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Thursday, September 29, 2016

The first tax day since the Occupy Wall Street movement emerged is around the corner, and polls show most Americans think the amount they pay in federal taxes is fair, even if their richer neighbor is still getting off easy.

The Republican-leaning American Enterprise Institute released its annual compilation of public opinion data on taxes Monday, the analysis concluding, among other things, that the most unpopular burden is the local property tax, not federal income taxes as was the case in the Reagan era. And though the authors of the report conclude that ‘Occupy’ has failed to substantially change attitudes on tax fairness, one could just as easily highlight the consistent majority backing higher tax rates for the wealthiest one percent of Americans, a reminder that the movement was able to pick up so much steam because its core refrain has broad public support.

57 percent of Americans think their federal income tax is fair, but 59 percent think “upper-income people” pay too little. Though his advantage on the tax question has dropped since he took office, President Obama appears to have the upper hand, one poll showing him edging Romney on the issue and surveys consistently finding as many as two thirds of Americans support the “Buffett Rule,” the president’s proposal to ensure all Americans pay at least 30 percent of their income, including investments, in taxes.

Which represents a continued communications victory for the Obama team. As the authors of the report note, GOP presidential candidates typically clean up among voters most concerned about taxes; George W. Bush won the 9 percent of voters focused on tax rates in 2004 by a margin of 61-38 percent, according to exit polls. But Obama was able to effectively neutralize the issue in 2008 by flooding the airwaves with ads promising he would cut taxes for 95 percent of Americans. A repeat victory on the tax issue would be a key part of the puzzle in his re-election effort.

  • It appears that perhaps most of the taxpayers are seeing the problem. It is encouraging to see so many wanting to see the uber-wealthy pay a bit more. If these folks can maintain their resolve until November, perhaps they will vote and something can be done to correct our idiotic tax codes.

  • All anyone is asking is for the rich to pay the same percentage as everyone else. Have you seen Ryans proposal….”feed the rich.”

  • William Deutschlander

    All my life until Reagan, the very fortunate, who benefited substantialy from the sweat and taxation of others, paid a premium of appreciation for their opportunity to financialy benefit at a greater return. In fact prior to Reagan most of those who benefitted substantialy better felt an obligation to return some of that benefit, to our government, for the benefit of ALL!
    Since Reagan and the sly way they started to reduce upper income taxes, the wealthy have taken the Selfish, self righteous, Greedy approach, that I got mine and too damn bad for you, even though you made it possible for me to get mine!
    This is where the wealthy CONSERVATIVES, have abandonded the United States of America in favor of the minuscle minority in GATED COMMUNITIES.
    The common diligent conservative has not benefitted from the GREED and Intolerance of the wealthy conservative. I liken the common conservative to the Eisenhower Republican, a good solid American.
    The Eisenhower Republican Conservative operated his Corporation with a short term capital reserve to enable him to maintain his employees through economic downturns, maintaining the people capital as well as the economic capital in anticipation of the sun shining again in a short time, thereby assuring they would resume as the economy rebounded to prosperity for all.
    The MBA of the modern era does not subscribe to the conservative principles of the Eisehower conservatism, they subscribe to a disciple of “I take it all”.

    • ChristoD

      Well written William. You hit the nail on the head perfectly ! The most troubling aspect of the Ryan budget is its’ blatant pandering on behalf of the uberrich. One cannot help but wonder if Ryan may have been promised a comfortable financial future if he did their bidding. It is mind boggling in its’ lack of fairness for the common working person who have paid their fair share and their dues.

      • montanabill

        Please do me the favor of comparing the Ryan plan to the Democrat budget so that I can understand the differences.

        • tutidiez1

          The Ryan Plan wants to keep Low taxes on the Rich and cut all the social benefits from the poor, as most Republicans do, and Democrats
          want The Rich to Pay the same Taxes they did during the Clinton administration, which is the Fair and just amount to pay, we also want to modify Social Benefits so there is not to much fraud and waste, plus with that money create new sources of energy, invest in nnew Technologies and Research for industry, medicine so we dont get behind the rest of the world.

          • montanabill

            Write back after you have actually read and understood the plan.

          • montanabill

            Forgot to add that I requested the Democrat budget details and you didn’t provide them, just talking points.

