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Thursday, February 21, 2019

Within a day after Donald Trump’s triumphal visit to Indiana, where he claimed credit for “saving” 800 jobs at a Carrier factory, the Department of Labor released its first monthly unemployment report since his election victory — and one of the last that will come out during the presidency of Barack Obama. Together those two events illustrated the contrast between a real strategy for economic growth and the dubious gambit of a Twitter addict.

During his presidential campaign, Trump repeatedly warned that if he became president, companies moving U.S. manufacturing plants abroad would suffer punitive tariffs of 35 or even 45 percent when they tried to sell their overseas products here. More than once he specifically mentioned Carrier Corp., which builds cooling and heating units. After post-election conversations with company officials that included his running mate, Indiana governor Mike Pence, Trump declared that he had fulfilled his promise by “saving” those Carrier jobs.

Yet instead of punishing Carrier for taking most of its Indiana jobs to Mexico, Trump and Pence had actually rewarded the company with $7 million in state tax booty and guarantees of a big cut in its federal tax rate — plus any additional promises concerning the billions in Pentagon contracts held by Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies. Spending other people’s money, Trump did precisely the opposite of what he had promised — but appeared heroic for at least one news cycle.

The next day came the latest proof of the steady success of Obama and his economic team, with yet another monthly tick upward in job growth and another tick downward in the unemployment rate — now at 4.6 percent, its lowest point in almost a decade. Even with all the caveats about slow wage growth, reduced workforce participation, and continued manufacturing losses, the revival of the American economy under Obama is an enormous achievement and the envy of the world. Yet it is all too easy to imagine the voters who supported Trump dismissing what this president has accomplished.

Among the achievements that led to America’s low unemployment rates was the preservation of well over a million auto industry jobs, in the same battleground states where Trump carved his excruciatingly narrow win. When Obama decided to bail out auto, he faced enraged opposition from Republicans claiming to defend “free market” principles. They now praise Trump for wielding government power to cajole and bully a private company so he can claim to have saved well under a thousand jobs.

Even if political principles don’t matter, however, the arithmetic of this comparison doesn’t favor Trump (and never mind the craven Pence, an outspoken supporter of NAFTA and every other trade agreement when he was in Congress). Still Trump will insist that he delivered, and his gullible supporters will believe him — at least for a while.

Over the past year, Trump has uttered lots of other promises that will be much harder to fake than the Carrier deal. He vowed to create 25 million jobs, rebuild the nation’s infrastructure, and increase military spending — without increasing the deficit. He and his supporters insist that he can fulfill those outsized pledges because he is something entirely new, a GOP populist who cares about working Americans.

To accomplish even half of what he has pledged, Trump will have to overcome more than a century of American economic history.

During the years since 1900, unemployment has consistently increased under Republican presidents, while employment has increased under Democratic presidents — as NYU professor James Gilligan proved several years ago with data from the National Bureau of Economic Research and the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The partisan contrast is stark enough for a Trump voter to understand: Whenever a Republican president left the White House, unemployment was higher than when his term began, while the opposite was true whenever a Democratic president completed his term. In the most recent sequence, when George W. Bush took over from Bill Clinton, the unemployment rate was at 4.2 percent (defined by economists as close to full employment); when Bush left and Obama took over, the unemployment rate was 7.8 percent and rapidly rising; and now when Obama leaves he will bequeath Trump a jobless rate of 4.6 percent, perhaps even lower.

Despite his populist rhetoric, what Trump proposes to do to the economy is scarcely different from what all of his Republican predecessors have done. With the Republicans in Congress, he intends to deliver gigantic tax cuts to the wealthiest households in the country. Even his infrastructure plan is actually another enrichment scheme for the super-rich, designed to attract investors by granting them an 82 percent tax credit. But only projects that can deliver a return by charging tolls or fees will draw such investments, while trillions of dollars in desperately needed projects will languish without public funding.

While Trump’s proposed corporate tax cut may well bring home money for business investment, the overall history of tax cuts as a Republican economic panacea is worse than disappointing. So far every signal suggests that he will pursue the same plutocratic approach favored by all presidents of his party, only more extreme. The “success” of the Carrier deal will be long forgotten if and when he gets the same bitter results.

IMAGE: President-elect Donald Trump speaks at a rally in Cincinnati, Ohio, December 1, 2016 as part of  “USA Thank You Tour 2016”. REUTERS/William Philpott


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113 responses to “If Trump Imitates GOP Presidents, His Jobs Promise Will Fail”

  1. Dominick Vila says:

    Judging by the populist themes, and traditional labor union harangues he used throughout the campaign, I doubt he will emulate what former Republican Presidents did. He did not win the vote of millions of blue collar Democrats in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, by engaging in Reagan style union busting arguments. He did it by embracing traditional Democratic party themes, and beat us at our own game. The most dramatic change in paradigm this election year was a role and policy reversal on economic, fiscal, and labor policy proposals.
    Add to that our myopic focus on ethnic and cultural minorities, including showing a Muslim (Mr. Khan) asking a white American if he had read the Constitution of the USA, and our political strategy can only be described as political suicide. Hillary under estimated the angst of millions of blue collar workers, the anti-immigration sentiments that exist in the USA, the fear and hatred of Muslims, and the conviction that diversity is the cause of all our problems, rather than something we can be proud of.

    • yabbed says:

      That actually doesn’t make a lot of sense.

      • Dominick Vila says:

        Deservedly or not, Trump and his campaign team, managed to transform Hillary into a puppet of Wall Street, who did not care for the plight of millions of blue collar workers, and had no solution to the economic challenges that we continue to have. Namely the erosion of manufacturing jobs as a result of robotics, and the outsourcing of jobs by companies determined to increase profits and expand market share at the expense of American workers. Hillary did not lose the election because it was rigged, or because millions of African Americans, Latinos, and women, did not vote. She lost because she ignored the plight of blue collar workers, because she allowed many of the false claims made by Trump to go unchallenged, because she did not have a convincing argument to Trump demonization of Latinos and Muslims, and because instead of focusing on clear and simple solutions, she focused on character issues and complex solutions that the general public ignored. Moreover, Trump managed to convince manufacturing workers, miners, and other blue collar workers that he was with them, and that he would do whatever he could to bring jobs back to the USA. Regardless of whether his promises become reality, just the fact that he listened to them and proposed something to alleviate their angst, was enough to convince millions of Democrats in blue states to vote for Trump.

        • dbtheonly says:

          Given the Sanders campaign, Trump did not have to search for attacks on $hillary, the Corporate Whores, or any other like meme.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            All I get on FB from Sanderistas is the same nasty, mean spirited Hillary bashing I get from right wingers. What is wrong with these people?

          • dbtheonly says:

            On one hand there are overlaps between TPL and TPR. The anti-corporate attitude and the anti-globalist trade policies rank up there. Sarah Palin’s “crony capitalism” could just as easily come from Bernie. The whole anti-establishment attitude is similar as well. I can almost hear the TPL chanting, “Build the Wall”.

            The vehemence comes from those who feel the world is a conspiracy to hold them down.

            It boils down though to those who don’t have a stake in the current society. Both TPL and TPR are generally made up of people who don’t see their benefits from the current situation. Someone who sees the positives today doesn’t want to MAGA. I hope that the TPL will moderate over time, I did.

        • yabbed says:

          You are intellectualizing far too much credit to Trump. Let’s not get into the Blame Hillary campaign because she didn’t match Trump stupid for stupid. I find such thinking throughly defeating. Decent Americans should not be asked to join the DeplorableBasket in order to win elections.

          • Independent1 says:

            The White House has some blame for all this, in that, at no time did the WH come out and make it clear that Comey’s attacks on Hillary were unwarranted, and that despite what Comey said, Hillary broke no laws and was guilty of nothing. Unfortunately, millions of Americans still falsely believe that Hillary broke the law with respect to her handling of her emails.

        • sigrid28 says:

          At this reserve from the campaign, I wish I could imagine whatever “clear and simple solutions” you think Hillary could have used to counter effectively Trump’s emotional appeal, which is what carried him to the White House.
          Growing up in the farmland outside of Chicago, one of my seven uncles (people still had big families where I came from) was a successful farmer all of his life. He never could wrap his head around the idea of being paid NOT to do his best, paid NOT to raise certain crops, paid essentially to remain in a holding his pattern rather than doing his best to feed the world. When they grew up, his four children found blue-collar jobs: hairdresser, florist, fireman, produce manager in a grocery. My cousins successfully made the transition to other jobs that did not requiring a college education, when their father’s occupation became unprofitable due to economic forces and the vagaries of the marketplace, not to mention the spread of factory farming throughout agriculture thanks to crony capitalism.
          My uncle loved farming and his children love their jobs. It is from this perspective that I view the “angst” that Trump’s appeal was meant to alleviate. My suspicion is that this “angst” is something my cousins do not feel, because they transitioned effectively from one field to another. It is the rural Americans who have not made this transition that seem to be Trump’s “base.” Living among them in Iowa, I see the virulence of their emotions, which is what Trump tapped to win the state. But I do not see among them the impetus to imagine another type of job to replace a lost job, say, going to florist college for nine months followed by a period of apprenticeship.
          Furthermore, I do not think Trump has the goal of assisting them with this transition, which (ir my family is representative) can be deeply satisfying. I’m afraid that’s what Trump’s victory tour is all about: stoking rage to keep h

