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Monday, February 18, 2019

Such troubled young men.

This is what we call them instead of nuts with guns, and they are a dreaded modern American cliché. Every time there’s a newsflash about another mass shooting, we now expect the culprit to be revealed as a “troubled young man.”

The murders at a Louisiana movie theater on Thursday were unusual because the gunman was in his 50s. The typical mass killer is much younger.

His family is always stunned by his crime. So are the few friends he has. And in the days following the massacre we always learn more about his loneliness and disillusion, and of course the ludicrous ease with which he was able to arm himself.

The story has become, after so many horrid tragedies, a fill-in-the-blank exercise.

In the hours after 24-year-old Mohammod Abdulazeez killed five U.S. servicemembers in Chattanooga, Tennessee, the media frothed with speculation that he was working under the jihadist direction — or, at least, inspiration — of ISIS.

Now it appears he was a messed-up kid who drank too much booze, smoked too much weed, and spent too much money. Oh, he was also depressed.

FBI agents believe Abdulazeez began exploring Islamic radicalism as his money problems worsened, and his mental condition frayed. Shortly before his shooting spree, he searched the Internet for guidance as to whether martyrdom would absolve a person’s sins.

Evidently he found a website or a chat room that seeded this loony brainstorm, and sent him down the path of mass murder. Getting the firepower was, as always, no problem.

Ironically, the day Abdulazeez died after shooting four Marines and a Navy sailor, a jury in Denver was deliberating what to do about another troubled young man.

His name is James Eagan Holmes, age 27. In July 2012 he shot up a packed theater during a Batman movie, killing a dozen people and wounding 70 more.

His lawyers insisted Holmes was insane, which is certainly true. Jurors went ahead and convicted him of all 12 murders, of which he is certainly guilty.

Holmes has Phi Beta Kappa intelligence — a degree, with honors, in neuroscience — but was also deeply disturbed from a young age. Some described him as obsessed with the topic of murder, and speaking openly of wanting to kill people.

And kill he did, first loading up on heavy-duty firearms at Gander Mountain and Bass Pro Shops — two Glock pistols, a Remington “tactical” shotgun, and a Smith & Wesson assault-style semiautomatic rifle. The 6,000-plus rounds of ammunition Holmes purchased online.

See, he passed the background checks. So don’t look for any blood on the hands of the retailers that armed him.

The gun laws being what they are in this country, the transition from “troubled” to “homicidal” is a breeze. What feeble screening there is can’t be counted on to stop young men on bloodbath missions.

Dylann Roof, age 21, shouldn’t have been able to buy the .45-caliber handgun he used to murder nine black people in a church in Charleston, South Carolina, last month.

A federal background check should have flagged him, because Roof had been arrested on felony drug charges and had admitted to possessing a controlled substance. The FBI has three business days to check if gun buyers have criminal records or drug issues, but the time expired while the agency was trying to gain access to the police report on Roof.

Because of a loophole in the law, the gun store was able to sell Roof the weapon because the three-day waiting period ended without an FBI response. “We’re all sick this happened,” FBI director James B. Comey said.

Sick is the word for it. Thousands of ineligible applicants for gun ownership have bought weapons over the counter, thanks to that loophole. Big surprise — some of those weapons were later used in violent crimes, according to the Justice Department.

So, Dylann Roof, eccentric loner and budding white supremacist, took his 21st birthday money and got himself a Glock, with which he executed nine innocent persons.

But not before posing for a photo — the gun in one hand, a Confederate flag in the other. The image tells much about this pathetic, unraveled soul.

Even if the gun shop had refused to sell Roof that pistol, he could have gotten another. Black-market weapons are available on the streets of Charleston, as they are in all American cities.

For a troubled man, young or old, finding kinship for your hate is only a mouse-click away. Finding guns is just as easy. It’s the same sick story over and over.

And all we do is wait for the next one.

(Carl Hiaasen is a columnist for The Miami Herald. Readers may write to him at: 1 Herald Plaza, Miami, FL, 33132.)

Photo: Investigators stand outside a movie theater where a man shot and killed filmgoers in Lafayette, Louisiana on July 24, 2015. REUTERS/Lee Celano

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146 responses to “We Simply Sit And Wait For The Next Massacre”

  1. dtgraham says:

    What makes this an almost impossible situation to solve is that the gun control debate in America is far more about culture than about effective policy. There are arguments and beliefs among many Americans regarding gun ownership that simply can’t be refuted with reason and rational deliberation.

    Top of that list is the idea that gun ownership isn’t just constitutionally protected—it actually reflects the spirit of the American revolution. The founding fathers were supposedly so terrified of tyranny reasserting itself that they gave individuals and communities the leverage of self defence against a tyrannical government; so goes the argument.

    Many Americans like smaller government, and everyone likes their freedoms, and a shocking number of Americans believe that carrying a gun guarantees these. So even the simplest background checks or magazine limits are viewed with too much suspicion. I’ve read the arguments here from NM posters over and over.

    When the most reasonable gun control legislation supposedly turns the White House into Saddam Hussein or Nazi Germany, it makes advocacy for that legislation pretty tough. None of this makes any sense given even a moment’s thought but, then again, it doesn’t have to. This is a uniquely American argument and fear that I’m sure exists no where else; at least among the more advanced nations.

    • Karen Bille-Golden says:

      We’ve heard all the arguments by now. Guns don’t kill people, It’s people with guns who kill people. Meanwhile, don’t go to the movies, church, the grocery store, the bank, library, wherever, if you’re not packing a gun. . This seems to be the kind of society people choose to want to live in. Thankfully I’m old enough that I may still have the freedom and opportunity to die of natural causes….I can only hope the next ‘disturbed’ person isn’t in my vicinity.

      • dtgraham says:

        That may be all we’re left with, unless you want to become Wayne Lapierre’s “good guy with a gun” and be prepared for a shoot out at the OK Corral everywhere you go.

