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Monday, October 24, 2016

We watched, so the Virginia shooter got just what he wanted.

We were horrified, sickened, stricken, but still we watched as a deranged gunman fired several shots and murdered two young journalists on live television, wounding their interview subject as well.

Alison Parker, 24, and her cameraman, Adam Ward, 27, were conducting a news report for their Roanoke, Virginia, TV station, interviewing Vicki Gardner, a local chamber of commerce official. It seemed a routine story, a staple of small-city local news broadcasts.

But its ending was anything but routine: A disgruntled former employee of the station came up behind them, paused a few seconds, and then opened fire. (I refuse to use the shooter’s name; he’s had more than enough publicity.)

We watched, so the gunman was gratified.

Psychologists tell us that our violent video age will breed more like him, more angry narcissists hungry for notoriety, for attention, for, well, viewers. In a carefully planned attack, he apparently wore a body camera to capture his savagery; he then uploaded the video to his social media accounts.

Responsible news editors refused to show the most explicit footage, and Facebook and Twitter responded quickly to shut the shooter down.

But the video undoubtedly lives on in the Internet’s murky underworld. This is the modern version of the Roman Colosseum, a 21st-century update of public executions.

And, yet, it was uniquely American, the sort of horror show for which we have developed a worldwide reputation. While social media are in use everywhere — jihadists have used them to publicize their own gruesome executions — only in the United States do we allow madmen easy access to firearms. We have created the perfect conditions for turning places of work, of learning, of worship into shooting galleries, targets for the mentally unstable, the angry and unhinged.

According to a recent study, there are more public mass shootings in the United States than in any other country in the world. (The study, conducted by University of Alabama criminologist Adam Lankford, counts only incidents in which four or more people are killed and excludes gang killings and domestic, or family, episodes. The Virginia shooting, horrific though it was, would not have been counted.)

Between 1966 and 2012, there were 90 mass shootings in the United States. That’s nearly a third of the 292 mass shootings around the world, in a country with only 5 percent of the global population. America’s high rate of gun ownership “appears connected to its high percentage of mass shootings,” Lankford wrote.

Parker’s father, Andy Parker, told CNN that he would fight for stronger firearms regulations, denouncing as “cowards” those politicians who kowtow before the gun lobby. “Look, I’m for the Second Amendment, but there has to be a way to force politicians who are cowards and in the pocket of the NRA to come to grips and have sensible laws so that crazy people can’t get guns,” he said.

He’s right, of course. I admire not only his willingness to speak out, but also his ability to string rational sentences together, given what he and his family are going through.

Still, his crusade is unlikely to bear fruit. He can join the countless other grieving families before him — there are enough to populate a small city — who tried to give meaning to their loss by fighting for sensible firearms regulations. Even the families of the Sandy Hook children — 20 kids and seven adults were killed in an elementary school in Connecticut in 2012 — were unable to budge a Congress in thrall to the National Rifle Association.

The cowardice of Congress was not assuaged by public opinion polls, which show overwhelming support for measures such as broader background checks on gun buyers. But the gun lobby threatens to defeat any person who suggests that individuals shouldn’t have their own shoulder-fired rocket launchers, and, apparently, politicians value livelihood over principle.

So there will be more bloodshed. There will be more angry and alienated young men who find it easy to grab a gun and commit a monstrous crime. And given the Virginia shooter’s creative savagery, there will be more video footage of helpless victims.

We’ll be watching.

(Cynthia Tucker won a Pulitzer Prize for commentary in 2007. She can be reached at [email protected])

Photo: A tweet apparently from the shooter of WDBJ7 reporter Alison Parker and cameraman Adam Ward appears to show the shooting during a live broadcast from Bridgewater Plaza, August 26, 2015. Handout via Twitter

  • Dominick Vila

    Excellent article. The media shares responsibility, not only for the cold blooded murder of these two journalists, but for the climate of violence that is evident in every city and town in the USA. The consequences of advertising a culture of violence, with special emphasis on the use of guns to settle scores, and the fascination of the media with the bizarre and irresponsible “solutions” advocated by Donald Trump, are already becoming evident. The latter can be found in the decision of Venezuela’s Nicolas Maduro to deport illegal Colombian immigrants from Venezuela, and deport their children born in Venezuela (anchor babies). The fact that this “coincidence” is being ignored by the U.S. media, while being broadcasted throughout the world as evidence of evil ethnic cleansing, and an overt attempt to deflect attention from Maduro’s failed policies, highlight the extent of the influence of money, the complicity of the media in what is going on, and the tactics being used to win elections in the USA.
    As horrible as the murder of two journalists was, as horrible as the incidence of gun violence in the USA is, the worst part is the influence of money, and the failure of institutions that should be searching and broadcasting the truth, and the irresponsibility of wannabe leaders. The worst part is that millions of Americans not only ignore what is happening, but enjoy and support anything that rejects objective governance, diplomacy, civility, responsibility, and measured reporting by the news media.

    • Kurt CPI

      Yes. Thank goodness some of us still get it.

    • hicusdicus

      You are still a foolish old man who wants to play arm chair philosopher.

      • S.J. Jolly

        And your solution is what, everyone armed to the teeth, and fearfully peering about in every direction?

        • Dominick Vila

          Or journalists too afraid to report the truth for fear of reprisals?

          • S.J. Jolly

            What journalists, in the USA at least, have more to worry about it that corporate-ownership dictated editorial policies will get their hard work consigned to the waste basket, and themselves to Unemployment Comp.
            As for reporting the truth, who’s truth? Opinions as to what that is differ greatly, as witness postings in this forum and others.

          • Dominick Vila

            I can only speak for myself. I don’t expect journalists to act as prosecutors, defense lawyers, or judges. I only expect them to report on what they see or hear, after vetting the information with colleagues.
            Let me give you an example of strange behavior by the media. Venezuela’s President Nicolas Maduro ordered the deportation of Colombian illegal immigrants, and their children born in Venezuela (anchor babies) about a week ago. The foreign media has been covering this event. The U.S. media has remained silent, not because they are unaware of it, but because Maduro used Trump’s illegal immigration “solution” as a model. At least, that is the only explanation I can come up with.

          • S.J. Jolly

            And nothing to do with the fact that few in the USA are interested in evens in Venezuela and Columbia ?

          • Dominick Vila

            Most Americans are not very interested in what happens in the rest of the world. We pay attention when global events affect our interests. Having said that, our media covers developments in countries that most Americans would have trouble finding in a world map. The fact that foreign media is covering what is happening in the Venezuela-Colombia border is suspicious, especially when it involves something that is identical to what Trump, Cruz, and Christie are proposing as a solution to our illegal immigration problem. Could it be that establishing a parallel between our Republican heroes and a myopic communist leader is not the kind of thing we want to hear?

          • DEFENDER88

            In addition to the established Check-and-Balance

            of Executive- Judicial – Legislative

            I consider the Press the 4th Check

            or the Check on the Checks

            And often as not the Only Check that actually works.

