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Saturday, October 22, 2016

On Tuesday, nationally known pastor Rick Warren defended his stand against gay marriage by telling CNN’s Piers Morgan that being gay may be natural, but that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

“I have all kinds of natural feelings in my life and it doesn’t necessarily mean I should act on every feeling,” Warren said. “Sometimes I get angry and feel like punching a guy in the nose. That doesn’t mean I act on it. Sometimes I, as you’ve pointed out, sometimes I feel attracted to a woman who isn’t my wife. I don’t act on it. Just because I have a feeling doesn’t make it right. Not everything natural is right. Arsenic is natural.”

Warren seems to be arguing that government should legislate morality. If that’s true, why are adulterers allowed to remarry?

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Copyright 2012 The National Memo
  • Mimi2kool

    This is just the sort of statement that makes Christians as a group appear ignorant and intolerant. I am not surprised at the statement Rick Warren made, only disappointed that he would be hostile to a group of people that are also children of God.

    • idamag

      Mimi, I am getting the idea that organized religion is hateful and intolerant. It might be because i was once a Southern Baptist.

  • Michael Kollmorgen

    Sad fact is, is that IF Christianity was so against people like this, who are supposed to tainting your christian image, how come there isn’t a general outcry from Christianity as a whole?

    I’ll tell you why there isn’t – these people are being used as fallguys by Christianity so the rest of you can reap whatever profit there is off it. Christianity makes tons of money off of Hate, Bigotry, Misinformation and general Stupidity.

    Most of Christianity is composed of cowards, usually blaming society’s problems on someone else. The latest Scapegoats is the Gay Community. What’s next?, Aliens from Mars?

    Fact is, Christianity is running out of Scapegoats to blame your own failings and past horrors on.

    And, the rest of us are getting dam sick and tired of it. Christianity should be put back into Pandora’s Box now, way after it escaped 2000 years ago and the key thrown away for good.

    I still haven’t figured out why for 2000 years, you believer have no idea of Jesus’s entire life. You only know a small portion of it. Yet you base an entire world-religion on something you know very little about.

    Talk about being BRAINWASHED – WOW!

    • BDD1951

      Well, that a little over the top. I happen to be a christian and love everyone. I have a relative that is gay and he and his partner have been together have been for many years. If Texas ever comes out of the dark ages they will probably marry.

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        You may very well be a loving and kind person. I applaud your views.

        However, your religion as a whole isn’t. Even IF your religion as a whole loves everyone, in the public spotlight, you’re letting a fringe radical group of wackoos , the evangelicals, control the church’s private and public policies.

        So, until Christianity as a whole changes to a more so-called “loving” perspective on not only gay issues but a large array of social issues, especially on voting trends, my opinions about Christianity stands.

        • BDD1951

          Which is why I no longer attend my church. Even though I am a member of the Methodist church, we have a bunch of radicals pretending that they are christian.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            My companion was a member of a local Methodist Church. He quit the church before coming out gay. But, even before he came out, the church members were shunning him because he “left the flock”.

            After he came out, we found out through the grapevine how nasty some of these people’s opinions were about my companion because he left the church. Then the opinions got even worse when they found out he was gay.

            Great bunch of people, Love Thy Neighbor – NOT!

            What T’s me off is that these people “were” close friends as long as you “attended their church and was straight”.

            Rattle the boat a little, watch and see how many of these “friends” will dump you in a heartbeat.

          • BDD1951

            Sounds kind of “Amish” to me. I don’t think that they would do that in my church. There are only a few radicals there. Our church was built on love.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            I find most religious belief in humility, tolerance and love is just during Mass and “maybe” during a covered-dish get together.

            After Mass, thinking they are absolved of their sins, they’ll run you over trying to get to the nearest Bob Evans or whatever popular restaurant there is in the area.

            Don’t dare get in their way!

            My Dad said that when I was a kid – 50 years ago. Boy, was he ever right.

          • BDD1951

            Used to be Luby’s here until they closed. Now I don’t know where they go.

    • whitrober

      Mr. Warren and his ilk DO NOT speak for Christianity. I’m Christian and he certainly doesn’t speak for me. Jesus of Nazareth was counter-cultural, blasting the religious authorities of his day for exactly the kind of nonsense spouted by the Religious Right. But they are so far from practicing the Way of Jesus that it would be laughable if it weren’t so tragic.

      • idamag

        Whitrober, You sound like a real Christian. You do know that Jesus spoke against the hardness of the hearts of the old religion. People are quoting the Leviticus Laws to boost their homophobia. The Leviticus Laws also said a women in her mensus must be isolated from society 7 days because she was unclean. The were against anyone eating any animal that did not chew a cud or have a cloven hoof. Pork was unclean. To be good in the eyes of the Lord a person had to kill a fatten calf and burn it on the alter. And there were honor killings (those are not only in the Koran).

      • Del WS

        Funny and sad to me how many people who try to speak for Christians, tell them what to think, make a pile of money doing it, but ignore the parts of the Bible that emphasize not judging but instead embracing love, acceptance, and forgiveness.

    • What’s sad is what you are doing with what you DO know about His life.

  • Maya McCarthy Neal

    I wouldn’t exactly say he was being hostile… I don’t agree with Warren but he was rational… to some extent.. in his argument. On another note, I wish Piers had asked what makes certain “natural feelings” wrong. Answer would probably be the bible but still an interesting question. I’m wondering what Warren would say on the question posed- what if people who were unfaithful in a marriage weren’t allowed to remarry/have recognized marriages?

  • If this man is not careful he is going to give Christians a bad name. What a pathetic fraud and charlatan for a so-called man of God. Please go away.

    • Michael Kollmorgen

      Christianity already has a bad name. All this guy is doing is making it worse.

  • billbear1961

    Yes, of course, as a gay man, I should make every effort to remain an immaculate virgin for life! *rolls eyes*

    Is it my imagination, or does the Reverend Smugness look like he has some trouble resisting FOOD?

    Practice some self-restraint, pastor.

    No! What am I saying?

    Help yourself to as MUCH as you’d like as OFTEN as you’d like!

    (Scalia and Thomas, please follow the same advice!)

