By Gene Lyons

The Difficulty Of Debating A Clever Liar

October 10, 2012 12:00 am Category: Memo Pad 137 Comments A+ / A-
The Difficulty Of Debating A Clever Liar

”You can say anything you want during a debate and 80 million people hear it,” observed Peter Teeley, press secretary to Vice President Bush. If reporters then document that a candidate spoke untruthfully, ”so what?”
New York Times, November 1, 1984

Barring a total meltdown—such as forgetting to wear pants or calling for war with Canada—there was no way Mitt Romney wasn’t going to be declared the winner of his first debate with President Obama.

As a TV show, the debates resemble “American Idol” for politicians. They give the nation’s esteemed political media—TV news channels in particular—their best chance to exercise power. And what TV networks need is a close presidential race, driving up ratings and enhancing their self-importance.

For that to happen, Romney had to win.

It’s also true that with the exception of Clinton-Dole in 1996, incumbent presidents have been declared first debate losers every time. Ronald Reagan performed so badly in 1984 that observers wondered if he’d grown senile. (We now know his Alzheimer’s disease was in its beginning stages.) George W. Bush sank in the polls after his first contest with John Kerry.

It’s also a lot harder being president than a mere candidate. President Obama isn’t the first incumbent to find prepping for a TV show a trivial annoyance amid the 24/7 demands of the White House. (Not to mention of the campaign itself.) He’s probably not the first to underestimate his opponent either.

That said, Obama’s oddly phlegmatic performance in Denver gave TV handicappers exactly what they needed to market the campaign as a cliffhanger. The president appeared alternately bored and mildly annoyed—too professorial by half.

New York Times columnist Charles Blow mentioned Xanax; I was thinking Ambien. My mother-in-law in Texas thought Obama acted like a whipped dog. Democrats of a certain age who keep hoping to see the president channel his inner Harry S. Truman found him impersonating Illinois’ own Adlai Stevenson instead—too cerebral to take his own side in a fight.

Was it only last month that journalists wrote profiles describing Obama as competitive to the point of cockiness? Where did that guy go?

An awful lot of it was “mere theatrics,” as it’s tempting to say. On paper, Obama did substantively better. But scary as it is, a TV game show is exactly how Americans choose the so-called “Leader of the Free World.” How can the president’s “handlers” not have reminded him to speak directly into the camera? To look his opponent in the eye?

But the president’s biggest problem with Mitt Romney was the same one Newt Gingrich (of all people) complained about during the GOP debates: the extreme difficulty of debating a clever liar.

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The Difficulty Of Debating A Clever Liar Reviewed by on . ''You can say anything you want during a debate and 80 million people hear it,'' observed Peter Teeley, press secretary to Vice President Bush. If reporters the ''You can say anything you want during a debate and 80 million people hear it,'' observed Peter Teeley, press secretary to Vice President Bush. If reporters the Rating:

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Comments

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_B6RROC4IUESHT322QS5VJVPYRM Lynda

    Fear, distrust and lying all work very well on the low information voters in this country. The proof is in the nice little bumb Ryan/Romney got this last week. Like most bumps it too will fade as the next ‘story’ comes out. The 47% tape is already old news to the mass of rubes and they’ve forgiven or forgotten the insult to nearly half of the country.

  • bcarreiro

    theres nothing clever about him……..he cuts corners, he’s half fast and will abuse the system
    instead of working for an honest living.

  • bacalove

    CNN & Fox News play into and uphold Romney’s lies and fail to expose him. There is very true media anymore, all brought by Big Money! Supreme Court too. America is losing her democracy & her Soul!

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Fox news is one of the driving machines in the RepublicanParty.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

    There is no question that the main beneficiary of Romney’s bounce is the media. After months of Obama leading in every poll, and an electoral map that suggested a landslide for Obama, people were starting to lose interest in what most Americans thought was a foregone conclusion. Romney’s bounce gives the media the attention they need to prolong advertising, and the huge revenues that come with it, until the bitter end. Even if Romney’s bounce proves to be short lived, it raised enough hope among the faithful to keep them engaged, and that is exactly what the media and those who make a living from political campaigns wanted.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TT6POTCLZCE74T76WAJIIIUAHU frida

      You are quite right Dominick Vila. I remember as soon as the debate was over, I went to Fox News Website and it was written: “No knock out in the debate, way to go!” After less than an hour, I heard, he is the winner (Romney), he has won the debate coming from the same network which wrote earlier that there were no knock out. The article disappeared completely in a matter of a second. Every where I was tuning on they were declaring Romney the winner. To make the matter worse, CNN gave a snap poll which even my 10 years kid could not believe it. It is all about media frenzy and making business for their survival.

    • http://www.facebook.com/fern.woodfork Fern Woodfork

      Yes They Win Sell More Ads!! Money Is What’s Moving All Of This Election!! When Some People Can Be Bought With Lies And Cheating This World Is In Sad Shape!!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Celia-N-Espinosa/100000486351546 Celia N Espinosa

        Listen, this is the Romney’s (Robmey the Liar) MOMENTUM!…..that’s all it is….Now is when tha battle starts!.tomorrow JOE BIDEN….will open the roads for President Obama next to fights against that LIAR!..and is when President Obama…needs to forget he is the PRESIDENT OF USA!! and tell! directly to this LIAR’S FACE!! 47% humiliation to almost a 160million of American’s, including myself!
        that was Mitt Romney’s performance of his life…and the most sincere ever!!! he did not lie when he said that Obama’s 47% followers? where moochers, freeloaders, that they wanted everything for free…! the medical, the housing, free food????…..ok Mitt!!! that was the most truthful moment…no you didn’t LIE then!!!!…….so all of us the 47% won’t change our minds…..On election day!!!!! will vote OBAMA! and many of them….will vote for ROSEANNE!!!!!!!!! F@@@@@CK U..ROBMEY!

        • ALLLLAMERICAN

          Go on youtube and look for free phones—houses—gas

      • mrbluesays

        well start bending over now!

    • old_blu

      Dominick, I agree it is the media and the commercial side of this that wins. I think most of us are close to having our minds made up before the debates even start.

      I was glad to see that the incumbents most of the time lose the first one, I suspect the President will be better prepaired for the next one.

      • Dianes4babies

        I, too, was happy to hear that the incumbent most generally loses the first time. I so hope that is true this time! And the pressure is on Joe Biden to do what his boss failed to do!

        • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

          President Obama will kick butt during the next debate…and Romney knows it.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/ES2UMKTR4CDLPP22JNGQN3Z7SE Jackmack

            hey Dominick you got it right

          • http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

            obambob can’t do anything but lie cheat and steal.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/QXUFSMTKTK3UCL3ZFPJPONXAVM mac macey

            Hehe. interesting GOP propaganda. You got a purdy mouth.

          • 1guy2

            Not much in the noggin,but a purdy mouth

          • G. Macher

            Do have money to back that up?

