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Another Mass Shooting, Another Round Of Denial

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Another Mass Shooting, Another Round Of Denial

People light candles during a vigil in memory of the victims of the gay nightclub mass shooting in Orlando, at St Anne's church in the Soho district of London, June 13, 2016. REUTERS/Dylan Martinez

I don’t care whether the evil maniac who slaughtered at least 49 people in an Orlando gay bar was a Muslim or a Christian, a Democrat or a Republican, a bigot or a terrorist.

I don’t care whether you call what he did — the worst mass shooting in American history — a terror attack or an act of radical Islamic terrorism or a massacre or a hate crime.

What I care about is this: Without a legally purchased military-style rifle, he would’ve just been a guy standing in a bar.

Are there lame excuses that can be used to argue that point? Absolutely. How about these:

“You’re just trying to punish law-abiding gun owners.”

“If he didn’t have a gun he would’ve had a knife or a bomb.”

Or this chestnut: “If everyone in the bar was armed, fewer people would’ve died.”

Blah. Blah. Blah. I won’t even entertain responses to those gripes, because they’re either whiny, defeatist or predicated on all Americans toting firearms 24/7.

Every time there’s a mass shooting in this country — and it’s getting to be a bit too frequent, wouldn’t you say? — one group of Americans points out that the common denominator in these tragedies is the device that sends the bullets into people’s bodies and another group clutches their pocket Constitutions to their chests and cries, “Tyranny!”

One group says, “Hey, maybe if we didn’t let people on the terrorist watch list buy guns, that might help,” and the other group says, “We can’t do that because someone accidentally on the terrorist watch list might be denied their precious right to a gun.”

That’s literally what happened one day after 14 people were killed in San Bernardino, Calif., by a self-radicalized Muslim couple using legally purchased AR-15 assault rifles. Senate Republicans rejected a bill that would have stopped suspected terrorists from legally buying guns.

The Orlando shooter, who also used an AR-15, had been on the FBI’s radar since 2013. And he legally bought a gun, without which he would’ve had a much harder time murdering more than four dozen human beings and injuring dozens more.

Could he have still done it? Sure. But we made it easy for him. We always make it easy, because making it hard might infringe on someone’s right to buy a cool new gun.

But wait, the real problem is Muslims, right? Tell that to the white guy from Indiana, James Wesley Howell, who was arrested Sunday in California with a cache of weapons, ammunition and explosive-making materials in his car.

Tell that to the people at Virginia Tech who still recall how Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people in 2007.

Tell that to the families of the 26 people — 20 children and six adults — gunned down by Adam Lanza at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012.

Be like presumptive GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump and insist that the problem we’re dealing with here centers entirely around Muslims.

Treat this most recent tragedy, which involved an American-born Muslim who police say pledged allegiance to the Islamic State before the shooting, in an almost celebratory fashion the way Trump did as he tweeted, “Appreciate the congrats for being right on radical Islamic terrorism” and “I called it.”

But then remember that Trump’s proposed ban on Muslim people entering the country would’ve done nothing to stop Sunday’s shooting. The shooter was born here, as much a citizen as any one of us.

So unless Trump’s actual proposal is to round up every Muslim in the country — thus making America a lot less like America — then he’s spouting nonsense.

I am sick, beyond belief, of politicians in the pocket of the National Rifle Association talking “American exceptionalism” out one side of their mouths and then saying, “What can we do? Bad guys will always get guns” out the other.

This country is great. This country is powerful, and smart. We can break this insane cycle.

But we have to try. And right now, trying is denounced as an attack on liberty. Blame is directed at everything except the ease with which guns are purchased, something even our enemies have taken note of as they plot to do us harm from within.

An exceptional America does more than divide up and yell. An exceptional America fixes this.

We are not, right now, exceptional. Not at all.

You can say we’re at war with radical Islamic terrorism until you’re blue in the face. But who we’re really at war with, I’m afraid, is ourselves.

(Rex Huppke is a columnist for the Chicago Tribune and a noted hypocrisy enthusiast. You can email him at rhuppke@tribune.com or follow him on Twitter at @RexHuppke.)

(c)2016 Tribune Content Agency, LLC

Photo: People light candles during a vigil in memory of the victims of the gay nightclub mass shooting in Orlando, at St Anne’s church in the Soho district of London, June 13, 2016. REUTERS/Dylan Martinez



  1. Dominick Vila June 14, 2016

    Logic has no appeal to those who support our right to kill. Indeed, had effective gun control regulation been in effect, Omar Mateen would not have been able to buy an AR-15 and a handgun. Yes, he could have attacked people wielding a knife or a 2/4, but the number of casualties may have been in the low single digits instead of 49 and counting. I think it is important to point out that an armed police officer was in the bar when this tragedy occurred. He could not stop it, for the same reason other armed folks have been unable to stop other massacres. Instead of diversions and excuses, we must come to terms with whether or not massacres like the ones we experience so often are acceptable to us, presumably to preserve the right or ability to defend ourselves against mysterious tyrannical threats, and the crazies whose right to buy a gun we so desperately protect.

    Yes, Omar Mateen was a Muslim. Yes, he was homophobic, Yes, he was radicalized, in spite of his American birth and upbringing, but he would not have been able to do what he did had he not have easy access to the instruments of destruction he so easily acquired.
    There are many facets of this tragedy that must be addressed and solved, if our goal is to avoid recurrences. Effective and enforceable gun control is one of them.