  • The problem with a lot of hypocritical “evangelicals” is that they practice the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. Jesus taught us to love everyone. Some of these so-called “Bible thumpers” practice hate and intolerance toward people who are different from them. This not only includes gays but blacks, hispanics, and the poor. The Jesus of the Bible rubbed shoulders and associated with sinners to win them over to Himself even though He did not condone their sins. These hypocritical “evangelicals” remind me of the religious Pharisees and Saduccees of Jesus’s day. Jesus strongly condemned them, in very strong language, for their religious hypocrisy, hate for others not like them,boastfulness and pride. He called them a den of vipers, hypocrites, and tombs full of dead men’s bones. What religious hypocrites tend to do is categorize sins. They’ll put certain sins as being the absolute worst while, at the same time, totally ignoring other sins which they themselves practice. God does not categorize sin. To Him, sin is sin. The person who tells a little white lie or commits adultery is on the same level as the person who commits murder or is a child molester or rapist. But, because of the hardness of man’s heart toward God’s truth, it is easy for the hypocritical “evangelicals” and so-called Christians to want to wear the name of Jesus but practice the exact opposite of what He taught. Jesus taught the rich to sell all they had and give it to the poor. A lot of right-wing rich people who call themselves Christians do the exact opposite. They follow the teachings of their right-wing guru, Ayn Rand, and believe that the rich should only get richer, at the expense of the poor, and not have any empathy or concern for the poor. They are not followers of Christ. They are followers of Ayn Rand and lovers of filthy lucre.

    • Well said. I couldn’t agree with you more. Sometimes, the twisted interpretation of Christianity espoused by the evangelicals sounds like something out of the anti-Christ…

      • BDD1951

        How are you getting along,Dom?

    • Well said.

    • sn77339

      They are nothing more than modern-day Pharisees, standing on street corners, thanking God at the top of their voices that they are not sinners like everyone else. Christ condemned the Pharisees and I think He would condemn people like rick Warren if He were alive today.

    • latebloomingrandma

      One of my favorite stories Jesus told was the parable of the Good Samaritan. I believe the point of the parable was that sometimes you must flout the “law” and just do the right thing. I don’t believe that mainstream Christian denominations are doing the right thing by marginalizing homosexuals. The fact that Jesus never addressed homosexuality says a lot also. He was all about loving God and our fellow man.

  • nobsartist

    Funny thing is, they are republiCONs and big supporters of lindsay graham.

  • dtgraham

    Listen to Morgan and Warren’s exchange on being born gay or “made” gay. The idea that everyone is really born heterosexual and is actually straight but, for some reason, decides to switch teams later in life and choose the gay lifestyle is just simply preposterous when given even a few moments of thought.

    I mean, how on earth would that work? Really. You know, some guy in his twenties looks in the mirror and says, “ooh yowza.” “Stylin’ and profilin’.” “Lookin’ good.” “Lookin’ fine.” “I tell ya, I’m through wasting this on chicks.” Would it be something like that? Some kind of instant homoerotic epiphany of conceit? Help me out here Rick.

    It’s really too bad that people have to engage in this kind of tortured logic and twisted contortions of reasoning in order to make their religion seem fair and sensible. Abandoning all common sense on this issue has made life a heck of a lot harder than it ever needed to be for gay people.

    I don’t seem to remember sitting around at 13 or 14 with both a Hustler magazine and a Playgirl magazine and saying to myself, “lemme see, which way am I going here?” “Brad Beefcake or Linda Lovelips?” “I’ll give myself a couple of weeks to make up my mind.” “I’ll have to give this some thought.” “I don’t want to make any rash decisions.” Funny, I don’t remember that at all. I don’t recall ever making a choice or ever being able to simply switch my orientation later on. I don’t think it works that way.

    • whitrober

      Yeah, and why on earth would anyone choose a sexual orientation that would likely bring more grief and abuse into their life? Kids DISCOVER — often to their horror — they’re gay; they don’t choose it. They’re horrified because of folks like Mr. Warren…

      • dtgraham

        Agreed completely whitrober. If it’s just a simple choice that we all must make and everyone can go either way easily, one would think that the discrimination, grief and abuse from choosing homosexuality would factor out all but the most hardy souls from making that choice. Using that viewpoint on orientation, there should be virtually no gay people.

        There are certainly contentious social issues that can be legitimately debated, but sexual orientation should never be one of them. Government must take the lead with certain laws which will then lead to a series of constant public and (hopefully) private initiatives, as societal attitudes begin to change permanently.

        Canada has put gay marriage and sexual orientation equality into the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms in their constitution. They’ve also enacted various hate speech laws concerning certain actions taken against gay Canadians. Sweden promotes gender equality, for example, right from the cradle via a plethora of public and private initiatives which all stem from legislation.

        These things can be done. It just takes fair minded people coming together to urge their government (employers, social groups, etc..) to do the right thing. Then, vote for the right people. America is chock full of wonderful, fair minded people and change is-a-comin’.

        I’m a middle aged heterosexual married man.

    • I have a hard time understanding Rick Warren’s logic. He offers two examples of this logic – he is angry and feels like punching a guy in the nose, there could be a dire consequence to this action in that the punched guy may retaliate and beat the S**t out of Rick Warren. The 2nd is seeing an attractive woman not his wife and acting on that, the consequence could be his wife divorces him and takes everything he owns. What is the consequence to him for 2 gay people marrying? I don’t see how 2 gay people getting married would effect me or my marriage.

      • TreKronnor

        I don’t either. I don’t know what the stats are of the growing list of countries who’ve enacted gay marriage legislation nationally, but there have been no changes to Canada’s divorce or heterosexual marriage rates since they legalized gay marriage.

  • Jim Lou

    Did he say that being gay might be natural? That is heresy!!!!

  • old_blu

    Don’t try pushing your views onto me.

    I can make it real simple, I’ve said it before.

    If you don’t belive in gay marriage, don’t marry a gay person. In other words MYOB. (mind your own business)

    • problem is God created male and female gensis 1;27 and said for this cause shall a (man) cleave to his wife and they shall become one flesh. this is God’s way genisis2;24 and it should be respected .

