By Jason Sattler

Michigan’s GOP Extremism Goes Far Beyond Attacking Unions

December 12, 2012 4:52 pm Category: Memo Pad, Politics 126 Comments A+ / A-
Michigan’s GOP Extremism Goes Far Beyond Attacking Unions

If Michigan’s Republican Party didn’t exist, someone would have had to invent it as a perfect example of what Democrats lost when young people didn’t show up to the polls in 2010.

As a candidate, Rick Snyder defeated former congressman Pete Hoekstra and a handful of others in the GOP primary by posing as a nerdish alternative to the Tea Party fervor that was sweeping the nation. He then easily defeated his Democratic opponent and came into office with big majorities in the state House and Senate, who gladly cut taxes for businesses and raised taxes on pensioners while cutting spending on education.

Michigan — still in shock from the financial crisis and unsure if the auto rescue could work — mostly let Snyder go about his business, until they began to understand the scope of his new Emergency Manager Law, which ripped power away from local authorities and gave unelected bureaucrats the power to abrogate contracts and sell city property.

A “Recall Snyder” movement began, but without support from the state Democratic Party, it never put together enough signatures. The effort fizzled when the recall of Wisconsin governor Scott Walker failed.

In 2012, Snyder seemed to be veering toward moderation by rejecting a voter suppression law similar to one passed in Florida. The governor endorsed Republican nominee Mitt Romney, but never became a surrogate for the candidate. He mostly sat on the sidelines as the son of a former Republican Michigan governor who was born in the state lost Michigan by 9.5 percent. Michigan’s GOP lost five seats in the House and would have lost more if not for gerrymandering.

Also on the ballot were two measures that seemed to have infuriated the governor.

One would end the state’s Emergency Manager Law and the other would put collective bargaining in the state Constitution in a way that would have prevented the state from ever going “right to work.” Voters chose to end the Emergency Manager Law and not to protect collective bargaining.

In his press conference Tuesday, Snyder repeatedly insisted that the collective bargaining amendment was “divisive” and responsible for pushing the GOP to pass “right to work” legislation. It’s a convenient excuse. He’s suggesting that unions tested their power and lost. This sparked a backlash.

That might make sense if Michigan’s GOP weren’t also pursuing a laundry list of some of the most extreme legislation in the country, laws that would give tax credits for fetuses, let people carry concealed weapons in schools and — of course — fight Sharia Law.

Clearly, with a much less right-wing legislature set to be seated in 2013, state Republicans have decided that now is the time to reward their extreme backers — like the Koch Brothers and Amway founder Rich DeVos — who do business in the state under the cloak of groups like Freedom to Work, the Mackinac Institute, and Americans for Prosperity.

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  • lana ward

    Now people don’t have to worry about being fired because they don’t belong to a union. Many jobs will come back to Mich too, knowing they aren’t going to be threatened by unions!! ABC, NBC, and CBS wouldn’t put on the air , union thugs yelling, swearing at and hitting non-union supporters!!! They tore down and ripped up tents with box cutters, with people under the tents!! And they say the Tea Party was violent! Yea right!!!

    • charleo1

      Come on down to Florida. A RTW State for years. People down here don’t worry about
      being fired. Because one low wage, dead end job, is pretty much like the next.
      Like the strip malls the developers build. One after the other. Filled with uninsured parents,
      who worry about the rent going up again, because the Republicans never met an
      insurance, or electric company they would ever refuse a rate hike. They would sooner
      take a beating, as to improve a road, or fix a crumbling school, or pay a teacher.
      That’s why they can’t bribe businesses enough to come to Florida. Because, who wants to
      live in a falling down backwater, Republican poor house? And they never said the T-Party
      was violent. They said they were stupid.

      • lana ward

        Become an illegal alien, you will get EVERYTHING you need or want!! Omuslim said under his plan electricity costs would necessarily sky rocket. I saw it on a video–his exact words!! He is putting businesses out of business with unreal regulations. He’s put about 200 coal companies out of business, won’t let us drill here so we won’t have to depend on others. He is a communist muslim who HATES America

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/PMVMZMDLRQL3TRK5RNOHJVZPHU stoptheinsanity

          Lana, what a backward extreme right-wing troll you are! You are so full of hate that President Obama won reelection and your liar repuke candidate NittWitt Romney lost in a landslide. GET OVER IT!!! Why don’t you move on to other repuke sites where their thinking is just as warped as yours. You’re probably sitting home, with several babies, eating your bon bons, and drawing a welfare check while all of the time you have to attack those who don’t think like your ignorant self. As for deregulation of businesses, nobody preaches that more repukes. Look how at how “well” deregulation turned out under the Bush administration. Now, Congressional repukes are talking about reinstituting the same, tired, failed policies of the past. You live in an alternate universe. Jump on a ship or plane and deport yourself to Iran or China. You’ll love it there. See how much freedom of expression you’ll have at either of those countries.

          • lana ward

            Romney didn’t lose, the election was stolen. I have worked all my adult life. I 2 kids. Omuslim is closing down businesses everywhere . He says he wants to help the middle class so he’s going to raise taxes on those who hire the middle class. Really helping, the idiot!! He needs to get out of MY country. I was born here, he wasn’t

          • MRD1056

            I bet you have a picture of Donald Trump on your wall above your fireplace! LOL you are an idiot.

          • Lisztman

            Like I said, Ms. Ward. You’re a troll. The election was “stolen”? By HOW MUCH margin? And you think he caused the market crash and recession that started in — get this through your skull, if there’s anything inside it — 2008.
            You’ve worked all your adult life? I doubt it. You’re not an adult yet.

