fbpx

Type to search

How Evangelicals Support White Supremacy—Even Though They Reject Racism

Far Right Featured Post Politics Religion

How Evangelicals Support White Supremacy—Even Though They Reject Racism

Share
evangelicals

Reprinted with permission from AlterNet.

I spent most of my life inside the Evangelical Christian community. I’ve watched society puzzle over its relationship to white supremacy. Evangelical leaders seem oddly removed from the discussion, condemning racism but doing nothing pro-active about the problem. There’s a reason for this phenomenon.

My Evangelical experience occured inside a large Southern Baptist Convention affiliated congregation called Spotswood Baptist Church in Virginia. The SBC is the largest Evangelical denomination in the United States, housing more than 15 million members. The only Christian body in the U.S. with more members is the Catholic Church.

Originally formed in partial defense of slavery, the SBC publicly rejects its racist roots. The apology and statement on race released by the SBC in the 1990s reads in part, “[W]e apologize to all African-Americans for condoning and/or perpetuating individual and systemic racism in our lifetime; and we genuinely repent of racism of which we have been guilty, whether consciously (Psalm 19:13) or unconsciously (Leviticus 4:27).” It continues “[W]e ask forgiveness from our African-American brothers and sisters.”

All good stuff. But what comes next should raise eyebrows: “[W]e hereby commit ourselves to eradicate racism in all its forms from Southern Baptist life and ministry.”

Southern Baptists don’t express any genuine interest in eradicating racism from the world ― just the denomination’s own community.

This is true across most of racism-rejecting Evangelicalism. This subset of Christians does not work toward racial equality in society in any organized way. Racial inequality outside the structure isn’t an area of interest or concern. But the reason isn’t always obvious to outsiders.

Evangelicals do not avoid participation in racial advocacy because they support racism (although some do). They avoid it because of a genuine theological belief that the world is sinful and people cannot be redeemed outside their own structure. Attempts to eradicate racism in the world are perceived as futile for a religious group that believes in a literal future Armageddon.

The singular goal of Evangelicals is to get outsiders into the faith system. Racism is treated as a legitimate moral concern once the person has, in Evangelical parlance, committed their life to Jesus. Until then, Satan is the problem and racism one of many incurable symptoms.

Evangelicals view what they derisively name the “social gospel” to be a distraction from their primary goal of “soul winning.” That said, some leading Evangelicals have tried in vain to convince members to care more in recent years. But indoctrination into the zero-sum theology of Evangelical Christianity has left congregants hardened and averse to such messages.

This extreme focus is why Evangelicals will animatedly support any politician who permits them the ability to further their messages, regardless of character. Trump’s presidency is a moral cesspool, but conservative Christians view him as a tool to increase their own cultural reach. Trump’s character is trivial to them.

In the race to win lost souls, social movements dedicated to the well-being of any and all marginalized groups are a waste of time for Evangelicals, unless they produce converts. The same goes for support of government policies and politicians that help the citizenry at-large. The end goal is all that counts.

The reason I didn’t know racism was an actual societal problem until adulthood is because my life happened within the confines of an isolated community of people who overwhelming spoke out against overt racism in their own ranks and squashed conversation about the struggles people face outside the community by bringing the conversation back to society’s need for God.

As far as Evangelicals are concerned, the only cure for racism is inside the doors to their churches. Everyone else can, and will, go to Hell.

Chris Sosa is an associate editor at AlterNet. His work has appeared in MicSalonCare2, Huffington Post and other publications. Previously, he was a campaign specialist and media spokesperson for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Follow him on Twitter @ChrisSosa.

Tags:

54 Comments

  1. FireBaron August 21, 2017

    So in a hurry to save the few, they are ignoring the building burning down around them.
    Evangelicals have the most narrow focus of any Christian religious group out there. They are so fixated on saving everyone else’ soul by bringing them into the fold, they ignore the problems of the world around them. Oh, yes, they may sponsor a field trip to work in some place in need of help, but they tend to spend more time explaining to their hosts about how THEY have the only way to salvation than they do swinging hammers or fitting plumbing.
    And within the structure of most Evangelical Churches, you find a rigid system closed to outside influence. Oh, they have bowling leagues, but they make sure their league nights are essentially taking up the entire bowling alley. They have social groups, clubs, education classes, etc., but you rarely find their members joining other organizations like the Elks, Lions, Masons, etc. The DAR and SAR are considered acceptable, especially when used as recruiting grounds for the “Second Great Awakening”.
    While they will help if a congregant needs assistance, they will rarely donate anything to the Salvation Army or Goodwill. They will arrange for their own blood drives rather than going to one sponsored by a school, or other civic or government function.
    In essence, Evangelical Christians attempt to be as much of a closed society as the Hassidic community, but able to “blend in” so as not to appear as outsiders.

    Reply
    1. idamag August 21, 2017

      They do discourage their children associating with those worldly kids who go to school dances and ball games. The reason I put friends in quotation marks in my post, above, was that those people who loved us and associated with us soon disappeared after I left the church. But that was a blessing. I have some of the most amazing friends that I might not have met, otherwise. Some of them are atheists. I would buy a used car, without a contract from them any day.

