rising sooner and faster.

            Reason number 2 is: The nitwit GOP has refused to pass either of Obama’s 2 jobs bills over the past 3 years despite the fact that the CBO had forecasted that his 2nd jobs bill ‘The American Jobs Act’ would create 4-6 million jobs.

            If you want to start carping about how slow America’s recovery has been over the past two years, Obama is not the culprit. It’s unAmerican corporate pirates that would destroy American companies and jobs during a Great Recession and the GOP that would twiddle it’s thumbs and let millions of the people who voted them into office continue to struggle on unemployment just to follow through on a political agenda – do everything to make Obama fail!!!

          • mike

            Oh, but I am enjoying my cigar. My numbers are from the Bureau of Labor statistics. Yes, U6 jumped up but U3 moved slightly over those time periods. No fudging with numbers, so now the BLS is not telling the truth? I know you can direct me to where you got your graph, Right!!!
            Let’s forget the U3 and really get a picture of the economy with the Participation Rate. Is it up or down??? That is a good indicator of the health of the economy. Not a pretty picture.
            It seems you are incapable understanding the 4000 + regulations added under Obama that are sucking the growth out of this economy. When 488 billion taken out of the economy the growth will not happen.
            So Mitt was the only one destroying the economy, Right? What a laugh. You seem to forget that GE’s CEO Immelt headed the Advisory Panel for Obama while moving divisions abroad and sitting with 79 billion in foreign banks so he would not have to pay taxes. He employed more employees abroad than employed in US. What a great example. LOL
            I know you can show me where Mitt was cannibalizing right up to the election. Please, please enlighten me with the proof.
            It also seems you are unaware of the close ties of Obama and Bain(those terrible people). Jeff Zients who worked for Bain has been a close aid to Obama since 2009 and is Head of the National Economic Council. Also, one of Obama’s biggest 2012 bundlers wasJonathon Lavine, managing director for Bain, so he must feel they are the good guys, right?? By the way Obama received 182k from Bain plus millions to the Democratic Party(Common Dreams-progressive organization).
            No, the Democratic controlled Senate voted the Jobs Bills down. Plus, both were bad bills filled with possible fraud in the stock market. Both bills filled with more taxes, less regulatory control, etc.. Reid refused to allow amendments-His way or the Highway.
            Whose carping about economy? I am just pointing out all the new regulations is slowing down any recovery.
            Extra!! Extra! WASHINGON POST
            Obama biggest Liar of the Year-Three times. LOL!!!
            What happened to all that TRUST???? Down the drain.

          • angelsinca

            First you said the graph was of the UE rate. Then you call it jobs lost. You also seem to be ignoring the conversion of full time employment to part time jobs under your hero. The JOBS numbers look so much better when you have four part time jobs now for every full time job. Before Obama, the trend was reversed.

          • Independent1

            Sorry dumbcoff, but American companies have been utilizing part-time jobs to get out of providing benefits to a big chunk of their employees ever since Reagan was in off. I’ts just that because of the disaster that Bush allowed to happen that they’ve started using that tactic more. I’ts had nothing to do with Obama. Just like the food stamp usage going up that you right-wingers like to carp about – over 75% of food stamp users live in Red States and they’re not on food stamps because of Obama, they’re on food stamps because of their own clueless GOP governors and legislators for cutting budgets and state services during a recession which has caused them to lose one or two breadwinners in the family and need food stamps and other welfare benefits. 21 of the 25 states with the highest percent of people living in poverty are all Red States whose residents therefore need welfare including food stamps!!

          • angelsinca

            Blah, blah, blah. Same old liberal denial junk, not to mention the inate need to make up personal insult and kiddie name calling while distorting reality. Grow up. You should change your ID to ‘DefinitelyBiased69′. No more time to waste on you. Have a good day.

          • Russell Byrd

            Same old no information LYING. I guess in your view, Liberal is bad because we generally tell the truth. Takes the fun out of your no content posting.

            Literally, you countered sound argument with name calling nonsense. Par for the course.

          • angelsinca

            Sorry, no more engaging with you. The delusions are wearing thin. If history repeats, the last word by you should be more personal insult intended to cause hurt. Adios, g’bye, ciao!

          • Russell Byrd

            Flagged, AND a letter to MEMO is being written as we speak.

            As well, you have “dismissed” me and your other opposition repeatedly, but yet you are back within minutes.

            The insults are just to vent any latent anger I may have and to get your attention. WE cannot counter you with fact, nor can we engage you in civil conversation. You only agree to always disagree.

            I have told you this repeatedly and a whole lot more. I have been VERY honest with you, and you either reply with derision or you ignore evidence completely. THEN you just move on to your next controversy and slur.

            I called you a few bad names that I feel you more than earned. You on the other hand are a low/no content poster that equates with the perfect definition of TROLL. You use misinformation, questionable scholarship (really, NO scholarship) to disrupt the exercise of other posters free speech. AND you think I should be banned.

            Well guess what, jerk. I am going to flag a lot more of your posts, until you are gone for good, or I am. Maybe, they will see who wants peace in here and ban the trolls. Starting with YOU.

          • Russell Byrd

            On the one occasion that I caved in totally and “kissed and made up” with you, you spent the next posts telling me how stupid I was for not agreeing with you earlier.

            I did not even agree with you, but I (unfortunately, not you) acknowledged that you had a right to a point of view. Just not an uninformed, overbearing, bullying, and obviously false point of view. BUT I did try to make peace. I got a “face full” as a reward.

            The tragedy for you really is, banned or not, I will be out of here, and will never return until you are gone. So, they cannot hurt me. BUT WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

            If you answer that question, it will be one out of a hundred. Don’t think I will hold my breath.

          • angelsinca

            R. Byrd wrote: “On the one occasion that I caved in totally and “kissed and made up” with you, you spent the next posts telling me how stupid I was for not agreeing with you earlier.”

            This never happened. Nice try though. Surely you understand that lack of agreement doesn’t indicate lack of intelligence.

          • Russell Byrd

            It most certainly did happen. Your answer sort of confirms what I said. In your view, everyone is supposed to kiss the a** of a lying scum like you. You think the whole world should pat you on the back for being a racist, homophobic, sociopathic follower of evil. WRONG.

            Oh, by the way, you once again LIED and broke your promise not to reply to me.

            FLAGGED for being redundant and totally off-topic.

          • Russell Byrd

            LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, LIAR, . . . That is the answer for just a few of the times I have read the same claptrap.

          • angelsinca

            “I guess in your view, Liberal is bad because we generally tell the truth”

            No, this is not my view.

          • Russell Byrd

            Once again, you LIED about not ever replying to me again. How many times is it? I stopped counting at twenty.

            Let’s just say that I repeat all that I previously said. It is still on topic to your LYING tendencies.

            We Liberal’s generally do tell the truth. EVEN your LYING rationales as to why we don’t represent total LIES. You make up nonsense [LIES] routinely to plaster us as evil. The FACTS are you are hate-filled bigots that think this nation belongs totally to you and yours. In my view, it belongs to all of us.

            Like the Kock brothers, they have spent $400 mil just recently to bad mouth Obama and the ACA. With that much propaganda flying around, I would feel stupid believing anything those racist liars have to say about anything. Why not spend $400 mil on a campaign to unify our people and progress into the future? NOT your gang.

            If there is one breath of life left in you, you will always do evil. I guess you cannot help it.

          • Russell Byrd

            BUT in your view, it is so much more expedient to LIE to get what you want.

            Really, for an evil person like you, LYING is a wholly satisfying exercise. For you, religion and church, are just exercises in giving yourself power and good feeling. You do not believe anything that the Man born in this season taught. You are just a Hell bound whore.

          • Russell Byrd

            WHY DO YOU DERIDE THE TRUTH AND THOSE THAT TELL IT, WHEN YOU COULD JUST MOVE ON?

          • Russell Byrd

            Answer is required or question will continue to be repeated. Bullshit is over.

            WHY DO YOU THINK I AM EXCESSIVELY RUDE TO YOU, WHEN YOU TREAT OTHER POSTERS VERY, VERY BADLY?

            You have been repeatedly told that I only address you as I do because of the way YOU ADDRESS OTHERS!

          • Russell Byrd

            WHAT IS YOUR POINT OF BEING HERE? You “educate” no one. A man, or are you a woman today, needs to educate himher self FIRST before hesheit tries to teach anyone else.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Quoting economyincrisis.org:

            The page you requested could not be found.

            Really a fine article to prove right-tard theories. ROTFL!

          • Independent1

            When are you going to stop trying to brainwash people other than yourself with these right-wing wacko created websites???

          • mike

            http://www.hoover.org/publications/defining-ideas/article/156801
            I am just trying to help you grow not live in a vacuum.

          • Russell Byrd

            Mikey, about all you can grow is slime. Of course, it will be very, very green slime form all the fertilizer you put out.

            I think you are the one that needs to grow . . . grow up that is. The only vacuum here is between your ears.

            Like your stupidity over your namesake “Julia.” And your disgusting deceit over service personnel deaths. And your failure to respond to pertinent questions. And your LYING about not being a LIAR. And your no content, bullying, trolling posts. And on, and on . . .

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Priceless. How can you put a price tag on something that has no value of any kind.

          • angelsinca

            Give it rest Byrd. The man posted info to be helpful. He doesn’t deserve to be attacked.

          • Russell Byrd

            BULLSH*T. The “man” [lying ape] came here to ATTACK, just as you do. He posts garbage that even a right-wacker knows is tainted.

            He, and you, have no rationale to be here except to disrupt legitimate conversation. Once again, you cowardly sh*ts know you can say what would get you killed in everyday conversation, AND you are totally safe living in your Mom’s basement.

            WHY DON’T YOU GIVE IT A REST? You stirred this back up eleven days after I ran your a** off the last time.

          • Russell Byrd

            Once again, YOU LIED. You have said, what? 40-60-60+ times that you would not reply to me again, but yet, here you are.

            “Give it rest” angelsinhell! And yes, he not only deserves to be attacked, but he, and you, deserve much worse.

            Grow up and get a life.

          • Russell Byrd

            Two very useless articles. . . . You are now correct, but you can thank me later.

            We have repeatedly identified these articles as bias garbage, yet you persist.

            The good thing is, you are now doing all the leg work. Though I know it takes you very little time to gather this trash.. I used to work for as high as two hours trying to vet my posts with documentation AND then never got anything but a dismissive insult, OR you started a new thread with the same old LIES.

            That is why I slowly learned to stop playing your game. You are not here for a free exchange of ideas, but only to confuse, confound, bully, and irritate the posters that do.

          • Russell Byrd

            Nice try YOUR ass. You got beat by fact, but as you are just here to lie and disrupt, you continue to spread falsehoods.

            Maybe understand this. Everyone here that matters knows you are a lying, useless waste of skin. Yeah, you stir people up with your lies and get some people to reply, but all you are ultimately doing is recruiting for the good guys. Of course, since in your stupidity you will refuse, yes, willfully refuse to understand, the “good guys” are us.

          • Russell Byrd

            Insurance companies are forcing the cancellations of most of the policies. The rest are changes by the ACA that forces the insurance companies to stop selling useless JUNK policies.

            Economy is not growing because your rich idols are bleeding our people and economy to death, not paying much in taxes, and providing nothing of value in return. Coupled with Returd opposition to any job creations by the administration.

            If we cannot get jobs for our people, the economy will not thrive. Under the present system that you so dearly love, the evil fat-cats don’t have to do anything to get rich. So why should they help their fellow citizens? By the way, that is their view, not mine.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Does not really prove anything that a winger should be too excited over. Seems to support the general knowledge that the insurance companies are overeager to punish poorer policy holders in order to enhance profits, damage the ACA, and prove they are above the law.

          • Russell Byrd

            When I think of you, it’s read it and “creep.”

          • Independent1

            You have to be pretty delirious if you thing I’m going to waste my time reading a California right-wing biased website. I’ve got better websites of my own that say your website is pure BS:

            California ACA enrollments have hit 15,000/day.

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/18/1263785/-Here-Comes-the-Boom-ACA-enrollments-up-to-MINIMUM-of-21K-per-day?detail=email2

            http://my.fool.com/profile/TMFFishBiz/featured.aspx

          • Russell Byrd

            You shame me! I did read it AND you are quite right. It is a total piece of crap.

            Think I would learn that I was wasting my time.

            Isn’t it strange that anything that does not agree with mike and company passes through them like a sieve? I guess they (figuratively) enjoy the taste of crap.

          • Independent1
          • Russell Byrd

            Thank you. I will check those two out in the morning. Have a good night! You can gather pertinent information in a fraction of the time Mikey can gather bullsh*t. It really is a shame we have such mental midgets running around loose.

            There is no shame if one is not as smart as the next guy, but being an overbearing a-hole that is as ignorant as they come is Mikey’s special problem. And our cross to bear. Maybe, I should be happy that he is so stupid?

          • Independent1

            Mike, gvette, and the other trolls have this retarded mindset that they absolutely refuse to change. Trying to reason with them is a total waste of time. Whatever facts you give them just roll off like water off a duck’s back. I’m guessing they’re getting paid to be pain in the butts on the NM so nothing we say is going to make a dent in their already made up minds.

          • Russell Byrd

            One of the reasons that I quit posting, and I was only casual at best, was the amount of wasted time that I could use to do actual good things in the world.

            BUT, and I hate to admit this publicly. After hearing about some of the news services that had dropped quite a number of blogs, including the Memo, because of “low quality posts,” I came to the conclusion that the Memo should have been taking steps to defend its own turf from the likes of that trash.

            This is not about curtailing free speech, but it is about having an atmosphere where conversation can be had freely, without constant warfare and disruption, by idiot trolls and liars.

