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What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

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What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

A supporter of Democratic U.S. presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders holds a sign and wears a mask of Sanders' rival candidate Hillary Clinton outside of the venue before the start of the Univision News and Washington Post Democratic U.S. presidential candidates debate in Kendall, Florida, March 9, 2016. REUTERS/Carlo Allegri

Exactly one year before Election Day – on November 8, 2015 – Bernie Sanders was asked whether his agreement with Hillary Clinton on basic issues outweighed the conflicts that he proclaimed at every campaign appearance.

Speaking on television rather than on the stump, the Vermont senator conceded reluctantly that he and Clinton concur on some issues. But then he added an entirely gratuitous endorsement:

“And by the way, on her worst day, Hillary Clinton will be an infinitely better candidate and President than the Republican candidate on his bestday.”

That moment of reassuring reason is worth remembering as the debate becomes more rancorous. Clinton isn’t foreordained to win the Democratic nomination, so Sanders neither will nor should hesitate to emphasize their differences.

So far, in fact, his challenge has improved both her candidacy and the national discourse. It is healthy for Democrats to argue about the best ways to ensure more good jobs, higher wages, universal health care, affordable higher education, paid family leave, immigration reform, national security, and a clean energy future.

But the overwrought reaction of some Sanders supporters – who already insist they cannot imagine voting for Clinton because of her campaign donors, her paid speeches, her vote on Iraq, or her support for some of her husband’s policies two decades ago – evokes bad memories of another, truly disastrous presidential campaign.

It is no accident, as they say, that those who “feel the Bern” today include prominent supporters of Ralph Nader’s independent presidential campaign in 2000. Their urge to overthrow the mundane, demand the utopian, reject grubby compromise, and assert moral purity is as powerful today as four cycles ago; and perhaps even more so, especially among those who feel somehow “disappointed” by President Obama. But political decisions based solely on such emotional considerations can prove terribly costly to our country and the world – as we discovered when George W. Bush usurped Al Gore.

Nader and his supporters were not responsible alone for the appalling outcome of the 2000 election but – along with the Supreme Court majority and Gore himself — they bear a substantial share of blame. Their defamatory descriptions of the Democratic nominee were echoed across the media by reporters, columnists, and commentators who knew better — from the pages of the New York Times and the Washington Post to the cable networks.

Mocking Gore for his supposed personal flaws, such as an alleged propensity to exaggerate his achievements, was as fashionable in media and political circles then as it is to denigrate Hillary Clinton now. Clever people delighted in contrasting Nader’s — and even Bush’s! — “authenticity” with Gore’s stiff insincerity. (Indeed, many of the same pundits are still doing versions of the same stupid pundit tricks.)

Besides, according to the Naderites, there were no important differences between the Democratic nominee and his Republican opponent. Or at least none that merited as much concern as Gore’s earth-toned suits and the preppy character he did or didn’t inspire in a romance novel. A wave of such idiotic babble delivered America and the world into a catastrophic Bush presidency.

Fortunately, the parallels only go so far. Sanders chose a far more responsible route than Nader when he decided to run for the Democratic nomination rather than jump to a third-party line. He has focused on substantive issues and admirably dismissed fake scandals like Benghazi and Clinton’s emails. But by repeating his unfounded insinuation that Clinton’s paid speeches and Wall Street donors have somehow corrupted her, he is inflicting damage that will be very hard to mend.

Looking toward the likelihood that either Clinton or Sanders will face Donald Trump next fall, those corrosive tactics are shortsighted. Should Sanders win the nomination, he will want and need Clinton’s support. And should she defeat him, he will and should want her to win — if he believes what he said last November, and understands the exceptionally dangerous threat posed by a Trump presidency.

The next round of Democratic primaries could encourage still more destructive bashing, from either camp or both. The candidates and their supporters ought to think beyond the moment – and pay attention to filmmaker Michael Moore, an outspoken Sanders backer.

On the evening when his candidate won an upset victory in the Michigan primary, Moore tweeted this message: “A special congrats to Hillary for her victory in Mississippi on International Women’s Day. If you win the nomination, we will be there [with] you.”

Once a zealous backer of Nader, Moore eventually apologized for that tragic mistake. Evidently he would rather not feel that sorry again.

Joe Conason

A highly experienced journalist, author and editor, Joe Conason is the editor-in-chief of The National Memo, founded in July 2011. He was formerly the executive editor of the New York Observer, where he wrote a popular political column for many years. His columns are distributed by Creators Syndicate and his reporting and writing have appeared in many publications around the world, including the New York Times, the Washington Post, The New Yorker, The New Republic, The Nation, and Harpers.

Since November 2006, he has served as editor of The Investigative Fund, a nonprofit journalism center, where he has assigned and edited dozens of award-winning articles and broadcasts. He is also the author of two New York Times bestselling books, The Hunting of the President (St. Martins Press, 2000) and Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth (St. Martins Press, 2003).

Currently he is working on a new book about former President Bill Clinton's life and work since leaving the White House in 2001. He is a frequent guest on radio and television, including MSNBC's Morning Joe, and lives in New York City with his wife and two children.

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  1. Theodora30 March 11, 2016

    Yesterday’s NY Times editorial pontificated about how Hillary has to stop criticizing Bernie for his anti-gun control votes, his vote against TARP which included the auto bailout funds, etc. No call for Bernie to stop constantly implying Hillary has been corrupted by Wall Street. Apparently she is supposed to fight with one hand tied behind her back.

    If Bernie wins the nomination with the help of the Hillary bashing by the Times we will immediately hear/read pundits asking things like “Will the American people really elect a socialist who went to Nicaragua to help the Sandinistas celebrate the anniversary of their takeover? Will they elect a man who praises the repressive Castro regime? Does Bernie, who refused to talk to a Syrian refugee or Hispanics that did not want his state’s nuclear waste dumped in their town, have the temperament to be President etc., etc.”

    I really cannot believe that swing voters will not have a huge problem voting for Bernie once they know these things. Right now pundits are conveniently ovelooking Bernie’s weaknesses and focusing their criticisms on Hillary in order to have a horse race, strengthening Bernie and weakening the more mainstream Hillary. If he is the nominee that will stop and his approval ratings will take a nosedive (just as Hillary’s have since the media started going after her.) And I am not even taking the right wing attack machine into account. While I do not believe this is a center right country it is not a country comfortable with left wing politicians.

    1. Jinmichigan March 11, 2016

      NYT’s is nothing but consistent in their unending attacks on Hillary.

      1. FireBaron March 11, 2016

        Ironic, considering that even though their OpEd writers continue to vilify her, the paper itself has endorsed her candidacy.

    2. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

      She would do herself her favor by releasing the transcripts of those speeches that she made to Goldman Sachs for $225,000 a pop. The reason we think that she is corrupted by Wall Street, the Health Insurance Industry , Big Pharma and every other special interest group is because SHE IS! How else can you explain the hundreds of millions of dollars she has received in both campaign contributions and personal income. We call that bribery. She can’t release those transcripts just like Romney couldn’t release his tax returns. They are politically fatal. Come on Goldwater Girl? Where is your credibility? She is not who you think she is.

      1. RED March 11, 2016

        Yeah, I simply can’t figure out how Democrats supposedely call for campaign reform and accuse the Cons of being wholly owned by their donors but somehow we’re supposed to give Hillary a pass. I wonder if there is an candidate on the Con side that has collected and profited as much as Hillary has from these people? I really don’t think any of the Cons have received near the gain that the Hillary has. Even Trump for all his whacka doodle stupidity hasn’t collected that much from the donor class. That’s not to say he isn’t a Con artist, he most certainly is, he has just had different marks up until now. Of course now that he’s discovered a whole new class of folks to Con, he will go to town!

      2. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

        Not releasing the transcripts make her look bad. So why won’t she release them? Because she knows that if she does, it’ll make her look even worse. It’s not that hard to figure out.

        1. JPHALL March 11, 2016

          So do the Emails, but she has constantly called for the State Department to release her Emails. But the Republicans and you apparently want more.

          1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Trying to lump me in with Republicans only makes you look desperate. Republicans are every bit as much puppets of Wall Street as Hillary is and I criticize them for it too.

          2. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Reread what I said. I said stop using the talking points of the Repug noise machine. Give your own reasons. Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          3. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            I’ve not once used a right wing talking point. Try again.

          4. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            All you have used are right wing talking points. (Emails, Wall street) As I said before, what else do you have?
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          5. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            I’ve not mentioned emails once and Wall Street is not a right wing talking point because they are puppets of Wall Street too. Try again.

            BTW, nice little gaffe today from your girl regarding Nancy Reagan. I got a good laugh from that.

      3. rebecca h March 11, 2016

        why is this so important? Let’s get real – $225K is NOTHING compared to what others get for speeches. NOTHING!!! She did it because she needed an income after leaving the White House. There are videos of her giving speeches to Wall St audiences – why is this 1 damn speech so important???? I swear, I’m so sick of everyone overlooking all the good Hillary has done for women and children HER ENTIRE LIFE because of some damn speech she did. GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON! I wish Bernie would give it a rest. I completely hold him responsible if many of his followers either don’t vote or write in someone else. So irresponsible.

        1. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

          Hillary and Bill in 2014 made over $40,000,000 in paid speeches to groups like Goldman and many others. Not just one speech. It was Chuck Todd who brought the Goldman speech up in a town hall earlier in the campaign. At the time she said she would look into releasing the transcripts. Now she says she does not have them and would not release them unless all of the candidates release theirs. Bernie has already released his (none because he does not give paid speeches to special interest groups) and we already know what the GOP tell the corporate masters. If she loses the election it is her fault for not being transparent about this. She is not who you think she is. I will not for someone like that.

          1. Theodora30 March 11, 2016

            Journalists also make paid speeches. They just do not get paid as much as an ex President, Secretary of State, CEO, General (Colin Powell gets pads big bucks for speeches) etc. Many, many companies pay for speakers at their conventions and big meetings to increase attendance. It is a routine practice and has nothing to do with buying influence with the speaker.

          2. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

            This is BS. There is only one candidate in this race who is not on the take and it’s not Hillary. Even if Bernie loses we will hopefully never have another Dem nominee who is so easily and publicly bribed. You should rethink about who and what you are supporting. You have a choice and you are being played.

          3. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            No it is not BS. Several people, Tony Robbins, former generals, doctors and religious leaders, for example make a living giving these speeches. Some have been doing this for years. It is only important as a wedge issue. Bush and Cheney did the same until it became clear that even Canada would extradite them to The Hague.

          4. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

            The examples you give were not politicians seeking office. The whole system is horrible. The campaigns and candidates are bought and paid for. Unlimited Corporate contributions and dark money by the 100s millions. I think Bernie will be better at fixing that mess. He has no involvement in that. He will work the hardest to end Citizens United.

          5. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Stop being obtuse. You are more intelligent than that. People in our system, especially now, care more for money than ideals.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          6. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

            And Bernie is showing us that it does not have to be that way. When the people who benefit most by the progressive policies come out and vote everything can change. When we stand up and say enough is enough it will change. Take a look at the GOP as they implode in front of our eyes. We have a window of opportunity. Let’s not blow it. Let’s not run from our progressive values and be Republican light like in 2014. That did not work out. This can happen, the Independents are with us. We can easily win back the Senate and even put the House in play. Our time has come. They are giving us this election and we are going to run a candidate with huge unfavorables. Talk about snatching defeat away from victory.

          7. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            And you know that the Independents are with you how? Most are former Republicans.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          8. Moose Man March 12, 2016

            sounds iike a Shawshank fan….obtuse??

          9. rebecca h March 11, 2016

            Bill’s speeches are not of concern. And why should Hillary have to provide transcripts when no one else is? You KNOW that the Repugs will everything out of context and twist it around. But here is everything Hillary made for speeches from Jan 2014 thru March2015. I’m sure that speech to the American Camping Association is a hot one. Think what you want.
            Hillary Clinton’s speeches:

            Speech Date Location Fee
            GE 1/6/2014 Boca Raton, Fl. $225,500
            National Automobile Dealers Association 1/27/2014 New Orleans, La. $325,500
            Premier Health Alliance 1/27/2014 Miami, Fl. $225,500
            Salesforce.com 2/6/2014 Las Vegas, Nv. $225,500
            Novo Nordisk A/S 2/17/2014 Mexico City, Mexico 125,000
            Healthcare Information and Management Systems Society 2/26/2014 Orlando, Fl. $225,500
            A&E Television Networks 2/27/2014 New York, N.Y. 280,000
            Association of Corporate Counsel – Southern California 3/4/2014 Los Angeles, Ca. $225,500
            The Vancouver Board of Trade 3/5/2014 Vancouver, Canada $275,500
            tinePublic Inc. 3/6/2014 Calgary, Canada $225,500
            Pharmaceutical Care Management Association 3/13/2014 Orlando, Fl. $225,500
            Drug Chemical and Associated Technologies 3/13/2014 New York, N.Y. $250,000
            Xerox Corporation 3/18/2014 New York, N.Y. $225,000
            Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal 3/18/2014 Montreal, Canada $275,000
            Academic Partnerships 3/24/2014 Dallas, Tx. $225,500
            Marketo Inc. 4/8/2014 San Francisco, Ca. $225,500
            World Affairs Council 4/8/2014 Portland, Or. $250,500
            Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries Inc. 4/10/2014 Las Vegas, Nv. $225,500
            Let’s Talk Entertainment 4/10/2014 San Jose, Ca. $265,000
            California Medical Association (via satellite) 4/11/2014 San Diego, Ca. $100,000
            National Council for Behavioral Healthcare 5/6/2014 Washington D.C. $225,500
            International Deli-Dairy-Bakery Association 6/2/2014 Denver, Co. $225,500
            Let’s Talk Entertainment 6/2/2014 Denver, Co. $265,000
            United Fresh Produce Association 6/10/2014 Chicago, Il. $225,000
            tinePublic Inc. 6/16/2014 Toronto, Canada $150,000
            tinePublic Inc. 6/18/2014 Edmonton, Canada $100,000
            Innovation Arts and Entertainment 6/20/2014 Austin, Tx. $150,000
            Biotechnology Industry Organization 6/25/2014 San Diego, Ca. $335,000
            Innovation Arts and Entertainment 6/25/2014 San Francisco, Ca. $150,000
            GTCR 6/26/2014 Chicago, Il. $280,000
            Knewton, Inc. 7/22/2014 San Francisco, Ca. $225,500
            Ameriprise 7/26/2014 Boston, Ma. $225,500
            Corning, Inc. 7/29/2014 Corning, N.Y. $225,500
            Nexenta Systems, Inc. 8/28/2014 San Francisco, Ca. $300,000
            Cisco 8/28/2014 Las Vegas, Nv. $325,000
            Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd LLP 9/4/2014 San Diego, Ca. $225,500
            Caridovascular Research Foundation 9/15/2014 Washington D.C. $275,000
            Commercial Real Estate Women Network 10/2/2014 Miami Beach, Fl. $225,500
            Canada 2020 10/6/2014 Ottawa, Canada $215,500
            Deutsche Bank AG 10/7/2014 New York, N.Y. $280,000
            Advanced Medical Technology Association (AdvaMed) 10/8/2014 Chicago, Il. $265,000
            Council of Insurance Agents and Brokers 10/13/2014 Colorado Springs, Co. $225,500
            Salesforce.com 10/14/2014 San Francisco, Ca. $225,500
            Qualcomm Incorporated 10/14/2014 San Diego, Ca. $335,000
            Massachusetts Conference for Women 12/4/2014 Boston, Ma. $205,500
            tinePublic Inc. 1/21/2015 Winnipeg, Canada $262,000
            tinePublic Inc. 1/21/2015 Saskatoon, Canada $262,500
            Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce 1/22/2015 Whistler, Canada $150,000
            2/24/2015 Santa Clara, Ca. $225,500
            eBay Inc. 3/11/2015 San Jose, Ca. $315,000
            American Camping Association 3/19/2015 Atlantic City, N.J. $260,000
            TOTAL $11,987,000

            Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/bill-and-hillary-clinton-made-roughly-25-million-in-speeches-since-2014-118009#ixzz42cvLFhyT
            Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

          10. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

            So just under 12 million for Hillary alone. That really changes my mind. Good grief.

          11. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            “why should Hillary have to provide transcripts when no one else is?”

            Hillary is only running against one person right now and that one person has already released the transcripts of his paid speeches to the banking industry.

          12. Moose Man March 12, 2016

            What abut 2013? That was the Goldman year. your list is incomplete. How about the WH furniture and antiques the Clintons took the night before Bush moved in. Show me the transcripts.

          13. yabbed March 11, 2016

            So what? You’re angry because no one wants to hear Bernie Sanders hector, yell, and point is ancient old digits?