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Let me be perfectly clear, I voted for Hillary because I believed, and still believe, she was the most qualified, experienced, and capable candidate running. She would have been an outstanding President.
            My observations are focused on three issues: (1) her inability or unwillingness to respond, clearly and convincingly, to the personal attacks directed at her, (2) the strategy used by her and the DNC throughout the campaign, and (3) the use of a narrative that is no longer resonating with a large segment of the electorate.
            1. Take Benghazi, for example. It took nerve, and abilities bordering on genius, for the nominee and members of the party that was in power on 9/11, and when ELEVEN U.S. diplomatic facilities were attacked, with over 3,100 people killed, to attack Hillary because our consulate in Benghazi was attacked, and four Americans were killed. Why didn’t they elaborate on the fact that the leader of that attack, al Libby, was captured, is in prison, and confessed that, indeed, the protests that followed the GOP financed and released video that offended the sensitivities of millions of Muslims served as a cover for the terrorists to attack? Why did they allow ridiculous claims such as Hillary was asleep at 3 am when she received the call informing her that the consulate was under attack? Why didn’t they say that Secretaries of State don’t have the authority to tell the Pentagon to stand down? Why didn’t we put emphasis on telling the people that two of the four Americans killed were rescuers dispatched from our Embassy in Tripoli, when the opposition was saying that we did nothing to help the besieged diplomats? The entire line of attack was a sham, and Trump, and all Republicans running benefited from it thanks, at least in party, to our ineptitude or unwillingness to look defensive.
            The same goes for the e-mail “scandal”. Why didn’t we show Republican Senators and Congressmen texting? Why didn’t we place more emphasis on the fact that most elected officials and civil servants use private accounts for official use on a daily basis? Admittedly, she would have been better off admitting, without ambiguity and openly that, indeed, she had used poor judgment when she decided to use a personal server in her basement to handle official electronic mail. The same goes for all the hoopla about classified mail that endangered our national security. First, the State Department does not deal with truly classified material like the one the DoD, NSA, CIA, and even the FBI do. Secondly, the three e-mails with (c) embedded in the text did not contain the usual classified markings that identify e-mails and other classified material as such, lastly the three e-mails only dealt with information relative to meetings that she had already had. Again, she would have been better off if she had been more forthcoming and, obviously, if she had used better judgment to start with, considering the level of scrutiny she had been under for 30 years.
            (2) The strategy used by Hillary and her campaign focused almost entirely on character issues, and a plan that was simply too elaborate and complex for voters more inclined to react to a clever slogan or a cute retort than substance. A cursory look at Trump’s campaign would reveal that what he talked about in most of his rallies were cheap shots, examples of narcissism bordering on arrogance, and incomprehensible rhetoric that made W sound like a combination of FDR and Churchill. Our focus on ethnic and cultural minorities, and our continuous praise of diversity, convinced much of the white majority that they were under attack, and energized them like nothing else would. Showcasing a Muslim (Mr. Khan) asking a white American if he had read the Constitution was interpreted as the ultimate insult by many white Americans. That part of the campaign was, in my opinion, insensitive and short sighted.
            (3) Our shift to the center, interpreted by many fellow Democrats as a shift to the center right or worse, resulted in a perception that we had abandoned traditional Democratic values. Millions of Democrats, Bernie’s supporters and blue collar workers, concluded that Hillary, and Democrats in general, were no longer on their side, and were more interested in defending and promoting the interests of Wall Street than fighting for them. It did not help that Hillary did not listen to the angst being voiced by millions of blue collar workers, and did not address it until it was too late.
            It really does not matter whether their angst is justified or not. Clearly, many of the assembly line jobs that have been lost went away because of robotics and new technologies. Voting for a King of outsourcing and foreign investment did not make sense at all. Lastly, there is, indeed, a sense of entitlement – and a heavy dose of laziness – being shown by those who are unwilling to do something to overcome the challenges they face. The same goes for the coal miners. Instead of accepting that the world is changing, and that we must adapt to the new realities, they continue to demand a return to the way things were half a century ago. It is not going to happen. We simply cannot afford to go backwards when the rest of the world is moving forward.
            Unfortunately, in the world of politics, those running for office cannot tell their constituents the reality of their circumstances. Instead, they must cater to them, listen to them, and offer simplistic solutions to complex problems, even when they know that those “solutions” do not make any sense and cannot be pursued. Trump understood that fact better than Hillary, he seized the opportunity, took advantage of it, and managed to convinced millions of blue collar workers, and gullible idealists, that he is the man that can bring home the bacon. Interestingly, the fact that the GOP managed to keep control of Congress, may help him achieve a semblance of success by using the same economic stimulus proposals advanced by President Obama, and denied by the GOP because of fiscal concerns, and spending limits constraints that, not surprisingly, were lifted one week after the election, when it was no longer necessary to obstruct the vision of an opponent to ensure he was a one-term President.

          • sigrid28 says:

            What a thoughtful reply to my post. Thank you. In addition, you have given President Obama and his administration full-throated support without pulling any punches in landing a few blows, deservedly, on the way Democrats conducted the campaign for his successor. Thanks to your post, I now share a good portion of your outrage with greater specificity.

            I was particularly struck by how what you say matches the quotation from a leaked Podesta memo that seemed to pull Hillary down, the one about the need to speak in different ways to different constituents. The sentence at the top of your last paragraph above explains why most sensible voters saw nothing wrong with that, while the voters who “want to believe” fell hook, line, and sinker for Trump.

            I for one have never questioned your loyalty as a voter and a voice for Democrats, and I hope you didn’t take that from my post. I just cannot imagine any logical appeal that would have moved Trump voters in Iowa to stop and think. For many Trump voters in Iowa it was a knee-jerk reaction, like tossing a Molotov cocktail (filmmaker Michael Moore’s image) at Washington, D.C., and the status quo. If I could have imagined any way to get through to them, I would have been on the telephone night and day arguing the case for HRC, but not only would they have refused to listen, they could not hear.

            This raises the next logical question of whether HRC herself or her campaign could have convinced them, by addressing all of the relevant questions you raise in point one above. I listened to the Benghazi hearing in which HRC defended her actions and the state department for eleven hours, a response that Republicans in Congress buried in further hearings (never answering her responses with equal honesty or clarity) and that Trump’s voters ignored altogether. They would not even have listened to Trump if he had tried to do more than toss slogans
            at them along with his MAGA caps.

            That is, essentially, the core of your second point, along with establishing very well that putting forth the Khan family at the Democratic convention probably backfired. My only addition to the cogent argument you make about the Khans, is my sense that working class Americans found what the Khans epresented, even their son’s singular contribution as a veteran who lost his life through an act of selfless bravery, too difficult
            to comprehend, and therefore these Trump voters refused to credit it. By the time of the Democratic convention, these bread-and-circus voters were addicted to Trump’s steady diet of sound-bites that spoke to their personal grievances.

            I agree wholeheartedly when you address HRC’s centrist positions in point three (above); centrist positions probably displeased some Democrats. My personal Millennial backed Sanders, like many of his college classmates and friends from school. After HRC won the primary, it was a chore to convince him that a vote for a third-party candidate was a vote for Trump. In some ways, the idealism of Millennial voters was as difficult to penetrate as the “angst” of working class voters who
            took Trump as their savior (more like a wolf in sheep’s clothing, if you ask me). It grieves me to say it, but I think in these two groups—idealistic Sanders voters and enraged Trump supporters—we have many Americans who will be horrified as they watch the outcome of their choices play out over the next four years. They will need analyses like the one you offer (above) to help them make better choices the next time.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            I thought the analogy you provided in your earlier post was most appropriate, and timely.
            Some of the reasons for the anger or frustrations that so many fellow Americans feel include unrealistic expectations, refusal to retrain to qualify for other professions, and a feeling of entitlement at a time when conditions have changed so dramatically that the only option for those displaced by technology, outsourcing, or concern over damage to the environment, is to retrain to qualify for the many jobs that do exist, and often go to foreigners entering the USA with H1b visas.

          • sigrid28 says:

            I agree with you about the reasons behind the anger, especially the “feeling of entitlement.” I honestly don’t know where the white working class people I grew up with get that, unless it is connected with the Predestination clause of the Protestant Work Ethic. If you think that the good Lord has the whole game set up in advance, you might still be willing to work hard (if you like being a farmer, for instance), but you might feel you failed undeservedly if farming, on your farm, goes bust. This would be the example of the Dust Bowl.
            I was so impressed by Ken Burns’s documentary about the Dust Bowl. It took a decade for Americans to overcome their rage and get past the grievances about losing everything. Until they could give up abused feelings of entitlement, they could not see that too intensive farming practices had brought environmental disaster down upon themselves.
            The connection between anti-intellectualism in the forties and the Puritan roots of American culture has been a pillar of American history ever since Richard Hofstadter published “Anti-Intellectualism and American Life” (title?). Now we are undergoing another period of anti-intellectualism in the twenty-first century, with a President Trump, who discounts science and even conventional definitions of the truth, whose sense of entitlement based on wealth is the mirror inverse of the “feeling of entitlement” of the poor white people who voted him into office. Ironically, it was the Russians who pulled us out of anti-intellectualism in the 1950s with Sputnik

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Dominick, For me, it is always about COUNTRY first. How on earth are we supposed to call ourselves a country when more than half of Trump’s cabinet are billionaires? Worse, the man cannot tell the truth if GOD demanded it.

            Right now, he is acting as if he IS president before the current president’s term is even ended. This is Trump all the way. Take over.

            Now the cocky right wingers want us to accept that he is “a different” president. He’s already got China and Taiwan at each other’s throats for something Trump now says they “shouldn’t have taken literally.” This is presidential material? When you have to guess when he is genuine and when to NOT take him “Literally?”

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Don’t forget that these are the same people who after denying the importance of policies that helped raise the DOW Index from 7,000 in January 2009 to an average of 18,500 the last few years, often dismissing that gain as irrelevant, are now jumping up and down because the market went up 500 points since Trump won.
            Get ready for bragging time when the unemployment rate drops from 4.6% to 4.5%. All of a sudden, all the calls to use a different method to calculate unemployment during President Obama’s tenure, will be replaced with praise towards Trump, regardless of whether or not he even found the way to the Oval Office, let alone change the formula used to determine unemployment in the USA.

          • dpaano says:

            Let’s face the truth….the ONLY reason why Trump is the president is because he requires constant adulation and constant verification of how wonderful he is! He has NO idea how to be a president, nor do any of his nominations! As long as they keep kissing his butt and assuring him how wonderful he is…..he’s going to continue his path of taking this nation down!

          • plc97477 says:

            I would like to find out who you thought was going to tell the country about the truth as far as emails, benghazi, speeches etal. I don’t know if anyone told you yet that we do not have an honest media like we did back in the day. Without an honest media there is no one to get the information out to the country.
            Hillary was not being covered by any journalists so it didn’t matter what she did or said.

          • dpaano says:

            The only things that journalists cared about when it came to Hillary were the blatant conspiracy theories that the GOP kept throwing out there. They were VERY aware that these were not true, but they failed to back up the facts! This was the biggest problem, and it’s STILL the biggest problem!

          • plc97477 says:

            A strong fourth estate is needed for democracy to work so I hope they can get it together for the next election. I am not going to bet the farm and I would suggest you don’t either.

          • dpaano says:

            I agree….as long as our media is owned by the likes of Murdoch and his uber-right wing cronies, there isn’t a chance in the world of hearing valid and truthful news! Like you, I’m not going to bet the farm either, but I’m still going to keep hope alive!

