NRA vs. Common Sense

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NRA vs. Common Sense

December 26th, 2012 7:25 am Clarence Page

When the National Rifle Association promised “meaningful contributions” to prevent another massacre like the recent horror in Newtown, Conn., I didn’t expect much, but I hoped for more than what we got.

After a mentally ill gunman killed 20 children and seven adults, including himself, a remorseful public has been jerked alert once again to the need for some sensible gun reforms.

I had hoped NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre might try for a middle ground with some common-sense reforms on which gun owners and non-owners tend to agree — like measures that can help keep guns out of the hands of the mentally or criminally unfit.

But, no, LaPierre hunkered down. His “meaningful contributions” sounded less concerned with promoting gun safety than promoting gun sales.

The firearms trade business must have been delighted. The guns-and-ammunition industry has contributed between $14.7 million and $38.9 million to the NRA’s corporate-giving campaign since 2005, according to a report last year by the Violence Policy Center, a gun-control advocacy nonprofit. The trade appears to be getting its money’s worth.

LaPierre’s big news: He called for armed guards and armed schoolteachers in all of our schools. My initial thought: As soon as some teacher’s gun is stolen by a rambunctious student, that’ll be the end of that idea.

But, no, arming guards or even teachers is not a totally goofy idea. It’s not very original, either. “Across the country, some 23,200 schools — about one-third of all public schools — had armed security staff in the 2009-10 school year, the most recent year for which data are available,” The New York Times reports. Most are high schools in troubled areas, although a K-12 school in rural Harrold, TX, has allowed teachers to carry concealed weapons since 2007, after proper training. Lawmakers in at least six other states are considering similar policies, according to news reports.

But armed guards are not the panacea that many imagine they might be. Columbine High School in Colorado, for example, had an armed guard on duty during the murderous rampage of two students. He even engaged in a shootout with one of them, according to the official report on the tragedy. But he failed to stop either of the two teens before police arrived and they had killed themselves.

And Virginia Tech’s campus police had their own trained SWAT team. Yet they, too, failed to stop a student before he killed 33 in 2007, including himself.

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Tags: clarence page, gun control, newtown, NRA, Sandy Hook Elementary school shooting, Wayne LaPierre

http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

The efforts being made by the NRA to divert attention from the tools being used to slaughter people throughout the USA every single day, including emphasis on improved mental care (from the opponents of ACA no less), God in the schools and reminders that our focus should be on the victims rather than the tools used to kill them are examples of how far we are willing to go to make an extra dollar.
What is happening in the USA has nothing to do with the Second Amendment, Amendments are changes and there is nothing that preclude us from making new ones to reflect our current values, circumstances and priorities. We are consumed by paranoia and greed, and the main beneficiaries of those human weaknesses don’t hesitate to exploit them to enrich themselves or consolidate power.
It doesn’t matter if the men in Rochester, Newtown, Aurora, Virginia Tech, the Sikh Temple, Tucson, Columbine and all the other places were mentally ill, distraught or consumed by fears, the bottom line is that had they not had access to semi-automatic weapons and high capacity magazines those tragedies would not have taken place. At least not to the extent they did.

RSDrake

Well said. I am an NRA Member only because it is a requirement to belong to my Firearms Range. I would prefer to not be a member. It is another indication of how far the tentacles of the NRA reach. There are a significant number of members who adopt the “They will take my gun out of my cold dead hands” (Charlton Heston) philosophy.

Annemb

I, for one, appreciate your honesty. Have you seen Michael Moore’s “Bowling for Columbine”? In the film he attempts to interview Charlton Heston…

Blessings be upon you and your family during this season and in the new year.

idamag

Anne, I have that film. After watching Charlton Heston in that film, I came to the conclusion that the NRA was being led by a person with dementia.

Annemb

Brilliant!! I think you hit the nail on the head, too.

Blessings…
RSDrake

I think it still is ….

RSDrake

Anne, Yes, I’ve seen it. It was hysterical when he applied for a checking account in a bank and walked out with promotion … a gun!

Michael can go overboard, but sometimes that is necessary to jar the people in charge into productive dialogue and action. So far, that has not happened. Well, I say that, but our legislators have come up with proposed legislation in Virginia that would require teachers to be armed … call me crazy, but I think that is a very bad idea!

Bob

Annemb

An excellent post!

I certainly don’t/won’t call you “crazy” regarding Virginia’s proposed legislation that would require teachers to be armed. You are very sane indeed.

Teachers are in their profession to teach; children/students are in school to learn. Neither want to be in school to witness a “gunfight at OK corral.” I’m a public school child except for seminary, and so are my children.

I, for one, am grateful that my children are grown (50, 49 and 46) and that I have no grandchildren. However this doesn’t keep me from being concerned about other children and teachers, because I am deeply concerned.

Blessings be upon you, your family during this season and in the new year.
Happy2bback

A good teacher does not sit at their desk They roam the classroom and interact with their students. To think that arming a teacher would solve a problem such as this is truly crazy the odds are the teacher would not even be close to the gun when the offender walked in shooting. Most teachers I know have little storage space in their desks so locking it would be a impossible and who wants a unlocked weapon around children? What good would it do anyway split second decisions are required law enforcement is required to practice regularly do we have to add that to are already taxed teachers who most do not end their day at the final bell ring each day.
Annemb

True! True! True … on all counts. Thanks so much for your insight into the situation.

LaPierre has numerous issues that need to be attended to before long…

http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

micael moor is a raving socialist idiot. He makes millions off his propaganda lies and you stupid liberals suck it up like it was candy.

Annemb

Michael Moore has FACTS to back up his films.
idamag

Michael Moore is an excellent researcher.
Annemb

You’re absolutely correct!

Blessings…
idamag

richard, before you call someone a liar, you should be prepared to back it up with facts, time, date, place and quotation.

Raleigh Daniel Stout

Thank you for sharing. I would be interested in hearing your personal proposals for tackling the mass shootings problem because I have doubts that the NRA and LaPierre are considering your ideas.
progressiveandproud

If you had to be a member of a pedophile group to belong to your firearms range, would you still belong? By belonging to the NRA, you support their work. Either drop your membership or admit you you’re not too terribly troubled by NRA actions.

RSDrake

I am more troubled by Congressional inaction than I am by the NRA. You can do more good to change an organization when you are inside.

Your analogy is a stretch ….

http://www.facebook.com/johnny.thomas.52035 Johnny Thomas

RS I totally agree with you it has been a for sale sign for a long time and now people getting certified in that area and making a lot of money .A gun safty course runs an average of 70.00 dollars to get a permit providing at least ten at time in one hour that is pretty fair wages and they are not helping with us to keep our rights the money is like congress and the rich it goes in their pockets .Remember if you are dismissed from armed forces with any neg problems you do not have to do the course to get a permit and if you are in your home or business you do not have to have permit we are still America so far but loosing to the social republic fast in many green back way’s .

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

It is foolish to think you can prevent murders by more laws that won’t be obeyed. No society ever has been able to prevent criminals from getting all the firearms they ever wanted. Even Hitler could not prevent the Warsaw uprising from getting arms. Do you intent to outdo Hitler? Attempting to restrict firearms is evil, and would destroy the whole concept of a republic, of and by the people. For in a real republic, it is not the people who are restricted, but the police and the military. And you are wrong about being able to lessen the extent of the tragedies by laws. Tim McVeigh only needed garden fertilizer and household cleaners. If you think making things illegal will help, that is foolish. The more you make things illegal, the more tragedies there will be, and you will only make them get worse and worse.

mah101

That is a ridiculous argument. By this same logic we should not need traffic laws to govern how we drive because some people won’t follow them. You could extend the argument to any law.

I would prefer to see you offer some solutions, rather than retreat to the safety of “it won’t work because some people will do bad things.”
http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

The United States is not engaged in a civil war or a war of oppression. Yes, some of the people in the Warsaw ghettos managed to get arms, partisans throughout Europe also managed to get arms to defend themselves against a megalomaniac and those who supported him and, yes, people in countries that are in the midst of a civil war, such as Syria, manage to get guns to defend themselves. In countries like Mexico and Colombia drug cartels are sold arms to fight each and law officers. Sometimes, they get their arms from Russia, sometimes from the United States or France. In all cases, they get them from countries with a robust arms industry that does not hesitate to profit off the misery of others.
Instead of comparing ourselves with countries beset by violence, whether it is war, political assassinations or violent crime, shouldn’t we compare ourselves with societies where violence is a rarety and where, when it does happen, the citizenry does not hesitate to take steps to end it.
Nothing is impossible when a person or the population of a country is determined to change course. The reason this problem will not be solved for many years to come is because most Americans love their guns. It is an integral part of our culture and no politician will ever attempt to ban them in their entirety.
With that in mind, the best we can hope for is banning assault weapons, semi-automatic weapons and high capacity magazines. The most difficult part, however, will be enforcing the ban. Our current laws, including the Brady Act, are so weak and have so many loopholes that they are not worth the paper they are printed on. Gun dealers, some without a license, sell weapons designed for warfare freely and with total impunity. Maybe Sandy Hook will change that, but I doubt it.

lincoln_george

Realize that people like you and I may have a more realistic view as to the mind of a sound individuals, and others basically deal in nonsense. To be blind to the truth about the use of a mechanism such as a gun makes me very afraid and annoyed. The 2nd amendment will not protect schools from gun violence as long as gun violence surrounds our communities. Very soon after the Newtown shooting a prominent Wall Street financier began selling off his company’s interest in a gun manufacturere, because the shootings obviously were too close to home. That may be what it takes for those like senior members of the NRA to see the light.

RSDrake

Lincoln,

You may be giving too much credit tot the Wall Street financier. As soon as Obama was re-elected, Smith and Wesson stock soared up 400% and Ruger went up 800%. Now with the threat of controls, they are selling off. I think money is the motivator, not a civil conscience?

idamag

Always wrong, dumbass, why don’t we eliminate all the laws as people break them?
marid

And your suggestion for stopping the three 911s we have in our country every year is what? Your strawman analogies are bogus and based upon rhetoric rather than fact. Please advance the dialougue with facts not myths. The Hitler meme has made the rounds, the Timmy McVlegend has been around the block, the specious assertion that we cannot lessen violence with laws flies in the face of drunk driving laws and the NRAs own gun safety classes, why the classes if they are so safe? The gun Utopias of Switzerland and Isreal have been found to have very strict and ongoing registration and training requirements. Your understanding of a Republic came from where? Whiney LaPeires dreams? Oh and don’t bring up the Australian lunacy passed around among the wingnuts, that one has been decrapped too many times. Study after study has shown that a gun in the home endangers the owner, their families, and aquaintances and increases the likelyhood of suicide by guns.