      • paulyz says:

        And don’t take a stroll with your Father to any popular attraction where criminal Illegals are protected.

        • CrankyToo says:

          You never pass up an opportunity to say something stupid, do you?

        • JPHALL says:

          Why are so afraid of illegals? You will most likely be killed by some mentally disturbed young White boy!

          • paulyz says:

            Wrong, more likely I or anyone, would be murdered by a black or Illegal trespasser. EVERYONE but you apparently, knows this. You are quite biased.

          • JPHALL says:

            You bigots are so funny. You probably live in an area of few minorities and yet spend your life afraid of the big Black / Brown bogeyman. What about your guns? Aren’t you prepared for the great race war all you bigots have talked about since the 1960’s? You and your bigoted type are so sad!
            Subject: Re: Comment on We Simply Sit And Wait For The Next Massacre

          • paulyz says:

            Actually I had lived in a very populated area, between Chicago & Milwaukee. I had seen conditions deteriorate gradually, then came to the conclussion that I didn’t want my children to be stuck there. I worked with minorities & were friends with some. Back then people got along much better, not like now. The schools became very bad, test scores dropped, traffic & crime, gangs, etc. became the new way of life. Why would I choose to live in an area like that? I got the hell out. But you Liberals won’t be happy until you caused these conditions throughout the entire Country, which you are good at.

          • JPHALL says:

            That is so funny. I have lived in Compton, Calif. since 1955. Unlike your life, mine in Compton has improved immensely. No more drive by shootings, lower murder and general crime rate (1950 levels), the schools winning national recognition. But we have few Republicans always trying to scare people for votes. In fact, the state has no statewide Republican officers and things, despite the drought, are improving more than other states. Image if we had the water where California would be.
            Subject: Re: Comment on We Simply Sit And Wait For The Next Massacre

          • paulyz says:

            The crime rate in Compton was very high. Though it has declined, it declined from a very high rate, & declined because of stricter law enforcement, not liberal policies.

          • JPHALL says:

            No it declined because the sheriff department actually did its job. No special favors. No, it is only a bunch of minorities. Do the crime get arrested and prosecuted not returned home. Like I have said before, the crime rate is not just down, it is 1950’s down. Must really chafe your hide for minorities to live a decent life despite your bias. Subject: Re: Comment on We Simply Sit And Wait For The Next Massacre

          • paulyz says:

            Several more American families murdered by your prized Illegals since last post FYI.

          • JPHALL says:

            So what? Multiple times more were killed by “legal” citizens. What is your point? Dead is dead.
            Subject: Re: Comment on We Simply Sit And Wait For The Next Massacre

      • DEFENDER88 says:

        If I had a “choice”, I would much prefer not to have to be concerned about the robbers, thugs, dope heads, and insane killers. But that is the “reality” of our society today.
        If I had a “choice”, I would choose to live in a society where the insane and robbers, thugs and dope heads are kept out of it.

        If there IS a disturbed person in your vicinity, you should hope there is also someone there carrying a concealed weapon.

        Or do you prefer to be shot like a fish in a barrel with no defense.

        It is something of a pain to carry concealed and do it right but better than shot like a fish or get the sh*t beaten out of you and robbed.

        • Karen Bille-Golden says:

          I know it would make you feel better if I could agree with you but I can’t. No, I won’t feel any safer even if everyone around me is carrying a concealed weapon. That thought frightens me more actually. It’s just not the kind of society I want to live in. It shouldn’t, and doesn’t, have to be that way.

          • DEFENDER88 says:

            You seem like nice folks who just want to live in peace – so do I.
            But for better or worse, it “is” that way now – the crazies, dopers, robbers are out there among us.
            Well maybe not where “you live”.
            Would it make you feel any better if you knew they(Conceal Gun Carrier) were highly trained in Defensive Pistol Shooting to almost Police level?
            ie Act normal, not “show” a gun and not going to shoot innocent people.
            Or are you just totally paranoid about guns period?

            Do what you want, but as long as you treat the mentally ill at home with anti-depressants these mass killings will continue unabated.
            Also if you want me to discard my gun, get the gangs, home invaders, thugs etc off the street.

            Don’t worry I will NOT “pull” my gun to defend “you” or anyone else. Only me and mine.
            And my church – My church – knowing my skills, “asked me” to overwatch services when our Police members declined since it does not pay.

            As long as they know how to use it safely, store it safely and don’t go out and shoot someone with it, what does it matter if everyone has a gun. My gun has “never” – gotten up out of its holster, walked out the door and hurt anyone.
            All of us may not be as safe as you are. I have been shot at 3 times in the mountains and me with no gun. Not going to let that happen again. Your “paranoia” has been my “reality”.

            AND – I refuse the let someone come in my house and do whatever they want with me/us.
            Ever hear of the Pettit murders in Conn? Look it up.

            And I wont go to a movie theater without one now either – we have been warned.
            I wont go in ANY Gun Free Kill Zone unarmed. Unless they can show me sufficient, trained, armed security.
            And I think that should be the law. Either provide sufficient armed security or allow “licensed” concealed carry.

            People say if everyone in the movie theater in Aurora( A Gun Free Zone – he specifically “sought out”) had been armed, more would have been hurt(Giffords actually said this yesterday on CNN) – WHAT?? – about 100 tot were there – 12 were killed and another 70 wounded! Couldn’t get a whole lot worse. But he might have been stopped before it got so God Awful terrible.

            And the Virginia Tech shooter went room to room to room shooting everyone since there was no-one else there with a gun to stop him. Killed 32, wounded 17. As soon as someone else showed up with a gun it stopped.
            As with most all the other killings.
            As soon as someone – “anyone” else shows them a gun, it stops – usually they suicide.

            The key is to make sure whoever is certified to “carry concealed” is trained to a specific, minimum uniform level – much like most all police are trained to a fairly uniform(nation wide) higher level.
            I am personally trained to a higher level than even Police since I help train Police(on a volunteer basis) in “Combat Pistol Shooting”.
            But not in “Policing”.