          • lana ward

            The Dems policies caused the crash-NOT BUSH!! 4 years of Omuslim and things are WORSE, not better. Things won’t get better either, Omuslim will make sure of that–and he’ll still blame Bush. He’s a little coward, America hating bitch

          • Lisztman

            Get off it. You’re full of crap. You’re chewing on Sean Hannity bull. You can yell and scream all you want, and believe what you want. But EVERYTHING you’ve said is out and out lie, and screaming it louder only makes you sound like more of a fool than you are.
            Now please shut up. You’re making me ill.

          • neece00

            She is totally unbelievable, wow.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

            Oh so you admit that you are a coward and hate America since you name is female and that could only be yourself that you are calling a witch with a capital b

          • lana ward

            Whatever

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ZJ5BBSQIGTUMERPZFALES6HQNY Bill

            Hey Listz you stole my word Lana can’t be an adult. She sounds more like a preteenage girl who pouts when she doesn’t get her way. Trying to argue or debate with someone who can’t tell fire from rain is a lesson in futility. Of course things have gotten worse since Obama became president – the stock market indices are down at least 50% (maybe I’m wrong and it’s up that amount), housing values are down (okay again maybe they are up) and over the last 24 months or more the monthly jobs numbers have been down (oh yeah I’m wrong they went up)

          • old_blu

            Romney did lose sorry get over it or you will always be a loser backing another loser.

          • lana ward

            The election was stolen. Romney would have created jobs. Obama keeps losing jobs and it’s going to get worse-and he’ll blame Bush

          • old_blu

            lana you need to get your head out of the right winged web sites the unemployment has been going down for 24 months.

            I would like to make a suggestion lana go one week and just watch HLN it’s not biased in anyway I don’t really like it that much but it is pretty balanced one week lana.

            DO IT. (your brains turning to mushy sh*t)

          • lana ward

            If you watch Fox News for One week, I’ll watch Head Line News for one week. I watch it sometimes anyway

          • old_blu

            You already know I go into your web sites and see what has their panties in a wad, I also listen to Fox News for 20 minutes in the morning. (that’s all I can stand)

          • lana ward

            Where is your proof my sites aren’t true? Where is the proof your sites are? ABC, NBC and CBS wouldn’t show how violent those belonging to the union were in Lansing Tuesday. Most places won’t tell you half of what’s really going on. They report what they want you to hear and NO more!!

          • lana ward

            Check out–“Discover The Networks”, you will find out what about everyone on the left believes. Almost anyone you can think of, you can find out information on them. The Huffington Post is trying to shut them down!!

        • MRD1056

          Hey dumb@$$ the natural gas industry is putting coal out of business. Educate yourself!~!!!!!!!

          • lana ward

            Hey dumb ass, Omuslim is putting the coal plants under-on purpose and he won’t let us drill here so we can be self sufficient either. EDUCATE YOURSELF!!

          • MRD1056

            show me the facts? oh thats right you nutjob repukes don’t believe in facts! LOL

          • lana ward

            Omuslim is making coal plants having to shut down. You show me the facts that he isn’t. Under his regulations many businesses have had to shut down. That’s why more and more people are unemployed-numbnut!

          • old_blu

            I’m sure glad you like coal so much cuz that’s what you are getting in your stocking, just for the lies. hahaha

          • lana ward

            What are you getting for your your lies–reindeer poop

          • Lisztman

            Sorry, Lana. It was YOUR accusation that Obama’s policies are shutting down coal. It is YOUR responsibility to back that up. It is not the responsibility of anyone to acknowledge or refute the random claims of every two-bit loony who shows up.

            And I’m calling you a two bit loony. I have sources. Take a poll of those who are posting here.

          • lana ward

            Your a lapdog, you won’t believe anything that makes Omuslim look bad or that makes him a liar, but– You have a Merry Christmas anyway

          • Lisztman

            And a Merry Christmas to you.

        • Lisztman

          Ms. Ward, you have a LOT to learn:
          a) OUR President’s name is OBAMA. Apparently you can’t spell.
          b) Apparently you have no education, because you don’t understand what communism is.
          c) Apparently you spend entirely too much time listening to “entertainment” talk shows and accepting drivel as fact. OUR President is a Christian, not a Muslim.
          d) And were he a Muslim, what difference would that make? I see NO actions indicating he is treating any religious sect in America any different from another. Apparently you don’t read real news for any reason other than to rant.
          e) Why are you on this site? To spread hate? Apparently you’re merely an ultra-right-wing nutjob. No facts. No education. No references. Just slobbering hate. Can you spell “T-R-O-L-L”?

          • foolsdance

            Well put Lisztman. That is exactly what she is.

          • lana ward

            Omuslim is a communist muslim, he is queer, is marrage is a coverup so people won’t know he’s a queer, he hates Christians, and he is destroying my country.–Can you spell N-U-M-B-N-U-T??

          • old_blu

            You know lana when you call your, and my President names you don’t sound so Christian.

            I’m not religous and don’t claim to be but when I was a kid in Sunday school I remember being taught that Jesus didn’t hate anyone, and he loved his adversaries more, you don’t sound that way.

            (are you sure you don’t hate President Obama?)

          • lana ward

            When Obama became President, I said I hope he is treated just like Bush was treated. It’s close, I guess, but Bush LOVES America and did his best to keep us safe, Obama hates America and doesn’t give a rip if we are safe or not. Just watch and see what this traitor does–and he’ll blame it on Bush

          • old_blu

            I really didn’t like Bush’s policies or to much about him, but I still called him PRESIDENT BUSH, not some racist names.

          • lana ward

            Obama is the racist. And the names I call him, are what he is. He IS NOT my President. Everything he stands for is destroying my country. Watch and see. But then like I said, he’ll blame it on Bush

          • Lisztman

            If he’s not your president, then you can damn well move somewhere else. You’re a piss-poor representation of an American.

          • lana ward

            Omuslim is a piss-poor president. He needs to go. I was born here, he wasn’t

          • pbrower2a

            Please find another country.