      • old_blu

        Why is that a problem? And why would I want to make that my problem? It’s still none of my business.

      • f0xhole

        You know, you’d think a guy who created the entire universe would be able to step in and stop a bit of legislation if he really had a problem with it. I guess he changed his mind, or maybe there’s a simpler explanation…

      • johninPCFL

        Do you still stone your children to death for speaking back (Deut 21:17-21)? Do you stone your neighbors for infidelity (Lev 20:10)? Don’t be such a hypocrit. Believe in the laws? Enact the penalties.

      • SueTX

        and IF you’re a devout Christian, this is something you will read and understand in context. HOWEVER if you’re not Christian, but one of the thousands of other faiths present in the United States, then this doesn’t apply to your life and has no meaning.
        This is why we *must* have separation of church and state. Marriage is a right for ALL consenting adults, regardless of color, creed or orientation.

      • It should be respected – by whom? By you?
        I think you mean, it should be respected by people who call themselves Christian and who adhere to the Bible as their scripture and the word of God.

        Do you really expect people who are not Christian to ‘respect’ your word of God? Why? Would you respect something that I said was the word of MY god?

        Jeez, if you don’t respect my religion, don’t go to my church!
        If you don’t want to see gay people get married, don’t go to their weddings.

        There is simply no reason whatsoever why I should cancel my wedding because YOUR “word of God” says I shouldn’t be having it. Sorry, but in this country, you get to have any religion you want – for yourself. In this country, neither I nor YOU has to adhere to any religion we don’t want to. That’s what freedom of religion is all about.
        You’d rather have freedom of religion, wouldn’t you?, instead of laws restricting the practice of religion? It may start with cleaving, but it won’t end there. Pretty soon some politically strong religious people will make a law that your religion doesn’t agree with, and you’ll be the first one to jump up and shriek “Freedom of Religion”!

      • Why of course! We should follow each and every single law of a book that was written hundreds of years ago by men who never witnessed any of the supposed events contained therein.
        We should put to death anyone who works on the Sabbath, sell our daughters into slavery if we can’t afford to feed them, put to death anyone who gets a tattoo or decorates a tree. You know there’s hundreds more. Follow them all!
        The Christian bible is merely a book of conflicting stories. Following any of it is ridiculous in the extreme.

      • RobertCHastings

        If you adhere to that, then you must also realize that in the Book of Genesis there are two DIFFERENT versions about the creation of man and woman, one that woman was created from one of Adam’s ribs, and another avowing the simultaneous creation of Man and Woman from the same clump of clay. So which one is correct, or are both of them (that would be a logical disconnect). The Bible is full of errata, both in statement and interpretation. Attempts to interpret or to follow the Bible literally are illogical and doomed to failure because of the multitude of opportunities for misinterpretation. Remember, the Torah was written originally over 2,800 years ago by MANY different hands, in a language that, by the time of the King James Version, was virtually lost and forgotten. Down through the centuries, the various translators of the Old Testament and the New Testament have had their own political and social agendas, which managed to creep into the interpretations. As with translating ANY document from one language into another, there are NO one to one correlations between any languages, because of the phenomenon of idiomatic speech. Try taking Spanish instructions for pretty much anything and translating it, word for word, into English. It doesn’t work, just like the ancient language of the Bible translating into English, word for word,doesn’t work.

      • The Bible was written by man. It is not the ‘word’ of God.

        • Michael Kollmorgen

          Ahhh, but you are forgetting one little detail.

          Religious people will claim the bible is the word of god, because the “knowledge” of its contents was divine received knowledge directly from god.

          I could claim the same thing IF I took enough drugs – preferably Acid.

      • Ibsyboy

        That’s not a problem, you are quoting from the same book Southern Ministers used to deny the Negroes their freedom under Emancipation and again during the Civil Rights Movement.

        I see that the Bible provides every bigot who owns one a rational for their bigoted views. How convenient. God works in mysterious ways. He did see fit that the Negroes were freed from slavery, something approved by his very words in the Bible.

        Confusing wouldn’t you say?

      • phantomoftheopera

        and what did jesus say? nothing about gays. not a word. but a whole lot about not judging! guess HIS words are meaninglesds to you.

      • SueTX

        Your reply only applies to one is a Christian who believes in literal interpretation of the Bible.
        Our nation is a secular one for a reason – there are *MANY* faiths, and many who have no faith at all. No one faith is allowed to determine our lives, thank God!
        My family and I are devout Christians who believe in the words of Christ “LOVE ONE ANOTHER”…and those words take precedent over all of the rest of the scriptures except to love God.

      • SueTX

        Again Anthony, not everyone is Christian and not everyone interprets the Bible the same way you do. You are welcome to follow your beliefs so long as they don’t impinge on mine.

    • rpg1408

      Better to say MYOFB. THESE sanctimonious ” men of God” make me ill.

      • They are actually agents of the anti-Christ. Their views and actions are the exact opposite from what Jesus Christ taught us.

        • pathological religions are the work of the devil

    • onedonewong

      Then quit looking for societies approval for your moral deviancy

  • TSB

    Why are adulteres allowed to hold a public office or minister a congregation?

  • Charvi3

    There was on the news a few months ago…about a man that went to the doctor with kidney problems…and through examinations…they found out that he had female as well as male organs…think about this…a lot of mistakes can be made…and that is probably why a lot of people are gay…even his wife..said that she knew something was different about her husband…oh, well…I say this that all sins if God considers it a sin to be born that between all people and God only…so, stop the talk about them…I am not a lesbian..and if I was a man I would not be gay…but, God loves everyone even the people that are lesbians and someone said “Mind Your Own Business”

  • If history in America has taught us anything, (and apparently it hasn’t) it’s that you can’t legislate morality. Unless people thought that Prohibition was a rousing success, it’s failed when we’ve tried.

  • “When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in a flag, and carrying a cross.”

  • On another note, Rick’s argument about acting on feelings is fundamentally flawed. You don’t punch a person every time you want to because you know it’s a crime. Not only that, you can injure or possibly even kill that person. Secondly, you don’t act on an attraction to another woman who is not your wife because you made a vow to your spouse to be faithful, to love and to honor that person. By acting on feelings, you are betraying that person and your vows. Arsenic is natural, but everyone knows it’s poisonous and can kill you. There are other natural poisons we know about, and we avoid those too because we don’t want to get sick and die from them.