Facts are facts and the fact is we kill more of our own people with guns than any but some poor countries suffering from a completely dysfunctional govt. like Somalia and Yemen. Any common sense suggestions for the good of all? Until we admit we have a problem, we can’t address it. I would assume the near 10,000 dead Americans a year might be a clue to a problem.

http://profile.yahoo.com/BMCKQTKZD5HGDX6BU5PSQLGTUY noslack

you can do just as much killing with any fire arm as you can with a semi-auto firearm and yes its a firearm untill you use it like a weapon.the only way your going to take my fireaarms away from me is from my dead cold fingers.

johninPCFL

The difference is that when you stop to reload you can be disarmed, as many have been. If you stop every minute because you have a 30-round magazine, the damage is far greater than every few seconds.

No one is trying to take away your legally obtained firearms that you use when properly trained. Limiting your ability to murder dozens without recourse is what’s desired. Why is it that the crazies gang together this way? Why do you desire to lose your rights?

Inthenameofliberty

May I intereject that I believe that there is the fear, that allowing one type of firearm to be taken away, will then lead to all firearms being taken away.
I am not a fan of semi-automatic weapons.
Problem is that some fanatics that are crazed, anti-gun will stop at nothing to take steps to eliminate all guns.
Because that has worked just SO well throughout history……..

johninPCFL

Any type of banned firearm is still available to those who can withstand the backround check. You can still own a streetsweeper, a BAR, or even a Barrett .50 long gun.

But your mentally sick son, wife, or nephew can’t have access to them, and you can only resell them to another similarly credentialled person. You can’t go to Virginia and sell it at a weekend gun show to someone you’ve never met before that gets only the “got cash?” background check.
idamag

inthename, that is pure baloney. The NRA has been preaching those fear tactics for years and that sells more guns.
Inthenameofliberty

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.
I have watched and studied the ‘human animal’ for years.
I have a different take on human nature than you do.

Give some people an inch, they want to take a mile. Human nature at its best.

http://twitter.com/PoliticalClyde Clyde Johnston

Bath, MN 1928… Worst school killing. Man used dynamite to kill three times the number in CT at the local school in Minnesota. 97,000 children killed every year in accidents (not involving guns). Why aren’t we banning everything that a child could touch. More kids are killed by cars than guns every year, why are we not banning cars from the roads of America. Because stupid people are afraid of guns and not afraid of cars.
http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

Anyone that has determination to kill some one will use anything to accomplish that goal. If a gun can be had they will use that. If a gun is not obtainable any number of things can be and are used to carry out the act. Guns are used by a very few to kill a person. It is not the gun that kills a person. It is a person that should not have a gun that kills a person.

Annemb

You need to grow up Master LaPierre!

Apparently, no one in your family has ever been a victim of gun violence.

You also need to look within yourself and search for the REAL reason that you are promoting guns and gun warfare.

http://twitter.com/jmprint Mary Martinez

I don’t think that wold have mattered much, I do believe he would sell his mom for profit.

Annemb

For some reason, you make a lot of sense, in that he WOULD sell his mother for profit.

Blessings be upon you and your family during this season and in the new year.

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

Foolish comment. Firearms prevent millions of robberies, rapes, and murders every single year, without anyone necessarily gettin hurt. Before firearms, we had no defense from the big, strong, and violent. With firearms, now everyone can defend themselves. This country was founded on that self defense through firearms. It would not exist without it, and will not continue to exist without it.

idamag

Always wrong, how about you do some research with reliable sources and prepare us a list, using names and places to back up your talk.

neeceoooo

Great comment idamag, always wrong is always wrong. Putting guns in the hands of everyone to protect everyone is such a stupid solution.
http://profile.yahoo.com/ZJ5BBSQIGTUMERPZFALES6HQNY Bill

Ida why waste time on these fools. Anyone can make a statement on this forum but when asked to back it up with some proof they disappear. Their answer to all of this gun violence is to have everyone have a gun, I think they have seen too many bad western movies

Inthenameofliberty

Thank God that people like you can not take away second amendment rights.
They were put in place for a reason.
History repeats itself, time and again.

Are you really so arrogant to think that Germany during WWII could NEVER happen in the good ole USA?

Who would stop them – YOU, who has no guns?

Inthenameofliberty

This time AlwaysRight has a point.
If Hitler had not had strict gun laws in effect in Germany before he came to power, do you think that 6,000,000 people would have perished? Hitler had total gun control for the Jews after his regime had been in power for several years. I did some fact checking on the net – Germany had strict gun laws. Did it help the German people? I think NOT.
A people must have a way of defending themselves. At all times. Who knows —–The next pre-WWII Germany could be around the corner…….
We are not a peaceful society – far from it. And taking guns away from good people will not solve that.
I am not sure what to do about semi-automatic weapons. The bad guys will always have them. They are meant to kill. I am not sure what can possible be done to get them out of the hands of the wrong people. Criminals will ALWAYS find a way to get them.

idamag

inthename. you, too, should study Germany and its loss of a great democracy. I don’t know who told you guns were outlawed before hitler came to power, but they don’t have their facts. Germans have always had hunting rifles. They still do. The reason six million Jews plus countless others, lost their lives is because they did not believe it was going to happen and at first tried to appease the dictator. Read “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.” The anti-government well-armed brown shirts were suddenly there. I don’t trust any anti-government group. Someone is leading them down the same path, some of the Germans took in the thirties.

Criminals will always find a way to break any law. That doesn’t mean we should discard all laws and let society run rampant.
Inthenameofliberty

I did not write that guns were outlawed. I said there were strict gun controls in place. There is a difference.
idamag

inthename, wrong again. There were no gun controls in place in Germany. The Jews were not armed for the same reason people, in the United States was not armed at that time, there weren’t so many rambo wannabees and johnwaynewannabees out there. hitler did initiate gun control, but not in Germany. He started it in Czechlovakia and Poland. hitler began an intensive propaganda in Germany. Germany was in the middle of a depression. He convinced them that there troubles were brought on by the Jews. He instilled fear and hate in the people, so even if the Jews managed to get arms, the people would have defeated them anyway. Everyone, I knew, had guns in their houses in the thirties and forties, they just weren’t paranoid nuts.
Inthenameofliberty

Wikipedia has the following:
Restrictions imposed by the treaty of Versailles

In 1919 and 1920, to stabilize the country and in part to comply with the Treaty of Versailles, the German Weimar government passed very strict gun ownership restrictions. Article 169 of the Treaty of Versailles stated, “Within two months from the coming into force of the present Treaty, German arms, munitions, and war material, including anti-aircraft material, existing in Germany in excess of the quantities allowed, must be surrendered to the Governments of the Principal Allied and Associated Powers to be destroyed or rendered useless.”[1]

In 1919, the German government passed the Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which declared that “all firearms, as well as all kinds of firearms ammunition, are to be surrendered immediately.”[2] Under the regulations, anyone found in possession of a firearm or ammunition was subject to five years’ imprisonment and a fine of 100,000 marks.

On August 7, 1920, the German government enacted a second gun-regulation law called the Law on the Disarmament of the People. It put into effect the provisions of the Versailles Treaty in regard to the limit on military-type weapons.

In 1928, the German government enacted the Law on Firearms and Ammunition. This law relaxed gun restrictions and put into effect a strict firearm licensing scheme. Under this scheme, Germans could possess firearms, but they were required to have separate permits to do the following: own or sell firearms, carry firearms (including handguns), manufacture firearms, and professionally deal in firearms and ammunition. This law explicitly revoked the 1919 Regulations on Weapons Ownership, which had banned all firearms possession.

Stephen Halbrook writes about the German gun restriction laws in the 1919-1928 period, “Within a decade, Germany had gone from a brutal firearms seizure policy which, in times of unrest, entailed selective yet immediate execution for mere possession of a firearm, to a modern, comprehensive gun control law.”[3]
The 1938 German Weapons Act

The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to “…persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit.” Under the new law:
etc, etc, etc.

Please tell me, again, why you are stating that there were not gun control laws in place BEFORE Hitler came along?

Seriously, I want to know.

idamag

Anne, his reason? $$$$$$ They are a lobby for the gun manufacturers and if scaring people sells guns, scare them.

Annemb

I believe you hit the nail on the head!!

Yes – if scaring people sells guns, scare them.

Blessings during this season and in the new year, to you and your family.

idamag

Thank you, Anne, and blessings to you and yours.

Annemb

Indeed, you are very welcome and thank you for yours too.

Kathy

I am surprised we do not have more up to date statistics on the NRA and the corporate contributions (2005??). Why is that? The recent ‘press conference by the NRA was more like free paid advertising for the gun industry; in my humble view.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Jones/827014412 Daniel Jones

As a lobby, they are likely trying to be Dark Money to make sure they cannot be tracked nor reported about.

Bill Morales

NRA’s position: the ostrich strategy!

idamag

NRA’s stragety, sell more guns and make more money from the gun mfrs.

http://profile.yahoo.com/OXTU3544GEJWVS4N3VO7FPG34M Hajji

money and greed are the reasons lapierre is fighting for the gun industry, The 2 amendment gives the right to carry a gun, but NOT to kill innocent people

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

Firearms prevent millions of rapes, robberies, and murders every single year. The fact they can’t prevent them all does not mean they are not a very good thing.

http://www.facebook.com/alvey.pelletier Alvey Pelletier

LaPierre is insane! He said it himself when he finally spoke up,”I must be nuts”. I wish he would have been one of the first responders at that terrible fire in New York day before yesterday. The nut that shot four unarmed fireman, two fatally, then himself was a convicted felon, but owned a 38 revolver, a 12 gauge shot gun and a .223 caliber bushmaster rifle. A note taken from his dead body read, “I did what I like doing best, killing people”.
Do armed security guards have to respond to every fire call? Did armed security guards protect Kennedy, Reagen or the kids at Columbine? His idea as absolutely insane. If an armed mad man is intent on killing a bunch of kids and himself chances are less then 50/50 that an armed guard will stop him.
The problem is plain and simple, too many guns out there, too many guns available to mentally unstable, too many guns available to ex-cons, too many guns sold with no way to track them, too many assault guns sold with 30 round clips. If LaPierre would have said anything remotely like what I just mentioned he might still have some credibility.