          14. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

            You don’t get it. We do not want any candidate to take millions in bribes.

      4. yabbed March 11, 2016

        I read a transcript of one of her Goldman Saks speeches. She was encouraging Wall St to offer opportunities to women and minorities.

        1. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

          BS. She only released that to you,right? Can you ask her to release those to the rest of us. You are funny. Hillary is done. Michigan changes everything.

    3. dtgraham March 11, 2016

      There is some substance to the corrupted by Wall St thing. Bernie wants to establish a too-big-to-fail list of commercial banks, shadow banks and insurance companies, and break them up. Hillary doesn’t.

      He wants to cap all ATM fees at $2.00 and limit interest on credit cards and consumer loans to 15%. She doesn’t. Think that’s too radical? A similar proposal on credit card interest rates was advanced by the democratic socialist party in Canada’s federal election last year. It’s being looked at seriously now by Justin Trudeau’s victorious Liberal party and will likely be implemented.

      Hillary also doesn’t want to reinstate Glass-Steagall. Bernie does. Bernie wants an across the board financial transaction tax. Hillary only wants it on high frequency trades, which is sort of a half plan.

      She also needs to release those Goldman Sachs speech transcripts. She refuses to do it. Why?

      1. JPHALL March 11, 2016

        But how is he going to do all those things? Not with this Congress. It defies common sense!

        1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

          You do realize Congress has elections too, yes?

          1. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            But in this cycle it is impossible to take the House. Where is your talk about retaking the Senate to help Bernie? None by you or the other Bernie supporters who say they will let the Repubs take the WH if Clinton gets the nomination. We have seen what happens when a president does not have help in Congress to get his programs advanced.

          2. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Taking back the Senate is a lock with Bernie this year. Most of the seats up for grabs this year are Republican and many of them are in purple states. The House is heavily gerrymandered but gains can be made by a charismatic candidate who inspires the base. Good luck trying to get the Senate back or making any gains in the House nominating a candidate who does not have the support of the younger voters.

          3. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Once again idealism over reality. Many of the states in play are in centrists districts. You really think the sheep will go beyond the socialist tag and vote for Bernie? We have already seen how sheep vote feelings over their best interests. See Kentucky and West Virginia as examples.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          4. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            I’m starting to wonder if you’ve been paying attention to any of this or you just can’t seem to get a grasp on reality. You’re welcome to your opinion but the facts don’t support your case.

          5. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Again, give me some facts not opinion.

            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          6. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Bernie polls better against Trump than Hillary does. Bernie does better with Independents than Trump, who does better with them than Hillary. 2/3rds of the country does not trust Hillary. Young voters do not support Hillary by about a 90/10 margin. But don’t let a silly little thing like facts get in the way of your narrative.

          7. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Your numbers are based on polls, mostly from land lines. We have seen how accurate they are! A lesson for you. Even the pollsters are questioning the validity of their methods this year. Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          8. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Bernie support from younger voters does not come from land line polling. They come from exit polls on real voting. But go ahead and keep telling yourself they support Hillary.

          9. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            I did not say support. I said polls. You really believe people tell the truth to strangers? Try again! Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          10. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            If you think Hillary has the support of Millennials, then you are living in a fantasy land.

          11. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            I never said that. But if you look at previous votes, they are the least likely to actually vote.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          12. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Yup. If Bernie is the nominee, the older crowd will vote for whoever is on the ticket. If Hillary is the nominee, the younger voters won’t be showing up for her. Good luck in the general with that strategy.

          13. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            No, again you are going by your opinion not facts. Other than in 2008 and 2012, the younger voters rrarely vote.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          14. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Keep telling yourself that.

          15. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            No, keep telling yourself your fantasies. But do not get mad when reality slaps you upside your head.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          16. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

            And, of course, in Michigan in 2016.

          17. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

            You mean with Sanders getting 67 delegates and Hillary getting 60 delegates? Oh, big win there. It will really help Sanders with his 560 delegates, when Hillary has 1,222.

          18. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            But that is only the primary not the general election. If Sanders is not the candidate, I doubt large numbers of the young will vote.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          19. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

            LOL! How many millennials and hipsters do you know?

          20. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

            You don’t think young people will vote for Hillary? Did you ever see the meme the hipsters have of Hillary as SOS with sunglasses on? They think she is one tough lady. They joke about old man Bernie.

          21. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            The fact that Bernie consistently gets around 80% or more of the youth vote paints a different picture than the one you are trying to sell.

          22. Cloudherder March 12, 2016

            And how was this pole ( I am assuming it’s a pole?) taken? Younger people don’t usually have land lines. Many of them joke that when they are confronted by poles they lie. They don’t feel an obligation to tell the truth or take poles seriously.

          23. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Feel free to check the exit polls from the voting that has taken place so far if you want to know how the demographics break down.

  2. Jinmichigan March 11, 2016

    Absolutely agree with this article. Let the process play out for whoever and focus on beating the republicans in the fall.

  3. yabbed March 11, 2016

    It is mind boggling that so horrifically inappropriate and unqualified candidates such as Trump and Sanders are actually competing to be President of the United States of America. Either one would make us a laughingstock on the world stage and end the America we have known and loved.

    1. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

      You speak without data or any basis in fact in making your attack on Sanders. Trump would be a disaster. Sanders would be an antidote to the hate and fear that many in the world feel toward a country that has over 800 bases in countries all over the world and the largest and most invasive military in the world.

      1. yabbed March 11, 2016

        Sanders will not get any traction on his Socialist agenda in the Congress. He will doom us to a Trump presidency. We went through this with the McGovern debacle. It’s insanity to think a Socialist / Communist can defeat the likes of Donald Trump with the American public.

        1. dtgraham March 11, 2016

          This isn’t 1972. Barack Obama wouldn’t have won in 1972. He wouldn’t even have gotten his party’s nomination running on a platform of, “we’re going to change this country.” Remember that?

        2. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

          If you are not capable of seeing the difference between the political and economic environment when McGovern and McCarthy ran for election and today’s, you are part of the problem with the party. And I understand why you are a Clintonista.

          1. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            No merely a realist. We saw the same in 2000. Idealists led to Bush2. Do not repeat that mistake.

          2. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            It wasn’t idealists who led to Dubya. It was his brother rigging Florida and the SCOTUS upholding it. Gore won that election.

          3. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            No, it was the thousands of Florida votes for Nader. Without them there would have been no recount or SC judgement.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          4. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            If you think Jeb! had nothing to do with what happened in Florida in 2000, then I have a bridge to sell you in New York.

          5. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Once again you are stuck on your own explanation for what went on in 2000. Of course Jeb and his Sec. of State helped. But again I say that didn’t offset the thousands of votes that went to Nader. In the final recount Bush still won the vote by less than 1500 votes.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          6. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            JP; The Gore defeat was the result of a number of things, not just the stupid Nader run. Nader supporters still believe they did the right thing and they will probably be voting for Jill Stein in November. The Stein votes will not be the reason that Democrats lose. If we lose it will be because we made similar terrible campaign mistakes in 2016 as Gore did in 1996. If it is a close election and we lose we can blame it on Jill Stein instead of the incompetence of the DNC and the two congressional campaign committees in the House and Senate.

          7. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Of course they do. So do Perot voters. Everyone rationalizes their mistakes.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          8. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            You are either totally uninformed or intentionally lying in order to disrupt the discussion with rational questions, answers and comments.

          9. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Before you comment look up the 2000 election and stop making weak arguments based on emotion. Gore lost the election by a few thousand votes. Without Nader no recount would have necessary.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          10. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            A crappy campaign, an unwillingness to maintain and renew the challenge to the corrupt voting, an unwillingness to accept campaign support from president Clinton had a lot to do with the failure of the Gore campaign. Do you even read or study political history? Your comments are those of a high school civics lesson drop out. Stop the one-liners and automated talking points have an intelligent conversation. You can have and are entitled to your own opinions (in which your comment should be preceded by “I think” or “IMHO”, but you are not entitled to your own facts or historical truth.

          11. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            What are you talking about? I always base my responses on fact. I try to avoid what you are guilty of and that is the emotional response. As a teacher of Social Science for nearly 40 years I would pick my knowledge of elections over your emotion laden morass.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          12. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            You seem to base your responses on your personal selection of facts, rather than all of the facts. Your level of certainty, however, exceeds your level of accuracy. 40 years of being wrong doesn’t make one right, just 40 years older. I am sure that you would always pick your ‘knowledge’ of elections over mine or anyone else’s. You have proven that over and over, even when you are clearly wrong, all day today.

          13. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            What is your major malfunction? If you have a point make it. Otherwise get lost. I have no time to waste with someone who is pointless. Elections are not cut and dried. My point has been simply all summer. Hopes and expectations are often lost. Grow up and move on. This nomination process is not over despite the pundits. Just because you want a result does not mean it will occur.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          14. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            It always makes me laugh when Hillary supporters cite her experience and they think it’s somehow a good thing. Decades of experience being corrupt and making bad decisions isn’t a particularly good selling point.

          15. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

            Stop calling us Clintonistas. You sound like a teabagger.

          16. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            Na, Na, Na, Na, Na, Na. You folks started it with Bernie Bros. If you can do schoolyard silliness, we get to do the same.

          17. Cloudherder March 12, 2016

            Bernie Bros? I don’t think there is a negative connotation to that like there is Clintonistas. I have only heard the term Bernie Bros once and it was from a Bernie supporter (I used to be one at the very beginning).

        3. JPHALL March 11, 2016

          Do not forget Nader and the resultingBush2 presidency!

          1. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            Nader ran as a third party candidate, as I assumed you knew. His stupid move was one of the two or three things that caused the Bush presidency. That is why we are all very happy that Bernie is running as a Democrat and has agreed to support Clinton if she is the nominee and as I am sure Clinton will support Sanders if he is the nominee. And please, JP, no BS about how Bernie is not a real Democrat. We are where we are now with two D candidates. One will win. I want Sanders, you want, I think, Clinton.

          2. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Why do you Bernier bloggers always assume that someone is anti Bernie if they point out the fallacies you present? Unlike you I am a Realist and Pragmatist. I will wait and see, before making grand pronouncements either way.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          3. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            There you go again JP. I am a Democratic blogger, maybe a progressive blogger and as such I support Bernie Sanders for president. Calling me or others ‘Bernie Bloggers’ is an effort, like Bernie Bros to diminish and minimize us when logic and reason do not support your opinions. I do not assume anything from other than the facts and data presented to me. If, as they say, it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and goes ‘quack, quack’ we can assume that it is a duck (or a person dressed up like a duck). When you deny the high potential for Hillary to be crushed in a debate with either Trump or Cruz, you are ignoring the polls and the devastating effect of the constant attacks on Clinton and her credibility for the past two or three decades. Your are not being a Realist. If you were a pragmatist, you would look at all of the data out there floating about the social media universe and look for the best way to overcome Clinton’s irreparable shortcomings instead of attacking Sander’s supporters and Sanders as wildly and harmfully idealistic.

          4. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Why should I become involved in hearsay? If you can prove something, then prove it. Stop repeating the same unproven memes and your unsupported fantasy about the election. The primaries are not over and your predictions are about as useless as the pundits on Michigan.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          5. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Damn. That was very well put.

  4. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

    Let’s see which Hillary we get Nobember. Will we get the Hillary that is the progressive who gets things done? Or will we get the Goldwater Girl who is proud of how her political beliefs are rooted in conservatism?

    1. nana4gj March 11, 2016

      In all of her adult life, she has been a Progressive before the term for Democrats ever existed. She has been a Liberal who got things done before people knew her name, much less her label. She has not required elected office to get things done. That Goldwater Girl grew up in her father’s home. When she became an adult, she became a Democrat. Of all of the attacks on her, the suspicion that she remains a Goldwater Girl, rooted in conservatism, is the moist lame. One has only to look at her adult career and the causes she has advocated, and the work she has done.

      When she became a threat to the Republicans, as FLOTUS, she was a “flaming left wing hippie liberal” who did not know her place.

      1. laurele March 11, 2016

        Progressives do not support “free trade” agreements like NAFTA and GATT that send millions of jobs overseas. Progressives do not support Gingrich “welfare reform” bills, the death penalty, or crime bills that send non-violent offenders to prison. Progressives don’t take huge amounts of money from Wall Street, Monsanto, WalMart, and companies who run private prisons. Hillary is not a progressive, which is why she will never get my vote.

      2. Jim Sylvester March 11, 2016

        The term Progressive Democrat has never NOT existed. The rest of this essay is equally wrong.

      3. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

        What innuendos? More than 30 years after working for Goldwater who ran on a campaign solely based on stopping civil rights movement she states that her political beliefs were rooted from conservatism. She states that she is a moderate and was proud of being a Goldwater Girl. These particular comments were made 1996 when Bill was trying to get re elected and they both were positioning themselves as centrists to win the election. As a result we got crime bills, Nafta, welfare reform and the repeal of Glass Stiegel. To refer to Hillary as liberal is laughable. I guess she evolves daily depending on the polls and her audience. This is easy to verify.

        1. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

          When did she work for Goldwater? I have read several book about her life. No.

          1. A_Real_Einstein March 12, 2016

            1964 Presidential Campaign. Google Hillary Goldwater Girl.

          2. Cloudherder March 12, 2016

            She was a kid then and not even old enough to vote! I voted for Nixon, for gawds sake!

          3. A_Real_Einstein March 12, 2016

            And 30 years later when stumping for Bill she said often that her political beliefs are rooted in conservatism and she was proud to have been a Goldwater girl. Were you proud of your vote for Nixon? Who she is or what she says depends on what audience she is front of or what the polls say. She completely lacks authenticity. She reeks of the establishment. She represents the past. Bernie is all about the future. Think about your kids and grandkids and what kind of world we leave them. I would love to see SS and Medicare expanded. Too many over 65 live in poverty. We can do better.

      4. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

        YES. Exactly this. Well put Nana.

    2. Patricia McCullough March 11, 2016

      My guess is you are VERY young, because when Goldwater ran in 1964 I was in high school, yet I am older than Hillary. Just like her I grew up in a Republican home & really knew no difference. By the time I was able to vote at 21 in 1967 I voted Democratic and have NEVER looked back. Holding a high school activity more than 50 years later, against her is stupid at best. Going to Nixon rallies with my Mom are hardly the only mistakes I made in High school.

      1. laurele March 11, 2016

        Hillary was 18 and in college at the time.

        1. Patricia McCullough March 11, 2016

          since she was born in 1947, that would make her 16 or 16 in 1964 when Goldwater ran. By the time she graduated she became a McCarthy follower in 1968 & has been a Democrat ever since. FACTS MATTER!!!

          1. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

            Patricia: When politics required her and Bill to be conservative in 1996, she was ‘proud’ of her history as a goldwater supporter. In this campaign Sanders has demonstrated that progressive policy is required so she is copying Sander’s progressive proposals just slightly triangulated to give hope to Wall Street and the MIC. She is very much and has been an institutional, status quo, centrist Democrat since her conversion. Many people in the party do not want to have that kind of Democrat in the White House. We want real progressive change with a candidate that we can believe in. That is Sanders.

          2. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            No, that is not true. What is necessary is realism. Sander’s ideas feel nice but are unrealistic with a Republican Congress. What all you Bernie types should be talking about is taking back Congress. But that will require work as opposed to idealism.

          3. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            JP; We ‘Bernie types’ are working at taking back congress from both the Republicans and the people like DWS who just joined the republicans in their attack on legislation controlling payday loan scams. If you want realism, look at the positive polling for every one of Sander’s proposed policies. Realism is looking at what needs to be accomplished and then pursuing it. That is exactly what Saders supporters are doing. If you have doubts about that, check out the small ‘Bernie-sized’ campaign contributions to progressive candidates for everything from city councils to the Senate through ActBlue.

          4. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            No, realism is looking at what actually can be accomplished now. Idealism is looking at what needs to be done and taking it as achievable without dealing with the formidable obstacles. And that sadly is Bernie’s campaign. Just vote for me and magically the obstacles disappear.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          5. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            He has actually rejected your simplistic BS out of hand. That is the basis for a Sanders theme: ‘We Not me” as in the last debate, in which you must have missed the closing remarks that generated a standing ovation. There he said no one person can change the political and economic system that must be changed, only the people, all working together can do that and that he would work with the people to make those changes. That my mind clouded friend, is realism, writ large.

          6. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            So give me an example in real life that supports that. That is his idealism. If you believe it will happen, it will. Tell that nonsense to two Democrat and thirteen Republican candidates this year.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          7. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            No, Jp: “If you believe it will happen, work with others to make it happen, exert constant pressure to make it happen and apply that pressure constantly, it can happen and often will happen”.
            You want examples? The Civil Rights Act, Freedom to marry, The collapse of the Berlin Wall, the creation of millions of square miles of our public lands protected from destruction, millions of square mile of the world ocean protected from destructive fishing and exploitation, the Social Security System, The Affordable Care Act, The election of a Black president, and, you want idealism beyond belief, in a world of Kings and Queens, Popes and Autocrats, the creation of an independent democratic republic with a constitution that guarantees freedoms that amazed the rest of the world.