          • Dominick Vila

            The sad part is that most people are not interested in what happens anywhere outside the U.S. The media focus on domestic issues; and the way it covers global events, from an American perspective, reflects our ambivalence to what happens in the rest of the world, often until it is too late and the only option left is violence or protracted and expensive projects to offset the effects of things that could have been preventable if we paid more attention to the things that surround us. Contrary to what a lot of people think, we don’t live in a cocoon, and we are definitely not impervious to what is happening elsewhere.
            Our problems exacerbated when the very entities that are expected to defend our interests, establish long term goals instead of reacting to the events of the day, and gain popular support by informing the populace of things that are of interest to us as a nation and as the leaders of the free world, engage instead in partisan politics to stay in power and protect/advance the interests of a few at the expense of many.

          • DEFENDER88

            I see the influence of money/lobbyists as the biggest flaw in our system. And the now common transition of legislators and other govt workers to high paying private jobs to influence future legislation, contracts, etc.
            Ignore world events at your peril.

            Confirming the fact that world events Can and Do affect the US in a major way – I give you:

            – 911

            – Iraq war I & II

            – Afgan War

            – WWI


            – ISIS/ISIL

            – Ebola

            – Bird Flue

            – Oil and Gas prices

            – Ad infinitum

            And few know that our Constitution was largely copied from a European Document.

            Did you see where Independent 1(in here) actually said to me :

            “But again, why are you here?? There are not enough of us to influence anything, so why are you and your RWNJ friends even bothering to bother us?? Why are you against us having the right to share our own feelings on how things are going in America, without you RWNJ trolls putting in your 2 cents?? We’re really not interested, and your 2 cents isn’t going to influence anyone’s minds on this blogging site.”

            🙂 To which I responded:

            “I am here because “Group Think” is usually not “progressive” and can be dangerous.

            The free exchange of ideas between differing/competing views is a good thing and what this country was built on and stands for.”

          • Dominick Vila

            I share your concern about the influence of money in our political process and policy-making. Something must be done to end political donations, and lobbyists writing legislation that is later signed by our elected officials as their own. Civil servants moving to the private sector, especially those who join the companies whose contractor activities they over saw, is a major problem, even when they cannot work in the exact groups they dealt with before transitioning to the private sector.
            I have exchanged correspondence with Independent1 for a long time, and always found him to be very objective and polite. Unfortunately, as human beings we all have limits, and sometimes we exhibit emotions that are often out of character. It is not easy to remain objective or respectful when several people attack you personally, insult you, or ridicule your opinions. When something like that happens, it is not unusual for people who are normally very restrained and pragmatic, to react in ways they normally would not do.
            I could not agree more with the fact that the best decisions are those reached after pragmatic, unbiased, debate. One of the most valuable lessons we learn through personal experiences and age is the fact that nobody has an exclusive on wisdom, and that the best way to move forward is to learn to compromise. Ideological intransigence seldom produces anything constructive. I believe this is true, not only in politics, but in everything we do.

          • S.J. Jolly

            Said parallel, between “our Republican heroes, …” sounds like the sort of thing corporate management might not want to see in print.

          • Edward Canady

            JOLLY…just the sort of thing that you would not
            MOLON LABE

        • Edward Canady

          That would be a start…but if armed we do not have to “peer about fearfully”……except to look for those attempting to deny us our Right to actually BE armed.
          Molon Labe.

          • S.J. Jolly

            Peering about In al directions, least someone manage to sneak up behind you. You know, for those people who want to deny you the right to be armed, by prying your guns out of you still warm dead hands.

          • Edward Canady

            Are you not one of those?
            Your comment was nonsensical the 1st time…no better now.
            MOLON LABE

          • S.J. Jolly

            Ask a friend to explain my comments to you.

          • Edward Canady

            JOLLY Roger…I do not need any assistance in reading a nonsensical comment written by an Uber Lib gun grabber…you need to write more clearly.
            My interpretation was that you and your friends would kill me and then take my weapons….: I asked whether you were one of them…yes /no …not a real difficult question. Maybe one of your sneaky friends can interpret for you.
            Molon Labe.

          • Edward Canady

            JOLLY ole St Nick…I hope I get to them before the dogs or the gators are , hear or smell them.
            MOLON LABE.

      • Dominick Vila

        Would you mind telling us what your philosophical opinion on this issue is?

        • DEFENDER88

          Here is a theory I heard.
          It as a society/culture problem.
          Well the shooter did screw one thing up.
          If he had waited for a white cop to shoot him, he would have died a hero like the Ferguson thug Michael Brown. And we could have more riots and further along toward the race war he wanted.
          And the prevalent theory among all Blacks, (as demonstrated by the killer here) that ALL whites are racists. And therein lies a more fundamental problem than guns( ie the creation of a culture where Black men are praised for how bad-ass they are and how many women they sleep with and staying single but not for how good a father they have been). The demise of the Black father in the home is a more fundamental problem than guns. Until that changes, yes this story will continue to repeat and probably get worse.
          My compliments and admiration to the good Black men & women who are trying to fix this(and there are many) but we need more – a lot more.

          • Louis Allen

            Truer words never spoken.

          • RED

            Hey moron, where you think all those “black fathers” went? Huh stupid? My God, it makes me sick that my country is populated with the most ignorant morons to ever walk the Earth. And you could be their king!!

          • Edward Canady

            Where Did You go?

    • DEFENDER88

      Aside from the Headline shootings:
      For the past many years the following trends are true:
      Gun ownership and Gun Permit Issues are Way Up in the USA.
      While crime and gun crime rates continue to drop.
      Also, World Wide, The USA Homicide “Rate” is below average.
      Statistically and factually – The increase in USA gun ownership coincides with a falling crime rate and falling gun crime rate.
      Factually, in the USA – More guns corresponds with less crime.
      While I agree we need to do more about not letting the mental cases get guns(something most all of us agree with),
      If more gun laws made things safer Detroit would be the safest city on earth.

      • Dominick Vila
      • Dominick Vila
        • DEFENDER88

          This data includes suicides which I consider a personal choice that we should have the right too. The UN data rate is 6.9/100k World Wide and 5.4/100k for the US. re intentional homicides.
          ie the US is below the world average
          I don’t have time right now to go back and look up my other supporting US gun specific data sets. FBI data etc.
          2 interesting things with this/your data
          1-Even so, the US is nowhere near the top of this list(But many in here claim it is at the top)
          2-Interesting that Switzerland (a very low rate) has even more guns per capita than the US. But fewer Drug Gangs I would venture which greatly raises our rates.
          I know that drug gangs and their warfare account for some 80-90% of gun crime in this mid-size US City.
          I also know that the rate of gun crime by Conceal Carry ie Permit Holders in the US is virtually Zero. When was the last time you heard of a Permit Holder shooting anyone(except in self defense) and then it is rare?