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker August 22, 2017

        And behind it all? The racism, the bigotry, the bible thumping? Fear. Fear that those black males will be more powerful and “take over” the world. Sounds absurd in 2017, doesn’t it?

        The only reason for all that fear and hatred in the south is their own inability to make changes. Everything they say and do is about someone who is dead. They don’t actually live in today’s world. Because they fear to do so would mean they have to change.

        Reply
    2. johninPCFL August 22, 2017

      Their focus is exactly the same as ISIS. You can only succeed by becoming a member of “the chosen”, and by following all of the rules passed down from on high.

      ISIS today is where the SBC was in the 1860s. The SBC held that slavery was just, and lynching was accepted. ISIS today holds that slavery is fine, and killing the “infidels” (code from on-high for “those not like us”) is acceptable.

      Was “the war of northern aggression” successful in changing the SBC? No. The change and apology came well over 100 years from its founding. We face a similar situation in the middle east. A century of war and nation building will be our lot if we try to change their hearts and minds.

      Reply
  2. idamag August 21, 2017

    I was a member of the First Baptist Church. A southern (Cavalry) Baptist Church moved into our community. Some of my church “friends” moved their memberships and since the Cavalry Baptist Church was closer to my home, I moved, too. Inside the church walls, they do not hide their racism. I heard mild racist jokes from the pulpit. Their acceptance of a person who cheats those, who did work for him, several times out of their due money for services rendered, a person who was taped bragging about sexua assault, a person who was photographed with members of the mob, a person who has lied over and over, a person who was accused of sexual assault from 22 women, a person who has had to settle out of court for fraud and money laundering, and a person who was accused of raping a 13-year-old – that acceptance shows who they really are. They are ot beacons of purity. They can sing, “Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow” s long as they want, but they are a sham. Not everyone who cries “Lord, Lord” shall see the KIngdom of Heaven.,

    Reply
    1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth August 21, 2017

      My experience as a black person born and raised in Jackson, Mississippi was filled with joy and a sense of apprehension that all wasn’t right. Every Sunday my family attended “Faith Presbyterian Church on Morton Street. Since the churches were segregated, the congregation, like that of all the other countless denominations in the black community were all black—it was forbidden to attend white churches, and vice versa. By the 3rd grade I slowly began to understand that segregation was the law of the land. I pondered that dichotomy from grade school onward. And I still marvel at how depraved in its divisiveness humanity the world over has become.

      Reply
      1. idamag August 21, 2017

        OMG, that must have been awful. No one should feel fear unless they earned it. I have always thought Mississippi was the devil’s own. I remember the Emmett Till murder. I also read where the “lady” who accused him of whistling at her, said she lied and has always felt guilty. Life Magazine did more to stop the terrorism, in the south, than any other media outlet. They printed pictures of the cross burnings and the lynchings. I had a friend (he died) who was a Black Man from Louisiana. We were working on a civic project together in a public park. The police came with drug sniffing dogs. They weren’t bothering us. They were after some other people. My friend was visible upset about the dogs and the police.

        Reply
        1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth August 28, 2017

          Yes, the murder of Emmett Till was an horrific affair. Sometimes i still see in my mind the image of his mangled body in an open casket. It wasn’t until later in college that I began to focus of the particulars of the murder. Reading the magazine article and other literature about Emmett, I began a systematic study of the basic background of the Civil Rights, when not swamped with school work and reading a host of science/math, and history books.
          I recall in Jackson, the fury of the black students and some of the staff at the junior high school I attended when we heard that President Kennedy had been assassinated in Dallas.

          The summer of 1963 was both enjoyable for a 9th grader starting to get high on going to the library to read math books and playing basketball full court in humid 90 degree weather, and traumatic with all the news about murders and protests against segregation—Tougaloo College was just north of the neighborhood where I grew up in.

          Reply
          1. idamag August 31, 2017

            Life Magazine also showed a picture of the murderers and their wives in the Baptist Church.

            Reply
      2. Mama Bear August 22, 2017

        That era – which persists today is so disgusting and anti-Jesus. I went to college at Vanderbilt in the mid sixties and had a black roommate. The school assigned freshman rooms alphabetically and our names came together (an act of divine providence I might add). Being a Jewish kid from the north race just did not matter to me – but the school sent my parents a letter asking “permission” to put me with a black woman. My mother was so furious she called the Dean of Women and read her the riot act. My roommate’s dad was a preacher and I spent many Sundays in a pew of his church – learning love. Cleo is the only friend from college that I kept.

        Reply
        1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth August 28, 2017

          What a wonderful experience you had in college. As an undergraduate at MIT, I hooked up with some fellows on my 2nd day, having arrived early on campus before the official start of school. I was provided temp accommodations in the gym for those of us who arrived too early to be assigned to our rooms.
          Some frat guys from Tau Epsilon Phi came by one day to play basketball—they were freshmen at MIT as well, and invited me to stay overnight at their frat in Boston. After a year in my dorm on campus, I was invited to join the frat, and took up lodging in their 4 story brownstone building in Back Bay, in a large bedroom shared with two other guys. The frat was for Jewish guys, with a Catholic and a Korean—a great group, with me as the “token” black(SMILE). We got along swell, and on Christmas break, I stayed at the home of one of the guys whose parents welcomed me. It was a great experience, and my first contact with people of the Jewish Faith, and with white people in general on a long-term positive basis.