          • http://www.facebook.com/clarence.swinney Clarence Swinney

            Wow! Keep dreaming As I do
            We lose this time it is curtains for Middle Class which since 2000 has declined in numbers
            We rank 4th on Inequality in oecd.
            Richest nation on earth for top 10%

            The good old days–plenty good jobs–pensions health care
            affordable homes–1945-1980–It took 2.5 Years of averge income to buy an average size home. 5.4 years under Bush.

        • http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

          The are both dolts. A pair of un-american traitors.

        • G. Macher

          Are you serious? “The Giants are going to the SuperBowl”, Joe. (He said that in San Francisco.) Biden will do even worse than Obama. Wake up libtards, you voted for Obama because he was black. He had no accomplishments to deserve your vote in 2008. His record since then doesn’t deserve a vote in 2012, either. Monumental value. Worst president ever and yes I’m including Jiminy Carter, FDR, and LBJ!

          • old_blu

            But not Bush?

          • dranyamelknur

            How could any president be rated worse than G W Bush? He took peace and prosperity and turned it into ineptitutde on domestic and foreign fronts.
            Either you think 9/11 and the anthrax letters show deliberate, vicious and calculating false flag operations, as I do, or you have to accept them as the most incredible ignorance, indifference and bungling on the part of the most overpaid and supplied military ever. The fact that NORAD’s response was made dependent on a signal from the President, Vice-President or the Secretary of Defense(For the First Time Ever) and none was given is unforgivable in itself.
            These incidents were then used as an excuse to launch two totally avoidable wars.
            If all we really wanted was Osama bin Laden, why didn’t we get him at Tora Bora? If the WTC were helpless to fend off the planes the buildings should not still fragment into tiny pieces, and Building Seven was NOT even hit by a plane and did not have substantial fire damage! More preposterous was the Pentagon Strike with NO defenses. That would have to be the greatest improbability of all, that the world’s best defended building somehowtotally mismanaged its defenses. Norman Minetta witnessed Cheney getting updates on the approach of Fl. 77. Yet all those military bigshots got huge promotions.
            Then the attacks on our Constitutional rights – horrendous.!The invasion of human rights through torture. Of course, you can get false confessions and make new, real militants by using inhumane treatment.
            The rip-off by war profiteers was incredible.
            The elimination of wealth by the Big Banks and Wall Street profligacy and malfeasance almost proved critical.
            Yet, somehow, as usual, a sounder , saner approach to governance leaves us gradually emerging. Now, you want to turn the reins back over to the man who made Massachusetts third to last in job growth and last in per capita debt in the country.Whose claim to fame and reason for riches is vulture capitalism and $2.7 billion taxpayer bailout for the Utah Olympics.

      • http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

        The sane people hope the idiot in chief dies at the podium like he did the first time. I would like to see him choke again.

        • 1guy2

          Richard?? are you feeling well??

    • http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

      You are not the faithful. You are traitors to America. bambutt is the devel spawn demon of islaim. All you ignorant people will burn at the devels’ feet with him.

      • DurdyDawg

        Whatta blithering idiot. Go wash you’re mouth out with soap you religious sicko fanatic. You think you’re god? Damning others to hell? What a psychotic a-hole. Now…

      • jarheadgene

        You are a child, come back when you’ve weathered a few storms kid. These posts are for grown-ups.

      • JudeLawGuardian

        Jesus. If you’re gonna’ spew crap about Obama, at LEAST learn how to spell the religion. It’s “ISLAM”, NOT “ISLAIM, you backwoods, religitard fundie.

  • http://twitter.com/DaveSpeakinOut Dave

    Har har, Gene Lyons and you democrat left wingers give it up! No one loses a debate deliberately! Come on guys. Face it, you lost, Obama lost, and he’ll lose again. And, most importantly, he wont win another term.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TT6POTCLZCE74T76WAJIIIUAHU frida

    Romney is not only a clever liar, he is really a “Professional Liar.” It needs one to use his/her IQ he has to differentiate/figure out between the lies and the truth. Nevertheless, I am not happy of the outcome of the debate, but at the same time am happy that it has given life in this competitive race. Remember folks, it is not over until it is over in politics. There is a lot to come in this few weeks remaining to the final date (6 Nov.)!

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      That is his background, selling systems.

  • jjjshelen

    By replaying the sound bites, our president can clearly demonstrate that Willard is a liar. In addition, why should our president need to stand on stage and even talk with such a liar? We as Americans should be outraged that Willard would demonstrate with his lies that he does not think much of our intelligence.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sarita.alicea Sarita Alicea

    I don’t like Romney because he does not tell the truth! I do like Obama, he has done a lot, & have not done more because of Republic majority Congress doesn’t let him! Thank you,
    Sara Alicea

  • http://www.facebook.com/sarita.alicea Sarita Alicea

    I don’t like Mr. Romney because he doesn’t tell the truth! Mr. President Obama has done a lot when Congress majority was democrat, but when the majority has been Republican they don’t let him do anything!

    • neece00

      Your right Sarita, but we somehow need to convince the other side of the lies.

  • JohnRNC

    What a whiny cop-out. Maybe if the the media actually did it’s job – reporting the news instead of creating the news via speculation and editing – oh, sorry, it’ not about journalism anymore it’s about sales….

    The outcome of this debate didn’t require any translation or explanation. Obama didn’t show up and Romney did. If Obama wants a second term, he needs to show up next time.

    Anybody want to hire me for my penetrating analytical abilities?

    • neece00

      Romney did show up but the question is, which Mitt Romney? Was it the moderate one, the Tea Bagger one or the conservative one. No one knows who he will be and that should warn you about his running this country, which Mitt Romney will run the country.

      • JohnRNC

        A valid point. Unfortunately, according to the polls, content and honesty are less important than bravado – just ask Jimmy Carter

        • neece00

          But bravado does not prove competence to run a country.

          • JohnRNC

            Of course not, but this is not an issue of competence – it’s an issue of image. If the Public were listening to the content, this would not be a tight race because no one would trust a chameleon liar. Clearly, many Americans are more impressed with image than with character or substance. Jimmy Carter had the same problem with Reagan who spoke eloquently and with inspiration. The content of Reagan’s speeches, however, were both nonsensical and frightening [not to mention the questionable math]. Reagan won based on the way he made people FEEL, not because of his competence.

            Romney showed a very scary side of himself in the debate. The ability to lie so convincingly that the lies gain acceptance by a large number of voters.

    • DukeDacat

      NO!!!!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/VZIHVXZSOR4LBQND2HPA3PPKUY Howard

    More debates to come, and the media keeps on singing, “In the mean time, in between time, ain’t we got fun?” And they do.