          • montanabill

            Middle class taxes were also higher during the Clinton years. Are you ready for that? If Democrats want to eliminate ‘fraud and waste’, why hasn’t one single definitive plan been put forth? If you have looked at our debt and deficit, you should be well aware that simply taxing the rich and doing some minor cuts on the proposed increases in spending is not even going to come close to reducing the deficit let alone the debt. In short order, the interest on that debt will eat more money than can ever be raised in taxes. As an exercise, go to a government budget site, look at the growth in interest and the growth in entitlements. Add to that what the government now says Obamacare will really cost (and you can bet that is underestimated also) and see if you can figure out where the money to pay just those items is going to come from. You can also factor in what will happen if the President’s Buffett Rule passes and it truly brings in the projected $4 billion a year.

        • Jominith

          montanabill, The Ryan Plan wants to reduce the already low taxes for the 1% even lower using the same tired and discredited argument that the Rich will invest the money and create jobs for the little people. So “montanabill”, where are the jobs created with the Bush tax cuts? Clinton raised taxes for the rich in 1993 and despite the dire warnings of the Republicans of a looming depression, we had the largest expansion of the American Economy, 20 million jobs created, secured Social Security and for the first time we had a budget surplus in 1998. So, on January 20, 2001, Clinton, a “Tax-and-spend Democrat” turned over to GW Bush and the fiscally responsible Republicans, a $350 BILLION budget surplus. With his huge tax cuts and 2 unpaid for wars Dupya returned the favor by passing on to Obama a $1.3 TRILLION deficit – a $1.65 TRILLION budget shortfall swing in eight years – and an Economy headed for depression, losing 600-800 jobs per month. And to add insult to injury you Repubs blame the deficit on Obama. And now Ryan and his idol Romney want to lower taxes even more?

          The rest of the comparison of budgets you asked for “montanabill”, is very eloquently described by “tutidiex1”

    • Jominith

      Great description of the problems the middle class is facing today. Hewlett Packard was one of those Eisenhower Republican Conservative Companies run by David Packard. Despite being a wealthy millionaire and later a billionaire, he drove a buick, flew commercial and was paid minimal salary. In 1979 when HP hired a new president, John Young, he had to raise his own salary to more than $150,000 so that hp can pay the new president $150k. When he died in 1996 hp moved into the greedy part of today’s conservatism. Until 1996 HP has never had a layoff. That all changed a couple of years after his death.

      The US today needs a new breed of American Business Leaders in the Conservative mold of David Packard.

    • montanabill

      It is pretty clear Mr. Deutschlander that you never had the inclination to put forth sacrifice, dedication or hard work that was necessary to full achieve the American Dream so now you are envious of those who did. Did taking extra money from the rich in the form of taxes ever do a single thing for you? Do you have any idea of what the effective tax rate was for the rich before Reagan and after Reagan? Actually, the majority of the rich are small business owners who grow their businesses through the hiring of good people. They don’t abuse them because that’s bad for business. You really don’t know any of them do you?
      GATED COMMUNITIES…you bet and for good reason! Wise up. There are no GATED COMMUNITIES where it is not needed. Ever been to Puerto Rico. Every house is GATED COMMUNITY.

      • ChristoD

        Montana Bill huh ? Let me see, based on your ‘commonly accepted Republican talking points’, my guess is you either work for the GOP (as in they PAY you for this trash you write) or are one of those folks that have so much free time on your hands that you love to write this rubbish. Ya see Montanta Bill, us logically thinking, common sense approach folks THINK differently than you ‘what’s in it for me and if you don’t agree with my asinine beliefs you must be a leftest no-good-for-nothing hanger-on’ folks. I am 69 and worked my tail off for most of my life and retired as a Sales Executive with a pretty good retirement set-up that I took care of on my own with a little help from the government via Social Security that I paid for. So I feel TOTALLY qualified to call you out for what you are, an ignorant bully just like the rest of the right and left that have not EARNED the right to be disrespectful to us REAL contributors to our society. Not only are your comments offensive and totally unwarranted but your practice of personalizing your comments would lead to a walk to the woodshed with me for a little lesson in manners. When you can calmly, unemotionally, logically and FACTUALLY ‘discuss’ issues, a response will beforthcoming. Until then, go back in your hole and reset your alternate universe mind to todays REAL world and then maybe you will be derserving of some respect which you surely haven’t earned through your diatribes.

        • montanabill

          Sorry, just a guy who started working at 9 and decided that when I grew up I wasn’t going to work for someone else. I’m sure you worked hard, but did the guy who started the company you worked for, work harder to start it and make it grow? I still work in the REAL world and I’m trying to build businesses that create good jobs for people who would rather have a more structured life than that of an entrepreneur. Until you can walk in his shoes or mine, you have no idea what a load the government puts on you and most of it useless. By the way, I don’t have ties to either party. They both generally useless, but one makes more promises and is more generous with our tax dollars to buy votes than the other.

