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Saturday, February 16, 2019

In crimson-red Alabama, Parker Griffith, the Democratic candidate for governor, is running ads embracing a critical component of Obamacare. Griffith castigates his opponent, Republican incumbent Robert Bentley, for refusing to expand Medicaid, which the challenger says could benefit more than 300,000 Alabamians.

Of course, Griffith, a retired physician and former member of Congress, never refers to the Affordable Care Act by name. As a moderate Southern Democrat (who briefly switched to the GOP after Obama’s election), he voted against the bill in Congress.

And Griffith’s ads certainly don’t mention President Obama, who some Southern Republicans believe is in league with the Antichrist. But in a state where rural hospitals are shutting down for lack of funds, Griffith believes that Bentley’s hostility toward Medicaid expansion creates an opening.

“It’s unconscionable to have somebody in an office as powerful as governor who will hurt a whole bunch of people because of some political ideology: ‘I hate Obama.’ … We in Alabama would have benefited more than most others” from broadening Medicaid, which provides health insurance for the poor and near-poor, Griffith told me.

While the U.S. Supreme Court voted in 2012 to uphold most of the ACA, including its mandate, the court struck down the portion requiring states to expand Medicaid to insure more people. Like Bentley, most GOP governors took the opportunity to dogmatically refuse the expansion, though the federal government would pay the full costs for the first three years and 90 percent after that.

Now, though, as midterm elections approach, Griffith’s full-court press is just one sign that the politics surrounding the president’s signature legislation have changed since the disastrous rollout seemed to guarantee the GOP a winning campaign issue. Here’s another sign: Many Republicans who just a few months ago continually bashed the policy — vowing to rip out Obamacare root and branch — rarely mention it on the campaign trail these days.

Take a look at Georgia, another bright-red state. Last year, Republican Insurance Commissioner Ralph Hudgens garnered national publicity when he loudly declared that he would be an Obamacare “obstructionist.”

Recently, however, Hudgens backed — no, ran — away from that statement, according to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “I spoke to a Republican group … and I said I was going to be an obstructionist, but I can’t be. I mean, I was talking to a Republican group and I was throwing them some red meat. …

“I’m not a fan of it. I don’t think it’s going to work. But there’s nothing I can do about it,” Hudgens said.

Nearly a dozen of the 29 Republican governors have abandoned their party’s dogma to expand Medicaid. Several more are expected to do so next year after the midterm elections, when pressures to conform to partisan ideology will have faded.

GOP pragmatists have had to acknowledge that the law is working even better than some of its proponents had hoped. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that the ACA will cost the federal government $104 billion less than previously expected over the next decade.

About 7 million people have signed up and paid their premiums. Furthermore, the cost of premiums has not soared, as critics had predicted. (Some rates have increased slightly, while others have gone down.) Moreover, most Americans like the advantages, including a ban on lifetime caps on insurance benefits and an end to the days when insurers could deny coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

The “facts make it harder and harder for opponents to vilify something that is helping people improve not only their health, but their quality of living,” a senior administration official told me in an email.

That doesn’t mean that all Republicans are willing to concede that Obamacare has worked as it was meant to. A few, particularly those in the most conservative states, still vow to “repeal and replace” it. And in states such as Kentucky, Obamacare remains unpopular — even among many of its beneficiaries. That says something about the irrational nature of political decision making.

Still, the ACA has not been anything close to the political disaster for Democrats that Republicans had hoped for. Sometimes, good deeds do go unpunished.

Cynthia Tucker won the Pulitzer Prize for commentary in 2007. She can be reached at cynthia@cynthiatucker.com.

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894 responses to “Obamacare Is Not The Disaster It Was Predicted To Be”

  1. Don Bryan says:

    Fox News And Hannity still think its failing But they are all HATERS

  2. gmccpa says:

    “Still, the ACA has not been anything close to the political disaster for Democrats that Republicans had hoped for”

    For Republicans, the words “disaster” and “hoped for” go hand in hand. They count on these things to create fear and hatred to motivate their base.

  3. joe schmo says:

    ……well…..I guess you have been lied to once again:)

    Each month, branch banks for the Federal Reserve send out questionnaires and surveys to businesses as a way to test the climate of the economy. In the
    month of August, the Philadelphia branch asked businesses what the full
    extend and effect so far from the new Affordable Healthcare Act
    (Obamacare) was, and the responses they received were a disaster. In
    the majority of responses, businesses either let go of employees to
    adjust to the higher costs imposed upon them by the Federal government,
    moved full time employees to part time status, or, changed benefit plans
    so that employees would be forced to pay more towards their premiums. –

    When President Obama promoted the Affordable Care Act several years ago, he made 10 blanket promises that have all been proven to be either false, or outright lies.

    Promise #1: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period.”

    Promise #2: “That means that no matter how we reform health care,
    we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your
    doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period.”

    Promise #3: “In an Obama administration, we’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year.”

    Promise #4: “For the 85 and 90 percent of Americans who already
    have health insurance, this thing’s already happened. And their only
    impact is that their insurance is stronger, better and more secure than
    it was before. Full stop. That’s it. They don’t have to worry about
    anything else.”

    Promise #5: “Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase.”

    Promise #6: “I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits—either now or in the future.”

    Promise #7: “[W]hatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost
    curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and
    government, those elements are in this bill.”

    Promise #8: “I will protect Medicare.”

    Promise #9: “I will sign a universal health care bill into law by the end of my first term as president that will cover every American.”

    Promise #10: “So this law means more choice, more competition, lower costs for millions of Americans.”

    In the four years since it was put into law, Obamacare has been revealed
    to be one of the most draconian, restrictive, and as the Philadelphia
    Fed shows, disastrous pieces of legislation ever imposed upon businesses
    and the American people. And while most Americans knew that the
    current healthcare system was broken under government run programs such as medicare, and privately run insurance schemes known as HMO’s, the full nationalization of healthcare will forever change the relationships
    between Dr. and patient, and businesses and employees.

    • Sand_Cat says:

      Go tune in to Faux Noise. They, like you, haven’t been fooled at all by the president’s evil plan to destroy the country and the liberal media’s complicity. And its complete failure is why you and your friends become increasingly shrill in screaming about it, since those who’ve benefited are so blind they don’t see they were better off with no insurance, or insurance that took their money and covered nothing.
      If it fails, feel free to dance with joy at the suffering of all those who got no insurance, and in the disaster for the country; it’s obvious you would. But until it does, why don’t you find something real to whine about?

      • lookout1 says:

        I find it amazing you can breath with you head so far up your ‘wrecktum’

        • WhutHeSaid says:

          Wow – you are especially vile and ignorant today. Hump your sister last night, or did some unfortunate sheep wander into your trailer park?

        • Sand_Cat says:

          Very clever. Perhaps you could specifically respond to facts, or is your head firmly ensconced in your anus?

          • lookout1 says:

            Oh came up for air i see..
            What Facts?? your post is little more than a liberal retard rant..

            I do find it amazing that you can type from that location.. perhaps you should contact ‘Americas Got Talent’?

            Ive yet to see a person type while their head is inserted up their buttt

          • Sand_Cat says:

            Yes, it’s quite clear you can’t see facts, but you’re oh, so clever.
            I realize that it must be difficult to actually see yourself typing from your favored position, but surely you must realize it’s possible by virtue of that fact.
            Maybe you don’t see me doing so as a result of the unfavorable field of vision you have, not to mention the fact that I have never attempted to do so.

      • joe schmo says:

        Sand_cat why not try exploring other media outlets that lie outside the USA. Rather out of the reaches of MSNBC and the ‘Memo.’ Try BBC….Pravda…..Deutsche Presse…. Then you can really see what the viewpoint towards America is. I’ve been able to get information from Europe about America all my life because my parents were European. Not only will this be an eye opening experience for you but you may actually learn something:)

        I’m not whining. I’m forewarning. I know how socialized medicine works…..

  4. Dominick Vila says:

    Not even the most obtuse Tea Party zealot can deny the fact that a healthcare system that makes affordable preventive medical care accessible to all Americans, regardless of pre-existing conditions, financial wealth, gender, or ethnicity is not a vast improvement compared to the expensive and exclusionary system it replaced. To deflect attention from the obvious, and to minimize political damage after 5 years of obstructionism and demonization, their only recourse is to highlight statements or promises, when the only promise that is worth considering is in front of the eyes of anyone capable of rational thinking.

    • johnleehooker says:

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/05/10/new-mckinsey-survey-74-of-obamacare-sign-ups-were-previously-insured/
      74% were PREVIOUSLY COVERED…btw, my bronze plan premium up 80%…thanks you leech

      • Dominick Vila says:

        The people who had healthcare insurance through their employer still have healthcare insurance. Those who had individual insurance policies that met the minimum standards established by the ACA still have the same policies. Those who had substandard policies, and who relied on ER freebies when they had a serious illness, now have access to SUBSIDIZED healthcare insurance through ACA. If the premium for your bronze plan is 80% higher than what you had before, that means that you were one of the leeches who got freebies at ERs, and were a burden to taxpayers. It breaks my heart when I hear people complain because they suddenly have to pay for what they get…after government subsidies pay for most of the insurance company premiums.

        • johnleehooker says:

          You’re ( or in your world) your an idiot…I CHOSE my coverage and you and your ilk TOOK it from me. You want obamacareTAX, I’m fine with that just leave me the efing alone

          • Dominick Vila says:

            You are free to choose your own healthcare insurance policy…as long as it meets the minimum standards of coverage established in the ACA…and you don’t become a burden to society by using MEDICAID or ER freebies when you have a serious – and expensive – medical problem not covered by your lousy insurance policy.
            Eliminating a corporate subsidy (ESI) paid for with taxpayers monies may be a tax for you, for me it represents the end of something that should have been eliminated immediately after the end of WWII, when corporations were again free to give pay raises to their employees.
            Do yourself a favor and try to find out the root causes for the changes that are being made before you engage in immature insults and reach conclusions devoid of reality.

          • johnleehooker says:

            you sir, are apparently the typical lib/dim/prog who has a great deal to say about something you know NOTHING about.

            I’m a senior male, the MANDATED coverage I MUST now purchase includes maternity, ob/gyn, pre-natal, pediatric dental, and “free” dental”…as the minimum essential benefits.

            for this coverage, which I will NEVER USE, my bronze plan premium is up 80%…there is nothing “immature” about these facts

            I CHOSE the policy that I wanted (it was not “sub-par”) and I PAID for it.

            People like YOU determined that you are better able to make my health care decisions than I am and, frankly, it is both offensive and arrogant that I must get anywhere near people as foolish and ignorant as you are.

            You want obamacareTAX, I’m fine with that just leave me out of your fing utopian delusions…too much to ask isn’t it

          • barry1817 says:

            johnleehooker, nicely said, but seems you are posting to the average 3 year old, who stands in the supermarket screaming that he wants candy, and can’t understand that he can’t get it. Except that I think the 3 year old has more intelligence than some of these posters.

      • WhutHeSaid says:

        You can lie and whine all you want, but the PPACA is THE LAW. There are no exemptions for hateful redneck bigots — so get over it. You rednecks have been leeching off the rest of America long enough.

  5. FT66 says:

    Well done Ms. Tucker at last you have come up with something positive. I have to agree that you have proved me wrong that you are not negative per se. Yes myself, yourself and the rest of republicans know it in their hearts that “ACA” – “Obamacare” is not a disaster, though according to human nature they won’t come forward and admit it. They do not need to do so, because the that heavy silence proves it all.

  6. James Stagg says:

    Yeah. And we wouldn’t want to be disturbed by facts:

    http://healthpolicyandmarket.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-73-million.html

  7. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    The argument is and will always remain as President Obama stated. Americans will not allow other lazy CON Americans to dump the cost of their healthcare onto our healthcare costs. That IS the bottom line on why the HMOs claimed their costs had risen.

    Yet, you get the same freeloaders always trying to bilk the system and make everyone else pay for their needs. AL is a prime example. In May 2012, NPR interviewed the AL DOL chieftain. He clearly stated that AL shoves many of their unemployed onto SSDI, a federal program paid for by the rest of us to save AL $2 million a year out its state funds for unemployment benefits.

    This is just one example of how these red state freeloaders are forcing everyone else to worker harder and longer and then they have the gall to try and reduce our incomes? When we pay for their healthcare AND ours?

    • lookout1 says:

      Red states have freeloaders.. we call them DEMOCRATS..

      Simply look at the 2012 election results… welfare recipient voted for Obama in huge numbers….and its how he won the election… as Romney won EVERY income group over 50k

      So congrats on being the moocher party

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        What YOU call them and what is FACT are your pre-Civil BS Stars and Bars Divide and Conquer attitudes. Welfare in the red states, who have consistently voted for Republicans are kept on wages that can’t remotely be called “living wages.” Where was Walmart founded? Where did the Koch Bois start their business? Where did Chesapeake Energy and Texas Big Oil start?

        All red states who pay dirt wages and throw anyone who doesn’t feed their insatiably greedy money hungry appetites for wealth …sorry you live in DogPatch.

        The reality is that red states get more than 65% of MY federal tax dollars…Big Oil got $14 billion in 2014 and already your GOP House voted to up that to $15 billion next year.

        The biggest moocher are the red prison industry states who have the highest rates of incarceration to fatten the prison population so they can live off federal tax subsidies. Then, there are the 5 billion gun manufacturers….All living in red states like MO, GA, NC, SC and KY.

        Democrats are the other party. Time for you micro control freaks to get your lazy red state asses busy and stay the hell out of MY federal tax dollars.

        • lookout1 says:

          Obama won the welfare vote by 35+ points… look it up you ignorant twat …

          Btw the state with the HIGHEST poverty rate is CALIFORNIA!! and thats from the US CENSUS ..

          The dumb is strong in you ..

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Lying Bigot. The state with the highest poverty rate is Mississippi, which has long been at or near the number one spot. California isn’t even close.

          • lookout1 says:

            Boy you are proud of your ignorance

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/07/california-highest-rate-of-poverty_n_4233292.html

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_poverty_rate

            See the US census uses COST OF living it supplemental poverty rate.. and Guess what .. CropHole Califronian Tops the list with close tto 24% in poverty !

          • Ed Portela says:

            lookout1: Absolutely no reply now from this dummy WhutHe; that’s what happens when you confront idiots with the facts.
            And if he rises again from under his rock, he will say (mark my words !): “You are a lying bigot !!”
            His vocabulary consists of about 8 words, …. and he misspells them …

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Stop boring me troll.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Lear to read with comprehension, moron. Here’s a quote from your own link:

            “The alternate calculation, which factors in taxes, noncash benefits and day-to-day costs such as child care, means that California has nearly 2.8 million more poor people than the official poverty rate shows” (emphasis added)

            And here’s another:

            “While more than a dozen states had a larger share of poor people than California did under the official rate, the alternate rate put California at the top of the list, followed by the District of Columbia. Under the official rate, California was tied for 14th place, with
            Louisiana topping the list, followed by Mississippi.”
            (emphasis added)

            Using ‘alternate calculations’ we could probably make ANY state look the poorest on paper. For those of us who are afflicted with a terminal case of dumb (like you), taking a simple drive through both states would tell you all you need to know. I’ll stick with the official rate — you can spend your bigoted hours searching for alternates.

          • lookout1 says:

            The US CENSUS is the one who is using that calculation .. not some random moron like yourself

            Why do they use it? .. its a MORE ACCURATE reflection , because of difference between cost of living of states..

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Yes, of course — the ALTERNATE calculation is the more accurate one but not the OFFICIAL one because, um, … well just what was the reason it’s not the official number?

            Liar.

          • lookout1 says:

            Actually it is OFFICIAL

            http://www.census.gov/hhes/povmeas/methodology/supplemental/overview.html

            Try living on 50k in NYC vs 50k in a small town .. want to guess who will live better

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Is that so? So why did your own reference say otherwise? I cut & pasted from YOUR reference, so stop your ridiculous lying.

            Stupid redneck.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Awww…lookouts raisins are squeezing his pea brain. No….YOU look up which states in the US have the highest welfare recipients…RED RED RED RED…the only blue state in the top 10 of highest welfare recipients is Maine and that’s because northern Maine is CON territory. Eat shit and die you lump of cow turd.

            Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia…all in the top ten…try again jackass.

          • lookout1 says:

            Um a state can be red and have welfare recipients…We call them democrats

            2012 exit polls
            http://www.cbsnews.com/election-results-2012/exit.shtml?state=US&race=P&jurisdiction=0&party=G

            Under $30,000 (20%)Obama 63% Romney 35%$
            Thats the WELAFRE VOTER CLASS.. period.

            President Obama won voters earning less than 30k by 63-35 percent, while Romney won voters earning more than 250k by 55-42 percent. Romney won every income group making more than 50 000 dollars. If you are a Democrat residing in the “reality based community”, which of these two groups do you think is more likely to receive welfare?

            Another question asked “Do you work full time?” Obama won the group saying “no” 53-45 percent, while tying full-time workers 49-49 percent.

            Reuters exit polls have some additional data on voting patterns by work-status. Obama won the “Currently Unemployed” by 58-40 percent. Among the group that doesn’t work, Romney won the retired by a 57-43 margin

            The CBO has an interesting report which shows how much federal taxes households with different income on average pay and how much they receive back in the form of transfers. The data is for the year of 2009 and includes payroll taxes. The report doesn’t include local taxes (which are roughly proportional to federal taxes), and more importantly doesn’t report the value of government services such as education and healthcare. It therefore likely underestimates how much the poor get in total. Nevertheless the results are illustrative. The income groups are not identical to exit polls, but fairly close, and sufficient for a rough comparison.

            Households making less than around 30k received $890 billion more in transfers than they paid in in taxes. Voters earning less than 30k voted for Obama with a 63-35 percent margin.

            Households making between 30k-50k paid in $60 billion less in federal taxes than they received in transfers. Obama won this range by a 57-42 percent margin.

            Households making 50k-100k paid in +$410 billion more than they received. Romney won voters making this range by a 52-46 percent margin.

            Households making between 100k-350k paid in +$480 billion in taxes than they received in transfers. Here the voting categories don’t correspond as well, but Romney won voters making between 100k-250k by a 54-44 percent margin.

            Households in the infamous one percent, making more than 350k, paid in +$390 billion more in taxes than they got in transfers. Again the categories do not perfectly align, but Romney won voters making more than 250k by a 55-42 percent margin.

            It would be great if an economist calculated exactly how much Republican and Democrat voters pay in in taxes and receive from the government. Until someone does, we can make a best-guess estimate. Looking at the distribution of income as a reasonable proxy, we find that Republicans earn more than Democrats and that high-income earners pay in more net than low-income earners (which is the whole point of a welfare state). The welfare state that the Democratic party has constructed is designed to redistribute from high income earners who generally lean right to lower income earners who generallylean left. This is not surprising, but rather the classical pattern we observe in developed countrie

            Again you are the moocher party..

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Obama’s 63% got your ass in a sling doesn’t it? Did you think Americans who were fully aware of you corrupt Middle Aged asshats dumping the Sept. 2008 Financial Meltdown on us was going to get you Romney? Shows what jerks some of you righties are. So..how’s that membership in Libertarian Dipshits Inc. workin’ for ya?

            By the way, people in blue states don’t get out of bed at 10 AM and we don’t close our businesses at noon because it’s too hot.

            Your problem is your lazy red ass. You want blue states to haul ass out of bed every day at 5 AM, drive an hour to our jobs and then hand your befrigged backward states all the tax dollars.

            By virtue all of the number of red states vs. blue…You red state hicks show your “ignernce” and dependency on blue state federal taxes. Your prisions are overloaded, your Virginia military industrialists can’t live without war profits and your MO, KY, NC and GA gun manufacturers glut the blue states with their weapons. Yet, it’s your REDs who commit the most mass murders and are the biggest meth sellers in the back seats of cars.

            Grow up and stop laying with yourself. That’s not a profitable business..not even for a blockhead like you.

          • lookout1 says:

            Since the polls have shown for the last 40 years .. welfare voters LOVE democrats, you now have gone from denying being the moocher party to being proud of it… !!

            Democrats sure love them some poor people.. they make them by the millions.. and keep them there

            Again .. as the polls show .. the GOP is better off than democrat voters… so i guess those lazy people are just smarter at making money and you democrats are simply too stupid to figure it out

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Confuscious say “man with head like a pig, should not oink too loud.”

            Maybe the reason your Republicans don’t get elected is because their reputations precede them?

            Nixon..forced to resign. Reagan, 2nd term recession…Bush ’41 one termer with a recession. Bush’ ’43 of the Harvard MBA, 2nd term recession AND Sept. 2008 Financial Meltdown.

            As for welfare, let’s talk about that $14 billion in welfare Big Oil got this year from taxpayers. Again..polls you use are BS.

            The GOP flushed itself down the toilet when it demanded taxpayers bail out banks with TARP…set up with NO interest on that loan..funny how Obama’s ARRA turned in a net profit on those loans and record paybacks..Two of the TARP loans still remain unpaid.

            You don’t know BS when you wallow in it. Stop trying to play Mr. Genius. Your posts prove otherwise.

            By the way, I was a Republican for 33 years. You can thank Bush for sending me in the other direction.

            My favorite president was Teddy Roosevelt..one your own GOP hated. My other favorite was Eisenhower, another your GOP fought against and who warned the US of “military industrialists” in his final speech.

            Try getting an education Joi Boi.

          • lookout1 says:

            Your Obama recovery is so bad.. after 6 years in .. many people cant tell the difference between the Obama Recovery and the Bush Recession…

            So keep bragging on how well the country is doing

            As for the gop dying off…. with 28+ governorship.. complete control of many state legislatures, control of the house..and probably control of the senate … we are COLLAPSING!!!!

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            DogPatch walls closing in on you insular inbreds? Obama’s recovery is sooooo bad? Really? Checked the Wall Street stats lately? Checked the job growth lately?

            You are brain dead pallie. A man like you only knows to haul out his guns to compensate for the raisins in your jeans.

            The GOP is THE most hated and not just by Democrats. By their own.

            They sequestered, threatened a second Republican Shutdown under a GOP Speaker of the House and its own Tundra Tootsie bitched when Alaska lost over $2 Billion when the GOP shut the government down and sequestered. Why? The Alaskan fishing industry couldn’t get the shut down government to release fishing permits.

            So..ASSboy..tell us…do you eat hate for breakfast? Or does McMommy forget to change your Pampers? An Assboy like you ought to realize your GOP is destructive when it put 8 million out of work in just 4 years from 2004 to 2008..Read you DOL.gov reports…YOUR GOP president with his hoochy coochy Harvard MBA and he didn’t see the Sept. 2008 Financial Meltdown coming?

            You are just another of the angry middle aged ASSboys who sit around all day bitching when you should be out working your assboy asses off.

            Time for you to grow up little man. No one is going to make their life harder so yours can be easier. No one is going to bust butt so you DogPatch freeloading loafers can enjoy your lives while the rest of us work ourselves to death.

            I’m not going to allow any big mouth, Assboy like you to dare and tell me about the GOP…I was a Republican woman for 33 years. I left when I realized in 2004 that men like you are corrupt to the marrow.

          • lookout1 says:

            Tell the Unemployed how well the stock market is doing … i bet they are ecstatic..

            The economy has done so well people have LOST 2k+ in wages during the ‘recovery’

            12 Million dropped out of the work force
            Food Stamps and Poverty Rolls exploded

            And all explains why people think the economy sucks

            HUFFINGTON POST…A FAR LEFT SITE !

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/06/jobs-lost-recession-recovered_n_5459688.html

            …Unfortunately, we have a ready replacement for the Scariest Chart Ever, which shows the job market is still in a deep, deep hole. It’s from the Economic Policy Institute, a think tank focused on labor issues. The EPI estimates that, in order to keep up with population growth, we should really have 7 million more people working today than we do:

            In other words, the economy and job market have been growing for the past five years, but not nearly fast enough to give everybody a job that needs one. Discouraged after years of not being able to find work, people have slinked off to the sidelines and given up trying to find a job, resulting in millions of people not being counted in the official unemployment numbers. If these people came back, the unemployment rate would be 9.7 percent instead of 6.3 percent:

            BTW Wall street is doing well because the Fed was printing 80 BILLION a month ..

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            I also posted that job numbers are up in nearly every state. How about you stop acting like you are 6 and start acting like a grown up? Or isn’t maturity allowed in your Bohica (Bend Over Here it Comes Again) state? The job marker WAS in a deep hole. Are you a moron or what? From 2004 to 2008, 8 million Americans lost their jobs thanks to you and your BS GOP.

            Who the hell are you trying to kid Mr. Wusshood? It’s all there in black at white at the government site and has been since YOUR GOP president handed out billions to corporations who took our tax dollars and allowed it to create jobs offshore.

            You are an idiot. I can understand DogPatch not wanting Lil Abner’s and Daisy Maes to ever get an education. But how the hell do you miss what’s as plain as the mole on your dumb ass?

            You are a jealous, insecure you asshat who hates anything and everything this president does. Oh really? And do you mouths of the south and midwest think you’d have shoved Truman or FDR into a corner? Or, worse Teddy Roosevelt?

            The Plantation days are over. You sharecropper freeloaders need to get your asses busy and work. Stop feeding at the federal trough. You have state taxes? Use THAT revenue before you go feeding at the federal trough.

          • lookout1 says:

            When More People Leave the workforce than got jobs you are STILL in a hole and going backwards

            When The Population WorkForce is growing faster than job creation you are in a hole

            The huffington post , a far left rag has a post on how bad Obamas economy is.. and you ignore it

            The Fact that 8 Million people lost jobs means the Economy should be ROARING BACK …
            Its the worst recovery in 70+ years..

            http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/workpaper/2012/wp1214.pdf

            If obama simply had an AVERAGE recovery .. gdp would be 2 TRILLION higher.. and millions more would be working… again thats simply AVERAGE .. not great

            Sorry that math is too hard for democrat twits .

            BTW the Plantation days are over because of the GOP.. not because of the party of the KKK

            you cant defend the numbers so all you can do is yell “RACIST”…. the calling card of a democrat..

            Your card is worn out; and has no effect on me… im sure the two black foster kids i had would be shocked to know i was racist…

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Let me see if I’ve got this right, in your pathetic need to be the only correct mouth on the planet, you think that what took one president 8 years to destroy, should in 6 years be recouped? Try again.

            Your mind is totally focused on being “right.” I agree..you are …too too too far right.

            How long did it take FDR to get the 3 million who lost jobs in the Great Depression back into paying jobs?

            Now, open that narrow mind and think about HOW FDR and the government created new jobs…something you and your bully bois of the right absolutely refused to allow President Obama to do.

            Get a clue. Men back in the 30s who were jobless thanked God for FDR who didn’t listen to narrow minded, money hungry Republicans who were the cause of the Great Depression by refusing to pay closer attention to what Wall Street speculators were doing since Warren Harding, a Republican president, allowed them the latitude to do as they pleased.

            Now, do you want to tell why any US corporation who earns filthy, obscene profits here in the US should pay NO taxes? Or, why there’s nearly $35 TRILLION sitting in untaxed offshore accounts?

            You can contort facts all you like using your right wing biased sources. But, smart Americans who are fed up having our federal tax dollars spent on GOP states by GOP politicians while they force hardship on the rest of the states, don’t fall for your brand of BS.

            You don’t like facts do you? It was on your boy’s watch that the US nearly fell into another Republican instigated Great Depression.

            How dare you hold THIS president to a double standard you never once imposed on Bush or Cheney or for that matter Reagan?

            Trying to rewrite history to suit a neurotic need to prove how correct your posts are is a ludicrous failure. Give it up.

  8. barry1817 says:

    In California people are now suing Obamacare because of the delays in coverages, the lack of coverage and the bills that they are being forced to pay. (Daily Breeze, page 5, 9/19/14)

    Seems the promises to the public that were made don’t hit the reality of the hard cold facts.

    And as to affordable, since the government has no money save that it gets from taxes, where do people think subsidizes come from, the Obama money fairy?????????

    • elw says:

      You are making things up.

      • barry1817 says:

        and you show that you are too lazy to go to the cite, and deal with the issue presented, instead choosing to ignore and attack another person, when your position is tenuous at best, and shows a lack of intellectual honesty that is a trademark of libs, that spout talking points instead of dealing with issues presented

        • elw says:

          You just proved my point, you have no idea if I went to your source or not. Responding to your comment is not ignoring you. Like I said you are making stuff up.

          • barry1817 says:

            You could not have gone to the source and then said I am making it up, when I cited what was published in legitimate news sources.

            You could have argued that the stories were wrong, but you can’t basically call a person a liar for citing sources , but then you must be a liberal, where facts to libs are like Kryptonite to superman and port to muslims

          • elw says:

            Your source is joke, no date or link. Your reasoning is not much better. Yes you can tell a person he making things up especially when he sites one source that is a newspaper that no one can find.

          • barry1817 says:

            I cited Daily Breeze, Fri. Sept 19, 2014, page 5, and the Ohio teachers was cited

            http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/09/18/ohio-teachers-teachers-threaten-to-strike-over-being-forced-into-obamacare-exchanges.

            so your comment is either a person that isn’t interested in anything that shows problems that you won’t acknowledge, or finding these with the cites is behind your acumen.

            In either case your comments don’t address the stories I cited, and your personal attack comments show a person that is incapable of dealing with anything save lib talking points.

            But no problem if you like your plan you can keep it, and your costs will go down. That is called lying to the public.

          • barry1817 says:

            and funny a simple google search reveals the story as well, so I guess you don’t have that ability either.

          • elw says:

            And of course, your link leads no where. So who is it that has the problem?

          • barry1817 says:

            I cited a newspaper, and if you haven’t realized yet, you can go to their web page.

            As to the other cite, if you don’t like or doesn’t work for you, try googling Ohio teachers to strike over healthcare.

            But you are being intellectually dishonest if you don’t go and discuss the articles that are in the common purview and act the computer illiterate

          • elw says:

            Barry really, “Ohio teachers to strike over healthcare.” Now what does that have to do with “In California people are now suing Obamacare because of the delays in coverages.” Do you even read what you write? Talk about intellectually dishonest, actually you can leave the intellectually out.

          • barry1817 says:

            The story was that OBAMACARE is not as bad as predicted.

            So a story in Ohio and a story in Ca. shows two states that are having problems that contradict the premise

            But that would be over your head as in your attempt to personally attack another you can’t take the time to read what is said, or understand it,

            But then discussing this issue with a 5 year old gets better results than dealing with you and fellow libs on this site.

    • WhutHeSaid says:

      Yes, we all get it: You are a bigoted redneck goober, the President is black and more successful that you are, and you have a limited number of marbles rolling around upstairs. Who do you think pays when uninsured people go to the ER and run up a bill that’s 1,000% more than if they are insured? Santa Goober? We all do, you dolt — including YOU.

      • barry1817 says:

        and you cant deal with the facts as presented so your project your racism and bigotry onto others.

        Thus you are nothing more than a parrot for liberal talking points, and since you didn’t go to the article published in the paper, and chose a personal attack, you have shown that you and your posts are not relevant to any future discussion

        • WhutHeSaid says:

          You bigots just don’t learn — do you? The PPACA is the law. It’s over — a done deal. You can whine all you want. Obamacare will still be the law and Obama will still be black.

          Of course you won’t discuss it, and I’m not interested in debating bigots. You have nothing meaningful to say. Americans are getting tired of all of the KKK refugees (Tea Party) whining and sniveling constantly. Go bore your bigot-friends — if you have any.

          • barry1817 says:

            so is Citizens united, but that doesn’t stop liberals from being situationally and ethically challenged.

            And you are the one that projects your bigotry on others and said nothing but used personal attacks as your logic for trying to defend the indefensible.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Everyone here knows a bigot when they see one, and here you are. No reason to defend anything when talking to bigots, because by nature they are too mentally defective to understand anyway. If you were smart enough to understand you wouldn’t be a bigot.

            Go bore somebody else, goober.

          • barry1817 says:

            once more you can’t discuss the topic raised, but resort to name calling, projecting your own bigotry onto others,

            so take your name calling and go back to the hole you climbed out of, and there will be no more responses to what you right, because you haveand your posts have become irrelevant to civil discourse

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            I can discuss the topic raised, but today I just feel like insulting bigots. When you start calling the President names rather than present some type of point, you have loudly telegraphed that you are a bigot and it won’t matter if anyone disproves your arguments or not. Bigots don’t respect logic, they respect hate.

  9. Brabado says:

    The ObamaCare is only a “tool” thrown to the American uninformed to draw the Nation into a system that it was never intended to work as promised by Obama but, instead, to bankrupt all the Health Insurance Industry throughout our e Nation so that GovernmentCare would end up controlling all our lives…
    And then, based on your religion, party affiliation, or political ideas, Obama will tell you “IF you will receive ObamaCare, or just be left to die without it!

    Never would I have believed how naive and innocent the American people could be…whenever someone sells them “miracle snake oil”!

    MAY GOD END THE OBAMA NIGHTMARE VERY SOON AND HELP US RESCUE OUR NATION FROM LIBERAL SOCIALISTS!

    Semper Fidelis

    • FT66 says:

      I admire your less knowlegeable on “ACA”. Why can’t you take a little bit of time to educate yourself on the entire Programme? Exploding for the sake of doing it, doesn’t help you at all!

    • drdroad says:

      Wow, that’s interesting. Millions of people have signed up new policies with private insurers, people who didn’t have health insurance before, and this is going to bankrupt the Health Insurance Industry? I guess this is why the Private Health Insurance Industry in whole was always supporting ACA. Good logic Brabado. Think much?

      • johnleehooker says:

        McKinsey study finds 74% of enrollees were PREVIOUSLY COVERED

        http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/05/10/new-mckinsey-survey-74-of-obamacare-sign-ups-were-previously-insured/

        btw, my bronze plan premium up 80% for coverage I will NEVER USE: maternity, ob/gyn, pre-natal, pediatric dental…I’m a male

        • WhutHeSaid says:

          The American people don’t mind if you do whatever you want, just as long as it’s also what you are told. When people are either too ignorant to understand the economics, too bigoted to care, or both, then the majority passes laws that compel them to behave responsibly. The PPACA is the law — get over it.

          • johnleehooker says:

            Look, I’m fine if you want this POS insurance…just leave me out of your delusional shi**

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            You’ll follow the law and that’s that. Got it?

          • johnleehooker says:

            yep, it’s the “law of the land” until you fers don’t like it and then not so much…you hypocrite leech

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Jest shut yer yap and go out and get a job fer once, yew freeloadin’ goober.

          • johnleehooker says:

            ah yes, wisdom of the idiots…don’t need a job as I had enough to bail at 50…selling everything and moving to BZ…sadly ancestors arrive 400+ years ago…will continue their adventure…goood fing luck

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            What’s this — a vile and despicable European anchor-bigot preparing to self-deport? Well, please allow me to congratulate you on finally doing something good for America. I salute you.

            Bye-bye now.