  • RGILLL

    After watching the debate I continue to hear numerous people comment on Romney lying. I’m always curious to ask them some specific questions. Typically, as with this author, there is no contact information with which one may challenge these very broad, non specific accusations. For example I would like to know which of the following things I recall Gov. Romney stating that are lies.
    1. Did Obama not fund renewable to the tune of $90 billion.
    2. Is that not 50 years worth of what was done for the oil and gas.
    3. Is it not true that most of the $2.8 billion Romney mentioned goes to small drillers an not to Exxon etc.
    4. This author claims that most of the debt accumulated during the Obama administration is due to the Bush and Obama’s efforts to prevent a depression. If this is true please elaborate by providing the specifics, what was spent and how successful was it.
    5. The author claims that Obamacare and Romneycare are the same bill. If this is true are the distinctions that Romney made during the debate false? Does Mass. have a board of 15 non medical persons responsible for choosing what medical care will be funded.
    6. He claims that only less than 11% of the firms and less than 5% of the funds for loan guarantees have been lost. If this is true please list the firms that are currently making money and paying off their loans. Does anyone really believe that if 89% of the firms that Obama funded are doing well, given his extreme touting of the few successes they’ve had (Usama is dead!) wouldn’t this president be touting these great choices over and over on national media. Wouldn’t his surrogates be discussing these relentlessly.

    These six points are only the ones that literally jump off the page for further exploration.

  • LittleStream

    Did he win are did he sneak in good notes, which he wasn’t supposed to do?

    • Dave

      You don’t need notes to lie.

  • 1guy2

    Most of us know Romney lied about EVERYTHING,but what hurts,is all the uninformed listeners,that doesn’t know he’s lying,and thinks he’s a wonderful person…cheez. Typical GOP,is to lie yourself in and out of anything that benefits you,and these uninformed people,never learn anything.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      A whole lot of people are proud of their ignorance and think it is a virtue.

  • William Deutschlander

    The only choice Obama had was to say I can not counter a barrage of LIES and DECEIT, and then walk off the stage.

    I find it very intersting that Romney stands tall and LIES, then one hour later his Fehnstrom says Romney did not mean that, saying his original position on the matter is Romney’s position, sad part is 75% of the country will never hear Fehnstrom change Romney’s position, DECEIT.

  • montanabill

    This is below silliness, claiming the media wanted Romney to win the debate. There is no way an in-the-tank media even wants a close race, so get serious. They were simply forced to report on what 60+ million actually saw. Not the caricature Romney painted by the Obama campaign, but a real, knowledgeable leader. The same man that worked his way through college, created and built a highly successful business that gave birth to many other successful businesses, saved an Olympics from disaster and a very successful Governor who made bi-partisan work.

    When your strategy becomes calling the other guy a liar and etch-a-sketch, using a ridiculously distorted ‘Big Bird’ argument and having a foreign policy that says there is no terrorism, good luck.

    Even claiming Romney wants to go back to the ‘failed policies of the past’ is ludicrous. Those ‘failed policies’ built the greatest nation on earth. It was the ‘do good’ CRA, a Democrat Congress and a few unscrupulous financial guys (from both sides) that created the mess this President flounders at handling. Romney is certainly not advocating a return to loose lending.

    • http://www.facebook.com/blake.faulkner.7 Blake Faulkner

      Montanabill…He was not a successful governor. The Massachesetts legislature rejected almost all of his proposals as Governor. Except for one. ‘Romneycare’. Which is exactly what Obamacare is modelled after. Including the universal individual mandate to buy health insurance by every Massachusetts citizen. You know…what he is attacking Obama for now. And the Massachusetts voters did not consider Romney a very successful Governor who made bi-partisanship work…Although he did get a major assist in selling it to his generally oppositional & uncooperative legislature…by that crafty old Liberal Ted Kennedy. You know, Romney’s old poltical nemesis & debate ‘smackdown’ teacher…who gave him a hard lesson in humility in a previous run for Kennedy’s job as Senator. I guess you could call that bi-partisanship. However, the Massachusetts voters made Romney a one-term Governor didn’t they?…You call THAT successful?…OhhhKayyy.

      • montanabill

        Just because a legislature controlled by the opposition party rejects most of your proposals can hardly be used as the measure of success. He and his legislature managed to turn employment around, and as the state requires, reach a balanced budget without raising taxes. Sure they raised some fees, but many of those were in need of restructuring. Actually, though I like places like Boston, Springfield and Pittsfield, I have very little respect for the people of MA who would continually vote Ted Kennedy back into office. He was certainly not my idea of a quality person. I guess you could call him successful since he managed to avoid jail.

    • old_blu

      Good morning bill. Are you sure he saved the Olympics? It was the American tax payer that doled out the 1.5 billion he needed to save them, that was 625,000 in tax payer money per athlete.

      • montanabill

        Perfect example of liberal reporting. Just a few missing items of information.
        The total cost of the Salt Lake Olympics was $1.2 billion. A substantial part of it due to the increase security required since they occurred just 5 months after 9/11.
        You also failed to note that the debt was paid off the same year and they had a $101 million profit.

        • old_blu

          Ahh, you are right it was 1.2 billion, but I think we still paid for it in a round about way cuz he spent alot of that money in China, and I know that is good business cuz it makes money. But what about the local people that could have used the job, and the money?

          There is more to being President than just business.

          • montanabill

            Not sure where you got the info that a lot of money was spent in China. The Government Accountability Office said more than half of the funding went to security, drug testing and shuttle buses. The funding also helped the city pay to build highways and a light-rail line. Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson, a Democrat, worked with Romney to secure the federal funding.

    • Sand_Cat

      If you can’t deal with reality, just head for the hills, montanabill.
      Why don’t you head for the wilderness? No thanks to you and your fellow Republicans, there’s probably still enough left to absorb some of the lunatics and misfits, even today.

      What is an “in-the-tank” media? Are you referring, perhaps, to that well-known (among right-wing lunatics, anyway) “liberal bias”?

      What “highly successful” businesses did Mr. Romney’s Bain create, and just what was it at which they were “highly successful”?

      And – of course – its our “stategy” to call him a liar; the fact that he probably couldn’t tell the truth even in the unlikely event he tried has nothing to do with it.

      The policies Mr. Romney pushes did build “the greatest nation on earth”; that is, if you consider our current state “the greatest.”

      What built this nation – unfortunately aided and abetted by some murder and larceny by people like modern-day Republicans – was a feeling of common purpose, and the willingness to sacrifice, not just to enrich oneself, but for the good of the nation. Such concepts are completely foreign to the Rand-obsessed moral and ethical pygmies who control the Republicans today, except perhaps the murder and larceny for one’s own enrichment part.

      • montanabill

        I’m referring to NBC, CBS, ABC, NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Associated Press and my own local newspaper, just to start a list. Since you agree with most of their stories, you probably don’t notice the slant or missing stories.