    1. 788eddie June 14, 2016

      Thank you, Dominick, for reminding us of our early “domestic terrorism.”

    2. Box June 14, 2016

      Laws in effect? What laws? You mean the 1994 “assault gun ban” which stopped no criminal? You mean the 1968 Gun Control Act which stopped no criminal? You mean the extensive background checks going on now in the country which vet everybody? Which laws? If anything, and its talked about mostly in California which has nearly the toughest laws, the existing laws are not being enforced. So is that what you mean, the lack of enforcement of existing laws? Or do you mean the UCLA shooting which is in a Gun Free Zone?

      And a style of rifle? A STYLE? Ok why are you not driving a car wtih 30hp? You dont NEED that 700hp Hellcat yet there it is in your driveway. Cars kill plenty of plenty of people but you never call for a ban or even, i love this, limitation on HP! And your hellcat is all black….it certainly looks evil and that style offends me, too. Its scary and shouldnt be on the road to scare people. But you call it just a car, your preference, your desire, your right! Want someone to give up their style, give up yours.

      1. Karen June 14, 2016

        Surely you realize there are rules and regulations governing the use of an automobile no matter the HP. Continue on in your denial of reality.

        1. AgLander June 14, 2016

          Denial…..whose really in denial here? Find a thug and you find the problem. Find a gun and you simply find a gun. The 2nd amendment is not a point of debate. If you don’t agree with it and can’t live with it, move to another place where you will discover that guns were not really the problem but the hate in a man’s heart which will always find a way to be expressed in harming others.

          1. Karen June 14, 2016

            I don’t deny any of your statements. You still don’t offer an answer to that hatred and the easy access to implements for expressing it.

          2. AgLander June 14, 2016

            Yes I did……you want to cure violence by shackling everyone’s rights. The answer is enforcing gun laws already in place against those who commit crimes using a firearm but unfortunately our legal system is infested with liberal judges who are not enforcing those laws. And you tell me what YOUR answer is in controlling the hate in a man’s heart which no amount of gun bans will solve.

          3. jmprint June 14, 2016

            At the expense of keeping America safe, he11 yea, in a NY minute.

      2. Dominick Vila June 14, 2016

        Laws alone will not fix this problem. The most difficult challenge is to change the culture of violence that is inclined to take the law into their own hands, and solve differences using violent means rather than civil dialogue.
        Effective and enforceable gun control regulation is a first step. The first step to take is to ban assault rifles, semi-automatic weapons, and body armor. We have a highly trained and effective armed forces capable of defending the homeland. We don’t need every Tom, Dick, and Harry to run around with an AR-15 or AK47 playing Rambo.
        Honestly, I don’t expect anything meaningful will happen after this tragedy. Not even regulation singling out suspects of terrorism, but doing nothing, not even suggesting potential solutions, is not an option is the face of the slaughter we see every single day in every city in America.
        BTW, my hot rod is a 4-cylinder Honda CR-V.

        1. AgLander June 14, 2016

          Your “solutions” are so off target, pie in the sky simplistic and non starters.

          1. Dominick Vila June 14, 2016

            Defending laws that allow a domestic abuser, a homophobic moron, and a man investigated twice by the FBI for potential links to terrorism, to buy an AR-15 and high capacity magazines, is the kind of illogical thinking that contributes to tragedies like this, and the daily incidents of gun violence in every city in America.

          2. AgLander June 14, 2016

            A convicted domestic abuser would already be prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. There are no laws prohibiting “homophobic morons” from possessing anything because I’m sure you can understand the difficulty in determining who and where the homophobic morons are unless they are carrying a sign that reads “I’m a homophobic moron”. I’m sure your intentions are sincere, but you strike me as very naïve.

          3. Karen June 14, 2016

            And you strike me as being single minded, unable to examine your convictions from anyone else’s point of view. That is the beginning of the hatred of which you speak. Too many people feeling they are not heard or understood.

          4. AgLander June 14, 2016

            Heal thyself!

          5. jmprint June 14, 2016

            Yes, fake pastor lander, do preach!

          6. AgLander June 14, 2016

            I thought I saw you sitting in the back pew…..please, move forward!

          7. jmprint June 14, 2016

            No, I’m the one that saw you pinch another man’s wife on the butt, remember I gave you that look. That’s why I like to seat in the back. SO I can see all your nasty deeds.

          8. jmprint June 14, 2016

            “homophobic moron” ALERT, ALERT!

          9. AgLander June 14, 2016

            You’d be more effective simply blowing spit bubbles…..at least we’d all understand what the heck you are trying to do!

          10. jmprint June 14, 2016

            Just copying you, so if the bubble fit blow on it.

          11. dtgraham June 14, 2016

            There are also no laws prohibiting a person from purchasing a gun, who has been put on a terrorist watchlist by the FBI . Do you think there should be a law prohibiting that?

          12. AgLander June 14, 2016

            Our legal system requires “probable cause”……and since there was no probable cause the FBI could not legally take any action against this guy. The FBI watch list is a joke….it contains so many names on there by mistake that it would be pure anarchy to use that exclusively for the intentions you suggest.