          An experience I’ll never forget.

          Reply
    2. dpaano August 22, 2017

      Boy, Ida, the “Rapture” is going to be a REAL surprise to them when they are left on this earth while the rest of us get to heaven (I’m being hopeful that I’ll be in that group)!!!

      Reply
    3. jimmy midnight August 22, 2017

      They’re mistaken in thinking that attendance religious services will save their sorry backsides, which were arguably on their way to a better place when Jesus said, “Bless-ed.”

      Reply
  3. Aaron_of_Portsmouth August 21, 2017

    I’m happy to see that the National Memo is starting to focus on what I’ve witnessed as a grand hypocrisy in American Society.

    Since the 1st day on entering the 1st grade in Jackson, Miss. in the 50’s, I noticed something a bit odd but couldn’t articulate what I sensed. All the books we had were
    filled with wonderful pictures and drawings of kids whose skin color was the same, but differed from mine. (One of the first things any child on the earth notices is distinctions of skin color. Being a visually-oriented creation, this is natural).

    By the 2nd grade, I learned that a cemetery just on the other side of the school which I could see from my seat was only for white people, which puzzled me. Why would dead people be concerned about who was buried next to their grave site?
    By the 3rd grade, it dawned on me that the Sunday morning radio programs dedicated to broadcasting sermons was from churches which only white people were allowed to attend. By then, with all the signage of “For White Only”, and “For Colored Only”, it crystallized in my mind that two distinct societies—black and white—resided in Mississippi, living and working side by side, in a so-called “Separate but Equal” environment. The only interactions were in the work as menials versus managerial/supervisory, underclass versus privileged, etc.

    One day in while still in grade school, I asked myself if Christians all recognize Jesus for who He is, why would they allow the Message of Jesus to separate the races, to preach one thing and behave in an inhumane manner later. By that time the Civil Rights Movement was getting started and the white churches as well as other status quo institutions were violently opposed to being humane and sensitive to the needs of black people. During that period, my dad wanted to attend the local Christian Science Church because his sister in Chicago, had become a member. When he dressed up to go one Sunday, he would later inform me, he was rebuffed at the doorway of the church, and told he wasn’t allowed to enter.

    Soon thereafter, while delivering Baha’i literature to a woman on his postal route, he asked her about the Baha’i Faith. She was a black woman and she invited him to ayyend. The Baha’is it turned out had already been defying Jim Crow in Jackson for years, while the churches caved in to this social custom. The Baha’is were an interesting mix of whites and blacks, and there also was a student from Kenya, attending the segregated Jackson State College, who also was a Baha’i. When I learned of this, I was in the 9th grade. I reluctantly decided to check out this strange, weird sounding, religious gathering. A few years later, I became a Baha’i, but only when I got the assurance that accepting Baha’u’llah meant that I must not reject what I formerly accepted and believed in—that Jesus was who He claimed to be. Instead, I was informed that to accept Baha’u’llah meant that I had to accept all the Messengers sent by God aforetime—even those who I had never heard of. And that the Central overriding theme of Baha’u’llah’s Message was “The Oneness of Humankind”.

    Now, that was a unique and revolutionary concept to a young man then like myself who was getting pretty angry about constant reports of deaths and brutal responses by police and civic organizations in the white community to the Civil Rights Movement.

    And here I am today, more committed and more perceptive and understanding of the root causes of the world’s illnesses.

    Reply
    1. stcroixcarp August 22, 2017

      Thank you Aaron.

      Reply
    2. Mama Bear August 22, 2017

      WOW! Thank you Aaron for sharing this. I am so very fascinated by your faith and have begun exploring it because I do believe that it fills in so many blanks left vacant by self-serving and self-perpetuating “religions” we are exposed to.

      Reply
      1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth August 27, 2017

        Thank you. Once I got assurance that my past experience in the church didn’t mean that I had to erase the central tenets of having been brought up as a Christian— in a segregated Christian environment—but I had to keep them and merge the new Teachings with the previous Teachings, in a seamless and organic manner.
        Which then opened my mind to be able to see the threads of Truth running through all the Major Religions, as well as being informed that the Native Americans, Pacific Islanders, ancient African communities, etc., all had their Teachers as well.