        The primary highly successful business Romney started was Bain & Company. After he left, he was asked to return when the company found itself in a dire situation. Bain & Co.’s turnaround was an incredible success: In just a year, a company on the brink had returned to profitability. Mitt Romney not only saved thousands of jobs, but also set the firm on a course to be one of the largest and most successful management consulting firms in the world. Today, Boston-based Bain & Co. has more than 5,000 employees – including 3,500 consultants – and is ranked #1 on multiple “best places to work” lists.
        Mitt Romney and Bain Capital invested in Staples as a startup to give it a chance to grow. Today it provides over 87,700 jobs.
        In 1994, Bain Capital helped make Steel Dynamics possible by joining with GE to provide critical venture capital funding in a costly and struggling industry. In less than 20 years, Steel Dynamics has become America’s fifth-largest producer of carbon-steel products with $8 billion in revenues. It is one of just six major American steel companies.
        During Bain’s Brookstone investment, the company opened more than 100 stores and added more than 740 jobs across the United States. Brookstone’s revenues nearly tripled from $95 million to $270 million. Today, Brookstone is one of New Hampshire’s largest corporations, and the growth that began during Bain Capital’s investment has continued. Brookstone has subsequently added more than 1,100 employees across 294 retail stores in the United States. And in 2011, Brookstone recorded nearly half a billion dollars in revenues.
        GoCom was a small group of television stations when Bain Capital partnered with them to help grow the company. Bain Capital invested $100 million dollars, and GoCom was able to expand from four to ten television stations across the United States. Thanks to strong management and the support of Bain Capital, GoCom was able to increase ad sales, increase revenues and increase employment. When Bain Capital sold its stake in GoCom, the merged company had grown to 800 employees with revenues of $80 million.
        Colorado-based Sports Authority was just a startup when Mitt Romney and Bain Capital invested in the idea and helped get it off the ground. Today it’s a 15,000-person company.

        Those are just a few, but you get the idea.

        Speaking of liars, the State Department outed Obama, Rice, Hillary, Carney, et al for their little story about Benghazi and the ‘spontaneous riots’.

        You’ve been watching too many TV shows about ‘wicked’ business people.

    • jarheadgene

      YEEHHHAAAWWWW MONTANA BILL…..WILLARD DID NOT WORK his way through college…..UNLESS…the “YOU PEOPLE” queen ANNE Romney is a LIAR! LIKE HER HUSBAND. During her interviews, when he ran a failed campaign for Senator, against Ted Kennedy, she said they lived off of STOCK shares George Romney gave them the entire time of college. And saved many successful businesses……HAH….he and his team would walk in, saddle failing companies with huge high interest loans of debt, take their multi-million dollars out as compensation for “straightening” things out and walk away leaving many of the companies to default on the loans Romney helped set up…..SOME HERO. Guess it isn’t a far stretch for his wife to be a LIAR ….since he himself says his SON’s ARE LIARS…..”OUT of the HORSES MOUTH!”

      • montanabill

        Nice story. Have another magic mushroom?

        • jarheadgene

          You’re right Anne Romney’s story…..she said it! Do you want the link to her interviews? They are on YOU TUBE. Or do you want to live in your Republican bubble. Again you must be one of these two guys.

          • montanabill

            What she said was that Mitt had enough investment in stock that they could sell a little of it from time to time. This was portrayed by the left as ‘living off investment income’. In reality, it was living off savings. If it was truly as much money as depicted by critics, they would not have been living in a $62 apartment, walking and scrimping. They were certainly far better off than I was during college years, but they were not living what I would call the high life.
            Like cartoons?

          • jarheadgene

            In 1969 ….$ 69.00 paid for a pretty decent apt. in most cities. Are you saying Ann and Willard saved their hourly wages to go to college…again that is your inference….NOT TRUE. I believe that is why WILLARD was quoted as saying,”If you need money to go to college, you can just borrow money from your parents.” But you are going off point of this article. I mean if you want to talk about Willards youth we can….see the hypocritical draft dodger below……

          • montanabill

            Excuse me, jarhead, but I was 29 in 69, just out of college and know better. He wasn’t anymore a hypocritical draft dodger than anyone else. He had a family and you don’t know what his draft number was. I was draft age in the 60′s, but never got the letter. Even if I had, I had two children by 62. Save your vitriol for something that’s true.

          • jarheadgene

            Montana…. In 65 my brother was in the USMC, living off of a little more than $100 a month, had a wife and decent 1 bedroom apt. in San Diego, CA. In 1968, my first cousin died in Vietnam, while serving in the USMC. I was USMC active duty 1980-84. The picture below was taken circa 1965, Willard was in college…no wife…no kids yet. Since you asked, what makes him a HYPOCRITICAL DRAFT DODGER is that he was protesting in favor of the war and in favor of the draft. THEN he took his MORMON draft differment and ran off to France as a moron missionary…..didn’t matter what his draft number was…he nor his sons nor his dad….nor his grandad…nor his grandchildren will EVER SERVE in this country’s military. If you sense “VITRIOL” it may be because my family has been serving this country from WWI to IRAQ(my nephew in the Army).

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        HEEEEYYYYY, speaking of a horse’s mouth—-
        Why don’t they strap some braces on that, buck tooth BIG horse’s mouth michelle obama.
        It makes me SICK to look at her.

        • 1guy2

          If you have to talk about someone (ANYONE) in that manner,one has to have reservations about your intelligence

          • ALLLLAMERICAN

            SHE IS GROSS—-
            How much intelligence do you need to SEEE those
            horse teeth—Brace them down!!!!

          • jarheadgene

            Typical GOP…judging by LOOKS….that is so shallow. Aren’t you the guy…I slammed about your AMERICAN pedigree when you basically called me a “beaner”? BTW I only do that to redneck a-holes who forgot whose land was stolen here, (my ancestors)otherwise; I say, born in America…you are American, I don’t care what your race or heritage is.

      • old_blu

        They need to ask the people at American Pad and Paper what a good job Romney and Bain did.

    • gmccpa

      Who says he was a very successful governor? Certainly not the people he governed. Mass. will go Obama in a big way.

    • grammyjill

      You are oh so wrong about his term as govenor. He sucked! That might be why he’s trailing Obama by 28% in Mass. The people that know him best.

      • montanabill

        That’s pretty close to the registered Democrat advantage in a very liberal state.

        • grammyjill

          I live in NH very close to the Mass border. He was a very bad govenor. Why do you think he was there only one term? He could have tried to get re elected. I have my own thoughts on that having watched it on the nightly news but you wouldn’t believe me cause you think I’m some damn liberal lyar, but I’m not the only one that thinks it. Think about this: he raised fees on several things, he cut education, he oked the big dig. The contracts for that are questionable since they were his buddies. They used substandard materials. Part of the ceiling fell and killed a woman. Anyway, he raised fees so they couldn’t be called taxes, he didn’t put one cent into infrastructure. So, lots of money coming in none going out. I do mean none! He left office with an 18 billion dollar deficit. And the big dig is still a costly problem. So, money coming in none going out and an 18 billion dollar deficit. Where did the money go? No one can find out cause he took ALL the records with him. Would you trust that? I don’t.

