By Leonard Pitts Jr.

Too Many People Who Should Not Have Guns, Do

December 24, 2012 12:00 am Category: Memo Pad 127 Comments A+ / A-
Too Many People Who Should Not Have Guns, Do

On the day after the recent massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, CT, police in Newport Beach, CA, took a man into custody for allegedly firing more than 50 rounds from a semi-automatic handgun in the parking lot of a shopping mall. He aimed into the air and no one was hit, though one person was hurt slightly while running away. Police say 42-year-old Marcos Gurrola was destitute and frustrated with his circumstances. Firing dozens of rounds at the sky was his way of venting.

If there is a more apt metaphor for where this nation now finds itself than some fool standing befuddled as bullets rain down about him, one finds it hard to imagine.

Come, then. Let us weep for the 20 children shot to pieces by the young man who invaded their elementary school wielding semi-automatic weapons. Let us mourn for the six adults who could not save the children, could not save themselves, who died as the children died, shot multiple times at close range. Let us whisper our sorrows and shed our tears. Let us stagger against one another in our mountainous grief. Let us light our candles and leave them at makeshift shrines to be cared for by the uncaring sun and rain.

But let us also understand these as acts of moral masturbation, in that they satisfy some need, yet have no chance of producing anything of lasting consequence. Let us not pretend our sorrow in this moment means a damn thing or changes a damn thing, because it doesn’t and won’t. Not until or unless the American nation is finally willing to confront its unholy gun love.

The parameters of this argument have not changed for generations. On the one side are people who enjoy hunting for sport or sustenance and people who, when bad guys come through the door, want to have more in their hands than just hands. They are, by and large, decent and responsible individuals who know and respect guns and resent any suggestion that they are not trustworthy to own them.

On the other side are equally decent and responsible people who think we ought to take reasonable steps to ensure that children, emotionally disturbed individuals and violent felons have no access to guns, people who believe no hunter requires 30 rounds to bag a deer and no homeowner not expecting to be attacked by a band of ninjas has need of an AK-47 to protect her property.

There is, you will notice, nothing about one side of that argument that precludes the other. Reasonable people who had their country’s best interests at heart could have bridged the distance between the two many dead bodies ago.

Such people are, unfortunately, in woefully short supply.

What are rather more plentiful are lawmakers in thrall to the gun lobby and to an ideology that finds more to fear in a paranoid fantasy (jackbooted government thugs coming to seize your guns) than in an objective reality (innocent people repeatedly, senselessly, unnecessarily dying).

Is this where that changes? Maybe.

Pages →  1 2

Too Many People Who Should Not Have Guns, Do Reviewed by on . On the day after the recent massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, CT, police in Newport Beach, CA, took a man into custody for allegedly firing more than On the day after the recent massacre at an elementary school in Newtown, CT, police in Newport Beach, CA, took a man into custody for allegedly firing more than Rating:

More by Leonard Pitts Jr.

Redskins

From Manhattan To Washington, American Indians Get Snookered

Twenty-four dollars. That, supposedly, was the price Governor Peter Minuit paid American Indians for the island of Manhattan in 1625. It’s a tale historians find suspect. In the first place, whatever Minuit paid was in goods valued at 60 17th-century Dutch guilders; the calculation that this equaled 24 U.S. dollars was made two centuries later

Read more...

Malaysia flight 370 mural

…And This Is The Overkill News Network

Enough, already. Please, for the love of Cronkite: Give us a break from the missing plane. Yes, we all wonder what happened to it. Yes, our hearts go out to the families seeking resolution. But really, CNN … enough. Put your hands up and step away from the story. I’m in the doctor’s office the

Read more...

800px-Sheldon_Adelson_21_June_2010

Wake Up, People, And See The Danger We’re In

This is a column about campaign finance reform. And your eyes glazed over just then, didn’t they? That’s the problem with this problem. Americans know that government truly of, by and for the people is unlikely if not impossible so long as the system is polluted by billions of dollars in contributions from corporations and

Read more...

Tags

Comments

  • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

    The fact that people who should not own a gun are able to buy one is a major problem, but having mini-arsenals laying around in our houses is just as bad.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

      The main people we can’t trust with a firearm are those who want to join the police and military. How many Rodney Kings will it take before you understand that. Average citizens are not perfect, but far better record then the police or military.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

      And who gets to decide who gets to own firearms? When did we become a 2 class society, with one part deciding if the other part can be trusted with firearms? We know the wealthy will always have firearms and bodyguards with machine guns. Just where do you think that leads to?

  • RSDrake

    “Or we can finally agree that the problem is obvious: too many people who should not have guns, do.”

    True, but we need to manage who gets guns in the future: 1) trained, 2) certified at the range, 3) Background Check, 4) License, 5) Obtain a firearm, 6) lock it up when not in use, and 7) increase vigilance on potentially unstable persons who have or want to have firearms.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7DKWSXHQIDBW5PUAPZ2HZAYYUY Baron Cormac

      I agree with your seven points. There are problems with all of them, though.
      1. From personal experience, unless the firearms safety training is conducted by law-enforcement personnel, you often get some paranoid, delusional rants about “jack-booted UN troops coming to confiscate your guns”. So, the trainers should be law-enforcement or military certified instructors, not NRA certified yahoos.
      2. Certification at the range is ideal. This way someone without a clue will suddenly realize that the 80 year old, 95 pound grandmother really cannot handle that .357 Magnum she is tying to use.
      3. Background checks ALMOST work. I say almost because nobody who does not have committment to a psychiatric institution by a judge will admit to any treatment for any mental problem. Add to that there are no background checks for gun show sales, or the private sales that often take place in private homes and gun clubs. Currently, the only people who must collect the data for background checks are Federally licensed firearms dealers selling inventory, not their personal possessions.
      4. Licenses are a great idea. The Second Amendment specifies “a well regulated militia” before the remainder of the sentence. This would be the end-result and extension of training, certification and checks. Unfortunately, the NRA and Tea Party claim this is a database that will allow the UN troops it identify gun owners and confiscate their weapons.
      5. Obtaining a firearm is normally the easiest part of this whole equation. However, if we require people to display a firearms license, just as individuals must do to board a plane, or vote (my less than subtle dig at those who talk about this to prevent fraudulent voting, like Ann Coulter has admitted to), then you should be required to present your license to buy a gun, too.
      6. Lock it up. Unfortunately, this was disproven by Adam Lanza. Someone who wants to get a gun will bypass whatever obstacles you place in his or her path.
      7. OOOOH. Now people will get to debate on who is potentially unstable. I may have a different opinion than someone like Michelle Bachmann or Wayne LaPierre.