          • lana ward

            I have. It is the United States of Islam OHitler is turning America into

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

            Bush 2 didn’t love America , if he had he wouldn’t have started to 2 illegal unfinanced wars and cut taxes at the same time. Bush 2 was the one that said “The Constitution is only a piece of paper and I have thrown it out of the window” in 2005. Since you hate this country and the President that the majority of people reelected why don’t you join Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump who said they were going to leave the country if President Obama was reelect. He was reelected so since the Limbaugh and Trump haven’t left yet you have time to join them on their trip leaving the country.

          • lana ward

            I love America. I hate Omuslim for working hard to destroy it. We won’t have to leave America, when Omuslim gets done, it won’t be America!! Seems to me Alix Baldwin said he was going to leave when Bush was President, that was how many years ago??

          • pbrower2a

            I wanted President Obama to be as different from the catastrophic failure George W. Bush was as President so that people would have cause for confidence that would compel them to respect him. Hatemongers like you cannot accept that. Dubya did not build my respect; he tore it down.

            Note well: Dubya may have ‘loved’ America just like a mother with Munchhausen by proxy ‘loves’ her children. It’s the wrong sort of love, one that inevitably brings great harm. Dubya failed to ask the right questions about intelligence that stated that al-Qaeda (whose MO was to use large transportation equipment as suicide devices to cause math death from explosions) was looking into commercial jetliners. He sponsored a bubble economy based upon reckless speculation and bad lending practices that could result only in a 1929-style crash (which we got). He lied to get us into a costly and pointless war.

            Can you accept that Dubya made Barack Obama possible as President? By the way — my investments have done well, and I don’t miss Moammar Qaddafi and Osama bin Laden. I am also glad to see that President Obama has allowed assets transferred to the federal government in Socialism by Receivership to be sold back to the private sector. I’m glad that we see far fewer anti-American protests than we did when Dubya was President.

          • lana ward

            George Bush was a great President!! OHitler will go down in history as the worst!! Even worse than J Carter. At least Carter loves America, I think??

          • Sand_Cat

            Seems to me you’re the one who hates America, and far more vociferously than almost anyone I’ve ever heard. Obviously, you also hate education, intelligence, moderation, and the USA. Don’t know what “your” country is, or where it’s located – obviously in one of the darkest, most backward corners of the world – but in the US, we have things called elections, and when we lose them, we may not be happy, but we don’t seek to overturn their results or make insanely false and defamatory statements without the slightest basis in fact about the winners.
            And by the way, it’s obvious you haven’t the slightest idea about Islam’s precepts, or Christianity’s, for that matter.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ZJ5BBSQIGTUMERPZFALES6HQNY Bill

            You have to be the most stupidest, ignorant, biased fool I have read comments by on this forum. It’s not your country it’s all of ours. What I find ironic about you right wingers especially the christian (which is most of them) ones are so full of hatred that you make the most unfounded and ridiculous statements. You need to grow up because you sound a preteenage girl who can’t have her way so she pouts and says stupid things.

          • lana ward

            Check out what I said, you’ll see it’s true. Obamas’ marriage is a cover up so people won’t know he’s queer.– go to “THE DOWN LOW CLUB” and see, instead of calling me names, smartness!!

          • Lisztman

            I went “there”. No, not the club. Web info. Unsupported accusations. Hardly any sort of proof. SOMEONE has an axe to grind. Hopefully he’ll use it on your neck.

          • Lisztman

            Lana. You can shut up now. Your colors are showing. Go back to North Korea. Or Iran.

          • lana ward

            Go to –The Down Low Club– see for yourself

          • Lisztman

            I went “there”. No, not the club. Web info. Unsupported accusations. Hardly any sort of proof. SOMEONE has an axe to grind. Hopefully he’ll use it on your neck.

          • Lisztman

            Obama is destroying your country? Sorry. I didn’t realize you were from N. Korea.
            You need SEVERE psychiatric help.

          • neece00

            Really Lana, where do you get your facts! You are living under a rock.

          • lana ward

            Go to “The Down Low Club” you’ll see Obama is a muslim queer

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

            It is Mr Ward and he is one of the many trolls that post here to spread hate and discontent.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

          Man, you have to cut back on the Kool Aid!

    • MRD1056

      what planet are you living on dimwit! Give some specific examples of Union Thugs. Unions built the middle class!!!!!!!!!! Read your history book instead of listening to Rush Dimwit and you will learn something. Corporations have been raping the middle class for 30 years, so pull your head out of your @$$.

      • lana ward

        The unions have been raping the middle class, numbnut!! And Omuslim is going to get rid of it completely! So pull your head out of your ass!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Sehler/100000396279499 John Sehler

          Ohhhh Lana I just love it when you talk dirty.

          • lana ward

            That response was not for you, fool! Apparently you didn’t see what was written to me

          • Sand_Cat

            One does not need to see anything beyond your elaborate displays of complete ignorance and bigotry to recognize another one.

            Keep writing, you give us all a laugh while reminding us how freedom, justice,intelligence, and EDUCATION are underrepresented among the people such as yourself and therefor endangered by their policy preferences.

          • lana ward

            Time will tell who’s right, won’t it

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ZJ5BBSQIGTUMERPZFALES6HQNY Bill

            Lana kee up the good work. We all need a good laugh on this forum. What state do you live? I know it can’t be the state of reality.

        • MRD1056

          WOW your right negotiating better pay, better working conditions, better benefits is raping the middle class. Protecting workers with a grievance process is raping I forgot! I think you may be the dumbest Repuke I have ever known. LOL
          Move to Syria then they don’t have evil Unions down there! Damn I feel dumber just typing these messages to you. Do you take great pride in being and uneductated MORON?

          • neece00

            MRD, I understand your frustration, arguing with her is like arguing with a 2 year old, no logic, no common sense, no facts and no brains. I am sure you are asking yourself, “why am I doing this”.