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

That is crazy. So because of one or two nuts, you would disarm hundreds of millions of citizens, and allow millions of rapes, robberies, and murder go unstopped? Because firearms in the hands of hundreds of millions of average citizens of is what keeps all of us safe. If you think it is the police, you are mistaken. They always have to get there too late to prevent anything. You would increase the death toll by thousands, in order to prevent dozens of deaths? It is you who are crazy.

johninPCFL

No one is talking disarmament except the nuts like you. What we’d like is for it to be more difficult for the crazies to get weapons of mass casualty. Or if they have them, for it to be easier to tackle and disarm them by limiting the number of shots they can take before stopping to reload.

grector2000

shame on you LaPierre shame , shame ,shame, all you did there was have FREE air time for your cause.
I wonder what you contribute to the GOP??????????????????????????????????? would love to see that statistic.
I also have NO doubt if you would ever experience such a terrible thing in your family ,dead children, or maybe dead grandchildren, you would change your mind. once again SHAME on you…

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

He has no shame.
http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

No Liberal would ever favor gun control. The republicans are the ones who started gun control, in an attempt to prevent immigrants, labor organizers, and Blacks from being able to defend themselves from the night time lynchings.
Firearms prevent millions of rapes, robberies, and murders every single year.
Are you really going to sit there and say you trus the elite with their police and military more than you trust the average citizen?
If so, then you are no liberal and do not deserve the freedom of a republic, because then you are a threat to all the founders beleived in.

http://profile.yahoo.com/ZJ5BBSQIGTUMERPZFALES6HQNY Bill

Repeating the same lie “Firearms prevent millions of rapes, robberies, and murders every single year” doesn’t make it true. Provide some facts with your “fact” or stop your alternate reality bs

FredAppell

Obviously LaPierre is working for a higher (money). Even many gun owners don’t believe civilians need assault weapons. Most sensible people agree that the right to bear arms has to have limits.

TZToronto

Brand him and his group a terrorist organization. After all, the effects of their policies result in the indiscriminate killing of innocent Americans on an almost daily basis.

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

Very uninformed. Firearms prevent millions of rapes, robberies, and murders every single years. If this society were better armed, it would be much more peaceful and free. About 100 years ago, almost everyone in this country was armed, but there was less violence than now.

TZToronto

You just shot down your own argument. “About 100 years ago, almost everyone in this country was armed, but there was less violence than now.” Why do you think that is? 100 years ago nobody owned an assault weapon. So isn’t it time to do something about it? If not now, when? Obviously, the 26 innocent people who were murdered in CT died for nothing because absolutely nothing will be done about this problem. And don’t say it’s not a problem. If there were no problem, 26 innocent people would still be alive.
idamag

Always wrong, prove it.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Vernon-Sukumu/100000963359102 Vernon Sukumu

Hundred years ago, 1912 some folks, in rural American still had to hunt to eat. About violence, American have always had lots of violence, taking the land from the Indian, keeping the slave in there place taking half of Mexico. The gangs that came from Europe, none of the Mafias were peaceful.You might have heard of Jim Crow, I grew up in the south it was not peaceful.

FredAppell

I didn’t think of it from that angle but I suppose it isn’t too difficult to make that assessment. Usually though I try not to use such inflammatory language as calling people terrorists because it tends to polarize people and that makes it harder to have a meaningful dialogue with the opposition. The NRA have moved away from there original intent and have become a machine who is motivated by power and greed.

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

That is foolish. It is the military and police that are the real danger. How many innocents were killed in Iraq, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, etc.? How many incidents like Rodney King and Waco? Freedom, equality, and justice are based on each individual being responsible for their own defense and the defense of others. It can not be shirked and delegated to police or military, or else you soon find you have no freedom, equality, or justice. Switzerland and Israel have it right, and every single responsible adult should have an assault rifle. Those untrustworthy should be supervised and kept from more dangerous things, like cars, ballot boxes, etc.

FredAppell

Where did I ever say all guns should be banned? Yours is a knee jerk reaction. You read too much into my comment. I will concede that people have the right to bear arms but I will maintain my stance on assault weapons. As far as Waco goes, well, the only real victims were the children otherwise I have no problem with the authorities trying to shut them down. I don,t agree with civilians starting private militia’s either or street gangs but there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of will to prohibit them. I do agree with your premise of the wars you mentioned. By the way, Israel probably isn’t the best example to use for your argument considering how many of their citizens are killed annually by suicide bombers. Their right to bear arms isn’t helping them much in that regard is it? Did you know that every able bodied Israeli is required by their Constitution to serve in the military when they become adults? I’m not sure how long the terms of service are for but how would you feel if our country did that with us considering your feelings about our military? I also take exception to the notion that i’m somehow irresponsible because I don’t want to own a gun. Now that is foolish.

http://profile.yahoo.com/ZJ5BBSQIGTUMERPZFALES6HQNY Bill

Fred, Israel is also in a constant war zone, the countries surronding them want to wipe the Israelis off of the map. They experience missiles being fired at them, terrorists blowing themselve up there and numerous other acts of violence. I believe each Israelic citizen has to serve 2 years in the armed forces there and are properly trained in using firearms. A large number have probably been in combat too

FredAppell

Thanks Bill. The next time some fool suggests that all American adults should be armed and uses Israel as a catalyst for their argument I will remember what you told me. Hopefully that will shut them up for a while.

Inthenameofliberty

Hello! I agree that assault weapons do not belong in the hands of civilians.
How do we get them out of the hands of drug cartels?
How do we get drug cartels out of the USA?
I am so lost and without answers on this one.

http://profile.yahoo.com/RGOUPZ3JYNMPBVOHLZRCRVRD6Q ivory69690

the sadest thing of all is the innocent lives that are murdered . make’s one wounder if the ones that was innocently murdered and shoot down was some of the NRA’s ppl. their love ones and freinds . would thy thy think the same if it happen to them with 30 or more round clips from AR’s . all the innocent lives that are lose makes me think are the one’s(NRA) truly the innocent ones that let, beg and pay big bucks to make these weapons? i,d want no one to be murdered by a person that has head problems . but realy is there only one to blame for these senless murder,s ? at this point it seem’s its the both of them that are responcable . back when the law’s were made thy pretty much had only one kind of gun . and it was then the one that ppl defended them selfs with . times change as do the laws and these laws should be changed if for nothing else then for the innocent ppl. of the land and country
AlfredSonny

NRA violates all religions due its inability to resist temptations of thick wallets.

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

Tell me a single religion that says we should not defend ourselves with arms? For if we did not do that, we would still be a British colony, without rights. Any religion that would say we should remain serfs, is evil.

Sand_Cat

Let’s try Christianity, Buddhism, Jainism, for a start. Your “knowledge” of religion is almost as good as your “knowledge” of history.

And if you want to point to all the massacres committed by Christians and others, be my guest. The alleged founder still said “do not resist evil.” True, the “Christians” like you ignore him, but then they’d probably all crucify him again, too.

idamag

Sand, Jesus would not be acceptable in their society. He cared about others and admonished us to care about others.

jnsgraphic

Its time to repeal the 2nd Amendment… it might have been appropriate for the muskets of the 18th century, but inappropriate today when almost anyone can own an arsenal of assault weapons that our forefathers could have not even imagined. The NRA succeeds in intimidating lawmakers and our politicians are reluctant to propose measures to tighten gun violence and gun control. Repeal of the 2nd Amendment would take forceful leadership, similar to the repeal of Prohibition and Slavery; the murderous Second Amendment has become nothing more than a shield for the paranoid ‘Right Wing Gun Nuts’ to do almost anything they want. Definitive action must be taken NOW so that another Newtown NEVER takes place again! Now is the time while the flags across America are at half staff, and the horror and anguish are still felt for the 27 victims (20 of them innocent children, 6 heroes and the shooters mother) are still fresh in our minds… and make our country worthy of their memory.

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

Wrong. When the constitution was framed, people were encourages to own their own cannon, blunderbus, and all sorts of weapons of mass destruction as deadly as little assault weapons, if not more so.
The whole point of our republic is that all authority comes from the inherent rights of each individual. Take away the rights of each individual to be armed with an assault weapon, and then it automatically is illegal for police or military to have them. For no one can be allowed to have any more power under the law, than any one single individual. What you would do is divide the people into the powerful elite, and the rest of us who were helpless and subservient to their whims.

jnsgraphic

Times have changed, we no longer have home-based militias; while the radical NRA (No Reason Allowed) gun loby and Right Wing Gun Nuts call for more Government to protect the fanatical 2nd Amendment Zealots. Its the paranoid right wing survivalist types that think they need assault weapons to protect themselves. The ‘right to bear arms’ doesn’t mean you can have a arsenal of weapons in your home or there’s a good chance these guns will be used for another reason. Gun control would allow people to own guns for hunting or for security purposes, with limits to what types and numbers of weapons and ammunition you can own. We ALL must change our behaviors, stop financing violence and promote solutions. Without a compromise, the extreme would be to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

Sand_Cat

It isn’t that times have changed, though they have. This idiot’s history is what is changed, from reality to the typical paranoid right-wing fantasy. Don’t indulge his stupidity by accepting his false premises.
idamag

jnsg, He is just spouting probably what he hears from his father. He has no idea how the constitution came about and what was meant by the second amendment.
Inthenameofliberty

When the FEMA’s new youth army has gun control placed on it, then maybe a rational person would consider gun control placed for themselves as well.
Until then, times have not changed all that much in my view. Gun owners to not want any controls placed on their guns and ammunition. Right or wrong? I don’t know.
One never knows when one will need their guns to protect themselves. We need to think with our rational brains and not our broken hearts on this one.

Too bad the people entering into this discussion don’t have as much to say about all the children and innocent adults that have died in the the drone strikes overseas.

And nothing to say about the drones flying over US airspace as I type this.

‘Methinks’ we are not paying attention to the bigger picture here.

jnsgraphic

‘Methinks’ drone strikes in places of war overseas differs from innocent children and adults shot down in our schools. There is no reason for a ‘rational’ person
to own assault weapon to protect themselves; there needs to be a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips, as well as requiring background checks for ALL gun sales.
Inthenameofliberty

Well – since neither one of those things should be happening (what right on this earth do WE have as a country to be sending drones to KILL INNOCENTS – just who the hell made us so special????). We should not be at war anyway. I don’t recall their being any Congressional ruling to do so (for any recent president). Do you?

I am not against rules against assualt weapons, which I did state elsewhere on this site.

I have a problem with the precedence being set for individuals who will use it to start banning the NEXT ‘bad weapon of mass destruction’.

If someone could guarantee there would be no other bans on their weapons, I would think that most (not all) ‘rational’ gun owners would give up their assualt weapon.