          8. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Once again that is idealism. I am not an Idealist.

            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          9. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            You asked for examples and I gave them to you. You are in denial.

          10. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Did you see the look on Hillary’s face when the crowd erupted for Bernie? That was priceless.

      2. Jim Sylvester March 11, 2016

        I’m even older than Patricia. I VOTED for Goldwater in 1964. My swing to the left came later. And I don’t have to go back 50 years to find something to complain about with Hillary. When, in the first debate, she put down ‘single payer’ as unrealistic, and then said a $15 per hour minimum wage was too high; $13 would do just fine, that was all I needed.

      3. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

        Unfortunately Hillary has gone on the record more than 30 years later that she was proud of being a Goldwater girl and that her political ideology is rooted in conservatism. Without Bernie she would be running as a moderate in this primary and will track hard right in the General. She is not a liberal but if you are ok with right center President than she is your girl. Her own words

        1. Sand_Cat March 11, 2016

          If we have to have a conservative, Goldwater would be a far better choice than any of the Fascists the GOP has put forward this year, with the possible exception of John Kasich. Today’s “conservatives” would probably reject Goldwater: too much of that “liberal” honesty and genuine concern for the country.

          1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Don’t let Kasich’s nice guy demeanor fool you. He sure as hell is no moderate. He’s just slightly less extreme than Cruz or Rubio.

    3. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

      Which Hillary will we get in November? The one who still can’t figure out how she TWICE went from inevitable to loser.

    4. Jim Sylvester March 11, 2016

      Nobody will know, until she stops evolving.

    5. Sand_Cat March 11, 2016

      I’m more worried about getting Teddy or Donnie in November. I’ll take “Goldwater Girl” over either of them if I have to.

  5. bluetah March 11, 2016

    I am reminding my friends of this on a regular basis. Nothing would be more insulting to the cause that Sanders supporters claim loyalty and support than to stalk of and pout about losing- and refuse to vote for Hillary. Remember the right wing has been attempting to assassinate the character of Bill and Hillary for more than 20 years now. And in more than 20 years there has been some “buy-in” on the part of some Liberals- especially the purist pristine crowd. Fact is, are we witnessing the beginning of a left wing Tea Party? Is that what the extreme part of the Bernie folks are in the beginning of creating?

    1. laurele March 11, 2016

      Opposition to Hillary has nothing to do with “stalking and pouting about losing.” It’s not about winning and losing at all, and claiming that it is is insulting to those of us who in principle could never support someone with Hillary’s policy positions, record of flip flopping, and being beholden to Wall Street and big corporations. The entire Democratic leadership has done everything possible to shove her down our throats instead of letting the people of the party make the decision. If they force a candidate with so many negatives onto the party, they will have only themselves to blame if they lose in November.

      1. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

        Absolutely correct. It is time for the true progressives to take our country back. Obama gave us a start and Bernie and Liz can take us all the way home. Let the revolution begin and the Clinton supporters can join us in November.

        1. Sand_Cat March 11, 2016

          Sorry, but Obama is nearly as conservative as Hillary.
          I’d like to have a successful Bernie Sanders as president with a Democratic Senate, at least, but I’ll take a successful Hillary. Don’t know what to say: it does seem we’ll never get the person we want if we vote the lesser of two evils, but in today’s world, I think we’re unlikely to get that by any means, and I’m not prepared to sit through another eight years of a lunatic president and a spineless Democratic Congress afraid to stand up to him, and I’m not sure we’ll still have a republic – if we have one now – at the end of it. Far too much damage has been done already.
          Whatever Joe Conason thinks of Bernie, it seems to me highly unlikely he can sway things much one way or the other.

      2. JPHALL March 11, 2016

        So why do you repeat Republican memes against Clinton? Come up with your own!

        1. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

          Unfortunately many of those memes are not produced by Republicans but by disaffected Democrats, mostly on the center-left and from the progressive grass roots of the party. Most of those are based on Clinton’s own flaws, not the construction of images out of thin air.

          1. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Sure they are not Republican. Not! The Republicans spoke them first and repeat them every chance they get. The only difference is the meme “Benghazi”.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          2. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            You have data to back up your assertion, I suppose. Or you just need to make it ‘us Clinton Democrats’ against everyone who does not support Clinton and is, therefore, ‘them’ the Republicans. That is the motto that the right wing has been using to divide America since Reagan. It is a shame to see every disagreement with some folks devolve into “us vs. them”.

          3. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Why do you change my words to fit your idealism? I have never used us vs. them. I have only said that it is immature to threaten people in power with not voting. It solves nothing. They love you giving up your little voice.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          4. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            In the world of JP, ALL attacks against Hillary are Republican attacks, because someone on the left attacking her is simply unfathomable.

      3. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

        None of that is actually true

        1. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

          Actually, Cloudherder, it is the absolute truth. Even the media that has endorsed Clinton has recognized the manipulation of Debbie Wasserman Schultz and her DNC club in her effort to make Clinton the inevitable Democratic candidate.
          Others, besides myself have also pointed out that the thinly veiled strategy of limiting early debates and horrible scheduling has not only harmed Sanders and O’Malley, Webb and other candidates but Hillary, herself.
          The cute DWS and DNC strategists allowed Clinton to be the designated punching bag for every right wing nut and Republican official and candidate from July of last year until now. They allowed every scar and scab in Clinton’s history to be torn open and obvious to every American and most of the world to see.
          She had no opportunity to build any program in the course of early debates that she could have been vetting in contrast to the other Democratic candidates. As a result she has been constantly on the defense from the right instead of establishing her credibility with the left and progressives.
          Now the Clinton supporters inside and outside of her campaign want to blame the Sanders supporters for pointing out the open bleeding wounds that the DNC provided the opportunity for the right wing to open and show to the world.

          1. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            If the debates debacle did any damage to Bernie, it was only in delaying getting his message out to the population and giving him an even bigger hill to climb. In the end, I don’t think it will matter. Enough people know who he is now and more are finding out by the day. Which, coincidentally is why DWS did what she did with the debates to begin with; to shelter Hillary.

      4. bluetah March 12, 2016

        Perhaps you are one of the frozen ones- who will be paralyzed by not getting exactly what you want- and by default, elect President Trump. Enjoy!

        1. laurele March 12, 2016

          You’re mistaking me with Hillary. She’s the one who insists on getting EVERYTHING she wants, including $21 million in speaking fees from Wall Street and the presidency, the public and future of the country be damned. If we end up with President Trump, she will be to blame for putting him there.

          1. bluetah March 13, 2016

            I don’t want to be right about this, but your screed against HRC confirms you for what I suspected- a sort of a left wing in name only Tea Party style supporter- and if you can’t shake off the hero worship – you and your group will ensure Trump’s dystopian victory.

          2. laurele March 13, 2016

            No hero worship here, just a commitment to the progressive ideas and ideals I have held to all my life. I already said that I would not vote for her even if Bernie never came on the scene. You are unfortunately projecting all of Hillary’s weaknesses onto me. She’s the one who is “left wing in name only.” I could never support someone who spent 20+ years trying to move the Democratic Party to the right through the DLC and “third way.”

          3. bluetah March 13, 2016

            Most intriguing how folks love to charge Clinton with policies that were proposed and passed long before she was even in an elective office. Now that’s a broadbrush.

    2. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

      It’s funny when Hillary supporters whine about decades of Republican attacks on her and accuse Bernie supporters of falling prey to them. The reality is, we have a problem with her for being TOO MUCH like a Republican.

      1. JPHALL March 11, 2016

        Like I said to laurels stop using Republican memes to prove your position against Clinton, you sound just like them. Come up with your own.

        1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

          What in the world are you talking about? lol

          Republicans take money from the billionaires and support interventionist foreign policy. Hillary takes money from the billionaires and supports interventionist foreign policy. Bernie does neither. Tell me again how that is a right wing talking point.

          1. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Are you really that unknowing? Pacifism does not work for nations other than Switzerland. And we all know why no one wants to invade them. Pacifists are absorbed and forgotten.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          2. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Your understanding of foreign policy is almost as weak as your understanding of Hillary criticisms.

          3. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Explain how my grasp of “Realpolitik” is deficient. I am after all a Social Science major who taught it for nearly 40 years..
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          4. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            I’m on the left and I criticize Hillary for being too far to the right but you try to dismiss those criticisms as right wing talking points. The right criticizes her for being too far LEFT, genius. I criticize her for being too far RIGHT.

            I feel sorry for your students if you taught Social Science for 40 years. You don’t even know how SDs work.

          5. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            No I feel sorry for you since you think the Left is the majority of the Democratic Party. I would have taught you better! Unlike the modern Repug party, the Democrat party has three distinct wings with the Left as its smallest. That is why Clinton swung to the center in 1992. Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          6. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            At least you admit Hillary is a centrist. That’s the most honest thing you’ve said all day. She sure as hell isn’t a liberal or a progressive.

          7. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Centrists in the Democratic party are Liberals and Progressives.

            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          8. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            That is the dumbest thing you have said all day. But I’ll give you credit, it did make me laugh.

          9. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            I can’t help you confusion on the terms and their meanings. At one time Republicans were progressives. See T. Roosevelt.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          10. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Liberals and progressives constitute the left wing. Claiming that centrists are liberal or progressive only shows your basic lack of understand of political terms.

          11. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Only to you. Define a Centrist and contrast that to Liberal or Progressive. Remember left or right has nothing to do with Liberalism or Progressivism
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          12. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            No, that’s okay. You’ve already proven to me that I’d be wasting my time explaining any of this to you.

          13. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Because you can’t. Like most idealist you do not know the termiology you use.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          14. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            *shrugs* I’ve already explained it to you. It’s not my fault you lack basic comprehension skills.

          15. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            You have explained nothing. You gave a snarky comment with no information.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          16. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

            Actually, JP, left and right like center-left and center-right have a great deal to do with both traditional liberalism and progressivism.

          17. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            I know that. Like Communists and Anarchists are also Leftists, just extremes.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          18. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

            Go read a political science book. Hell, go look up “progressive” on Wikipedia!

          19. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

            F*ck you. I’m a Centrist progressive.

          20. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            I love you too.

          21. Cloudherder March 12, 2016

            I know you do. Just don’t tell my husband.

          22. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

            I’m sorry, but you are behaving really badly Tater. Quit using personal insults, you are beginning to sound like a Trump supporter.

          23. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Blame the stupid. Don’t blame the person calling out the stupid.

          24. Cloudherder March 12, 2016

            The fact that you think anyone that doesn’t agree with you or sees things from a different perspective as “stupid” is your first problem. Have you ever concidered that they might have more or different information from you? Hey, why don’t you just vote for Trump and get it over with. That is what a vote for Sanders will be. I could call you stupid at this point, but I just think you have put blinders on and aren’t seeing the big picture.

          25. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Creationists see things from a different perspective. It’s their perspective that the planet is only 6000 years old, evolution is a hoax and a 500 year old man floated around on a giant boat full of animals while the entire planet was covered with water.

            Having a different perspective does not exempt someone from being mocked for stupidity should that perspective be insanely stupid.

      2. bluetah March 12, 2016

        It is sad when folks think that decades of attacks are funny. It is worse when the champion of these folks- acts like a Republican propagandist.

    3. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

      What exactly is extreme about wanting a government that works for all of the people as opposed to just the wealthy and well connected?
      What is extreme about wanting to do dismantle a campaign finance system where all of the candidates are on the take and billionaires buy our elections and install their puppets?
      What is extreme about putting your full support behind a candidate that believes in health care for all, now before more people die?
      What is extreme about putting you full support behind a candidate that believes in less intervention in the Middle East as opposed to more?
      I guess we just disagree who will provide better leadership.
      We do not hate Hillary , but we love Bernie.

      We just want to see a fair fight and wish the media, the DNC, and the Establishment would quit jumping up and down on the scales and pick our candidate for us.

      Hillary started this race with 400 plus Superdelegates committed to her. Could they have at least waited until their constituents voted? What kind of democracy is that? So excuse us if we are little upset if the candidate is not determined by the will of the people?

      1. bluetah March 12, 2016

        No qualms about Sanders goals- many qualms about his nebulous, magical thinking that are his methods of getting there. Bernie is too simplistic to be successful- even if he is elected President. In addition, look at his career- he does not do any compromising whatsoever. The only Senator who refuses to work in a bipartisan manner as much as Bernie is Ted “Joe McCarthy Junior” Cruz- Ted only went bipartisan 3% of the time- but Bernie only acted in a bipartisan manner 2% of the time.
        Successful governing not only involves some compromise – but also realism. All of Bernie’s plans will need to be adjusted, in so many ways, it is really astounding. I am not talking about his tax increases to the upper brackets- they are abut the same as Hillary. Bernie will over burden the middle class because his goals are just a bridge too far. If he is President- expect another 4 years of even worse gridlock- and a one term President. There are so many flaws in his single payer proposal alone- it would take many words to begin to describe the problems. If we want single payer- Bernie can’t get it done.
        Hillary had a lot of super delegates when she ran against Barack Obama- and he overcame those numbers. Why complain about them now?

        1. A_Real_Einstein March 12, 2016

          I pay nearly 20k per year in health insurance premiums for my family. That is just the premiums. What do you pay? What is Hillary’s plan for me? Funny how most people I know that are against single payer are on single payer. Of course we can do this.

          1. bluetah March 13, 2016

            I pay 1800 per year- and that is less than 2% of my salary- Bernie is now admitting to needing an 11% tax increase to fund his sudden single payer- we are not economically ready for that. The middle class can’t take that much of a tax increase right now. An increase of that size would destroy any small recovery that has been accomplished.
            And Bernie doesn’t have any details at all about how he will suddenly just order physicians to make much less than they do at present- no plans at all. His programs are so vague as to really just qualify as rhetoric- and nothing else.


          2. A_Real_Einstein March 13, 2016


            I got mine so screw everyone else. Actually Bernie has a very detailed plan. Your taxes would go up about $700 and you will no longer have premiums, deductibles or copays. You will save around $2500 and everybody else will have coverage too. We heard the same BS about Obamacare. Unemployment will skyrocket. All of the physicians will quit, everybody will be moved to part time. Ya da ya da ya da. You are a dick.

          3. bluetah March 13, 2016

            Those figures are so distant from reality that they are, as I said, just rhetoric.

          4. A_Real_Einstein March 13, 2016

            Health care costs go down when you remove the profits and negotiate with Big Pharma. What are Hillarys plans? Oh I forgot she does not have any.

          5. bluetah March 13, 2016

            If you do not know what the Clinton plan is- you should not have already decided you are not in favor. Her method is to build upon what we already- and add strength to the medicaid portion, expend Medicare and eventually bring about single payer- all without a quick collapse of the health insurance industry and their thousands of workers, and without undue pressure upon the VA- which would really take a hit if it were expected to handle a drastically increased patient load under the Sanders plan. And, of course we might want to assure ourselves that the law would contain a necessity for our employers to continue to pay us the premium that Bernie claims we won’t pay anymore(that’s not going to be easy either). I don’t know if you noticed- but most folks don’t really see any premium money- our employers just deduct it.
            Then , we are left with that pesky phyician reimbursement problem- I thnk that is a big one. And don’t forget- and I think this is Bernie’s biggest flaw- he thinks he can depend on 33 of 50 governors,(who are GOP), to implement his plan. Too many moonbeams in the Bernie care.
            Indeed. After questioning about the lightly regarded and unreal 4% tax increase- Bernieconomists have upgraded to between 6% and 9% for middle class tax increases. Most progressive economists think 11-14% is what the true cost might be.

  6. plc97477 March 11, 2016

    A study was done in the 90s I think that showed that repugs will walk over hot coals to vote for their candidate if that candidate is having political mud thrown at him, even if the mud is sticking, even if the candidate is facing jail time the repugs will make sure they throw their support at him. Dems. on the other side do not like muddy campaigns. They will not vote for someone who is throwing mud. Although to a large extent bernie is keeping it fairly clean his supporters are not. They are going to jeopardize the campaign so we could end up with president trump. Clean it up of suffer the consequences.

    1. Jim Sylvester March 11, 2016

      I honestly think that most people will not be voting for Bernie’s supporters, they’ll be voting for HIM. Bernie is keeping it VERY clean,

      1. Dominick Vila March 18, 2016

        Contentions debates are common place in American politics. What worries me is when I hear Bernie’s supporters say that they will not vote for Hillary if she is our nominee. I hope the consider the consequences of not voting. A Trump or Cruz presidency will not only be a foreign and domestic policies disaster, it would change the ideological make up of the Supreme Court forever, and pave the way for social and judicial changes that would take us back to the pre-Civil Rights days. With a vacant Justice seat the GOP plans to keep vacant until after the election, and at least two more SCOTUS vacancies around the corner, this election is likely to be one of the most important in our lives. We must remain united, use our heads, and VOTE!