          • old_blu

            Just like having a debate with Romney.

          • lana ward

            Won’t it be great when ALL states are Right to Work states!! You spelled uneducated wrong,MORON

          • Lisztman

            You routinely spell “OBAMA” wrong, Lana. There is nothing inherently wrong with conservatism. Your EXTREMISM, your unsupported and undocumented accusations, and your routine use of pejoratives all show a distinct lack of education.

            Read the following brief. If you have eyes you will probably see your posts reflected herein:
            lairdwilcox[DOT]com/news/hoaxerproject.html

          • pbrower2a

            Great if you are a tycoon, executive, or big landowner in an economy as inequitable as racist South Africa or the Jim Crow South… otherwise the sort of place that people leave if they get the chance. A world of fetid slums, of mass hunger, of a ravaged public sector, law enforcement existing only to enforce suffering… that awaits us if the super-rich have complete dominion over every aspect of your life.

  • lana ward

    Detroit is a disgrace–It’s been run by DEMS FOR YEARS!! Good job the’ve done!!!

  • nobsartist

    The reason DICK snyder got in is because GRANHOLM did a shitty job as governor. DICK snyder is simply doing a shittier job.

    Thats all. Half of the union members voted for DICK snyder anyway.

    I wont watch current tv because granholm is on it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/larry.cummings.146 Larry Cummings

    Snyder kept citing Indiana’s leading edge model and all of the jobs that the state has developed with RTW. Credit for Indiana’s success goes to tax abatement, giveaways and grants, not RTW. Of the 15 companies lauded yesterday be Gov. Daniels, the companies are Angie’s List, ExactTarget, software and food. WTHR, the NBC station has many links to its investigation for the last 2 years about the ficticous jobs–40% of the announced jobs never materialized. But Snyder kept citing Indiana as his model!

  • Budjob

    When are the American men and women that TOIL for a living going to realize that,the republicans view individuals that actually work for a living as enemies.I personally view certain elements within the republican party as having fascist tendencies!

  • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

    The GOP determination to destroy orgamized labor and our social programs is not new. This is the main ideological difference that separates Republicans from Democrats.
    Republicans believe organized labor is tantamount to communism inasmuch as it challenges the right of employers to do as they please. They oppose the minimum wage, paid benefits, and participation in retirement accounts which, in their opinion, should belong strictly to white collar workers and, preferably, the upper echelon.
    Along the same lines, they consider programs like Social Security, MEDICARE and MEDICAID evil examples of socialism and are determined to destroy them, either by introducing legislation like the 2003 Part D “reform” to make them insolvent, or by defunding them.
    Republicans do not hesitate to claim class warfare when someone challenges the status quo, but fail to realize that their entire agenda is based on class warfare and the accumulation of wealth and power by the top 2% of Americans at the expense of the remaining 98%.
    Their effort are dangerous, not only because if they succeed the USA will become a plutocracy, but because sooner or later our complacent masses will wake up and what will happen then is not going to be pretty.

    • montanabill

      Unions were created when single workers had little recourse against bosses. Then it got completely turned when companies found they had little recourse against outlandish union demands. The Continental Baking Company is only the latest in a line of companies forced to flee or liquidate because the cost and demands of labor became to excessive. Our railroads, auto industry, steel production, clothing, furniture manufacturing and more all declined or disappeared because of excessive union rules and demands. There is still a place for unions in our society, but they must offer a more balanced platform. If they cannot compete with right-to-work by convincing both workers and employers that they offer a win-win situation, then they will surely whither away like the old style social clubs that used to be major factor in American life.

      The rest of your post is left wing scare talk with absolutely no basis in reality.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

        The Continental Baking Company went away because a holding company, like Bain Capital, bought it with the intent of raping it. And they did.

        • onedonewong

          Unions have killd far more businesses than bad management ever could

          • Lisztman

            And, onedonewong, I’m SURE you have statistics to back up that charge… Or did you make that up based on your opinions?

          • onedonewong

            Sure do

          • Lisztman

            Great! Now tell us where we can find them. Otherwise you’re making them up.

        • montanabill

          Ask yourself what is the purpose of buying a successful company with the intention 0f ‘raping it’. Short term profit is no substitute for long term profit. To my knowledge, Bain Capital never bought a company without putting money in to it in an effort to try to save it. If the sole objective was to sell the parts, why bother to put money into it?

          Employees are not prevented from joining unions where shops are in operation. If they see a benefit to joining, they will. If not, they won’t.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

        Montana, your post is vintage right wing rhetoric used to justify the elimination of workers rights. The anti-labor legislation that is being passed in Michigan goes well beyond what should be expected from a democratic society. Legislation that stipulates that it can not be overturned by popular vote belongs in totalitarian countries, not the USA. What is happening in the USA is not an innocent attempt to restore corporate solvency, if that was the case legislation would be passed putting caps on executive earnings, the intent is to advance far right ideology to the point that the rights of the middle class are being undermined, with no recourse left to overturn the damage done.
        I participated in several bargaining unit negotiations on behalf of the corporation I worked for. I never saw the outlandish demands you mention in your post. Union workers usually demanded pay raises in the 10% range, knowing they were going to get a lot less, and benefits similar to those extended to salaried employees. They usually settled for about half of what they asked for, and were not allowed to join the retirement and 401k plan available to salaried employees. We did give them a thrift plan, but it paled in comparison to the 100% matching and bonuses that management enjoyed.
        The main reason so many American companies have gone under is because of poor management decisions, lousy investments, foreign competition, and the exhorbitant cost of healthcare in the USA.

        • Lisztman

          Sorry, Dominick — in your list of “main reasons” — you left out the most recent biggie: the Vulture Capitalists who purchase a company, often in a weak position, often belonging to private owners wishing to retire; who then sell profitable assets at profit; who then lay off a bunch of remaining workers; and who ultimately declare bankruptcy (to the detriment of responsible creditors), thus washing their hands of the whole dirty mess. While they strut to the bank.