    One gay person loving another gay person does not injure or kill another person, it does not betray someone else, and it’s not poisonous.

    So, I fail to see the comparisons in that argument.

  • howa4x

    This is why the founders wanted no national religion. ? They knew that Europe was constantly besiged with religious wars.
    The religious right here is funny. One one hand they want government out of their home life, religion and busniess, and on the other they want to government to legislate what goes on in the bedroom if you’re not like them. They love war and especially against those godless commies or Islamic radicals even though killing is frowned upon by their saviour and every tenent of their religion, and they hate pre marital sex
    They wonder why thinking people don’t take them seriously

    • idamag

      how, yup. Stay out of my life, as an American Citizen, but make laws for my religion.

  • idamag

    If Gays were only a lasting friendship, it wouldn’t bother jerkoffs like Warren. However, they have an intimate life and this is none of anyone’s business, but it bothers some people who could be latent Gays and are fighting themselves more than they are fighting others. I have a statement for these people, “GET YOUR NOSE OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE’S CROTCHES!”

  • RonTruth

    Problem is that with these rightwingnutcases, they don’t usually stop demanding that government
    legislate just those things that support human life. Hitler started off by organizing unions so that
    people could make more money, own their own homes, etc. Then he went on to try to determine what (who) his “problem” was. He blamed Jews for his country’s economic woes. That led him to
    persecution of Jews in education and business. Then he moved on to his “final solution.” We all
    know what that turned out to be. He murdered 6,000,000 Jews. He murdered millions of others who he felt stood in his way of producing his “master race.”

    He was, whether you know it or not, a baptized “Christian.” Yet, he turned out to hate the very people that Jesus was born into. He massacred them just like the Romans crucified Jesus who then rose on the third day of Passover to secure salvation to people who lived, through faith in Him, by the Torah He gave to Moses as the pre-incarnate Christ; God the Son.

    Hitler, it is rumored, was part Jewish. He certainly did not believe in keeping God’s Torah Law.
    He was really NOT a Judeo-Christian. He used government to legislate what he called “morality.”
    It was really only a form of fascist dictatorship.

    • idamag

      Ron, I have been an avid studier of hitler (he doesn’t deserve capitalization) and he destroyed the unions. He was against unions, Communists, Gays, Gypsies, people with developmental disabilities, and Jews.

      The rumor of hitler’s ethnic origins were started because his mother, as a single young girl, worked for a wealthy Jewsish family. She became pregnant, was unwed in a time when the punishment and humiliation for become pregnant out of wedlock was great. The rumor is that the son of the wealthy family got her pregnant. hitler took his stepfather’s name.

      Yes, hitler was baptized a Christian and claimed his final solution was “God’s Work.”

      • ralphkr

        If you have studied Hitler so avidly then you know that Hitler had Jewish friends and greatly admired his Jewish officers during WW1. Personally, I have often wondered how he learned about protecting the gene pool and breeding a master race since I have never read anywhere that Hitler ever visited the US but I imagine that Eugenics was not restricted to US scientists and doctors. After all, eugenics was the medical policy in the US and 30 states (not just Republican states) had laws requiring that “defective” humans be either locked away in institutions set up for that purpose (my mother came from a town where the largest business was storing defective humans) or sterilized before being released into the general population.

        Living on a farm where we bred cattle Eugenics made perfect sense to me when it was taught in grade school. I recall that we were taught that every one should take great care when picking someone as a breeding partner and the teacher was a great advocate of the government supervising pairing up in order breed a master race. Ah the joys of growing up in a super conservative Republican state.

  • When I hear people like Rick Warren putting down people for being gay and doing it so fervently I always wonder if they are actually gay themselves and that they are self loathing of themselves because they are gay. I’ve always heard that the guilty one always speaks first, so are all the gay bashers and haters actually hiding their sexuality with their words of hate and intolerance toward gays.

    • idamag

      Hill, I had a friend who was a gay basher and obsessed with who was gay and who was not. He was married and had a family. The anger in his marriage was obvious to all that knew them. He took a temporary job to get a lot of money and while they were apart, she divorced him. He moved to California. I was doing a job in his area and contacted him. He was living with a nice young man and they had a relationship. He was so relaxed as the part of California he lived in was not narrow minded and judgemental. He found others like him. When he told me he was gay I told him I knew. He wanted to know how I knew. I told him his anti-gay rhetoric gave him away.

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        You are right. That’s how it usually goes.

        Another big one is all these far right, anti-gay, religious youth group counselors getting caught messing with kids. Most of em are upstanding republican far right family men to boot.

        Please notice all the stuff coming out about the Christian-based Boy Scouts too.

        These examples and more give the Gay Community a real bad name. No self-respecting Gay man would mess with a kid.

  • Michael Kollmorgen

    Some time ago, Christianity used to use the excuse that they saw no gay activity in the animal kingdom as a way of justifying at least in part the Church’s stance on homosexuality NOT being a natural occurance.

    Of course this very view is a misnomer considering Christianity considers man apart from nature, not part of nature. This was their first big mistake believing that man is separate from nature. This schoid view comparing man with nature is screwed up as well, since you can’t have it both ways. They tried though at least on the gay issue.

    Recent in-the-field research has proven that homosexuality is very prevalent in the animal kingdom, being displayed in all species. So, if this don’t prove that mankind is part of nature and evolved from it, I’d like to know what is.

    As far as going over the top in my previous post, I don’t believe I have. It’s all quite accurate when you consider Christianity as a whole.

    I know many good Christians who support my companion and I in everything that we do. BUT, would this support also translate into support of gay marriage in the ballot box? I don’t know. So, in the end, I have to take their support with a grain of salt and take a watch and LISTEN additude.

    I know more than enough Christians who will pat you on the back, but cough and sputter when the discussion really gets into the issue of gay marriage. They usually like to end the conversation and turn to something more to their liking. That leaves me suspicious of what their true intent of the “friendship” is actually about. When cornered and pressed for a clarification of an opinion, I’ve had a few who burst into tears because they can’t think of anything else to turn to at that moment.