        1. Jim Sylvester March 20, 2016

          Somehow, too many forget that there are 26 Senate seats up, and 435 House seats. We are going to take the Congress back. In virtually every tracking poll, Sanders beats Trump decisively, Clinton does not do as well. Sanders can win. I will never vote for any establishment candidate from either party.

          By the way, Ted Cruz is Barry Goldwater all over again, except not so nice, and even worse. He will lose to any Democrat by 20 to 30%

          I’ve been around a long time. I’ve followed every election since 1956, and I’ve voted in every one since 1960. My assessment is based on experience.

    2. dtgraham March 11, 2016

      We get another picture of a Bernie supporter mocking Hillary with a sign and a mask at the top of the story. That’s commonplace here now. There have been a number of articles at the National Memo taking his supporters to task. I’ve never heard of that before. The candidate yes, but his supporters?

      We both know full well that there must have been Hillary supporters giving it to Bernie at Hillary rallies. That’s just politics. That’s some of what happens at rallies. It’s not a big deal, but they’re making it a big deal and they never, ever, show Hillary supporters in a bad light.

      It’s this kind of non-stop bias that’s helping to turn off Bernie supporters big time I’m sure. If Joe Conason is afraid that they won’t show up in November to vote for Hillary in sufficient numbers, he’s one of the ones contributing to that.

      1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

        I liked NM a lot more before it turned into a running advertisement for Hillary Clinton.

        1. dtgraham March 11, 2016

          You and me both.

          1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            It’s going to be fun seeing their response after Bernie has a strong showing on the 15th and then starts crushing her in the back half of the primaries when the more liberal states get to vote. After the 15th, we could realistically see Bernie take an 8 state winning streak into NY.

          2. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Wishful thinking. Remember the polls are a joke and that the vast majority of super delegates support Clinton.

          3. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            You’re lying to yourself if you think the DNC will use SDs to override the will of the people. They may be corrupt but they are not suicidal.

          4. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Do you know what a SD is? They are party leaders. Of course they will if they feel it is in the best interests of the party. Their votes for a candidate weigh in the same as yours. The same with the Repugs.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          5. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            If Bernie wins more pledged delegates but the DNC gifts the nomination to Hillary anyways, they will be electing Donald Trump because the base would revolt. If you think the base would support Hillary after something like that, you’re even more delusional than I thought.

          6. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Once again you miss the point. She already has nearly half the delegates she needs for the nomination. The are nearly a thousand Super delegates.She already has most of them. No gift is needed.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          7. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            You have no idea how SDs work, do you? They don’t actually vote until the convention and can change their mind at any time. They are put out there now in an attempt to influence voters. They want to discourage Bernie supporters from showing up to vote. They most certainly are not already decided.

            Again, the DNC will not rig it with SDs unless they want Trump to be president. They’ll nominate who the base decides they will nominate because the base will revolt if they don’t.

          8. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Again wrong. Name some SD”s who are not supporting Clinton.

            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          9. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            You just keep failing harder and harder. SDs haven’t voted yet. Are you really delusional enough to think that the base will turn out to support someone they did not choose to be their candidate?

          10. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Get some facts. I never said they have voted. I said that the majority have come out as her supporters.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          11. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Yeah, they support her now because they want to influence the vote. They won’t support her later when she loses the vote to Bernie.

          12. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Again your opinion. They will do what they think is best for the party.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          13. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            It’s never happened before and that’s not an opinion, that’s a fact. And you’re insanely stupid if you think the base would just happily go along with who the establishment selected for them when they selected someone else.

          14. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            You are still being idealistic and not realistic. They do not care what you or I think. They believe in power. The base will vote, just without you. You are a minority in the party. Get over it. These blogs give people the illusion of importance. Stop falling for it.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          15. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            I honestly don’t even know what to say here. The fact that you think the DNC could nominate Hillary and get the support of a base that just picked Bernie as the nominee is so insanely stupid that I have no reply for it.

            You have fun with that delusion. Best get used to saying President Trump if the DNC steals the nomination from Bernie.

          16. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Do you realize that Bernie has to nearly run the table on the rest of the delegates? You honestly believe that Clinton will not get a few hundred more delegates in the voting till the Convention? And a contested convention can happen.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before NovemberClinto will not get anymore delegates?

          17. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            JP: It is only a possibility that Bernie will win. Till we see that it is over, you should really stop trying to get us to believe that the fat lady has sung.

          18. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            I have never said that anything was over. That is your fantasy. I have only said that you Bernie supporters online seem to think that everything will fall your way. It usually doesn’t!
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          19. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Correct. Hillary may still win but it is far from over. This conversation will be a lot more interesting in a few weeks when Bernie starts crushing her out west.

          20. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Do you realize the delegate count is 748-542 and there are still well over 2000 delegates left to vote? Your math sucks as bad as you grip on reality if you think Hillary only needs a few hundred more delegates to lock this up.

          21. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            I see your problem now. Your numbers are off. Try the site: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/democratic_delegate_count.html then comment
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          22. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            That’s the site I’m using. The only numbers that count right now are pledged delegates.

          23. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            What did you think the numbers at the top of the chart represented? Clinton leads almost 2:1.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          24. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Okay, JP, I am going to explain this to you one last time and then I am not going to repeat myself again. The only numbers that matter right now are pledged delegates. Whoever wins the most pledged delegates will get the support of the SDs needed to secure the nomination. The reason why that will happen is because it would be political suicide for the DNC to override the will of the people by gifting Hillary the nomination via SDs if Bernie wins more pledged delegates. The only reason SDs announce their support early is in an attempt to influence voters. They want Bernie supporters to think Hillary has a bigger lead than she really does, so they won’t show up to vote for him. If they did steal the nomination from him by using SDs to nominate Hillary after he won more pledged delegates, the base would revolt and either vote Trump or not vote at all.

            American voters are pretty big on the whole democracy thing. You’re insane if you think the voting base would simply accept having their will overridden by the establishment and then show up to vote for the establishment pick. If the DNC tried to do that, it would tank the election for Democrats on all levels and give Republicans complete control of the country. The DNC may be corrupt but they are not suicidal, which is why whoever wins the most pledged delegates will be the nominee.

          25. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            It appears now that it is to be decided if we, including all of the new 2014, 15 and 16 members of the party are the minority you so easily dismiss and disdain. Good luck dealing with the disruption of your fantasy political life.

          26. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Like all idealists you think you know everything. Look at previous elections. The polls are more often wrong. Remember Karl Rove. You have no idea of my political fantasies because they do not match yours or what you seem to expect.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          27. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            That is a Clintonesque fantasy world. Survival as a party is best for the party and voting against the earned delegates would be the destruction of the party for at least a generation. They are professional politicians, they know all of that.

          28. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Like Tater you believe that the win in Michigan is significant and that Clinton will lose the rest of the delegates. That is a fantasy. At best it will be a contested convention.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          29. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            Why now, do you desert realism in favor of a never to be realized fantasy? The SDs will, with exception of a few establishment folks who are owned more by the banks than Clinton ever would be, will vote for the candidate who earns the most delegates.

          30. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            What fantasy are you talking about. I said the SD will vote for whatever they feel is best for the party as a whole, not a wing. The fantasy is yours.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          31. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            Republicans (unfortunately from their point of view right now) have a very different system of delegate selection and candidate nomination. PS: You are wrong and Tater is right. If the SDs were to overturn the earned delegate votes to nominate Clinton, Trump or Cruz will be president. Even DWS is not that stupid.

          32. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Like the Republicans are finding out the base is not the intelligent. The same is true for the Democrats. Most vote feelings.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          33. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Corrupt, yes. Stupid. no. She’ll do everything within her power to get Hillary nominated but she won’t tank the election over it.

          34. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

            And what happens when he loses on the 15th instead?

          35. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            He doesn’t need to win the 15th to stay in it. He just needs to keep it close. It’ll be all Bernie after that.

          36. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

            He is already massively behind; the “victory” he got the other day made him a profit of 7 delegates (while meanwhile Clinton got 26 from Mississippi, a quarter its size in terms of delegates). The states up for grabs on the 15th have huge numbers of delegates, and he isn’t polling close in any of them. It’s certainly possible he might get an upset win in one of them; possible but not very likely. So, to repeat my question: what happens when he loses on the 15th?

          37. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            He’s down by 206 delegates will something like 2700 delegates still up for grabs. That’s not what I call being massively behind. He wasn’t polling close in Michigan either and you see how that turned out. Funny thing about that landline polling: it all but ignores Bernie’s biggest voting bloc, Millennials. NC will be a lock for Hillary because of her Southern strength. Florida is not a typical Southern state, so we’ll just have to see how it goes. He has good chances of winning in Ohio, Illinois and Missouri.

            Like I said, he doesn’t need to win the 15th to stay in it. After then, the primary map swings in his favor the rest of the way. Hillary won’t be able to rely on Southern states anymore and her lead will steadily diminish as we head into the summer. The race won’t be decided until June 7th. Just as a reminder, there are nearly 700 delegates up for grabs that day and they are all from states that favor Bernie.

          38. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

            He won Michigan by 1%, and got almost nothing for it. Meanwhile, Clinton won a much tinier state so thoroughly that she still increased the margin of her lead. There is no path that I can see where he is going to make up to 700-odd delegates he is behind by, an enormous number that is only going to increase on the 15th. You don’t seem to want to include the super delegates in the total for some reason, but the supers always vote for the more popular candidate, and that remains Clinton by a considerable margin.

            Perspective: Obama, at this point (in fact a month before this point), was ahead in total delegate count even counting the super delegates pledged to Clinton. He also had the advantage of two large Clinton states moving their conventions and getting stripped of half their delegates. Given that, he still only narrowly won.

            All this is irrelevant, however – you said Sanders is definitely going to make a “strong showing” on the 15th; that seems unlikely, given that Clinton is far, far ahead in every state poll (and those states have been far more thoroughly; what happens if and when the likely scenario plays out and Clinton increases her lead by a substantial amount on the 15th?

          39. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            “You don’t seem to want to include the super delegates in the total for
            some reason, but the supers always vote for the more popular candidate”

            LOL you just unwittingly answered the question as to why I don’t include SDs in the tally. It’s because they always vote for the more popular candidate. If Bernie wins more pledged delegate, that will make him the more popular candidate. The DNC may be corrupt but they are not suicidal. The reason SDs are announced early is to influence the voters. They want idiots who do not understand how this works to believe Hillary has a much bigger lead than she really does. Rest assured, they won’t defy the will of the people and gift Hillary the nomination if the people pick Bernie to be the nominee. To be so blatantly undemocratic and rig the system to nominate their preferred candidate instead of the candidate chosen by the people would be political suicide and would not only cost them the WH, it would devastate them on down ticket elections too.

            The only numbers that matter right now are 748-542 with 2700 to go. Whoever has the most pledged delegates at the end will be the nominee. It’s that simple.

          40. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

            I don’t think you understand how the super delegates work. But anyway, how is Sanders going to make that up – still huge – lead, given that he’s ahead in exactly zero large states (100 or more delegates)? And what happens when he gets slaughtered on the 15th, which is the most likely outcome?

          41. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            We’re going in circles here. I’ve already answered your questions. Bernie is down by 206 with 2700 to go. He has a chance to put in a strong showing on the 15th. SDs haven’t voted yet. And the back half of the primaries favor him much more heavily. If you have new questions, shoot. If not, I’m not going to keep repeating myself.

          42. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

            He’s down by 700, no matter how much you pretend otherwise. If Hillary gets 1100 more delegates, she instantly wins. That is how super delegates work.

          43. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Yup. SDs are set in stone. That’s why so many of them switched from Hillary to Obama 8 years ago.

            Hey, I can only explain these things to you. I can’t help you understand them. If you want to continue believing your delusions, don’t let me stand in your way. The race is far from over. We’ll see what’s what when the states are done voting. And if Bernie wins more pledged delegates, he WILL be the nominee. You can bank on that.

            And with that, there is nothing left to be said here. Have fun with your stupid and have a groovy day. Adios.

          44. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

            You seem to think that there’s some sort of point buried in your posts that I’m just not getting; this is incorrect. The moment that Clinton reaches 2383 delegates – regardless of whether those delegates are super or not – she wins. You can’t pretend that won’t happen, and that makes her the clear leader. On the 15th, she will take another huge step towards that goal; even if Sanders manages to get an upset win, she’s still going to pull even further ahead.

          45. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

            PS: None of the delegates have voted yet. They vote in July.

          46. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

            Lastly, the “back half of the primaries favor him much more heavily” simply isn’t true. All the large states – the ones with the minority populations Sanders hasn’t tried to win over – show Clinton ahead. Winning small, mostly-white states won’t help – he has no path to get the delegates he needs.

      2. yabbed March 11, 2016

        I don’t think the posters identifying as Bernie supporters are anything but GOP operatives and trolls for the NRA and AIPAC. They are paid to trash talk Hillary so the Republicans can move back into the Oval Office.

        1. dtgraham March 11, 2016

          I don’t have a problem believing that some are on the internet. I mostly recognize the posting names of Bernie supporters here as long time National Memo liberal Democrats though.

          1. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            But not that many.

          2. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

            JP, please excuse my brief invasion of your homepage. I made a couple of responses there instead of onsite here and I apologize.

        2. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

          Nice talking point but with no data to back up what you ‘think’. You have, on this site, repeated outright lies about Sanders regarding the NRA and AIPAC alleged support for Bernie. I have seen no claims with any data or even reasoned argument to deny the challenges to Hillary.

    3. Sand_Cat March 11, 2016

      President Cruz scares me a LOT more.

      1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

        People think Trump is dangerous. He’s a puppy dog compared to Cruz. I’d support Satan himself before ever allowing Cruz into the WH.

  7. laurele March 11, 2016

    I will not “be there” for Hillary if she wins the nomination. That decision has nothing to do with Bernie; I had no intention of supporting her long before he ever entered the race. The fact is, those paid speeches and campaign donations make her indebted to Wall Street and big corporations and therefore unable to fairly represent the 99 percent. No one owes her or any other candidate their vote. Candidates have to earn votes, and asking someone to vote for them based on fear of an even worse opponent amounts to a lame argument. Unless Hillary releases the transcripts of all those speeches and gives back the money she was paid (or gives it to charity), there is absolutely zero chance she will get my vote in November, and I am far from the only progressive with this view.

    1. yabbed March 11, 2016

      No one expects a bagger to vote for Hillary.

      1. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

        And you are obviously either a Clinton troll or Republican troll. Instead of typing, try reading what so many people are saying and why they are saying them.

        1. Independent1 March 11, 2016

          What kind of morons are you people?? Do you think that the 2016 election is going to go in a way that will not send America down the tubes by having Republicans take over the White House and Congress without every Democrat, Independent, progressive and more voting against them?

          Considering the danger that the GOP poses for America, why are you mindless idiots knitpicking Hillary?? Whatever ties she may have with Wall Street when compared to those inherent in the GOP are like nothing. For you and some of your idiot friends to claim you won’t vote for her is the absolute ultimate of stupidty.

          And if you actually follow through with that and Trump or Cruz get into the White House you’ll rue the day you refused to vote for her if she’s the ultimate opposition to Trump or Cruz for as long as you live – because should the GOP get control of the White House in 2016 America will never be the same again.
          All someone has to do is see the disasters that the GOP has created in red state after red state to see just how big a disaster America would become under GOP governance.

          1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe the problem isn’t with the voters who want to stand by their principles? Maybe the problem is with the politicians that the DNC keeps pushing on us. People are tired of voting for the lesser of two evils and the Democrats need to wake up to that reality before Republicans destroy our country.

          2. Independent1 March 11, 2016

            Now is not the time to be taking up that issue. Now is the time to do whatever it takes to get the GOP out of Congress and to keep them from getting another Republican in the White House.
            You have devolved into pushing for childish petty issues.

            And despite what you may think of Hillary, she is unquestionably the most experienced and qualified candidate to run for the presidency in the past 40 plus years. And I’m not the only one saying that. The editorial board of the Tampa Bay Sentle refused to endrose any one of the GOP candidates saying that not one of them was qualified to be president. And even they said Hillary is the most qualified candidate running for the presidency that they’ve seen in decades!!

            So get off of your childish horse, and recognize just how critical it is for America to keep the GOP from gaining any more inroads into our governments at all levels – wake up and realize just how dangerous the 2016 election is for all of us.

