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Saturday, October 22, 2016

Hey, have you heard about this thing called “the fiscal cliff”? Actually, the better question is: Have you heard about anything except the fiscal cliff? Nine months ago, the term had not even entered the media lexicon. And now it’s suddenly everywhere.

It was Fed Chairman and Neologist-in-Chief Ben Bernanke who, while testifying in front of Congress back in February, first used the term to describe the combined effect of the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, the payroll tax cuts and unemployment benefits, along with the beginning of across-the-board spending cuts (the so-called “sequestration”) that were part of the debt ceiling deal (technically the Budget Control Act) of 2011.

Whether or not we go over the fiscal cliff, around the fiscal curve, or down the fiscal slope remains to be seen — and no doubt heard about nonstop every day through the end of the year — but one thing is already certain: Our political debate has already gone over the cliff. In fact, it was sequestered long ago, when the acceptable parameters of this so-called debate were initially set.

Just look at the current state of the negotiations. President Obama’s proposal — delivered to John Boehner and Eric Cantor by Obama’s lead negotiator Tim Geithner — calls for $1.6 trillion in tax revenue over the next 10 years, the majority of which comes from letting the Bush tax cuts expire for those making more than $250,000, along with $600 billion in savings from entitlement and farm subsidy programs, and $800 billion from reduced combat spending. There would also be $200 billion in new spending for unemployment benefits, homeowner mortgage relief and infrastructure.

Republicans immediately took to their fainting couches. “Right now I would say we’re nowhere, period,” Boehner told Chris Wallace. But, in fact, these were the same terms the supposedly shocked — shocked! — Republican leaders had already heard from the president himself earlier in the year.

President Obama has mounted a campaign-style effort to go over the heads of congressional leaders and get the American people involved. Recently he appeared at a toy manufacturing company in Pennsylvania, proclaiming that the Republicans refusing to budge — and thus raising taxes for everybody — would amount to “the lump of coal” for a “Scrooge Christmas.”

The president ended his speech by saying, “So I want you to call, I want you to send an email, post on their Facebook wall. If you tweet, then use a hashtag we’re calling ‘My2K.’ Not Y2K, ‘My2K,’ all right? Because it’s about your ‘2K’ in your pocket.”

It’s really great that the president is appealing directly to the people. But why assume that the people will only respond to a direct appeal to their pocketbooks? Why not also appeal to the need to grow the economy, create jobs, rebuild our infrastructure and, yes, even take care of America’s unemployed? Where is the moral imperative — that can help connect us all — to rebuild the country?

The debate the country should be locked in right now isn’t about the fiscal cliff and the deficit, but about the growth cliff and the 20 million unemployed or underemployed Americans. Economic growth for the fourth quarter is expected to be under 2 percent — well below what it needs to be if we’re going to substantially reduce unemployment.

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Copyright 2012 The National Memo

    The rich don’t care for the poor . the rich said we need to keep our money so we can make jobs .
    where are the jobs the rich made ??? Of course over in china and the camen islands .
    stop the old Bush wars and bring our men and women HOME NOW .
    I hear we are giving money to the talban to buy guns to kill our people .????

  • clarenceswinney

    Great Gop achievements—

    Eisenhower initiated Interstate Highway
    Reagan signed Martin Luther King holiday
    Nixon signed affirmative action law
    Nixon initiated EPA
    Nixon initiated OSHA
    Bush created two wars, moral and economic collapse
    Ike was good–Ford was good–Bush I was good
    Reagan + Bush II were bad for America And the world–Unrestricted Gambling=Disaster
    Redistribution of Wealth & Income Upwards via 2500 Billion in Tax Cuts mostly for rich and increase by Spending and Borrowing.
    Created two awful illegal wars by invading two of most destitute -most unarmed nations on earth
    2500B Tax Cuts and borrowed 9000 Billion to pay for them and major increases in spending(80% Reagan + 65% Bush II). Clinton + 24%.
    Which party won every 20th Century War but one??

