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Monday, March 25, 2019

The Confederate battle flag’s long period of flying free in the South might be coming to an end.

After last week’s massacre of nine black churchgoers by a young white man who proudly displayed the Confederate and other flags of racist regimes, citizens, politicians, and pundits are calling for it to be resigned, taken down from state grounds, and shuttered behind glass in a museum as a relic of history.

South Carolina is not the only state that displays the flag prominently. Georgia removed the Confederate portion of its state flag in 2001, and in 2003 the flag was completely redesigned.

In Alabama, the Confederate flag was removed from the state Capitol in 1994, although parts of its state flag represent aspects of the Confederate cross.

And of course, Dixie’s stars and bars are embedded into the design of Mississippi’s state flag – the only state flag that currently maintains the Confederate emblem, and now there is a movement to change that.

In 2001, 64 percent of Mississippi voters decided in a ballot measure to keep the emblem on the flag, where it has been since 1894. But with a resurgent nationwide movement and what some see as a more progressive state, lawmakers believe that that could change. Legislative Black Caucus chairman Sen. Kenny Wayne Jones (D-Canton) told the Clarion-Ledger that it was “possible” that the next legislative session could take up the issue when it starts in January.

A MoveOn.org petition, started by Jennifer Gunter, a two-time Ole Miss graduate and now a PhD student in American history at the University of South Carolina, calls for the removal of the emblem from the Mississippi state flag. Gunter hopes to have at least 100,000 signatures before submitting it to the governor and legislature; as of this writing, she has close to 10,000. A similar MoveOn.org petition in South Carolina calling for the removal of the Confederate flag on state grounds has more than 548,000 signatures.

Philip Gunn, the Mississippi state House Speaker, is the first Republican elected official in the state to publicly call for the removal of the Confederate flag.

“We must always remember our past, but that does not mean we must let it define us,” Gunn said in a statement, echoing remarks from Nikki Haley, the Republican governor of South Carolina, who announced on Monday that the time was right for removal.

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Click to enlarge

Urged on by politicians such as Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush, and even South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham – who has reversed his stance in the past few days – Haley, in a change of heart of her own, said that the flag is a “deeply offensive symbol of a brutally offensive past…that needs to be removed.”

Local officials and businesses across South Carolina and the rest of the South have agreed.

There has been pushback from leaders of some pro-Confederate flag groups, but they have said that they will not fight progress. “With the winds that started blowing last week, I figured it would just be a matter of time,” Ken Thrasher, the lieutenant commander of the Sons of Confederate Veterans in the South Carolina division, told The New York Times. “Whatever the legislature decides to do, we will accept it graciously.”

Haley was clear in her remarks that regardless of what the state legislature decides, the flag will always be allowed on private property.

Wednesday’s massacre revived a debate that has been brewing for decades. In South Carolina, the state where the first shots of the Civil War were fired, there were multiple attempts to remove the flag in the 1990s, culminating in the compromise that removed the flag from the statehouse dome but kept it flying on the grounds. But this also made any future attempt to remove the flag onerous, requiring a two-thirds majority from each chamber in the legislature, a rule that some legislators say may not be legally binding, and that a simple majority would suffice.

As Kay Steiger in Think Progress outlines, the Confederate flag – whose renewal as a symbol of oppression against blacks was revived in the aftermath of World War II, when anti-segregation policies began to be adopted – was hoisted atop the South Carolina state Capitol as a way to honor the Civil War centennial. Thirty years later, some legislators who were there said that the flag was not supposed to be a permanent fixture:

Former state Rep. George Campsen, who was one of the legislators who voted to raise the flag in 1962, said at a gathering at the Capitol in December 1999 that it was “mere oversight or omission” that the resolution to raise the flag in memory of the Civil War centennial didn’t include a date to lower it when the four-year celebration ended in 1966. A news article in the Charlotte Observer at the time noted that of the 170 white legislators who approved the measure, some 60 to 65 legislators were still alive and 48 signed a petition to remove the flag.

While lawmakers like Haley try to push legislation through, eBay, Amazon, Walmart, Sears, and Kmart have already announced they will no longer sell merchandise that bears the Confederate flag.

In South Carolina, support for the flag was until recently going strong, according to a 2014 Winthrop poll taken last November. And while the South Carolina results split among racial lines, nationally, the flag often elicited merely a neutral response, according to an analysis of recent surveys taken by Leah Libresco at FiveThirtyEight. The numbers bring to light an unsettling truth — that often, in order for people to change their minds and take action, a tragedy must happen first.