          13. dtgraham June 14, 2016

            The answer is to make sure that there’s a good process in place to easily and successfully challenge their inclusion on the list if a mistake has been made. That seems to me to be the answer, and something that the Republican Congress should spend it’s time working on, instead of simply allowing those on terrorist watchlists to buy AR-15’s.

            At present, they can’t fly but they can buy a machine gun. That’s because there isn’t a powerful NPA lobby (National Plane Association) that owns the Republican party. Ridiculous.

          14. Otto T. Goat June 14, 2016

            Hillary is being investigated by the FBI, and you support her.

          15. jmprint June 14, 2016

            Dumb people like you can never understand logic.

    3. AgLander June 14, 2016

      Your deductions of logic would flunk you out of the lowest level logic course taught.

      1. Insinnergy June 15, 2016

        Content free and personal as usual.
        Have a hug, sad troll.

    4. Otto T. Goat June 14, 2016

      Wounded Knee happened because the US government was taking the Sioux’s guns away.

  2. I of John June 14, 2016

    spot on

  3. FT66 June 14, 2016

    Trump is a very dangerous individual. He wants to ban muslims entering the country, what about muslim countries deciding all christians not to show up in their countries. What kind of the world we will be living in? If that is not madness, I don’t know what it is. Moreover, in case of sickness, you go straight away and tackle the place where the disease is, you don’t circle around while meandering and waste time, otherwise you will end up dead. In this case the disease is “guns”. Without taking any action how to handle them, who must obtain them, what kind of guns one must have for own protection, am afraid the guns we think we love so much, will eliminate many if not us all in a matter of a moment.

  4. Box June 14, 2016

    The author chides the NRA as the focalpoint and backbone of all the bad in guns but how many attacks and shootings of a nature like this have been carried out by NRA members? Could it be….ZERO? How many? Tell us!

    1. Karen June 14, 2016

      I was amazed to learn just how small a percentage of gun owners actually belong to the NRA. It’s noteworthy the power they wield over all gun owners many of whom do not oppose stricter regulation. Are you a member?

      1. AgLander June 14, 2016

        Do you want to join?

        1. jmprint June 14, 2016

          Been a member, seen the brain washing propaganda, full of lies, only gullible people as yourself can stomach. The NRA has owned the republican party since before Bush. You are owned.

          1. AgLander June 14, 2016

            You’re not NRA material. You’re the type that joins the Squirt Gun Association.

          2. jmprint June 14, 2016

            You know nothing, just like your orange face king dip.

    2. johninPCFL June 14, 2016

      50 killed? Just another day in America. More than that are killed on average every day. 12000 per year by murder, 15000 per year by suicide. How many murders and suicides involve NRA members? Maybe LaPierre knows.

  5. 2ThinkN_Do2 June 14, 2016

    Another article blaming the inanimate object for what is a problem with society; why is it so difficult for humanity to own up to the truth. Why must we continue to pretend that the problem is something other than human beings and the inability to coexist? Clearly the shooter was deeply disturbed by the actions of some who believe what they were doing is nothing other than a routine act of nature. Maybe our Free & Easy society isn’t exactly bringing the varying beliefs of people closer together? The wisdom of mankind may not be as brilliant as that of nature. Mankind refuses to accept life on life terms; we think it can be altered to our desire. While some alterations mankind enacts have little consequences to society overall, some create life threatening circumstances, to the extent of global destruction. In our pursuit of Greatness aka Selfishness, we fail to accept some of the realities that cannot and will not be altered to our desire. Some things are not meant to be, no matter how much one may think it should be. The issue(s) responsible for actions such as Orlando, Sandy Hook, are much bigger than puny little firearms and no amount of regulation will prevent those actions.

  6. AgLander June 14, 2016

    It sure isn’t helping that this country is being led by Obama and his Junior Varsity in the war against radical Islam. Heck, Junior Varsity Obama can’t even say the words “radical Islam”. Maybe he thinks if he avoids saying it the monsters will go away. He’s the worst person we could possibly have had in a position of leadership at such a critical juncture in world events. We have no president right now. We simply have a disturbed person frozen in inaction and whittling away his time by checking on the status of whose using whose bathrooms.

    1. jmprint June 14, 2016

      President Obama is doing a find job, you are an orange orangutan follower. You are swallowing what the orange sloth spews out of his mouth. Obama can say those words, he ELECTS NOT TO. You think you know what his motivations are and if you make thing up people will believe you, it’s the same old record you have been playing since 2008, we have a darn good president, will go down in history as one of the best accomplished leaders. The disturbed person you are speaking of is an orange orangutan from New York, born of an immigrant mother. The bathroom laws passed by the republican party, are the reason for the bathroom policing, but you don’t pay attention.

      1. AgLander June 14, 2016

        Are you currently on any medications? If so, I think you may be having adverse side effects that are causing thundering and severe indignation, even though you don’t seem to be able to define that indignation in a coherent, organized way. Also, do you live near a zoo and once fell in the orangutan exhibit?

        1. jmprint June 14, 2016

          I find it funny that your diarrhea of the mouth and comatose hasn’t been fixed yet, with all the drugs you take. Maybe you should just use your guns on yourself and do America a favor of non existence.

