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Tuesday, March 26, 2019

The cliche that remains to describe Donald Trump’s presidential campaign is that it “broke all the rules.” And it did, possibly even the “Logan Act.”

A verbally incontinent, banally bigoted con artist proved that four decades of fame, a Twitter account, and a Republican Party in moral foreclosure (with lots of help from foreign hackers and a compromised FBI Director) was just enough to eke out a “victory” and become a minority president, despite losing the popular vote by a margin larger than the population of 15 of our states… and counting.

Most of Trump’s sordid campaign — its know-nothingness, its scapegoating, and its middle-school-style smearing of opponents — might leave you with the impression that there’s nothing to learn from his contemptible act. But then you, like me and nearly every human being who made any sort of prediction in 2016, would be wrong.

His fact-free framing and shameless repetition of simple themes were tactics that Democrats will have to counter. And his campaign also achieved another breakthrough that can’t be ignored.

“Over 3,000,000 confirmed tickets were issued for @realDonaldTrump rallies,” Brad Parscale, Digital Director for the Donald J. Trump presidential campaign, tweeted late last month.

Trump’s rallies often seemed like commercials from an anti-Trump campaign. They were rabid, unruly, and centered on slogans designed to alienate specific voters. You could almost smell them through the TV. The idea that his rallies substituted for the granular, targeted campaign the Clinton campaign was running seemed mockable.

But, in the end, they worked. You could even argue that they were key.

“When you really drill down on this election, if you change the vote in five counties, four in Florida, one in Michigan, we’d be having a totally opposite conversation right now,” Trump campaign pollster Tony Fabrizio said last week. “For all the money that was spent, for the all the effort that was made, literally four counties in Florida, one county in Michigan puts us at 261 [electoral] votes and makes Hillary Clinton the president. So, remember that.”

President Obama won Macomb County in 2008 and 2012. Trump carried it by 50,000 votes and won the state of Michigan by just about 10,000.  The GOP nominee visited the Mitten, which Democrats have won in every presidential election since 1992, more than half a dozen times. One of his last rallies of the campaign was in Macomb. Showing up helped, but it wasn’t enough.

Don’t think of Trump’s rallies as normal political events. They were more like Internet comment sections come to life.

Over the last two decades, online comments and forums have provided a safe space for all sorts of dialogue — though they tend to quickly descend into name-calling, racism, sexism, and someone typing “black-on-black crime” statistics in ALL CAPS. This online underbelly prospered even as America became more tolerant of the LGBTQ community and elected a black president twice, while “political correctness” was said to be spreading rampantly, threatening individuality, free speech, and Christmas.

Apparently, being allowed to be purposely offensive on millions of web pages wasn’t enough.

White dudes and their wives wanted to wear “Fuck Your Feelings” and “Trump That Bitch” shirts in public as they screamed in the faces of the lame-stream media that covered up ACORN and invented climate change. Trump’s rallies gave them a chance to do that.

That kind of behavior is easy to mock. I just did it! But Trump’s rallies also represented something bigger for Americans who felt alienated from an electorate that sent Obama to the White House twice — a chance to participate in the process without being bored as hell.

Bill Mitchell was a generic local conservative radio star host until he became the official spokesman for the blind optimism of Trump true believers, which never faded even as Trump trailed in the polls and the models of the polls and the models of the models of the polls; basically, until Election Day. Mitchell was widely ridiculed for tweeting that Trump’s ground game was “in our hearts.”

Turns out that it was — and also in their Facebook feeds and in the evangelical spirit fed by Trump’s rallies. Of course, that ground game was actually quietly supported by an improved RNC vote-pulling effort. And the Koch network’s shadow party efforts to re-elect Republican Senators in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin may have swayed the presidential election, too. (Someone should really look into this!)

But for Trump voters, his rallies were a form of democracy that could grab your heart and make you feel that you were part of something important. And while the Clinton campaign countered with their own rallies boosted by extraordinary star power, they lacked the bandwagon effect achieved by Trump, as her campaign focused on the high-tech tools and TV ads that helped elect our current president twice.

In their podcast Keepin’ It 1600 last week, former Obama chief speechwriter Jon Favreau and senior advisor Dan Pfeiffer argued that the next generation of Democratic leaders need to persuade and reach voters in a much more direct — almost Trumpian — style.

Talking like a cab driver actually takes a lot of practice.

Democrats need their own counter-programming to Trump’s rallies, which he has promised to keep doing in order to avoid reading briefing books and being near Mike Pence throughout his presidency.

Building up a circuit of progressive speakers who hone and craft their message directly to voters would force Democrats to match their message to the mood and needs of the people who will become the next generation of activists. It could bring the Democratic message back to places like Macomb that Democrats need to win in 2020. And most importantly it will serve as a visible reminder that the left will not let Trump destroy American norms and values as president without putting up a helluva fight.

Call it the 50-state Moral Mondays movement that many, including The Nation‘s Ari Berman, have been calling for. Call it an American Majority movement that won’t let Trump forget that he’s the biggest “loser” ever elected president. Just do it.

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240 responses to “Stop Mocking Trump’s Rallies — And Start Imitating Them”

  1. Dominick Vila says:

    There is a lesson to be learned behind all this, besides how entertaining and raucous Trump rallies are, and how odd it is to hear Trump talk about himself as if he was just a messenger talking someone larger than life. The truth is that the size and enthusiasm of Trump rallies were clear evidence of what was about to happen. Hillary, her campaign, the DNC, pollsters, and the media ignored the obvious and ended up losing the whole enchilada.

    • Independent1 says:

      Dominick, Hillary didn’t lose. The GOP cheated and stole their way into another presidency with every dirty trick in the book including hacking the computers that were counting the votes.

      • InformedVoter says:

        You couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s impossible to “hack” into devices that are not connected to anything but a wall socket.
        The GOP won because the blue collar, middle, working class grew weary of the Dems lies for the past 8 years. The Dems focused more on bathrooms than they did on jobs. Even they have admitted this.

        • Independent1 says:

          Sorry dumbo, but in order to transfer the vote counts to the outside world, the computers counting the votes had to be connected to the internet!! Nice try dumbo – but no cigar!!!

          • anon1775 says:

            Beyond that, he’s absolutely wrong about it being “impossible to hack” things that aren’t connected to the internet.

          • itsfun says:

            Are you trying to make people believe that my home computer not connected to the internet can be hacked?

          • anon1775 says:

            How many people have unsupervised access to your home computer on a given day?

          • anon1775 says:

            Let’s say, just hypothetically, that you had to let hundreds, maybe thousands, of people use it over the course of several days, in a booth with a closed curtain.

            “Very very strong passwords” will only do so much.

          • itsfun says:

            each one of those thousands would get only 3 attempts before my machine will lock them completely out. The odds of any one person finding my passwords with just 3 tries is almost impossible. Odds would be something like 3 out of millions. I was a IT security officer, I know how to protect my machine. To bad for Hillary, she only hired rookies.

          • anon1775 says:

            So we’ve gone from “impossible” to “almost impossible”. Progress.

            As a “security officer”, you obviously know that your passwords are irrelevant if someone has unsupervised physical access to the hardware.

          • itsfun says:

            You are wrong again. First you make your machine timeout after 3 tries. Second you have passwords rules that state you will use both upper and lower case, you will have numeric characters and at least one special character in your password. You also make a minimum of 8 characters in a password. You make uses have a password only they can know. Example: IltpB&h350. I love to play baseball and hit 350.

          • anon1775 says:

            I guess I’ll have to repeat myself.

            “Passwords are irrelevant if someone has unsupervised physical access to the hardware.”

            I’m not talking about brute-forcing a password. I’m talking about physically tampering with the machine. The basics of password complexity are not the issue.

          • itsfun says:

            I have been talking about hacking into a machine, not taking a hammer to it.

          • anon1775 says:

            You were talking about guessing passwords. As if a Windows log-in is the only way to access or change information on a computer.

          • itsfun says:

            nope I was taking about keeping hacker out of my machine. I don’t need you trying to tell me what I was talking about.

          • anon1775 says:

            Apparently, you need someone to tell you what “hacking” is, though.

            The conversation started with someone saying it’s impossible to hack a computer that isn’t connected to the internet. We’ve both agreed that isn’t impossible. Everything else is a matter of degrees.

          • itsfun says:

            Like I said I don’t need you telling me what I was talking about. I will make that decision, not you.

          • anon1775 says:

            So… am I wrong in asserting that you were talking about passwords?

            Like I said, we’ve already agreed that InformedVoter (ironically named, of course) was wrong. Now we’re bickering about exactly how wrong he and you, by extension, are.

          • itsfun says:

            The only thing I talked about passwords was how strong ones can help to stop hacking. I also said to use timeouts after 3 unsuccessful attempts to sign in. Strong Passwords and security policies can keep someone from sitting in front of your machine and getting into your info. If a machine Is not connected to the internet, it can’t be hacked by someone on the internet.

          • anon1775 says:

            I’m glad we agree.

            The original comment didn’t say “…can’t be hacked by someone on the internet,” it said, “it’s impossible to hack”. We’ve since both agreed that it isn’t “impossible to hack”.

          • dpaano says:

            I have very, very strong passwords too, but that doesn’t mean crap if someone wants to get into my computer….there are SO many ways that a hacker can get those passwords, trust me on this one!

          • dpaano says:

            Agreed…..we have absolutely NO idea who hacks into our personal computers in our homes. Even with firewalls like Norton, etc., hackers can still get in if they want to by the use of so many different schemes! As far as I know, someone may be watching me from my computer, and I would have NO idea that it’s happening. This is why the internet, etc., has become so dangerous.

          • InformedVoter says:

            Sorry but no, the machines do NOT connect to the internet. A typical method is a simple phone call that reports the results. This is done generally by a human being. So unless they have a cough, there is no chance for hacking.
            I’m really enjoying my victory cigar! 306 to 232, especially since on the morning of the election, HilLIARy had a sure 238 votes. A true mandate!

        • itsfun says:

          Not only do people want smaller and honest government, but we also want the government out of our bathrooms and bedrooms.

          • InformedVoter says:

            Boy you got that right. Keep up the good posts. They’re running around and haven’t a clue what to do. The dummy Pelosi now says they don’t have to change a thing. I hope she’s right. The Dems have lost more seats since she took control in history.

          • itsfun says:

            Since Obama got elected the Dem have lost 900 state and federal seats and I think its 11 Governors.

          • JPHALL says:

            YET YOU SUPPORT THEW REPUBLICANS!

          • JPHALL says:

            But that seems to be what Republicans push at the most. Who cares if immigrants or homosexuals want to serve in the military? The Republicans. Who cares if non Whites want their rights under the Constitution? The Republicans.

          • itsfun says:

            Obama is the one who threated to cut off federal funds to schools that did NOT have boys and girls using the same bathrooms. Where did any Republican say anything about non-whites wanting their constitution rights?

          • JPHALL says:

            I see that you still don’t get it! Making it hard for non Whites and poor people to vote is a Republican standard operating procedure (SOP). If you are going to require an Id make it easily available, not harder to get. Closing sites for getting the ID or limiting the polling places so that people have to spend hours in lines to vote in minority areas are also a Republican (SOP).

            As to the bathroom issue what is your actual point? Gays, lesbians and transgenders, in your mind, must use the bathroom of their birth sex. So someone who has had an operation to change genders must still use their birth sex bathroom? You really think a male rapist is going to dress up as a women? We have had Unisex rest rooms, the door says Male/Female, in California for generations with no problems. One person or couple walk in, lock the door, then leave when finished.

          • itsfun says:

            Demanding a id to vote is not making it hard, it is making voting secure. You seem to think a person has to re-register for every election. People only need to register once in their lifetime unless they change addresses. All of our states should issue a photo id free of charge when a person registers to vote. Unisex bathrooms I have seen are all one holers so to speak. Yes a person enters locks the door and that’s it. However in public schools the bathrooms are designed for more than one user at a time. Bathrooms in stores like Target have more than one user at a time also. I don’t want my 14 year old grand daughter using the bathroom and have some 259 pound man come in and take a crap next to her. I hear from the left about privacy and people having their own space. How about some privacy in the bathroom. You may want to put your young daughter through that, I don’t. You also want 95% of the population to bow down and change their personal bathroom habits to please about 5% or less. Screw that. You could always make every business in the US
            build a bathroom for the gays, transgenders, etc.

          • JPHALL says:

            I see you still do not get it. I have no problem with ID’s. I have a problem with closing the sites to get them and making people travel sometimes to another county to get one. I have a problem with inadequate polling places in only minority areas. I have a problem with overly vague cleansing of voting lists.

            As to bathrooms, I see you have bought into the false narrative of men and women sharing the bathroom at the same time. No one has suggested that they do that. In fact, nothing stops men from walking into women’s rest rooms right now other than custom and the odds of getting caught. If you are living as a women, you have no interest in sex with women. But if you think you are a man, you do. So forcing females, who think they are men into the women’s restroom is asking for trouble. Remember the rumors about women coaches at all girl schools?

          • itsfun says:

            Lets start with public schools. They all have boys and girls bathrooms that have facilities for more than one person at a time. What you are saying about not sharing at the same time makes no sense then. Why threaten to cut of federal funding if boys and girls are not allowed to use the same bathrooms at the same time. Why then did Obama threaten to cut federal funding if no sharing is the policy. Whether you believe it or not, men and women are different. Both should be allowed privacy in the bathroom at all times This politically correct bullsh_t is the reason we have President-elect Trump.

          • JPHALL says:

            YOU ARE BEING OBTUSE! It is a simple task to fix one small restroom for male/female with an inside lock especially at the high school and college levels.