Photo: Eli Christman via Flickr. Infographic: Tribune News Service

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109 responses to “Southern Lawmakers Push To Remove Confederate Flag”

  1. Dave says:

    Will the government step in and ban rap music from using the “N” word?

    • JPHALL says:

      Why should it? If you do not like it, do not listen.

      • AgLander says:

        ….and if you don’t like a flag, don’t fly it, moron.

        • Carolyn1520 says:

          No one is preventing you from flying it! What part of this don’t you people comprehend? It doesn’t belong on federal or state buildings. Otherwise you are free to have it adorn your person or vehicle or personal residence. You can paint one on your roof if you want. As a liberal I’ll defend your right to do so.
          In fact, when I see it, i know what I’m dealing with it. For me, personally, it’s a warning, akin to having a$$h0le stamped across one’s forehead.

          • AgLander says:

            So you’re in favor of “stamping” people on the forehead as a way of identifying and separating those you don’t approve of? At least Hitler had the courtesy to only stamp them on their arms. How liberal of you! How not surprising for the normal people among us who have come to know the sick mind of liberals.

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            No, I’ll speak slower this time. I said those who feel the need to fly that fly is akin to having a$$h0le on their foreheads for me. While I support their right to BE a$$h0les, I don’t have to agree with their brand of ignorance. Makes the rest of your blah blah about Hitler irrelevant doesn’t it.
            Try breathing through your nose occasionally, it might help you get oxygen to your brain.

          • AgLander says:

            What’s the difference between you figuratively or literally stamping someone’s forehead…….in this case, nothing. Your intent is to stigmatize and segregate, so carry on you little Hitler-like bigot!

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            You still miss my point. I think those who fly the flag are a$$h0les. That flag is the very symbol of bigotry and hate and they pulled it during the 60’s as a statement against integration. You can’t spin that fact. I see those people in that way. Perhaps you would have understood it better if I had said they might just as easily been wearing a neon sign that reads A$$h0le but I think you are being intentionally dense at what my intended meaning is. At least I hope it’s intentional, otherwise the right is in worse shape than I thought.

          • JPHALL says:

            There is little normal about you bigot!

        • JPHALL says:

          And what does that statement mean? “….and if you don’t like a flag, don’t fly it, moron.” Subject: Re: Comment on Southern Lawmakers Push To Remove Confederate Flag

    • Eleanore Whitaker says:

      If you had to ask that question, maybe it’s time for an examination of “your” conscience? My guess is that now that these 9 people were murdered, many rap music creators will stop using any racial epithets. That still won’t stop the guilty white bigots who can’t see themselves as the rest of us do…uneducated, backward and living so far in the past that their culture is based on everything that is dead.

      • AgLander says:

        …you sound like an intellectual hick AND a bigot.

        • Carolyn1520 says:

          You sound like a mouth breather.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Nah…His Grandpappy General Beauregard Mutton Chops taught him to that white skin automatically gets him a seat in heaven. AG is proof positive that some white males are so invested in hatred for minorities. They don’t know when to back the hell off and shut their “ignernt” mouths. But, they do want us to allow their discrimination and hate to continue.

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            We can’t do a thing about how they feel. We can be instrumental in having removed what has been a symbol of hate and segregation for the past 60+ year from federal and state buildings. We can also assure the laws against discrimination are enforced.
            I refuse to engage in any of their follies about any other issue other than that flag doesn’t belong on state or federal building simply because they want to spin and deflect at every turn. They can wear that flag or display it on private property as it’s their right to do whether anyone else likes it or not. Businesses also have the right to sell the flag or pull it from their inventory.
            There is no government ban on anyone displaying it on private property although the right is trying to change that narrative and spin it into that, in the same way they tried to change the shooter’s hatred of blacks into a prop for their imaginary “war on Christians”. I am going to keep repeating it as a response for as long as they try to change the narrative on both the flag and the fact that the shooter’s mass murder is by definition a hate crime.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            The thing that they keep saying is that that CONfederate flag is “who they are.” If that’s true, that’s an open admission they have perpetuated the Confederacy while they were accepting our tax dollars. We cannot sit back and allow these people to lie and contort history, the Constitution or our rights. Their rights do not supercede ours. If we ignore their constant lies and distortions, how long would it be before our kids believe that IS truth?

            From CONfederacy to CONservatism to CON artists who twist facts and truth.