But this country is full of fools, who if given an inch will try to take a mile. Some just can not be content with a little compromise. They need to have it all.
MJRinPA

“When the FEMA’s new youth army has gun control placed on it,…”
Is this a new tin-foil hat conspiracy? I haven’t heard anything about FEMA and guns, FEMA and an army,…
Is this part of the NRA ratcheting up the fear?
Inthenameofliberty

You are probably correct. So many emails go flying around that I often forget to just stop and check their validity.

idamag

jns, We might need to rewrite the second amendment so that it cannot be misinterpreted by wingnuts.

Sand_Cat

You haven’t got a clue. Your “history” is as phoney as your alleged concern for the victims of lunatics like you.

Inthenameofliberty

Nope. You are not thinking clearly. Once again may I point out that preworld war II germany had strict gun control laws.
Then 6,000,000 people were EXECUTED.
How could you arrogantly assume that that could never happen here? History has a way of repeating itself time and time again.
Fearful residents of the US such as yourself need to go read HISTORY and learn a valuable lesson. ‘
You are being very very foolish.
idamag

No, they did not and they still do not. I have been there.

Eleanore Whitaker

Picture this…NRA out in the streets if assault weapons and automatic ammo is banned for sale and manufacture to non-military and non-law enforcement buyers. Won’t it be grand for our kids to see them lined up shoulder to shoulder guns at the ready to murder anyone who dares to stop them? Isn’t this what they’ve been spoiling for now for ages? Why else does anyone amass 10,000 rounds of ammo? Why else do they need assault rifles that can spray as many dead in the streets as these thugs want?

Let’s get serious here people…allowing these men and women to own WMDs they’ve personalized through what they love to call their “right” to bear arms is a potential bloody war in US streets. And, don’t think that won’t happen when these spoiled little loonies think you are taking something from them…It’s called “gun entitlment.”

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

Foolish. Name one society that did not eventually have a breakdown where individual arms were not necessary? I will give you a hint, there are none, and no society has ever lasted more than 400 years without something like a rebellion, invasion, or some sort of major social decay. To reduce firearms is to ensure slavery, some time in the future, is not now. But firearms also are the only means of preventing millions of rapes, robberies and murders every single year, right now. If you are not armed, you are irresponsible and foolish.

Sand_Cat

You are the foolish one here.
idamag

You know, always wrong, if you kept your mouth shut people would just wonder about your intelligence.

Inthenameofliberty

idamag – alwaysright might be off on a lot of his facts. But in this he is correct – all societies on record have eventually broken down / imploded and if you think that could not happen here, then you are sadly mistaken. We won’t be alive to see what happens in 400 years. But there are some accuracies to alwaysrights’ arguements.
We are not civilized. People do not respect each other.
The second amendment was created by smart people who knew history.
It needs to stand firm. I, for one, NEVER want to live through what happened in preWWII Germany.
Do you really think that the Germans EVER thought that allowing gun control laws in their country would lead to the Holocaust?
Do you?????

idamag

inthename of, I discern that you are an unimformed survivalists and anti-government. Germany did not have gun laws. They did, however, have an anti-government movement that destroyed their democracy.
Inthenameofliberty

Will you direct me to where you are getting your facts? I was required to study German history at one point. I had texts that told of gun laws in place in Germany before Hitler rose to power.
I am interested to read otherwise.
idamag

inthename, I don’t know where you got those texts, but you need to get your money back. I have also studied German history.
Inthenameofliberty

See my other comment to your other response. Check Wikipedia for your facts.
My text books that I used were the old paper kind. You know, the ones written in the 1970′s that you had to look things up the old fashioned way.
I sent you back a listing of information from Wikipedia. Please tell me what you think.

montanabill

That’s rich! NRA has been promoting gun sales since its inception. Sure it is a goofy idea, but who is the biggest instigator of gun sales? President Obama. It might be a fair question to ask yourselves, just why does he have this effect on so many people? It will be very hard for you, but try to come out of la-la land long enough to arrive at an honest answer.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

I wonder if the US Army still provides “surplus” rifles to the NRA and gun clubs.

montanabill

As a matter of fact, I believe there are still M-1′s provided to valid shooting clubs. At least they were the last time I paid attention.

neeceoooo

Do you want me to tell you President Obama has this effecty on so many people; because it is the color of his skin……

montanabill

I would have to assume then that it is the same color as Chuck Shumer’s or Mayor Bloomberg’s.

idamag

Racism

montanabill

Racism? I’m going to trust that was a serious response and not just some flippant silly reply. If so, take a peek around your blinders.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TT6POTCLZCE74T76WAJIIIUAHU frida

I want to hear from this man “call me crazy” LaPierre will say if another attack (god forbid) will happen to our young ones, while implementing more guards with assault weapons on schools. What assurance he has that it will never happen? Am waiting for his answer!

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

Of course it will happen, but no kind of gun control will make it any better. Gun control will only make it worse. Armed citizens are what prevents millions of rapes, robberies, and murders every single years. If teachers were still armed as they once were, there would be fewer school shootings. You have it all backwards.

johninPCFL

Citizens armed with semi-automatic pistols prevent rape, murder, robberies, etc. Citizens armed with Bushmasters carrying 30-round magazines are the ones doing the rapes, murders, robberies, etc.

Eliminate the 30-round magazine and the playing field is evened. The the 9-round Glock 40 has a chance against the Bushmaster.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1710087686 Bob Shipp

You hit the nail on the head about the potential for students to steal the guns from teachers or even security guards. It’s already happened in some schools as a goof. You never heard about it because the gun was not used….. I was a class room teacher for 21 years and have taken guns away from more than one student. Did they bring them to school because they were violent??? Not so much as because they were incredibly STUPID show offs! The kid who steals the teacher’s gun will be looked upon by most of his/her peers as the coolest of the cool!
http://profile.yahoo.com/MHGG5VSCP346T6ZY5FKRVL2HTA wizard

Last weekend, in San Antonio, a gun show had lines out the door, and a record number of guns was sold. Without a background check. these same folks could have gone to the licensed gun dealers, and purchased the same guns, but for some reason, the gun show is a big thing. One man coming out of the show, holding the “very last” AK47, told the interviewer that he had paid more than double what the gun would have cost last year, but he felt lucky to have found one, at all. He didn’t go to a dealer, because he “didn’t know if he could pass a background check”. Gee, I feel safer, don’t you?

http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

Most guns sold at gunshows do have background checks. Everyone with a table conducts background checks. The purpose of guns shows is that the prices are lower, because there is higher volume. The only gun transactions at gun shows without background checks, are between patrons.

neeceoooo

No you are wrong, 40% of the firearms sold in the US, are sold without any back ground check and these are the ones sold through gun shows or from one person to another.
RobGinChicago

I need a photo ID and must register with my pharmacist if I want to buy a single package of Sudafed. The pharmacist must maintain records and report my purchase to the government so that they can track and cross reference the data to make sure that I’m not buying too much Sudafed or running a meth lab. I can’t go on line and buy the Sudafed. It’s a whole different story when it comes to guns & ammo. Shortly before his attack on the movie theater, the crazy Colorado theater shooter ordered more than 6,000 rounds of ammo on line, with no ID or background check, no data reported to the government, no license, and no questions asked.
idamag

At least the scarecrow had enough sense to ask for a brain. Forty percent of guns bought at gun shows are bought without a background check.

http://profile.yahoo.com/JWPCDWWOQJAS5UTZVN5CE3MZLU PamelaT

every time this guys opens his mouth we know why inbreeding is against the law in most states except for Red states.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Jones/827014412 Daniel Jones

Of course, LaPierre hates FPS games.

You don’t have to buy more ammunition for them.
http://profile.yahoo.com/JVFE5XKXTY7OI6LXLPHFP4FP4E Gregory

The idea of think the NRA is going to pitch in and support gun control would be like the devil supporting Christians. Not going to happen. The NRA is about selling guns and the last thing they’re going to do is come up with a solution that will cut gun sells. Who do you think supported removing the assult weapons band in the first place. Every American needs an assult weapon and at the rate we are going we need to pull our troops off forgien soil and have them protect us here on American soil. The only problem with that idea; our troops might be out gunned if they were to have to fight on american soil.
http://profile.yahoo.com/UEM7QPFJWDXRU2NH26ZGTGRSIU Always Right

Firearms are the tools of defense, not slaughter. Firearms are the equalizer that allow the night duty nurse to scare off rapists without anyone having to get hurt. Schools never used to be attacked because teachers and janitors always used to have arms available. It is the anti-gun craze that is leaving our children undefended. If you try to prevent criminals from getting access to firearms, not only will you totally fail, but in trying you will create second class citizens. And once you do that, all divisions, restrictions, abuses and polarization by the elite become possible. It is the end of justice, where everyone is supposed to be equal under the law. For you know full well the wealthy are never going to be unarmed, without armed body guards.

johninPCFL

Well THAT explains why the Bushmaster exists with the 30-round magazine: to defend the crazies against the normal folks. The children in Newtown weren’t slaughtered, they were killed in an act of self defense.

1/3 of the schools today have armed personnel on campus. There were armed teachers at Columbine HS when that attack occured, and Virginia Tech had an armed SWAT team on campus. It didn’t stop the shootings there, and the police responded before the armed folks on campus responded.

Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound? How about if we just limit the crazies and criminals to 10 murders before they have to stop and reload?

Inthenameofliberty

Ok. Then Obama no longer needs to be surrounded by secret service personnel because we will ban ALL weapons across the USA so he will then be safe forever.

Right?

johninPCFL

NOW what in the hell are you yammering about? Fully automatic weapons were banned from general public use 80 years ago and you can still buy and own one if you want. Want a fresh, shiny new Barrett .50 cal that’ll let you murder from a mile away? Yeah, you can get one if you’re not mentally ill or a criminal.

Ronald Reagan was surrounded by the best trained response team the world has ever seen and still shot. Not shot at, shot. By a mentally ill guy that should never have had access to a gun. Fast forward 30 years and 20 children are murdered by a mentally ill guy that should never have had access to a gun.

Your regular drivers license that lets you pilot your 3000 pound car is not enough to drive a 70000 pound truck. You get a different license that says you’ve been trained for that. How about you can get any caliber of pistol or rifle you want with the ability to murder up to 10 people before you have to stop and reload? Then, if your murder desire exceeds that, you have to go get a license to get the weapon or magazine to go murder more? Would that pass muster in the gun nut culture? Of course not. Because guns don’t kill people. Nuts with guns kill people.

The rational point is that nuts with access to weapons of mass casualty are more dangerous than nuts with access to guns. Why is there such resistance to limiting the access to weapons of mass casualty? Why is the desire to murder 30 people at a time so powerful, so well understood and accepted by the gun nut culture?