          • montanabill

            The real truth:

            The claim that job creation in Massachusetts “fell” to 47th under Romney. That’s a bit misleading. Massachusetts’ state ranking for job growth went from 50th the year before he took office, to 28th in his final year. It was 47th for the whole of his four-year tenure, but it was improving, not declining, when he left.
            The claim that Romney “cut taxes for millionaires” isn’t as black-and-white as billed. Romney opposed a plan to impose a capital gains tax retroactively, insisting on delaying the hike eight months. That’s different than pushing for a tax cut.
            The claims that Romney raised taxes on the middle class. It’s true that Romney imposed a number of fees, but none of them targeted middle-income persons. Also, Romney proposed cutting the state income tax three times — a measure that would have resulted in tax cuts for all taxpayers — but he was rebuffed every time by the state’s Democratic Legislature.
            The claims Romney “left the state $2.6 billion deeper in debt.” It’s true that long-term bond debt — used for capital improvements — rose under Romney, as it had in the years before he took office. But Romney wasn’t piling up yearly deficits to support operating expenses the way the federal government is, because Massachusetts requires balanced budgets.
            The claims that when Romney was governor, “Massachusetts lost 40,000 manufacturing jobs, a rate twice the national average.” That’s close to true, but the state lost a greater number of manufacturing jobs in the four years before Romney took office, and more in the four years after he left. In fact, the rate of job loss in manufacturing slowed during Romney’s time as governor.
            The claims Romney “outsourced call center jobs to India.” Not exactly. What he did was veto a measure that would have prevented the state from doing business with a state contractor that was locating state customer-service calls in India. Democrats who controlled the Legislature could have overridden the veto, but didn’t. The veto was supported by leading newspapers as a savings to taxpayers.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JMT6C3LHLJDD4RX4NB4KY5ICAE gargray

    The people who think Romney won were not listing to the words he was saying. Like I say republicans live in a shell and only one way out.

  • Fairplay4

    It is remarkable how fungible the public can be. Intelligent people are not taken in by these staged events and they see through the lies. It is a shame that profit is the driving force behind these ugly machinations.

  • ObozoMustGo

    DISTRACTIONS………. DISTRACTIONS……………. DISTRACTIONS………………..

    All of this nonsense is nothing more than a distraction away from what a loser and failure Obozo has been.

    YOUR PRESIDENT HAS BEEN LYING TO YOU AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR A MONTH OVER WHAT HAPPENED IN LIBYA ON 9/11. THE TRUTH IS COMING OUT. EVEN ABC NEWS IS ON IT….

    abcnews dot go dot com/International/attack-benghazi-consulate-unprecedented-state-department-official/story?id=17438780#.UHWBtRXLSSo

    [Replace the dot with a period. they dont allow links on here]

    THIS SCANDLE IS 100 TIMES WORSE THAN WATERGATE. OBOZO MADE THE CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO NOT BACKUP THE AMBASSADOR IN LIBYA WITH MORE SECURITY. THERE WAS NO PROTEST OUTSIDE. IT WAS A PLANNED AND DELIBERATE ATTACK ON AMERICAN SOVEREIGN PROPERTY AND PEOPLE. OBOZO KNEW IT BEFORE HAND. OBOZO CHOSE TO GO TO A FUND RAISER INSTEAD. OBOZO THEN CHOSE TO GO TO BED INSTEAD OF DEALING WITH THE CRISIS. THE STATE DEPARTMENT NOW ADMITS THEY KNEW IT WAS A TERRORIST ATTACK RIGHT AWAY. OBOZO CHOOSES TO BLAME A STUPID 2-BIT FILM FOR THE INCIDENT AND CONTINUED WITH THAT LIE FOR WEEKS, EVEN MAKING SPEECHES TO THE U.N. WITH THAT LIE.

    QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED:

    WHY WAS THE AMBASSADOR IN BENGHAZI ON 9/11 WITH NO SECURITY?
    WHY WAS THE AMBASSADOR’S REQUESTS FOR ENHANCED SECURITY IGNORED AND DENIED?
    WHAT WAS THE AMBASSADOR DOING THERE ANYWAY?
    WHERE DID THE TERRORISTS GET THE HIGH TECH WEAPONS THEY USED AGAINST US?
    WHY DID OBOZO KEEP LYING TO AMERICA ABOUT THE INCIDENT?
    WHAT IS OBOZO HIDING?

    You people that are supporters of Obozo had better wake up. He has been lying to you and playing you for a fool. This scandle is disgusting. Obozo has blood on his hands and he is lying to you.

    Have a nice day!

    [click image to enlarge and read the quote from Thomas Sowell]

    • Sand_Cat

      I see you’re obsessed – like most wing nuts – with saying everything is “worse than Watergate,” without being bright enough to realize that you also say that Watergate was nothing, a trumped-up, politically-driven attack on a president. So naturally, if the president forgets to say “excuse me” or “thank you” at the appropriate times, it’s WORSE THAN WATERGATE, by your reckoning.

      The failure to “backup…with more security” is based on your assumption that Obama had knowledge beforehand; otherwise, there was no reason to do so, and good reason not to (it would provoke the militants in Libya and those in Washingon on the Repugnant side of the aisle).

      Then we come to your and other Republicans’ idiotic tit-for-tat on 9/11 about prior warning, which of course Bush had and ignored at a cost of over 3,000 lives, so of course Obama ignored prior warning at a cost of even more – wait, did you say 4?

      I don’t know why I waste my time answering obviously unhinged people; should I say I’m “compassionate” and want to help you feel like something other than the insignificant vermin you actually are?

      • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

        Sand, and these obsessive idee fixes shout to cover their ignorance.

      • ObozoMustGo

        Cat…. you are a classic leftist freak. Nothing short of a total and complete moron. Witness your own statement:

        “The failure to “backup…with more security” is based on your assumption that Obama had knowledge beforehand; otherwise, there was no reason to do so, and good reason not to (it would provoke the militants in Libya and those in Washingon on the Repugnant side of the aisle”

        First off, he did know long in advance. Secondly, he’s a moron just like you for thinking that putting more security in place will provoke the madness out of the already mad islamo fascist terrorists. Uhhhhh….. hey stupid…… they planned and executed a military style attack against sovereign American soil and our Ambassador who is dead. Our lack of security CLEARLY did not have the intended affect of keeping the savage animals at bay, now did it you effing idiot? How stupid can you be? Clearly, just as stupid as Obozo. Do you work for the moron in chief? You must. He only surrounds himself with incompetent boobs and Marxist dreamers.

        Have a nice day!

        “Blaming a 2-bit film for radical islamic violence is like blaming forks for obesity” – ObozoMustGo

        • grammyjill

          The ambassador had five guards with him and fifteen libyan guards . One of those guards testified today. He said that no amount of boots on the ground would have changed anything. And by the way, it was the republicans that cut the money for security, and when the President went to the to get the money to send more to Libya they said no.
          Stuff those facts in your hat.