        Here is a sample from a Tablet by Baha’u’llah on the theme of the Oneness of the Messengers and the respective Religions which have been revealed:

        ————————————————————————————–
        “…It is clear and evident to thee that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of Being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendor! Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: “I am the return of all the Prophets,” He, verily, speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact, the truth of which is firmly established….
        The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. Even as He saith: “Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the others. To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs, and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit.”
        It is because of this difference in their station and mission that the words and utterances flowing from these Well Springs of Divine knowledge appear to diverge and differ. Otherwise, in the eyes of them that are initiated into the mysteries of Divine wisdom, all their utterances are, in reality, but the expressions of one Truth. As most of the people have failed to appreciate those stations to which We have referred, they, therefore, feel perplexed and dismayed at the varying utterances pronounced by Manifestations that are essentially one and the same.
        It hath ever been evident that all these divergencies of utterance are attributable to differences of station. Thus, viewed from the standpoint of their oneness and sublime detachment, the attributes of Godhead, Divinity, Supreme Singleness, and Inmost Essence, have been, and are applicable to those Essences of Being, inasmuch as they all abide on the throne of Divine Revelation, and are established upon the seat of Divine Concealment. Through their appearance the Revelation of God is made manifest, and by their countenance the Beauty of God is revealed. Thus it is that the accents of God Himself have been heard uttered by these Manifestations of the Divine Being. …”
        —————————————————————————————

        This is how Shoghi Effendi, an individual Central Figure of the Baha’i Faith, as designated by inference by Baha’u’llah, and specifically by Abdu’l Baha to be the official translator. Note the style and the similarities to the English used in translating the Bible into the “King James” translation. Shoghi Effendi was directed by his grandfather, Abdu’l Baha. to attend Oxford University’s Balliol College. There, Shoghi Effendi majored in English Literature and asked some students during his arrival which book was considered most prominent in the English language. To which they replied “The Bible”. So, that is the style he adopted in translating from Arabic/Persian to English.

        Many Tablets still remain to be translated, but the main ones have been rendered into English and the other languages.

        This is a first in the annals of Religion, from “Adam” up to the present, that someone has in writing been designated as Interpreter, in the case of Abdu’l Baha, and later Shoghi Effendi, in writing by Abdu’l Baha, designated as Interpreter, AND translator from the original languages into English. This has insured that the Baha’i Faith would be protected for its duration until the next Messenger, from splitting up into sects. A division which occurred in the past Religions over who has Authority to act as a Standard, and as an Interpreter/Translator.

        Now, the task of translating is done by a committee of language experts working at the Baha’i World Center in Haifa, Israel. These translations are official only when done by the Research committee in Haifa. After translation, the Universal House of Justice has the finals say and approval of the translation. After which translations from the target English translations are applied to a methodology for translating into the other languages of the world. Thereby, providing an accurate set of translations which all the Baha’is the world over have available in their native tongue.

        When I visited the Baha’is in a community in Oman, they would read from the original Arabic reproductions, and as a courtesy would tell me where in the English versions I can find what was read. I know some Arabic, and can read some things, but not enough to fully understand something like prayers and Tablets recited in Arabic.

        Reply
        1. Mama Bear August 29, 2017

          Thank you Aaron. I am very glad that you share your knowledge and faith with me.

          Reply
    3. Beethoven August 22, 2017

      I was raised as a Southern Baptist in a small southern city. My grandfather was a Baptist preacher (but relied on his farm to eke out a hardscrabble living), and my father was a deacon in the Southern Baptist church I attended from age three to college. My memories of that time include one occasion when my mother and I visited a downtown clothing store, which had two drinking fountains: one labeled “White” and one labeled “Colored.” I was probably about five or six years old, but could recognize the words easily, yet didn’t know their significance. When I started to drink from the “Colored” fountain, my mother told me I wasn’t supposed to do that. I asked why, and she simply said it was against the rules; she didn’t say anything about blacks being inferior or dirty or anything like that as the reason, just that it was against the rules.

      Years later, when I was a young teenager, we had the civil rights activism led by Martin Luther King, and the response in Birmingham, AL by Bull Connor, which was in the news. Rumors started going around that on a particular Sunday the blacks were going to appear at our church to try to integrate it. I heard some of the discussion about this, and remember that some of the deacons said the response should be to meet them at the door and turn them away and call the police if they refused to leave. My father, on the other hand, said that if they showed up and tried to disrupt the service, the deacons should politely ask them to leave and politely escort them out, but that if they were willing to participate in the service, they should be welcomed. As it turned out, the rumors were false, and no blacks ever showed up at that church.

      Reply
    4. jimmy midnight August 22, 2017

      Yeah, U R.

      Reply
      1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth August 27, 2017

        Goodnight, jimmy. Bedtime for bonzo.

        Reply
  4. Mama Bear August 22, 2017

    The glaring omission from this article is the leaning of this sect towards “Dominionism”.
    It was a very short step for them to go from the scripture that “God gave them dominion over the animals of the earth” to “God told us to take charge and put our idea of Him and our version of sharia law into place in the US” – which of course many of our current Rethuglican leaders have brought to Washington. These people are very dangerous and I fear them at least as much as I would fear the members of ISIS if I were in the Middle East.

    Reply
    1. 788eddie August 22, 2017

      Hence the label “the American Taliban.” It fits, doesn’t it?

      Reply
      1. dpaano August 22, 2017

        Yes, it does…..it seems that our Government wants ALL of us to become “evangelical Christians” and to hell with any other religion; i.e., Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, etc. Thinking about what this country was supposed to have given us when we landed on its shores….this is a complete 180 degree turnaround! What ever happened to religious freedom and separation of church and state? Apparently, the current administration doesn’t seem to think about that!