    Which President increased Total Stock Market Value by more than thrice all predecessors combined
    Which President never told the people a single lie on policy.
    Which President got more of his Legislation passed in first two years under a Democratic Congress than all but one President (LBJ).
    Which President released more secured documents than total of all preceding presidents?
    Which President implemented more anti-terrorism programs than any in history?
    Which President had, possibly, the most successful domestic record in history?
    answer below


    • William Quigley

      Which 20th century President was best prepared academically and experiencially to serve as persident?
      Which 20th century President approached the job of President as a statesman rather than a politician? And as a result, had the greatest success as President, personal failings aside.
      The answer is the same as above

    • Ford was a CIA contact on the Warren Commission. . . the Commission that ignored the fact that the Parkland Hospital staff saw a huge exit wound out of the back of JFK’s skull and that skull and brain matter was missing. The Bethesda autopsy photographer was soon shot in the right side of his head. They called it suicide but he was left handed. The photos he took disappeared. Instead, they eventually released a drawing of a small entry wound in JFK’s rear skull. Bush I was involved (He claimed he did not remember where he was at the time of the assassination. He was in Texas and there is a photo of a look-alike outside the Texas Schoolbook Depository just after the assassination. A man named George Bush of the CIA showed up in J. Edgar Hoover’s office the next day). Bush was a virtual unknown yet soon became CIA director.
      Reagan’s would-be assassin: Bush’s Texas oil tycoon neighbor and political contributor friend’s son. Bush would claim he did not know him. Bush was the first to propound the “New World Order.” The biggest ripoff of the Middle Class – The Savings & Loan Bank ripoff under Reagan-Bush. The first Gulf War was promulgated on The Incubator Babies Lie under Bush I.
      Governor during the first secret flights of cocaine to US which landed in Arkansas and President when the first WTC bombing took place using real explosives supplied by the FBI, during the WACO Massacre and cover-up, during the Oklahoma City Bombing on which day the Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco agents mysteriously failed to go to work at the Murragh Building , and Defender of the lie that 9/11 was not an inside job: William Jefferson Clinton.

    • joeham1

      Get off the crack!

  • President Obama is right, we need real debate over real issues. First and foremost we can not sustain our standard of living and meet our unrealistic expectations without paying for it. Secondly, a concerted bipartisan effort must take place to reduce spending without impacting our national security, the safety net, and critical services such as education. Thirdly, we must discuss investment, not only to stimulate the economy and encourage private sector investment, but to upgrade our infrastructure including our bridges, tunnels, levees, and power grid.
    Above all, we must invest in education, with special focus on providing marketable skills to the unemployed, veterans, and those who have been left behind for a variety of reasons.
    The childish partisanship that has characterized governance during the past several decades is not serving us well. We need additional political parties representing all segmemts of our ideological spectrum instead of two major parties entrenched on polarized ideologies who more often than not are more interested in protecting and advancing the special interests that support their campaigns than serving the country. We must also limit the influence of special interests in American politics.
    Debates such as the ongoing fiscal cliff and the constant debt ceiling exercises are an embarrassment, they seldom produce tangible results, and they undermine our international credibility. Our politicians need to grow up, show courage, and must focus on what is best for the country rather than what is best for 2% of our population.

    • nobsartist

      Talk is cheap. We need a jobs bill that stops H1B visa’s that are taking jobs from Americans and we need 100% employment.

      We need to see the CIA budget and we need to know how much AT&T has been paid to spy on us.

      We dont need anymore debate. Thats what created the obamacare disaster. We need someone to make a decision and we need leadership.

      Soon the Dems are going to join the republiCONs in that deep hole that they have dug themselves into.

      • 100% employment is a virtual impossibility, but I agree with you in that job creation must be one of our top priorities.

