Smart. Sharp. Funny. Fearless.
Sunday, September 25, 2016

Measuring GOP Extremism: What Carville And Greenberg’s Latest Polling Reveals

Measuring GOP Extremism: What Carville And Greenberg’s Latest Polling Reveals

It is becoming increasingly plain that the most formidable obstacle to national progress and global security is the Republican Party – and specifically the extremist factions that currently dominate the GOP.

Now Democratic pollster Stan Greenberg and political strategist James Carville have announced what they plan to do about that pressing problem: namely, “The Republican Party Project,” which will provide extensive survey research devoted to “exposing, monitoring, and confronting” the Republicans while helping Democrats and progressives to regain the political offensive.

To begin advancing these ambitious goals, Carville and Greenberg released the first in a series of polls on Wednesday that showcased several of their target’s most divisive and dysfunctional features —  and revealed some surprising weaknesses that could eventually prove disabling if not fatal.

In surveys of more than 1,700  U. S. voters conducted for Democracy Corps between July 10 and July 15,  the methodology used by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner oversampled Republicans in order to allow detailed analysis of two subgroups: Republicans themselves, and independents who lean toward the GOP. The overall margin of error was under 3 percent and the margin of error for Republicans was about 4 percent.

According to Carville and Greenberg – whose presidential polling proved the best national voter survey in 2012, predicting the popular vote with pinpoint accuracy – Republican extremism is leaving the party increasingly isolated, even from many of its own members.

At the moment, only 31 percent of voters identify as Republicans, compared with 38 percent who identify as Democrats and 30 percent who call themselves independents. (Aggregated surveys collected by Pollster currently confirm an even worse scenario, with Democrats at 34 percent and Republicans at 23 percent.)

But just as significant as party identification is how voters see the Republican “brand.” Although Democrats as a party and in Congress are not exactly beloved, their net negatives are around 10 points below those of the Republicans, who are regarded with absolute disdain by most of those polled. Only 13 percent believe that the GOP “shares their values” and only 9 percent believe that the GOP has “realistic solutions to the nation’s problems”

  • gmccpa

    I dont know what the Democrats are thinking. The daily announcing (gloating?) of the problems within the Republican Party may very well prove counterproductive. It gives the impression that they are imploding into the dustbin of history.

    IMO Its a mistake. The Republican Party has a real good chance of winning the Senate and retaining the House in 2014. I know I’ve posted this repeatedly. But the ONLY thing that matters is the GOTV in 2014. EVERYTHING else is meaningless. And the Republicans – being fully aware of the consequences of a good turnout – are doing everything they can to make voting more difficult. This must be addressed now, before its too late to react. What does it matter how many identify as Republicans…if they vote…and Democrats don’t (or cannot) vote?

    • sigrid28

      Therefore the Department of Justice is stepping in to curtail voting legislation meant to disenfranchise voters in Texas, particularly minorities–TODAY. It is up to leadership in the Democratic party to expose efforts nationwide to limit voting rights, and to emphasize as well the absolute necessity of voting in ALL elections. One branch of the party has to be shown that voting DOES make a difference. Yet another, the progressive, has to be shown that staying home over minor grievances can have disastrous consequences, as it did in 2014. The constant drumbeat of news coverage documenting the refusal of the House to vote for anything except defunding or repealing the ACA cannot let up. I’ve noticed that vocal components of factions of the Democratic party have well co-ordinated stories to extend the influence of the outcome of the Trayvon Martin case and anger over the Supreme Court’s gutting of the Voting Rights Act. This has to be kept up–especially during the summer when lazy Republicans are on their long six-week vacation. Democratic leadership will be elected by Americans who cannot take a summer vacation but who will have time to absorb the truth: Republicans would casually tank the economy and refuse to allow a new job initiatives to pass. They are OK with insulting minorities. They do not care how much other Americans suffer because of their efforts to punch holes in the safety net and undermine the first initiative to succeed in improving heath outcomes in decades. While Republican legislators indulge in their vacations, in countless low cost backyard bar-b-ques and over inexpensive picnics on their own patios, sipping tea on front porches nationwide, they will take note of this callous disregard for their well-being and that of their parents and children. They may work too hard to follow the news daily, but when it comes time to vote, their common thoughts during the summer of 2013 will guide them not only to the polls but in the voting booth.

      • gmccpa

        Hey Sig…pretty much agree with everything you wrote…and you’ve presented it very well. (although not sure how successful the Justice Dept will be) My problem is with the repetitive meme that the GOP is basically imploding. Democratic Party voters cannot get lulled into believing the GOP is done, therefore, minimizing the need to get out and vote. So, yes, continue the ‘drumbeat’ about the Republican refusals and obstructionism. Just let’s not get fooled into thinking that just because they are dysfunctional governing Party….that they will be dysfunctional as election opponents. And we all must VOTE. Its absolutely imperative. Or else, come 2014, they will control both houses. And that is a very scary thought.

        • sigrid28

          Thanks for the great posts and a compliment! I agree with you entirely about the problem complacency presents for the Democratic party when it comes to winning elections. As a teacher, I understand chapter and verse the difficulty of getting people to carry through on an assignment–even one that must be finished or there will be severe consequences (like not graduating). Democrats seem to be motivated by neither the carrot nor the stick, it seems. Perhaps, they see through devices, which are really just the next thing to a lie: we like the truth, and feel impatient when we feel as though we are being manipulated. But they REALLY hate being tricked!

          So I think your approach is a good one. We must keep telling Democrats that when Republicans carry on like screw-ups, it could be just a trick to make us think they will throw the election because they seem so incompetent. Actually, the GOP can count on many die-hard, one-issue voters–pro-life, NRA, anti-government, anti-Obama, etc.–even if other Republican policies could kill them, like the refusal to allow health exchanges in Red states. Behind the curtain, are crafty Republicans plotting to win, by any means necessary. We can beat them with numbers, but only if every voter who opposes them goes to the polls–Democrats, Independents, and moderate Republicans, fit to be tied.

    • charleo1

      Could not agree more! For one thing, more Dems are up for reelection
      in the Senate. And, Dems have proven in the past. If the opposition is incapable of doing them the least bit of political damage. They are fully
      capable of doing it to themselves. Two words: Martha Coakley.

    • MightyT

      What I see is that the GOP is doing everything it can to eliminate voter turnout by passing laws to make it as hard as possible for the lower wage person to vote and will contine to do so withthe Supreme Courts backing.

  • sunmusing

    The GOP is certainly doing damage in the States…

  • Stuart

    Well, the problems are in the states, not nationwide. Progressives need to remember that. How many Obama states have Republican majorities? Look it up.

    An Article V constitutional convention can be called entirely by the states and completely bypass the federal level. So what good does a Democratic majority in Congress do when a Tea Party-led constitutional convention can throw everything out the window? The present Constitution’s supremacy clause may be gone, too. And you thought slavery and women’s suffrage were settled.

    Carville is too smart to ignore this aspect of the problem. Presumably, the Republican Project will eventually take off its rose-colored glasses.

