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Monday, October 24, 2016

Slow And Pointless: What Darrell Issa’s Inquisition Won’t Dare To Mention

Slow And Pointless: What Darrell Issa’s Inquisition Won’t Dare To Mention

Rep. Darrell Issa’s joke of an investigation into Operation Fast and Furious needs a name.

Operation Plodding and Pointless might do.

The probe into the failed federal effort to track U.S.-purchased guns trafficked to Mexican drug cartels has reached a new height of dudgeon. Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives (along with a handful of Democrats) have found Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress for withholding documents subpoenaed by the House Oversight Committee, chaired by Issa.

The committee’s hearings on Fast and Furious have droned on for more than a year now. Yet, to date, no testimony has been taken to address the problem that lay at the heart of the so-called scandal: lax U.S. gun laws that benefit gun shops and do little to stop criminals from getting access to high-powered weaponry.

Issa saw to that when the inquiry began. He laid down the ground rule that no testimony would be admitted that commented on gun-control laws or legislation. As committee chairman, that’s his prerogative. But it’s a transparent tactic.

Instead, Issa has focused his inquisitorial zeal to achieve one aim: to give the Obama administration a black eye.

Fast and Furious was an ill-fated operation of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). The idea was to track multiple sales of weaponry made in the U.S., and then trafficked often through straw buyers to drug cartels. The crux of the inquiry is to find out if agents knowingly allowed guns to reach criminals, when they should have stopped the transfers.

An extensive investigation by Fortune magazine has shredded the case that ATF agents knowingly let weapons “walk” — i.e., fall into criminal hands. And Issa has admitted that he had no evidence that Holder knew that they had walked.

What, then, is the point of Issa’s sideshow? Perhaps to make sure that nobody notices the elephant in the room.

Here’s the context that Issa would rather not have discussed: The U.S. is a virtually overflowing weapons warehouse — always open, always selling. Estimates are that 2,000 guns pass south across the border into Mexico every single day.

Mexico has stringent gun laws. So its criminal element looks to the leniency of its northern neighbor to supply the weapons that have taken more than 45,000 lives since 2006, as the cartels battle for control of distribution paths in Mexico.

The greater Phoenix area alone has 853 federally licensed firearms dealers, according to Fortune’s investigation of Fast and Furious.

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  • wayneonly

    While I believe in the right to bare arms, I find it hard to support the NRA because they seem to be nothing more than a lobby for the munitions industry. There is no way that the average citizen wants or should have possession of semi-automatic weapons. These are the tools of gangs, drug cartels, and terrorists and gun manufacturers do huge amounts of business with these types of criminals. I believe better regulation of these types of arms should be better controlled so they are less available to the criminal elements and more readily available to law enforcement and military use. It is no wonder thet the Mexican government is so upset with the U.S. about the drug cartels WE spawn in their country. Yes, we (the U.S.) spawn the cartels and their violence by being the biggest user of their end product (illegal drugs) and their biggest supplier of weapons. We need to take more responsibility for solving the problems instead of contributing to the problems.

    • While you are perfectly right to have your own opinion about weapons, don’t even try to say you speak for every American. I, personally, have owned two separate semi-auto .22cal rifles from the time I was old enough to own them and I enjoyed the fact that I simply didn’t have to re-load after every shot or manually crank a reloading lever or bolt–which would force me to change my sight picture with each round.

      Yes, I have been in the military and was even in ROTC in college–where I fired what is to me one of the most beautiful and accurate semi-autos of all time, the M-14. Yes, while in ROTC I even got to shoot a full-auto version of the M-14 and earned the praise of the gunnery sergeant by holding it down to single rounds on the range and hitting targets accurately over 300 yards away using just the iron sights. Again, I appreciate semi-automatic weapons.

      I also appreciate other types and wish I had the space and the money to own and display them. But by no means does this make me a member of a gang, cartel or terrorist. Most American collectors buy and shoot their weapons because it offers them a way to have fun and even enjoy a competitive sport that doesn’t require extreme physical condition like most others. I am an average American citizen and I, for one do want and should be permitted to own a semi-automatic weapon.

      • metrognome3830

        You are right, Mr. Fields. A hunter, a sportsman or a collector should be able to own weapons. Providing you have nothing in your past that would cause the government to have some trepidation about such ownership. I owned guns and rifles. Even a small handgun. I had no desire to own anything larger than a .12 guage shotgun or a .22 automatic rifle and a .30 caliber deer rifle. But only for hunting and shooting at targets for the purpose of zeroing in. I didn’t even use a scope. But I was trained by my father when I was old enough to handle a gun and I only used it under his supervision until I was deemed well enough trained to go on my own. I hunted for years until on two separate occasions, I was nearly shot by two different “nimrods” who had no business being in the woods with a firearm. Or even a pen knife, for that matter. I left my weaponry to my son who enjoyed hunting, and retired from the woods. And I don’t really miss it. Here in Arizona, owning a gun is all but mandatory. Arizona is the poster child for NRA overreach. The Governor finally did stop a bill that would allow people to carry weapons on college campuses. Otherwise, anywhere else is wide open. Bars, picnics, political rallies, church — anywhere you want. Is it any wonder that criminals get guns here. By the hundreds at a time. No questions asked. Who would think that these guns might go to drug cartels across the border? How about anyone with half an ounce of common sense. Darrell Issa’s showboating to try and blame Eric Holder and the DOJ is just a total waste of time. There was a time when the NRA served a useful purpose, offering gun training and safety courses. Now they have overstepped their bounds by a mile and they have become too powerful and too paranoid to serve their original purpose. I know that if I want to purchase a firearm, there is no law, anywhere that I am aware of, that would prevent me from doing so. My record is clean. If I have to wait a few days for a record check, I’m OK with it. But I don’t believe that anyone, no matter their background, should be able to go into a gun shop or a gun show and walk out a few minutes later with a weapon. Or, in Arizona, with a truckload of assault rifles.