          • gorgegirl

            You mean like BAIN CAPITAL?

          • Lisztman

            Te-hee. Now, did I say that? [snicker]

        • montanabill

          The attempt to excuse the excesses of unions will never fly. You must add that to the reasons why American companies have gone under, as well as, the rest.
          As a company that does business in the healthcare industry, I can tell you that the biggest driver of increased cost is ‘government’. It is mostly party independent, but whenever government sets out to ‘help lower costs’, costs increase dramatically because of the new requirements.

      • S.J. Jolly

        “The Continental Baking Company is only the latest in a line of companies forced to flee or liquidate because the cost and demands of labor became to excessive.” HA !
        Continental Baking Company was heavily burdened with debt, and it’s doubtful that even good management could have save it, something the company clearly lacked. The unions, quite contrary to your “excessive demands” claim, accepted cut after cut in their pay and benefits; they drew the line when the company management awarded themselves big bonuses. Perhaps the real problem was that the company employees had some self respect?

    • onedonewong

      Dem’s have done a far far better job of making them insolvent by adding in millions of illegals and people who have NEVER contributed to SS and Medicare and Medicaid roles

      • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

        Oh please. The “illegals” excuse to hide programmatic inefficiencies and ideological games is getting old at a time when illegal immigrant is almost non-existent and almost a million Latinos have left voluntarily as a result of improving economic conditions in Mexico, our Great Recession, and enforcement of immigration laws.

        • onedonewong

          20 Million illegals in this country and the only folks contending any have left is PEW> I cross the Mexican border all the time and I have never met anyone from the Pew Foundation counting heads.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/HFYZP2APYPP7H6PWS2ZDQRWFEQ Hillbilly

            Who is PEW? There are many reputable sources that have shown the figures that shows President Obama has deported more illegal aliens than the last 3 presidents but since you seem to feel you been done wrong you won’t be the truth just what you see on Fox not News and what people like Rush the mouth Limbaugh has to say. How much dope do you bring back from Mexico on your many trips across the Mexican border?

          • onedonewong

            Name one. Any that you would cite always use the term “the administration”. Anyone who would belive anything barak and Napalatan says is a fool

      • Lisztman

        @Onedonewong: As I’ve noted earlier — PLEASE show your data and sources. Your unfounded accusation reeks of right wing rhetoric, to wit:

        Across the last decades (yes, decades, not just the last four years) there have been amnesty programs and such for “illegals”, and not just under Democratic administrations. In the meantime, despite protests to the contrary, the deportation of illegals under Pres. Obama is, per month, 1.5 times the rate under Pres. GW Bush. Multiple sources, here’s one:

        politifact[DOT]com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/10/american-principles-action/has-barack-obama-deported-more-people-any-other-pr/

        And your rant assumes that those “millions of illegals” are 65+ and thus instantly receiving SSI and Medicare. (I don’t have the data. If you have data on Medicaid, PLEASE support your argument.) And if you’ve had your bed made in a hotel room, you KNOW that those illegals aren’t 65 years old. I’d like to know how, if they’re illegal, they manage to receive Medicaid benefits.

        More rants from the right, undocumented, unsupported. False claims. If you wish any credibility at all, you’ll do a little less foot-stomping and a little more honest research.

        • onedonewong

          Your post reeks of a union thug with an inability to read or do any research.
          Have we had amnesty?? You bet but it was CONGRESS that passed the law and signed by a president. We have never have had a unilateral decision to have amnesty, Barak doesn’t have the constitutional authority to approve. No different than when he took bondholders $$ and gave it to the unions at GM and Chrysler.
          Polifact is HARDLY an unbiased source, I’m suprised you didn’t quote LaRaza data. Polifact is the same site that says barak created 2 million jobs when there has been NO Net increase in employment.
          The millions of illegals under barak are drawing food stamps, unemployment ins, welfare sec 8 housing and either medicaid or medicare in addition to SS. Barak has HHS secretary meeting monthly with Mexican officials revising policies so that ever more illegals qualify for benefits..
          We have over 23 Million americans unemployed they should be making beds in hotels, washing windows or emptying bed pans rather than drawing 2 years of UI.
          How do they qualify?? Seriously?? Clinton orchestrated the SS medicare and medicaid deal his first 2 years in office
          If you want to appear as some what intelligent you’ll quit listening to the State Run Media and the Dem talking points and read some UNBIASED newspapers. I;m sure they have a library where you live go visit one rather than MSNBC

          • Lisztman

            Excuse me. You’re full of crap.

            I provided you one source for my data. I don’t care that you don’t like that one. As I noted in the same statement, there are MANY sources on the Internet that provide the same data. I selected one.
            You will note that you have yet to provide ANY source from ANYWHERE that supports your allegations. Despite my request for same. Why? Because you’re full of crap, you’re propagating lies, and you have zero facts, zero data, zero sources to quote. IOW, you’re making up your allegations.
            Until you learn anything VAGUELY resembling normal debate technique, you’re going to be taken for what you apparently are — an uneducated, brainwashed, mouthpiece for the radical right.

            And you’re an a**hole as well. “Union thug” my foot. I have never been a member of a union. I have worked for 38 years as a professional. Until my retirement last year my wife and I were in the top 2% or so family income, she also in a “professional” (as opposed to hourly) capacity. Contributing to society. The fact that I don’t equate unions to theft is beside the point. You still haven’t provided any facts. Or sources for your data. If I wanted, I could provide multiple sources to counter every one of the “arguments” you’ve made.

            Sorry. That’s not how it works. If you choose to make a point, you have to back it up. It is not allowed to produce a statement (or a lie, in your case) and then insist that everyone else prove that your statement is a lie. Get a life. And an education. And then go back to rubbing your feel-good parts while watching Fox News.