          • dpaano says:

            Dom: Don’t you think that journalists covering the campaign had a hand in the loss also? They failed to publicize the lies that Trump and his campaign told and, instead, only publicized his idiocies! They SHOULD have taken the reins and did what you’re saying that Hillary should have done. She was taking the “high road,” as she always said, when she should have taken the “low road” on some of the campaign rhetoric that was coming out of Trump’s mouth! Even now, journalists are scared of printing the truth about the lies that Trump is telling this nation…..why, I have no idea! Someone needs to give them all a kick in the butt and tell them to do their jobs! But, of course, we have to realize who owns most of the media in this nation nowadays! Where’s Cronkite and Roussert when you need them? Where are the journalists of the past who were NEVER afraid to tell the truth when the truth needed to be told?

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Trump was such a financial bonanza for the media that they ignored his constant lies, his record, and intellectual limitations to profit from his incendiary rhetoric and childish behavior.

          • dpaano says:

            Unfortunately….they’re still at it….the journalists, that is. They post everything Trump no matter how stupid it is!

        • easton says:

          funny post. Trump got 46.1% of the popular vote, a full 1.1% less than Romney and managed to draw an inside straight to win the election because many working class whites are, and there is no other word for it, morons. Talk to them, they are not just low information, they are wrong information. There was no way to penetrate their ignorance bubble and thank God these morons will pay the price in the misery that will come their way, he won’t bring back coal jobs or manufacturing jobs, those communities will continue to deteriorate and unlike with Obama there will be go government that will rescue them with healthcare, better educational opportunities, or realistic infrastructure spending (as opposed to Trump’s grifting and grafting one)
          and you are wrong, he didn’t convince “millions” of those voters to vote for him. He won by a total of around 100,000 votes, the reality is Johnson and Stein got a much higher vote total. At most he and Sanders convinced them to throw their votes away.
          Had polls been accurate she would have campaigned in Pa. Wisconsin, and Michigan and not wasted time in Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, and Ohio. Bad polls, Comey, and rank stupidity gave us Trump.
          And don’t ask me to sympathize with the voters who gave us Trump. They screwed America, every ounce of pain they get they deserve. My children have gotten called racial epithets (words I won’t repeat) more in the past year then they have in their entire life. It has gotten to the point my two older ones have no more white friends, all are minority or mixed race. This is what Trump has given us and you want me to sympathize with those parents of those little shites?

          • Dominick Vila says:

            The last thing I would do is ask you, or anyone else, to sympathize with those who voted for Trump. In addition to making a huge mistake, they elected a man that is likely to take us back 50 years, both socially, fiscally, and culturally.
            Reflecting on what happened, determining the causes for our defeat, and proposing strategic changes to prevent more political catastrophes in the future, is not an endorsement of what just happened. It is called political survival. We either do something to end the trend we have seen the last three elections, when we lost seats at all levels of government at a massive scale, or we risk becoming a minority party forever.

          • easton says:

            what you don’t recognize is that Trump is the solution to Democrat’s problems, just as GWB was. Look at 2006 and 2008 when Democrats got all the way up to a fairly unprecedented (at least in a generation) 60 Senate seats and a larger House majority than Republicans have now.
            And you are wrong, we lost seats in 2010 (an off year election) but won 2 Senate seats, the WH, and House seats in 2012, and we then lost fairly big in 2014 (another off year election) but won the popular vote by 2% and picked up 2 Senate seats and a half dozen house seats.
            The party in power almost always loses downballot, the only exceptions being 2002 and 1998, and those two times because of atypical situations (9/11 and the Clinton impeachment fiasco).
            Yes, I know Republicans have gerrymandered the House and have an advantage in the Senate but that didn’t stop the massive landslide victories in 2006 and 2008 for Democrats. 2020 has the benefit of being a census year and a Presidential year. Trump is a disaster, even with promising everything he only won 46.1%, give him 4 years of absolute idiocy and that number will go way down. And there won’t be Hillary to kick around next time. No bs email scandal. Trump and Republicans will be on the defensive. As I said, it will be a glorious trainwreck. The moron is not even in the WH and he has already provoked a major diplomatic incident with China.

          • Dominick Vila says:

            I agree with you regarding the fact that the best hope for the future of the Democratic party is a catastrophe as a result of Trump policies and actions, but I disagree with most of the rest of your post. We lost the House, the Senate, most Governorships, most State legislatures, most local governments, and now the White House.
            The best thing we can do at this point is recognize the obvious and get to work.

          • easton says:

            again, in 2008 Republicans had lost in a larger fashion, we had 60 Senate seats (after Specter switched parties and before Himbo was elected) and 257 seats in the House. Republicans will probably only have 52 (after Louisiana votes) and 241 seats in the House. This will be their highwater mark. They are a 46% party declining around 1% every 4 years as old white racist pos’s die off.
            And stop counting Wyoming as equal to California. That state has around 12% of the population, equal to 15 red states and their unified governments. And Vermont’s Republican governor is more liberal than most Democrats, so lets also realize that is a silly metric. And as to local governments, not by population.

          • dpaano says:

            And we stand to lose the Supreme Court with Trump’s uber conservative choices unless the Democrats in Congress stop him in some way!

          • Dominick Vila says:

            Unfortunately, I don’t think there is a way to stop what is about to happen.

          • dpaano says:

            Unfortunately, that’s the sad part of this whole fiasco!! We may get rid of Trump in the future, but we’ll be stuck with his nominees! Although, I think the Democrats will give his nominees a run for their money…and I’ve heard that even a few Republicans might also question some of the more unqualified nominations that he’s made and will be making. We can only hope that saner minds will prevail somehow. I refuse to give up any hope….but, then again, I’m an optimist!

          • Dominick Vila says:

            During a press conference today, denouncing Russian interference in our election process, Mitch McConnell seemed enthusiastic and supportive of the nominations that Trump has made thus far.

          • dpaano says:

            I saw that….it appears that some of the GOP congressmen/women are starting to see the light and are realizing that they are going to have to tie him down. I’m happy to see that they are also against some of the nominations that Trump has made, especially Puzner, Bannon, and the EXXON guy! It’s pretty bad that Trump is only choosing people to run important departments based on how much money they donated to his campaign. It’s “pay to play” on steroids, much the same as he kept accusing Hillary of doing!
            His big problem is that he still thinks he can run this country like his business, ignoring guidelines that have been in place for decades, complaining about costs of the military jets, etc., that we depend on without even FIRST meeting with Lockheed to discuss the costs, the specifications, etc. of the jets. He’s already angered China over the “One China” policy that has been in place since the 1970’s….what other atrocities is he going to do before he’s even inaugurated? We could be in serious trouble before he even steps into the Oval Office!!!
            I’m still somewhat optimistic that he will NEVER make it into the White House and that the Electoral College will vote sensibly. Not sure what the outcome would be if he were not approved by them…not sure if we’d get stuck with Pence or if they could write in another Republican candidate. All I know is that all his nominees are totally unqualified for the positions he’s nominated them for. In today’s world, we need people to run these departments that actually KNOW what they’re doing and not because of how much money they donated! There HAS to be something our government can do to stop this… can certainly bet that if Hillary had won and tried the same antics, the GOP would annihilate her!! They have to STOP him because this seems to be illegal to some degree!

          • dpaano says:

            Agreed, and we need to start NOW to find Democratic candidates who can overthrow Trump and his cronies in 2018 and 2020! We can’t stand by and watch this nation go down! Hopefully, the DNC will elect a leader who can unite the Democratic party and find men or women who are willing and able to take on the momentous job of bringing this country BACK to sanity!!

          • dpaano says:

            Easton, I’m sorry to hear about your children having to deal with this type of situation. I even read in the paper this morning that New York City has seen more hate crimes since the election than they have seen in the past! What does that tell you about the people in this country and how they’ve been conned into believing by Trump. How long before we see innocent people killed or threatened because of their religion, their political choices, their race, etc.? Even myself, as a Caucasian female, feel terrible about this and am at a major loss as to what I, as an individual, can do other than just watch those around me and do what I can to stop any harassment that I see. I’m ashamed of the people in this country; ashamed at their actions towards other American citizens! It’s pretty sad to see the direction that the government is taking this nation! The most we can hope for is that others, like myself, will do the same and do something when we see this type of harassment of innocent people!!

        • dpaano says:

          Yeah, Trump listens… he listened to Al Gore and Leo DeCaprio when they met with him recently to talk about climate control. Both of them felt some positivity out of those meetings; however, we saw how quickly that went by the wayside by his choice of the new environmental czar! Trump talks a big game and makes people THINK that he’s listening and agreeing with you, but, in the end, he has NO plan to do anything other than make the rich even richer and the poor and middle-class to pay for it! This is just a typical con man and how a con man plays the game! He leads people into thinking that he somewhat agrees with some of your ideas, but, in reality, he doesn’t care what you have to say!

    • dpaano says:

      Maybe, but I still think that Trump conned his followers by making outrageous promises that he has no intention of keeping and no ability to accomplish!

  2. yabbed says:

    Trump brands and that of his daughter are products of China, Bangladesh, and Mexico. He won’t even bring their own Trump brands back to the USA for manufacture.

    • dbtheonly says:


      Or perhaps IOKIYT (it’s okay if you’re a Trump)

      • Karenrperez says:

        Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !mj306d:
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    • dpaano says:

      I’ve said that all along, yabbed…..when are we going to hear that Trump and Ivanka are bringing back their clothing line, jewelry manufacturing, and shoe manufacturing to the U.S. Are they going to charge themselves the 35-45% tax when they bring these items in from China and Vietnam? That should be interesting to see. Unfortunately, we never heard much about this during his campaign….he easily glided over the fact that he, himself, had businesses overseas that he was benefiting from!!

  3. sigrid28 says:

    Will President Trump insist that billionaire CEOs like himself voluntarily convert multimillion-dollar year-end bonuses into decent paying jobs? Under this policy–call it crony populism–one CEO’s $100million year-end bonus (that’s on top of his or her salary) could support 2,000 jobs paying $50,000/year in the CEOs company. That would come out to 8,000 individuals (counting 4 people in each family supported by one of those 2,000 jobs) living for a year on one year-end bonus that is not even needed to support the four (or more) family members in the CEO’s family, because each CEO who earns a bonus also receives a multimillion-dollar annual salary and other benefits, such as health insurance, life insurance, stock in the company, etc.
    Crony populism of this kind would also channel more money into government coffers, because those 2,000 families living on $50,000/year would pay local, state, and federal income taxes, unlike Trump and his cronies who pay attorneys in order to avoid paying taxes on their salaries and multimillion-dollar bonuses..