    • BozoMustgo2

      I agree with you on one major point. The NRA has gone far beyond the protectoin of the Second Ammendment in supporting the major munnitions corporations at any cost. I was a member of NRA years ago, but with their noise on the Zimmerman shooting advocating out and out murder of an unarmed teen that was the last straw for me and overstepping their boundaries on starting rumors to create a frenzy among gun owners I have had enough of their ilk. Time for NRA to go back to supporting their grassroots members and shying away from the Military Industrial Complex. I am actually ashamed to have been duped by the NRA and never will again.

  • all a side show for issa

  • Dora O’Shaughnessy

    The Fortune article is getting very little attention from the MSM. CBS relied on the testimony of a worker who had an ax to gring with his supervisor for doing things like making him work on a weekend not for refusing to track the weapons. In fact federal prosecutors refused to let them because the incredibly lax Az gun laws – and the even laxer interpretation of them – made these purchases legal.

    CBS’s reliance on one witness with a hidden agenda is as disgraceful as the NY Times’ Jeff Gerth basing its reporting on Whitewater on David Hale, a guy who was trying to avoid prosecution for embezzling a couple of million from the government. (Read Gene Lyons’ “Fools for Scandal” to get the gory details.) Or the Times’ reliance on Judith Miller’s reporting on WMD which came from Cheney and his pals Scooter and the con man Ahmed Chalabi. Chalabi had been lobbying for the US to throw out Sadaam and put him in power since the Gulf War.

    When will our “liberal” media get tough on reporters and require independent evidence before helping the right gin up yet another faux scandal. By now they should know that this is standard operating procedure for conservative operatives.

    • dham69

      Really the right, the right did it. wow. How about how the left lies every time they open their mouth to utter a single word. They are hiding something an you are just a democrat who just can’t see through your own parties bullshit. You are the perfect zombie for the left wing nut jobs (socialist/communist) party of the United STates

      • Go read the entire Fortune article, the most in depth piece I have been able to find on the subject, before you open your mouth about things you know little or absolutely nothing about!

        • dham69

          It is written by a bunch of leftist, why would I want to waste my time on garbage. where the facts are more made up with half truths and down and out lies. You want to read, try reading screwed by dick morris.

          • rustacus21

            … so if U’ve already made up U’r mind, U in fact R THE inquisitioners henchman! The problem is, that whole “INQUISITION” business was pretty bloody, when considering they & 2day’s rite wing crackpots so drunk & out of control w/their “power” fetishes, it never occurred to them they were FLAT OUT WRONG 100% of the time! Then again, like U, mayB they did think it thru, which is why Issa & the 12th century “originalist” inquisitioners have so VERY much in common!!! The evidence not withstanding, it’s all about finding new victims to brutally punish!!! But the ‘GUILTY”? Those responsible for inception of this madness in 2006, lets not even speak their CONSERVATIVE NAMES for fear of chronicling yet another conservative administration disaster. Also, I still can’t believe anybody reads Dick Morris!!! Just goes to show the fantasy spill-over affect Fox network has on even the literary world! Pathetically so…

        • metrognome3830

          If he didn’t open his mouth about things he knows little or nothing about, he would never say anything.

      • oldtack

        Hey Hammer head
        Did you read the Fortune Article in depth? Or are you just a Rushie L. media listener, garbage spewing, right wing nut idiot zombie?

        • dham69

          OH really idiot zombie, really you libs want socialism/communist are your friends. You love everything but hate everything else. You are hate filled cop outs, you don’t have a critical thinking. You trust everything from people like madcow, mathews and such. You don’t bother to go out and seek the truth, you believe in global warming, but yet the facts won’t enter your ears. You don’t believe in GOD, you think the government will save you, while in the background it is destroying you.. Reagan had it right, The problem is the government, they can’t do anything right. You want to spread the wealth just not yours. So who is actually the zombie, yea I listen to rush, hannity and mark lavine, I also listen to Beck, he has gotten so many things in the last few years, the question, why aren’t you, afraid of the truth

          • metrognome3830

            Good God! I hope you don’t have any weapons!

          • dham69

            Yes I do, and why don’t you??? Your comment just shows how ignorant you really are. The facts are out there this president has/and is destroying this country. the economy the libs own, the court has managed to take more of our rights away. And people like you just want to hide your head in the socialist/communist way, van jones must be your hero

          • alumahead

            Dude, look at yourself. You’re a mess. Overreact much? Seriously, take a break. You’re about to blow a gasket over nothing.

          • dham69

            Really, and yet again you prove my point, you don’t dispute anything, you just try to poo poo it all. You are the problem, and you are letting the country go by way of the Socialist/Communist countries. Everything is going just the way obama and socialist/Communist want, they support him and his agenda. You just want to close your eyes and as long as their is something for you, you don’t care. I am a 100% disabled VET and will defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Which you haven’t a clue about what an oath is, or what he constitution does. do you

          • metrognome3830

            Ya know what ham, I’m really tired of dumb asses like you. I quit! I’m pulling out of this web site and quit posting. Trying to communicate with people like you, who make up their own facts. Label everybody who doesn’t agree with your idiot views as libs, socialists, communists. You haven’t a clue. You, sir or madam are a paranoid basket case. Don’t bother replying because I won’t read your answer nor will I reply.

          • dham69

            Actually I will answer, history is repeating itself, basketcase, really. Tell me then what has obama done to protect liberty?? what has obama done to get jobs going? Cap and trade, he stated that energy will go up. He will destroy coal industry. You are so miss guided. logical thinking is NOT part of your life. Just keep thinking that the government will solve everything and once again people like you will find out the hard way that you have been lied to all these years. Waked up, and smell the roses, socialism fails everytime tried, communism fails every time and the people who are NOT part of the elite will suffer do to you ignorance. By the way you are miss guided once again on the 2006 thing

          • alumahead

            Somebody needs a nap……and an education.

          • dham69

            How about you, how about you getting the facts and the real truth. Stop watching madcow and the luing left or do you do like being in the dark, while your rights are b eing taken away? You don’t get your rights from the Government, they are there to protect it. we get our rights from GOD and can not be taken away. unless you have mindless robots as yourself who doesn’t understand that the constitution is NOT a living document and changes with the times. Then you might as well have it written on toilet paper.