          • Dominick Vila

            I can’t confirm whether or not the statistics I provided include suicides by gun shot, but I suspect that if they do the same applies to all the countries listed.
            Yes, Venezuela, Colombia, Guatemala, Swaziland, Yemen and a few other countries have more gun violence than we do, but I don’t find comfort in that. I prefer to compare the USA to Scandinavian countries, Germany, the Netherlands, France, the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and other such countries.
            Drug gangs are, indeed, a problem, but since most of the massacres that have taken place in the USA were carried out by people who are/were allegedly mentally disturbed, there is more to our gun violence problem than dependence on illicit drugs, and its consequences.

          • DEFENDER88

            Mass and School Shootings
            I have a previous post in here, on this thread, addressing this issue and what I see as the cause of it. You have seen it before – Psychotropic Drugs.
            ie re – what is wrong with our kids now days
            As I see it – The 1st step toward developing solutions.
            I try to ID the problem and the causes but don’t provide any solutions.
            I have thoughts and ideas but for now its hard enough to try to get some agreement on what the root problems are.
            Includes other Gun Free Zones.
            “Feel Good” things like banning Assault Rifles, mag capacities, etc will do little to nothing here.
            If you know anything about guns you know why.

            Horrible as those things are(school attacks) – I don’t see this as the worst/biggest problem concerning gun crime.
            That(schools and other mass shootings) is not where the vast majority of the gun crime is.
            Not saying it should not be addressed in a significant way – just that it represents a very small part of the killing.
            In fact it is a small percentage compared to the drug wars in our Cities.
            Still it should be addressed but in a logical effective way understanding there are other areas where the killing is much much more extensive – it is every day though so does not get the press of a school shooting.
            The Drug Wars
            The majority of gun crime and killing, by far, is the gang drug wars that ebb and flow on a continuing basis in most every city in the country. Largely from down in “The Hood”.
            I don’t have hard data on the percentages but in my mid-size city my calculations/observations say this gun crime problem composes some 80-90 of gun crime in this area. And I believe that is also true nation wide.

          • Dominick Vila

            There is no question that drugs, alcohol, violent video games and movies, and a culture that does not value life and rejects civility all contribute to gun violence. That does not mean, however, that we should ignore the lethal effect of not having effective gun laws to make it as difficult as possible for criminals, the mentally ill, and drug addicts to carry out their crimes. Making it easy for them to obtain a gun is an invitation to a massacre.
            I admit that no legislation will prevent people from obtaining a gun and/or committing a crime, but if it helps reduce gun violence, and mass murders, it is worth trying it.


          • DEFENDER88

            I and everyone I shoot competitions(IDPA) with will stand with you 100% on that.
            Keep guns out of hands that should not have them.
            IDPA is a sport but also Defensive gun fight training.

            PERMITS – This could be a good start:
            In our state(TN), to get a permit, you must submit to FBI criminal back check. Finger prints. Prove citizenship.
            Any past Domestic Violence charges will DQ you.
            Any past Felony charge will DQ you.
            And you must qualify/tested in and pass – the law, gun safety, safe shooting, and actual shooting qualifier.
            Including how to keep guns away from kids and others who should not have access(storage issues).
            ps Most all the safe handling rules etc are NRA developed and maintained. Even for Law Enforcement.
            One weak link is the Right to Privacy Laws that prevent DQ’ing mental cases.
            Requiring a permit and making an exception to the privacy laws to check on your mental status would be a good start.
            Not a “guarantee” against a mental case shooting but a good start.
            Take Tn permit requirements Nation Wide + mental case checks.

            The NRA resists requiring permits like ours etc because they fear the old adage – “give an inch and they will take a mile”.
            Which I have seen a lot of in here by the radical Left – Bloomberg, Fienstein, Mothers Against, etc.
            It all hurts us and does nothing to deter the bad guys and crazies. Unintended consequences?

            On mass shootings
            We “are” the ultimate, qualified “good guys” when it comes to Defensive shooting.
            But there are only say 50k of us nation wide. (Including IDPA, 3Gun, IPSC, USPSA, etal)
            Virtually all of us have permits. (And there are some 5mil-est permit holders nation wide.)
            And we in IDPA practice, seriously, home and mass shooting defensive scenarios.
            All walks of life, Even You would be comfortable with us – really.
            Unfortunately LEO’s don’t shoot with us much due, in part, to their huge ego issues ie they cant “win” or even close.
            In comparison, they really don’t shoot that well.
            And controlling “guns, gun types, mag capacities” etc will just limit us but not the criminals or mental cases.
            “We” “would” have a very good chance of stopping a mass shooter.
            Actually your best chance since Police cant get there in time.

            You think it is dangerous now?
            Interviews with criminals in jail have indicated they do not fear the “Police” they will be gone by the time they get there.
            They DO, very much, fear the armed citizen, especially those of us who can actually shoot.
            Yet some in here, on the “left”, have so indicated they want “everyone” totally dis-armed.
            Talk about unintended consequences – What will happen is only the bad guys will have weapons. Murderous chaos.

            I encourage you to find the closest gun club that has IDPA gun matches, go watch one, talk to the people there.
            It would be a real “eye opener” for you. You have no idea.
            NOT like you think – NO crazy, gun waving, chest thumping, gun nuts. Very safe, subdued and serious.
            Teachers, lawyers, engineers, carpenters, …. all highly trained with permits. No-one “wants” to ever “have” to shoot anyone. But we don’t want to be defenseless fish in a barrel either. So we train.
            You cant even un-holster your gun unless you are on the shooting line alone with a Supervising Safety Officer.
            You would be way safer there watching than most anywhere else.
            And come away with a new and valuable perspective.

          • Dominick Vila

            I can just imagine how a police officer must feel when they stop and approach a vehicle for a traffic violation. Or go to someone’s house when a disturbance is reported.
            The problem is that is not easy to identify people who are suffering from mental illness when no treatment has been provided. Let alone identify a person who for reasons known only to that person plans to murder someone or carry out a massacre.

          • DEFENDER88

            Looks like we may now need to modify our Mental Health laws re Medical Right to Privacy.

            I would suggest make this info available only to the responsible Govt permit issuing authorities.

            Including firearms instructors who teach permit classes, etc.

            Their right to privacy is still protected(publicly) and our need to not have them armed is at least mitigated to an extent.

            Perhaps deny permits for the full household of the mentally ill person.

            When the police go to a house, stop a car etc they would have a record/notice of a potential mental problem.

            If a mental person tries to get a permit the firearms instructor/authorities will be aware.

            And maybe all gun stores thru the NICS which is already in place and all gun stores use.

            ie they would not be allowed to buy a gun.

            This system is already in place,(to deny Felons, Domestic Abusers, etc) but does not include Mental Health Status Info.

            Emblem of the NICS

            The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is a U.S. system for determining if prospective firearms or explosives buyers are eligible to buy. It was mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Law) of 1993 and launched by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI

            Not ideal and problematic but better than nothing.