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            That’s why I keep repeating myself stating the facts when they misrepresent the facts. They operate on fear and feelings. You aren’t going to change any minds there. Those who remain on the republican rolls are for the most part fundamentalist Christians and/or racists. Fringe groups such as white supremacists support candidates on the right monetarily and their foot soldiers join them at various rallies. They might not buy in to the religious part but they support the anti-government and anti-immigration part of the agenda.
            I prefer to stick to the facts because it doesn’t cloud the issue or give them an opportunity to get personal. Less chance of it being reduced to name calling which becomes another deflection.
            Not that that’s beneath me, mind you. 🙂 Sometimes, there’s just nothing left to be said. But I prefer to keep to the facts. After all if they can get so many to believe their BS, then I figure there might just be one out there who hasn’t turned into a walking dead yet and will see fit to look further into what’s truth.

          • plc97477 says:

            One republican stance I could learn to like is “states rights” if it would mean we could stop paying to cover their asses.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            They don’t mean “Our” states rights…They only mean “theirs.” I’ll prove it. Remember when Bush went to Calgary Canada in 2007? he met with then Premier Ralph Klein. It wasn’t to discuss the Calgary Flames hockey team. Then, a few months into 2008, Klein met with Bush in DC. All while land was being taken by Texas in NB and 4 other states for the 2500 mile long Keystone Pipeline. All TX had to do was get their red state politicians to give them the green light to call Keystone an “interstate” project, and nothing any landowner in any of the 5 affected states could say or do would save their properties and their homes.

            This is how TX, OK, AZ, KS, IA, ND and Alaska all operate…run the states’ rights of other states into the ground to dominate with their states rights. Now, they are at it again. They are trying to lay claim to owning the Atlantic Ocean to build a pipeline in the most environmentally sensitive region of the US..the eastern coast line.

          • plc97477 says:

            I would like for them to display it, that way I know at a glace who the racist idiots are.

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            It does make it easier to identify A$$h0les.
            As when they thought there was going to be be some sane laws about guns about to be imposed , they all went online and bought up the symbols of their “pride”. So I have a feeling we’ll be able to identify them easily.
            I also saw some toilet paper embellished with the symbol. That seemed fitting.

      • Dave says:

        My guess is that now that these 9 people were murdered, many rap music creators will stop using any racial epithets?
        So with all of the Black on Black gang killings and the Black on white killings and the White on Black killings each year all of a sudden they are going to stop saying the “N” word. All because of some drugged out white kid killed 9 defenseless people in a Church. Jay Z will not let that happen, he is making to much $ off of the music.

        • AgLander says:

          Liberalism means you never have to explain making incredibly stupid statements.

          • Dave says:

            They play the Saul Alinsky card with everything.

          • AgLander says:

            Yep…..if you have a weak hand, you knock the cards from the hands of the other players. Democrat party politics on display. Prepare for more non-issues like this in the presidential campaign with their only candidate being a scandal machine looking for issues to distract the attention of voters away from examining her.

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            While you have a whole bus full of the cast from a Ringling Bros. show.
            We have gotten use to a trumped up new faux “scandal” weekly from the right. That’s all they have as no one on that side can win on their own merit. Those on the right who remain to support them aren’t voting to support something good, they are voting against what they disagree with. Even when it’s at their expense.
            That is the definition of moronic.

          • Independent1 says:

            I guess you must be an expert on ‘incredibly stupid’ because that’s the basic gist of all your posts – STUPIDITY!!!!

        • Carolyn1520 says:

          This isn’t about anything there than that flag as a symbol. But it’s typical of the right to try and deflect.
          Personally, I am more invested in using my energy to stop voter suppression and the violations of civil rights, the right is still trying to impose on people, That flag is a symbol of by gone days. It belongs in a museum. If you want to wear it or fly it do so. I support your right . It doesn’t belong on a federal or state building though. That’s the only issue here and the shooter made it clear the act was committed because he hates people of color.

          • Dave says:

            Voter suppression I agree… everyone should have an ID in order to vote, and be a US citizen.

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            Everyone eligible to vote should be registered on a national data bank thus eliminating the need for jumping through hoops to do what should be a right afforded every citizen.
            Citizenship has always been a prerequisite to voting.
            If you are trying to change the discussion into voter fraud don’t try. It’s a non issue created by the right to further their voter suppression agenda and I’m not entering into a circular argument on that.

          • Independent1 says:

            Requiring a voter ID to vote is nothing more than a Poll Tax. Even if it’s given supposedly free, millions of Americans don’t have the money to get the documents created needed for the state to approve a photo id. And people like you KNOW THAT!! Which is why that’s all you harp on!! You know by pushing for a Voter ID, that millions of low income Americans will be disenfranchised and unable to vote Democrat!!!

            Who do you think you’re kidding anyway??? Only low IQ morons such as yourself????

    • CrankyToo says:

      I seriously doubt that a black person using the word “nigger” would cause someone like you any measure of moral discomfort.