      • metrognome3830

        You sound like a poster boy for tighter gun laws. Or perhaps confinement. Such vitriol could become dangerous if one doesn’t keep better control of one’s temper.

        • dham69

          you are the reason why people have weapons, you are the reason why this president is able to trample the constitution, people like you allow socialism and communist to take hold in the US. Yes I am armed, armed with the knowledge that Obama is going to loose, you are the small part of the US, and you are loosing more and more supporters. Obama has destroyed this economy the democrat party. and yet you have absolutely no clue

          • metrognome3830

            You make me wonder if I should have weapon, especially now that I know you are armed. “Armed with the knowledge that Obama is going to loose?” What is he going to loose? And how would you have that knowledge when no one else does? I think the word you are looking for here is “lose.” Obama is going to “lose.” And that is not knowledge, that is an opinion. You are an equally small part of the US yourself, dham69. But your aren’t “loosing” supporters only because you only had them in your mind, not in reality. But you stay with your supporters and I will stay with mine. And sometime when you have nothing better to do study up on just what socialism and communism really are instead of just using the terms “loosely” to describe anyone or anything you don’t agree with.

          • dham69

            He will be a one term, this is a fact. The tea party spoke in 2010 loud and clear an continues to speak loud and clear. Problem is that is what obama is, he stated look at the people who surrounds him. communist socialist. Spreading the wealth. really I know what communist are I know what socialist are and the progressives are. they are socialist/communist. Thats ok just keep your head buried in the sand, don’t really want to know what this government is turning into. Well come Nov obama will be removed and the conservatives will keep our progressives/big government idiots in line.

          • STORMENHARD

            @dham69…You’re an idiot!!! You wouldn’t know a communist or a socialist if he bit you on the ass ’cause President Obama ain’t even close…You red neck fool!

          • dham69

            Your the idiot, you believe their lies, he is a socialist. He wants to spread the wealth, he is a communist, he wants to control what people do and to tell them how to live. He was raised by communist supporters. There is a book out which explains this fully. By a Democrat. but you don’t want the truth you want to live in your little world of make believe.

      • Why don’t you guys just agree that the problem lies with BOTH parties.. At least that way we might all become united once again. Don’t let these political cronies keep tugging at your strings, recognize the truth, refrain from hating one another and vote all blood suckers out of office even if we have to rely on inexperience.. Maybe in that case the more honest politicians can train them to be advocates instead of contenders.

        • dham69

          I totally agree both parties are to blame, when you have progressives on both sides who like big government and who love just to spend. Yea both parties hold the blame. Bush and his no child left behind with kennedy, or the drug program, which was another big government more spending BS. I would rather have inexperience then the lying crop of thugs we have. If you notice when someone runs as a conservative they when, whether their a dem or a repub. Why everyone knows that conservatism works. No one wants socialism or especially communist. We also want our reps to represent us, not them selves. they are suppose to protect the constitution, they are suppose to uphold the constitution. but yet they are trampling it. Again yes repubs and dems hold equal responsibility to the nations failure. and it is time to get new blood in and get rid of the progressives.

  • The problem with Fast and Furious, besides the fact that it was poorly planned and executed, is that it infringed on the sale of weapons to drug cartels in Mexico. Not surprisingly, the elicited a swift response by the NRA that culmininated in the murder of a U.S. Border Patrol agent at the hands of “Mexican bandits” who conveniently left weapons with serial numbers that could be traced, allegedly, to DEA undercover agents. Only people that still believe in the tooth fairy can accept the latter with a straight face. On the Eric Holder issue, he submitted everything that could be provided without compromising the national security of the USA, the safety of DEA agents, and the reputation of the USA. Whether we like to admit it or not, our government and corporations sometimes do things that, if made public, would result in the USA defending itself in The Hague and in the eyes of worlwide public opinion. Iraq was enough of an embarrassment, Mr. Issa and the NRA should not insist on adding more fueld to the fire.

    • Parisgirl

      Bravo Sir, for pointing out the tooth fairy. It is more than obvious, it is a statement that two automatic weapons with serial numbers intact were left at the murder scene. Unfortunately there is a large segment of the public, who after years of being forced fed orchestrated media garbage, can no longer THINK! It seems that common sense is an endangered species….close to extinction.

    • Youre right! I say give em a pass. Theyre the gov they should be allowed to kill whom ever they want!!! As long as it is legal Ill murder for Obama And Holder in a heartbeat!

      • Idiot.

        • Well it’s true.. With all the atrocities that different departments of the g’ment commit on a daily basis around the world, this is little more that a smoke screen.. Personally picking on a person in order to embarrass yet another. Dirty politics is abhorring enough without brining in vendetta seekers. Bums like that need to be demoted to the soup lines. They’re highly paid leeches, feeding off suckers who keep voting their narrow asses in.

      • Stupid!

    • It is a hard thing to admit American Corporations or government do not always do the right thing, I don’t personally like it, but you are right and I agree with your opinion.

    • The problem with Fast and Furious, besides the fact that it was poorly planned and executed//// and it was all started with bush on his watch . so much bull been done on his watch . and the GOP ding dongs keep saying to stop blameing bush . and thy want obama to fix bush crap thjat took him 8 yrs to do. and the GOP wants the pres. to fix it all in a year , why so the next time (god help us ) the GOP get in the house what other crap will thy do and want the next pres. to fix ?

  • middleclasstaxpayer

    If Eric Holder has nothing to hide, WHY has he delayed providing requested documents for over a year?? Regarding “lax US gun laws” there are literally thousands of state & federal laws that cover the sale of guns in the US. Apparently Holder KNEW about Fast & Furious much earlier than he had admitted, then LIED to investigators about his knowledge. If he had nothing to hide, why lie about it?????

    • dtgraham

      I’m no fan of redacted documents either taxpayer. It may have something to do with protecting the identity of DEA and ATF agents. If it’s something important, I’m wondering if the administration has discussed this with Issa and he’s not saying. I don’t trust the guy. If it’s not, or they haven’t, then Holder has brought some of this on himself needlessly.