    • charleo1

      Exactly! Nullification is being fully implemented. Secession is being thrown
      around as rhetoric, if ObamaCare goes into effect. Very troubling.

      • morbius777

        I think Southern Secession would be a good thing for the north/western/northeastern states. We should embrace it. While we will no longer be a global superpower (maybe that’s a good thing), we won’t be funding any military adventures for the wealthy elite. Oh, and by the way, let’s move Wall Street below the Mason/Dixon line.

        • edwardw69

          Yes, let them go this time. Texas can support them–see how Mr. Perry likes that. They can even take all the aircraft carriers; we’ll keep all the nukes.

          • morbius777

            A book you might enjoy: “Better Off Without ‘Em; A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession” by Chuck Thompson

          • Mark Forsyth

            Hell,I can run with just the title but I think I’d like a peek at that.

          • edwardw69

            I’ll take a peek, myself.

        • charleo1

          In other words, we should point out it looks as though they
          need more rope, then give them more. I like it!

  • Dominick Vila

    When it comes to control of Congress, especially the Senate, what is important is not the number of Americans that identify themselves as Democrats, Republicans or Independents, but the number of states that consider themselves blue, red or purple. A state with half a million people can elect the same number of senators as a state with 20 million people. Considering the fact that there are more “red” than “blue” states, and that there are more Democratic senators than Republicans running for re-election in 2014, the party affiliation of voters at a national level is irrelevant insofar as control of the Senate is concerned. We may win a few seats in the House, but not enough to have control of it. The only area where we are likely to remain victorious for many years to come is the Presidency.

    • sunmusing

      exactly…

    • FT66

      I beg to disagree with you Dominick. I do think it is the number of those who identify themselves Democrats and other few who are independent who can make controlling the senate/congress happens. The problem is, democrats has most of young people who vote only during General Election and very few during mid-term election. If this group can get fully engaged during mid-term election as they do during General Election, for sure you can notice the difference. If they can make a DEM Candidate win the state during General Election why not make those senators/congress people in the same particular state win elections as well? What matters is the full participation of all those are supposed to be involved, which is now lacking in the democrat side.

    • Lovefacts

      I’m so tired of Dem and Progressive behavior. In order to win, Dem and Independent voters ,must vote and local parties must field candidates. Yet, local and the state parties let even vulnerable Republican incumbents go unchallenged.

      Worse yet, when Dem’s get upset about the lack of movement on issues close to us, many don’t vote, especially in off-year elections. They see it as sending a message, punishing the president or whoever for not fulfilling our desires or their promises. In addition, Independents don’t show up to vote in off-year elections. So, if we want to hold the Senate, increase our standing in the House, and pass some of the president’s agenda, GOTV is critical, because Republican’s–upset or angry with their representatives–will still vote.

    • jointerjohn

      In addition to your astute observations, Senate races are far more volatile in terms of individual candidate personalities. Even blue states like Massachusetts and Illinois will elect republican senators when weak democratic candidates run. Not so in the red states. Add in the obscene amounts of money made possible by the disastrous Americans United decision of the SCOTUS and Senate races go wild. The U.S. Senate will turn on how effectively we engage young voters. We don’t even need to identify their political preferences, just turn them out, because overall those under thirty will vote three-to-one democratic. They are also the least reliable voters so turn-out is everything.

      • Dominick Vila

        You are right, one of the factors that influence voters decisions is party discipline. Our tendency to break ranks on some issues, debate and criticize issues that are important to Democrats, and willingness to seek compromise give us both the strength that allow us to govern effectively and the weakness inherent in not voting along party lines. Our ambivalence or complacency after winning an election is also a contributing factor to Republican victories, especially when their political platforms are unpopular and when they nominate weak candidates.
        I also agree with your observation about young voters. As you said, most of them prefer Democratic policies, the problem is encouraging them to vote. The GOP seems to be focusing their attention on Hispanics-Latinos, I think that will backfire on them, in part, because I doubt this ethnic group will be persuaded by facile excuses or promises, in part because the insults and actions of the not too distant past are still fresh in their minds, and also because once people make an ideological decision it is very hard to change it.

        • PissedoffinAZ

          Agree with everything you said except “because {of} the insults and actions of the not too distant past”. If you consider the “not too distant past” to be, well, yesterday, then I agree 100%!

    • Mark Forsyth

      From what I have seen so far Dom,the various Democratic constuencies appear to be quite aware of the need of not being complacent during the mid-terms and realize that the only hope the gop has is at the state levels where they might slip in their candidates to an advantageous position. They are already mobilizing their grass roots workers and appreciate the need to get out the vote.
      That being said,no one should think that victory is a foregone conclusion.

      • Mark Forsyth

        I knew that I messed up the spelling somewhere: Constituencies.

    • Fern Woodfork

      The Problem Is When The President Does Something His People Don’t Like They Take It Out On Voting, They Stop Voting And That’s Not The Answer!!!!! We Have To Vote To Get Our Voices Heard!! Cause Every Election Is Important And All Votes Counts!!!

      • Dominick Vila

        Hi Fern. You are right, by doing that the allow the opposition to get the upper hand and control the agenda. Another reason is that a lot of people become complacent after the elect a President and other leaders and think that’s the end of it. Obviously, that is simply not the case, people have to remain engaged to achieve their goals. There is not much a President can do if Congress refuses to even consider his/her proposals or refuses to fund legislation after it has been signed.

        • Fern Woodfork

          Exactly My Friend!! 🙂

        • And when you call them on it, they pout and say “both parties are exactly the same”.

          Of course, the more intellectual third/no-party types know full well that this is bogus, they just think that by helping the GOP, they’ll create a situation where things are so bad that the people rise up in revolt and let the proggies lead them to the great workers’ paradise. This “heightening the contradictions” strategy was tried in 1930’s Germany (when “Nach Hitler, Uns!” was the motto of the German Communists), as well as in America in 1980 (when Teddy Kennedy’s progressive backers staged a big anti-Carter poutrage that inflicted Ronald Reagan on us all), in 2000 (when Nader and his minions gleefuly boasted that they wanted to punish the Democrats and help Bush win), and 2010 (when they played into Tea Party tropes against the ACA that are turning out to be wrong, as the lowered insurance rates in New York and other areas are showing).

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    First of all, let’s ditch the fearmongering games some love to wallow in. Fear isn’t a contagious disease to those of us who are survivors and believe as many high minded people do…No Pain…No Gain. The worst ramification of the GOP Bull Male Domination Party is they appear now to be no more than a bunch of relic wannabee CEO frat bois.

    It’s a natural human instinct to step away from extremism. The GOP Bull Male Domination Party doesn’t get that. So, they continue to do what all extremists always do…alienate the most beneficial members of their own party and with it, the rest of the most politically savvy Americans. More’s the pity.

  • itsfun

    One thing the poll shows is how scared some liberals are of the next election.

    • eps62

      Think, it’s the other way around ? The Rethug’s are freaking out!

  • Why hasn’t the Dep’t of Justice not filed obstruction of justice suits against Republicans. They are disgrace to democracy.