      • idamag

        Baron, the problem with Lanza is that it was a glass cased gun cabinet. Maybe, they should be required to have a gun safe. Maybe lanza’s mother left the key hanging where it could be easily gotten to.

    • sigrid28

      Please send your list to Vice President Biden’s task force. I would amend only the seventh item, to read “institute mental health parity nationally as a provision of the ACA.” Currently, diagnosis, treatment, therapy, and medications for mental illness and even some developmental disabilities, such as autism, are often not covered by health insurance policies, Medicare, or Medicaid in the same that they would be if they were classified as medical conditions, like cancer, heart disease, or diabetes. Yet, the problem is widespread. Autism affects one out of every one hundred children. Parents of these individuals on the autism spectrum stress that their sons and daughters are only very rarely violent; but if someone’s child needed long-term treatment, the social network required to deliver it SIMPLY IS NOT THERE. Finally, though your recommendation is so sensible and well-intentioned, I must sadly remind you that anyone of us might experience a mental illness or neurological impairment at any time: we are all “potentially unstable persons.”

      • RSDrake

        Sigris28,

        I prepared a 16 page PowerPoint Presentation on the subject and mailed it to Mr. Biden’s office last Friday. They keep his e-mail address a secret so I snail mailed it.

        I also sent it to the Bureau of Alcohol & Firearms (they are a part of the Task Force) and they returned it with the message to “contact my Congressman).

        I also sent it to two of my Virginia Delegates because they are working on legislation to arm teachers in Virginia schools. These people are about as crazy as Wayne LaPierre (NRA CEO).

        There are 98,800 public schools in the U.S. If a guard costs $100,000 per year to fund (Salary, overhead, retirement etc.), Wayne’s proposal would cost $9.8 billion a year to fund. Two guards would cost … well that would be a big number too. Additionally, when you have a well-trained crazy show up at the school with an automatic rifle, the guards may not be able to handle it unless they wore body armor and looked like a SWAT member. This may not be the answer?

        Your take on mental health is outstanding – I am not that well informed. My thrust would be to increase awareness of mental health issues involving gun owners (in the home, at work, at the gun range, …) and when you see something that potentially could be dangerous, you need to take appropriate action.

  • RSDrake

    in response to Dominick: and fully automatic weapons …

    • johninPCFL

      They were banned in 1934. The NRA was more focused on hunter safety back then, and probably didn’t have the political muscle it does now.

      • idamag

        johnin, the NRA is listed among the most powerful lobbyists. They have power. They lobby for gun manufacturers. The more people they can scare, witless, the more guns that can be sold.

        • johninPCFL

          Agreed. In 1934 criminals had been using fully automatic guns for years, and it was legal for anyone to buy them. The major difference then was we didn’t have an enormous organization screaming “guns don’t kill people” at every opportunity. Sanity prevailed, and for the first time some guns were ruled illegal for the common citizen to own.

          You can still own them today, by the way, but you do have paperwork and a criminal background check to pass. Their movement is also tracked (i.e. you can’t sell them unless it’s to another approved buyer), so it’s one place where a straw-man buyer transfer is illegal. Interestingly, all the griping about ‘fast and furious’ fails to note that NONE of the guns being tracked could have been legally siezed, nor could ANY of the transporters been arrested on US soil. It turns out that if you legally buy a gun in AZ, you can legally carry it around with you and give it to anybody you want.

  • paule33

    The NRA is ridiculous. The second amendment is fine. But with today’s technologies, there needs to be some restrictions on weapons of war.. Our fore fathers would have done just that. Armed security at all schools, that’s crazy. Who is going to pay for that? We have 2 wars running now for 12 years, that the Republicans got us into and created a large deficit but they refuse to increase taxes to pay for it. And remember, it’s always the element of surprise. I don’t care how much security you have. You can always take them out first. What kind of message are we sending out to our kids. For NRA members who are sane I applaud you. The rest of you without common sense in this situation are ASSHOLES!!!!

    • sigrid28

      You ask, who is going to pay for armed security at all schools? La Pierre offers this “security” free of charge, by proposing that the NRA train and arm the George Zimmermans of the world. He would put these VOLUNTEER gun enthusiasts and off-duty or retired militarists, right there in high schools, for example, mixing it up with the Trevon Martins of the world. On behalf of the NRA, its backers (gun and ammo manufacturers and retailers), and its four million members, LaPierre offers this gift to the nation: a George Zimmerman in every school. But wise men are not carrying it.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7DKWSXHQIDBW5PUAPZ2HZAYYUY Baron Cormac

        That is also because LaPierre led the fight against the GHW Bush and Clinton White Houses when part of their proposals to increase law-enforcement personnel would go against his personal freedoms.

    • koifan

      When the second amendment was written, the state of art of weapons was muskets.
      Give then all the muskets they want and take away any of those military style weapons away…or weld them shut so they cannot kill again.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

        Kofian, you are wrong. When the 2nd amendment was written, they intended for private citizens to buy cannon, and large caliber, multi shot, hand held devices of mass destruction. The point is they did not want a standing army, but instead wanted a citizen army. Anything you restrict from us, you must also by law restrict from the military. And there is no basis for ever being able to change that. The military can never be trusted as much as the average citizen. To arm the military above the citizens, guarantees the end of freedom.

        • catnip2430

          Umm… I believe the military is already armed above us citizens, for I don’t know of anyone with an fully armed F-16 at the local airfield or a missle cruiser sitting at the dock in the local marina or an ICBM buried in their back yard, and how many have an M1A1 tank in the driveway?