          • Dominick Vila

            The same applies to people who use prescription behavior altering drugs, and any kind of medication that may result in the judgment of a person becoming compromised. In this case, pharmacies, and the doctors that prescribe those kinds of RX, should make the information available to the applicable law enforcement agencies. Unfortunately, every time the issue of gun control comes up it ends up with discussions about disarmament. The goal, for every person concerned over the incidence of gun violence in the USA, should be focusing on potential ways to make it as difficult as possible for criminals and the mentally ill to acquire or have access to guns.
            Laws alone may not solve the problem, but effective and enforceable laws are a step in the right direction, and are long overdue.

          • DEFENDER88

            Most “responsible” gun owners would agree.

            If we could get the anti-gun lobby to agree on that we could probably make progress here.

            Instead of wasting all the time, effort and money trying to ban guns, mag capacities, etc.

            Which are not the root cause problems.

          • S.J. Jolly

            One far-out solution to the problem of mass murder gun violence: A SCOTUS ruling that the Second Ammendment applies only to muzzle-loading flintlock muskets and pistols, the types of firearms present at the time the Constitution as ratified. Hard to kill many quickly if one has to work to get off 3 rounds a minute.

          • DEFENDER88

            The Patriots were using the most advanced arms of the day.

            Some even more advanced than the Brits.

            And they were sent home with them and told and given the right to keep them.

            The 2nd Amend does not say Muskets.

            And there is a reason they did not say Muskets.

            Interesting how people think they are smarter than Jefferson, Madison, Washington and the drafters.

            Prove to me ALL the nut jobs, gang bangers, thieves, home invaders, etc have only muskets and I will consider it.

            Until then, I want(actually I insist on access to) at least equal power.

          • S.J. Jolly

            Some patriots were armed with rifled muzzleloaders, yes. Which had more range than British muskets, but were slower to load, and were not fitted to mount bayonets. Fine for snipping, but not for stand-up firefights.
            The Second Amendment says “arms”. Doesn’t specify what type.
            A decade or so ago, Australia banned all semi-automatic firearms. Had the effect of raising the black market price of an AR-15, for example, from $1500 to $74,000. Too expensive for most criminals. Plus, anyone possessing a semi-auto gets a lot of unwanted police attention.
            Do you really need military-grade firepower to protect your home and family? If yes, you might want to rethink your choice of enemies. And, unless you live on a big, walled estate, stray military-power bullets are going to be a danger to your neighbors.
            For home defense, a shotgun, maybe with bayonet attachment, and a sturdy stock, makes far more sense. With kids around, better a good baseball bat.

          • DEFENDER88

            You might consider you probably don’t know near as much about guns and shooting as you think you do.

            I am retired but still qualified as a State and DHS Certified Firearms Instructor.

            Range Officer and Defense of the Home Instructor.

            ie I am certified to teach Permit Classes. But don’t much any more.

            I only teach some on a volunteer basis now.

            By trade I am an engineer.

            And I help train some local Police and Sheriffs in shooting.

            And others who want to learn competition shooting.

            Which is a few levels above Police Shooting.

            I also shoot Competition Combat Pistol and 3Gun(Like SWAT on steroids).

            I think I have a pretty good idea of what I might need.

            Probably more than you.

            Probably a lot more than you.

            True the low grade Hoodlums usually go cheap – HiPoint, Sat Pm Specials, etc. Maybe a S&W VE(cheaper semi-auto) but a decent gun. But even HIPoint is now making a gun much like a MP5(Used widely by SWAT, FBI, more).

            But a lot of the drug gangs are using AK’s, Mac 10’s, etc. some in full auto.

            Can you guarantee they will not come here or to your place? Ever?

            Also if the world does go to hell, like many think, it will be a very dangerous place.

            And some firepower will be necessary to survive.

            I have already experienced a version of that where I grew up in the mountains.

            Already been shot at and in more than one gun fight.

            I can “testify”:

            Better to have it and not need it.

            Than need it and not have it.

            I would already be dead.

            Plus I shoot most all mine for sport and competitions.

            A note on Ball Bats – If you can hit him with a bat you have already lost the fight in letting him get too close.

            As for shooting neighbors, we train a lot to avoid that, plus avoiding other hits on non-threats.

            From what you have said – You really don’t know what you are talking about.

            Not trying to criticize you, mainly – trying to advise you, you need some certified training.

            Carry permit would be a good “start”.

            Also see NRA Personal Defense Network.

            Your closest IDPA Director.


          • S.J. Jolly

            O.k., so you are a highly qualified and safe person to have high-powered firearms. How about the drugged-up friend of your son, who comes to your home, steals some of your weapons, and goes on a killing spree against his enemies, real and imagined ?

          • DEFENDER88

            The short answer is “training”.

            1st – No one can get to “my” guns. Even a police sweep here would be very difficult to find them.

            A kid getting access to or someone stealing my guns – not likely.

            On the larger problem of this as a nation wide issue

            Which is probably more to your point

            The short answer is “training”.

            If not just a permit class – where (at least in this state)(TN) that issue is covered, discussed, with recommendations etc.

            A change I would make in how it is done in the US:

            “I” do feel that if you are going to buy a gun(any gun) you should be “1st” trained in its use, safe storage, etc.

            Or immediately thereafter – but it should be required.

            And for conceal carry weapons – you should be required to go thru a permit class and get permitted.

            Get the training, take the written and shooting tests, etc. – ie Get trained.

            Like in my State (TN) for conceal carry.

            But I would carry that over to cover all firearms.

            And no I don’t make money at that now.

            And I would include training on keeping and using a gun in the home.

            Like you say – most don’t have a clue. And it is a problem.

          • hicusdicus

            What is a high powered weapon as opposed to low power weapon???? What about medium powered weapons?? What kind of weapon do you have? A sharp tongue does not count.

          • S.J. Jolly

            I’ll let DEFENDER88 answer your questions. Or not. He probably knows exact legal definitions.

          • hicusdicus

            How many walls it goes through depends on the projectile design. If you are anti gun, don’t have one in your house. I agree with your sentiments. My preferences are that I don’t want to be hurt by anyone and I am totally incapable of defending myself. You do it your way and I will do it my way. If you really want to be safe, stay out of automobiles and away from traffic.

          • DEFENDER88

            I probably should not say all this but

            Hope this helps.

            re guns, walls, hp’s, safety

            So a warning about walls.

            It also depends on what type wall it is.

            Sheet Rock or Concrete Block/Brick.

            “Generally” a pistol round(9mm, 40, 45 cal etc) will shoot thru sheet rock and 2×4’s easy but not concrete block.

            An AR Rifle can shoot thru even concrete block. May take 2-3 shots but not that hard to do.

            A 9mm “could”, eventually, but would take say 5-10 shots, have to “eat” your way thru.

            Some other things, especially for those who shoot but are not really trained, but “think” they know but dont:

            Even a lowly 22 can shoot thru “several sheet rock walls”. And siding.

            And I have shot a 22 thru 3 2×4’s

            AND a 9mm can shoot thru several 2×4’s – exa using an inside house corner for “cover” may not help you.

            In my testing alone I have shot thru 3 – 2×4’s even with 9mm hollow points.