            Mikey did make a partial point, but he misses the central issue. On purpose of course. If I came here and disrupted like he does and if I spoke to everyone like I do to Mikey, I would expect to be banned. Yet, nothing happens. Of course, he already has it in his head that he will just come back with another avatar, if he does get banned.

          • Russell Byrd

            Maybe I misread, but I had to stick around to tell you this one. Mikey is not going to post to me any more, because he just cannot get me to understand. BooHoo!

            BUT, and this will get you, he is going to post the truth, in a link to an article every time I post. Hilarious!

            He has pretty much claimed he would never respond to me again on a number of occasions, but he has never been quite dumb enough to claim he will not post the posts he will use prove me wrong. Yeah, that is double talk, but I am tired.

            I think this nit-wit ought to be put into protective custody before he hurts himself.

          • mike
          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Irrelevant to the discussion and not on topic to the on-going conversation. . . . Of course, that is what you desire. To “spread it around.”

            Do you even know what we have been talking about?
            Do you even know the title of the article without looking?
            Did you even read the article?
            Why did you really come here if your only purpose was to automatically disagree and stir up the other posters?
            Please answer, as I am flagging all your posts AND this post as well.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Please, re-read above post.

          • Russell Byrd

            Mike, you will have to stew in your own juice for awhile. I will see you tomorrow. Be ready for a VERY long session. Have a very bad night!

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            You have been carrying on endlessly about your three guys and all they run is an informational site of dubious value. How many times did you push that insignificant fact as being of world shaking importance. And then to find out that it is not a hill of beans. Why do you think I factually call you a LIAR. You take the cake for ignorance and no content posts, and have absolutely no shame in falsifying or twisting facts..

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            After last posting fiasco by Mikey-Bikey, posting off-topic and biased article links, ALL links will be dealt with in the manner of the current policy.

          • Russell Byrd

            Dealt with in standard fashion . . . .

          • Russell Byrd

            Put in context, almost every point those LIARS try to claim is a “FAIL.” Of course, for you, claiming is better than fact. By the way, that is LYING and the tactic of a LIAR.

          • Russell Byrd

            You post no facts. The answers get shorter for a VERY obvious reason. All that needed to be said has been said repeatedly. You are just too stupid, evil, racist, and down right mean to understand, or even care to understand. As always, you are just here to disrupt legitimate conversation, by spewing shit.

          • Russell Byrd

            Still talking U3 and U6 bullshit, even though I proved multiple times that you do not understand what the figures really mean. On top of the fact that you have not a single clue as to how the figures are compiled.

          • disqus_ivSI3ByGmh

            Inde, you know better than to confuse a right winger with facts. They upset the fantasy that they keep hearing about on Fox.

          • mike

            Fantasy is all yours.

          • plc97477

            Or making up out of nothing.

          • neeceoooo

            And this is the first time in 4 years that I have gotten a raise so I take that as the econom y is looking pretty good.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Of course, but no one else has faced a GOP induced “recession” that the GOP is working like maggots to continue so they can spin it back at Obama. With millions hurting, expenditures will always go up. The GOP’s solution is to just let the unfortunate “drown.” Unfortunately, like the presidential election, the voters may very well figure this out and the GOP may very well lose it all.

          • Independent1

            Russell, I’m sure what Mike is trying to show you is akin to a bunch of graphs I got passed to me from some Tea Party folks. The facts and graphs have been cleverly manipulated to appear to show factual data but with partly fudged numbers or omitted specifics that make it look like Obama and the Dems are responsible for an enormous increase in our spending and debt which is pure BS.

            For example, one graph supposedly shows the increase in our debt based on who is Speaker of the House. For Hastert, the graph shows our debt increase as negative with it rising suddenly as Nancy Pelosi took over as Speaker in 2006 – as if she was responsible for the disaster that Bush allowed to happen which resulted in a sharp surge in spending and the debt. But to have negative numbers under Hastert when Bush was adding 350-500 billion in deficit spending virtually every year was an obvious gross manipulation of the truth. But then lying has always been the way the GOP tries to get away with everything.

          • Russell Byrd

            Yeah, on another of his links, they did EXACTLY that. The first question I ask is, is Mikey and company that evil and vicious, or are they so stupid that they do not realize they are getting played, too?

          • Russell Byrd

            When you consider the supposed “economic miracle” of the Bush years, versus the mess he left Obama, with all the unemployment that Returds continue to foster, the graph actuallly shows things are much better under Obama. Of course, you are too stupid and evil to understand what I mean.

            Expenditures are higher under Obama, because the need is three to four times higher. Adjusting the Bush numbers results in a much worse scenario. Of course, your solution is to starve 20% of the population.

            How convenient an idea for a racist that wants to trade Democracy for Plutocracy.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            The Washington Post article comes very near to being actionable in court. It is a clear attempt to twist what was said into the opposite meaning. I heard the speech, he was berating the reporters to STOP LISTENING TO RIGHT WING LIES.

            Therefore, the WP has NO credibility, and is just a yellow journalism rag, bought by rich right-wingers.

            The Forbes article is not surprising for its bias. It was written by right-wing ultra-capitalists for domestic consumption. It has repeatedly been proven false, and with the situation with you useless trolls, is not worth wasting time rehashing the evidence.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Not an answer. Sorry. Total FAIL.

          • Russell Byrd

            Thanks for confirming my post with your lack of an on-topic reply.

          • Budjob

            Miguel,The republicans are a coalition of the heartless,the clueless,and the very confused!

          • mike

            Can’t refute the facts!!! Funny!!!

          • Russell Byrd

            You conveniently forget that the Teapubs are nearing single digits in popularity. Why don’t you do a quality “selfie” by spending a few intimate minutes getting acquainted with the business end of a .45. . . .

      • FT66

        Am sorry and sad at the same time to let you know Mike, it is not only the White House which only rules the country. The White House can govern as it is required and as it wishes, but without support from the other two government branches, it will always fail.These three, the White House, Two Chambers of the House and the last one,Judiciary, if all of them don’t see eye to eye or show a sign of cooperation, the country will always be at a standstill and nothing will ever be done.

        • mike

          White House sets Tone and Agenda which has been lacking these last 5 years. His way or the highway.

          In Obama’s world the White House should Rule alone. LOL!!!
          Obama’s SIGNATURE LAW IS NOW A COMPLETE DEBACLE FOR WHICH ONLY HE IS TO BLAME. HE HIRED THESE PEOPLE AND THEY ARE A BUNCH OF BOOBS, BORES AND DEFINITELY AMATEURS, AS IS HE.

          • FT66

            Mike, is ACA/Obamacare the only issue in your mind, the White House should only deal with in order to govern the country efficiently. If you are living in Mars, the rest of us (the majority), are living on Earth.

          • mike

            Earth/USA will look like Mars after Obamacare. Not only issue but main issue that shows the incompetency of this administration. Keep ignoring the debacle of Obamacare, perfect example of inefficiency. How many have really signed up for Obamacare?? How many have lost their coverage?? Tell them how efficient this govt. is.

          • FT66

            How many have gained access to Healthcare for their first time ever since they were born? Those who are losing their Healthcare, they do not qualify for what they have been receiving or want to continue to have. Can I qualify to do any surgery (if am a doctor), or continue to fly an aeroplane/car if the qualification I possess, doesn’t meet the requirement needed? Of course not.

          • mike

            How many were denied medical treatment during that time? The system needs changing but not at the expense of the economy or the 85% who have coverage and basically satisfied with it.

            Obama’s changed the whole system for the 15% without coverage but still leaves another 30 million without coverage by 2022(8% of legal residents). Inferior coverage will be the norm going forward. 90K fewer doctors, more expensive but less service.

          • Independent1

            Absolute, unadulterated garbage – that’s all you know how to spout. You have absolutely no studies to back up your ridiculous claims which are in total contradiction to what the CBO has published and several other non partisan organizations that have studied ACA going forward. You’re just making things up!!! Go fly a kite somewhere!! That’s about all you’re good for!!! You’re outright crap isn’t even worth rebutting from here on!!

          • angelsinca

            When yuo wear the hat of the independent, you seem logical and reasonable. Lately, your arguments have de-evolved into personal insult and mockery. At this point, Mike’s presentation seems more plausible and closer to the truth than the Obama-is-a-shining-star position you can’t seem to step away from.

          • Independent1

            1st of all, we’re not talking about Obama, we’re talking about Obamacare. Healthcare legislation that was actually crafted by the GOP and which was voted into law by not only Democrats but also Republicans after the GOP added 189 amendments and virtually got their way to defer the full implementation into 2014. And because the law may somehow shine a positive light on someone other than a Republican, the GOP has suddenly decided to do everything in it’s power to trash it, including pretending that they never had a hand in the legislation, and that all of a sudden, just because Obama went along with it and signed it, even though it wasn’t exactly what he wanted – suddenly ACA is something that Mike and You and all you other disingenuous trolls on the NM want to go out of your way trashing our president over. Well as far as I’m concerned, that makes you clowns total garbage.

            Getting on the NM and trashing someone who is honestly working to do something to better the lot of Americans, and the current healthcare in America is a total travesty – is the height of hypocrisy and makes you trolls nothing better than scumsville in my mind. No matter how often or how hard posters on the NM prove your assertions total nonsense, you just come back with more total nonsense and lies. And to be quite honest, I’ve had it up to my ears and I’m really tired of it – and that’s why you’re getting called names – BECAUSE THEY FIT!!!!

          • angelsinca

            I1, the sentiments I have against the ACA are not sudden. It seemed obvious to me in the beginning that this was a bad idea. Apparently the polls not only suggest I was right about the scheme, they are screaming it. Check the prior logs. Oh yeah, calm down. You don’t wear anger very well.

          • Russell Byrd

            Yeah, you KNEW the day Obama was elected that the ACA was bad. RIGHT? I think you are the one that needs to calm down. Psychologically, you would not need to keep bringing that up if you were not trying to veil your own evil hatred for the truth.

            The polls are skewed by several hundreds of millions of dollars of negative misinformation paid for by scum like the Kock brothers.

          • angelsinca

            Ignore Russell Byrd.

          • Russell Byrd

            But you cannot follow your own advice! Are you another mental case like Mikey-Trikey?

            You certainly are a LIAR and a sociopath.

          • Russell Byrd

            THEN ALL OUR PROBLEMS WOULD BE SOLVED. I would rebut your filthy bullying and LIES, and then we would have silence! No need for further arguments and controversies, no need for reposts!

            I wholeheartedly agree!

          • angelsinca

            The reason I like your posts Russell is that whenever I see you name in the header, I can just skip it, making room for useful pursuits. Have a good day.

          • Russell Byrd

            Still LYING I see. You cannot resist filling my inbox with inane BS. PROVED! That is what you did right now by posting to a thread that was almost totally dead . . . when we were having a discussion. BUT days later? That is the behavior of a intensely driven IDIOT.

            You’re an idiot savant . . . that is way short on the savant.

          • Russell Byrd

            Once again:

            THEN ALL OUR PROBLEMS WOULD BE
            SOLVED. I would rebut your filthy bullying and LIES, and then we would have peace! We would not have need for further arguments and controversies, and no need
            for reposts!

            I wholeheartedly agree!

          • Russell Byrd

            By the way, FLAGGED!

          • Russell Byrd

            Obviously, YOU HAVE NO USEFUL PURSUITS! ROTFL! :-)

          • Russell Byrd

            BUT YOU CAN’T DO IT, CAN YOU, LIAR!

          • mike

            Angelsinca, don’t worry about Russel and his warped opinions. I made a remark about the Life of Julia and this guy in his post shot back “The life of Julia by the Obama campaign was a Spoof On Women”. It was only after several post that he finally admitted he had never heard of it and was just shooting back at me because of his superior intellect. He never looked it up but was positive he was right. This is his process of thinking-shoot from the hip. Sadly, one of those LOW INFO PEOPLE. I chuckle every time he posts knowing he is defunct of knowledge or reason. I take his post with a grain of salt.

          • Russell Byrd

            Still LYING. . . .

            For the record, it was firmly established that I was just playing a cruel prank to see exactly how ballistic you would become. You “lost it” as I expected. All you are doing is trying to spin your lack of composure and good sense into a great victory.

            An even remotely normal person would be thankful that the passage of time would tend to make people forget the incident. But NO, not our little mental midget and resident LIAR, Mikey Bikey.

            By the way, you are the one that “accused” me of having a higher intellect. Of course, you were right, but it is no complement to me to be compared to an intellectual runt like you.

          • mike

            Still laughing at you!!! You wish I would forget how ignorant your comment was. It just reminds me how little depth you have.
            Oh one of little credibiilty.

            Lousy excuse for a human being you are.

          • Russell Byrd

            The difference is, Mikey-Trikey, a can stand up in the court of public opinion and repeat what I say to a reasonable audience. You just hide in anonymity in mama’s basement.

            As a TROLL, you are not even human at all. . . .

            Keep laughing . . . everyone that matters knows the truth.

          • angelsinca

            Like a yelping jackal that warns gazelles that a big cat is nearby, Byrd yaps the exact same cries whenever a conservative enters his domain. Very territorial and intolerant, he usually resorts to verbal abuse with intent to harm. Surprised the moderators haven’t shut down his account. Not a good one to be around.

          • Russell Byrd

            Flagged. You should look in the mirror. When you learn to treat people with respect, then you will be treated with respect. You hate me because I am better at this and I am tired of cutting you slack.

            No one has threatened you with harm. As well, you post as you do, for no other reason, than you are certain you are anonymous. You know, at least believe, we cannot hurt you.