    • SueTX

      Michael, my husband, son and I are all avid, vocal VOTING supporters of Marriage Equality, even in the depths of south Texas.
      There is hope.

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        I suppose you could classify yourself and your family very lucky.

        There are probably more than a few down there, maybe even some of your neighbors, who would love to burn your house down for your support.

        But, thank you for your support:)

  • onedonewong

    Pastor warren is certainly over reaching on that one. Homosexuals are no different than ax murders bank robbers and child molesters

    • Michael Kollmorgen

      Come On! I know YOU can do better than this……………………..

      • onedonewong

        There is a long line of deviant behaviour just don’t have the time to enumerate them all. Sufficed to say deviance is the onlt reason why the GLBT community exists

        • Michael Kollmorgen

          Actually, people such as yourself have created a situation where the GLBT Community was created for.

          You should have never stuck your noses in our bedrooms.

          • TreKronnor

            Michael, one of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau’s famous sayings was that the government had no place in people’s bedrooms. That was in the late 60’s or early 70’s and that phrase is still popular and quoted in Canada to this day. I couldn’t help but think of it when I read your post.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Religious People in the US has used the government since time immortal to legislate sex.

            They can’t do it on their own, so they use the government to achieve their goals.

            In direct response to this, the Gay Community is now using the government to fight back, enacting new laws, decriminalizing laws on the books.

            This has been going on since the founding of this country.

            I don’t like government in our faces anymore than anyone else. But, if it guarantees our rights and upholds our current laws (hate crime legislation) and achieves our goals of the Gay Community, I’m all for it.

            The US is a mess, always has been. IF I could do this all over again, I’d move to Canada. Should have done it 40 years ago.

          • onedonewong

            They’re free to do what they want in their homes it’s when they branch out to the schools and want society’s approval for their life style is what I object to

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            I never sought society’s approval for my actions.

            What I do seek is the right to marry the one I love, regardless how one wishes to call it, which also must include all federal and state rights and responsibilities.

            And, I don’t personally care if getting hitched is in front of a judge either.

            I’d also like to see job, housing discrimination eliminated and greater protection from law enforcement when we are beaten to a pulp and usually ignored.

            I’d like to see our gay establishments stop being bombed.

            All I want is to be married like any other married couple, go to work without the fear someone is going to find out I’m gay and get fired, or forced out of a rental because of my sexual orientation, or walk the street without the fear of getting my head bashed in.

            All I want is what any other american citizen takes for granted every day.

          • onedonewong

            Again you want society’s approval for your deviant life style. That’s like a rapist demanding a share of a women’s SS because he raped her, or a child molester be allowed to visit and work with kids in a shelter.
            I’m unaware of any discrimination in regards to employment or housing. Other than some non profits I’ve never seen anyone turned down because they are gay unless they were flamers or tells the potential employer. Why would any employer want to hire some one gay knowing that their insurance premiums will go up
            I’d like to see gays stop spreading AIDs
            I’d like to see the govt end SSDI for AIDS and end the Ryan White give away that is totally unjustified.
            Walk the street and not get your head bashed in?? Some how or other your antagonizing some one to take action. If you would like it to end look in the mirror.
            Looks gays are less than 2% of the population and no one really cares what you do. So go live your life and quit demanding societies blessing

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            I can’t respond to you last comments like I’d like to. Just not enough space.

            But, you are an ignorant fool.

            Do you know who is the current biggest spreader of Aids? It isn’t a gay man.

            I’ll give you a few days to figure this one out.

            2% of the population is gay? Most recent studies place the percentage quite higher. Officially, it’s around 10%.

            I would place it much higher and only because some people are still afraid to come out of the closet. Try 15-20%.

            Your first few sentences in your last post showed me just how bigoted you really are. Using the same age-old scapegoats and scare tactics.

            Discrimination on the job? Plenty of it. I’ve experienced it myself.

            I’ve told you before, I don’t need society’s blessings. And, I sure don’t need it from someone like you that perceives him/her self as being a christian.

            You are speaking from a position of not knowing anything about being gay or any of our problems. Either you are too old to learn anything new, or extremely bigoted to even try to let yourself understand someone elses problems.

            You are a dieing species. The sooner society gets rid of the type of person you are, the better off we all will be, including Christianity as a whole – a heart attack, a bullet in the head would suit me just fine.

            The type of person you are portraying yourself to be in this thread and a few more around here, leads me to feel absolutely no sympathy for you what so ever.

            You’re a SOB! Plain and simple.

          • onedonewong

            Biggest spreader of AIDs = Homo’s
            Sorry even the US Census pegs the number at BELOW 2% the only morons spouting that 10% number is gays and lesbians in an attempt to appear like their deviancy is some what normal
            You may peg it at 15-20 but that’s because you are clueless its higher in Chimps and dogs but that’s because they don’t know what they are doing.
            Age old?? All I did was posts the facts and for some reason you offered no rebuttal other than crying like a little girl
            On the job discrimination then as I said you must be a flamer so you brought it on your self
            I am a Christian and God doesn’t hate the sinner but the sin. You can’t ask him for forgiveness and then go out and do it again. And yes you are DESPERATELY looking for societies approval. Other wise you wouldn’t care about marriage
            The only dying species are gays thankfully they can’t reproduce so each one that dies means there are fewer sicko’s
            Unlike you I don’t crave societies approval, my is earned by deed and accomplishments you on the other hand are a sick pathetic deviant

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Sorry, can’t reply now.

            column getting too small to say what I’d like to say to you.

            But, anyway, yer full of crap.

            End of discussion.

          • onedonewong

            wouldn’t know only gays swing that way

    • ObozoMustGo

      odw… When you are right, you are right. Homosexuality is just another in a long list of deviant behaviors. I have a buddy who is a faggot and even he admits it’s deviant. I like him and he’s a really good guy. Not a flamer. But deviant just the same.

      By the way, I like how they tell us to get out of their bedrooms, yet they make their bedrooms our public business when they attempt to get special legal recognition based upon what they do in their bedrooms. Do they think that their efforts for special legislation passage based upon what gender person they screw should go completely unopposed? They must think that.