          • ChristoD

            montanabill. I like your response, measured and moderate. Changed my mind for now, like your response to MY diatribe. Good for you on the work front, we need more folks creating jobs so I appreciate what you are doing. As for both parties being useless, I couldn’t disagree with you more. There has been a movement afoot for about 15 plus years that was STARTED by the extreme right under Newt the Beaut Gingrich wherein politics became not only a blood sport but a destroy the opposition at a both professional AND personal level for the good of the ’cause’. What is the cause ? To roll back progressive/liberal programs that do not fit the hard right wing ideology of bringing back the robber barons and forcing their religious beliefs on American citizens. Nevermind that the programs are clearly absolutely essential to a thriving democracy and have beed EARNED by American workers or that they are DESERVED by American workers for making a good living and enriching the money providers. The right has ‘couched’ their revolution in terms that at a minimum are indendiary and worst case downright dangerous because they OWN the gun culture and will use the second amendment to justify continuing to swamp the country with all types of weapons including those that our troops use to fight wars. For one to say that both sides suck shows a lack of understanding that life is all about cause and effect. When something happens in a competitive world, the competition ‘reacts’ to the action and the left side of the political aisle has basically done that to a fault. Rather than take the high ground in response to the extreme rights ACTIONS, they have either felt forced into a dog fight and have reacted accordingly or aren’t smart enough to turn the tables and take the discussion to a higher intellectual and issues level. As a result the fear, anxiety, government loathing, negative campaign that the extreme right is wagging is dragging us all down. So my take on it is that the real issue is how to knock the extreme right on its’ ass and egt the country back to a middle ground where compromise and doing the right thing return to our political arena.

          • montanabill

            Just so you know where I stand, I’m not a social conservative. Whatever people do to enhance their lives or tear them down doesn’t get to be my business until it directly affects me or my family. I am a fiscal conservative. I started life extremely poor and worked like hell to achieve the American dream. Along the way, it became clear that living beyond one’s means was the sure road to ruin. Owing money is not a road to prosperity, in either your personal life or your business life. It sure as heck is not good for the country to be so far in debt. The wise guys in Washington think that we can reduce the effects of our debt by printing money. Our gas and food prices are a direct result of that policy and it is going to get worse. I’m a member of the NRA. I collect historic guns of the old west. I also have a concealed weapon permit because where I live, car jacking and home break-ins are pretty common. Law enforcement is always after-the-fact. They are not tasked with protecting us, no matter what their police car say.

          • ChristoD

            My parents worked in factories in New England and never went beyond the fourth grade in school. I, on the other hand thanks to their hard work and financial support, was able to get a college degree in business followed by a career in IT, marketing, product management and sales having achieved Director level positions in every discipline. Then I went on my own to become a consultant in these areas. I am a social progressive in that I look at life through the prism of my past, never forgetting where I came from, and what I consider to be good for America based on my fundamental Christian beliefs, what is fair and the right thing to do and what I believe to be good business. However, I am also a fiscal moderate in that I believe that social programs, done in the right way, are essential to our continuing to be a world economic power. As such, I believe we need to invest in our people at all levels of the economic spectrum. As far as the gun ownership issue, I own four hunting weapons, was a member of the NRA in my hunting days but have now have become an opponent of the organization. It is my strong belief that they have completely overstepped their reason for being. I cannot fathom why flooding the country with weapons, especially those used by our armed forces, can in any way turn out good. Believing in having the right to bears arms is fine with me but what is happening now is way beyond that and is mind boggling to me. Stoking up hate for the government with many of the ‘second amendment rights’ crowd can only turn out bad.

          • montanabill

            Perhaps if government (local, state and national) would quit trying to find ways to get around the second amendment, the NRA wouldn’t feel the need to be so strident. Under a number of proposed laws around the country, your hunting rifles would become illegal. I don’t hunt for personal reasons, but have a great many friends who do and I certainly wouldn’t begrudge them that right. Florida is going through a gun related incident currently. A young boy wearing a hoodie was shot to death. We still have to find out what the evidence shows, as to whether, the shooter is guilty of murder or simply protecting himself. The profiling issue keeps surfacing simply because a boy in a hoodie was a stranger in a neighborhood that had break-in issues. All over the Orlando metropolitan area, drive-by shootings, car jacking, home invasions and road rage are all too common, as they are in many other metropolitan areas. In most towns in Montana, you can walk down the street carrying a gun or rifle and no one will even take note, unless it is a tourist. There, guns are used for hunting and violent crime involving guns is unusual. I think a lot of people took note when Obama, an anti-second amendment guy, immediately starting appointing czars and indicated he wanted to start his own police force. Those kinds of things raised the hair on the neck of those who remembered another leader elected to power in a democracy and started doing the same things. Since Obama was never properly vetted by the press, he was an unknown quantity. But we did know he was from the streets of Chicago with dubious friends.