            AND, you have threatened me more than a few times. Implied, and VERY directly as well. Of course, I know you are too much of a coward to even venture out of your basement, cell, padded room, etc. Yet, you hate me because I return your trolling in kind, with interest.

            The point is simple. When your ilk is gone, peace will prevail. Not a perfect peace, because people tend to get in heated discussion, but enough peace to return the blog to stability and attract posters.

          • Russell Byrd

            It is sad. The only discernible difference in our politics, emotional and mental makeup, and posting techniques, etc., is I am honest and you are NOT!

            For instance, unlike yourself, I will not insult you with your “plausibly deniable” closing of “have a good day,” when I do not mean it. No, I will just tell you to choke on your double helping of roadkill you are going to scarf down for Christmas.

          • mike

            Crafting and actually voting and implementing a bill are quite different. This was a Democratic Bill not Republican.

            Yes, Senate republicans did propose amendments some substantive and many technical amendments but in the end it went out of Health, education, Labor, Pensions Committee on a Party Vote 13-10.(Slate) As the House Rules Committee and Budget Committee, no less than 100 amendments were submitted but very few ever got pasted reconciliation(house.gov).

            It starting to look like they were right all along about ACA.

            As to a bipartisan vote for Obamacare, do you really want to say that Republicans voted for it???? If so you are the biggest dunce ever. NOT ONE REPUBLICAN VOTED FOR THE ACA!!!!

            As to trashing the President; 43% approval rating and a 57% disapproval. At this exact same time Bush 43 was at 47% approval. To date Obama has worst approval rating of any 2 term president(other than Nixon). Check the Polls.

            ACA is the travesty!!! Larger number of people losing Health insurance than those signing up and making a first payment. Premiums higher, Out of Pocket greater. Everything said about Keep Your Insurance, Keeping your Doctor a lie.

            If these facts had been available before the 2012 election I don’t think he would have been reelected. Independents approval is down to 31%. Harvard Kennedy school of govt. national survery shows that the 47% of 18-25 would have Obama recalled. Without the young and Independents he would not have won.

            Continue to live in your fantasy world. No nonsense or lies here. Just the facts which your ignorant and delusional world can’t handle.

          • Independent1

            I’m only going to respond to your 1st lie – the crafting of Obamacare was a bi-partisan effort based on a model put forth by a Republican think tank. Here’s this:

            After his inauguration, Obama announced to a joint session of Congress in February 2009 his intent to work with Congress to construct a plan for healthcare reform.[69][70] By July, a series of bills were approved by committees within the House of Representatives.[71] On the Senate side, from June to September, the Senate Finance Committee held a series of 31 meetings to develop a healthcare reform bill. This group — in particular, Democrats Max Baucus, Jeff Bingaman, and Kent Conrad, and Republicans Mike Enzi, Chuck Grassley, andOlympia Snowe — met for more than 60 hours, and the principles that they discussed, in conjunction with the other committees, became the foundation of the Senate’s healthcare reform bill.[72][73][74]

            And even before that, a quite similar bill had been presented by a Republican and a Democrat in 2007:

            In 2007, a year after the Massachusetts reform, Republican Senator Bob Bennett and Democratic Senator Ron Wyden introduced the Healthy Americans Act, which also featured an individual mandate and state-based regulated insurance markets called “State Health Help Agencies”.[52][62] The bill initially attracted bipartisan support but died in committee. Many of the sponsors and co-sponsors remained in Congress during the 2008 healthcare debate.[63]

            It died in committee most likely because it was coming up to the 2008 election and Republicans probably thought it would be best for them to be the pushers of the bill should a Republican be elected president in 2008.

            And even though the GOP had agreed that a mandate was necessary, it was the GOP’s glorious fake Senator McConnell who really decided that the GOP couldn’t back the bill:

            However, following the adoption of an individual mandate as a central component of the proposed reforms by Democrats, Republicans began to oppose the mandate and threatened to filibuster any bills that contained it.[49] Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell, who led the Republican congressional strategy in responding to the bill, calculated that Republicans should not support the bill, and worked to keep party discipline and prevent defections:[79]

          • mike

            Appreciate the attempt to be an Historian, but as you like to say “no cigar”.

            The Heritage Foundations was not the first to consider exchanges, a professor Enthoven from Stanford years before had the idea of exchanges. The Heritage exchange approach was using market based(insurance across state lines) exchanges to help families to CHOOSE their insurance. Obamacare by contrast, is a vehicle to introduce sweeping regulations and federal standardizations on health insurance and FORCING all to buy health insurance. Obamacare is the Redistribution of Wealth, Plain and Simple.

            As to my 1st so called lie you claim-Horse manure. Your denial is growing as is your nose.

            So ACA was voted into law by both Democrats and Republicans, Right? Show me the proof it was a bipartisan vote, a vote making it the law. You can’t!!! Pathetic on your part to be so “INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST.”

            It was voted down because it was a bad bill. Nothing more, Nothing less. Every day it becomes more evident that the ACA is a complete debacle.

            As to the rest of my earlier post, you won’t/can’t comment on WITHOUT LOOKING MORE RIDICULOUS.

          • Independent1

            Not only did the Republicans have equal say in creating the bill, when it came time to vote on it, they proposed almost 300 amendments, 189 of which the Dems agreed to in order to try and get Republican votes on the bill.

            Unfortunately, despite having participated in crafting ACA and getting 189 amendments included in the bill, because fake
            senator McConnell had decided that supporting the bill was not in the best interests of the GOP (irregardless of the benefits to American citizens), he insisted every Republican had to vote against it to ensure that if it couldn’t possibly become a success that would make anything Obama pushed for look good (Remember, that Mitch edicted when Obama w
            as elected that the GOP’s #1 priority was to make him a 1 term president. Forget about doing what’s right for the country, just focus on making Obama a 1 term president – wow!! That really sounds like something a real politician would say??? NOT!!!! McConnell is the biggest fake Senator ever!!!)

            So when it came time to vote on the bill every Republican voted against it. And why? Because like good sheeple, all Republicans do like they’re told just like Alice’s little lambs herded by fake senator McConnell:

            McConnell, who led the Republican congressional strategy in responding to the bill, calculated that Republicans should not support the bill, and worked to keep party discipline and prevent defections:[79]

          • mike

            Still having trouble finding the voting results showing it was voted on by both parties.

            It is the law no doubt about, voted in by one party, not read by any of those who voted for it. It is terribly flawed, expensive and has the Democratic Party reeling.

            If you have any intellectual honesty in your body you will go read Federal Register 2010, where you will find Obama Officials deeply involved in ACA saying up to 93 million would lose their insurance. 66% from small employers, 41% from large employers, rise in premiums, etc.. ALL THIS KNOWN BY OBAMA BUT IGNORED TO WIN ELECTION.

            Obama is a liar, continues to lie and you will continue to back his lies, which makes you as big a BUFFOON AS HE. THE COUNTRY KNOWS HE LIES, MAJORITY OF AMERICANS NO LONGER TRUST HIM.

            You continue to lose all creditability with the pathetic stances on ACA, facts(other issues also) that can be verified but you did not look up to try and refute and went the lazy way and just said they were “lies”, this truly shows you as a dishonest person.

          • Independent1

            By the way, I just came across an article on an investment website that you’re not going to like – even healthcare organizations are starting to see the positives in Obamacre and will be actively advertising their Obamacare policies in a very positive way.

            See this:

            Perhaps the biggest positive news for Obamacare stems from the big money flowing into advertising. According to The Wall Street Journal, WellPoint (NYSE: WLP ) is planning to spend as much as $100 million on advertising — by the the end of the year.

            Health Care Service Corporation, which owns Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans in Illinois, Montana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas, is also gearing up an advertising blitz for its Obamacare plans. The nation’s fourth-largest health insurer is targeting billboards, direct mail, Internet, radio, and television channels to get the word out.

            If things weren’t getting better for Obamacare, these and other insurers wouldn’t be so eager to shell out the big bucks on marketing. Money talks — and it seems to be saying that things are looking better than they have in a while for health reform.

          • mike

            Yawning!!! Hell, it should be getting better after a complete failure and after close to a 500 million dollars. Tech people are saying it could have been done for about 57million.

            It is called “competition” and was suppose to start on Oct 1st. This sure doesn’t mean it will work or that it will change the minds of all those who know that it is a “Train Wreck”. Still doesn’t change higher premiums, high cost out of pocket, etc..Just remember only 10% of 18-25 saying they will purchase.(Harvard).

            And, that Obama lied, lied, lied. Period.

            Keep dreaming doofus!!!

          • Independent1

            I’m having trouble finding costs associated with the roll-out of Medicare Part D, but I did find some info on Politifacts which says that the problems incurred with Part D and Obamacare are very similar.

            Starting Politifacts research on the two rollouts:

            Let’s play a quick game: who made this statement?

            “This is a huge undertaking and there are going to be glitches. My goal is the same as yours: Get rid of the glitches.”

            A Democrat in 2013? Wrong! Actually, it was Rep. Joe Barton, a Texas Republican who chaired the House Energy and Commerce Committee, about Medicare Part D in 2006.

            The similarities between the two health care programs, both heralded as the signature domestic achievements of the presidents who signed them into law, are at times eerie. Supporters of the laws asked for time and promised a quick fix. Critics did not mince their words. Even the lingo — words like “glitches” — has been recycled.

            And this:

            The Medicare site, meant to help seniors pick benefit plans, was supposed to debut Oct. 13, 2005, but it didn’t go live until weeks later in November. Even then, “the tool itself appeared to be in need of fixing,” the Washington Post reported at the time.

            “Visitors to the site could not access it for most of the first two hours. When it finally did come up around 5 p.m., it operated awfully slowly,” the Post reported. (Sensing a pattern?)

            Notice here that in comparing the two rollouts, that one of the reviewers makes it clear that Obamacare as a ‘far larger and daunting task”,

            “There’s really a striking amount of similarity even though this time it’s a far larger and daunting task. It’s a fair comparison,” said Jack Hoadley at the Georgetown University’s Health Policy Institute and one of the authors of the study. “Once something works its way through the problems, you forget the problems.”

            And here’s the final assessment of their review:

            Israel said, “Things went wrong with the Medicare prescription D plan that George Bush rolled out.” There definitely were problems, and in some cases, the parallels between the prescription benefit program’s introduction and the Obamacare marketplaces are strikingly similar. While we also found some serious differences in the laws, we can’t find fault with Israel’s fairly general statement.

            We rate his statement True.

          • mike

            Only in your little brain would your long writing be germane to all the pathetic comments and positions you made previously.

            You want to equate the disaster of Obamacare to Bush’s roll out. It has to be the most fallacious argument ever. No comparison!! You truly are pathetic.

            Part D did not take their insurance away, raise their premiums, raise their out of pocket, lose their doctor or hospital, pile on regulations, new taxes. I have trouble with it was on how it was paid for.

            I guess you really are a doofus.

          • Independent1

            Talk about doofuses!! I’ll leave that to other posters on the NM to decide. For you to brush off the comparison of the Part D rollout fiasco which was actually worse than Obamacare because it didn’t get working correctly for more than 5 months – is an indication of just who’s the doofus!!!

          • mike

            Maybe by the numbers your brain will start understanding.
            1. Part D was originally for about 11 million people, In 2008 it had 28 million, No one lost their coverage.
            2. Obamacare was designed as Redistribution of Wealth that included 100% of the people. A takeover of 1/6th of the economy. New regulations and taxes.
            3. One program that covers approximately 10% of the population and another that covers 100%.
            4. Obamacare canceled/is canceling existing policies, increasing cost of premiums, increasing out of pocket expenses, losing their doctors they like, losing their hospitals they like, no choice, higher taxes, etc.. There are many more problems with Obamacare that i could cite.
            5. A website that has no security of information, doesn’t work, data missing on some of the people who have tried to sign up. Those signing up are mostly Medicaid-none paying customers.
            6. Obama won’t give numbers who have actually signed up and made a payment.
            You are still a doofus if you can’t grasp this simple outline of information. All true and accurate. Any idiot can google this even you.

          • Independent1

            And the cluelessness/lies goes on:

            #1) Pure BS – seniors coverage wasn’t cancelled but for hundreds of thousands on the initial rollout it was never started when it was suppose to be the system kept rejecting their applications: leaving hundreds of thousands of seniors holding the bag for prescription charges THEY COULDN’T AFFORD TO PAY.

            So Guess what?? Almost 2 dozen states had to come to the rescue of Bush’s fiasco and agree to cover the costs of seniors medicare – some of them for up to 3 months because the system didn’t get working correctly. Even though the system required for the Medicare Part D was like a cakewalk compared to Obamacare (I’m a 30 year Aetna retiree who spent 30 years working on healthcare systems); and considering how easy the Medicare Part D rollout should have been, it was a nightmare compared to Obamacare. Here’s some background news on that:

            January 18, 2006

            President Bush’s top health advisers will fan out across the country this week to quell rising discontent with a new Medicare prescription drug benefit that has tens of thousands of elderly and disabled Americans, their pharmacists, and governors struggling to resolve myriad start-up problems.

            Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt, who will visit Oregon and California, said yesterday that 24 million Medicare beneficiaries now have prescription coverage, compared with the 20.4 million who had been receiving drug benefits last year through state- or employer-sponsored plans. That means the new program, expected to cost $700 billion in the first 10 years, is providing drug coverage to 3.6 million new retirees….

            Even as federal leaders touted the enrollment figures, state officials and health care experts continued to report widespread difficulties, especially for the poorest and sickest seniors who were forced to switch from state Medicaid programs to the new Medicare plans on Jan. 1. Nearly two dozen states have intervened, saying they will pay for medications for any low-income senior who is mistakenly rejected. The District, Maryland and Virginia have not intervened.