        Reply
        1. 788eddie August 22, 2017

          An excellent . . . and as yet remaining unanswered question, dpaano.

          Reply
    2. jimmy midnight August 22, 2017

      Quite right. Talk about comparable!

      Reply
  5. Eleanore Whitaker August 22, 2017

    My ex’s grandmother, Lily Evans Whitaker, was half Seminole Indian and half Irish. As a young woman, she picked cotton and tobacco in GA, FL and the Carolinas before settling into Sopchoppy, Florida. She was in her very genuinely astute way a woman who, by observation alone, had the problems of the south in the palm of her hand.

    She had a saying I loved, “Ah don’t trust a damn man who gits religion. He got a lot of sins in his back pocket.” Now, Lily Evans Whitaker was not a religious Bible Thumper. But, she exuded a deep sense of faith. She was, if nothing else, a woman of steel.

    She always said the reason southerners hated blacks was because after the south lost the Civil War, the plantation owners had to pay wages to get their crops of sugar cane, cotton and tobacco to market.

    Grandma Evans, as we all called her after she divorced Albert Whitaker, a man she called, “hard and mean enough to nearly kill a man with his bare hands,” said that working as a “picker” she heard those “white sharecroppers” complain they had to do “the darkies work.” A fact she said they hated.

    The link between Evangelicals and White Supremacists is simple to figure out. When you grow up being taught hate for the black race and immigrants, you also learn as Grandma Evans would say, “A preacher’s gospel of fear. That’s all them preachers are good for…creatin’ fear.”

    Reply
    1. dpaano August 22, 2017

      I love it…..and now, with Trump throwing out all the “illegal” immigrants, the people will go BACK to picking crops with their OWN bare hands because all the people who currently used to do it will be on the other side of the border. There are NO Americans who will do the jobs of these people….but the Republicans still want them gone. Interesting! Thank you for sharing your Grandma’s thoughts…she sounds like a very strong and interesting woman in her time!

      Reply
      1. johninPCFL August 22, 2017

        Well, that WOULD increase jobs, wouldn’t it? /sarc off

        Reply
        1. Eleanore Whitaker August 22, 2017

          Some of the agri states in the Corn Belt are already complaining there is no one willing to work for the low wages paid to migrant workers.

          Here in southern NJ, farmers have always relied on migrant workers to pick peaches, corn, tomatoes and other crops out in the hot sun which reaches 98 degrees.

          Then, there are the slaughter houses where elites would rather be hung upside down than have to work with blood, guts and gore all day. Not to mention the poultry farms where chicken coops must be regularly “cleaned.”

          Reply
          1. dpaano August 23, 2017

            We’ve seen the same problems here in California….avocados rotting on the trees and prices are going skyhigh, fruit and vegetables left unpicked in the fields, produce prices going up on everything on a daily basis, along with meat prices. Trump’s idiocy is going to end up costing this nation billions of dollars, but by the time he realizes it…..it’ll be too late! Now he wants to continue a war in Afghanistan, but doesn’t seem to understand that the taxpayers have to pay for this……as Bush found out, without raising the taxes to pay for the war…..you get stuck with a
            BIG deficit which the next president is stuck paying for!

            Reply
          2. Eleanore Whitaker August 23, 2017

            The reality of employment today is either you have proper training and stay on top of jobs that are available in 2017 or you become trough feeding, right wing whiner.

            I, for one, am quite fed up hearing about the “forgotten people.” Is Trump planning to heat and cool Trump Tower with coal? You bet not. That Golden Penthouse would be tarnished in a week and little Baron von und zu Trump would end up with asthma.

            How forgotten are they when there are over 280,000 jobs in cyber security today waiting to be filled? Some require minimal training. If they don’t want to work out in hot sun like their ancestor sharecroppers did, there’s always a slaughter house that will hire them. And let’s not forget those Walmartian jobs.

            Trump is a maniac. He claimed in Arizona, HE the BIG CHEESE is going to SHUT DOWN the government if he doesn’t get that wall paid for. And just when did this Lard Ass become the ONLY branch of government? He has a much power to do this as a gnat.

            Reply
          3. dpaano August 23, 2017

            Yes, he has a problem understanding that he’s NOT King Trump and that he is only one-third of our government, and that he cannot FORCE Congress to pay for something just because King Trump orders it! That wall is NOT going to be built….trust me on that one! He can promise the world, but he’s only going to get what Congress will allow him to get, and they are NOT going to take money from other social programs to pay for a stupid wall (and we already know that Mexico is NOT going to pay for it either)!!!

            Reply
          4. Eleanore Whitaker August 24, 2017

            Trump is full of BS. He has always made promises he never intends to keep. You can thank his Mommy Mary Ann for that one, among others. As a child, even though she had 4 other children, it was always her fair haired Donny Boy who got face time with her in the media. Don’t wonder why he has an addiction to getting his mug in the media.

            After Arizona’s Hitlerian rally, he whined that some cameras were shut off by the “media.” This was not one hour after he solidly slammed them as “fake media.” So why would he care if “fake media” shut down their cameras.