          • ChristoD

            montanabill, your response writes like the Republican/NRA manifesto on guns. Government does not only NOT try to work around the second amendment, they are in the NRA’s back pocket. Both sides, at the fed/state/loc levels. The NRA is strident because it quite frankly is catering to the extreme element of their membership, plain and simple. Hunting rifles becoming illegal is pure rubbish. Only tree huggers think that way and they don’t hold ANY sway, ANYWHERE when it comes to guns. Even if it were ‘proposed’ it would never see the light of day because it is extreme in the other direction. As for the Florida incident, I will reserve judgement until I see all the facts. I will say this, the recent law passed in Florida, of which I am a resident, is beyond the pale. It allows one to use deadly force to protect their PROPERTY ! Now tell me Bill, would you use deadly force to protect your auto parked in your driveway ? If you would, end of conversation. I live one street over from a guy who did exactly that, he killed a young intruder with a sawed off shotgun because he broke into his camping trailer parked in his driveway. Insanity ! I can understand why, in some neighborhoods, one would want to keep a gun handy but the way the law reads, there is way too much leeway, for my taste. Would I use a gun to protect my family, perhaps but enough of this extreme nonsense. Who in Gods name needs to have a 50 cal rifle or m16 or any other automatic weapon other than to kill people ? C’mon montanabill, use a bit of common sense here. Obama and having his own police force ? OK, we have hit a major road block. There is NO way that he would even THINK that way let alone propose it. You are now way over the line on the Republican nonsense. Not vetted ? Dubious friends ? He has been vetted to a fairthewell and altough there are some questions that are still out there, they are out there because the extreme right WANTS them out there and won’t let them die. The FOX News talking TV heads are notorious form keeping this stuff percollating. It is called politics. You are drinking the kool-aid on that one. Comparing Monatana to many of the states with much bigger cities is like comparing apples and oranges. Ask the police in the big cities what they think about the NRA and its’ obstinance to removing guns in their cities. I am serously questioning your statement that you are ‘independent’ since your e-mail smacks of kool-aid stuff from the extreme right. Let’s get back to LOGICAL and reasonable discussions where perhaps a middle groud is possible or let’s just call it a day and I will move on to more reasonable things that don’t raise my blood pressure.

          • montanabill

            Hey! I own a 50 caliber gun. Happens to be a single shot carbine that was issued in the 1860’s to some cavalry soldier. How you gonna hunt ground squirrels at half mile without a Barrett? But seriously, have you ever heard of one those being used by a criminal? M16’s are illegal, as are AK47’s. You can’t go to a gun store and buy one, but plenty of thugs seem to get them illegally from somewhere. I know the NRA seems strident, but without them, a whole lot laws would have been passed, including Hillary’s favored Federal Assault Weapon Ban. Assault weapons are full auto. That bill was after semi-auto guns which would have included the Ruger 10-22 (America’s favorite 22), any rifle with a pistol grip (Winchester, Remington) and a threaded barrel (recoil suppressors) and shotguns with pistol grips and a fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds (almost every semi-auto sporting shotgun). I’d go into the full details of why that was a super silly law, but it would take a lot of writing. I don’t consider myself a gun nut and my shooting is limited to steel targets on ranges. I grew up in a land of no fences and infinitely more freedom. It is painful to see what has happened to this country (I’m older than you).
            Obama’s police force: In his own words, look for the YouTube video, “Obama Civilian Security”. A national police force as well funded as the military. If you think he was vetted, then you tell me how he got into the schools he did, who paid, how did he get to be editor of the Harvard Law Review without having written a single paper? Did those who supported him not pay attention to the fact that he was raised by Marxist parents, says in his own book that he gravitated to Marxist professors and started his political career in the home of Marxist terrorist? I know only Fox puts these thing out there, but, holy cow, that seems a little troubling to me and I can’t find anything to refute it. The major thing for me was that I have encountered people like him during my professional career. Long on words, able to convince people they knew what they were talking about when, in reality, they were empty-suits. Or as the Texans put it, all hat and no cows. After a 50+ year career in all size businesses, you learn to recognize them.