  • middleclasstaxpayer

    Just a comment on the president’s claim of alleged “PHONEY SCANDALS.” RE: Benghazi: the only PHONEY part here is the claim that it was an unplanned demonstration against a video that virtually no one knew about…the REALITY: Four brave Americans dead & NO ONE lifted a finger to stop the slaughter even with almost 8 hours notice??? RE: IRS discriminating against many….this was ADMITTED by IRS officials, so nothing phoney here except admin excuses to the contrary. RE” NSA spying, again this was admitted by the agency and still continues, so nothing phoney here except president’s attempts to cover it all with a claim of “phoney scandals.’ There IS, however, something phoney in all this….your PRESIDENT!

    • morbius777

      Yes Sir…. PHONY SCANDALS!!! What is really behind this is racism, pure and simple (and a fear of whites losing power, which they are). YOU JUST CAN’T STAND THE IDEA OF A BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE, NOW CAN YOU?

      • middleclasstaxpayer

        The only way race gets in here is when your president brings it up at every opportunity. He has attempted to pit one group against the other ever since taking office, therefore dividing our nation. If it’s not rich against poor, it’s black against white, or democrat against Republican. For a guy who claimed he was going to unite all, he’s doing a VERY POOR job of it. But then again, what has he done well? Nothing I can see. Failed to close Guantanamo, not supported gays & lesbians, raised oil prices & costs to citizens by denying Keystone pipeline, killed full time job growth with obamacare (yes jobs may be up, but we now have the HIGHEST NUMBER of PART-TIME workers in our US history!!)…He never even met with his supposed “jobs council”???

        • morbius777

          Utter nonsense. YOU SIR, ARE IN DENIAL. You are an Obama hater, probably because of race. Uniting this country is a fantasy, even for Obama. (I suggest that you read: American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America” by Colin Woodard). Many of you claims are bogus, but I’ll mention a few. “Failed to close Guantanamo”…. due to Republican obstruction… not wanting to move prisoners to the US prisons. Obama raised Oil prices…. ridiculous… the Keystone pipeline would send particularly toxic crude to Texas (can you say Koch brothers refineries), and the resulting gas would be sold overseas, with no particular benefit to US consumers except more pollution. Job loss…. that’s Obamas fault??? Offshoring jobs by major corporations and failure to enforce the Sherman Anti Trust act starting with Reagan is the reason for poor job growth. We could have an infrastructure rebuilding program as Obama proposed, but, guess what? Republicans blocked it. You sir, are full of s***.

          • middleclasstaxpayer

            You missed the most important….we are becoming a nation of PART-TIME workers….WHY? Because of Obamacare, employers are fearful of hiring full-time workers, who they will be required to insure for healthcare. SO, employers simply put ALL new hires on part-time work to avoid the exorbitant costs associated with insuring everyone. WHO LOSES: US Workers of course. Oh and by the way, add to my earlier list that Obama is now also pitting blacks against Latinos by siding with the Martins against a Hispanic, who basically now has a death sentence hanging over him & his families heads because of threats to ALL their lives. Thanks to Obama questioning a legitimate trial in a US court that was broadcast to the entire world to see.

          • morbius777

            Oh come on. Again, your not acquainted with the facts.The ObamaCare employer mandate / employer penalty, originally set to begin in 2014, will be delayed until 2015. The ObamaCare “employer mandate” is a requirement that all businesses with over 50 full time employees provide health care for their employees or face a tax penalty. The tax penalty is between either a $2,000 per employee tax, if the employee purchases insurance without tax credits, or a $3,000, if the employee uses premium credits to purchase insurance through the exchange. The employer mandate is officially referred to as a “shared responsibility fee”, as employers tax will go to help fund tax credits to Americans using the health insurance exchanges.
            So that’s 50 workers before the mandate kicks in. And I think that is as it should be. It’s hard to make a case for an over 50 workforce being a “small” business.
            Obama pitting blacks against Latinos? Don’t be ridiculous. Zimmerman had NO BUSINESS GETTING OUT OF HIS CAR…. PERIOD. Just like in Jr. High, if you confront someone as a civilian, you better be ready to defend yourself.

          • middleclasstaxpayer

            The “mandate” being postponed for businesses for one year is proof that it is currently an unworkable solution. But “individuals” still must comply, putting the burden completely on hard-pressed consumers. And the “penalty” for uninsureds in businesses will easily be raised to unbearable rates when too many employers elect no insurance coverage for employees, further weakening a fragile economy.

            Regarding the Martin case, the trial was about what happened, NOT what should not have happened. But you are correct, when Martin turned to throw the first blow (confronting someone) the other party was prepared to defend his life.

          • morbius777

            And so you solution is to have everyone who can’t afford health insurance to show up at the ER, where WE ALL PAY FOR IT. As the president said, if Republicans have a better idea, let’s hear it.
            You don’t know who threw the first blow, and neither does anyone else…. YOU WEREN’T THERE. AND YOU STILL IGNORE THE FACT THAT ZIMMERMAN GOT OUT OF HIS CAR AFTER BEING SPECIFICALLY TOLD NOT TO DO SO.
            Another fact: You are probably at tea bagger or at least republican. You are an Obama hater, regardless of the facts. And it is probably racially motivated.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            How old are you, 16? You are repeating talking points not based in reality, much less on your personal experience.

            Workers have been pushed to part time for the past 40+ years so employers would not have to provide any perks, including (at the time far-cheaper) healthcare, vacations, and personal time. I watched companies get sold, and the new owner comes in, fires everyone on salary, and then re-hires them through a temporary service. Think that was because of healthcare? NOT! This was to put more money in the pockets of management.

            If companies were so concerned about their health care costs, they would all be out there pushing the government for a single payer plan that would put the cost on each individual taxpayer, not them. Wake up. Idiots like the Papa John dude are just selfish bastards who can’t possibly afford to supply health care because of course, they would NEVER raise the price of a pizza 5 cents to cover it.

            As for your totally ridiculous segue to the Martin case, here is a news flash, Blacks and Hispanics have had issues for decades. Obama has nothing to do with it. Once again, are you 16, because you are either very young, or very uniformed.
            As for the “poor Hispanic with death threats hanging over him and his families (sic) heads”, he is a murderer, whether or not he got away with it or not. Young black men who have NOT shot and killed anyone have a death threat hanging over their heads every time they walk out the door. I don’t agree that his family has a problem, but if they do, they have plenty in common with the President, who has been threatened plenty, and by people who do more than just talk.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Are you out of your mind? Corporations broke faith with the American worker way back in the eighties to avoid paying mandated benefits to full time employees.Americans have been playing hell trying to find decent well paying full time jobs ever since.Low hours and low wages.That happened long before anyone knew who Barack Obama was.You are nothing but an Obama hating troll.

        • PissedoffinAZ

          You are really a poster child for how effective right wing brainwashing can be.