          1. AgLander June 14, 2016

            Anger control alert!

          2. jmprint June 14, 2016

            A$$hole on the loose Aglander needs to be restrained, before more of the orangutan spews and make America Orange.

          3. AgLander June 14, 2016

            You are obsessed with orangutans……You never answered my question about if it was due to you falling in their cage during a visit to the zoo.

          4. jmprint June 14, 2016

            It’s from having to deal with idiots like you who will vote for a racist orange orangutan, that’s what he looks like, look at his lips they move the same.

          5. AgLander June 14, 2016

            I think the zoo theory is the more plausible explanation. The good news is that you survived. It didn’t harm you….maybe it thought it was looking at one of its own species!

          6. jmprint June 14, 2016

            That’s because you can’t understand logic. You keep proving it.

          7. AgLander June 14, 2016

            The next logic course you take will be your first!

          8. jmprint June 14, 2016

            yada, yada, yada.

          9. dpaano June 30, 2016

            Again, why in hell do we keep responding to this troll? If we just ignore his idiotic rants, he might choose to go away (we can ALWAYS hope)!!!

        2. Insinnergy June 14, 2016

          His reply makes more sense than a sad little troll, sitting constantly on this site just to get attention.
          Awww… do you need a friend?

    2. Insinnergy June 14, 2016

      Yeah because the names you call people totally matter.
      You must be loving the Donald.

    3. dpaano June 30, 2016

      And you actually think that if President Obama used the words “radial Islam,” that would solve the problem? What an idiot!!! Whatever it’s called, it doesn’t matter. I don’t know why you RW trolls can’t get that out of your little pea brains!!!

      1. Daniel Wright June 30, 2016

        You were a military officer??? You must have been a nurse,you obviously got no combat training. Who said that the words “radical Islamic terrorism” were magic? You’re the idiot for following a president who won’t even identify the enemy that has been at war with us since the beginning of the republic. If Obama were the president in 1941 half of the countries in world would have swastikas on their flags and the other half would have rising suns. “Know your enemy” Sun Tsu. You and Obama should read “The art of war”. It isn’t That long.

      2. AgLander June 30, 2016

        Your conflating the correct identification of the enemy with the ensuing strategy and tactics to be followed in confronting them. If you can’t identify them, you really have no business moving on to the strategy faze. I would think someone of average intelligence could understand such a simple concept but maybe your Mensa claim is just that…..a claim.

      3. AgLander June 30, 2016

        Maude: You are conflating the act of correctly identifying the enemy with the act of setting strategy and then tactical measures to confront the threat. If you can’t even identify the enemy, it is useless to move on to the strategy/tactic phase. A person of average intelligence would have little problem understanding such a basic concept. Perhaps Mensa needs to review your qualifications, if indeed you are who you claim?

  7. Box June 14, 2016

    The article is interesting in that there is no proposal to go after someone who committed a crime, no proposal to force the enforcement of present laws and rules. Why is that? As to existing laws, have any of you ever explored them? II think it was said there are 12,000 pages of IRS tax laws. I think gun laws are more. There are so many laws and hoops and rules you would go blind and mad trying to read them all or understand them, not only federal laws but 50 states of laws too. Dont talk about laws and controls, its already there!! Go look! But where is the enforcement? WHERE?

    There is mention of a GOP block against the refusal to sell a gun to a terrorist or would-be terrorist. But the article doesnt say why the GOP would do that. The article fails to mention that the laws of the land apply to ALL, not some. Your neighbors rights and privileges are the same as yours. The GOP in a 2nd Am fight is deliberately blind because fair laws shouldnt look at your color, where you live, your job, your fetishes, your height, what you like to eat or dont like. Justice should be blind. If you take a citizens gun, first because of his politics, then his color, then his age, then his domicile, then whether or not he takes aspirin for headaches, then you create a caste system of classes and then the laws are not in favor of you AND your neighbor but you OR your neighbor. Is that what you people want, a class system more pronounced than exists already? What kind of country is that? But, you take that right and you abuse it and break it, ok you are going down. Correct! In Europe, with its riotous problems now, the government goes after the criminals, not the citizen’s rights. And thats how USA has operated for 200+ years and I hope for the next thousand.

    In America we chase the bad guy, not the good guy. Every western movie said it as well: The bad guy comes into town, robs the bank and kills everyone. The sheriff doesnt call for a gun ban, he calls for a posse to go get the bad guy. Cmon, wake up again, thats who we are. Cmon, remember!

    What I think about guns is this. 1) Remove all laws. 2) Everyone should have a gun, as is required in Switzerland, for example. And extensive training. 3) But commit a crime of any kind, type or nature with a gun, its immediate penalty of death. Not death row with 40 years of appeals but immediate death upon arrest.

    The founders had two things in mind in the creation of the 2nd Amendment–Use against a government which failed the people in the rights given by the people to the government through the Constitution; use by the government in war by the formation of government-ordered militias. Everyone had a gun and there was an order and system about it. And I’m all for it.

    This one-minute video explains the refinement of that thinking. We should all be Riflemen in our ways and life. To the extent it exists, i believe in it.

    1. AgLander June 14, 2016

      Correct message…..wrong site. This comment section is dominated by head the sand (regressive) progressives living in a bubble world of strict political and cultural orthodoxy. Opposing views need not apply.