  • latebloomingrandma

    This what happens when a few people have a humongous amount of money and use it to wield power, presumably behind the scenes. The Koch brothers’ tentacles reach everywhere. Read up on ALEC’s agenda, funded by Koch money. It’s pretty scary and it’s coming to pass. The re-election of Obama threw a monkey wrench into their plans, but I understand they are regrouping. Stay tuned to what’s up their sleeves to turn our county into a plutocracy. We have to get Citizens’ United overturned with a Constitutional amendment. They “own” too many politicians.

    • neece00

      I have read up on Alec and it is scary. I am so glad that the re-election of Barack put a monkey wrench in their plan but as you say, they are re-grouping and we have to be ready for them.

      • 9BallPro

        Sounds like a perfect reason to tax people making more than $10 million/yr at a rate of 90%. They have way to much money to influence policy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/thomasknight.glover Thomas Knight Glover

      people pay attention to ” latebloomingrandma ‘, for this is the truth. The old phrase ” money talks, nobody walks” is reborn within the confines of the Kochpublican party.The republican party in Washington owes its fealty to Grover Norquist [ whose influence is funded by the Koch bros.} , a man who holds no elected office ,and yet is able to convince a majority of Republicans to sign a ” no tax increase ,for ay reason ” pledge .Our country is slowly , but surely headed towards an industrialist dictatorship, where the average middle class worker will have no say over his/her quality of life , and whose vote will be determined by the owner they work for. Farfetched? guess again.

    • onedonewong

      The fact that the vast MAJORITY of taxpayers in the state were FOR the bill doesn’t seem to bother you???The union had their initative on the ballot and it LOST by 15%

      • Lisztman

        If anyone was for, or against, the bill, then WHY was it rushed through, without “normal” procedures and debate, during a lame-duck session (I presume you understand the term)?

        • onedonewong

          It wasn’t “rushed”. The Republicans and the majority of the states voters realized after the ballot initative failed by 15% that the pubic wanted an end to the union goons

  • http://profiles.google.com/k4b6lane KENNETH LANE

    Yet another state I cannot visit added to my list of Republican controlled RED states. It’s a shame for we love vacationing there but will not in the future. Goodbye Red State folks–
    Killing off our unions is death for America–pure and evil!

  • foolsdance

    Lana – Wow, you are pathetic! Coal is a dying industry, as well it should be. It is the second most dangerous profession in the nation, there is no such thing as ‘clean’ coal… get an education, will you?

    • lana ward

      The coal industry is what keeps us alive, idiot!

      • Sand_Cat

        Pot calling the kettle black.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/AO5XGV65KYB5J75FJVYGKPHZOU L. Roy

    In my experience “Right to Work” is really “Fright to Work”

  • sunmusing

    I hope everyone understands who our “domestic enemies” are…the Koch boys are the poster boys of anti-American ideas…they learned from their Dad…It is one thing to celebrate the success of the rich and wealthy, but when they turn their wealth against the rest of us, well, the war is ON…the police forces around this country are going to be hard pressed to choose sides…Michigan, it seems, has not included the police and fireman unions….hmmmm…Last summer showed us what will happen if ordinary folks try to voice their discontent…privatizing government institutions is a bad thing…private police force for the Kochs is a bad thing…our way of life is in more danger from the wingers than from any foreign source…

    • http://www.facebook.com/fefe.fox.3 FeFe Fox

      KOCH BROTHERS OWN THIS COUNTRY

  • howa4x

    They are doing a redo of what made the republican party loose in a national election. If it was only one issue they could possibly get away with it, but they want to go down the Murdoch path that was soundly ejected. They don’t realize that most young women get their health care from plannned parenthood not just contraception. So if you want to get young people off the sidelines in a gubenatorial election then just take away one of their vital services. They will jump off but not in favor of the ones that hurt them. The problem with republicans in office is they always go too far. They let their ideology lead their thinking and ignore realities on the ground like demographics. Now once again the despised Koch bros are pushing the right to work legislation. They are not doing this out of goodness, their agenda is to get workers get less salary and benefits. Both are worth 31 billion but that just dosen’t seem enough. They seem to be mentally ill since their policies are to drive workers down into the ground with their families. This is why polls now show more favor taxes raised on the rich than ever before. It is because of their mean spirited agenda. The republicans will find their doom defending these creatains and their war against the middleclass
    Every dog has their day and in Michigan it is comming in 2 yrs

  • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

    Your post is vintage right wing rhetoric used to justify the elimination of workers rights. The anti-labor legislation that is being passed in Michigan goes well beyond what should be expected from a democratic society. Legislation that stipulates that it can not be overturned by popular vote belongs in totalitarian countries, not the USA. What is happening in the USA is not an innocent attempt to restore corporate solvency, if that was the case legislation would be passed putting caps on executive earnings, the intent is to advance far right ideology to the point that the rights of the middle class are being undermined, with no recourse left to overturn the damage done.
    I participated in several bargaining unit negotiations on behalf of the corporation I worked for. I never saw the outlandish demands you mention in your post. Union workers usually demanded pay raises in the 10% range, knowing they were going to get a lot less, and benefits similar to those extended to salaried employees. They usually settled for about half of what they asked for, and were not allowed to join the retirement and 401k plan available to salaried employees. We did give them a thrift plan, but it paled in comparison to the 100% matching and bonuses that management enjoyed.
    The main reason so many American companies have gone under is because of poor management decisions, lousy investments, foreign competition, and the exhorbitant cost of healthcare in the USA.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4HKCTSVHCQJCJUU2VYCERLWWDE Richie T

      The laws in this country are not determined by popular vote.
      It’s not a Democracy, ruled by popular vote, It’s a Republic. The laws are based on, at least they’re supposed to be, om the Constitution.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4HKCTSVHCQJCJUU2VYCERLWWDE Richie T

    United State President, max 8 years in office. Congress, unlimited. At this point, in the history of this country, 95 members of Congress have been in office more then 36 years.