          • ChristoD

            The gun thing is over and done with in this discussion as far as I am concerned. I believe strongly that the NRA is NOT good for America, period, end of subject on my end. Anyone that supports the rapid and voluminous proliferation of guns is VERY suspect for my tastes. The Florida law says it all. You can actually KILL a person for TOUCHING your property ! Pure unadulterated INSANITY ! Thanks again NRA. They suck ! As for criminals using automatic weapons, that is not the issue, it is those whacko militias that are springing up all over the place that scare the hell out of me especially since they have been whipped into a frenzy by the FOX News talking heads and the likes of Limbaugh and Hannity on the radio waves. Their hateful and incendiary rhetoric borders on criminal. I have listened to them and I am angry that they are making so many other people angrier by the day. That also includes the new Black Panther crap that is going on in Florida. The Obama Civilian security along with the Muslim, Marxist, etc. talk is pure BS. I cannot believe that an objective indiviual would believe that utter nonsense. I do not doubt that you read it somewhere but it is flat our BOGUS. Have you ever heard of forged documents montanabill ? Whether he ever was part of LEARNING about them and possibly even socializing among them isn’t germain to what he has done while in politics and what he has done while President. It is what he has DONE and what he stands for that matter. His past is one of learning and doing and growing. His record is one of moderation and that includes the new health Care legislation. He could have pushed through a single payer system but he realized that was going too far too fast. As for him doing nothing montanabill, you are showing your right wing colors again. He has kept us out of a freakin’ depression by supporting the financial rescue program, revived the auto industry via LOANS that have been paid back with interest, past national health care (a GREAT accomplishment for ALL Americans), killed Osama Bin Laden, done a GREAT job on international diplomacy and in the middle east (Israel notwithstanding) and would be doing other good stuff were it not for a Republican dominated House that has obstructed just about everything he has tried to do and a senate Minority leader that has brought filibustering to a new level in terms of using it as Senate obstructionism. Last point, I follow this stuff VERY closely and I can assure you that the only thing that I have heard from the Republican end is vitriolic hyperbole and ideas that will allegedly lower the dept on the backs of the middle class and at the expense of millions of existing and new jobs. Frankly, I don’t understand why intelligent people that learn the true FACTS aren’t calling them out for their utter disregard for middle America and their contemptuos support of the uber-rich. Tell me what I am missing montanabill or better yet, what are YOU missing that you cannot see what is happening ? This is not a conservative vs liberal issue, this is the uber-rich vs. the rest of us.

          • montanabill

            Apparently anything with which you disagree is right wing, hateful rhetoric and you are not about to open your mind to consider any other alternatives. His history is a matter of provable public record. I gave you a chance to actually see him talking about his national police (we already have the FBI and the Marshal Service) or you could have actually read the books he published about his life, but that would have upset your fantasy cart. If you actually think he averted a depression, you were no businessman. Good day, sir.

          • ChristoD

            While you play the classic ‘his history is a matter of public record’ card I say so long to you and your fantacy world. Remember he wasn’t born in the US but he really was….or is that not the public record you prefer to use. If he was 1/10 of what you claim is ‘public record’, he would have been either drummed out of politics by now or worse yet been put in jail. By the way, your cheap shot on my not being a businessman: a few facts. I joined a company at a Director level when it had revenues of $750 million dollars and when I left it it was at $12 billion in revenue. I created and controlled multi-million dollar budgets and many LARGE teams of employees montanabill so take your opinionated BS and shove it. It is a matter of ‘public record’ that the President indeed prevented a depression so again take your alternate universe right wing nonsense and stick it where the sun don’t shine. I have referenced the right wing nonsense simply because YOU were spouting its’ nonsense hook, line and sinker. If you review what I have written, reasonableness was center stage until you spouted your nonsense and then I simply refered to if for what it is, pure nonsense. No need to respond, sir. Please do keep up the good work and continue your hiring, it is good to know that at least one so-called Independent/Republican is contributing SOMETHING to our economy.

      • dipshit, where did you grow up? fantisyland? the ruling class inherated their money and their “place” if your great grandfather got away with murder and grand theft, you get to tell my grand kids to eat rocks? f-off.

        • montanabill

          My great-grandfathers were farmers. My grandfathers were a farmer and a second hand shop owner, my father a union craftsman. I guest it will be my grand kids that will believe I got away with murder and grand theft. Have a good day, loser.