      • Dave says:

        Actually it effects all of us in the long run, when we have a group of people who use it in order to make millions off of a certain group of people.

      • JPHALL says:

        Why do White bigots love to talk about the “N” word? No one else ever
        brings it up. Yeah some Black peopl use the word. They use it the same way White bigots use it. For attention, Grow up and get over it.

    • Carolyn1520 says:

      That’s a little moronic don’t you think? The government hasn’t banned the flag. It doesn’t belong on public federal or state buildings. You are free to adorn your lawn, your vehicle and yourself in whatever symbol you choose and I’d be first to defend your right to do so, even if I find the symbol whatever it might be, repulsive or obscene to me.
      Private businesses also the right to stop selling any merchandise they choose. If it affects their bottom line, it’s simply a wise business decision. Free enterprise. America, ain’t it great?

  2. Dave says:

    Amazon will be taking down all of the Confederate flags from their site and will no longer be selling them. At the same time they will be over looking these 13 items.

    • Independent1 says:

      A number of the items included in those 13 not being pulled from Amazon are similarly offensive to the Confederate flag, in that, they are symbols of hate for one or more segments of a country’s population. But one of the big differences between those 13 and the Confederate flag, is that none of them have been prominently in the news over the past few years where crowds of bigoted southerners are proudly waiving a Confederate flag that symbolizes bigotry and hate; And I don’t recall seeing a Swastika recently flying high on a pole that’s located on some U.S. state’s land like so many southern states have taken to doing in the last 60 years or so. Signifying to others around the world, whether you realize it or not, that there are still U.S. States that are supportive of the bigotry and hate and willingness to oppress people into slavery, that idiots who created the Confederate flag were willing to fight and die for 150 years ago.

      When are you southerners going to realize that instead of being proud about what the Confederate flag stands for, you should be ashamed that you had ancestors who in the beginning, were either too lazy themselves, or too unwilling to pay someone else to do the work they needed done on their plantations. So instead of creating jobs for other southerners, they ran off to Africa where they could buy other humans and make them subservient to their demands for virtually NOTHING!! How in creation can you mindless southerners BE PROUD of ancestors who had to result to slavery because they were to lazy or cheap to get the work they needed done without resorting to owning slaves???????

      • Dave says:

        Do you know that free Black people fought along side the Confederate army for the south?

        • AgLander says:

          No they don’t…..their entire knowledge of the Civil War era is based on an extensive study of news snippets from the last two weeks.

          • Dave says:

            So true.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            So full of BS….There isn’t a school up north that glorifies the Confederacy as there is in the south and midwest. There are no lynchings, bombings of black churches, murders of Civil Rights activists, southern good ole good ole governors barring black students from entering schools…that is YOUR legacy. Did those 4 girls attending Bible studies in Birmingham need to die when a white KKK bomber blasted them to death? He got away with it as always because the jury was ALL WHITE…that your idea of history?

          • AgLander says:

            Historical fact: The sweeping Civil Rights Act of 1964 only passed due to the Republican party’s efforts to get through filibusters by noted Democrats in both the House and Senate. Is this the legacy of racism you are proud of from your Democrat party that as recently as just a few decades ago was standing in the way of equal rights for all under sweeping new legislation? Are you willing to acknowledge the role the Republicans played, without which the Bill would have died in Congress without even being voted on? Or, are you so brainwashed by propaganda from the race hustlers in today’s Democrat party that you just sit there crying “don’t want to hear it, don’t want to hear it”!

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Hey! Right Wing Attack Dog! If LBJ, a Democrat vetoed that 1964 Civil Rights Act, nothing your GOP did or does now would have passed. But, I noticed when you lost that argument about the KKK being ALL about party in your past post, you now switch tracks and try to make it appear the bigot red state GOP was responsible for the Civil Rights Act. Do you want to get any more hypocritical? You are not contradicting your own posts…Yeesh…no wonder we Yankees think the rebels are alien life forms. They can’t even keep their OWN stories straight.

          • AgLander says:

            Thanks for confirming what a good little lap dog robot you are for those hustlers at Democrat headquarters. They rely on walking zombies like you every four years. Without you brain dead “flatliners”, they’d never win an election! Enjoy your special brand of ignorance because there is no cure…….

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Wrong again…You bulldogs of the Republican male domination league need to get a life. I registered as a Republican in 1966. I left your male attack dog party in 2004 when I saw what you narrow minded red state bigots were doing to this country.

            You are a squatty, Grandchild of that good ole good ole phony asshat Colonel Mutton Chops. All that swagger and drawl hides your dark side…vicious attack dogs who dress up like Pretty Boy Perry and the mouth of the south McConnell.