          • ALLLLAMERICAN

            We now know that Obama himself was AWARE that Stevens’ requests for more security had been denied BY his administration:

            The Obama Administration, has been proven time and again to be serial liars and beyond reproach.

            We know that not only did Obama NOT give Ambassador Chris Stevens more security as he had repeatedly asked for, but that he actually CUT Steven’s security prior to the attack on the compound which led to his murder and to the murders of three other Americans:
            The evidence is so overwhelming that this is a lie and a cover-up that far exceeds ANYTHING that ever happened in Watergate. Obama should not only be forced out of office, he should be criminally prosecuted just as he wanted to criminally prosecute the brave CIA officials whose “crime” was doing their duty in waterboarding three terrorists (who ultimately gave us Osama bin Laden).
            Mitt Romney needs to punch Obama in the face with these facts and simply keep on punching him so that the American people may know just how utterly depraved Barack Obama is in the murder of the first United States Ambassador to be murdered since Jimmy Carter held the title of “most failed president in history.”

            The real smoking gun here is whether the Obama administration was warned in advance that al-Qaeda was planning an attack. A number of Israeli newspapers have suggested that Washington was warned as early as September 4 – a week earlier – that the environment in Benghazi was becoming increasingly hostile and anti-American, while in London the Foreign Office took the decision to withdraw all its consular staff from Benghazi two months before the murders.

            Two-hundred and thirty documented security incidents in Libya. That’s right: 230 documented security incidents prior to Obama pulling out the security team that could have saved Ambassador Stevens’ and the other Americans lives:

            Are you Libs getting this?

            Do you understand how truly despicable and reckless Barack Hussein Obama’s conduct was?

          • jarheadgene

            Hey “allamerikkkan” did you ever serve in the military? Because I really detest when chickenhawk Republicans talk about foriegn policy and war as if they are some kind of football game. WAR is serious business and people DIE. I apologize if, you served, but you don’t sound like someone who has seen a military uniform other than in the movies. KINDA LIKE WILLARD ROMNEY.

          • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

            And those who don’t die end up with physical and mental scars. You are right about chicken hawks.

            If they think that force beats dialogue, they need to be on the front lines with the rest of the soldiers.

          • ObozoMustGo

            grammy…. here’s the truth..

            Within 24 hours, Obozo knew the attack was a planned and coordinated terrorist attack. Then HE LIED ABOUT IT FOR A MONTH!!! OBOZO BOLD-FACED LIED TO YOU AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!

            Nothing you say can change that fact. The entire world knows that OBOZO IS A LIAR!

            Have a nice day!

            “Blaming a 2-bit film for radical islamic violence is like blaming forks for obesity” – ObozoMustGo

          • grammyjill

            So you weren’t watching when he came out the next day and sent marines, two battleships and drones?

          • ObozoMustGo

            grammy…. uhhhh… in your fantasies he did that… he has done nothing after our sovereign territory was attacked and our ambassador was killed. It was an act of terrorism and your messiah the LIAR IN CHIEF OBOZO will not even admit that simple little fact. Instead, he spends a month lying to your face telling you it was about a YouTube trailer. How stupid are you?

            Any of you useful idiots that still support Obozo are like battered women getting the crap beat out them and still coming back for more. What’s wrong with you? You like getting snot smacked out of you?

            Have a nice day!

            “Blaming a 2-bit film for radical islamic violence is like blaming forks for obesity” – ObozoMustGo

          • grammyjill

            Actually he set 200 marines within hours, and the battleships were sent in that direction at the same time and the drones the next day. He had to get permission from the president there. Also, the libyan government had four under arrest and questioning more within 24 hours. You really should try watching something besides fox. You’re missing alot!

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        WHAT AN IDIOT MORON!!!!!

        A typical Lib can’t accept the FACTS!!!!!!!!

        Obama planned it and had it done!!!!!!!!!!!

        Now trying to hide it——HE IS A TERRORIST!!!!!!

    • DukeDacat

      Poor Obozo, he works so hard all day long as he TROLLs the different web sites……..
      COPY and PASTE…COPY and PASTE…COPY and PASTE… all day long.

      By the way, Obzo the Village says you can return now….
      Have a nice day………..

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        He’s HOPING to get the point across—-
        But is very hopeless in the Lib world.
        The libs hate to hear the facts about anything!!!

        • grammyjill

          I gave him the facts. Now he’s kibbing on the floor.

  • Dave

    How sad for our country that a huckster can go onstage, shamelessly lie about his record, blithely lie about his opponent, repeatedly change his positions like a chameleon, wave and smile like an infomercial salesman peddling an overpriced blender, and be considered the debate “winner.” And the possibility that “winner” might end up in the Oval Office is truly pathetic. Ben Franklin, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson are rolling over in their graves. If Romney wins, America loses.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Dave, did you actually notice he said he was going to save Medicare and Social Security. He should have been asked if he was going to initiate the voucher program and privatize Social Security. Lyin Ryan claims his voucher program is going to save Medicare.

      • Dave

        Maggie, in RomneyLand, privatizing Social Security would be “saving” it. Romney would cut the arms and legs off a patient to “save” him after the patient fractured his arm.

        • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

          …and dismantling MEDICARE is saving the program. The essence of Tea Party lingo is negative logic and contradicting their principles with a straight face. After months of harping about the need to reduce spending, Mitt Romney promised to restore the $716B in savings to be realized through better control of service provider claims without impact to beneficiaries. During his speech at the Virginia Military Institute a few days ago he promised to restore all the DoD programs that have been eliminated to comply with the GOP-driven requirement to cut spending as a condition to raising the national debt ceiling.
          I don’t know what kind of tea these guys drink, but I’ll stick to Earl Grey because I sure as hell don’t want to end up like them.

  • LittleStream

    Then why take the notes in? Why violate the rules of the debate?

  • sylvia tyler

    The general media promotes style over substance. They also like to level things by describing every disagreement on issue as opinions between Dems & Reps. Such as, Congressional Reps & Dems can’t work together, rather than the truth that Republicans made a pact to vote against President Obama, no matter what. They don’t distinguish between fact & opinion enough. Example, it is a fact that our health care system is burdened by insurance and drug company profits. This is what the Republicans are fighting to maintain. Obama and some Democrats understand that we have to reduce their level of profit in order to have healthcare provided to more Americans. They confuse the casual audience who have not connected the dots. True Obama didn’t take advantage at the debate by correcting Romney’s persistent lies on issues like the 717 billion from medicare really reduces the profits of insurance & drug corporations not an increase in cost to the public for service. Also Obama was expected to raise the 47% comment and some of Obama’s supporters wanted to have Romney questioned about the voter suppression in Republican led states. Finally, I don’t think that something as shallow as a 90 minute debate would cause people to vote for Romney instead of Obama.