      1. jmprint June 14, 2016

        In the sand, but not up our A$$. You guys are clueless, have been crying from day one that President Obama was coming for your guns, cry, cry cry, But guess what your guns are still intact, fear mongering is great for you guys, keeps you on the edge, it also keeps you from thinking properly, and the clueless followers that have no backbone. Please do take your opinion where it the stench of hate is too overpowering for us decent humans.

        1. AgLander June 14, 2016

          You succeeded in producing a lot of spit spewing bluster and ranting. Content? You fail. Sorry. Come back when (in your words) you have the ability to “think properly”.

          1. jmprint June 14, 2016

            You don’t have the ability to understand, so what does it matter. Maybe I should reside the Green Eggs and Ham story as your senator Cruz did while he was suppose to be working for ALL americans.

          2. AgLander June 14, 2016

            You seem be dialing it back and calming to some degree now…this is good.

          3. jmprint June 14, 2016

            Aren’t you a beauty of an individual.

          4. AgLander June 14, 2016

            Well, thank you! We are complete opposites!

          5. jmprint June 14, 2016

            AMEN, I thank God, for small favors.

      2. Insinnergy June 14, 2016

        Content = zero.
        As usual
        Have a hug.

    2. jmprint June 14, 2016

      And that is the problem with the republican clan, they want to take us back to the good old gun toting days, but what YOU and others don’t take under consideration is that the guns on the street are meant for WARS. My spouse is on the fly watch because of his last name, and guess what I wouldn’t mind that he be deterred from purchasing a gun of such caliber. YOU and the republicans own this mess. If the no fly-no gun law was passed, this dude would have been a trigger of suspect.

      You think NO different then the assailant, his mind was warped like your.

      WE NEED STRICTER GUN LAWS. period, did you hear that PERIOD.

      1. AgLander June 14, 2016

        We need less upper caps from you……period!

        1. jmprint June 14, 2016

          We need less of you period.

  8. Rightazz June 14, 2016

    Another reality you fail to exam is mental health issues at one time in America social medicine the government paid for mental health if people could not afford it, today the public intuitions have been mostly closed. The people in need of help never receive it. Mental illness is the core of the problem. Our view of mental illness and what we as a society do about it needs to change. Sorry gun control is not going to change anything except make it a little harder to obtain a gun even if it is from the black market

    1. jmprint June 14, 2016

      You are wrong, it will help, even at 10% it would help.

      1. Rightazz June 14, 2016

        If you speak of gun control go tell the parents of the missing 43 students in Mexico and the thousands of others murdered and killed by the cartel how well gun control is working in Mexico

        1. jmprint June 14, 2016

          Evil and violence come in all different shades, Mexico’s government is infiltrated with members of the cartel, I don’t need to tell mexicans that, they already know it. What I’m telling you is that if we had control of issue on these guns of war, we would have more people alive today.

          1. Rightazz June 14, 2016

            I am from California we have stronger gun control than most states. My realty may be different than people living in other states. I have no problem with California’s gun control laws. A little bit of a hassle but I still buy a gun. Back to my original these acts of rampage are committed by people that suffer from mental illness . It is not normal behavior to murder people as a society we ignore the mentally ill . Simply enacting gun control does not resolve the issue it will only temporally slow it down.

          2. jmprint June 14, 2016

            It is stupid to think that keeping guns away from these so called mentally ill, (which they are not, they are driven by hate, every one of them) will not work. Even a slow down will save lives, that would be the aim.

          3. Rightazz June 14, 2016

            From your perspective its all hate driven sorry everyone has hate for something or someone at sometime in their life. Letting yourself be consumed with hate to the point of any violent act is in fact mentally ill

          4. jmprint June 14, 2016

            You can call it that if you want, but I deal with a lot of mental challenged people and they are not violent, because they don’t have hate in their heart. To me it’s more evil, letting your guard down, letting hate consume you will drive you crazy.

          5. dpaano June 30, 2016

            Definitely, as I said, we need BOTH…..we need better mental health care AND fewer guns. You can’t have one without the other and hope to stop these killing rampages.

    2. Insinnergy June 14, 2016

      Yeah… that’s why it’s worked everywhere else.
      Because there’s no chance it could possibly work in the USA.

      The bit that pisses me off is that not only are you denying something that has worked in most other places as possibly working… BUT YOU WON’T EVEN TRY AND SEE.

      Apparently being able to stroke your manhood-replacement at night is more important than other people’s lives… including, most likely, your own.

      1. Rightazz June 15, 2016

        OK lets once again explain why this is you say gun control worked everywhere else Where France, Netherlands, Canadian, How amazing that those countries have social health care a person with mental illnesses can receive professional Mental health care Not in America (Obama care by comparison is a joke) people who commit these mass rampage murders needed help years ago. Judging by your statements you are not a gun owner, California has the toughest gun control laws in the USA I have no problem with those gun laws, What I have a problem with is the belief that if gun ownership is outlawed these rampage murders go away. As far as your very ignorant statement manhood-replacement can you not think of a better insult as my dick gets harder than Chinese arithmetic and most nights I do nit have time to play with guns I am spending my time getting laid

        1. dpaano June 30, 2016

          And what about these countries who have VERY strict gun laws…..the ones that do not allow ANY citizen to own a gun? Their crime rates are considerably lower than the United States. Of course, they DO have paid health care, so even the mentally ill can get treated (we don’t have that and surely need it). I think what we need is a combination of better mental health care AND fewer guns!! The two concepts go hand in hand pretty much.