            My church – knowing my skills, “asked me” to overwatch services when our Police members declined since it does not pay.

            ps But I don’t ever “want” to have to shoot anyone.

            You probably think “I” am paranoid – Why would “I” be paranoid? – I carry a Gun for Gods Sake.
            I don’t have to be now. I am comfortable, relaxed and pretty secure.

          • Karen Bille-Golden says:

            And I’m sure you are level headed and well trained. The scenario I picture at a movie theatre is where everyone is armed and has pulled a weapon (most untrained, .unlike you)

          • DEFENDER88 says:

            1st Google or Wikepedia the – Pettit Murders in Conn.

            I have no problem with you not wanting to have a gun. And I sure as H*ll don’t ever “want” to have to shoot anyone.

            But I refuse to let the thugs, red necks, crazies etc just take over with no resistance.

            The problem I am having is with people who want to disarm “me” or limit my options when the thugs have no limits.

            ie Banning/Limiting Guns, Magazine Capacity etc just hurts me(honest owners), the thugs can still get them.

            I learned from experience – facing them with a gun of your own is something they DO understand and usually run scared from.

            I have had to do this more than once to scare the p*ss out of them, thus defusing the situation. They are usually a bunch of Chicken SH*TS when faced down with force by someone they know is serious and not going to put up with their s*it. These were all situations where calling the police was not an option(in the mountains).

            But I also refuse to be bullied, beaten, etc at my home or anywhere else for that matter.

            And I don’t plan to be shot like a fish in a barrel in a “Gun Free Zone”. I will not “start it” but will finish/stop it if I can – at least I will have a chance. More than can be said of the poor folks in the Aurora theater.

            As we have all learned the hard way, the reality is – Gun Free Zones are only Gun Free until someone shows up with a gun.

            Then they are Gun Free Killing Zones.

            I look like a little old man who would not hurt a fly. And that is true – normally.

            Unless the thugs show up – then they see something entirely different – kind of stuns them, they start moving away.

            I want them to “know” that I and a lot of other people like me are out there.

            Lastly – I would encourage you to at the least take some lessons in hand-to-hand defense.

            There are techniques that can be effective in saving yourself that don’t require a lot of strength or skill.

            Most are down dirty, street fighting methods – but if you are faced with thugs they don’t care if you are nice, give them money and say you don’t have anymore money, they will beat you down and kill you for $1 – they just don’t care.

            One small Tip for you unarmed guys – I don’t care if its a 300lb young thug, if your finger is 2in deep in his eyeball(gouging) he will think twice about continuing his attack. And there is a lot more available.

          • DEFENDER88 says:

            Here is what can happen

            Hawke Petit Murders

            Cheshire Conn Home Invasion and Murder by Hayes and Komisarjevsky

            The wife had already been raped and murdered.

            The young daughters were raped(Michaela was 11yo) then:

            The daughters, while tied to their beds, had both been doused with gasoline; each had her head covered with a pillowcase.[15] A fire was then ignited, and Hayes and Komisarjevsky fled the scene. Hayley and Michaela both died from smoke inhalation.[16]

      • DEFENDER88 says:

        Another tip on self defense.
        States of awareness.
        Don’t leave home, your car or a building without it.
        Unless you are at home – White will get you hurt or worse.
        Unless you are a home – “Always” operate in Code Yellow.
        Just generally be aware of things going on in your vicinity – guys lurking I dark places, someone looks out of place, etc.
        The Color Code System of Awareness

        So what is the color code system of awareness? Simply, it is 5 states of readiness. They are:

        White – unaware, not paying attention

        Yellow – attentive, but relaxed

        Orange – focus is directed, there is an immediate potential threat

        Red – there is a definitive threat

        Black – you are actively fighting

        So why do we need the colors? Because, when faced with a life threatening attack by a criminal, as a typical normal person, we are faced with three very difficult challenges. They are:

        Recognizing the presence of the predator in time;

        Realizing, internalizing and accepting that THAT MAN, RIGHT THERE is about to kill you for reasons you do not understand, if you do not stop him; and

        Overcoming your reluctance to do lethal violence to another fellow human being.

    • Leftout says:

      Your argument is absolute and the correct reason for militia/ gun ownership …to be have freedom from tyranny and oppression of government over bearance , as from the ” civil” overtaxing British of 1700s. A story : a woman from Romania by way of Australia came to me for a position after Romanian civil unrest . I asked her why did you not fight back . Her immediate answer … From a woman ” we did not have guns” . It is true today in many countries… Look around .

      • dtgraham says:

        Well, alright but then why is it that countries with much stricter gun control laws in Europe, Canada or Australia for example, still seem to be bastions of democracy and freedom? Haven’t heard about any dictator takeovers in France, England, Sweden, etc.., nor do I expect to. Do you?

        • Leftout says:

          Those countries have had time to homogenize and be somewhat content in their own kind, only recently have alien problems , Moslems emerged … Same thing. France has had shootings, Britain beheadings … Soldiers in broad daylight by the mentally ill, Moslems. Sweden and Japan , China are homogenous societies and allow few to contaminate it. People should be segregated to their own cultural neighborhoods . Do we travel to Japan to have French cuisine? Do we travel to Moslem countries to see sand and heat, no , we go to Miami And have great Cuban – Moslem free- pork sandwiches as well. Close aw the border to barbarians already .

          • dtgraham says:

            I’d argue with that but I’m not even sure what that was. I stand in awe my friend.

          • Leftout says:

            I got in my own way, sorry.

          • dtgraham says:

            Not a problem. We’ve all done that.