      • Brabado says:

        D, sorry to see that you are just another model citizen that believes everything that Obama throws at you, without much thinking behind it… Yes, Millions have signed the ObamaCare fiasco but, that does not mean they are going to receive any treatment, any time soon.
        D, when you have some time, try to think “outside the box”. Obamacare has nothing to do with HealthCare but with Controlling the Population and how they think and behave.
        Next, he will go after Food Distribution Channels…
        Hope you can put your arms around the above fact.
        MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA AND PROVIDE IT WITH REAL LEADERS!
        Semper Fidelis

        • WhutHeSaid says:

          And stop voting yourself up, you simpering, sniveling, cowardly bigot.

          • joe schmo says:

            Nothing to inject….as usual….Liberal drivel…… Why not include some factual information for a change. Of course, we know that is way beyond your capabilities.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            I’ve already made you look like the foolish Koch whore that you are on several occasions, so where are your ‘facts’? That’s what I thought.

          • Brabado says:

            W:
            Glad it caught you eye…
            Were you able to put you mind around the concept, or not?
            Just wondering!
            Semper Fidelis

        • drdroad says:

          Well, for sure, that is REALLY outside the box! WAY outside. Be sure and tell me everyone you vote for so I can steer clear!

          • Brabado says:

            D:
            Glad you did try to put your arms around the concept… now you know why GOD gave us a Brain, but if you don’t use it, you lose it…
            Stay well my friend. Always happy to help!
            Semper Fidelis

      • Brabado says:

        Believing, blindly in ObamaCare’s propaganda is not going to provide you any HealthCare…. Million’s have signed, thousands have dropped the plan, or not paid their premium, and just a handful are receiving any treatment…
        Is this what you call a success? ObamaCare is and will always be a Political Weapon to control our citizens, and nothing else.
        Try to think “outside the box” and put your arms around the real objective of the programme.
        GOD ALWAYS ALLOWS FOR U TURNS…
        Semper Fidelis

    • Sand_Cat says:

      Yes, you’ve read the president’s mind, as all good paranoids can do, and you know all about his secret plots and fervent wishes to destroy the country. And please try to restrain yourself from corrupting the Marine Corp’s motto by tacking it on to your malice and ignorance. We all know you’d prefer “Semper disastrous” for the president and all his supporters.

      • Brabado says:

        SandCat, I know you are an Obama Groopy, who finds nothing wrong with the Worst President – even worst than Jimmy Carter – that is throwing our Nation to the Dogs….
        SC, are you unemployed or, know someone who is?
        The FACT about the Obama Regime disaster proves every observation I have made about it… Do not, repeat, Do Not have to restrain myself…

        • WhutHeSaid says:

          Dumbass. Please learn to spell the words ‘groupie’ and ‘proof’ before you try taking on Sand_Cat.

          Being in ‘harms way’ is the JOB of a soldier — didn’t you know this? You may try to insinuate that you are a Marine ‘Semper Fi’, but you either aren’t or you are the most insubordinate and worthless Marine ever.

          • Brabado says:

            W:
            Happy to see you felled back on the spelling but chose to ignore the concept…
            I figured that much. Great going…
            Semper Fidelis

        • idamag says:

          You misspelled groupie

        • Sand_Cat says:

          I’m far from an Obama [I believe the correct spelling is] “groupie,” which if you were dealing in reality at all, you might have noticed.
          And just who was it who elected to set our troops up as targets? Why, I believe it was one of our worst presidents, but you seem to be confused about the name, as well as about a lot of other things.
          Of course, you couldn’t pass up the presumption so common to right-wing lunatics that all the opposition is unemployed.
          And no, I don’t have any “proves” to back up my claims, because “prove” is not a noun. In fact, I haven’t any “proofs” that would sway an invincible bonehead such as you in the slightest, either.
          Semper moronic!

    • Mikey7a says:

      Yes, we are brothers Brabado, Semper Fi, but just as I would my blood brothers, I must say to you, get some help please, before you go completely over the edge of sanity. I pray I’m not too late!

      • Brabado says:

        Dear fellow M:
        Every program/law that Obama has put forth so far, has a false trap built in it… He will tell the Nation what they want to hear but, I.e. keep your doctor, keep you plan, but will do the entire opposite to complete his Agenda a/k/a TOTAL C O N T R O L OF the Population – a very known, a proben & very very successful tactic used by the Liberal Communists, for many, many years… In other words, you control Nation’s food and their health care, and you can do anything you want with to the people.
        M, you must not stop at the surface of any of Obama’s actions/plans etc but, you must look beyond what is been presented to you…
        Can you trust someone whose Regime stands on lies, cover-ups, misinformation, ignoring the U.S. Constitution, mortgaging the Country to feel the pockets of his cronies and political donors’ corporations while is breaking the Law by using Executive Powers to go around and ignore the Law of the Land and the U.S. Congress?
        I believe you have to do a lot of homework, before we meet again…
        MAY GOD KEEP OUR TROOPS OUT OF HARM’S WAY BECASUE OBAMA WON’T
        Semper Fidelis

  10. elw says:

    Yes, no matter what you read on blogs about the ACA, it is working. It will continue to work and expand and change as the need arrives. Much like Medicare it will become a permanent part of the complicated Medical system we have and will become untouchable. I say good job President Obama, against all odds, with a Congress that puts road blocks in front of everything you do you have accomplished more than any President since1964 for the people of this Country. The opponents of the ACA have lost they know it but pretend they have not and continue cry and complain like the poor loser they are.

    • johnleehooker says:

      tell me again why I had to lose my plan…you know the one I CHOSE and paid for so that your ilk could get some free stuff?

      • elw says:

        Because you had a plan that no longer met regulations. It happened to me often when I bought my own health coverage in the individual market pre-ACA. You will just have to live it, just like I did. Where is your proof that I get “free stuff.” I know your type, you just like to make things up and doesn’t cares if it true or not

        • midway54 says:

          The so-called free stuff is the rot that the plutocrats and their stooges and propagandists in our Gilded Age II Plutocracy circulate to the mentally vulnerable, bereft of critical thought and methods of research around the Country. The best free stuff is found in corporate welfare consisting of loopholes and generous subsidies, not to mention the obscene tax cuts for the one-percenters and even the one tenth of one percent of the plutocrats. All of this plutocratic/corporate free stuff is earned on the backs of average Americans most of whom are struggling to survive and too many of whom are buying into this outrageous nonsense and spreading it mindlessly to others, as can be seen right here in the posts on these NM threads. As has often been repeated, it is indeed Robin Hood in reverse..

        • johnleehooker says:

          yep, I making shit up…I paid for my plan for over ten years…I was fine with it…now you fing plicks make it illegal and I’m now paying for your shi***t…you’re happy of course…cause you get “free” stuff you leech

          • elw says:

            Yes you make things up alright. I do not know anyone who has kept their plan for 10 years. Health insurance does not work that way, it is an annual contract and a highly regulated business. Even when you moved from one age bracket to another you would have been cancelled because your contract was no longer viable and there are more things the insurer did not want to cover. Insurers cancel policies when there are rule, age and health changes – which happens all the time. Even large Companies have policies cancelled on them more often than that. You have no idea what you are talking about.

          • johnleehooker says:

            you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. IN CA I had the same plan with BC/BS for five years…I simply renewed it through the mail each year. Many times there were NO premium changes.

            I had the same plan in NC through BC/BS for four years…simply checked the “renew” box and continued paying.

            I have had the same plan in NM with Presbyterian for 7 years…simply kept paying premiums until I got the rate premium increase.

            In NC when I hit an actuarial age bracket I simply received a premium increase notice.

            I am a healthy, low cost customer and have NEVER had a policy CANCELLED UNTIL obamacareTAX…thanks to you and your ilk btw.

            Your are either ignorant, a fool or a liar.

          • elw says:

            I worked for health insurers for over 3 decades – I do know what I am talking about. You are making up stories. Especially the one about never having rate increases. They have come every year for decades – no such thing as never getting rate increases.

          • johnleehooker says:

            well, in addition to not knowing what you are talking about, you apparently can’t read very well

            I specifically referred to “premium increase notice” in the post…

            In none of the three states where I’ve had individual plans were there ANNUAL rate increases…simply dide NOT HAPPEN…when I hit actuarial/age benchmarks I DID receive rate increases but NONE of the plans were ever cancelled until you and your ilk brought us obamacare

          • elw says:

            As I said you are making things up.

          • johnleehooker says:

            this is the classic lib/dim/prog mind at work

            1. claim the magical ability to know what my health care plan is, rate and frequency of premium increases.

            2. post manically, like a child who simply won’t shut up

            3. narcissitic view that he/she MUST opine endlessly

            4. then finish up by repeating a groundless assertion…anyone with an opinion other than his/hers is “making things up”…

            and they vote

          • elw says:

            Really? So in C

        • idamag says:

          And we have no proof he lost his plan.

          • elw says:

            In the individual market canceled plans are normal. It is a nonsensical complaint in any regard. So maybe he did lose his plan, but if he did it was not the first time.

          • idamag says:

            Either he made the thing up or he had one of those shady plans that the Government came down on.

          • elw says:

            in another post johnleehooker claimed he never got rate increases during the 7 years he had his policy. He is a story teller who has no idea what he is talking about. He clearly has never bought health insurance and paid for it for an extended time.

    • Econ101lab says:

      You’re hilarious…

      To date, the uninsured population has only declined between 2% and 3%. CBO says that when Disastercare is fully implemented there will still be 30 MILLION uninsured. Wow, fook up the whole health care system and STILL have 30 million uninsured. That’s a winner!

      – The most recent 10-year cost estimate is $1.9 TRILLION, over twice what Obama & Democrats promised.
      – There is no $2500 per family savings as Obama & Democrats promised.
      – The cost curve is not going down as Obama/Democrats promised. First year AVERAGE increase in premiums for the individual/small biz market was 41% across the country.
      – Turns out millions can’t keep our doctors, our hospitals, and the plans we like as Obama/Democrats promised.
      – According to CBO, Disastercare will cost Americans a NET 2.9 million jobs at a time when there are still fewer people working today than when Obama took office.
      – Disastercare is one of the largest tax increases in the history of the country, further depressing the economy.
      – It discourages hiring a 50th employee as that will trigger a company being subject to Disastercare.
      – It encourages turning people into part timers as if an employee works only 29 hours they don’t count as a full time employee.
      – It encourages companies to dump their employees onto the exchanges as the fine for NOT providing insurance is only $2000/employee while buying insurance for an employee is thousands more. And the exchanges are NO bargain.

      – The vast majority of newly insured are on Medicaid which has the same health outcomes as being uninsured and also denies more claims than all other insurers combined.

      Seriously sir, you need to come back from the unicorn farm and take a reality pill.

      • elw says:

        Go peddle those GOP talking point somewhere else. No one is going to fall for them here.

      • Dominick Vila says:

        7.3 million Americans have signed up for Obamacare, and most have healthcare insurance that covers preventive medical care for the first time in their lives. BTW, the 7.3 million exceeds the estimate issued by the Congressional Budget Office which anticipated 6 million during the first year of the program.
        Something that the ACA detractors don’t seem to understand, or understand it but prefer to ignore, is that the ACA is not meant a permanent resource for the people that sign up for it. If an unemployed person, or an employed person working for a company that does not offer healthcare insurance coverage, joins an ACA exchange and gets coverage via the ACA, and that person finds a job with a more generous company a few months or years later, that person would drop out of the ACA, not because it is inadequate or too expensive, but because he/she now has company-provided coverage.
        Regarding the claim that companies are laying off employees because of the ACA, the truth is that companies are hiring, posting record profits, their shareholders are getting higher returns on their investments, and none have been affected by the ACA. Obamacare is not designed to be a substitute to corporate healthcare insurance plans, it is designed to help people who did not have insurance coverage through their employers, or who could not afford an individual plan.
        The idea that doing something that helps our most vulnerable citizens is evil, that spending taxpayers monies helping taxpayers instead of wasting it in places like Iraq, and claiming that doctor and hospitals would not care for patients that choose Obamacare, presumably because they prefer to deal with uninsured people, does not make sense.

        • elw says:

          The sad thing about people like econ101lab is they really do not understand what they are talking about. You wrote such a clear explanation, but it wasted on him/her because he/she will not listen to it. Fifty years from now he/she will be saying the same exact things about the ACA, just like they still do with Medicare.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            And that is the reason the GOP is doing so well politically. The truth, facts, evidence, the records of both parties, and vision mean nothing to those who prefer to form an opinion based on what FOX or Limbaugh tell them. The sad part is that it may be too late by the time they realize they shot themselves in the foot.

          • elw says:

            People in the Red States are beginning to wake up. Have you notice how many of the GOP governors are suddenly embracing the Medicaid expansion (public pressure) and how many of those up for reelection are running behind in the polls. Even Rush is losing backing, a number of his sponsors have left him. The monster (voters) is waking up. Slow I know, but it is happening.

          • idamag says:

            Probably cannot process it or understand it.

          • elw says:

            He does not want to process it.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Please forgive me, but look at it this way. They know exactly what they are saying. Unfortunately, it is just based on their hatred and contempt for anyone different, or that is struggling.

            I often said in the past, that to be a liberal is hard. You have to decide what is right and wrong based on evidence you have gathered.

            On the other hand, being a “conservative” is easy. You just despise anyone that is not exactly like you want them to be, and you blame them for all your ails, and the world’s ails. All the while, you grovel and worship the true abusers because you are too cowardly to fact up to them.

          • elw says:

            I do not completely disagree with you, but there is a big difference when it comes to knowing and understanding what you say. And that doubles when it come to healthcare. Our system is so complicated and is hard for most health professionals to understand let alone the lay public. Some of the claims they make are so foolish and just plain wrong. I completely agree that is easy for them to be wrong because they never look at anything from both sides, even the ones that read – only read the conservative media. They are sheepable

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You are certainly on the right track when you mention the complexity of our health care system. I think a lot of the insurance companies want a complex rule system so they can have an excuse to refuse, stop, curtail, or change your plan of care if it suits them. I think the complexity of the healthcare laws is much more problematic

            For one thing, as a government employee, I work with, and understand, at least the basis, as to why laws in general are so complex. They have to be written airtight. As well, and a contradiction, the writers are often trying to incorporate obscure means to escape from, negate, or avoid the law. I would advance the notion that is one of the reasons we need all money from the wealthy and businesses out of our political processes. Big money is always working to “turn the heads” of our representatives in their favor. As well, that is one reason out tax code is so complex.

            The problem though, with these whining sheeple, is they will have something, or someone new to hate as soon as the last hiccup is laid to rest. They seem to thrive on hate, and they are willing to share it. You are right about about what their reaction will be years from now, and they will have something brand new to fight over as well. Even if they have to make something up themselves.

          • elw says:

            I know the medical system because I had a very long career in it. I started out working in the medical side of Public Health care services and moved into the private sector working directly for several different large medical groups and Health insurers – I specialized in keeping them compliant with their government contracts for their Medicare and Medicaid patients and members. The complication is the result of mixing public and private health care systems. It is a mess and for the private sector it is all about money because without health insurers and government contracts they could never charge the ridicules amounts they do because 99% of us would not be able to pay their bills.

            The bottom line with the cry-baby opponents of the ACA is they lost the war. The ACA will survive long after all of them are too old to get the energy to write on blogs.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I wish more people would listen to you and not go straight into all those fake “facts” they are so fond of spewing. They do it exactly as you have reasoned, because “they lost the war.”

            What disturbs me is the exalted way they see themselves. They stand, in their mind, in God’s stead, and get to decide who lives and who dies. I have had two people I worked with die because of a lack of insurance. One them might have died eventually, but the other was 98% savable. I have had family members, that lacked insurance, suffer and die. I could ramble on for hours.

            Their party would not even talk about this, but made symbolic repeals wasting our money. All the while they could have proposed real improvements. This is only about playing God, and making sure they pay nothing to help anyone, or even save this Nation.

            That is why I see them as murderers. They live a lavish lifestyle, in the richest, freest, greatest Nation the Earth has ever seen, and they spend their lives trying to ensure other humans suffer and die.

          • elw says:

            But in the long-run they will not win, no matter how much they pretend they have won. In the end they will not matter one way or the other.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I pray not, thank you.

        • plc97477 says:

          There were some “lost” jobs to the aca, but they were people who were holding onto jobs beyond retirement or they didn’t like because they had healthcare through their employer. When the ACA came into play they were able to quit their jobs and find something they liked better.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            You are right. A lot of people who were not yet eligible for MEDICARE were delaying their retirement because of the cost of healthcare insurance, such as COBRA, before the ACA became law. My wife was not eligible for MEDICARE when I retired, and I ended up paying $700 a month for her COBRA insurance. ACA allowed tens of thousands of Americans to retire whenever they wished knowing that affordable healthcare is now available to them via ACA.

        • Econ101lab says:

          Sorry Dominick, but you’re misinterpreting the data. Although it MAY be true 7.3 million signed up on the exchanges (that number is not certain), according to the Kaiser Foundation survey, 74% of those were previously insured and had their policies cancelled by Disastercare. That means that there are only 1.9 million newly insured on the exchanges, well below any CBO estimates. Is it really a good thing when you cancel insurance people liked and force them to buy more expensive insurance on the exchanges?

          And I’m sorry but the fact of the matter is that hiring is being stifled by Disastercare. While profits are up, it’s because companies are doing more with less. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/09/17/take-it-from-a-restaurant-executive-obamacare-is-shifting-workers-into-part-time-jobs/

          I’m not saying doing something for the most vulnerable is evil. I’m saying that Disastercare was a really, really, really stupid way to deal with the problem. All the things it was supposed to fix are being made worse by the law itself…as many predicted prior to it’s passage. Please recall that fully 85% of Americans were happy with their insurance. To fook up the whole healthcare system to deal with the 15% was really, really, really stupid. Fix the 15% and leave the 85% alone.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            According to Kaiser, six out of every ten participants in the ACA were uninsured before the ACA became law. Most of the folks who had insurance before the ACA became available were not :forced” to change poicies. Most took advantage of affordable and effective healthcare coverage and switched to the ACA to save money. That is not a negative, that is a success that, among other things, increases the disposable income of hundreds of thousands of Americans who instead of paying high premiums to insurance companies are now able to buy the things they need or want, thus contributing to our economic recovery.

          • Econ101lab says:

            Incorrect. Here’s the survey.

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/05/10/new-mckinsey-survey-74-of-obamacare-sign-ups-were-previously-insured/

            I read the Kaiser survey you cite. While Kaiser is a big supporter of Disastercare, let’s assume it’s a good faith survey. Its one of three done and the only one that finds a majority of people were uninsured. Both the McKinsey and Rand Corp found the opposite, only 26% and 33% were previously uninsured, respectively.

            However, please look at the other results of the survey you’ve cited:

            – 43% found affordability a problem…even with subsidies.

            – Of the people who were previously insured, 3 times as many said they were harmed by the switch as those who benefitted.

            And now data from the Census Bureau indicates that are actually MORE uninsured in 2014 than in 2013. Oops.

            http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2014/09/22/us-census-bureau-number-of-uninsured-americansincreased-in-2014-n1894992

            People self report being harmed twice as much as being benefitted according to Gallup;
            http://www.gallup.com/poll/167756/number-americans-saying-aca-hurt-inches.aspx

            and prices in the individual market went up in 41 states plus DC by an AVERAGE of 41%.
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analysis-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidies-flow-to-elderly/

            So it’s highly unlikely that “Most took advantage of affordable and effective healthcare coverage and switched to the ACA to save money” as you assert.

            Consider that the vast majority of Americans were happy with their insurance. Disastercare forced the cancellation of almost 7 million policies. These were not happy campers who had to go to the exchanges for more expensive and worse insurance with higher deductibles, higher co-pays, smaller networks, and more out-of-pocket expenses in total.

            Dominick, it just won’t fly. This a bad law. Bad for individual Americans and bad for America.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Yes, there is a lot of contradictory information in most of the surveys available, which is why I rely more on direct experience than what special interests representing both sides want to tell me. When my eldest son decided to start his own company he tried to get health insurance coverage for himself and his family. He was quoted $2,300 a month for the plan he was interested in. A few weeks later, when the ACA exchanges became operational, he applied for comparable

            coverage and got it for $700. He is no longer self-employed and since his new employers offer health insurance he dropped out of the ACA.
            I am sure there are people who are paying more now, even with subsidies, but that depends on what kind of insurance they had before they switched to the ACA.

          • Econ101lab says:

            Please bear in mind that in all likelihood, his “$700” was being heavily subsidized by taxpayers.

            Please explain to me how a law that is hurting over twice as many people as it’s helping is a good law?

          • Dominick Vila says:

            The premium my son was paying for his ACA insurance was not heavily subsidized, at least not directly since he has earned six figure salaries during the last 20 years and earned over the $96K limit for subsidies when he had his own business. He, like thousands of other entrepreneurs, benefited from being able to bargain for more affordable health insurance by joining an exchange, rather than getting it as an individual. That is one of the greatest advantages and benefits derived from the ACA.
            The ACA helps the average American in a number of ways, ranging from the elimination of the pre-existing condition clause, to the elimination of caps, to allowing dependent children to remain in their parent’s policy until age 26, to making it possible for people planning to retire early, but not yet eligible for MEDICARE to do what they wish now that affordable healthcare is available; to helping people who had substandard policies and were a burden to society when they got seriously ill to get comprehensive and affordable insurance, to helping low income people who could not afford high premiums have access to preventive medical care.
            The ACA is not perfect, and changes must be made as we learn more about its strengths and weaknesses, but repeal and going back to the most expensive and most exclusive medical system in the industrialized world is not an option. simply.

          • Econ101lab says:

            First of all, you misunderstand how the exchanges work. No one is buying group plans on the exchanges. Your son is STILL buying an individual plan but at $700 a month odds are he was heavily subsidized for a family plan on an exchange. I don’t know what state you’re in but perhaps you’re in one of the 8 states that actually saw a decline in pricing. 41 states and DC saw large increases. Check and see what happened in your state here:

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analysis-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidies-flow-to-elderly/

            Disastercare doesn’t help the average American. The AVERAGE American who buys insurance in the individual market saw a 41% increase in premiums on the exchanges, not to mention higher co-pays, MUCH higher deductibles, and narrower networks. And you never answered my question, how is it a good law when it hurts twice as many people as it helps?

            All the subsidies are paid for by taxpayers. How is THAT not a burden? ER usage has not gone down, in fact it’s gone up since Disastercare. How is that helping? Medicaid, the program that has the most newly insured, is fully paid for by taxpayers. How is THAT not a burden? You keep saying that affordable health care is now available…for the VAST majority of Americans, it’s simply not. Disastercare has NOT bent the cost curve down.

            And you need to be better informed about conservative alternatives. HR 3400 can be seen here: http://rsc.woodall.house.gov/uploadedfiles/hr_3400_epfa.pdf Needless to say, Harry Reid hasn’t allowed it to even come up for debate in the Senate.

            Additionally Governor Jindal has proposed a plan, Avik Roy has proposed a plan, and the Republican Study Group is coalescing around a plan very similar to Tom Price’s (HR 3400).

            Please recall that over 85% of Americans were happy with their insurance. And it’s primarily gov’t involvement that has driven costs thru the roof.

            http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/government-health-care-inc-the-chart-which-explains-it-all/

            If you really want health care reform, don’t settle for this mess. Support something that can work instead of trying to defend the indefensible.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            My eldest son and I live in Florida.
            The fact that 7.3 million people have joined the ACA tell me that the program is helping a fairly large segment of our population. The most important part for me, as the grandfather of a handicapped child, is that the horrendous pre-existing condition clause was eliminated and that ALL Americans are now able to get insurance coverage regardless of their condition or means.
            I suspect that HR-400 was not taken seriously because of the language introduced in Sections 105 and 106. Believe it or not, I don’t have a problem with that language, and welcome alternatives, not because the ACA is not a positive step forward, but because like all other government programs it has strengths as well as weaknesses. In my opinion, the focus should be on improving the program to make it more affordable, efficient and effective. Repeal is not the way to go, and proposing new legislation designed to undermine the ACA is neither. If there are specific parts of the new legislation that, in your opinion, can be done better, make them known, and explain why they would enhance the new program and help fellow Americans.

          • Econ101lab says:

            Please recall that 7.3 million people weren’t helped by ACA. Depending on the survey you believe, the max is 60% of that number… I tend to believe the other two which tend to agree at about 30% of that number.

            I am glad that your grandchild is being helped. But you STILL haven’t answered my question…is it a good thing that it’s hurting twice as many people as it helps?

            Trying to fix this expensive mess is futile. It CANNOT work…too many conflicting parts, perverse incentives, and regulations.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            I think it is a good thing that we finally have a health program that ends the abuses imposed on those who could not get health insurance because of pre-existing conditions, those who had to sell everything they had to get the coverage they needed because they had reached a “cap”, and I think it is great that people who could not afford to pay high insurance premiums to get preventive medical care can now do so.
            Is the ACA perfect? Not by a long shot. No government program is perfect when it is first deployed. The key is to identify its weaknesses, correct them, or make the changes necessary to make the new program as efficient and effective as possible.

          • Econ101lab says:

            Well Dominick, you’re mind is made up. I hope you’ll remember this discussion when the employer cancellations start going out next month.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            I remember when my former employers cancelled my wife’s health insurance one year after I retired, in spite of the fact that dependent coverage was a contractual obligation for which they were reimbursed by the Federal government during my 40 years at NASA.
            Employers cancelling health insurance, pensions, and benefits they promised to their employees is more common than getting pay raises that keep up with inflation.
            Bear in mind that large corporations, such as Google, MICROSOFT, GE, Lockheed Martin, HONEYWELL and others are not about to cancel their health insurance benefit because of Obamacare or anything else. Prosperous and profitable corporations offer outstanding benefits to attract qualified and experienced employees, and to minimize attrition. Will some fly by night operations cancel coverage to reduce operating costs by encouraging their employees to get coverage through ACA? It would not surprise me, but that is not going to be the norm.

          • Econ101lab says:

            No, the companies aren’t going to cancel it, the gov’t is going to cancel it because it doesn’t meet the gov’t ridiculous and endlessly changing standards. Then the employees will be stuck with something determined by the gov’t…and undoubtedly it will be more expensive. Remember the employer mandate that Obama unilaterally postponed? Those “outstanding” benefits are now going to be taxed as “cadillac plans” and companies will either cancel them and implement something “less outstanding” or pass the tax on to the employees.

            You apparently make all your decisions solely based on what happens to you and your family personally. That’s certainly one way to think.

          • barry1817 says:

            econ101lab, nice post, but you are discussing facts with libs. Reminds of trying to make nice to Dracula by giving him garlic, or a muslim pork

    • lookout1 says:

      Medicare spends 3$ for every 1$ it takes in ..

      So please keep comparing it to medicare..

  11. TMZ1928 says:

    Why should anyone be afraid of Obamacare? We all should be since Obama has re-written the law so many times and is holding up the roll-out of certain provisions until after the November election.

    • Sand_Cat says:

      Who is “we”?
      You mean the paranoid right who do everything they can to hurt both poor people and the president? Yes, they don’t need you to advise them: they’ve been terrified since the beginning that the ACA would work, which is why they’ve done everything possible to destroy of sabotage it.

  12. johnleehooker says:

    ” though the federal government would pay the full costs for the first three years and 90 percent after that..”
    when reading an article in support of obamacareTAX, you can be sure of two things:
    1. the author has not read the act
    2. economic idiocy will be part of the rationale
    HINT: the federal government HAS NO MONEY…it’s all TAX PAYER MONEY…ergo, the federal government PAYS FOR NOTHING…tax payers pay for EVERYTHING

    • WhutHeSaid says:

      Dope. Who do you think pays when uninsured people finally go to the ER, which costs 1,000% more than if they had health insurance? We ALL do, you moron. You’re going to pay one way or the other, so get a clue. The PPACA is the law — get over it.

      • lookout1 says:

        I suggest you get to the ER pronto.. as you have brain damage

        Medicaid people go the ER MORE often than the uninsured..

        • WhutHeSaid says:

          You really should get out of the trailer park more often. Of course people who have long been without insurance are going to increase their visits when they suddenly become insured — duh. Does this surprise you?

          When people have insurance they seek treatment earlier, before the problem becomes critical. A short term blip caused by a recent change that suddenly provides people a chance to seek medical care for long-ignored conditions makes for good bigot-news (because the President is black, of course), but doesn’t really surprise anyone. Never mind the fact that these people don’t have to declare bankruptcy or simply die.

          The PPACA is a social program that is designed to change the way health care is administered in this country, which has long been the most inefficient and costly system in the world. It’s long overdue.

          Yes, yes — we all get it: The President is black, and redneck bigots would oppose a cure for cancer if Obama was responsible for it. But now it’s the law, redneck bigots never had any other alternative, and Americans aren’t going to give up the benefits that they are realizing more of with every passing day.

          Besides complaining about it (because Obama is black, of course), kindly tell us your plan to address the American health care debacle.

          • lookout1 says:

            This goober probably pays for most of your food stamps….

            Seems the party off the kkk has to always bring up skin color…

            Sorry to pop your bubble, retarded is retarded..

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Sorry, many redneck bigots before you have tried that one. Everyone knows that redneck goobers are the hands-down champions of freeloading government benefits. Everybody also knows where all of the KKK members went — you aren’t fooling anyone.

            Say, aren’t you one of those vile, despicable, and utterly worthless Tea-Bigots? When I see Tea-Bigots posting, I know that everything is a lie. In fact, you don’t have to even type anything to be lying — a Tea-Bigot’s entire existence is a lie.

            You haven’t popped anyone’s bubble here, goober. Your President is black, you hate it, tough noogies. Nothing new there. Go get a life.

          • lookout1 says:

            The South didn’t turn red until the late 80s..
            30+ years after the civil rights..

            Only ONE senator switched parties…
            All the othesr stayed democrats and ran again and again and again as a racist democrat .. and won ..

            And actually obama is half black hate white

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Listen, dumbass, EVERYONE knows that the vast majority of Southern Democrats fled the party after the Civil Rights Act was enacted. Some did stay, such as Senator Robert Byrd — the longest-serving senator in history. Byrd was not only a KKK member, but he voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

            Byrd later called joining the KKK AND voting against civil rights the worst mistake of his life. He remained a senator because it took many years for racism to become as unacceptable as it is today. It would be impossible for somebody like Byrd to get past a Democratic primary today.

            But your last statement contains a Freudian slip that gives you away: “obama is half black hate white”. You meant to say ‘half’, but your fingers betrayed you and typed what was really on your mind.

          • lookout1 says:

            You are a flat out moron

            ONE SENATOR LEFT … you dypshit ..its a fact… LOOK IT UP

            The south was BLUE until Ronald Regan ..

            The idea that “the Dixiecrats joined the Republicans” is not quite true, as you note. But because of Strom Thurmond it is accepted as a fact. What happened is that the **next** generation (post 1965) of white southern politicians — Newt, Trent Lott, Ashcroft, Cochran, Alexander, etc — joined the GOP.

            So it was really a passing of the torch as the old segregationists retired and were replaced by new young GOP guys. One particularly galling aspect to generalizations about “segregationists became GOP” is that the new GOP South was INTEGRATED for crying out loud, they accepted the Civil Rights revolution. Meanwhile, Jimmy Carter led a group of what would become “New” Democrats like Clinton and Al Gore

            There weren’t many Republicans in the South prior to 1964, but that doesn’t mean the birth of the souther GOP was tied to “white racism.” That said, I am sure there were and are white racist southern GOP. No one would deny that. But it was the southern Democrats who were the party of slavery and, later, segregation. It was George Wallace, not John Tower, who stood in the southern schoolhouse door to block desegregation! The vast majority of Congressional GOP voted FOR the Civil Rights of 1964-65. The vast majority of those opposed to those acts were southern Democrats. Southern Democrats led to infamous filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            As if we needed any more proof that you are a nitwit, here you are with your latest dose of bullshit.

            Nobody claimed that all of the Southern Democratic Senators and Representatives switched parties immediately upon the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964. What WAS said is that “Everyone also knows where the KKK members went…”, That’s a true statement, and the bigots and racists of yesterdays Democratic Party can now be found in the GOP. Racism and bigotry is now rampant in the GOP — not in the Democratic Party.

            You also seem to equate professional politicians with the Republican or Democratic parties. Politicians make up a minute percentage of party’s membership. Even a nitwit should be able to understand that.

            In truth, the South has undergone a transformation from Democrat to Republican over many years beginning before 1964. Nobody who isn’t a fool can dispute that it was primarily the South that supported slavery, and later, racism and opposition to civil rights. That’s not to say that racists were only found in the South — just a majority.

            The net result is that racists and bigots are concentrated in large numbers in the GOP and especially the Tea Party. The very formation of the Tea Party had it’s roots in bigotry, and the Tea Bigots stand for nothing else. That was my point.

          • lookout1 says:

            For 35 years after the Civil rights bill the south Stayed BLUE… still voting to keep in the exact same racists in office..

            Sorry i know you like to lie.. but you can look it up in the congressional record

            Oh and i can get a list of BLACK GOP conservatives republicans love ..
            .

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            So you are saying — I mean lying — that the South voted Democratic until 1999? That’s not true, and it conflicts with your earlier statement that the South turned blue during the Reagan administration.

            For one thing, the South is not monolithic. There are many states that are considered part of the South, and they don’t necessarily march in lock-step. Further, the transition occurred over many years, but it started even before the Civil Rights Act was passed. Even today many Southern states sometimes vote Democratic — as we saw with both Obama Presidential elections.

            In 2008, Obama won Virginia, North Carolina and Florida. In 2012 he won Virginia and Florida. This trend can only increase over time unless the GOP ejects the despicable and worthless Tea-Bigots and adjusts its policies with the growing non-white electorate in mind. You can’t argue with demographics, and the last majority Caucasian generation has already been born.

            Don’t bother with your list of token black conservatives. That’s a bigot’s game and means nothing. Nobody with any common sense — never mind smarts — misses the fact that Republican policies are generally hostile to non-white citizens. Trying to deny this is akin to pissing in the wind, and that’s an activity that you can engage in on your own without any help from me.

            At this point I don’t even know what the point of your argument is, and I doubt you do either. Are you a Tea-Bigot? That would illuminate the issue and end the confusion.

          • lookout1 says:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_South

            BLUE BLUE BLUE BLUE with a smidgen of Red UNTIL REAGAN..

            Seems facts and history are stubbon things..

            Your Racists stayed in power as democrats

            you moron

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            That’s funny — one post back you claimed it was 35 years after the Civil Rights Act. 1964 + 35 = 1999. I don’t recall Reagan being in office in 1999. As far as I can tell the South first turned reliably Republican in 1994 (Reagan wasn’t in office then either), and it was a gradual change over time.

            So you are a liar who isn’t big enough to admit you made a mistake. That’s the hallmark of a Tea-Bigot, so just admit that’s what you are.

          • lookout1 says:

            The States started voted red for presidents around Reagan you TWAT

            ‘Bama never got a GOP senator until 1990s
            Lousiana .. Blue Georgia was DEEP blue until the 2000s , La… the same .. almost ALL Democrat senators..
            The same can be said for Govenorships

            Being a moron.. you wouldnt know there is a difference between Presidential elections and other races..