      Have a nice day, odw!

      “The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.” – Ronald Reagan

      • Michael Kollmorgen

        You can’t say your “friend is deviant” and still call him a friend.

        You can’t have it both ways.

        Sorry, but you are NO friend of his. In fact, you are a Traitor to the friendship. He ought to drop you like a lead sinker and go on with his own life.

        And, by the way, it wasn’t the gay community who first started this all. It was these religious nutcases poking their noses in our bedrooms, passing laws against us and generally discriminating against us when found out.

        IF these wackoos didn’t stick their noses where it didn’t belong, all of us wouldn’t be having the problems we have today.

        And, we,re, the gay community along with people of conscience, is fighting back BIG TIME.

        Ronald Reagan? He wasn’t even a good Class B actor, let alone a President.

        • ObozoMustGo

          Mike, I’m fairly sure you’re a go0d guy. Most people are regardless of who they are banging. But my buddy is at least honest when he says homosexuality is a form of deviant behavior. There are lots of forms of deviant behavior, and many people are afflicted with one or more of them. It doesn’t make you a bad guy. But you are wrong. I don’t know any relgious people that “discriminate” against gays or who “stick their noses in your bedroom”. Most people don’t give a damn what you do in your bedroom. I’m sure there may be one or 2, but not like you freaks pretend there to be. You have always had the same rights under the law as everyone else. No different. The trouble is that you guys flaunt your deviancy by demanding special legislative recognition for your private sexual behavior. YOU make it everyone else’s business when YOU go to the public forum for special treatment. If you dont like it, keep you mouth shut, mind your own business, and screw whomever you want however you want when you want. And no one cares.

          Thanks for your input, Mike.

          And at least Reagan had real jobs before running for office, unlike the socialist community organizer and Chicago thug that never earned a damned thing on his own in his entire miserable existence.

          Here’s a pic of your messiah, Obozo, when he was gay. Click image to enlarge

          Have a nice day!

          “Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don’t mean to do harm– but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves.” — T. S. Eliot

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Oh please…………….

            Your buddy, if he was truely a gay man with any self-respect would not consider his behavior as being deviant.

            IF you mean HERE being in a public forum, you’re right. I believe I still have freedom of speech. All I do is counter a few opinions here from people who are in the Neanderthal stage of human evolution.

            Once again, you people find yourselves in the minority – I’d say at least around 5% in the minority view on this thread.

            I don’t ask for “special rights”. All I need is equality and equal treatment under the law. And, if that means “giving” me marriage rights, so be it. We should have had that right all along between consenting adults.

            We ain’t going away, go back into our closets like YOU freaks would like us to do. We are going to be a real pain in your asses for as long as it takes.

            F*ck The Church. Since the Evangelical Movement got involved with Politics during Reagan’s term, they’ve gotten just as dirty. And, by the way, I bet you didn’t even know this; a church wedding without a state marriage license is not a valid marriage. It’s not even a legal marriage. Marriage is a state function, no longer a religious one. I could be wrong, but I doubt any church is legally allowed to perform a wedding without a license being present. So, that shows the power of the church – NOT!

            That pic don’t mean twat to me. I could very easily find someone who looks like Obama in that age group too. Don’t prove a thing to me. Besides, what makes you think he was gay in that picture? Just because two guys are sitting together doesn’t mean they are gay. If that were the case, every freaking sports bar in the country would be filled with shitfaced gay men. And, most of these guys rub asses better than my companion and I do.

            You must be pretty screwed up in the head to think two guys sitting together mean they are gay. Are you really that bad?

            Your logic is totally deficient of any true meaning or base.

            And, don’t patronize me by saying you think I’m a good guy. For all you care, you’d have me disappear rather than seeking my rights and being a vocal as I am. That ain’t gonna happen.

      • dtgraham

        Michael Kollmorgen just left a post saying pretty much exactly what I wanted to say to you Obozo. It isn’t “special” legislation that they want giving them some extra rights that are over and above the rights others take for granted. They want to lose any specialness and simply be treated like everyone else. They just don’t want to be discriminated against in housing, employment, or anything else in the same way that you and I aren’t due to the accident of birth that made us heterosexual.

        Michael didn’t choose to be gay Obozo. None of them did.

  • If Rick thinks orientation is a choice, then he believes he’s bisexual.

    He also conveniently overlooks the sin of gluttony amongst his “giving units”. (Southern Baptist leaders actually used that term until it was recently made public)

    There are no rich celebrity preachers in Heaven, Rick — but that teaching of Jesus doesn’t seem to phase you at all.

  • Katstiles

    I read part of Warren’s book. When I got to the chapter about Noah being over 400 years old when he started building the Ark and Warren believing this to be true, I stopped reading. When an intelligent, grown man believes with all his heart that humans 2,000+ years ago used to live to be hundreds of years old, I can no longer trust his judgement. It you believe Noah was that old, then why not believe in Greek Mythology? The Gods of Olympus and the heroes and monsters of those stories? Let’s believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and all kinds of fairy tales. An then expect intelligent people to believe your judgement to be sound and fair?

  • Rick Warren’s views remind me of the excuses used by the Third Reich to slaughter millions of Jews, the excuses used by the Inquisition during their “purity of blood” purges, and the rationale used by Pol Pot and Idi Amin to murder millions of people.
    The illuminati belong in the annals of history. There is no room for people like Rich Warren in the 21st century. The sad part, is not so much what idiots like Warren, Akin, Allen and others say, but the fact that so many people share their views and support them.

  • Christianity in and of itself is not the evil entity that some of the writers here are trying to portray.

    As with the Muslims, there will always be people who distort the teachings in order to justify their own perverted beliefs.

  • I love Christ and His teachings. It’s just the Christians who upset me with their bigoted hatred.

  • howa4x

    Religious rights mantra is government stay out of my house and life but go into everyone’s we deem to be different

  • Jack Wormer

    Religions, especially those stemming from, and based on Middle Eastern Culture, were invented by small tribes, who through the hocus-pocus of metaphysics tried to compensate for their weakness in numbers with respect to their larger and more powerful neighboring tribes. It is no surprise, then, to learn that in their thirst for power they “wrote” in their “Holy Books” strict guidelines for individual sexual behavior – since they dimly realized that some sexual behavior does indeed lead to growth in numbers – hence GREATER POWER!