            (I could post you 1/2 a dozen opinions from different researchers who stated the you can’t even compare the degree of complexity between the two rollouts Obamacare was so much more complex.)

            And just for your information, the Medicare Part D benefit was disliked far more by Americans than Obamacare – only 21% of Americans viewed the benefit as favorable with 43% against it just before roll out.

            2) More BS: Obamacare has no more to do with wealth distribution than Medicare does – the premiums people pay for Medicare don’t come anywhere need to covering the costs. And the CBO is now projecting that it will reduce the deficits by over 300 Billion over the next ten years actually saving money.

            3) You’re way off base here too. Obamacare covers only those who don’t already have insurance which is approximately 40 million which is about the same number of seniors right now in America. Where are you getting the 100%?? You don’t even understand what ACA is all about.

            4) I’m not even going to address this because your whole statement is a pack of blatant lies.

            5) What does this have to do with anything. What you’re listing are probably all the intentional flaws the right-wing biased programmers of the Texas company that did the original coding purposely created to screw up the rollout.

            6) Only the insurance companies know just how many applications have been successful and it’s not Obama’s fault that they’re not providing the data to the Whitehouse on a timely fashion. I’m pretty sure a requirement for them to do that IS NOT part of the ACA legislation.

            Take all your clueless comments and grow up. You’re about the most ignorant poster on the NM.

          • mike

            1. I bet a ten year old has better comprehension than you.
            2.Gee, the New York Times on November 23 said”redistritbution has always been a central feature of ACA and lies at the heart of the market disruption”. ACA is taking from one group and giving to another: Rich to Poor, Men to Women, Young to Old, Healthy to Unhealthy.
            3. The insurance policies of every American now has to meet the standards and regs of ACA. That my friend is 100% of Americans. Don’t forget the IPAB.
            4.Your are really delusional if you think this is not happening right now. Go look up the number of people who have received cancilation letters from their carriers or those who have been able to look at the different plans of ACA and find their premiums have jumped dramatically and their out of pocket expenses have doubled. You really do live in a cave.
            5. Your lack of what is happening with ACA is astounding. Even Sibelius(you know who she is) admits the security of information and available pay was never in place. It has been a hackers delight.
            6. Now you are making me laugh. The website is run by the Obama admin., that is why it is called HEALTHCARE.GOV. They know DAILY THE NUMBERS AND HOW they stand and don’t want to have more egg on their face AGAIN. My God you are so naive or in deep denial.

            No, I am probably one of the few who actually knows what is going on with ACA.

          • Independent1

            You really think anyone with an ounce of common sense cares what the NY Times wants to call something. ACA IS NOT A REDISTRIBUTION OF ANYTHING!! It’s an ENORMOUS IMPROVEMENT OVER A FAILED HEALTHCARE SYSTEM!!

            And existing policies are grandfathered in and only have to conform to ACA when they renew. And so now you want to Carp about legislation that is intent on keeping healthcare insurers from their continued scamming of America’s?? You really are a LOWLIFE aren’t you!!!!

            I’m done trying to reason with a completely clueless idiot!!!!

          • mike

            Your ignorance again is appalling. What your progressive sites won’t tell you is that in the law if changes were/are made after March 2010 passage then they are no longer grandfathered. Any change in benefits and out of pocket will terminate the policies.Your Messiah never mentioned that fact in any of his statements about “keeping your insurance”. Also, they had to add some very specific additions. Grandfathered policies have dropped from about 58% down into the mid-thirties and will continue to drop as the cost keep growing.
            Do what you want but I will continue to prove you wrong as I have so far. Remember you have not proven my information has been incorrect.

          • Russell Byrd

            What tech people Trikey? Oh, those little evil beasties that whisper this shit into your ear. Right? Right!

          • mike

            Will Julia just google “three guys build working Obamacare site in days” for a starter. Get a lesson! Your smugness is so unbecoming since you don’t have a leg to stand on or a reason to be smug.
            I see your demons are still whispering in your ears and making you look ridiculous again with your banal comment.

          • Russell Byrd

            Trikey, we have been over this so many times before. So if I can find a website that says Paul Ryan can land a man on the Moon with an overhand throw. So fucking what!

            I can make a webpage (seriously) that says two quadriplegic dwarfs could make a website. So what.

            And do you ever have an original thought? Besides the pap you get from sucking the hind tit of some Returd-Teatard talking head, you have to steal my ideas in order to make a reply.

          • mike

            Just like your Julia comment, you don’t even know what you are talking about. Pathetic

            Your ignorance and denial are breathtaking!!! The three guys were covered by EVERY news outlet. Not made up just a simple fact. They did it on their own time and within days made a working website for Obamacare.

          • Russell Byrd

            Thanks for confirming the my above post. As for news coverage you should have said: Every Breitfart, New York Pap, and Fake Noise outlet covered the “three guys.” I watch and read and listen to a number of outlets, and I have heard nothing of what you claim.

            As I always ask at some point in our discussions. What are you trying to prove with all the LIES? No one with any sense here, in other words, the disruptors like you, believes ANYTHING you say. You are just wasting your time.

            Of course, as a troll, you think you are doing battle as a white knight against a dragon. Unfortunately, I must inform you, a LYING turd will never be a white knight. So face it, this is not medieval combat, but a case of the “Progresssive” cleaning crew taking out a little cold turd to the trash.

            Sorry, if you cannot get that.

          • mike

            What a surprise that you have never heard of the 3 guys. What you watch and listen to would never acknowledge the success of 3 guys making the Obama administration look so BAD. This coders did in days and with hardly spending a dollar.

            More lies from lie meister Russell-if you had googled 3 guys and obamacare, you would have found Breitbart, CNN,CBS, NBC, ETC..

            What you can’t get is you are the foolish one. I keep noticing no other NM poster has made any attempt to back you up. Same as last time with Julia, they knew you had made an ass of yourself. I have known you to be an ignorant nut case with nothing but expletives leaving your mouth. No substance and credibility. So sad!!!!

            You still and always will be a LOUSY EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING.

          • Russell Byrd

            No use in repeating the TRUTH, is there. You never hear. Not because you can’t, but you came here not to HEAR. You only came to be a disruptive, LYING bully. Like I said, I do not listen to the idiots at Breitfart. NBC is pretty much a right-wing rag too. I do not care for LIARS and purveyors of misinformation, like you do.

            Actually, Independent1 has engaged you at length earlier in the day. I also noticed when I challenged you on your earlier FALSE allegations, YOU SUDDENLY DROPPED THE MATTER. I also noticed that NO dip-shit right-wing teaturd creep has backed you up AT ALL

            Talking about a no-information, no-credibility, hypocritical LIAR. YOU take the Academy Award, sh*thead.

            Oh, I guess you are talking about “Three Guys Pizza” in D.C.. Maybe, you should order an extra-large. Unfortunately, they do not sell any with common decency, honesty, and intelligence. So, I guess you will just go a-wanting.

          • mike

            Show me where I dropped the so called allegations, Which one did I drop??? Come on, name a specific comment you challenged me on and I didn’t respond, be specific,
            Another post from you and sadly one can only call a deranged individual who loves to ramble about nothing.
            No surprise here that you can’t even google “three guys and obamacare”.

          • Russell Byrd

            YOU find out dickhead. I grew tired of doing your work for you long, long ago. That is another cause for your hatred. I don’t run in circles for your LYING, cowardly ass.

            WHAT SAY YE about my comments on your defaming your own son’s name. If it were me, and it were the truth, I would be livid. Yet, the are just going to bide the time until you need an extra special LIE to tell.

            Do your own work for once. Read back to where you began these futile LIES and find out what you said AND my challenge. You have never once in my memory ever answered a direct question. You act like nothing has ever been said.

            Or is it, you are too stupid and too much of a dedicated, pathological LIAR? Or is it, you do not even read the replies?
            I can answer your question AND I did answer. You just do not comprehend.

            How about no one backing me up? I win on that one again. Just like I always have. Probably several hundred times by now. YOU just cannot get that no one is here. You are wasting your time posting to dead air and only one person that will always dispute and refute all you say.

            AND I am honest about it. At some point, I tell you every time. Yet, you are too much of a mental midget and psychologically damaged to realize that you are getting no where.

            Who do you think is really laughing here? I can string you along just like i did with Julia. You are an easy fish to reel in. You literally jump into the boat. That is one of the reasons I stopped playing. You are so easy you are not really any fun. Of course, I do miss disabusing you over your LIES.

            As I said, I am here to “DESTROY YOUR JOY.” Which obviously I have succeeded in in spades. . . .

          • mike

            I see you continue the rambling from your sick and demented mind.
            If I was wrong in my comments other NM would be all over me and they are not. They relish piling on but they are no where to be found because my post are right on.
            It sure isn’t you being so good. You say nothing specific just ramble about nothing.

            Julia destroyed your credibility> LOL!!!

          • Russell Byrd

            You have no credibility. As it appears that only one of us is coherent, I must remind you that there is no one here. You are showing your ass to no one besides me. And you are wasting your time with me.

            You will certainly get your ass busted later for stirring up the blog again with your LIES. You are like death and taxes. You are inevitable.

            Mikey-Trikey = delusional loser.

            For the thousandth time (near literally), what are you actually accomplishing with all the LIES and bluster? Impress me? Convince me?

            My, my. You prove my points about your personality everytime. In spades.

          • mike

            Julia is a spoof on women by Obama, your words not mine. LOL!!!
            Still laughing at the idiot you are. Cracking me with your lack of depth and understanding of the issues. Still laughing.
            I have given you factual evidence and your only response each time-your lying. Nothing back showing the fallacy of my comments other emotional crap. No rebuttal from you with substantive facts-just diarrhea of the mouth and brain.
            The moment your fingers hit the keyboard your ignorance comes forth. Sad. Pathetic.
            Still laughing!!! HO! Ho! Ho! You are hilarious!!! On the floor laughing.

          • Russell Byrd

            No, not my words, just your lying spin on them. “Julia” was just a case of me telling you an incredible spin on the truth that probably an eight year old would have seen through. However, you proved one of my points about you. You are always in such a fixated, foaming at the mouth hurry to disagree, bully, and disrupt, you never bothered to use even a modicum of common sense and detect the spoof.

            So spin away. When people laugh at you for being so stupid, i.e. for not only mindlessly getting spoofed, but spreading the story on yourself, do not think I won’t be rolling on the floor laughing.

            STOOOOOPID!

          • Russell Byrd

            “Julia” destroyed your credibility, but you are too stupid to keep mum about it. Obviously, in your mental delusions and paranoid fixations, you have a pathological need to spin the events in your favor. Please continue to do so. If I am ever asked about what you are ranting about, I will give a concise, and rather hilarious, explanation of your stupidity.

            Please keep calling attention to yourself.

            By the way, what ever happened to those lies about your son. In a way, I really am sorry, because, unlike yourself, I have a conscience. You may very well have lost a son. Yet, you are not above defaming your own, if it will further another LIE. We both know that your story is mostly fabricated, if not entirely so. Of course, maybe I shamed you a bit by pointing out the OBVIOUS and PROVABLE LIE you told about not blaming Obama.

            You have been blaming Obama for everything you can think of. And you claim I am irrational.

            Again, continue. You are a hoot.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Thanks for proving my point in spades. DID YOU READ THE ARTICLE. This site just offers information, nothing more. I could probably do it myself in a week or two. DUH!

          • Russell Byrd

            Now we see why you are such a doofus. You really are not capable of making reasonable judgments. I am glad these guys did this, but obviously, it is not the same thing.

            All they are doing is disseminating information. Which is very valuable. Yet, the ACA site for all its admitted faults, is geared to actually sign someone up. That is the intended purpose of having people go there.

            As well, your “three guys” already had the data set up by the government contractors. It probably would take those three MANY years to do all that themselves. Ten? Fifteen? That kind of data is drudgery to get through. I know, I do that.

            Therefore, this is just another story being spun into a misinformation blurb. Useless as proof of anything.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Tables have turned. Please keep doing all the leg work. It is about time.

            I have given attention to eight of your links. They are all insignificant, off-topic, biased, or just down-right lies. I will not bother further with these useless time wasters. I can get a lot more done by adopting your modus operandi as my own. :-)

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Assumed to be more biased, misinterpreted trash due to the source, i.e. not USA Today, but “Mikey-Trikey.” Please keep weaving.

          • Russell Byrd

            You are half of an idiot-savant. Guess which half?

          • Russell Byrd

            Another tacit confirmation of the truth by Mikey-Bikey. There may be hope yet.

          • Guest

            My comment

          • Russell Byrd

            Why don’t you show a little honesty . . . for once. Even better, why don’t you actually take a hint and use your own brain. Rather than sucking down that high-priced propaganda pablum.

            The tragedy is, after all your trolling, racism, bigotry, homophobia, lying, bullying, and disruption is factored out, I doubt you are financially fit to join the Plutocrat’s elite. In other words, you are on the hook for a good reaming just like the rest of us.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            It is certain that the links are not pertinent or a proper reply, therefore, dealt with in the manner of the current policy.

          • Russell Byrd

            Why don’t you use your own brain. Oh, that’s right, FAIL.

          • Russell Byrd

            A school that caters to the upper crust and has a net worth of probably over a hundred billion would not be much evidence of problems with the ACA. In fact, they are part of the problem to be solved. Only the brainy POOR kids on scholarships would want to buy into the ACA, anyway. The net worth of the average Harvard grad is about $30M. That 90% of the kids that don’t buy do not even NEED ANY INSURANCE when you consider.