          • JPHALL says:

            Where do you get you information? None of those countries are homogenous. They all have immigrants from various parts of the world.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            I spent 30 years overseas, and my personal experiences are very different from yours. I saw large numbers of immigrants during the year I spent in England (1958-59). Most were from Commonwealth Caribbean Islands, India, and Pakistan. Bobbies walked around unarmed to enforce the law, and nobody feared for their safety.
            I spent 13 years in Spain, when Generalissimo Franco was in power, after the end of the Spanish civil war when both sides of the conflict were heavily armed and over 1 million people were killed. Totalitarianism prevailed throughout Franco’s tenure, but nobody was afraid to go out and party until the wee hours of the morning. Today, as guns are becoming increasingly available, violent crime is on the rise.
            I lived in Venezuela from 1946 to 1958. General Perez Jimenez was in power. The country was stable, violent crime was minimal, property was respected, and financial investment was plentiful. Today, when guns are readily available to whomever wishes to buy one, crime is rampant (among the highest in Latin America), an intellectual exodus is in progress, and nobody wants to visit or invest in that country.
            There are two sides to every story. The one I described is based on personal experiences, rather than the paranoia that influence the opinions of so many fellow Americans. It is true that guns, inanimate objects, don’t kill people, and that violent crime is carried out by people, but without the availability of lethal weapons criminals and the deranged would not be as successful as they are. We have a good chance to run away from someone wielding a knife or a 2×4, but not from someone carrying and firing a semi-automatic weapon.

          • DEFENDER88 says:

            Dom, I will take your word for foreign countries, but you may want to check on the actual “Crime Data” for this country.

            My sources – FBI, CDC, etc indicate the crime rate in the US has been falling and continues on that trend as of the last published data.

            While the number of Conceal Carry permit requests continues to rise.

            And the number of guns available and gun sales continue to rise.

            The rise in permits and gun sales is more fits-and-starts(ie spikes come after a mass murder) but still on a steady overall climb.

            Some claim there is a causal link, I am not sure of that and would be hard to prove but there it is.

            However “in point of fact” as permit rates climb, crime is on the decline.

            I cannot verify a linkage but cannot disprove either. My sense is, there may be some linkage with home entry burglaries decline ie burglars know more homeowners are armed.

            Of course “mass murders” are a different story.

            “I” did do a data study on mass murders compared to drug use (Psychotropic Drugs ie Anti-Depressants) and there was a very strong positive correlation with the rise in use and the rise in mass murders. Starting in the Mid-late 1970’s

            This also correlated with the change in Mental Health care from Institution care/treatment to home care/treatment.

            Again Starting in the mid-late 1970’s.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            The incidence of crime is influenced by many factors. Extreme poverty, a sense of persecution, education, job creation, advancement opportunities, and other such factors being among the most important.
            Guns are simply the tool of preference for those who want to commit violent crimes. Massacres are, indeed, not new in the USA, but I don’t recall them being as frequent as they are today.

          • Karen Bille-Golden says:

            It would seem the answers to some of the problems you’ve addressed could have non-violent solutions. Rise in gun permits is the result of a paranoia that is spreading like a cancer across our country, in my opinion, fueled by distrust and dislike of government. I don’t care how many sane people own guns, really. It bothers me that people feel owning a firearm is the answer.

          • David says:

            I also am concerned about the increase in mass murders and the increase in the use of psychotropic medication. I think there may be a correlation.

          • DEFENDER88 says:

            You can go to Wikepedia and see listings and details of most all the schools killings. You have to dig deeper in the story but virtually always there is a connection to a or multiples of a psychotropic drug they were taking. Our returning vets are treated with the same drugs for PTSD and vet suicide rates are at record and near crisis levels. Coincidence – I don’t think so.

          • Leftout says:

            Very attractive adventures, being part of history in the making, I concede to your experiences . I came to this country to exceed and assimilate, to give back after earning and not take, … Cultural thing. I see people coming to this great country and trying to subvert its original ideals. Everyone should be a human first not a member of a political group and help correct issues that affect us all, without creating divisive , fabricated issues amongst us to garner votes.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            The overwhelming majority of Mexican and Central American immigrants – legals or illegals – come here in search of a better life. They work too hard to spend time in subversive endeavors, and since those we call illegal aliens do not have the right to vote, they don’t really have a voice in policy making. There is simply no comparison between what is happening in France, for example, where Muslim immigrants are demanding practices that are consistent with Sharia law, with Mexican immigrants trying to preserve some of their traditions, such as celebrating Cinco de Mayo.

      • JPHALL says:

        So your argument is that guns guarantee freedom? Check out many Arab and South American countries where guns are abundant. Lots of freedom in Syria, Afganistan, Mexico and Columbia!

    • Dominick Vila says:

      For those who believe a well regulated militia means arming everyone so that each of us can defend ourselves from one another, rational thinking, common sense, and civilized behavior are tantamount to reckless appeasement and surrender of subliminal rights. The sad truth is that the more massacres that take place, and the more innocent people that are gunned down, the more determined those consumed by fear, prejudice, – and material greed – become to ensure they can defend themselves from everyone else.

  2. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    Better ask yourselves one question. What is the point in restricting dangerous chemicals and drugs if guns, just as lethal are also not restricted?

    The argument of the right Rambo wannabees is that their 2nd Amendment is wholly dependent on 5 words: The right to bear arms. Then, you review the entire 1st Amendment Section 8 and you see that the Founding Fathers clearly outlined the “militia” as mentioned in the 2nd Amendment the Jesse James Militia boys refuse to even acknowledge.

    Only the federal government calls up a militia, funds it and disciplines it. The Founding Fathers never ever intended a bunch of shaven headed, fist pumping narrow minded bullies to walk around in public armed with AK47s or other military style weapons.

    What these jerks try to prove is that they can intimidate the very people paying dearly for the freedom to be on public streets and in public places without NO fear of such intimidation.

    If you want the gun violence to stop, you cut off the head of the snake: Gun manufacturers making huge profits from manufacturing 2 million Saturday night specials they sell illegally up north and in big inner cities where they KNOW the population of minorities are highest.

    • 2ThinkN_Do2 says:

      Only you forgot the part about being to prevent the government, by having the right to bear those arms, from becoming a dictatorship.

      • Karen Bille-Golden says:

        Paranoid at all? Under your plan, with enough guns we can all be dictators.