  • montanabill

    The reason 59% think ‘upper-income people’ pay too little is the demagoguery the President is using from his bully pulpit. It is used to distract people from the enormous debt he is running up. The reality is that most millionaires incomes are from earned income and taxed at effective 33%. There is very small group who’s income is purely from capital gains. Increasing the capital gains tax would discourage investment in American companies and deliver so little additional revenue (if any) that it would only pay for a few days of deficit spending. Repealing the so-call Bush Tax Cuts would hit middle America harder than the rich, but then Obama is counting on them not knowing that.

    • EdC

      I hope the rest of you will excuse me, WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP. montana you have just re-aligned the rumor that people from your state are stupid. I hope you are proud. Get the facts straight, stop fielding the lies from the water carriers of the right. I hope you don’t believe that you are a christain, if so read the nineth commandment. Most of the defecits came from your beloved Republican party, and if they would stop trying to make the U.S. into a third world country even you would be makeing more money then you are njow, which by the way is likey you are making more now then you did when Obama took Office.

      • montanabill

        I think you just insulted everyone in Montana, which by the way, is not where I live. It just happens to be one of the few places left where the individual still has some modicum of independence. I won’t bother you with any other facts or figures that easily disprove everything you stated. They have this wonderful invention called the internet where you can access real information rather than opinions.

        • js121

          get more fuel against the plebians of the USA…..alecexposed.org

          • montanabill

            That’s good! An anonymous website full of left-wing propaganda. It seems to be from the Center for Media and Democracy. Are they as impartial as Media Matters or the Huffington Post? Try again.

          • js121

            A non-profit, investigative reporting agency which does NOT accept funds from for-profit corporations, etc.. It is important to all of us that we are as informed as possible. Can you think of ANYTHING as important as our Democracy? As for me…I WAS a republican until I realized what Koch brothers have in store for us-serfdom. It helps no one by arguing and closing ones eyes. Knowledge is empowering. If you can spend the time; however, revolted you may be reading it….it is the truth and matters to you as much as myself.

          • montanabill

            Get your facts from .edu or .gov, not some site with an obvious agenda.

          • js121

            Close-minded will only keep you in the dark. You think this is all so funny? You think we WANT to live under Koch Brothers serfdom vision? You have grandkids? I do and I’d like for them to know democracy. They are smarter than you and use igorance as a tool to further their cause. This is NOT a conspiracy theory…ALEC is and has been here since 1972 and flourished under Bush/Cheney who are members. Money talks; but, we still have a brain and most of us who have university degrees know how to disseminate information.

          • montanabill

            Some of us who have several advanced university degrees know how to do research. Be careful when you go to bed at night the Koch Brothers aren’t hiding under your bed.

          • js121

            You really think this is funny? This is NOT a conspiracy theory and if you spent the time to research, you would know that. Would it really make you happier to find out later when everything we had is gone that a moment of your time and attention could have stop it? This is our lives and unless YOU make $250,000/yr – you aren’t any better off than the rest of us. Serfdom, my friend, is everyone’s problem.

            ________________________________
            From: Disqus
            To: [email protected]
            Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:31 PM
            Subject: [thenationalmemo] Re: Tax Day Approaching, Americans Back Obama

            Disqus generic email template

            montanabill wrote, in response to js121:
            Some of us who have several advanced university degrees know how to do research. Be careful when you go to bed at night the Koch Brothers aren’t hiding under your bed. Link to comment

          • montanabill

            You look for the Koch Bros under your bed and I’ll look for George Soros under mine. This whole Koch Bros thing was dreamed up just to give the left an answer whenever someone on the right complained about Soros.

          • js121

            What I can’t understand is that you are educated and yet do not investigate this. Alec has been around since ’72. Koch bros are funding. 300+ corporations are members and all republican politicians/governors are members. A quick summary is: Corp sit with politicians. They draft/change bills they want. They vote/pass them on – boilerplate – to republican states. Bill GAtes, McDonalds, Wendy’s, Coke, Pepsi are now “out” of ALEC and we are trying to get the rest of them out. Bush/Cheney -members who let them change the laws to allow for this to exist. What part of that is Democracy? Do you not wonder how/why ALEC is so unknown? They just use the republican name for the base of voters who don’t know who they are. This is NOT a conspiracy theory, it is Reality. Study up on Koch and see what his ideology is = serfdom. As a republican, I do not agree with this form of gov’t and think that we should be trying to get our GOP back from ALEC. Sorry, but, ALEC isn’t in any of our interest and if you are NOT the 1%, you won’t be treated any differently than the rest of us. To compare ALEC to NCSL is like apples/peaches – there is NO comparison. NCSL alternates dem/reps and they both work together. They do NOT draft bills. They do NOT take corp contributions. Look at the bills they are shoving through…Most are ALEC creations and some don’t even bother taking ALEC off the heading. It would be a shame to find out later that we let this happen.