          • itsfun says:

            Nope, Those are NOT small bathrooms, they are bathrooms made to allow several small people of the same sex do their business at the same time. How many of these small people have had sex change operations? How many of them are gay or lesbian? Are these small kids suppose to pee or crap their pants standing in lines just to please the politically correct? The same goes for high school and college students.

          • JPHALL says:

            Why are so obtuse? Schools have made adjustments for kids at least since the 1950’s. At my elementary school in the 1950’s they first sent kids to the school office and then converted a closet. It is only a big deal for those who are mentally rigid.

          • itsfun says:

            why do you want your daughter sitting next to a man taking a dump

          • JPHALL says:

            I see that fact is not your interest. You prefer fiction. Goodbye!

          • dpaano says:

            But, JP, you have to realize that California is WAAAY ahead of the crowd when it comes to things like this. This is why California is such a well-run state and has the 6th largest economy in the nation.

          • JPHALL says:

            I guess you are right. It seems that some people have lost all sense of the common good and spend their lives trying to make other people suffer.

          • dpaano says:

            Unfortunately, the biggest section of this nation will suffer the most while the 1% will end up just getting richer and richer!!!

        • Reliably uninformed as usual. Thanks for nothing. And no—Jobs isn’t the issue. The issue is lack of insight, emphasis on being self-centered, callousness, and at the core a lack of conscience is your issue and that of others who think lamely as you do.

          • InformedVoter says:

            Jobs isn’t an issue? Why do you insist on showing everyone you are low information. Jobs isn’t an issue – tell that to the millions who grew weary of the Dems broken promises and lies as their jobs left. Even HilLIARy’s team is admitting they forgot to focus on the jobs and lost the election because of it. The fact that you can’t seem to grasp that concept only confirms your low information status.

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        • meridaest says:

          It was the Republicans who focused on toilets to stir up their base. Of course, that is where they dwell so it wasn’t too difficult.

          • InformedVoter says:

            Sorry to upset you, but it was Obama and Co who pushed “use any bathroom you wish”. Even HilLIARy’s team are saying they blew it by focusing on bathrooms. It’s their own words, so if you don’t agree, just let them know.
            You low information lefties just don’t learn, you started the name-calling, which is a clear sign you’re losing the argument.

          • itsfun says:

            Obama threatened to cut off federal funding to any schools that did NOT have both boys and girls using the same bathroom.

    • marriea says:

      So, what is that ‘obvious’ exactly.
      I saw a campaign from the GOP side that was full of gutter talk from the Trump side of the barrel.
      Maybe I’m just old fashion, from which I kind of expect my ‘leaders’ to act with some sort of decorum.
      Are we now going to hear state of the union addresses that are laced with profanity and vile enuendos.
      Are we now going to have ambassidors or leaders from other countries subjected to callous disrespect and battering, when in some societies respect is the saving grace of detente.
      And the people that wear these tee shirts, I expect them to be on the news someday either defending their bullying kids or accusing someone else of bullying theirs.
      Lord, help us.
      I’m still trying to wrap my head around what people see in Trump, other than an ‘entertaining reality star’, whom I guess when people liken to the characters of ones seen on T V and in the movies.
      One who is also a cheat who takes pride in the idea that he can use loopholes to get out of paying his fair share of taxes by calling his moves ‘being smart’
      How many people are now going to find themselves in hot water trying to do the same.
      So all of the mean stuff that people say about others is really about folks venting, wanting to do the same things.
      Everything and everytime I read or hear about Trump these days really leave be wanting to cry and I can’t.
      What I find interesting is our mother country England also had folks doing a backlash with their passage of Brexit.
      England and the United States will possible see and experience the same fate, together, when loss of respect and who knows status in this vast diverse world of ours, because of people who don’t believe we are a great country already.
      Please help me understand

      • Independent1 says:

        Lot’s of great comments!! Thanks for making them.

        But to set the record straight, Trump didn’t use a ‘tax loophole’ to not pay close to a billion in taxes over the past couple decades, he cheated on his taxes, for which, he should be being tried right now for tax fraud and being sent to jail.

        See this:

        Trump’s tax dodge wasn’t ‘smart’—it was a billion dollar cheat

        http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/1/1589473/-Trump-s-tax-dodge-wasn-t-smart-it-was-a-billion-dollar-cheat

        • dpaano says:

          But, Independent1, who will be running both the IRS and the Justice Department once Trump is inaugurated? Do you think his nominees to those departments are going to do anything to him? That’s not likely, unfortunately….they’ll just kowtow to him and let him get away with the things that he did before he was elected!

          • Independent1 says:

            That’s why he needs to be indicted and prosecuted before 1/20/17 while Obama is still in charge.

          • dpaano says:

            Definitely, but I don’t see President Obama putting his foot down and demanding that the Department of Justice and the IRS do their jobs! Someone needs to take control and get this done! I know there are ongoing investigations, and I’m afraid those will go down the toilet once Trump is in the Oval Office….you can count on that!

          • Independent1 says:

            Apparently, Representative Cummings is pushing for an investigation. I signed a Credo petition this morning supporting such an investigation. I for one will be emailing the White House asking why the White House is allowing a felon to take over the presidency.

          • dpaano says:

            I don’t see that as happening…..we already don’t hear anything about ongoing investigations. They’ve suddenly “dropped” off the news and no word has come out.

      • InformedVoter says:

        There is great misstatement of the truth in your post. The name-calling was from the left MSM. You have bought into their lies and believe President Trump is evil. Just because a lie is told 1000 times, it doesn’t mean that it’s the truth.
        All the hatred and animosity has been created by the lies the MSM published. Shame on you for believing their lies.

        • ¢rÄbG®äŠŠ says:

          You can change your moniker for free.

          • InformedVoter says:

            Why would I wish to change it? It fits perfectly with the truth and information I’ve been posting. Ask any of your low information fellow posters “how many of them believed my post that the pollster were being paid to create fake polls”? I kept posting that the polls were fake and that President Trump was ahead in the true polls. You guys chided and mocked me, just as you’re doing now. So please explain how I’m not the true informed voter when I got it correct and you low information lefties didn’t have a clue and are in meltdown now!

          • ¢rÄbG®äŠŠ says:

            Sorry, could you repeat that?

          • InformedVoter says:

            You guys are so low information and naive to have believed the fake polls. I tried to INFORM you folks. So it would seem that my moniker is justified and appropriate.

          • ¢rÄbG®äŠŠ says:

            In what sense?

          • ¢rÄbG®äŠŠ says:

            How about “high information voter”?

          • InformedVoter says:

            Say, thanks for your compliment. I think I’ll stick with the original. If I’m informed, then I’m also high information too.

          • dpaano says:

            How about “Wrong Information Voter?” As for attacking us and calling us “low information voters,” you are SOOO wrong! We actually READ entire articles and not just headlines. We don’t read false news stories on social media, and when we do, we are smart enough to realize that these are just a bunch of BS! We also take the time to fact check what we read to make SURE it’s what is written. All of these are things that you and your troll cronies DON’T do!

          • ¢rÄbG®äŠŠ says:

            For what it’s worth, I think we may be engaging here with a cat that’s been left alone in the house, with keyboard access.

        • marriea says:

          You mean you missed all of that name calling of Trump on national TV?
          He name called himself into the nomination and now the presidency.
          You must be one of the folks Trump was talking about when he said that he could go out and kill someone on a Manhatten NY street and his supporters would support him.
          I seriously hope you aren’t one of those people.
          What is MSM?
          As for Trump not being evil, stick around.
          We’re about to see and experience worst than evil.

          • Zengo says:

            MSM is “main stream media”

          • InformedVoter says:

            You mean all the name-calling the MSM (Main Stream Media) did AGAINST president Trump? Of course I saw, and so did millions of viewers who don’t believe the MSM anymore than they believe HilLIARy.
            The MSM have demonized President Trump, but the voters saw through the fake name-calling.
            President Trump is 6 weeks from taking office and already he’s saved more jobs that Obama did in 8 years! Your problem is that you’re scared that he will succeed.

          • marriea says:

            And where pray tell did you get that info, ….don’t tell me the internet.
            Ok, lets look at this, the only jobs that Trump ‘saved’ were about 1000 jobs that were in line to go to a Mexiacn plant.
            There were over 2000 that were scheduled to move, and they other jobs that were scheduled to move are still going to be moved.
            The jobs were saved because Trump and his vice president made a deal with the company to save tons of money in tax breaks and incentives, which means that those workers will be paying for their own salary.
            And of course it would be Indiana because that’s where Pence is from and until the 20 of January, he is still governor.
            I get that you think Trump is the best thing next to cheesecake, but even this move is a con.
            Those jobs are ‘saved;’ for now, but there is no guarentee that those jobs will be there in say five years. That’s only 60 months from now. These people are making upwards to $20-$25 an hour….YEA..A
            Trump has something to toot his horn about, but will he be saving other jobs.
            He won’t be bringing back those coal miner jobs and lets say that he does.
            The plants are closed.
            Do you think for one minute that an owner is going to be paying the same salary to those now unemployed workers as they were payed when they left.
            Hell no
            If such a thing happened, then any employee would now be a ‘new’ hire, starting back at the bottom and your fantastic new president has said he supported the minimum wage we already have. At best, those new employees might get
            $10-$12 an hour with no benefits
            Pay attention!!!

          • InformedVoter says:

            The Carrier tally: 1300 jobs lost. 1100 jobs staying. These are union jobs and the workers will continue to get pay union wages. Add in the Ford jobs from the KTP, all UAW union jobs, so their pay will not be affected.
            And just today, from Japan, 50000! new jobs and $50 BILLION investment coming to the USA.
            Hell, that’s more jobs that Obama personally saved or created in 8 years! And President Trump hasn’t even taken office yet. Businesses are breathing a sigh of relief from the 2000 regulation Obama put in during his 8 years.
            I repeat that you’re afraid that he will succeed.

          • marriea says:

            Just saw that on the news. Now I only hope you and yours have the qualifications to get those jobs.

          • InformedVoter says:

            Sure, during Obama’s term, lots of jobs were “created”, but how many did Obama actually, himself, personally, get involved to create? I sure don’t recall any news story that Obama met with the CEO of some company and they walked out and announced that X number of jobs or $X amount would be invested.
            President Trump is a businessman and knows how to wheel and deal. Business owners recognize that.
            For the sake of our country (yours and mine) I hope the economy takes off.

          • marriea says:

            I know you seemingly take comfort in blaming Obama for all your woes, but actually other than the jobs that are given to one’s cabinets, and even that’s a stretch, presidents don’t actually create jobs.
            They do try and pass political policies that help companies that actually hire people make those jobs possible.
            Obama tried his damnest to to do that especially as it related to contractors that would help our solely need to be repaired or upgraded infrastucture.
            But Congress, who supplies the money and controls the countries purses strings wouldn’t pass the bill withour attaching certain amendments called ‘rider laws’ to the bill that would help their friends and folks who padded their pockets.
            Omama would then veto the bill arguing that that wasn’t what the bill was designed for . That it was for the people of this country, not to make already rich folks richer at the people’s expense.
            When some media folks would report the story, they would then leave out the relevant facts, and that’s what most people would pay attention to the bylines instead of the whole story.
            Look, I get that you so want Trump to come thru with the vision that you and many other have of him, as a job creator.
            And for your sake, I really honestly hope your wish prevail because of the many people who want to work in this country.
            But Trump has a history of not doing anything that doesn’t benefit Trump.
            You speak of the jobs that Trump created, but bear in mind that this man got an estimated $50 million in tax breaks for nearly 20 years.
            How many jobs did he create during that 20 year period?.
            And I’m not talking about the jobs that were had when he had contractors build his taj mehals.
            Bear in minds that these companies already had their crews as well as the sub contractors.
            When I think that even if he had taken $10 million out of his $50 million, think of the jobs that could have been had at if nothing but $40 thousand a year for at least 1 to 2 hundred persons, maybe more, for twenty years.
            Also bear in mind that most employees get tax breaks when they hire people and the govt itself get taxes from that employment.
            Yet now Trump is saying that this Japanese parnership is going to produce 50 thousand jobs and I’m saying that’s good and dandy, but what type of jobs considering that machines now do a lot of work that people use to do and now because of the way work is done, most companies only hire folks with some sort of technical skills that can only be obtained with some sort of specialize training or some sort of predigree, which let’s face many of those who are experiencing job lost don’t have.
            And also bear in mind that there are many jobs already to be had in this country that can’t/aren’t be filled because many people don’t have those ‘new’ skills and it might take at least two to three years to acquire them.
            I so hope your dreams come true. Heck I hope I win the lottery, but I’m also trying to be realistic in my chances.
            All I’m saying to you, is stop looking at the CAPITAL LETTERS that Trump speaks in and pay attention to the small letters, like in a usually contract that sinks us, me included.
            Take Trump to heart, but with caution.
            As always, good luck

          • dpaano says:

            Again, these Trump followers need to read ALL the news and not just the headlines. Leading economists and experts have said that Trump’s promise of jobs for everyone is totally impossible! Secondly, it’s a proven fact that whenever a Democratic president has left office, the unemployment rate has been exceedingly low; but after a Republican president leaves office, unemployment is exceedingly high……what does that tell you? Of course, the trolls on this site will not believe that because they don’t want to check the facts and find out that they’ve been conned!