            A brick or block wall is normally going to stop a one shot 9mm(ie a pistol round)

            An AR type rifle(.223 in/5.56mm) is a magnitude or 2 above this.

            I have shot thru 8 2×4’s, a 6in tree etc with my AR.

            An AR will shoot thru 1/4 in steel plate. Pistol rounds will not.

            Even a 22 can shoot thru a car door. Its just sheet metal. ie they do not provide “cover”.

            A 223 thru the whole car.

            A “high power” say .308, 7.62mm(normal AK round) into an engine block.

            For “cover”, using a car, you must get behind the engine or wheels.

            All(even 22) can travel a mile or more depending on trajectory.

            So if you have only sheetrock and siding house – shooting a pistol or even a 22 you can shoot thru your walls into the neighborhood.

            If you have Block and Brick walls – not likely.

            How to stop this – again – TRAINING.

            One reason why so many who are untrained might be best off with a shotgun with Bird Shot #7 – 8.

            BUT – a Shotgun with 00 Buck, acts like a group of 9mm pistol rounds.

            And they are hard to maneuver in a house and they don’t spread as much as you think at those close ranges.

            At 20ft you might only get a 2in spread!

            And hard for most women to shoot – recoil problem.

            Because of these things:

            “One” of the NRA safety rules (which are the US National Gun Safety Standards even Police MUST know by heart) is “Know your target and what is beyond”.

            Another NRA Rule taught is “Keep your guns safe from those who should not have access”.

            Kids, mental cases, untrained, et al.

            Note: These NRA Rules are REQUIRED, set in concrete, taught/drilled 1st and over and over and……..over.

            By me and ALL Certified Instructors.

            SO – even with just a 9mm pistol round it is possible to go thru several sheet rock walls to even the “next” neighbor-hood over.

            This is also why we stress to NEVER shoot a round into the air – no caliber.

            Don’t want to hurt or kill say the kid in a sand box 1mi away.

            This is why I stress TRAINING so much – BTW most of which comes from the NRA. They have and keep all the National standards.

            “I” have taught and trained against this so much it would be near impossible for me to do this now ie hit a neighbor.

            Another “warning” about even handling a gun “down stairs” – watch about even pointing the gun “up” – duh.

            Yes it will shoot thru 3/4″ plywood floor/ceiling, easy. And maybe out the roof into the hood.

            “Oops I didn’t know it was loaded” – GET TRAINED.

            Hollow Points

            Also to know – for self defense, we normally use hollow points – they expand on impact with a body and thus much less chance of shooting-thru the threat to a non-threat behind. That a “major” reason for their use.

          • hicusdicus

            Use a .410 revolver loaded with number 6. It with end the problem and not go thru walls. The last two rds can be federal 000 buck or Hornady 41 cal. ballistic tip slugs in case they won’t cooperate and be still. I have been reading the more knowledgeable instructors are saying the .410 revolver is the best hand gun for personal civilian self defense. The next thing is to read the book, Self Defense Laws in 52 states and finish it with the book Armed Response. Why do these anti gun people think nothing will ever happen to them????????????????? Do they not understand human nature?

          • DEFENDER88

            I have been talking about the link between mass shootings and pshco drugs for a while now – check out this short video that explains it better than I can

          • Edward Canady

            Wow…what a Stupidly Ignorant. Response….mental masturbation.
            MOLON LABE.

          • hicusdicus

            Military grade?????? Cartridges are what determines the speed of a bullet. not the gun. The gun only holds the cartridge. The evil AR 15 is basically a .22 cal rifle. Military grade usually refers to full automatic which require special permits and a lot of money. Before you form activist opinions try and get some knowledge on the subject. Nobody wants to stop you from not owning a gun. Lets just leave it at that.

          • Edward Canady

            Oh , now that was “JOLLY” good… But Stupidly Ignorant, nevertheless..
            Molon Labe.

          • S.J. Jolly

            You want me to write more clearly? O.K., you clearly have a very low opinion of anyone who disagrees with you.

          • hicusdicus


          • DEFENDER88

            DOM I have been talking about the linkage of Psyco Drugs and mass shootings for a while now. Check out this short video that explains it more than I have been able too.


          • Dominick Vila


          • S.J. Jolly

            Problem with a ban on crazies owning firearms is coming up with a workable definition of crazy. Medical experts argue the question In court all the time. Effectively, if you’ve ever been in a mental institution you’re considered crazy, while you might actually be more rational than many people who never have.

          • DEFENDER88

            As for the details of the mental health status of anyone,(dis-qualifiers etc) seems that should be clarified by mental health pros to establish proto-calls, etc.
            Whatever is needed.
            With input from other affected parties.
            On the larger problem of guns and the killing and mental health overall
            I would handle it in a Democtatic/Republic way. Much the same way the Health Insurance Issue was studied. ie Obamacare as they say.

            This is a national problem that is affecting everyone and all parts of the country.

            I would establish a bi-partisan commission or panel or whatever you want to call it but a group of professionals in the field of mental health, and all the other affected or concerned parties that could have input into the problems and issues. Including Mental Health pros, patient advocate groups, Law Enforcement, Insurance, FBI, NRA, Anti-Gun people, School Reps, Drug Co’s and pharmacies, et al.
            It would be a “bear” to organize it into a logical matrix of some type but could be done.

            Charge them with identifying what the problems are and making recommendations as to how to best mitigate them, the cost and how to pay for it, etc. on a national level.

          • S.J. Jolly

            One possibly more workable solution: Require that all applicants for a firearm permit be active in some face-to-face social organization. Violent narcissist alienated young men (and women) would have a real problem with that.

          • DEFENDER88

            A social organization for violent, narcissist young men and women who want a gun permit might help?
            I am thinking maybe the US Marine Corp Boot Camp? 🙂 That might straighten their young asses out?
            Get some free(actually paid) training in the process, with a rifle anyway. And a good, quite serious, and probably much needed dose of discipline. And it would definitely be “face to face”:)

            On a more realistic level – one good thing about permit applicants (in this state anyway TN) – they must take an “8hr carry class”, qualify in shooting and interface with an instructor like me. And we can DQ them if necessary. Not foolproof but its a start and works to a point, extremely rare for a permit holder to commit a gun crime.
            I would like to see an actual mental qualifier test given as part of the permit qualifier course.
            What were you thinking?

          • S.J. Jolly

            You are a cockeyed optimist regarding mental health science. “.. a group of professionals in the field of mental health …” You would be lucky to get them to agree on anything beyond what day of the week it currently is.

          • S.J. Jolly

            Your reply was off target a bit. Not an organization FOR violent narcissist alienated young men (and women), no. The demonstrated ability to get along in a social group for some time. Including firearms training classes, yes.

          • RED

            So what? So in one “gun club” or shooting club or whatever you wanna call, no lunatics have gone nuts YET! And this is what informs or I guess I should say mis-informs you on gun issues?

          • DEFENDER88

            Actually it is an international organization with uniform standards and rules. And many participating gun clubs in the US.