        • Eleanore Whitaker says:

          Most gun nuts are paranoid…it’s why they love to arm themselves to the teeth. They will tell you it’s for protection. Then, shoot 11 school children they had to protect themselves from. They will say they need it to protect their families and then walk into a military recruiting station and take out innocent lives.

          These men are just pushing their weight around. They know exactly what they are doing…demanding 2nd Amendment Rights that were NEVER intended by the Founding Fathers.

          They know damn well more innocent lives will be taken out by one of their dicktators.

          • 2ThinkN_Do2 says:

            You’re so right Eleanore, NUTS, fortunately, most gun owners are not nuts. If they were, there wouldn’t be many people left, and school funding wouldn’t be an issue, as there wouldn’t be the need for them. More proof of how incorrect you are, among other things.

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        Wrong..You already have a bunch of bigoted, racist shaven headed, fist pumping, chest bloating punks out there armed like Rambo already playing dictator. Now, no one will feel safe in shopping malls, theaters or in any public place thanks to the Rambo bullies playing DICKtator.

        If you need a gun strapped to your butt so bad, you need professional mental help. Sorry, the only people who actually need to be armed live in the most rural and remote places..not on public streets with hundreds of passersby.

        • David says:

          Eleanore!!! I thought we had a talk about your fascination with the male sex organ. Please try and keep your your comments above base invective.

        • 2ThinkN_Do2 says:

          Sound like you’re talking about some members of the law enforcement community; the ones you probably think deserve to carry firearms. I don’t know any gun owners out there playing dictator. You wouldn’t know if I had a gun or not, unless I was in the wilderness, then I might open carry. I do agree though, if you have a gun strapped to your butt, you might need help; that’s a weird place to keep your gun . . . . .

    • David says:

      Eleanore – “Militia”, as defined at that time, meant every able-bodied man who could fight. It is not the 1st Amendment, Section 8. It is 1st ARTICLE, Section 8 which identifies powers given to the Congress. One of those powers is to call up the militia – the able bodied men. That power is not exclusive. So, States can call up the militia as well. But, whether it is the Federal government or a State, the militia should be familiar with the use of arms. That is ONE of the reasons why individual right to bear arms is important. You do remember what Thomas Jefferson said about the ‘Tree of Liberty’ don’t you?

      • Karen Bille-Golden says:

        I think “Militia” has been replaced by a well equipped and trained military whlch would defend any state in the ” Union” Is there some other motive you’re failing to mention?

    • idamag says:

      I can give you another description of the dirty harry rambo john wayne wannabes: I was driving behind a pickup with umteen bumper stickers all over it, touting the chip-on-the-shoulder gun totin ideology. As I pulled up even with him in the next lane this is what I saw: T-shirt many sizes too small. Baseball cap and it looked as though he had hair. Beard. Hair on his hands looked about 2 inches long. At long last he was able to trade his club for a gun and was about to defend his right to carry with angry bumper stickers.

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        I know what you mean. Suddenly, every middle aged hot shot is ramping up their hormones to Rambo level. In NJ, we get these show offs looking for attention in their Bully Boy pick up trucks, heads shaved silly to avoid emphasizing their growing baldness and with those angry white male expressions on their faces. They remind me of what their western compatriots do when they “ride the bulls” …tie off the bulls testicles to make them “buck,” so the boys can ride.

        Today’s males are the silliest bunch of big mouths to come down the pike. No class…just low lifes who walk around acting like their are the only founts of knowledge. This is why you see more cops punching and kicking women they are beginning to pull over for minor violations like a hanging license plate.

        These are boys who just never grew up and have a major hatred for women…ALL women including their mothers who dumped them off in Daycare like sacks of potatoes.

        Now those rotten little spuds are acting out in every way they can against those they consider their inferiors and weaker.

        What they needed was to be deprived of their favorite toys until they learned some class. Now, we have an entire generation of bullies aged 35 to 50, all vying for their 10 seconds of fame. No class and no brains.

  3. 2ThinkN_Do2 says:

    And sadly, it seems we are more concerned about the availability of the tool, than the cause(s) behind the depression. When we truly address the issue(s) behind the mental breakdown of society, there will be light at the end of the tunnel. First we must open our eyes, see beyond our limited selves and ideals and ask: what would drive a person to the point of taking another life (and often their own as well) and what can we as nation do to resolve this? Reminds me of the words from a song: “we’re living in a land of make believe and trying not to let it show”.

    • Karen Bille-Golden says:

      A definite moral breakdown in our society that even the words “under God” haven’t been able to address

      • Leftout says:

        It was a better world when “under God” was not placed “under wraps.” Religions survived and tyrannies did not. HUNs , Romans, etc…. Maybe some have addressed it for the rest of us.?

      • idamag says:

        The USMC keeps a list of I.Q. scores for their recruits and they say there has been a steady decline in intelligence since 1980. If we could address that problem it might solve the gun problems, too.

    • CrankyToo says:

      No. FIRST, we need to be “more concerned about the availability of the tool”, as you put it. That’s the low-hanging fruit. Once we’ve made the country safer by restricting access to weapons of mass death to citizens whose reliability and stability can be reasonably assured through vetting, THEN we can focus on those things that are driving us crazy (to wit, conservative domestic policies which are enslaving our people, and vicious right-wing propagandas which inspire so much hatred and discontent.) We need to do the easy stuff first. It’s a no-brainer.

      • Leftout says:

        There are less mentally ill and Moslems …,same thing, to watch than there are guns to round up.

        • CrankyToo says:

          Sorry, Squire, but I don’t speak Dumba$$. Maybe you can get Paulyz or David to translate for you. They’re better equipped to engage on a lower level.

          • Leftout says:

            Oh, you are a snit, no factual refutes, you lose.

          • CrankyToo says:

            Oh, woe is me! Boo hoo…

          • Leftout says:

            Is that why you are cranky and cry too? Children can not argue it seems. You can be fixed, I know it, it takes discipline and focus.