          This president has tried to be a uniter, but has been rebuffed by the GOP even to the point of them refusing to come to dinner at the White House. Each of the “pitting one against the other” items you mention has been a talking point of the right.
          When the huge discrepancy in incomes or tax rates, (especially compared to 50 years ago) is mentioned, the RIGHT labels it class warfare.
          The President has rarely brought up race, in fact he has been overly cautious in doing so, yet you immediately label any discussion as “pitting black against white”.
          The price of gas has absolutely nothing to do with the Keystone pipeline. Are you aware that most of that gas, if it is built, will not stay in the US, but be sold to other countries? Didn’t think so.
          Failure to close Guantanamo can be laid directly at the feet of the GOP who know damn well there are secure facilities and more effective civil courts in the US, but who chose to raise fears about terrorists on US soil and the need for less effective military trials to block the closing.
          Obamacare will not take effect for two more years, and the growth of part time jobs is well into it’s 5th decade, so you are way off target on that.
          He ended DADT and has come out publicly in support of gay marriage. What has your team done?

    • edwardw69

      If the Republicans have proof of “high crimes” committed by the President, why hasn’t the House brought Articles of Impeachment against him? The Tea Party controls the House and they hate the President with a vehemence that borders on criminal: and yet, no impeachment. Mr. Issa says he has evidence of malfeasance by the Administration–when do the rest of us get to see it? Why hasn’t he called as witnesses the 30 or so others who where there at Benghazi? What is it that they will say that he doesn’t want heard?

  • morbius777

    I think that Democrats should get on the band wagon for Southern Secession, the region where most of this nonsense originates. Tea baggers and evangelicals (read former KKK members/Southern Baptists) should move south and work for secession. If you want a feudal fascist nation, then I think that you should have it…. I just don’t want to live in it.

    • bogmart

      Please don’t lump all of us who live in the South as though we all agree. I have ancestors who came to Texas when it was still a Republic. I have a very southern background. I consider myself to be a moderate liberal, white older female. The GOP used to be a party of moderation. Eisenhower said he was proud to be a “liberal Republican”.

      • morbius777

        Then you folks need to start being a lot more vocal against the likes of Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and the like. You have been conspicuously silent.

        • bogmart

          It’s hard to tell what most people here really think. The far-right folks don’t mind telling you that you are ignorant, at best, or unpatriotic. I do get a sense that things may be changing. Most seem to be afraid to voice an opinion simply because they want to go along to get along. Most just don’t like conflict. But we’ll see at election time.

          • morbius777

            Well, I don’t mind telling you that when some right winger starts out on me, he’ll find out he’s bit off more then he can chew. I go after them like a junk yard dog with facts. After one or two exchanges, they usually disappear. Most of them are Fox viewers anyway, with little contact with reality. But if you want respect from center, and center left people, you moderate Republicans are going to have to take on publicly the tea party/libertarian types. Otherwise, more and more of us are going to advocate for southern secession.

          • bogmart

            I just wish I had your courage and your ability to come up with facts quickly. I am a proud Democrat. My husband and I sported an Obama/Biden bumper sticker and magnetic sign before the 2012 election. A few people jumped on us, but actually not as many as I expected. I was not afraid to show my support for moderate liberals. Mr. Obama is a moderate/liberal and I support him. I’m glad to see him now speaking up more forcefully.

          • morbius777

            Have courage. Go after these imbeciles. Remember several broad facts: They are more driven by their emotions then by facts (which they can use or discard at a moments notice… witness the climate change debate). They have been co opted by big money right wing interests, who could care less about democracy or Americans (except, of course, as a market place).
            And, significantly, when we talk about the “united” states, nothing could be further from the truth. We are as divided as Shea and Sunni cultures are in the middle east. A good read is: “American Nations; A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America” by Colin Woodward. There you will see that we are different as different can be from before the Declaration of Independence. Yankeedom and The Deep South had opposing economic and moral interests right from the beginning. Our current political battles are the inevitable result.

          • bogmart

            I can agree with you mostly, but I don’t believe that cultural or regional differences are necessarily bad for our United States. I am a senior citizen and go to our center five days a week. The people who come there are a very diverse group. We have Pacific and Caribbean Islanders, Japanese, Chinese, Hispanics, African-Americans, military wives from several countries, and the rest of us. No politics come up here, in TEXAS. Of course, we are mature, so no one is interested in confrontation. Maybe we are not typical.

          • morbius777

            Read the book I suggested. I’d be interested to see if you feel the same way after reading it. We are taught a sanitized version of American history in public school (maybe even in private school). The reality is a lot messier, and we don’t always end up wearing the white hat. But this version of US history doesn’t fit with many peoples understanding of history; it’s disquieting, disturbing, and leads to self questioning… the best thing that could happen to this countries electorate.

          • bogmart

            I am well aware that this nation has changed from the original concepts of the founders. Look how a misinterpretation of the Second Amendment has led to so much gun violence. I also know that there was much bickering among the founders. Remember the huge rift between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. These two were united at the time of the revolution, but later disagreed, actually refused to speak, over the direction the nation should take. Fortunately, there was a reconciliation at the end. I am old enough to remember depression and war, some years of good feeling, then the cycle starts all over again. I must agree that things are nastier than I remember from the past, but that is likely because we had no mass media and we were not bombarded all day every day with name-calling. I vote for more civility. I may lose, but I am determined to do what I can.

          • morbius777

            Again, I urge you to read the book I spoke of. It is a historical perspective of the different regions of the country. It will change your perspective.

          • bogmart

            I may or may not read the book. I know something about regional and cultural differences. I am not naïve, have traveled a lot, read a lot, and thought about these things.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            Bogmart, I think those of us “of a certain age” prefer not to get confrontational. I also find that, generally speaking, lefties do not bring up or push their politics or their religion to friends, acquaintances, neighbors, complete strangers, compared to righties.
            I love to talk to people in public, but I do not talk about my beliefs, even if they are professing theirs on a shirt, bumper sticker, whatever. On the other hand, I have had people roll down the window or accost me in a parking lot to tell me exactly how they feel about my bumper sticker!
            That is only a good thing when it turns out to be a fellow Green Bay Packer backer, and that is also the one time I DO share my beliefs with strangers!

          • bogmart

            Good for you! Those of us who have lived for many decades have seen these political fights many times. Some have been worse than others, and a few have resulted in good changes. I think I’ll get a Dallas Cowboys bumper sticker.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            Hey it works! Recently ended up at stop light next to young couple, Packer logo on back windshield.

            I waved my little “windsock” hanging from rearview mirror.
            He held up his neck lanyard.
            I held up my purse.
            He held up his wallet.
            I pointed to small Packer effigy.
            He pointed to much larger packer troll.
            I gave up, rolled down window – “You Win!”
            I smiled all day, and bet they did too!

      • Mark Forsyth

        Ike was one of the last ‘Good” republicans.I hope that every Texas Democrat stands together with a strong loud voice.