            Don’t wonder why you GOP right wing dogs of war lose more women in your party. 12 Candidates running from the GOP and only one is a woman who failed as CEO of Hewlitt Packard…that be your idea of equality..Go back to your veranda and sip your mint juleps …that’s all you right wing eunochs are good for.

          • AgLander says:

            Summary: You have a problem with white males because, well they’re white, and you have a big racial chip on your shoulder that you carry around like a bowling ball that make you look like you have two heads. Here’s a news flash for you, sister…..what you consider “racism” in the South is nothing of the sort. What you are seeing is a region of the country that moved on decades ago from the things you are accusing them of and now do not tolerate or have any patience for fools of the sort that wake up every morning looking to be insulted as you and your loser friends here at MM never fail to disappoint in serving as examples of……and when you cry “racism” dozens of times a day as a blanket excuse for your own shortcomings in life, don’t expect us to come running to ask what we can possibly do to make you feel loved and appreciated. Grow up……right now you are nothing but a belly-aching loser.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Summary…AGLander….big time autocrat trying to prove “male superiority” based on a phony, pretentious macho ideology. Wake up pallie…52% of the population of the US are women according to the last US Census Bureau report…and ooooooohhhhhhhh doesn’t that just bug your butt?

            As for hating men, I hate what MEN like you do. No matter what color, shape, size or alien planet you come from.

            I see a region of the country where men still play Wild West cowboy or Plantation Owner…I see a region of the country that disrespects MY flag under which many generations of my male relatives fought and which now, many females are fighting…It is NOT that befrigged symbol of traitorship …the Stars and Bars.

            No..YOU YOU YOU grow up. You can’t have your way. You can’t tell any financially independent woman to take a back seat while your double wide male butt lords it over women and keeps our salaries 77 cents for every $1 you male BS CONs keep for yourselves.

            It’s YOUR gender that needs the policing…the last 6 massacres in the US were ALL committed by WHITE males who were in some form of “rebel” mode.

            Do tell us Grandpappy Mutton Chops…what the hell are you all rebelling about? That you can’t force slavery on women and minorities and that you can’t be BOSS? Seems like you are still going through the Terrible Twos…more’s the pity that you live in 1820 and not 2015…Keep promoting more Roof gun nuts.

          • AgLander says:

            I pity you, “gurlfriend”……your life must be a difficult one toting around that truckload of venom. Somebody did a real number on you to explain such deep seated bitterness, such resentment. You offer an image of a very sad existence.

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            That an example of republican projecting at it’s finest.
            Your party depends on it, all the while working against your best interests. They have you all working for them while their bottom lines increase and you buy into it’s the other guys fault.
            My sympathies.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Wrong…Most of us up north don’t have biased school books that paint the South as the Glorious Confederacy. Our school books tell us of each battle you lost and why. Get over it.

        • Independent1 says:

          What’s that supposed to prove? That there were some blacks during the civil war, who had been born and raised under slavery, who not only knew nothing about freedom, and because of that were actually afraid to be free because they had no clue as to how they would take care of themselves; and maybe because of a feeling of loyalty to a slave owner’s family, felt misguidedly that they should fight for the south?? And or many possibly joined the Confederate Army having been brainwashed into believing that they should do that by their slave owners???

          Come on!! There were multiple times the number of blacks, many who had fled slavery in the south that were fighting for the union. Even my state of Maine had a large contingent of blacks fighting for the Union. And Maine was and still is a state with not a lot of blacks.

          Trying to justify the repulsive actions of seven bigoted southern states, who if you’ll remember, started the war, not because THEY were going to lose the right to keep slaves, but because Lincoln and campaigned on ensuring that the practice of slavery wouldn’t extend into the new American territories that hadn’t even formed into states. Despite what you southern bigots would like everybody to believe, the North was not threatening the South with taking away their right to slavery at that point, Lincoln was only looking to keep any new states from starting the practice of slavery.

          • Independent1 says:

            I’m not interested in reviewing any of your rwnj websites that have been contrived to support the bigoted/egotistical/slave loving actions of the south. Post something from a bona fide newsworthy website and I may consider looking at. You’re totally wasting your time posting right-wing biased websites WHICH NEVER PUBLISH THE REAL TRUTH!!! IT’S ALWAYS SOME FABRICATION OF REALITY!!!!!!

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            That’s why it is soooo dangerous not to fight for truth in this country. You actually have a bunch of contortionist liars and antagonists who have been perpetuated a Confederacy on OUR tax dollars. They just created the illusion they wanted to be part of the United States…meanwhile these red states were living as closet Confederates forcing us to help keep their states in tax revenues. They pay less and get more and then they aren’t even paying allegiance to the USA but a Confederacy?