        H1b visas are issued, mostly, to attract foreign professionals needed to satisfy shortages in fields such as medicine, physics, chemistry, engineering, computer science, etc. Unfortunately, in addition to having one of the highest high school dropout rates in the industrialized world, most of our college bound students major in liberal arts at a time when sectors of our economy cannot find qualified applicants to fill the best vacancies our economy has to offer. Thousands of medical doctors from countries like India and Pakistan enter the USA every year. Sadly, even that is not enough and shortages of medical doctors are anticipated within the next decade or so.

        We must invest in education and we must encourage our children and grandchildren to pursue careers in hard sciences.

        We must also invest in infrastructure, R&D and modernization or we risk becoming a second rate industrial economy.

        • nobsartist

          Thousands of medical doctors come here from other countries because it is virtually impossible for white males to get into med school because of quotas. This has been going on for decades. So you give no real reason why H1b visa’s should be stopped.

          We invest more money in education than we did 50 years ago yet we graduate people from high school that have 7th grade educations. How does that happen? Graduates from colleges today do not have as good of an education as a high school graduate did 40 years ago. How does that happen?

          Those “doctors” educated in other countries… do you verify the education that they received?

          Did it occur to you that we have let people from other countries dictate education requirements tailored to people from other countries instead of ours, hence this “fake” shortage of qualified workers?

          I cannot understand why the auto companies claim there is a shortage of skilled workers and then they bring over “experts” from countries that still use ox carts for transportation.

          100% employment is possible for 100% of the people that are able to work but that will not happen as long as those with secret agenda’s are allowed to dictate who gets to work. That is what is going on now and has been since 2001.

          • Qualiffied applicants to medical school are accepted regardless of ethnicity or gender…as long as they can pay the tuition and other costs. The woman that cuts my hair is from the Ukraine. She, her husband and their children are very, very, white. Her son is a teacher, her daughter is attending medical school on a full scholarship. Foreign doctors cannot practice in the USA without passing a very tough exam to practice in the USA.
            BTW, the problem is not limited to medical doctors. My son works for a very large software company. Many of his co-workers are from India and other countries, not because his employers does not want to hire Americans, but because there are not enough qualified applicants to fill all the vacancies they have.
            The problem with our education system has nothing to do with funding, teachers or the adequacy of our schools. The main reason involves the disintegration of the American family. People are too busy making money to take care of their children, motivate them, and help them with their personal and educational problems. Discipline is almost a dirty word, and respect is a thing of the past.
            100% employment is an impossibility, among other reasons, because of our tendency to move around. The days when a person spent his/her entire life working for the same company are long gone. People quit their jobs for a variety of reasons, among others to find a more lucrative and/or challenging job, better working conditions, or to pursue an opportunity to learn something new or put our skills into practice. We never had 100% employment, and never will. In fact, we consider 5% unemployment full employment.

          • nobsartist

            Sorry but you are wrong about who gets accepted to med school. The surgeon that I used to date in the 80’s told me all about the “med school deal” and how the best way to maintain a 4.0 is to learn to cheat on tests at an early age.

            I also have a good friend who works for a major software company that also employs many from other countries and he maintains that they are mostly useless and cannot solve abstract problems.

            That has also been my experience in the automotive engineering realm.

            It seems though, if you have a certificate from some far off place that know one has ever heard from, you are instantly qualified.

            The problem with our educational system has everything to do with funding, the lack of oversight on expenditures and the concept of allowing local school boards the power that they have. My tax dollars are flushed down the toilet on schools that resemble shopping malls but for some odd reason cost 3 times as much.

            The lack of disciplined and respect is due to teachers going out of bounds. Do you want to protect teachers that beat students? I have heard these arguments about family values , respect and discipline over and over again. I would prefer to see mental profiles of teachers before they receive the right to discipline anyone because their job is to teach and not discipline students.

            Teachers should be more concerned about weather or not their student can add or spell rather than being concerned if a student “respects” them or not.

            Then again, I also think that cops should have law degrees like they are required to have in the Netherlands.