          • JPHALL says:

            You do not understand sarcasm do you?

          • Leftout says:

            I am a master of it
            And subtle humor

          • dtgraham says:

            You gotta admit that Leftout has a unique take on things. In other countries, anyone with any kind of emotional issues is apparently locked up permanently and their Muslims are much more devout and spend all of their time praying 5 times a day and beheading their wives. That’s why they don’t shoot the place up. Gee, I never thought of that. Sometimes we over think things. For the right, life is simple.

          • Leftout says:

            Yes you understand simplicity in the desert there is little to do except pray 5 x daily, attend to sex with wives and eat .,,, same thing sometimes . Mohamed had it right he kept the men cumming as it were and they were satisfied. Unfortunately I was
            Raised A Catholic so sex but not eating , came infrequently , and still does. I may convert to Islam , more sex ? no confessions and Virgins in Heaven, but not in Boston it seems.

          • CrankyToo says:

            And for the simple, life is right.

            But there must be something silly in your post because it got an up-vote from Leftout. Where did you go wrong?

          • dtgraham says:

            “For the simple, life is right.” Good one. That’s the third up-vote I got from Leftout and you just got one. Yikes.

            I love those guys in a way. Their attitude is, ‘keep your stinkin’ facts, I’m going with the truth.’ And they deliver their truth hard hitting and incomprehensibly.

          • CrankyToo says:

            Yeah, when Leftout starts agreeing with us, you have to wonder what’s up. Maybe it thinks it’s giving us the finger when it punches that little up arrow.

            On the plus side, a lot of these wingnutz will crawl away after the elections next year. (Of course, they’ll be back in time for Hillary’s inauguration.)

          • JPHALL says:

            I believe you overdid the sarcasm this time!

          • dtgraham says:

            When we’re starting to get consistent up-votes from conservatives, we may have to rethink this thing.

      • DEFENDER88 says:

        Add to your list(maybe at the top) psychotropic drugs now handed out like candy

        ALL the school shooters have been young white males 16-26 going on or coming off a psychotropic drug(primarily anti-depressants).

        We emptied the institutions many years ago in favor of treating the disturbed people at home. Now they are out among us.

        Our returning troops from war are also treated for PTSD the same way – that is why the suicide rate for returning troops has reached crisis levels.

        • jamesowens says:

          but the gop doesn’t consider mental illness a disease that should be treated by medcaid/ medicare and defunds the program

          • DEFENDER88 says:

            Another problem the poor families of these anti-depressant treated/troubled kids and are having to dealing with.

            They need to be removed from society until they can(as much as possible) be deamed non-suicidal/homicidal.

            But now they are mostly out there among us. As long as this goes on the mass murders will continue. Then there is the problem of returning vets treated with anti-depressants so they can go home and suicide(and the 2nd Ft Hood murders). I don’t have the answers but I know what a big part of the problem is. Its a start.

      • David says:

        You are so right! Those evil guns will go and shoot anybody if not watched carefully. The right wing is so bad. They want people to work for a living and they want people to follow the law when entering the country. Can you believe that?

      • leadvillexp says:

        The tool is not the problem. Just look back to Boston with a pressure cooker, Oklahoma with a fertilizer bomb, New York with a propane bomb that didn’t go off, even Columbine had propane canisters. Then we can add in knife attacks and beheading’s and the way to kill goes on and on. We could also add in drunk driving. Should we ban all tools? If guns are the cause than so are knives, cooking utensils, cars and fertilizer. Put the nuts back in the institutions.

        • JPHALL says:

          So explain why the European countries do not have this problem with non Moslem extremists?

          • leadvillexp says:

            They do. There have been several in the past. I don’t remember them all but one comes to mind. A school shooting in a small English or Scottish town by a man who was a member of the local hunting club. There were also some in Germany sometime back. We just don’t hear about the small shootings over drugs and gangs. We like to claim all the shootings here are done by nuts, but some are people that have extremist ties. I would call anyone that relates to the KKK or Nazis an extremist and yes they are a nut.

          • JPHALL says:

            Yes it does happen in Europe, but not with the frequency we have here or in the Middle East. Guess why?
            Subject: Re: Comment on We Simply Sit And Wait For The Next Massacre

          • leadvillexp says:

            It is a mental health issue. Guns don’t cause a person to kill. Today in the paper is an article about a Jewish man in Israel that attacked a gay pride parade and stabbed several people, also Jewish. The same man had stabbed several people before and was released from prison. Should we register knives or put mentally ill people in mental health facilities?

          • JPHALL says:

            What does that have to do with the rate and frequency of mass killings in Europe? That is what this discussion is about. By the way, why bring up an attack in Israel? I know, to try to confuse the issue.
            Subject: Re: Comment on We Simply Sit And Wait For The Next Massacre

          • leadvillexp says:

            My point was not to confuse the issue. The point is that guns are not the cause of the mass killings. It happens all over the world and is committed by different groups. They use many methods and weapons. If you banned all guns they would just switch methods much like Timothy MacVeigh.

          • JPHALL says:

            YOU ARE A JOKE. I understand your inability to wrap your mind around reality because of ideology. But the point remains the same. In Europe and other countries , the incidence of mass gun killings is a lot less and infrequent. And when it does happen, it is for ideology, not just because the shooter was a loser whose personal life was a disaster. Subject: Re: Comment on We Simply Sit And Wait For The Next Massacre

          • leadvillexp says:

            You can name call if you like but here are a few that were not ideological. Dunblane Scotland 1996 school 18 dead 15 injured, Hungerford England 1987 shooting spree 16 dead 15 injured, Cumbria England 12 dead 11 injured shooting spree, Erfurt Germany 2002 17 dead 7 injured, Cologne 1964 10 dead 22 injured, Winnenolen 2009 16 dead 9 injured, France Midipyrenees 2012 7 dead school. I could go on to list many more but it would take to long. As for ideological killing how about the bombing in London 52 dead 700 injured. These countries have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world. The reality is gun laws won’t help. Killers don’t obey the law, crazy or sane. These are people killing people and it is not just in the United States.