            Trump is doing precisely what Hitler did to amass power. He’s inciting the same type of small, less educated, narrow minded group of people.

            One reason he claimed that “there is blame on both sides” was because Hitler did the same thing in the beginning. Tried to blame the Jews for sending out his brown shirts to cause violence in the streets. Now, Trump is doing the same.

            But here is an interesting thing. There was something all too familiar about the young black man posted directly behind Herr Von Trump at the AZ rally. Turns out he wasn’t even from Arizona. Turns out he uses “several names, Maurice Symonette, Maurice Woodside and Michael “the Black Man.”

            If Symonette proves anything about what Trump is after, it is the fact that Symonette was a member of a cult. Here is the reference on him: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/blacks-for-trump-man-rally-maurice-symonette_us_599db434e4b0d8dde99aa7d2

            Reply
          5. dpaano August 24, 2017

            Yes, the “black man” behind Trump is a paid person….he is at EVERY rally that Trump puts on and is ALWAYS just behind Trump with this sign. It’s amazing that you don’t seem to see any OTHER African Americans in the audience. I found all this out on MSN.com yesterday and was amazed to read about this guy! It gets pretty sad when Trump has to pay a lone, sick African American to stand behind him and pretend that he’s speaking for the entire African American people in this country!!

            Reply
    2. jimmy midnight August 22, 2017

      Oh, Elanore, what a lovely and revealing story! 🙂

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker August 23, 2017

        Thank you. Grandma Evans was a true woman of the south. Not the phony pretend kind. Her life is an inspiration to me.

        Reply
    3. Beethoven August 24, 2017

      I’ve acquired a lot of knowledge of my family history, and know these things about them: Every one of my ancestors was born in one of the southern United States, or immigrated to a southern part of the United States before the Civil War, in most cases well before that war. I did discover one of my ancestors who was wealthy enough that he owned a few slaves (apparently less than half a dozen), but most of my ancestors were hardscrabble farmers who were just barely wealthy enough to own the land they farmed, but not wealthy enough to buy or hire others to work it for them. My grandfather was a cotton farmer, who sold the cotton to buy what little his family had that they didn’t grow or make for themselves, and my father and his brothers and sisters grew up picking cotton. My grandfather never hired anyone to pick his cotton, though occasionally neighboring farmers would help pick it, in return for him and his children returning the favor. My maternal grandfather was a bit wealthier and, instead of growing cotton to sell, he grew beef cows and pigs to sell, and nearly everything he had to eat or wear was either grown on the farm he worked himself, or was bought with what little money he earned from selling a few cows and pigs each year.

      I learned that at least one of my ancestors, and some of my ancestors’ family members, fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War, but they fought as foot soldiers, not as officers, and most likely joined the Confederate Army either because they were more or less forced to, or because they were told it was their duty to serve their state, and I doubt that any of them thought they were fighting to preserve a way of life that they had never enjoyed themselves.

      When I was growing up, I did hear some people talk about the blacks as being inferior, especially after the civil rights marches began, but not from my parents or grandparents. In fact, neither my grandparents nor any of their relatives in their generation ever talked about the blacks at all, because the blacks simply were not a part of their universe, which consisted of white farmers who were scraping out a living by doing their own farming.

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker August 25, 2017

        I am the last to ever make anyone feel ashamed of their ancestors. My Dad was an Italian immigrant who spoke with an accent until he died. But, he came to the US because Bari in those days had endured oppression from something my Dad called, “The Black Hand.” It you woke up in Bari and there was an imprint of a Black Hand on your door, the oldest males were killed if they didn’t hand over more than half of their farm goods.

        We are not our ancestors. We can’t be even if we wanted to try. Our world is so far beyond anything our ancestors could ever have anticipated. This will be true for our grandchildren.

        My fear of Trump comes from what I know of Hitler’s earliest attempts to take over government. Trump is following the exact same pattern. He is massing a small bigoted group of loud mouths he makes appear much larger than they are. He rallies, just as Hitler did, in cities where he knows open carry is allowed in large crowds. How dangerous is he when he knows an armed angry crowd will do what Hitler’s brown shirts did, only with guns instead of clubs.

        The hardes thing we must to now is to beat back the right wing extermists. To look the other way or ignore them is to do what the Germans did when Hitler incited one violent incident after another: enable Trump to continue to try to shut down the media, incite morons who are beer swilling, high schools drop outs paid to be his very own cult brown shirts.

        You can just bet the CIA and FBI are working overtime to identify Trump followers seen at his rallies.

        Reply
  6. Dr. Samuel Taddesse August 22, 2017

    Very selfish! Standing by when evil occurs is sinful

    Reply
  7. 788eddie August 22, 2017

    I still think a better label for many of these people would be “Christian Evil-genitals” as it seems that mostly what they seem to be concerned about is sex (and how to stop others from “getting it”).

    Reply
  8. dpaano August 22, 2017

    I know these “evangelical” Christian talk a good game, but they obviously do NOT do what the Bible directs them to do in any way, shape, OR form! This is NOT what Jesus would do!