          • marriea says:

            Yeah, that is so true.
            But I guess these folks need to believe Trump.
            I’m one of those persons that believes what Maya Angelou related to when she said ‘when tells shows you who they are, believe them.
            I first heard about Donald Trumps’ habits about 5 or 6 years when a customer who had been laid off work because of Trump and his antics.
            She had been an employee of one of the contractors who had worked on the Trumps Towers in Chicago.
            Trump enterprises had signed a contract complete with the money to be paid for the work they had done.
            After the inspection was complete and passed, his business refused to pay anything citing that the cost was too much.
            He threatened to go to court to get fees/cost reduced.
            Her company had a payroll to meet. So they ended up settling for a greatly reduced payment, which meant no profits and therefore he had to let people go.
            Her words at that time was ‘he cheats’.
            When he started running for presidents and it came out what he had done to many businesses, her words came back.
            Some might look at what Trump does as business as usually, until it happens to them.
            I really believe that his supporter were looking at his pocketbooks instead of his practices on how he has a big pocketbook.
            As I have mentioned, I’m a big fan of Judge Judy and the People’s Court.
            When one signs a contract, one is honor bounded by the terms of the contract, unless one is Donald Trump who has the lawyers and the money and time to wait a little guy out.
            These little guys have families and oft time people to pay for the work they do and don’t have the overhead to ‘wait someone out’ and have lawyers on his payroll to do so. He can afford to have continuences after continuences that can take years to settle.
            I hope that these people, his supporters, get what they desire when it comes to the jobs that Trump is promising. But as with everything, they might come with conditions and clauses that Trump don’t focus on as he hides them with big talk and ‘take charge’ attitude and talk..
            I can only hope that they don’t get hurt in the process..

          • dpaano says:

            Unfortunately, his followers will believe all the promises that he made until he actually hits them in their own pocketbooks….then they might realize that he conned them with promises that he has no way or intention of keeping!

          • InformedVoter says:

            But in this case, President Trump ACTUALLY was involved in the negotiations that saved or got a commitment to create the jobs. President Trump through out the challenge to Ford; he met with (also Vice-President Pence) the Carrier management; and met with the CEO of Southbank. They made a joint announcement.
            So you are correct about the jobs “created” by other presidents, but my point was that President Trump personally was involved. So President Trump did “actually create” these jobs. And he’s not even in office yet.

            Obama had control of the house and senate for two years. Any bills Obama wished to pass certainly got passed. But business climate is critical. During Obama’s 8 years, 2000 new regulations were put into place! That is NOT business friendly.

            I hope you win the lottery. That just sit back and see how many “friends” you have.
            Good luck.

          • marriea says:

            WOW,
            As I read your post, I would actually feel the emotions in your words and how you felt and feel about Trump.
            Maybe it doesn’t apply to you in the happening of what happened in 2008/2009.
            And yes, I realize that many prefer to gloss over the impact that Obama played in especially the automobile industry in saving and being involved in the jobs saved.
            Yes I realized that most of his interest was put on the affordable ealth care package to at least get it or something passed, and I was too one of its naysayers in thinking it won’t/ wouldn’t/ work.
            But then i talked and spoke with the many people who was happy with any help they could get.
            I would be crying like a baby when looking at 60 min when they had people who had not gone to a doctor in years, come on and talk about finally being able to go to the doctor to get treatment for some ailment that could have readily been resolved years ago with treatment.
            And I felt anger inside, when some of those same people who finally got help, died about three weeks later.
            I had a friend who died of cancer waiting to qualify, and other friends who would have had to spend there entire paycheck to get healthcare because of pre existing conditions.
            I thank God that I had a job that supplied me with good insurance and although I have since retired, and I qualify for Medicare, with that and my payment of supplimental insurance, at least that need is met even though it cost me over $300 a month.
            So to insist that Obama did nothing is really short sighted on your part.
            Yes, Trump did go to Indiana and yes 700-1000 jobs have been ‘saved’, depending on who’s numbers one is using and I pray that those jobs being talked about with that Japanese company is indeed on the level.
            But, I hope people seeking those jobs realized that they aren’t ile the jobs of old when all one needed was the will to work.
            Now one needs training or certified skills.
            Thete are plenty of those jobs around now in this country, but they are not being filled because people don’t have the paperwork ( pedigree) reqired to get those jobs.
            I will always remember my grandmother who was born in 1896 telling me that in her day, all that was required to teach primary school was an 8 grade education.
            Once upon a time the only thing required to build homes was the knowledge of using a hammer, saw, nails and perhaps a ruler.
            Not so anymore.
            I hate it when Trump speaks in capital letters getting his supporters all rifled up only to have them find out about the small print later on.
            I jave heard about how he plants seeds in folks heads then say that’s ot what he meant later on.
            That’s mental manipulation and it’s ot right nor fair.
            In his book, the Art of the Deal

          • InformedVoter says:

            Saving the auto industry? The auto bailout cost the taxpayers $9.2 billion in loss. The majority of the jobs from GM and FCA would have gone to the remaining auto companies, who would have hired to make up for the lost products from GM and FCA.
            So we lost $9.2 billion to save a few thousand jobs.
            The ACA is falling apart under its own weight. Almost two thirds favor total repeal or major overhaul of the ACA. How many of the folks you listed above have been notified that their premiums will be doubling next year? I suspect most of them. The ACA is unsustainable. Keep the prior condition clause and the children covered until 26, but make the premiums reflect the cost of the plans.
            Your 60 Minutes comments were orchestrated by the program’s producers. Just like the pictures of the polar bears being stranded on ice – the pix were photo shopped.
            Michael Moore was correct when he said, two years ago, that Obama’s legacy will ONLY be the first black elected president. Moore added that all of Obama’s policies came via the Executive Order route and will disappear on Jan. 21.

          • InformedVoter says:

            I’m not sure what you intended as your message with your link. The Rep party failed to deliver what they promised in 2010 and again in 2012. First the House, then the Senate and yet those GOP holders who got elected let Obama have everything he asked for. Personally, I love that President Obama is selecting business aware folks to help this country out the horrible economic mess it’s been in for 8 years failed policies.
            Regarding your comments about people finally getting health insurance: so why are we bringing in thousands or millions of refugees, and giving them free housing, free food, free medical, free schooling, and FREE, FREE when we have millions who are here legally and are citizens and they get nothing!
            We should be spending the money to take care of our own population first.

          • marriea says:

            When people come over here, there are organizations that sponsors them. They aren’t necessarily given any special treatment by the government.
            These organizations donate funds to the new visitors or temporary visas, so that they can find work, be provided shelter, food sources and clothing.
            Bear in mind that most of the arrivals are oft times educated ones and not like the ‘street people’ that we mostly think of.
            This is because many have spent a few years being throughly vetted before they are permitted on American soil.
            Many American are sold a bill of goods by thinking our government is goving someone from over seas something for nothing.
            This IS our government you’re alking anout and nothing in this country is free.

          • InformedVoter says:

            You are correct that SOME are educated. But the majority are not. They are not even literate in their native language. They are put on government aid from day one and get all the other benefits like health care, housing, food, schooling, etc. – free to them. Yes, FREE to them, but certainly not free to the taxpayers.
            Meanwhile, we have millions like the folks you cried about going without, not to mention the homeless.
            The organizations you mention are being paid by the government. It’s a profit endeavor for them or they would not be doing it. They are getting paid millions, and it’s not donations!
            We should be practicing “charity begins at home”.
            And don’t even mention about vetting, yes some are, but all the thousands of refugees coming from Syria are NOT vetted. Everyone admits that there is no data to vet them with.

          • marriea says:

            I don’t know from where you are getting your info.
            Those people can’t just get on a bus and ride accoss the ocean.
            One have to have a passport to get on an international flight.
            There a thousands of people who comes to this country that are turned away when they get to customs because they don’t have proper ID or have a defiinite destination as to where they are going to staying and with whom.
            This is where sponsors come in.
            Certain people are picked.
            I don’t know what protocol they use to pick some people over others, but once those people are picked, they are schooled into the culture that is American, introduced to our language, and definitely our our monetary system.
            Just because we have conflicts going on with certain countries doesn’t mean that we don’t communicate or have talks with those countries at all, although that’s what the news media kind of feed us or led us to assume.
            We have consolates and embassies for a reason.
            Many countries have to be paid monies for their citizens to journey to the U S, by the persons wanting to come here just in case those people who come here decide to not come back home by filing for political asylym.
            It’s probably a good bet that their government won’t return back that money if they do decide to go back home..
            There is so much more that goes on beneath the surface that the average American don’t see.
            But yet, the perception is that we are at war with a certain country, so that country is our enemy.
            Even now, there are people who come to this country from, Iran, from Egypt and every other country that the U S is ‘supposed’ to be on edge with.
            Think of all the Chinese people, and folks if they can escape, North Korea.
            There is a whole network that we don’t know about, but should.

          • InformedVoter says:

            You’re either extremely low information or very naive. These refugees, mainly Muslims from Syria don’t get schooled, etc. They are gathered together and placed in ANY state the government wishes. The planes are chartered and don’t fly into the airport’s general landing areas. No custom or immigration checks are performed. They get on the buses and transported to the region the government has determined.
            The receiving states can’t stop them and are usually notified just days before of their arrival.
            They carry diseases that have long been eradicated in the US, most don’t speak a word of English, many are illiterate, even in their own native language, most have no education.
            They immediately go on the food stamp, welfare, medicare, etc. rolls. The states have to, without compensation, find schools to take them and pay for transportation to/from the schools.
            That, marriea, is the reality of all the Muslims that Obama and his Muslim AG, and Muslim, etc, are doing. They are trying to undermine our culture. This has happened in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and is happening in France as we speak.
            That is the insidious plan Obama has in store for the US.

          • marriea says:

            Somehow, either you have been listening to far too much misinformation propaganda or you just have been looking at too much TV or a movie.
            But I have to ask, you seeminly have targeted your views at Muslims.
            First they aren’t as ignorant as you seeminly would like to think.
            Where did you get this idea?
            They carry diseases that have long been eradicated, although there seems to be an onslaught of childhood diseases that we have brought on all by ourselves.
            Why do you seemingly feel the need to put down a people you haven’t even met.
            You have a view that everybosy is working against you and you ink.
            Don’t know where it came from.
            The things that have happened in Germany and other that tried to help is because you have a scaredand hungry people trying to find a place to escape to,
            Many are sleeping on the grounds in the rain and snow under conditions that we deem as unhuman.
            But, with Trump, we just might get that chance.

          • InformedVoter says:

            I live outside the US for almost 6 months a year. About half that time is in Europe, so I have seen what the refugees have done to several countries FIRST HAND.
            I also have relatives living in different countries in Europe. Plus many friends and work colleagues living outside the US. They also provide FIRST HAND information about the religion of peace!
            I didn’t say they were ignorant, I said they lacked education. They have zero marketing skills to make them employable in a civilized society.
            A city in Michigan, Dearborn, is now just about completely under Sharia Law. The Detroit police will not venture into many areas of Dearborn, even to chase a murder suspect! Another Michigan city, Hamtramck, is following in Dearborn’s footsteps regarding Sharia Law. My travels (for word) take me to Michigan. I’ve seen this change to Sharia Law FIRST HAND.
            FYI, President Trump made the statement that 1000s of Muslims cheered when the 9-11 attacks were announced. The press got all over his case. WELL, he was telling the truth! The cheering was done in Dearborn, MI. The local news stations showed the cheering during their mid-day programs. By the time the 5 PM news came around, there had been numerous “calls to unite and go into Dearborn with weapons”. Sensing a possible war zone in Dearborn, the local stations removed their footage of the cheering crowds, and claimed it was footage from some prior gathering.
            I’m not pulling down people I have not met. I’ve seen FIRST HAND what these refugees have and are doing to European countries and cities within the US.
            Because of their liberal views, Sweden and Denmark let in hoards of Muslims. These countries have gone past the tipping point and the locals are afraid their country and culture are gone!
            Your claim about sleeping on the ground in the rain is pure BS. Those are the conditions in the camps. It is not the conditions they live under once they get placed.

          • marriea says:

            So now you wants to become Donald Trump, throwing stuff out there to see what sticks.
            According to your narrative, the folks cheering were not in New Jersey, but Dearborn.
            At the time of that attact, no one knew exactly who was behind that attack.
            It was only later, when that plane went down in Pennsylvania, that one could hazard a guess of who and what was responsible for that attack.
            And I was tLking about the camps that many of these people have to live in.
            I’m not unsympathetic to the nations that help the people, but the picture that you paint is over exaggerationed to the point of lying.
            I’m not being unrealistic in my view.
            As far a sharia law, it’s ot that I don’t elieve that it exist, it’s just that it’s not to the extent that you insist is here in this country.
            Especially in Dearborn. I have read that Dearborn as well as some places in Minnesota have a high Muslim population, I those people don’t want Americans or anyone else who isn’t Muslim.
            What you have written iny mind in fear mingling.
            I live in a very diverse area in my city.
            I guess one could call it a mini United Nation. All of the people, regardless of ethnicity, religion, creed, color, national orgin live together in peace.
            Every one respects the others culture.
            It’s just different from mine or anyone else.
            When you talk to others, one gets to see and understand that person’s ife and lifr style.
            There is no threat in their beings.
            I personally don’t know where this stuff that passes for the Americaism is tribalism and hatred that is ridiculous.
            And your view that these people have zero marketing skills is hogwash.
            As a matter of fact, it could apply to half of Trump’s supporters.
            Of course that’s ot reported.
            Hmmm, I wonder why.
            No one is fooled, most people already know.
            I so hope that the ‘conservatives’ get thir wish and Trump comes thru for you.
            However, considering how he gives folks a small slice of cake and claims he baked the entire thing, leads me to believe that Trump of old is still working it.
            He’s forever that conman working his next mark.
            Oh well…you were warned.