          • Dave says:

            You can take your head out of the sand and watch the video you will be OK, you will see how a black man is very proud of his southern heritage and the Confederacy that his family fought for.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            …or did what their overseer told them to do. Justifying slavery because some slaves joined the Confederacy is the ultimate insult and a clear attempt to deflect attention from bigotry.

        • Carolyn1520 says:

          Deflection.

          • Dave says:

            Talk about deflection… we have a drugged out kid who kills 9 people in a church and you people want to ban a flag.

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            The 21 year old adult shooter who drove quite a distance to kill people of color because he hates them, which he admitted and is also documented in his manifesto?
            You miss a lot don’t you? That flag is NOT being banned. It doesn’t belong on a federal or state building but you are free to adorn yourself, your vehicle or home on personal property in it.
            Add delusional to that.

          • Sand_Cat says:

            Obviously you want to keep the flag. Do you display it beside your swastika?

          • Dave says:

            Nope, I had to sell my swastika on e-bay, so that I could pay for my Obama-care premium.

          • plc97477 says:

            Good the ACA made you a better person.

          • Carolyn1520 says:

            At best, a healthier mouth breather. 🙂

          • Sand_Cat says:

            Good one 🙂
            If you get a job and become a “maker” instead of a “taker,” you could have your swastika and flag both.

          • Dave says:

            I have a good paying job, and I also am someone who gives back to people who are in need,with my time and my money not the tax payers.

          • Sand_Cat says:

            Immune to humor as well as facts, I see.

          • Sand_Cat says:

            Seriously, no one wants to “ban” the flag; we just don’t think government entities should be displaying a symbol of treason, racism, and slavery, but the underlying problem is that the governments of these states seem to be in the hands of people who are proud of those things.

          • Dave says:

            The Confederate flag is not a symbol of racism, that is the flag of the KKK , that was founded by the Democratic party of the South.

          • Sand_Cat says:

            Clearly your grasp of history is a bit tenuous, as well as skewed.
            Like all people with no argument, you point out that the Democrats in the south – all of whom quickly became republicans upon passage of the Civil and Voting Rights Acts – supported slavery and segregation. Of course events that took place less than 100+ years ago are completely irrelevant unless they can be twisted to support your position.
            The KKK was founded by Nathan Bedford Forest, a slave trader and traitor.
            Display of the Confederate flag by the various states became popular right around the time of civil rights agitation and legislation, but of course that had nothing to do with racism.
            The secession of the various states, despite attempts to whitewash them by modern-day racists, were primarily driven by the desire to protect slavery, and the documents say so, repeatedly. The Confederate flag is, and always will be, the premier symbol of American racism, your denials and rationalizations notwithstanding.

        • Eleanore Whitaker says:

          Did YOU know that those blacks were NOT allowed to fight side by side with their southern WHITE rebels?

        • Sand_Cat says:

          Did you ever think what would have happened to them if they hadn’t?
          Did you know that traitors from multiple conquered countries served alongside the German Nazis in the SS?
          Did you consider that your post on this topic is irrelevant, in no way pertinent to the discussion?

      • Dominick Vila says:

        Or atop a government building in Germany…because one of their political parties, and a segment of its society, still want to take Germany back to the Third Reich era. The problem we are dealing with now is not what happened a century and a half ago, but the overt racism that still exists and our insistence on arming those who should be spending the rest of their lives in jail or in a mental institution.

        • Dave says:

          Dominick, just today the ex- chairman of the black panthers said it’s time to have a rebellion and kill all slave masters. Do you think that the Obama administration will do anything about this.

          http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/24/black-panther-chairman-complete-charlestons-slave-rebellions-plan-to-kill-all-the-slave-masters/

          • Dominick Vila says:

            I have no idea what the Obama administration is going to do about this, or anything else for that matter.
            What is evident, if this statement is true, is that not every African American reacts the way the families of the Emanuel Church victims did. Only people with strong moral convictions can forgive a terrorist within hours of the criminal murdering parishioners in cold blood.
            I would not be surprised if it is true that an ex-leader of the Black Panthers prefers to take a different approach to deal with the ethnic and cultural abuses that are becoming common place in the USA. You can only keep people down for so long. Sooner or later, their ability or willingness to forgive their abusers is replaced by anger, and the result is the violence that Mr. Roof tried to promote.
            The issue is not what a person said, but what a large segment of our population is doing repeatedly, and often with absolute impunity.