            As far as lifetime employment goes, management today, who were not smart enough to start the business that they manage in most cases, have learned that it affects the bottom line when you pay a pittance of a retirement to a worker that retires, especially after paying him a pittance while he/she was working for you. You know, a good management policy is to try to anticipate those costs and set the price of goods to cover those costs. That what MBA’s are supposed to do. Too bad they cant.
            Which brings us right back to poor education with one additional caveat….over paid executives who once again, were not smart enough to start the business that they run yet are responsible for running it.

            Sort of like bill ford and the ford family or any number of other “executives” in the automotive, technology or manufacturing realm.

            Lets see how well apple does once they realize that they cannot innovate and people figure out that the only thing the junk they sell is good for is storing music and pictures..

          • I am not sure I understand what medical school students cheating on their tests has to do with H1b visas. Most of the PCPs I had since I retired were from India. The one I have one is from the Middle East. The alertness and diagnosis of two of them saved my life. You may want to research a little more on this subject. The real problem is that not enough foreign doctors are coming to the USA to compensate for the shortages we have in that field. If the trend continues we are going to end up with a crisis in our hands.
            Regarding foreign engineers and scientists. Like employees from every country, some are outstanding, some are average and some are below average. It is up to the employer to reward top performers and discipline those who don’t tow the line.
            Teachers that beat up students?

          • nobsartist

            You stated that we needed to import doctors because of a shortage here in the US.

            I stated that due to “quota’s”, it is very difficult for white males to get into med school.

            I am sure that you are aware of the caste system that exists in India. I do not believe that we should allow anyone from any countries that have this type of system in our country.

            My experience, which is quite vast, is the basis behind my statement. I have worked with very few people from india or pakistan on a professorial level that impressed me. Once you get past the BS, its time to take off back to india for something or another. Any American that tried to pull the BS that they seem to get away with would be fired in a minute.

            But usually by the same incompetent manager that brought the person over to begin with.

          • Most American businessmen and managers reward performance. Substandard employees, regardless of gender or where they came from, usually end up without a job.
            Believe me, if those professionals that enter the USA every year with a H1b visa don’t perform to acceptable standards, the best they could hope for is a job at a 7-Eleven.
            BTW, my point regarding this issue involves the fact that we are falling behind because our children are not getting the education they need to succeed in the 21st century. I am convinced that teachers are not the problem, and that the real problem starts at home, in part because of our unrealistic expectations and the demands of modern life.

      • Replying to nobsartist –

        Although I believe AT&T may well be complicit with information gathering, I also believe that all the major telecom companies are also doing the same.

        However, I believe it is the NSA that gathers, records and analyses the data, and is responsible for the dissemination of the information to the overt and covert “spook” community.

  • montanabill

    Arianna, apparently Maynard didn’t subscribe to adage that you put away supplies during the good times to be prepared for the bad times. Somewhere along the line both you and Mr. Keynes missed the point of the Grasshopper and the Ant story. Now the grasshoppers want their ‘fair share’.

    • Sand_Cat

      @ montanabill:
      And you ants have brains too small even for your species, and many of you are ruthless killers besides.

    • Under Clinton (I may dislike his cloak and dagger routine but he did well with the economy) we taxed and spent plenty and still saw the economy prosper. It is more what we invest in that benefits us, not how much we penny pinch. When the private enterprise has less control over the government’s investments we do great. When they try to get the government to be their personal handmaiden, we go down the tubes. Why didn’t all those “job creators” create jobs with all those tax breaks they’ve had for the last dozen years?????
      We need new and repaired infrastructure, investment in human resources, and a new energy system. Dump filthy, fossil fuels that are ruining our land, water and atmosphere. The last three decades on earth have each been the hottest on record until the next one came along. When enough polar and glacier ice melts, a lot of trapped methane will be released. Methane is about thirty times as powerful a greenhouse gas as CO2. The problem of our atmosphere trapping the sun’s rays will get much worse.
      The sun (solar), wind, and hydrothermal sources of energy are widely available and do not pollute. Hydrogen is potentially and readily available. It is in every drop of water on Earth and only needs to be split off from the Oxygen. When burned it produces only clean, harmless water vapor. We have four major auto manufacturers already producing hydrogen burning vehicles (Toyota, Volkswagen, General Motors and Fiat).
      New techniques of producing hydrogen include: a byproduct of certain bacteria which merely needs to be collected and using free solar energy in a process called artificial photosynthesis which can now be done as quickly as natural photosynthesis and can produce hydrogen on a large scale. Furthermore, new techniques of storing hydrogen do not require it be cooled or kept under high pressure. What is needed is large-scale investment which our private capital is unwilling to do because they can make more money with filthy fossil fuels since they are scarce and hard to get, while hydrogen is widely available and everywhere).