            Fine, be confrontational with people who are trying to reduce gun violence, stop mass murders, etc so “no one” gets shot or hurt. See how that works out.

            ps As a State and DHS Certified Firearms Instructor – On a volunteer basis – I help train police to shoot. How much experience do you have with guns and gun issues?

          • hicusdicus

            Defender, you are having a discussion with a person who talks high minded baby talk. He mimics things he has pickup from articles he read in the doctors office. He has no real grip on what he is talking about. He is an armed chair clairvoyant,

        • Edward Canady

          Now that is a real reliable source of FACTS (not)….where anyone can submit opinions and someone can alter on a whim.

  • sacul1

    I knew someone would end up making the stupid statement that if the reporters had been armed it never would of happened. Surprisingly (though by now shouldn’t have been) Donald Trump was the one to say that. That tired arguement which defies logic is nonsense, the reporters could have had AK-47s strapped across their chests and the results would have been the same. Anyone that shouldn’t own a gun but does will commit acts of mayhem and until some sensible laws are enacted this type of story will keep repeating.

  • William Aiken

    Ms. Tucker failed to acknowledge that there wasn’t anything in the gunman’s past the would have precluded him from obtaining the gun he legally purchased to used to commit these murders. The left only wants to have an emotional debate on gun control immediately after a gun-related tragedy to avoid having a serious and sober conversation. The left knows it can’t win a rational debate.

    • S.J. Jolly

      You should try actually meeting and talking with members of the left. Vice getting your opinion of them from Fox News and right-wing websites.

      • William Aiken

        On the issue of gun control, my opinions are based on the leftists’ emotional arguments and reactions that wouldn’t have prevented the shooting in question or most other similar shootings. The fact is evil scum like this shooter exist in the world. Legislating sweeping broad changes due to the actions of a single narcissistic fiend will end up affecting millions of law abiding citizens’ right to protect themselves. This type of solution is championed by the left. It’s idiotic and an overreach by the government.

        • Independent1

          Just let these statistics sink in for a minute. In England, which bans guns, the average number of people dying from gunshots each year is 35 – and that includes suicides. While in America, 80 people die from gunshots EVERY DAY.

          Adjusting for the fact that England has about 1/5 the U.S. population gives us this annual comparison; 400 deaths in England compared to 30,000 in America each year. And the main difference is – guns abound in America and are banned in England – so 29,600 Americans are dying each year just so idiot gun nuts like you can play with your toy!! Is that ridiculous OR WHAT???

          (Since only 35 people are dying from gunshots, that means that even the crooks aren’t getting them to kill people with them like you idiots like to pretend would happen here if they were banned!!! Kind of makes you think, doesn’t it!!!

  • Kurt CPI

    So much irony here. Psychologists have been saying for years that exposure to violence desensitizes us. Those of us who have been around since before the graphic depictions of killing and mayhem in movies, video games and television, not to mention the publishing of this sort of horrendous realism, have seen ourselves desensitized to the level of disbelief. How much more impact does this have on generations that are exposed to this from birth? Yet it’s OK to deny alcohol and tobacco to minors because of their devastating effects on health. It’s OK to deny heroin and cocaine to the entire population because of health and social degradation that is undeniable. Yet it’s a violation of civil rights to shield people from explicit violence depicted in entertainment media. The author shares the statistic that between 1966 and 2010 there were nearly 300 mass shootings in the US. She fails to mention that nearly 1/3 of those were in the last decade of that range That’s averages out about 4 per year in the 45 years between 1966 and 2000 and about 10 per year between 2000 and 2010. People owned guns throughout the entire period, so since that hasn’t changed. And since the population hasn’t increased threefold, there must be more to it than gun ownership.
    Certainly we must keep guns out of the hands of crazies. Unfortunately, the perpetrator in this case would almost certainly have passed the background check.
    We have to stop glorifying the gangster motif. We need families that pass the values of humanity, not personal gain at any cost, to the next generation. This “nothing sacred” attitude of exists from leadership in politics, business and finance all the way to the broken remnant of what was once the American family. What a shame.

    • hicusdicus

      You are so wrong I don’t even know where to start, so I won’t. Trying to get you to understand would be a total waste of time.

      • Kurt CPI

        Which part did I get wrong? That decades of exposure to violence as entertainment and the philosophical notion that revenge = justice have turned us into a more violent society? Or was it the part about keeping guns out of the hands of the deranged? Perhaps you don’t believe that values that make us human were developed by centuries of refinement with family values being on the front lines of that social evolution? You won’t start because you have no footing on which to begin.

        • hicusdicus

          Everybody at some time of their life become deranged some people more regular than others. How does family values, survival and self defense not fit on the same page? You are to ignorant to understand. Go watch a mickey mouse cartoon.

          • Kurt CPI

            You are too ignorant to know the difference between to, too and two.

          • hicusdicus

            You are right , now go back to watching cartoons.

    • Insinnergy

      I think it’s pretty simple:
      1) High gun ownership (in the worst states)
      2) Mythology around the second amendment giving carrying a lethal weapon an aura of legality and righteousness.
      3) High levels of religious belief
      4) Ignoring mental health of the populace and leaving them to fend for themselves in the care of their family or on the streets.
      5) American exceptionalism and obsession with celebrity over substance.
      6) Glorification of guns, violence, and solving issues with bullets.
      7) Constant pounding by the GOP and NRA of the message that we are in the “End Times”, the country is screwed and death and destruction are just around the corner… Terrorism or Ebola will get you… and the only thing that makes you safe is a gun.
      8) The concerted effort to defund, remove and create legislation explicitly stopping Government agencies from gathering of gun statistics and information about gun violence. Along with this is the completely appalling situation where Police Departments do not have to report gun related incidents to a Federal authority.
      9) The strong push behind the complete lie that more guns, in every area of life, schools, churches, movie theatres… make you safer. If you believe this you are a complete idiot and incapable of basic logical thought.

      Or to put it another way…
      America has a gun fetish. If you could sleep with your guns you would.
      Evidence? (Borrowed from John Oliver):
      – One failed shoe bomb… and you mobilise an Army of TSA agents to search every single person getting on a plane in order to stop people dying.
      – A actual gun massacre of young children at an Elementary School… and years later you still have done exactly nothing.

      • Kurt CPI

        Well I agree on some but you lost me at times.
        * In your #2 point, the second amendment absolutely does make gun ownership legal. The righteousness, if and where it exists, may well be an aura – I’ll leave that to people who can see them.
        * #5 – I couldn’t agree more. I’d say American obsession with their egos and all fluffy things, celebrity being just one.
        * #6 – This comes almost exclusively from entertainment media.
        * #7 – End times or not, owning a gun for protection is not a bad idea. You’ll certainly be at a disadvantage if an armed criminal enters your home if you don’t have equal force. Does that mean you should carry it with you at all times? Of course not, that’s ridiculous. This isn’t Dodge City in the wild west.
        * #9 – I think “strong push” is a stretch. There’s a fringe faction that believe this. In that large area within the bounds of reality and common sense, lies the acknowledgment that law-abiding people who legally own guns don’t commit any higher volume of crime than non gun owners.