    • dpaano says:

      Lowering the tax rates for large corporations in the past did NOTHING to gain jobs…..all the money saved by these corporations merely went to pay bigger bonuses to their CEO’s and dividends to their shareholders! The employees of the corporation got NOTHING, and many companies even failed to give raises to the actual people who do all the work that they benefit from! Trump’s plan isn’t going to work… didn’t work for Kansas or Louisiana….and it isn’t going to work for the rest of this nation!

      • sigrid28 says:

        Of course those bonuses are the result of the lowered tax rates, which is even more reason why they should have resulted in more and better paying jobs in the businesses that got those breaks. Ironically, it is the employees who got nothing who voted Trump into office and who can expect more of the same, especially given the crony capitalists Trump has nominated for posts in his cabinet. Will these deluded Trump voters ever see the light?

        • dpaano says:

          I agree….and, I don’t think the Trump voters will EVER see the light. They’ve been so blinded and brainwashed by the Trump campaign that it’s pitiful!! I agree about the lowered tax rates on the upper 1%….all it did when Bush tried it was to give the CEO’s bigger bonuses and the shareholders a bigger dividend….it did NOTHING to force the companies to hire more employees. And, the problem is that if the employees don’t get raises, they can’t even afford to purchase the products that they produce…, what’s the point!

          • sigrid28 says:

            Funny how Trump is now being shown up by union leaders correcting his math: Trump “saved” 730 workers jobs and 70 management, not jobs for 1100 workers. Worse yet, CNBC interviewed a parent-company CEO about the Carrier deal, and he casually admitted that the $7million would go toward automating the Carrier plant and cutting even more jobs.
            Speaking of automation replacing salaried workers, Trump shows his complicity with this practice in his choice of Pudzer as nominee for Secretary of Labor. The two have other things in common. Pudzer is a man after Trump’s own misogynistic heart: He never saw a fast-food hamburger that didn’t make him think fondly of a working girl, like the ones featured in his commercials. Pudzer’s tasteless ads pack as much innuendo as possible into a word like “Hardees.” (I didn’t make this up.)

          • dpaano says:

            AND, let’s not forget that he’s buddies with Putin…..another Russian “connection” that we have to worry about!

          • dpaano says:

            Agreed…..isn’t it interesting that most of his nominees are people who do NOT go along with all the so-called “promises” that he made to his voters? Does Trump understand how many jobs will be lost if he trashes NAFTA or if he decides to “charge” 35-45% taxes on imports from overseas companies? Walmart, alone, will end up going completely out of business! He has NO concept of how things work, nor does he seem to want to learn about them! For someone who complained loudly that President Obama was spending more time campaigning than attending security briefings…..he’s doing the very same thing, only worse! He keeps saying he’s so smart and doesn’t need to be briefed….and that scares the bejeezus out of me! Things change on a daily basis, and it’s imperative that he attends security briefings! It shows just how UNsmart that he actually is! This man is TOTALLY unqualified to run this country, and he doesn’t seem to realize it!

          • sigrid28 says:

            If Trump were smarter, he would realize that he is unqualified. He will go from being a popular celebrity billionaire to being a loser as president. And it will be his own fault.

            On reflection, I think the delay in connecting Russian interference with the election directly to Trump’s win has served a very good purpose. Obama has Trump, the man who tried to delegitimize his presidency, just where he wants him. If Trump denies the need to investigate fully Russia’s involvement in the 2016 election, he seems to be, as HRC put it so nicely in a debate, “Putin’s puppet.” Trump’s pro-Putin nominees for his administration now make Trump look even more like Putin’s puppet. Obama’s report clarifying this connection will come out just before Trump’s inauguration, which should put a damper on that whole affair.

            In light of Trump’s obvious ties to Russia, I think Trump cannot stay in office: He looks too much like a Manchurian candidate. In addition, once he is office, it will be time for the law suits to roll out challenging his conflicts of interest and his violations of the emoluments clause (unless he and his family divest themselves entirely of his businesses). Ongoing probes revealing Trump’s ties to Russia and his conflicts of interest will be very messy and worrisome and time-consuming for Washington and the country as a whole. However, the media frenzy over these discoveries may keep Trump from doing very much damage before he is impeached. Hopefully, the GOP will be tarred with the same brush in this harrowing process, opening a way for course correction via the 2018 and 2020 elections.

          • dpaano says:

            The so-called “lawsuits” that you talk about will be few or none. The Courts will not accept them if the individual(s) or group(s) who are suing are not actually being affected by his damages. This is what has happened in the past when the courts have thrown out lawsuits. You have to be basically harmed in some way in order to be able to file a lawsuit against Trump or his cronies. You just can’t willy nilly file a lawsuit just because you aren’t happy with what’s going on. As for his looking like a “Manchurian Candidate,” I don’t think his followers even understand what that means and don’t seem to give a damned! They just think that President Obama and HIllary are asking for the investigation into the Russian’s hacking into the election procedure because Hillary lost. They don’t seem to care that it isn’t President Obama OR Hillary that are asking for the investigations! And, don’t you think that once Trump is inaugurated, he’ll put a quick stop to the investigations if they aren’t completed BEFORE January 20th? After all, he has nominated his choice to run the DOJ, etc. They will have the ability to put a stop to any investigation.

          • sigrid28 says:

            Your cogent argument for the futility of lawsuits against a President Trump shows a refreshing and welcome (because not so cynical) under-estimation of the litigious capabilities of the legal establishment and its avidity, wherever it takes hold. Dickens understood it perfectly, calling its nineteenth-century equivalent in London “the office of how-not-to-do-it.” Each society around the globe, and in places where Trump has put down roots, has its own office of this sort with rules even more arcane and inscrutable than our own DOJ and state and local courts. In addition to legions of lawyers worldwide hoping to make money by suing Trump (they make money even if they do not actually win, you see), there are legions of wealthy persons and businesses around the world whose interests may be at stake now that a U.S. president is behind the name Trump. These are all people and entities “with standing” who cannot be stopped by our DOJ and whose every lawsuit drags Trump and his family into violations of the emoluments clause the minute they try to mount a defense. Here’s a happy thought: Trump could go broke trying to settle all of these suits out of court, along with the others he’s already embroiled in–perhaps as many as 8,500.

            As for Trump getting Sessions confirmed by the Senate as his AG, good luck with that. Behind the scenes, Democrats in Washington (and throughout the nation) are preparing for more chaos than dim-witted Republicans could ever imagine. All the while in the media, Democrats are pretending to be SO perturbed and SO occupied with the “huge” news story about how the Democratic party is SO divided and SO incapacitated by losing the election.

            I will particularly relish following the public hearings in which his billionaire crony-nominees must prove that they will have no conflicts of interest if they are confirmed. Every little fact revealed about their lives and business dealings will be a week’s worth of stories in the press, exposing their secrets to the riffraff these billionaires thought they had put behind them millions of dollars ago. Like Trump, they want the trophies that go along with these titles but they despise public service and have no desire to better the lives of anyone who does not belong to their elite club. We’ll see whether Trump can succeed in turning the White House into a country club–and if he does, how long the public will put up with it.

  4. I Am Helpy says:

    Words 1-5 of this headline aren’t necessary.

  5. skisok says:

    We will have a Depression in 3-4 years under Trump that will make 2008 look like economic progress.

    • Independent1 says:

      If Trump and the GOP go through with their day-one promises of trashing Social Security and Medicare (converting them to vouchers which makes them non guarantees) and Trump tries to deport the illegals, it won’t take 3-4 years to create a recession, a recession will begin within six months. Deporting even a sizeable chunk of illegals will cost 5-8 million American’s their jobs almost immediately. When Alabama enacted the toughest immigration laws in the nation in 2011, it only took 2 weeks for the Alabama economy to start to tank.

  6. TMZ1928 says:

    Relax my liberal friends. You will get to enjoy the economic growth along with everyone else.

    • Eleanore Whitaker says:

      Really? Will that be because you hicks are going to help NJ pay for Trump’s 6 count ’em SIX corporate bankruptcies he dumped on taxpayers? Or maybe you are so well off with all of the tax dollars you CONfederate trough feeders are eating that you plan to rehire all 4400 of NJ hotel and casino workers Trump unemployed so he would use their paychecks to pay that FinCEN fine?

      I am thinking that all that BS about how Trump SAVED Carrier employees jobs is another of the massive scams you and your hicks fell for.

      So 4400 in NJ lost jobs to help Trump pay his FinCEN fine and then he struts and says he best Obama on saving jobs? Do you nuts ever learn we will NOT fall for your BS? He saved 800 jobs. Not 1,000. And he did it according to Carrier officials, which by the way, Carrier is one of Trump’s investments, threats and bribery of $7 million in tax subsidies. Shove Trump up your trailer trash butt.

      All you hicks are doing is forcing the Dem states to go insular and step back and let you take the brunt of your massive naivete where Trump’s lies and deceptions are concerned.