          • idamag

            When they did not have a standing army, citizens were armed for their own protection against Indians and riffraff. We did not have a bunch of paranoids armed against their peaceful fellow citizens and the government.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

            We are not supposed to have a standing army now, don’t need one, and you do remember Rodney King and Waco right? The government is not so peaceful.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vernon-Sukumu/100000963359102 Vernon Sukumu

            Their is no big GOV-MENT in Somalia, should make you feel worm and fuzzy all over.

          • idamag

            Always wrong. We are the government. Name any entity, even religion that does not get a few bad apples. Now, for a few facts about Ruby Ridge, Waco and Rodney King: 1. Government officials were closing in on the people at Ruby Ridge for illegal activity. The people in the house started shooting (man and wife) The ATF returned fire and the woman was killed. 2. Waco, Texas and the David Koresh compound. A couple of children escaped from that compound and a ten-year-old girl went to her father who was not a member. She told her father and authorities that David Koresh was sleeping with ten-year-old girls. This is child sexual abuse and illegal in every state. The ATF went in to try and get the children out. They tried to get in the compound and the shooting started. It is not unusual for a meglamaniac to commit suicide and take others with him. Read about Hitler and Jim Jones. David Koresh destroyed that compound to do just that – commit suicide and take others with him. 3. Rodney King, yes those policemen were wrong and should not have been policemen. Another more horrible thing that happened because of bad policemen, was the police who were called and told a naked, bleeding boy was running down the street screaming. They went to the scene and found the boy and a man came up to them and told them the boy was his homosexual lover and it was a lover’s quarrel. The boy was from Asia and could not speak English. The police turned the boy over to Jeffery Dahmer to be tortured and killed. You should fight against this type of policeman. There are good police who put their lives on the line to protect yours.

            If you want to generalize: Jeffery Dahmer was blond. blue-eyed and caucasion. Does that make all blond, blue-eyed caucasions dangerous sociopaths?

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

            Citizens would employ guerrilla warfare, so don’t need tanks, planes, or missiles. But they do need high quality assault weapons and must be ensured access. It is the military that can never be trusted. After all, who was it who lied to us about Iraq having WMD? Who got us into Vietnam? Who is getting a third of our national budget right now? Who is forcing us to spend more than any other country on weapons?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Myers/100001512942781 Jim Myers

            If memory serves me right, I believe it was George the Second and his trusty sidekicks Dick and Donald who cooked up the WMD and sucked us into two ILLEGAL AND UNFUNDED wars.

            In fact, all military wars mentioned by you were started by CIVILIAN POLITICIANS.

            I do, however, agree that the Military – Industrial Complex sucks WAY too much money and other resources out of our economy

          • Dmullins84

            Two names comes to mind who got us in Iraq, G.W. Bush & Dick Cheney, two more people who needed an attitude adjustment.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

            Bush is the one that lied about WMDs not the military . The Military did not get us into VietNam again it was a president, Nixon I believe was the President that did that. Republicans are the ones that keep wanting the defense budget to go higher even after the Military tells them they don’t need a higher budget and that they a well armed enough to defend this Country Republicans still want more money for the Military so the weapon makers can keep making big bucks. That is why the NRA keeps saying the government is coming after your weapon so people like you Always Right will keep buying the gun manufacturers products and keep the money rolling in for them. Organizations like the NRA are the enemies of the country especially since they keep telling untruths about the government coming after anyone’s one guns. So you need to change your name you are not always right neither is the NRA. Oh by the way, the military is very well versed in guerrilla warfare but more so than the ordinary citizen and so guerrilla warfare won’t work .

          • Lisztman

            Actually it was Lyndon Johnson (D) who got us into Vietnam. I’m not defending his decision (and though I was too young to have voted for him at the time, I’ve voted for every Democratic PRESIDENTIAL candidate since McGovern…
            I did not serve in Vietnam. But I still have my Selective Service Registration card in my wallet.

          • idamag

            Always, stay alert. Watch for black helicopters and power poles with listening devices and cameras.

        • foolsdance

          So, you fall on the side of paranoid ‘jackbooted thug’ nut cases? The military is now, and has always been, armed far beyond what citizens can legally acquire.
          No law abiding citizen needs high volume round, auto or semi auto guns.

        • Dmullins84

          And you call yourself allways right. Another Republican dummy would be a better handle.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

      When you travel by train or ship they have to provide armed security to protect you, so why should a school be any different? Many schools used to provide armed security when I was a kid. Many of the teachers were afraid of being mugged, so carried a concealed weapon. Arming teachers does not cost anything really. And teachers can be trusted with weapons far more than police.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Myers/100001512942781 Jim Myers

        What fantasy world are you living in?

        • idamag

          Jim, I think he made up one. He has probably always been a little paranoid.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

        Where did you go to school to have armed guards there? They don’t provide security on buses, cross the road, school buses or public transport buses and I have never heard of armed guards on trains, never been on a ship but I don’t remember reading anywhere that there are armed guards on ships. If ships have armed guards how come so many of them have been hi jacked by Somalia pirates? Teachers do not have killer instincts,they have caring instincts so why do you think a teacher could shot another human no matter what was happening. If teachers in your part of the Country are carrying guns for fear of getting mugged how do they get teachers to come there and teach, you must live in one of the Northern cities that have laid off most of their police officers and allowed the gangs to run the city.

      • Lisztman

        No matter whom you can trust, guns and kids don’t mix. My wife (the HS teacher) tells me that there is nowhere in a classroom where you can put a weapon and be certain that it is secure from students.
        The issue, more than anything, is training. We train teachers to teach. We do not train them to be law-enforcement officials.

    • leedaily

      If you can afford to go to a sporting event that has armend guards, a casino that have armed guards. Which you pay for in your ticket. You can afford to have armed guards in schools. This must be augmented by secured entrances and other security mesures. Not having armend guards at schools is crazy.
      Maybe we should take out the fire extinguishers too.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vernon-Sukumu/100000963359102 Vernon Sukumu

        They day that saint Reagan got shot his secret service most have left there weapons, oh I don’t know at the office maybe.