          • JPHALL says:

            Nice list. It spans over 40 years from 1964. You could come up with a much larger list in the US spanning less than 10 years. Try again, you proved my point. We have more mass murders in less time. Subject: Re: Comment on We Simply Sit And Wait For The Next Massacre

        • dpaano says:

          IMHO, the problem began with more violence being shown on and in our media, not to exempt “war games” on videos and game stations. We are inundated with violence every single day….even the morning news shows talk more about a killing here, a crime there, and it goes on and on. It gets to the point where killing someone just isn’t a problem for some young men because they don’t realize that murder isn’t a video game…it’s for real and for ever! The person doesn’t just “pop” back up when you restart the game. There’s just been too much violence in our media for the past 30 years or so, and it’s showing up in the world around us.

    • DEFENDER88 says:

      Well, here is a clue – ALL the school shooters have been young white males 16-26 going on or coming off a psychotropic drug(primarily anti-depressants).

      We emptied the institutions many years ago in favor of treating the disturbed at home. Now they are out among us.

      Our returning troops from war are also treated for PTSD the same way – that is why the suicide rate for returning troops has reached crisis levels.

  4. Leftout says:

    All mass shootings thus far have been committed by mentally ill people or Moslems… Same thing. We have to allow free information to flow to authorities on these miscreants , even if they are family members..,,so that regulatory agencies can act and restrict accordingly. It is not the weapon …,workplace violence argument as in the case of soldier in England being beheaded on an open street by a
    Moslem w a machete and a woman beheaded at a mall in Oklahoma , and a young male college student in NJ , during the past year all were attributed to mentally ill or Moslem workplace attitudes …, same thing . It is time to round them up and have them placed in restricted environments….. Perhaps Long Island can be used as an American Gitmo to isolate these mentally ill and Moslems…, same thing. Enough political correctness….or more incidents will occur .

    • dtgraham says:

      Even if that were true, every country has it’s share of mentally ill people and Muslims. How come they’re not doing this elsewhere?

      • paulyz says:

        The point is (we could do something about screening people) suceptable to these types of crimes, just as (we could do something) about all the Illegals entering our Country, many criminal, or previously deported Illegals, that would not be here in the 1st. place to even commit these crimes.

        • dtgraham says:

          Sounds like you’re talking about timely and strictly enforced background checks on gun purchases. I’m surprised.

          • paulyz says:

            There are background checks but not really keeping mentally ill people from getting help, but are left to roam free because of Liberal policies. Where there is strict gun control like in Chicago, there is high rates of violence. It isn’t the law-abiding that need gun control, nobody wants to see the mentally unstable, violent, or criminal element have guns, but they do even with gun control. The problem isn’t our 2nd. Amendment rights, but the breakdown of society from Liberal social policies.

      • Leftout says:

        It is true, the Mentally ill in other countries are kept secure from the public and cared for – restricted. The percentage of Moslems are low and busy praying 5 times a day, keeps them out of mischief and attending to the needs of wives, you would think that this would be enough for them . …. Cabin fever may get to these at times.

      • idamag says:

        We have some of the most violent people there are.

      • DEFENDER88 says:

        Perhaps they(other countries) are actually treating their mentally ill, keeping them out of society(if needed), instead of handing out anti-depressants to them and send them home with a “come back for more anytime”. Do a little digging and you will find that “ALL” the school shooters were associated with anti-depressant use. And many if not most all the others were also. That includes given to our returning troops for PTSD, that is why suicide rates there are at record levels.

        The designer drug anti-depressants came on the scene about the time we emptied the institutions in favor of treating the mentally ill at home, late 1970’s. This is what we got – mass murder.

      • Leftout says:

        They may actually know better or are waiting for the signal to commit workplace violence .
        Every country with a Moslem Population has a problem. These people even hate themselves , worse than Christians .

    • Darsan54 says:

      “All mass shootings thus far have been committed by mentally ill people or Moslems… Same thing.”

      No. They are not. Call this the T-Rump effect.

      • Leftout says:

        Can you name an incident committed by a non mentally challenged person

        • Daniel Jones says:

          I can name the whole category–cold blooded murder.

          However, I think he was complaining about your saying all Muslims are mentally ill.

      • Leftout says:

        Yes they are. Not being able to refute your murderous tenants of religious Islamic doctrine is a severe case of delusion , inability to reason . That is why Moslems are so gullible , their mental reasoning is limited by a fear of no virgins in the afterlife.

    • jamesowens says:

      or white extremists as in church bombings of children–or hanging of blacks by klan members- or white supremacists in texas towers- or has your conservaturd thinking forgot history

      • Leftout says:

        Ah, Texas towers , I remember that as my first mass shooting awareness, KKK hangings were before my time , but church bombongs are still here it seems . So your point is ? These are certainly mentally challenged people and should be shot if found doing such deeds or perhaps made to attend sensitivity classes on white privilege , which is worse.

        • jamesowens says:

          that is the problem conservatives don’t think of the their slaughters as such as it is considered a WHITE PRIVELEGE
          their

          • Leftout says:

            Whities are disturbed by mass shootings just as Negroes. ” White Privilege” is a term contrived by divisive people to create animosity between groups for political gain. Whites do not think of themselves as privileged, nor do Blacks think of themselves as deserving more than others , since we all have equal opportunities for achieving what we set for. ATTITIUDE MATTERS !!!! I’ve lived in the heart of the Bronx, Newark, all the hot spots , and have never come across these divisive terms amongst friend of either color until recently. It is a political fabrication to create tension between peoples, a la Al Sharpton and friends including the President.