            It is not the time to be talking about being tired about having to vote FOR WHAT YOU THINK are two potentially bad candidates. Because I’ll guarantee you that I and millions of other Americans DON’T AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!

          3. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            “Now is the time to do whatever it takes to get the GOP out of Congress and to keep them from getting another Republican in the White House.”

            We are in agreement, my friend. And the only way to do that is to support Bernie Sanders. You might not think Hillary is all that bad but a helluva lot of other people do, especially the younger voters, who won’t turn out for someone they despise based on the lesser of two evils argument. Calling them childish and telling them to grow up won’t get their vote either.

          4. Independent1 March 11, 2016

            Sorry, Bernie has too many skeletons in his closet that the GOP will explore to completely destroy his candidacy – more than Hillary. The GOP has tried for more than two decades to destroy Bill and Hillary and has not been successful. And I think Trump has more skeletons in his closet that the Dems can make it clear that he’s unfit to be president (quite a large segment of the American population already realizes that – it’s not just the GOP leadership that knows he’s not fit to even be a presidential candidate).

          5. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            You just debunked your own argument in one paragraph. You don’t get to make the argument that Bernie is unelectable because of skeletons in his closet and then turn around and make the argument that Trump is unelectable because of skeletons in his closet. If they run against each other, someone HAS to be elected! lol

            I’ll take my chances with the guy who is fighting for the 99% against the billionaire demagogue.

            A few comments above here, you said “we don’t need supposed Bernie supporters bad mouthing Hillary, just like we don’t need Hillary supporters bad mouthing Bernie” but you certainly don’t seem to have a problem bad mouthing Bernie. It seems like to me that you get upset if anyone says anything bad about Hillary but you don’t want to apply those same rules to yourself.

          6. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

            Nice shift from the issue to one more “why everyone has to just shut up, support Hillary and watch to see if she can beat Trump or Cruz as the second least trusted candidate in both campaigns.
            This is not a comparison between Clinton and Trump or Cruz but a comparison and campaign between Clinton and Sanders. Don’t confuse the issue.
            BTW; Excellent name calling, always a great way to get people to change their minds and positions on essential issues.

          7. Independent1 March 12, 2016

            Where did I say you should “support Hillary’ other than when I said if she’s the nominated opposition to the GOP candidate. What I was pointing out is that we don’t need supposed Bernie supporters bad mouthing Hillary, just like we don’t need Hillary supporters bad mouthing Bernie – or suggesting they won’t vote for Hillary if she ends up being nominated as some of those you were in the middle of blogging with were actually stating. And given the magnitude of the 2016 election anyone who would support someone who says they would refuse to vote for Hillary if she’s nominated is a first class moron – whether you like that word or not – a fact is a fact.

          8. nana4gj March 12, 2016

            The debate during the primary should include the debate who can successfully secure the general election; who can attract more voters if their only choice is Trump or Cruz; and who can get the most done with the current political standoff in the Congress, as President.

            As much as I may agree with Sanders’ platform, or respect him as a person; as valuable and effective he is with his advocacy, his voice, I honestly believe the best way to achieve, or even come close to, much of what he advocates for, is to elect Hillary; return him to the Senate and as many more as we can this election and the next and the next, the House, too, so that he can be a powerful voice, released with no constraints, to work with her, to get as much done as can be had.

            I do not believe we have as much time as is required to get Bernie’s platform implemented with the political standoff in Congress in even 4 years, and we cannot afford to stagnate in paralysis. I do not believe massive numbers of people demanding from Congress will influence them in any positive way. This Majority party in Congress pays no attention to the wants and needs of the people, not even grieving parents from Sandy Hook who ask to meet with them and are shunned. We can sign petition after petition and they are ignored. We most certainly cannot risk the complete unraveling of all that Obama has managed to get done on our collective behalf, on every issue, domestic and foreign.

            The Republican Party “leadership” and establishment of today will fall in line behind any of their candidates, even the despot and demagogue with his vile and offensive mouth and persona, or the Joe McCarthy Cruz, who has insulted them, continues to insult them, whom they followed into the infamous shut down of the government and left them holding the bag for it when it didn’t go down so famously. I thought Kasich would be acceptable, until I went to his sites on line and read of his positions on the issues….rigidly conservative, not the “moderate” he postures, complete with boots on the ground anywhere and everywhere, No on women’s right to choose, and more trickle down economics, et al. But, he would retain the Republican vote, whereas some might switch to Hillary to avoid Trump, for sure, and, perhaps, Cruz.

            So, whomever our nominee is, we will have to get over it and unite, and keep voting every single election, not just the “important” and “inspiring” ones. We have plenty of inspiration to last us for a decade and a half, as long as it may take to flip both houses of Congress, and keep a Dem President, until the GOP has a massive exorcism.

            This morning, they blame the violence in Trump rallies on everyone but him and their own rhetoric and posturing and obstruction for the past 7 1/2 years over ignoring the Jobs/Infrastructure Bill, Minimum Wage, Immigration Reform, and their obsession with taking healthcare away from as many people as they can. They accept no responsibility for having incited anger, hatred, divisiveness for 7 1/2 years, for delegitimizing the person in the office of the Presidency and the office itself. No wonder this is the best they have to offer. Their outrage now is because it is directed at themselves, personally, and because it’s all someone else’s fault: Obama’s, the media, Sanders supporters, a “history of violent uprisings and protests from the Left”, etc. Yes, we have a history of protests, but the violence came from the racists in the South, those against women’s voting rights, and those who did not believe young adults had the right to be against an infamous Viet Nam war.

            That Constitution they so revere, is only respected when it can be used for their own purposes, and a Supreme Court that can skillfully protect that abuse is vital to them, so vital, that they are hell bent on abusing their Constitutional Oath of Office in order to deny this President his own duty and responsibility to fill a vacancy.

            Clear heads must prevail with our strong feelings, one way or another, on our own candidates. We must try to prepare ourselves for either one, which is what I have been trying to do. It does work to do that. I, myself, have gone from one extreme to maybe and now, I am firmly in place that, no matter which one, I will vote for him or her. One “test” after another and Republicans cannot show up for it; they fail, over and over again. Trump’s rally violence is everyone else’s fault. Never mind he is on tape inciting and encouraging it and promising to pay their legal fees. Today, he labels Bernie, a “Communist.”

            They revere as a god the President who refused to fund AIDS research, to impose sanctions on apartheid South Africa, with the lamest rationales; and they bow in adoration at his wife who was running the Administration behind the scenes and they all knew it. Then, when Hillary Clinton was FLOTUS, they were alarmed and accused her of making policy and not knowing her place, because she advocated for causes “left wing, liberal, socialist”.

            We can have our differences in this primary, as Democrats. But we need to take care not inflict such damage on each other and our candidates that one of us wins the dissing war and loses the battle. We need to respectfully disagree, and come together at the end.

          9. A_Real_Einstein March 12, 2016

            We can do better than Hillary. That is the point of a Primary.

          10. Independent1 March 12, 2016

            That’s your opinion, not mine. I agree with the Tampa Bay Sentinel that Hillary is the most qualified candidate to run for president in at least the last 40 years.

          11. Moose Man March 12, 2016

            Yeah! we really need a 1%er in he WH. We have a once in a lifetime to take back our country. This is it. Now or probably never. Save the middle class.#feelthebern

          12. Independent1 March 12, 2016

            It’s not going to help one bit to get a pie-in-the-sky progressive into the White House whose ideas are so progressive that no one in Congress is going to support them. And given the problem we already have with the GOP owning the Senate what do you radicals supporting Bernie think he’s going to do with a GOP controlled Senate?? Do you really think we need to open up his seat to just make one more fight with the GOP in trying to take back the Senate? We need Bernie to stay in the Senate and support a different progressive.

          13. Independent1 March 12, 2016

            And Hillary is not your run-of-the-mill 1%er, she’s been fighting for the rights of the disadvantaged for decades, actually starting back in the 1970s when right out of college she went to South Carolina and started doing everything she could for the disadvantaged in that state, especially the blacks. And we’re not going to win in 2016 without support from the black community:

            See this excerpt from a McClatchy article:

            But Hillary Clinton’s connection to the state dates back to the 1970s, when the recent law-school graduate came to South Carolina to work for the Children’s Defense Fund, founded by Bennettsville-native Marian Wright Edelman.

            The Clintons were popular in South Carolina when they were in the White House, in part because “people in communities of color felt comfortable and felt that there was an ally in the White House,” Cobb-Hunter said.

            The Clintons also are regulars at Renaissance Weekend, a nonpartisan annual gathering in the Lowcountry of notables from diverging backgrounds and opinions on everything from civics, politics or academia, to the arts, science or business.“People were saying, ‘What in the world was going on?’ ” Cobb-Hunter said. “It mattered to the most powerful person in the world that this is happening.”

            Then-President Clinton visited rural, predominantly black communities after a spate of church burnings, which helped build “good will and gave weight to the notion that he cares,” Cobb-Hunter said.Since the 1990s, she and her husband also have repeatedly visited the state.

            Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article62932607.html#storylink=cpy

        2. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

          yabbed has been here a long time … Who the hell are YOU??

          1. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

            Obviously not one of the Clinton clones who seem to overpopulate the site here. Just an interested and concerned Democrat who wants the best candidate to be our candidate for president.

          2. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

            Yeah, and I believe you are a “concerned Democrat” like I believe a hamster will be president.

          3. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            A hamster? Nah. A Cheeto? Possibly.

          4. Cloudherder March 12, 2016

            A Trumpcheeto?

          5. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016


    2. Sand_Cat March 11, 2016

      So Ted Cruz is acceptable to you?

    3. Independent1 March 12, 2016

      You will not support her?? Pretty stupid right?? given that if you don’t along with a bunch of your idiot cohorts, we’re going to most likely get back a GOP-controlled White House and Congress; and like with another moron who claimed something similar, a situation that you will rue the rest of your life.
      Because if the GOP gets control of our government one more time, now that it’s filled with nothing but extreme right-wing radicals, they’ll turn America into a miserable place to live with terrible quality of life, just as they’ve done to virtually every red state they govern.

      And not only has the GOP garnered the distinction of governing over the 10 states voted as the most miserable to live in, and the 10 states voted as having the worst quality of life; all 25 of the states with the lowest per capita spending on personal buying are GOP-governed; as are 21 of the 24 states in America which the highest percentages of their populations living in poverty; and 29 of 31 of the states with the most residents living on the verge of total bankruptcy are also GOP-Governed.

      So if that’s what you want to see the GOP turn all of America into, go ahead, and don’t support Hillary in 2016 if she ends up being the nominee, I’ll guarantee you that you’ll live to regret that idiocy.

      1. laurele March 12, 2016

        Sorry, but I cannot support someone with views and stands so antithetical to my own. Blame her for selling out to Wall Street and Monsanto and taking those huge speaking fees. Blame the DNC leadership for shoving an unpalatable candidate down our throats. You cannot intimidate someone into voting the way you want. I loathe the status quo and will never support it. And considering Hillary’s history of publicly supporting “free trade” agreements, the death penalty, the “welfare reform” bill, and spending two decades trying to move the Democratic party to the right, I sincerely doubt I will ever regret not voting for her.

        1. Independent1 March 13, 2016

          So keep up with your stupidity!! You’re clearly a right-wing troll!! A great deal of what you’re posting is total BS!!
          Over the years, Hillalry has done more for the poor and oppressed, including blacks and women around the world, than anyone else in America. And as the editorial board of the Tampa Bay Sentinel said when they refused to endorse even one of the GOP candidates: Hillary is the most qualified person to run for the presidency in decades!! You are a complete idiot!!!.

        2. Independent1 March 13, 2016

          And has it even occurred to your demented mind, that maybe Hillary was willing to make those speeches for big bucks so she and Bill would have money to spend on projects in America and around the world that help the poor and women especially?? Because that’s exactly what the Clinton foundation has done -poured millions of dollars into programs around the planet that help the disadvantaged!! Especially women and girls in America and in other countries as well!! You are so blinded by the BS in your mind that you can’t see the light of day!!

          1. laurele March 13, 2016

            That money didn’t go to the Clinton Foundation, it went to her personally. As a 501 c3, a NON-profit organization, the Clinton Foundation cannot be used as a vehicle for the Clintons as a source of personal profit. Those speaking fees didn’t go to the charity; they went directly to Hilary’s personal bank account.

            That’s not to say there aren’t problems with the Clinton Foundation. It has taken money from some of the worst dictatorships and women-abusing regimes in the world, such as Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. Furthermore, countries that contributed the most to the Foundation while Hillary was Secretary of State just happened to get the best weapons deals from the US during that time, suggesting a blatant conflict of interest.

            My eyes are open wide when it comes to Hillary. Even if Bernie were not in the picture, I would never vote for her.

          2. Independent1 March 13, 2016

            I’m getting more convinced you’re nothing but a right-wing troll fabricating fantasy scandals as you go along. YOU HAVE NO CLUE what Hillary and Bill did with the monies she got from her speeches. And countless organizations trying to get something on the Clintons have scrutinized the Clinton Foundation and come up with only realizing that it has funneled millions of dollars to worthwhile causes around the world.
            You are a wretched gossip monster. That’s all you are!!

        3. Independent1 March 13, 2016

          And you really need to read the following article: Here’s just an excerpt:

          .”But that night in the theater two years ago, the other six brave women came up on the stage. Anabella De Leon of Guatemala pointed to Hillary Clinton, who was sitting right in the front row, and said, “I met her and my life changed.” And all weekend long, women from all over the world said the same thing:

          ””I’m alive because she came to my country and she talked to our leaders, because I heard her speak, because I read about her.
          “”I’m alive because she went on our local TV and talked about my work, and now they’re afraid to kill me.”
          “I’m alive because she came to my village, put her arm around me, and had a photograph taken together”

          I’m here today because of that, because of those stores. I didn’t know about this. I never knew any of it. And I think everybody should know. This hidden history Hillary has, the story of her parallel agenda, the shadow diplomacy unheralded, uncelebrated — careful, constant work on behalf of women and girls that she has always conducted alongside everything else a First Lady, a Senator, and now Secretary of State is obliged to do.

          And it deserves to be amplified. This willingness to take it, to lead a revolution – and revelation, beginning in Beijing in 1995, when she first raised her voice to say the words you’ve heard many times throughout this conference: “Women’s Rights Are Human Rights

          When Hillary Clinton stood up in Beijing to speak that truth, her hosts were not the only ones who didn’t necessarily want to hear it. Some of her husband’s advisors also were nervous about the speech, fearful of upsetting relations with China. But she faced down the opposition at home and abroad, and her words continue to hearten women around the world and have reverberated down the decades

          1. tue March 24, 2016

            to bad then that she supported the coup in honduras that has let to 100 of death so fat of democratic protesters

          2. Independent1 March 24, 2016

            Under the current regime, Honduras is BY FAR the murder capital of America at over 65 murders/year per its capita. You have no positive evidence that all those murders you’re quoting are the just the result of a ‘failed coup’.

    4. Insinnergy March 14, 2016

      If you’re hunting for absolute purity in politics, and will throw your toys away if you don’t get it, then you deserve President Trump.

  8. Jim Sylvester March 11, 2016

    I will NOT be voting for Hillary. My issue with her is a simple one; she is congenitally deceptive; that is, a born liar. And her flips and flops make her a world class political gymnast. With Hillary, what you get is what you see when she stops ‘evolving.’

    1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

      Oh but you must have forgotten. She’s not a natural politician. She said so herself.

    2. yabbed March 11, 2016

      No GOPer is going to vote for Hillary. They just pretend to be berniebots to do as much damage to the Democrats as possible.

      1. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

        Your consistent use of the diminutive to describe Sanders warrants tagging you as a Clintonista. Many Republicans will reject Trump or Cruz to vote for Sanders. You would have to search for a very long time to find any Republican who is not of the 1% or works on Wall Street who would vote for Hillary. Wake up. Do you want Democrats to win or not?

        1. Sand_Cat March 11, 2016

          Well, if someone “can’t” vote for Clinton, I guess they don’t want the Democrats to win.
          I like Bernie better, too, but I have qualifications:
          1) When it comes to the general election, I’ll vote for ANYONE I have to to prevent any of the neo-Fascists from becoming president. Hillary may be way too conservative for my taste, but she’s a gift from heaven compared to ANY of the GOP.
          2) I’m afraid the GOP lie machine will exploit the “Socialist” bit and other wise destroy Bernie, and if he wins, I fear the Dems won’t really support him, the the GOP will treat him almost as bad as Obama (he is white, after all) if not worse

          1. Insinnergy March 14, 2016

            Well put.

      2. Cloudherder March 11, 2016

        I’ve been noticing this invasion of fake Bernie supporters all of a sudden. Who are these people?