          • InformedVoter says:

            You just can’t seem to grasp facts can you. The reason they were cheering in Dearborn, was because it had been announced that it was a Muslim attack against the USA. The religion of peace has, at its core, the killing of anyone who does not accept their religion. When will you naive folks believe their own bible? Recognizing that the religion of peace is anything but, is not fear mongering. It’s understanding the situation and deciding to do something to prevent terrorists attacks.
            So, yes, the folks in Dearborn were cheering the killing of US citizens. The reason the local news pulled the footage for their evening news, was to prevent a real bloodbath, as word was spreading about a response attack by alarmed citizens.
            The fact that Sharia Law IS being practiced in cities like Dearborn has been proven. The MSM downplays it and tries to hide that fact.
            So everyone in your community respects everyone else. Wait until the religion of peace residents start their jihad against their fellow neighbors. That’s what they did in Sweden and Denmark. Germany is almost there too. Women don’t go out after dark because of ALL the rapes! France and England are trying to push back, but pay the price with terrorists attacks.
            Zero marketable skills, OK, take a person who doesn’t speak but broken English, can’t read or write English, has minimal education, now tell me how many of these intellectuals you wish to hire!
            I thought so – ZERO.
            So you’re now claiming that President Trump supporters don’t have jobs or zero marketable skills. 45% of college education females voted for President Trump. Since your side claims that women flee from President Trump, and that only educated folks voted for HilLIARy, how do you explain that fact?
            More Latinos, women, and blacks voted for President Trump than voted for Romney or McCain. The MSM didn’t hound either of them as they hounded President Trump. Voters saw past the MSM lies. Apparently, you’ve not been able to do that.

          • marriea says:

            As I asked previously, where are you getting your info.
            Probably from the same place Trump got his.
            You are a diehard Trump supporter.
            That’s your right, and when I post my reply to you, it my view from my eyes.
            Trump has shown me who he is by his actions and his words.
            I’m going to take him at his word.
            As the late Maya Angelou said, when a person shows you who they are, believe them.
            As I said, what you see and hear and I see and hear are obviously different and probably opposite.
            I don’t/won’t get mad at you for that.
            I won’t call you name or try and put you down for your view because you had a completely different upbring or not than I.
            All I will say in the end, is that my observation and reading about the man has not changed.
            You seemingly take his words to heart and don’t notice or want to notice the simularilties in his work ethics or lack there of.
            It has been my contention that one can’t run the government like one runs a business.
            It seems that you like that effort.
            In government there are certain protocols that must be adhered to, else one loses great talking point that helps peace talk continue.
            There are careful principle that should never be compromised.
            You and your ilk seeming want to throw those principles out the window.
            One sets themslveves up for playing the game’if you can do it, we can to, type of attitude which might be fine on a local level, but not so in our global world.
            You are seemingly OK with everybody having to adapt to your understanding of living a lifestyle that is not threating to you, regardless of the fact that you have not invited to do doing their ‘thing’.
            Trump and his policies are a menace to the world.
            But you see, that’s OK, because perhaps if he is able to shake up people like you who seemingly blame other for your misfortunes in the world, then maybe it’s a lesson to be learned.
            A hard lesson, but maybe a good one. One thing I will say is this, once upon a time when there were DeMs in positions of opposition, the GOP could could point to that as to why ‘things’ couldn’t get done.
            Now they control all three branches of the government.
            Why the ‘feces’ hit the fan, they can only point to themselves.
            That’s a good thing.
            I truly wish you well in your endeavors, my fellow American.
            But I pray your fall won’t be too hard.
            I will save our conversations so that you can reflect on your views when the fall happenes and perhaps you can then explain to your children why.
            The Muslims won’t be the ones who will lead to your
            fall.
            Best wishes and good luck

          • InformedVoter says:

            You are truly naive. You believe the fake stories from the MSM about President Trump and are convinced he’s a terrible person. The following link may help to convince you the MSM has been lying about President Trump’s character. You say Trump has shown you, well, your seeing is based upon fake stories for the MSM.
            http://www.conservativezone.com/articles/democrats-calls-of-racism-get-shut-down/
            The fact that I have seen, first hand, and read in the European papers what has happened in Sweden and Denmark, I guess counts for nothing, according to you.
            What is wrong about wanting to protect US culture? Canada has laws that TV and radio stations MUST have a certain percentage of Canadian-based programming. So does France.
            When immigrants came over in 1900’s, they tried to assimilate. The Muslims coming over now, want to change our culture to theirs! Wake up. For Sweden and Denmark, it’s too late.

          • marriea says:

            First, I don’t really listen to the news, that much.
            I take things I hear on the news with a grain of salt and have been doing that for many years.
            But when I hear what a person such as Trump and watch what he does, then I draw my conclusions about a person.
            You say don’t take Trump words seriously, but apparently you do.
            Trump seemingly caters to your own preexistant prejudices and biases about others.
            I have to wonder where they came from in your life.
            There was a time, I’m sure, that I had the same concerns, until I really took a hard long look at myself.
            i determined that it wasn’t them, it was me.
            I came to see that others wanted the same things I wanted and desired, but I was the one who desired a shortcut.
            They don’t exist. They can happen, but usually there is a price to pay in the end.
            And sometimes that pricetag wasn’t worth the time and effort ot get it.
            Muslims aren’t interested in you. You are interested in them.
            But you obviously lack the balls to find out about them and therefore reach for things that are untruth to make your point.
            That’s OK with me. If you like it I love it for you.
            But know this, Trump is a con man.
            And you my friend are his mark.
            He will use you like a wet rag and then toss you aside.
            But believe him if you’s like.
            You say he showed that he was telling the truth with ‘his deal’ in Indiana.
            It really wasn’t a deal.
            Not when you consider that those ‘saving of jobs’ came with a price tag that affect the taxpayors.
            What can I say. You are a true believer.
            Again, good luck

          • InformedVoter says:

            Unfortunately for you, you don’t understand Muslims. Fortunately for me, I do.
            You claim they are not interested in me, they sure are! Once they get here, unlike prior generations of immigrants, they don’t wish to assimilate. They wish to change our culture to theirs.
            Their religion is NOT a religion of peace. As I said, Sweden and Demark have already seen the result of their compassion as their cultures have almost been wiped out. Germany is not far behind. England is fighting to hold on.
            When a group wishes to change my way of life, my country’s culture and way of life, and I object, it’s not bias!
            If folks like you had been in power when Pearl Harbor was attacked, the US would never have declared war on Japan and we would have lost the west coast to Japan. Come to think of it, that wouldn’t have been such a bad thing!

          • dpaano says:

            Apparently, InformedVoter (who, by the way, is NOT so informed) failed to read the rest of the news wherein it stated that only a small portion of Carrier’s jobs in the U.S. would be staying in Indiana; however, more of their jobs and jobs with their parent company, United Technologies, would STILL be moving to China and laying off current employees. Isn’t if funny how these trolls only read the headlines and not the entire article? If they did, they wouldn’t be so “happy” about the Carrier deal, which will end up costing the taxpayers in Indiana in the end!

          • marriea says:

            As NY Times columist Paul Krugman has pointed out, Carrier will get tons of money in tax incentives. That means to me, that although these people get to keep their jobs (some of them at least) they will be paying for this via tax increases that they, the public pays.
            It’s almost like paying for one’s own jobs.

      • Independent1 says:

        And why isn’t he being tried for stealing money from his Trump
        Foundation?

        Trump used charity dollars for presidential campaign, report says
        http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article105849807.html

        Donald Trump Reportedly Used Campaign Donations to Pay Himself $8.2 Million
        http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/donald-trump-campaign-donations-report

        Donald Trump used money donated for charity to buy himself a Tim Tebow-signed football helmet

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/01/donald-trump-used-money-donated-for-charity-to-buy-himself-a-tim-tebow-signed-football-helmet/?utm_term=.ea4eb8625470

        • marriea says:

          I get that and I suspect that the GOP will go after him after he is sworn in,
          But I’m so hoping although I realize it ain’t gonna happen that Jill Stein is succesful in her (our) recount effort.
          But I think that the GOP is really just waiting and plotting the move to get rid of Trump as they for the most part see him as a HUGE risk and and even worst THREAT to our government.
          They now control all three branches of our govt.
          Maybe I’m wrong, but just think, if Trump is impeached, tried and convicted, all of those Trump supporters will make them pay dearly in 2020.
          I got think they will go after him until after the 2018 elction, which I advise folks in this forum to please learn who your reps and senators are and come out in force to vote those yahoos out in just 24 short months.
          Also pay attention to those state govt polls.
          I get that the DEMS have our share of problems, but right now we are so busy pointing fingers at our fellow Americans and the GOP have persuaded folks that they are going to get rid of programs that many folks don’t realize benefit them.
          In the meantime, Trump will start to show people what he is all about and it ain’t them.
          They will start to understand that they have been played royally and will look at someone to blame.
          Well it ain’t gonna be the DEMS.

          • Dan S says:

            We actually don’t need to even wait for impeachment due to our US Constitution. In Amendment 25 Article IV if a President cannot execute the duties they’ve sworn to uphold they can be removed from office if the VP & Congress agree. Very likely we will have President Pence under such a scenario because Trump is just going to blow it big league

          • Jim Samaras says:

            If it was that easy Obama would have been ousted 6 years ago!

          • You must have trouble discerning what is good behavior and decision-making from bad behavior and clueless political savvy on the part of Donald. Everyone across the globe can clearly see the difference between Trump’s character and that of Obama’s.
            Can’t you see the difference?? Would you prefer a consummate con man, a bigot and misogynist over President Obama? Does your level of morality and your “Higher Source” say it’s OK to make lewd advances towards women, even when you’re married?

            Even Nixon had better morals than Trump, and it took a 2nd term and Watergate to get him out. Jim, you really need to take time out and discard a “K-Mart” Higher Source, and adopt the real Higher Source—the One who your parents and grand-parents recognized. Surely, they knew better than you on this matter.
            Where did you make the wrong turn—in Lutheran School??

          • Jim Samaras says:

            Good behavior:

            Protecting Americans and their interests.

            Bad behavior:

            Going on apology tours making it sound as though the worlds problems are all because of America. Trumpeting Americas “mediocrity” and making excuses for our superiority.

            Get a clue Aaron and get off the religious soapbox please

          • marriea says:

            If America did something wrong, you’d prefer them not to acknowledge it.
            Is that what you would teach your kids.
            Maybe this is why much of it’s respect thru the years.
            The only reason folks deal with us is because of the money we give them.
            That’s OK with you.

          • Jim Samaras says:

            Let’s see what happens when the gravy train stops

          • JPHALL says:

            As usual you misread the point. It takes both the VP and Congress. Not just Congress.

          • dpaano says:

            I don’t know that that wouldn’t be even scarier! Wouldn’t that then mean that the Speaker of the House would be the V.P.?

          • marriea says:

            Not auto macticly.
            Remeber how it happened with Nixon.
            Spiro Asnew resigned, and Nixon tapped Ford.
            Then Nixon resigned and Ford tapped a Rockafellow as vice.
            I think the only way for the Speaker to become president is if the president & vice president becomes incapacitated

          • marriea says:

            I know, but I think the GOP is going to wait until Trump does something so scandalous, that they won’t have any choise.
            However, I do think they will try and help him along.

          • etherbunny says:

            Pence is far more dangerous! Ryan is a disaster.

          • dpaano says:

            And the two of them together would be Trump personified!!!

          • Jim Samaras says:

            I have a novel idea……go with the flow and see how this administration does

          • Independent1 says:

            Last thing America needs is for Trump and a totally clueless GOP to drive America and the world into just one more depression. They’re tough to get out of you know, and virtually everyone suffers.

          • Jim Samaras says:

            No one is as clueless as the current administration! What will be the drivel one year from now if and when things are going along swimmingly and the Trump administration is looked at a a successful one? Will you be embarrassed by the childish reaction that was propagated post election or will the boorish behavior continue?

          • Independent1 says:

            What unadulterated BS!! Trump isn’t even president and he’s already created a couple international incidents. There’s no way a total idiot with the mind of a 2 year-old is going to guide our country successfully. Anyone who believes that must think kindergartners could be successful presidents.

          • Jim Samaras says:

            Compared to the last 8 years I think a kindergartner could do as well. What incidents are you referring to? A congratulatory phone call from a nation we do business with? ROTFLMAO! Compared to Obama kissing up to a dictator communist country such as Cuba?Have we grown into a nation of weenies or what? We will lead from the position of strength that we’ve always enjoyed and China will have nothing to say about it. We will no longer be a squat to pi$$ nation!

          • Dominick Vila says:

            The difference is that China considers Taiwan part of its sovereign territory. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has claimed control of Cuba since 1898.

          • marriea says:

            Thank you!

          • Jim Samaras says:

            Then why does it have it’s own leadership and president? It wished to become separate from China obviously and will do so under this administration.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Taiwan has enjoyed a great degree of autonomy since the end of the communist revolution, when Chiang Kai-Shek escaped to that island after Mao’s victory. That autonomy is bestowed by the government of China, who never relinquished sovereign claims to that part of China, and reserves the right to occupy Taiwan whenever they wish.
            China’s decision to support this status quo is based on the fact that it benefited, economically, from Taiwan’s exposure to the West before Nixon re-established economic, trade, and diplomatic relations with China. Now that China has friendly relations with the rest of the world, and enclaves such as Taiwan – and Hong Kong – are no longer needed to trade with the rest of the world, and achieve their economic expansion goals, their decision to allow Taiwan to flex its muscles has more to do with the need to avoid appearing like an imperialist nation, than renouncing to their sovereign rights.