            I proven to you with historical facts that the south remained deep blue until the Reagan revolution..

            IE the racists stayed in YOUR PARTY

            Thus proving

          • lookout1 says:

            and MORE BLUE BLUE BLUE from democrat racist party .,. almost ALL of the southern states kept electing your racists back into office for DECADES

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/09/08/the-partisan-history-of-every-u-s-senate-seat-in-1-awesome-chart/

            And as i said many states never got a GOP senator until the 1990s you twat..

          • Ed Portela says:

            lookout1: This guy WhutHe is such a dumbass that he thought you said “hate white” when you meant (he thinks) “half white”.
            Poor guy this WhutHe, such a LOSER.

          • idamag says:

            Liar, they turned Republican when Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act.

          • lookout1 says:

            moron …

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/09/08/the-partisan-history-of-every-u-s-senate-seat-in-1-awesome-chart/

            Many of the Southern states never got a GOP senator until the LATE 90s .. some in 2000+

            Most of the southern states still had DEM governors and legislatures until very recently …

            For presidential elections they were reliably blue until Reagan..

            Your moronic logic says the racists went to a party that had a HIGHER voting percentage for the civil rights than the democrats ….(by almost 20 points)

            So in other words the racists stayed with Bull Conner Party and George Wallace kept getting voted in for decades

          • lookout1 says:

            Check your facts once again ..

            1) people on medicaid have no better out comes than those on it

            2) preventative care doesn’t lower costs..

            im not sure if you are a real moron; or play one very well

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Preventative care doesn’t lower costs? I suppose if you wait until death it could be cheaper, otherwise you’ve just proven yourself a moron (as if we needed any more proof).

          • dtgraham says:

            “people on medicaid have no better out comes than those on it.” Huh??

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Do you bother with preventative care. And I think you need to not only check your facts, but you need also to learn how to coherently relate those facts to others.

            1) I assume that you meant: people on medicaid have no better out comes than those without it. BUT, the truth is, people with Medicaid have no better outcomes that people with private insurance. Now, that is true, minus the Faux Noise spin.

            My question then is, do people on Medicaid fair no better than those with no insurance? Does the hospital system, and the local taxpayers fair better when they pay for indigent care? Or is it, you just think poor people should just curl up and die? Stop avoiding, and admit the truth.

            2) Not only is your blurb wrong, but preventative care reduces suffering and adds to life spans. Of course, Teabuggercons believe that only they should have long lives. That in spite of the fact that many of them are on disability, and Medicare, AND Medicaid, themselves.

          • lookout1 says:

            You argued that preventative care saves money.. it does not.. now you change the argument after i prove you are clueless in your statement

            Actually people on medicaid do FAR WORSE than people with no insurance when it comes to surgeries and many time worse than those with PRIVATE insurance..

            Major surgical procedures: A 2010 study of 893,658 major surgical operations performed between 2003 to 2007, published in the Annals of Surgery, found that being on Medicaid was associated with the longest length of stay, the most total hospital costs, and the highest risk of death. Medicaid patients were almost twice as likely to die in the hospital than those with private insurance. By comparison, uninsured patients were about 25% less likely than those with Medicaid to have an “in-hospital death.” Another recent study found similar outcomes for Medicaid patients undergoing trauma surgery.

            Poor outcomes after heart procedures: A 2011 study of 13,573 patients, published in the American Journal of Cardiology, found that people with Medicaid who underwent coronary angioplasty (a procedure to open clogged heart arteries) were 59% more likely to have “major adverse cardiac events,” such as strokes and heart attacks, compared with privately insured patients. Medicaid patients were also more than twice as likely to have a major, subsequent heart attack after angioplasty as were patients who didn’t have any health insurance at all.

            So why do Medicaid patients fare so badly? Payment to providers has been reduced to literally pennies on each dollar of customary charges because of sequential rounds of indiscriminate rate cuts, like those now being pursued in states like New York and Illinois. As a result, doctors often cap how many Medicaid patients they’ll see in their practices. Meanwhile, patients can’t get timely access to routine and specialized medical care.

            The liberal solution to these woes has been to expand Medicaid

            Now go back and change your arguments once again … since you have been proven wrong AGAIN!!!!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I will stay with the facts. I don’t need right-wackjobs to tell me ignorant lies that even a child knows are false. Why would someone with no insurance fare better? I bet the hospital is really interested in giving them better care than the insured.

            So, I am sticking with the truth. Sorry, if your hatred for good makes you want to destroy.

          • lookout1 says:

            i give you studies of over 800k people ..and you simply stick your head up your ass cause you dont like the results

            Primary payer status affects mortality for major surgical operations.
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20647910

            Abstract

            OBJECTIVES:

            Medicaid and Uninsured populations are a significant focus of current healthcare reform. We hypothesized that outcomes following major surgical operations in the United States is dependent on primary payer status.

            METHODS:

            From 2003 to 2007, 893,658 major surgical operations were evaluated using the Nationwide Inpatient Sample (NIS) database: lung resection, esophagectomy, colectomy, pancreatectomy, gastrectomy, abdominal aortic aneurysm repair, hip replacement, and coronary artery bypass. Patients were stratified by primary payer status: Medicare (n = 491,829), Medicaid (n = 40,259), Private Insurance (n = 337,535), and Uninsured (n = 24,035). Multivariate regression models were applied to assess outcomes.

            RESULTS:

            Unadjusted mortality for Medicare (4.4%; odds ratio [OR], 3.51), Medicaid (3.7%; OR, 2.86), and Uninsured (3.2%; OR, 2.51) patient groups were higher compared to Private Insurance groups (1.3%, P < 0.001). Mortality was lowest for Private Insurance patients independent of operation. After controlling for age, gender, income, geographic region, operation, and 30 comorbid conditions, Medicaid payer status was associated with the longest length of stay and highest total costs (P < 0.001). Medicaid (P < 0.001) and Uninsured (P < 0.001) payer status independently conferred the highest adjusted risks of mortality.

            CONCLUSIONS:

            Medicaid and Uninsured payer status confers increased risk-adjusted mortality. Medicaid was further associated with the greatest adjusted length of stay and total costs despite risk factors or operation. These differences serve as an important proxy for larger socioeconomic and health system-related issues that could be targeted to improve surgical outcomes for US Patient

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Your conclusions are total hogwash. I am quite conversant with the article. You are comparing poor people that are minimally insured, against people that HAVE NO SURGERIES AT ALL, until they desperately need them.

            The surgeries of the uninsured only happen when there is a specific life threatening ailment. Medicaid surgeries take place routinely and are of course performed by private practitioners that often do a sloppy job. So, regardless of what you claim, the study does not support you at all.

            You might bother reading what began the study, and what they were really trying to figure out. Instead of just pirating the results for another “Obama bash.”

            Longest stays, and highest costs obviously go together. Private insurance mortality rates prove what I am saying. Well, funded individuals get better care. So, like I said, your pet study does not prove what you are trying to warp it into doing.

            Do you UNDERSTAND what the “objectives” means. They hypothesized this before they started. They knew that poor medical care stemmed from the “primary payer.”

            So, you are easy to debunk. What there research shows, is government funded health care does not perform well because it does NOT PAY WELL.

            Would you like to fund the programs better? Let’s just say we both know that answer regardless of the next lie you tell.

          • lookout1 says:

            Im comparing poor people whe HAVE NO INSURANCE to those on Medicaid..
            Or perhaps all these uninsured are millionaires and billionaires

            You argument is major surguries are done on Medicaid patients for shits and giggles.. even though they pay like crap..

            yeah that makes sense

          • Russell Byrd says:

            YOU COMPARING? You just blew your argument again! It should be THEY are comparing. Of course, your evidence is not what you want it to be, therefore, using it is invalid. Easy logic, that.

            And no, Medicaid patients are not operated on for “lookout1” reasons. But, they do get the medical care that we pay for.

            Face it, your entire argument is contrived, meaningless drivel. Medicaid outcomes being poor is due largely to, guess what? YOU SAID IT, “even though they pay like crap..” EXACTLY TRUE. Just not in the way you want spin it.

            Even with your own testimony, Medicaid would be better if we funded it better. But hey, poor people’s lives are not of as much value as your own.

          • lookout1 says:

            We are spending over 60k per family of three EVERY SINGLE year on poverty programs for the poor.

            It would be easier and cheaper to write a check of 50k for the family and call it a day..

            I know its hard to fathom maybe MORE MONEY ISNT THE ANSWER….

          • Russell Byrd says:

            My mother has a clock that sounds just like you, on the hour, every hour. That is one of the reasons we cannot have civil discussions. You lie, and you think I should agree. Well, WRONG!

            I tell you what, like some other right-tard troll in here claimed he would do, QUIT your job, and go sign up for all those goodies.

            I sure as hell wish I could, but of course, all that stuff doesn’t really exist, does it?

          • lookout1 says:

            So now you are say we dont spend 60k per year on a family of three?

            But you are right … its not free…. the 53% are paying for the other 47%

          • Russell Byrd says:

            No, we don’t. You just can’t seem to read simple English. . . .

            Yeah, you are quite right. That is why when half of those lazy 47% stayed home instead of voting, that your boy Romney won by the biggest landslide in history.

            Er, eh, Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha,
            hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! LMAO!

            Look, 98% of us pay for the top 0.3% to screw us. You either are a member of that top 0.3%, OR you are too stupid to realize you are wasting your vote on someone that is laughing at you. And they are.

          • lookout1 says:

            Moron the top 10% pay almost 70% of the tax burden ..

            Thats Directly from the IRS you ignorant twat.. .. and its only been getting worse…

            How much should they carry .. 80%?? 90% or 100%..

            In 2011, the top 10 percent of taxpayers (with AGIs above $120,000) accounted for 45.4 percent of all AGI and 68.3 percent of all income taxes paid. Taxpayers in the top 5 percent accounted for 33.9 percent of all AGI and 56.5 percent of all income taxes paid. The top 1 percent of all taxpayers accounted for 18.7 percent of all AGI and 35.1 percent of all income taxes paid

          • Russell Byrd says:

            The top 10% make over 75% of the income. THEY SHOULD ACTUALLY BE PAYING MORE!

            As well, try to survive with even an income of 50k for a family in this country. People that make 1000k a year pay the same expenses, and have a whole lot more left over. So, the top 10%, SHOULD PAY 110% OF THE TAXES. Our government would not only be solvent, but would have some reserve left over! Of course, you America haters want to starve our government, or anyone doing right.

          • lookout1 says:

            ACTUALLY THEY DON’T YOU IGNORANT TWAT ..

            The top 10% make about 45% of the income you fn moron..

            That is directly from the IRS … RUN BY OBAMAS CRONIES

            QUOTE:

            In 2011 (latest data from IRS), the top 10 percent of taxpayers (with AGIs above $120,000) accounted for 45.4 percent of all AGI and 68.3 percent of all income taxes paid.

            Just an FYI this dude is paying your welfare

            So based on your fair share rant.. i should be getting get TAX BREAKS

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Like I already said, they should be paying more. THAT is obvious to a normal, morally sound man.

            Anyway, you enjoy an unfair advantage, you should at least pay a premium.

          • lookout1 says:

            You have yet to say how much

            First i proved you are a moron, and they pay WAY more than they make … in fact they pay almost 80% more than they make…

            So your idea of fair is to simply take more and more of their money ..

            Again they pay all almost 70%… how much more should they pay.. ?? 100%??

          • Russell Byrd says:

            First fuckstick, they do not pay that much. We both know you made that up.

            Second, and really hilarious, you claim “they pay almost 80% more than they make…” So if these poor, poor slobs make a cool million a year, they actually pay 1.8 million. Hilarious. ROTFL! at a total self-confirmed fuckstick idiot.

            You really should quit before you hurt yourself with that “lethal” keyboard

          • lookout1 says:

            you are really retarded .. would you like a link to a summary of the IRS report and tax tables you fn moron?

            http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data

            QOUTE:

            In 2011, the top 10 percent of taxpayers (with AGIs above $120,000) accounted for 45.4 percent of all AGI and 68.3 percent of all income taxes paid. Taxpayers in the top 5 percent accounted for 33.9 percent of all AGI and 56.5 percent of all income taxes paid. The top 1 percent of all taxpayers accounted for 18.7 percent of all AGI and 35.1 percent of all income taxes paid.

            and to the IRS
            http://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats-Individual-Income-Tax-Rates-and-Tax-Shares

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You just admitted that you can only tell the same lies and you cannot answer the rebuttal I made. That shit you speak of is just part of the income we are getting screwed out of tax money for.

            AND you cocksucking piece of shit, if you make 18-20 times more than the average person, YOU DAMN WELL SHOULD PAY ALL THE TAXES AND A SURCHARGE TO BOOT.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You just admitted that you can only tell the same lies and you cannot answer the rebuttal I made. That crap you speak of is just part of the income we are getting screwed out of tax money for.

            AND you cocksucking piece of shit, if you make 18-20 times more than the average person, YOU DAMN WELL SHOULD PAY ALL THE TAXES AND A SURCHARGE TO BOOT.

          • lookout1 says:

            Rebuttal? you cant even accept facts presented by the IRS as true…

            you said the top ten 10% should bay more than 70%^ of taxes because that make more than that ..

            Its a flat out lie made by morons like yourself…

            The IRS backs me up .. not greedy jealous idiots like yourself

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Who said anything about what the IRS said. The problem is you take data, and then twist it in a direction that the IRS, for instance, never intended.

            And think about this. You defame the IRS, and you hate the IRS, and you talk about it corruptly belonging to Obama, which it doesn’t, AND then you want to use IRS data to back up your fucked-up argument. I know the data is correct, but your use of that data is ludicrous, and makes you a ludicrous LIAR.

            So, the problem here is not the data, but what you are trying to use it for. And, by the way, I doubt that I need to look at the data you have cited. I am sure that it is amongst the other IRS data that I have seen.

          • lookout1 says:

            So if the IRS in inaccurate or lying with its data , its ANOTHER reason to shrink it.. if its not.. it proves you are a moron..

            Which is it..??

            Again you say the 10% dont pay its fair share… even though the pay WAY more than they make …

            ~45%income… pay ~70% of taxes…

            The problem with retards like yourself ‘fair’ only means MORE..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            NEVER SAID ANYTHING WAS WRONG WITH THE IRS DATA. I AGREED WITH IT. IT’S YOU THAT IS BROKE.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            If a family of four lives just barely on 50k a year, and a shit like you that claims to make 125k a year should live opulently. Which should pay all the taxes.

            In your view, its not you. But, 90% of Americans are tired of you. Without your propaganda mills, few if any Retardicons would be elected.

          • lookout1 says:

            Im really beginning to see why Margaret Sanger loved eugenics so much… i think she would have used you as a prime example ./

          • Russell Byrd says:

            So, you are a eugenics fan. I am not surprised, Herr Hitler. You, you left wing fascist, you.

            Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! What a moron.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You just admitted that you can only tell the same lies and you cannot answer the rebuttal I made. That shit you speak of is just part of the income we are getting screwed out of tax money for.

            As well, you cocksucking piece of shit, if you make 18-20 times more than the average person, YOU DAMN WELL SHOULD PAY ALL THE TAXES AND A SURCHARGE TO BOOT.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You just admitted that you can only tell the same lies and you cannot answer the reply I made. That shit you speak of is just part of the income we are getting screwed out of tax money for.

            AND you cocksucking piece of shit, if you make 18-20 times more than the average person, YOU DAMN WELL SHOULD PAY ALL THE TAXES AND A SURCHARGE TO BOOT.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You know, you are one of the dumbest posters I have ever engaged, and one of the most crazily desperate to get that last word that you cannot possible receive. Yet, if it is going to stroke you out, please proceed.

          • lookout1 says:

            So what does the IRS say the top 10% make… and what they

            Not some left wing site.. the INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE ….

            Maybe im going to some fake IRS site and cant tell

          • Russell Byrd says:

            AGAIN- READ!!!!! At least try. You just admitted that you can only tell the same lies and you cannot
            answer the reply I made. That shit you speak of is just part of the income we are getting screwed out of tax money for.

            AND you cocksucking piece of shit, if you make 18-20 times more than the average person, YOU DAMN WELL SHOULD PAY ALL THE TAXES AND A SURCHARGE TO BOOT.

          • lookout1 says:

            You trully are retarded..

            The top 10% (starting at 120k) make ~45% of income and pay ~70% of taxes

            they pay pay MORE than the make …

            You are literally too stupid for words to describe

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Which, as I have easily explained, is at least the beginning of what it should be.

            However, you try to include those making 120k (the 10%) in a defense for my attack on the 0.3% that pay far less than they should. Even Buffett said his secretary had a higher effective rate than he did. Why? His should be triple what hers is, but it is LESS!

          • lookout1 says:

            the IRS doesn’t keep stats on the top .3% so any numbers you come up with … are from your ass..

            As for buffets secretary .. she makes between 200K and 500K a YEAR .. so her effective rate was about the SAME as buffet because she in the evil 10% .. … her effective rate is probably 15% +

            The effective tax rate of your class.. (lower to middle) is around 2%-5%… or negative.. again from the IRS

            Lastly buffet could easily pay the effective rate that most of the 1% pay… 29% if he took any income.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Oh, but yes they do. And the ultimate is the U.S. Census Bureau.

            You made up Buffet’s secretary’s salary. As well, as far as your lie about Buffett, refer to what HE SAID!

          • lookout1 says:

            Buffet himself declares that he pays a 17.4 percent rate on taxable income. His staff, like Bosanek, pay an average of 34 percent. The IRS publishes detailed tax tables byincome level. The 2009 results show that the average taxpayer paying Buffet’s 17.4 rate earns an adjusted gross income between $100,000 and $200,000. But an average taxpayer in Bosaneck’s rate (after downward adjustment for payroll taxes) earns an adjusted gross income of $200,000 to $500,000. Therefore Buffett must pay Debbie Bosanke a salary well above two hundred thousand.

            Again the IRS is your friend

            oh and show me the tax table for the .03%..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Thanks for supporting my view.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            America experienced its greatest growth in its history, when the rich paid 90%, and had few loopholes.

            Fact kill lies . . that lookout tells.

          • lookout1 says:

            You may want to check out how many people actually paid that.. less than 1000 .. in a county of 200 million+ .. and even then the revenue created was LESS than 18% gdp ..

            also being ignorant of history . the US had a MONOPOLY on industry in the 50s-60s … because of a small tiff called WORLD WAR II…

            So it seems you are advocate a world war… you fascists

          • Russell Byrd says:

            NOW, after denying it, you admit it was true. And of course, we are only talking about the obscenely rich.

            Yes, a worldwide war on LIARS, would probably be very dangerous to you. 🙂

          • lookout1 says:

            when did i deny the tax rate was 90% ..

            I really think you have a brain imbalance.. i said hardly ANY ONE PAID THAT RATE.

            The effect rate overall was actually LOWER then than now for the 1% when Eisenhower left office

          • Russell Byrd says:

            In the very table you posted yourself. AND, in your verbal denial. So, lie if you want, every time you do, I will just remind you that you are a lying fuckstick. Fair?

            And, you are a lying fuckstick. You claim one thing, and then you claim something different. Do you think I will apologize for calling out your deceit, fuckstick?

          • lookout1 says:

            If No one pays the rate .. its irrelevant you fucking moron

            Go ahead and make the tax rate 100000000000% for people who have 95 Chromosomes… see how much you get

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I don’t care if you pay 100%. Seems just in light of you being such a racist dick.

            BUT, thank God, you cannot reproduce!

          • lookout1 says:

            got 2 kids.. who will learn being a historian means food stamps for life.. unless they live off of taxes

          • Russell Byrd says:

            They will learn that screwing over their coworkers and neighbors will be the road to success.

            Then of course, like I said, you are too sold on money as being a gauge of success. Coupled with your hatred means you make less than half what you claim. And I am sure that even if you told the truth, just that once, that you make no more than I do. So, what is your point.

            There is more to life than a dollar. There are homeless people that are a lot happier than you.

            Buy twice the house you could afford, and now you are a warrior against the poor to assuage your own folly?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I will make you a challenge on that. Why don’t you tell them how good people live off YOUR taxes, and that it might just be the way to go.

            In fact, why don’t you quit your job for that 63k, or whatever. NO TAXES, and a laidback, easy lifestyle right.

            Yeah, you fuckstick liar.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            And since you like lying about Obama so much. I do find PolitiFact of little real use, because they suffer from the mainstream media”s failing that they have to “balance” every story. That is, if Rethugs tell a bunch of lies, then they have to find some Democrat “lies” to balance it with. That is pure naivete.

          • lookout1 says:

            Liberals often claim that the rich paid a 91% income tax rate during the Eisenhower years, and while it is true that the top marginal rate was 91% from 1954 to 1963 that is not what matters. The important part is how much the rich actually paid.

            Here were the effective individual income tax rates of the 3 very high income AGI groups.

            $200,000-$500,000 group: Tax as Share of Amended AGI (%)

            1953 = 45.9
            1954 = 39.3
            1955 = 36.8
            1956 = 37.4
            1957 = 38.6
            1958 = 36.9
            1959 = 33.8
            1960 = 33.1
            1961 = 31.5

            $500,000-$1,000,000 group: Tax as Share of Amended AGI (%)

            1953 = 46.3
            1954 = 38.7
            1955 = 35.6
            1956 = 36.7
            1957 = 36.6
            1958 = 36.0
            1959 = 32.1
            1960 = 30.8
            1961 = 29.1

            Over $1,000,000 group: Tax as Share of Amended AGI (%)

            1953 = 49.3
            1954 = 38.8
            1955 = 35.8
            1956 = 36.1
            1957 = 40.0
            1958 = 33.1
            1959 = 30.6
            1960 = 31.3
            1961 = 27.2

            SOURCE: William Williams, The Changing Progressivity of the Federal Income Tax, National Tax Journal (1964)

            So the rich really didn’t pay anything close to 91% during the Eisenhower years, and their effective tax rate was steadily reduced.

            DAMN YOU FACTS!!!!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            In 1971, the first year I paid income tax, the top bracket on the long form was 140k. The accrued tax was 100k. I am looking at the form. I still have it.

            Give up on Freitfart. You not only show your dishonesty, but you stupidity as wel.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I have not made one remark about the IRS, or the IRS site, but our problem all along has been you try to make one bit of information prove something it doesn’t.

            One thing is clear, you have a very inferior intellect, but like all your kind, your arrrogant, ignorant self-importance makes you stomp on other people to make a stack of cash. Which, as they say, you can’t take with you. I expect when you finally grow up at 75, you will realize that you missed anything of real value in this world.

          • lookout1 says:

            And thats you problem your ‘sources’ are pulled from your ass..

            you say the top 10% make more than 70% of the income.. the IRS say you are a moron ..

            The IRS is the ABSOLUTE authority on taxes paid.. not msnbc ..

            So irs says you a moron and dont have a fn clue

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Actually, I am using readily available information one can find anywhere. Whether moderate, middle of the road, or even liberal. And that data includes what the IRS has said, based on what they meant.

            Of course, you won’t see or hear any of this, or any truth in general, on Flush Blowjob, or Fake News.

          • lookout1 says:

            Ah now you are interpreting math …
            Interesting ..

            I would love to hear how you interpret the 10% make 45% of income and pay 70% of math..

            I bet you are a common core student..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            But, you hate the IRS, and you defame them regularly. Now you use them as a source for data.

            And if Obama is such a “fascist” dictator, which he is neither, and he corruptly controls the IRS (according to you), don’t you think it is rather stupid to be quoting their data.

            ROTFL! The truth just massacres you shits.

          • lookout1 says:

            So the IRS is changing data to make it look like the the 10% pay way more than their fair share… to prove they dont pay their fair share..

            Do you even take time to think about your logical inconsistencies … i doubt it..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Here is my reason again, simple and unexplained:

            My problem is not with the IRS, or their data, but in your attempt to misuse and mislead by using that data in ways that were not intended.

          • lookout1 says:

            Misuse??
            You and other morons like your self said the reason the top 10% pay 70% (and should pay more) is because they make more than 70% of the income…

            That is a flat out moronic and backed up by the IRS…

            They make ~45% and pay about 70%…

            SO if you want “FAIR SHARE” they should be paying about 4%%

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Which still supports what I have said.

            Why don’t we just make this simple. Set zero tax rate at the mean income for a family of four. Then, set an ascending tax rate on the difference., topping out a 90%. You have plenty of money, and you work a system where you are lucky to be able to screw your neighbors so well.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Yes, they should pay more. No one should be able to use “the system” to make that much, for the amount of, or lack of, effort those people put in.

            And know one with kids making under 50k a year should be paying any taxes at all. Many of those people are, and should be, eligible for SNAP. Our standard of living demands that, and it would be easy to obtain.

          • lookout1 says:

            how much more?? we pay close to 70% of all income taxes now you twat

            I think you are simply jealous you are too stupid to get into the top 10%

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Well fuckstick, if according to you, I make less than you pay in taxes, and you wish to defend those that AVERAGE near 20 times the average salary, then the amount of taxes you pay should be ALL, plus 10%.

          • lookout1 says:

            so the average salary is 6k per year in the US?? may be for you …

            because the 10% starts at 120k per year .. FUCK STICK

          • Russell Byrd says:

            No one under the national average should be paying any taxes if they have a family. The national average reflects an appalling drop in the buying power of the American people since Saint Ronnie Raygun started the destruction of the middle class.

          • lookout1 says:

            Actually the purchasing power has increase since the 70 you twat..

            It is true enough that, when adjusted for inflation using the Consumer Price Index, the average hourly wage of nonsupervisory workers in America has remained about the same. But not just for three decades. The average hourly wage in real dollars has remained largely unchanged from at least 1964—when the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) started reporting it.

            Second, this wage figure ignores the rise over the past few decades in the portion of worker pay taken as (nontaxable) fringe benefits. This is no small matter—health benefits, pensions, paid leave and the rest now amount to an average of almost 31% of total compensation for all civilian workers according to the BLS..

            One underappreciated result of the dramatic fall in the cost (and rise in the quality) of modern “basics” is that, while income inequality might be rising when measured in dollars, it is falling when reckoned in what’s most important—our ability to consume. Before airlines were deregulated, for example, commercial jet travel was a luxury that ordinary Americans seldom enjoyed. Today, air travel for many Americans is as routine as bus travel was during the disco era, thanks to a 50% decline in the real price of airfares since 1980.

            Bill Gates in his private jet flies with more personal space than does Joe Six-Pack when making a similar trip on a commercial jetliner. But unlike his 1970s counterpart, Joe routinely travels the same great distances in roughly the same time as do the world’s wealthiest tycoons.

            What’s true for long-distance travel is also true for food, cars, entertainment, electronics, communications and many other aspects of “consumability.” Today, the quantities and qualities of what ordinary Americans consume are closer to that of rich Americans than they were in decades past. Consider the electronic products that every middle-class teenager can now afford—iPhones, iPads, iPods and laptop computers. They aren’t much inferior to the electronic gadgets now used by the top 1% of American income earners, and often they are exactly the same.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Tell any lie that you want. No one outside of right wing fucksticks will say that, try to prove that, or believe that. DONE!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Try again. I know you are pretty dumb, and have poor comprehension skills in every respect, but why don’t we give it a try. Hmm?

            Well fuckstick, if according to you, I make less than you pay in taxes, and you wish to defend those that AVERAGE near 20 times the average salary, then the amount of taxes you pay should be ALL, plus 10%.

            Hint: There is nothing in my post that says, or suggests an average salary of 6k a year.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            The reason that families that make 45k a year often pay no taxes is simple. Adjusted for inflation, they make what a near impoverished person did 60y ears ago.

          • lookout1 says:

            The average poor family in america lives better than the MIDDLE class in europe.. thats from the 2010 CENSUS ..

            Oh and under obama , democrats have created record number of poor people, welfare check , and food stamp recipients

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Except, your claim is untrue and is based on facts that do not exist. Yes, he cost of living is higher in Europe, and the average wage in most countries is less than the U.S., but there is not the unrelieved, grinding poverty that one sees here.

            Your Bush-Cheney-GreedyBastard crash produced those record numbers, which a decent person could see needed a rise in SNAP, etc. AND fuckstick, there never was any welfare except for pregnant women, and that went out under Clinton. So, fuckstick, your lies are really pathetic.

            A decent man knows that more suffering needs more assistance, not less so you can have some more beer and chips. Fat ass fuckstick.

          • lookout1 says:

            FuckTard:

            “According to the Census’s American Community Survey, the number of households with incomes below the poverty line in 2011 was 16,807,795,” the Senate Budget Committee notes. “If you divide total federal and state spending by the number of households with incomes below the poverty line, the average spending per household in poverty was $61,194 in 2011.”

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Irrelevant, fuckstick.

            Well fuckstick, if according to you, I make less than you pay in taxes, and you wish to defend those that AVERAGE near 20 times the average salary, then the amount of taxes you pay should be ALL, plus 10%. No, 25%, so we will always be solvent.

          • lookout1 says:

            So leftartd math 120k/20== 6k the average income in the US… i got it

            (According to the IRS the 10% start at 120k)

            so i suppose i would be pissed to that you are too dumb to be in the 10% and are stuck flipping buggers

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Try again, fuckstick. I never said anything that would lead anyone with a brain to get those numbers. BUT, you should be paying a much higher percentage that a family of four on 50k a year:

            Irrelevant, fuckstick.

            Well fuckstick, if according to you, I make less than you pay in taxes, and you wish to defend those that
            AVERAGE near 20 times the average salary, then the amount of taxes you pay should be ALL, plus 10%. No, 25%, so we will always be solvent.

          • lookout1 says:

            i know why you are so angry … making low wages… perhaps you should have done better is school . Flipping burgers should not be your end goal for a career .. but hey if its all you can do… Chin up!!

            Rant and rave all you want.. obama could have easily raised taxes on the 10% and didn’t .. he decided to play gold… and Now we have the PERMANENT Obama tax cuts. YAY!!!!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Actually that is where I figured you out, and is one of the reasons I started a little late today. That, and the fact that I actually have a job. So, I spent some time analyzing your posts.

            I have come to the conclusion that you make about half of what you “seem” to suggest. Maybe, your claim that you paid 26k was actually your gross, or maybe net? And your blurb about 6k, that had nothing to do with my statements, is likely the tax you really pay. Of course, a thief and natural liar like you probably do owe more.

          • lookout1 says:

            Yeah .. im a poor and broke and uneducated… i should be a democrat!!!!

            as for the 6k …

            You claimed the top 10% made 20x the average salary.. the 10% start at 120K… do the math you moron

          • Russell Byrd says:

            So. I have you pegged just right! I KNEW IT!

            You can’t even tell that next LIE about all that riches you have. I KNEW YOU WERE A BROKE WHITE RACIST CRACKER PRICK!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Well, in that case, WELCOME brother! We will accept anyone that treats his fellow man with respect.

            And that is the gospel truth this time.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            By the way, your math makes no good sense. No, i know what you are trying to say, but you made a meal of that.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I noticed that you worked hard to steer this into another off-topic line of shit. You wanted it to be about your salary.

            Yet, I have always found that those that want to compare pay checks are never makiing what they think they are worth, are overpaid for what they actually do (which isn’t much), and really don’t make what they even claim to make by about a factor of 3.

            So, are YOU still flipping burgers? Like most loud mouth dickheads, you may be surprised if we ever compared paychecks. You seem awfully worked up about the money. Even if I were flipping burgers, having a good, decent life is more important. Even if you made half what you seem to claim, you would still be a fuckstick that is being eaten by inner insecurities and comtempt for everyone else around you.

            No man may be an island, but you are a very sad, sad pebble in a very vast sea.

            Oh yeah, . . . fuckstick.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Then why does the average family get by with about 13k tops in benefits?

            For the most destitute, this would be quite a bit higher, if you include Medicaid, but that figure you spout, does not reflect where all that money actually goes.

            I guess, of course, that fucksticks like you stand in line to steal part of that money as a public service.

          • lookout1 says:

            Sorry i dont need to stand in line for handouts.. im in the top 10% you hate so much …

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Well, you might be surprised where I stand on the salary scale. The difference is, I am not an arrogant, ignorant, self-important bully like yourself. I think I am worth my money, though I feel blessed and lucky, unlike yourself.

            I feel we work best as a team, not like you do. You are the only one that matters. BUT, I am sure of one thing, when you go to see your superiors, I bet everyone laughs about those two worn-out spots your knees made on the bosses’ carpet. And I bet he even has a special order chair. One with a hole in the back, so you can give him a few kisses while he is relaxing.

            My point here fuckstick, is you have no feeling or see any value in other people. You are just an arrogant, ignorant, over-bearing, egotistical, uneducated bully, that is just as greedy a Midas.

            You know, you should feel lucky to be near the top in the richest, freest, and greatest country Earth has ever seen. But no, you are just looking for the nest person to fuck over.

          • lookout1 says:

            and you wonder why democrats are the welfare voter party .. Hand outs instead of a hand up ..

            If you are so rich this free country allows you willingly to give money to the US Treasury .. my bet is you don’t..

            Like most democrats .. “charity” starts with Uncle Sam taking other peoples money …

            I feel blessed but unlike you .. i didnt require handouts.. i worked up to three jobs at a time and server in the military ..

            See yo in November.. be sure you get your welfare buddies out the vote… oh and dont forget the illegals and the dead… you need all the help you can get..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Yeah, a lot of us have noticed that the GrOPe is the party of Fuck You, and HANDS UP!

            Yes, and I bet we WON’T be seeing you after November.

            And I have thought it through very carefully, and you are too concerned with what I make, and what you claim to make to be anything but a poser. So, let’s just say I do not believe you.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Liberals are a lot more generous than Rumpbuggers. We just don’t flash it around like you fucksticks do. We don’t give a nickel and then claim that the recipient owes us something for it, like you fucksticks. And we pay are taxes, even if reluctantly sometimes, because it is the law, and the right thing to do. Unlike you fucksticks.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            One of the reasons I have lost faith in our veterans, at least some veterans, is everyone owes you too much. Especially, when almost all of you went in because you could not find a job.

            But, what really hurts is, you think you are above the law, all authority, and the Constitution. You are not, fuckstick.

          • lookout1 says:

            OOOO you got me on semantics … they did the comparison you twat .. its what the studies did, that i referenced.. all of them ….

            I love your answer though… Just SPEND MORE MONEY ..

            Why .. hell why don’t you start crapping gold bricks too.. im sure the states that cant afford it will love you

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Can’t you understand, lookout loony, that the inability to buy private insurance is what was being studied in all your cases. AND, that all your supposed problems stem from that fact.

            You fucksticks take every opportunity to lie, and conclude absolutely ludicrous support for the fact that everyone is better off when you have everything.

            And I never proposed spending more. A mind that registers over 90 IQ would have detected an underlying theme in my post called FACT. If we were to fund fully, then the problem goes away.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            One thing I find disturbing is, you do not seem to know the difference between Medicaid and Medicare. Are you exempting Medicare because YOU or one of YOUR loved ones is on it?