        • idamag

          Vernon, good point.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

        It is clear you don’t have children in school. No one of you that want armed guards in the schools have given one thought about how the children would be affected mentally being surround by people with guns all the time. They would be unable to concrete on their school work, they wouldn’t be listening to the teacher instead they would be listening for gunshots and at night they would have nightmares about themselves, their siblings and their friends being killed because someone with a gun started shooting and we would have schools full of students suffering from panroida

        • leedaily

          If a child is psycologically scared by someone armed in their school protecting them then that kid needs psycological help due to some screwed up parent. You really made a stretch with that comment. WTF planet are you from?
          I have grandchildren in school BTW and would want someone armed in their school.

        • idamag

          Hill, it is bad enough how they have been affected by the shooting. In a small community in Utah, a six-year-old was found with a loaded pistol. When they took it away from him and asked him about it, he told them it was in case a shooter came to his school.

        • jointerjohn

          You missed the reason the NRA loves this crazy idea of arming school guards and teachers. Now, we know they are nothing but crack-whores for the billion dollar gun industry, so what better way to raise future sales than to have all children grow up with the image that successful adulthood is marked by having a gun in your pocket? The ones at the top are practicing greed and using fear and misinformation to lure other sad sacks like “CYNICALZ” and “Always Right” into helping them get rich. Think about it, how did the NRA turn so many sane politicians into sniveling cowards afraid to speak out for sanity? MONEY, great steaming gobs of campaign cash. This is one more issue that demonstrates the poisonous effect of unlimited campaign cash.

  • Lisztman

    Per my morning paper, Mr. LaPierre of the NRA doubled down on TV yesterday (Sunday), telling all the viewers (again) that the problem is not guns but the criminals who use them.

    In a perfect world, to my mind, only criminals would have automatic or semi-auto weapons. Thus enabling law enforcement to instantly identify criminals upon the appearance of such a gun.

    Unfortunately, too many “criminals” were not criminals prior to the one horrific act that moved them to that list. A significant percentage end their rampage before law enforcement does — and they then answer to only one higher Authority, should there be Such.

    So in the meantime, the personal stockpiles of incredibly lethal weapons (as opposed to simply lethal pistols or hunting rifles) continue to grow, leaving us to wonder which individual next trips over the line into loonydom and becomes a criminal-in-waiting. The time has come, now, to insist upon a ban of such weapons. Let the Supreme Court explain to us, if necessary, how the wording of the Second Amendment accords to us the right to own any weapon we damn well please.

    • CYNICALZ

      The second amendment defends the right of the first amendment.

      • thebunt

        the combination of the 2 probably are the reason the USA is such a violent society.

        WAKE UP AMERICA

        • CYNICALZ

          thebunt; Obama has already taken your free “politically correct speech” away and now he wants your guns. Does North Korea have any appeal to you?

          • Dmullins84

            Cynicalz, you are blowing wind. President Obama has taken nothing away from you, I often wonder why all you Republican people out there blame the President for every dam thing that comes along. And by the way I was in the Korean war been there and done that. You sound like another Obama hater. Be nice to the Man you may need his help sometime.

          • idamag

            Dmullin. my brother saw combat in Korea and he had some trouble afterward. All combat people are affected whether it is physical or not.

          • CYNICALZ

            Dmullins84; Not surprised you commandeered a weapon for protection, have the compulsion to dictate to those of us with mental and mechanical skills the very fire arms that would protect ourselves. I am equally surprised you are under the illusion as not to see Obama Socialism eroding the very freedom you fought for. By the way, I am an Independent.

          • idamag

            Cyn, I hate to respond to you as you are a stupid ass, but there is no law concerning political correctness. It is only a matter of decency toward one another.

          • CYNICALZ

            idamag; The battle cry from the habitat of intellectualism gone wrong. Amended your calloused outburst never to talk to me again? A metamorphosis into reality? There is a law against political correctness, be decent and ask one of your minority friends.

          • idamag

            cyn dip, cite the law page and chapter, please.

          • CYNICALZ

            idamag; Busy standing in line to return Christmas presents. Am sure you have not lifted a finger to inform yourself. Please call Obama with your research questions.

          • idamag

            President Obama is not the one making up stupid lies, you are.

          • CYNICALZ

            idamag; You believe Obama lies, why don’t you hook up with my comment and get some more. Come on, make your vote count.

    • idamag

      Lis, only a coward would need a man-killing gun or a multiple round clip. Cowards with guns are dangerous.

      • templep

        idamag: I truly hope I’m no coward. I have a Glock 40-cal. semi-automatic handgun with 15-round magazines. I also have a Concealed-Carry permit.
        Why so many rounds? My excellent training taught me that if I’m up against 2 to 4 home invaders, I might need that many rounds to get the situation under control and save the lives of my family and me.

        Nobody hopes more than I that I will never have to draw my handgun. But I know just how vulnerable my family and I are without it. So I keep up my training at the firing range at the same time I keep up my hopes.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph-Glackin/100000892011713 Joseph Glackin

          Do you “carry” 24/7? When these hypothetical “home invaders” crash your house, where is your Glock?
          You realize I hope that there is a far greater chance one of your family will die from that Glock than any mythic “intruder.”

          • idamag

            Like all those children who accidentally get shot or shoot someone in a house with a loaded gun.

        • rothgar

          It certainly sounds like you are in the first group listed above.
          While I would never call an armed person a coward, I’ve personally faced Bike Gang members bare handed.

          I still struggle with the idea that a Home Invasion is a Capital Crime. Now if you are sure that you and your family ARE going to be raped and/or killed you might have an argument but that is a stretch. Having sat in Court (as a prosecution witness) I have seen a parade of petty thieves most of whom are supporting a drug habit not blood thirsty zombies.

          Perhaps you should invest in steel core doors, steel door frames, and a dual locked dead bolt for your entries. For less than the cost of that Glock I suspect you’d be a lot safer.

        • Sand_Cat

          The guys in the military are always saying that they don’t want war, that they of all people understand what a bad idea it is. But somehow, every time some draft-evading politician calls for war over a mild-to-non-existent threat, somehow his stock goes up, at least with the “leaders” who profess to hate war so.