            ________________________________
            From: Disqus
            To: [email protected]
            Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 12:43 PM
            Subject: [thenationalmemo] Re: Tax Day Approaching, Americans Back Obama

            Disqus generic email template

            montanabill wrote, in response to js121:
            You look for the Koch Bros under your bed and I’ll look for George Soros under mine. This whole Koch Bros thing was dreamed up just to give the left an answer whenever someone on the right complained about Soros. Link to comment

          • js121

            What an insult to those of us who do have a degree and those that taught you. Education is enlightenment and knowledge for which your comments due no respect.

          • montanabill

            Education is 95% about learning how to learn. The other 5% is some basic knowledge. At least it used to be. Those that taught me (at 5 different universities) taught me that. If your college professors didn’t teach you that, they did you a great disservice. But now’s a good time to learn.

    • js121

      Sorry, Montana; but, that is incorrect. As a long time republican and having attended many meetings on strategy….ALEC has already given us the real truth AND the truth we want you to know. We object to paying more taxes and we want the middle class to end…Period. Now, if you are earning over $1,000,000/yr – join ALEC and fight the Buffet plan; but, if you are earning less – sorry, for your luck as our Ryan budget is totally meant to tax you for a Looong time, lol. Yes, we get richer off your backs – sorry; but, Koch Brothers are right – serfdom is what is needed in this country – vote for the Ryan Plan!!

      • montanabill

        Outside of your never having been a Republican and the rest is also lies.

  • Helene Gelber-Lehman

    That all depends on who they are polling. All of the folks I know think the rich should pay more. They never asked me nor anyone I know.

  • Helene Gelber-Lehman

    The rich have access to hi-powered accountants and lawyers who know how to find and use every tax loophole known to man. Many low income or mid income level folks without a college education don’t even know how many tax loopholes they could crawl through, nor are they aware of the fact that rich folks do know and do crawl or drive a mac truck load of tax rite-offs thru every loophole they can find. Unfortunately, a good education and good common sense and discernment ability is not a requirement for voting or for being subjects in a poll. Until we improve our public education to enlighten students, K-12 on all the facts of economic life, and imbue them with better critical thinking skills, the likes of republicans like Rush Limbaugh will undoubtedly sway far too many by his emotionally inflammatory rhetoric and those who are in the less advantageous position of being without the ability to analyze and evaluate that kind of rhetoric.
    This is the crux of the problem in this country. There should be some minimum requirements for graduating from H.S. re: economics, analysis of political rhetoric, critical thinking, etc. and educational requirements or the equivalent, before one has a right to vote. Otherwise we will have voters chosing our legislators –as they have been– based on emotions and not logic, facts or harsh realities of life, about which, they are unaware.
    Not all educated people are necessarily smart -I know many who lack the common sense of the blue collar worker– but we need to improve our citizens ability to see through the ‘crapola’ hurled by politicians. The news media attempts to cut through some of it, but of late, they too have their own agenda and cannot always be relied on to help the common citizen discover all the truths and fallacies that comes out of politicians’ mouths.
    What appears to be a better way, would be to disallow all political advertisements; lower the maiximum political campaign contribution to $2,000. per individual, business, corporation or institution and have several comprehensive televised debates on all the issues and platforms with news media able to then analyze what they say.
    This would make it possible for even poo folks to run for office and our candidates would not be bought by the likes of Grover Norquist.

    • Christian Martin

      Well put. Too bad the original intention of being taxed upon a certain percentage your earnings has gone so astray. The current atmosphere of the subject would encourage me to vote for a flat tax….something I would not have voted for just 10 years ago. I have always thought millionaires should pay slightly higher taxes than the middle-class and below. I am always shocked and irritated at the new and devisive ways that the wealthy come up with to wind up paying less of a percentage than the rest of us.

  • EdC

    Some time back a Republican Represenitive made the statement that the liberals should come to Jesus, during one of the many battles where they tried to break their contract with Seniors, who worked all their lives. However it looks like maybe the Republicans are coming to Jesus, in realizing that we are all suppose to be treated fairly. Scripture of James 2:8-9 tells it like it is, I’m not going to print it here because one needs to read it for themselves, especially the honorable Reverends Huckabe, Swaggart, the Grahams. While they are at it they should also read the Ninth Commandment. I’m kind of partial to Zechariah 8:16 and 17. If you are a Christain, (Conservative or not) it would be wise to read these scriptures.