      • montanabill

        Actually, Bill was guilty of a little ‘off the books’ financing himself. However, I certainly don’t have any problem going back to the Clinton tax levels. Of course, that would require that we go back to his spending budgets and his regulatory level. Any problem with that?

  • I hope President Obama holds steady on his tax proposals. There is no real compromise for the Republican Party. Their agenda is for the good of their party not for the good of the AMerican people.

    • I would not be surprised if President Obama proposes raising the upper income tax rate change to people earning over $500K to get enough votes in the House to avert the fiscal cliff. Considering that the Tea Party already rejected Speaker Boehner’s $1M proposal I doubt any amount will satisfy the people that lost the election a few weeks ago. Instead of learning from their defeat they are more defiant than ever. The only good news about this is that they may be digging their own graves. Hopefully people will remember this in 2014.
      Regarding spending reductions, I believe the party that has been clamoring for reductions the last 3.5 years should be able to provide specifics. Rep. Ryan proposed the dismantling of MEDICARE and replacing that program with a voucher system for people younger than 55, which would kill the program for everyone due to lack of funds. Is that what the GOP has in mind?

      • “Is that what the GOP has in mind?” The answer is yes and it is yes if you ask that question about any goverment program. The gop hate the phase “promote the general walfare” Which in their minds means communism.

  • elw

    The biggest problem with the desire for “real debate” is it takes two to debate. We do not have two Parties ready to debate, because the Republican do not understand what that means any more than they understand what compromise means. Their interest lays in the pocket book of the very rich (themselves) and to the orders of one very self-centered man named Norquist. Obama is not appealing to the Democratic base with this new spin; he is appealing directly to those in the base of the Republican Party who do not fall into the top 2%. They need simple messages not one of any depth.

  • stsintl

    Why is this “Fiscal Cliff” such a big problem? It was designed by the US Congress and signed by the US President in to law. If this is going to be such a disaster, why the heck they all agreed to make it the law?

    • oldtack

      If you will recall. This arose in the big “fight” over raising the National debt limit. In the ensuing squabble we lost our AAA rating and were in danger of defaulting. At the very last – Congress drafted the present Bill and presented it to the Senate. To avert defaul tand the ensuing problems, the Senate passed this Bill and the President signed it with this provision that a super committee composed of 6 members from each party thoroughly examine the projected cuts and make changes where needed. This “Super Committee” couldn’t agree on the time of day and at the close of the allotted time with no action the Bill was automatically set to go into effect January 1, 2013.
      Let’s place the blame where it rightfully belongs – on a totally dysfunctional Congress. Congress has operated as a dysfunctional group for the past 60 years or so but this present group seems to be the worst of the lot.

      • stsintl

        Here is my take on the US Congress:

        Capitalism is masculine and strong. Democracy is feminine and delicate. Free Press is the window to Democracy’s bedroom. When Capitalism places five judges of the Supreme Court to guard Democracy’s bedroom, pulls down the shades over the windows, and rapes Democracy, nation ends up with a BASTARD Congress. That’s what we have.

    • William Quigley

      The fiscal clift was an attempt by the Republicans to tie the Presidents hands and to embarass him ahead of the elections. The President signed on, as it seemed to be the only way to get a budget deal and also increase the debt limits. But basically you are correct, the congress put the fiscal clift together, then can take it apart. Unfortunately they are still playing the role of trying to embarass the President instead of looking after the general well fare of the country.