          Sorry, but I find it hard not to see your heavy armament and concealed-carry permit vs your “hope” you’ll never have to draw the gun in much the same way.

          Do you need a concealed carry permit inside your home? I thought your concern was home invasion.

          • idamag

            His concern is his fear of everyone out there and those who might get in there.

        • http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

          templep you are correct. When you are confronted with some one shooting at you, you don’t always get them with the first shot. Therefore you need several rounds. If there is more than one criminal facing you, you will certainly need so many rounds. Don’t believe the left. They want you unarmed and defenseless Piriod. I will not be unarmed. As long as you are alive there is always hope!

          • idamag

            Richard, you probably don’t know how peaceful it is to not be afraid all the time. Have you ever thought of seeking professional help?

        • old_blu

          You do know the best home defense would be a 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buck? Right?

          Then you don’t have to worry about missing or shooting some pain in the ass innocent bystander. *rolls eyes*

        • idamag

          Keep your doors locked and keep on the alert. Maybe, you and your family members should take turns keeping a twenty-four hour watch for your safety.

      • http://mohammeddressup.com/ I Zheet M’Drawz

        I have a glock blah blah blah that shoots 100 round a second & I can shoot the fleas off a dawgs back at 100 yards….love it or leave it…my country right or wrong…cold dead hands…blah blah blah.

        Don’t you get a kick out of these people? The only reward for exchanging (or trying to) ideas with these gun toutin’ yee-haw types is to post something intelligent & sit back. Can you see the look of frustration on their hairy unshaved faces as they look at a word in your post they’ve never seen because it doesn’t get used on bumper stickers?

        They are their own worst enemy. Give them some rope & if they can figure out which end is which they’ll hang themselves.

        So TO ALL YOU GUN NUTS:

        We’re coming for them, that’s right all of them, especially YOURS.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

      What is Mr. LaPierre going to say about the four firemen that were shot today when they responded to an emergency call? The NRA has turned the United States into a war zone, with indiscriminate killings taking place in every city and town in the country every single day. Some may be carried out by people with mental illnesses, but the only constant is that the worst massacres are made possible by the availability of semi-automatic weapons and high capacity magazines.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/ZGYX7ZNZLPF3YIFWAWS3WKFE5M RonaldS

        I would also add the gun show loophole.

      • http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

        Leftist will turn America into a third world country just like every middle eastern country. Every one of them should move there if they love it so much.

        • KLSchwink

          I have read your comment over and over, as well as the one to which you allegedly responded. I cannot in any way connect your rant to the thoughtful opinion above it. As an American who believes the second amendment was never intended to guarantee unlimited firepower to us all, I deeply resent your suggestion that those who do not agree with you do not belong in OUR country. The first amendment is more precious to me than the second, and your apparent wish to expatriate all whose views do not align with your won is offensive to the highest degree.

        • CYNICALZ

          Agree. Then, what would they complain about. They are chronic losers!

        • http://www.facebook.com/max.overton.12 Max Overton

          Perhaps Richard is right. Let every peace-loving American move overseas, with only the gun-toting violent-minded people left behind. When they’ve killed each other off in an orgy of 2nd Amendment worship, the reasonable Americans can move back in and reclaim what is really a beautiful country racked by paranoia.

          • idamag

            Max, wracked by paranoia is right.

        • Dmullins84

          No Richard it’s people like you whats wrong with this country, spurting your anger at the people and country who allowed your ass to be born in. See a doctor fast before you hurt yourself or someone else.

      • old_blu

        I bet he says we are going to have to arm volunteer firemen, and who knows how many others, before we know it with his ideologies soon everyone will be armed, really not the America I love.

  • William Deutschlander

    It would appear that LaPierre is not mentaly stable and therefore should not have access to firearms or ammunition!
    For those mentaly stable enough to keep firearms and ammunition, it should be required that the firearms be kept secured and locked and the ammunition be kept seperately secured and locked.
    It would appear that if the firearms, used at Newtown, had been secured and locked by the owner, the Mother, this trajedy would not have unfolded.
    Firearms and ammunition are dangerous and should be treated with great respect at all times, ownership should require a degree of education and training.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

      If someone wants to commit a crime like this, locking up firearms is not going to stop them. Safes can be cut open, but there are far more dangerous things than firearms, easily obtained by anyone. Firearms should be treated with respect, but it is the responsibility of everyone to have them, and anyone too dangerous should not be allowed to walk freely on the streets or drive a car.

  • templep

    He got it backwards. Too many people who SHOULD have guns, don’t. Let me explain:

    On a practical note, you’ll realize that the massacres occur in locations of complete vulnerability: schools, movie houses, places of worship. They’re vulnerable because they have no established or effective response system in place. You’ll also recall that the elementary school in CT had a “lock-down” procedure that they drilled on several times a year. Sadly, in was insufficient as a deterrent to stop this mentally-unbalanced young man.

    Israel, in the early ‘70’s faced a similar dilemma: terrorists attacked Israeli schools at will and unhindered. The Israeli leadership pulled their best minds together, analyzed the situation, formulated several responses, and finally chose one that worked. From every school, they chose three or four volunteers, gave them extensive training in tactical handgun defense, and armed them. They stopped the next few terrorist attacks in their tracks, and there have since been NO terrorist attacks on Israeli schools. So, here’s a proven response method, distasteful or abhorrent though it may seem to anti-gun people or “peace-at-any-cost” folk.

    Finally, there are no gun laws, background checks, licensing restrictions, preventive practices or good intentions that will deter the determined lunatic from getting the guns and attempting the massacre. The remaining question: are our leaders willing to put in place the only proven method for stopping these massacres in the future?

    • idamag

      temp, there is no proven method to prevent masacres, but they can be cut down drastically. The NRA has calculatingly created fear to sell more guns. Paranoids and cowards should not have guns, but they do. I don’t want my country to become a war zone.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

        It already is a war zone and it will get worse as people lose more control over their feelings and reach for a gun to settle any argument they have with someone else. The most sane person can lose control when angry or upset and reach for a gun to settle the argument or kill the person that they are upset with even if it is a spouse or a child or a complete stranger. Humans act more on impulse than they do thinking before they do things.