  • jnsgraphic

    I haven’t voted Republican since Ronald Reagan, the party has gone ‘extreme’ too far right, and no longer appeals to the majority [middle-class] of Americans… anti-women, anti-Latino, anti-gay, anti-Semitic and racists; the GOP is exclusively about cutting taxes for the super rich. And, if you believe in ‘less government’, then don’t vote for the government to control womens’ medical decisions or use government to discriminate against people; they need to stop the constant hate and obstruction if they seriously expect this country to survive and move forward. Boehner, the Republicans in Congress, McConnelll and the rest of the ‘teabaggers’ would rather see the President and our country fail, than do their part to get involved in democracy and continue to drag their knuckles and get paid to do nothing. In 2014 the GOP house has got to go… get ready for HIllary in 2016

    • morbius777

      Well said. This is why I believe in calling the tea baggers/evangelical’s bluff. They want to secede? We’ll help them pack. Good by, Red states.

      • jnsgraphic

        Christian’s, Evangelical’s call them whatever you want… if Christ came to their door seeking shelter, they would look at him as another ‘poor’ homeless person and turn him away! These are the same people that turn there backs on middle class America, demand cuts to the programs that help them and then turn around and give more power to the wealthy and corporate America, while they take advantage of corporate welfare and tax loop holes when they’re profitable. The Republican party is on a course for disaster. they hold a cross in one hand and try to burn it with the other…. they’re all ‘going to hell in a handbasket’ just not soon enough.

        • morbius777

          The so called “evangelical” churches (mega churches) especially in the south have become home to racists who want to resist desegregation. In fact, many have become the new home to the KKK…. Besides, the message in some if not all of these churches is that “God wants you to be rich” as opposed to the rest of the population (presumably, because you are “saved”… they never say for what). It is a thinly disguised ploy for a new aristocracy in America.

          • jnsgraphic

            The southern influence hasn’t helped them any.

          • disqus_LcxpBv2uzz

            Dear Jesus, please save us from the “christians”!!!

          • InsideEye

            Christians have screwed up everything, Sharia law, is better, women can be used as sexual objects again, one man one rule over many females and the younger the better, gays will be able to eat other food other than just salads. Abortions will be banned, except for beheadings/pithing, Philadelphia style, no more BLTs or pulled BBQ pork except for just pulling your pork . I can hardly wait.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            And while you’re at it, Jesus, from this idiot as well.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            I heard an excellent program on NPR a year or two ago about how some of these churches used the pulpit to convince their low income parishioners to get into homes/ mortgages they could not afford. I can’t remember all the particulars, but I believe there was some type of kickback or other involvement that enriched the church and/or pastor. Many of these people later lost the home, and everything else.
            Bottom sucking scum.

        • Kathy Carr

          AMEN!!!! They talk the talk BUT can’t walk the walk!!!

  • ococoob

    Good! I hope the party IMPLODES! Get rid of the Teatards and “Elmer Gantry” groups!

  • Mark Forsyth

    Seems to me that it might be time to trot this out again,so here goes:
    Come senators ,congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don’t stand in the doorway
    Don’t block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There’s a battle outside
    And it’s ragin’
    It’ll soon shake your windows
    And rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin’.
    B.Dylan

  • Allan Richardson

    In the long run, the GOP may be imploding, but a wounded predator can still do a lot of damage before it goes (sorry if I insulted predators by comparing them to the GOP). And what kind of VIOLENT parties might its pieces turn into? Or, for that matter, if their leaders can get enough election laws and procedures changed so that ONLY those who believe in their “gospel” can even VOTE? What they want is the equivalent of the NFL deciding that last year’s Super Bowl winning team can hire and fire the officials, change rules in mid-game, and even write rules that apply only to the opposing team. There would be no more competition, just a meaningless championship carried by that one team forever.

    At least in football, the process would be self limiting, since people who cheer for other teams would quit going to games or watching them, followed by the “champion’s” own fans, followed by a financial collapse of the entire league. But in running the country, the result would be a dictatorship; either fascist (in the ACCURATE definition of that term) or, with their economic policies, a FEUDAL monarchy.

    The Republicans are extreme, but not too extreme to win rigged and gerrymandered elections, thus winning the power to rig and gerrymander even more until they become the ONLY party. If Democrats are not careful, we may end up holding our “convention” inside Guantanamo as political prisoners (“traitors” according to the GOP).

    • Mark Forsyth

      Put wounded and scared together in one creature and you have got a problem.
      Since republicans have got the market cornered on negativity,Democrats need to indulge to the point of addiction in positive thought and action.Leave the fear to the fear mongers.They generate divisiveness and shortages and enemies and prove their guilt by running when none pursue.
      We are the victory we dream of and we must live that victory as if we have already won it,it will be delivered to us.

  • moderationpreferred

    The problem with being too extreme are these people (both parties extremists) are voting with their emotions and unwilling to use reality and common sense. When someone has to resort to obscenities and rude names like libtard or neoturd then they have already lost their argument.

  • irishtap

    While these numbers are significant – we need to acknowledge the current success of extremists to essentially stall government, despite a relatively small ideological backing. This is no accident. And since they’ve been able to undermine representative government as often as they have – we will certainly see more of the same tactics. The redistricting plot along with Citizen’s United corporate/billionaire hostility to elections and the group behind ALEC are intertwined in a carefully crafted orchestrated scheme to create unrelenting noise and polorization to circumvent the machinery of government be it – local – state or at the federal level. With the seemingly endless supply of money from the ‘Bircher’ Kochs and Sheldon Addelson for purposes of obstructing ‘any’ semblance of progress regardless of measure of imperative – they will stick with what works. It is my opinion this ‘undeclared insurrection’ has been in the planning stages for at least two decades, with first awareness being evident in the Clinton years.

    To combat this fully obvious attempt to dismantle all citizen pathways for voicing greviences against bad acting corporations and the politicians who employ them, mass citizen participation is requisite. We must directly engage the foundation of it’s infrastructure – ‘the large money sources’, through unrelenting citizen pressure. In the final analysis people like Addleson and the Koch’s are attempting to circumvent government for purposes of protecting and growing their massive fortunes. Koch has zero regard for the continuation of a habitable planet – so long as he can die filthy rich. It is our responsibility to pull the plug on their misplaced, grandiose attempt at social engineering – to where they perceive a clear point of diminishing returns. Only by pushing back hard against this reckless and completely unethical, radical element – making their lives even more uncomfortable than they’ve made ours, will we reclaim our rightful place at the helm of representative government. We need to label this bunch for what they are – contrived government pollution. Unless we convince the money people to turn off the spigot – this, ‘thus far effective ruse’ will continue.

    • InsideEye

      Should all corporations be nationalized?

      • PissedoffinAZ

        What a stupid, mindless, reply. Go turn on FAUX.

  • Robert Parker

    …can’t fix stupid.

  • Kathy Carr

    WE ALL NEED to get out and vote AND STOP reelecting the ones in there!!! WE NEED NEW BLOOD in our government along with term limits for EVERYONE elected
    d!!!