    #2 in the list, is still in office.
    John Dingell Member of the House for over 57 years.
    I’m 55, he was a member two years before I was even Born.
    14 members in that list are still members of Congress
    How anyone can actually believe they have a clue what it’s like to try to survive in the disaster they’ve turned this country into, and keeps putting them back in office, is totally beyond me.
    A person screw’s up at work, you don’t fire them why SHOULD they stop?

  • sleeprn01

    Dear Montanabill, You seem to be a little misinformed. The unions gave Continental Bakery huge concessions to keep the bakery open, the bakery was already in bankruptcy and was owned by a vulture capitalist company. The bakery went out of business because of poor management and a failure to update their product line to meet contemporary tastes. The railroads, steel and auto industries all had problems, not from unions, but once again poor management, failure to modernize, offering poor products or poor service, failure to see up-coming trends and yes in some cases over regulation, especially in the case of the railroads. With respect to furniture and clothing American companies can’t compete on price when sweat shops in Thailand, India,and China where the companies are not even paying their workers a living wage and the workers are working in horrid conditions. Thailand has recently had their own equivalence of our own “Triangle Shirt Waist Fire” , where many workers were burned to death because exit doors and windows were locked and combustible materials were allowed to accumulate. Our companies needed to compete on quality not quantity and short term profit instead of long term gain. In the case of both clothing manufacturing and furniture manufacturing we have met the enemy and it is us. We as Americans, don’t care about quality, just give us cheap junk from Wal-Mart. Furniture companies like Kittinger and Hinkel-Harris both of whom made excellent furniture designed and made to last for years out of solid wood and fine veneers. I do not know if either of these companies were unionized however it was difficult for them to compete with furniture that is made from pressed wood and contact paper and designed to last a couple of years, maybe. Yes these 2 manufactures made extremely fine quality furniture that was expensive, however there were other mid-grade furniture manufactures who also made quality solid wood furniture like Crescent and Pennsylvania House that their business’ were negatively impacted by foreign manufactures. However, we are not the first country to encounter these difficulties. The Swiss watch industry was decimated by cheap quartz watches from Japan and China. The Swiss watch industry has rebounded not by trying to out cheap foreign competition but by manufacturing fine mechanical watches, which the Swiss are now known for. In Italy it’s the same thing with clothes and shoes, they didn’t try to out cheap foreign competition, but are know for their quality shoes and suits. In summary it’s not the unions fault that they tried to get living wages for tjier employees, safety standards passed, good health insurance, and job security; many of these companies have failed because of management’s failure to see new trends, capitalize on their strengths, and build customer loyalty. Many of our US companies went for short term profits today and bankruptcy in the future.

    I do like Michigan’s idea to legalize the right to carry weapons on school property, I think as hunters are fond of saying, it will thin the herd.

  • jstsyn

    I won’t be going to Michigan any time soon.

    • lana ward

      Why? We’ll have many jobs here soon!! And MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

      • jstsyn

        Part time jobs with low pay and no benefits. Full time jobs that hand out applications for gov assistance and food stamps. Oh boy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rick.satkowiak Rick Satkowiak

    With the recent developments in Lansing, it is time to start planning what it is going to take to unseat those that have voted for the legislation that will undoubtedly have a negative effect on all Michiganders. I have started a Facebook group called The 2014 Project to brainstorm ideas on what we will need to do. For the time being this group will be “secret” (by Facebook standards). Friend me and I will add you. If you know of people that should be here please add them. I see this as a place to brainstorm, not blamestorm, so lets keep it positive and see where it goes.

  • bchrista

    Hey montana bill I come from a right to work state, Florida and I remember when I was working with my tools as a carpenter the Union bargined a wage scale for me of $12.00 an hour while at the same time open shop or scab carpenters were earning beween $6.00 and $Seven dollars an hour, our
    Union laborers were earning more than open shop people and the owners were still charging to build structures the same amount as if you were earning $20.00 an hour for Union or open shop the only different being if they could get an open shop crew to do the work they would almost double what they banked, as has been the case through out life if they are not obligated by law they won’t pay a dime more than they have to, and the crime is without Unions they can treat you like a piece of shit and you have no recourse. During this same time Cuban companies started cropping up and hiring workers with little or no experence in construction at $350 an hour, the reason they were able to do this was because they hired only Cubans that came over on the Mariel Boatlift and had little or no knowledge of the English Language and were not aware of our laws I know this first hand because I was hired by one of these companies because I was a layout man and the Cubans hadn’t mastered that part of the trade but the were very slick they gave me a helper a young Panamaion boy, a very intelligent one and he studied how I did things for six months and when they felt that he was ready I was let go because I was paid $10.00 dollars an hour and the kid was paid $3.50 an hour. so all you people that praise the Right To Work law heed this warning company owners will abuse the law and pay you peanuts and they may pay a foreman slightly a little more to keep you inline while they make insane profits and for all of you that defend the 1% how do you think they got that way off the backs of the working man and Right To Work does that for them, they didn’t earn their money they stole it from the workers. Oh I almost forgot the Cuban bosses kept their men inline by threatening to get them deported if they got out of line, they did one good thing, in America Union Carpenters have a habit putting a tree on the roof of a finished structure and the company might give a small party beer and sandwichs, the Cuban bosses would give a
    feast to the men of a whole roast pork Black Beans and Rice, Yuca a Salad and all the Beer they could consume at the time, I felt was a poor excuse for all the money they cheated them out of hell minimum wage paid better than that. So can anyone imagine what this country would be like without Unions all together. I shudder at the thought.