      As far as the lie, I don’t know about that. Issa admitted to Chris Wallace that he had no proof of any kind of prior knowledge, or cover up, attributable to Holder or the White House. We need news that we all can trust.

      • CPANY

        News that we can trust? You must be joking. We’ve never had trustworthy news. it’s all tristed to someone’s advantage.

        • dtgraham

          Imagine that. News that’s full, timely, accurate, and unbiased. News that we can all reference equally to develop an informed opinion. I know CPANY, I’m a hopeless dreamer.

    • Do you personally know what “requested” documents Issa is requesting? I don’t. You’re assuming your dealing with a trustworthy politician.. Could he have received everything not protected under disclosure laws? And he’s requesting documents he knows Holder can’t produce? If you know anything about National security, it should be that nothing termed ‘secret’ is not to be disclosed (in order to protect the operatives) and you keep your mouth closed concerning National defense.. True, those who commit atrocities falls on the shoulders of the leaders but to point out involvement is not necessarily true. Issa needs to pass his request onto congress if he expects to get everything he requests. Placed in such a position as to reveal top secret material, congress and the senate would not place that responsibility upon themselves just as E.H. is doing now (probably under the rules of law). Is it that your merely parroting what you’ve heard from your sources? Well, I too parrot and this is what I’m receiving from MY sources.. Now, I wonder.. Which one of them is the liar?

      • middleclasstaxpayer

        Fact is, by law the requested documents could be provided with the strict requirement that NO names of personnel be revealed except for the accused (Eric Holder), and of course any administration officials who participated in this, then lied to Congress to evade the consequences. When people hide behind laws, it’s usually NOT because they are innocent, but because THEY ARE GUILTY! Eric Holder is obviously attempting to hide his previous knowledge of Fast & Furious, which he subsequently lied to Congress about to cover his involvement. In the end, lies always come back to haunt the perpetrator! And others involved , like his boss!

  • dtgraham

    Some of you beat me to what I was going to post. Fortune revealed that lots of straw purchase arrests were made but nothing could come of it because of the Arizona justice system and their lax gun laws. Eventually the administration had to shut the whole thing down due to it. As I pointed out on another thread, it’s a story but it isn’t much of a one. It should be investigated, but not this 3 ring circus.

    Actually the MSM weren’t too bad on this one. They mostly waited until the contempt vote to give it much coverage. You have to cover that. Fixed News were getting desperate and were baiting them to cover it prior to that. Could it be that the normal media may be finally catching on to Fixed New’s manufactured outrage and phony, ginned up, “scandals”?

  • tokoloshi27

    Mary’s spin obscures a number of salient points. 1) DOJ is responsible for this simple oversight exercise having taken so much time. 2) They denied and then retracted and following that have stonewalled and obfuscated. 3) Firearms dealers are, like tobacco growers, legitimate businesses that deserve government support as well as the currently endemic progressive progroms. 4) Americans have the right to own and use said firearms. All else is smoke being blown up our collective rectums.

    • take2me

      What you claim here is factless can you prove what you state or are you going by the smoke that was blown up your …………

    • metrognome3830

      And you are one of the biggest blowers of smoke here.

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    Eric Holder and the entire Justice Dept. have all but shown Issa their entrails. This witch hunt is hiding the real reason Issa is so hot to get rid of Holder…There is NEVER a time when a Republican is forced to resign who won’t get his come uppance by the likes of twerps like Issa. Gonzalez anyone?
    Republicans won’t touch one single thing that has to do with more teeth in gun control laws much less more gun control. And why is that might you wonder? Does gun running profits register? Fast and Furious was begun during the Bush Administration and gee…no surprise there with that cowboy “shoot first, ask questions later” mentality. Now, Issa and his gang of bully bois are out for blood because they really have zip to prove…This is yet another waste of taxpayer dollars in the same genre as the GOP supported “Whitewater” that caused one suicide and zero jailings.
    What most people don’t want to believe about Republican men is how adolescent their revenge tactics really are. Issa has nothing, knows nothing and does nothing. And we pay his salary with our tax dollars. Good show Issa! Keep trying to make it appear you are actually breaking a sweat…Yeesh…another of those Norquist clones.

  • 13observer

    Wow, exposed for what was intended! Turn the public against our own second amendment rights to punish law abiding citizens of this country for the sake of illegal aliens and their countrymen. The motive was clear to us that have fought the LEFT EXTREME for years. The “NRA” is funded by democrats, republicans and independents and many others that FAR OUTNUMBER the commy left gun-grabers. You don’t realize the POWER of this lobby. Why must you give me an argument to put illegal immigration on trial here. How about this for a sound bite; the Obama administration wants to create new gun laws to enforce while not enforcing our immigration laws. Want some more? Didn’t think so. Does anyone really believe the mexican drug cartels can only get guns from the U.S. Only someone stupid would believe that. This administration can’t make sensible gun laws that don’t SCREW Americans. Screw the illegal aliens, when we stop using our southern border as a highway for illegal immigration, then we will worry about U.S. gun laws and not until.

    • frivolous01

      First of all, these are two separate issues. You can’t argue that since we are not dragging every illegal immigrant across the border then we shouldn’t enforce gun laws either. That is just silly. The reality of immigration law is that we simply don’t have enough money to prosecute every single illegal immigrant that comes across the border; unless you are willing to pay double the taxes then we have to look at a reasonable compromise that puts the non-dangerous immigrants into the system (so they can pay taxes and otherwise support our economy) and deports the dangerous ones. It’s just common sense.

      As far as gun laws, I absolutely believe in the right to bear arms. However, the right to bear automatic weapons that can kill hundreds of people in minutes isn’t in the constitution. There would be no harm, or constitutional issue, with sensible gun laws that restrict the right of people to purchase this particular type of weapon. Again, it’s common sense.

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    Since guns involved in this mess are manufactured here in the US, where’s the transparency of the faces behind the gun running? Where’s the man-up for the huge profits gun runners are earning in the billions from the sale of these guns all over the world that end up in the wrong hands? They love that Second Amendment misinterpretation when it gets them their way but the minute it bites them in their butts…suddenly those flap mouths go silent.