      • Edward Canady

        What a pile of horse apples. Worse than the Pope’s pompous bloviating about political matter, in lieu of spreading God’s message…and saving souls.
        Are you a Cardinal..not a ball player or a bird..yet ?? Competing for the job ?
        Sleep with my gums..why he’ll yes…I thought all honest folks did…THAT is usually when the BAD guys show up.
        Molon Labe

  • S.J. Jolly

    One solution to the problem of violent, narcissist young men seeking fame: Coliseum games, where-in one violent young man goes against another. (Alternatively, one gang vs. another). Winner gets a DVD of the contest, some cash, and 15 minutes of fame. Loser get a cheap funeral. And society gets one less violent individual on the streets, at minimal cost.

  • David

    So Cynthia, what “sensible gun laws” do you propose? Molon labe!

  • jointerjohn

    I don’t here many pondering the fact that these shootings are committed by overwhelmingly male assailants in a society in which females are the majority.
    Women get fired from jobs, suffer injustices and have to cope with the same pressures as men. What is it that is wrong with our boys?

    • DEFENDER88

      I looked into this about a year ago. Did a thorough study of all school shootings, etc.
      Wipepedia has a lot of info on the school shootings.
      I went there and other sources like FBI data etc.
      Here is what I found that is going on now and different from what was done than say 30yr ago.
      Boys now are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed anti-depressants.
      This started in the late 70’s about the same time we emptied the institutions in favor of treating mental cases at home with the new designer drugs.
      To save money I guess. Not to mention the deplorable state of the institutions.

      Also same for returning vets diagnosed with PTSD also prescribed anti-depressants.

      Look deep into the info on mass shootings, usually by young white male 16-26yo on antidepressants. Typically – Commit mass murder then suicide.
      A pattern develops:
      Sandy Hook
      on and on
      Young white male on anti-depressants.
      Also Vet suicide rates are at record levels.
      Both groups prescribed anti-depressants and both committing suicide at record levels.

      Again most all – Young white males on anti-depressants.


      ps The last Ft Hood mass shooter was a returning vet on anti-depressants because of PTSD. The 1st one was an Army Officer MD, but also an Arab Jihadist mental health pro???

      • Independent1

        Come on NRA troll, take your mealy mouthed NRA lies somewhere else. I’m tired of hearing these flat out NRA lies about more guns will mean less violence and a gun will protect you. What outright lies and rot.

        Fact is that the more guns the more violence and death. And a gun is by far more of a liability than it will ever be a means of self protection. Studies have proven that carry a gun, increases the average Americans’ probability of being shot by almost 5 times; and the same holds true for owning a gun in a home. Bringing a gun into a home increases the probability by almost 5 times that someone in that home will be killed by a gun – often the gun owned by the home.

        My statement about more guns means more violence and death is even proven by the high gun ownership in Red States, where a study has shown that more police officers are killed on duty in the red states with the highest gun ownership (like happened even today when a police officer was gunned down while pumping gas).

        See this article from Vox:

        In states with more guns, more police officers are killed on duty

        The study, published in the American Journal of Public Health, looked at federal data for firearm ownership and homicides of police officers across the US over 15 years. It found that states with more gun ownership had more cops killed in homicides: Every 10 percent increase in firearm ownership correlated with 10 additional officers killed in homicides over the 15-year study period.

        And a study published in the NYTimes about the violence in Central America, proves without question that more guns does not equal less violence or less murders – in fact it’s the complete opposite:

        See this from the NYTimes:

        More Guns = More Killing

        Indeed, the N.R.A.’s solution to the expansion of gun violence in America has been generally to advocate for the more widespread deployment and carrying of guns. I recently visited some Latin American countries that mesh with the N.R.A.’s vision of the promised land, where guards with guns grace every office lobby, storefront, A.T.M., restaurant and gas station. It has not made those countries safer or saner.

        Despite the ubiquitous presence of “good guys” with guns, countries like Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Colombia and Venezuela have some of the highest homicide rates in the world.

        “A society that is relying on guys with guns to stop violence is a sign of a society where institutions have broken down,” said Rebecca Peters, former director of the International Action Network on Small Arms. “It’s shocking to hear anyone in the United States considering a solution that would make it seem more like Colombia.”

        As guns proliferate, legally and illegally, innocent people often seem more terrorized than protected.

        In Guatemala, riding a public bus is a risky business. More than 500 bus drivers have been killed in robberies since 2007, leading InSight Crime, which tracks organized crime in the Americas, to call it “the most dangerous profession on the planet.” And when bullets start flying, everyone is vulnerable: in 2010 the onboard tally included 155 drivers, 54 bus assistants, 71 passengers and 14 presumed criminals. Some were killed by the robbers’ bullets and some by gun-carrying passengers.

        And I could post at least1/2 a dozen more similar articles which have shown the same thing – the more guns, the more violence, crime and murders!! The only solution to America’s current mass murder problems and even the more than 11,000 murders and more than 19,000 suicides is to one way or another reduce the number of guns in America. One solution may be to require that all gun owners carry liability insurance, which would probably be so costly, that only those who seriously thing they need a gun would own one. And as has been pointed out by other posters, our cowardice Congress needs to pass laws requiring background checks for all gun purchases, no matter where; and putting restrictions on the types of guns the average American can own.

        • DEFENDER88

          After trying, several times, to have a reasoned discussion with you on this issue, and finding it not possible –

          I am beginning to tire of your Lies, name calling and mis/dis information from small one state studies and other questionable and agenda driven sources. And the fact that I am speaking from actual experience with guns and life and death and you are regurgitating “hear-say”. So FU2
          There is a plus side:
          I am however glad you are against owning a gun. In your case, considering your belligerent, provocative, aggressive, bullying, red neck type mentality it would be a danger to society and probably your family.
          In fact – I would put you on a mental “watch” list.
          You gun grabbers are right about one thing, there “are” those who should really not own or have access to a gun.

          • Max_

            The Dependent1 is the resident troll at The National Memo..
            You won’t be finding any reasoned discussion with this MORON..

          • DEFENDER88

            I would not bother except – what I want to warn people in here about is this:
            His “facts” may not be based on good data assumptions and interpretations.
            Especially when he interpolates across data sets.
            He does not like me because I called him out some time ago about his mis-interpolations between and across data sets in various statistical studies that he was using to support his arguments.
            I took the time to dig into his data, assumptions, etc and take a close look vs the arguments he made.
            An objective and honest person would appreciate knowing these things.
            Now I am not qualified to “teach” Statistics (at the Masters level) but I have taken several Masters Level courses in it at a large state university for my Masters Degree and at least know most of the basics/rules of what you can and cannot do.
            What concerns me is he is often putting out bad information as if it is true and verified.
            And he has used a lot of small, agenda driven/partison and 1 state studies and assumed they carry over nation wide – which is usually questionable “at best”.
            I think he believes it, but just does not understand(nor accept) it may be wrong due to these misinterpretations based on erroneous assumptions especially concerning items(data points and sets, etc) of variability, dependent variables and independent variables, the nature and the inter-relationships, dependencies and effects/affects thereof, or not, especially with small agenda driven and 1 state etc studies.