    Thus, the abomination of a Pope Benedict XVI, in 2012!, in a near catatonic monotone proclaiming to a mankind of some 7- billion PLUS folks that “sexual intercourse is ONLY GOOD BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN – FOR THE PROPAGATION OF THE HUMAN RACE”!

    Thus, also, the abomination of a “pastor” Warren speaking “expertly” on a part of humanity he and his peers have been indoctrinated from their earliest years to ABHOR, DETEST, AND CONDEMN – and REPRESS into the depths of their innermost beings!

  • JulieZ77

    Rick Warren is a total idiot crackpot that should never have been listened to in the first place.

  • ChristianMartin

    More proof the Republicons just dont get it. Are they trying to further alienate their own party? I have respect for most biblical principles even though I find most Christians hostile, fake, and disgusting….I just dont see how folks think it is any of their business who someone else marries or what they do in their bedroom. What’s next from the Republiturds?….Morality cams in peoles homes? Drug sensors installed in your sewer mains coming from your houses? I still cant believe I used to belong to that party and never really realized how widespread the ignorance and hostility was/is.

    • Michael Kollmorgen

      I honestly believe the final conclusion of the religious rights goals is to have everyone up to the age of 21 wear Chasity Belts. After 21, wear monitors to monitor their sexual behavior. Some religious denominations are trying to push the legal age of consent to way past 21, even up to age 25.

      What is with these people that they need to be so concerned about even someones straight sex, not to mention gay sex?

      It’s only been in the last few years sodomy between consenting adults has been decriminalized overall in most of our states. People, overall don’t realize that these laws effect not only the gay community, but straight married couples as well.

      The only thing I can think of is that religion has found a way of funneling sexual energy into religious fervent to support a religious belief. Afterall, sexual energy is a very powerful tool to use against anyone.

      Talk about deviants? WOW, religion takes the prize on all counts.

      • ChristianMartin

        I was raised Southern Baptist and now pray that some type of hero or cataclysm will wipe them out. Christian extremists have managed to do exactly what Islamic fundamentalists have done….f_ck up a faith/belief system (that actually had some sound principles in the beginning) by developing some bizarre obsession with controlling what others do. It’s not hard to understand why they were kicked out of Old England. It embarrasses and sickens me that my name is Christian.

        • Michael Kollmorgen

          There have been quite a few christian missionaries that got kicked out of Australia a few years ago. They were found involving themselves too much into the local politics of the country.

          Every time these people show up, there is usually trouble eventually. Look what happened in Uganda? The gay community there was living in relative peace until they showed up. Now, the county’s passed laws against them, short of a death sentence.

          As far as your first name being Christian, you can always change that to whatever you feel the need to change it to. But, I will tell you, most people’s normal/usual first names are religious based such as Michael, john, etc.

          I’d like to change my last name. It’s horrible, half the people can’t pronounce it, let alone spell it correctly. In German it means Cool Morning. But, being 63 now, why bother. I should of done that years ago.

          • ChristianMartin

            I probably shouldnt change mine either considering I was named after my Dad’s best friend who he accidentally killed in a car crash
            while they were both drunk. The jews get kicked out of almost every where they go for the same reasons the Christians do. They insist on taking over banking/finance, news/media, and eventually wind up deeply entrenched in politics. And then have the clueless audacity to bitch and whine and play the welI rehearsed victim when it ends in banishment or violence. It never ceases to amaze me the lack of self awareness (or group awareness for that matter) that exists within these bizarre and often violent cults (Christians,Jews,Muslims). They refuse to realize or acknowledge that the only thing we havnt tried is a belief and faith in ourselves,our families,our friends. Their solution to f_cked up, war-mongering, violent religions is……more religion. Sort of like our own government here in the U.S. – the solution to incompetent,corrupt government is somehow bigger government with broader powers? Hopelessly ignorant and shortsighted.

  • Happy2bback

    All the bible talk. This country was founded on seperation of church and state. Why do I have the right to make someone be in a miserable loveless relationship just because I’m not wired the same way? There are gay couples who have longvity in their relationships . Why should they be forced to not have the same rights that heteosexuals have. The rights to joint held properties the ability to make medical decisions the tax and health care issues. Do you really think that God is not smart enough to fix this if it is genetic? Sometimes I think it’s his way to see how we really treat our fellow brothers and sisters. The so called Christens are failing miserably

  • A gay person might punch pastor Rick in the face. If Rick followed God’s advice or Jesus he would do good not evil. So he must be part of Satan’s orginization.

  • kokuakaumanua1

    How sad that there are folks who take the Christ out of Christianity. Gandhi said that if everyone followed just what Jesus had to say in his Sermon on the Mount, this world would be a better place.
    ‘Blessed are the peacemakers’ said Jesus.
    I say that if you aren’t f**king me, I don’t care what your persuasion is…it is none of my business…and for everyone else, I am with old_blu, MYOB too.

  • Umm…isn’t it a sin to covet one’s neighbors wife? Isn’t the pastor supposed to be the LAST one to be attracted to another woman? Hypocrisy be thine name.

  • onedonewong

    warren is 100% correct moral deviancy has been around since adam and eve. What sets us apart from animals is free will the ability to chose right from wrong.
    Ax murders have free will and make the wrong choice, pedophiles have free will and just like gays are have close to 100% recidivism after leaving jail, The same for rapists who also have free will and have high rates of recidivism.
    Time to demand these amoral individuals to grow UP

  • Thou shall not judge.

  • RobertCHastings

    Dear Rick, you miss the point, entirely. If it is natural it IS right, or it would not be natural. Arsenic has its place in the Scheme, as does homosexuality, as does snow, as does the sun,etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. Anything natural is, by definition, of nature, and Nature is the creation of He Who has created everything, or have you forgotten that?

    • Michael Kollmorgen

      But, but, but!

      According to Christianity, man is not a natural product of this earth. Therefore, logically we are not natural.

      According to Christianity, man was to be separate from nature, apart, above and beyond, a special creation. This is why god gave mankind total dominion over all.