          • lookout1 says:

            Um when did i bring up medicare?? I DIDNT ..
            Once HUGE difference between medicare and medicaid… medicaid is Welfare .. Medicare people have paid into it up to 45 years..

            But HELL YES .. give me the money i put into it the last 25 years + 6% interest and let me deal with it on my own .. and ill be exempt .. and stop taking my money for it

            Ill do the same for Social Security as well

            But the Left goes APE SHIT when people want to take care of themselves

          • Russell Byrd says:

            “Lookout,” he can’t read. Aargggh!

            You did make extensive use of the word Medicare, yet, you conveniently failed to link any of the evidence that YOU WERE USING, to your argument.

            Now, the truth is, I POINTED THAT OUT TO YOU. Which right now you demonstrate you could not read and comprehend by words.

            u.

          • lookout1 says:

            It was in reference to the Medicaid question argument.. i suppose if words “red ball: was in there you could deflect on that as well

          • Russell Byrd says:

            NOW, that is DEFLECTION. That has nothing to do with the facts of all those studies that you tried to pervert. Of course, that means you just try to turn everything into a mirror of yourself.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Now, MEDICARE is just about the same. So, are you saying that people have paid up to 45 years for the same miserable outcomes. What is wrong withan a-hole like you.

            Interest rates right now are near zero. Peddle that money in the stock market and wait for the next crash to “adjust” your market for you,

          • lookout1 says:

            Well i AGREE, GOVERMENT RUN CARE SUCKS!!!

            And i bet you want SINGLE PAYER.. fn retard .. just like your daddy

          • Russell Byrd says:

            At least he was not queer like your daddy. Guess you are just an asshole baby, and being queer must be genetic in your family.

            Now pout, whining fuckstick.

            Yes, fuck the capitalists that gouge for profits while we suffer. I firmly believe in a day’s work for a day’s pay. NO capitalist can work for that. The want many lifetimes of pay for mere manipulation and no work.

          • lookout1 says:

            Another moron rant with NO basis in fact.. the average profit margin for health insurance comapanies is in the rage of 5% .,.

            HOLY SHIT THOSE BASTARDS

            YOUR retard Ezra Klien:
            But the insurance industry is one of its least-profitable parts: Its profit margin is at 4.54 percent. Hospitals are also a bit strapped, with an average margin of 3.5 percent.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I responded in kind to you. So, I wonder who first posted, “Another moron rant with NO basis in fact..”

            As far as profits, that is just what they report. That is why GE, etc. never pay any taxes at all, though they take in hundreds of billions a year.

            The balance of your post was similar to your mind. Disordered, confused, non-factual, and disturbed,.

          • lookout1 says:

            Im sure the SEC would love for you to report them .. as its criminal to lie on those quarterly reports..

            See the fact they are nnot in court says you are a moron

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You just told a lie yourself. Do I have to repeat until you actually read and comprehend.

            It is a fact that GE does not pay, and their stock is the gold standard. Venture to guess why?

          • lookout1 says:

            GE is following the LAW you ignorant twit..

            You complain that companies play by the rules..

            fn retard

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I really don’t need to comment about that bit of idiocy. GE is following the LAW that they have paid our elected officials to pass. They have loopholes that even a moron like you could appreciate.

            So, would you like to bet a grand on a little game of coin toss. Heads I WIN, tails YOU LOSE!

            How dumb can one abusive fuckstick violator of the terms of service get? I could not tell anyone about you and get them to believe that there are people as stupid as you.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Hey, I found your photo while you were having a little chat with one of your favorites.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Medicaid is “welfare,” and taking care of people with christian charity is bad, right? You people have a literal war with words. I mean literally a war WITH words. “Welfare” is a buzz word that brings your irrational hatred out.

            Now, fuckstick, you are the one that is making the argument that Medicaid outcomes are worse than no insurance. Which of course, is not what even one of YOUR studies is actually saying. Not one. You are so used to spinning and lying, you cannot even slow down long enough to see your own error and irrelevance.

          • lookout1 says:

            I never heard charity being taken with a gun ..fukstick

            Given you are so generous feel free to adopt 5-6 illegals and pay for all their crap ..

            Nope Cant have that … Democrats are generous with OTHER peoples money ,

          • Russell Byrd says:

            No one is using a gun, fuckstick. You could at least get your own word, but hilariously, YOU CANNOT EVEN SPELL IT.

            And you cannot even keep from going off-topic, from your own off-topic. ROTFL!

          • lookout1 says:

            Really .. try telling the irs you are not paying taxes. because its charity and see if people with GUNS show up your at your door…

            Charity to democrat…. spending other peoples money

          • Russell Byrd says:

            BUT, if you do no charity, and we both know that you don’t, then, by definition, IT ISN’T CHARITY! Duh!

            Actually, i am spending my money. You gave yourself away again, because you think you should not pay taxes, the poor should starve, and MY TAXES should be your profit.

            Well, boo, sux to you.

          • lookout1 says:

            Actually republican give more than democrats shown in every single study…

            I gave a car away this year worth several thousand to charity motors… (see another benefit of the 10%)/…. you?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Bullshit. The only studies that show that are the ones that are done outside of Wally-Worlds. And that is when the public is watching.

            Soros gave only a drop in the bucket compared to Gates and Buffett, BUT he gave more than all the Kockroaches, and the Dultons did in their entirety. LOOK IT UP!

          • lookout1 says:

            Gates and Buffet gave to their own foundation .. admirable.. and ironic since the the they are more effective with their money the Stupid Sam

            But as for studies
            We all know the NYTimes is crap
            http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?source=science20.com&_r=0

            Or

            http://www.science20.com/news_articles/republicans_versus_democrats_why_some_people_give_more_charity-90603

            or

            http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/012712-599290-democrats-like-giving-money-from-others.htm

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Which actually went to charitable work. Unlike the Kochroaches that build propaganda palaces, like the unfortunate exhibit the Smithsonian would dearly love to get rid of, but can’t because guess what? They are short of cash.

          • lookout1 says:

            yeah those cancer patients must think its propaganda..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            While I can understand the dreadful fear and pain, while you actually can’t but only use them to promote another lie, I can easily “win” this one by pointing out that there are over seven million people as examples against your small sample.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            And, far from proving your own points, you actually proved mine:

            Get big money out of our politics altogether. That would reform half the Democrats, and all the Rumpbuggercons. This would have made our elected officials free to create a better ACA.

            Improve the ACA to eliminate the problems. Then your entire point goes away. Yet, you want to make things worse, AND THEN bitch about it.

            And finally, to Hell with your capitalists. Health care IS A RIGHT, in a Nation where it is easily obtained for some. Once again you lie. Not only is 5% a handsome sum for a corporation, you forget about the unbelievably huge salaries for the corporate officiers, and the blue chip stock they all have. Plus, all the perks and freebies, that no one looks at. The problem is not just the CEO’s pay being out of sync with their workers. No, the real problem is all the fat cat shareholders on the board that pull down many times what that CEO makes. SO, SINGE PAYER.

          • lookout1 says:

            want money out of politics SHRINK GOVERNMENT you fn twat

          • Russell Byrd says:

            At least a twat has a use, you woman hating faggot bigot!

            As far as government, like I said, you are not trying to shrink government. You are just redistributing like you thieves always do.

            So, let’s see, you do not answer any of my questions, so you must agree with me. So, you AGREE you are a redistributor.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            SINGLE PAYER!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            This is the greatest Nation on Earth, and the greatest Nation that ever existed. We have far more resources than necessary to provide minimal relief for those in need.

            If you want to be a fascist, move to Iran, or buy you a private island and immigrate.

            America, love it or leave it, baby!

          • lookout1 says:

            You show you chromosome damage again .. its IMPOSSIBLE to have fascism with limited government

            Want look at facism… OBAMACARE… gov controls the who/what/when/where/how/why and how much …

            Given you dont know fascisms socialism are two side of the same coin mean you are more mentally defective than i thought

            How the left thinks NO GOVERNMENT (ie super far right) leads to fascism then anarchy shows your unlimited stupidity

          • Russell Byrd says:

            But you are not actually proposing limited government, nor are you really going to save any money. You just want to rule from your local fascist “Bunds.” As well, you just want to build up the military to incredible strength, so we will have a state of perpetual war. And above all, you want to spend the money on yourselves, while the populace becomes restive enough to burn you all at the stake.

            Unlike you, I believe in charity and kindness. Things Christ taught. I also love my country dearly, unlike yourself, that only want a reflection of your bigotry and hate.

          • lookout1 says:

            You really have to be clear .. does the tea party now want fascism? or anarchy… because every time we try to limit spending you scream ANARCHY !!!!

            To the right of the GOP is tea party … to the right of them .. libertarians… keep going and you get anarchy

            See i suspect you are too stupid to know FASCISM is a left wing Ideology .. Why do you think Mussolini and Hitler were pals…

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Come on, you are just too damn slow. I guess with an IQ equivalent to
            your shoe size, it is hard to be coherent. Oops, you are not coherent
            anyway.

          • lookout1 says:

            Well you are the idiot that keeps bringin up facism .. with no clue where it sitd on the spectrum of government…

            Perhaps a picture would he a retard

            http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vIj4hy_QQ28/TWLk7hOwfUI/AAAAAAAABUk/SXFIvZqoIOs/s1600/03_Correct_View.jpg

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Right-wackjob theory signifying nothing but a veiled attempt to cover up the real purpose which is to mislead.

          • lookout1 says:

            And you have yet to explain in any logical terms how smaller and smaller gov becomes totalitarian

            because YOU CANT! its completely contradictory ..

            moron

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Well, fuckstick, I already did:

            First, you do not really propose smaller government. Just more diversion of monies into the pockets that you unwittingly serve. And you will build up the military to the height of the height of the Third Reich, that you so worship. Then there will be institutionalized wars against mythic enemies that we caused to appear by our earlier aggression. As NOW! Is there such a word as un-half-wittingly? It would describe you.

            Next, as I have already said, you goons expect to exercise total control on the state level via “state’s rights” to impose your will. All without the balancing influence of a central government.

            Two obvious points. Do you think what you want to do will promote a strong, united America, or will lead to the formation of small dictatorships without any national allegiance?

            Do you really think that a nation where you have put all the women “in their place,” i.e. 51%, gotten rid of all the gays, another 3-8%, put blacks back in the ghetto, another 10%, and retrograded the rights of a rapidly growing Hispanic population, i.e. another 15% (we already counted the women for the minority populations), and substract 10% for the liberal males, will leave white under-educated, ignorant, bigoted, racist men in a comfortable situation? And your percentage will continue to fall. Your racist asses will be burger!

            You shits are about 10% of the population, and you vote against the only people that DO care about you. Do you think the Kochroaches do? They are just using you to get their fascist vision of America in place. Seig heil!

            And yes, over 20% of the population self-identifies as liberal. You only win elections from the inaction of the majority.

          • lookout1 says:

            40% identify as conservative . so in actuall it is YOU who have to lie to convince people to vote for you

            as for wars.. i guess obama is a fuckstick as well then . and we agree

          • Russell Byrd says:

            So, you abdicate to the truth of my arithmetic. Thank you.

            One problem with your ideas is the same as the poll that claims we are a christian nation. 60% of those that claim to believe in God do so as much as anything because they have been force fed propaganda, or they do not want to get criticism. BUT, they don’t practice at all.

          • lookout1 says:

            Arithmetic.. liberals are in the MINORITY .. by a large margin

            20% liberal
            40% conservative
            the Rest MODERATE

            math must be hard for you

          • Russell Byrd says:

            A. I already disposed of your lie with an explanation of what that means.

            B. I appreciate that by saying the rest are “moderate,” that you admit you “conservatives” are radical fascists. As far as liberal, I am proud of that. We are looking out for everyone and want fair treatment for everyone. You are just the opposite.

            C. You may have a point, that wide differential you claimed translated into the biggest landslide in history to elect your boy Romney president. OOPS!

          • lookout1 says:

            40% conservative 40% moderate .. and 20% liberal ..

            and you call the conservatives radical ..

            yeah thats your fucktard math for you

            As for the election .. you think if Obama didn’t get away with the lie of the year he would have won..

            Ever think why he put off obamacare until AFTER the 2012 elections … since then its been nothing but a shit slide for him

          • Russell Byrd says:

            IF, there has been any “shit slide” it is only due to the hysteric lies told by the right-wackjobs. The facts of Obamacares success indicate quite a different reality.

            But, like truth, reality is offensive to shits like you. You, you left-wing Fascist! ROTFL!

            Like I said, you are not very bright. You let Flush Rimjob, or Dim Peck-er feed you hysterically funny lies, instead of actually using your brains.

          • lookout1 says:

            yeah obama is doing great.. he is like arsenic to democrats running in Nov.

            President Obama Job Approval
            RCP Average9/2 – -11.9

            President Obama Job Approval – Economy =
            RCP Average = -14.7

            President Obama Job Approval – Foreign Policy
            RCP average = -23

            Direction of Country

            RCP average = -38!!!!!!!!!

            Public Approval of Health Care Law

            RCP average = -10.4

          • Russell Byrd says:

            “Public Approval of Health Care Law

            RCP average = -10.4”

            Actually, it is over 40%, and that is from what YOU call “lamestream media”

            Actually, 41.0%, as reported. Nearly another 10% are neutral, which means, they are NOT against it. So, YOU LIED.

          • lookout1 says:

            You must be a terrible historian

            RCP simply collects the latest polls taken by organizations aroudn the country and publishes them …

            So again you are a moron

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I know all about that, fuckstick. Though I do not do their work, I do very similar work. And that is why I got that data directly from them. No, not the Repunk Cocksucker Program, like you did.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            “President Obama Job Approval
            RCP Average9/2 – -11.9”

            That was never true.

            The RCP rating LAST WEEK was 43%, even after all the racist hate, and lies from your propagandists. Not bad, not bad at all. So, YOU LIED! AGAIN!

            Did you say you worked for something called PornSoft? I can imagine what you do. Clean up splooge, I am sure.

          • lookout1 says:

            RCP takes and average you DUMB SHIT..

            and another one was taken today // underwater by almost 13 POINTS

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Which fuckstick, if you had a brain and could simply add, was exactly the figures that I gave. UNLIKE THE LIES YOU TOLD.

            And it is -12.2, and yesterday it was less than -9, and tomorrow it will be ? Who cares. It comes out that Obama, after all the wackjob lies, is still approved by about 40% of the population. Unlike Bush-Cheney, which was somewhere in the sub-basement at about -30!!!!!!!

            As well, these phone polls, and self-reported polls, and why even have FukedUp Noise in there, are largely participated in by people that have got a bur up their ass. They are always prone to be wrong-low. Even for Bush.

            Well, that would be hard to believe.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            “Direction of Country

            RCP average = -38!!!!!!!!!”

            Cool! In your stoooopid, lying ignorance, you fail too notice that most people say that because they HATE YOUR PARTY.

            BECAUSE, GrOPe approval is NINE PERCENT!

            Obama is a god compared to you sorry sods.

            So, thank you Mr. McPlunger. Now I know what you are looking out for. Another big turd in the bowl.

          • lookout1 says:

            Keep saying that … The GOP is coming the GOP is coming..!!!

            If the GOP ‘approval’ had any bearing .. why on earth are they set to take over the senate… says alot about your party then.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I think you better wait until it happens.

            Oh yeah, you were right about Romney’s big landslide.

            ROTFL! & LMAO! at a totally dishonest mentally ill fuckstick!!!!!!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Now the civil answer you seem so enamored with. Oh that is right, it is not the truth you seek, ever!

            The Rethugs are depending on voter suppression and an historically low turn-out to take over the Senate. It could happen, but . . . .

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Not only was it proved that Gore won the 2000 election, but in 2008, there were four million more Democrat ballots cast than Rethug. In 2012, it was over one million more cast. In 2008, N.C. alone, had one million more Democrat ballots cast. Yet, Rethugs run the entire state. How? When we slowly strip your criminal activity away and let THE PEOPLE vote, what is going to happen to you?

          • lookout1 says:

            Voter ID is coming .. and you cant stop it…

            Try to keep your drooling to a minimum

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You mean, criminal voter suppression.

            THE ONLY PROVEN VOTER FRAUDS ARE REPUBILTARDS.

            And, prison is coming . . . and you can’t stop it.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            There are three posts destroying your LIES. Even you don’t deny their LIES. I don’t think it is worth time busting the rest.

            Does your version of RCP, mean Rush Cock Predictions?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Your lying? Can it be any more simple.

            You came to a liberal blog to lie. Why as someone that was here in the beginning, do I owe you my silence and compliance?

          • lookout1 says:

            So now HTTP links to a widely read web site is a lie..
            link to national Polls at that

            You would be funny if not so pathetic …

          • Russell Byrd says:

            It your hands, the Ten Commandments would lie.

            Oh, sorry, you are the kind of amoral atheist that gives Humanists, Atheists, Agnostics, etc., a bad name. You might even be too sociopathic to be that kind.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I understand that “shit slide” was one of your favorite pastimes as a kid. Strangely, I bet it still is.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You already agreed to mine by digressing on other subjects that had nothing to do with the argument that YOU chose.

          • lookout1 says:

            I would love to see that agreement..

            you never presented one fact other than .. screaming YOU ARE WRONG…

            Ive presented docs from the IRS… Surgery Journals NEJM … etc..

            And all you you say you are wrong you FASCIST!! But you are too stupid to know Fascism is a beast of the left .. anarchy is the outcome of the right if never stopped

            Good luck in life being completely ignorant and living on food stamps..

            I just wish you moochers would stop being so jealous of the successful as they are the ones paying for your crap… sorry you were too lazy or stupid to get a decent job..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Your total failure to address facts that are sent out destroying your argument. Tacit agreement. You do not have a reply that does not entail a lie.

            I have already proven elementary History to you. Scream fascism is a “beast of the left,” all intelligent informed Americans, and ALL the rest of the world knows you are just an insane liar. That is good enough for me.

            You have presented information that does not support your position. True they may be, but as used by you, they are lies.

          • lookout1 says:

            all the world??

            Weird how they have books written on Liberal Fascism

            You have yet to explain how No government leads to Facsim with is close to total government ..

            All you say is IT DOES!!!

            Before the war leftist and progressives thought Fascism was the wave of the future… only after it was discovered the horros di they turn it into right wing.

            Remind me again

            Who wants to nationalize healthcare ?

            Who wants to nationalize banks if they could?

            Who wants to Nationalize the oil companies if they count ?

            Who HAS nationalized Higher education loans?

            The left.. but somehow fascism is on the right?

            H.G. Wells was of the greatest influences on the progressive mind in the twentieth century (and, it turns out, the inspiration for Huxley’s Brave New World). Wells didn’t coin the phrase as an indictment, but as a badge of honor. Progressives must become “liberal fascists” and “enlightened Nazis,” he told the Young Liberals at Oxford in a speech in July 1932.

            Franklin D. Roosevelt (about Musollini) , quotes about Fascism:
            I am much interested and deeply impressed by what he has accomplished and by his evidenced honest purpose of restoring Italy and seeking to prevent general European trouble.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I am an historian that is well versed on the subject, and I have never seen one. But of course, I don’t touch anything that Rush writes.

            So, you just keep telling whoppers.

            Psst! . . . that means you LIE!

          • lookout1 says:

            All those who cant, TEACH..

            living in the world of academia.. the Leftist Church

          • Russell Byrd says:

            There is no higher calling than teaching. That is why I know you are a fuckstick. An envious fuckstick at that. What is more, you prove you not only worship stupid, but are.

            “Leftist Church” says several things about you. You want aggressive, but stupid drones. That is what Hitler and Stalin wanted. As well, the demonstrate that truth and fact and knowledge are “leftist.” So, thank you.

            Oh yeah, thank you fuckstick.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You don’t propose no government, or even smaller government. You propose a broken, and even more corrupt government than we have, that funnels money into the well-lined pockets of your thieving gods.

          • lookout1 says:

            When did you see a single proposal of more government from me??

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I standard reply to a lot of fuckstick garbage is this: Don’t tell me who you are, show me who you are, and then I will know. Your lot claims a lot of things that are untrue, but your actions speak louder than your words.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Regardless of that, or what else you claim, you plainly want to give us broken government, not less.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Some things I have learned from this exchange:

            1. You are very uneducated.

            2. You are very aggressive.

            3. You are a bully.

            4. You are fond of making claims that have no relation to the discussion.

            5. You cannot keep on a subject, but squirm like all lying trolls.

            6. You make claims that have no basis in fact.

            7. You are mentally imbalanced.

            What I have not learned is:

            1. What you do to make all that money you claim.

            2. If the 25k you claim to have paid intaxes is rather your entire salary.

            3. If you have paid 25k, is that all taxes you have paid.

            4. If you ever paid 25k at all.

          • lookout1 says:

            assume all of the above is true.. it must really drive you nuts im in the top 10% … and you in the lower rungs of society ..

            LIFE IS GRAND!!

            See under obama I’ve done quite with the stock portfolio… you though .. are begging for scraps …

            A Computer Science Background pays well especially if you have close to 20 years with Microsoft on your resume…

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Maybe grand, but I do not envy you at all. You have substituted evil pursuits, for a normal, decent life. No amount of golf will fix you.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I really think that you must be mucking out a public restroom somewhere. It was the only job you could get after embezzling your employer.

            If you were so important at Microsoft, why are you not still there, or retired.

          • lookout1 says:

            Im only 40’s and started in my 20’s… and the reason i left is my group changed what it wanted to do..

            did i scream and moan and cry about the evil rich white man.. no .. i got a job else where

          • Russell Byrd says:

            So, you left a dream job to become a chronic, whiny fuckstick.

            No, you want to kiss the ass of the evil rich white man. Go ahead. But what is truly disgusting is, like all bullies, you want to pick on the weakest that have the least defense.

            And every word you have spoken since you arrived has proved that fact.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            So, you hate Obama, but you made a mint. Thanks for proving me right about your morals, and your intelligence. Or lack of, that is.

          • lookout1 says:

            I suppose you love Clarence Thomas? Hermain Cain, Allen west … or are you racist ..?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I hate then with a passion, and their is no racist hate there. The PROBLEM REALLY IS, you are a racist for bringing it up.

            As far as those gentleman, all have been proven dishonest. Cain is at best an ass, if not a sex criminal, Thomas would have been impeached AND removed for dishonesty, conflicts of interest, and partisanship, except for the partisan atmosphere of Washington. and West left the Army rather than be cashiered. So, none of those gentleman you racist fucksticks want to use as examples is worth a damn. As well, they all hate any black person that does not measure up to their standards. So, in a manner of speaking, THEY are just continuing the history of racism in the Rumpbugger party these last fifty years.

            TADA!

          • lookout1 says:

            So hating a half white man is racist.. but hating a 100% black man isnt..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You just proved you are a racist, cocksucker.

            I hate because they are dicks like you. And they even are racist against their own people. BUT, you prove forever that you are a racist, because only a racist would even mention a “half” black man.

            By white racism, and by community, and by history, there are no half-black men. There are those few that pass for white, and the rest where black. Whether they liked it or not. They were not accepted by you racist fucksticks.

            A cracker racist like you has an almost 100% chance of being part black. What up, bro?

          • lookout1 says:

            so do you hate white or black?? i am confused..

            Clarence Tomas is Black.
            Bobby Jindal isnt white
            then we have Allen West … another GOPer.

            foam att the mouth more …. i love it

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Foaming at the mouth? That seems to be entirely your problem, not mine. I explained in detail what I disliked about those individuals. So, the simple version is that I just hate fucksticks, Mr. Fuckstick. Spin all you like, you are the racist. If their is any racial hate otherwise, then it is your several black heroes that hate their own, and they do.

            As far as you being confused. Well, yes you are! Like your left-wing fascism, or the hating of the “half” black man. You just just let old Rushie Baby, your butt buddy, fill your head full of twisted ideas. Yeah, I know, you don’t listen to Flush Rimjob. Wink, wink, it will be our little secret.

            But the fantastic part is, “Obamacare Is Not The Disaster It Was Predicted To Be,” is still a fact!

          • lookout1 says:

            # 3 .. damn right… In a battle of wits i tend to beat the crap out of the unarmed..

            And facts tend to win out

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Bullies are being sent to jail, in these days and times. But, I guess you are friends with Bubba from your earlier trip inside.

            #3 is a fact, so is that actually good. Thanks for having no other comment. You proved me right again.

            Remember, I can ask just as many pertinent questions, as you have a right to ask stupid, idiotic ones.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Actually, it is a lot less than that. See my post below.

            Most of those that identify as conservative do not believe the fascist evil nonsense that you do. It is not that they are not conservative, but that you are not. You are just a idiotic, lunatic that has falsely pirated the term.

            And that is a fact jack.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            First, your poll has nothing to do with fascism.
            Second, I already proved beyond all doubt that fascism is a “beast” of the RIGHT.

            Like everything you post, you turn it into a lie. Moderates, in most cases, only disagree with us out of fear spawned by your hateful propaganda. Yet, they in general agree with us on every issue, except money. Now consider, at least half of the conservatives actually believe they are conservatie, AND ARE. They are not that far from our platform. No, they don’t agree with us a lot of times, but they can be worked with.

            Then there is the other half of the conservatives that are raving racists, bigots, liars, and unreasonable nutjobs, LIKE YOU. The entire 80% of the rest of us, cannot get along with your evil madness at all.

            So, we come full circle to the same truth. You nutjobs are a woefull minority that exercises more power than you possess because of your evil hatred. AND, the fact that we do not unite to crush you.

          • lookout1 says:

            What is your Proof .. you saying it is..
            Yeah thats proof..

            Would you like quotes of Leftist/Progressives praising Hitler and Fascism before the war..??

            In fact he NAZIS and Italy Loved FDR prior to the war.

            Then after the war… ooops its now evil and right wing ..

            One thing you can ALWAYS count on the left for.. is trying to rewrite history … because its a graveyard of failure..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Yeah, let’s here those quotes. The best you can do is Stalin and he was another dictator like Hitler.

            Or are you talking about leftists like Franco, Mosley, Quisling, and Mussolini. Bwhahahahahahahaah!

            Give it up, Mr. Plunger, you lost, and everyone know you did. But, I like you wasting your time being an ass. I troll trolls, but you are not smart enough to figure that out.

            The beauty of that statement is, i can tell the gospel truth, and you will never figure it out.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            See my other post, straightening out your misuse of that poll data.

            You still have never addressed the fact that demographics of this Nation make it impossible for you to exist, except, that many people do not do their duty and stomp out your candidates and movement. But, it is coming.

            (Oh, “movement” fits well with your “shit slide.” Enjoy)

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Maybe even worse, 90% of the nutjobs that think like you are not being served by their elected officials. Yet, you vote for them anyway, because you are scared “shit slideless” that minorities might have a full voice. Like Obama being president.

          • lookout1 says:

            The person who sees racism everywhere .. might want to start with the mirror..

            Regardless of your color .. i think you are a moron .

          • Russell Byrd says:

            If teatards like you are conservative, and 40% are conservative, why isn’t the other 75% of those teabuggers too? Hmm?

            Because you are not a conservative. . . . But something very much worse. Seig heil!!!!!

          • lookout1 says:

            YOU CAN KEEP YOUR POLICY IF YOU LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!

            2013 liar of the year… leader of the democrat party OBAMA

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Already debunked hundreds of times. Yes, hundreds. You just told a liar’s lie.

            Everyone knows that Obama may have misspoke, but at the time, he was telling the gospel truth, and thought he was telling the gospel truth.

            THOSE GREEDY BASTARD INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT YOU WORSHIP CANCELLED THE POLICIES BECAUSE THE FED COULDN’T STOP THEM. So thanks for looking like a buffoon again.

            ONWARD, SINGLE PAYER!!!!!!!!

          • lookout1 says:

            And yet he won 2013 LIAR of the year from a left wing paper ..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            “HealthReformScam.com” YOU ARE a lying fuckstick cocksucker. That is not left-wing. Oh yeah, Mr. Fuckstick thinks the right is his left. So, I guess you are actually a raving soshie.

            YouTube, my ass. And I do not watch such drivel, as everyone is just some opinionated assholes racist libel.

            You have lost everytime. And that was real stupid. You have not refuted anything I have said, nor have you even tried. So, I guess you know I am right.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            “HealthReformScam.com”
            YOU ARE a lying fuckstick cocksucker. That is not left-wing. Oh yeah, Mr. Fuckstick thinks the right is his left. So, I guess you are actually a raving soshie.

            YouTube, my ass. And I do not watch such drivel, as everyone is just some opinionated assholes racist libel.

            You have lost every time. And that was real stupid. You have not refuted anything I have said, nor have you even tried. So, I guess you know I am right.

          • lookout1 says:

            If you think the Washington Post is on the right .. you must be a closet communist ..

            Did or did not Obama win 2013 liar of the year award from Politifact?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            The Washington Post varies greatly in content, but even their management admits they prefer right-wing content.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            And PolitiFact became Liar of the Year, when they blamed Obama for what anyone with a brain knows was not an INTENTIONAL lie. He TOLD THE TRUTH, the insurance companies that you fucksticks worship, screwed the pooch.

            I never listen to PolitiFact anyway, they tell functional lies about both sides. Their rationale is the same as all mainstream media. Get a story out there.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Oh, and fuckstick, just a reminder. I kept my doctor and most everyone did. With your “high-end” policy, that you surely must have, if you tell me you lost your doctor, I will just call you a lying cocksucker.

            On the other hand, my insurance deductible went out of sight. Guess why? The Pubs that ran the fun wanted cash for a different project. So, they appropriated ours. Now, isn’t that par for a real welfare system.

          • lookout1 says:

            So i guess obama thats an obama imposter on video

          • Russell Byrd says:

            “HealthReformScam.com”

            What don’t you understand about a group that exists just to libel and slander the President and his program(s).

            If I were one of your supporters, I still would not bother to go to an obviously tainted source for anything. BUT, YouTube, . . . really?

            However, it is great for firing up the low IQ tinfoil hat wearers.

          • lookout1 says:

            So the video of obama saying the 2013 lie of the year over and over and over and over … is inaccurate?

            Did they edit it ? change it .. use the SNL impersonator?

            You can use google .. they have thousands of clips of him lying

          • Russell Byrd says:

            How would I know, and why would I care. Your website, and its sole intent, are to lie to the American people.

          • lookout1 says:

            So now the Wshington Post and Politifact are in on the conspiricy ..

            and now putting a montage together of the several dozen times obama told the same lie over and over .. is a lie..

            Orwell would have a place for you in the Ministry of Truth

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You are the one that needs help. I think you must be listening to too much fag radio. Oh, I mean Rushie Baby.

            And I bet Orwell had a picture of you on his wall when he wrote 1984. At least you seem to have read some Junior High School lit.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Your gang edited the Acorn tapes. Recently, and it is documented in the courts, one of your felons settled for 100k with a guy that worked for Acorn.

            You people will do anything to screw the public and get your way. Well, you aren’t smart enough to do that, even though that is what you want. You just bend over and let them screw you. And man, do you ever smile, and smile, about it.

          • lookout1 says:

            And yet acorn no longer exists.. strange…

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Because of liars like you, and it is proven. Just because you got away with criminal acts, does not make you lily white clean. Well, I can guess you are lily white, but your soul is pure shit.

          • lookout1 says:

            Yeah.. poor acorn busted for helping under age prostitutes getting abortions and voter registration fraud over and over and over

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Bwhhahahahahahahahahhahahhaha! You cannot even tell a good lie. ROTFL!

            There is no response, except to make a contrast. Voter suppressions, based on no provable data, or no data at all, are being run rampantly across the Nation by Rumpbuggers. What is so laughable is, the majority party and its supporters, and most independents are going to win and keep winning. And though you will delay the inevitable, we will become in complete control.

            And, WE WILL REMEMBER! So, prattle on about that, I do give a flying hairy, fuckstick. It is going to happen, and at least, the normal one of us knows this.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Do to criminal activity that has been recognized as I have said. Proud, maybe you can have your ass sued off before long.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Who knows, oh low IQ, tinfoil hat wearer.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Like I said, don’t (like arrogant, ignorant assholes) tell me who and what you are, SHOW me who and what you are. And sir, you have shown me, and you are a LYING ass.

            So, to simply things, and move on to the truth, I offer this photo of you and your “friend.” It actually depicts quite accurately what is wrong with, for example, the Kochroach-Teabugger unnatural relationship.

          • lookout1 says:

            And yet the poor and middle class have done WORSE under the Obama recovery than the actual recession ,,

            That is saying a lot.. perhaps you should have all your democrat friends move to the blue states going bankrupt… or cities.. i heard Detroit is lovely

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Because you dickheads want to keep suppressing wages and cutting taxes for the wealthy, while they off-shore the excess profits. All the while you will not support job creation.

            Face it, these problems have Teabilly politics at the bottom of all of them.

            And I like, in a manner of speaking, you just proved the cartoon completely correct. You vote against your own interests, because you are a racist cocksucker.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Actually both! The truth is, the Teabuggers don’t really know what they want, but they just want to hurt as many people, and disrupt, as much as possible. They want total fascist control, to unintentionally, but ignorantly destroy our way of life.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Your first paragraph is a total lie. Most people do not call you shits the fascists that you really are. They don’t want to hear you whine.

            So, many of us do call you fascists, and what we will get from your incoherent program of hate, suspicion, and lies, IS ANARCHY. You goons are disorganized fascists whose only real technique is destruction.

            Your second paragraph is intriguing. And true enough for once to prove my point. Yet, as disgusting as they are, you know nothing about Libertardians. I know some that are very, very Liberal. Some are part of the crazy right fringe, and most of them are synonymous with the tea party. Some identify as both. The original core principle is everyone can do exactly what they want to do. Complete freedom. As long as you can pay for your freedom. Kurt Russell & Penn Gilette are two prime examples of believers in that principle. Most libers just use it as a slogan to rationalize their self-centered ignorance. And that is the problem. What happens to the poor and those that have to be cheated to give you what you think YOU DESERVE.

            Ever hear of “all men are created equal.” That is the guiding principle of two very important documents. Only one of which is temporal.

            Fascism is a “black letter” right-wackjob philosophy. So, don’t bother with that lie. No one with half a brain will go for it. But hey, that would exempt you to go ahead and believe it.

            Mussolini and Hitler were not really pals, but as for their close alliance, they were by definition far, far right-wing. Like you. Revise history all you want, you will still be wrong, and seen to be wrong.

          • lookout1 says:

            You proceed to say we don’t call you fascists.. and then call us fascist..

            Fascism is a Child of the left .. its one of your many love children.. It seems you are two stupid to realize that Facisms is close to total control of every thing .. The ANTITHESIS of anarchy

            You have yet to explain how no government is total government ..

            The left contiunes to pain the NATIONAL SOCIALIST PARTY as far right… because it cant live up to its failure ..

            If yo look up this history it was the PROGRESSIVE that loved Stalin, Mussolini, and Hitler..