          • jamesowens says:

            so you don’t believe in the klan or white supremacists- you never hear of the mouthpiece for the NRA ted nugent- or the mke huckabes racist rants- what world you hiding in- faux noise

          • Leftout says:

            There Black, White, Asian, especially Moslem supremisists. These are mentally delusional small groups ,.except for Moslems, who are terminally insane. They all should be placed in the Sahara desert and let them fight it out…..a great reality TV series. These idiots are small in number and should be rounded up, isolated, and made to live with each other to the finish. We all know who they are and where they congregate, it should be an easy task to attract them into one place and let them exterminate themselves.
            No, I have not heard any racist remarks from the persons you mentioned except from the groups I listed. Do you have any examples, so that I can fairly assess your question.

          • jamesowens says:

            duh read my post those groups are real or as a conservative are you ignoring history as well as reality

          • Leftout says:

            Of course we all know the history of KKK etc and they are real, never said otherwise. butt the NRA and Huckabee certainly are not racist, show proof to the contrary .

          • jamesowens says:

            OH now you remember the klan LOL again with selective memory LOL read a paper Huckabee made front page for a week

          • Leftout says:

            You must not read well, I never said there was no KLAN, I do read the papers and most channels CNN, MSNBC ? . I have never seen a racist statement from Huckabee or the NRA. Evidently you did not find have ANY such statements to bring to your own discussion. Are you Al Sharpton ? You are blinded by your own hatreds, come on out with it!

          • jamesowens says:

            ignoring the facts does not change them-

          • Leftout says:

            You have yet to show any proof of the NRA ‘ Huckabee being racist !!
            YOU BROUGHT UP THE TOPIC, now you can not back up your claims , seems you should work for Obama.

          • jamesowens says:

            to lazy to read the paper- you re the one who posted your lies and you were called out and proven wrong – you justify your original lies I have shown mine. if you hate them so much join the marines and go fight I already did my time defending you racist hypocrits

          • Leftout says:

            I have read and now , You have no credibility , making statements without backing it up . It’s like me calling Obama a liar and not backing it up. I gave you a chance but you lost.

          • dpaano says:

            Where do you get your information? How do you justify that all Muslim’s are terminally insane? Are you kidding? Maybe we need to find a “special” island for your type of personality….let you fight it out amongst yourselves…..what an idiot!

          • Leftout says:

            Let me see , what other religion converts people or behwads them. This is not sane, do you not agree?

          • dpaano says:

            Muslims are a group of people, NOT a religion. And, just because some of them, like ISIS, are tyrannical doesn’t mean they ALL are… not all Germans are or were Nazis either, for example. You, sir, are a racist!

          • Leftout says:

            Did you check what is happening in France as we speak, CNN Moslem bastards doing their mischief.
            Workplace violence I guess.

    • dpaano says:

      You’re kidding, right? You want to round them up and put them in “camps” much like Hitler did with the Jews? You need to be put in a camp yourself…..see how it goes for you.

      • Leftout says:

        Long Island is not a camp, it would be very comfortable and they can be kept an eye on. A desert environment would be more In tune with their home environment , perhaps a reservation in New Mexico would be an alternative . It would isolate their head cutting and penchant for mischief to themselves

  5. fortunev says:

    I believe this propensity for deadly violence is embedded in the country’s psyche with roots in its murderous beginning. The US history of conquest that begins at its first inception with the arrival of Europeans was based on theft of land and the murder of the indigenous folk who inhabited the Americas. It was a blatant unapologetic expropriation of identity and property. There were of course plenty of massacres to go around in the other American countries by Europeans. But in the northamerican US it seems to have taken on a new racial menace that has grown as the population has expanded to incorporate ethnic groups from around the world. The US is less and less an ethnically homogeneous community. One can only guess how it will end. Unreasoning deadly world-wide violence seems to be the fate of humankind.

    • David says:

      “Theft and murder of the indigenous folk…”? Please! Waaaaaaaa!!!! They were so cruel!!!!! Clearly, those Europeans should have underwent sensitivity training!

      • fortunev says:

        Something you clearly lack. Also an absence of a thinking brain.

        • David says:

          Really? But your fine intelligence transposes modern culture’s mores to people who lived over 500 years ago. Hmmm…wonder who has s–t for brains? Have a blessed day.

          • fortunev says:

            Your shyt for brains have clearly not evolved from the time of your first cousins the neanderthals.

          • David says:

            Apparently evolved enough to formulate an argument you can’t refute! Have a blessed day!

          • fortunev says:

            Oooo. It. Has. Returned. The creature has been provoked. What else can It do. Perhaps wriggle its prehensile finger up its ar$e and tickle its throat to cough up more turds of wisdom.

          • David says:

            Prehensile? You mean a finger capable of grasping and holding on to something? Well, all of my fingers fit that description. Which one were you referring to? Instead of vile invective, can you not offer a cogent reply to the observation I made?

    • paulyz says:

      You forgot to mention how our European ancestors were constantly attacked by barbarian tribes like Genghis Khan until we overcame them & developed civiluzed societies, that they even had established before these barbaric hoards. Seems like most of the world (otger than Western Society) are the ones with poverty, starvation, 3rd. World conditions, dictatorial rule. Why do you think so many want to come here or to Europe, NOT Africa, South America, or Mexico! Seems like the only ones that don’t like it here are you Liberals.

      • fortunev says:

        Not everyone wants to migrate to the US. You are deluded if you think so.

        • paulyz says:

          Maybe not “everyone”, but hundreds of Millions do, as well as over 50% of Mexico. But Liberals always berate our Country, maybe they would be happy elsewhere, Adios.

      • jamesowens says:

        so you advocate going back to those times -when it happens to you im sure you will cry that the gov didn’t do enough

  6. idamag says:

    Abduleez’s mind was sick before he looked into radical Islam. It is like Ted Bundy’s lawyer tried to get him a lightr sentence because they found some soda-machistic porn among his things. We seek out those things that interest us. He wanted to kill so he sought out violence. As a young wife, I read romance magazines and housekeeping magazines. I went to parenting magazines, golfing magazines and travel magazines. His seeking the violent organizations fit his personality defects.

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