MJRinPA

“Schools never used to be attacked because teachers and janitors always used to have arms available. It is the anti-gun craze that is leaving our children undefended.”
I think you better check your facts. I went to school in the 1960′s and early 1970′s, there were no armed teachers, and no mass murders. It is not the anti-gun craze that kills our children, IT IS THE GUNS!

http://profile.yahoo.com/OIWHIIHWEWBKKLVU4FQS3XQQKE Todd

The Aurora Colorado shooter went to a movie theater that was three movie theaters further away from his house than others showing the same movie because it banned LEGAL concealed weapons.
He didn’t want to take a chance that someone might actually shoot him. The mall shooter outside of Seattle committed suicide when confronted by a citizen armed with a LEGALLY carried pistol. Had it not been for that brave man, who never fired a shot because there were people behind the murderer, there would have been many more killed. The list goes on and on. Since the 2nd amendment calls for citizens to be armed in order to form militias, one would expect those same citizens to be armed with the best weapons they could purchase. It is not as if military style weapons are inexpensive.most cost upwards of $500.00. There are no “assault weapons” legally sold in America, as “assault weapons” are fully automatic and those weapons have been banned since the 1930′s. The guns laws inConnecticut are some of the strictest in America. They actually worked when the Newtown shooter tried to buy a weapon and was turned down. But, like most criminals, he managed to obtain weapons illegally.
The murder weapon of choice, according to the FBI, is a baseball bat. Baseball bats are used to murder more people than any one kind of gun. Are we going to ban baseball bats? If you want to stop senseless killings, ban the automobile. More people are killed by cars than all other violent means combined.

johninPCFL

Fine. Every citizen in a militia who has training in that militia can own any weapon they choose. Can they still be limited to murdering 10 people at a time?

And actually, nearly the same number of people are killed every year by guns as by cars. The major difference is that a really small number of that total are killed by people aiming the car intentionally. For guns? The majority are killed intentionally.
idamag

I have never heard of a nut pointing a car at a theater loaded with people.
Inthenameofliberty

Thank you, Todd. Thank you.

http://profile.yahoo.com/PZC5R6XXXSDYUVXZGK2EQQ62YM paragoose

The efforts being made by the “Liberal” single minded agenda in theses great states today sickens me, never do we hear about the concealed permit to carry person who stopped a mall shooter after only 2 deaths instead of that same shooter killing 20 or 30 innocent men women or children! Those instances seem to be kept quiet by the anti-gun lobyists out there who think the only way to stop people killing people is to do away with guns any and all types of guns! If I had no morals, was crazy or just didn’t care about my life or others lives I could just as easily load a 12 ga. shotgun with double 00 buckshot and 50 cal. deer slugs and even if you slightly missed your intended target you would still quite easily kill everyone you aimed that weapon at! Once again we seem to loose sight of the fact that a loaded weapon no matter what it is sitting on a table will NEVER kill anyone until it is picked up by someone intent on using it in just that manner to kill someone or many with it!! Untill that person comes up against someone else who is armed and able to defend themselves and others that killing spree will continue! Outlaw guns to the honest and law abidding citizens in this great nation and you go against everything your past relatives throughout history have used to make this the once greatest nation in the world!!!!! There is nothing wrong with firearms in the right hands only wrong things are done with firearms when they are in the wrong hands, PERIOD! Lets get people the mental health they need, lets quit cutting back on mental health facilities, doctors, etc. and lets have stiffer penalties for people who rob, injure and kill people with the use of any type of weapons!!!!! One of the biggest reasons Japan didn’t plan on invading the USA during the 2nd World War was because they realized that behind every tree and bush would be a able bodied male and even some females who owned firearms and knew how to use them! Let any of your family members be held up by a gun carrying criminal and you will wish to god you had a permit to carry and could save their lives at that given moment in time instead of becomming another statistic of bad vrs good!!!

johninPCFL

Because the mall-shooter incident you fantasize about never happened? Yes, a mall shooter was shot by a defender (not shot at, he was shot) and the defender was then paralyzed by the mall shooter’s return fire (gotta love those 30-round magazines when you’re out murderin’), who then went on about his mayhem. Maybe you were talking about the courthouse defender who was killed after shooting at the courthouse attacker? You know, before the courthouse attacker continued with his 30-round magazine shooting up the courthouse?

No one is talking about eliminating guns, in spite of what the NRA idiots claim. How about the limitation that you can only murder 10 people before you have to stop and reload (by the way, when you stop to reload is when you are most vulnerable to counterattack)? Is it too much to ask that you stop murdering every ten people to let some escape, or come back after you?

Inthenameofliberty

Try reading the paper before you accuse someone of lying.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000079950020 Tiffany Wilde

Selling guns is saving lives. To protect yourself from these maniacs you need a gun. There is no other way.

johninPCFL

No, hand grenades or rocket launchers would also work for protection. Come to think of it, a nuclear weapon would also work. Maybe those should also be legal?

How about this. You can own any kind of pistol you want. It can be of any caliber. You can shoot up to 10 times before you have to reload. How about that?

Or, if you want a long gun, you can have any caliber rifle you want. It can also shoot up to 10 times before you have to reload it.

Or is the ability to murder only 10 people at a time too much of a limitation on your lifestyle?

Inthenameofliberty

I was with you until that last line. You lost me there.

http://profile.yahoo.com/SDOPYQEXAFU6XM6TSMI2E3ZK7A craig

just another case in our society where money trumps common sense. the nra has about 4 million members, which is about 1.5% of the total population. why do they have such a strong voice in our society and our govt.? for one, most gop members, and some demos are on the take from the lobbyists that represent them. in other words, most money collected from members goes to politicization of their agenda in addition to bloated salaries for nra brass.
leedaily

As a second ammendment supporter and a firearms owner thesese are the things I want to see happen to prevent another tragedy:

1. A data base specifically for mentally ill that can be accessed if some one wishes to purchase a firearm
2. Private sellers can and must access the NICS system if they sell a firearm to make sure the buyer is legally allowed to possess one.
3. No one can possess firearms in a household where a felon or mentally ill person resides.
4. Local authorities are allowed to have input on individuals interested or applying for a permit to purchase a firearm. (now it is will issue on demand if no criminal record)
5. Better training requirements on permit to carry.

These are just few things I am will to work on with the anti-gunners.

idamag

lee, I think there is a poster, on this board, who could not pass am MMPI test.

Inthenameofliberty

Time for you to increase that to ‘more than one’, don’t you think?

ExPAVIC

Too Late

That ship has sailed from Newtown, CT, two weeks ago.

They are coming to get your “military-type assault weapon” and there isn’t squat you can do about it, really.

leedaily

OOOOO I am so afraid.

Thanks,
Lee

Subject: [thenationalmemo] Re: NRA vs. Common Sense
Inthenameofliberty

Well, that was real respectful of you.

http://www.facebook.com/mark.baeten Mark Baeten

Large capacity buses kill more kids every year than large capacity clips you bunch of fools!

idamag

So, next, nuts will have more access to large capacity buses and bring a concealed bus into a school?

Inthenameofliberty

Let’s not be obtuse here.
You know he was trying to say that if more kids died in bus accidents than people would be clamoring to stop using buses to transport kids.

ExPAVIC

IRRELEVANT

Large capacity buses? Now who is the fool here, oh your pointed hat gave you away, you moron.

Inthenameofliberty

This is not irrelevant.
And you are a disrepectful individual at times.
And Mr Baeten should be more tactful.

I just researched the stats on line about bus accidents and deaths.
Dear Lord – what a run around, as state after state declines to include any accidental deaths on school buses if the bus was taking the students on a class trip.
WTF?
If more kids died in school bus accidents than from gunfire, that would indeed be relevant.
Why would you disagree?
NEWZFLASHER

You are exactly what is wrong with our bully government,always running your mouth about things you know nothing about and starting wars everywhere. You should just stay home because you are getting noticed in the wrong way. It’s dangerous for you to stick your head out of the front door and blurt “LIPSHITS”.

flipsider

It appears that you are finding out that there are many of your readers that don’t agree with the types of gun control your writer seems to advocate. Before asking anyone to give up a right protected by our constitution,, how about making an effort to at least listen with an open mind to other ideas.
http://profile.yahoo.com/LIOWPV3RG2BI6EUJVVKTE6KSQU Charles

NRA ,does not care. If anyone getd killed by there guns. Closed all the manfarurity who make guns in USAs of right now. That would slove that part of buying new guns.

NEWZFLASHER

nvkjnsknnnckk;

http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

Many of the people who were giving condolensces and sorrow over the deaths of those babies and educators went out and emptied the shelves of AR-15 Bushmasters and its ammunition. That was an oxymoron, the height of hypocrisy. Yet, one week later, an ex-con who spent 17 years in prison for murdering his grandmother kills his sister, sets fire to their apartment complex, then kills two unsuspecting first responders with the AR-15 Bushmaster that was owned by his sister. That idiot said Bad guys with guns are stopped by good guys with guns, but that ex-con in New York proved that bad guys get guns by robbing good guys with guns, the same as the mentally ill coward in Conn. who took those weapons from his mother then killed her with her own weapon. Come on, man! The fact is, those guns are not needed in a civilian setting. They are not needed inhunting nor are they needed for families to sit around the fireplace admiring the technology of an instrument of mass destruction. American went into Iraq and devastated a whole country in search of weapons of mass destruction, yet we have weapons of mass destruction in our midsts being used to kill its citizens. Seriously?

ExPAVIC

Yes Robert

When are these non-shooting, bible bangers going to get the idea that IT IS THE GUN THAT DOES THE ACTUAL KILLING, GET RID OF THE ARMS AND THE KILLINGS WILL STOP. Really.

Inthenameofliberty

I SO hope that you are kidding.
If you are not, then you are being very foolish.

ExPAVIC

Fact

When the small arms firepower of private citizens EXCEEDS that of the armed forces, which it does, it creates a problem. Watch how central government deals with that problem.

Guess which body is going to loose its element of small arms firepower. First will come a ban, next will come an expensive licensing of “assault-type kiddie killers,” and finally will come a voluntary relinquishment of “assault weapons” ownership, much like the buyback of “clunker vehicles” which occurred a couple of years ago.

Remember, you read it here first, but it comes from the Justice Department just recently and from a reputable source.

http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

Alwaysright, you’re wrong on this one, buddy!
Pamby50

The NRA seems to think that by arming school teachers, childrens lives will be saved. Do you really think that some smart kid is not going to be able to figure out how to get access to that gun. Who will be responsible for the harm done. The school, the state or the teacher. I would say neither one. It all seems so senseless. A 3 yr old shot & killed himself all because he found his parents gun.