            “And, that mike lied, lied, lied. Period.” Thanks for the blurb, Mikey-Trikey. Your better get back to Lakeshore. That is, if you are not already there.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            I did a quality spot check on that link. As I suspected, article is totally biased for purely political reasons. As it came from “politico” a scholarly, or rather, intelligent, fair mind would have expected this and avoided such an article.

            As well, the article is in no way, shape, or form a reply to what I have posted. Off-topic trolling by Mikey-Bikey, as expected.

          • Russell Byrd

            Get on back to the Lakeshore.

            RootieTootToot, RootieTootToot, we’re the boys from the institute, Lakershore, Lakeshore, Go-Go-Go!

          • Russell Byrd

            Pure LIES. For instance, Repubs never proposed anything except stopping the ACA and “repealing” Obama. They had, and still have, no intention of governing for anyone except the richest of the land. The rest of us are just here to pay the bills and wipe their asses. . . .

            And again, you forget that the Returd party is the least approved institution of ALL TIME. ‘Nuff said.

          • mike

            How’s Julia???

          • Russell Byrd

            For the record. You will get nowhere calling me Julia. We both know it has no standing. But have at if that is the best your lame dick butt can do.

            We both know why I call you Bikey or Trikey. That was your own boasting self that earned that moniker.

            But like I said, please continue. I could not care less.

            And Julia is fine. He still dresses in drag and still hangs around your cardboard box home looking for a date.

          • mike

            What I know you continued to make false statements about a subject you admitted you knew nothing about which makes any future comments you give ZERO creditability.

          • Russell Byrd

            What I said is still completely true regardless of the continued campaign of LIES you are fixated on.

            By the way, what was that subject?

            If I DID admit that I did not know about a subject, but had an uniformed opinion, then that still would not be lying, STUPID!
            Which I greatly doubt anyway.

            Consider, you LIE, often repeatedly, on just about every post you make. Why should we even listen to you? I am just here to “destroy your joy.” I, and everyone here, can safely assume that whatever you say, the OPPOSITE is true. That is, if what you have to say is even in the same universe.

            Maybe, I will just call you “chicken shit little.” I bet you won’t get that either.

          • Russell Byrd

            Actually, you have always practiced exactly what you are accusing Independent1 of. You just keep poring out a stream of unwelcome lies until people lose their composure and call you what you really are. No amount of reasoning or truth will ever get through to you, because a conversation is not why you have come.

            You come only to disrupt. You do so as the pure yellow-bellied coward that you are, because you feel omnipotent in your hidden cesspool. You smugly feel you are a “culture warrior” that is doing battle with your inferiors. In your mind you are a great hero. Yet, lies and veiled hatred will never win any battles. Sorry about your rotten luck there, for you are only deluding yourself.

            I’m really surprised you are not in jail with that son of yours . . . where you both belong. :-)

          • mike

            All post can be backed up, Julia. Show post that are untrue!!

            My Army Ranger son is DEAD you lousy excuse for a person.

          • Russell Byrd

            You are truly going out of bounds you fucking LIAR. If your son was even in the Army, if he was a Ranger (not likely if he was related to filth like you), and if he was killed in action, you should be BLAMING Bush, and especially Cheney for starting a war to enrich the already too rich.

            If you cannot handle the truth . . . leave other posters in peace.

          • mike

            Sadly it is the truth, you lousy excuse for a human being.
            Your true character or lack of comes out loud and clear. A person with any class or humanity would have said “I find it hard to believe you but if it is true I am sorry for your lose”.
            Not you, you worthless piece of crap!!!! you knew I had posted it last spring on this site. Go to hell!!!!
            Out of bounds begins and ends with you!!!! You worthless excuse for a human being.

          • Russell Byrd

            So we may infer that I was right and you were just LYING. How disgusting a piece of filth you are.You are mad at me because I will not swallow any more of your sh*t. As always. . . .

            And as always, you never addressed what I said about who was really at fault. You are LYING, racist filth of the lowest order, and now you defame dead Armed Service personnel.

            I DO NOT HAVE WORDS TO DESCRIBE HOW FILTHY AND DISGUSTING A LIAR YOU ARE.

          • mike

            Still no creditability in your posts you worthless excuse for a human.
            At fault for what??? you worthless excuse for a human.
            Speaking of filth look at the reflection on your computer screen.
            You despicable person.

          • Russell Byrd

            Trikey, you cannot accuse someone of having no credibility, when you have none yourself. Add to that, not one bit of opinion or information that contradicts anything I have said and you prove you have no credibility. You do not even have enough pride and courage to even care if you are a disgusting, racist lying pig. If I were you, I would not show my face in public. Oh yeah, you live in mom’s basement and she probably still wipes your *ss.

          • mike

            In your bloated brain you think you have said something pertinent but alas you have said nothing, ergo no credibility.

          • Russell Byrd

            So you are saying that an unreasoned argument from a moron, that being YOU, has credibility and trumps a reasoned one.

            Don’t think for one minute that I care. You cannot get the great “victory” you desire. As I have told you, NO, warned you, I am just here to “destroy your joy.” Every time you post, I WIN! It is not like you have anything to say. Definitely, nothing with any TRUTH.

            And screw your credibility. I bet right now, without consulting a dictionary, you cannot even tell me what that is! Ergo, your ego, like all your kind, tells you that if you can say it, it must be believed, no matter how much you fabricated it. WRONG!!!

          • Russell Byrd

            Once again, I DO NOT HAVE WORDS TO DESCRIBE HOW FILTHY AND DISGUSTING A LIAR YOU ARE

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            I think my previous reply was plainly stated. . . .

          • Russell Byrd

            If you cannot handle the truth . . . leave other posters in peace

          • Russell Byrd

            Answer is required or question will continue to be repeated. Bullshit is over.

            WHY DO YOU HATE THE HUMAN RACE SO BADLY?

          • mike

            Now, Now, my little baby who is incapable of handling the truth. Your lack of knowledge or level of denial is appalling.
            As to the 85%-15% go to .obamacarefacts.com/howdoes-obamacare-work.php, a perfect place to start for a Low Info person as yourself.

            As to the CBO: go read the July 2012 position on the Supreme Court decision by the CBO. Check out pages 18 and 20. Better yet read the damn thing and get your head out of where the sun doesn’t shine.

            90K fewer doctors:Try USA today, October 20, 2012. Where the Association of American Medical Colleges predicts these numbers.

            As to your post I can only say you are a COMPLETE AND UTTER BUFFOON, So Pathetic!!!!

          • Russell Byrd

            Actually Trikey, everything you have said in that post are the problems created by capitalists, insurance companies, and pure greed.

            For instance, why become a doctor? It is incredibly expensive, and the cost of failure is too horrible to contemplate. As well, you have to EARN your money by caring for patients. So much easier to go into banking or investments where you can potentially make a killing by doing almost nothing. That is, besides screwing you fellow citizens.

          • mike

            I won’t dignify your diarrhea of the brain.

          • Russell Byrd

            Another ingenious comment from the resident “SLT.” (Stupid, Lying, Troll)

            If you can’t dignify the truth with a truthful coherent response, then why did you respond. Oh yeah, STUPID is what you do. The only thing you do more of is lie.

            You sorry sack of shit, you cannot play the game unless you are disrupting someone else. When the tables are turned, you go completely limp like the little lame dick that you are. Not one original idea in your head.

          • mike

            Just responding to your lack of ingenuity.

          • angelsinca

            When they resort to name-calling, and they usually do, some sooner than others, it is clear there is no argument.

          • mike

            Amen to that!!! What kills me, I can give them absolute facts and I’m the liar, racist, etc..
            The level of DENIAL is unbelievable and their lack of research is very sad.

            Merry Christmas, I hope you and yours have a wonderful season.

          • angelsinca

            Thank you for the well wishes. Hope you have the same. I am not around here often enough to tell you I’ve got your back. But it is certain you are never alone in your convictions to defend the Republic and preserve conservative principles. They’ve been headed arm-in-arm somewhere for 5 years now and still can’t figure out why the masses aren’t going along with them.

          • Russell Byrd

            Yep, those conservathieves have far too much money to spend propagandizing a gullible public. On the bright side, a large minority, really a “near” majority, have seen through the self-serving tripe and lies.

            Unfortunately, you are not one of them.

            By the way, are you still with one of your wives, or four girlfriends, or are you actually the female that you claimed to be in another post and are just dancing on “the dark side.” I really don’t care about anyone’s orientation. Really, I do not care about anyone’s personal traits, tastes, or habits. I just despise those that routinely lie to make points in discussions!

            Like the taunts about your son. I am a very sympathetic person. Normally, I would be supportive of your situation. BUT, you won’t sympathy all the while you are proposing to impoverish, debase, lie, bully, etc. everyone you come across. Your sorrow goes from one of our empathy and sympathy for you, to one of disgust.

            This is not the first time I have disseminated this truth to you.

          • Russell Byrd

            MIght I suggest, as I am flagging your post, that you defend conservative cruelty, selfishness, and immorality in a totally more suitable and receptive blog.

            This has been the central issue between ALL of us for sometime now.

          • Russell Byrd

            So you once again posted with a “lack of ingenuity.” Don’t think I am surprised. All you post are lies and crap.

          • angelsinca

            Check your stats FT66. That ‘majority’ that voted for Obama is no longer applicable. Most folks have shaken themselves free from the BS promises of hope and change and are realizing the Manchurian candidate is not what he seems to be. You don’t get extra points for ‘believing’ everything is better even as the truth unfolds of the harmful effects of the ACA. Obama’s term will not end without the dollar becoming totally worthless and the national debt totally beyond the point of no return. Raise the debt ceiling, fools. You have no idea.

          • FT66

            It is now one year your Party was beaten to death for the second time in a row and you are still angry? Instead of coming up with new ideas of how to move the country forward, it is all the time recycling issues: Benghazi, Fast & Furious, Obamacare back again on Benghazi, Obamacare and so on and so forth. How does this help anyone in your mind if not utilising the precious time we have in a wrong way?

          • angelsinca

            By ‘beaten to death’, you must mean Obama winning the presidential race twice. It seemed more like a close election than a death match. But, the president still seems compelled to beat up on the 63% ‘half’ of the nation that doesn’t support him.

            I am not affiliated with a Party(sic). It pisses off the Dem canvassers when I won’t declare my vote for their Dem candidates. The Republican callers are much more polite. The independents don’t call.

            Any ‘precious time’ the Dems had (during the supermajority’) was spent devising the increasingly-unpopular ACA. Nice going.

            Today, a Federal judge knocked down more ACA mandates and the senseless arguments supporting them. He also wasn’t too happy about how the WH is issuing selective exemptions that don’t apply to everyone equally. Nice work Team O.

          • Russell Byrd

            Obama won by the same margin as your deity, Raygun. Proven, firm statistic. So skip the 63% nonsense.

            The real problem with polls, especially conservatively biased ones, is they only count the respondents that are willing to participate. They are overwhelmingly Teatards and Returds, because they cannot resist an opportunity to air out their supposed grievances Add to this a propensity for polling upscale neighborhoods, rural areas, and urban (banking, etc.) professional work centers, and you have a recipe for failure that can never be covered by margin of error.

            I mean functional margin of error, not statistical. Of course, you can always calculate margin of error, but it is of little value when your entire data set is skewed off the charts.

          • Russell Byrd

            No, any issue where the little slimy racist can slander and defame the President is fair game. Any fact can be twisted or out-right “Foxified” (made-up) as needed. His is a borderline personality that has spent more than a few days in mental wards.

          • Russell Byrd

            Bullshit, Returds believe the White House should not rule at all. A little thing like a national election should not stand in the way in the ReturdTeatard way of thinking. Just because Obama won by a wide margin (statistically proven and common knowledge), does not mean he is actually entitled to run the government.

            Really, Americans better wake up before their beautiful Democracy disappears into the Koch boys back pocket. They, and their ilk, already own the entire Returd party and half the Democrats as well.

      • Russell Byrd

        Still a damn racist that would trade our entire country to an enemy just so you can blame Obama. Move to North Korea where you would be welcome. You sorry sacks would not understand governing if all our lives depended on it.

        • mike

          Once again, it is Obama’s policies, his incompetence, his constant campaign, his lies, his lack of leadership, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COLOR OF SKIN.
          Look at the polls worse that Bush!!!! LOL People now say he can’t be trusted!!!!

          Obama The Liar of the Year, plus two more. Washington Post
          See you later Julia. Sleep tight and may sugar plums dance in your head or better yet listening to Obama saying “you can keep your doctor, Period!!!!!!!!

          • Russell Byrd

            Trikey, you have been against Obama since before he became President. You have continually told the exact same UNPROVABLE lies that you are still telling. . . .

            By the way, I kept my doctor. Even if I concede that one point, after all the lies Bush, and especially Cheney told, do you think the “you can keep your doctor” is a fitting reply for EVERY topic in these blogs? Why don’t you ever put up or shut up? You never answer a direct question. NEVER. You just a little dumb sore dick. You convince no one of anything, except that we need to make sure we are at the polls to deliver filth like you another beating.

          • mike

            All my statements are PROVABLE, you are just in denial.
            Give me one statement the you think is UNPROVABLE and we will see who is right.

            Ezekiel Emanuel(Rahm’s brother), one of the architects of ACA said it best “if you want to keep your doctor you can pay more” so he knows that doctors are being remove from exchanges.

            I guess the WP should not have called Obama the biggest liar of the year for his remark “you can keep your plan”.
            Now where is Julia???

          • Russell Byrd

            I never said he did not say that, however, you are just driving one little point into the ground to prove an entire fantasy realm of unproven lies. Just about everything you say is a LIE, either by direct manufacture, or by twisting and spinning off-topic and insignificant truths.