    • tokoloshi27

      I’m not sure that we have any complete evidence to support broad statements about weapons point of manufacture, nor am I sure thats of any importance. By “gun runners” I don’t get the sense that you are referring to the “straw men” buyers. The “straw men”, being illegal are sure to have a significant mark-up, that apparently was the target of the ATF. (AFT same department who go back to Branch Davidian infamy by assaulting a place of worship and ended with the auto-da-fe, by FBI, of the sect under previous Dem Attorney General)

      So the “gun runners” that you take issue with are actually legitimate fellow citizens (at least for the concerns in the U.S.) acting legally under law and Constitutional protections. Got it, you don’t like them so they are bad. Thanks.

  • 13observer

    From now on, when the leftist extreme wants to talk gun laws, we must divert attention from the discussion by claiming it too trivial but rather the ECONOMY and JOBS should be the focus much like this adminstration did when confronted with “fast & furious!

  • BozoMustgo2

    There are three points to this “Fast and Furious” scheme that comes to mind. How did the assault rifles get into the hands of the Mexicans? Was it through a purchase made from a gun dealer, gun show or from a private citizen. Why were the assault rifles left behind for Border Patrol agents to find? Why has Issa instructed the hearing not mention gun control? I am not advocating gun control but I find it interesting Issa would succinctly stipulate that gun control cannot be mentioned or discussed at this hearing.

    • 13observer

      Bozo, are you kidding? Why would Issa put gun owners rights up for discussion? This would only give the gun grabbers a forum to talk their anti-gun bullsh*t when the one on trial here is Holder. Nice try at diverting attention from the issue at hand. However the guns were obtained, if someone broke the law… prosecute them! Don’t take liberties from responsible law abidding gun owners…. WTF? If I get a drunk driving charge, should the police take your driving privileges away? Are you starting to get it now? When the Supreme court ruled in favor of gun owners Second Amendment rights after Secretary of State Hillary Clinton met with the Mexican President to put up a “spin” for more gun control in the U.S. , the Obama administration made an attempt to dirty up pro-gun advocates including the NRA by example of the supposed vast gun running between the U.S. and Mexico fueling the Mexican drug cartels and the sole reason violence prevails on the border. This was truely a conspiracy and that is what Issa is trying to get to the bottom of. This administration is not a bit worried about illegal immigration!!!! Why so much about our Second Amendment RIGHTS!

      • BozoMustgo2

        Acutally I own handguns, shotguns and rifles and have since I was 13. I eat all that I hunt and never take something I do not consume. With that said I am for responsible ownership and proper sales of firearms.

        This investigation by Issa does not say much for the GOP. Where was the GOP when the White House leaked the identity of a working CIA field agent? It seems to me they definitely were hands-off when it was one of their own that exposed Plame due to her spouse telling the truth on WMD’s in Iraq. The GOP cannot have it both ways or they come away looking like they do not have the people’s best interest in mind. This was truly a conspiracy at the highest level and the culprits involved never were held responsible. Yep, justice for all but the People.

        • oldtack

          Two good answers Bozo. I appreciate your opinion.

          Have a good day -I like your philosophy on hunting. That’s the only thing my weapons are used for also.

          • BozoMustgo2

            Thank you good sir. It seems people these days lose sight of deduction and reduction in their approach to problems. Instead they knee jerk, call names and then point fingers which never resolves or solves the problem that is perceived to exist.

      • William Deutschlander

        13 – you apparently are an NRA member and a Fourth Generation GOP, Republican, who is blind to fact and indulges in fiction, wake up, pull your head out and find daylight.

  • TSB

    We must arm the drug cartels to keep a goodly supply of products flowing to our U. S. A. users!

    • 13observer

      The drug cartel can obviously buy guns from ANY COUNTRY they desire! Their multi- billion dollar operation is HARDLY dependent on guns from the U.S. The cartels are the ones BEHEADING people not American users but it is realized they are the bigger part of the problem! Anyway…..why must we always demonize our own country? Why are we so ashamed of our prosperity? Why do we hate ourselves so much always feeling the need to apoligize for everything? Are we a nation that regrets what hard work has given us? We give up our rights and culture for everyone else American values are truely lost by the hands of our own people!

  • howa4x

    Reminds me of Kenneth Starr’s investigation of Clinton. It is just another shameless ploy by the republicans to distract from the major issues, like health and income dispariety, climate change and world issues.

  • geewilly

    The fact that Issa only allowed certain testimony, refused to call certain individuals and limited the topics, shows us how broken and disfunctional our government has become. The NRA has these guys by the short-hairs and they spin spin spin. To cherry pick the folks who will testify and what they can talk about shows disrespect for all Americans. It is a sham and a kangaroo (court) hearing. WE AMERICANS DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS!

    • tokoloshi27

      You’ve pretty much defined all Congressional hearings, including Watergate. Feel better now that you front-loaded it all on the folks you don’t agree with?

      But that doesn’t address a sitting Attorney General who couldn’t comply with the body enough to avoid a contempt citation that he is duty bound to enforce on himself. Doesn’t the sum add up to a contempt of the Nation and his own oath of office? Inconvenient truths come in all flavors.

  • middleclasstaxpayer

    Well stated. Thanks

  • I guess if guns kill people then pencils misspell words. Look at the deaths by beheading by muslims and drug cartels.
    If it weren’t for the 2nd amendment we would already have a total police state, not the partial that we already have

    • Justin Napolitano

      Since guns don’t kill people then nuclear weapons don’t kill people either so everyone should be able to own one. The person that dies of a gunshot – eight people died of gunshots in Orlando, Florida this weekend – doesn’t care whether a nuclear weapon killed him or her or a bullet. Either way they are dead and no one speaks for them and the lives they had planned to live. Thirty six thousand Americans die of gunshots every year and hundreds of thousand are wounded. If we had a disease that killed that many Americans, indiscriminately, we would be up in arms; excuse the pun, to get something done. The NRA is not taking responsibility for the unrestrained proliferation of guns, not only in this country but in other countries as well. I my opinion the NRA does not care about people killed with guns.
      All they care about is their ability to buy as many guns of every type they can. The fact that undesirable people can also buy as many as they like doesn’t concern them the least.
      The day is coming when the NRA gun lovers reap the fruit of their labors. Live by the gun die by the gun.