        • idamag

          Hill, someone, above, said (at least I think he said) that if everyone carried a gun it would deter some one from using theirs to kill people. People, like Lanza, did not care whether he died or not. It would not deter nuts. In Florida, I visualized a mother and her child walking by a man with a gun. The child is carrying a balloon. It rubs against something sharp and pops. The man with a gun shoots the child. The police come. The man says, “I felt threatened.” The police say, “Okay, then.”

  • ChristoD

    I do NOT accept the premise that too many people that have guns should not BUT I do accept the premise that those that are identified as hostile to our way of life or are criminals need to be sought out, disarmed and incarcerated, if deemed necessary. The overwhelming number of gun owners are hunters and law abiding citizens who should be left to their use of guns as they see fit and within the laws of their state/country. Those that are against this basic, logical position should be identified and labeled for what they are…..extremists and there is NO place for extremists of any kind. Perhaps we should start a counter movement to the NRA. This movement would use the money obtained from its’ members to counter lobbying by the NRA at the fed and state levels by hiring, in kind, reasonable lobbyists to implement our wishes.

  • TZToronto

    I say designate the NRA a terrorist organization, prohibit donations and membership, and toss their leadership into prison.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/C22AJV5GXSF4QE3YJY5IGBTULU TSB

    What was the primary reason to abolish the six shooter from the hip in the wild, wild west? Wasn’t that to prevent unneeded shootings and deaths on the streets and bars? Did it work?

  • Simpleisbetter2

    We should make all guns illegal. That way, the crazy, destitute mad at the world people can switch to IED’s, booby traps, poisoning others, (see tylenol, cyanide, etc.), kitchen knives, axes, running people down with cars… Oh HECK!! I forgot… people have been doing all of that for years!!

    In case you’re interested, it’s illegal to do all of the above, but people still do it in massive numbers. Why is it all of that makes the news on the second page now but a simple bar shooting makes headlines.

    Maybe the NRA is correct, getting rid of guns is not the answer.

    • idamag

      I have never heard of anyone looking to purchase a car, saying, “I need one that will take out as many people as possible.” If I purchase a new kitchen knife, my thought is not how many people can I kill with it. When I purchase a car, I must register it, license it and insure it. Then, to get a license to drive the car, I must prove I know the law and how to drive.

      I am sure if we ban assault rifles, there will still be gun killing, but at least we can cut the numbers down.

  • Simpleisbetter2

    Ever see the movie, “Red Dawn”? They have a new version of that movie out. If you have read the news recently, North Korea says their missile tests are not a threat to North America. My guess is you believe them. I personally think a whole bunch of folks with assault rifles is exactly what we need. I think anyone trying to attack us directly thinks long and hard about attacking a country where there are enough guns to arm the entire populace, and a large percentage capable of using them. Perhaps spending some money to identify those individuals who need mental help, who are struggling mentally and who cannot cope well with reality would be a place where our money is better spent on the government level. Perhaps we should all get busy helping the smaller group of people who need help, rather than regulating the masses into a life of mindless free loaders.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

    There probably are people who should not have guns, but unfortunately they often join the police, military, and criminal gangs that ensure they will have guns. So we are not going to be able to take away their guns. So the best we can do is arm ourselves in order to balance it out a little.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

      Do you work for the NRA? Everything you have posted seem to come right out of their book? People like you are the ones that don’t need a gun or bullets. Police and military have to have mental elevations before be allowed to join either the military or the Police Force. There are a few that do have break downs and goes over the hill with their guns but there are a lot fewer of them that do than there are gun permit people that go bonkers.

    • idamag

      No, Always, they are the paranoids who are scared in their own streets and their own homes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alvey.pelletier Alvey Pelletier

    Mr. LaPierre’s solution is armed guards in every school and some people say arm the teachers.
    If a mad man is intent on storming a school and killing every moving human, including himself, chances are pretty damned good he’s going to take out the guard and the teachers first. Columbine had an armed guard. What happened there?
    It will be a long time before our “do nothing congress” comes up with anything positive regarding gun control. What do we do in the mean time to keep our children safe in our schools? If we can’t stop the loonies and guns continue to be as readily available as cigarettes all that’s left are are the schools.
    Communities have to look at how easy it is for anyone to gain access to the building. Newtown had a new security system but the sicko either shot out the glass in the entrance door or a near by window and walked right in. I sure don’t want our school kids to think their school is a penitentiary, but I would rather that, then see this horrible act play out again.
    A lock down when all students are in, security camera’s at every entrance, and around the perimeters, no one is allowed entrance without someone in authority viewing a monitor to verify identity, if danger is suspected a very loud public noise blast sounded indicating danger at the school.
    The NRA’s next idea will probably be to arm all the students—that’s their mentality!

  • Pamby50

    I actually watched Mr. LaPierre on Meet the Press yesterday. When he was through, I was so upset with him. He kept ranting how criminals keep buying guns & that they should be in jail. That every school should have a cop in it. When asked how we would pay for it, he said congress could authorize it. I just laughed at that. We have been laying off police & firefighters in budget cuts. Would congress authorize the money to pay for them? No. Would the NRA pay for them? No. So all in all Mr. LaPierre offered nothing. Why did we give this man the time of day?

  • Michelle Rose

    Beautifully-constructed and eloquently-phrased essay, Mr. Pitts. The one tragic aspect I see is that it is altogether true. We cannot guard against these sociopaths with more firepower. We can only hope to reduce the carnage by limiting the access to firearms.

    There is no other solution.

    I mourn this as I mourn the loss of the Sandy Hook school-children. Our collective innocence died with those children. Our mutual belief that we could be heroes and save the day has been destroyed. We could not do that under any circumstance. All we can do is remove the access, attempt to treat the insane ones before they emerge to wreak havoc, and pray.

    It’s frustrating, isn’t it? We WANT to believe in our own sense of independence and heroic ability. Both are illusions. Both are deadly to believe in. Belief in either will only worsen a similar situation, leading to more carnage and an even higher body count.