I am ready for the mental health component to get set up. This has to include our veterans & people still in the military. They may not be a threat to society but the suicide rate is to high.

idamag

Yes, Pam, there is a poster on this board who proves we need more mental health available.

Inthenameofliberty

Just one? Really?

http://www.facebook.com/larry.cooper.712 Larry Cooper

I believe there is a solution to the gun problem.First, automatic wepons must be reserved for the military and law enforcement only.Those two entities may never sell those arms but if it is necessary to replace them, then the ones to be replaced must be destroyed.
Secondly, any gun produced or imported to the U.S. can only be loaded with a single round,if that single round is fired, then the trigger will become inoperative for a period of 5 (five) seconds.
Any gun privately owned will be required to be altered to meet the above requirement or relinquish the gun and receive a payment of $100 ( one hundred dollars) payed by a tax on the National Rifle Assn. Those guns conviscated shall be destroyed.
Anyone who does not have their gun restructured to meet the above restrictions will be fined
$10,000 (ten thousand dollars) for each round which can or will be loaded.
All privately owned arms must be registered with a law enforcement agency, and that record will be entered in a nation wide computer bank.
Gun shows will be monitered and should a gun be found that is not in compliance with the above, the gun seller will at that time be fined $10,000 (ten thousand dollars) and all of the guns on display will be conviscated.
Buyers must submit a medical statement by a doctor that he or she is mentlly competent before a purchase can be made.

ExPAVIC

Come Clean

Tell us the truth Larry, you have never shot a firearm in your life and wouldn’t know which end to point at the target. Am I correct?
Inthenameofliberty

I can not agree with most of what you say. I am too stunned that you would suggest what you just did.

I can just picture it now: “Hey, Mr robber, I missed you when I fired at you to protect myself. Will you please wait 5 seconds to move so I can have a chance to protect myself again?”

really??? You actually think that this is a viable option?

Oh. My. God. I am not even sure what you could possibly be thinking.
NEWZFLASHER

You have been cooped up in a closet too long.

http://www.facebook.com/larry.cooper.712 Larry Cooper

I believe my comment is just and if applied would solve a lot of the problems we are having now with the growing number of murders.

NEWZFLASHER

It’s really powerful that you have the power to predict and be the spokesperson for everybody to follow.

slee14

Suggestion is made that guns should be sold to protect people with guns? Sounds like we are back to the Old Western frontier Days. But, don’t forget even in those days they did not have automatics and semi automatic guns. Also suggested that we put no ban on guns but instead protect schools with law enforcers and give teachers guns. That is pure stupid. Do they realize how much it would cost Americans to cover every exit or entrance door to even ONE school with security and what about a child finding the teacher’s gun? Are they going to give her a semi-automatic or just a pistol which won’t be sufficient? We will have to give all the teachers weapon training also. Do they realize that teachers are being layed off and schools need funds? Extra security and guns to teachers will cost in the billions each year? Don’t forget these armed security guards get paid, probably about $55,000 a year. It seems simple to me that you cross all your “t’s” and dot your “i’s” before selling a gun but you DONT sell semi/full-automatics,etc which you DON’T need to protect your person or home or hunt. But, of course, that means that NRA would probably lose sells. Yes, anyone with a gun can still kill someone but it may help a slaughter.
NEWZFLASHER

Here is some common sense and a short simple reply to those who would say the answer to solving a few nuts out of 300 million people who would do harm to the law abiding majority is to punish the majority and make them defenseless by restricting or taking their guns away. I would tell the government and the governments’ mouthpiece(news media),I will put my guns down when you likewise stop attacking and murdering innocent people abroad and at home and put your guns down. Stop your business of occupying and controlling the world by constantly spreading trumped up wars all over the world. The reason the 2nd amendment was created was to allow “We the people ” the ability to be able to defend their selves against a tyrannical/out of control,unrepresentative government which is exactly what we have now. Chew on this!

ExPAVIC

Fanatical

Is this the best you can do when the private citizenry now possesses more small arms firepower than US Military Forces? Do the whack jobs who have responded herein really need that degree of force superiority?

Think about these two issues when the NEXT mass murder of private citizens is shown on the late news.

Those of us who have enjoyed the shooting sports for years will welcome a ban on the sale of ”military assault-type weapons,” foresee the requirement to purchase a permit to carry pre-owned “kiddie killers” , and voluntary confiscation of those arms for which a permit has not been purchased.

NEWZFLASHER

This is a complaint you should be taking up with your government,not me,I am quite the contrary as I do not condone murder or harm of innocent people.

Think,more importantly of the thousands of innocent people, not just a few who are murdered, by our own government constantly waging endless,trumped up wars abroad which never makes the news. I am not a “kiddie killer” and did not even suggest that,I suggested the exact opposite. It seems that all you want to do like many in our government, is start wars. If you are truly against the evils of war as you claim, you are barking up the wrong tree,take your barking to the masters of the gun evil doers,our Congress,White House and greedy powerful corporations who own this immoral government of ours.

ExPAVIC

Hmmmmm

Is this a review of the myopic, baseless, government style of the Reagan and Bushes years? Two terms of old-man Bush would have fixed this country up really well. Thank some one for the relief and sanity provided by the Clinton years.

leedaily

Good comment.
http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

Newzflasher, what’s the matter, man? Having a bad reaction to your medication? Did you change from a name brand to a generic to save some money and its got you a bit numb in the brain? ” Tyrannical/out of control,unrepresentative goverment”. The 2nd Amendment is for what it was exactly written for: A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. I understand your medication is taking a little time to get into your system properly, but please don’t read into the 2nd Amendment what it doesn’t really say. It was written 222 years ago when the country was under attack by Britain and their internal agents. The Continental Army was too small and spread to thin so the 2nd Amendment gave the people the right to bear and keep arms in case of invasion by foreign attack or from their agents who were traitors to the new Republic. What invasion are we fighting now? What domestic agents should we be on guard against? You can wait to answer it when your medication kicks in, okay. And, by the way, we care for you, man. If you need help with your meds, reach out to us.

Inthenameofliberty

Go watch Ben Swan on Reality Check as he addresses what you just wrote.
Oh – I forgot – that would probably be beneath you.
Seeing as how you just took great pleasure being a bully to someone you don’t know because you can sit in your little safe house and be an ass without any repurcussions.
Way to go – do you feel like a ‘Big Man’ now?

Inthenameofliberty

Thank you. Why is this so hard for others to understand?

NEWZFLASHER

The editor of this site article chose to put this comment at the very top (the first comment), as if I was thanking the author of this article. I am not thanking the author of this article for his bad short comings of this article. I am responding to “INTHENAMEOFLIBERTY” who was responding to my comment.” INTHENAMEOFLIBERTY” replied with and I quote”Thank you. Why is this so hard for others to understand?” and the following was my response to his response:

Thank you. That is a good question but is hard to answer because I don’t have the tools of poll taking and don’t even trust polls anyway. All I can think of which is only from my power of observation is that too many people are educated in football and violent sports and activities and like to run their big mouths about the important things in life for which they know nothing about like for example what is actually going on not only in our country,but worldwide.Many people go crazy and get stupid and violent about a football game they aren’t even playing in while meanwhile dirty,evil and immoral plans are going on behind closed doors by global elitists to “DEPOPULATE” the world. Many people blindly believe the lies they hear (phony polls/statistics etc.) from the media especially broadcast media without taking the time to research important matters that might lead to some truth of who owns the media,who owns our government,what is there ultimate plan and many other things. Many people tend to believe what they hear from the media because the media is the news, so you can’t question facts. They believe it is what it is instead of taking time to look other places/sources,gathering information and then using their brain to decipher fact from fiction,truth from lies,analyze their findings and come up with their own logical and more accurate conclusion as to what is going on and even more difficultly maybe what to do about things. Many people tend to quickly jump to violence before thinking of trying more intelligent and peaceful means of dealing with life and things because after all that’s what our country’s leaders do,so they follow the leader. Instead of doing the right thing,they do the easy thing which many times turns out to be the wrong thing to do. I told my grand daughter because she gets caught up with being cool at school sometimes “Do the right thing,not the easy thing or the cool thing. Many good and accomplished people have achieved great things in life because they have chosen to do the hard things in life not because they were easy,popular or cool,but because they were the right things to do that would benefit or improve their lives or the lives of many people. Don’t be a follower,be independent,use your brain,think,make good,decisive decisions and do the right thing.

DoctorFaustroll

On the with body count, America’s grossest domestic product. This NOMF™ is too dumb and proud of it to prevent its slow-moving NRA-assisted suicide. I’m sure Vonnegut is smoking Pall Malls in heaven after reading about Newtown and checking his own Sirens of Titan, which posited a much better outcome for the sacrifice of women and children. He’s probably saying: So it goes.
ExPAVIC

Just Pointing Out A Fact

The Second Amendment of the Constitution does not give anyone the right to blow away private citizens, college students, or elementary school children. Really, read the article just to make sure.

Inthenameofliberty

To what end did you make this comment?
We are all given the ‘right to life, liberty and the pusuit of happiness’ – do you want to say something weird about that one as well?

ExPAVIC

Facts

You are making your statements based on a lack of facts.

A recent study conducted by the Justice Department and the Pentagon has disclosed that small arms firepower in the hands of private citizens EXCEEDS that of the armed forces.

In order to rectify this imbalance, central government is going to move in a series of steps. First, a ban of the sale of all “assault-type, military-intended, kiddie killers,” next the requirement of a permit to carry or display all such weapons, and finally a voluntary relinquishment of the privilege to own all such weapons which will lead to their confiscation. Note this is not in violation of the Constitution since it will be voluntary. This much like the recent “buy back” of “clunker automobiles” that rid the highways of vehicles whose use outlived their usefulness.