      • metrognome3830


    • metrognome3830

      No, people with guns kill people and people with pencils misspell words. Take your bullshit, outdated argument somewhere else. And if people in the U.S. didn’t buy the drugs from the drug cartels, there would be no drug wars and no beheadings. And not all Muslims behead people.

  • dham69

    300+ mexicans dead boarder agent dead, This has nothing to do with the tooth fairy or the NRA. It has allot to do with why, why did the DOJ allow this, who knew about it, who is lying about it. The american people deserves the truth the families of the dead mexicans deserve the truth with our boarder agent. There needs to be a full investigation and holder needs to resign along with anyone in the white house who approved of this. This is a cover up which goes right along with water gate and nixon

  • William Deutschlander

    Issa is a typical ignorant GOP stoole pigeon, what the syndicate, cartel instructs him to do he complies. This has been STANDARD OPERATING PRACTICE for the GOP (Republicans) since Tricky Dicky Nixon, who to avoid IMPEACHMENT, resigned from office, as did his Vice Pres Agnew.

    Many less than informed people truly beleive that the GOP, Republican Party of Eisenhower, is the same GOP Republican Party of Reagan, G W Bush, Rove, Adelson, the Koch Bros, McConnell, Kyl, Boehner, Cantor and the rest of the Syndicate, who’s prime motivation is to convert the U S A to an AUTOCRACY, the Ultra Wealthy and the Serfs!

    I am a former Eisenhower Republican, a former Kennedy Democrat and today a proud Thoughtfull Independent!

    • tokoloshi27

      I assume you wouldn’t have capitalized Bill Clinton’s impeachment. After all he was simply a person with no personal moral character rather than someone whose re-election campaign hired unscrupulous operatives and stood on executive priviledge to defend in-camera discusssions.

      Kind of interesting that you go to “cartel”, “machine” must have been too close to home…

  • Landsende

    Bozo, you bring up some good points. I find it strange that it was forbidden to bring up lax gun control laws if you really want to get to the truth. 60 Minutes, 20/20 and several other news shows have done stories on how easy it is to walk into a gun show and walk out with dozens of automatic weapons without any background check. I’m not opposed to owning guns for hunting or protection but why would you need automatic weapons for either unless you have some nefarious purpose. Most of these weapons are going to Mexico and into the hands of the drug cartels. The drug cartels are expanding into the United States and we are helping them by allowing these weapons to fall into their hands. Issa’s committee should have also looked into whether lax gun laws contributed to the agents death and if so, how do we fix it. If we’re not careful we may end up like Mexico with all the drug violence, which is already happening just on a smaller scale so far.

    • alwaysthink

      The Drug Cartels love to grown in the public forests in CA and those who use and are responsible for patrolling them are in danger from the heavily armed crop tenders.

    • 13observer

      So you really believe that the only means by which a drug cartel can arm itself is by access to U.S. gun trafficers? Are you kidding? This multi-billion dollar business can by guns anywhere in the world but you must insist on making U.S. gun owners the “scape goat” for the violence perpetuated by the Mexican drug cartels. How about some more attention on illegal immigration, the real scurge of this dirty business. Control of the BORDER is the issue here, which this administration cares nothing about because of political motives. Wrestle with that a bit.

  • JohnDoner

    The NRA is the U.S.’s public-enemy No. 1. They are so paranoid that they won’t allow legislators to think for themselves.

    • ExPAVIC

      The Real Truth

      The NRA has become so fearful of disappearing that they conjure up fantasy to sell their easily-fooled constituents, who unfortunately buy their pickup loads of male bovine fecal matter.

    • 13observer

      John, have you ever lobbied in D.C.? I have, and i will tell you that if not for the NRA’s lobbying efforts, Americans would not be allowed their Second Amendment right to bear arms PERIOD. So your so-called “paranoia” is actually more of a valid concern! The “anti-gun” faction wants the TOTAL elimination of all guns. Do you understand that? As far as public enemy number one is concerned…only those that would discriminate against the rights of U.S. citizens are public enemy number one! If you can’t discriminate against people of color, how can you discriminate against gun owners? Same F’n thing! If you dare to to debate this issue please engage me, I love to educate people.

    • I Have No Problem With Guns Or The NRA It’s The BULLSHIT That They Promote Just Another American Taliban Terrorist Cell Operating In Plain Sight!!!

  • Justin Napolitano

    Since guns don’t kill people then nuclear weapons don’t kill people either so everyone should be able to own one. The person that dies of a gunshot – eight people died of gunshots in Orlando, Florida this weekend – doesn’t care whether a nuclear weapon killed him or her or a bullet. Either way they are dead and no one speaks for them and the lives they had planned to live. Thirty six thousand Americans die of gunshots every year and hundreds of thousand are wounded. If we had a disease that killed that many Americans, indiscriminately, we would be up in arms; excuse the pun, to get something done. The NRA is not taking responsibility for the unrestrained proliferation of guns, not only in this country but in other countries as well. I my opinion the NRA does not care about people killed with guns.
    All they care about is their ability to buy as many guns of every type they can. The fact that undesirable people can also buy as many as they like doesn’t concern them the least.
    The day is coming when the NRA gun lovers reap the fruit of their labors. Live by the gun die by the gun.

    • UTGDI

      Is this your effort to repeat-repeat-repeat and it will be so?

      I agree the level of violence on the streets of the United States is a travesty. There does need to be some common sense levels of control, but first we need to enforce the laws on the books.

      As for the drug cartels and border region violence on both sides, I think the problem of illegal immigration and gun running can be solved with the same goal — CONTROL OF THE BORDER. No illegal immigrants come into the country, and the guns are stopped from going into Mexico. This needs to be a priority from both sides of the border.