    • Carolyn1520 says:

      You miss the point. Private businesses are making business decisions that affect their bottom. It’s their right. Boycott them if you disagree. That’s your right. You can display your flag on private property or wear it, also your right. The only issue here is it does not belong on a federal or state building.

  3. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    I hate the sight of the Confederate Flag for one reason: my relatives who were wounded, fought and died in wars under the American Flag.

    Now, every red state politician who hid the truth about their states refusing to give up their Confederacy is having their dirty laundry aired.

    That they would continue to promote Confederacy and the Stars and Bars, proves beyond all doubt their back room intent to live off federal tax dollars while they demolished democracy to rule as a Confederacy. Good reason for not voting “red” ever again.

    • AgLander says:

      Typical Northern hate monger who can’t let it go…..Sherman’s campaign to the sea is over. Yet, you remained obsessed over the trivial from your miserable little perch in New Jersey……one of the worst hellholes in America!

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        Typical southern/midwestern racist bigot who can’t let go of the past. YOU lost the Civil War. Time for you to get over it. Your southern states have perpetuated racism long past the Civil War that freed the slaves. White males like you can’t EVER admit you are not superior. Everything you post proves that.

        As for hate, I love how you gloss over how many KKK haters come from the south …beginning with the Civil War hero, Nathan Bedford Forrest who was the 1st KKK leader from TN. So..you want hate. Fine…we will continue to hate anyone who lies, distorts history and tries to turn our government into a Confederacy.

        A man like you is a closet bigot but you are not man enough to admit it.

        Yeesh than he calls us northerners haters. We have more blacks and minorities living up north and we don’t go around murdering them like you rebels do. What the hell are you still rebelling about anyway?

        • AgLander says:

          Are you talking about the same Nathan Bedford Forrest who served as a DEMOCRAT delegate to the 1868 New York National Democrat convention? Thank you for pointing out the interesting racist background of one of your party’s most revered past leaders!

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Nice try at making your bigotry a party issue. He joined Nathan Bedford Forrest joined the Confederacy for one reason: He believed in segregation. Party had nothing to do with his becoming a segregationist KKK leader. It has to do with his ideology that he, as a southern white man, had to fight to keep his supremacy over slaves.

            And you are pretty stupid for even mentioning party for one reason…it simply means your southern contingent of lunatic fringe segregationists switched to the GOP when you realized the Democrats were not going to allow any more of you to buy and sell human slaves. Get over it AG…you are only proving how stupid your posts are.

          • AgLander says:

            D E M O C R A T………It hurts enough for you to weakly protest, eh?

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            B I G O T….. Thanks for proving you are too “ignernt” to take part in an educated discussion.

            The south was only Democrat because they stupidly believed buying and selling human beings was going to be accepted BY the Democrats. Like all rebels, they hate Lincoln, a Republican, because he freed the slaves you bigots needed so desperately to do your dirty work.

            So in your twisted partisan reference, you prove that southerners hated the very Republicans they became. Wow…how stupid do you plan to get?

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Most importantly we, as a party, reject the immorality and inhumanity of those who endorse and support slavery, including those who once upon a time considered themselves Democrats. Today, they constitute an important segment of the not so Grand Ole Party, a fact that highlights how complacent or complicit the GOP is on this subject.

          • plc97477 says:

            Just for my own information, when did you become a republican?

          • JPHALL says:

            What does his party in the mid 1800’s have to do with anything today? The Democrats of the 1800’s are the Republicans of today. That change begun in the 1920’s and accelerated under FDR. The confusion comes from the unwillingness of many to learn history. I guess you are one of those.

          • AgLander says:

            Really????? In the 20’s you say? Well then, I guess those filibustering Democrats in the 60’s who tried to block the sweeping Civil Rights Act must not have got the message!!!!!!! And those rascally Republicans who teamed up with Johnson to overcome those “progressive” minded Democrats!

          • JPHALL says:

            Are you really that dense! The Republicans you mention made a deal with Johnson. Many also became Democrats or Independents. Those Southern Democrats you keep mentioning became Republicans because of Johnson’s Civil Rights bills. Ask Richard Nixon about his Southern strategy. Subject: Re: Comment on Southern Lawmakers Push To Remove Confederate Flag

          • Independent1 says:

            And it’s the ‘true Democrats’ not the fake ones of the 1860s and 1960s who are now Republicans, that have been the only true positives for America in the past 100 plus years (since Teddy Roosevelt).

            Since 1929, under 42 years of Democrat presidencies, the stock market has returned over 300% gains, while under 40 years or so of Republican presidencies, the return has been ZERO!!!

            And even with respect to economic growth (GDP), since 1900, the GDP growth under Republican presidents has seen a paltry 2.6%/yr growth; while under Democrat presidents it has averaged more than 4.3%/yr growth.