    We are not heroes. We are no more than ordinary people. It’s true that some of us can sometimes rise to the status of a “hero”, but the number who do so is so small as to be almost insignificant. No, we are as helpless as those children who died.

    Any other belief will cost more lives.

  • templep

    Idamag: Yes, there IS a proven method, the Israelis have implemented it, and as a consequence for years there have been NO attacks on schools there.

    Ignatius Piazza, the founder and president of Front Sight Firearms Training Institute, has offer to train the staff of any public school–FREE. That’s no small gift: their four-day handgun tactical defense course normally costs $2,000.00 per participant.

    And it’s great training–my wife and I took the course 2 years ago, bought a 40-cal. Glock, and keep up our skills by going to the firing range once a month. I no longer feel quite so vulnerable in my own house.

    Interesting sidenote: In our class of 40, there were 12 current police officers from several states, and a few military people. They were there at their own expense because FSFTI training is far better than the training they got back home.

  • RSDrake

    Interesting. There is one thing for certain, no country in its right mind would ever conduct a land invasion of the U.S.

  • howa4x

    The NRA is right about one thing and wrong about another. Our mental health system has been broken for years, and defunded by the same people(republicans) that support the NRA. Republicans have systematicly cut funding for all social programs including mental health. So to sit there with a straight face and say the system is broken is laughable, since they broke it. The NRA has been the obsticle to the sharing of information on who actually has a gun in this country, and have set up a system free of checks by law enforcement. Gun shows do not do background checks and will sell to anyone who has the money, as will the internet. Congress exempted them at the request of the NRA. So now with the horse out of the barn, they blame everyone but themselves. The NRA is still resistive to any background checks at shows, even after the Conn shooting. I think they would be the happiest if our towns looked like a war zone complete with colateral damage, and the dead strewn about and combatants of one clan or another fighting from house to house. We all watch each night in horror at what goes on in Syria, yet our urban areas, just out of our sight goes through this violence every night, with bystanders having their lives cut short. I’m supprised the NRA isn’t doing gun commercials there.
    Where they are completely wrong is about protecting schools with armed guards. Both Columbine, and V tech had armed guards at the time of the mass shootings and they couldn’t stop it. In both the Sandy Hill, and Aruroa massacres the shooters were wearing body armor, so if an armed teacher even hit them they would not go down, and would only identify for the shooter were they were hiding. If you arm the teachers then future killer will be well protected when they walk in the door. The issue is and only is the easy access to guns in this country, by hate groups, militias, criminals, mental patients, urban teens and kids everywhere.

    • idamag

      how, the NRA uses people with mental problems. The people they can scare are the ones they can sell guns to.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Myers/100001512942781 Jim Myers

    If you have NEVER encountered Road Rage.

    If you have NEVER encountered a heated argument between friends, family members, co-workers or even complete strangers.

    THEN I CAN UNDERSTAND THE OUTRAGE OVER THE CONCEPT OF GUN CONTROL.

    However, if you have EVER seen any of these take place, you should have the mental capacity to understand that nearly EVERYONE is capable of doing things that under normal conditions would SEEM irrational.

    Why is there so much debate over limiting semi-automatic and fully automatic rifles, 30 round, (or more), magazines, etc.

    SURELY THE LIVES OF INNOCENT CHILDREN MUST HAVE SOME VALUE IN OUR SOCIETY!!!!!!

  • foolsdance

    Since when??? What country (psycho ward) do you live in??? I have never seen a single armed security person on any train or boat I have ever been on.

    • idamag

      fools, travel has been one of my passions. I can’t remember any armed guards on trains, planes or ships.

      • foolsdance

        Thank you. I have since been informed by others on this site that lana is a certifiable nutcase, so we shall pay her no mind going forward.

  • thebunt

    Hello America. Anyone awake? Ever think of asking the advice of other countries and discover why they don’t have the massive gun problem that America has? They must be doing something right and you are doing it wrong. I sometimes wonder if another country discovered a cure for cancer if the USA would benefit, or even know about it.

    • idamag

      theblunt. absolutely, The US has ten times the gun deaths as any other civilized country. We seem to have a nation of scared paranoids. Whatever happened to the land of the free and the home of the brave?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joseph-Glackin/100000892011713 Joseph Glackin

    I am awaiting the confiscation of LaPierre’s guns, since he has posited that we may “call him crazy” and that crazy people should not have guns.

  • templep

    Joseph: I either carry (in lock-release holster), or it’s in the same room with me. If grandchildren are here, I carry. My family and I are a lot more secure with our Glock and good training than we were before we woke up to our complete vulnerability. Nobody from my family is going to die from the Glock, but god help any intruder, mythic or otherwise.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

      Are you sure that your Glock won’t kill an innocent person? I hope you are right but the truth of the matter is most people are killed by firearms in the homes than crooks are no matter how safe you are with the gun. Look up the numbers and see how many each year are killed by guns in their homes compared to the number killed by break ins or robbers.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KWMCTLJJ2FHD3NPDJG6TAD467I Jesse Fell

      Where do you live — Baghdad?

    • idamag

      tem, Like I said, it is so sad that you live in such a state. Move to a more peaceful state where you will feel safe.

  • Pi_Boson

    I believe the ROI of the NeoRadical Aggregates has expired in this country.

  • Sand_Cat

    No it doesn’t. By and large, the gun nuts of this country – when they vote at all – vote for politicians who seek to restrict free speech and virtually all other freedoms guaranteed in the Bill of Rights in the name of “security” and “patriotism.”

    Your arguments certainly are cynical; I congratulate you on your choice of names.

  • Sand_Cat

    Here we go…

    Thanks for proving my point.

  • Sand_Cat

    The main people we can’t rust with firearms are those who find it necessary to assemble an arsenal, who believe the UN (or Obama) is coming for them, who harbor other paranoid fantasies about Obama, those who think arming teachers and others is the answer to gun violence; in other words, a very substantial proportion of “responsible, law-abiding gun owners.”

  • http://mohammeddressup.com/ I Zheet M’Drawz

    Seems to me a paranoid delusional shouldn’t have access to to a knife & fork never mind firearms. This guy Mr. LaPierre is definately someone that has left his mind behind when he steps to the podium.