          • dpaano says:

            That’s why they let Hong Kong become more independent of China…..

          • Independent1 says:

            And guess why Trump was cozying up to Taiwan now, because he’s looking to build a hotel there and get favorable treatment. One more conflict of interest!!

            Trump Organisation ‘contacted Taiwan mayor about possible hotel investment’

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/donald-trump-organisation-taiwan-hotel-investment-china-a7454691.html

          • marriea says:

            When you mention Cuba, the only thing that Castro did was to tell the U S to kiss his ass.
            I find it interesting the hate that Castro has garnished on this side of the Carribeans, when the people of his entire country came out in force to bid him farewell.
            We hate those leaders who say no to what the U S has to offer.
            But, even though the Cubans didn’t have a lot in materistic items, somehow they survived without them probably better than you can with them.
            We put all type of embargos on that country, but yet Castro managed to do business just about every other country in the world.
            I find it funny, that those cigars that were banned, were sold freely in Canada, and if Americans wanted them, the ones that had the airfare or some other transportation, could get them.
            For what 60 years, this country tried to make that man grovel.
            Well, he didn’t. He lived to be 90 in spite of us.
            And as for those folks he jailed, tell me how is that different than in our country with our laws.
            Do you ever look at things other than a big byline…

          • Jim Samaras says:

            He has abused him people and those who were “mourning” him were forced to do so. Wake up from your left wing fog. He lived like a king until 90 while his people lived like third world peasants as they do in most dictatorships.

          • marriea says:

            Or so you have been led to believe.
            I’m not saying that those people lived like the folks in this this country, or so we assume.
            But all in all, the people of his country evidently loved him.
            They might not have lived with the excesses that Americans live with and a having a hard time keeping up with the charade, but those people had free health care and paid tuition all over the country and they are known as a poor country,,,by ‘our standards’.
            But I really have to ask, what did Castro do, that our government as a whole don’t do to non whites in this country, and it is especially brutal in some states.
            This is why most felons would rather live in federal prisons that state ones.
            Many states are now turning their correctional system over to private entities. Private enties are businesses working for a buck.
            There have many prisons that have inmates working for pennies, producing foods and doing other things that would cost lots of money in the open markets.
            The states have sold these people out.
            I guess America is still hooked on free labor.
            And we talk about Cuba?.
            It’s all American propaganda.
            Check it out and read abut yourself and some to your own conclusions, that is if you have the will and nerve to learn about the other side of our beatiful country.

          • Jim Samaras says:

            It’s because they loved him why they would risk their lives to come here in rubber boats just to get out of Cuba? Free health care? An aspirin and a band aid!

            The states have sold inmates out? They’ve screwed themselves and now must pay the price. They should earn nothing and thank God they live in America otherwise they would be dead. Let them build the roads again on a chain gang! FOR FREE

          • marriea says:

            Look, to many people living in what THEY consider depressed condition, and having relatives talk about and show you pictures of their life in the U S , yeah, I would probably risk a boat ride here also to taste that candy.
            But like him or not, most of the people in Cuba learned to live withour the glitter of the U S.
            It doesn’t matter to them that much.
            But when it comes down to raw suvival those people learned how to make do and life without.
            Unlike many of us here in the states.
            Now that the states have opened for free trade between the countries, those people have a chance to make lots of money in the process
            And what will we be still doing?, going deeper in debt to show them how to really live.
            .

          • dpaano says:

            Privatizing our prisons was the WORSE thing states could do…..these are “for profit” prisons and are only interested in making money! They bribe judges to send people to their prisons for that very reason…..even people that committed minor crimes and shouldn’t be jailed at all! This is what privatization does to many businesses…..they’re all for-profit and not for the country!

          • marriea says:

            I know. Ever read the article about judges in Pennsylvania, sending youth to prison because they had contracts with some company that operated those prisons.
            Incidentally, as a fan of The Good Wife, there was an episode of a judge that was a friend of the Will character, who found out that was what he ( the judge) was doing.

          • etherbunny says:

            I’ve been a Fidel, and, yes, Che fan since 1959. They’ve done more for our Western Hemisphere than we (USA!, USA!) have.

          • marriea says:

            Good for you not to buy into American propaganda

          • Independent1 says:

            I forgot that blogging with you is like blogging with the moron of morons. More was accomplished beneficial to the vast majority of Americans during Obama’s 8 years than under all GOP presidents since Teddy Roosevelt combined.

            And if you are so moronic you don’t think Trump’s calls to Taiwan and antagonism of China is a big deal, you clearly are a moron:

            See this:

            Trump launches Sunday Twitter tirade against China, this is NOT going to end well

            Someone needs to take Donald Trump’s phone away because he is on the verge of doing real, lasting damage to the economy and safety of the United States. This afternoon he’s launched into a Twitter rant about the U.S. trade deal with China AND the Chinese building of a controversial base in the South China Sea:

            The biggest foreign holder of U.S. government debt had $1.22 trillion in bonds, notes and bills in July, down $22 billion from the prior month, in the biggest drop since 2013, according to U.S. Treasury Department data released Friday in Washington and previous figures compiled by Bloomberg. The portfolio of Japan, the largest holder after China, rose $6.9 billion to $1.15 trillion. Saudi Arabia’s holdings of Treasuries declined for a sixth straight month, to $96.5 billion.

            http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/12/4/1607243/-China-launches-Sunday-Twitter-tirade-against-China-this-is-NOT-going-to-end-well?detail=email&link_id=2&can_id=a411792ec3538dd9b3c310bcf6fda8aa&source=email-buyers-remorse-begins&email_referrer=buyers-remorse-begins&email_subject=buyers-remorse-begins

          • Jim Samaras says:

            Name calling only make you the moron. Be that as it may why is it then that the dems have been losing seats since 2010 in mass numbers? Had he been doing the wonderful job for millions of Americans as you say his ideology would have permeated the country and those seats would be full of democrats. That however is not the case. People have rejected his socialistic vision by the millions. Those who pay the bills spoke volumes and will continue to do so.

            Get things straight. The call came to him in a congratulatory form. Was he supposed to refuse the call? Things will change with China in a good manner as you will see in the coming months. For their economic success to continue they WILL do it our way no ands, ifs, or buts about it. They have been taking advantage of our weak leaders for years and people like you have fallen for the BS hook, line and sinker.

            We ARE and will continue to be the biggest dog on the block and will prove that over the next few years and Trump will have these mice that roar eating out of his hand. Just relax and watch!

          • Independent1 says:

            I call you a moron because all you post are flat-out lies. The call TRUMP MADE to Taiwan was no courtesy call – you are a pathological liar!! EVERYTHING in your above post is a pathological lie!!!

            Trump’s Taiwan phone call was long planned, say people who were involved

            Donald Trump’s protocol-breaking telephone call with Taiwan’s leader was an intentionally provocative move that establishes the incoming president as a break with the past, according to interviewswith people involved in the planning.

            The historic communication — the first between leaders of the United States and Taiwan since 1979 — was the product of months of quiet preparations and deliberations among Trump’s advisers about a new strategy for engagement with Taiwan that began even before he became the Republican presidential nominee, according to people involved in or briefed on the talks.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-taiwan-phone-call-was-weeks-in-the-planning-say-people-who-were-involved/2016/12/04/f8be4b0c-ba4e-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?utm_term=.7ad3a3e48249

            Go stick your head in the toilet where your pathological lies belong. I’m through blogging with a total moron!!!!!!!

          • Jim Samaras says:

            There are no lies there so you’re still the moron in the room. She made the call. Now whether it was set up or not is speculation. But if it was why are you so worried about posturing that had been set up by the now, second worst president in the history of America? The time has come that Nixons view that someday we would have to align with Russia to keep China in check may have come to pass. China will be shown they may have been led to think that they really are something that they’re not when helping our economy but when no longer useful will return to third world socialists that they always have been. They need us more than we need them and they know it. There’s a new foreign policy permeating Washington for the better. Get used to it

          • dpaano says:

            Just block him…..that’s what I did. Nothing he says makes any sense and just shows what an uneducated, uninformed individual he is. It’s useless to argue with stupid!

          • itsfun says:

            The Democrats have lost around 900 State and federal seats since Obama was elected.

          • dpaano says:

            As I’ve said before….Trump is a “Twat with a tweeter!”
            Additionally, if China wanted to “call in” all our debts to them, we’d be bankrupt in a manner of days! Of course, that’s pretty much what Trump is used to, but he will learn very quickly that his bankruptcies were minor compared to what could happen to this nation if China decides to have the U.S. pay back ALL the money that it owes them! It doesn’t pay to piss off the guy that has loaned you so much money….Trump should be a smart businessman and know that….apparently, he isn’t as smart as he thinks.

          • itsfun says:

            The left applauded Obama for making nice with a communist dictator and hates President-elect Trump for just talking to a Democratically elected person. That should show everyone how Socialist the left wants our country to become.

          • dpaano says:

            Unfortunately, many believe him! That’s the problem!

          • ivory69690@yahoo.com says:

            ive texted many times the WAIT FOR IT WAIT FOR IT once this wait for it moment happen it will be dropping the hammer on the country (and world ) it will be like a working jack hammer working at full speed here’s something I texted about many time that will turn into facts >> A desire to fix any billionaire deficit may account for Trump’s decision to stock his administration with real-life tycoons. The way it works is that they cut him into their deals and he lets them influence tax and regulatory laws. This assumes that Trump might participate in such an unseemly trade, heaven forfend. << ill bet he learned this from his B/F Russia's PUTTHEAD he is and will make the USA the biggest joke of the world . heck while he may even be getting the country into wars . because the 5 time draft dodging coward likes to fight (SO THE CLOWN COWARD SAYS ) he isn't even in office yet and look at where he is and where his plans are going its not the DONNY DUMP plane crashing into a wall its the all of America plane he is crashing into the wall .. and the country has not seen nothing yet

          • marriea says:

            You wish.
            Haven’t you paid attention to the people he’s putting into his cabinet.
            When will you get it that you and his many supporters have been had.

          • Jim Samaras says:

            I have and am damn proud of those selections

          • Sand_Cat says:

            Yes, you certainly have lived down to everyone’s expectations.

          • marriea says:

            Well, good for you.
            If that’s your choice, then far be for me to hammer you for your choise.

          • dpaano says:

            Apparently, Jim isn’t concerned that one of Trump’s nominees is a convicted traitor who spent several months in prison, nor does he care that a couple of the Generals that he’s chosen are warmongers and/or were fired from their jobs for various reasons. Nor does he seem to mind that Trump’s main advisor is a racist and freely admits it. If that’s what he wants to be “proud” of….he’s really a sick puppy!

          • marriea says:

            Probably just don’t know any better.
            Many are still so incensed that a black man had the nerve to be President of this country, that even a con artist like Trump is better.
            Oh well, they just might get what a con he is.
            But you know what, Dpaano, I truly hope these folks don’t get hurt.
            I hope that we don’t end up with a repeat of what they say the 30’s were like.
            I wasn’t around and my grandparents were so ‘poor’ they really didn’t feel the difference.
            They kind of made it like the people did/do in Cuba, they learned to do without what they didn’t have and therefore didn’t miss it.
            But that’s not our reality today especially with the many commericials reminding folks day in and day out.
            To me it goes much deeper than the surface of what many believe and see and they think Trump is going to lead them to their desires and want.
            That’s not what he is about, but hey, every adult has to make their own decisions.
            I truly wish them well.

          • idamag says:

            That is like being proud of a snot bugger from one’s nose. People like Samaras no little about history and they will be responsible for the end of our democracy.

          • Sand_Cat says:

            God, you’d be funny if your hypocrisy and dishonesty weren’t world-beating.
            You’re an excellent candidate for being more clueless than Trump. I’m sure you idiots will pronounce Trump’s administration a success even if he destroys the economy and adds a few more wars to those we already have. And “childish reaction” and “boorish behavior”? You support Trump, and you’re actually so stupid and unaware as to talk about the opposition in those terms? They perfectly summarize his entire campaign from day one, as well as the fecal vomiting you and his other supporters did on this site.

          • ivory69690@yahoo.com says:

            you don’t say or is it all you say like DONNY DUMP all lies and the DUMPSTERS empty head full of B/S as you state ( will be embarrassed by the childish reactions ) just a little change of your forming of it (will be embarrassed )( A desire to fix any billionaire deficit may account for Trump’s decision to stock his administration with real-life tycoons. The way it works is that they cut him into their deals and he lets them influence tax and regulatory laws. This assumes that Trump might participate in such an unseemly trade, heaven forfend.) Are you going to say then WOW didn’t see that coming ?

          • dpaano says:

            I can bet that if he does away with all the great things that President Obama did in the past 7+ years, we’ll be right back in the same recession that we just got out of! And, from there, it’ll turn into a full-blown recession!
            I already read an article in today’s LA Times saying that Trump’s promise of lowering the unemployment by 3% is totally impossible! The article stated that in order for him to do that, he’d have to let some of those illegal aliens BACK into the country. Additionally, even with some finagling….there aren’t enough jobs out there to put everyone to work no matter what he seems to think or how much he bribes or intimidates companies into staying in the U.S.!

          • marriea says:

            That we’ll be back to where we were before, I do believe.

          • dpaano says:

            Even worse, trust me!

          • Independent1 says:

            If Trump becomes president, he and the GOP will do far more than reverse what Obama has accomplished. They will undo social progress that has been made over the past 60-100 years and on top of that, throw America into another Great Depression – and most likely the world along with it. They’re economic plans are nothing more than a recipe for creating a depression.