    • PissedoffinAZ

      Term limits are vastly overrated as a panacea for congressional ills. Not every incumbent is wrong, and new blood does not necessarily equal improvement – witness the Tea Party Numbskulls elected in 2010.
      Just as you might want to pass on the newest brain surgeon, or being represented at trial by the newly-certified lawyer, there is something to be said for experience, and that applies in Congress as well. Those who have been there longer know the ropes, have the contacts, the can make the deals needed to get things done.
      Rather than new blood, I prefer new ideas, a willingness to compromise (as opposed to the Tea Partiers who see not budging one ideological inch as a point of pride), and a recognition that we do not have the time to screw around until “your guy” is put in the White House. Dems are the only party willing to compromise for the past 30 years, and unfortunately that has resulted in a country tilted so far to the right, that the only remaining position on that side is fanaticism.

      • Kathy Carr

        You make a lot of valid points. FORGOT 1 thing. WE NEED COMMON SENSE.

        • PissedoffinAZ

          Yup, common sense ranks right up there!

      • morbius777

        And, if you look through the lens of history, you see that the objectives of Yankeedom (New England, Far West, a few upper Midwestern states) are diametrically opposed to the Tidewater and Deep south objectives. Oil and water didn’t mix at the start of the country and don’t mix now.

        • PissedoffinAZ

          Hence gridlock on steroids.

      • InsideEye

        They know the ropes of PACS, graft, . The only non represented people in congress ARE the people. PAC MONEY DOES NOT SPEAK FOR THE CITIZENS. They must be outlawed…slim chance for a vote like that.

  • Catskinner

    We need to get behind every Voter ID effort in the country in order to insure honest and open elections going forward. We did not get that in 2012.

    • PissedoffinAZ

      No, we don’t , because there is virtually no voter fraud in this country. The actual incidence of voter fraud – that is, people voting who are not eligible to vote, is a fraction of a fraction of a percent.

      “Voter ID efforts” have nothing to do with insuring open and honest elections, and everything to do with limiting voter access to groups that traditionally may not have ID, and oh, incidentally, tend to vote mostly Democratic. Purge lists that are full of errors, people listed as felons, or dead, who are not. Illegal voter registration where applications were sorted and one party’s thrown away, or people soliciting voters for one party only. These were, and are, all being done by the Republican Party.
      There were open and honest elections for a couple of centuries, until the GOP decided it could only win by cheating. It is well known that George Bush did not actually defeat Al Gore, especially in Florida, where dirty tricks and shenanigans limited the Democratic vote, but it took flat out lies and intervention of the Supreme Court to hand the Presidency to Bush. (You might want to Google Sandra Day O’Connor and see how she feels about that now.)
      If you really believe in open and honest elections, you will be fighting to defeat the voter suppression laws the GOP is trying to pass all over the country. Instead, help to register as many voters as possible, because free and open elections are what made this nation great.

      • Catskinner

        Naive is the word that best describes you, Po’dinAZ.

        • PissedoffinAZ

          No, informed is the word. Google or Bing “Voter Fraud: and see what you come up with.
          And next time remember – the right wing talk machine is NOT a reliable source for FACTS.

    • morbius777

      You need to learn the value of honesty, as the republican in Pennsylvania did when he claimed to deliver votes to Romney through voter ID laws. This is about voter suppression and you know it. White men (especially southern white men) afraid of losing power. How many cases of voter fraud did Bush find while he was in office (even though he looked hard for it). How many cases of documented voter fraud in 2012??? I’m calling bullshit on you, catskinner.

      • Catskinner

        Call what you will, morbius, but voter fraud is hard to detect and hard to prove. It takes a lot of time and money. When they do investigate, however, they find it, as they did in the Dornan/Sanchez House race and the Coleman/Franken Senate race. The results of both of those races could have very likely been overturned, but it took so long to get the results it wasn’t practical. They are both examples of why Voter ID is so very important.

        The only votes it would restrict are those from voters voting in multiple precincts and illegal aliens.

        • morbius777

          Baloney. Where is your proof from a neutral source? You might as well claim the moon is made of green cheese.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            “Neutral source” may be tough for Catskinner, Morbius. I found when I did a search for voter fraud, the links were fine, but when I searched Franken-Coleman, they were suddenly all to NewsMax, Breitbart, National Review, etc.

          • morbius777

            Precisely, Pissedoff. More posts from the right wing echo chamber. Which is why I want all those nut jobs to secede. Sign me PissedoffinSedona

          • PissedoffinAZ

            LOL. My local ID (East Valley Trib) is PissedoffinGlendale!

          • Catskinner

            You can find the results of both of those races on Wikipedia. They’re both well documented on the site.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            Wikipedia, now there’s a well-vetted source.

          • Catskinner

            All of the documentation you could every want is listed at the bottom of both of these articles. It’s a much more reliable source than the New York Times, for instance.

          • morbius777

            It’s your claim. You prove your point… show me your research, and I’ll verify it.

          • Catskinner

            In 1996, Sanchez ran as a moderate Democrat in the 46th District against six-term Republican incumbent Bob Dornan. The bitterly fought race saw Sanchez charge that Dornan was out of touch with his constituency, especially after a distracting run for the 1996 Republican Presidential nomination. The 46th had always had a Democratic tilt, but became even more Democratic after the 1990 census when it received a considerably larger number of Hispanics than had previously been in the district. Sanchez won by 984 votes, and Dornan contested the election, alleging that many votes were cast by people who were not American citizens. A Congressional investigation found evidence that 624 votes were indeed cast by non-citizens. An additional 124 votes had already been thrown out by California officials. These votes were not enough to throw Sanchez’s victory into doubt, so the investigation was halted and the outcome was upheld by a Republican-controlled Congress,[22] making Sanchez the first American of Mexican heritage to represent Orange County in Congress. Dornan continues to assert that illegal voter registration of non-citizens was decisive in Sanchez’s victory. In consultation with the INS, the House committee identified as many as 4,700 questionable registration affidavits;[23] but the probe was dropped before these affidavits could be investigated. As Article I Section V of the Constitution of the United States provides that “Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members” the investigation was without binding authority.[24]

          • morbius777

            From Demos: Along with the Orange County D.A. and secretary of state investigations, the

            House committee’s investigation took a year to complete and produced, in the end, a disputed finding of

            fraud that was too insubstantial to convince the Republican dominated House to upset or reverse Sanchez’s

            victory.49 On February 12, 1998, the House voted 378-33 to dismiss Dornan’s contest

          • Catskinner

            I was never arguing that Dornan should have won, only that voter fraud exists. And that’s why we desperately need Voter ID.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            From James Joyner, who does not have a problem with Voter ID:

            “There’s just a wee problem with all of this: There’s next to zero evidence that voter fraud of the type that could be deterred by photo ID is a significant problem in the United States.

            An October 2006 report to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission found, as reported by USA Today, that “most fraud occurs in the absentee ballot process, such as through coercion or forgery.”

            Similarly, a five-year effort by the Bush Justice Department “turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections,” according to reporting by the NYT. While 86 people were convicted of crimes related to elections, they were mostly felons and illegal aliens who voted despite not being eligible. They found no evidence of widespread conspiracy, much less double voting or other types of fraud that an ID requirement would prevent.