    • Sand_Cat

      Re your last line, let’s all hope that the voters are as wise and discerning as you think, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      That is why the healthcare industry is lobbying against President Obama. His ACA mandates that 80% of premiums go to healthcare instead of stockholders.

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        Poor Maggie—I hope you don’t get sick to much or the
        Obamacare-Austerity Care
        will submit you to counseling for
        END –OF–LIFE—

        NO MORE CARE FOR YOU!!!!

        Darn it — I hate when you vote for the wrong person!!

  • Ant Duke

    We all expect to see Joe Louis come out of his corner next time…don’t let us down…

  • mrbluesays

    Romney is a 2 faced lier, like his side kick lyin Ryan.

  • Yougottabekiddin

    And so the wailing and knashing of teeth continues…

  • Yougottabekiddin

    make that “gnashing”

  • hilandar1000

    Has anyone heard anything definitive about Romney having notes hidden in his handkerchief? I know Romney had practiced, but it seemed a bit too smooth, compared to his normal flubs (or Freudian slips) when he speaks extemporaneously.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GBTQP5UUDJWNSOIVOD2GESQI54 matumona

    Winning a debate is not going to help someone to be a good president and loosing the debate is not going to make some one a bad president if he has showed it during his presidency.The world is watching closely what is going on in US’ politicians mind.How can the US go and preach other nations things you are not able to except in your own home???

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      The debates should be conducted on the point system. Also, every thing said should be backed up with real figures. Obama asked Romney three times to define what loopholes he planned on filling – no answer. And when he tried to pin him down on where he would be cutting government spending, he attacked Big Bird. Maybe, Fern hit the nail on the head when she said it was Big Bird was teaching children to read. It is harder to con people who can read, understand, and think.

      • ALLLLAMERICAN

        Again, the libs turning everything into a big ordeal.

        The people give and support PBS—Romney said he is not going to pay out money
        For big bird if you don’t have the money and have to barrow from China!!!

        He said: “ I’m not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from China to pay for.”

        That is called business since!!! The Libs don’t get it because they have never tried to run a business.

        Federal spending for PBS would have little to no effect on Sesame Street’s budget.
        The majority of the show’s funding comes from corporate sponsorship, product sales and donations from the viewers.
        You don’t go shopping if you don’t have the money.
        You don’t buy a new house if you don’t have the money.
        Keep digging maybe Romney did something really bad in his mother’s womb.

        • grammyjill

          He did. He came out!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lord-Byng/628747040 Lord Byng

          Yeah, but he didn’t deny that he’s going to give two trillion extra dollars to the Pentagon that the Pentagon doesn’t want. 4% of GDP on the military. Look it up. Rated as “True” by the fact-checkers.

  • Sand_Cat

    “LIAR” is NOT the wrong word, and so long as the people watching these shows think it is, there is little hope for this country.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TJNSZD4HIXUCOAKXMQZCIUST34 JOEL K

    A debate requires two or more people to participate. The Obama vs Romney only had one individual in the debate; Romney. What was Obama doing in a withdrawn poster and almost no eye voice interaction during the total debate.
    Any time Romney said anything Obama disagreed with he could have challenged Romney.
    I voted for Obama in 2008. I am a registered Demopcrat from Florida.
    Obama appeared confused and lost.
    Concerning lying to the American citizens by politicians I recommend the following:
    Both candidates take an oath, like in court under pentality of prison time, to tell the truth or not omit the truth from all of there campaign. If a presidential candidate lies and is proven to lie in court he or she should go to prison.
    American presidential campaigning is a massive waste of money, billion plus dollars.
    Being elected to public office should not be a career, but a duty to ones country. We need to vote out everyone and start over with non-career representatives who after serving one term will go to work to earn a living rather than living off the tax paying citizens.
    America has major issues to solve and not kick the can down the road. America requires adults to actually make major decisions today.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Joel, I hope they can’t trace who you are as you admitted to being a registered Democrat. Your vote is in jeopardy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jerry.wallace.560 Jerry Wallace

    The OPERATIVE WORDS Here Are: “Mr. President, … Mitt Romney’s a BS artist. He’s running a carnival sideshow game with no pea under any of the shells. And in Denver, YOU helped him get away with it.” — Let’s Hope It’s Not Too Late For You To Firmly Correct a Situation That NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED!

  • cesa9276

    What is truly amazing about all of this is…, Martha Stewart was sent to Jail and did hard time for lying, supposedly. Should there be any justice served for lying to the American people and placing the country and virtually the free world at risk, for solely one’s personal benefit and gain???
    Someone please answer and clarify…, No not you, Paul Ryan!!!

  • jarheadgene

    WILLARD mitt ROMNEY…..YOU PHARISEE…YOU LIAR! You are of your father, the father of all lies, the devil. You would burden all others with heavy loads, loads you yourself would not touch with one finger. Sound familiar? it is paraphrased from a guy, that was quoted, in a book we all call
    “THE HOLY BIBLE”. All you “CHRISTIANs” in the GOP voting for this guy, you better check yourself. A vote for WILLARD would be like voting for Caiaphas. If you do not know who he was you better check yourself there too.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Jarhead, some of the so-called Christians I have met on these boards are not very Christlike.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Myers/100001512942781 Jim Myers

    In reply to cesa9276, Martha Stewart went to prison for insider trading. Of interest, one reporter made the statement that she shouldn’t have been jailed for that indiscretion because she “only made $60,000″ on the trade. $60,000 is more than most American workers make in a year.

    Although I have never been a big Martha Stewart fan, I admired her guts for accepting responsibility for her actions. She did not fight to stay out of jail. That takes courage.

    I do agree with you on the subject of serving time for deliberately lying to the American public in order to sway voters.

    Maybe if the Supreme Court would accept the challenge to make that a priority for any lawyer that has the grit to file such a case, this great country of ours would actually benefit.

    TOO BAD IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

    • jarheadgene

      Yes she has some guts and has paid her debt to society ….NOW what about all the WILLARD pals out there that got away with HIGH CRIMES on Wall St.?
      LET’s not forget some of those guys paid $50K for ONE(1) meal to hear the one and only time Willard told the truth…..HE DOESN’T CARE…….HE DOESN’T CARE…….HE DOESN’t CARE about anyone but himself.

  • elw

    Gene is basically right, Romney is what I call a “genetic liar,” they cannot help themselves. Trying to get the truth out of them is like walking into a Looney Bin. They know what they want and will get it if they have to steal, lie, change their mind, and promise stuff they have no intention of doing or giving. All lead a life full of disappointed parents, family and friends and never taking responsibility. The poor ones end up in jail, the rich ones like Romney often get away with a lot and sometimes end up in high places; But they all have one thing in common sooner or later they get caught and push people a bit too far and they teach people not to trust them. The President will not let him get away with a second time.