            Before the war, fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States…

            Finally, since we must have a working definition of fascism: : Fascism is a religion of the state. It assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. It is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. It takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, whether by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including the economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives. Any rival identity is part of the “problem” and therefore defined as the enemy. I will argue that contemporary American liberalism embodies all of these aspects of fascism…

            The above could be the DEMOCRAT PARTY PLATFORM

          • Russell Byrd says:

            fas·cism
            ˈfaSHˌizəm/
            noun
            noun: fascism; noun: Fascism; plural noun: Fascisms
            an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
            synonyms:authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy; More
            Nazism, rightism;
            nationalism, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism;
            jingoism, isolationism;
            neofascism, neo-Nazism
            “a film depicting the rise of fascism in the 1930s”
            (in general use) extreme RIGHT-WING, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
            from Wikipedia

          • lookout1 says:

            Oh snap yo got me with wikkipedia !

            lets try the ENGLISH DICTIONARY

            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

            a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government

            : very harsh control or authority

            often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralizedautocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

            2

            : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

            IE LEFTWING!!!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Thanks for the site. That is by definiton right-wing. You order people about like Mosley, Quisling, Laval, Franco, Hitler, and Mussolini. NO HISTORIAN, and I am one, will support you. Not unless he is a Aryan Nations apologist!

          • lookout1 says:

            Hmm remind me who want larger and larger gov and more and more taxes to grow it ?

            and LOVES SINGLE PAYER?? thats the left you twat .. not the right

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Then, finally admit the truth that you people want a Fascist right-wing dictatorship that will cater to the crazy, selfish whims of the minority like you.

            And I never said anything about “larger and larger,” you fuckstick liar. I said those with the most should pay a premium share of the taxes. Their FAIR share, as they make all the money, while 90% of the population struggles, and many live in poverty.

            All in the richest Nation to ever exist. Well, in total wealth, but not in distribution. And don’t lie about redistribution. What redistribution does is rob the true makers, the workers, and line the pockets, and closets, and attics, and basements, and safes, and stock portfolios, and FOREIGN bank accounts of the real “takers” that do functionally nothing to gain that wealth.

          • lookout1 says:

            Hate to break it to you .. the fascist nationalized health care .. its step one in controlling the population .. the other is education ..

            who is screaming for single payer again?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Any one with a brain and is not amoral as you are.

            Education is only effective when it is not for profit.

            In N.C. a judge ruled against privatization and vouchers. Why? Because “they don’t teach children anything.” You want privatization solely because you can propagandize young, open minds with your amoral shit. You want to create fuckstickbots out of everyone you can.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Is communism a right-tard philosophy. It’s not, so explain this:

            From the first hours of Hitler’s invasion of the Soviet Union, the propagandists on both sides of the conflict portrayed the struggle in stark, Manichaean language. The totalitarian nature of both regimes made this inevitable. On one side stood Hitler, fascism, the myth of German supremacy; on the other side stood Stalin, communism, and the international proletarian revolution. —Anne
            Applebaum, New York Review of Books, 25 Oct. 2007

          • lookout1 says:

            Your point? because they fought they cant be each left wing??

            One of the enduring lies regarding the intellectual roots of Hitler’s Nazi Party was that as a philosophy, Nazism was a right-wing or conservative ideology. It was neither.

            After World War II and the extent of Hitler’s genocidal madness became known to the world, the mainstream press, academics and progressive intellectuals both in America and Europe who spoke and wrote so admiringly of Hitler began to join the universal chorus to condemn his acts. Around the same time there was a subtle but concerted effort made in the marketplace of ideas that characterized Hitler and Nazism as a “right-wing” or conservative ideology

            Of course, Nazism, communism, totalitarianism, fascism, even progressivism, socialism and modern liberalism all overlap and are connected ideologically with each other. Furthermore, leftist politics have little relationship with modern conservatism, which, as is ironically more closely aligned with the 18th century classical liberalism of Adam Smith, Edmund Burke, Montesquieu, Locke, Blackstone and America’s constitutional Framers than with Nazi or fascist ideology.

          • lookout1 says:

            Oh btw based on your leftard philosophy .

            France and were England as well as the rest of Europe must have been closely related to Communism…. as Hitler attacked those “far left countries” to

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I can’t even see you holding a job at all. Maybe a rubber room, but that is about all.

            Let’s just say, you are a total idiot of a nutter that will tell any lie, spin any yarn, and make a total ass of yourself in a desperate attempt to win what is impossible.

            The GREAT Democracies were simply middle of the road, as contrasted by the far-left Stalin, and the far-right Hitler. The real problem with the latter two, was nothing more than a dictator’s obsession and aggression. AND this was especially true of Hitler, as you already posted a definition of yourself. And I might add, dictators can only stay in power by vilifying someone. Like the Teabugger campaign against Obama and America. Just because they are a group and not an individual, does not mean they behave any differently.

            So, see how easy the truth is to tell. Instead of idiotically, and insanely ranting falsehoods. So, there you have an easy History lesson, and I threw it in for free. No need to thank me. ROTFL!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Fascism stand in opposition to Marxism. Is Marxism right-wing?

            Are you a pinko commie fag too, dear fuckstick?

          • lookout1 says:

            What distinguished Nazism from other brands of socialism and communism was not so much that it included more aspects from the political right (though there were some). What distinguished Nazism was that it forthrightly included a worldview we now associate almost completely with the political left: identity politics. This was what distinguished Nazism from doctrinaire communism, and it seems hard to argue the marriage of one leftist vision to another can somehow produce right-wing progeny. If this was how the world worked, we would have to label nationalist-socialist organizations like the PLO and Cuban Communist Party right-wing

            Hitler’s hatred for communism has been opportunistically exploited to signify ideological distance, when in fact it indicated the exact opposite. Today this maneuver has settled into conventional wisdom. But what Hitler hated about Marxism and communism had almost nothing to do with those aspects of communism that we would consider relevant, such as the economic doctrine or the need to destroy capitalists and bourgeoise. In these areas Hitler largely saw eye to eye with socialists and communists. His hatred stemmed from his paranoid conviction that the people calling themselves communists were in fact in on a foreign, Jewish conspiracy. He says this over and over again in Mein Kampf.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            If you claim Obama is a dictator, tell me what rights you have lost?

          • lookout1 says:

            The right to choose my insurance policy ..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            If you claim Obama is a dictator, tell me what rights you have lost, when you are forced to recognize the rights of other people?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            if Hitler is a left-wing socialist, then why is it only far-right wackjobs worship him? Hmm? Go ahead, but that fact alone kills your entire bullshit retro history. And there are a lot more facts to back that one up.

            Like all right-wackjob liars, you have an allergy to truth.

          • lookout1 says:

            Before the war, fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States…

            Progressivism in America, and fascism in Europe, were basically one and the same, and a trend of the times between 1900 and the 1930s. The goal, as Goldberg writes, and several other experts have noted, was to obtain “the great utopia.” If we could take from the rich and give to the poor, we can make a world where there is no poor..

            American progressivism, from which today’s liberalism descended, was a kind of Christian fascism (many called it “Christian socialism”). This is a difficult concept for modern liberals to grasp because they are used to thinking of the progressives as the people who cleaned up the food supply, pushed through the eight hour workday, and ended child labor. But liberals often forget that the progressives were imperialists, at home and abroad. They were the authors of Prohibition, the Palmer Raids, eugenics, loyalty oaths, and, in its modern incarnation, what many call “state capitalism.

            -FDR’s National Recovery Act Study: “The Fascist principles are very similar to those which have been evolving in America and are of particular interest at this time.

            In fact the left still idolizes Che, Mao, Castro , and Chavez…

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Where do you get your history. Do you make up these fantasies, or does Flush Rimjob tell you?

            Or is it Dim Peck-erhead? He certainly is crazy enough.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            as·cism
            ˈfaSHˌizəm/
            noun
            noun: fascism; noun: Fascism; plural noun: Fascisms
            an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
            synonyms:authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy; More
            Nazism, rightism;
            nationalism, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism;
            jingoism, isolationism;
            neofascism, neo-Nazism
            “a film depicting the rise of fascism in the 1930s”
            (in general use) extreme RIGHT-WING, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
            from Wikipedia

          • Russell Byrd says:

            American progressivism closely follows Christ’s teachings of tolerance and charity, but is not at all christian in nature.

            Fascism was always seen as an oppressive, dictatorial, nationalistic system.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            What is so hilarious, is your incredible, ignorance, and stupidity. You shits think Hitler is left-wing just because his outfit had “socialist” in its name.

            How stupid can a gang of goons be. You jerks actually have declared war on certain words in the English language, and you don’t even know what they mean.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            NAZI, in part as translated into English is NATIONAL Socialist . . . They were a nationalist party. By definition right-wacko. I realize that you will just tell the lie again, but your argument is destroyed. Again!

          • lookout1 says:

            Well I guess that make the NATIONAL football league a far right enterprise!!!

            What part of taking over almost every major industry makes it far right and not socialist ..

            To only Difference between fascism and socialism is one does it for the country the other for the people ..

            In other words they are twins of the left

          • Russell Byrd says:

            That is the reasoning of a total moron. By your rationale, an American would be an employee of a tobacco company. Stoooopid fuckstick!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            My father pointed out something that is rather apt considering your “APE SHIT” nonsense about “when people want to take care of themselves.”

            He observed that all you fucksticks spew this big talk, but when the chips are down, you are always the first in line DEMANDING that you get a lion’s share.

            And, like Steinbeck observed, and I will paraphrase. All your kind talk about how hard you work, and how much you are worth, and how little those that do your dirty work are worth. Yet, as he said, not one of you will trade your position for a “muckstick.” In other words, you are all lazy, self-important, liars and hypocrites.

            NO ONE, is stopping you from taking care of yourselves. Just more lies. Why do you bother to post to people that already know you LIED, are LYING, and will keep LYING.

          • lookout1 says:

            Well i least i know your retardation is genetic …

          • Russell Byrd says:

            NO ONE, is stopping you from taking care of yourselves. Just more lies.
            Why do you bother to post to people that already know you LIED, are
            LYING, and will keep LYING.

          • lookout1 says:

            I take care of my self and to some degree , moocher democrat voters

            Its one of the “benefits” of being in the 10% and living with one of the most progressive tax systems on earth .

            So mind your superiors.. you know, the ones that pay for your food stamps, education , clothing , housing , healthcare , transportation ..

            Just just better hope those pulling the cart dont stop pulling

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I bet you were a draft dodger like almost everyone of your good capitalist and right-wackjob politician heroes. I bet you have to be dragged kicking and screaming to pay any taxes at all.

          • lookout1 says:

            Was a 39Bravo you twat…

            You ? probably just a welfare recipient.. or still living with mom and dad

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Don’t believe you. You lie constantly. If you were really, you would not try to use jargon to confuse the issue. As it is, am I to assume that is sub-section 39-b, under section eight of the Uniform Military Code? LMAO!

            Draft dodger!!!!!

          • lookout1 says:

            Now you really show your ignorance… the us army uses alpha numeric designations for your MOS..

            Military Police, Basic and MOS Training at Fort McClellan

            So is your moms basement nice? and how many food stamps you get a month?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I know that dickwad. I am just making a monkey out of you, but it would be simpler to just sit back and let you do it for me. All by yourself.

            And guess what, fuckstick. I have never been to Fort McClellan, nor did I have any reason to be there. I guess the fact that you know something useless allows you to stand behind God and whisper in His ear. And that is the problem, you really think you have that right.

          • lookout1 says:

            Again …how is your moms basement?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            It is just fine. I take care of her, and I pay ALL her bills. I bet your mother lives in the worst nursing home in town. That is, if you didn’t already manage to kill her.

            By the way, she does not have a basement, but on the other hand, how is your bunker? You know the one with the tinfoil lining so you won’t have to where your little tin hat.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Oh, I am living large on the government. In fact, they paid for a bunker to be built under my Mom’s house. And I get 17k in food stamps a month. They bought me a new luxury SUV, when my 2013 Lincoln needed an oil change. They even give me 10k a month just to gamble with, and all the free drugs that I can carry home from the free clinic run by John Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic. I even get two 3 carat diamond rings a year, just for turning up at the welfare office. Nothing too good for me.

          • lookout1 says:

            Yeah this self entitled paid about 25k in fed taxes this year.. Probably about the same as your income

            YAY 10%!!!!!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            !. IF that was my income, then you just exposed yourself as that greedy self-entitled bastard fuckstick that hates his Nation and the human race. You are just too damn good for the rest of us.
            2. Any amount of money you make is probably just a waste.
            3. Any amount of money you make will not change that you are a fuckstick.
            4. So, according to this disorganized ball-o-confusion you just posted, you made 250k? Why all the whine? Or, what did you make? Is business that good standing on a street corner offering bj’s at night? Oh, that’s right, you work 24/7, because you love your job.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You know fuckstick, like I said, quit your job. Well, if you have ever had one, sorry.
            But, go down to that non-existent welfare office, and pick up that 60k
            in benefits.

            The real truth is, it is more like 12k for a family of three, and you cannot even buy toilet paper. It is not allowed.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You know you cocksucker, I have worked hard all my life, and I have seen a whole stream of self-entitled, lazy, useless losers like you that think they should have it all, for nothing. I know what it is like to have nothing. And I have seen a lot of people hurting. But, unlike yourself, I do not wish to cause suffering when I have the ability to relieve it.

            And that brings us full circle. Your entire abusive, trolling, posting of lies is just to give a rationale for you being a selfish, evil dick. That is all that it is. Post that on your “wall,” for it is gospel.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            “Or perhaps all these uninsured are millionaires and billionaires”

            Sorry, that just destroys the credibility of your argument. I know you will not understand. . . .

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Actually, you gave just exactly one study. And you gave a link that certainly does not support your view if one actually reads it.

            As always, right-wackjobs think if new “facts” are needed, all one has to do is just make them up. That’s wrong, sorry.

          • lookout1 says:

            Its the largest study of its kind..

            The problem is another one of your utopian promises turn out to be shit..

            Just like you ER claim… which doctors are seeing INCREASING not decreasing

            Costs Increasing not decreasing
            Choice Decreasing not increasing

            Obama could tell you a pile of crap was hot chocolate and you would eat it with a grin ..

            Want more studies

            A University of Pennsylvania study published in Cancer found that, in patients undergoing surgery for colon cancer, the mortality rate was 2.8 percent for Medicaid patients, 2.2 percent for uninsured patients, and 0.9 percent for those with private insurance. The rate of surgical complications was highest for Medicaid, at 26.7 percent, as compared with 24.5 percent for the uninsured and 21.2 percent for the privately insured.[4]
            A Columbia-Cornell study in the Journal of Vascular Surgery examined outcomes for vascular disease. Patients with clogged blood vessels in their legs or clogged carotid arteries (the arteries of the neck that feed the brain) fared worse on Medicaid than did the uninsured; Medicaid patients outperformed the uninsured if they had abdominal aortic aneurysms.[5]
            A study of Florida patients published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute found that Medicaid patients were 6 percent more likely to have late-stage prostate cancer at diagnosis (instead of earlier-stage, more treatable disease) than the uninsured; 31 percent more likely to have late-stage breast cancer; and 81 percent more likely to have late-stage melanoma. Medicaid patients did outperform the uninsured on late-stage colon cancer (11 percent less likely to have late-stage cancer).[6]
            A University of Pittsburgh study of patients with throat cancer, published in Cancer, found that patients on Medicaid or without insurance were three times as likely to have advanced-stage throat cancer at the time of diagnosis, compared with those with private insurance. Those with Medicaid or without insurance lived on for a significantly shorter period than those with private insurance.[7]
            A Johns Hopkins study of patients undergoing lung transplantation, published in the Journal of Heart and Lung Transplantation, found that Medicaid patients were 8.1 percent less likely to be alive ten years after their transplant operation, compared with those with private insurance and those without insurance. Medicaid was a statistically significant predictor of death three years after transplantation, even after controlling for other clinical factors. Overall, Medicaid patients faced a 29 percent greater risk of death.[8]

            Why do patients fare so poorly on Medicaid? The key reason is that Medicaid pays physicians far below market rates to care for Medicaid beneficiaries. In 2008, according to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Medicaid paid physicians approximately 58 percent of what private insurers paid them for comparable services.[9]

            A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that individuals posing as mothers of children with serious medical conditions were denied an appointment 66 percent of the time if they said that their child was on Medicaid (or the related CHIP), compared with 11 percent for private insurance—a ratio of 6 to 1.[12]

            Among clinics that did accept both Medicaid/CHIP and privately insured children, the average wait time for an appointment was 42 days for Medicaid and 20 days for the privately insured. A related study, published by the same group in Pediatrics, found that 63.5 percent of Medicaid/CHIP beneficiaries were unable to get an appointment, compared with 4.6 percent of those with private insurance—a ratio of 14 to 1.[13]

            So the question is why do democrats hate poor people forcing them into crappy insurance

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Wow! The only problem is, none of this actually supports your views, if you actually read what they were trying to do, and what it really means. You can make the raw data mean anything, if you have a mind to lie.

            About the crappy insurance. It is a massive improvement over the “apology” policies that people had. As well, if the insurance is crappy because it pays the medical profession so poorly, then that is primarily a Teabugger, Rethuglitard problem. WE would fund it better. YOUR mob, won’t.

          • lookout1 says:

            Democrats:You u are too stupid to know the insurance you need… so we will make you buy what we want..

            The only choice a democrat want you to have.. the choice to kill a baby ..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Keep lying fuckstick, and I will keep calling you a lying fuckstick. You have not posted one coherent argument, idea, or any true evidence since you started trolling here. But, maybe with a little perseverance, I can get you to stroke out. You are getting hysterical enough for that to happen.

            Of course, I am laughing hysterically back at you.

          • lookout1 says:

            Keep lying fuckstick, and I will keep calling you a lying fuckstick.

            democrats also too dumb to see irony ..

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You know fuckstick, most of the insurance policies cancelled, were of such poor quality that the holders did not want them at all. BUT, they could not afford better, and they could not demand fair treatment.

            What we need, is fully funded first class medical care for all. REALLY, because the failure to be able to afford expensive private insurance is what really caused everything you have been mis-reporting and lying about.

          • lookout1 says:

            and again

            Democrats:You u are too stupid to know the insurance you need… so we will make you buy what we want..

            Old man… you now get lactation Therapy !!!!! YAY!!!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Just another fuckstick manufactured bit of nonsense. Oh yeah, another LIE!

            Where do you get this shit at. Obviously, you are not even smart enough to have fantasies like these.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            So you can read this more easily, I will make a separate post. Everything you have posted as evidence points to one basic conclusion. Or two, if you want to split the baby, but they really are two different aspects of the same conclusion.

            EVERYONE NEEDS PRIVATE INSURANCE, or MEDICAID NEEDs TO BE FUNDED BETTER, and Medicareas well. That probably cannot be done, but as long as you thugs exist, it cannot be fairly discussed.

            So, as I have been waving a flag at you in warning, you are proving your own platform false!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            A different way, and very directly this time. You are the Fox guarding the hen house, and you blame your own predations on those you are supposedly guarding.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            ” . . . found that being on Medicaid was associated with the longest length of
            stay, the most total hospital costs, and the highest risk of death.” As opposed to getting no care at all?

            Then it would read, ” . . . found that being without Medicaid was associated with no medical care, huge taxpayer funded, mostly last-ditch failures to save someone’s life, and simply . . . death!” The truth is, the only reason that care is being withheld, is the CAREGIVERS are slow to give it because they don’t think it pays enough. Which it doesn’t.. Will YOU pay to fix the problem with the private sector providers. Go ahead and lie,

        • dtgraham says:

          That’s because a lot of family doctors don’t accept Medicaid, so Medicaid recipients end up at the ER. A lot of the uninsured don’t go to the ER as often as Medicaid recipients because the uninsured don’t want to end up ruined for life financially due to medical bills they can never pay back. The truly indigent don’t care because they have nothing to lose, but others do.

        • neeceoooo says:

          Not anymore, because of the ACA they now have an insurance policy which requires them to have a family doctor which allows them to see their family doctor for regular treatment. One of the desired effect of the ACA was to eliminate the abuse of the ER.

          • lookout1 says:

            Uh the majority of obamacarre is the EXPANSION of Medicaid…

            The number of costly emergency room visits is set to soar under Obamacare, according to a “gold standard” Harvard study, which directly contradicts claims by President Barack Obama that his Healthcare law would cut ER trips.
            The study, published in the journal Science and released on Thursday, shows that the nearly 4 million new patients subsidized by government under the expansion of Medicaid are more likely to end up seeking treatment in emergency rooms for non-emergency health problems than before they entered the program.

            Harvard conducted the study in Oregon in 2008 after that state expanded its Medicaid program. It found that newly-insured Medicaid patients went to the ER 40 percent more than the uninsured.

            So as usual reality differs from Left utopia

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/21/obamacare-emergency-room_n_5352987.html

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Well of course it did, you bigoted bung-hole. Anyone who has been procrastinating on anything while building a pent-up need will overdo it when they suddenly get access.

            Let’s draw an analogy. Let’s say that your entire trailer park suddenly runs out of Bud, and all the stores in East Butthole where you live are closed for a month. You rednecks would suffer greatly, but if you suddenly found a broken-down beer truck nearby, the entire trailer park would go berserk and soon find itself in beer-fart heaven — humping your sisters, the cat, and any unlucky sheep that happened to wander by. You would pay for it the next morning, of course, but since you rednecks are too stupid to hold a job anyway it wouldn’t be that big a deal.

            That’s called ‘pent up demand’. Even stupid rednecks can grasp the concept — if they try real hard.

      • idamag says:

        Out of every $2500 you spend in medical care, $800 goes to pay for those who don’t have or won’t get insurance.

  13. howa4x says:

    Now e just need democrats to embrace it and come out of hiding and run on it’s benefits

  14. Econ101lab says:

    Cynthia Tucker, never right, but always certain.

    To date, the uninsured population has only declined between 2% and 3%. CBO says that when Disastercare is fully implemented there will still be 30 MILLION uninsured. Wow, fook up the whole health care system and STILL have 30 million uninsured. That’s a winner!

    – According to CBO, the most recent 10-year cost estimate is $1.9 TRILLION, over twice what Obama & Democrats promised.
    – There is no $2500 per family savings as Obama & Democrats promised.
    – The cost curve is not going down as Obama/Democrats promised. First year AVERAGE increase in premiums for the individual/small biz market was 41% across the country.
    – Turns out millions can’t keep our doctors, our hospitals, and the plans we like as Obama/Democrats promised.
    – According to CBO, Disastercare will cost Americans a NET 2.9 million jobs at a time when there are still fewer people working today than when Obama took office.
    – Disastercare is one of the largest tax increases in the history of the country, further depressing the economy.
    – It discourages hiring a 50th employee as that will trigger a company being subject to Disastercare.
    – It encourages turning people into part timers as if an employee works only 29 hours they don’t count as a full time employee.
    – It encourages companies to dump their employees onto the exchanges as the fine for NOT providing insurance is only $2000/employee while buying insurance for an employee is thousands more. And the exchanges are NO bargain.

    And Tucker says it’s not the disaster some said it would be. To me, it seems far worse.

    • WhutHeSaid says:

      Blah, blah, blah….we get it, you’re a bigot, Obama is black. You WILL abide by the law and that’s that. At least you can take some comfort in the fact that Obamacare outlaws health insurance companies from refusing you due to pre-exisiting conditions — even yours: stupidity.

    • charleo1 says:

      Do you currently have health insurance? I thought so. ACA is only a,
      “disaster” to those who are currently insured the way most people continue to be, through their employer. And are partisan Republicans for reasons having nothing to do with their insurance. Businesses hire for the same reasons businesses always hire new employees. They have more work than the current number of workers can handle. The reality before ACA, and a major reason that ACA, or some National health policy was necessary. Is employers have been shedding their company health plans for years. Leaving millions of Americans with no alternatives, but to remain in accident free, good health, or lose their homes, and savings to a major medical emergency. And as one would expect, the number one reason for Middle Class bankruptcy for the decade prior to ACA, was uninsured medical bills. Secondly, government, at various levels, already accounts for 40% of all health coverage dispensed. It was the skyrocketing costs of taxpayer, and insurance company, reimbursements to healthcare providers, for the uninsured, that was threatening to bankrupt government budgets, and the entire delivery system. So, doing nothing was, and is not an option. Enacting a Medicare for all, or a public option, is the most efficient means of remedying the problem. Most of the other industrialized countries that have national health plans do this. But here in America, our government is wrapped around the finger of big business. And the banking, and insurance companies have their hooks well entrenched, and nothing will do but for us Americans to pay three, and four times as much as everyone else, and suffer with poorer outcomes. To stave off the evils of Socialism, by protecting the Rights of everyone involved to continue screwing the American people. Just not as much as before. And therein lies the GOP bitch on their own plan. It cuts out a lot of the most profitable screwing, a good ten years before we would have all ran completely out of money. The insurance companies stand to make more money than ever. But they’re still pissed. Because the bankers were allowed to screw the public, and the government until they were both completely out of borrowed money. And they don’t think it’s fair, they didn’t get the same deal.

      • Econ101lab says:

        You are badly misinformed and mistaken in much of what you say above.

        First, there have never been 50 million uninsured in this country. http://spectator.org/articles/41931/myth-46-million.

        Second, your 10-12 million statistic is incorrect. At most, 7.3 million signed up and paid on the exchanges (although that number is uncertain). According to Kaiser 74% of those were previously insured and had their plans cancelled by Disastercare. That would mean 1.9 million newly insured on the exchanges. HHS estimates that 7.2 million have enrolled in Medicaid. However, health outcomes for those on Medicaid are no better than being uninsured according to the multi-year Oregon Study (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/ 2013/05/02/oregon-study-medicaid-had-no-significant-effect-on-health-outcomes-vs-being-uninsured/

        According to a Health Affairs Study, 1/3 of doctors aren’t taking new Medicaid patients. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/06/study-one-third-of-doctors-wouldnt-take-new-medicaid-patients-last-year/

        Medicaid/Medicare also rejects more claims than all other insurers combined. Both are run by Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2009/10/06/deny-guess-who-has-highest-medical-claim-rejection-rate

        The reality is, businesses respond to incentives and are very creative about working their way thru gov’t regulation. As a retired business owner, I know this to be true. The incentives outlined above regarding hiring are real…and are being borne out in current events. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/09/17/take-it-from-a-restaurant-executive-obamacare-is-shifting-workers-into-part-time-jobs/

        Although one of the few things you have correct is that the largest single cause of personal bankruptcy is medical expenses, it’s not a huge problem. It has historically run less than one half of one percent (.4%) for ALL personal bankruptcies. Estimates of medical bankruptcies run from 40-60% which means medical bankruptcies in the US would be between .16% and .24% of Americans.

        And don’t argue with me regarding costing jobs, argue with the CBO…it’s their work. From their report, ““CBO estimates that the ACA will reduce the total number of hours worked, on net, by about 1.5 percent to 2.0 percent during the period from 2017 to 2024, almost entirely because workers will choose to supply less labor.” The reason for the reduction in the supply of labor is that the provisions of the ACA reduce the incentive to work for certain subsets of the population.” Explain to me how this loss of US productivity is a good thing?

        And I find it hilarious that you say that gov’t already spends 40+% of all health care dollars so they should just take over ala some sort of single-payer system. It’s largely BECAUSE gov’t has taken over so much of the spending that costs have skyrocketed. http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/government-health-care-inc-the-chart-which-explains-it-all/

        The same thing has happened in college tuition. And you ignore the horrible records of single payer systems like Canada or Britain. Before Disastercare, the US had the best health outcomes of any system on the planet. Of the 10 worst killers (diabetes, heart disease, stroke, cancers) the US was number 1 in eight and 2nd in the other two. And you really want to tell me that our crappy lifestyle isn’t a huge factor in our health care costs? Fat, poor diets, no exercise, smoking, etc.

        The rest of your post appears to devolve into some paranoid conspiracy theories about banks and insurers. No comment on that stuff.

        • charleo1 says:

          But you do have insurance. And I’ve found that alone has as much to do with how an individual feels about healthcare reform, as their politics. As a former business owner, I hope you seen that your employees had adequate insurance. If so, you no doubt knew those employees with preexisting conditions, before ACA, were at your mercy. Especially, if they owned a home, and had managed to put away some savings for their kid’s education, or their anticipated retirement. One uninsured illness or accident, could have wiped out years of careful preparation. A satisfying feeling for you I’m sure. But not a situation any American, in the freest Country in the World should have to be in. And there is really no adequate excuse for it. Now if you didn’t have a company plan, you were part of a growing trend. And, the taxpayers, and the privately insured were subsidizing your labor costs, every time one of your workers, or their dependents used the ER, for their medical care. Not a situation low wage employers, like Walmart the Nation’s largest private employer, were unaware. As were the more traditional service oriented businesses, like restaurants, hotels, and cleaning services. The fact the economy for more than two decades has been replacing better paid factory jobs with health benefits. With lower paying service positions, without them, is an undeniable reality the anti-reform adherents refuse to acknowledge, but true, nonetheless. The stop gap measure enacted back in the Reagan years, to provide care to the indigent, and uninsured, using the ER, the most expensive, and ultimately inefficient way to deliver care, was busting both State, and Federal budgets. As well as causing private insurers to raise premiums even more. Which exacerbated the already growing numbers of uninsured. With small rural facilities being the least able to absorb their part of the losses, after the govt. and private insurers chipped in their parts. We now have tens of thousands of people living in rural areas, where the nearest hospital is 50 to 100 miles away. Not an acceptable situation. So again, one’s feelings on necessary healthcare reforms, is largely dependent on their own health security, and care availability. There are unfortunately some that live by the old adage, that I’ve got mine Jack, too bad about yours. However, we as a Country, can no longer afford that attitude, and remain a great Country. At least when it comes to the fundamental Right of healthcare. The politics of the Right on this, are dishonest on their face. It was this plan to increase the roles of the insured by disposing of the pre-existing exclusions, and mandating that all the uninsured purchase health insurance from a private, for profit insurance co. that they first endorsed in 1993. As an alternative to a Medicare for all, National health program. As it was apparent more than 20 years ago, the old employer based system was spiraling into insolvency. Now, for political reasons, they turn on their own plan. It’s also the kind of politics we as a Country can no longer afford. Gone are the days employers can hold their hires over the insurance barrel. And also gone, are the days, when other employers can ride the system, and transfer the costs of their labor onto the collective backs of the other hard working taxpayers. A Conservative ethic, by the way. Where each individual pulls his/her own weight, and takes responsibility, or at least as much responsibility as their wages allow, for their own bills. And that’s fair. Now one may find this or that source that lists all the reasons why this is a bad deal. But, none to suggest a holistically better, more equitable, way to address the problem.

          • Econ101lab says:

            Yes, I have insurance. No, employees weren’t “at my mercy”. It has been illegal since HIPAA passed in 1996 for insurance companies to refuse to insure someone due to a pre-existing condition. Second, group plans don’t have pre-existing condition exclusions or waivers.

            Most of what you say is IRRELEVANT to whether this is a good law or a stupid law. And medical bankruptcies have remained steady even after Disastercare passed so I’m not sure why you’re so exited about that supposed benefit.

            And no, the individual mandate is not something conservatives support because the Heritage Foundation suggested it way back when. Conservatives didn’t like it then, and don’t like it now. That”s like saying all liberals believe the rubbish put out by Media Matters or Think Progress.

            And Charleo, there is no FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO HEALTH CARE. I’m sorry, there just isn’t. It’s a product, like car insurance, life insurance, homeowners insurance, etc. There is no RIGHT to any of these things. Please show me where in the Constitution or Bill of RIghts “healthcare” is mentioned.

            Virtually everything you complain about is being made worse by this law.

            – You say you want affordable insurance. The AVERAGE premium increase in the individual market in 2013 was 41%. Prices went up in 41 states and DC. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analysis-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidies-flow-to-elderly/

            – The most recent data by the Census Bureau indicate there were MORE uninsured in 2014 than in 2013. While that is alarming, no one asserts this is making a big dent in the uninsured. http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2014/09/22/us-census-bureau-number-of-uninsured-americansincreased-in-2014-n1894992

            ER usage is up…paid for by taxpayers.
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/21/obamacare-emergency-room_n_5352987.html and http://hotair.com/archives/2014/06/09/er-use-skyrocketing-with-obamacare/

            And please explain to me how taking wealth away from the young (who don’t even have it!) and giving it to the old is “personal responsibility”? The 3X max old/young premium rule is contrary to actuarial data and transfers a HUGE amount of wealth. This is the primary reason young people aren’t signing up in the numbers the law needs to be viable. Community rating is contrary to actuarial data. Charging women the same as men is contrary to actuarial data.

            And given the HUGE incentive businesses have to dump their employees onto the exchanges, how is THIS helping the taxpayer? Please recall the “fine” for an employer who DOESN’T provide insurance is $2000/employee. Having provided insurance for employees, I can tell you with certainty that actually buying it for employees is thousands more. Thousands of businesses will comply with the law, dump their employees onto the exchanges and pay the fine. The employees will pay higher deductibles, higher premiums, with narrower networks, and higher total out-of-pocket expenses.

            And given that over 75% of people on the exchanges get subsidies provided by taxpayers, how is THAT benefitting taxpayers…particularly when the price tag is now $1.9 TRILLION over 10 years, over twice what Obama/Democrats promised?

            You’re just not thinking this thru if you don’t see that Disastercare is the largest wealth transfer in history.

            Finally, there are several conservative alternatives that would work infinitely better. Avik Roy has proposed one, HR 3400, a bill by Doctor Tom Price is far better and a couple of hundred pages versus 2700 pages that no one read and now 10’s of thousands of regulations behind it. Tho Harry Reid hasn’t even allowed it come up for debate on the Senate floor. The Republican Study Group is coalescing around a plan which you can read about here:
            http://rsc.woodall.house.gov/solutions/empoweringpatientsfirstact.htm

            But if you want to see a simple, real-world, market based, patient centered solution that actually works, look at what Mitch Daniels did in Indiana, which you can read about here: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704231304575091600470293066?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052748704231304575091600470293066.html

            And you want to know why American manufacturing jobs are declining? A huge factor is the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world and the ridiculous regulation load makes it far more economic to make things overseas and import them…or sell them overseas while leaving the money over there where IRS can’t touch it. You want manufacturing jobs back? Let corporations repatriate the almost $2 TRILLION they’re holding overseas tax free provided they invest it here, and lower the corporate tax rate to a flat 15%. I mean seriously, you can’t really tax a corporation. Taxes, like labor, raw materials, rent, transportation are a cost that is built into the price of the good or service. So who is REALLY paying those taxes?