  9. jmprint June 14, 2016

    The NRA is responsible for the amount of guns on the market. The purchasing of these war guns, are at an ALL time high. Now is the time to have a database on ALL people that own these guns that are not meant for street, but wars.

  10. Paul Bass June 14, 2016

    AgLand, I’ve printed this before and never heard back, so

    I’m confused, Why do YOU a GOP troll mouthpiece, have to constantly post on a “liberal” site, so that more people can hate you?
    You just like to prove an a_hole?
    Do you get paid per post?
    You ALWAYS respond, even after you’ve been proven the fool, do you get a bonus for being the last comment?
    Or are you just so “short fingered” that your ego is involved?
    Sorry, just trying to understand the mind of such a consistant GOP troll. Thanks!

    1. Karen June 14, 2016

      Anyone paying Ag to post here insulting liberals on a liberal site, has to be as dumb as he is. Like we’re going to put any credence in what he has to say. It’s kind of fun to spar with him on occasion I suppose but all it’s doing is possibly putting money in his pocket. When he turns his comments to the nasty side, it appears he’s being paid by the word.

  11. leadvillexp June 14, 2016

    It is not the fault of the gun any more than it is the fault of the car when a drunk driver runs through a crowded sidewalk. You fail to put the blame on the person who commits the crime. The police had this man under surveillance and he still got the gun the same as a convicted drunk can get a car. Liberals want to keep illegals in this country. What part of illegal don’t you understand? When people don’t respect the law they disobey it. There has to be severe consequences and respect for the Police for the law to work. We have been lucky another Timothy McVeigh could be just around the corner. Many other countries are finding this out.

    1. Insinnergy June 14, 2016

      1) A car is a device for transporting people. A gun is a device for killing people. Cars are required in modern life, Guns are not. Using your logic I could make a case for everyone freely being allowed to carry flamethrowers as well.
      “It’s not the flamethrowers fault… its the person USING the flamethrower…”
      2) This person was NOT an illegal immigrant. They were a US Citizen. Born in the US.
      3) Timothy McVeigh was also NOT AN IMMIGRANT. He was born in Lockport, NY, and served in the US Military.
      4) You’re an idiot who apparently can’t use Google well enough to find out key facts before typing a useless opinion for everyone else to mock that avoids facts and fails basic logic.

      1. Dan S June 15, 2016

        Thank You I couldn’t have said it better. Of course people who want to do harm to others will find something if guns aren’t readily available. Who’s to stop anyone from mowing down a crowd of people ? We can put up road barriers & when I was in DC last year every federal building had concrete barriers up. Very logical & yet it’s much harder when you have firearms. No business can anticipate when someone has serious intent to shoot the place up. I’m very much in favor of tighter gun restrictions & the ban of assault weapons. I see the NRA as the tobacco companies defending a deadly product

      2. leadvillexp June 15, 2016

        1)Your idea that a gun is only for killing people is wrong. My children grew up eating woodchucks, rabbits, squirrels, deer, bear, raccoon, beaver and more. We still eat them. Flamethrowers can be bought and are used by some companies and fire departments to burn large areas of grass and brush.
        2) You are correct. I may not have made myself clear. I used the illegal immigrant thing to note that liberals overlook the word illegal when dealing with the immigrant issue. I am not against immigration, just illegal immigration.
        3) Again you are partly right. I did not say McVeigh was an immigrant. The point is he did not use guns. He used fertilizer and fuel oil and took out almost all of the building. Should we ban those also?
        40 You can resort to name calling if you like, like most liberals do. I read newspapers, magazines and the internet every day so I do know what is going on.
        5) As an after thought, do you even know how a rifle works? That scary looking AR 15 functions the same way many hunting rifles work.