    Reply
    1. jimmy midnight August 22, 2017

      Hi, i actually think Scriptures R big enough 2 make the case Evangelicals R trying 2 make, by going granular enough on this verse ‘n’ that verse suitable 2 their form of theological partisanship.

      But I think we agree that 4 all religions, everywhere, it’s just like the old song says, “It’s in the way that U use it.”

      Reply
      1. dpaano August 23, 2017

        I agree….we need to learn to respect all of the religions in this country….this what this country was built on — freedom of religion.
        We all believe in the same God…..just in different was and with a different name. I am also a Christian, but NOT an evangelical Christian (these are fake Christians to my way of thinking). If they were HONEST Christians, they would not be doing what they are doing to this country! Our ancestors left England to get away from religious persecution….I would hate to see the same thing happen here because we have no place else to go.

        Reply
        1. tomtype August 23, 2017

          The Puritans came here so the could purify everyone and keep them from sin. They didn’t object to persecuting others. Among the first evangelical groups were the Quakers followed by the Methodists and reformed (New School) Presbyterians. The true name of the Methodists is still preserved in the black church: African Methodist Episcopalian. In short Anglicans following the Method.
          Quick question: what do we call modern day Puritans? Answer: Unitarians. The modern descendants of the Evangelicals are called liberal, mainstream Protestants. But as the spread South, the found the could convert women and Blacks. In fact the three great Crusades of the 19th century were end slavery, give women rights, and end all kinds of substance abuse, particularly alcohol and Tobacco as the most common and creating interlocking social issues. But the could not make any headway in the South without accepting slavery and the attendant racism. It was a deal with the devil. The frontier impiousness became a self-righteous pious racism, but most obviously in the South. This is still a North/South, slavery issue.

          Reply
          1. dpaano August 24, 2017

            Thanks, Tom…..good to know. I always learn something new on this site!!

            Reply
          2. tomtype August 24, 2017

            Then I will relate how we invented freedom of religion. Understand that toleration occurs frequently in civilized lands but complete legal freedom is uniquely American.
            During the French and Indian War (Seven Years War) the Northern Irish began immigrating. They were the famous Scots-Irish that run through US history. They were willing to push out into the Appalachian Mountains and carve out a place for themselves. These were Scots who, backing “Bonnie Prince” Charles against Cromwell lost the battle/rebellion of Culloden. They were told if you want to fight, you can fight the Catholic Irish. And dumped them on some of the worst land in Ireland. Here reference all the Irish troubles and fighting. But they were staunch Presbyterians.
            The Quakers in Pennsylvania held as part of their beliefs and had so stated during the English Civil War, that both Catholics and Protestants were Christians and further that Jews and Muslims (the Turk) also had that of the light (of God) within. As such they allowed and even encouraged settlers of all types. William Penn, himself, had gone to Switzerland and southern Germany to invite the persecuted Mennonites and German Anabaptist to come and settle, becoming the Pennsylvania Dutch. Because of this diversity and becoming a refuge for persons persecuted Pennsylvania grew to be among the largest, most successful, richest and peaceful of the 13 colonies. The Scots-Irish pushed into the mountains taking land from the Indians just as the F&I war began. Previously the Quakers had carefully negotiated land purchase and peaceful settlement and was the only colony that had never had Indian wars. But now caught up in a world war, with only a small militia for policing, The new frontiersmen demanded protection and participation in the war. And the Quakers had literally been outnumbered in their own colony. And they were about to be voted down. They might have tried political manoevering and gerrymandering, but they were too honest for that and were already working out a common democracy. And were also under pressure to adopt a state church with priests and organized services to support the war. Instead, they last Quaker dominated legislature raised an army, but declare absolutely no state or official church with each person responsible for his own religious or lack of religious belief. Which only helped make Pennsylvania even richer, more diverse, more successful. To Philadelphia came leaders from the other colonies for the Continental Congress, Constitutional Convention and the Revolutionary War Capital city. And they say it not only worked but became the American model. In New England were Puritans, Catholics in Maryland, traditional Anglicans in SC and VA. Presbyterians all along the frontier, Dutch Reformed with some Anglicans in New York and of course Pennsylvania. So what church could have the official state church? Right there was proof that no official church was needed and none worked better than any.

            Reply
  9. Richard Prescott August 22, 2017

    This “Evangelical” view is one of the reasons I have had trouble with religion.
    Why do we need more than one religion? And why do the different religions have supposedly similar but different views or tenets?
    I asked this in the past when Jehovah’s Witnesses used to come knocking. “You believe incest is bad, right?” of course the obligatory “Yes” followed.
    “Then how do you explain that Adam and Eve were the originators of mankind, having 3 kids, one who killed his brother and then the world got populated without incest?” many were stumped, but one group then said “Oh, there were people in a nearby valley that Cain married.”
    To which,”Really, then the Bible lies that Adam and Eve were the only humans.”
    My point is this, it is simple.
    All religions were created by a man or group of men. All their doctrines were the results of those men or followers. Thusly all the flaws are the results of men.
    I will not take this where I usually do because what I have presented does offend those who are religious.
    My main point is this. There are many actions in the world that are bad, unnecessary. You do not need to be religious to understand this. You do not need to practice a religion to be a good person. And you do not need to preach how to behave in a certain way to anyone else.