            Not one GOP president has ever been in office for 2 years without either a recession starting, or them turning a mild downturn into a full fledged recession such as Reagan did by doing nothing for 18 months to counter what was an oil embargo downturn when he took office. Reagan doing nothing for 18 months allowed a 7% unemployment rate to hit 10.8% and for the prime rate to hit 16% and mortgage rates to hit 21%.

          • marriea says:

            I get ya.
            But this is why I feel they will cut their own throats.
            The people who voted for Donald Trump were banking on everyone else suffering and not themselves.
            When the GOP screws up, and they will, I am somewhat thankful that as the ones controlling all three branches, they can blame no one but themselves for the fiasco that awaits them.
            You know that old story about the dog with the bone.
            They can’t resist to temptation to grab for more.
            But the many people who supported them are going to suffer and it’s going to make 2008 look like child’s play.
            More expensive items, inflation, job loss, more jobs being sent overseas and those who already money, getting over like fat rats, right in front of folks faces.
            If folks thin that the 30’s were bad, I suspect that for our own time period it will be worse.
            Might as well stock up on lots of beans and pasta and soup stock. It’s gonna be our staple for a while.
            I’m glad I live on the first floor. At least when I jump out of the window, the only thing that might happen is I twist my ankle pretty bad.
            Those living good, well it’s going to long fall downward.
            Yeah, folks are going to crying the blues, but they will have no one to blame but themselves.

          • Independent1 says:

            Exactly, which is why we need to get to Democratic legislators to find out why the Obama Administration is allowing a known felon to become president. There are numerous articles, even on the Dems run DailyKos which document the felonies Trump has committed. I’m having a hard time understanding why then, the Justice Department and IRS are sitting back and letting this known crook become president.

          • dpaano says:

            And, as I said before, you can GUARANTEE that nothing will be done once Trump is in the White House, especially since he’s been able to pick his cronies as head of the Justice Dept. and the Treasury Dept. You KNOW they won’t do anything against him.

          • Sand_Cat says:

            Yes, it certainly is: you jackasses lied and slandered the president from the beginning to the end of his campaign, then announced in the middle of a national emergency brought on by Bush and before he even took office that you would obstruct everything in order to destroy his presidency (perhaps the only promise the GOP has kept in years). What a lying hypocrite you are!

          • idamag says:

            Jim Samaras is one of those who thinks we should come together and make nice, now.

          • idamag says:

            I Will NOT Be Tolerant…
            By Unknown

            I listened as they called my President a Muslim.

            I listened as they called him and his family a pack of monkeys. I listened as they said he wasn’t born here.

            I watched as they blocked every single path to progress that they could.

            I saw the pictures of him as Hitler.

            I watched them shut down the government and hurt the entire nation, twice.

            I watched them turn their backs on every opportunity to open worthwhile dialog’s.

            I watched them say that they would not even listen to any choice for Supreme Court no matter who the nominee was.

            I listened as they openly said that they will oppose him at every turn. I watched as they did just that.

            I listened.

            I watched.

            I paid attention.

            Now, I’m being called on to be tolerant.

            To move forward.

            To denounce protesters.

            To “Get over it.”

            To accept this…

            I will not.

            I will do my part to make sure this great American mistake becomes the embarrassing footnote of our history that it deserves to be.

            I will do this as quickly as possible every chance I get.

            I will do my part to limit the damage that this man can do to my country.

            I will watch his every move and point out every single mistake and misdeed in a loud and proud voice.

            I will let you know in a loud voice every time this man backs away from a promise he made to them.

            Them. The people who voted for him.

            The ones who sold their souls and prayed for him to win.

            I will do this so that they never forget.

            And they will hear me.

          • Jim Samaras says:

            LOL…then the next 8 years will a miserable time for you and your kind. You’re a fool if you fight his policies. But then you’ve already shown that I guess

          • Independent1 says:

            No. They need to prosecute him before 12/19 so it’s clear that he’s an outright felon, and hopefully that will get the electors of the Electoral College to vote for Hillary and we won’t be saddled even with Pence.

          • dpaano says:

            But, since he pretty much holds the reins, I don’t think he’s going to be prosecuted for anything during his presidency. He’s already said that he’s going after the IRS (there goes the investigation into his fraudulent tax returns), and any other department that is investigating him or his Foundation! He thinks he runs the country with an iron fist, and the most we can hope for is that the Democrats and some of the more moderate Republicans (you know, the ones that refused to vote for him), will stop him for doing anything tremendously foolish (not that he hasn’t already done that and he hasn’t even stepped into the Oval Office)!

          • idamag says:

            Idaho had a senator like that. He went after the IRS and OSHA. People worshipped him. He got tried and convicted of a Ponzi scheme and was sentenced to prison and they still voted write in for him. In this state, the farmers are all against the gov’mint that makes regulations they don’t like. They have their greedy hands our for subsidies, though. The drive around with bumper stickers that say, “If you complain about a farmer, don’t talk with your mouth full.” and “Is your belly full, thank a farmer.”

          • marriea says:

            Naw, that ain’t the way it works.
            They can’t prosecute him for anything yet because first and formost, because hasn’t done anything yet, other than lie like a guy trying to talk a girl out of her drawers when he has two or three others on the side..

          • Independent1 says:

            “They can’t prosecute him for anything yet because first and formost, because hasn’t done anything yet, other than lie like”

            What? Did you check out any of my links?

            Someone checked his 1995 tax return and found he declared forgiven bank debts as losses (916 billion in losses) when they should have been recorded as income; on which he should have paid millions in taxes. So instead of paying zero taxes in ’95 and for 18 years after, he’s owed close to a billion over the past 2 decades. That’s clearly big time tax fraud. Al Capone got 12 yrs for $250,000.

            He promised Ben Carson a job in his administration as a bribe for his endorsement which is a felony worth 2 years in jail. And he probably did the same to Christie, Guiliani and others.

            He’s stolen millions from his charity foundation; and he’s still got a rape charge on a 13 year-old outstanding. Why are they not making one???

            The feds have way more than enough for an indictment.

          • marriea says:

            Right now, it would seem to opportunistic.
            I suspect that the GOP are going to wait it out until Trump, who knows absolututely nothing about American laws and even less about constitutional ones, makes a big booboo, because of what?, something he saw them do on TV or in the movies.
            The GOP has nothing to lose by waiting, and then besides, can tell the stupid public that they saved the country fom Trump and his exploits,
            But, they will argue, they have an ex Senator, Mike Pence to knows all about the machinery of the laws and Congress.
            Pence is to Trump what Marc Anthony was Caesar. If I remember correctly, Anthony took over after Caesar’s death.
            But Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, they are Longinus and Brutus, and they are both as devious as hell
            Unlike in olden days, they don’t kill someone with daggers, but you don’t have to phyically kill a person to kill him.

          • Independent1 says:

            What? The GOP has nothing to do with this. The IRS and Justice Dept are still controlled by Obama until 1/20/2017 when transfer of power takes hold. We need to find out why the Obama Administration is allowing a known felon to become president.

          • marriea says:

            I get what you’re saying and I so deeply share youe sentiments, but I first became interested in the impeachment process with the Bill Clinton debacle.
            I read upon Andreww Johnson’s impeachment and impeachment only mean to bring charges.
            It doesn’t mean conviction and removal from office.
            Nixon knew he was going to be impeached and probably is was a good bet that he would be convicted, so he resigned.
            Johnson missed being impeached, if I remember correctly by one vote.
            A good article to check out is one by Bill Blum in Truthdig today.
            He raises some very interesting and valid points.
            As for Trump and what he has gotten away with, he wasn’t brought up on charges by the FEDS.
            However it would be in the GOPs self interest to let others bring it to forth and light, and set back and wait for Trump to push the needle just a little bit more, AFTER he is sworn in.
            and then all types of stuff can be heaped on including that income tax mess.
            Remember, the POLS like their jobs. They are not going to quickly do anything that would put them in a bad light.
            And they know that if they get rid of Trump, there’s always Mike Pence, a piece of work in his own right, one of them, waiting in the wings.
            Either way, the people of this country is screwed for another 4 years.

          • idamag says:

            I think they think any action will look like sour grapes. However, we should forget about nice. We are not dealing with nice people.

          • dpaano says:

            Because they know that once he’s in the Oval Office, they won’t be able to do a thing because the person heading the Department of Justice, the Department of the Treasury, etc., will all be Trump’s cronies! You can guarantee that they will put a very quick stop to ANY investigations that are currently ongoing. The most we can hope for is that the State of New York can try him for something…not sure which one of his MANY problems they can deal with, but it’s worth a try. The Government certainly isn’t going to go after him once he’s inaugurated! It’s like putting the wolves in charge of the hen house!

          • Independent1 says:

            Exactly, which is why we need to put pressure on the White House NOW about going after Trump before it’s too late!!!

          • idamag says:

            Yes, why aren’ t they? As for relying on Congress, they are not a democratic entity any longer.

          • dpaano says:

            No, Marriea, he has done quite a bit….including tax fraud, his fraudulent “Trump Foundation,” his many lawsuits pending, etc. So, he’s done PLENTY that they could go after him for, but you can guarantee that once he’s in the Oval Office…..none of the departments that deal with this will do a thing because they’ll be run by his billionaire cronies! Why do you think he’s choosing the people that he’s choosing to run these departments? He KNOWS they won’t do anything to him once he’s in the White House. At present, the IRS is already investigating him for many tax problems….I wonder how quickly that’ll come to a screaming halt once he’s inaugurated! All he has to do is threaten to fire the chief of the IRS…..or will get his new Secretary of the Treasury to do it for him.

          • marriea says:

            Didn’t I read an article that their are certain departments that Trump as President don’t can’t control and it is under the control of Congress.
            If Congress doesn’t do anything, then they too will feel the wrath of the people when they really get they have been suckered.
            I’m counting on Congress to try and save their collective ‘arces’
            by any means necessary.
            They don’ twant to lose their gravy trains and many will rat out their ‘brothern’ in a hot second if they had to.

          • dpaano says:

            Probably, but not the ones that handle his problems…..those go through the Department of Justice, the Dept of the Treasury, and the IRS…..all of which were investigating him for various discrepancies. You can bet those will suddenly go dry once he’s inaugurated unless something is done before then! As for Congress, they aren’t going to do anything against him, I can pretty much guarantee that! There ARE a few moderate Republicans in Congress…..the ones that said they weren’t going to vote or back Trump…..but those are not enough to do anything.

          • marriea says:

            True, but remember, none of these folks are trully Trump friends and they are apt to kill him before he can do anything that will solidly incrimminate them.
            To make things worst and sound a bit ominous to me, it seems that Trump is balking at using the Air Force One.
            Does that mean that he will insist on traveling in his own jet to do official business, complete with the name TRUMP when he had to do overseas business.
            Will they let him do that.
            It seems in a way that they are willing to let Trump do his own thing and break as much protocols as he desires.
            But wouldn’t that come with a price.
            If he uses his own plane, will we be on the hook for it’s upkeep.
            There have been many planes that has disappeared in the vast blue waters of the ocean.
            Just saying.

          • dpaano says:

            I’m not quite sure WHAT he’s planning on doing since the current Air Force One is over 20 years old. If he uses his own plane, which would be difficult because it isn’t decked out with all the stuff that Air Force One has on board, he’ll just charge the American people for the use of it! Once again the taxpayers will be screwed! Of course, we pay for Air Force One’s use anyway, but Air Force One has all the bells and whistles that a president needs when flying hither and yon! To add all that to his jet would cost quite a bit!
            As for members of Congress considering “killing” Trump, I think that’s pretty unlikely. The most they can do is put “checks” on anything that he sends to them for approvals, along with the Democrats in Congress. All we need is 3 Republicans on our side to overturn anything….I’m sure we can round up that many if necessary, especially considering most of the things he’s saying he’s going to do are totally ridiculous and undoable!

          • idamag says:

            He has done plenty. You just haven’t heard much about it from a biased media. He settled out of court for his phony university fraud case. Nothing was done for his using his phony charity for a political pac.

          • dpaano says:

            I’m wondering what happened to the women who came forward and accused him of groping them…..is this case still open and pending? We don’t seem to hear much about it lately, but I assume we can blame that on our wussy journalists!

          • marriea says:

            I’m assuming that you are being sarcastic with your use of ‘phony’, right?

          • idamag says:

            I don’t have representation.

          • marriea says:

            Where ae you from?

          • marriea says:

            Then you have two Senators and many at least 3 or 4 members of the House of Rep.

          • idamag says:

            No, I don’t. Our state is so gerrymandered that the sage brush and the cattle have more representation than I do.

          • marriea says:

            (smile) (sigh ) I hear ya.

          • dpaano says:

            Ida….I’m sorry that your government doesn’t stand up for you and the rest of your state…..much like California. We will be praying for you and the rest of the Idahoans who did NOT vote for Trump!

          • idamag says:

            Thank you. We need it. Our electoral college is a winner take all. If 51 percent vote for trump, he gets every electoral vote. It is so disheartening to know that you have no vote in this state. Wisconsin is another bad one. I know a young woman who is on disability. She cannot drive. She must pay $30 for I.D. to allow her to vote. The problems in our state is much of it is rural. The wealthiest people in the state are cattle ranchers. The lack of diversity in people and ideas are quite evident. I worked with a guy , one time, who judged a transplant by: “He is so dumb he doesn’t know a doubletree from a singletree.” Most of the people, I know, have good vocabularies and diction. However, there are those that want everyone to thinks we are, “Waal dang now..” people. I don’t even trust the vote counters. Our state legislature makes laws against sharia and “stand your ground” laws. They tried to make the Bible our state book.