        1. Insinnergy June 21, 2016

          1) I said “modern life” and “not required”. I specifically did NOT say its “only” function is killing people. I can’t help it if you can’t read.
          Yes, some guns are useful on farms.
          Yes, some guns can be used for hunting as you say.
          None of these bucolic functions are modern, required, or applicable to the story above which is based in a city.
          And if you are hunting with an assault weapon that has low muzzle velocity, large bullet drop, poor stability for ranged shots, limited stopping power due to the tiny round it uses, and a single positive of being able to pump out 43 rounds a minute at relatively close targets… then you’re an idiot.
          2) Fair enough, thank you for clarifying. I stand corrected. However, note “illegal” is simply, and literally, a legal definition. And the GOP killed the bipartisan immigration bill, whilst at the same time knowing that the economy of the southern states depends on “illegals”. Ironically if you make them “legals” the businesses employing them in the South and West would have to pay a lot more… funny that, eh?
          3) My fault… your exposition somewhat trailed on the from anti-(illegal) immigrant point, so I mistakenly assumed it was the same point.
          Ironically the FBI keep watch on large purchases of bomb-making materials… because someone made a sensible law about that. So yes… bomb making materials are tracked and regulated. And because they are tracked and regulated, Timothy couldn’t get C4 or TNT… he had to buy the crappiest “bomb making materials” out of the few things that are in such common usage for normal purposes that they are effectively impossible to track or control… fertiliser and other chemicals. How much of that building, or the city, do you estimate he would have blown up if he’d packed that truck with C4? I’m thinking around 4 city blocks?
          So no… we can’t ban the components of Timothy’s bomb. Nor can we ban airplanes or busses when terrorists use those as weapons for mass murder.
          But we sure can put sensible laws in place to limit their ability to get their hands on those things, and further laws to reduce the potential destruction if they do.
          i.e. proper explosives are banned and tracked… plane cockpits are now reinforced and locked and security checkpoints and scans were created….
          Sensible laws to reduce bad consequences.
          4) I sure will. I’m way past the point of arguing politely with the pinheads that support Trump’s talking points, the NRA (but ignore their members) or Fox News.
          Mainly for two reasons: (1) There are a high number of trolls and astroturfers, probably deliberately.
          and (2) I’ve found through sad experience that no matter how long I spend writing up careful rebuttals, providing links and evidence, and passing on immutable facts as counter-arguments that are not open to question, it is incredibly rare for a SINGLE Republican to actually absorb any of it, and respond directly to the point. Instead you get the intellectually lazy approach of misdirection, personal attack, and a random new line of argument… usually coupled with some displacement… or even actively ridiculous “reasoning”. Or to put it another way… they’re not here to argue… they’re here to scream, and yell and work out all their racism and hatred and hopefully get some attention. For me this means that simple polite argument just doesn’t cut it any more. Basically it simply saves time to front-load the derision, sarcasm and contempt at the poor intellects, the painful incoherence, and the obvious inability to argue or address facts and evidence.
          You would be the first person in a long time who has actually responded with real points, and in a logical way. Kudos.
          If you want to see trolling, Astroturfing and misdirection/avoidance/ad hominem with no redeeming features, check out Otto the Goat, AgLander and Phil Christianpinhead. They are on here all the time and will give you a wonderful sense of the fulsome garbage that winds people up here all day every day and creates said contempt.
          Why are they here? Apparently for our own good…
          5) That’s a false equivalence for the purpose of pretending an AR-15 is useful for something other than killing lots of people quickly at relatively close range.
          If you think an AR-15 is a hunting rifle, then I think you’re an idiot. Yes I know how a rifle works. Yes I know what makes a good hunting rifle. It is true that an AR-15 “functions the same way as many hunting rifles work”… however try shooting up a nightclub with a Remington Model 700 Bolt Action and see how high you get your death toll to go.
          Conversely try shooting a deer at 200m (or a squirrel at 50m) with an AR-15 and see how you go.
          The fact that a 1300cc Ford three door hatchback and a Ferrari Formula 1 race car both “function the same way” won’t get you the right to drive your F1 race car through the city streets.

    2. cthetruth June 15, 2016

      What kind of ignorant analogy is that.If that sick person or hateful person had a knife or a hand gun the loss of life would be much less and I don’t care how many people the NR A wants to arm, the element of surprise will always win.
      . There is no reason for anyone to have a military style weapon other than to kill innocent people like our babies at Sandy Hook and all the other senseless tragedies.You cannot even use these weapons to kill an animal because it would mutilate it. Even the cops don’t want these weapons on the street. Wake up and stop falling for the greedy gun lobbyists and the politicians in their pocket. It is all about money hidden behind the second amendment.

      1. leadvillexp June 15, 2016

        You are right about the element of surprise, but after that it is time for people to take care of and defend themselves no matter what the killing device is. The AR 15 is all cosmetic. It is a look alike M 16. New York banned the cosmetics but still allows the rifle. Many hunting rifles work the same as the AR 15 with even larger calibers but are not banned because they don’t look scary. I have used an AR 15 to kill deer and it didn’t mutilate it. In fact it did less damage than my 32 Winchester lever action. I don’t use it because you have to be very accurate if you want to kill a large animal and it doesn’t have the power. It is for smaller game like boar or coyotes. The question is do you know anything about how a rifle functions.
        You are also wrong about the police. I have worked with and around police most of my life until I retired. I was also a Peace Officer for a municipality and Superintendent of Public Works. Most police I know in New York are against the New York State Safe Act and want it removed. Some local Sheriffs have gone so far as to protect protesters from being removed by the State Police.
        One last thing. The muzzle loading rifle in 1776 was a state of the art military weapon at that time. That is why King George tried to take them away from the people in Boston.

        1. cthetruth June 15, 2016

          My husband is retired NYPD. He was on the job in the 60s in Brownsville.He worked with many who were killed in his precincts. He worked in the crime lab in Mahattan, the 94 and motorcycle . One co- worker was killed in Rodmans Neck with a bomb that he tried to detonate, he was with the bomb squad, the other had his throat slit from ear to ear, another whose brother was shot gunned to death in his patrol car and I can go further. The only people who should have these assault weapons from his perspective are law enforcement and the military. A country wide ban should be in effect, not state by state where you can go across state lines and buy what you want. That would help keep it out of the bad guys hands not all but most. As it is now the N R A is very happy to sell to anyone who has the money. Keep all your guns, but not assault weapons. Tighten up Internet and gun shows. As far as our forefathers go, they made the rules before assault weapons with large clips could kill many in seconds. This is not 1776.