    • Independent1 says:

      Here’s some stats that support Joe’s article 100%; 110 years of history shows that if Trump takes the Oval Office – America is in for a very rough ride:

      Testaments to the Very Unsuccessful History of GOP Governance Which All Americans Should be Aware Of

      The GOP has succeeded in achieving the following distinctions of failed governance over the past 110 years by governing:

      · all 10 states today that Gallup-Healthways deems are the most miserable states to live in with the worst quality of life*;

      · all 25 states today that WalletHub deems have the largest percentages of people broke and on the verge of bankruptcy;

      · all 25 states today that WalletHub deems have the lowest personal consumptionspending per capita;

      · 24 of 27 states that lists as having an auto fatality rate above the national average of 10.3/100,000 pop.;

      · all 15 of the states that CBS News found for 2014 were the hardest states to find a job in;

      · all 15 of the states where people are projected by the CDC to not live past age 77 (and to die as young as age 74); and are the states where people live an average of 2-6 year shorter lives than people who live in Democrat-run states. And yes, some of that is due to demographics, but a great deal is due also to GOP-governed states generally having poor police and fire protection which results in added violence and homicides; and poor healthcare delivery systems which result in more people dying prematurely and even at birth or giving birth; and more people living in poverty and unemployment and therefore not getting the food, medications and care that they need to just stay alive;

      · all 10 of the states that the FBI’s statistics show have the highest rates of
      violence by gun; and 18 of the 20 states that the FBI has identified as having
      the highest firearms-related mortality rates;

      · 22 of the 26 states with the highest percentage of residents identifying
      themselves as being divorced;

      · at least 8 of the 10 states consistently being identified as being the most
      overall-violent states in America to live; including the state which has had
      the most cities identified in the FBI’s 100 most dangerous cities to visit list
      (Florida with 11); and Florida is the only state in the nation with more than 8
      cities on the FBI’s 100 most dangerous cities list;

      · 11 of the 12 states the CDC has listed as having the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in America;

      · 9 of the 12 states with 6 or more public servants per 10,000 public employees convicted of corruption; and 8 of the 10 states that Gallup has deemed as being the most corrupt states in the nation;

      · 12 of the 15 states that get back the most federal aid for the tax dollars they
      send to Washington;

      · by far the fewest states that get less federal aid back per taxes they send to
      Washington (3), while there are 14 Democrat run states that get back less than 90 cents/$1 back and are essentially providing the tax dollars to keep America running;

      · In a way that all 10 of the counties in America that CBS News deemed as being ‘The Toughest Places to live” are in GOP-governed states; and 6 of those counties are in the state of Kentucky which is represented in the Senate by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul.

      · In a way that 14 of the 17 recessions and all 3 depressions America has
      experienced since 1900 began under a GOP Pres.; while all 3 presidents in
      office more than 6 years without a recession starting are Democrats: LBJ,
      Clinton & Obama;

      · In a way that the stock market has actually seen negative gains (losses) under 42 years of GOP presidencies since 1930 (according to a Barclay’s analysis) while the market has seen gains of over 300% during 44 years of Democrat presidencies;

      · In a way that America’s GDP has averaged a paltry 2.6%/yr annual grow under GOP Presidents since 1900 while a much more robust 4.3% annual GDP growth under Democrat presidents;

      · In a way that dumbs down the American economy such that under GOP presidents almost ½ the number of jobs are created as under Democrat presidents (Reagan & the 2 Bushes created 24 mil jobs; Carter, Clinton and Obama created 40 mil in fewer yrs in office);

      · In a way that even Lawrence Wilkerson (Colin Powell’s previous Chief of Staff) stated to a group of Republicans in a speech this spring in Texas, that if it wasn’t for all the tax dollars California and New York send to Washington for GOP states to suck back in aid, America’s southern states would look like Bangladesh.

      * Note that for 2015, according to Gallup-Healthways: John Kasich governs America’s 2nd most-miserable state and Mike Pence governed America’s 3rd most-miserable state.

    • easton says:

      ah hahahhahahhahahaha. good one. Trump will coast off the Obama economy before he blows it up with his idiocy, then the Trumpanzees will blame Obama.

    • Sand_Cat says:

      Yeah, we could have a good laugh at that one, if it weren’t for all the people who are like to suffer from the padding of Trump’s and other wealthy carpetbaggers’ wealth from all of that “economic growth.” Are you really that stupid, or are you one of those who expects to benefit from the massive giveaways to the wealthy? Be careful what you wish for. A survey taken a few years back found that something like 80% of those questioned – none of whom were even close – thought they were part of the top 1 or 2%. Are you one of them?

    • Thoughtopsy says:

      Don’t worry… recent news has proved the direction Dirty Donald will go. Lies, showmanship, denials, misdirection and “Oh… did I promise that?”.

      You just haven’t realised what the rest of us realised when we first saw him on the National stage.

      Don’t worry though. There’s absolutely no way he can make it through even 6 months of being president without screwing up “bigly”, filling his own pockets with corrupt money, and getting creamed for it all in the news… then throwing a massive tantrum.

      On this topic… his reply tweet to Alec Baldwin was highly revealing.
      ….He still thinks he’s owed some sort of equal time and false equivalence.
      To be fair the media taught him that by totally sucking him off and ignoring all the terrible things he has done throughout the campaign and pretended he was somehow equivalent.

      But that’s over now. It’s just you. F**king up. And lying.

  7. TechHistoryDoc says:

    Hillary Clinton might have cooled the furry of the masses by including a “Basic Income” plank in her election platform. “Work” is not the goal of the masses, but rather the freedom to have a life that would not chain them to some mindless assembly line job. Basic Income would be tantamount to a “Get out of Jail Free” card.
    The low-wage jobs that have been shipped over seas, especially in China and Japan, technology is obsoleting with no wage technology. Such technology will on the one hand continue to replace the no/low skill jobs, but at the same time minimize the cost of manufactured goods to the point that a Basic Income individual will be able to get along without the attendant costs of going to work. Basic Income should make traffic jams a thing of the past. Such knock-on savings need to be baked into determining the actual future costs of implementing Basic Income legislation.

    • Eleanore Whitaker says:

      First of all, Carrier is STILL planning to move to Mexico. All they did was leave behind what ALL companies who relocate do….enough staff to close the facility. Trump didn’t save 1,000 jobs. Not according to Carrier’s own officials who say that as soon as the $7 million in tax subsidies run out, they are gone.

      Worse, the Carrier official interviewed by Wolf Blitzer said that the real reason they are moving to Mexico is that they can and I quote, “Pay Mexican laborers $24 a week. In the US, we have to pay $30 an hour.”

      What is wrong with trying to reduce US wages is that US corporations NEVER reduce the cost of necessities. What the hell kind of math is that?

      • TechHistoryDoc says:

        Sure, Eleanore, I understand all that I have a Ph.D. in econ. However, the technology diffusion and manufacturing evolution of air-co technology is now undergoing radical change.
        By transferring the older and soon to be obsoleted air-co tech to Mexico this gives Carrier/UT the opportunity to re-engineer for manufacturing its future products.
        Whether traditional air-co products are manufactured in the U.S. or Mexico will soon become irrelevant as parts and assemblies are redesigned for new Nanotech materials and Nano-3D-Printing technology now in the works.
        This whole charade of saving jobs in Indiana is just a theatrical ‘band-aid’ to con the masses. It’s only old wine in new bottles. The Roman Empire understood the weakness of mass psychology. Back then ‘Bread and Circuses’ were the ‘Basic Income’ to sooth the masses. After all, they had no worry of jobs being lost outside their Empire; they simply imported outside labor as slaves while satisfying the base psychic needs of the masses with horrifically brutal sport-executions in their arenas.
        If we want to preserve our civilization, we would bide well to learn from the Romans.

        • Eleanore Whitaker says:

          You are a PhD (Piled HIgh and Deep) in Economics and I am Einstein’s competitor.

          Men like you pretend pretend pretend, lie, lie, lie and then you asshats expect us to believe a word you say?

          First of all, asshat. I worked with a PhD from MIT, a Brit educated at Cambridge in England, several PhD Chemists and Chemical Engineers and MSMEs.

          You make no sense economically or rationally. I know what I heard the official from Carrier say. Now a dipshit like you wants to tell me I didn’t hear him say what I know I did? Sure as hell is piled high and deep on your college degree.

          That Carrier official said in that interview on CNN in no uncertain terms that the main reason for moving their facility out of the US was because they can “pay $24 dollars a week to Mexican laborers. In the US, we have to pay $30 an hour.”

          I am not impressed with blowhards. Especially when I have been lucky enough to be surrounded by the most educated men and women you ONLY find up north where Harvard, Yale, Princeton and all Ivy League schools educate students without the filter of religion.

          As for the production in Mexico, you are prove you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I worked for nearly 25 years with environmental engineers as their tech writer. You bet your butt I know why Carrier still HAS to move to Mexico. It is because in Mexico there are no EPA compliance regulations to produce products using any of the HCFCs that in the US are rated to prevent more holes in the ozone layer. So they’ll put holes in the ozone layer and get away with it.

          But you aren’t too smart Mr. Blowhard. For one thing, Mexico is not going to allow their laborers to continue to work for $24 a week. That is exactly what happened when US corporations shipped jobs off to India. I worked for Akzo Chemical and ADP and as such I know more then a phony like you the economic effect of US corporations thinking they are getting a great deal by shipping jobs offshore. So Mr. Piled High and Deep in Economics, you want to explain just why the government of India jacked the prices of the US contracts for their workers the minute they realized they were being exploited?

          President Nieto of Mexico is nobody’s fool. He will offer that $24 a week to US corporations until all those laborers who get deported back to Mexico demand the American wages they earned here as illegals. Not too smart now are you?

          You can’t seriously think the illegals who end up back in Mexico won’t bitch a blue streak knowing they earned much better wages from the same US corporations that will now move to Mexico. Boy are you a dimwit.

          We saw the very same thing happen in China. The wages of laborers there were low 10 years ago. Now, the prices on Chinese imports are a direct reflection of the increase in the Chinese laborers wages.

          Shove that Piled High and Deep where it will do some good…as toilet paper.

          • sigrid28 says:

            Usually we are in the same lifeboat, EW, but this time I ask you to rethink your position. I think our econ. doc. has not explained well enough what he means by “Basic Income,” which is (I think) a term of art in economics circles that you would understand perfectly if he had explained it better for laywomen like us. I only get it (I think) because we lived in France for five years in the nineties. There many folk were living on “Basic Income,” a combination of benefits that made finding a low-wage job counterproductive. The negative in this was that the Basic Income population had nothing to do but collect grievances like some of the Trump voters who agitate for change even though they benefit from some aspects of the status quo.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            I was barely out of my teens when I owned my first business. I went through a baptism of fire doing my own business accounting. After about 3 years, I finally made sense of it all. In those days, college for farm girls was not an option. Then, I went to work for ADP in their payroll division. By then, I was getting the idea that some phantasm was forcing me to learn that which I believed was impossible. By the time I took the job in environmental engineering, not only did I fully understand business accounting, payroll, corporate budgets and risk assessments, but I was then responsible for nearly 25 years for managing the entire accounting system which was reviewed at the end of every fiscal quarter by a professional CPA Auditor. You bet I figured out economics. Yet, economics, without all the frills, still comes down to two and two must equal four. Balance is always the most desirable aspect of any healthy economy.

            The US doesn’t have economic balance. I know that by virtue of the fact that wealth is held by 1% of the population while they stack the cards against the 99%. How is that good math?