    Reply
    1. Eleanore Whitaker August 24, 2017

      I always had trouble with Genesis on Adam and Eve too. One of my friends was a Catholic clergyman and a clinical psychologist. True oxymoron that, right?

      Anyway, he referred me to a book, “The Bloodline of the Holy Grail” by Lawrence Gardner. It is a wonderful clarification of why we missunderstand the Old and New Testament. In reality, the writings of the Torah and Quaran are far more insightful in many ways since their basis is on human behavior as it existed in the days when these tomes were written.

      I agree too that you don’t need religion to determine right from wrong. I worked with a Russian born mechanical engineering designer who managed to escape Russia around the time of the Chernobyl disaster.

      He was raised in Russia when religion was banned. So, he never grew up with tenets of religious faith. Yet, his understanding of right and wrong was acute.

      Reply
  10. Beethoven August 22, 2017

    The evangelical “Christians” have the theology that all that matters is that a person “accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior and professes such.” If someone makes that claim, that makes him a “Christian” who is “going to heaven,” no matter what kind of life he lives after that event. Their only mission in life is to get their friends and associates to make that claim, which makes those people “one of us.” Anyone else is “going to hell,” so they have no obligation to care about or do anything to help those people.

    I have actually thought that I should feel sorry for, and take pity on, those people, for this reason. If the Bible is literally and wholly true, as they claim to believe, then they are going to hell, because they are not following the laws of God as laid out in the Bible. On the other hand, if the Bible is not true, as I believe, then they have created a hell on earth for themselves and everyone they can persuade to accept their teachings.

    Reply
    1. Eleanore Whitaker August 24, 2017

      My maternal grandmother, Gisella Bordascz Thomas, born in Sigisoara, first a part of Romania, then the Austro Hungarian Empire, was a Gypsy. She always believed how you live your life on earth determines whether you rest in peace for all eternity.

      There are parts of Biblical references that are true. For example, we know Mesopotamia is a true part of historical geography just as Palestine and Egypt are as mentioned in the Old and New Testaments.

      However, because the Bible has numerous authors, this is where human interpretation skews the authors’ intentions.

      What a burning bush means to one individual, it doesn’t to a scientist who can easily explain how a bush seems to miraculously burn of itself, especially in the arid, desert climates of the Middle East.

      Reply
    2. dpaano August 24, 2017

      I agree with you, Beethoven, I am a baptized Christian, but I believe that what I do now, even AFTER being baptized, will decide my fate. As for the Bible, it’s a collection of “stories” that try to teach people how to live their lives….it has been rewritten so many times by so many groups that it’s clearly not what Jesus actually preached. I’m definitely not an atheist, but I really believe that Jesus was NOT actually the Son of God, but just a very special enlightened person who really preached for peace and all good things for mankind. If we actually “lived” what he preached, things would be so much calmer, but there are a few “christians” who haven’t seemed to have read the New Testament or, if they have, are totally misrepresenting what it was trying to get across. Of course, many different religions have different interpretations of the Bible, which is okay, but the main gist of the Bible should be pretty clear no matter HOW it’s interpreted. It’s much like the Muslim’s Koran or the Jewish Torah…..it’s the same God, but it is interpreted as each religion sees it based on their lives and cultures. Personally, I like to think I’m going to heaven because I try to do good to everyone, and it’s a nice thought, but I’m really not sure WHERE I’m going….wherever it is, I certainly hope there aren’t any Republicans or “evangelical Christians.”

      Reply
      1. Beethoven August 24, 2017

        I don’t intend to suggest that all people who claim to be Christians are evil. There have been many people claiming to be followers of Jesus Christ who have actually done a great amount of good for humanity. Just a few examples off the top of my head: Albert Schweitzer, Mother Teresa, Jonas Salk, Martin Luther King. And even the best of those were imperfect and did some things they should not be praised for. But most of the “Christians” I have known throughout my life, and those I have heard about through news media or history records, have been no better, and in many cases far worse, than non-Christians, including Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and atheists. I simply cannot accept a belief system that says a god will reward such people in an afterlife and punish the others without regard to how they lived their lives or how much good or evil they did, but simply on the basis that they accepted (or failed to acknowledge) Jesus as their “Lord and Savior.”

        Reply
  11. tomtype August 22, 2017

    Evangelicalism spread widely in the North after the American Revolution. From it originated an end to slavery, women’s rights and control of abuses of all kinds of substances. By the 1820s it was becoming a force among Southern women. The men remained hard of heart until the new churches accepted racist teaching. But the Southern side of the split was always more masculine oriented with less acceptance of all those great projects.
    The Quakers start talking about slavery around 1700. In two centuries anti-slavery has become the standard with the English speaking world but literally the universal, world wide standard. Such changes to one’s culture are hard enough, but to spread it literally around the world must have been God’s dearest message.

    Reply

Leave a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.