          1. leadvillexp June 16, 2016

            Your husband was a very brave man. He worked in some of the toughest places and hardest times for law enforcement.
            I am against banning any kind of weapon. However I do think we should license all firearms owners and users. Background checks at time of purchase do little. If you licensed all firearms users it could be put on their drivers license and a background check done every five years the same as my hazmat license. No bans, no registrations and good in all 50 states.
            When our forefathers wrote the Second Amendment a private citizen could also own artillery and explosives. This lasted until after the War between the States. The idea was you could protect yourself from an unjust government. Your rights are disappearing fast and not just gun rights. We had a man locally who owned a Stewarts Shop and traveled overseas to a family emergency and because he had over $10,000 in cash the government confiscated it. Now he has to hire a lawyer and prove he earned it legally. They confiscated his money without due process and now he has to prove he is innocent.
            As goes the Second Amendment so goes the First and all the rest.

          2. cthetruth June 18, 2016

            The reason why your friends money was confiscated was due to the patriot act as I assume you know. Our rights were infringed upon by the Bush administration’s passing of that illegal law in order to fight terrorism or so they say. Any thing over 10,000 dollars must be verified to make sure you are not a drug dealer, or moving Ill gotten gains to fund illegal activities. Even when you make a deposit in a bank over 10 ,000 you have to have documentation. Was your friend not aware of that? It would have saved him money and heartaches

    3. dpaano June 30, 2016

      Mateen was NOT an illegal so I’m not sure where you’re going with your rant.

      1. leadvillexp June 30, 2016

        I know Mateen was not illegal. I didn’t make it as clear as I should have. The point was the liberal mindset. Mateen was a US Citizen but took up the ISIS cause. He pledged loyalty to ISIS, that makes him a member. Liberals want to let more people from these Arab countries into the US and they aren’t screened properly. Whether US citizen or Arab they will find a way to cause mass casualties banning guns is not the answer.

  12. Leftout June 14, 2016

    Did Obama. Ban all Pressuriized Cooking Pots after Th Boston Marathon Bombings . Or knives after the Moslem man Beheaded a shopper in public mall, …. It seems we should look at the most common element present in these crimes ……ok class let’s see … Hmmmm?’! ..ok we have
    First ….MOSLEMS , Move on nothing to see here ……. All from ABC , NBC MSNBC , CNN, US DOJ ….. How will we ever resolve this . Lets talk with them and be nice….. Where is Obama when we can use his skills . He certainly can relate to these Islamic Moslem Killers …..oops ,’please oBama and Jeh Jeh help us . Or did they just resign ….. Someone said ?

    1. Insinnergy June 14, 2016

      I could use the same “quality” of logic in the opposite way to demand that everyone should be allowed to carry grenades and rocket launchers. If you’re not going to use your brain why don’t you just get lost?

      There are two common themes here:
      1) Rampant mental illness.
      2) The ease of buying assault weapons legally EVEN IF you’ve been investigated by the FBI as a possible terrorist.

      The first one is due to the useless state of your horribly overpriced healthcare system and is a solvable problem if any of you cared about it.

      The second is also a solvable problem, is supported by 80% of Americans… and will never be law because the NRA and their Gun Manufacturer backers make an absolute ton of money every time one of your crazies goes nuts and murders multiple people with a big gun. Gun sales and stock prices go massively up. ALL you have to do to decipher their bullsh!t is “follow the money”.

      The Religious angle (Muslim or Christian, or Pastafarian) is a total red herring. All believing in a religion tells us is that:
      – you’re gullible
      – prone to believing things you specifically can’t prove
      – possibly mentally ill
      – and searching for justification for doing the things you were going to do anyway.

      If this guy was ISIS… WTF shoot up a gay nightclub?
      Half the GOP and most of the mouth-breathing rednecks in the USA would cheer that. So why pick that target? Why not shoot up a national monument or a government building and cause consternation to even the bigoted Right?

      I’ll tell you why… Because his big issue was homophobia and probably paranoid schizophrenia, and he grabbed the first belief system he could find that justified his desire to go kill gay people and provided a comforting lie about how it’s right to do so and he would go to heaven afterwards.

      If ISIS hadn’t had marketing material floating prominently out there, then perhaps he’d have become an Evangelical Christian and killed them because “God Hates Fags” as I see so often on signs held by people who should know better… Or just killed them because his star sign was in the wrong house… who knows.

      These people are sick. And sick people in the USA can go buy weapons built for massacring large numbers of people, legally.
      That is the crux of your problem.

      1. Leftout June 15, 2016

        I’ve always said this is a major mental health issue and that we are not able to report the tendencies of certain people w mental health problem including Moslems , the FBI could not even follow this fellow due to rules of political correctness or Violating Civil Rights, this Moslem was involved with interpreting the Koran to his own hatreds . His wife may shed light on his motives. Terrorist like to take advantage of sensationalizing their carnage . Even after living in the host countries for two generations they can not assimilate , UK. France , Belgium ,,,,, these are most gracious nations . Moslems should not be allowed to emigrate from their native lands , a simple solution, their evil religion? Mixed with Sharia is only for themselves . No sane , civilized people’s will tolerate this . Do you not agree. ?!

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