        1. dtgraham March 12, 2016

          We’re real Bernie Sanders people who have had enough of the National Memo total Clinton bias. We just decided to take over this Joe Conason article and finally overwhelm the Clintonistas. We’re here, we’re real, and we’re not going away.

          1. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            It’s stunning to me that some people believe the DNC could override the will of the people by gifting Hillary the nomination via SDs if Bernie wins more pledged delegates and legitimately believe the base would be okay with that and show up to vote for her in the general.

          2. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            They won’t be showing up to vote if that happens. Enough of them may not show up depending on what else happens in this campaign. Enough has already happened.

    3. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

      You won’t be voting for Hillary because you’ve swallowed the line of BS that Rupert Murdoch and the Kochs have been pushing for two decades. Got it.

    4. Insinnergy March 14, 2016

      Wow… from your white tower of moral purity, have you actually looked into the long list of fake scandals?
      Many have been absolutely disproved with evidence that is unquestionable…. and are still being shilled by the GOP media today.

  9. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

    One more paean to Hillary from Conason. Conflation of Nader with Sanders is wrong. Clinton can put her problems with her speeches behind her by releasing the transcripts or videos. If she does not, she subjects herself, if nominated, to the same Wall Street attacks from Trump and his supporters as he demonstrates his independence from Wall Street.
    If Clinton and her supporters want to show that she wants the support of Sanders supporters, show us some sign that she is serious. Dump DWS from DNC leadership. She is the person who designed the internal campaign to prevent Clinton from being challenged early and often in debates in order to make her opponents “disappeared” from the US voters. For better, briefly, for Clinton and for worse, for a while, for Sanders and other candidates, the strategy worked. Now it is clearly a failed strategy for Sanders, the other candidates, the party and the country.
    As the debates and fora began to occur, increasing numbers of people began to rally around Sanders and against both Clinton, the DNC and the Democratic establishment. It looked like the fix had been in and Clinton was just politics as usual. The public wants and wanted change. With each forum and debate it became clear that Sanders is the candidate who is fighting with the people for major change in both the political and economic system in the USA and, based on primary votes from Americans abroad, the world.
    Sanders is no Nader. That is Jill Stein this election.
    Sanders is FDR willing to battle the Republicans and right wing with programs and policies.
    Sanders is Harry S. Truman, willing to say what he means and mean what he says. Sanders is Harry S. Truman who would not allow his daughter to be verbally abused by Republicans.
    Yes, Sanders is the Truman who stepped into office behind FDR, a progressive leader, and fixed in place much of the work begun by Roosevelt.
    Sanders is, in many ways, Lyndon Johnson who consolidated and expanded the social net and racial, social and economic equality in our country following JFK, a Democratic leader who will long be remembered and honored after Reagan, Bush and Clinton are long forgotten.
    Bernie Sanders is no Ralph Nader.
    Bernie Sanders is the Democratic candidate that democrats in America have been asking for and are now demanding as Democratic Candidate for President in 2016.

    1. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

      Bingo and thank you

      1. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

        And bingo right back at you. Saying that the referenced speech is the one which people are demanding she disclose, is at best misrepresentation and an ignorance of the facts and at worst, an intentional effort at deception or outright lie.

        1. iamproteus March 11, 2016

          That reminds me of what the cons said when Obama released his birth certificate: ” Yeah, but show us the REAL certificate!”

          1. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

            Your inability or unwillingness to recognize and reject the misrepresentations of the Clintonista attempts to confuse folks with a PR presentation that happened to be made on wall street and an quarter million dollar insider presentation to an auditorium filled with banksters explaining what Clinton would do as president only demonstrates your need to seek clinical assistance.

    2. yabbed March 11, 2016

      I saw the transcript of one of her Wall St speeches. She was urging Wall St to give opportunities to women and minorities.

      1. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

        Yes. Everyone has seen that transcript. It has been shopped by the Clinton campaign all over the internet. Their goal is to make readers believe that ‘THIS’ is the Goldman Sachs transcript that we want her to disclose. Once again Clinton presents a true thing when what the people are asking for is the truth. This is not one of the Wall Street speeches that Clinton received for over a million dollars. It was a PR presentation that happened to be presented at a WS bank.

    3. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016


      1. dtgraham March 13, 2016

        Those hoops are rooted in progressive-left reality and the refusal is not absolute at all. It’s dependent on the hoops. Nice caps lock hyperbole though.

        1. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

          “Progressive-left reality” isn’t accurate. You are demanding that a candidate you won’t vote for produce evidence to “prove” something or other based on conspiracy theories (not that any amount of proof will ever be enough for you). This is exactly the same, and should be treated with the same contempt as, demanding Obama’s birth certificate.

          1. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            No, not at all. Just change her policies on bank regulations to match Bernie’s for example, and release her Goldman Sachs speech transcripts.

            Matching Bernie’s ideas on campaign finance reform would be nice, as would matching his policies on unfettered free trade.

            Less hawkish on foreign policy and being a much stronger advocate for single payer universal health care would also be nice.

            That’s a start.

          2. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Yes, her policies – nearly identical to Sanders – should be indistinguishable, as nobody is allowed to have a different opinion. Oh and then she should Produce Evidence Based On Your Conspiracy Theory.

          3. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            If you’re referring to the Wall St corruption claims as a conspiracy theory, her differences with Bernie on her Wall St platform is evidence enough of Wall St corruption.

          4. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Uh huh.

  10. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

    “But by repeating his unfounded insinuation that Clinton’s paid speeches
    and Wall Street donors have somehow corrupted her, he is inflicting
    damage that will be very hard to mend.”

    Translation: Shut up Bernie! You’re making Hillary look bad! You and your supporters need to fall in line like good little sheep and bow to the anointed one!

    Here’s an idea… don’t take millions of dollars from the banking industry and expect voters to believe it doesn’t influence you in any way. Hillary inflicted this damage on herself. Don’t blame Bernie for calling her out on it. The only reason she would choose to not release those transcripts is because she knows letting the public see what she said would be even more damaging than hiding them. If there was nothing damning in them, she would have released them months ago.

    1. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

      Straight from the Romney tax return playbook. That worked out well for him?

      1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

        It’s hilarious that the GOP establishment thought dusting off Mittens and sending him out to attack Trump would in any way be an effective strategy.

        1. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

          The GOP is imploding. What else can they do?

          1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Implode some more.

    2. yabbed March 11, 2016

      So we are living in the era of Citizens United and Bernie takes money from his SuperPacs to which the Koch brothers, the NRA and AIPAC keep filling with dirty money.

      1. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

        Now you are doing a ‘Clinton’ i.e. misrepresenting what is being said and done to attack your opponent. Sanders is not taking money from Koch, the NRA or AIPAC. You are lying with invalid and deceptive talking points.

        Koch Brothers may be using his money to support Sanders because they, like Sanders, oppose the massive subsidies to Boeing and other corporations while engaging in the DNC and RNC version of ‘free trade’.

        NRA, funded by gun companies, is not supporting Sanders but his position that individuals suffering a loss from the use of a gun should not be able to bring litigation against the company unless there is a defect in the product that caused the injury or loss. You know like a vehicle or alcohol involved in a drunk driving injury or loss.

        AIPAC? I don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Sanders has stood up to Netanyahu and the illegal settlements, and supported the Iran non-nuclear agreement unlike Hillary who has been sitting on BiBi’s lap for the past decade and criticized the Iran agreement and the settlements.

      2. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

        lol okay

    3. JPHALL March 11, 2016

      Why are the transcripts so important to you and the Republicans? It is like her Emails, you wouldn’t understand why some government agencies now want to classify certain ones. Especially since Snowden and Wikileaks released thousands of State Department Emails and documents years ago.

      1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

        Actually, I don’t personally care if she releases them or not. I already know enough about her ties to Wall Street that it’s not going to make a difference one way or the other. You can’t deny it’s an effective line of attack from Bernie and makes her look tremendously bad for not releasing them.

        1. JPHALL March 11, 2016

          What ties? What do you have that others do not about this issue. What else do you have? Please do not repeat a Repug meme!
          Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          1. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Are you serious right now? Arguing that she is not corrupted by her Wall Street ties is one thing but denying they even exist is delusional. You keeping whining about Repug memes but conveniently ignore the fact that people on the left are criticizing her for the same reasons they criticize Repugs. You’ve not once seen me talking about Benghazi or emails. My problems with her are for being a puppet of Wall Street and a war hawk, which is the exact same thing I criticize Republicans for.

            You’re going to have to come up with something better because dismissing criticism of Hillary as a right wing talking point has failed you.

          2. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Get over yourself. A I have repeatedly stated get real. Do I recognize that it looks bad? Of course. But do I think it is important, not much. Is she advocating repeal of Dodd – Frank? No. Has she promoted anything that can be sell Street? No. What exactly has she said that has led you to believe that she will do anything extra to help Wall street over Main street? Please post.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          3. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Dodd-Frank is all but useless and she refuses to support the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall or breaking up the big banks. Try again.

          4. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            If Dodd – Frank wad useless why are Repugs trying to repeal it? As to Glass-Steagall or breaking up the big banks, who else in the Dem party besides Warren is fighting for that?.10:05 p.m., Friday March 11 | Other comments by @HawaiianTater e
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          5. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            You unintentionally just brought up a very good point. Of course most Dems aren’t fighting for that because they are just as corrupt as Hillary is. As for why Repugs want to repeal Dodd-Frank, look up ODS. If Obama ever came out in favor of breathing air to stay alive, they’d grow gills and live underwater just to spite him.

          6. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            But again that was my point! Other than Warren who is leading the fight to enforce Dodd – Frank.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          7. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Well, um, good job making the point that Democrats are corrupt. Nicely done lol

          8. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Do you know what politics is actually about. Power! Your comment is nonsensical.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          9. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Bernie and his supporters are out to change politics from being about power to being about people.

          10. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            But again let us be realistic. Instead of this talk about not voting, you all should be talking about how you propose to take over the Congress. The Senate is a possibility this year but not if people refuse to vote and support Democrats. It is that simple. All this immature posturing will not help Bernie or this country. You do not like Hillary, so be it. Stop talking about her and instead present a winning proposal.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          11. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Nominate Bernie, take back the Senate. Nominate Hillary, elect Donald Trump. That’s your strategy choices right there.

          12. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Again only your opinion. Even the polls you love to cite belie that statement.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          13. @HawaiianTater March 11, 2016

            Okie dokie. I believe everything that needs to be said here has been said.

          14. JPHALL March 11, 2016

            Good! So in the future act mature in your postings. Others are reading. For the most part you have expressed many good thoughts. Do not let your idealism expose you to ridicule.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          15. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            If you were trolling, I’d give you A+ grades.

          16. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            As a life long Democrat you again are mistaken.

            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          17. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            That comment doesn’t even make sense in reply to what I just said lol

          18. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            You accused me of possible trolling. I don’t think so. Like I have said many times, my interest is in keeping the discussion positive and informative. I live in California so we do not get to vote till June. So I am undecided. But the unrealistic remarks being made by supposed Bernie supporters are becoming a turn off. So quit the negative posts and if you have something on Clinton besides the usual Repug ones, post it otherwise move on. Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          19. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Damn, son. Can you read? I said IF you were trolling. I’m not accusing you of trolling. Sadly, you believe all this nonsense.

          20. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            Tater: He is an old guy who was a teacher for forty years. He has always been right and he has always been teaching, even when what he was teaching was wrong. He, like a lot of us old folk, is afraid of uncertainty of which the world and our nation is filled right now. He wants very much to be respected in what he says and what he believes. He sees us and Sanders fighting for what we all believe is necessary to save out country as the anti-war marchers of the 60s and 70s and the freedom marchers of the same period. He does not and will not recognize the cause/effect relationship between those marchers and the fact that the war ended and the schools were integrated.

          21. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            That’s a valid point and helps explain a lot. Most teachers aren’t used to being questioned on their views and many older people get stuck in their ways. People fear change and Bernie represents change. I can see why that might terrify some people. They’d rather accept the world sucking as is than face the unknown.

            You’re right about one thing. Our country needs to be saved from the war mongers. If we don’t significantly change our interventionist foreign policy, we’re going to end up in WWIII.

          22. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            Democrats do not engage in trolling? right? no, wrong. We are not immune because of our party, our race our gender or any other aspect of who or what we are. Check out ‘trolling’ on Wikipedia. You may find it interesting as a student and teacher of history.

          23. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            While would I troll you or any other Democrat. I have only replied to statements I felt were wrong headed. The main one being attributed to Bernie followers that they will not vote for Clinton as if that is going to make the Democrat party give Bernie the nomination instead.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          24. Carolyn1520 March 13, 2016

            No their lack of support will make some insane republican candidate very happy though.

          25. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            Actually, the polls do seem to say just what Tater says, at least in effect. It is not Tater’s opinion but the facts. You may not like them but right now, Hillary is in deep trouble against Trump and Cruz and they have barely begun to attack her. You seem to think ‘Socialist’ will hurt Bernie but it does not begin to be as much as “nobody trusts you, even in your own party”, ‘you are just another entitled elitist from an establishment millionaire political family’ will hurt Clinton.

          26. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            As I told Tater, the polls are a joke. And unlike you and Karl Rove I accept the polls like any unknown object I find in the street. With suspicion.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          27. David L. Allison March 12, 2016

            Just as Republicans dismiss the facts about climate change and institutional racism.

          28. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            Enjoy your night. I see that you are a “true believer” and facts and reason are meaningless to you.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          29. @HawaiianTater March 12, 2016

            Trump will paint her as a corrupt politician who showed up at his wedding because he paid her off. He’ll pound her into the sand with the Wall Street campaign donations. In an anti-establishment election, that particular attack would be devastating.

          30. Carolyn1520 March 13, 2016

            Just playing devil’s advocate here. Bernie chose the Dem party to join and he has caucused with them.
            He will face the same congress until they are voted out.

          31. Jim Young March 12, 2016

            “…But again that was my point! Other than Warren who is leading the fight to enforce Dodd – Frank…”

            I’ll tell you who, the enlightened and persistent of the 99% that everyone blew off as unorganized Occupy Wall Street protesters.

            WE”RE BACK!

            We want real reform (much as even Sandy Weill, the chief proponent of repealing Glass-Stegall, who now sees it as a serious mistake).

            And the last thing we want prevented before it causes more damaging advantages to those fewer than ever super beneficiaries of extreme differential accumulations of wealth and power is the atrocious TPP to trump the sovereign rights of the governments of the member countries (allowing companies/corporations to trump countries).

          32. JPHALL March 12, 2016

            But that is not a fact. That is your belief. It sounds nice but so is free college. Just saying it means nothing when you lack the power to make it real.
            Subject: Re: Comment on What Sanders — And His Supporters — Must Remember Before November

          33. Jim Young March 14, 2016

            Yeah, that is my belief(s).

            I never ever fell for the corrupt lines that the markets could or would “regulate” themselves. I was so incensed by the nonsense when Joe Lieberman helped over ride Clinton’s Veto on the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act, and the subsequent Securities Litigation Uniform Standards Act (making sure the State Courts couldn’t negate the huge advantages Wall Street got over real citizens at the national or state levels) that I voted against Lieberman as VP and for GW Bush. That worst vote of my life certainly didn’t get us a President like Reagan or his father, you know, the guys in charge when they got 1,000 felony convictions for about 1/1000th of what the latest crowd has gotten away with.

            Back up to the earlier failed experiment (financial excrement enabling) Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982 that led to the Savings and Loan fiasco. At least during the Reagan and GHW Bush administrations they started many of the 30,000 criminal referrals and there were over 1,000 felony convictions. Bill Black participated in many of them and later helped Iceland, similarly convict their bankers that destroyed their economy as we all started the Great Recession from idiotically deregulated banks (and failure to follow even existing laws and regulations).

            Iceland bit the bullet, jailed their criminal bankers and is growing a far healthier and sustainable economy, way ahead of us. See http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/politics_and_society/2015/10/22/iceland_s_national_debt_falling_fast/

            Seems the Reagan and GHW Bush administrations at least did something like Iceland did, then the creeping, greedy, money manipulators, renewed their efforts to warp our system to essentially retry all the failed schemes of the past, with no better results than bigger bubbles from the lack
            of effective government, market, or self regulation. Even Sandy Weill came to realize the lax rules the believers in the ability (and will) of the wise men of the market, meant that a lot of enthusiastic amateurs, speculators, and crooks were able to come in and “sell” all sorts of junk financial products). It is way past time the adults take effective control back from those irresponsible, too self-interested, manipulators that have been the too few beneficiaries of such differential accumulations of wealth and power. In simple terms, get the kids out of the candy store.

  11. emmeeadora March 11, 2016

    I won’t vote for Clinton, I was planning on returning to the Green Party before Bernie decided to run and if Bernie is not the nominee, I’ll vote for Jill Stein. My vote can to counted as a protest vote.