            And even with respect to jobs growth – since Carter was in office, three DEMOCRAT presidents (Carter, Clinton and Obama) have created close to 40 million AMERICAN JOBS in 18 years, while three failed GOP presidents (Reagan, and the two Bushes) were able to create only 1/2 that number – a paltry 20 million jobs in 20 years!!!!!!

            Below are some graphs to show that every DEMOCRAT – OUTPERFORMED EVERY REPUBLICAN -since FDR was in Office. Talk about FAILURES – REPUBLICAN – FAILURE IS THY NAME!!!!!!!!

      • Carolyn1520 says:

        Deflection.

      • Sand_Cat says:

        You’re just a typical defender of things racist and – like the hate mongers in the south and throughout the country, won’t let go. You simply project your pathetic delusions on someone else.

        • AgLander says:

          The world is on fire…..we could be the victim of another 9-11, the economy is in shambles, the size of the work force the smallest since the 1970’s and you sorry a#s Democrat libtards are only interested in re-engaging and initiating hostilities with the South over an issue that your fragile egos somehow consider issue #1 in need of immediate attention. ISIS is laughing knowing we are so vulnerable thanks to you and your kind behaving like a bunch of kids in the sandbox. You are a bigger threat to this country than the terrorists could ever be. You people are beyond pathetic and are nothing but losers of the worst kind because you live here. Go ahead……today you are chasing flags. Tomorrow it will be something else equally silly and meaningless.

          • Sand_Cat says:

            ))))) (Laughing)

          • Sand_Cat says:

            Hilarious that you talk about the world being on fire, yet here you are, “chasing flags” as you put it, defending the indefensible. You’re the childish egotist here, thinking your nasty and ignorant opinions are of any significance and too dull to realize the issue is the racist agenda that supports the flag.

  4. itsfun says:

    Its only a flag. If the people of a state want to fly, fly the damn thing. If they don’t want, then don’t fly it. That flag didn’t cause a drugged out thug to kill 9 innocent people in a church. To some that flag is a terrible symbol, if that is the case just don’ look at it. To other people it is a sign of their heritage, and want to look at it. We have a lot more and bigger problems to fix. Poverty, homeless people, wars, drugs, immigration. Taking down a flag won’t fix any of these.

    • chino49p says:

      Its not “only” a flag. Its a symbol of hatred & intolerance. What it stands for & promotes is racism & bogotry, that is why groups like the kkk, arian nation and others all “proudly display” the confederate, aparthied, and nazi symbols.
      It went on display in the late 50’s to early 60’s as a direct official “protest” AGAINST the growing civil rights movement. It sent a clear message that we are “still” bigoted against the idea that all men are created “equal”.
      There is nothing to be proud of, as the son of disgraced strom thurmond said just recently. The confederacy was nothing more than treason against the US and stood for the idea that the Negro was not equal to the white man nor deserving of equal treatment from the whiteman, but SHOULD be kept always subserviant to the superior white man.
      Its a part of our history true, but a shameful part. It should not be glorified. If the situation were turned around, and it was your race that had been the target of southern pride & bigotry and the ensuing discrimination ever since then, you would be repulsed every time you saw it also.

    • Eleanore Whitaker says:

      Good…now I’ll fly a British flag so like you I can pretend the Colonials NEVER won the Revolutionary War. That you would support a flag that some bird brained rebel hater brandished as a white supremacist only proves just how far some of you white males will go to get your way.

      Taking down a flag that has NO meaning and disrespects any person who ever fought in wars under the American Flag fixes in the minds of bitter, resentful trough feeding bigots that we do not allow their mindless need to segregate, discriminate and deny US Constitutional rights based on the color of skin.

      • Sand_Cat says:

        Perhaps itsfun flies the Nazi flag in commemoration of the “honorable” service of German veterans. After all, it’s only a flag.

    • Sand_Cat says:

      It’s NOT “only a flag,” and never has been.

  5. Sand_Cat says:

    I believe that the cross on the Alabama flag is simply Saint Andrew’s cross, which I guess one could call an “element” of the Confederate flag, though it existed and adorned the flag of Great Britain long before those whjo founded the Confederacy were born.

  6. bobnstuff says:

    The largest manufacture of Confederate flags doesn’t understand what happening. They are in China. We have them all confused.

  7. BiteMeLiberals says:

    Much better to educate blacks than worry about their idiosyncrasies. We went through this with the Snapple tea label and the Sambo’s restaurant fairytale icon, neither of which had anything to do with blacks but we continue to pander to their stupidity.

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