          • dpaano says:

            I just read something about some Texas electors in the Electoral College who have said they will NOT vote for Trump when the College votes. They said they will vote for Kasich or another individual. Personally, I don’t mind Kasich….he seems to be more of a moderate Republican from what I’ve seen (and I may be wrong). Either way, I thought it was interesting that they are now also trying to talk other members of the College into voting against Trump and their reasoning is that the Founding Fathers CLEARLY said the College was formed to keep demagogues from becoming the leader of our nation. If that name doesn’t fit Trump…..nothing does! In the meantime, he’s out at rallies getting all the adulation that he needs to bolster his narcissistic personality rather than keeping his butt in Washington, D.C. and attending security briefings and learning what his job is going to entail! To me, that’s being totally unqualified for the job of the President of this country.
            By the way, just heard on the news this morning that Trump is on the cover of Time Magazine…..guess I’m no longer going to read that magazine any longer! There were SO many other people that should have gone on the cover….why they chose Trump is beyond me! I’m going to use the cover as a dart board…..

          • dpaano says:

            I just read something about some Texas electors in the Electoral College who have said they will NOT vote for Trump when the College votes. They said they will vote for Kasich or another individual. Personally, I don’t mind Kasich….he seems to be more of a moderate Republican from what I’ve seen (and I may be wrong). Either way, I thought it was interesting that they are now also trying to talk other members of the College into voting against Trump and their reasoning is that the Founding Fathers CLEARLY said the College was formed to keep demagogues from becoming the leader of our nation. If that name doesn’t fit Trump…..nothing does! In the meantime, he’s out at rallies getting all the adulation that he needs to bolster his narcissistic personality rather than keeping his butt in Washington, D.C. and attending security briefings and learning what his job is going to entail! To me, that’s being totally unqualified for the job of the President of this country.
            By the way, just heard on the news this morning that Trump is on the cover of Time Magazine…..guess I’m no longer going to read that magazine any longer! There were SO many other people that should have gone on the cover….why they chose Trump is beyond me! I’m going to use the cover as a dart board…..

          • idamag says:

            I have a subscription to Time and I find some real journalism there, unlike the slick tabloid magazines. If Texas EC does, I will have more respect for Texas than I have had in the past. Trump isn’t the worst of our worries. If we had a decent civilized Congress, they could protect us from Trump. However, I cannot trust a Congress that violates the Constitution. Fascists are they all. Two things that are destroying our democracy: lack of real journalism and the alt-right that has representation in Congress.

          • dpaano says:

            Again, there’s an article on this website entitled, “A Handy 14-Point Guide to Identify Fascists Leaders,” and I recommend that you find it and read it! It clearly shows how Trump parallels every one of the points shown! If you can’t find it….let me know, and I can probably send it although it’s pretty long.

          • dpaano says:

            Again, on this website under “Related Issues,” there’s an article entitled “A Handy 14-Point Guide to Identify Fascist Leaders,” and it parallels Trump and his cronies to a tee! I highly recommend you round it up and read it.
            As for Time Magazine, I will no longer read this magazine because I’m getting sick of seeing Trump’s picture on the cover….and to nominate him as Man of the Year is beyond me! I read The Week, which is a great bipartisan magazine….it gives both sides of the story based on facts, etc. I find it refreshing because it lets you make your own opinions on the various things going on in this nation!

          • dpaano says:

            Marriea: Hopefully we DON”T get Pence and Ryan to run this country…..the two of them together are almost worse than Trump!

          • marriea says:

            I know.
            But I do feel they are up to something. And Pence with that
            fake ‘knowing’ smile plastered on his face.
            He knows that Trump doen’t know anything and just might help bring about his fall, which I would love to see.
            (sigh)
            Dpaano, we are so screwed.
            I so hope I’m wrong

          • dpaano says:

            YEs, I feel the very same….I didn’t sleep a wink last night and all I could think about was the problems that this country is going to see in the next 4 years. Luckily enough, I live in a state (California) that plans on standing up to him and his ridiculous ideas. They’ve passed bills in our State Legislature to provide attorneys for any illegal aliens, to put to a vote any idea of a wall being built between our border with Mexico, a bill to keep our state from providing ANY information on religion, etc., that would help Trump put together his list of Muslims in the country, and I could go on. We have very good environmental laws, as well as dealing with climate control, and our Governor says he’s NOT going to allow Trump to cut any of those even if it means going to Federal court to stop him! I can only hope that other states….like Oregon and Washington….will also do the same to stand up to Trump. As you’ve probably read, California is the 6th largest in economic welfare in the nation…..we don’t go down easily!

          • marriea says:

            Thank goodness for state sovereignty.
            Brown might make it to the White House yet.

          • etherbunny says:

            forget the ‘almost’ part!

          • dpaano says:

            Definitely…..my cousin lives in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and he said that everyone in Indiana HATES Pence and was glad to see him chosen as Trump’s running mate because that meant that he wouldn’t be able to run for governor again. But, unfortunately, they thought that Trump didn’t have a chance of winning and Pence would be out of politics for the time being…. however, they still voted for Trump and his cohort, so they’re stuck with him anyway. I just don’t want to see him and Ryan running this country…..they would be WORSE, or just as bad, as Trump and his billionaire know-nothings!

          • ivory69690@yahoo.com says:

            bad yes but there is no worse then DONNY DUMP

          • dpaano says:

            The GOP isn’t going to do squat about going after him…..after all, all his nominations to the various departments will NEVER go against him….including the Justice Department, the IRS, etc. He’s holding all the cards with the idiots that he’s nominating for those positions….you can bet that they will NOT do a thing against him! This is the mess that has been created with his election, and I see no way to get out of it as long as he gets to pick and choose who runs what department and who’s on his cabinet!
            As for Pence and Ryan taking over the reins….God forbid!!! The two of them together are just as bad as Trump mainly because they KNOW how to finagle the government to do their bidding unlike Trump and most of his nominations!

          • marriea says:

            I’m holding on to that 1% thought that someone with cooler head will get through to the bunch of screw ups that is now the GOP.
            But if they don’t, the fall of 2008 is going to look like a minor thunderstorm compared to what would be the fallout.
            I take comfort in the fact that they wouldn’t be able to blame the DEMS because they now control all of the branches. It will be like dejavu, Groundhog’s day, all over again.
            If people were crying about losing homes and jobs then, think how it will be if it got worst.
            Then these stupid folks WILL INDEED have to look into the mirror to look at who is the blame.
            I can see the Book Title Now:
            How a Conman was Elected to the Presidency
            (by almost half of the U S population)
            OR
            The Pied Piper of 2016

        • idamag says:

          Had it been Hillary’s foundation that had done the same, the media would have pounded it home with large letters like they did the e-mails and comey’s sleezy act. We hear about every fart Hillary does and they gloss over the real criminal’s crimes like they were little blips.

      • itsfun says:

        Obama and the leftist policies have made the United States a laughing stock around the whole world. Obama drawing red lines and apologizing to the whole world for our success shows what a loser the leftist are.

        • Sand_Cat says:

          You’re the only laughing stock around here. You just never give up with the lies and talk about the non-existent “left,” do you?
          You started with the lie that you didn’t like Trump, when it’s pretty obvious you support all he does. And you think he’s not a laughingstock?

          • dpaano says:

            Sand Cat: I have many relatives and friends in overseas countries….spread out quite a bit….and all of them have told me that Trump and his billionaire cronies are the laughingstock of their countries. The ONLY reason their leaders have played nice with him is because they are aware of his narcissistic personality and his threats of what he would do if someone goes against him. It’s pretty sad that no other nation’s leaders will step up and speak out against him! Apparently, they aren’t aware of their populace and how THEY are thinking about Trump’s election win!
            In the meantime, he’s out at rallies gathering all the adulation he can get to appease his narcissistic personality while he SHOULD be back in Washington, D.C. learning the job that he’s going to take over in a few short weeks! I’m not sure WHY our current administration isn’t insisting that he do his job in getting ready to take over the reins of this nation! As it is, he’s making a mockery of the position that he is going to take!

          • ivory69690@yahoo.com says:

            CHINA might just step up against the DUMPSTER CLOWN and who knows what then . im an American but if it came down to just DONNY DUMP against anyone id pick the other side . take this retarded POS out of it all heck make a deal with the devil sounds like a saver for us with that brain disordered POS . why not make a deal with the evils of ISIS just to rid all of him that couldn’t be no worse then him in office . the DUMPSTER dose have a brain disorder and should be a rule or law that one to get the house has to take a shrink DR. interview and a full psychiatrist examination thinking scan for what ever POS thoughts are in his empty only filled with his own B/S thinking head

      • Dominick Vila says:

        I can tell you exactly what I think of Trump, based on his past behavior and rhetoric. I see an arrogant narcissist, an ignorant, a man who respects nothing and no one but himself, a demagogue that does not hesitate to make the most outlandish claims and proposals to satisfy the gullible and advance his agenda, a misogynist, a racist, and a con man. Is that clear enough?
        My comments involve the need to reflect on what happened, learn from our mistakes, and take corrective action. Hillary did not lose because Trump won all red states, she lost because Trump won ALL battleground states and some BLUE STATES! Why? Because we did not listen to what millions of Americans were telling us, ignored them until it was too late, and left them with no option but to vote for the person that was promising Nirvana…while increasing his foreign investments and holdings. The issue is not whether millions of unemployed assembly line workers and miners are right. The issue is that we should have engaged them, we should have listened to their concerns, fears and hopes respectfully, regardless of how unrealistic their expectations are, or how misguided their conclusions are, and should have offered solutions they could understand and embrace. A politician that ignores his/her constituents is doomed. Hillary found that out the hard way.

        • marriea says:

          Although there are many who said she didn’t campaign in the rural areas, she did make overtures to everyone.
          She didn’t say she didn’t understand their plights, only that there might have to changes made in the job market they sought since those old jobs were gone or had been discontinued.
          She didn’t lie to the people involved as Trump did when he suggested/said/lied that he could and would bring those jobs back.
          They aren’t coming back.
          I get that Clinton didn’t appeal to everyone and I admit that as a campaigner, she was kind of flat.
          But I also recognized that that really isn’t her style as she really doesn’t know how to do that.
          I noticed when she tried, it came off as stiff and rough and insencere.
          She’s not Bill, nor Barack, nor Mr. Sanders, she more of a doer.
          But Trump., he’s an outright liar.who managed to pursuade a whole host of people that everything, every flaw he himself possessed, was evident in all of his opponents, even in his own party.
          My daughter says that people were turned by this status as a T V figure and as I’ve never seen his show, I don’t know.
          My own theory is that people were drawn to him because of his reported riches.
          But to me, at a bus stop, I’ve heard the same things that Trump has said by another passinger waiting for the bus, just as I.
          Indeed, there was a clip of three old timers saying as that he’s a businessman, that’s a good thing. Maybe he could fix things.
          Then I found myself thinking are there really that many people who were so incensed that a black won the presidency two times, that they’d vote for the devil himself, as long as the person wasn’t black. Boy, that’s pure hate.
          I found myself wondering had they not heard that this man was a cheat. That he called getting over at the expense of other including our/his own country good business and being smart. And if they somehow convinced themselves believeing in ‘trickle down, they would end up being left like the person who applied at his famous ‘university.
          Trump was crude, I wondered if they didn’t think somehow their susport of him would rub off on their kids.
          The whole city of New York found him to be lacking, and that’s saying something when it’s a city, the most populace one in this country, citizens say something is wrong with a character, then maybe it pays to take notice.
          I don’t know, maybe it was because of something Clinton didn’t do, but there was something so Pied Piper about Trump.
          I swear, it doesn’t follow on any level to me.

    • Elliot J. Stamler says:

      You’re right again, Dominick.

    • dpaano says:

      Sadly, you’re probably right, but if we stoop as low as Trump and his rallies….what would that say about us?

      • Dominick Vila says:

        We should never do that. What we need is a narrative that appeals to mainstream Americans, not only in populous, affluent, states but in the heartland as well.
        Hillary made a lot of tactical mistakes, such as telling miners that their days were numbered, ignoring blue collar assembly line workers, showcasing Mr. Khan, focusing almost entirely on ethnic and cultural minorities, and offering solutions that, while well thought out, did not resonate in much of the USA.
        I did not have a problem with her platform, and I still believe she was the most qualified, experienced, and capable candidate running. That’s why I voted for her. Unfortunately, she failed to connect with folks in States where evangelicals rule, where working class Americans are struggling, states with substandard education systems, and the resulting naivete that allowed a charlatan, with a record of outsourcing, foreign investments, and questionable business practices, to convince millions of Americans that he was the solution to all their problems.

        • dpaano says:

          I have to agree….however, in her behalf, she DID tell the unemployed coal miners that it was her goal to request funds from Congress for retraining so that they could get training and find other jobs. Other than that, yes, she did kind of skip over some of the more important things….either that, or she didn’t make herself clear enough. Perhaps we’ll learn from this and in 2020, we’ll get the government back (if it’s not ruined totally by Trump and his billionaire cronies). What we need to do now is to find a couple of GOOD Democratic candidates that can run in 2020…..personally, I like Javiar and his brother (of San Antonio….can’t remember their last names, but the one brother was QUITE impressive with his speech at one of the nomination rallies). I don’t know if we have any others in the wings that will be willing to take on the nastiness of another Trump campaign. I know that no woman will be brave enough to go through that….although Elizabeth Warren could probably take him on! But, hopefully, as I said, we have to learn from the mistakes that were made and move on from there. The most I can hope for is that Trump doesn’t take this country down to the ground…..from my relatives and friends in other countries, he is a laughingstock of many of them despite the fact that their leaders are kissing his butt!