      Anyone who believes this has got a few marbles loose.

      I tend to believe “some” of this since I don’t believe mankind is a natural product of this planet. I believe we are some grand experiment by some very advanced aliens that put our genes here and let us evolve from that point on. We did not originate from the Primoral Soup.

      I base my belief on the fact that mankind is the most destructive species to ever walk this earth. He kills his own kind for pleasure and will destroy everything around him to achieve what ever goal he might have.

      Nature does not act in this way. We, if anything, are all freaks, not really meant to be here.

      I got a feeling these aliens are going to come back one of these days and correct their mistake and wipe us all off this planet and leave this planet in its natural state as it was meant to be.

  • KM

    F*** YOU MR Warren, your filthy virus didn’t kill every faggot like you wanted, GET OVER IT!

    • Michael Kollmorgen

      I still believe it was a religious right conspiricy to totally ignore the Aids problem in the gay community. They were hoping it will kill us all off. Very similar to what preachers did to the Indians, giving them smallpox laden blankets thinking it will kill them off also.

      Only thing though, these stupid idiots didn’t realize that many of their own kind were messing with us under the blankets.

  • RES

    What do people find it nessary to bring God into the discussions on Gay People and Gay peoples Rights. No one knows the mind of God or his opinions. Everyone has a right to believe in God or to not believe. Everyone has the right to believe that the Bible is true and is Gods word or not to believe the bible.. Why do people find it necessary to say such nasty things about God and the Bible. I kown that God is real and his word is real. The Bible was spiritually inspired in the mind and lives of men that God chose to write it… For one thing it is a history of Gods movement in the world up until Christ Birth and his life time. The Writting of the Bible was finished but it was not fulfilled . The Holy Spirit Lives in the world but if you don’t believe in God you don’t feel it or understand it because you have rejected him.. That is your right.

    • Michael Kollmorgen

      IF there is a god, which I don’t believe there is, no one will ever know the mind of god until they pass over to the other side.

      All of our religions are all based on FEAR of death in one way or the other. We may find out after crossing over that whatever is on the other side, that we thought we knew, is totally false and totally incomprehensible to the human mind.

      All these preachers, ministers, popes, sages, holy men are doing nothing but blowing smoke out their asses – basically creating a fear of something every single man, woman, child, animal will eventually experience.

      This is the one BIG common denominator among all living creatures. We’re all going to die. Face it, deal with it. But, don’t fear it. It could be just another step, another great adventure.

      Who knows, IF we have a soul, a spirit, it might get sucked into a Black Hole, pop out on the other side of a White Hole in a new Universe, born again.

      And, fearing reprisals from some spooky god-thing is the worst way to conduct a lifetime. It’s certainly no way to conduct your death.

  • Ibsyboy

    Rick Warren is a hustler. The worst kind. He employs himself as a Man of God. There are no such things as Men of God. Every human on earth are of God.

    Rick Warren, hit a note that attacked attention and he applied himself to perfecting that note all the way to the privileged life his Man of God routine provides him.

    He is just one in a long list of Elmer Gantrys, playing off the anxiety and insecurities of average Americans. Some day he will join Jerry Falwell in that well heated hotel room for ex Men of God.

    A charlatan just like the rest of those money taking, exploiters of loneliness, fear, insecurity, concern about tomorrow and the inevitable end of life.

    What the hell does he know that we don’t? How to successfully make a buck at BS-ing people.

  • Jim

    Allow me to tell of my natural attraction and how I am compelled to control it. I believe I am genetically attracted to beverage alcohol. I am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and all of us that I know in that group feel the same way. We have friends that can partake of alcoholic beverages and walk away without any compulsion for more. I cannot do that. I must control my desire for booze because the culture in which I live does not condone my continual inebriation. However, my gay friends do not accept that internal control factor. They prefer to manipulate the culture to accept their attraction. That is the rub. Will our culture support a minority that wants a change? Will gay marriage damage our culture as much as drunkenness? We must approach the question carefully as there may be some “side effects” in our society by a change in the historic laws of nature and culture.

    • Michael Kollmorgen

      Poor examples of trying to compare two completely different issues.

      If you really want to try and compare apples with apples, let’s go and try and compare mixed racial marriage to gay marriage.

      In each case, the Church stigmatized both groups. In fact, there are a few churches down south that won’t marry mix race couples which recently was in the news.

      How as mixed race marriages impacted society? Not in the least.

      Will gay marriage impact society? In every single article I have read, every research paper I have read, there is NO impact what so ever.

      Historic Laws of Nature? What kind of Psycho-Babble is that?

      As far as Culture, The United States NEVER had a culture we can claim we created on its own. The US is a conglomeration of just about every conceivable culture there is on the face of the globe. The Gay Culture has been here all along but hidden from public view.

      The only side-effect I can see is being culturally richer as a result of gay marriage, a more equitable culture as well.

  • mugwort2

    Rick Warren is an example of the bigotry of right wing Christianity. Everyone and anyone, whether straight or gay, should choose who they love. That is regardless of sexuality. I think it was horrible for Mr. Warren to utter such disgusting, insensitive anti gay sentiments at the 2010 Mayor Anisse Parker’s start of her administration as mayor of Houston TX. Anisse Parker is one of the first openly gay mayors of any major US city.

  • ridemybroom

    Warren is a good example of gay man wanting to come out of the closet….think this man is gay…he not only sounds gay but looks gay as well…he hides behind women and thinks they can change is sexuality for the men in his life……hes a lost soul swimming around in a fishing bowl….the man is hideous and a real piece of work and he thinks hes going to heaven…love the way these people think ….he is a far leftist right winger if one can say that….hes trying hard to be an upfront liberal but really want to be in the far right conservative party…hes another one thats trying to rearrange the words around in the Bible and trying to make it a complete nutcase like himself…dont listen to this man…he is dangerous and idont care what side of the fence you are on he cannot be trusted……

  • Well, based on his own comments, according to the bible to have the thought is the same as to do the deed, sooo, according to his own teachings, he wouldn’t have the desire to punch someone in the face if he had the love of God in his heart, so, he is going straight to hell.