    1. yabbed March 11, 2016

      Go ahead. Vote for Trump. Or write in Ralph Nader.

      1. emmeeadora March 11, 2016

        I won’t support Clinton. Period. Trump will beat her like a rented mule and she’s given him plenty of ammunition to use against her. People are looking for a populist, not a member of the elite ruling class.

        1. Carolyn1520 March 13, 2016

          Are you looking for a republican? Any of them?

        2. Insinnergy March 14, 2016

          Wow… that’s definitely the wisest course of action.
          I bet President Trump will be so much better for the country than Clinton. Right?
          What are you people? 5 years old?

      2. David L. Allison March 11, 2016

        You listen to nothing and understand even less. You are either a Clinton troll or a Republican troll. Your one-liners are doing nothing for Hillary or the Democratic party. If that is your intent, you are failing.

    2. Linda Bullock March 11, 2016

      What? Are you 12?! YOU still think this election is about Hillary vs Bernie, don’t you?! Dude, it is a he!! of a lot bigger than that. Grow up!

      1. Althea March 12, 2016

        I’m a Hillary supporter who happens to love Bernie Sanders from long before most of his supporters even knew he existed. I will not criticize Sanders but I WILL say that his supporters are some of the most self-righteous and obnoxious people I’ve seen

        1. dtgraham March 13, 2016

          How dare we say that Hillary isn’t progressive-left enough for us. How obnoxious of us I tell you.

      2. laurele March 12, 2016

        If “growing up” means voting for someone so corrupt and antithetical to one’s principles, then I would rather walk on hot coals than ever do it. I will NEVER vote for her.

        1. Linda Bullock March 13, 2016

          “Laurele”…then you are either a Republican Troll or STUPID. Which is it?

        2. Insinnergy March 14, 2016

          What an idiot.
          You feel like President Trump is a good alternative then?
          Oh so very much more pure than someone corrupt… right?

          I’ve often said Americans get the politicians they deserve.
          I guess were in for another round of that.

          If anyone in this forum is seeking purity I’d suggest not looking inside politics for it.

          1. laurele March 14, 2016

            I’m not seeking “purity”; I’m seeking someone who represents me. Hillary is not it.

  12. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

    Conason is on the Clinton payroll and thinks we are idiots. Joe can f*ck off.

    1. dtgraham March 11, 2016

      He’s seriously getting under my skin with this too.

      1. A_Real_Einstein March 11, 2016

        This primary is fixed to the point that the DNC,the entire demo establishment and of course the Corp media are literally jumping up and down on the scale for Hillary. When even Stephanie Miller is stumping for Shillary you know the whole thing stinks.

    2. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

      How dare he talk about what happens when Sanders loses, which he is almost certain to do?

      1. laurele March 12, 2016

        No, he isn’t. The delegate difference between them is just 200, and most of the Bernie-friendly states have yet to vote.

        1. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

          It’s 700, Hillary wins if she gets only 1100 more delegates, and there are no large states polling Sanders (every state with 100+ delegates shows Clinton ahead by double digits).

        2. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

          Some people really struggle with the concept that SDs can change their minds at any point.

  13. Otto T. Goat March 11, 2016

    Obey Hillary, Sanders supporters.

    1. dtgraham March 12, 2016

      Never you Hillary goat….never I say.

    2. laurele March 12, 2016

      She’ll have to kill me and turn me into a zombie first.

  14. Mr Corrections March 12, 2016

    I love how the comments so far perfectly illustrate what the author was talking about.

    1. dtgraham March 13, 2016

      I love how your comment so far perfectly illustrates how far out of reality you are.

      1. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

        You noticed that too? lol

        1. dtgraham March 13, 2016

          Quite a while ago.

          1. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            It’s possible that Hillary still wins but anyone who thinks the race is over has no idea what they’re talking about. These people think SDs have this locked up for Hillary while conveniently ignoring the facts that they can change their minds at any time and there would be chaos if the DNC tried to rig it for Hillary should she lose the pledged delegates.

          2. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            It looks like the DNC are doing everything they can to rig this for her, including the liberal portion of the media (NM and others). Those Super Delegates have to be factored out unless they want a disaster in November and a near riot at the DNC convention. That will happen if the SD’s by themselves put Hillary over the top.

          3. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            A near riot is an understatement. Hillary, even if she wins the pledged delegate count, is going to have a difficult time getting Bernie supporters to back her in November. If she loses the pledged delegate count but get nominated anyways via SDs, it would be an unmitigated disaster. The fact that Hillary supporters thinks she can win that way and the voters who selected Bernie would be okay with that and vote for her anyways just shows how delusional these people really are. That’s the factor they don’t consider when they brag about her huge lead because of SDs. It’s like, WTF do you think is gonna happen if that’s how she wins? Hint: it won’t be good.

          4. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            Exactly Tater. How do you brag, or talk glowingly, about what super delegates are doing for your candidate? Yet they are. Are they stupid?

          5. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            TBF, if they weren’t stupid, they wouldn’t be voting for Hillary in the first place lol 😉

            Yeah, if you legitimately prefer one candidate over the other, that’s one thing. But to be okay with winning by cheating the system and legitimately thinking people would be okay with that is beyond stupid.

          6. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Good news! She’s already winning the pledged delegate count by a large margin, and – as she is substantially more popular than Sanders with the Democratic base – is unlikely to lose.

          7. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

          8. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            OK sorry that you can’t count. The majority of the Democratic base prefers Clinton, 51 to 39% – it’s incredibly unlikely that she’ll lose on normal delegates. Not that it will ever actually matter, as the normal delegate voting will never run to the end – Sanders will withdraw well before then.

          9. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            Funny thing about that whole primary map situation… Hillary built her lead on huge wins in conservative states. We’ll see where things stand after the liberal states get to vote. Whoever wins, wins.

          10. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            She leads in every large (100+ delegates) state by double digits, and in every state that has a substantial minority population (usually the same thing). That’s the primary map. You seem to not want to think about this.

            She is more than halfway to winning; she gets 1100 more delegates, and the nomination is over.

          11. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            She had a double digit lead in Michigan too and we see how that worked out.

            And I’m not going to explain SDs to you again because you are clearly too stupid to comprehend it.

          12. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Ah yes, that mighty 1% victory that netted Sanders almost no delegates. Why, with just a hundred more victories like that, he might win!

            I’m sorry that you feel the need to resort to insults; it’s a sign that you have no cogent arguments, of course. The super delegates work just as I have described, no matter how mad you get on the internet.

          13. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            You think SDs are set in stone and can’t change their minds. You’ve had it explained to you and yet you still deny reality. Calling you stupid is not an insult. It’s an accurate representation of the situation.

          14. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            You certainly have explained that, over and over again, despite me never once claiming otherwise. Weird! The delusion you are under is that they don’t count until the end of the nomination process; this is wildly incorrect. If she hits the magic number of delegates, she wins – regardless of whether those delegates are super or not.

          15. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            The person who wins the most pledged delegates will be the nominee. It’s that simple.

          16. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Again, you seem to think that super delegates don’t count in that equation. They do. No amount of feeble name-calling will change that.

          17. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            Again, you seem to think that the DNC would commit political suicide by defying the will of the people. They won’t. No amount of Hillary delusion will change that.

          18. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            What does that have to do with anything I wrote? The super delegates will switch their votes for the more popular candidate if it is a close contest. For example, the Obama nomination. This is not a close contest – Sanders has way less delegates, and is less popular than Clinton with the base.

            Once Clinton reaches the number of delegates required, she wins. Can you understand this incredibly simple rule?

          19. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            I explain it to you. You deny reality. It’s a hilarious circle of stupid. Here’s a helpful illustration:

          20. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            You’ve already admitted on another NM story that you don’t care whether Hillary is progressive or not, and you’re not part of the progressive-left movement. You’re barely a Democrat, and you’ve acquiesced to that.

            You’re not exactly the best spokesman for Hillary here.

          21. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            The argument can be made that Hillary wouldn’t be as bad as someone from the GOP but she sure as hell isn’t liberal nor progressive. She’s a center-right corporatist with hawkish foreign policies. That’s infinitely better than a RWNJ like Cruz or Rubio but it’s still not exactly a good option. It’s important to remember in a lesser of two evils situation that the lesser evil is still, in fact, evil.

          22. dtgraham March 13, 2016


          23. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            I’ve admitted no such thing. Stop lying.

          24. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            In response to someone else’s comment regarding Hillary’s lack of progressive-left thinking, your reply was, “so what.”

            When I quizzed you on that reply and suggested that you should be arguing that Hillary is indeed very progressive, your reply to me was, “I don’t see why.”

          25. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            So what?

          26. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            Same ambivalence you gave me before. Hillary supporters like you are part of what Bernie supporters are talking about.

            What kind of Democratic candidate is she if she attracts supporters like you? I’m not talking about any smack you may be giving to Bernie at rallies. That’s just politics. I’m talking about your core beliefs.

          27. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            Hillary’s core beliefs: know your role, shut your mouth and be happy that I don’t want to ban abortion and gay marriage.

          28. laurele March 13, 2016

            Agreed though I too know my role–be as loud mouthed a dissident as possible, oppose her corporatism at every turn, and make sure the message goes viral online. Take that, Hill!

          29. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            Hear, hear!

          30. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Yes, you sure are telling me what my core beliefs are. Most people don’t do that, but thanks for additionally illustrating how accurate the author of this article was.

          31. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            Another nonsense response.

          32. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Of course it’s nonsense, to you – you are self-righteous to an astonishing (and highly unjustified) degree, and incapable of understanding that other people aren’t actually compelled to agree with you.

          33. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            When a poster says that Hillary is not progressive at all (in their opinion) and you don’t disagree, you reveal yourself for what you are.

            That’s OK in the grand scheme of things, but don’t expect that Bernie’s people should be compelled to understand and agree with you just because the candidate that you’re supporting is also a Democrat.

          34. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Yes, I have to immediately do what you say or else you might declare I’m not a Real Progressive. That is how it works, probably.

          35. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            Your progressivism depends entirely on your words.

          36. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            And yet here you are, gatekeeping.

          37. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            You can find a turd and call it a candy bar but it doesn’t make it not a turd. It just means you struggle with basic definitions.

          38. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Yes, it is me that is struggling here – struggling to contain my laughter.

          39. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            IKR? The candy turd line was pretty good. Credit where credit is due.

          40. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            The funniest part was when you lost your temper because of numbers. So basically every second post.

          41. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            There is no anger here. Only amusement at your lack of basic understanding as to how all of this works.

          42. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Yes, it’s ME that has the problem understanding how super delegates work, although unlike you I have said nothing inaccurate.

          43. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            Your delusions make you happy and I’m happy that you’re happy.

          44. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Again, I’m sorry you get mad at numbers.

          45. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            Again, I’m sorry you lack basic cognitive function.

          46. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Yes, you have done nothing but call me stupid since it became clear that you were wrong. An interesting, although startlingly ineffective, tactic that is not actually a substitute for facts.

          47. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            In the world of delusion, the insanity is factual and damned proud of it.

          48. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            See previous post

          49. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            See previous post.

          50. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            See previous two posts.

          51. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            See previous two posts.

          52. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            See previous three posts. Sorry that you’re both humourless and innumerate.

          53. @HawaiianTater March 14, 2016

            See previous three posts. Sorry that you’re both humourless and innumerate.

          54. Mr Corrections March 14, 2016

            See previous four posts.

          55. @HawaiianTater March 14, 2016

            See previous four posts.

          56. Mr Corrections March 14, 2016

            It’s astonishing that you think you’re achieving anything other than illustrating just how demented and mad about the fact that Sanders has outright lost you are, as discussed in my previous five posts.

          57. @HawaiianTater March 14, 2016

            I fart in your general direction.

          58. Mr Corrections March 14, 2016

            See previous six posts.

          59. @HawaiianTater March 14, 2016

            See previous stink in the air.

          60. Mr Corrections March 14, 2016

            See previous seven posts.

          61. @HawaiianTater March 14, 2016

            Polly want a cracker?

          62. Mr Corrections March 14, 2016

            See previous eight posts.

          63. @HawaiianTater March 14, 2016

            Thanks, Buck.

          64. Mr Corrections March 14, 2016

            See previous nine posts

          65. Mr Corrections March 14, 2016

            See previous ten posts, underline part where I mentioned “humourless”.

          66. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016

            The Count is hilarious. You should lighten up.

          67. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            See previous eleven posts.

          68. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016

            Just like Marco Roboto. Stuck on repeat.

          69. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            See previous twelve posts.

          70. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016

            Everybody limbo!

          71. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            See previous thirteen posts.

          72. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016


          73. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            See previous fourteen posts.

          74. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016

            Who ties your shoes for you every day?

          75. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            See previous fifteen posts.

          76. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016

            How do you manage to brush your teeth without putting an eye out?

          77. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            See previous sixteen posts.

          78. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016

            Were you born this stupid or have you always been this way?

          79. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            See previous seventeen posts.

          80. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016

            Idiot says: see previous eighteen posts.

          81. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            It is astonishing that you are this stupid. Nevertheless, in my eighteen previous posts you will find the answer you seek.

          82. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016

            Only a complete drooling moron would reply to this comment.

          83. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            It’s not surprising that you think that your elementary school tactics would work; you aren’t the sharpest tool in the shed. I invite you to read my nineteen previous posts, and also look at the primary results, which are exactly as I predicted. Sanders is done.

          84. @HawaiianTater March 15, 2016

            At least you admit you’re a complete drooling moron. Admitting you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery.

          85. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            See previous twenty posts. Also note that even the dumbest Republican troll gave up after four of these; you’re special.

          86. dtgraham March 14, 2016

            Mr Gameplayer has no adult reasoning to back himself up, but he loves to change the narrative and the point of what’s being discussed. He loves his word games.

          87. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            No, not gatekeeping…just observing. I should have said that the perception of your progressivism depends entirely on your words. You don’t even do the perception thing right.

          88. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Yes, gatekeeping. It’s a real problem with Sanders supporters, as the article indicated – I want to thank you for demonstrating this particular widespread failing.

          89. dtgraham March 14, 2016

            What’s your point? You can say anything and it doesn’t matter? I can say that all of the rich must be taxed back to the stone age and yet still be considered a conservative? I can say that I don’t care whether the politician I plan on voting for is progressive or not, and yet still be considered progressive?

          90. Mr Corrections March 14, 2016

            You still think you are qualified to tell me what my opinions are. Weird.

          91. dtgraham March 14, 2016

            Your words tell me what your opinions are you idiot. That’s what they’re for.

          92. Mr Corrections March 14, 2016

            The strawman arguments you assemble in your brain tell you what “my” opinions are.

          93. dtgraham March 16, 2016

            No, the strawman arguments you assemble on your keyboard. The ones assembled by your less than liberal/progressive brain.

          94. Mr Corrections March 16, 2016

            Uh huh. Weirdly, it turns out that everything I said was 100% accurate.

          95. dtgraham March 16, 2016

            That would be weird if it were true. Agreed. Unfortunately for you, it’s not. Systematic, factual, and meticulous are not exactly the things that I would use to describe your version of accuracy, although they usually are.

          96. Mr Corrections March 16, 2016

            OK, sorry that you can’t seem to point out a single instance of any of those things. I just checked, and every single thing I said about Sanders’ likely results turned out to be entirely accurate.

          97. shaun h March 20, 2016

            You still think you’re qualified to cast my ballot for me. Weird.

          98. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

            Yes that’s exactly what I just said, in your imagination.

          99. shaun h March 20, 2016

            Pot kettle

          100. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

            Sorry that you’re functionally illiterate! Not my fault though!

          101. mkevinf March 15, 2016


          102. dtgraham March 16, 2016

            Having problems understanding English or just spelling the word what?

          103. @HawaiianTater March 13, 2016

            Hillary is only progressive in the sense that she progresses the interests of Wall Street and the military industrial complex.

          104. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            Good one.

          105. shaun h March 20, 2016

            His core belief. Win at any cost.

          106. shaun h March 20, 2016

            That makes him a perfect sHillary spokesperson.

          107. laurele March 13, 2016

            Please cite your source for this claim.

          108. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016


            Note that there has never been a time when Sanders polled better than Clinton.

          109. laurele March 13, 2016

            Not true, most notably in New Hampshire before their primary. Bernie also polls better against Trump and Cruz than Hillary does. Of course, we all know just how accurate the pre-primary Michigan polls were, including the one by Real Clear Politics.

          110. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            What are you talking about? There’s never been a time when Sanders had a poll average within five percent of Clinton.

          111. laurele March 14, 2016

            He has exactly that in many states.

          112. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            And those states barely matter. Let me clear: he can win up to three states (all low diversity and with the help of Republican ratfucking) in this next primary and it won’t matter; Hillary is going to increase her lead yet again.