  • howa4x

    The problem we have is that there is a section of the republican party called the tealiban, whose sole aim is to do away wiht the federal governmnet not through sequestration but through strangulation. This group will not compromise nor will it give an inch. We’ve already seen that this group cost this country dearly by having our credit downgraded for the 1st time is history. They are funded by the Koch bros who are so rich, 31 billion each, that what happens to the middleclass is of no concern to them, and the tealiban do their bidding. The only way there will be a compromise is for the republican party moderates to join with democrats to craft a soulution. The republican party regulars have more in common with them then the tealiban, who have already cost them dearly at the polls. Throw in Grover Norquist the representative of the Koch bros, and you have a witches brew to tangle the situation. There will be someting done after the new year when everything expires. Then middleclass taxes will go up, and a bill will be brought to cut them and most will vote for that. The real fight will be over what is considered rich, 250k or 400k. there will be some cuts in future entitlements and there will be a trades on unemployment and deductions. I think the only ones getting overly excited about this is the cynical press who are druming up ratings for their shows

  • Sandra Lee Smith

    What we NEED is an HONEST DEBATE, not “majority” dictatorship; when the ideas presented accomplish nothing but further erosion of an already nearly moribund economy! What we HAVE is a HUGE spending problem; not a revenue problem, so raising taxes is NOT the answer; and neither is cowardly refusal to DEAL with the problems HONESTLY! Seniors, of which I’m one, SCREAM “Don’t touch Social Security and Medicare”, while the “poor” demand their “welfare and freebies”, and NO ONE will touch those “sacred cows”! But the TRUTH is, if Social Security and Medicare as they now are, are NOT reformed, they’re NOT going to last, period! And welfare spending/freebies is SO far out of control as to be an absolute JOKE! Much of it is spent on people who have no right to even BE in this nation; but will our “government” adhere to the laws and send them back, thus cutting some serious COSTS to the nation? No… their illegal votes are much too important to some politicians, and their illegal undercutting of wages to some businesses who support the government’s FAILURE to do it’s job. So the SPENDING continues unabated, and NOTHING in DC will change!

    • Sand_Cat

      Did you forget any FOX / Republican Talking points?

      Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

      • Welfare payments to the poor pale in comparison to the $4 billion in corporate welfare enjoyed by big oil. Social Security is a government backed insurance program payed for by workers and their employers and is solvent. Your hero Ronald Regan said that Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit. Voter fraud by illegal voters is a GOP fairy tale, Election Fraud by Republican election officials is a documented crime that is still going on.

      • Sandra Lee Smith

        As a matter of fact, I do. We also need to STOP all foreign aid, for which we’re BORROWING, and that’s plain STUPID!

        • johninPCFL

          You’re focused on things that make no difference. We spend more in one day on the military than the entire year’s spending on the poor.

          Days two and three of military spending is larger than the entire annual foreign aid budget.

          The entire discretionary part of the federal budget, the money used to pay welfare costs for the poor, the costs of all foreign aid, the costs of all government operations (the courts, the FBI, the FAA, the Congress, the Presidency, training aid for local police and fire fighters, the Coast Guard, the Border Patrol, etc.) amounts to $500B per year. Social Security spending is three times that. Medicare spending is twice that. Military spending is 1 1/2 times that.

          All of the things, in total, that you bitch and whine about cost $10 per citizen, while the military costs $2000 per citizen. Pick a target that makes sense for a change.

  • docb

    The Congress do not debate..the repub baggers filibuster or silent hold everything – 361 filibusters from repubs in 3 years! The American people deserve better than the republican illegitimates that did not even get a majority of votes but won by the gerrymandered districts and lost seats in both Houses and the Presidency!

    The situation is absurd…The House will not even bring a bill to the floor when it could pass without a majority of the majority! Boneher and lyin ryan and cantor are runners and can’t hold the votes…

    False arguments about SS and Medicare and never did the repubs give a damn about the deficit when they did not fund the 2 wars, Medicare part D, or the tax breaks…but now scream about what they already spent! The President has lowered taxes and cut $1 Trillion in spending without a vote from repub baggers!
    Shameless and repugnant!