Watch as this scenario plays out and remember you read it here first.

http://profile.yahoo.com/3MVTHHNITL66FX42S5ZISZXE5M Ruth

Has any one ever known where the NRA invests their money? It might be interesting to find out.
They are always so quick to defend all types of guns,ammunition and violent video games.Is that where all the profits come from?
Raleigh Daniel Stout

I agree wholeheartedly that the NRA is a mouthpiece for gun manufacturers due to large corporate donations. I also question if NRA’s LaPierre was actually speaking for his membership when he called a press conference. He has flip-flopped on guns, government, and mental health checks in his press conference and press interviews that followed. How dare LaPierre claim that everything not a gun is a problem and a cause for mass shootings, in which bullets killed people? And then he offers to inject guns to solve this non-gun problem. He offers mental health checks in a national system but refuses to support their wide implementation…does he want the United States to go through a Chinese fire drill and waste time and money for nothing? This man is nuts.
http://profile.yahoo.com/C7AAHW642DACTA4UHSVVS5RX5Y Rhonda

the NRA is simply another tiresome conservative front group for the GOP. They are not going to advocate for improved mental health care because that would require dipping into their pockets and advocating for government funding.
onedonewong

Lets see we don’t enforce our existing guns laws, mental defects are supposed to be able to buy or own a gun. As often as not the penalty of 5 years for using a gun in a crime is waived. A president was shot and his press agent mentally incapacitated and he is sent to a mental hospital and is now out with the general public. The FBI selling guns to the drug cartel and some how this is the NRA’s problem???
When was the last time the FBI or ATF arrested some one trying to purchase a gun illegally and was turned down by the Gun data base…..NEVER.
The solution is simple besides what the NRA said about providing protection for schools, we already do that now for every federal office building. Last week when I stopped by the SS office they had 4 cops there and a metal detector to protect 6 employees. Its time to reopen the nut houses and start filling them up.
The PC nonsense has gone to far in this country and its time that we start enforcing our laws and committing the crazies starting with Joe Biteme
ORAXX

I would be unsurprised to hear Wayne LaPierre advocate increased drinking as a way to deal with alcoholism.
http://profile.yahoo.com/FKGQHT5AUWKVL6PEOXVXS43RXI Harry

The NRA forgot to tell us about the ten foot high electrified fences that need to go around all the schools to keep the bad guys from coming in from behind. Of course the guard towers in all corners will also be a great asset.
http://twitter.com/dickivy Richard Stewart

Pass more gun laws. Still won’t make a difference. When are you going to realize that laws don’t mean anything to people with evil intentions. Ban 30 round clips, he brings 3 10 round clips. Ban AR-15′s , buy one on the black market or take a grandfathered one from a parent. They always find a way. Why not do for all schools what they do at the school Obama’s kids, and kids of other elites do? Armed guards. Yes, Obama’s kids attend sidewall friends school. They have 11 armed guards. Feel embarrassed?
dgrubb67526

Gee, Just how dumb to you expect we are. vt had it own swat team? Nah, had at least one which exchange gunfire and then scurried back to the police. Surely did not do thier job. Stange all these polls are noted after. Never hear of them before. Non NRA gun owners support bane on large cap. mag. This group would include me and my friends and nope we do not support the band. Did see where you failed to support your claim as to armed schools. Give us a number of those being hit will you. I do not support a national gun record keeping system. Do agree on background checks and mental health evals. on ALL people. Suggest we link them to driver’s permits. You don’t what a crazy behind the wheel either now do you. I suggest since we can’t stop the bad boys before they strike them. We kill them when they strike. Believe there are more good people than bad. Might take some time but we could do it. lol
http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

Damn, expav, that was a good one, man!
http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

Another good one, expavic! You’re on a roll, brother!
http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

Damn! When will they learn they’re on the wrong site, Idamag! You and ExPavic are hitting hard!
http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

Tiffany Wilde, what maniacs are you talking about, the ones who will sneak up behind you and put a cold barrel to the back of your head and make you give up your weapon, make you piss on yourself while you beg for your life? What about the one that would break into your vehicle and steal your weapon, and a week later use it to rob or God forbids to kill you? Or, what about the one who would burglarize your home while you are asleep, tie you up and rapes your brains out, ransacks your house and finds your weapons stash, and leaves with your human dignity and your prized weapons. Reality is, in many cases, bad guys with guns take their guns from good guys with guns and use them against all of us.
http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

Alwaysright is wrong again. Change your name, man.
http://profile.yahoo.com/RB464JC4CE5JFZ5YOD2ZQLL3EQ Theresa Chartier

The NRA has long protected America’s Second Amendment by fighting proposed legislation that would have otherwise revoked our right to bear arms. The NRA is not to blame for mass shootings. Put the blame where it belongs….on us. On us for not teaching our children gun safety, on us for not bringing God into our homes and lives, on us for allowing sensationalism in the media, on us for not speaking out on Abortion and any other method or means that takes life rather than defends it but rather promotes a culture of death. If you fit into any of the above mentioned reasons, you’re part of the problem…not the NRA.
http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

Two reasons why President Obama is associated with the volume of gun sales , MontanaBill, and you’re aquainted with them both: RACISM AND WHITE SUPREMACY. You better redneckonize, boy!

idamag

Robert, right you are, They don’t like to admit that there is a difference in this President and the others. District 93, Idaho Falls Schools, refused to play President Obama’s speech to the school kids. Every president since Eisenhouer has had a message to the school kids. The president only had one difference from the rest. The rest were Republican and Democrat. President Obama had not been in office long enough to be hated for his policies and leadership.

http://www.facebook.com/havasutimo Tim O’Neil

Repeatedly I have seen that there is a total ignorance of weapons, tactics, and perpetrators by authors of this tone.

First, lets speak to weapons. Low capacity magazines would not have made a difference in most cases. I am an expert (by US military standards) in a couple of dozen weapon systems, and I can verify that it takes less than a second to change magazines. It is only a minor issue with a well trained shooter. As a matter of fact, reliability of the weapon actually decreases when using high capacity magazines (this was seen in the Aurora shooting where weapon malfunctions caused by the magazine allowed some patrons to escape).

Next let’s speak to tactics. Armed security and police have a weapon to protect themselves, NOT YOU. Just themselves. Bravado is cheap the day after a firefight, but very few people run towards gunfire. Police retreat and call for backup. That is a reality in an active shooter scenario. Check any police manual and get back to me if you don’t believe that.

That allows one solution: allow the teacher or citizen to arm themselves with proper training. Now I know that everyone on the left are now contemplating a bowel movement involving masonary, but please consider the following logic. If you were in a classroom and an active shooter was patrolling the hallway looking to enter your room, what would you rather depend on; a policeman that is not in a hurry to save your life at their expense; or a concealed weapon? But that is not a choice to most teachers or students have since they work or study in a “gun free zone”. I know that many of you will lie and say they would rather wait on the police, but in reality, humans would rather depend on themselves than becoming the victim of a madman.

I have been a teacher. And I have also been a soldier. I have been in conflicts on three continents, and have better weapons training than probably 90% of most police officers. I am trained in close quarter combat with and without weapons. I maintain a concealed weapons license, performed the training, demonstrated the proper use of my weapon, and the use of lethal force . And I am disarmed at the school door. If it is a consideration of my background being checked, it must be checked prior to the issuing of the permit, and in addition I hold a security clearance for the Department of Defense, and have and have held numerous explosives and firearms licenses. Yet I am disarmed at the school door under legislation that has now put all of our children and anyone in a school at risk.

By not allowing those who are trained and proven to arm themselves, you also deny yourself our protection. We are not crazy, we are just not afraid to run towards gunfire. That is what we were trained to do.

One of your arguments is that the weapon could be taken away and used against the teacher. Evidently you have never carried a concealed weapon. As long as it is carried on the person of the teacher, it is a very low probability that it would be used against the carrier. And security would also be provided to our children in self interest.

The real failure here is the non-existent mental health system. This system broke down decades ago, and there is no interaction between it and the system to deny ownership during a background check. Instead of focusing your attention on inanimate objects, maybe you should try to throw blame at a failed progressive agenda through the guise of “protecting” all of us, has made it near impossible to care for the mentally ill, and has also kept the public at risk through disarming.

The knee jerk laws that your group proposes already ran for 10 years, and Columbine still happened. So instead of continuing the insanity of doing what does not work, it is about time something different was tried. And that would be in a re-examination of the mental health system, allowing the law abiding citizen the opportunity to protect themselves, and find a way to enforce the 20,000 laws on the books that still have not stopped the recent slew of gunmen, even though they were not lawful possessors.

Inthenameofliberty

Thank you, Mr O’Neil.

lana ward

The school Omuslims’ kids go to has 11 armed guards, but he doesn’t want guards for kids at other schools!! Fuc**ng hyocrite, traitor bit*h
http://www.facebook.com/people/Rick-Kellis/1776275528 Rick Kellis

It occurs to me that the first mention of gun regulation is right there in the Bill of Rights, 2nd Amendment to the Constitution — where the purpose of having a firearm is specified; i.e., to obtain a “well-regulated Militia.” “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” We could meet this requirement placed there in the front of the amendment by having those who require guns to register in such a citizen’s militia organization, along with the administering of appropriate personality inventories and gun proficiency tests, etc. This gives the Government of the People the ability to well-regulate “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms.”
http://www.facebook.com/people/Charlie-Watkins/100001075495857 Charlie Watkins

I don’t think the gun advocates posting on here get the idea behind these gun control efforts or they don’t care. First, NO ONE HAS EVER ADVOCATED REPEAL OF THE 2nd AMENDMENT. That is the scare tactic used by gun advocates to fuel all these gun sales, playing on peoples unreasonable fears, DESPICABLE.
They continuously cite self protection as one of the reasons they need guns, granted, but for that purpose a semi-automatic weapon is not necessary, a revolver or 12 gauge will do just fine.
It’s been my LIFELONG EXPERIENCE that when dealing with Thug’s, all you have to do is kill or seriously hurt a couple of them and the rest will leave you alone. Then once the WORD gets out, you could walk through the neighborhood with your money hanging out of your pocket, and no one will bother you. This isn’t something someone told me, this is something I’ve done myself.
The other argument they like to use is, they need these weapons to protect themselves from the Federal Government.
RIDICULOUS,
First, in all the years of it’s existence the Federal Government has NEVER oppressed it’s citizens, besides the FACT that you couldn’t buy the weapons you’d need to defeat them in a gun store.
Actually, by allowing semi-automatic weapons and high capacity magazines to remain legal on the open market, it is YOU that is responsible for all of these mass murders. None of them were committed by thugs or criminals.
There will always be criminals, but by making these weapons illegal it would give LAW ENFORCEMENT one more tool to get them off the streets.

Inthenameofliberty

Germany’s Government did not oppress it citizens……..correct?
WWII and the Holocaust never happened……correct?

And there are many people on this site that ARE advocating to repeal the second ammendment.