            What does Ezekiel Emanuel have to do with this discussion. NOTHING, except it gives you one tiny insignificant fact to spin. I live in the real world sh*thead, you don’t. You are just a stinking turd floating down your deNILE.

            By the way, you have never proven anything. Using LIES to prove LIES “does not compute.” Unlike myself, you cannot even post a coherent spiel. Just rambling accusations and LIES, over and over and over again. You convince no one of anything except that you need to be run off.

            THANKS for good supporting arguments for our Progressive causes. You only attract loonies.

          • mike

            Look at his poll numbers by every major pollsters. The American people no longer TRUST HIM!!! American people are telling him it isn’t a little point. LOL!!!

            You really are a low info person both lazy and stupid. Emanuel is one the Architects of Obamacare and spokesman for ACA. it proves the point that people will continue to lose their doctors which you continue to say won’t happen. If your Doctor is out of network then if you want to keep him you will have to pay more. Do your research you ignoramus it is all out there for you to find. Let me help you little boy-WP, Nyt, etc..

            As to proof you have never given me a specific question about my posts. Hell, I have given you sites but alas only in your eyes are the sites also lying. LOL!!!!

            As to attracting loonies, you seem to be a perfect example of one.

          • Russell Byrd

            Two facts, dickhead.

            One: I SAID Returd poll numbers are near single digits. You PROVE my points about you by not facing the TRUTH that I posted.

            Two: Hundreds of millions have been spent by your evil heroes defaming Obama and the ACA. Almost everything they have said is a LIE. YOU DO NOT ADDRESS THE ISSUES IN MY REPLY.

            Yet, you will whip one small point to death to keep your trolling disruption of this blog going. You fool NO ONE. Not about the true facts, nor about your RACISM, unsavory untruthfulness, and hatred for anyone not thinking exactly like you.

            In fact, you hate just about everyone. . . .
            And f*ck you for the LIES about your”son.” No disgusting LIE is out of bounds for you.

            The reason you scums single me out and hate me so bad is WE ALL know that I know you like the back of my hand.

          • mike

            Worthless excuse for a human being Russell.
            1. I never said single digits, so Julia keep being delusional. If you could read his numbers they are opposite from where they were a year ago and the polls say he is no longer TRUSTWORTHY.
            2. The lost coverages, the higher premiums, higher out of pocket expense, loss of doctors, hospitals in exchanges, the list goes on and are not lies. If you are right, why have polls showing large numbers abandoning him on Healthcare and the handling of economy? What you can’t grasp is that he lost the TRUST WITH AMERICANS when the website collapsed, the price of new policies were exposed and the cancellation letters when out.

            His signature legislation, his legacy is a complete debacle.

            He lied and he and his party will pay heavily.

            Charlie, my Army Ranger, 6 tours to Iraq and Afghanistan, is dead you worthless, despicable piece of crap.

            I have never singled you out, it is you that started this, not me. I responded to your lunacy. All my conversations were with the Independent1 not you. You started it and you can end it.
            You despicable piece of nothing.
            You are certified NUTS!!! Sad but true.

          • Russell Byrd

            1. I AM THE ONE THAT SAID SINGLE DIGITS, you freaking mental midget. You cannot even keep your lies straight. The Returd party is just about that popular right now, but rather than become reasonable, you just keep bashing Obama for a few paltry details. All the while, your own thieving, lying heroes platform is in the toilet and they are to ornery and stupid to care. DITTO for you.
            2. PROVEN LIES! What is happening is the insurance companies are cancelling policies in retaliation AND the ACA abolishes JUNK insurance policies.

            Why is it that only far, far, insane far, right wing nitwits are the only ones with cancellations, higher out of pocket, and lost coverages. Is there a conspiracy against you people? Oh my, another Liberal conspiracy. . . . Yeah, and you will still be a freaking moron.

            The “debacle” is largely in the propaganda paid for by the likes of the Kock boys. Your heroes.

            “Charlie, my Army Ranger, 6 tours to Iraq and Afghanistan, is dead you worthless, despicable piece of crap.” I don’t believe you for one minute. I have NO doubts that you are lying. You do not talk like you have had a loss, but you do sound like someone that is trying to trump an argument because he has not a clue of how to “prove” his LIES. And for your mental midget mind savvy this: LIES, by definition, are NOT provable. That is why they are lies.

            So, you will have to prove that beyond any doubt. Years of LIES makes everything you say impossible to believe. ONCE AGAIN, and you have never refuted or even replied: BUSH & (especially) CHENEY started that war. If “Charlie” is dead, you are blaming the wrong outfit. How evil AND stupid can one person be to not see that.

            YOU ALWAYS single someone out, and you NEVER stop posting replies of nonsense and LIES. STOP, GO AWAY, and it is DONE.

            You hate me because I am just a lot better at this than you and I will not run. NO fun for you there, but in your little psychotic mind, YOU CAN’T QUIT.

            YOU hypocritical c*cks*cker, I will remind you that YOU were of the opinion that ALL conversations here are public. You have slurred people that I have been in conversation with that said NOTHING that was controversial. You just jump in where you please.

            I will support Independent1 when I can, because you do NOT conduct discussion with truth and reasoned opinion. NO you are just a LYING bully that is here to disrupt.

          • mike

            Your remarks about my Son are despicable you lousy excuse a human being.

            As to the rest of your post. Their name is Koch brothers
            Taking over 1/6 of the economy is not paltry, having a program that was never completed or tested before implementation is call incompetent.

            The cancellation of insurance policies is directly connected to ACA. I know you can show where mass cancellations have happened in the past. Oh that’s right, your are too lazy and to deep into denial.

            I have never blamed any one for his death. It was his choice after 9/11.

            As to the rest of post, paranoia, more diarrhea of the brain, and a lot more rambling Gobbledy gook from a nut case-that’s you..

          • Russell Byrd

            I have already answered your LIES with extensive conversation far outreaching the LIES you have told and are telling.

            “I have never blamed any one for his death. It was his choice after 9/11.” YOU ARE A SUPREME SON OF A BITCH. THAT IS A TOTAL LIE. You will burn in HELL for the insult to your own son’s name.

            Of course, you only add to the evidence that this is all fiction. You are the damnest LIAR in a bunch of right-wing troll LIARS.

            Once again, YOU ANSWERED NO CHALLENGES AND GAVE NO EVIDENCE OR REBUTTAL. Denial and insult, but no substance. You accuse me of being a nut-case when we know you are a proud “graduate” of a Chicago mental institution. Or is it you are still there?

          • mike

            You have never walked in my shoes so you have do idea who I am or what we went thru.
            Give me the challenge question. What specific question/questions about ACA, Obama you claim I lied about. Try in your deranged mine to give a specific example where I lied. Not your ranting, and expletives, a specific topic on ACA or Obama.
            The WORD IS SPECIFIC. Not hard-well with your delusional life that might be.

          • Russell Byrd

            I can say with authority that I have asked you to answer more questions than the number of posts I have made. I sometimes do not ask a question, but in some posts I will ask multiple questions. With a handful of exceptions, you have never tried to answer any questions. Even then, you use the most convenient, repetitive LIE to try to respond. Then I have to shoot you down again and ask the questions again. Of course, this does in a way fulfill my mission. I keep you ranting at me, wound up ready to pop, and away from other posters to some extent. ALL GOOD. (Think about it: You are unlikely to see me at Breitfart.)

            Re-read your own posts, I am not going to do your work for you. If I do, you will either ignore me or spin onto some other view or subject. You have been told this repeatedly.

            On the other hand, I do answer almost all of your questions. That is why my posts are generally twice as long as yours. A mighty waste of my time it is too. One that I am soon to correct.

            As for ranting, YOU are the only one doing that. If you weren’t ranting, then this conversation would be over.

            As for expletives, you have earned my derision. Imagine that each of my expletives is ten times worse than it sounds. You have earned each and every one. I do think you are hilariously ignorant and stupid, yet your dishonesty and bullying trolling are to contemptible.

            May I say, that you will probably someday forget that you are not hiding in mama’s basement, and when you are out and about, you will spew your shit to someone that gaffs you from your LYING mouth to your shriveled pecker. Your guts will spew in the street. Sad, but inevitable. What I regret is some poor soul will be imprisoned for doing something that is actually good and another poor slob will wind up scooping your evil innards off the street.

          • mike

            Still laughing a very sick and delusional person.
            You are verifiable nuts!!!
            Laughing at you more each minute. Still laughing. Oh my God, you are really funny in a sad way. Still laughing.

          • Russell Byrd

            Mikey-Trikey, keep laughing. You will be here this time next year, if that is what you want. You never have gotten over on me yet, AND you never will.

            Like I have told you many dozens of times, you want to disrupt as much as possible. I only want to disrupt you. That is why you will be the one that is gone when Memo finally gets desperate enough. Of course, you will come back, but each time you do, you will last for shorter and shorter periods of time. So dream on.

            As well, by messing with me, you do not have as much time to mess with other people. I am doing a public service, because I do not care what you do when you are not LYING, bullying, disrupting, and trolling.

            Your stupidity is laughable. Your killing yourself to accomplish nothing. I warn you, but you will do it anyway. My conscience is clear. You do not have one, so that is moot.

            By the way, the hyped up put on about laughing is in itself hilarious. Anyone coming here knows you carry on like that because you are not only morally bankrupt, but have not a clue for an on-topic response.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Meaningless Mikey-Trikey. That article will not change the facts that I told you an outrageous and EASILY detectable whopper just to get you stirred up and you fell for it, “hook, line, and sinker.” You jumped right into the boat, and I did not have to turn the reel. ROTFL.

            No amount of spin will change the truth. Sorry.

          • Russell Byrd

            Not proof of anything, but the gauging of the opinions of other Americans that have been bombarded by LIES paid for by such as the Kock boys. In other words, a popularity poll, not evidence. Stupid is as stupid does. Well you do stupid so you must be so.

          • Russell Byrd

            Dealt with as earlier described. :-)

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Ditto, per my earlier policy.

            By the way, I admire the way you can come up with off-topic, biased garbage and try to pass it off as valuable. Well, I would if you had the IQ of an idiot. OR DO YOU?

          • Russell Byrd

            Obviously, you cannot and will not even try to read.

            Ignorance is bliss, they say. Please continue to show your ignorance and be blissful. I will take knowledge myself.

          • mike

            http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/obamas-trustworthiness-takes-hit
            I will no longer respond in the future to anymore of your post in writing.It is a game of futility.

            Just the beginning, for every ranting delusional post I get from you will be covered in articles with facts. This from one is from one of yours.

            Expect more and more.

          • Russell Byrd

            I will point out that posting right wing spin will not impress anyone here except the OTHER disrupting dickheads like you.

            You are not even any good at it.

            BUT if you must, go for it. Every bit of time you waste, only makes my mission more successful. So please do so. Unfortunately, as you are a moral coward, I doubt it will come to much. Anyway, you are pathetically easy to refute.

          • Russell Byrd

            ANOTHER FUNCTIONAL AND INTENTIONAL LIE. Promise was broken in minutes after being made.

            This same promise has been made many, many times before and he never keeps it for more than a few minutes.

            All I have ever asked him for is to leave other posters alone if he cannot do better.

            Do you notice, that after promising not to reply, he promises to reply more?

            This guy is truly in need of psychological attention. This is not a slur or smart remark, but the sincere truth.

          • Russell Byrd

            Cool, please do so. Your links are mostly biased and off-topic. The rest are borderline LIES. I do not even need to respond except to keep you in play. Please do so!

          • Russell Byrd

            Once again, just like angelsinca, why would any of us be expected to give you any sympathy, EVEN if you were telling the truth. You came here with the STATED purpose of defending your bankrupt ideas by bullying, trolling, and any tactic necessary. You STATED as well, and quite plainly, that you were educating us. I for one, probably have a lot more education than you can even comprehend, and a lot more in the IQ department. Don’t bother with the biased self-indulgent statement that you have common sense. THAT is a proven FAIL.

            Why would we treat you with respect, when you give NONE!?

            Please answer this question for the moderators, as I am flagging both posts.

          • Russell Byrd

            And as far as I am concerned, their name is KOCK. WE BOTH know what I am getting at, and it is childish of you to think that I would care.

            One sixth of the economy? Has the Kock boys taken over that much of it already? I am not surprised.

            All jokes aside. They are near Nazi, Bircher, anti-Democracy fruit cakes that have far too much money and power. They only want more at the expense of everyone else. That includes you dumb ass. They are out to destroy our Democracy and place themselves at the head of a Plutocracy.

            The fact that you cannot get that and think these shits are heroes shows just how stupid, dishonest, and morally bankrupt you are.

          • mike

            Russell, you are a worthless piece of nothing whose rantings are border lining on delusional. You are a sick, sad person.

          • Russell Byrd

            I told nothing but truth in my post. You have no reply. As always, you call names. Of course, you claim that you don’t.

            Am I calling names? I certainly am. Truth and reason cannot cut through that slime of evil you are bathing in. So, I call you what you are without the polite veneer.

            Let’s just say that I recommend that the general viewing public just read my previous post. “Nuff said!

          • Russell Byrd

            That is a satisfactory reply to the truth I posted above. Thanks for confirming the facts. Your no content post speaks volumes as a non-rebuttal of the facts.

            If telling the truth is delusional and sick and sad, then I am that. Yet where I come from, honesty is HIGHLY prized. Of course, you would be unwelcome there in minutes.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            One term for this is “sweat equity,” where you do part of your own work to take the load off the paid crew. So, I am just going to kick back and relax. It feels good to see you finally trying, but still failing from bias and a lack of scholarship, to defend your positions as I used to. I could not hammer cold, hard fact into your skull, so now I just kick back and relate what I already know to be true. YAWN!