          113. shaun h March 20, 2016

            Super delegates don’t vote until the convention. In July.

          114. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

            No delegate votes until the convention. In July.

            I hope that helps!

          115. laurele March 13, 2016

            She’s ahead by 200 delegates–not a large margin at this relatively early stage, especially with many Bernie-friendly states yet to vote.

          116. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            700 delegates. Which Bernie-friendly states award more than 100 delegates?

          117. laurele March 13, 2016

            Just counting pledged delegates and leaving out superdelegates and/or those in states that have not yet voted, the total delegate count is 551 for Bernie, 766 for Hillary.

          118. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Why leave out the super delegates? If Clinton reaches the magic number, something she’s more than halfway to doing, she instantly wins the nomination. The super delegates will not change their pledges unless Sanders gets more normal delegates than Clinton, which can’t actually happen.

            This nomination was over on the 1st; only Sanders doesn’t accept that.

          119. laurele March 14, 2016

            Because counting the super delegates for Hillary is misleading and misrepresents what is actually a very close race. The nomination was not and is not over until everyone has voted. Sanders has every chance in the world to get more pledged delegates than Clinton, as the next states to vote are more friendly to him. The super delegates will go with whoever wins, just like they went for Obama in 2008. Prematurely counting them for Clinton is a disingenuous, dirty trick meant to convince Sanders voters erroneously that he has no chance of winning. The truth is, it can happen, and it will.

          120. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            Except it isn’t misleading. She needs to reach the 2383 delegate target, and it doesn’t matter if she makes that total with supers or regular delegates.

          121. shaun h March 20, 2016

            Because they don’t count until they are cast at the convention.
            Just like we don’t award elections based on poll results.

          122. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

            Read what I wrote again, please.

          123. shaun h March 20, 2016

            She took half the states in order to build a 300 delegate lead, Sanders can surely do just as well in the second half and make up those 300 delgates and then some.

          124. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

            Yes, if he just becomes 25% more popular than he’s ever been and wins every state, he could be the victor.

      2. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

        What did I say that is out of touch with reality?

        1. dtgraham March 13, 2016

          The author tried to compare Bernie to Ralph Nader. He was a third party candidate spoiler. Bernie is not that at all.

          The author also called Michael Moore an outspoken Sanders backer. The last Michael Moore interview on this topic that I’m aware of was given on Chris Hayes, where Michael was adamant that he couldn’t choose between Hillary and Bernie. He said that he liked them both equally. The author is a liar.

          In other words, the comments here don’t perfectly illustrate what the author was talking about at all.

          1. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            What do either of those two things have to do with the comments here? Do you understand what it is I wrote?

          2. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            That’s what the author was talking about and the comments here don’t illustrate that at all. You said that the comments here perfectly illustrate what the author was talking about. That’s not true at all.

          3. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            Yes, the author said something about Michael Moore that might not be true, which means that his description of way the hysterically overwrought Bernie supporters comment can’t be accurate, even thought here they are doing exactly what he said.

          4. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            Re-read your post again. Are you drunk? What????

            You want me to respond to that?

          5. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            How hard is this? I said he described the comments accurately. You said he got some minor detail wrong; I did not say anything about the article being a perfect exemplar of correctness.

          6. dtgraham March 13, 2016

            None of the comments here deal with Bernie being another Ralph Nader or Michael Moore being an outspoken Sanders backer.

          7. Mr Corrections March 13, 2016

            OK, have fun shouting at strawmen or whatever the hell you’re doing.

          8. mkevinf March 15, 2016
          9. shaun h March 20, 2016

            You strengthen his point when you lend credence to the idea that Politicians are “entitled” to your vote.

    2. shaun h March 20, 2016

      What it perfectly illustrates is we weren’t kidding when we told you we’d never support Hillary.

      You chose to disregard and now here we are, halfway done and no chance for reconciliation.

      She’s going to need to pull in Republicans and move the party even more to the right, if she’s the nominee, in order to win.

      I’m sure you’d be perfectly fine with that.

      1. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

        OK sorry that you’re mad that the majority of the Democratic base doesn’t agree with you; I don’t know how you can live with yourself and your decision to support actual an fascist like Trump, though.

      2. MikeyArmstrong March 21, 2016

        Young, white males, Bernie’s strongest demographic, don’t turn out to vote and this is the reason the right is able to push democrats to the right. So, you see, Hillary would push the party further left if she could count on your vote.

  15. Debbie Street March 12, 2016

    George Bush didn’t “usurp” Gore. Flori-DUH couldn’t count properly, and Jeb! was Governor. Hmmmmm… Gore won the popular vote but SCOTUS awarded the Presidency to Bush. Hmmmmm…

  16. johndenton46 March 12, 2016

    I feel fear

    1. Insinnergy March 14, 2016

      Take your hands out of your pants, then.

  17. Carolyn1520 March 13, 2016

    Thank you for writing this article.
    I fear the young and naive who heard the word revolution and have never participated in one, thought is sounded like fun. They may participate in the rallies where they can take selfies and party, all the while texting but it’s anyone’s guess if they will show up to vote. I don’t think they can really be counted on for either Bernie or Hillary.
    Which makes it imperative that those who do know how important this election is and do know what is at stake, put aside their disappoint if their choice doesn’t win the primary and ate for the other candidate. Listen to Bernie. Be a grownup.

    1. shaun h March 20, 2016

      Sorry, you only get one vote, just like the rest of us. I understand as a ballot box stuffing shillbot, that’s difficult for you to accept.

      1. Carolyn1520 March 20, 2016

        Said one of the morons who misses the point.

  18. Wrily March 14, 2016

    What the DNC must remember before November is that it up to the people to choose their candidate, not a bunch of Super Delegates or coin flips.

    1. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

      Good news! Super delegates will always vote for the most popular candidate (Clinton) with the most state delegates (Clinton).

      Additionally, none of the seven coin tosses won by the Clinton campaign in Iowa, or the six coin tosses won by the Sanders campaign in Iowa, were for state delegates. They resolved ties for county delegate seatings, and had no effect on the overall voting. Please stop believing nonsense.

      1. Wrily March 15, 2016

        Clearly, that is not what happened in New Hampshire. Please stop spreading falsehoods.

        1. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

          I have no idea what you think you’re talking about, but it has nothing to do with my post.

          1. Wrily March 15, 2016

            Bad new! You can’t have it both ways. If, as you claim, you have no idea what I’m talking about then you cannot know that it has nothing to do with your post.

            For the record, your assertion the Super Delegates will always vote for most popular candidate with the most state delegates is proven untrue in the results from New Hampshire.

          2. Mr Corrections March 15, 2016

            The most popular candidate is Clinton (51-39%, with 62% of all ballots being cast so far being for Clinton). She has hundreds more delegates than Sanders. How was what I said in any way wrong?

  19. curveball7 March 15, 2016

    The idea then is that one should just give up on truth and back whoever the DNC or RNC tell you you should vote for? Somewhere along the line I think your logic was a very SERIOUS flaw, as well as your priorities. Parties should cater to (represent) you or me a voter. When voters pledge blind allegiance to a party over truth or any other vital principal then you’ve essentially told yourself ‘I’m a political slave to these people, but it’s ok because my slavery is better than the political slavery of those other people to the RNC’. People with backbones don’t fall for such shallow reasoning.

    1. Mr Corrections March 16, 2016

      People with backbones also don’t need overwrought hyperbole to make their case.

      1. curveball7 March 18, 2016

        People with backbones don’t sugarcoat bullshit. Nor rely upon deflection for their lack of an intellectually honest response.

        1. Mr Corrections March 18, 2016

          What bullshit am I sugar coating?

          1. curveball7 March 19, 2016

            My post took issue with the underlying assumption of this article, which is that particular parties winning electoral contests are the be all and end alls of politics. My assertion is that winning and losing shouldn’t come at the cost of truth. They can coexist. Ralph Nader isn’t some singular blame for Gore losing.. although hundreds of articles repeat such bullshit to the public and the public buys it. Sanders doing a good job won’t be the reason for Hillary loses should she lose either. People feel intuitively what resonates to them or doesn’t.. And people should be voting for what’s most in their interest to vote for. Guilt tactics and shaming people for not toeing party lines is putting the cart before the horse. Politicians should be representing their electorate, the electorate shouldn’t have to cater to a politician simply because of party membership. If a person isn’t liked by an individual, so be it. The role of the media should be to continually present us with truth, with facts, and more gritty truth and alternative perspectives and again more truth. The public can make up their own minds about whats best for them. Yes there are consequences to voting out of lock with party lines. Lets explore that. Go into it. Is the person willing to live with that? OK. There’s zero need to lie to the public because you fear what they might do. Like it or not, democracy (even representative democracy) is all about relinquishing a little of that control that makes people want to lie to others because they don’t trust others having the freedom to make up their own mind (OMG, this person over there might not think the same as I do or vote the same way I do! We’re doomed!). Democracy is scary. We get it. Still not a reason to deceive.

          2. Mr Corrections March 19, 2016

            Your post was overwrought hyperbole, bordering on hysterics. In particular, note that your use of the word “slavery” is incredibly offensive.

          3. curveball7 March 19, 2016

            I’d sum that up to your lack of reading comprehension.

          4. Mr Corrections March 19, 2016

            What part of “slavery” do you imagine I didn’t comprehend?

          5. curveball7 March 19, 2016

            The part where its prefaced by “political”. Do you understand what being the ‘property of another’ means? Do you know what “political” means? Then put the two together and deduce meaning. Its not rocket science, and its not hyperbole. Its two simple words with precise meanings.

          6. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

            Yes, I do understand that you think you can excuse this. You can’t.

          7. shaun h March 20, 2016

            You don’t own the word slave.

          8. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

            And you don’t get to abuse it just because you’re having a tantrum that your unpopular candidate lost.

          9. curveball7 March 20, 2016

            If you are a Slav (as in slavic) then you might have a case about abusing a term whose meaning you cant seem to comprehend. If youre not then please take several seats. And who’s having a tantrum? Im neither a Sanders nor Clinton fan. Neither republican nor democrat. This was exactly my point, people like you get attached to your establishment candidate and become blind cheerleaders to their actions and perspectives regardless of what arbitrary decisions they might want to make for people whose interest diverge from yours. Regardless of who wins i advocate for an environmentalist and local economy friendly agenda. That has nothing to do with any one politician. Perhaps this way of thinking is too much for you to comprehend precisely because you dont know what its like to not act out of blind political alliance.. As if politics were like sports and you pick a team or favorite player and then shut off your brain for the rest of your life and just passively cheerlead from the sidelines..

          10. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

            Hahaha wow.

          11. curveball7 March 20, 2016

            Oh god this is embarrasing, are you 12 years old or just a mental midget? I suddenly feel i need to sit you on my lap and educate you about both politics and global history.

          12. Mr Corrections March 20, 2016

            Yes, I get that you have no sense of shame and that everything you write is ridiculously pompous hyperbole. I already said that.

  20. sharon March 17, 2016

    From leftwingnation.org :So no it’s not just your vote after all. When we vote, we are voting for our families, our friends, our neighbors, as well as millions of other people we will never meet and may not even be born yet.

    We are a voice for those not old enough to yet cast their vote.

    We are a vote for generations who are not yet born.

    We are a vote for those who can’t vote because they lack the resources and time to get the documents they need to vote.

    We are a vote for the “strangers in our land,” those who do the most grueling of jobs, the very people who help make our lives possible in so many ways.

    We are a vote for those living in constant fear of deportation and the breaking up of their families.

    We are a vote for those who have lost their right to vote because of mistakes they made in their lives, many of which are victims of unjust drug laws.

    We are a vote for billions more because as the most powerful and wealthiest nation to ever exist, the decisions we make will impacts the lives of the rest of humanity, especially the poorest of the poor.

    So when you don’t vote because things didn’t go the way you wanted them to, you are not just giving up your voice, you are silencing theirs. But worst of all you are amplifying the voices of the very people who are opposed to everything we stand for. They are voting for people who are the antithesis of all that we stand for and are quite often the ones actively trying to silence the already most marginalized members of our society.

    You are, to put it bluntly, afflicting the afflicted and comforting the comfortable through your absence when your presence matters the most. It is always said that “this is the most important election of our lives!” You know what? It’s always true. Because no matter what we are voting for, we are electing people who will have a say not just over the next two/four/or six years of our lives, but over the direction of our country, and in some ways the direction of our world, for generations to come.

    It is always the most important election of our lives.

    Just because YOU might be able to survive four years of a President Trump or Cruz does not mean everyone can. Real lives are at stake at home and abroad. Vote like it’s a matter of life or death, because as a matter of fact it is.

    1. shaun h March 20, 2016

      Better make the right choice then, eh?

    2. palsifar March 21, 2016

      I can’t survive another four more years like the last seven … or ten … or thirty-five … and yet that’s unfortunately exactly what Hillary is proposing …

    3. vet March 28, 2016

      Hm. It’s a dilemma, that’s for sure. Good argument.

  21. shaun h March 20, 2016

    The only people responsible for the Bush administration were Bush, Bush voters and SCOTUS. The End.

  22. bcarreiro March 20, 2016

    Democracy Spring.-)

  23. palsifar March 21, 2016

    Over the last twenty years, the parties have coalesced into the following:

    a) The Republicans look out for the interests of the top one percent;
    b) The Democrats look out for the interests of the top five percent and (arguably) the bottom ten percent …

    Neither party is interested in looking out for the interests of everybody else, which is why the supposedly progressive Obama administration has seen 95% of all new wealth created during its term accrue to the top 5% (aka the new Democratic base) … it’s telling that while Sanders and Trump spoke this weekend before crowds of thousands, Hillary attended a series of fundraisers …

    What Conason doesn’t appreciate is that we working class progressives have spent the ;last 25 years looking to protect everyone else’s interests while the Democratic Party has been busy selling our prosperity down the river … the first story about Clinton this campaign cycle hiring lobbyists for the private prison industry as campaign consultants was unfortunately all too revealing …

    So here’s what Hillary Clinton needs to appreciate and fast … people in positions like myself absolutely cannot handle another four years of more of the same … the odds of Trump actually following through and accomplishing anything of value for people like myself are admittedly long … but they are not non-existent …

    So here’s my message to Clinton and the Democratic establishment … if Hillary doesn’t convince me that she is actually committed to some substantial, meaningful progressive reform … no “grand bargains” on social security, substantial prison sentencing reform, student loan debt forgiveness, the delisting of marijuana as a Schedule I drug, immigration reform with a path to legalization, a check on outsourcing, more Wall Street taxation and oversight and the end of TPP … I’ll be casting my vote for Trump …

    In this case, the Devil I don’t know might indeed be preferable to the Devil I’ve unfortunately come to know all too well …

    1. MikeyArmstrong March 21, 2016

      A conservative Supreme Court is going to make all your progressive dreams come true, right?

  24. MikeyArmstrong March 21, 2016

    Bernie voters should remember that without the Supreme Court tilting left, they’re dreams of a progressive utopia are going to be on hold for at least fifteen or twenty years.

  25. For 35+ years, the Left Wing of the Democratic Party has listened to snotty, condescending prattle like this, and we’re fed up.

    America has been going to Hell, thanks to the Rich Man’s GOP, & Democratic “Pragmatics” who have no goals & no leadership ability. Much like Mr Conason, who is so busy shunning goals, lofty or otherwise, that neither they nor he seems to be able to pry their collective nose out of the gutter, & look up, for just once.

    Al Gore spoke of Leadership being the art of planning–5, 10, 25, 50, 100 years into the future.

    What is Hillary’s great vision? Cautious Incrementalism ?


    Give me a reason to care, or don’t expect me to care.

    1. MikeyArmstrong March 21, 2016

      If we don’t tilt the court to the left we’ll get even worse decisions than Citizens United and Shelby vs Holder. If we vote blue no matter what, we have a chance to put the court out of the right’s reach for at least thirty years and diminish their power. Having a 5-4 liberal majority court will be a huge step in reversing all the damage caused by the Reagan revolution. Do you care now?

      1. What kind of political Naif would believe that donations from Wall Street, amounting to hundreds of thousands of dollars were somehow problematic?

        Or that it would irretrievably stain the reputation of a candidate?

        1. MikeyArmstrong March 21, 2016

          Eat a sack of rat poop.

          1. “Eat a sack of rat poop.”–How sweet !

            Did you think that one up aaall by your lonesome, Little Woogums?

  26. johndenton46 March 26, 2016

    wtf, ignore whatev

  27. sharon illenye May 16, 2016

    it amazes me that people don’t listen. He said and we are paying Bernie our contributions for Bernie to go to the 50 states. When we are through we will make a new party that is inclusive and honest. Taking back our democracy.


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