  • bchrista

    Domnick people like onedonewong have their heads so far up coroporations ass they can’t see the forest for the trees, I honestly believe these people are on the corporations payroll and their only job is to come up with the shit they write in order to cause confusion, they can’t really be that stupid or that far out of touch with what is going on I mean the Rich, the Institutions, the Corporations, Wall Street, Banks, and all the others that are raping the country and reducing the middle class tax payer are nolonger hiding what they are doing to the country. The greatest thing that ever happened to this country was the day Unions came into being, that was the day the working man got off his knees and gained some respect. The reason big money fights Unions is they are forced to pay a decent wage, a Union worker receives a decent salary, medical coverage, Holiday pay and the day off, if he has to work on that day he receives time and a half for that day, over forty hours tme and a half and f he chooses he can pay extra to include his family on his medical coverage, now take the average person that’s not a Union member he gets paid less that the prevailing wage performed by the Union worker, no medical insurance, straight time pay for forty plus hours in fact he can work 60 – 70 – or even 100 hours for straight pay who makes out there, once again money that the Rich worked hard for and we are trying take away from them if you ask people like onedonewong they figure that if a company or any other enity wants to put their foot on your back and keep you down in the slums well thats a good thing and the poor should not complain, i mean the Constitution only applies to the Rich and the hell with the rest of us if we don’t have our hands in the pocket of the Rich, well that’s tough shit and if we dare complain well there’s always onedonewong and his ilk to write in the National Memo about what a sorry lot we are for askng for our fair share, I mean how dare us. After the 1% worked so hard to earn their billions.

  • bchrista

    Boy onedonewongcontinues to step in itevery time he opens his mouth ask any owner who would he rather have working for him an illegal or a native american and you’ll find he’ll take an illegal over the american, they find them to be more dependable, harder worker, and more honest, ask any employer not to mention that work for less, so there onedonewong put that in your pipe and smoke it. That shows how well you research your subjects.

  • bchrista

    Litzman, I am on your side, I am latin American and can answer your question, the illegals that work in this country don’t dare go to a regular hospital or clinic for fear of being caught and deported, also remember that Cubans have a free pass to come here, but to answer your question there are at least in Florida clinics that provide medical services to these people at a much lower price and manned by some of the finest doctors there are, the only reason they can’t pass the medical exam is because of the language barrier, our government has finally realized this and has made provisions to allow them to practise here with certain restrictions until they meet certain critiera, Cuba has always been known for turning out some of the finest physicians in the world, and illegals who mostly come from latin countries are the largest group among them and most come from warm climates settle in Florida, then New York, New Jersey and Texas, and again employers love them because they are hard workers, they don’t steal because other latinos would punish them.

  • bchrista

    Onedonewong, I caught you in another lie, shame, shame, how many Americans do you think would lower themselves to do the jobs that illegals do, I agree with you that Americans could be doing the jobs that illegals do but you have one problem go tell any American to go change sheets, change bed pans, wash windows, cut lawns or, any of the other medial jobs available and all of a sudden they become sick or they flat out tell you to go kiss their ass they won’t stoop that low and this is no newspaper or Demo bullshit this is fact you can see it everyday in real life, this has been discussed for years americans rather collect SS that work at some medial job and if you have enough balls go snatch up a few that you know and tell them to go get one of those jobs and see how quick they put your ass in a hospital. The only thing illegals receive from the United States goverment is mecical attenton and they do that by crossing the border and going to an american hospital. as far as getting welfare, medicare, medicaid, and Social Security your way off base. If an illegal comes here an they have a child while being on American soil that child is an instant American citizen and intitled to all amenities provided american their parents citizens cannot claim any of the above mentioned amenities and they don’t for fear of being caught and deported and right now the US government is grappling with this problemwe have deported quite a few illegals and now we are trying to figure out what to do with the children born to these illegals because they can’t be legally deported because they are legal American citizens lie #2 illegals have to but drivers licence and fake SS cards and if they get caught it’s jail time and deportation and then it’s that much harder to reenter the US to obtain a legal Visa, Wong why don’t you go sit on the side lines andstudy up on the truth and then come back when you have facts that meet the occasion so you can quote truths and people will respect what you have to say, right now your batting zero and that’s bad usually other pundits have at least one or two real comments all except Lana Ward and she’s never right.

  • bchrista

    Hey lana ward I don’t if you are a he/she I really don’t give a fuck the only thing I wish I could do is throw your ass in a coal mine for a year and then let the world hear you tell them how great it was to have worked in a coal mine and that you would mind doing another year in that touberculoses causing element. ask anyone who has to endure that cancer causing environment maybe that’s one way to get rid of your evil spouting ass.

  • bchrista

    I know I am fooling myself but I kep hoping that somebody of importance in Washington starts reading these posts and realizes that something needs to be done before the country get to the point where there is no hope of righting the ship before it sinks we talk a lot here but the bottom line is if something isn ‘t done to make some corrections the future doesn’t look too good. What good is money if there is nothing to spend it on so the Rich will have to move overseas to spend their ill gained money because if there is nothing manufactered here and people can’t live in poverty the land will dry up and blow away, Mexico better watch out it might find imigration in reverse as Americans start heading South a head of the impending problems here, I realize Mexico is a country with vast areas of deserts how ever I am sure American engeneuity can turn those areas into fertile lands to live on and make sure no rich republican can eversettle there to fuck up the area. If there is mass migration there who will do the work in America not the lazy Republicans or the Tea Party.

  • Stuart

    The Tea Party is an incipient fascist movement, like Golden Dawn in Greece, Fidesz in Hungary, Isborsk Club in Russia, the National Front in France, and others. The Christian Rick Joyner, who has called for a U.S. military coup, is just the tip of the iceberg here.

    The fascists are having problems at the moment nationally, but they are burrowing away in the states — Michigan, Wisconsin, Kansas, the Confederate South and others. ALEC already knows this. Don’t take your eyes off state-level politics.

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