          • Russell Byrd

            Really, not worth the trouble. Quantity will never replace quality. AND definitely, a million LIES will never equal one TRUTH. Please continue.

          • Russell Byrd

            “As to attracting loonies, you seem to be a perfect example of one.”

            The best you can do is steal the ideas of others. Otherwise, all you can do is spread tripe and LIES.

            By the way, another point you continue not to address, I kept my doctor. Only dumb asses with junk insurance policies lost their doctor.

          • Russell Byrd

            Oh dickhead, I will add. If I chose a doctor out of network, I will pay more, a lot more. That is the way my insurance, which by the way is very good insurance, HAS ALWAYS BEEN. It pretty much is the way ALL insurance is.

            You not only have no credibility, your LIES do not even have the quality of minimal thought. That is one reason I stopped posting for awhile. With disruptive TROLLS like you, the quality of conversation hits rock bottom. Maybe, Mother Jones & National Memo will figure this out and start removing the NO quality posters before it is too late. Most of the news services have sure noticed.

          • mike

            But that is not how it was sold by Obama. He said you like your doctor you can keep him, if you like your insurance you can keep it,period. Premiums will go down, etc.. He never mentioned that the exchanges would force doctors out. That in some states there only one exchange, ergo no competition.

            If they do I have a feeling NM will remove you first. You have not made one substantive argument yet. Not once have you tried to rebut with actual facts to substantiate your position-Not once. You have one response to everything-you are a liar.
            You are a lying, lazy, worthless piece of humanity, delusional, sick person.

          • Russell Byrd

            Let’s compare facts. I my view, Obama misspoke on several points, but unlike Returds, he had no malice.

            We have the ACA. No Returd did anything but try to destroy it and delay it. They even shutdown the government. Don’t bother with your standard LIES, the Returds pretty universally admit this. The Teatards are even proud of this and assure us they are ready to do it again. So their is no use in wasting bandwidth with your standard LIES.

            Your Kock boys have spent 400 million they stole off the real “producers” backs to convince those same people that programs designed to help them should be avoided. How evil is that?

            Insurance companiess are routinely lying to customers in an attempt to continue to enhance profits and destroy the ACA. How evil is that?

            Policy cancellations, ditto. As much as the insurance companies malice as the ACA.

            I could go on for quite a spell, but as I am talking to an empty suit, there is little use, but my point is proven and plain.

            As far as your second paragraph, you are really something. Do you think your ignorant LIES impress me. We both know where the no-information, low quality posts are coming from. His name is “mike.”

            I realize you do not care if they throw you off. You already have it in your head that you will come back as “old joe” or “maryann” or some other freak. You might be wrong, of course.

            Haven’t you ever grasped the TRUTH that I have repeatedly enlightened you with? Well, I tried, anyway. You come to troll, and disrupt any and every conversation you can. I only come to disrupt YOU and those like you. Your job gets hard when I am around, but my job is relatively easy.

            Unlike yourself, I respect the conversation of others. I only disrupt the disruptors. You can never win as you so desperately desire. I can give you a pass, but you can never win. Never have, never will. Please continue Bozo. :-)

          • mike

            You crack me up.

            I asked you to give me a specific “so called” lie I have made on any of my post and you failed to give me even one.. What I received is more of your rambling standard left wing crap.

            One more time, name a specific lie you think I made and we see who is right the real liar. Give me the sentence or paragraph you think is a lie made by me. Pretty simple for even you to follow.

            As to the rest of your post no substance just the ranting of a very sick mind..

          • Russell Byrd

            READ my previous posts. READ!

            However, an example”

            “My Army Ranger son is DEAD you lousy excuse for a person.”

            One of the most evil and deceitful tactics that even most vicious LIARS would stoop to do.

            You’ve LIED about your sources. Even the ones that are real are only in the business of telling lopsided LIES. All eaten up greedily by you.

            You have LIED about just every aspect of the ACA. As well, you seem addicted to the evil propaganda bought by evil people. You do not ever crosscheck the facts.

            And incredibly, you LIE constantly about what I say in reply.

            You talk about U3 and U6 like they are magic spells, when you cannot even describe what the information means. When I explained it to you, in the past, you still claim that I am the one that does not understand. Yet, you do not have a clue.

            Face it. If you were not here, you would not be taking this unpleasant plastering. You do not even have that audience to piss off. You are just that dumb.

            As I have said, do your own work. I refuse to waste anymore time than necessary in busting your LIES. In fact, the entire premise of your post is a LIE.

            I do not need to “crack you up.” You were already cracked.

            AND you refuse to answer the same questions I have posed to you many times. Willfully refusing to tell the truth is LYING. Though you are an incredibly clumsy LIAR, you are persistent. I give you that.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Read my earlier post of how and why your posts are being dealt with.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Read my earlier statement of how and why your posts are being dealt with.

          • Russell Byrd

            Actually Mikey-Trikey, you are proved to be the one with the sick mind. For instance, “Julia.” You got played, and I let you off the hook. Yet, you have a pathology where you desparately need to continue to justify your stupidity as intelligence. A normal man would take the opportunity to let time heal the mistake. BUT you have to tell the tale on yourself. To stupid to realize that your own words make you appear a fool.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Read my earlier posting regarding the treatment of your biased links.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            Dealt with as previously specified. Please continue.

          • Russell Byrd

            Re-Read my earlier posting regarding the treatment of your biased links.

          • mike
          • Russell Byrd

            I do, but as you do not even understand what all those little characters really mean, it is useless to bother with. You seem fixated on just grabbing anything that trips your tiny brain into an orgasm. Can’t you see that the world is not your simplistic ideal where everything means exactly what your little evil mind assumes it does. Double FAIL.

  • FT66

    My fellow Dems, the time to play politics has just started and must continue. Paul Ryan can’t agree on one thing and come to reject another thing later.The trend has to fall suit. Whether it is Immigration Reform or Debt Ceiling he has to agree the way he has recently done to the Budget Deal. If he will go to the different direction, it is our obligation to let people know that it was all about politics. If they think delaying policies on Obamacare is all about politics, why not us let people know it is all about politics to delay Immigration Reform or pause their desire on Debt Ceiling.

    • neeceoooo

      We all need to come together which is something the democrats do very well.

      • angelsinca

        Zombies do better when they form hordes against their prey.

        • Independent1

          Being one I guess you should know. Is that a Republican thing?? Dems and Independents aren’t into Zombies.

          • angelsinca

            “Dems and Independents aren’t into Zombies.”

            Here lies the problem. The best rated series of all time is in its fourth season on AMC. While most of America is learning survival techniques from The Walking Dead, you are still chasing romance novels with vampires and werewolves.

          • Russell Byrd

            You are in fantasy land. You would not last five minutes in a “survival” situation.

            Fighting zombies! Now THAT is delusional.

            Go ahead and flag my low content reply to your NO content post.

          • angelsinca

            another flag

          • Russell Byrd

            Indeed! Four more flags with many more coming!

          • Russell Byrd

            Answer is required or question will continue to be repeated. Bullshit is over.

            ARE YOU STILL UNDER CARE FOR MENTAL ILLNESS?

          • Russell Byrd

            Indeed! Yet another flag . . . by me!

          • Russell Byrd

            Answer is required or question will continue to be repeated. Bullshit is over.

            DO YOU HAVE A JOB?

        • Russell Byrd

          Answer is required or question will continue to be repeated. Bullshit is over.

          WHY DO YOU ENJOY THE PAIN OF OTHERS SO MUCH?

  • Bryan Blake

    The Democrats did not make a “budget deal” they simply capitulated to the Republicans once again. The Republicans have played the Democrats like a fiddle at a barn dance and the Democrats keep dancing to the GOP’s grating tunes. No matter what Senator Murray, Nancy Pelosi and Senator Reid may think the rest of us see through this “sham”. The Democrats have simply allowed the Republican establishment to temporarily loosen the choke hold of The Tea Party around their necks. Boehner’s “public outrage” was nothing more than a crass imitation of Kabuki Theater. They want everyone to believe that they are pushing back against The Tea Party when in fact they are not and will not anytime soon.

    Unfortunately the label of “do-nothing Congress” includes the majority of Democrats as well. As long as the bulk of elected Democrats in Washington tremble in the DLC camp the center-left of our country has no chance of being represented in the federal government. I mistakenly said that we have 1 and 1/2 political parties in this country. But in fact we have four: The Tea Party, The Extremely Conservative Republican Party, The DLC-Democratic Party (a.k.a. Republican Lite) and the center-left Democratic Party which is starved for campaign funds because of the Republicanism of the sources of much of the campaign funds the DLC brings in.

    The birth of the Tea Party can also be laid at the feet of the DLC. Without resistance extremism will always flourish. It is just very hard to rebuke your lover when both you and your spouse are in bed with her/him.

    Until the leaders of the Democratic Party are no longer mesmerized by the glitter of cubic zirconia and learn to be old school center-left politicians the Republicans will continue to cement our nation in right wind extremism.

    Budget deal: Republicans 1, Democrats 0. Debt ceiling: Depends on the lunacy of The Tea Party and whether or not President Obama and the Democrats cave and sell out what little of their principles remain!

  • JanNH

    Get out the popcorn!

    I’m willing to bet Obama is STILL not going to negotiate over paying the bills…
    So, will Republicans shut down the government again?

    • angelsinca

      The bills CAN”T be paid anymore. The US can’t even make the interest payments on the present debt, even as the debt continues to grow. But keep believing everything is alright, just like the WH expects you to.

      • Russell Byrd

        93% of the population lost $600 billion in income in the last three years. The top 7% made more than $4 trillion MORE than they did in the previous three years. With the Returds dedicated to continuing and expanding poverty in this country, where do you think we should get the shortfall?

        Of course, you will say punish the 93% for their losing their income.
        On your total lack of moral courage and ethics, I need not elaborate further.

  • Chumba Wumba

    Each of us should keep in mind that the most common illusions conjured up to justify collectivism include “social justice”, “fair” income distribution, and “global warming”.

  • Dominick Vila

    Feel good themes at a time when everything suggest a potential debacle in 2014 is the last thing we should do. I realize it is too early to make predictions or suggest doom and gloom, but unless something changes very soon, 2014 may turn out to be a sequel to 2010.

    Budget battles, which most Republicans believe are favorable to them, will fade into oblivion this coming November. The same goes for foreign policy. The dominant issue is going to be ACA and the state of the economy, with special focus on job creation. Hopefully, the ACA enrollments will accelerate between now and then, and public opinion will change, because otherwise we are going to be facing an uphill battle in November 2014 and the likelihood of the GOP controlling both chambers of Congress – and the agenda – is more than just plausible.
    The economy is improving, but don’t be surprised if the GOP manages to take credit for what they obstructed…and succeeds in doing so. Public opinion regarding the effectiveness of ACA depends strictly on our ability to convince people to join the ACA exchanges, and explain to them to benefits of the program. Thus far, public opinion on the latter is influenced strictly by what the GOP has been telling the American people. As bad as the deployment of ACA has been, the truth is that the administration has done a lousy job at selling the new program to the American people. The problem is not ACA, the problem is the way a program that is beneficial to most Americans and, potentially, to our business community has been presented to the general populace.

    • Independent1

      Dominick, hopefully over the next 10 months, enough people will have had positive experiences with ACA and be able to spread that word loud enough to be heard around the nation, such that people in red states will rise up and start complaining about the GOP lying to them all along about the ACA.

      • Dominick Vila

        I hope so. Unfortunately, negativism seems to dominate the agenda and, in this case, the perception that so many Americans have of ACA. The most perplexing part for me, when I ask some of my relatives and friends why are they so opposed to ACA is their inability to provide a clear reason for their opinion. Their response is invariably because it is a monstrosity, it is socialism, and all the other nonsense used to hide the fact that the only reason they oppose ACA is because it was proposed, championed and signed by Barack Obama.
        Having said that, I think the ACA deployment has been less than impressive, that the focus on improving the ACA website, while necessary, ignores that a large number of uninsured don’t own or know how to use a computer, that many of our poor and, especially, the homeless have not even heard about ACA or have no idea how beneficial it would be for them.
        The problem is not ACA, which is an excellent healthcare program, but the way the program has been managed thus far, and the inability of the administration to challenge its demonization, What scares the GOP is not that ACA may fail, but that it may succeed and may become so popular that it will be virtually impossible to get rid of it.

        • Independent1

          Dominick, I just came across an article in the Motley Fool that may be a glimmer of hope for us in 2014. The negativism for Obamacare is turning around. See this:

          Perhaps the biggest positive news for Obamacare stems from the big money flowing into advertising. According to The Wall Street Journal, WellPoint (NYSE: WLP ) is planning to spend as much as $100 million on advertising — by the the end of the year.

          Health Care Service Corporation, which owns Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans in Illinois, Montana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas, is also gearing up an advertising blitz for its Obamacare plans. The nation’s fourth-largest health insurer is targeting billboards, direct mail, Internet, radio, and television channels to get the word out.

          If things weren’t getting better for Obamacare, these and other insurers wouldn’t be so eager to shell out the big bucks on marketing. Money talks — and it seems to be saying that things are looking better than they have in a while for health reform.

          AND THERE’S MORE:

          Now, though, some celebrities are actively helping to promote Obamacare. Maroon 5 lead singer Adam Levine tweeted his 4.7 million Twitter followers last week, encouraging Californians to sign up for insurance on the state’s website. Several other famous actors and sports figures — including George Lopez, Marlon Wayans, and Lisa Leslie — are also helping spread the word about enrolling in Obamacare plans.