          • ivory69690@yahoo.com says:

            however, in her behalf, she DID tell the unemployed coal miners that it was her goal to request funds from Congress for retraining so that they could get training and find other jobs. /// SHE SHOULD OF PROMISED IT NOT A REQUEST A PROMISE SHE WOULD IN THE FIRST 100 DAY SHE WOULD MAKE SURE THE MONEY WAS THERE NO MATTER WHAT . DONNY DUMP promised all kinds of things most lies . and things he would never planed to do anyways just tell all what thy want to hear . that was all that was needed to his BRAIN DEAD followers . as of late I watch the news and hear DONNY DUMP’S name I get a sick feeling I get more excited watching a clock then hearing anything about his B/S life or plans he is just there to make a mockery of the country . and heck who knows see he want to fight with China also so add end the world to the list . the country needs the CIT to come in and save the country asnd the world now

          • Dominick Vila says:

            She did. Unfortunately the coal miners that voted from Trump are not interested in retraining. They want the same jobs back, regardless of how bad carbon emissions affect the environment and global warming, and regardless of whether alternate clean energy is available. That’s what I meant by unrealistic expectations. She also had a comprehensive plan that addressed other issues. The problem is that there are many among us that don’t bother with complex, effective solutions, and prefer simplistic promises,

          • dpaano says:

            So true….and most of the Trump followers just heard what they wanted to hear and disregarded anything else! As you said, they weren’t interested in retraining, but they also aren’t aware that coal is no longer a viable product and is not being used as readily as it used to be by the U.S. OR by China. There will be NO way to get their jobs back, and I doubt if the owners of the mines will want to reopen them or add any employees with the coal prices as they are now. But, again, these people only hear what they want to hear, and they heard Trump say he was going to get their jobs back! It’s already been proven by leading economists and experts that this is NOT going to happen for them…..even assembly line jobs are no longer the same. These people needed to be retrained to deal with robots and more technical facets of the jobs, but they chose not to. Hopefully, they will see the light and figure out they screwed themselves because there are NO simplistic solutions to their problems!

      • etherbunny says:

        That we’ve gotten our mojo back & can fight!

  2. tbs says:

    Article is showing what poor losers the liberals are!
    Who they chose as their candidate had a lot to do with them losing!
    Wouldn’t it be nice if the liberals could, for once unite, without cheating, name calling, buying off the media to report what they want reported like communisim countries, and just be real Americans!

    • Independent1 says:

      Like with all right-wingers, your posts are a total farce!!

      Voter Fraud Is Real, And It’s All Republicans
      Read more at http://wonkette.com/562107/voter-fraud-is-real-and-its-all-republicans#isg1msFD7PjgWD1G.99

      Can We Count on the Election Results? Exit Poll Discrepancies and Voter Suppression Are Serious Issues

      http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/can-we-count-election-results-exit-poll-discrepancies-and-voter-suppression-are

      Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Confirms Russia Worked With Trump Campaign… but emails, right?

      http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/10/1595517/-Russia-s-Deputy-Foreign-Minister-Confirms-Russia-Worked-With-Trump-Campaign

      http://images.dailykos.com/images/322104/story_image/Putin-Trump_puppet.jpg?1478282997

      • Dan S says:

        Thank you for spelling out what should be quite obvious that Trump is in fact Putins Puppet. During the campaign it was Hillary pulling them & getting a less than Presidential response from Donnie. Now that task lies on Alec Baldwin pulling his strings every Saturday Night on SNL. I’d be fine with sour grapes ???? but this man sitting in the Oval Office is simply unconscionable & dangerous to the world ????

        • dpaano says:

          And he gets worse every day and with every nomination that he makes……it’s pretty sad for those of us who saw through him early in the game!

          • Dan S says:

            I’m cautiously optimistic that a President Trump isn’t a done deal just yet. First there’s a Republican EC voter who’s not going to vote for Trump. In a NYT article he clearly spells out how dangerous a Trump Presidency would be & is encouraging other EC voters to unite behind an alternative like either Mitt Romney or John Kasich who made a strong showing in the primaries. Also there’s talk that Clinton is releasing all her EC voters to cast their vote for another Republican besides Trump. If they do then they need 38 GOP EC voters to join them to block Trump. As crazy as this election has been anything is possible

    • ¢rÄbG®äŠŠ says:

      Who needs periods when you have exclamation points!

    • Sand_Cat says:

      Nice projection. Who was it that did the cheating and name-calling again?
      You and your friends are poor winners and a lot worse.

    • Eleanore Whitaker says:

      What it shows is that intelligent Americans know that there was NO way a Republican could win this election without rigging it. Why hasn’t Gowdy gone after the Russian hackers? Why hasn’t Chaffetz’s revealed what was in those DNC emails the Russians hacked? You may be the dumbest moron in this country. It doesn’t mean the rest of us are not onto your Republican election games.

      With 8 years of obstruction by Mitch the Bitch, there was NO way any Republican candidate was EVER going to be elected president unless they rigged the election.

      How? Simple. These criminals returned to the scene of their 2000 and 2004 Election crimes…subtle altering of votes, outright dumping of votes and worse, making sure they jacked the number of electors, “just in case” their gaming of the popular vote didn’t work.

      You must really think you are more intelligent than the rest of us. But you know what? You are now going to get the blowback you asked for. Trump is YOUR president. Not ours. Therefore, we go back to our Dem states, pull out our federal tax dollars, leave you to rely on your states’ tax dollars and refuse to cooperate just like your Republicans did to Obama. A real bitch, how does it feel?

      • dpaano says:

        What’s funny is that our wonderful Governor and Assembly in California are busy passing bills to provide attorneys to illegal aliens in California, to put to the vote of the people as to whether we want a wall built at our border to Mexico, and a bill that will allow our state to refuse to provide information on religion, etc., to anyone requesting it for a Muslim listing! We may not be able to stop him with everything, but we will protect our state as best as we can from his ruination. I just hope other states will do the same and stand up to him! I know Oregon and Washington are also thinking of doing the same. We are also going to fight any changes in our environmental protection laws and our climate control laws….even if we have to fight our rights in Federal court!

      • David says:

        Eleanore!!! Well, are you stupid or a liar?

  3. FT66 says:

    I don’t envy at all the Minority President Trump and his rallies. With them it is about anger, hatred and fear. No one achieve anything through these titles. Don’t they listen/watch Dr. Phil sometimes? They could had learned something already.

  4. It’s tempting to want to emulate the sentiments and antics of buffoons who are motivated by slogans and are only concerned with contemplating their own navels. But this would be a waste of time, and moreover, perpetuates the sense of rancor, disunity, anger, hate, and most of all keeps up entrenched in the notion that an antiquated electoral process like the one we now have is still viable in the “The Age of Maturity”. This era requiring reassessment of what worked before but clearly fails in today’s fundamentally altered world-wide social climate.
    Conservative attitudes insofar as maintaining old structures and old political methodologies are a handicap in today’s world. Conservatism of thought and attitude makes all of us spiritual and social Luddites, afraid to adapt and change even when the economy and social dynamics world-wide demand change. Adopting the new perception that “the earth is but one country, and humankind its citizens” is the way forward I would suggest.

  5. Miz Julia says:

    Since a good chunk of the American electorate likes being lied to and having their racial and gender animus stirred up, how would this work, exactly? And to whom are you directing the comments in this article, specifically, the National Memo? Who do you see getting out there on the speaking circuit?

    • Eleanore Whitaker says:

      Miz Julia, I don’t know where you live but here in NJ, you can’t turn a single TV channel without Trump’s face or mouth going like a Ferrari. On Sunday night past, I tried to flip through the channels and he was on at least 5 different programs. The worst was that Hannity tour of the Trump Tower mansion.

      I flipped it off in seconds. Who hasn’t seen Mr. Ostentatious Billionaire tycoon’s mansion in pure gold? He has more gold in that penthouse than George Gould had in his NJ mansion in Lakewood.

      • dpaano says:

        More gold than the palace of Versaille, which is pretty gaudy to my way of thinking! Unfortunately, I spent a very sleepless night last night and all I could think about was the wreck that he and his billionaire cronies are going to leave this country in! My relatives and friends across the seas, and there are many spread out everywhere, all say that he’s a laughingstock to them…..the only reason their foreign leaders are kissing up to him is because they have to deal with him and they know better than to say anything against him because of his narcissistic personality!

  6. idamag says:

    No, we do not need to start acting like the KKK. We need to seek more education for the American people. We are seeing the beginning of the end of democracy. Bullies are taking over. Trump played on people’s hates and people’s fears. He did not have to develop those hates and fears. Someone else did it for him. Trump’s win is not kudos to trump, it is shame and disgrace to a populace who can be stirred up enough to lose their sense of decency.

  7. dpaano says:

    So, we’re supposed to have rallies like Trump’s and allow people to act like idiots, etc. We expect our candidates to call people names, intimidate people, cuss and scream, etc? Somehow, I don’t think that’s what Democrats are all about, and maybe we should be. But, I don’t think I’d want to attend a rally like the ones that Trump held…..even if they were for Hillary or any other Democratic candidate! This was the ugliest campaign I’ve ever seen, and to think they have to get uglier for a Democrat to win makes me sick to my stomach! We don’t do things that way, and we need to find ANOTHER way other than Trump’s way!

  8. Thoughtopsy says:

    Alec Baldwin 2020!

    Trump the Trump.

    • dpaano says:

      I LOVE Alec Baldwin’s Trump character….it’s so on point! Of course, the Donald doesn’t like it, but then again, he doesn’t like anything that doesn’t cater to his huge narcissistic personality! IF he had HALF a brain, he would just ignore Baldwin and let it slide, but he just can’t do that! This is what we have to look forward to for the next 4 years if any country disses him in any way! He’s a “twat with a tweeter” as I call him!

  9. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    Well let’s see now. Those Trump rallies? In NY City, the cost of keeping security for Trump the Hump is already past $35 million. Now, NY City’s mayor suspects that all that Secret Service support to pay for that was bogus all along and now New Yorkers will get stiffed. So you bet they are rallying. On paper in a petition to FORCE Melania Trump to leave NY City.

    As for his rallies, if you know Trump, then you know he can only thrive on mass attention. His ego is such that without constant infusions of public attention in crowds, he cannot inflate his already too inflated ego.

    And while he has all this free time to rally, tweet and play his Government Contest games with men like Gingrich, Romney and Guiliani, he is overstepping his boundaries because the sitting president’s term of office has not expired and the Emperor Trump is already acting as if he is a sitting president.

    • dpaano says:

      Exactly! He should be staying in Washington, D.C. and getting prepared to take over the greatest nation in the world….instead, he’s out at rallies gathering all the adoration, etc., that he needs to feed his tremendous ego! I find that difficult to understand why our government leaders are allowing him to do this. They need to rein him in because HIS gang certainly has NO idea how to run him OR the government…..they need as much training prior to taking over as possible….especially Trump!

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        The minute that Carrier union boss said, “Trump lied his “ass” off” to the public, Trump did what he always does. He never once blamed workers when he slathered his lies on them to get them to vote for him. He and Pence both told them they were saving “over 1100 jobs.” That was a lie. He and Pence told them Carrier wasn’t moving its location to Mexico. That too was a lie. Trump lies so often, he can’t even remember the lies he tells.

        The thing about the Republican Party is they thought Trump would be the next best thing to Mom’s apple pie and sliced bread. They stupidly forgot that the only thing Trump has ever known was how to pull off one skanky deal after another. In order to do that to enrich his bank account, he used one lie after another. The “Art of the Deal” was more “The Art of the Schmooze” padded with one lie after another.

        So, it makes perfect sense that he only sees everything from that business prism he has lived in for most of his life. That business prism includes all manner of sexual deviancy, sneaky, underhanded and high handed wheeling and dealing and lies that he needs in order to “close the sale.”

        China is already laughing at us and saying Trump is the “tweeter president.” New Yorkers want Melania gone from Trump Tower because Trump, the Republicans and the Secret Service stiffed the city for $35 million in NYPD security and protection.

        Right now, the ONLY thing Americans must continue to pursue is uncovering HOW the Republican Party rigged this election. They are looking at the popular vote when it should be the Electoral College.

        No one is going to tell me that in Republican states where they redistrict voting maps to increase the number of electors that some of those Republican electors are on the up and up and didn’t get their palms buttered.

        Already one of the TX electors, Sutpun is backing out of voting on Dec. 19th for Trump. Another TX elector, Art Sisneros resigned his post rather than vote for Trump. Then, there is the GA Repubican Baoky Vu, who also said he will write in a candidate rather than vote for Trump. This may not change the numbers. What it does is prove that there are still some Republicans who already know this election was rigged.

        Now, we must pursue the fraud of this election with a vengeance, if for no other reason, than our constitutional right to clean, honest elections. Anything less is patent condonation of Republican election fraud.

        That’s also why Trump keeps making that threat to indict Hillary. Guilty men always deflect guilt. If he can indict Hillary, he makes himself appear the “innocent lamb” who never dared to rig the election. It simply is NOT possible to wrap any mind around the image of Trump as an “innocent lamb.”

        • dpaano says:

          Just read an article on NM, entitled “A Handy 14-Point Guide to Identify Fascists Leaders.” You can find it on this website and I recommend it to everyone to read as it’s very telling. Unfortunately, only those of us with brains can see where it parallels Trump completely; the rest of the people who voted for him apparently did NOT see this! Anyway, if you can find it here on this site, read it! It’s very interesting.

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