    Call them out…1,866.338.1015 or 1.866.311.3405!

    • stsintl

      Here is my take on the US Congress:

      Capitalism is masculine and strong. Democracy is feminine and delicate. Free Press is the window to Democracy’s bedroom. When Capitalism places five judges of the Supreme Court to guard Democracy’s bedroom, pulls down the shades over the windows, and rapes Democracy, nation ends up with a BASTARD Congress. That’s what we have.

      • docb

        CLEVER but jaded,sts!

        • stsintl

          Here is how President FDR stated the same sentiment

          “The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism ownership of government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private power.” –

  • evon23

    I think Congress should be denied their salary until they act in accordance with what the majority voted for in November. Nothing seems to get through the Republican party to convince them what the people want. Maybe withholding their salary would get them to think properly!

  • oldtack

    Somewhat coarsely phrased but – a pretty good analogy.

  • Thanks, Clarence. It is nice to be reminded once in a while…keeps one from staying strong on their points. We have a good President and Cabinet but when we did not get rid of the GOPs in the local elections, it hurt him a lot in getting done what he so wanted to do..Protect the American people financially. That doesn’t just mean helping those who have made money to keep it, but helping those who lost all of theirs from the Bush economy. Thank you for your reminder!

  • The US should convert to clean, renewable energy sources as fast as possible. The earth’s geosystems cannot sustain the constant onslaught of poisons we are spewing forth from filthy fossil fuels and nuclear wastes.
    With global warming we will also find that the ice melt will increase the depth of water. Its warmer temperature will cause it to expand. Also less white surface covering on the earth will reflect less of the sun rays back into space. Furthermore, the ancient ice has a lot of methane which is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2. It is about thirty times as powerful.
    We have a clear choice. We have solar, wind, geothermal and hydrogen to use in combination for our energy needs. Hydrogen is making great strides. We now have much better ways to produce and store it and auto manufacturers are bringing forth new models. Hydrogen is in every drop of water and we now have means of artificial photo synthesis that can use free sunlight to convert water into its two component elements, oxygen and hydrogen. When burned, Hydrogen has one byproduct, water vapor. The filthy fossil fuel producers will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into realizing that their products need to be reserved for things like plastics and fertilizers. The problem with this theory is that they have huge power: governmental, corporate, and propaganda.

  • ridemybroom

    we need a debate ? About ?…why dont we just get rid of all those old white racist men….there should be no debate about that!

  • When Napoleon needed money, he sold us the Louisiana Purchase. We need money. Let’s sell Puerto Rico. We’ve been engaged all these years and they never want to seal the deal anyway. I believe many countries could afford the $17 trillion or so we need. We could get a nice new neighbor who would really appreciate having a winter playground, is not war-like, and would make a most convenient tax shelter for our plutocracy.

  • joeham1

    Our President has shown the biggest lack of leadership of any President we have ever had! The sad thing is he will always pass the blame.

  • We all know that Bush set the pace for this down fall in the taxes when he gave them all those releif’s now we are the one’s that suffer and the republicans have to let go or send us deeper into DO DO .The need to get off the potty or shit it out and suffer with all of us to put it back to gather again on equal basis .Most of the rich that are honest are admitting it and when they argue that it won’t help but so much they are talking about one time figures and using it to keep us at bay like a bunch of dogs with a coon up a tree .I even had a minister and domn ass citizen tell me that since I am a democrat, I can’t be a Christian and that I was a bay killer and that I wanted total gun control .That is what they have been brain washed to believe about the democrats .In reality we believe in life and our guns for the persute of happiness in saying the ten commandments and the constitution is ours too and we hold it dearly we just want every one taken care of in all affair’s except for the one’s that abuse it .I am sick of their nasty ways and ready for them to quit stalling and every one get to work at what is equal to all .