            When it comes to risk, Americans who allow corporations to become government are fools. Right now, we have the oddest situation. The same right wingers who “HATED” hippies are now willing to do the very same thing the hippies did…try something new that has never been done before: Allow a billionaire with a billionaire cabinet to run their government for them. What’s missing from that equation is “WE,” the people.

            Americans risk much more than just their democracy by allowing a man who has NO governmental experience to use corporate practices as government policy. How is a CEO billionaire tycoon going to deal with criticism? By censoring our 1st Amendment rights? How will he deal with those who refuse to obey him? Hand them a pink slip and ship them off to some Siberian coal mine?

            When I took my first job in 1978, I had to first close my two dance schools because my ex, who couldn’t dance a step owned half. I wasn’t able to pay off the mortgage and keep my two sons fed and a roof over their heads on that income. So I took a job with the woman who was then an SBA ombudswoman. That annual salary was $10,000.

            My parents were young adults during the Great Depression. the problem today is that we have a generation of middle aged spoiled overindulged brats who do not want to WORK. Oh sure, they’ll take any job that means being on a computer sitting on their butts all day. But, actually break a sweat work? No way! And, those who manage to work in blue collar jobs end up wanting to retire after 5 years and then sit back and let government do the rest for them. These are the 30 to 50 somethings who are unused to living without central heating as I did as a child. They are unused to having to chop wood or heaven forbid actually cook with a wood stove. You get my family did this and more.

            Now, all they want is EASY. The easier the better and if that means scarfing up their parents SS, Medicare and Medicaid to puff up their Wall Street investment portfolios or their 401Ks, so be it.

            The change Trump voters want is NOT change. It is a total covolution of progress we have made in the last 50 years. No one mines coal anymore. We have solar and wind turbine energy, not to mention geothermal and hydrogen energy.

            But they want us to take this country BACK. How far back? Only far back enough for them to NEVER experience one single drop of sweat or a single blister on their hands. The ones on their butts? Those are permanent.

          • sigrid28 says:

            This is such a great post! Thank you so much for making it a reply to me. There are probably no situations you recount with which I cannot identify except that I never experienced your undeniable success. As to the completion of your expression, I can enthusiastically agree while adding only my own two cents.
            First, I hold out a little more hope than you do for the Millennials, not those who live in Wayne’s World basements, but the ones who have been forced to take a backseat for too long by economic factors beyond their control. Your baptism by fire was accounting. Mine was computer literacy. I see the comparable computer literacy of the Millennials as the key to the kind of refurbished manufacturing that might replace jobs going overseas if only Trump and his like could be bothered to invest.
            Second, my years as a high school teacher in the inner city in Chicago gave me a lasting appreciation for the amazing resiliency and creativity of my minority students. Everyone in my English classes had to read a book a week; one girl started out with teen romances and became hooked on learning for life. She responded magnificently to the littlest push on my part: With thirty-five students to a class, each student only got a little push. A shy young man from one of my classes met me on the bus in the inner city one day when my car broke down far from home, after I had been forced to leave my students and the high school without ever saying goodbye (an anti-Semitic black student had tried to kill me, blaming it on a skinhead). The black student I met on the bus accompanied me most of the way back home. He told me how much he missed my class, adding, “If you have a girl, name her Erica. If you have a boy, name him Eric.” His dignity and positive energy in the face of the cowardly, desperate thing I had been forced to do–leaving without saying goodbye–gives me hope for his children who are, by some quirk of fate, probably Millennials like my son. My students blossomed with almost no chances.

          • dpaano says:

            I find it laughable that the Trump followers want Trump to ship all the illegal aliens out of this country because, apparently, they are “taking away jobs” from our countrymen. However, those jobs; i.e., mowing lawns, washing dishes, picking fruit and vegetables, babysitting, cleaning our homes…..are NOT jobs that any able bodied American citizen is willing to do even if they are unemployed! So, once Trump sends back all the so-called “illegal aliens,” who’s going to do all those jobs? How is a small employer going to find workers to do the jobs that these people were willing to do……they won’t….and so, the small businesses end up going OUT of business due to the lack of being able to find people to work for them! It’s pretty ridiculous that the Trump followers don’t see that the “illegal aliens” were NOT taking away jobs from the American citizen…..they were merely doing jobs that the American citizen would NOT do!

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            You know what is even more humorous? Most of the illegals are hired in Texas. Those big oil boys think mowing their own lawns is for the peons. And their Big haired, big boob job wives can’t afford to take care of their own kids so they hire illegal nannies. Save them money for those $200 manicures.

            Trump is asking for the trouble he gets. But then, what else is new with Trump? His vision is always clouded by his own ego and all he knows is profit and bullying others to get what he wants. That’s his legacy.

            Walmart is not doing well here in NJ. NJ kept Clinton’s Workfare program in place. So, that means that Walmartians can’t collect welfare to supplement their incomes from Walmart for more than 18 months. Then they have to find another job at a higher pay. Walmart here in NJ hires ONLY immigrants who will work for $8/hour. NJ is a high tax state and high cost of living state. No one can live on an $8/hr salary.

            So, Walmart hates NJ’s Workfare program. This only serves to prove that southern businesses rely on welfare to supplement their employees incomes, since Walmart is a southern based business.

            It’s kind of amusing to watch Walmart struggling to keep employees in NJ. They always have “Hiring Now” signs up and their stores are apparently suffering the consequences of poor quality.

          • dpaano says:

            They’re REALLY going to be screwed if Trump decides to charge 45% imports from China and other overseas manufacturers. That may end up putting Walmart out of business, which, in turn, puts employees out on the street (much against Trump’s promises to his idiot voters)! Should be interesting to watch… the meantime, I’m still waiting to hear when he’s bringing his clothing manufacturing back from China and Vietnam…..funny how we don’t hear about that!

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Here in NJ, immigrants who barely speak English are ALL Walmart hires. They are the only ones who will accept $8/hr wages.

            You want to know the truth? I don’t think Trump will make it to Inauguration Day. How can he with this election rigging hanging over his head? He has managed to enrage voters on both sides of the aisle. Trump doesn’t want to be like ANY of the 44 prior US presidents. What that tells me is that Trump believes NONE of the 44 were as superior or knowledgeable as he is. However, look at who he has chosen for his cabinet, billionaires. If money is the only barometer for being successful in this world, it sure as hell makes dummies of Einstein, Tesla and Professor Nash, the 2 Nobel Prize winner for Physics.

            We cannot pretend Trump is not in this for power alone. As such, even his choice of Scott Pruitt for the EPA is a farce.

            Hang tight. All that has to happen now is for a single Republican to disobey his Lordship Trump and he will get his Russian hackers to disclose thieir emails like Gowdy demanded of Hillary. Fun fun fun fun…watching the GOP stupids walk into their own Trump mess. He’s got them by the balls right now and he has only to squeeze tightly when they refuse to break withe constitutional voting rights.

          • dpaano says:

            I’ve been an optimist all my life, and I NEVER give up hope! However, I don’t think Trump is going to back out before he’s inaugurated…’ll take a nuclear explosion to get his butt out of the White House (or “in” to in since he doesn’t seem to want to live there like a normal president)!! As for the Republicans in the Congress….not sure if any of them will be brave enough to take him on….but we only need 3 on our side to get the majority vote….hopefully, that won’t be difficult, but I’m sure they’ll be afraid of what Trump will do to them if they go against him in ANY way! It would be a no-win situation for them.

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            I thinking it won’t be the Dems in a rush to get rid of Trump. They already know that McConnell knew before the election about the Russian hacking. If what we have seen of the middle aged rabid dogs of the GOP is any clue, they will never fall on their swords for Trump.

            I am reminded here of Julius Caesar. He did all of the ruling while his own men behind him plotted to be rid of him.

            The Republicans cannot be so stupid as to think if McConnell and others in the GOP knew, they will go down with Trump for remaining silent and allowing the election to be hacked.

            I think this is the pregnant pause before “it” hits the fan. Trump’s legacy would be has ruthlessness and belligerence, which might have been cute to his supporters. But, when you are found to be in cahoots with Russians to rig an election in your favor, I can’t think of a more masterful poetic justice falling up Caesar Trump.

          • dpaano says:

            I tend to agree, but I think that some of the Republican Congressmen/women, at least those who will be up for reelection in 2018, might be a little hesitant to go against him because they are afraid of what he can do to them. He’s pretty intimidating, and I’m sure he will make it VERY difficult for any Republican that goes against anything he wants to do. We can always hope….as I said, I’m an optimist and I NEVER give up hope! As for his followers giving a damned about him being in cahoots with the Russians….I don’t think they actually care. They’re still under the spell that Trump is actually going to do something for them and make their lives better! It’s already pretty obvious to most of us with brains that his choices for his cabinet and administration will NOT do much for them except to take money out of their pockets in the end!

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Trump has one weakness. He thinks he knows it all. That comes from mommy Mary Ann doting on her little boy until Daddy Fred had enough and shipped him off to military school.

            But really…don’t you love it? When since WaterGate have Republicans EVER gotten this close to the flame?

            Trump can intimidate Republicans as no Democrats EVER could. He has them in the palm of his hand. But, the real problem is what happens if it is proven that Trump masterminded the Russian hacking to tilt the election in his favor?

            There may be things Trump can get away with. Rigging an Election is not one of them. Right now, there is proof by the CIA and 17 intelligence agencies many of who are our European allies that Trump was in cahoots with Wikileaks. All that information Wikileaks got on our military came from a transgendered US soldier who is going to prison for life. It some of the classified 700,000 documents she leaked to Wikileaks proves to be how the Russians got into the DNC emails, it would prove beyond doubt that their intent was to aid Trump to win the election.

            It is my belief that the real war will be between male egos. Trumps, the Koch boys, Mitch McConnell and McCain. This would be a nuking the likes of which this country has never seen before.

            I am not certain that the Electoral College can support a presidential candidate if there is the appearance of election rigging using Russian hackers. If they vote for him, they are as complicit in the fraud. Already 3 electors have defected. The majority of electors in the EC are Republicans chosen by their legislators. The collusion of that and manipulation by Republicans is all too obvious this time around.

          • dpaano says:

            So true, and it’s a little disconcerting that he’s so against the investigation. You’d think that if he were so certain he won the election fair and square on his own merits, he’d welcome an investigation to prove that. What is he hiding….other than his income tax returns? He hasn’t even stepped into the Oval Office, and he’s already alienated China, several aerospace companies, etc. What more is he planning…..I’m scared to think about it!