          • Independent1

            It’s got nothing to do with interpreting statistics you nitwit, it’s all ABOUT REALITY!!

            REALITY IS that the high gun ownership RED STATES lead the nation in EVERY SINGLE INDICATION OF VIOLENCE AND DEATH. All five of the most violent states in America are Red States with high percentages of gun ownership. ALL ten of the states that lead the nation in homicides are states governed by the GOP with high gun ownership!!

            It’s got nothing to do with ‘interpreting statistics”!! It’s all about Reality!! And your BS about statistics is just one diversion from letting people SEE THE FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Otto Greif

            A lot of blacks live in red states.

          • DEFENDER88

            Maybe the Red States should learn from States like Missouri(Ferguson) and Md. (Baltimore) about how to foster good race relations and reduce “violence and death”.

          • kkirkham1

            Looks to me that you passed Trolling 101, with very high grades.

          • Independent1

            And by the way. Why is the NRA sending you out to troll on the NM?? With the very low number of honest bloggers here, what do you think you’re accomplishing?? None of us are saying anything that Gabby Gifford, Bernie Sanders and any number of other politicians who are looking to provide more control over gun ownership aren’t saying. You’re sanctimonius nonsensical diatribes are not going to change any honest posters minds here. So why are you bothering?? Can’t you just leave us alone!!

            I tend to be a little more vehement about my dislike for people like you, because I just don’t like people who intentionally go about doing things that I know and they know only end up with more people dying. Or the rabid followers of those people. I just can’t live with people who don’t care that others are dying just so they can further their own agenda.

            But again, why are you here?? There are not enough of us to influence anything, so why are you and your RWNJ friends even bothering to bother us?? Why are you against us having the right to share our own feelings on how things are going in America, without you RWNJ trolls putting in your 2 cents?? We’re really not interested, and your 2 cents isn’t going to influence anyone’s minds on this blogging site.

          • DEFENDER88

            I am here because “Group Think” is usually not “progressive” and can be dangerous.

            The free exchange of ideas between differing/competing views is a good thing and what this country was built on and stands for.

            And good people have died for.

            I expect to get ridiculed by those like you, but the free exchange of competing ideas and positions with those who are more thoughtful is worth it.

          • Independent1

            That may be true, if you and your RWNJ friends actual stuck to the truth, but you don’t. You just finished a post to Dominick a little bit ago with this flat out lie:

            “I also know that the rate of gun crime by Conceal Carry ie Permit Holders in the US is virtually Zero. When was the last time you heard of a Permit Holder shooting anyone(except in self defense) and then it is rare?”

            I can think of several incidents just off the top of my head where concealed carry people whipped out their gun and killed someone on the fly:

            The first that comes to mind is an incident in a Florida movie theater where a guy whipped out his concealed carry and shot a guy sitting in front of him just because he threw popcorn at him.

            Another incidence was a double homicide on the highway where two guys got into road rage and came out of their cars shooting – killing each other.

            Another was an incident just last week here in Maine, where a guy with a concealed carry came across his ex wife and her family and blew them all away – I believe there were six of them.

            And I’m sure if I spent a few minutes going through some back email’s I get I could list 10-20 others that have occurred within the past month.

            Are you even sane enough to realize that even law enforcement officers end up killing numerous people – sometimes by accident and many times on purpose just because they have a gun strapped to their side???

            Sorry, but concealed carry is just an invitation for some hot head to pull out a gun and kill someone when otherwise, he may have punched them in the nose or just walked away.

            Sorry, but distorting the truth and outright lying to does not do anything for advancing any discussion.

          • Independent1

            And did you even look at one of those links Dominick posted for you?? One which highlights that in England, where guns are banned, 35 people die of gunshots each year and that includes suicides. While it says 80 people die each day in America. To be a fair comparison, it really should be about 400/yr die in England (adjusting for the fact that the population of England is 1/5 that of the U.S.) to 30,000/yr in America.

            Let me repeat that 400/yr in England to 30,000/yr in America – and that includes suicides. Which means the easy access to guns even greatly increases the suicide rate – because thousands of people each year will kill themselves with a gun, who wouldn’t have committed suicide if a gun wasn’t available.
            Many people would n’t attempt suicide if they weren’t assured that their attempt would end up with them dead and very few other methods of suicide besides a gun – gives people that assurance.

          • Max_

            He’s just a troll, denial and maddening obfuscation are his tools…

          • Independent1

            Look sonny boy, IT’S YOU THAT’S THE TROLL!! I’ve been blogging on this site long before you even knew there was a National Memo. Why are you even here?? No one here is interested in one thing that your distorted mind conjours up. So why don’t you go over an troll on Yahoo, or some other blogging site where you might find someone who’s not a troll that actually agrees with you????

          • Max_

            You write a heavily slanted BS story and then come and troll your own blog, You are a coward, a P O S, you try and run off anyone that has any sense at all.. All you want to here is lock step Stepford Democrats that will echo all the foolishness that you assert.. I think I am going to start to invite some of my friends to visit your site, this should get very interesting very soon… See ya… {;~)

          • Independent1

            Get off your sanctimonius high horse you worthless piece of crap, no nonpolitical organization in the U.S. is more absolutely disgusting than the NRA and that includes you!! Willing to keep up one fabrication and lie after another as thousands of Americans die each year, and over 100,000 are injured, all because the NRA has to continue to spew lie after lie just so it can keep suckering in members and promoting the sales of guns for it’s gun manufacturing source of continuing funds.

            Once again it’s ALL ABOUT MONEY even at the expense of thousands upon thousands of Americans’ lives – lie after lie after lie just keeps spewing out of your mouth and that of the idiot NRA leadership!!!

            My only consolation is, you and you’re ink will eventually get yours and butn in Hell for eternity for the lies and killing you’re doing!!

    • Whatmeworry

      Its the everyone deserves a trophy liberal nonsense that keeps boys in diapers until they are 30

    • Edward Canady

      Raising entitlement babies as single parents ??

  • Whatmeworry

    Just another black terrorist

    • Insinnergy

      Just another poorly prepared troll.

      • Whatmeworry

        Really?? You think Tucker isn’t

  • Louis Allen

    Cynthia Tucker Haynes, you obscene ydiot who calls Dr. Ben Carson “… the GOP’s latest black mascot, a court jester, a minstrel show.”.
    You dumbass identify this killer only as “A disgruntled former employee of the station…”
    What you idiot (conveniently and hypocritically) forget to mention is that this murderer was a black man and a homosexual who had this vendetta against these innocent white young reporters. He wasn’t just a “disgruntled former employee…”
    If the 2 reporters had been black and the murderer had been white all hell would have broken loose.
    Go back to your cockroaches nest, Cynthia.