            It makes sense when you stop and think about it. The minuscule gain in voting a second time while claiming to be someone else is almost surely not worth the risk of getting caught. And there are much easier ways of gaming the system, such as filling out absentee ballots for nursing home residents and others under undue influence.

            Now, people have irrational fears and often aren’t swayed by empirical evidence. Since presenting photo ID is such an easy thing to do, it might be justifiable as a requirement if it truly boosts public confidence in the sanctity of the ballot box. But it will have next to no impact on actual fraud–since there’s next to no actual fraud of the type the laws seek to deter.”
            Read entire article at

            http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/do-photo-ids-help-prevent-vote-fraud/

          • Catskinner

            I’ve presented the evidence for voter fraud. The country needs Voter ID to prevent it.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            No, you did not present evidence. Indeed, several people have provided evidence the type of fraud that Voter ID would prevent is virtually non-existent.

          • Catskinner

            You must not have been paying attention, Po’d. That’s a pretty common malady among Democrats.

          • InsideEye

            Ohio, Hamilton County, vs M Richardson, a “polling official “admitted dropping 6 extra votes into ballot box. ….because Obama seems to be a good guy.

            What type of ID would be acceptable to prevent all of these illegals and Alheimers citizens from voting again in another precinct or another state?

          • PissedoffinAZ

            1.) You are listed on your own precinct sheet. This means you cannot roam from precinct to precinct voting multiple times.
            2.) I assume you mean Alzheimer’s, and I don’t know what an “Alzheimer’s citizen” is, since there is no city, county or state by that name in the US. What would prevent most people suffering from Alzheimer’s from voting multiple times is precinct listing (see #1 above), and possibly inability to travel alone by car, due to disorientation. By the way, what would prevent you and your cronies from voting multiple times in different states?
            3.) I doubt Obama won by those six votes, if that story is even true. However, George W. Bush clearly won due to voter fraud perpetrated by Republicans in the 200 election, including hundreds of negative votes for Al Gore in one county. Yes, negative votes. Funny how that did not get any attention at all from you people who are freaking out since the black guy got elected.

          • InsideEye

            You initially had to show some form of ID to get logged unto the precinct sheets. That is my point. If you can not provide an ID between election cycles, 2 , 4 or 6 years, then one is hopeless and should not vote. You have to guard against fraud at every level: registration, poll officials as in Cincinnati , Ohio . Or manipulating electronic counting machines…inside jobs or Outside remotely. All possible voting frauds get someone’s attention evidently. Blacks should be automatically allowed to vote since 99% of them are the ones referred to In the Constitution to be allowed to vote, since they and once they are constitutional deemed eligible to vote since they were brought here or were certainly borne/born here. I went so far as to say that Blacks do not even have to show up, since all ..99.9% vote Democratic, just pencil their numbers in as a constant in all elections.

            True a so called Black guy is president…is he truly black enough asks, racist Sen Harry Reid . Whites also voted for President Obama, so racism is effectively over. Some did not vote for him because of his policies, but the media likes foment news to marginalize us. It is a very neat trick and a good strategy, gets all groups riled up, war on women, voter suppression (proof of IDs). Illegal aliens, abortions after 21. Weeks…on and on nonsense.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            Verbatim – copied from Wikipedia.

          • Catskinner

            That’s what you asked for.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            Let’s see what else Wikipedia has about Dornan, since you seem to be defending him and his supposed questionable loss to Laura Sanchez. Let’s start with his prior run:

            “For his final successful run for Congress, Dornan had signs posted at polling places that warned voters in Spanish that they should be prepared to prove their citizenship in order to vote, suggesting that immigration officials would be present. The success of this action was believed to have kept enough Latino voters away from the polls to eke out a final victory for Dornan against Mike Farber in an election that featured allegations of domestic violence by Dornan.[8] A long court battle deemed these signs illegal and inappropriate, and he was not able to post them again at the next election, which he then lost to Loretta Sanchez.”

            A DORNAN SMAPLER:
            During a House debate in 1994, Dornan outed fellow Republican representative Steve Gunderson, accusing him of having a “revolving door on his closet.”[9]

            In a 1986 U.S. House speech, he called Soviet journalist Vladimir Posner a “disloyal, betraying little Jew who sits there on television claiming that he is somehow or other a newsman.”[10] This was the only statement Dornan apologized for, saying, “That’s the only thing in my life I ever lost sleep over”.[11] Dornan also said that he intended “to say ‘Judas,’ not ‘Jew,'” as a rebuttal to Posner’s insistence that the Soviet Union was free of anti-Semitism.[11]

            “Every lesbian spear chucker in this country is hoping I get defeated.” — to a Los Angeles television reporter in 1992 regarding a female challenger in the primary election.[11][12]

            On a January 28, 1994 appearance on Politically Incorrect, Dornan declared it was “The Year of the Penis” due to recent events in the news. This was a joke in regard to the 1992 media and political reference as that election being referred to as “The Year of the Woman”, when 4 women won election to the United States Senate. In relation to this comment by Dornan, Representative Barney Frank noted “Bob Dornan isn’t even rational on the House floor. You can’t expect him to be rational on Politically Incorrect.”[13]

            “You are a slimy coward. Go register in another party.” — to Orange County (CA) Republican Central Committee member William Dougherty after he supported Dornan’s opponent in 1996.[14]

            In 1994, a 120-page book of quotations of Dornan was compiled by Nathan Callahan and William Payton and published as Shut Up, Fag! The quotation that gives the book the title was actually shouted by Dornan’s wife, Sallie, at an AIDS activist during an Orange County town forum. Dornan claimed the book was backed by director Oliver Stone, whom Dornan labeled “a Bolshevik enemy”.[15]

            Dornan’s comments and behavior have led his political opponents to question his mental health. Mike Kaspar of the Orange County Democratic Party said, “The primary issue is Bob Dornan, himself. I think his character and his own sanity are an issue here.”[16] At a White House Correspondents Dinner, Al Franken (who is actually a friend of Dornan) joked “having Al D’Amato leading an ethics investigation is like getting Bob Dornan to head up a mental health task force.”[17] Michael Moore devoted an entire chapter of his book Downsize This! to his efforts to get Dornan involuntarily committed for psychiatric examination.[18]

          • Catskinner

            I’m not defending Dornan at all, PO’d. I’m defending the need for Voter ID.

          • dancerboots

            Did they deport the illegals..were they fined or jailed and I am assuming the 4700 questionable registrations were of all nationalities, not just Hispanics/Mexicans. There was no doubt Sanchez won in the next election.

          • Catskinner

            Sorry, I don’t know if they took any action against the illegal voters or not. I suspect some of them got registered through the Motor-Voter thing, and didn’t even realize they weren’t supposed to be voting.

            I have no interest in trying to promote Dornan over Sanchez, and yes, Loretta Sanchez did win the following election. I only mentioned the episode by way of explaining that voter fraud happens, it happens on a scale much larger than many media outlets would like to admit, and Voter ID is one way to combat it.