          • charleo1 says:

            I read your worldview, have read it before, and I
            fundamentally disagree with it. First of all, there’s a lot of important Rights that aren’t mentioned in the Constitution. It doesn’t mention a Right to clean air, and water, for example. But they are an essential prerequisite for every other Right that it specifically guarantees. And it doesn’t mention medical care. But, what kind of a society would allow preventable
            deaths to occur, for a lack of individual financial wherewithal? When that society had the collective capacity to insure the basic elements of life to all it’s members? It would be an immoral one, to be sure. A society where certain Rights were only truly guaranteed to it’s strongest members. Not much progress from the cave era. And none, if compared with the feudalistic system of a thousand years ago.
            We live in a Capitalistic economic system. Not in a
            Capitalistic Country. A Capitalistic Country would
            only provide medical care for those who could afford to purchase this commodity from the market.
            Like you assert. “car insurance,” But, that’s not quite right, is it? A person will not die, without car
            insurance. If some accommodation is not made for the delivery of this essential, “commodity,” medical care. What good is freedom of speech, or of religion or, assembly, or the freedom from search, or seizure, without probable cause? If one is denied the fundamental Right of life itself, simply for the lack of
            money? I dare say, if we we were to live by the rules of pure Capitalism, there would one purveyor of care who had cornered the market, and all would become slaves, just for the access to their life saving elixir. Something like this did happen a few
            months ago, when a hedge fund somewhere bought
            out the entire supply of a certain chemotherapy drug, and tripled the price. Thus demonstrating the
            clear difference between life saving medical care, and hula hoops. And, Conservatives should at least
            admit they see the difference too. That there is a moral, and ethical element, that makes access to the health delivery system, a fundamental human Right. And start from that perspective. Right now,
            they, [conservatives,] have taken the position to be ideological myopics, to a free market system that ultimately holds no answer to providing a practical result. Health savings accounts are fine, if they are
            portable, and the job is steady, and has longevity,
            and decent pay. But what of the complete chaos
            that’s taking place in America’s low wage trenches?
            Where jobs end, people’s hours are cut, and the
            turnover may take an individual thru 10 or more positions in less than a decade? Personally, I don’t
            care if it’s ObamaCare, or Romney Care. Who did
            by the way, suggest withholding drivers licenses from those who refused to purchase insurance in MA. But that was a different Conservative Party, than the one we have today, wasn’t it? Where today, they attempt to boil everything down to taxes, debt. and smaller govt. While refusing to accept the moral responsibilities their jobs impose upon them. To do
            the hard work necessary, and take on their corporate benefactors, if necessary. To provide better solutions for the people in this matter, if they have them. Instead of spending their time in office campaigning for a leadership role in an institution, [the govt.] they claim is incapable, or beyond it’s bounds, to address the lack of access to quality, and affordable healthcare. And until such a time as
            the Conservative Party sees healthcare as a Right of
            every person in this Country, any solutions they may
            come to endorse, is probably not going to be any
            solution I can support. But, like many Liberals, I’m
            still listening, and waiting.

          • Econ101lab says:

            So now you’re going to lecture me about morality? Who gets to define what’s moral, you? Me? That guy behind the tree?

            How is it moral to kowtow to teachers unions demands, as liberals do, to limit charter schools when it’s been shown to improve education outcomes? How is it moral to drive states and cities into bankruptcy as liberals have done…California, Detroit? How is it moral to hook people on welfare and food stamps rather than implement policies that would get them a job? And in the case of Disastercare, how is it moral to saddle our children and grandchildren with HUGE debt for a program than simply cannot work?

            And I’m sorry, but there isn’t “chaos” in the low wage trenches. And it isn’t “moral” to have government take absurd amounts of money from the people who earned it and waste it. You think Disastercare is “moral” when it hurts twice as many people as it helps? When it costs people their jobs? When they get dumped off a good employer plan and shoved into the exchanges where they’ll pay more for higher deductibles, higher co-pays and less choice? When they get signed up for Medicaid which denies more claims than all other insurers combined and has no better health outcomes than being uninsured? That’s moral?

            A free market system actually has been PROVEN to work…I gave you the link, apparently you can’t be bothered by facts and evidence. As opposed to this disaster which not only isn’t working, but cannot work. Here it is again. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704231304575091600470293066?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052748704231304575091600470293066.html

            If you get government out of healthcare and let the people be in charge of their own healthcare, they will make infinitely better decisions regarding their needs than government.

            While there is not “right” to healthcare, or “clean air”, I DO support a RATIONAL safety net for our poorest citizens. This isn’t it. It’s 10 year price tag is now over $2 TRILLION…far more than the old system cost. How is that “moral”?

            And you’re clearly not paying attention. Read HR 3400, Dr. Tom Prices plan (only 269 pages vs 2700 pages and 10’s of thousands of pages of regulations). It actually makes sense, accomplishes the goals Disastercare was supposed to but doesn’t, and would actually lower the cost of care in America, not raise it dramatically. Also, Governor Jindal has proposed a plan, Avik Roy has proposed a plan, and the Republican Study Group appears to be coalescing around a plan similar to Dr. Price’s. All or any of them would be better than this disaster.

            None are so blind as those that will not see.

          • charleo1 says:

            I know, Conservatives don’t like to talk morality, and money at the same time. I get you. Unions should be outlawed. Public schools, and unions. And, what gives workers the idea that they should be allowed to gang up, and ask for a raise, anyway? When the fact is, all employers, big, and small are generous to a fault. And always have been. They hire people they don’t need. And so, would fire them if required to pay an additional cent on the hour. They provide them with health insurance. All out of the goodness of their hearts. Ditto for the 40 hour week, and over time pay, paid vacations, workman’s comp. and unemployment insurance. See, I’ve heard a lot of things about that fantasy world you Righties like to claim exists. But, all of these things I just mentioned, that contributed to the once strong American economy, wouldn’t have seen the light of day, if left up to the GOP. and unions had never existed. In most cases, the world you, and the Right Wing say you live in, hasn’t existed for more than 50 years. Around the last time the average worker in this Country got a real increase in salary, accounting for inflation. And real people, living in the real world, have to account for such things, as inflation. As far as Liberals bankrupting States, have you ever noticed, that Republican lead States. Most in the South, many of them have either been controlled exclusively by Republican Administrations for years, like Texas. Or mostly controlled by Republicans, say like, Kentucky, that receive back, from 1.5 to 3.5 times the taxes they are sending in to the treasury And Blue States are by general rule, the aggregate contributors. That send in more, some, like Mass. with it’s Romney Care, send in much more, than they receive back in Federal Govt. dollars. Now why would that be? Given that Conservatives are experts of high finance, and low taxes. And Right to work laws, low, no frill wages, corporate subsidies, and bastions of free market, privatized, for profit everything. Where the Gov. don’t regulate, but just step aside, and let entrepreneurship flourish! Then why would an oil rich State like Texas, have the highest percentage of uninsured children of any State in the Union? And require such a huge bite out of an admittedly debt burdened Federal Govt. budget, year, after year, after year? I’d completely ignore that, if I was you. It might get you to thinking, maybe you don’t know all you think you do. Or, not half as much as you used to. Right now they are throwing all kinds of numbers around about ACA. And maybe they are absolutely right. If so, we’re still not going to be able to go back to the good old days, of healthcare. The economy has changed. We face global competition, where workers are being paid $60 dollars a month, to do the job, that here, once raised a family, bought a home, provided health insurance, paid for the kids college, paid Uncle Sam, and had enough left over to sock some back for retirement. Now how we get all that done for a Middle Class that’s in real trouble, is the issue. Oh, and one more thing. Most of the people receiving food stamps, work full time, and have one or more children in the home. The majority live in rural areas, and are White. So, it’s not so simple anymore to say, just get off your lazy asses, and get a job, and vote Republican. Most already do.

          • Econ101lab says:

            No, actually, I’d love to talk about morality. It’s just that liberals are so hypocritical about it.

            Do you really believe the tripe you write? You sound like a whiney Occupy Wall Streeter who wants to “stick it to the Man.”

            Unions have long outlived their usefullness and in the public sector they SHOULD be outlaws. Even FDR thought so. The conflict of interest is obvious.

            You think I live in a fantasy world? In what sort of alternate reality can the UAW justify the wages and benefits when the factories in right to work states can build a better car for less? You say we’re now in a global economy…one of the few things you’ve gotten right. How can the UAW justify wages/benefits in a global economy? The Koreans build a better car for less! You whine that companies outsource jobs. Well, duh. It’s that or go out of business. If unions want to survive, they need to modify their wage/benefit packages, pay some of their own health care costs, and LEARN TO COMPETE. Whining that it “isn’t fair” is real fantasyland.

            And please, PLEASE tell me how it’s “moral” to blackmail someone into joining a union? (Don’t join, no job). There’s a reason WI teachers unions lost 60+% of their members. They no longer serve the interests of the members.

            I love it when you liberals bring up the Red states get more federal money trope. You know why? BECAUSE IT’S GOING TO THE PEOPLE IN THE STATE WHO VOTE DEMOCRAT!
            http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2012/02/do-welfare-recipients-mostly-vote.html AND
            http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/12/the-politics-and-demographics-of-food-stamp-recipients/ AND
            http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/09/the_myth_of_red_state_welfare.html

            And yes, of course the majority of welfare/food stamp recipients are white! Almost 78% of Americans are white! But as a percentage of each racial total, blacks and hispanics (and women) receive more welfare/food stamps.

            Its clear the data show that Red states are supporting far more Democrats than Blue states are supporting Republicans.

            As to why Texas has a high number of uninsured children, do you think it might have something to do with the largest illegal alien population in the country? Hmmm? And look at the other border states, Arizona, New Mexico, California, Nevada. Also higher than average. See a trend?

            Compare financial health, debt, quality of education of Detroit, Chicago, NYC to Dallas, Indianapolis, or any city controlled by conservatives. Are they perfect? No, but their citizens are generally better off than liberal states/cities. Why do you think California is losing population and Texas is gaining population? Could it be that people want a job? Who has the highest murder rate and strictest gun control? Chicago. Another liberal fantasyland.

            Under this LIBERAL administration real wages are DOWN while the stock market is skyrocketing. The labor participation rate is STILL lower than when Obama took office. The U6 unemployment rate (which counts people who’ve quit working) is still 12%.

            You want to revitalize the middle class? Here’s how:

            Tax reform. http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/09/20/a-34-nation-survey-confirms-that-the-u-s-tax-code-is-highly-uncompetitive/ AND
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/01/18/alan-kruegers-mistake-the-us-tax-code-is-more-progressive-than-most-other-oecd-countries/

            Build the Keystone Pipeline and crank up oil and gas production on federal land.

            Abolish the minimum wage (and watch employment for young people skyrocket).

            Adopt a national Right To Work Law and ban public sector unions.

            Repeal Disastercare and replace it with HR 3400.

            Cut regulation on small businesses.

            Let American corporations repatriate the $2 TRILLION they’re holding overseas with a 5% tax if they agree to invest it here.

            Severely curtail the EPA. Abolish the DOE and the Dept of Education. Block grant that money to the states.

            There’s more, but that’s a good start.

          • charleo1 says:

            You couldn’t be more wrongheaded if you tried.
            Look, I don’t know your income, so if they build
            cars, and the people building them, are paid less, the cars aren’t any cheaper. So, the bigger profits go to the wealthy, fine. But how does that help sell more cars? Provide more jobs? Buy more homes Fill them with stuff. That’s how a consumer economy works. We don’t need more people in this Country making less, and a few making more. We need more people making being paid more money. Personally, it seems to me, I believe you know what you know, and that’s good enough. But it won’t produce a growing economy. Your problem is at the end of the day, you see a zero sum game. Where the nickel that goes into the worker’s pocket, is a nickel misplaced, and can’t be “justified,” if in fact, the boss can figure out how to gip him out of it. Make him pay more of his insurance, pretend you’re still contributing to his retirement plan. But actually list the funds as company assets. And, the poorer he
            is, the more he’s squeezed, the cheaper he works. Now isn’t that right? The fact that eventually all this chiseling finally screws up the market, and slows sales, is exactly what’s ailing the economy. And while these CEOs, are nickel, and dimeing their employees, they’re collective actions are also screwing their companies, and the stockholders. But the way it works, he’s got his, and the first few quarters looked terrific. So he got his bonus. So what’s it all really about anyway? That’s your World, and you’re welcome to believe in it. But, I will not be joining you. This side of Hell anyway.

          • Econ101lab says:

            You clearly don’t understand economics. Cars need to be quality and cost/price competitive in a global marketplace. What “finally screws up the market” isn’t companies “gipping” employees that hurts sales, it’s trying to shoehorn unsustainable labor costs into a GLOBAL market that simply won’t support them. You may wish for the good old days, but they’re long gone and won’t be coming back.

            If Detroit can’t meet the price hurdle because their labor costs are much higher (and they are, in the US alone about $1200 per car difference JUST TO PAY UNION RETIREE BENEFITS) their options are limited. They can’t lower labor costs because of union contracts, and they can’t raise price without being even MORE uncompetitive, so they have to cut the 2nd largest expense after labor; materials (and/or investment in R&D or capital equipment which also makes them less competitive in the long run). At some point (reached LONG ago) you can cut no more fat and quality suffers. So now Detroit produces a lower quality car at a higher price. This means they will sell fewer cars meaning they will not grow and create more jobs. This means that labor becomes LESS valuable and drives wages down even more as there is a large pool of unemployed workers who can do the work. This is the spiral that is affecting the auto industry today.

            When US citizens had few options to American cars, union tactics worked and the autoworkers benefitted tremendously. However it harmed the economy as a whole as essentially autoworkers were getting an undeserved premium paid for by every American who bought a car leaving those American consumers poorer than they should have been in a free market.

            If you want to drive up wages, you have to shrink the available labor pool to make labor scarce which is exactly what unions do in a closed shop, the union controls the jobs. That will work if the entire industry is a “closed shop”. In a global economy, it isn’t. To make labor scarce again, more jobs must be created in the economy as a whole…far more than this anemic economy is producing. So all the liberal policies which hinder job growth by adding regulation and cost (Disastercare anyone???), not building the Keystone pipeline, not drilling, loose immigration policy, etc. is worsening the situation.

            Full employment is between 4-5% unemployment which is called the frictional unemployment rate. That is, the amount of labor that is still fully engaged in the labor market but between jobs for one reason or another. And that has to be the U6 rate, not the U3 rate that is the “official” gov’t number. The U6 rate is currently 12% according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

            You have it exactly backward. LIBERALS see it as a zero sum game. The pie is just one size and and you want government to divide it up as you deem “fair”. Conservatives see the solution as making the pie bigger so EVERYONE’S share is bigger. This means growth which translates to more jobs, more taxpayers, less people on public assistance, a frictional labor pool which will drive up wages for everyone.

            These CEO’s aren’t screwing their companies and shareholders, they’re doing what they must to survive in a global economy. After all, the shareholders are benefitting from a record stock market…while the employees have lower real wages than when Obama took office.

            A vibrant growing economy is the solution. One I think we both want from what I take from this discussion. However, liberal policies hinder growth and Disastercare is one of the biggest drags on the economy ever passed by Congress. You recite these liberal talking points which simply aren’t based on fact or reality. You seem like your hearts in the right place, you want a better life for Americans. Spend a little time researching things before you believe them. With Al Gore’s internet, it really easy.

            And you don’t have to wait for Hell. As long as liberals are running things, we’re already there.

          • charleo1 says:

            You’re not much of a problem solver are you Perhaps that’s because, you’re unaware we even have a problem? And that’s my number one knock on the Right Wingers. It has everything to do with
            politics, and their constituency, and nothing to do with leadership. Corporations don’t hire Right Wing
            politicians to be leaders. They put them office to do
            what they are told. So their answer to falling wages, attributable much more to the of selling out the U.S. manufacturing base with lopsided trade policies, than the union scapegoating, their political shills have used to cover up American’s falling standard of living. However when pressed, their lavishly financed campaigns have bred a hubris, so that now the American people are told, well that’s just the way is, get used to it. And why not? The unions, and the voice of labor are nearly dead in the private sector. And the corporatists, and uber rich control 80% of Gov. they are flying high. So what is their prize? Because their victory is the defeat of the financial strength of the markets that created them. They think they have new markets to replace them. But they have become parasites, and cancers, that will eventually undermine them too. But in the meantime, and before that fully takes place, they’ve destroyed America’s ability to project our power, to advance the causes of freedom.and democracy. And the Communists? Well they could not be happier. Or ever more aggressive, and bellicose. Already, the dynamics of power are changing. As we are now reward their violations of their people’s human Rights. In the case of China, with a Most Favored Nation trade status. Our recent credit debacle brought calls from the Communist to replace the dollar as the World’s reserve currency, as too unstable. And the American people, which are not stupid, or blind to all of this. Are told to essentially sit down, and quit whining. Your jobs are gone, and they are never coming back. So just suck it up. We’re in charge now. And if you want any jobs at all, you had better do this, that, and the other thing. The clear message is, we don’t need the United States to rule the World anymore. And that my misguided friend explains a lot of your, “Where the problem?” mentality. Or your conclusion, that what a lot of people need, is a good swift kick in the ass. And by all means, give the corpos a tax break, and let them regulate themselves. Problem solved. That’s why you don’t make a good partner in this fight. You’re blind to the problem. Think you already know everything. You’ve got a ready answer for everything, except the choice this Country is going to have to make, one of these days in the not too distant future. And therefore are condescending, and dismissive of anyone who tries to alert you to the dangers of the road we’re heading down. So relax. This is not your fight. You don’t understand it, don’t believe in it. And, it is primarily about the next generation, and the future of this Country, anyway. And that’s not where your head is. I can tell you truthfully, I think about it everyday.

          • Econ101lab says:

            This is getting tiresome. You have nothing but misinformed opinion. You either don’t read or ignore the information in the links I give you. You rant and whine about things that you clearly know little about. You’re demonstrably wrong about so much but ignore the data and information that might inform your opinion.

            You’re not going to change my mind, and given your resistance to facts, your mind is clearly not going to change, so let’s just call it quits and move on.

          • charleo1 says:

            I know a Communist when I talk to one. No body is
            that thick Mister. You’re not fooling anyone. Once a
            brainwashed Central Party advocate, always one.
            Now, there’s a fact. Chew on that!

          • Econ101lab says:

            I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were a well-intentioned but misguided person.

            Calling me a Communist is beyond idiotic and perfectly illustrates my point about your ignorance. It’s clear you don’t even understand communism. Communists are never, ever, free market capitalists. Ever.

            Your inclinations for gov’t control and pro-union stance are far more communist than my positions.

            Chew on that, comrade!

          • charleo1 says:

            I was just going to give you exactly the same benefit of the doubt. No, I don’t think you’re a Communist. What I do suspect, is you are unwittingly supporting the political Party that works hand and glove with the entities that are empowering, and enriching the Communist Countries around the World. And they are not free market Capitalists. They are Communist Governments that function as essentially, centrally controlled corporations, that oversee their entire economies. They target markets, heavily subsidize the manufacturing, from materials, to transportation. Under cut the competitors, until they’re bankrupt. Then, corner the market for themselves. Much the same as Walmart has overrun thousands of small businesses, here in the U.S. Only on a global scale. And there are no unions. Unions are illegal. Their labor can’t vote, so why do you think my pro-union stance is Communist? There are no unions in China. Just a whole lot of former American jobs. And a good number of American companies exploiting the dirt cheap labor of people who have no say in their
            circumstances. And yes, the cheap labor, no Americans could compete with is driving American companies out of business. Why would you support that? Why can’t free trade also be fair trade, without being protectionist? The answer is, it can.The reason it’s not, is the Govt. has no respect for the American people anymore. Disagree if you must. But think about it. People don’t vote. And don’t elect our politicians, without millions of dollars being spent. Politicians know this. And they know the average American don’t have millions to spend on their campaigns. And don’t have cushy jobs waiting for them, if they get tired of the constant fund raising. So yes. We’re supporting Communist. And I consider it a matter of National security. I wish you did too. And, I’m very surprised that you don’t.

          • Econ101lab says:

            Getting tired of educating you…

            http://townhall.com/columnists/mattpatterson/2011/12/12/labor_unions_and_communism_a_love_story/page/full

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_the_Soviet_Union

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communists_in_the_United_States_Labor_Movement_(1919–37)

            http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/7/labor-unions-and-communism/

            http://thepeoplescube.com/current-truth/unions-lenin-and-the-american-way-t4214.html

            Do you really think American companies, comprised of Americans, WANT to manufacture stuff in China or Malaysia or India? Where labor is largely unskilled and uneducated and the rule of law is a temporary, ephemeral thing? Where supply chains are long and slow? Do the things I recommended in my previous post and watch manufacturing come back to America where we have a great work ethic, a relatively educated workforce, and the rule of law still means something.

            They do so because our GOVERNMENT makes it so extremely hard to do business profitably in the US. Mostly driven by leftist, liberal policies.

            I told you in a previous post how to revitalize the middle class. You clearly ignored it. And of the people who DO vote, clearly the majority voted Democrat in the last two Presidential elections. and how has that worked out for us? Low information, badly informed voters (sadly like yourself) elected people who put policies in place which have resulted in the worst recovery in history, continued high unemployment, and more debt in 6 years than all previous presidents combined (as of October 2013).

            And please research the Chinese economy. Why do you think they wanted Hong Kong back so badly? They fully understand that their command and control economy doesn’t work. More and more, China has allowed capitalism to creep into it’s economy. It’s the primary driver of their economic boom. http://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2013/how-china-became-capitalist

            And look at the social democracies of Europe, Norway in particular. http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/2008/11/norway-is-more-capitalist-than-us.html

            The REASON for all this movement away from leftist, LIBERAL ideology is because IT DOESN’T WORK. Things like Disastercare DON’T WORK. Could things be more obvious? Look at places where liberalism has run things for any extended period. THEY DON’T WORK. The entire Soviet Union collapsed of it’s own leftist bureaucratic weight.

            And you claim it’s businesses trying to ‘screw’ the little guy. Complete nonsense. They’re trying to survive in a global economy. It’s gov’t that’s screwing the little guy.

            Why do I even try. That’s it for me. Just promise me you won’t vote.

          • charleo1 says:

            In answer to your question, if I believe American Cos. want to manufacture stuff in, [Communist] China. Where labor is unskilled, and laws governing such things as property Rights, and the sharing of cutting edge technology with the Communist Govt. of China, is the price demanded of foreign cos. for access to their cheap, and endless supply of labor. I can only go by what I see. And although I’m sure one day they’ll come to regret it. As of today, greed, and short term gain, and bringing U.S. wages, and U.S. environmental, and financial regulation, more in line with those of authoritarian regimes of the third world, seems to be the overall plan. And contrary to the pap, and fairy tales the Right Wing message machine is selling their devoted Anti Communist haters here in the U.S. The Communist partnership with America’s multi national conglomerates, and retail corporations, along with the infusion of billions of American investment dollars, is working out very well, for such a entirely centrally controlled system, they’ll tell you is doomed to fail. From Walmart, to Toys R Us, to GM, and our own military contractors. Who are doing a booming business, selling cutting edge technology, to the ever rich Communists. We the American taxpayer have paid them handsomely to develop, for our own National security. For the permission to build the rapidly expanding military of the Chinese Regime. All things the Right Wingers, and whores to the corporate culture, are loathe to discuss. Either on their propaganda laced websites, or their huge Clear Channel Radio markets, or on their main stream outlet Fox News. So yes, I’ll be voting at every opportunity. And voting in support of the U.S. and the American people. And of course, in support of the nearly 3 billion people across the World who live under repressive regimes. Many now supported by American corporations. Now, tell me
            none of that is happening. Or that it’s happening because of Liberalism. It’s utter nonsense.

  15. Bud Friend says:

    If ACA is repealed or replaced it will incorporate 80% of the benefits that the present healthcare program offers. Hopefully at a lower cost.

    National healthcare is here to stay no matter what we call it.

  16. barry1817 says:

    and in another recent story, teacher union is threatening to strike because their health care is to be cut, seems that they had a cadillac plan, which will be changed, because cadillac plans have a provision in the obamacare law to be taxed at 40%, making them cost impossible.

    So you can keep your plan if you like it was the lie that B.O. knew yet continued to persist in stating in order to fool so many and to get re-elected and that is playing politics with the health of so many.

    Ohio teachers threaten to strike over being forced into obamacare exchange3s http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/09/18/ohio-teachers-threaten-to-strike-over-being-forced-into-obamacare-exchanges

    • WhutHeSaid says:

      Hey goober: Don’t look now, but your President is black. And do you know what else? He’ll be your President for 2 more years, and the PPACA will still be the law.

      And…

      He’ll be black the WHOLE TIME!!!

      (Hee-hee!)

      • barry1817 says:

        first off a person that resorts to name calling is projecting his own biases and ignorance, and isn’t worth discussing issues with.

        As to the president being black, that is your racism, that you even think of a person of color as opposed to the content of his character.

        and if you follow his own words, by his own words he is both unpatriotic and irresponsible by his actions.

        So go bother someone else with your sophomoric personal attacks.

        • WhutHeSaid says:

          The President of the US is ‘unpatriotic’? That’s pretty rich, and it tells us all the content of YOUR character.

          Nobody is discussing anything with you in case you didn’t notice. Everyone here recognized you for the bigoted troll that you are immediately. Go back inside your trailer and sleep it off. Please remember to wash yourself (with soap, if you please) before coming back.

          • barry1817 says:

            You can go to the video and see that B.O. stated that when President Bush borrowed from the bank of China and raised the debt from $5 Trillion to $9 trillion it was both unpatriotic and irresponsible, so increasing the debt by even more in a shorter time is both unpatriotic and irresponsible.

            As to the name calling, that is all you have, the projection of you being a troll onto others, and personal attacks.

            Now go back to the hole you occupy and bother someone else.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            I don’t debate with bigots, so insults is about all you’re going to get. If you had any arguments that weren’t motivated by bigoted hate I might actually pay attention, but you don’t and I won’t.

            We see you inbred mutants wander into the National Memo from time to time, and it always makes me wonder if we should start building fences around the Nation’s trailer parks.

            Kindly go back to your trailer and guzzle some Bud, kick the dog, hump your sister or whatever it is that you rednecks do to keep yourself occupied — but quit trying to bore me to death. And don’t forget to wash, for the love of God.

          • theantitoejam says:

            You were refuted by barry at every point. You are truly a loser.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Well, Mr. ToeJam, I’ll tell you the same thing I told Barry: I don’t debate bigots. Bigots are mentally defective people, and they are generally not honest. Actually, that’s not to say that I avoid debating bigots, rather, it’s just that once I realize that I’m talking to a bigot I have zero respect for them and usually give in to the temptation to insult them — which they deserve. Once somebody calls a US President ‘unpatriotic’ or ‘communist’ or something similar, they have marked themselves as a bigot.

            Feel free to mark yourself; I’m sure you will eventually.

          • idamag says:

            That is why you don’t see me responding to them. You described a bigot and that is what they are.

          • neeceoooo says:

            We don’t want to waste our breath

          • Ed Portela says:

            theantitoe: You used the correct word: this guy WhutHe is an ignorant LOSER. To him (and to so many mo^^rons who toe the Obama crap), if you do not agree with them you are a bigot and you are racist.
            And, worse, confronted by facts, they spew out stupid (what else?) insults.
            Dedicate your time to discussions with the (few) thinking people here.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            No, you aren’t a bigot or racist just because you disagree with somebody. You are a bigot or racist because you are bigoted or racist.

            Now, aside from being an asshole, you’ve committed the biggest crime one can commit online: You are boring. Begone troll — go back to WND.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            The accumulation of debt is caused by the size of the Federal budget deficits, and the interest we pay on the debt. Deficit spending is the direct result of inadequate taxation to cover outlays, which is influenced by our refusal to pay for what we get and need. The national debt increased by $5.8T during former President George W. Bush’s tenure as a result of higher military expenditures following 9/11, the invasion of Iraq (unrelated to 9/11), the TARP, and the effects of a tax reduction at a time when outlays were rising.
            The national debt has risen by $4.8T under President Obama as a result of the Great Recession, which required, among other things, a stimulus package to overcome, and extending unemployment benefits. Accumulation of debt under President Obama has decreased substantially during the last two years as a result of a significant decrease in deficit spending.
            By the way, I am surprised your Cadillac plan was affected by the 40% excise tax. That tax is not scheduled to take effect until 2018, if ever.

          • barry1817 says:

            your figures are not accurate. The debt with G.B as stated by B.O., which he called unpatriotic and irresponsible was from $5 Trillion to $10 Trillion.

            With B.O. the debt has gone from $10 Trillion to over $17 Trillion.

            As to stimulus package, you may recall that B.O. told us that if no stimulus was done, the projections would all be better now than they actually are, and the stimulus didn’t do anything save add debt, as the money didn’t go to shovel ready jobs, but was used to pay off political cronies.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Just where do you think the US debt comes from anyway? US debt comes from deficits and interest on loans, and deficits and interest comes from unbalanced budgets and unfunded expenditures.

            Let me hear you claim that Barack Obama caused massive deficits rather than simply inherited them. You may try to explain the effects of 2 unfunded wars (Afghanistan & Iraq) on deficits and debt — if you can.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Barry, the Federal government fiscal year starts October st and ends in September. President Obama’s first budget was FY10. George W. Bush’s last budget was FY09, which began October 1, 2008.
            The following highlights national debt accumulation by FY, which would be better represented by percentages since these numbers don’t take into consideration currency valuations or cost of living:
            2013 – $16.7
            2012 – $16
            2011 – $14.8
            2010 – $13.5 (Obama’s first budget)
            2009 – $11.9
            2008 – $10
            2007 – $9
            2006 – $8.5
            2005 – $7.9
            2004 – $7.3
            2003 – $6.8
            2002 – $6.2
            2001 – $5.8
            Regarding your claim about using government programs to help cronies, you may want to take a look at the sole source contracts given to Halliburton, Bechtel, Blackwater USA, and other Friends of Bush in Iraq. While you are at it, you may want to elaborate a bit more on the allegation of stimulus package monies going to “Obama’s cronies”.

          • barry1817 says:

            If you don’t like the words as directly spoken by the B.,O. that is fine. I cited the words he said.

            As to a budget, does this country even have a budget with this president, because last I looked there is no budget that has been approved, but CRs that keep raising the debt ceiling.

    • Dominick Vila says:

      You may want to do a little research into the Employer Subsidized Insurance issue, which the 40% excise tax would eliminate. The ESI approach was the direct result of wages being frozen during WWII. To offset the effect of the wage freeze Congress allowed employers to shift funds to healthcare plans, including the so-called Cadillac plans enjoyed mostly by upper management and millionaires.
      So, why are we now, 70 years after the ESI legislation passed, still fighting to preserve something that adds cost to the healthcare system and that is unnecessary at a time when employers are free to raise wages? Why do we still have an ESI subsidy that costs $250 billion a year in lost revenues?
      Considering our current circumstances, the ESI subsidy encourages overspending in health care by allowing money to be taken out of the normal wage tax structure and put into a safe haven when it is spent on health plans and it is, therefore, regressive.

      By the way, State and local government workers often find part of their wages tied directly to the SUBSIDIZED cost of their health benefits.

  17. Khanski says:

    My insurance rates went up 35%.
    I couldn’t keep my doctor.
    I didn’t save the $2500 that was promised.
    That’s how the Affordable Care Act is “working”.

    • EriktheRed says:

      Oh well…thankfully it’s not all about you.

    • barry1817 says:

      but Harry Reid said that you are lying because you aren’t really paying more and you are just lying to attack B.O. because you are racist. So I guess harry knows your income and your check book better than you do, because harry would never lie and play politics, especially after he made sure congress didn’t have to play by the same rules as you do.

      Best to you, sorry that others wanted to steal from you, and make your life so much more difficult, in the name of fairness.

      But I bet that you also paid more federal income tax than some 35,000,000 Americans combined and that isn’t fair either, as they want you to pay more to cover those that pay nothing, and think that a tax return should go to those that pay nothing into the system.

      • Khanski says:

        Eric the Red seems to have missed my point that I was lied to about Obamacare. Evidently, he excuses authoritarian rule even as it lies to him.

        Schools really should teach logic and emphasize common-sense and reason but then, most are government run and the results are in.

        • EriktheRed says:

          Nothing authoritarian about it. It was passed lawfully by people who ran on passing a HC reform law, upheld (mostly) by the Supreme Court, and we had an election where it was one of the main issues and it was won by those who wish to keep it going.

          And again, it ain’t all about you. A lot of people are benefitting by finally getting coverage they didn’t have access to before.

    • idamag says:

      Tell me your insurance company and who your doctor was so I can research it myself.

      • Wally Konstanty says:

        That’s what I need; someone I don’t know looking into my personal information. Would you like my social security number and computer password as well? You do realize how absurd your request is? If you don’t then give me your information.

        It’s no secret that many people have had higher premium rates and have lost their doctors because of the Affordable Care Act. If you are in denial about this then you live in an alternative universe.

  18. barry1817 says:

    In response to posting 2 recent stories about health care problems, one Ohio teachers threatening to strike because they are going to lose their cadillac care plans, and in California, the exchange not providing care as provided, and leaving people in limbo with no coverage and bills to be paid, I get a response from a person that won’t speak about the issues, but goes into name calling

    his post is as follows. ” I don’t debate with bigots, so insults is about all you;’re going to get If you had an arguments that weren’t motivated by bigoted hate I might actually pay attention but you don’t and I won’t. ”

    So this person calls another person a bigot because I posted 2 stories that run counter to the media attempt to say obamacare is successful.

    Then I mentioned that the president by his own words, is both unpatriotic and irresponsible. This being based on his own words where he said that President Bush running the debt from $5 Trillion to $9 Trillion was both unpatriotic and irresponsible. The logical extrapolation is that if a person calls a person unpatriotic and irresponsible for increasing the debt by $4 Trillion, then increasing the debt by more than $7 Trillion has to be equally problematic.

    Nowhere did I use race, so this poster claims that I am bigoted because I cite 2 newspaper stories, and use B.O.’s own words to highlight his problems.

    And then this poster, continuing with his personal attacks goes on to say that I should “kindly go back to your trailer and guzzle some Bud, kick the dog, hump your sister or whatever it is that you rednecks do to keep yourself occupied, but quit trying to bore me to death And don’t forget to wash, for the love of God.”

    So this is what passes for intelligent discussion.

    So I leave it to you, the readers to enjoy the vile diatribe that was posted and ask yourself if you want to debate with name calling or on issues, because, for those interested in an honest debate on issues, you know from the rules of debate that personal attacks shows the lack of intelligence, the lack of logic and the lack of a coherent thought process, and has lost the debate and the issue with the first personal attack.

  19. daniel155 says:

    The author builds a whole article around a Democratic candidate for governor who is running a campaign where he comes out in favor of the ACA. Now, is he going to win?

    • adp3d says:

      “In crimson-red Alabama…”

      • daniel155 says:

        Is he going to win?

        If you really want a tough job then try and find out who funds The National Memo.

        • joe schmo says:

          WOW! George Soros……go figure:) Thanks for the info daniel155. Like I always say….. we tend to resort ot factual info. Liberals just get led around by the nose. Again….an I told you so moment….

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Redneck goober wouldn’t know a fact if it came up and bit them in the ass, and it wouldn’t matter anyway because they are the world’s biggest liars. Let’s start with using the name ‘Joe Schmo’ when you are a female.

            Liar.

          • daniel155 says:

            I did some research on who funds The National
            Memo and it was tough. I finally found an article where the founder of the NM was asked that question and he refused to answer. That speaks volumes. It sure is not funded by advertising or subscriptions. So, I suspect Joe is right until proven wrong.