Just goes to show how far from reality we are all straying.

http://www.facebook.com/johnny.thomas.52035 Johnny Thomas

Let it be known that I placed a similar post on FB as I did to RS and it never went through I looked and tried several time’s so what is going on .I have found a few honest one to get the safty course that are a lot cheaper and older and not out to tun over Americans to be able to express their second amendment rights .
http://profile.yahoo.com/GZZE2TFM6VDXQTRTRGKO2RORF4 Robert

I was there when the National Rifle Association was created in Virginia. I am or was Captian Robbie L Silva Jr of the Red Faction Brigade. My father worked for Central Intelligence Agency and the United Nations. During the 1970s U.S military personnel working with the Italian Mob and Sergi Chenko movement were tormenting people in the Maryland and Viriginia wilderness. They had secret camps the U.S military personal were stealing weapons and arming Mob leaders and mobsters. This was under the President Jimmy Carter administration. Did you know the horrors in Fairfax Virginia was worse in some cases tha Rwanda or equal to children and women. Ollie North, Osama Bin Laden and other dissentant voices and actors during the 1980s and 1990s and 2000s witness the reality of treatment of American citizens 30 miles from Washington D.C in the 1970s. My Glock saved Ollie North’s life when a rogue U.S marine enter his dwelling in Fairfax Virginia at Circle Towers in 1977. I saved Henry Rollins life also that moment. The U.S Marine was trying to kill Henry Rollins and Ollie North’s wife and Ollie. I knew Osama Bin Laden and trained him through the C.I.A and saved his life my mother did, Osama was almost raped that day by a Mobster that was allowed in by a MOB Marine insider. In Chicago I enter President Barrack Obama’s house with my Glock in the 1990s saving his life from the “MOB” they did not like him. President Obama was there in the 1970s when the NRA created, when he was getting kicked out of convience stores due to his family members were FBI agents and CIA executives. It is a MOB practice to deny government agent children from buying candy in Italian MOB stores. The problem was Sergi Chenko Soviet Military leaders were doing the same tactics in Afghanistan and Soviet Union as the U.S military leaders in Fairfax Virginia and through out America. It was to undermine democracy. The NationaL Rifle Association was a reaction to “Desert Warfare” methods on the America public and organize crime in law enforcement underiming U.S constitutional rights. Are you serious. The problem is the U.S military consciousness alteration drugs and medication creates the monster that kills, in public. The mass killing through small arms is due to consciousness alteration it is the U.S military that is behind it. It is about controlling pharmacy and not devices. The U.S miltiary was entering houses and doping food during this time in Fairfax Virginia in the 1970s because of Government elites were not doing what they want. The U.S military industrial complex desires. It is a problem of promoting rights and democracy versus we are boss and in control.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RXNB34WT24R7WB4NFFNL7TR4XY edward j

Since when has this so called nationale rifle association said or released any statement that made any sense. They need to be labeled for the demagogues that they are. What needs to happen is some grass roots organizing to counter the outrageous amount of influence that this very radical organization has on our country.
http://profile.yahoo.com/JMT6C3LHLJDD4RX4NB4KY5ICAE gargray

I hope you all watched the videos on gun training on the National Memo last week.
http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

Armed teachers will carry the gun on their person at all times. The liberals want you to think that they will leave a gun laying around unsecured. This is a scare tatic they have always used to force their socialist agenda on everyone. It isw a proven fact that people carrying guns for protection promote safer conditions and have less crime against them and the places they are in.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Charlie-Watkins/100001075495857 Charlie Watkins

Reality check;
I keep reading that people are buying these weapons to protect themselves from the oppressive Federal Government.
In Reality;
You can’t buy the weapons you’d need to defeat the Federal Government in a Gun Store.
Most of them are already illegal.
nannynette

WHAT THIS WELL MEANING PERSON DOES NOT SEEM TO REALIZE IS THAT LAWS ARE ONLY FOR THE HONEST PEOPLE! There are already laws on the books in EVERY STATE that do not permit anyone from even having a gun of any kind, handgun ,rifle, or shotgun in the house they live in IF THEY HAVE EVER BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY ,DOMESTIC VIOLENCE,OR MENTAL ILLNESS. THESE ARE FEDERAL LAWS, NOT A STATE CHOICE. IT IS A MISTAKE FOR AN INDIVUAL TO HAVE A PRIVATE SALE TO ANYONE OF THESE PEOPLE, and I strongly advice all to be careful WHO they are selling a gun to, and to write down in a permanent record book the following things 1.) Date of sale, 2.) make, model and caliber of gun sold 3.) serial number of weapon 4.) Name, address, phone no., etc. of person that you are selling to 5.) and you can also write up a form of yourn own that you can require buyer to fill in all of this said infomation on, along with a line that they have to sign ,stateing that they can legally buy any weapon. attach this form in your book, and keep it, because years down the line, if ATF ever has to run a trace on this gun, it will come back to you, and you might need this info to pass on to them. REMEMBER MY FIRST LINE, THIS IS WHAT HONEST PEOPLE DO, A CROOK IS GOING TO GET HIS WEAPONS ANYWAY BUT HONEST……SO WHY KEEP CHANGING LAWS THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO OBEY. THIS ARTICLE THAT THE NEWSPAPER PUT OUT LISTING ALL THE NAMES,ADDRESSES OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE CONCEALED PERMITS, DID THEY NOT HAVE SENSE ENOUGH TO REALIZE THAT ALL A CROOK IS GOING TO DO IS LOOK AT THE LIST AND KNOW OK WE WILL PASS THESE PEOPLE, BUT THIS HOUSE DOESN’T HAVE A GUN ( THEY ARE AWARE OF) AND TARGET JUST THOSE HOMES!
AND AS FAR AS THE VT shooting, yes the campus police are armed, BUT THEY HAD TO GET THERE FIRST! IF THE STUDENTS and the teachers had been allowed to have concealed weapons on them, yes, a FEW WOULD HAVE HAVE DIED BEFORE THOSE ARMED WOULD HAVE REALIZED WHAT WAS HAPPENNING, BUT ATLEAST THEY COULD HAVE STOPPED THE GUNMAN FROM KILLING SO MANY BEFORE THEY GOT HIM! I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO KNOW WHERE NBC GOT THIER ONFOMATION FROM REGARDING THE”ILLEGAL TO HAVE A 30 ROUND MAGIZINE” WHY DON’T YOU ASK ATF, IF YOU WANT CORRECT ANSWERS? IT IS NOT WRONG TO OWN THE MAGIZINE OR THE GUN THAT GOES WITH IT, WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS USE IT LEGALLY! HERE IN THE STATE OF VA., IT IS LEGAL TO HUNT WITH A SKS, BUT YOU CANNOT HAVEMORE THAN 3 SHELLS IN THE MAGIZINE. IT GETS DOWN TO THIS………..THE LAW IS THE LAW, AND EACH OF US IS RESPONSIBLE TO OBEY ALL THE LAWS,,,,,,,,WE DO,,,,,,,,,WHO IS GOING TO MAKE THE DISHONEST BE HONEST?

BY THE WAY, ANYONE THAT IS USED TO USING ANY GUN THAT USES A MAGIZINE , IF IT IS A FIVE ROUND , 10 ROUND OR THE LARGER 30 ROUND, EACH GUN HAS A BUTTON THAT ALL YOU DO IS PRESS THAT AND THE USED CLIP DROPS OUT TO BE REPLACED BY ANOTHER IN A MATTER OF SECONDS, SO YOU WIND UP WITH THE SAME RESULTS, NO ONE THAT IS GOING TO PLAN ANYTHING SO AWFUL, IS NOT GOING TO GO THERE UNPREPARED , THEREFORE, IT IS UP TO US TO BE PREPARED FOR THEM! NO, WE DO NOT BELONG TO THE NRA, EVEN THOUGH WE DO OWN AGUN SHOP.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Charlie-Watkins/100001075495857 Charlie Watkins

There are armed conflicts going on all over the world. Have any of you Chicken Hawks ever paid any attention to the type of weapons the Guerrilla fighters are using. They are using REAL Military weapons, not the toys the NRA is tricking you into buying. Toys that are only good for killing kids and other unarmed people. If you ever ran into a real Military unit, you’d find that out the hard way.
http://www.facebook.com/robert.bennett.148 Robert Bennett

I have never seen a gun get up and go shoot anyone , never seen a car start driving it’s self to go have a accident and kill some one. What we really is common – sense people reform.
No one would think of stop selling cars or air planes because people get killed. We try to make people better so these things don’t happen ,but yes we do need better back ground checks .but people who really want guns can get them on the black market . With all the drug laws we have we have not stopped drugs. or will we ever stop miss use of firearms .
FredAppell

I hope your asking rhetorically because the answer doesn’t exist. Not yet anyway, not as long as we keep thinking the same way we always have. Take a deep breath though, just know that we have an opportunity right now to have a serious discussion in this country concerning these particular weapons. It breaks my heart that it had to be at the expense of 20 precious little lives and 6 very brave educators. It’s sad really when you consider this has happened many times before but it was the nature of the victims this time that made the world take notice. Make no mistake about it, those babies will be martyred for better or worse.
NEWZFLASHER

Thank you. That is a good question but is hard to answer because I don’t have the tools of poll taking and don’t even trust polls anyway. All I can think of which is only from my power of observation is that too many people are educated in football and violent sports and activities and like to run their big mouths about the important things in life for which they know nothing about like for example what is actually going on not only in our country,but worldwide.Many people go crazy and get stupid and violent about a football game they aren’t even playing in while meanwhile dirty,evil and immoral plans are going on behind closed doors by global elitists to “DEPOPULATE” the world. Many people blindly believe the lies they hear (phony polls/statistics etc.) from the media especially broadcast media without taking the time to research important matters that might lead to some truth of who owns the media,who owns our government,what is there ultimate plan and many other things. Many people tend to believe what they hear from the media because the media is the news, so you can’t question facts. They believe it is what it is instead of taking time to look other places/sources,gathering information and then using their brain to decipher fact from fiction,truth from lies,analyze their findings and come up with their own logical and more accurate conclusion as to what is going on and even more difficultly maybe what to do about things. Many people tend to quickly jump to violence before thinking of trying more intelligent and peaceful means of dealing with life and things because after all that’s what our country’s leaders do,so they follow the leader. Instead of doing the right thing,they do the easy thing which many times turns out to be the wrong thing to do. I told my grand daughter because she gets caught up with being cool at school sometimes “Do the right thing,not the easy thing or the cool thing. Many good and accomplished people have achieved great things in life because they have chosen to do the hard things in life not because they were easy,popular or cool,but because they were the right things to do that would benefit or improve their lives or the lives of many people. Don’t be a follower,be independent,use your brain,think,make good,decisive decisions and do what is right.”
CYNICALZ

Clarence; Watch out-you’ll shoot your eye out!

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