      We are always pushing the Mexican government to do more about slowing the flow of illegal drugs into the US, and they are rightly concerned about the flow of weapons into their country.

      As for your rant about the NRA (No I am not a member). It is not the purpose of the organization to “care” about those injured or affected by guns. They fight, effectively I might add, to maintain the citizens 2nd ammedment rights. They would be the first to say enforce the laws on the books, so that the public does not feel it necessary to push for more restrictions. For instance — The undesirable (ie criminals), should not have access to purchase and own weapons. Now I am not so Pollyanna as to believe that they do not have access to supplies (Gun Shows, etc), but enforcement of and punishment when found in non-compliance would move this discussion to a new point.

      This arguement that the NRA is responsible for the gun violence in the United States is the equivelant of stating that the ACLU is responsible for all criminal behavior because they hold our authorities to a standard that sometimes results in criminals being let loose because of legal technicalities. Point is that protection of our civil rights is important enough to warrant an occasionnal bad guy to get away. There are rules of law, and all should be held accountable.

      The Nuclear Weapon arguement was beyond need for discussion, but it did get my attention.

      • Hey You Look At The Newer Post And Back Post I Have People Out Her That Feel Me And Know Just What I’m Talking About!! I Have Seen Your Trolling In All These Threads And You Got NOTHING ONE LIKE LOL GET WITH THE PROGRAM STOP ALL THE TIME WASTING BULLSHIT And GET REAL!! Nobody Gives A Damn About All The Fluff Fluff People Want To Get To The TRUTH WITHOUT ALL THE LONG Unnecessary BULLSHIT WORDS!!! LOL

      • For Someone Who Claims They Are Not A RETHUG Your Rating TELL ALL ROTF LOL!!

    • 13observer

      Freedoms and liberty sometimes come at a price! Our military men and women fought to preserve our Constitution that protects the “right to bear arms”. Any attempt to alter this provision is total disrespect for our Veterans, its un-American and is total DISCRIMINATION. Its time we took to task those who are Veteran haters who would have had our soldiers die in vain. We also lose more lives because of drunk driving or just plain accidents…so do we take everyone elses driving privilege away? Didn’t thinks so! Be careful who you takes sides with, or against.

      • UTGDI

        Like the general idea that you presented, which is quite appropriate this time of year. Reminding people that there are servicepeople out there and heroes in the past that have sacrificed for the freedoms we still have today.

        Freedom doesn’t come free — So do not surrender blindly what so many have fought to protect!

        Did not follow the discrimination angle you used.

  • John Edkins

    The author of the article is only (slightly) confusing on one point. She writes. “The idea was to track multiple sales of weaponry made in the U.S., and then trafficked often through straw buyers to drug cartels”. This is a bit confusing. More simply stated, the ATF was attempting to track guns sold to persons suspected of being straw buyers for traffic into Mexico.

    One point made by White House Press Secretary, Mr. Jay Carney, leaves me confused. Last week he stated in effect that Mr. Holder had found out about the “Fast and Furious” program, sent it up to the Inspector General for review, and moved to halt the program, because he found it to be flawed or ill-conceived. Why was it wrong for US agents to try to track the guns sold to straw buyers? Other than the refusal of AZ prosecutors to allow any arrests, what was wrong with the program? Was it wrong simply because the ATF was never going to be allowed to do anything about the sales to straw buyers?

    My point: Guns sold to straw buyers get re-sold to drug cartels in Mexico. If they are not tracked, do they not still become tools for violence in the same times and places as they always have?

    My hat is off to Dominick for his excellent summary of the issue with Mr. Issa and the republican dominated NRA. It is typical of this cabal to twist their own responsibility for gun sales into Mexico into a blast of innuendo against the Obama administration. I blame the Clinton administration for driving a significant sector the the voting population unthinkingly into the hands of George Bush and his stacked Supreme Court favoring rule by the rich. Obama has wisely not touched the gun laws, but the damage has been done, because too many voters, gun owners included, do not think beyond the end of their noses.

    • 13observer

      John, I want to ask you a question…do you believe that people engaged in illegal activity should be prosecuted? Ok, how about illegal aliens? Should we hold legal Mexican immigrants accountable for the actions of their countrymen? If not, why do you want to take gun rights from law abidding citizens for the crimes of a few? Lastly, do you believe that Mexican drug cartels could not function without access to weapons coming from the U.S.? I would love to debate you on these issues right away,so please ASAP. Thanks

  • The ultimate goal of “Fast & Furious”, in short, was to track the paths of weapons sold from The US to Mexico and do something to scourge this activity. Sadly, not all that were part of this operation were “squared away” (paying attention) in their actions.

    However, the main topic of this inquisition isn’t aimed at the reason “Fast & Furious” was even necessary to create…odd? The “Foggist” (as I call them), for this Salem Witch Hunt has instituted ground work that says, “…no testimony would be admitted that commented on gun-control laws or legislation…” REALLY?
    Isn’t that the crux of the problem? It really shouldn’t be this hard!!! The Man Upstairs is surely shaking His head in disappointment.

    Establishing and executing some viable, logic, expeditious and speedy trials laws are what should be the REAL focus! Can I get an Amen? It’s not like The US hasn’t seen first-hand examples of what “Fats & Furious” set out to wrangle…focus! Focus! Focus!

    • 13observer

      This administration is not worried about the scourge of “illegal immigration” so why so worried about our civil rights protected by the Second Amendment of our Constitution? Just remember, the same Supreme Court that gave us “OBAMACARE” also gave a clear distinction of our GUN RIGHTS.

  • Issa Has Got A Crimnal Record He’s Just Another American Taliban Members Lying Is What They Do, And Terrorizing People Is How They Roll!!! This Witch Hunt Was Done To Stop The Investigation Of Voter Fraud Done Forever By The GOP!! The Magazine ReporterTold All And It Blew Up In The American Taliban Face!!LOL

    • UTGDI

      Ms Fern though I can appreciate your passion against a percieved evil, I would suggest you stick to points of facts, or at least stay on topic. Each of your posts is a grenade thrown at one individual or another poster, not to mention any organization you do not agree with. You are soon to be disregarded as irrellevant, and unread.