    Didn’t he start the press confernce the other day with a statement to the affect of “…start of a long discussion so we won’t be taking any questions.”

    Did he really say that? (you saw it, he did).

    How about this Mr. LaPierre, we take the guns away from everyone & then anyone caught with a firearm of any kind automatic ten years no parole.

    Sure the bad guys will have guns but as we catch them the bad guys & the guns are taken off the streets. Eventually we’ll have them all.

    THEN we’re coming for your 1st Amendment Rights but only the second class Southern states that are such a drain on the nation & are responsible for the fiscal cliff problem. Then off to the gulag with you for re-education.

    • idamag

      I zheet, Most of the time the criminals with guns are shooting each other.

  • http://www.facebook.com/steven.bugden Steven Bugden

    I’m not saying it’s right, wrong or otherwise. I’m mentioning the devil’s advocate’s position here. The President and his family, as well as SOME of the wealthy and the powerful individuals in this world are protected by men armed with automatic and semi-automatic weapons. Shouldn’t you or I or our family members be equally as valuable and/or worthy of the same type of protection? I am currently struggling with these issues in light of the recent events in Newtown and other recent and not-so-recent atrocities. I thoroughly agree that as many mentally unstable/potentially violent persons and violent criminals should not have access to weapons legally. I also believe that anyone who buys or sells a gun illegally, with criminal intent, should receive astronomical prison sentences so they can’t do it a second time, and be charged with conspiracy if such a weapon is used in a crime! Anyone with 2 functional brain cells to rub together should also be able to assume there is a link between violent media and entertainment and violence IN MANY INSTANCES. THERE ARE NO SIMPLE OR 100% FIXES FOR THIS PROBLEM, BUT EVERYONE SHOULD LISTEN TO AND UNDERSTAND EVERYONE ELSE’S POINT OF VIEW ON THIS, EVEN IF YOU DON’T AGREE WITH IT. As far as armed guards in schools, I’d rather not, but we need to decide what is more important to us. Is military spending in other countries protecting the corporate interests and “free market” and use of armed guards to protect our worthless paper money, or using these resources to protect the lives of our children? Perhaps these resources could be used and other technology could be used and/or developed for protecting our kids, but that won’t help them today!! As stated previously, I struggle with some of these issues, and want to see our children safe, at any cost.

  • http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

    The leftist scream NO GUNS. Sane people Say NO CRIMINALS WITH GUNS. The biggist difference, is that criminals will ignore a new gun ban law just like al the other useless gun ban laws. The socialist left wil never be satisfied until all Amer5ican citizens are disarmed and at the mercy of the criminals and the dictator government. More guns in the hands of the good guys, less socialist government.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JMT6C3LHLJDD4RX4NB4KY5ICAE gargray

    If the criminals didn’t have guns they could not pull the trigger, so what is the problem to many guns available to the public. Guns are more important than lives – that is what you are saying. Gun lovers don’t care how many people are killed every year, all the concerns are about keeping their semiautomatic weapons and arming more unstable people, think! armed guards in every mall, school, theaters, we will need a swat team to reach a fire before the fire fighters arrive. Think of the cost to the taxpayers? What kind of society have we become? I will say it again if guns keep you safe we should be the safest nation in the world, Right?

  • templep

    Jesse–No, I live in Raleigh, NC. Sadly, there is no “safe” place in the U.S. Ironically, my home is “safe” only because I have the means to prevent it from becoming a massacre scene. I.e., a Glock 40-cal semi-automatic handgun with two 15-round magazines.

    • idamag

      tem, maybe you should move away from a place where your home is only safe if you are armed. How sad. That is worse than some of the mideastern countries. My home is safe and I don’t have a man-killing arsenal.

  • templep

    old_blu: No, I don’t know that, nor have I been trained to use a shotgun. I might get one some day, but not until I’ve had training. Ignorant though I am, my guess is that innocent bystanders have a greater chance of being hit with buckshot than being hit by a round from a Glock well-aimed at the assailant.

  • http://www.facebook.com/johnny.thomas.52035 Johnny Thomas

    While much of the nation is living fear that they will loose their guns and saying anything they want true or not to form a blame notion into the president he has not said he was wanted to take them but indicated stronger terms of controlling who has them .While all this is going on the real truth is that we at least and do have a better chance at surviving these attack’s if we are armed our self and the average is that just the idea of people having their own guns have detoured attack;s in place’s like restaurants .Some people will sell guns to anyone for a profit and when they do hold their end they tell the customer that the federal law stop’s them from selling them a gun this only put’s pressure on the president and law makers to want take our right away .It is hard to take a written right away but allowing them to get a foot in the door sure make’s it a step closer .Bottom line is the constitution clearly states that we have the right to bear arms for both protection of an unfair government and survival on a personal basis .Omitting the mental and felons that would go on a rampage .I want mine .

  • jstsyn

    Public outcry. What better way in taking steps to take guns?

  • templep

    idamag: Where is such a state? Not in the U.S., certainly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.ross.7505468 Michael Ross

    The reality is that Lieberman, Huckabee, McDonnell, etc. aren’t beholden to the second amendment, but rather are beholden to the gun manufacturers. They and the NRA are out to do one thing and one thing only: Maximize profits for the manufacturers, and that means ensuring that dangerous and unstable people can continue to buy guns.

    All that rubbish about video games and prayer is nothing more than a smokescreen — it’s the exact same load of crap they pulled with Maralyn Manson after Columbine. And McDonnell? If it isn’t obvious, he’s only pushing that idea because it would sell more guns.

    So since their only loyalty is to the manufacturers, the only way we can fight them is to target the manufacturers. List all the arms companies that have supported the Liebermans, the Huckabees and the McDonnells in America, boycott their products, and boycott any stores that carry their products.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HQ2BSHQWFZGGL46WFAYHNHNSEU Nate

    When are we going to stand up to the lies of the NRA? You keep repeating a lie long enough people will start to believe it. Remember trickle down economics?

  • Kansan

    Did David Koresh have religion in the schools he attended? How about Jim Jones? How about Israel Keyes?

scroll to top