            I welcome any other input on who funds The National Memo.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Nobody is right until proven wrong — that’s idiotic.

          • daniel155 says:

            Then who funds The National Memo?

          • joe schmo says:

            daniel155, they won’t answer you because they won’t look it up or won’t admit to it even if they are wrong. They only have tunnel vision as the government holds their hands. They almost NEVER answer questions, ever.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Now David and Charles are both getting impatient. Get out on your corner and get busy — NOW!

          • daniel155 says:

            Just admit it. The National Memo is bought and paid for by large Democratic contributors. Look at the partisan nature of the articles.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Where is your ‘extensive research’? Let’s have it, liar.

          • daniel155 says:

            Are you saying The National Memo is balanced and non-partisan? Do you think it funds itself by advertising and subscriptions.

            The founder refuses to release information on who funds it and refused to disclose it when he was asked that in an interview. Normally, when people act like that, they are covering something up.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Proof. You said you did ‘extensive research’, so where’s your proof? Admit it: You got caught in a lie.

          • daniel155 says:

            Do you think The National Memo survives on its own without outside funding?

            The only source is the founder of The National Memo and he refuses to answer questions about who actually funds The National Memo.

            You can’t just check your brain in at the door just because you can’t find black and white evidence. At some point you have to use logic to make inferences. But that seems beyond you.

            Have a great day!

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Refusal to answer a question doesn’t prove what the answers is, you liar. You claimed to have read an article that proved something — at least to you — so go ahead and paste a link to that article and we can all decide for ourselves the quality of your ‘logic’. If you can’t even do this then just shut up and stop lying.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            You tell us. You worked so hard to do the research yet posting your sources here is too much work for you, eh?

          • joe schmo says:

            Well, you never do upload anything factual. See my answer below….

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Actually I do, but I just don’t believe in wasting my time with bigots who aren’t interested in facts — like you.

          • joe schmo says:

            He did the research moron….what didn’t you get. I also looked it up. You just spew crap out of your mouths. it’s like building a house on a non-solid foundation,

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Anyone can ‘look things up’ in the Internet. All it takes is another redneck bigot like you to post it somewhere. If he has proof, then let him present it here.

          • joe schmo says:

            I can write all about what I know, but the problem is you wouldn’t believe my statements whether they come from life experience or someone else’s, wisdom or world knowledge, history or books or even media. Having said that, all the attributes mentioned are useful in counteracting untruths.

            Remember….’knowledge is power’ and when you cannot relate an important topic or discuss a prevalent issue then my belief is that your knowledge base is very narrow-minded, non-creative and dysfunctional.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            L-I-A-R. In one respect, I do admire you. Your “house” of cards is built entirely on hot air with no foundation at all. And you can do it again and again. Wow! A whole fake subdivision!

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Proof. Post a link to your article.

          • joe schmo says:

            LOL, you wish. Sorry with that kind of language, I am almost positive I am ten times more educated than you will ever be. I am no woman. I can assure you of that:)

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            We already know that you aren’t, now don’t we?

            Now get back out on your corner and drum up some business. David Koch is getting impatient with you, and you wouldn’t want that, oh no!

          • joe schmo says:

            Thank God, I know all about business. Actually come from a long line of very successful hardworking business people:) That’s the problem with you liberals you rely way to heavily on Father Government….

            No sense in dealing with you progressives. You really no longer want to meet in the middle and that is where the problems lie….. If things don’t change we WILL go the way of Egypt, Greece, Rome and Great Britain…

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I have worked a lot of jobs, and I have found few “hard working business people.” Most are lazy redistributors that hate the average citizen. I can tell you would fit in well on that list. Anything, and anyone, that resists you getting what you want, and any kind of fair play for the people that actually make your money for you, has got to be turned into road kill on your highway to wealth.

            You know, I am just a lowly employee that posts on breaks and lunch, but such a “hard working business” pr*ck like yourself, sure seems to have a lot of free time. Wonder why. . . (That is not a question.)

          • elw says:

            “I am no woman” Oh, that sounds real educated.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            At least no one said “it” was a lady. The laughter from that would have crippled me for the rest of the day.

          • elw says:

            Yes you have to admit, that if they are nothing else the right on this blog can be very entertaining.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            One thing about our wackjob whores. They generally are men, but I can name three right now that claimed to be female when they thought it would advance their lies.

            I don’t think any of these trolls is paid, and certainly none of them are very bright. In fact, they all show signs of certain mental illnesses. Yet, the central point in all their postings is, they are attention whores that get a nut by breaking up discussions. It does not matter how, just so long as they can do it. They are not trying to bait us to post to them, like many think, they are trying to get us to hush, while they “scent mark” our blogs with their filth.

          • drdroad says:

            RIGHT!! Fox News and the Heritage Foundation. Not to mention Newsmax. Factual. Right. And I guess you still believe The President wasn’t born in Hawaii. Yep, Factual.

          • joe schmo says:

            Weren’t able to prove that one accurately were you? ….Whats worse and American based Foundation that looks after the rights of Americans or a Globalist crook who uses other countries monetary systems to destroy them:)

          • Russell Byrd says:

            If you mean the Kochroaches, then you must support their vision of a Fascist America where only those with big money have any rights.

            Do you realize that Buffett and Gates alone make more than 10 times the true charitable contributions of all right-wing billionaires. I was going to call them right-wackjobs, but the raw truth is, they know what they are doing by using such as you to do their bidding.

            When, and if, you finally get the Kochroaches vision for America, you will find that you are absolutely worthless in their eyes.

          • daniel155 says:

            But you guys wail about the Koch brothers and then take more money from big liberal contributors. You can’t have it both ways.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            If you have some proof to post — go ahead and post it.

          • daniel155 says:

            Democrats have raised more than $25 million more for Senate races than Republicans have–Democratic fundraiser Joe Trippi on Fox News Sunday

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Where is your proof about who funds the National Memo? After all, you worked SO hard to research it you’d think that you would be proud to post your references. Let’s have ’em.

          • daniel155 says:

            Read the partisan nature of the headlines for National Memo articles on this page and you can infer who is funding it. It sure is not making in in the free market.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Proof. You claim you did the research. Where’s the proof? Sources? Anything at all besides partisan anecdotes?

          • joe schmo says:

            Why are you prompting us with proof. We already know what we have found. All you have to type in is ‘who is funding The National Memo?’ You never give any factual information. Just blow hot air out of your behind. Instead of being lazy, why not look it up yourself. Now there’s a concept….

          • Russell Byrd says:

            So, you admit you are lying. We already knew that. I wish there were a treatment for your allergy to truth, but there isn’t.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I typed it in, and I did not find much of anything. You should have at least took a clue from one of your own liars. Hint: It’s not easy to find.

          • joe schmo says:

            I found it but I’m good at researching. That is part of my job description. Soros doesn’t want you to know he is involved…. Does that make sense? Go up 7 posts and you will find the answer. daniel155 posted it for you….

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Well, you lied about being good at researching, because you have never found any evidence.

            You also lie about dipshit daniel finding anything. There is nothing there. I not only read every post, but I just re-read them. Nothing there.

            Oh, that’s right, another liberal conspiracy to confound you by telling the truth. You fucksticks go into allergic shock when the truth is told.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Let me give you a lesson, not only in truth and honesty, but in common sense as well.

            If Soros funds Memo, GOOD FOR HIM! GOOD FOR US! The bullshit “does not work with me.” The fact that you despise the truth cuts no mustard with me. What an arrogant, ignorant SOB like you needs to do, is something I do on every post. Remember that your viewpoint is not necessarily right just because you want it to be and it pleases you.

            No need to thank me for the lesson.

          • Ed Portela says:

            daniel155: Whoever is funding it should be spending his money getting better columnists than the ones who write the NM articles. They should fire the likes of Conason, Dionne and Cynthia Tucker who are Obama UNCONDITIONALS (read wh*res).
            Just as an example (a funny one) of this columnist’s ineptness is her title to her story:
            “Obamacare Is Not The Disaster It Was Predicted To Be”
            That’s soooo funnyyy!! It is like saying: “Caesar’s Wife Is Not As Whorish as She Was Predicted To Be”
            LOL !!!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            But, but, guess what, “Obamacare Is Not The Disaster It Was Predicted To Be.”

            I think that is all that needs to be said. Except maybe, get your head out of the Kochroaches derriere. You are in so deep, if one of them rounds a corner to fast, you will break your neck.

          • Louis Allen says:

            Russell, you “male” prostitute, is that you again?
            Did you leave your boyfriend at long last?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            The fact is, people like me fund National Memo. And if the articles are poorly written because they contain factual truth, and that offends you, I suggest you find a more fertile field for you to parade your ideas in. And a heavily manured field it will certainly be.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I don’t infer when I can prove conclusively that you are a liar.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            His entire research consisted of examining the paper the last time he wiped his arse.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Bullshit. The fact that it was on Faux Noise, the channel that is willing to sue to ensure its right to lie, makes that false even without a double check.

          • drdroad says:

            My reply had nothing to do with Soros and/or Koch. Both sides have their big contributors. It was the term ‘factual’, like only conservatives want factual information. Koch away, it seems to not really matter much anyway.

          • daniel155 says:

            Funding something like The National Memo is another way of making a contribution.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Proof, please, or just stop lying.

          • daniel155 says:

            Do you think The National Memo could survive on its own without someone else funding it?

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Proof. Let’s have it, you lying bigot.

          • joe schmo says:

            That’s because you like most others here, never prove anything in your posts.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Both sides take money from rich contributors, but only the Kochroaches want to turn America into their very own Fascist paradise.

            And as far as the funding, Democrats are being outspent in almost every race. Often as high a four to one, and several it is ten to one. The only real exception was the Presidential campaign, and your mob still contributed more. Most Democrat contributions come from average people.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Except, we know you just made that up.

  20. Justice Juice says:

    Eleven Deaths Linked To Obamacare – Critical Patients Die Waiting For Approval. And this report is a year old, there are many many more. So it IS a disaster indeed.
    http://nationalreport.net/eleven-deaths-linked-obamacare-critical-patients-die-waiting-approval/#sthash.gfwanP4E.dpuf

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Yes, and that report was proven false and discredited over a year ago too. That was libel made to order to feed the right-wackjob propaganda machine.

      “National Report,” really? They claim to be independent, but they have the heads of Cruz and Palin, in other words, two lying nutters, right on their masthead.

      The article was faked to attack Obama. Get over it.

      • Justice Juice says:

        Obamacare class-action suit opens a new legal front – Nevada plaintiffs: They paid, but weren’t covered, By Tom Howell Jr. – The Washington Times – Wednesday, April 23, 2014. Obama doesn’t want you to know that he’s learning on the job and people are dying…..in Nevada: The lawsuit started out with two named plaintiffs, although the class has swelled to 45 people.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          Right-wackjob funded lawsuit that actually should be aimed at private health care providers. This lawsuit is about some a-hole local right-wacko “geniuses” trying to bring down something that works, out of a mixture of racism and plain hatred.

          Obamacare mandates certain things in a health care plan, and subsidizes the plan with federal dollars, but private insurers run the day to day operation of caring for the plan holder. So, maybe we should counter sue your supporters.

          And 45 people is suspiciously small, especially when one considers all the lies your side has been caught telling about the ACA.

          • Justice Juice says:

            obamacare is failing because it is a financial disaster, no communications, no safe-guards and people are dying. You can have your “mixture of racism and plain hatred” to keep you warm at night. The public laughs at the word ‘racist’ now. It means nothing.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Every point you just tried to make is a vacuous lie. There is nothing behind anything you say except, your “mixture of racism and plain hatred.”

            So, keep warm.

          • joe schmo says:

            You have just stated what I have been saying all along about racism. Thank you:) That is, there will be a time when politically correct and racist will no longer matter. We simply won’t care.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Before the ACA, a number of well-done studies, including by government agencies, concluded that as high as 17,000 people would die from a lack of insurance. So, like I said below, this law suit is bogus bull shit designed to create a lot of noise, and distract attention with smoke and mirrors.

    • joe schmo says:

      Yes, and this will only continue. Pretty soon only the wealthy people like Obama will be able to afford quality health care.

  21. Justice Juice says:

    Obamacare should be renamed to ObamaCarelessness.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      It is working. Get over the race hatred.

      • Justice Juice says:

        No, obamacare is NOT working. A lot of free abortions are occuring, however.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          Second lie first. There are no abortions being performed. Please prove otherwise. That is, without the “usual” sources that have already been discredited before you started your rampage of untruth. Also, I am pro-choice. What a woman does with her body is not my business, and certainly not yours, so you sure won’t shame me one d*mn bit with that Buster.

          Obamacare is working. That is what is being discussed. Please prove otherwise without again using already debunked nonsense. Prove what you say, from mainstream media, and with more than a couple of cites. Otherwise STFU. Of course, you will be back without facts, because you have the right to tell whoppers, though you would deny the rest of us the right to tell the truth.

          Face it, you are a racist that hates Obama. You probably are a self-important pr*ck that thinks everyone that you think is unworthy, should just die at your convenience.

    • joe schmo says:

      Good one!

    • charleo1 says:

      That’s what the Country needs. Another Right Wing smart ass.
      Well, actually we don’t. What the Right needs is some truth serum.
      As insurance cos. must spend 80% of premiums collected, on the
      healthcare of their policyholders, or return the money. And the healthcare providers, venders, and drug cos. are seeing more insured customers, and less indigent, and uninsured. Why would premiums on comparable plans increase 40/50%? When it was the uninsured, and indigent care, that was weighing down the system. It’s clear, you’re wishing for failure, and selectively believing that which you want to believe. Not what makes common sense. And why would a person pay for a policy that wouldn’t make any difference as to their financial situation? It’s cheap, and they don’t know any better. Now why would anyone want to support that situation? Answer: They’re Right Wingers that care more about winning, and doing what’s best for their Party, than their fellow citizens, and their Country.

  22. Justice Juice says:

    Can’t wait for obama’s next great idea……LOLOL. He needs to concentrate on his golf game; accruing personal wealth; and staying on vacation.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      So, you are talking about Dick Cheney? Right? Oh, Cheney doesn’t play golf, he just shoots his “friends.”

      • Justice Juice says:

        Obama shoots skeet all the time. Do you believe that?

        • Russell Byrd says:

          I think you are being disingenuous. A more direct response would be “dishonest.”

          Shooting skeet, and believing in gun control are far from incompatible. Like myself, I am a multiple gun owner, but I now believe gun ownership must be severely restricted. Much more so that anything Obama will ever propose. Like, giving you a gun? now that is insane.

          As far as shooting skeet all the time. Who ever said ALL the time. Does he shoot skeet? I would say yes. All the time, I would say, probably not, but I would need more data. Skeet is more of upper crust shooters game, and has often been engaged in by past presidents.

          So, I take your question about like the eighth grade joke about, “is the closet a good place to masturbate?” There is no answer to a question that begs an answer.

          • idamag says:

            The skeet clay pigeons do not feel pain. They have no families to mourn them when they are shot to pieces. They aren’t attending theaters, cafes, malls and schools and they are made for the purpose of shooting at.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Quite true. Unlike the foaming at the mouth loonies that practically scream at you that they can’t wait to shoot someone.

            These goons confuse a game with the seriousness of shooting at living, breathing targets. Like I’ve said, I am a gun owner myself, but we need some very serious gun control. If for no other reason than to stop treasonous behavior and save the Republic from violent lunatics. There entire world outlook smacks of a serious paranoid condition. And we should let them keep guns?

          • idamag says:

            Every time you pick up a paper there is something that proves some people should not be allowed guns. I have guns, but I don’t take them out in public with my jaw jutting out looking for someone to kill. A Utah county made it a law that all teachers must carry guns. Two weeks ago, a teacher’s gun went off while she was in the rest room. It was the commode that got destroyed. What if she had been standing over a child’s desk?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            We must regain control before this Nation disintegrates into a group of armed camps. We are already the pariah of the world. The only reason that we have any support against ISIS is the world sees them as a greater danger, and we hold the purse strings to the world economies. It certainly is not because we have the good of the world in mind.

            Your bit about the teacher and the loaded gun. I have heard it enough from the gun nuts that the life of a few children is meaningless in their pursuit of putting “a gun in every pot.”

          • joe schmo says:

            They also don’t have a brain or are misguided by our now decadent liberal world…..

          • Justice Juice says:

            NYTimes, August 2012 headline:
            President Claims Shooting as a Hobby, and the White House Offers Evidence. “Yes, in fact, up at Camp David, we do skeet shooting all the time,” Mr. Obama said.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Troll Juice, you are just stirring shit for absolutely no purpose. So, what if he shoots, or what if he doesn’t. You are once again trying to make a point that has absolutely no meaning. Just so you can make another wild, neurotic claim about something else.

            I own a cabinet full of guns, and I know loony-tunes like you need to have your’s removed. You are just too nutty. So, shooting, or being a gun owner, is not at all incompatible with being for strong gun control. In fact, if history teaches anything, being for strong gun control to disarm the nutters like you, will go a long way to preserving the Second Amendment. Without common sense control, someday the American people will get sick of all the killing and ban guns altogether.

          • Justice Juice says:

            But we both agree that obama has only pretended to shoot skeet once, and that was the meme extravaganza. But it was only once. So he lied. Why lie?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Troll Juice, WE did not agree to anything, therefore, YOU LIED. We both don’t know the answer. In any case, of what importance is this make believe digression into fantasy land anyway? Of what value is your off-topic bullshit. You need Obama to lie. So, you will create some for him. Which you can do, because you are an expert at lying.

          • Justice Juice says:

            Did you get to keep your own doctor? LOLOL. Do you know what else is missing? A report of your earnings from the Social Security Department. They stopped coming the day obama was elected (assuming you’re not quite at retirement age).

          • Russell Byrd says:

            YES, FUCKSTICK, I DID.

            And your question is meaningless in the light of the truth. LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE is all you know how to do. The lie was perpetrated by your loving capitalists.

            Those reports can be obtained, and they were a waste of taxpayer dollars, but by the way, I do still get mine.

          • Justice Juice says:

            You really need to watch your language, bryd.

  23. Justice Juice says:

    Predict disaster whenever obama opens his mouth, or gets out the executive order pen. Play the odds against the peace prize winner.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      We are taking odds? No wonder you people are so whacked. You think this is just a game to make that black man fail. And make America fail.

      • Justice Juice says:

        Obama is failing just fine all on his own.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          Actually, Obama is not moving against you America hating losers quickly enough. Even so, he is doing pretty well considering we have a Rumpbuggercon House that is determined not to lead this country. Except to ruin, that is.

          That is why all of you are screaming about Obama being such a tyrant. It is not that he is doing anything wrong, but his executive powers allow him to lead a country that you are trying to destroy for racist, and political purposes. You despise him for that. Articles come out everyday about how executive privileged must be stopped. I say, go, go, go. The true majority of the Nation want our government to work, not be shutdown.

          • Justice Juice says:

            It is never the mark of leader to piggyback hundreds of billions to syria on our appropriations bill. Disgraceful.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Your gang of thugs does it all the time. Motorcycle license bills with contraception riders. So, try again, hypocrite.

          • Justice Juice says:

            Obama has been at the helm for over 6 years. At what point is he leading? Or is the past 6 years been all about Bush?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            My dear Troll Juice, Obama has suffered from the worst opposition that any sitting president has ever had to contend with. It began before he even took office. In other words, no one on your side wanted to work with him, or wait to see what his program was. Obama has been treated worse than all Rumpbuggercon presidents combined. And, it is quite proven that it is white on black racism that is at the heart of a lot of it. But, go ahead and lie about it.

            Yet, Obama has done quite a credible job. He really should have been harder on you scumbags, because trying to deal with you at all is an impossible loser. And since you mention it, YES, the last six years have been about fixing the Bush-Cheney legacy. Take away two unpaid for wars that were started on lies, and the economy would probably be just fine. Now, that you have nearly destroyed the economy, you goons work like maggots to make sure it stays that way. Of course, profits are at an all time high.

          • Justice Juice says:

            This rant seems familiar – are you just hitting copy & paste? : > (

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Maybe sometimes, but what I post, whether original or not, is still the truth and is a direct answer to the off-topic lies you tell.

            So, it is familiar, because I only need to rely on the truth. Which doesn’t change, unlike your lies, that change when convenient.

          • Justice Juice says:

            For your own mental health and well-being, don’t let posters get to you.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You obviously should take your own advice. I am well trained in human nature as well, and I know very well that is a taunt from you because you have too much angst to just STFU. But, you want to look like the cool dude your not.

          • Justice Juice says:

            I’m not a dude, I’m a grandmother. I would never tell a poster what you just did.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Actually, I just enjoy the spectacle of watching you stew in your soup of lies. It also give me good practice to bust everyone of those lies.

          • Justice Juice says:

            Everytime you mention ‘lies’, you’re harming your own credibility. You’re not naive, yet you must honestly think that only democrats tell the truth.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Have you noticed a pattern that you come here and do not read the articles, make no attempt to post on-topic, constantly, post after post, violate the terms of service, use a constant barrage of lies, and actually never really reply to a question.

            On the other hand, I always do reply, and with the truth, as well. You do not have a chance. So, maybe you should give up before you come to injury. Stroke out, maybe.

          • Justice Juice says:

            I do not violate the terms of service. I read the articles. Posters have the right to split off on tangents or threads that have nothing to do with the original story. As for lies – it’s the internet. Grow up.

          • idamag says:

            I doubt that they can read and comprehend. They never come on here to discuss the topic, just the canned rhetoric of the koch brothers.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            That is one of the things that angers and disheartens me. They try to set the tone of the discussion with their off-topic blather.

            A couple of ago, I made several posts to the National Review. No foul language, and I gave information and citations as to why the article was gone. About three people replied to one of my posts. When I returned, ALL of my posts were gone, and every, and I mean every, liberal comment and blogger had been removed.

            And they yell about freedom of speech. But Memo needs to take a lesson from that. If this blog is going to survive, they need to start selectively removing abusers, rather than let them have free rein. I have noticed that Memo is going downward, and I think that is the entire problem.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Remember, gun ownership has been dropping for years. The QUANTITY of guns has increased greatly, as has their lethality, but total households with guns is down below 40% now. They are getting tired of all the guns, bloodshed, and lawless, threatening loonies. Like you.

            Does this help you?

          • Justice Juice says:

            I’m speechless. No where in your rambling incoherent post, did you ever mention Bush.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            In this post, I obviously did not mention Bush. You are such a lying fuckstick, you cannot even keep them straight.

            And what in blazes does Bush have to do with this thread? Oh yeah, you brought him up in a lame attempt to defend him, and slander Obama. But, you only remind everyone of the criminality of Bush.

          • Justice Juice says:

            Oh yes…..Bush. There it is.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Duh!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Now read, it is not hard for someone out of the fifth grade. Sorry. . . but my post certainly was not incoherent. It answered your lie, and is based on facts that any moron can assemble in minutes.

            “Remember, gun ownership has been dropping for years. The QUANTITY of guns has increased greatly, as has their lethality, but total households with guns is down below 40% now. They are getting tired of all the guns, bloodshed, and lawless, threatening loonies. Like you.”

            Does this help you?

          • Justice Juice says:

            I don’t buy your premise that ownership has been dropping. Since obama got elected, the opposite is true.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I thank you for your observation that racists are arming themselves out of hatred for the black president. Whether you deny or not, that is the truth.

            As to your objection, go look it up. The data is rock solid. Guns are losing popularity.

            Another fable the right loves. We liberals are not armed. Boy, is that ever untrue.

            Another point, now the streets are full of people packing guns. All the nutters have automatic weapons, and God now what. My grandfather only owned one gun his entire life, and he was a life-long farmer, and a 50 year railroad worker. He had a long barreled ten gauge shotgun. My father only owned one gun in his life. A Walther he brought home from Europe. Do you see what I am getting at. Normal people do not need all the guns to be safe, and certainly, living with constant paranoid delusions of fear cannot be much fun. Of course, I have a number of guns, but I don’t fondle them and mistake them for my pecker.

            LMAO!

          • Justice Juice says:

            People bought guns in mass quantities because they were afriad that obama would enforce his verbage about his knee-jerk reaction to guns in general. It had nothing to do with the color of his skin. And, like everyone feared, he tried to control the market, and then the run on ammo began. So everyone’s fears were justified, as it turns out.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Makes no sense. I am armed, so if Obama is going to ban guns, I would want to be an even bigger violator. In fact, you just exposed the worst aspect of this sad episode in the existence of America. You are leading into a charge of insurrection and treason. That is not just crazy, and is even worse than racism for the future of the country.

            And the penalty for those crimes, is death, and it damn well should be.

          • Justice Juice says:

            The insecurity (treason) that you speak of, is only a rumor…..a worst case scenario type rumor. As I’ve said before, any commander who gives the order to disarm Americans, will have given his last order. Meaning, his troops will not carry out that order, and will tape him to a chair instead. I can’t see America ever reaching this point in its history or in my lifetime.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            The military can and WILL follow their orders:

            Because they swore an oath.
            Because those to be disarmed will represent a clear and present danger, as they say.

            Some few will certainly be rednecks that are bound to disobey. They will be dealt with per the U.M.C.

            Most likely, with the crazed stupidity of the gun nutters, the American people will demand disarming of them. Much sooner than you think. The vast majority of Americans actually support sensible gun control. Almost everyone supports background checks. And, I can say with certainty, that gun ownership by sane, responsible people will never be in danger. Yet, who is doing all the complaining? Those very crazed, nutters.

            You should come out into the light and actually quit living in your plastic, fantastic, la-la land.

          • Justice Juice says:

            An order to disarm Americans is an unlawful order, soldier.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You just can’t quit trolling, can you, you self-admitted liar. (I still can’t figure that one out. I guess the admission is due to the same reason you lie so much. The “other” person does not count in your world, in mine, that “other” is everything.)

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Do you have any last words before we carry out the sentence for sedition and treason? No LIES please, sorry. . . . Okay.

            Men, at the ready . . . take aim . . . fire!!!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I also notice, you do not post to what I say, or my reasoning. You just seem to post to some warped ideal that is not even part of the discussion.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            And shithead, you brought up Bush. Just another off-topic diversion.

          • Justice Juice says:

            No. All the stats prove just the opposite. Don’t get too scared now.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You didn’t check, did you? Bwahahahahahahahaha!

            And I am not the least bit skeered!

            No last word, I am afraid. Try harder. It still won’t matter, but it makes things more fun for me.

          • Justice Juice says:

            No offense, but I’m not in a place that I want to use the computer to look up those stats.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Then, why did you lie. I am telling you in all sincerity, if you came to actually discuss the topic at hand. That is, the article’s topic. That you at least made an attempt to read it, and you made informed polite posts based on that, then if you got a bunch of crap, I might not support you, but I would stand up for your right to speak. And I would do it repeatedly.

            Rather than to enumerate the points that follow from the problems with your trolling presence, I will just say, you are getting exactly the ride you paid for. A rough one.

            Since you actually admitted your fault, I am going to conclude my session with you. Unless of course, you tell me some more whoppers, or jump down my throat. I do try to be honest in all things. There is unfortunately little reward for that, and I am far from perfect, but that is what I put foremost. The truth.

            So, it is all yours.

          • Justice Juice says:

            Thanks for the discourse at least. I think obamacare will be dismantled (perhaps some parts will stay intact, like coverage for pre-existing conditions), but not much of it can withstand permanent subsidies and the preventative side is hefty, too.

      • joe schmo says:

        Nope, remember i voted for him in 2008. At the moment, I am reading Dr. Ben Carson’s book called ‘The Nation.’ Excellent read. You might relearn something about America. David Webb is one of my favorite news and radio personalities. Racist game won’t work with me, sorry:)

        • Russell Byrd says:

          Ever hear of the little boy that cried wolf? Well, no one here believes that nonsense. You are a right-wacktard “lever” puller. If Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini ran as Rumpbuggers, you would just think you had a dream ticket.

          As far as Ben Carson, he has nothing to teach except bigotry and stupid. You like him because you can falsely claim WE are racist when we attack your token darkie.

          And, you are a racist. That is the real difference between us. You want dominance. I am just here to see you frustrated. Unlike yourself, I do not for one minute think that the truth will get through to your lying ass. But, as I said, you are a racist.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          Consider, like a common criminal, if we did not have laws, we would not “get through” to them either. So, it is really irrelevant what you think.

    • joe schmo says:

      Yah, Peace Prize winner? Can’t figure that one out. What is he doing in this country to keep peace between all of us…..Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

  24. Bobloblaw67 says:

    It isnt even fully implemented yet. Million were forced onto Obamacare and had their insurance cancelled. Premiums and deductibles are higher.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      B-u-l-l-s-h-i-t. We keep being told that, but no one seems to be able to name anyone that actually is paying a higher premium, or has a higher deductible. We only here that nonsense from Teabuggers that are trying to make a scene. “Like I only paid $149 a month, now I pay $2200.” Yeah right. You people cannot even make up believable lies.

      • barry1817 says:

        My insurance premium went up by $200/month with a letter that the cost increase was a direct result of Obamacare legislation.

        And the Ohio teachers, that were mentioned in the article will see per obamacaare legislation a 40% cost increase, because those taxes are built into the system for those that have what is called cadillac coverage.

        But you can call it BS all you want, but that doesn’t change the facts.

        Nor is it changing the facts that in Cal. people are suing because the exchange is failing them.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          B-u-l-l-s-h-i-t. Barry, we have all been through this before.

          And lying asshole, the insurance companies are getting sued by policy holders BECAUSE they are not meeting the ACA’s requirements. Check the LA Times. I should not have to keep straightening out your lies.

          WHY? Why do you have to lie so routinely? Why? If you are so discontented, put your gun in your mouth and pull the trigger. Then your “successor” could blame Obamacare for not reviving you.

          • joe schmo says:

            Why do we all seem to be liars to you. Because we are not. You just don’t want to see what is right in front of you and that you are being lied to by that smooth talking sales ‘Man’ and your media.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Why, because you are. As well, when a liar denies he is a liar, well guess what, he is by definition a liar.

            No, the lack of civility is do to your lying. Sound evidence destroys your positions, over and over. What is your response, just move on to the next blog and tell the same lies all over again.

            All you want to do is troll and harass. You convince no one. But you do one service that you are too fuckstick stupid to figure out. Your lying, trolling, bullying behavior recruits for us, and ensures that our people are resolved to go vote and speak out. So, thanks for that.

            If you doubt that truth, just look at the presidential election result! You shits would vote for another Adolf Hitler, come Hell or high water, so nothing is gained. Yet, when neutral people hear your lies, they vote for our people. LOL!

        • joe schmo says:

          Bingo! Premiums went way up. Even democrats are screaming:)

      • idamag says:

        I remember Obama selecting a bi-partisan group to come up with a healthcare plan. He challenged some orange colored person to get his party acting on it. The Democrats in the bi-partisan group came up with suggestions (it was on C-span) and the Republicans just said it wouldn’t work.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          That has always been the problem, hasn’t it. We suggest solutions, they say they won’t work. But drop a quarter on the floor and they will trample you in a race to scoop it up. I just don’t know what to make of that gang. Sad.

          • idamag says:

            Without proof, It is just another lie about his insurance premiums going up. Probably one of those takers who let the taxpayers pay for his medical costs in the emergency room and this is the first time he has had to buy insurance.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Oh yes, we are very much in agreement. You hit this nasty little nail on its lying little head.

            Have you ever noticed that when you predict their behavior, these louts will rush to say or do exactly that. Is it they cannot, or will not read? Or is it they just are not smart enough to understand and they do not have another one of their little “cards” to play?

          • joe schmo says:

            You never supply proof. Why does this surprise me. We always have to do the work for you ‘UNION’ minded people.

            http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/13/just-when-you-thought-obamacare-couldnt-surprise-y.aspx

            …..and you thought I was kidding. From the article…..

            “President Obama’s claim last spring that 8 million people had enrolled in ObamaCare recently got a significant downgrade from the head
            of the agency overseeing the plan.

            Marilyn Tavenner, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, told a congressional committee that “as of August 15,
            this year, we have 7.3 million Americans enrolled in Health Insurance Marketplace coverage and these are individuals who paid their premiums.”

            A key part of her statement was Tavenner’s reference to those who paid, because just signing up isn’t enough to be counted as enrolled.

            For instance, state officials in Florida say their enrollments are now 220,000 lower than the administration’s count in April, going from some
            983,000 to just over 762,000, a drop of more than 20 percent.

            n fact, Mark Bertolini, the CEO of Aetna, the nation’s third largest insurer, said recently that his company had 720,000 people sign up for
            exchange coverage as of May 20, but only 600,000 turned out to be paying customers.

            He added he expects that number to fall to “just over 500,000” by theend of the year. That would leave Aetna’s paid enrollment down some 30
            percent from its original sign-up numbers.

            The Congressional Budget Office is predicting 13 million total enrollments at the end of the next open enrollment in February 2015. So
            the number they’re starting from makes a big difference:

            “If we’ve got closer to 6 million enrolled,” Laszewski said, “they’d have to enroll more people in 2015 than they did this past year.”

            As usual you are being lied to once again by your Man and your media. Look it up….

          • angelsinca says:

            It sounds like you haven’t paid for your own insurance or had to suffer through increased deductibles or rising co-pays, as in the REAL world since the flawed ppACA became law.

            At our company meeting Tuesday, HR announced our health insurance premiums were going up ANOTHER 15% at the end of the month (after a similar increase in the spring). But they were to to pick up 10% of that increase.

            Please don’t accuse people of lying about their HC premiums when you are obviously not telling the truth. Or, you just don’t know the truth. The saddest part about the supporters of the ACA with their very few anecdotal stories to support the flawed ACA is that they offer no promise or hope to fix the admitted flaws.

            The republican plans are shunned. At this point, since the Dems won’t support corrections, and wait for the Scotus to tell them where they’ve been unconstitutional again, then the only corrective action is a full repeal. Otherwise just fix it the pos and stop making excuses for its flaws.

    • joe schmo says:

      Just heard on the news tonight that there were less sign-ups than Obama said (100,000) less and many people already have dropped out. Floridians have really kicked Obamacare to the curb. Have friends in Florida who refuse to sign up unless there is a catastrophe. In 2015, Obama wants to have 13 million signed up. Well it’s up to 700,000. The news says it will be harder to make it up to that 600,000. I can assure you that many that signed up are on Medical. I know this to be a fact in my state. We are a liberal state and we have the most poverty….

    • idamag says:

      Do you ever study? When it was coming into place, a lot of “insurance” companies sprung into being that were junk policies. Did you mean millions or did you forget to put an s after million? I think you need to prove premiums and deductibles are higher. Rather than go back to what we had before the ACA, let’s get some intelligent people, in Washington, and fix the problems. At least we have something, now, that we can fix.

  25. barry1817 says:

    and people should be shunning Whuthesaid, because he posts are vile personal attacks on others, that have no place in civil discourse.

    His last comment was “Why do’t you two racist refugees from WND go back to that bigot-board and jerk each other off. We do have some standards here, you know.”