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            Most of us could never regress to the childish level of Trump and his supporters. But, once you consider his propensity for denial, you see his strategy to cover up his guilt is denial.

            Two Senators, Reed, (not Harry) a Dem from MD and a Republican both believe that all of the evidence collected thus far by the CIA and President’s investigatory team only supports the idea that the ONLY reason the Russians decided to pull off such a dangerous stunt with a world power like the US was because they figured if they manipulated the election Trump would win anyway and there would never be any investigation because Trump would NEVER ALLOW it. That’s the reason the proof has to go forward before the election. Once he is in office, all hands are tied and he gets away with it yet again. The Russians had nothing to worry about so long as Trump was declared the winner. Now that there are such massive suspicions, it didn’t work out as Trump planned and not only has he jeopardized our country but I am fairly certain Russia is not thrilled with these investigations that Trump likely assured them would NEVER happen.

  8. Patriot says:

    Isn’t this the same people who was telling us why he would lose the election? They will never learn.

    • easton says:

      good lord, Hillary has a popular vote total of over 2.5 million and if not for Comey putting his thumb on the scale and bad polling she would have campaigned in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pa. and won the election.
      As it is he drew an inside straight winning only 46.1% of the popular vote and not even a plurality of the popular vote, only a moron would think he has some kind of mandate. Now we are stuck with a narcissistic buffoon for 4 years, one who has made every kind of outlandish promise to white trash low income workers, the ones who will suffer the most and rightfully so under Trump.
      It will be a glorious trainwreck one that will haunt the GOP for generations.

      • Patriot says:

        I guess you were also one of them too that didn’t think he would win.Listen,
        it doesn’t matter if Hillary won the popular vote by 5 million. If she
        doesn’t have the delegate count it’s goodbye. That is how the system
        works and that is what you have to focus on like Trump did. Again you are doing the same thing again by saying it will be a train wreck with Trump. Do you have a crystal ball? Liberals never seem to learn and you can tell by how they elected Pelosi again.

        • easton says:

          and you have learned the wrong thing. Stop acting as though Trump won some huge landslide victory and that Democrats are now doomed for all eternity. Of course it would have mattered if she won by 5 million because if she had she would have won the election in a rout. As it is it was a perfect shitstorm at the end, polling led Democrats to believe Pa. Wisconsin, and Michigan were in the bag and they didn’t campaign in those states at all, in addition Comey literally jumped up and down on the scale TWICE, once with his initial report and again a mere 3 days before the election reminding people Hillary was a “crook” even though she wasn’t.
          Beyond that, Americans are fickle as hell, they expect instant results and Trump can’t produce any of them meaning in 2018 and 2020 he will reap what he sowed and there won’t be a “crooked” Hillary nor a demented old Sanders to run against.
          And yes I didn’t think he could win because the polls said he wouldn’t. I don’t possess any magic eight ball to see the future, when all the polls show him losing (except for one, the LATimes one and even that was wrong), nor did I think Americans were stupid enough to vote for a batguano nuts person like Trump either. The man is narcissistic, misogynistic, racist, greedy, and an imbecile.
          And I love your pigeonholing people, I am not a Liberal…far from it, I support medicare premium support and social security privatization, I think Roe Vs. Wade was a terrible decision, I used to be an outright Hillary hater but I recognized that compared to Trump she was sane. I am a Democrat only because Republicans are anti-gay, anti-science, anti-minority, etc. Given my choice I would rather have seen a campaign between Jim Webb and John Kasich, but that was not in the cards.
          There is a huge silver lining for Democrats (apart from the SCOTUS), just as Obama and Bill Clinton suffered from disastrous midterms (Bush got lucky the first time only because of 9/11 and the fact that the economy was still humming from Clinton), and those Presidents were all sane. Trump is already a disaster and he hasn’t even taken office yet. In 4 years Democrats can nominate a potted plant and Trump will get crushed. If YOU learned anything about the Republican party of today you would know that they are disasters at running government.
          As to Pelosi….really??? You honestly think minority leader in the House is relevant to anything??? There is no filibuster in the House, Democrats in the House are little more than decoration.
          Republicans have thrown all in on a white nationalist/oligarch administration promising miracles to white trash that mining jobs and manufacturing jobs will come back. As I said, it will be a glorious train wreck and watching Trump think he can lie his way through 4 years of misery will be a wonder to behold.
          No, it is you who have learned not just nothing, but the wrong thing. Trump promised winning, winning, winning and he still only got 46.1% of the vote, go ahead and tell me after he delivers failure after failure he will be re-elected.

        • Sand_Cat says:

          “Delegate count”? Well, we’re all impressed with your knowledge. Yes, who cares if the choice of the people goes down to ignominious defeat if you and your friends get your way?
          Did you choose your screen name as an exercise in irony – maybe you’ll need to look that up – or are you really dimwitted enough to think that your attitude is that of a “patriot”?
          Starting with “conservative,” you zealots have redefined so many words in a manner that makes them meaningless, or the opposite of their commonly-accepted meanings: “liberty,” “freedom,” “independence,” “conservation,” “wise use,” and many others. I guess “Patriot” might as well join them on the garbage heap.

        • Tom S says:

          Yes, “If my lips are moving, I’m Lying” Trump has already revealed the “crystal ball” to all who would look.

          Why is it that everyone with a “Last refuge of scoundrels” handle, do not have a truly Patriotic thought in their mind?

          Agree about Pelosi.

        • Eleanore Whitaker says:

          I guess you are blind and deaf. Hillary won the popular vote by a margine of over 2 million plus votes. Anyone can rig the Electoral College votes.

          It’s as simple as getting away with overpopulated voting districts to make it appear there are more Republicans in a voting district then Dems. The very thing your boy Texas Tom DeLay got his butt in trouble for.

        • Thoughtopsy says:

          Hey idiot.
          Your side predicted Obamacare death panels, Sharia Law, Jade Helm, and Obama “taking all your guns”… TWICE.

          Remember? You assured all your brainless Republican morons after four years of Obama specifically NOT taking your guns that it “absolutely was going to happen this time” if he got in.

          You have absolutely no standing or high ground to talk about hyperbole. Because your side predicted the end of the world based on someone Competent.

          We’re predicting countrywide issues based on Trump’s long business and personal history of being a know-nothing, learn-nothing racist, misogynist conman who, as the evidence shows, fails to pay what he owes, screws people over, and bankrupts businesses.
          All those are facts. We are extrapolating these to match the position he is about to hold. Unlike you morons we actually have facts, evidence and a track record of him doing exactly these things. It’s not refutable.

          Back under your rock, pinhead.

      • Tom S says:

        It wasn’t “bad polling”. Now the task is to figure out how Reince and his Govs stole the Vote.

        • Eleanore Whitaker says:

          That’s an easy one. But, in order to get it to the SC, a single US taxpayer has to be able to get the proof that the Russian hacking and Wikileaks gathered enough information to alter and delete votes. In the states that show the highest numbers in polling, the math is bad.

          All this proves is that the government has been stolen by billionaires. Count the number of billionaires Trump put in his cabinet already. Then you get the hicks who think these billionaires won’t USE their positions to enrich themselves?

    • Sand_Cat says:

      Quite true. Even if Trump crashes the economy and bankrupts you and your friends, you’ll swear it was all the liberals’ fault and swear undying loyalty to him and his den of thieves. How many of the idiots like you suffered from the Bush economic meltdown and benefited from Obama’s efforts, despite fanatical opposition from the people YOU elected? How many of the working-class people who voted for Trump got shafted by people like his choice for Treasury, and how many will suffer further during the triumphal reign of one of the least scrupulous of all the 1%? What were you thinking, when in order to stop Wall Street abuses and business as usual in Washington, you voted for a Wall-Street insider and self-worshipping petulant child who made his money doing virtually ALL of the things you claimed to be voting against ,only worse?

    • Eleanore Whitaker says:

      He DID lose the election. Anyone can bribe the Electors in the Electoral College. You guys tried this before. How did Bush win his elections? Not by popular vote vs. Gore. Don’t you ever shut your big mouths and get your butts working?

  9. stsintl says:

    According to the data at this website

    full-time employment increased from 110 million to 125 million during the Obama years. And, the average hourly wage has increased from $17.50/hr to $20/hr. When America was “White and Great” in 1975, total full-time employment was 70 million.

  10. Tom S says:

    Note to All: The Art of the Deal carried AN EXTRA $5M price tag. That is how much “If my lips are moving I’m Lying” Trump and #PenceMustGo! promised Carrier to keep 800 jobs in Indiana …. several thousand others have already been moved there.
    Here’s a Corporate Welfare snapshot: #PenceMustGo! gave Carrier $2.5M to open/expande in Indiana a few years ago. Now, after they’ve relocated most of the operation to Mexico, #PenceMustGo! get Trump to promise another $5M to keep just 800 jobs in Indiana – just for political purposes.
    Source – IndyStar.

    My conjob friends are promising an incredible ride the next 4 years … bronco-busting won’t compare.

    The Repugs STOLE WI, MI, NC and FL, maybe OH & PA somehow. The Green’s Re-Count will not found out what happened to D votes or where the R votes came from.

  11. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    Look no matter what the right wing tries to say, they got snookered by Trump BIG time. These are people who always think they know better. These are people who are educated through the filter of religion in every one of their colleges, high schools and grade school.

    If you look at what happened in their states in the last two administrations, you see precisely why they fell for Trump’s “Make America Great Again.” Translated in Trumpese: “Make America GRATE again.”

    Bush was responsible for massive offshoring because he refused to tax these corporations. So, these Republican states lost jobs in blue collar work simply because these corporations could get it tax free and labor offshore was cheaper.

    Then, the last 8 years of obstruction by Republicans intended to take down Dem states had just the opposite effect: LA, OK, IA, KS, TN, AL, NC and FL all bitching about the high cost of healthcare. Because they hated healthcare reforms and were too stupid to realize that allowing thousands of small healthcare insurance agencies to draw off a piece of the Big 6 HMOs pie meant lower costs. DUH.

    Now they are insisting they need to go back to the kind of Company Store wages and coal mining jobs that are out of tough in today’s worlds. But we are supposed to feel sorry for them while they rob us blind of our federal tax dollars?