      • I Don’t Give A Damn What You Suggest So You Keep Your Little Fuck Up Opinions You Your Damn Self!!!!

      • You Are A No Doubt Ass Kissing ReThug!!

      • Just Who In The Hell You Think You Are??? I Am A Grown Tax Paying Middle Class Educated Women Never Do You And Anybody Else Tell Me What I Can Say And What I Can Do!! If You Don’t Like What I Say Keep It Moving !! In Other Words Shut The Fuck Up Talking To Me I Am So Sick Of You Low Life, Egg Sucking, Chicken Stealing, Butt Sucking GOP/Tea Party Gutter Trash!!! Trying To Get A SOCIOPATH In Office Who Made His Money Strip Businesses And Shipping Jobs Overseas!!! Screw You!!

        • UTGDI

          It was only a suggestion — BTW I am not a republican, so I’ll leave you to your views of the world.

          What color is the sky there by the way?

          So Fire Away! At this point I consider the source.

          • What Part Of Stop Talking To Me Don’t You Understand????? SCREW YOU!!

          • LOL All T Your Typing Is A Waste Of Your Time NOBODY LIKE YOU!!!LOL

          • Blue Just Like Any Other Person That’s Sane Is!! And Your Point Is ???? Koch Brothers Butt Sucker!!

      • And Now The Grenade Is Heading Your Way !! What You Thought You Can Tell Me What To Say!! I Beg The Differ!! STFU TALKING TO ME!!

      • And Nobody Likes Any Of Your Posting LOL I Got Lots Of Likes On A Lots Of These Threads LOL

    • 13observer

      Sorry Fern, can I call you Fern? Guns are here to stay forever because we love them and because the left wants their lust to get rid of them spoil there political ambitions everytime! You people don’t understand… at the end of the day…everyone loves guns and obviously alot more people DO than DON’T. God Bless the NRA and all those who love it.

      • I Have No Problems With Guns My Photo Here Come From My Gun Card !! My Problem Is That This Was Just A Wastes Of My Tax Dollars And They Should Be Trying To Fix Some Real Problems That’s Going On Here In America!!

        • UTGDI

          Congratulations, a coherent statement that someone can agree with. Civil discourse is what I strive for, not whether someone clicks like or not, when I trash on a person or organization. BTW, I can totally agree that tax dollars were needlessly wasted by this witch hunt / search for truth / however you choose to characterize it. Cheers!


    The Real Reason

    Obviously Issa is miffed because two previous attempts by the Bush administration, Gun Runner and Wide Receiver, failed miserably while Fast and Furious did achieve many intended goals.

    When this pattern happened in the past, the American Taliban Republican anti-everythings put on their Karl Rove caps and try to pass their inabilities on to others.

    Current events are merely a smattering of what Washington would be like should the American public be dumb enough to elect the previously Republican Party-rejected Mitt Romney. It would appear that party should expend more effort in selecting viable candidates rather than attempting to manufacture faults in their opponents.

  • Which is worse: a president who inherits a gun problem from a previous administration and tries to fix it or a congressman who doesn’t try to fix the problem ( but could if he tried, because congress actually CAN pass laws ) . Meanwhile , Issa holds endless meetings trying to politically embarrass the president in an election year. So –which is worse: an intentional do nothing congressman or a president who can , in effect, do nothing because Congess won’t allow him to— for their own political gain ?

  • rustacus21

    Goodness!!! No testimony. No evidence. No acknowledgment this is the very SAME program w/the very SAME intent, begun in 2006, by the previous administration, that was ended immediately upon its discovery, by THIS Justice Dept. Normally, an incoming administration sweeps away all remnants of the previous administration. Those “remnants” obviously were as incompetent during 2001-2009 & continued being so at the point this awful program made its way to the public’s attention. Issa’s shameless preening in the spotlite has gotten no closer to the truth, which I 4 1, say he’s afraid to approach, for fear of what we ALL will discover – the long reach of conservative policy disaster – years – DECADES after the fact. Do we finally have numbers on the cost of 2 ill-advised, disasterous wars & 11 years worth of tax cuts, by the way? Adding to that the tab to this little “INQUISITION”, conservatives will be hard pressed to defend that lie, er, claim, of being “fiscally responsible”…

  • oldtack

    hey hammerhead69

    I questioned what you were and you spilled your venomous guts and proved to me and the world that my assessment of you was 100% correct.

    I don’t believe in God? I believe in global warming? I’m a cop out?

    Did you get this information about me from the Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent Great I AM, the Creator most people call God? Or did you get all of your information from Rush and Glenn?

    Crawl out from beneath your rock and see the light.

  • It’s to bad the guns don’t get used on the people who feel no controls should be imposed!

  • Melvin Chatman

    “Slave Mentality” on display for those who didn’t know what it looked like – THX Masta Issa!

  • My question is ,is’nt mr issa te guy that got caught pushing a stolen corvette down the street???????????????

  • If you want a gun or what we call in the military (weapons), how many do you want. This witch hunt by the republicans is uncalled for. How stupid and you can’t fix stupid. Vote them out,

  • issa would set there for the NRA to have there rights of having fire-arms to sell them for it the rights of the conter. right and he wouldnt care as long as the NRA has it way that these gun dealers can sell arms to ppl. that will use them to kill ppl. in his own country . (as thy already have ) if mexico went to war wioth the swtates issa would want to hold the rights for the NRA and selling arms even if thy was sold to ppl. useing them to kill ppl. in the states . maybe what might happen is one of the gun could be used to take a shot at his melon. just to prove a point . dont sound like a bad idea to me

  • All should read the Fortune article on this issue. It brings a factual perspective, one that ISSA will not release. It is not uncommon that ‘guns going to Mexico’ come from all states along the border. For example, one can go to a gun show in Texas and watch the transactions being made in real time.

    Gun dealers in Texas are very upset, since this issue has brought it to national attention and it is hurting their business!