  • tutidiez1

    The whole Problem began when Money stated running the Govenment and the Elections, and Lobbyist started making the laws in favor of the Rich and the big Corporations, this is going to take a Revolution from the mayority of Americans (Middle Class) to change this Country Back to the way it was 50 years ago when it was fairness and justice for employees and Bisiness were making a lot of money for themselves, but unfortunately today Most of the Rich and Big Corps are not and never will be satified with all the billions they are making, at the Middle Class Cost, There is not Excuse for such a high price of health care, probably the number one reason for this country misfortune, all becasuse of their greed, how is that possible that this companies have billions of Dollars in Profit every year, and their Fat Cats Do not have enough with their huge Salaries but they also have to have 10 even 15 or 20 million Dollars in Bonuses every year, but when they are ask to pay a little more for the Benefit of the Country and everybody the Republicans Right Wing fight to the dead to avoid this Justifiable ands Fair act, this way this wonderful country is never going to recover to the way it always Represented, Opportunity, Progress, Happiness and Justice for all.

  • ialady

    It’s ironic that people don’t understand that, as money from federal and state governments for local programs dries up, property taxes will rise.

    • tutidiez1

      We are not talking about Property Taxes even they are Obnoxious and specially unjust when poor people paid for their homes and this Taxes becomes their nightmare, specially for old retired Folks, it is as your home is never yours, but right now we are talking about the Taxes that people paid every year specially the Rich.

  • Simple: Trickle down economics never worked; Reagan caused recession and rust belt in late 80s, Bush caused great recession in 2008. The rich earn more money so should pay more money, aren’t our middle class wages taxed sliding scale?

  • howa4x

    Reagan will go down as one of the worst presidents of the modern era next to W. He presided over the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper 1% in US history. This was coupled with an unparralled buildup of our military at a time when the Soviet Union was implouding. During his term 9.2% unemployment was common. He and Gerorge W Bush created a 1% whose wealth towers a whopping 256% above the middle class through reclass tax cuts targeted at one group. The real fools in this are all the rank and file republicans who think he was the greatest. He did raise taxes 6 times and most Republicans can’t remember that especially Grover Norquist who made every republican sign that ridiculas pledge of no new taxes, even though every sane economist says you can’t cut the deficit with cuts alone. Republicans need to be taken to the woodshed on this.

  • the very rich should pay more taxes then us of middle class it is only fair

  • if you have been brainwashed by our sad public schools and the rich controlled “news” outlets how are you supposed to know your being screwed to the floor? most people don’t have time to really learn anything, too busy trying to survive, or too dumb to know the $hitty end is all they will ever see.

  • in responce to w.deutschlander, it started when prescot bush did not get exicuted for treason. the rest is a direct result of the bush agenda. from neils’ theft of the savings and loan industry to w’s theft of 2 elections. ( altho w. couldnt get his self out of an open sack) even barbra gets into the game with her texass school money scam with good ol’ neils fraudent computer deal. (purple cow)gotta love thoese nazi bastards. between j.p.morgan and the bush family there is not a hope of getting a break in this country unless you are born into one of the ” quality” familys time for the citizens to shake the leaches off. the french figured it out, i say “face up ” would work better.

  • never forget who, and how this country was built. mass murder, slavory and lies. oh yeah and taxs’. the old money is never going to play nice, or fair. get over having a ” free” country. not in the plan. if the working class manages to keep anything close to dignity, it will be a miracle. we no longer have a bill of rights, or a constition. we have a ” patriot act” the last guy who wanted us to have a fair chance was j.f.k. you do rember what the bushits did to him? we have a puppet government owned and controlled by the far right get used to it. all this other crap is just smoke and mirrors. so we don’t pay any mind to the man behind the curtain. the crusades never ended, they just changed the name of the game.

  • montanabill

    Clinton, a tax and spend Democrat, had Newt Gingrich forcing him to accept a balanced budget and welfare cuts. Bush, who had a Democrat congress, didn’t have the guts to veto their spending bills. I know you are now thinking about the Iraq war, but remember top Democrats, including Hillary approved it before they disapproved it which by then was hindsight.

  • business needs to be in the black on their books ,that’s their means of staying in afloat so they can continue to grow & expand; with a honest relation between employer & employee. it’s a shame that certain groups advocate that organized labor is not cost effective . i’ve been on both sides of the fence ; it’s the membership it’s self, within it’s structure to strive for honest days work – for an honest days wages . now what the HELL is wrong with that motto ?