  • AliceR51

    My opinion. Mabey -Obama felt the nEED NOT to have to keep running off his mouth to R crap-
    even though he should -being a debate-who knows how Obama thinkin? There r soo much going on for a presi-

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q35PABW3NUKT54EUXJSWX6H2DA SONNY

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…………! Liberals are about to give birth to their own heads, with all the twisting, spinning, and caterwalling going on in this post. Maybe if y’all repeat your own lies enough, you’ll finally start to believe them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/crzydancer Richard Holmes

    obuttboy lost. He is clearly a first class loser. All liberals that follow him are of the highest caliber total idiot dolts.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/QXUFSMTKTK3UCL3ZFPJPONXAVM mac macey

    I know Mitt is all BS and more. But the reality is two things: he either didn’t fool anyone or fooled only those that will vote GOP anyway and he wasted his time.

  • G. Macher

    Of course, there is the reality that Obama is both a liar and not quite so clever has he boasts he is. I was not surprised he lost the debate but then again I only used facts to judge him not the delusional things said by libtards about him.

  • lana ward

    The debates can change a persons mind– that’s why there shouldn’t be early voting

  • lana ward

    Since Obama lost the debate on purpose, why when leaving did he think he won?

  • daniel bostdorf

    I can’t agree more with Gene Lyons the observation stated in te article:

    “”You can say anything you want during a debate and 80 million people hear it,” observed Peter Teeley, press secretary to Vice President Bush. If reporters then document that a candidate spoke untruthfully, ”so what?” –New York Times, November 1, 1984″

    When a candidate for President. Mitt Romney, and his running mate, lies, distorts the truth, pushes right wing propaganda on us…..it’s worse than “a clever liar.”

    Particularly when there are blatant lies. Romney likes to tell the lies and keep them simple and keeps repeating them hoping the masses will believe him. That’s called propaganda.

    We saw and listened to a fascist running for president.

    Example of a ROMNEY LIE on the failure of Obama’s economic policy:
ROMNEY: “And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is 1 out of 6 people in poverty. The proof of that is we’ve gone from 32 million on food stamps to 47 million on food stamps. The proof of that is that 50 percent of college graduates this year can’t find work.”

    
HERE ARE THE FACTS: The number of unemployed is 12.5 million, not 23 million. Romney was also counting 8 million people who are working part time but would like a full-time job and 2.6 million who have stopped looking for work, either because they are discouraged or because they are going back to school or for other reasons.
ROMNEY LIED in asserting that Obama came into office “facing 23 million people out of work.” At the start of Obama’s presidency, 12 million were out of work.

    ANOTHER LIE BY ROMNEY: He stated incorrectly that Obama’s health care plan “puts in place an unelected board that’s going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don’t like that idea.”

    
HERE ARE THE FACTS: ROMNEY LIED about the Independent Payment Advisory Board being able to ration care. This is a panel of experts that would have the power to force Medicare cuts if costs rise beyond certain levels and Congress fails to act.

    
EVEN MORE FACTS: Obama’s health care law explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. It simply does NOT HAVE power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.

    ROMNEY’S LIES are resurrecting the false demagogue assertion that Obama’s law would lead to rationing….Sounds like Pailn lie that has been widely debunked. The board has yet to be named. Its members would ultimately have to be confirmed by the Senate. Health care inflation has been modest in the last few years, so cuts would be unlikely for most of the rest of this decade.

    Romney lied about his own position on taxes, education and the outsourcing of jobs. Romney lies, lies and lies along with Ryan, and the right wing media, and Rove et al swear to it.

    “a clever liar” propaganda disguised as truth in a national presidential debate. Disgusting.

    Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels said it best: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” (likeFox FAUX News, Limbaugh, Beck and Rove believe)

    or as Adolph Hitler stated: “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

    Romney/Ryan: Keep giving us lies and “fuzzy math.” Because we will hold you accountable for your flip flops, and etch-a-sketch attitude towards the truth. …

    Gene is right:

    “…..it’s because Mitt Romney’s a BS artist. He’s running a carnival sideshow game with no pea under any of the shells.”

    That’s why Donald Trump supports him.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lord-Byng/628747040 Lord Byng

    Mr. Lyons, you come close to asking this as a question: “How do you debate a clever liar?” Do you have an answer? Granted it’s unfortunate, but it’s not surprising the Obama camp was not prepared for Romney to basically throw his entire program overboard and make that astonishing claim that he would not cut taxes on upper-income people- that he’d never said any such thing.

    But even if he had been prepared for it, what do you think any opponent- Obama or not- could have said at that point? I can’t even think of a comeback that would have worked.

    How can you call out that kind of lie?

    Unless the mediator does it, isn’t this a game that the liar will always win?

    I mean, seriously, what could you say?

    • docb

      Romney certainly presented with the pathology of a congenital liar last Wednesday! It is one thing to know that a candidate lies in the outer environs that romney has campaigned in for years but to believe he would blatantly lie to 60 million people without the slightest grimace is astounding!

      He is not a clever liar…clever liars present some miniscule grain of the truth..there was NONE of that from willard! Without the pathology he would be just a snake oil salesman..With it he is a very Dangerous Amateur with an amoral penchant!

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Lord, I have seen better debates. However, when a debator stands up there and says the opposite of what he has been saying, no one should have to point that out. People should be smart enought to compare the past with the present.

  • http://www.facebook.com/williamjackso29 William Jackson

    what is mitt romney thinking ???????????? oh a how to keep on lying , born lair , lies when he sleep
    lies when he eating lies when taking a crap lie when he is pee pee , just lieeeeeeeeeeeeee.

  • Cutlass12

    “…isn’t concerned with truth or falsity, only with selling himself.”

    “…all grandiose promises, no credible details.”

    “…a carnival sideshow game with no pea under any of the shells.”

    Wow. Imagine an Obama supporter making such charges against *someone else.*

  • phanya2012

    Pundits and Politicians create their own separate reality of extremes that is self-propagating. Most of the people I know (real people who live in the real world) do not hold extreme views: if given a problem to solve, most of them would work together to solve it. But the world of politics depends on extremes to give the 24/7 news cycle fodder, which they gleefully augment while commenting on it. And then they ask … I love this … why the American People are so shallow in the things they choose to focus on. Add to that the fact that most of the gigantic campaign expenses are media buys — it seems somewhat incestuous, doesn’t it.

  • mbm

    I admire Obama’s classy eloquence, but he has to call Romney on each and every lie next time. No holds barred, even if it does appear to be impolite or rude! While there may be a momentary gratuitous satisfaction in Obama taking off his shoe, pounding the podium and shouting “Pants on fire!”, there are probably more subtle ways of immediately nailing Mitt each time, with a simple, “No, Governor, that is not true. For 18 months you have told us… and now you proclaim…” And then go on to state the obvious. A clear and direct statement of Mitt’s lying and contradictions. Assertive, not aggressive. Direct, concise with a mastery of facts showing that he is completely familiar with each lie and non-specifics. That would be satisfying.

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