  12. Eleanore Whitaker says:

    Right now, the Republican states outnumbered Dem states. But, according to the protections of the U.S. Constitution, states in the minority still have equal rights under Constitutional law. That isn’t the interpretation you get from bully right wingers, Trump or the Republicans. They live on, “I won! I won!” Yep…they did…a beauty contest. One in which they have to sidle up to their contest mouthpiece in order to “qualify.”

    That’s government? And as for that BS that the Republican states lost jobs. That is their OWN fault. These are people who are always saying they want to take their country “BACK.” Well, guess what? The rest of the world is in hi tech mode and they are still in coal mining mode.

    If they lost manufacturing and other blue collar jobs, it was not due to Dem policies. It was due to Republican policies that allowed corporations in Bush’s term of office to offshore jobs in the thousands all while he handed them US tax cuts and US tax subsidies. What corporation wouldn’t take a windfall like that when they know they’ll pay $24 a week salaries in Mexico and pay NO US taxes or have to provide healthcare or other employee benefits?

    No matter what right wingers says to the contrary, the shoe is now on the other foot. Everything they bitched a blue streak about is all their own fault. They get most of our federal tax revenues and still they can’t make it.

    Their vengeance of 8 years of obstruction NEVER hurt Dem states. We do fine. It hurt theirs. But, as usual, these are stupid people who live in the Great Depression Era and the Pre-Civil era. They make take THEIR country back. They WILL NEVER TAKE OURS back!

    • Tom S says:

      I think you might in your last paragraph underestimate “these … stupid people” … I think they want to take this Country back to the 11th Century.

      We have California, Oregon, NV and Washington – and soon Arizona – to connect to New Mexico and Colorado as a Safe Haven. Those States combined Gross Product would rival Germany as 5th largest in the World.

      New York and New England can form their own Safe Haven!

      • Eleanore Whitaker says:

        Tom, I think you are now seeing the handwriting on the wall for Dem states. If we are outnumbered, we don’t have to be bullied by the Republican majorit at every turn. We know they rig elections and they always do it the same way: jigging around with the electors in the Electoral College.

        What these states forget is, they were the master of all of this division among the states. They were the ones lusting for total governmental control. That may be okay in dictatorships or as you stated 11th Century England where the overtaxed were also outnumbered by power mongers. But, there are too many Dem states today who have become the sole support of Republican states.

        If they believe money is power, let’s see if the Koch boys, Adelson and Trump can match the money money of ALL of the Dem states. Not only that but if you study where these 1%ers get their most wealth from, it is Dem states. Check out how much money the Koch boys earn in just the NY/NJ Metro area.

        For the Dem States, since we have lost all power in government, what have we really got to lose by going insular? By creating a federation of states that is a country within a country? We didn’t start this division. The Republicans did.

        Their mistake is in thinking that living, breathing humans have no options to overturn what they do. They won. A president elect who is already acting as if he is president before the current president’s term of office has expired. They won a slime ball billionaire tycoon and their own billionaire cabient members.

        We do not have to go down when they do. It is time to pull up tracks and retrograde back to states’ rights…the very thing these Republican states have used time and again to get out of obeying federal laws. This next 4 years will be remembered as “Our Turn.”

        • dpaano says:

          Our California governor has already said he will NOT allow the Federal government to do anything with our citizens, illegal or otherwise! AND, he will NOT allow California to go the way of the other Republican states as far as climate control and environmental issues are concerned. We passed laws that keep this state clean, and no idiot president is going to come along and change that….at least not for THIS state!

          • Eleanore Whitaker says:

            NJ is one of the toughest states with regard to environmental compliance. I worked with environmental engineers in the smallest and oldest environmental engineering company in the US for 24 years and 10 months. What I learned about environmental compliance is that the states that uses “their” states rights to avoid EPA compliance and have the weakest state compliance regulations have gotten away with dumping the costs of their massive pollution and pollution fines on DEM states. NJ exceeds the EPA regs by a margin of 10 to 1. We had to. Our state gets bombarded by the midwest coal fired plants that spew all manner of polluted air into our state which is downwind of theirs.

            NJ also had to regulate the enormous dangers from water pollution that was coming from southern Republican states along our coast line.

            If you were to configure the actual cost of Republican state pollution and how that adds to your state taxes just to keep your own state less polluted, your hair would stand on end.

            Here’s an example. We had a client company in 1989 when I first began working for Ambient Engineering. They were getting flack from the EPA for dumping coal ash into streams off their property lines. They were warned at least six times to cease and desist. Our PhD from MIT tried to get them to understand that the expense of using proper water pollution flocculents wasn’t prohibitive and would help them maintain EPA compliance. They didn’t like that recommendation and went right on polluting. Now, WVA is whining about water pollution from coal ash. Make sense to you? And, the worst is that client company is one of the biggest polluters on the EPA Super Fund list.

            The reality of the kind of Republican thinking that since Dem states are outnumbered by Republican states, Dem states have lost all of our rights. WRONG. We are all planning to do what Republican states do all the time: rely on our states’ rights as you pointed out. The idea that they can just force us to keep paying for their messes on our tax dollars is not going to fly. Now, they will take the hit and be forced to tap into their state dollars.

            It never was Dem states who were hurt one single bit by Republican obstruction. We just keep going forward, onward and upward while they lay back in the swampy slime they create.

            The joke is the more they push to take our tax dollars to spend as they please, the more resistence they will be met with. We are not their plantation slaves.

            All that bitching and whining about how they lost manufacturing jobs is their OWN fault. How dare they now expect us to feel sorry for them when it was their Republican president who saw the biggest amount of offshoring from 2000 to 2008. All because he handed them US tax dollars in subsidies while they paid NO US taxes and enjoyed the cheap labor. It was always ALL about cheap labor just like it was in the south and midwest in the plantation days.

          • plc97477 says:

            It’s not just the cheap labor, they also like that they don’t have to worry about leaving a mess. There are little regulations controlling pollution.

  13. Patriot says:

    Such nasty language from you libs. Oh well, I understand how tough it is for you because it happened to me with Obama in 2008/2012. Only I didn’t get nasty.

    • FireBaron says:

      Oh? You mean he promised to save your job by forcing the company to operate at a financial loss and keep unproductive people like yourself on the payroll?

      • Patriot says:

        Sorry FireBaron, but I am a successfully retired 67 yr old senior. My life experience is what gave me confidence in selecting and voting for the Donald. Just so you know I was a Democrat for most of my life until about 10 years ago.

        • dpaano says:

          Let’s see how “successful” a retiree you are once he takes away your Social Security and Medicare. He conned the people in the Rust Belt with promises that he cannot keep… and see!

    • dpaano says:

      Why is it always “you libs?” There are a lot of people that do not consider themselves to be “libs” that didn’t vote for Trump….they were the ones with intelligence and logic to see the problems that would arise if he were elected….the same problems that we are seeing on a daily basis from him! Nothing nasty about that!

  14. says:

    DONNY DUMP wont do nothing for no one but him self he could care less for anyone . its his own EGO that’s all . he ran a free clown show for over a year and got so many brain dead fools to follow him to the end of a bridge then he makes the idiots jump off (AND THE MORONS DO HAPPLY ) he will only bury the country . his goal im sure is to bury the country deeper then the DIRSY BUSH did . just hope the DUMPSTER full of crap gets caught before he runs and hides in Russia with his B/F PUYTTHEAD that’s his plan he will screw the country doing so much and many illegal dealing here and then thy to leave run like he is draft dodging like the coward POS he is . he is nothing but a lying RICK HEAD and its his ( not that he cares about them any ways ) family that will take the hits for the KING CLOWN CAR DRIVER

  15. FireBaron says:

    True Irony. The plant will remain open, but many of those jobs he “saved” will be replaced by automation in order to meet UTCs financial plans. So much for being the good guy.

    • dpaano says:

      Plus, Carrier and United Technologies are STILL going to be laying off a large portion of its workers and moving some of the factory jobs to Mexico… much for saving about 800 jobs and losing over 1300 of them anyway! Even the union president noted that Trump didn’t do all that much to help Carrier’s employees! It was too little, too late! Additionally, using taxpayer’s money and bribery is NOT the way to do business in this nation… may be the way that Trump has done it in the past, but it isn’t how it’s done in the big time!

  16. says:

    the founding father’s im sure didn’t plan on something like this happing . if thy did im sure thy would had something in place to have fixed this if and it did happen >>. the whole and big picture here is ,well just maybe the CIA was doing just their job and checking out all the bull going on here . But its DONNY DUMP and his sneaky sliming way around every thing he touches . first look at what happen from the start the GOP gang of pinhead idiots admitted doing all thy could to make Hillary look bad . the DUMPSTER had his dirty hands in this deep . if it been all this Russian bull going on against the DUMPSTER the gang of pinhead idiots would be going nuts (but what did thy do ? what thy do best NOTHING ) and for some way the FIB took the DUMPSTER’s side here the coma-toast Comey (<FBI clown ) had to be locked in some way to the DUMPSTERDONNY DUMP for him to do another thing of the EMAIL bull again 9 days before the election that was the last straw for the last of the voter to hear the bull . (the brain dead DUMPSATER followers where always with the CLOWN CAR DRIVER anyways ) then 2 days before the election the COMA CLOWN comes out and says all is ok now with the emails giving those 7 days for people to vote for DONNY DUMP . be it was the other way around and all was on the DUMPSTER ( and he still had all his own bull out there and all true from his own big mouth ) it was all over shadowed but the FBI and the email bull . look at today the way things worked out women are afraid to come out and say thy have been sexual assaulted because no one will believe them (even when the assaulter tells all just how he dose it on tape . still thy are all called lier's . so what dose that say for any one that gets sexual assaulted or even raped ? don't say nothing for nothing will happen and no one will believe you anyways . so the DONNY DUMP CLOWN just gave all the free go to go out and sexual assault and heck why not rape who ever you want its ok you can do it I did and got away with it

  17. says:

    (<fbi clown="" )="" had="" to="" be="" locked="" in="" some="" way="" to="" the="" dumpsterdonny="" dump="" for="" him="" to="" do="" another="" thing="" of="" the="" email="" bull="" again="" 9="" days="" before="" the="" election="" that="" was="" the="" last="" straw="" for="" the="" last="" of="" the="" voter="" to="" hear="" the="" bull="" .="" (the="" brain="" dead="" dumpsater="" followers="" where="" always="" with="" the="" clown="" car="" driver="" <<<<<why is this texts like this ???????/

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