          Of course, California’s state health exchange didn’t have nearly as many problems as the HealthCare.gov website. And the problems California did have weren’t as severe as the federally operated marketplace. Still, celebrity endorsements (as opposed to celebrity derision) is an improvement. If those plugs help push more young people to sign up for Obamacare, it could be a really good sign for the program.

          • Dominick Vila

            Thank you for sharing that information. The decision by large insurance companies to advertise the benefits of their ACA plans is, indeed, encouraging.

          • Independent1
          • Dominick Vila

            Support at a state level makes a huge difference. I live in Florida where the only coverage of the Affordable Care Act is negative. Not surprisingly, the rate of enrollment is minimal compared to states like California, New York and a few others. Hopefully, the anticipated advertising by the insurance industry will make a difference at a national level.

        • mike

          Keep dreaming on its success. This summer when the premiums for business are released and 66% of small employers and 47% large employers cancel their policies, then we will see. Oh, that is from the Federal Register 2010 by Obama officials that worked on ACA. Also, attributed to them is 93 Million will lose healthcare insurance. AGAIN 2010. YEARS BEFORE OBAMA AND HIS GREAT LIES.
          So what you are saying your relatives and friends are Racist, Right. Couldn’t be they actually have a brain and use common sense.
          Perplexing to me, you still believe in this President. His signature program-his legacy- and he knows nothing about its implementation. He is incompetent or he has put around him people who are afraid to tell him or to dense to know the consequences. They are all still Amateurs after 5 years.

          • Dominick Vila

            Mike, our corporations don’t offer healthcare coverage, and other benefits, because of anything our government does, but because they are competing against each other for a small pool of highly qualified Americans to fill the vacancies they have and deliver the goods or services they offer. Anyone who thinks that MICROSOFT, Google, Intel, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, GE, HONEYWELL and other large corporations are going to terminate their healthcare plans because of ACA is delusional. At least in the short term. They, as well as mid and small size companies may eventually push for an expansion of ACA to become a universal plan designed to cover all Americans, as a means to reduce operating costs and improve their ability to compete in the global market, but we are not there yet.
            Regarding racists – I don’t believe every opponent of the changes that have been taking place since President Obama was first elected is a racist, but some are. Consider this, during a conversation with a neighbor whose 32 and 35 year old “children” have been unemployed, and collecting MEDICAID and food stamps, called President Obama a communist intent on destroying America, I could not help myself and I asked her how could a person who family depends on government handouts consider herself a Republican. Her answer was unequivocal: because the Democratic party is the party of ni..ers. What exactly do you expect me to conclude other than my interlocutor was a racist?

          • mike

            Dom, I hope all is well with you and that you have a Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday.
            You are correct that up until 2014 the government has nothing to do with healthcare of each corp.. But that all changed with ACA and that future policies will have to fit the Fed. standards.
            What I repeated was from the FR with official members of the Obama admin. who were involved in the writing of ACA saying that 47% of LARGE CORPORATION will cancel their policies. I never mentioned any specific corporation. With this anemic economy I could see corporations dumping their insurance because where are these employees going to find another job.

            You know the Federal Register and the role it plays on a daily bases as to proposed rules, final rulings, regulations, changed rules and notice of meetings and adjudicatory proceedings and that was where my info came from-not from left or right.

            As to racism. I can give you my stories to make just the opposite point. Obama has not made it easier with his “stupidly remark”, “could have be my son”, etc.. His actions have been just the opposite of his campaign remarks to unite the country.

            Their are racist in both parties, but since day one if you criticized the president you were a racist Keep calling a person a racist just because they disagree with policies will slowly make them quite jaundice to him and all those who support him. My best friend in High School, a black, have had many very heated arguments on Obama, he finally looked at me and said I was a racist because of my criticism of him. I got up walked out and have not seen him since. I wrote him and asked him to retract his comment and he refused. Another very close friend is a black minister and I asked what i should do and he said “just forgive him”, I forgave him but to this day he has never responded. Who is the racist in this story????

          • Dominick Vila

            Your best friend’s reaction does not make him a racist. He, like most minorities, are convinced that the policy proposals advanced by the GOP are designed to marginalize them or, as a minimum, do absolutely nothing to help them overcome the problems they face. Emotions are running high on both sides of our political spectrum, and overreactions are not surprising.

          • mike

            Nor am I!!! So, I guess you feel since I am critical of his policies, I am.
            My only other comment is: who is languishing more by the economic policies of the Obama admin.-Blacks?
            So, GOP has done nothing to help them and the Dems have-that is a crock of manure.

          • Dominick Vila

            No, I don’t believe you are, and I did not insinuate that. I simply stated what is obvious to me, that the reaction of your best friends was probably influenced by the perceptions that dominate the opinion of most minorities in the USA.

          • mike

            Yet after 50 plus years it was never expressed until Obama entered the picture. He knew my positions long before and we often would laugh and say we neutralized each others vote. I believe it was always suppressed, their dislike of whites, and only came to light after Obama’s election. Just my thoughts.

    • angelsinca

      Right. Saying the problem with the ACA is ‘only in the presentation’ is like saying that the effects of a head-on collision can be fixed with a little rubbing compound. Your positive outlook has always been inspiring, Dominic. But it only drives you further from the present reality.

      • Independent1

        What present reality is that?? The fact that ACA signups are skyrocketing in states that have supported it?? Which they are!!

        The fact that hundreds of thousands of people have already been helped by it?? Tens of thousands who have been able to purchase insurance for the 1st time in years because they had been refused coverage in the past due to pre existing conditions?? Because there are tens of thousands of them!! While others have found policies they could afford now that they never could before.

        And you asked me in another post why I’m losing!! I’m losing it because of comments like you just made to Dominick without any justification whatsoever, You just made all that crap up with no statistics whatsoever for you to make those comments. And you wonder why I’m starting to get tired of you complete idiots on the NM!!!

        • angelsinca

          Calm down, I1. You look much better without the aggressive ‘tude. I understand your desire for analytics to explain an opinion, but trust me, it isn’t necessary. You claim to have an open mind, try to examine it differently. I visit the memo to find opposing views and comments geared against ‘my ilk’ that are mostly untrue, usually mean and repeatedly accusatory. Sometimes the encounter is enlightening. Sometimes, it is threatening. You have to remember that your comments here represent a lot of people. If you want to hate on republicans and conservatives in a public forum, you invite challenge. Does The Memo really want to hang a sign on its public forum that reads, ‘We Piss On You If You Don’t Agree’?

          Back on topic, I agree that a lot of people have benefited from the ACA. Since the ACA became law, the healthcare I had been paying for, for nearly three decades, has become unaffordable for me. The care I have had and continue to NEED is now out of reach. I have LOST my healthcare and i blame the ACA. The cause and effect is an easy one to see. But, I am real glad to hear about all those people that are better off now.

          • Independent1

            Say, you may enjoy seeing this too from an investment website:

            Perhaps the biggest positive news for Obamacare stems from the big money flowing into advertising. According to The Wall Street Journal, WellPoint (NYSE: WLP ) is planning to spend as much as $100 million on advertising — by the the end of the year.

            Health Care Service Corporation, which owns Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans in Illinois, Montana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas, is also gearing up an advertising blitz for its Obamacare plans. The nation’s fourth-largest health insurer is targeting billboards, direct mail, Internet, radio, and television channels to get the word out.

            If things weren’t getting better for Obamacare, these and other insurers wouldn’t be so eager to shell out the big bucks on marketing. Money talks — and it seems to be saying that things are looking better than they have in a while for health reform.

            AND THERE’S MORE:

            Now, though, some celebrities are actively helping to promote Obamacare. Maroon 5 lead singer Adam Levine tweeted his 4.7 million Twitter followers last week, encouraging Californians to sign up for insurance on the state’s website. Several other famous actors and sports figures — including George Lopez, Marlon Wayans, and Lisa Leslie — are also helping spread the word about enrolling in Obamacare plans.

            Of course, California’s state health exchange didn’t have nearly as many problems as the HealthCare.gov website. And the problems California did have weren’t as severe as the federally operated marketplace. Still, celebrity endorsements (as opposed to celebrity derision) is an improvement. If those plugs help push more young people to sign up for Obamacare, it could be a really good sign for the program.

          • angelsinca

            “If those plugs help push more young people to sign up for Obamacare, it could be a really good sign for the program.”

            That’s the plan. What if the young continue to reject the mandate? With the celebrity endorsements, the WH can’t even interest A-listers to push the product for them. The ACA is toxic and bad for the image makers.

            Wish they would stop wasting taxpayer’s money on trying to sell this turd. There were other plans much more appealing. And most of those were deemed inadequate and cancelled. MILLIONS of them.

            In CA, the ex-Berkeley grad Lee, charged with the state’s ACA website, declared he only needs a modest 417K signups by the end of March to deem the state’s exchange ‘successful’. So far, less than half that amount have enrolled. You’d think that with the ACA being forced on 30 million Californians, there would be more enthusiasm.

            But I’m not surprised. Most have had to deal with the state’s Motor Vehicle Dept many times in the lives and already know what a gov’t-run nightmare is.

          • Independent1

            More nonsense comments. ACA enrollments are already starting to boom and with health insurance providers doing their part to advertise them, the GOP can kiss repealing ACA and keeping the House in 2014 goodbye!!!

            Take a look at this article and read some of the comments which will show you just how much some people are appreciating being able to purchase AFFORDABLE INSURANCE WITH INSURANCE COMPANIES NOT BEING ABLE TO DENY THEM COVERAGE!!! AND GET A LIFE!! YOUR LIES AND DISTORTIONS ARE NOT WELCOMED ON THE NM!!!!

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/18/1263785/-Here-Comes-the-Boom-ACA-enrollments-up-to-MINIMUM-of-21K-per-day?detail=email2

          • angelsinca

            If you bothered to read the notes on the chart in the link you offered, the CBO-projected enrollment of 7.1M by 3/31/14 will fall short by almost 3M at the present ‘BOOM’ing enrollment rate. Those enrolled don’t even make of for those dropped. How much is Purina Unicorn Feed these days?

          • Russell Byrd

            Still a damn LIAR. If your insurance is now unaffordable, then you had a “junk” insurance policy. You were never getting the “care you need.”

            As always, you are just shooting a shit story to keep your foul ideas in play. What do you gain by stirring the pot. It has always cost you more time and worries than it has ever cost us. I guess you must be too nuts for Breitbart and have made yourself totally unwelcome there. Even the crazy, mental midgets over there cannot abide you.

          • angelsinca

            Ewwwww, it’s Russell Boorish Byrd

          • Russell Byrd

            What about yourself? You are out of place here. Your unwanted advances are unwelcome with 90%+ of the posters.

            If I am so disgusting, go to Breitfart, and you will fit like a glove. Ewwwww, it’s angelstink in Breitfart!

          • angelsinca

            Have to flag this one. You creep me out. I find myself double checking the locks on the doors whenever you come around. Your abuse is not appreciated. Crawl back in your hole.

          • Russell Byrd

            You are a CREEP. Please make sure the door on you self-loathing closet is very secure and never come back out.

            You pretty much admitted that I “hit the nail on the head” in my post. You are bankrupt for a good lie to reply to the exact truth.

            Flag away. I will reciprocate. Except for some small vulgarity there is NOTHING in my post to flag. I responded in kind to your post, but I just happened to be truthful. I am just more on point and that just kills you. So flag away, I WILL TOO. Lets see who gets banned for no content posts!.

          • angelsinca

            flagged

          • Russell Byrd

            Definitely, just for good measure.

          • angelsinca

            Banning will happen due toyou REPEATED violations of the Terms Of Service. It’s the ABUSE and ATTACK factor you regularly practice. You do it so often, you don’t even know you are doing it.

          • Russell Byrd

            Sorry, you are so wrong. I have read those terms, and as I am only responding to your disgusting garbage, you will obviously be the first to go. When you are gone, I will be largely out of here myself.

            ABUSE and ATTACK is what I employ to counteract your ABUSE and ATTACK, and TROLLING, and NO CONTENT POSTING, and BULLYING. Memo is losing their shirt in revenue and posters because of filth like you.

            TRUTH: If I am banned, I will just go back to reading articles as a guest. That is where I started and wished to remain.

            ON THE OTHER HAND, you have built your entire life around the stated purpose of destroying the blog by “educating” those that certainly do not need your input. WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN THEY DROP THE BOOM ON YOU.

            I already know you will just change your avatar, but as you will go back to your old habits, you will not last long. And everytime you do it again, you will be ejected faster and faster.

            So, I am going to flag all your posts and mine too. I lose, I still win. You lose, and your entire purpose in life is GONE.

          • Russell Byrd

            Your abuse has never been appreciated, by ANYONE. Therefore, it is being returned to you with some modest interest. Crawl back into your closet, you confirmed self-loathing homophobe.

      • Russell Byrd

        Persistent no content poster that has the stated intention of shutting down this blog if possible, or at the very least, ruining on-topic conversation and driving posters away.

        I will flag all of this posters posts. Admittedly, he/she (it claims to be either/or as convenient) is rather mild today. AND I flagged this post myself to bring this situation to the moderators attention.

        I don’t care if you ban both of us. There needs to be some peace in here or the blog will die.

  • Alfred Neuman

    Amazing to see criticism of Paul Ryan as somehow beholding to the GOP’s donors, yet strangely never mentioned by those few still supporting Obama is the huge role billionaire and lifetime scumbag George Soros has played in financing every far left, anti-American cause known to mankind.
    Strange indeed.

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