          • dancerboots

            Voter photo ID disenfranchises millions of legal citizens to prevent 86 possible voter fraud cases in a year. It isn’t a problem that needs to be solved by preventing legal citizens their right to vote. It has been passed in all the Republican majority held states since 2010 (33). But they didn’t stop there. They passed election laws that made it harder to register, shortened voting hours/days, and eliminated polling places in urban areas. When we witness a Presidential election with citizens standing for hours to cast their vote..THAT IS A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS TO BE SOLVED. It wasn’t a coincidence these laws were passed one to two years before 2012. If nothing else the confusion would disenfranchise voters and it worked. Students in Wisconsin were not allowed to vote because of a law that stated a student ID could not be used. The law was challenged and an injunction was ruled on the law Unfortunately, many poll workers were not informed. The League of Women Voters decided to not attempt to register voters in Florida because of their unnecessary rule that the forms had to be received in 48 hours or a hefty fine would occur. Why? The League is a very respectable third party that assists our citizens to register…why would a state want to make it harder?..could it be it is the poor/disabled/the elderly that have a more difficult time registering and voting? I say absolutely and so did a few Republicans bragged that it would work toward electing their Republican candidate.
            If we want a photo ID law in place..it must be uniform/free and easy to obtain and there must be exceptions when it is too difficult for a person to obtain one..i.e. lack of a birth certificate or disabled/poor with no means of transportation/also lack of a driver’s license. When a state will only accept a birth certificate/passport/military ID/and some a concealed weapons license and refuses to accept student IDs or a welfare recipients ID..we cannot be so stupid to believe the purpose is to prevent voter fraud..It is to prevent what Republicans percieve as Democratic votes.

        • PissedoffinAZ

          http://www.minnpost.com/political-agenda/2010/07/fraud-allegations-franken-coleman-senate-election-spur-investigation-also-o
          No they don’t “find it”. Read the ENTIRE above article, and pay especially close attention to the reference to FOX’s hyper-reporting”, as well as how allegations of fraud ARE investigated. And this is a perfect example of what the right presents as evidence – allegations that do not stand up to investigation.

          • Catskinner

            Check Wikipedia for the Dornan/Sanchez race, and the Coleman/Franken race. They’re both well documented on the site. This kind of thing happens all the time, but it has to be a really close race of substance to warrant the time and expense to investigate.

            On the other hand, all you have to do is to implement Voter ID and you eliminate most voter fraud.

          • PissedoffinAZ
          • Catskinner

            Fine–you make my case for me.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            Which case is that? That FOX blew this all out of proportion, and the Republican House found the charges were unsubstantiated?

          • Catskinner

            Not at all, PO’d. I’m just pointing out that there was significant voter fraud in this race–as there probably is in most political races, but it’s never uncovered because the races aren’t considered to be close enough, or important enough–and that’s why American needs Voter ID.

          • dancerboots

            It was Bush..worried about voter fraud that had it investigated by the DOJ for five years. The number of cases found…86….and many of them were not intentional. Photo IDs prevent one kind of fraud…that is voter fraud (where one person votes in place of another and/or registers fraudulently). That would not be illegals risking being caught and deported. Nor can dead people vote. While it is true that dead people may still be on a voter roll, they cannot vote. To make it worthwhile to upset an election, one would have to have access to the voter roll (I suppose that could happen if one bribed a clerk) and know which dead person was still on the roll. They wouldn’t want to hire a bunch of people to vote in the dead persons place and walk into the poll to find out the dead persons name was removed. So suppose they found dead people’s names that had not been removed from the roll. So the people hired to defraud would go into the poll, vote and then rush out to jump in a van and rush to the next poll districtand do it again..I wonder how much they would be paid..as it is a felony with a fine and jail term. Just because your man lost doesn’t give you a reason to claim there was significant voter fraud..That distinction goes to the Bush/Gore race..It was not voter fraud (and a photo ID would not make a difference)..It was manipulation of the voting machines and a stupid state using chads to vote on.

          • Catskinner

            Voter ID is the only path to honest elections–period.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            Not even close.

          • PissedoffinAZ

            Franken-Coleman.

  • Gary

    Have you noticed how the Republicans are now starting to talk as if they are going to work. John Boehner said, we are going to work to make America strong again..

    I don’t understand why the Republicans in the House didn’t go to work when this President took office, rather then yell Impeach him or he will destroy America.

    And when they opened there mouths and said we will make this man a One Term President and after he was elected again they said, WE WILL NOT WORK WITH THIS PRESIDENT. I may be wrong but don’t our TAX DOLLARS PAY THERE WAGES..?

    FOR THE HOUSE ALONE.. Tax Payers pay over $52,000.00 a Day and they have not worked. I would have lost my jobs years ago if I played that kind of a game. Republicans in states they control are now trying to pass laws to keep people from voting.. they are trying to pass laws to do away with the Over Time Pay… they are trying to pass laws to do away with the 40 HOUR WORK WEEK…

    DO YOU REALIZE WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO TO OUR NATION?

    THE SUPPORT THE RICH AND THE CORPORATIONS AND ARE DESTROYING THE AMERICAN WORKING FAMILIES, THE POOR AND OUR SENIORS..

    IT’S TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE AND DUMP THE TRASH MY FRIENDS..

  • middleclasstaxpayer

    Here is something to consider from a place where ONLY democrats rule: ILLINOIS
    A Wonderful State with ZERO Republicans….TRULY A DEMOCRATS PARADISE!

    There are more people on Welfare in Illinois than there are people working.
    Chicago pays the highest wages to teachers than anywhere else in the U.S. averaging 110,000/year.
    Their pensions average 80-90% of their income. You can’t blame that on republicans because there aren’t any.
    Wow, are Illinois and Chicago great or what?
    Perhaps the U.S. should pull out of Chicago ?
    Body count: In the last six months 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago ..
    221 killed in Iraq AND Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws in the entire US.

    Here’s the Chicago chain of command:
    . President: Barack Hussein Obama
    . Senator: Dick Durbin
    . House Representative: Jesse Jackson Jr.
    . Governor: Pat Quinn
    . House leader: Mike Madigan
    . Atty. Gen.: Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike)
    . Mayor: Rohm Emanuel
    . The leadership in Illinois – all Democrats.
    . Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago ..

    . Of course, they’re all blaming each other.
    . Can’t blame Republicans; there aren’t any!
    . Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country. Can’t blame Republicans; there aren’t any!
    . State pension fund $78 Billion in debt, worst in country. Can’t blame Republicans; there aren’t any!
    Cook County ( Chicago ) sales tax 10.25% highest in country. Can’t blame Republicans; there aren’t any!
    This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois . And he is going to ‘fix’ Washington politics for us???
    . George Ryan is no longer Governor, he is in the big house.
    . Of course he was replaced by Rob Blajegovitch who is…that’s right, also in the big house.
    . And Representative Jesse Jackson Jr. resigned. That is because he is fighting being sent to…that’s right, the big house.
    . The Land of Lincoln , where our governors make our license plates.
    But you know what? As long as they keep providing entitlements to the population of Chicago , nothing is going to change, except the state will go broke before the country does.

    “Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian.”