    Would be funny if this poster wasn’t so sad, wasn’t projecting his own racism and bigotry onto others. And he speaks of standards when he degrades this site with his vile posts.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Actually, Whuthesaid is a stellar poster. What else is there to do when those that come to spew dishonesty in a blog that posts truth supposed to do? When someone lies at every post, THAT is an insult. Ever notice that all the articles here have a liberal bent. The real reason for that is truth has a liberal bent. So, if you do not feel appreciated, go back to wherever you came from, like Whuthesaid suggested. From what I remember, you ARE a racist refugee that just comes here to piss good people off. If we wanted to here your drivel, we would turn on Faux Noise, or listen to Rush Rimjob, or Peck-er Beck, or Insanity Hannity. And if you want to play the “free speech card,” then guess what? Whuthesaid can too, and so can I. (And, all this “card” stuff is the prattle of morons that cannot hold a civil conversation, so I will throw it back at you.)

      And yes, there are problems with Obamacare. They are caused by too many right-wing wackjob opponents, that would rather have those they see as unworthy die. But, much more so in the immediate, most of the problems with the ACA are do with the fact we can’t get the capitalist money men’s hands out of our politics. What we needed to complete the task was impossible, so what we got was a faulty compromise.

      But, one thing is for certain, the ACA beats what we had in place, and what you want to give us. AND, it can be improved, and made better. Unlike, the expensive loser of a system that only serves the economically well off. Keep in mind, that half the people that did have insurance had junk policies, and then add that to the one-sixth of the population that had nothing.

      • barry1817 says:

        so you have no answer to the 2 articles I mentioned that shows that obamacare is having problems, but you have no problems pulling out the racism card.

        Yup, when you have no facts attack the poster, and if you call it civil discourse to personally attack another you have shown that you aren’t worth the time and effort and have rendeered what you post and yourself as completely irrelevant to any civil discussion.

        As to right wing people that you attack, the law was passed with no conservatives, so everything that is wrong with this is because of dems that voted for it.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          What two articles barry? Where, you lying f*ckstick? I answered your lies, and the answer stands.

          You have been bad-mouthing posters since you got here. And I don’t mean “today.”

          Of course, no conservatives voted for it. It was the right-wackjob desire to continue to see 17,000 people die each year. And thank God, for if half the population was dying from a curable disease, and it would cost you a nickel to cure, America would just have half as many people.

          So, barry, where is your parties plan? No, fifty votes at repeal are not plans. Where are the plans, barry?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I am not going bother with bullshit that says we all live better when the 1% have everything. And, like I said, where was the bullshit articles at before.

            If you cannot even account for your lies, why should I ever do so myself?

          • barry1817 says:

            First when a person resorts to such vile language, there is no discussing anything with such a person, as you have already shown that you can’t be civil.

            As to anything else you try to say, you have proven yourself and your posts to be totally irrelevant.

            so now crawl back into the whole that you came out of and stop projecting your vile comments opinions onto others.

            You should be ashamed of such language on a public forum, and using an a symbol to mask your language is even worse, because you know the language is wrong.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You should be ashamed of lying in every post. Even worse in some respects, is you tell the same tired already none false lies, over and over.

            You insult in every post with your non-stop lies. So, you deserve every “fuckstick” I call you.

            So, since you hate this blog and all the posters so badly, crawl back off to Freitfart with the rest of the racist bastards.

            And fuckstick, you have ALWAYS been irrelevant. From your very first off-topic post. Some of us are just not going to let you “scent mark” our blog like the disgusting animal you are.

        • joe schmo says:

          That’s what they do every time. You must mention their racist views…. I never fail to remind them about the prejudice on their side exhibited by The New Black Panthers, LaRaza, NAACP and ACLU:) …..and don’t let them kid you about the KKK because it was originally a Democratic terrorist organization. Look it up if you like….I always do;)

        • Russell Byrd says:

          My final direct response to you, at this time, is this. You can only tell the lies, and make the false claims you do, because in your eyes, only humans personally approved by you should have joy, or happiness, or have assistance with their needs, or even life itself. You substitute yourself, for God.

          I know what every word of your whine will be in response, but I actually keep telling you the truth, BUT you will have no part of it.

      • idamag says:

        No one said the ACA was perfect, but it is something and we had nothing before. It isn’t socialized medicine, it is healthcare reform which was greatly needed.

    • joe schmo says:

      Yes barry, these Liberals make themselves sound like they have so much more class, are more educated than Conservatives and are right on the mark with their debates (if you would call these arguments debates)

      I have found Conservatives much more willing to discuss, less quick tempered, never as vile, always factual, very innovative and mostly creative problem solvers. Of course when they visit our sites we call them names but never as vile as what they call us. Besides, they never stick around that long. We have no problem chasing them off. I have been on and off this site for some time. I get very little civil discourse from posters like Whuthesaid, SandCat, Idamag, Eleanore and the person below. They are ragers, have no tolerance, threaten quite often and rarely state facts or stats. Mostly their foul words are stuck like a record on skip.

      I am here to learn about them and mainly to right the wrong that is always being spewed by their media. Their media constantly misconstrues the truth and I call them on that. i have found them to be foreign to American ideology pushing further and further away from where are nation comes from. This of course is very bad, specifically since we have a ‘divider in cheif.’ It would be nice if we could discuss things here rationally, but at the moment that is not possible.

      ….And yes, they project things like racism and bigotry on us all the time when they are more prejudice than we are 🙂

      • Russell Byrd says:

        Except, every statement you have made is false, but yet you persist.

        Of course, other a-holes such as yourself are going to such to suck up the tin-foil hat slop you produce so profusely. You people are never calm or polite. That is why you come. And the only reason “liberals” are so easy to run off on your sites is we start gagging from all the lies, racism, bigotry, and down right hatred of anyone that is not a fascist white man.

        I spent 15 minutes on Freitfart a couple of years ago. I saw 5 direct death threats, yes, explicit death threats against the president. Dozens more that implied a death threat. And racist garbage that only a fool would try to deny. Negativity, out-right sedition, and proposed treason in nearly every post.

        Yeah, I was easy to get rid of. It was sickening. What we need is to is round up you loonies and deport them to a penal colony where they can fight out their hatred amongst themselves.

        And you hate me for the simple reason I will not fold up and let you use me as a doormat. You disgusting b*st*rd.

      • Russell Byrd says:

        I would like to shun you as well. I know that I am far from the only one that thinks this, but if you find the conversation here unfriendly, then head for greener pastures, a-hole. No one wants to talk to you anyway.

        As for being civil, you DO NOT have any civility coming. Therefore, that whine of yours is quite irrelevant. Like now, you are “scent marking” the blog with your filth. And you cannot even address me directly. What a cowardly sh*t you are.

      • Russell Byrd says:

        One of the reasons for being foul mouthed is your application in every post of the highest possible insults. NO information coupled with what are continually proven LIES. We know your lies down, you just go to the next blog and begin again. Rarely, are you even on topic, and it could likely be proven that you do not even read the articles at all. You just come to attack the blog, the articles, and the posters with your LIES.

      • Russell Byrd says:

        Uh, spelling has been known to be one of your little foibles. And people come here to pass the time with a little intelligent conversation. Not with a troll that posts the same discredited LIES, over and over.

        Like the lie about prejudice. In what way? Letting people go without medical care, or basic human rights. You b*st*rds have LIED so much you really think being a racist is actually beneficial to those you hate.

        So, prove that I, or anyone here is more prejudiced than you. Yeah, you will claim that food stamps are racist when their are no good paying jobs. Which of course, is not the fault of greedy b*st*rds, but is of course, Obama’s fault. Right?

      • Russell Byrd says:

        The great dividers here are, two LIARS named barry and joe. Without them, peace reigns. Prove otherwise.!

      • Russell Byrd says:

        Again, Teaservatards are more willing to discuss issues with another disgusting racist bigot. Only a moron thinks that is even a point.

      • Russell Byrd says:

        Schmo, I find Reservatards to be unoriginal and intellectually stillborn. There greatest strength is a dogged dedication to the same dry, humorless LIES, that they tell over and over.

        Want civil discourse, post civilly. Maybe post on-topic. Maybe read the articles and post commentary based on that. You really just come to snipe at posters and ruin discussion with your non-stop, non-factual, non-sense.

        And when you whine about the barrage, keep in mind that I ate lunch, answered the phone, had a soda, and was only here a total of 17 minutes. You can’t wipe your rear in that length of time. ROTFL!

        • idamag says:

          I don’t know why these koch suckers don’t seek their own level and go to Breitbart where they will be lauded for saying the most hateful, untrue and ridiculous things.

      • barry1817 says:

        Joe thank you for the post. best to you.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      National Memo needs to SHUN you and those like you. Whine, and lie, and libel and slander, is all you do. Take barry posts, add a little sugar, stir, pour in a dish, and you have a shit casserole.

  26. barry1817 says:

    and then there is elw, who says I am making stuff up, when I comment on 2 news stories that detailed problems with obamacare.

    Making it up, it now what happens when a person cites news stories,. but claiming that someone is making stuff up, borders on libel, when nothing was made up.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Whine, post lies, whine, whine, post lies, lie, lie, lie some more, whine.

      Don’t you have a life? Are you too much of a nutjob for Freitfart?

    • angelsinca says:

      That is one of their tactics, barry1817. Then they send in RB the attack dog to mop up. His presence amply portrays the Memo as a minor blog riddled with crazies,

  27. idamag says:

    For the edification of posters, on this board, In the 1970’s Republicans overtook the Democrats, in the South, and it has been that way ever since. Courtesy of Wikepedia.

  28. idamag says:

    I haven’t been able to find where National Memo gets its funding, but most blogs are funded by advertising.

  29. idamag says:

    Some facts to ponder: The ACA is not socialized medicine. It is healthcare reform. Was it needed? When the average payout was 48% of the premiums and insurance executives got 22 million dollar bonuses – yes. When they had a lifetime cap on what could be paid out – yes. When a person, who had asthma, as a child, and gets his ribs broken, as an adult and his lung collapses, they could deny it as a pre-existing lung condition – yes. When a person, whose employer provided insurance, got a critical illness, and when he changed employers, he was no longer insurable – yes. When healthcare was the bottom line on the stock market page of the Wall Street Journal – yes.
    Now, 80% of all premiums must go back into healthcare. The cap was eliminated and a person cannot be denied insurance because of a pre-existing condition. Was the ACA the best we could come up with? No, but it was what we could get and we had to go with that. Was the Republican plan better? They didn’t have one. Was it pushed through by a dictator? No, it was passed by the House and voted in by a 60% majority in the Senate. That is the way Democracy works.

  30. Elle Tee says:

    Obama lied to a joint session of Congress in October, 2009 when he asserted that no taxpayer funds would be used to pay for baby-murder under ObamaCare.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Which, they weren’t. So, who is doing the lying?

      It is a real easy question.

      • idamag says:

        And, the government is not paying for abortions. These dips scream about profanity and lying doesn’t bother them.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          You don’t know how much I value what you just said. I work for a man that is exactly like that. He would let you starve and not think much of it. Maybe, “alas, they should have done better.” Yet, say sh*t and he will shun the most intelligent conversation.

          I have heard this guy come back from vitally important meetings, and the first thing out of his mouth would be how vulgar the other speaker(s) were. We listen for content, they listen for delivery.

    • JPHALL says:

      That can not be done because of federal law. Contraception is not abortion.

      • idamag says:

        These same people who cry about abortions, don’t have a problem sending children back to be murdered by drug cartels. You don’t hear them screaming about the human trafficking of children for sex purposes. To me, they are hypocrites.

  31. barry1817 says:

    once more people that use such vile language should be shunned, as Russel Byrd is, and one knows the words are wrong when a person must use symbols to mask a word that would be censored.

    As to not liking a news account that is out in the public domain, and could easily be googled if the cite was off, is intellectual laziness, and shows a person not ready to confront that their view might be wrong.

    To then say, what is my plan, is also missing all the posts and issues that have been promoted, but once more when a person has blinders on and lives in a bubble of his talking points, that won’t happen either.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Vile language? You use the vilest language ever known to man.

      LIES!

      You only cite from sources that are known to be hopelessly tainted spreaders of misinformation. You attack, and you attack, and you attack, and you attack, with LIES, LIES, LIES, and more LIES.

      BUT, you cannot accept that someone will return your attacks with the same vigor you attack others. YOU sir, are a damned hypocrite, and a functional criminal harasser.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      I use that so-called “vile language” because of your use of even more vile language: LIES!

      I tell the truth in all cases, with the exception of my replies to excessive LIARS like you, and then I say what I think is right, and never waste further time. NOW, there you have it. A genuine enigma. I always tell the truth, while sometimes I just don’t care, but I am telling you the truth about it. In any case, my “I don’t cares” are meant to be true, and probably are.

      However, when you lie constantly, and do so where no one wants to hear you, and then you go on, and on, and on, until everyone gives up and leaves because of all the smelly shit you have laid on so thick, what else can a truth teller like me do, but call YOU WHAT YOU REALLY ARE!

    • Russell Byrd says:

      As far as whining, what in blazes do you call all these posts?

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Here is the simple truth. I ONLY TROLL TROLLS.

      That is you. You came just to “scent mark” this blog and obliterate any of the rational posters with a barrage of lies.

      AND. that is the simplest part of the letter I am sending to National Memo regarding your trolling habits, and those like you.

  32. barry1817 says:

    I will comment once more that Russel Byrd should be shunned for his vile use of the language in unprovoked personal attacks.

    He has gone out and committed a libel by stating that I lie in every post. This is in response to this article where all I did was post 2 news stories and referenced where they came from that disagreed with the post.

    One can’t lie, when all they do was post but then Russell Byrd reminds me of the 3 year old being told the facts and he is just like that child stomping his feet screaming and holding his ears.

    And dressing up obscene language and calling someone a fuckstick is beyond civil discourse, but then in normal liberal comments he is projecting what he is, which is another reason to shun such a poster.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      I will comment once more that barry is an SOB that came only to spew lies to disrupt discussion and violate the terms of service.

      I have committed no libel, as what you have said comes directly from right-wackjob propaganda sites that cannot defend what they say.

      I have rebutted you, and you have lost every exchange. Yet, rather than bow out gracefully, you resort to what is provable slander and libel. And you show an immaturity that is only exceeded by your arrogant ignorance.

      Since you lie in every post, and you will not leave me and other posters in peace. Since you troll and disrupt the group, AND absolutely violate the First Amendment rights of other posters, the sobriquet FUCKSTICK is well, and truly earned.

      Now, how do you like those apple, fuckstick.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      If you wish to shun me, then leave. Problem solved, and I have not said this for the first time.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      THIS IS A LIBERAL BLOG. IF THIS WAS THE NATIONAL REVIEW, AND YOU WERE A LIBERAL, THEY WOULD HAVE BANNED YOU TOTALLY ON THE FIRST DAY. UNDERSTAND!!!!!

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Crybaby whiner, you are in a liberal group, and everyone that would even hear your lies is long gone. STFU, and “shun” me, and this ends.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Even if the regular posters were here, most would applaud my smacking your ignorant lies around.

      The fact that you must use my name in a libelous fashion puts you dangerously close to being banned yourself.

      If you are not smart enough to figure it out, I would gladly trade all my posting rights in exchange for you being banned permanently. The air in here would be breathable again, instead of being polluted with you filth.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      And you are not even smart enough to spell my name right. Wow!

    • Russell Byrd says:

      NO, you engaged in the “stink on shit” method of pummeling each and every poster you disagreed with without even hearing them out. YOU drew me to yourself with your own arrogant, ignorant behaviour.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      A coward wants to slander and libel someone when they think they cannot hear.

  33. barry1817 says:

    Once more Russell Byrd has nothing better to do than post and post and attack.

    As to whether this is a liberal post or not, it is an open forum and people should be civil. He can’t and hasn’t.

    As to calling me a liar, let’s go back to the topic, and the fact that all I did was post 2 news stories that were not in agreement with the premise. If people here are so closed to hearing other news items that disagree with the premise, that is intellectual dishonesty on a large scale, but expected from so many liberals such as Russell Byrd.

    So there you have it, the posts show a person with too much time on one’s hands and a person who should direct his outrage at the reporters who wrote the story.

    but whining and personal attacks are what I expect from such a person.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      This piece of filthy garbage only comes here to defame, deface, and vandalize this blog. He does not read, he never agrees, and he will not stop trolling until everyone is gone. That is all he is here for, and that is nothing but illegal harassment.

      Like some kind of animal, he just comes here to “scent mark” this blog will his filthy lies. The place reeks of his lies. If he were liberal, and this was the National Review, this post of his would already be gone.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      You have never been civil. You have done nothing but post lie, after lie, after lie, and when they are debunked, debunked, and debunked, you just stir up a new thread of the same lies.

      You hate Obamacare, we get that. So, when you make your point, quit harassing the posters. Then, you would not even know I was here. BUT NO, that would infringe on YOUR rights. And that is the problem, the rest of us do not have rights according to you trolls.

      A “liberal” blog then, belongs to you, by divine right, I suppose.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Your side has never had a plan. You could have participated, and you could have suggested some improvements. What did those fine representatives of yours do. Say NO, NO, NO.

      And with an estimated 17k people dying from lack of medical attention because they had to wait too long before they went to a doctor, that makes a supporter of their platform a MURDERER, just like they are.

      Now, reply with one of your set-piece lies. I know you are busting to do so.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      You accuse me of whining, but REALLY, who is doing the whining. This could have been done days ago, but you just can’t quit trying to have ALL the last words, with every poster in here.

      You “machine gun” post until any decent, caring, reasonable, intelligent poster give up, and leaves.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      And, I repeat, if you were a liberal, in one of those “very fair” fascist blogs you really belong in, your posts would ALL be gone in a matter of a couple of hours.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Here is one barry, and why I will cuss and hate you for all time. I worked with two people that died for no other reason than they did not have health insurance.

      One, apparently had been having a severe fever for days, but kept working. She could not afford to go to a doctor. Keep in mind that I did not know she was sick, because she was only on my crew for part of her work day. One day she did not come in. The next day the family notified me that she was dead.

      Simple antibiotics would have saved her. Now, do you understand that your hateful lies earn you the sobriquet, “fuckstick.” By the way, that appeared in an article on Nations Memo, so I am just repeating that word.

      Another woman, was working with us for months while she had pancreatic cancer. She could not afford to go to a doctor. No one, especially me, suspected she was sick. Her pride made her carry on without a word. Eventually, she had to go to the emergency room when the pain became unbearable. I never knew this of course. After some expensive tests, the hospital sent her as an out-patient to an oncologist. He diagnosed her cancer as untreatable. Now to be fair, pancreatic cancer has a low rate of survival, but with treatment, she might have lives another six months to a year. And with insurance, she would not have been on the public dime in my state.

      AND, she came back to work while she dying! She had to for her family. A couple of weeks later, I left for another position. A large part was how this company treated their employees like shit. I met her a couple of weeks later at K-mart, and gave her advice on how to get rid of fire ants. She was dead four days later. I would not have known, but one of my old employees called to tell me.

      NOW, fuckstick, in my view, any, and I mean ANY, monetary or philosophical objections, especially, based on you bombardment of lies, MAKES YOU A MURDERER.

      MURDER should be punishable by death. at least, according to you right-wackjob nutters. So, why are you still walking around free?

      Now, do you want to hear about my aunt? I’ve got dozens more stories, you murdering fuckstick.

      • idamag says:

        I can give you another example. A young father in my community needed a liver transplant. He was told he had to come up with 10,000 up front. The community rallied and there were money containers in every business. Benefit dances were held. An author dedicated all his sales, on one day, to this young man. He died before we could raise the money. This cretin, you responded to is one of those, “I got mine, to h with you” people. Many of them have their hand out for social programs like Medicare and Social Security. One dip tried to tell me it wasn’t socialism, but that is how socialism works. I know one man who had a $700,000 hospital bill. Medicare paid the entire thing. Now, if those dips will add up all their monthly payments to Medicare $106, How long would it take them to have put in $700,000? As it is, that is how socialism works. If they are so against socialism, they should refuse Medicare and Social Security.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          Well said. I feel for the young father and his family. That is why we need Obamacare, and why it needs to be forcefully improved. No one should die without at least a chance of being saved.

          My father told me about such as Barry over 50 years ago. He pointed out that they were against anything that might help their fellow man, but when the chips were down for them, they would be pushing and bullying to the front of the line for what they consider their rights.

          And yes! Socialism does work, and what does that work out to be, nearly 6900 months. Well, he better get busy with the payments as I think he should repay every penny if Medicare is so bad. 🙂

  34. barry1817 says:

    once again I respond to the readers about Russel (sic) Byrd and am reminded of the Jack Nicholson line You want the truth, you can’t handle the truth.

    Seems that posting 2 news stories that run counter to the premise of this article has set this poster off into behavior that reminds me of a 3 year old screaming and holding his ears because he doesn’t want to hear something.

    There are no lies, save in his comments, as one is not lying when one just posts a news article.

    too bad he seems to lack the intellectual honesty to understand the English language,

    But I will now wait for his multiple rants that I am a liar and worse, as his posts seem to indicate that he is just projecting his own foibles onto others.

    And I do look forward to keeping this thread for future reference to use to show what a typical liberal will do and post

    • Russell Byrd says:

      So, my advice to you is to LEARN TO HANDLE THE TRUTH, and GROW UP!

      According to this very news article, YOU are a liar. And if you wish to bring in quotes from outside, then stop getting them from other liars.

      I hope you do keep this thread. I really do!

      As always, everything liberal is bad, and you do nothing but bad mouth liberals (which is a very good word and something very good to be.) And yet, you come right into a “liberal” group to do so.

      You will do nothing here but start the process of losing your priviledges.

  35. barry1817 says:

    Once more Russel (sic) Byrd is taking the time to name call and attack me for simply posting 2 news stories that disagreed with the premise of this article.

    Now he says this will be the last time that he is going to respond. Don’t believe him, but having a person such as this not post will make this site much more civil.

    But the facts are that all the vitriole was directed at me for simply posting 2 news stories that he didn’t like, because it didn’t fit into his template and his past history.

    At to hatred for me and calling me a liar, that is a misused of the language as one isn’t a liar for posting that which is in the public domain. But I don’t expect a person that is so intolerant to understand that, or to even enter into a debate on the stories cited.

    And the posts are here for all to see, and you get can make your own judgements as to who is dealing in fact based reality and who is projecting their own hatred, bias and bigotry onto others.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Yes, because you are a lying “terms of service” violating troll, that spends his time libeling and slandering just about anything or anyone decent in this Nation.

      The fun part is, I enjoy trolling trolls like you. It is what I do.

      AND, I try always to tell the truth, because it not only is most effective, and satisfying, but it can be a real hoot as well. So here is a goody. Everyone, except a few trolls, know you are full of shit. No one, except a few trolls, could care less, and in fact, all you are doing is calling for everyone to SHUN YOU.

      BUT, the absolutely uproarious thing is, NO ONE will probably even read your bullshit!

      And believe me, I am adding it to my letter to Memo. In order for these blogs to survive, they need to actually do some moderating.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      “Russel (sic) Byrd”

      You have been more insulting than I ever could be. YOU LIE routinely to make your evil so-called points, but you know, (sic) is TOTALLY inappropriate in the situation where you made the error. Normal people correct their errors.

      So, fuckstick, you just keep insulting.

      Let’s not shun barry, let’s carpet bomb him.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      You can always tell a lying right-tard. They do it intentionally, because they think other people are meaningless.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      AND, he even goes so far as to claim, “Now he says this will be the last time that he is going to respond.” I never said anything of the kind. HE IS JUST A FUCKSTICK LIAR, and he keeps proving it.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      The vitriole did not start out that way. That was your decision. Yet, the facts are, you keep harassing every poster to get them to leave. Really, your LIES only harden these people’s resolve to vote and campaign against you liars. You don’t change minds. You prove their points for them.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Basically, you posted two totally tainted, fully documented articles by two overt anti-ACA and anti-Obama. In other words, and being kind, nonsense and no-information, non-evidence. To be blunt, propagandistic LIES. From there, you rubbed everyone’s face in your shit, and refused to discuss the validity of your data or argument. I only call you the fuckstick you are, because you continue to troll in violation of the “terms of service.” Which is what my complaint will state.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      Anyone that intentionally uses tainted and unreliable data from known propaganda mills, faces the prospect of being called a LIAR.

      • angelsinca says:

        Sounds just like the unfavorable jobs data released just before the 2012 election, when figures from California were ‘accidentally’ omitted.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          You have just made another twisted non-point. So, you keep your record of “intentionally uses tainted and unreliable data from known propaganda mills, faces the prospect of being called a LIAR” totally intact.

          • angelsinca says:

            “…However, it now appears the analysts were right. Early Thursday, the federal government finally revealed that California was indeed the state that had, in fact, underreported jobless claims, as suspected by many, after the weekly Labor Department job report, skewing the national jobless claims results. This week’s updated jobs report corrected the error and showed unemployment claims spiking back up by 46,000.

            The intentional omission of California’s data promoted an artificially favorable economic report for the Obama administration because the inclusion of California’s unemployed would have cause the jobless rate to increase by 0.02%, not decrease by 0.48% to 7.8%.

            Regardless, the pro-Obama, biased media spread the “good news” quickly, with outlets like CNN and Bloomberg declaring, “Jobless claims fall to four-year low.”

            Within hours, the Bureau of Labor Statistics and Labor Department analysts announced that one major state had failed to fully document jobless claims. They declined to name the state.

            Now, it has been learned that Marty Morgenstern, the secretary of the California municipal agency that under-reported unemployment claims, contributed to President Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential election campaign.”

            http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2012/10/california-data-skewed-labor-dept-unemployment-claims-report-ca-data-reveals-real-unemployment-rate-labor-force-participation-rate-62-4-dropped-more-than-unemployment-rate-since-feb-2012-2447146.html

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Most of the media is obviously not “pro-Obama.” You are just angry that most people do not prescribe to your racist hate. Your need to hate people, especially people that are different.

            AND, the best of all, you quote FREITFART, which means that we can assume the entire story is fabrication. If you love them so much, you should spend the rest of your life their hating to your heart’s content. If you remain here, it is going to get mighty damn hot.

          • angelsinca says:

            “Most of the media is obviously not “pro-Obama.”

            Not anymore. What do you supposed happened to the honeymoon?

          • Russell Byrd says:

            The never was. There was no honeymoon.

            By the way, are you queer for Obama? Every article you post in you have to bring him up. It’s simple Psychology 101. Closet fags like you always hit at the ones they love. And you must think Obama is a sex god the way you are always getting him into a conversation.

            LMAO!

          • Russell Byrd says:

            As far as popularity, the Rumpbuggers in general are less than half as popular as Obama. Every time you slander Obama you are only highlighting that almost everyone hates your fuckstick heroes.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            So, you claim that Obama is at fault because California under reported. Everyone normal just shakes their head at those lies. Your spiel is totally irrelevant and riddled with lies.

            You claim “intentional” on your own, so we know it is a lie, and not based on any evidence, which further proves the lie.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Are you like the poor little child that asked for more? Well, this time I wiped up an extra big batch of whoop ass, and I can not even see the bottom. So, how about some more, you whiny parasite.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          Admit it angelstench, YOU HATE AMERICA. All you ever wanted was an easy ride. Maybe, you should self-deport too. We surely never needed you.

          • angelsinca says:

            No, I don’t hate America, RFB. As a US citizen, I cannot ‘deport myself’. Thanks for revealing how you hate immigrants. Try again. This tedium is only making me sleepy. Bye.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Sure you can self-deport. In fact, you hate America so badly, we might just revoke your naturalization and send you back to your dictator. He is after all, a much better man than you. At least, right or wrong, he fought for what he believed in. Instead, of a whiny, infantile parasite like you that just harasses good people from behind your wall of anonymity.

          • angelsinca says:

            Not even close RFB. The pathos you bring is almost entertaining. Oddly though, the drool of an attack dog doesn’t mix with popcorn.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Look around you angelshit, no one is complaining about me. NO ONE ever has.

            My only difficulty is with a few posters that tell me you are NOT WORTH replying too. That is an insult to your worth and integrity, or lack thereof, and is meaningless as support for your lies and harassment.

            So, go ahead, and tell your same tired lies. I WILL BE HERE, and you know very well what that means.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            If your drool is fouling the popcorn, wash your filthy lying mouth first.

    • Russell Byrd says:

      I am not intolerant. That is you. I am just sick of watching the blog I have been in since it began, become a litter box for the filth of animals like you.

      Go back to National Phew, or the Freitfart, and you will see that I am not intolerant at all.

      • idamag says:

        To them, intolerant is that you have the ability to think.

        • Russell Byrd says:

          I especially like old Barry’s tactic of slandering me “behind my back.” Who did he think was going to read it. I just enjoyed blasting him, but I freely admit that it is just a waste of both our times. But, it was funny.

          On the other hand, I have been trying to “transition” out of blogging altogether. I am seeing far too much BS in these blogs. It easily quadrupled since Obama became president. The hate is impossible to mask.

          I just feel that there is little support from the bulk of the “good guys.” Which is exactly a bragging point for the right-wackjobs. They always laugh that WE “will run when chased.” And there are far too many vociferous wackjob trolls to contend with.

          I am guessing that for the first five years I was reading this blog, I never posted at all. I only began when the trolls got excessive. It is disgusting to read half the posts are from bigots, liars, and slanderers. Now, I find it posting addictive, but it is not as fun as it used to be. So, the only thing I know to do is to quit altogether. I am not gone yet, though I have cut down to almost nothing, but I think it needs an end made of it.

          • idamag says:

            Russell, don’t go. If these people take over this board, it will be like the girl in the family that moved in our neighborhood. There were six kids and two parents. Five of the kids and the parents had developmental disabilities. The little girl had an I.Q, of 140. I knew this because her teacher was a good friend of mine and I knew the principal and the school superintendent. I went to the county agent and got permission to start a 4-H group for disadvantage kids. With the support of the school, I had those little girls and others (sent by the school) in my group. The child with the high I.Q. was totally frustrated, living with a houseful of developmentally disabled people. I think we know how she felt, don’t we? However, if we totally ignore them, they won’t get their jollies and we don’t have to wade through their garbage.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I have never seen anyone ignore a troll in any of these blogs. On the other hand, I don’t think it is healthy to ignore them. Everyone takes the easy way out, and says that trolls are trying to get a rise out of us. That could not be more false. They come here, as the criminal angelstench said so poignantly, to this “minor liberal blog,” to “educate” and “shut down conversation.” Like angelstench’s technique, he just splatters us with a machine gun pattern of posting. The key here is, he has answered all of us with his filth. If we do nothing, then he is satisfied and moves on.

            What I am trying to convey, and have always been trying to convey, is the trolls want to put their mark on each and every blog. “Scent mark,” as I like to say. If we reply to them, far from being excited about baiting us, they go into a frenzy to put down the “uprising.” so to speak.

            Simply put, they want us to let them have the last say, and in fact, the only say. That is why they are so vociferous. They are not baiting us, they are using a brute force attack to shut us down, and have the last word.

            One good side effect is, angelstench cannot avoid smarting off to me to this day, but he will flee within minutes of my showing up. I am not bragging at all. I am just demonstrating a point that my persistence “destroys the joy” for him. So, he avoids any prolonged contact with me, tells a few slanders, and then runs. Of course, he just moves on to another, softer target.

          • angelsinca says:

            No, Byrd. Your attacks and continuing, unwarranted hostilities are what this blog has become. Your intolerance for dissenting opinion has helped to create an atmosphere of hate, just as the country has become a divisive ideological battlefield.

            In the effort to ‘clean up’ this message board, you have become the one that disrupts, the one that hates, the one that blames his own provocative behavior on others. Please do give this blog a rest and pursue those familial duties that might help heal that damaged soul of yours.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Still spewing nothing but falsehoods. I am neither surprised nor dismayed in the least.

            If you leave, then there will be one less very chronic liar, and conversation will become much more pleasant.

            The sad part is, the only soul here that is damaged is yours. You are Hell bound, and nothing can stop that. You blaspheme, and you lie in every post. How can you ever be forgiven, when you are proud of your crimes.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            I will point out to you, that I am going to have your name subpoenaed. IF you filed the false report, then I will turn it over to the FBI, if you failed to file the report, but used a FBI document fraudulently to EXTORT, then I will turn it over to the FBI.

            You never really caught on who I really am, did you?

          • angelsinca says:

            ‘You never really caught on who I really am, did you?”

            uh, Satan? I’ll just call you RFB, ok? You carry such a big F-stick of BS, there is no other name for you, really. Hope you are OK with that.

            Regarding a subpoena, please do use government resources at your disposal to obtain personal information. When you realize that the repeated claims you have made calling me a criminal are false, then you won’t be surprised when you are served for abuse of government resources, invasion of privacy, and propagating a falsehood with the intent of causing harm.

            If you want call to this “extortion”, you have the right of ignorance on your side. I don’t want anything from you. It’ll be up to the courts to decide the judgment against you. I’m just planning to retire on that expected judgment. The truth rests with me.

            Your move RFB

          • Russell Byrd says:

            Angel, angel, you posted the instrument of your own demise of your own free volition. You did so in one of your whiny fits of impassioned, “I have rights, you don’t.” You whined incessantly about what I do not have a right to do, all the while you were the entire cause of the problem.

            You posted what you did as a THREAT. And unlike your continued false and infantile prattle about being threatened, you committed a crime punishable by five years, in order to force me to allow you to continue your illegal abuse. YES, you are acting contrary to law. So, you upped a misdemeanor that no one would ever dream of prosecuting, into a low grade felony. Time will tell if you are to be “culled” from the herd. I can do it, but frankly, you are not worth the time. BUT, I am considering it.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You certainly will be able to retire on THAT judgment. Five years of penal servitude will be a fitting “vacation” for you. As for any half-baked lawsuit, I certainly would not plan “to spend it all in one place.”

          • Russell Byrd says:

            There will be no judgment, and I already know that the last thing you will ever do is actually seek any real assistance. NOT under your own name.

            In fact, you have committed a felony, and you only run your mouth because you think I am bluffing. That really shows your flight from reality. Because, you think everyone is just as much of a liar as you. AND that you are safe in your anonymity. You probably gave false information to open your account, but if you think law enforcement cannot find you, you are sadly mistaken.

          • angelsinca says:

            I am not ‘hiding’ from anything. If I was, I would have changed my user ID and IP addy a long time ago when your viable threats began. Anonymity is about the only defense against crazies like yourself. Ha! you just can’t accept that one of your victims won’t cower to your lies and intimidation. Piss off RFB.

          • Russell Byrd says:

            You were continuing to lie and libel me the entire time I tried to leave you in peace. You even told your fuckstick buddy Bozobowen, that you HAD to make your profile private to keep me from harassing you. Boo-hoo-hoo.

            One thing is for sure, you are not smart enough to actually change anything. You think you can actually commit felonies, and the law cannot touch you. That is exactly what the worst criminals think.

            Oops, but you are that criminal, aren’t you?

          • angelsinca says:

            I have committed no crimes, no felonies. Please feel free to continue playing the creepy LWNJ. It makes it easier to just ignore you.

          • Russell Byrd says: