What Americans Should Learn From The ‘Republican Apocalypse’

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What Americans Should Learn From The ‘Republican Apocalypse’

December 21st, 2012 12:34 am Joe Conason

What may finally consume the House Republicans is their boundless contempt for the American public – a contempt bluntly demonstrated in their refusal to consider any reasonable compromise with President Obama to avoid the so-called “fiscal cliff” on December 31. They know from the election results (and every poll) that the public believes taxes should be raised on the wealthy. They know that the public wants bipartisan compromise. And they know that the approval rating of the House Republicans, in contrast to the president’s upwardly trending numbers, are veering toward historic lows.

Moreover, they claim to believe that the major tax hikes and spending cuts that will occur on January 1, if negotiations, fail, will be ruinous for the American and perhaps the world economy. (And never mind that this concern validates Keynesian economics, flatly contradicting their professed ideology.) Failure to achieve a deal may result in a renewed recession or worse.

Yet the majority of Republican members adhere so blindly to their far-right ideology that on Thursday evening, they humiliated their own leadership by refusing to support Speaker John Boehner’s “Plan B” — and effectively scuttled negotiations between the House leadership and the White House. Boehner thought a bill to increase taxes only on households earning more than $1 million annually would pass the House, as Majority Leader Eric Cantor confidently announced. “We’re going to have the votes,” he said on Thursday afternoon. Several hours later the House leaders cancelled the roll call on the tax bill, admitting that they didn’t have the votes.

This embarrassing episode – the “Mayan Apocalypse” of the Republicans Party – demonstrates again why they are unfit for the responsibilities of national office.

They proved their unfitness the first time in the summer of 2011, when they held the national debt ceiling hostage, supposedly to reduce spending, and succeeded only in damaging both the nation’s credit rating and the economic recovery. Now they have declared their unwillingness to negotiate with a newly re-elected president, who won easily on the taxation issue. Although they held the majority, they actually lost seats and received fewer total votes than the House Democrats. But still they see no reason to deal with the president or acknowledge the national consensus.

Naturally, public anger at the Republicans is growing. But how furious would people feel if they fully understood this latest absurd episode on Capitol Hill? Boehner’s proposal was exceptionally generous to the wealthiest taxpayers – and mean to the poor and working families.

His Plan B would have extended the Bush tax cuts for their first million dollars of income; repealed a limit on tax deductions by the highest-income households; established a dividend tax rate of only 20 percent; and maintained an estate tax break for those same highest-income families worth an average $1.1 million. At the same time, according to the authoritative Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, Boehner’s bill would have ended various tax credits for low-income and middle-income families, costing them roughly $25 billion a year and driving millions of American children into poverty.

But awful as that proposal was, it was deemed too liberal by the dominant faction in the Republican caucus. They found it so offensively decent, so treasonously moderate, that they made fools of their own leaders and themselves rather than let negotiations continue. (Their spending bill was even worse.)

The president is fortunate in his opposition, whose obstinacy and extremism may yet prevent him from making a terrible deal to damage Social Security or Medicare when neither is necessary. He wanted to make deal – very badly – but there is nobody with the competence or sanity with whom to make a deal, not even a raw deal.

Now Obama must explain clearly what has happened. Perhaps then voters will begin to draw the obvious conclusion – that this country’s problems cannot be addressed, let alone solved, until they remove these Republicans from power.

Tags: Barack Obama, Eric Cantor, fiscal cliff, GOP, john boehner, taxes, Tea Party

http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Jones/827014412 Daniel Jones

We must clean house, or the House will be the House of Un-representatives forever
http://profile.yahoo.com/PMVMZMDLRQL3TRK5RNOHJVZPHU stoptheinsanity

Congressional RethugLIARcons adhere to far right-wing ideas and policies which cater to extremist views and ideology and is beholden to the rich, big corporations, Grover Norquist, Murdoch, Adelson, Koch Brothers, and others. They remain stalwarts, intransigents, uncompromising, and unwilling to carry out the work and will of the American people. They have such an entrenched hatred and animosity toward President Obama that even the slightest idea of working and compromising with him would appear treasonous. RethugLIARcons are more interested in implementing their own agenda regardless of what a majority of Americans may think, believe, or vote for. It is the responsibility of the American voter to wake up and throw out these RethugLIARcon politicians from office. Any progress in our country will not occur until these destroyers of democracy are thrown out on their butts!!!!
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7DKWSXHQIDBW5PUAPZ2HZAYYUY Baron Cormac

Unfortunately you folks outside of New England allowed these mooks to return to office. They are not the “Class of 94″ elected with Newt Gingrich’s “Contract with America”. Instead they are a more idealistic and less realistic brand of Conservatives who believe all the hoopla of the Tea Party, and Grover Norquist, and Brett Bozzell. They do not understand, nor do they want to understand the workings of government. Instead, they want to continue spewing their idiocy, and try to force the “grown ups” to stoop to their level.
Too bad we have to wait until 2014 to finally get rid of these blithering idiots.

Gladys5215G

At the rate we’re going, waiting for 2014 to get rid of these guys won’t even matter because by then things on our side will be so out of control.
RobertCHastings

Please remember that most states provide for constitutionally supported recall elections. A nationwide movement or call to arms by Progressives for recalls around the country would throw the fear of Armageddon into many Republicans, some of whom,believe it or not, are actually intelligent. Scott Walker in Wisconsin narrowly averted recall, and his counterpart in Michigan is very likely to face a recall election of his own. It is not always necessary for us to wait 2 – 6 years for us to correct our mistakes, as long as we recognize them as such.

Erik Nash

But, didn’t the boneheads in Michigan pretty much make it so that they didn’t have to face any recalls whatsoever?

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FJSNVNUILKGXAQKZTKQP27E6FE Robert

Yeah, along with ram-rodding RTW (No hearings, record time from introduction to the Gov’s desk, and a token apropriation attached to prevent repeal by the voters) and some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the nation. 2014 can’t get here soon enough!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7DKWSXHQIDBW5PUAPZ2HZAYYUY Baron Cormac

Last time I checked, only 19 states have recall provisions. If we had it in Connecticut, John Rowland, Jodi Rell and Joe Lieberman wouldn’t have survived as long as they did.
Republicans_Demise

Newt Gingrich quotes from 2012 election loss analysis:

“I was so shaken by how wrong I was in projecting a Republican win on election night… Election night results have forced me to rethink everything I understood about how America makes political decisions.”

“Too many Republicans underestimate the scale of the threat we face.”

“No Republican should kid themselves about the scale of President Obama’s political achievement.”

“Unless Republicans profoundly and deeply rethink their assumptions… the Clinton-Obama majority could become as dominant as the Roosevelt majority was from 1932 to 1968 presidentially and from 1930 to 1994 in the House of Representatives.”

“A truly national party also has to learn to compete in urban America.”

LOLOL:
“The entire psychology of writing off vast parts of a country or state and focusing narrowly may make some sense for a specific campaign. but it is a formula for permanent minority status when adopted by a party”.

“From a geographic perspective how do we write off New England, New York, California, Illinois, etc and think we are going to compete. One analyst noted that the Democratic majority starts with about 250 electoral votes and simply has to find 20 extra electoral votes to win the Presidency… If we were a sports team with that record every fan would be demanding profound change.”

“The current Republican consulting class and their professional campaign acolytes simply don’t know enough to provide the level of knowledge we need… it is vital that the Republicans insist on changes that are measurable… For too long we have tolerated consultants and staff promising change as they went back to their comfortable but losing ways… It may be bad for the GOP but it is good for them… They like to raise money and spend money. Over the last six presidential elections they have been in the minority five times. If money were the answer by now they would have found a majority.”

widollar

If ever a political party was completely out of touch with reality, its themembers of the GOP. They are an embarrassment to America and continue to act and say very stupid things on many topics, including gun control. A pathetic bunch of losers at best!

CPANewYork

They remind me of the Whig Party in the middle of the nineteenth century. They became so out of touch that the pro-abolition wing formed the Republican Party in 1854.

http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

I don’t trust Boehner, Ryan, Cantor and the rest of the gang. I believe what they are doing is forcing the President to come up with specifics on spending reductions, such as the SS COLA, which they will turn around and use it against Democrats in 2014. The GOP has been offering numbers, never specifics, and that is not an accident. They are focused on 2014 and the President is taking the bait.
Let the House, which controls the purse, come up with the spending reductions they have been clamoring for the past 3.5 years. If they don’t know what to cut after all the rhetoric on this subject, tell them to shut up.

old_blu

I was thinking yesterday that Boehner and the rest of the Republicans are letting the tax rates expire, and then after the first of the year or later, they can do some tax cuts and go from zero to hero in one stroke of the pen and still be right where the Democrats want it right now. (just a thought)

I would like to know what do you think about that, I would also like to wish you a Merry Christmas, I hope you are doing well Dominick.

http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

Thank you. I feel better everyday, although a setback delayed the process quite a bit. Merry Christmas to you and your family as well.

I don’t think the GOP will let the Bush tax cuts expire. The most likely outcome is a compromise on a few issues, including taxes for the wealthiest Americans, and a delay on spending reductions. The problem with the latter is not that our politicians don’t know how to reduce spending, but that doing so is bound to offend constituencies critical to their re-election. It is easy to promise things and call for fiscal responsibility, what is not so easy is having the courage to stand for what is right, regardless of political fallout. They will kick the can down the road like they usually do and both sides will wait for the other to blink first.

neeceoooo

I watched Joe Scarborough go off on the mindset of the republicans this morning. He is appalled that Boehner will not bend in any way and then he told the rest of his party to go home because there was nothing to discuss.
I am glad that you are on the mend, good luck in the new year.

William Quigley

Have you taken close look at Boehner lately? This man has aged 20 years in 6 months. He’s on the horns of dilema that has no easy solution. He would like to retain his speakership, but has no viable way forward with a few tea party extremist. Wish him well as our national economy hangs on finding a solution to the country’s fiscal problems

old_blu

You are right I was on the tea baggers web site the other day and they are throwing him under the bus.
neeceoooo

I heard that it is still the Grover Norquist influence.

oldtack

Anytime anyone signs a binding agreement to do anything then that person has given up their right to freedom of choice.

That is what has happened with this Norquist pledge. These persons, eager for voting support, signed this pledge to never in any circumstance to raise taxes and so they feel trapped.
When a Congressman pledges to walk “lockstep” on any matter then that person has abrogated their responsibility to represent their constituents in what is good for the Country as opposed to what is the dictates of the Party.

If your Senators or Representatives have signed this pledge or any other pledge other than their oath (pledge) taken at their swearing in ceremony then they need to be replaced at the next election.
neeceoooo

I live in a southern red state and I know they have signed it. My voice doesn’t usually count here but I try anyway.
idamag

Yesterday, Grover Norquist gave Boehner permission to go ahead with his plan-B. The godfather has spoken.
neeceoooo

I just want to know, who gave Grover Norquist that much authority?
Michael

He had no authority – until all those ignorant politicians gave it to him by signing that stupid pledge.

idamag

William, his party has as little respect for Boehner as they do the rest of us.

vaughn_p

Although speculating, as is old_blu and all others replying to old_blu’s comment, my suspicion is, honestly without intending offense, a typical progressive ascription to Republicans of a thoroughly rational, carefully, thought out and implemented plan. Admitting I cannot prove it, I doubt this is what is unfolding.

More plausible to me is the Republican Party is in disarray, a tearing apart of a delicate coalition built up in the late 1970s. Basic to the party is a base of business interests who are moderate on social issues. With the recession at the end of the 1970s, blue collar workers finding themselves in competition with minorities and women legitimated by the Great Society, joined the Republican Party.

This latter group has grown by the addition of white collar workers similarly pressured by minorities and women. Fostering this insecurity of both blue and white collar white males is the catering to the business interests by every administration since Reagan. Republican presidential candidates hammering Romney for his wealth in February 2012 shows this.

Disaffected blue and white collar white males have grown to such an extent, they have taken over the Republican Party, displacing the wealthy to whom Boehner caters, like all his Republican predecessors. Note how his “Plan B” effectively served the interests of the very wealthy alone. Progressives miss this because mistakenly perceiving the Republicans as a harmonious whole.

Hopeless in the despair of losing both their economic well-being and social status, like Samson, the disaffected blue and white collar white males have chosen to bring down the temple upon all, themselves, the wealthy, minorities, women, and progressives alike. There is no cool, calculated rationality here. Rather, it is sheer madness.

http://profile.yahoo.com/2J4QOXSWWKADUGILQ4U2OH53SU speakthetruth

Don’t forget the Southern whites that left the Democratic Party when Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Act Bill in 1964. That sent white working class whites to the Republican party

http://profile.yahoo.com/WXAQEVOSVCMLVOA66YIGQ7LGGA manfred

I thought that a while back, though that gets them only deeper into the hole, because they need to come up with specifics when it comes to cuts, and the 250000 limit looks more solid than it was yesterday.

http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Sehler/100000396279499 John Sehler

Dominick: Don’t forget “Turtleman” MCConnell I wouldn’t trust him if the told me his mane was McConnell.

William Quigley

On close inspection, McConnell appears to have early onset alzheimers. Don’t look for him come forward with any thing that makes any sense.

Gladys5215G

They may be trying to get the President to come up with spending reductions cause A – they don’t want to and B – they don’t want to be blamed for them. They really just want to take care of the people that buy them. The Koch brothers, special interest, and all the rest.
CPANewYork

The spending reductions the Republican-controlled House want will emasculate Social Security and Medicare, so what do the Middle Class and the poor get from leaving it to the House?

If I were Obama, I’d wait until the Congress leaves for its holiday recess and then enact the proposals agreed to with Boehner via emergency decrees. Then let the Republicans reverse them, if they can.

http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

I believe Bush did something along those lines…and got away with it!

elw

I do not know too many who trust the Republicans, good thing for us they are doing such a find job of destroying themselves. I do not believe the President is going to blink, and I hope no tells them to shut-up, because it is just too much fun to watch them continue to destroy any credibility they have left.
http://profile.yahoo.com/ZJ5BBSQIGTUMERPZFALES6HQNY Bill

Well here is what has happened so far in the last couple of weeks:
1- McConnell pushes to have vote in the Senate for a bill he sponsored believing that Reid
would deny the vote, Reid allows the vote and McConnell is forced to fillibuster his own
bill. This has to be a 1st.
2- Boehner confidently predicts that his Plan B (b for boo it sucks) will be passed in the
House the next day. He doesn’t have the vote because he can’t get even enough
Republicans to back him. I guess he will go back to his family bar in Ohio and cry over
his beer.

We all know some kind of compromise will probably occur but I hope the President does not cave on Social Security or Medicare. If the Republicans want cuts let them look at the Defense budget (US defense budget is greater than the next 5 nations combined), there has to be a good amount of fat in it.

idamag

Bill, the defense budget does need liposuction.

http://profile.yahoo.com/ZJ5BBSQIGTUMERPZFALES6HQNY Bill

A very nice way to put it, let’s suck the fat of the Defense budget

TZToronto

They want the U.S. government to do what private industry tries to do with their workers–gut the pension fund. Wow! Look at that huge pile of money we agreed to give you when you retire . . . Sorry, folks, we’re going to grab it, and you can just fend for yourself, you old fogies.

idamag

TZT, I worked for many years with the promise of $XXX pension and healthcare for life. Five years after I retired, the took away my healthcare and no insurance company would insure me unless it was a supplemental to Medicare and now that is in jeopardy.

RobertCHastings

Dominick, please bear in mind that only two weeks ago Obama was willing to compromise by raising the eligibility age for Medicare. He has already backed off of that position, as he could very well do on several other issues as the deadline approaches. Compromise is not dead, but the Republicans have already let too many excellent opportunities pass, still living under the mistaken assumption that they won the November election.

http://www.facebook.com/tj.irish1 Tj Irish

I am soo PO’d about this. I have money inmy 401K in the markets. I was hoping close out a very good year with some reallocation before new year Now the markets are going to tank wiping out gains which I need in my 401K. Maybe the Wall Street overlords who fund the GOP can talk some sense into these people in the HOUSE.
http://profile.yahoo.com/RGOUPZ3JYNMPBVOHLZRCRVRD6Q ivory69690

Moreover, they claim to believe that the major tax hikes and spending cuts that will occur on January 1, if negotiations, fail, will be ruinous for the American and perhaps the world economy. (And never mind that this concern validates Keynesian economics, flatly contradicting their professed ideology.) Failure to achieve a deal may result in a renewed recession or worse//// the GOP dosent care about nothing . thy took the country’s credit rating down once before do you realy thy care about the world or anything else ? thy dont care about nothing out of the whole world thy only care about the greedy bastard and the 2 % rich
http://profile.yahoo.com/EOOP2CLTD4BKLDVZT6QW7PDOCI Robert M

If everything you hold dear is openly rejected by the people then what do republicans have to lose by openly showing their disregard for the lesser people in the nation? Their theory is that poor people don’t deserve tax breaks or incentives since they didn’t “earn” them and the ultra rich do since they consider robbery to be a legitimate earning.
http://profile.yahoo.com/C22AJV5GXSF4QE3YJY5IGBTULU TSB

Bye, Bye, Boehner……..Bye, Bye! McConnell, Cantor, too!
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OAT6GEIDI5HWY2H6KOUAJXKLY4 AliciaSolis

Repukes have no interest in the welfare of the middle class or working poor–never have–never will…Why would this type of behavior by these clowns be a surprise to anyone..? Their only interest is POWER.No one should be shocked…
nobsartist

Since it is evident what elected officials from the republiCON party are anti-American, perhaps the DCCC should spend a lot of money to change jerry mandering rules to allow for only 4 sides for each voting district AND to notify the public thru a direct mailing program
that these republiCONMs are traitors and need to be removed from office.
http://profiles.google.com/sphere1952 Jim Williams

The Mayans were right! Today is The End of the World — for the Republican Party.
prosenwald

Joe: that’s telling it like it really is.

Boehner is a straw man, pompous, self-satisfied and utterly without a shred of integrity. And the crazies within the GOP Congressional majority appear to be clueless when it comes to doing what they have been sent to Washington to do – govern for all the people.

I believe that the public ought to be very very angry and hold these guys responsible. But even more importantly, perhaps just as the Connecticut school tragedy focus attention once again on the need for a total rethink of our insane gun laws, the GOP’s totally unacceptable stand on the deficit issue out to scar the voters deeply enough to be sure that they don’t again make the mistake of sending these same or look alike ‘legislators’ to Washington again.

Peter

idamag

Prosen, I see Boehner as wanting to do what is right, but he hears the hammer pulled back by the tea party every time he says the wrong thing for them.

joceandre

I wonder when these rats are going to accept that they lost the election and it is time to move on. How do the republicans expect to win anything with childish behavior like that. Now everybody’s ‘eyes are wide open and can see who is clearly stopping progress. Calling John Boehner , Koch Brothers, Norquist, Murdoch , Adelson thugs is very mild because they are the very root of evil. We the people must start protesting against those tyrants because ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

CPANewYork

So, what do you propose to do about it?

idamag

You can e-mail the President and tell him not to cave or to compromise any further. He has backtracked his mile, now let those, who seem to forget the people have spoken, backtrack their mile.

bob lang

The travesty continues-the only positive i get from this whole mess is that moderates & progressives who have tried to give the GOP a chance can now see just how divisive & partisan they really are.Here in Mass a totally qualified senatorial candidate (who may get another shot if John Kerry becomes SecState & Gov. patrick doesnt appoint himself) named Scott Brown failed in his re-election bid solely on the the point that voters didnt want the GOP to have the majority vote in the Senate…..I love Dominicks points and baron,funny you should mention Newt G hes the shining example of a supposed GOP leader who turned out to be another hypocrite hell bent on destroying a perfectly solid dem prez…
http://www.facebook.com/dave.dell1 Dave Dell

Seeing that most of the people on capital hill are million aires, its no wonder why they want to balance the budget on the backs of the middle class, the poor and the elderly. I think they are stupid, for the fact if the middle class and the elderly go down their stock holding will be worthless and then they become the poor. It happened in the 1930s it will happen again if they don’t wake up and smell the coffee.
Eleanore Whitaker

We don’t have to wait until 2014. Why should taxpayers pay salaries of rich boi Republicans like Issa, Cantor, Ryan, Boehner and McConnell for another 2 years? Start with Boehner…his obstruction of the office of the presidency is enough to call for his impeachment.

Think about it. We elected this president. Boehner and the GOP are acting as if the election in November never happened. How isn’t that obstruction? How isn’t that a violation of our Constitutional rights to have the president we not only want in office but demanded via our votes?

The GOP isn’t the party of Eisenhower or Stevenson…it’s the party owned and operated by CEO Grover Norquist aided and abetted by the Koch and Adelson Billionaires to name just a few of these thugs.

When the GOP isn’t working for the greater good of ALL Americans and worse, tries to muddy the picture to look as if protecting the wealth of 1% and the Corporate Welfare state IS the greater good, it’s time to consider removing them from office…by demand of a majority of Americans too fed up with GOP vengeful, hateful, malicious games.

johninPCFL

The idea that the electorate gets what they want is not how a republic works. If you want that, you need democracy, not a democratic republic. In a republic, the electorate votes in those that are more able to take a long view and avoid being tugged by the smaller concerns, to make policy decisions less affected by emotion. The fact that 75% of Americans want “the other guys’ taxes” raised (certainly NOT their own, they pay too much already) (and, yes, I’m aware of Buffet and Gates) does not really make for good policy.

Furthermore, the idea that whatever the public wants, they get, has been the bane of policy progressives for decades. Remember, it was Truman alone who integrated the armed forces, against the howling of Congress and the public. LBJ and Congress passed civil rights legislation over the howling of the American public. Remember, they had riots when school bussing was imposed in Boston for school integration.

awakenaustin

Why doesn’t a democratic republic mean democratic rule through representatives? Isn’t a democratic republic different than a true republic? Doesn’t the concept of a republic included the idea of representation in the public’s interest? (Maybe even best interest?) Who gets to determine the public’s interest? Does the public get a voice in what is in their interest? To what extent do we give weight to the public’s conception of its interest?
I am pretty sure there was greater public sentiment in favor of civil rights legislation when it passed than against it. Many people may have not been happy later with many of its practical applications, but as a general sentiment it was well received except for portions of the nation. The legisaltion really only addressed de jure segregation and not de facto segregation as we came to learn and see in places like Boston. Laws sometimes move ahead of people’s behaviors.
There is always a tension between what leaders do and what people want. What people want is frequently a consequence of what their leaders say, propose and advocate and not something which emerges from the people independentaly. What leaders do is frequently a product of their own ideals and what what they preceive as doing them the most good in being able to continue to be leaders or fulfill their ambitions for themselves and as leaders. There is no clear unambiguous line through any of this.
When someone says the people want “x” as in the post and the article above they are not saying the representatives of the people must do exactly as the people want and that is the way republics are supposed to be. Do you believe it a bit disingenuous to try to shift the discussion to a philosophical debate about the proper role of representatives in a republic in a effort to mount a defense of Republican obstructionism as a function of their idealism about their role as representatives? I am thinking this idea of democratic representation has been less a bane for progressives than a crutch for conservatives and Republicans since they as much as anyone have cried about how they have to do what their constituency elected them to do.
The debate at hand is about how the financial burden of government will be distributed. Except in safe districts, a majority of the folks voting seemed to say “more fairly and more among those most able to pay.” It is not a debate about making or continuing to treat a large and reasonably easy to identify segment of the population as second class citizens and in some cases not as citizens at all deserving of the protections and rights of citizens. I am pretty certain how much I pay in tax is not on par with being lynched, or denied the right to vote, attend a decent school, live in a decent place, get a decent job, be paid equally for equal work, or have roughly equal access to society and its tangible and intangible benefits. I am also pretty scertain that opposing the proposals of the President regarding taxes is not an act of courage on par with Truman’s Executive Order integrating the U.S. Armed Forces.

johninPCFL

p1) representatives are elected to represent the people. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s run by polls of their wants and desires. The concept, again, is that the elected representatives take care of the big issues with large emotional attachment, whether their decisions are popular or not.
p2) laws moving ahead o the people’s behavoiur is exactly what’s being discussed here. When the economy recovers, will the people still be of the opinion that it’s desirable to tax the other guy? The considerations in Washington say the GOP believes that this is a passing fad.
p3) agreed.
p4) what I was attempting to do was to show that polls do not require action by our elected representatives precisely because we elect them to think for themselves and represent our longer term, less emotionally driven positions.
p5) agreed, and I also agree with the sentiment. Taxes are the “price of the ticket” to live in the US, and when our elected representatives behave contrary to our wishes, our response should be to vote them out. The fact that most are re-elected suggests that in spite of our desires, those of the majority of our compatriots in the various districts are happy with the representation that they receive.

Given that the wealthy saw their average compensaion go up 300% while the rest of us saw ours stagnate also suggests to me that their ticket may be more valuable to them, and thus cost more, than that for the rest of us. Arguing that the value of being a US citizen increases with increasing wealth is a different argument than “he made more, so can better afford a higher tax”.

awakenaustin

Regarding your last paragraph. It may be a different argument, although I am not certain of that. It may only be a different, if less sophisticated way of saying the same thing. It may be a crude short hand for the same thing. As a rule, those who have more get more. All things being equal and they never are, if you make more money you can afford a higher tax bill than a person making less money. It certainly is possible that neither of you can afford to pay the tax bill you have. I am more than a bit curious about who made the statement you quoted. I could not find it in the article or the post you initially wrote in reply to and it certainly wasn’t anything I said. I would say this, in merely practical terms, if the community needs a new bridge over troubled waters, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to ask those who cannot afford to pay for it to pay for it.
Re: p4. I think you are wrong that people elect their representatives to think for themselves and represent our long term less emotionally driven best interests. (I threw the “best” in there.) I am aware that is Edmund Burke’s position of how we should elect our representatives and how they should respond, but that is not how most people think. They elect or vote for a bunch of reasons, but I think most would say they elect the man/woman to follow through on what he/she said he/she would do and not to go all independent on them. Courageous, independent voting may be the right thing at different times, but it usually only succeeds at getting you unelected. It certainly is possible to be courageous and independent when no one is looking. To say because of the obscurity of much of what our reps do, they exercise great independence is not the same as saying the people expect them to be independent. The simple truth is they are answering to someone. From district to district and situation to situation the only question is who in any particular instance are they answering to. Again, in this particular case when it is said the people voted for taxes on “x” and that is what they need to do, it is a short hand for saying the guy who got elected said he was for this and we voted for him and he should do what he said he would do. In this instance they are also saying , correctly or incorrectly, the others should go along with him because he won the big deal on that basis. I am pretty certain almost no one said to anyone who was elected, you go ahead and do what you think is best in your own mind regardless of what we think.
Is PCFL Panama City, Florida? I knew a fellow from there, when we were Air Force brats in Japan. J
johninPCFL

Affordability has little correlation to fairness. It’s not fair for a wealthy person to pay more in taxes than a poor person simply because he can afford it. A more rational argument is that his wealth arises because of the economic system present in the US, and being able to operate in that economic system is worth more to him than to the poorer person.

I agree that Burke’s reasoning is not followed by most folks. However, the are GOP representatives who did not run for elections bound by declarations that they didn’t make or agree with? Are those who represent areas not carried by the president bound by the president’s statements?

PCFL is Pinellas County, FL. I have a good friend who lives in Panama City, though…

http://twitter.com/RevJim52 Rev James Curci

Absolutely correct Boo-Hoo Boehner is the worst Speaker of the House ever, and can’t control his Republican caucus in Congress. Priceless.
Eleanore Whitaker

If the only work Republicans know how to do is create slush funds from our tax dollars by taking those taxes we pay for SS, Medicare and Medicaid and using them to build more cash for tax cuts for the wealthy, maybe they don’t need their jobs anymore?
docb

Weasel cantor, lyin ryan, boneher could not deliver the ignorant of the rabid right that they embraced in 2010 for the votes and seats, now they suffer the consequences..but the Worst is that the Nation suffers from their idiocy and self-deluded ideological ignorance!

There was a SPECTACLE on full display on JSCAB this morning that points frighteningly to the obdurate divorced from reality of the extreme bagger ignorance that boneher must deal with ..From the newbie ignorant from Kansas came the self deluded lies of the insane of the repub baggers for all to see!

Be afraid and fight back…. these vermin must be removed quickly and a return to sanity and governance for the Nation not the stupid!

Call for the President to NOT BACK DOWN and continue to work for the Nation not the wealthy of the baggers and the ignorant untrained of the right! The repubs embraced the devil with these people and are responsible for the damage that has caused!

The World markets priced in a bump over the cliff/curb that repubs caused ..NOT THE IDIOCY and Intractability of the repub extreme newbie right wing!

idamag

docb, e-mail the president.

docb

Have been in regular touch since the first election….some of the thoughts are the result Op- research I have done over the campaigns! Some directly out of their collaborative efforts!

Brownmm3

The GOP is incredible. Despite a major loss -devastating if measured against their Fox News/Rove driven expectations- the GOP apparently still feels that it lost because of a bad nomination process and a nitwit nominee. As best as I can determine, it intends to throw a few bones out for immigrants, women and minorities (after all, they do still need servants and gardeners) and take over again by 2016.

Boehner needs to understand 1) they lost big and 2) they lost on the very issues he was trying to force on President Obama. Americans overwhelmingly feel that the rich are not close to paying their fair share (just look at the concentration of wealth over the last decade), that entitlement/safety net must be retained, with adjustments, and that Obamacare is gaining support. Please remember which party creates the most jobs and left the last Republican president a surplus to squander.

To survive, we need a sensible centrist party, we need that interaction and confrontation and balance. To obtain that, we must have responsible and respectful discourse at the ground root level in town halls, civic associations and schools. This will not always work, but it is more difficult of call your neighbor what are esteemed leaders called each other. To get this, gerrymandering has to go.

We need this centrist party to offset the fuzzy-headed spend-happy liberals (proud to be one). It could be the GOP joining the 21st century, or it could be a new party (GORP or the Grand Old Responsible Party). Whatever emerges will have to deal with the Tea Baggers, the GOP is responsible for it as the providers of the petri dish that allowed a fringe group to flourish.

Finally, the GOP must stop accusing Obama of not participing: it is the party that 20 years ago signed a no-tax pledge, reiterated at the first debate by all ten of their finest swearing fealty to the concept. It is also the party that stated -mostly by the loonies- that it will oppose anything Obama wants. GOP gambled and lost big. Cope, come back strong.
http://www.facebook.com/dave.dell1 Dave Dell

The bad part of that is , what happened in 2011 when they wouldn’t pass the debt celing. Our credit rating went down and the dollar lost value. The same thing is happening now . The stock market is taking a hit becsause of the uncertanty of what they are going to do. The repubican party has to put RACE ASIDE AND DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE COUNTY
jnsgraphic

Lets all go over the cliff together, the Bush taxs cuts end either way. Boehner will save face protecting the rich with an increase of taxes to everyone, claiming he put up a good fight; and the President will then propose tax cuts for everyone making under $250,000 that the GOP and DEMS will both agree on. This will also give more time to see where cuts can be made in ‘entitlement programs’ without sacrificing Social Security or Medicare. It’s going to get worse before it gets better, but only for a short time. Boehner pulled the bill knowing he would not get enough votes for the bill to pass with some of his own party against it, now hes going to hang himself, the American people will hang the remaining GOP House in 2014; and the Grand Obstructionist Party will have lost its power with no chance in 2016!

jstsyn

Why should America wait until 2014? So they can do more harm? We need to be rid of them as soon as possible. Replace them with some level headed republicans until the next election.

CPANewYork

Care to tell us how you’re going to do that, legally?

badpoppop

The Talleban of American Politics, aka Republiocans and Tea Party. They are going to cause the slow, but steady economic recovery we are experiencing to become a very, very bad recession. Is there no one in that Party that has the backbone and common sense to stand up and do what’s right? Norquist and Bozzell should be tarred and feathered and run out of America on a rail. And Sen. John Boner has lost all real control of the unruly bunch of Un-American and simply crazy bunch. Damn it, stand up America and demand these people be removed!!!!!!!!!

CPANewYork

To remove them, we need to organize recall votes in each of the miscreants’ constituencies.

awakenaustin

I am unaware of any recall provisions in any of the States which cover U.S. Senators or members of the U.S. House of Representatives. But you learn something new every day. I am pretty certain a majority of States don’t have any recall provisions at all.

sunmusing

It is past time to remove the republicans from office…It is in the State Houses that the real battles are going to be fought…the Kochs will not stop, will not let up, nor will they win…just look at what the media ignores…there we will find the truth and evidence of the real “enemies of our country”…
http://profile.yahoo.com/KWOLFZNM7JFQ74SN4RR5DXPRFQ Chris

And we elected them.

CPANewYork

Who’s “we”? No, not me. I didn’t vote for any of those clowns.

idamag

CPA, me neither, but I do live in the backwoods where they will get voted in.

2angie26

John Boehmer and Mitch McConnell should be impeached for their constant obstruction of President Obama’ s trying to get the Country back on its feet. They did not and they kept their Party from voting for jobs that were so desperaately needed in the Country. The obstructed President Obama at every step of the way, just because their out prinicples – so keep their
tax cuts, loopholes, and every decietful way of cheating the American people. No, they
should not be part of our governing body. They should also give the Country back the wages
they received to be used to decrease our National Debt which they generously helped to build up by their reckless spending in the Bush administration.
2angie26

Mitch McConnell and John Boehner should be impeached because they obstructed every single policy and whatever President Obama wanted to do to make him a one term president which
they failed to do because the American people (who were so insulted with the 47% remark) knew
that President Obama worked for them. He bore their insults, theri disrespect, and their
general obsession with their principles; NEVER NEVER RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH AND
TO MAKE MATTERS WORST TO SIGN A PLEDGE WITH A RANDOM CITIZEN SUCH AS
GROVER NORQUIST WHO THINKS HE IS OUR DICTATOR AND KEEPS THE CONSERVATIVES FOLLOWING HIM LIKE ROBOTS. Their wages from 2009 to the present
should be used to pay down the National Debt. The raised the Debt ceiling 7 times in the
Bush administration with their reckless spending and now want the Middle Class to pay for it.
These people also created the grass roots Tea Party which is not a friend of the Middle Class and the Poor.

angelina DeMuro
jstsyn

Couldn’t have said it better “remove these republicans from power” These so called public servants took an oath to the United States of America. Any thing else, and especially signing a pledge to some civilian that is against America’s best interest, is treason. Treat them accordingly.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EQ5LTH2XTZCVP7G4FGK6Z2YTJE ignore the facts

The repugs can’t accept that they lost i November, and this is their attempt to ruin Obama’s presidency. They care nothing about the American people, only the donors who line THEIR pockets. The Koch brothers are a prime example of what’s wrong with America. Hideous, hateful people who want EVERYTHING, and to hell with citizens who WORK.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Cory-James-Hinman/1307089568 Cory James Hinman

The president must be held accountable as well. The other day on his radio program I heard Thom Hartmann state that Obama implicitly and inexplicably cedes too much to the Republicans in that he too readily accepts their terms for negotiation; i.e., “how little can we tax the wealthy, and what’s the largest cut we can make to benefits working-families depend on?”

idamag

Cory, I agree that he should stop conceding. He must not give the store away.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EQ5LTH2XTZCVP7G4FGK6Z2YTJE ignore the facts

On another note, more garbage about Petraeus. He is a tool of the repugnican parry and teh folks who want war no matter what. He was in bed with the Romney camp and playing games with his job. So glad he’s gone. Just another example of someone who thinks he has the RIGHT to wage war and not answer to oour Commander in Chief. Good riddance.

idamag

ignore, A general, in war, gets a big bonus. He gets rich during conflict. I wonder if the general is a good person to ask about the need to be in war.

latebloomingrandma

I saw a Republican Congressman this morning on TV (can’t remember his name)who PROUDLY proclaimed their adherence to the their “principles.” Translation—obstruction and total lack of of what the word compromise means. The republican party is solely responsible for the rise of these extremists and teaparty types. By embracing them and putting them into office, they now have to deal with with these nut cases gumming up our democracy. This congressman stated that the Speaker’s removing them from committee’s leadership positions will not silence them. Boehner is now in a pickle. As my husband says, the Republicans can now choke on their own vomit. Ye reap what ye sow.

idamag

Lateblooming, there are anti-trust laws in place that protects the small businessman and the farmer from vulture capitalism. Thank you Newt, for that phrase, it is so descriptive. Those laws have not been enforced for years. We seen Walmart enter a community and strategically place their stores where they could force other business out. Our community welcomed this big monster by giving them a tax break on property and opening roads to thier business. When the destroyed all the local businesses around them, they moved their stores to other neighborhoods. We have seen corporate farms run the family farms out. They do this with the help of the government and by violating trade laws.

charleo1

It seems more likely than ever the deadline for preventing some of the damage the economy will
suffer, is going to be missed. But, with the agenda of the 2010 T-Party crowd, and their
willingness to plow ahead, Country be damned, it’s been a foregone conclusion from the start.
The new Congress will have fewer of the hard right, ideologues. But too many to save the
thousands of jobs that will be lost, or not created due to their actions. Actually, they could not
care less about what the American public wants. After all, they believe half of us are just voting
ourselves more government largess. So, they look at this sequester business as small potatoes
indeed, compared to the next debt ceiling authorization in Feb. or March, when they intend to
inflect some lasting damage to the Country. I truly do not believe the term economic terrorists
is too strong of a description.
nagena

This is a wonderful opportunity for these partisan, brainless and non-nationalistic GOP riffraff to be shown up to the Voters. The result will be longstanding and hopefully keep them out of power for a generation and more. Too bad if it decimates the GOP beyond recognition. President Obama foresaw this and promised to go direct to the electorate, thus exposing them mercilessly. Bring it on; can’t wait! nagena
William Quigley

The only hope going forward, is to cobble together the democratic representatives and moderate republicans to get a bill out of the House of Representatives. It is on John Boehner shoulders as speaker of the House to forge a coalltion of agreeable represenatives from both parties. John Boehner is dead meat if he doen’t find a solution.
jnsgraphic

Level headed Republicans is probably just as contradictory as Jumbo Shrimp LOL. Just what we need, more Republicans = more failed leadership. You’ll only have another set of ‘Puppets’ at the ends of the strings of Greedy Corporate America, pulling someone else’s strings… party first, people last, nothing is more important than money; and the only real people, are corporations. I doubt they’ll be replaced by more Republicans, at least let’s HOPE not!
pqp1

I think we citizens of this great nation should file a civil/criminal suite against the republican party for crimes against humanity, for dileberatly harming it’s own citizens, because of their own personal agenda. Futher more I think the house speaker should be removed from his office and position and be held responsible by being futher banned from any form of public service. Take away his pension,his right to vote & make that sorry SOB get a job he’s qualified to do like cleaning porta potties. You mister house speaker do not have the same power, priviledge or know how as our great president has & you should resign immediately
http://profile.yahoo.com/D24FMB4RRZBOQRAFVCRYJZSF3E Shelley

Amen. REMOVE THEM!
http://profile.yahoo.com/D24FMB4RRZBOQRAFVCRYJZSF3E Shelley

I’d rather go off the cliff! Let those cuts expire and let’s start over – WITHOUT hurting social security!
Steve Miller

The Koch brothers reign of contempt and disregard for the 98 % continues unabated. Until voters wake up and elect Representatives with a spine and a brain , we will be stuck with the Tea party zombies and errand boys like Cantor and Boehner.
lighthousejustice

So long as the Republican’s answer only to their high-end finacial supporters or their odd assortment of idealogical and religious extremism, they will not even see the forest for the trees or the People for the Nation.
alboy5

Because the Republican traitors want to destroy our government, Obama should be a man
and institute his budget without the Republican anarchists who should be charged with treason.

Sand_Cat

No president can “be a man and institute his budget” without agreement from Congress, and let’s hope none ever can.

Much as I despise the Republicans, all presidents need something to restrain them, and especially Republican presidents.

alboy5

Lets have a national referendum on the internet and allow a public vote on the budget.

idamag

alboy, now that is a great idea if your vote isn’t supressed.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CXAL5B72JQ7KRNOK5YT7WRSF4M norman

Although I will agree that the Republicans have some very FINE idea’s, for American prosperity, it is the “implementation” of their plans, which, continually, falls through.

Since the 1980′s, the Republicans have told the un-employed: “IF you want jobs to return to America, FIRST, you MUST go out, and spend,spend, spend!” But the party never tells the un-employed WHERE to find the money to spend.

The Republicans say that tax-cuts, and cuts, in social services, are the only way to save America, from FINANCIAL “ruin”.

Tell that to the people of Newton, Aurora, and other places, where budget cuts have lead to these disasters.

Personal Responsibility is fine, but, before a person can be “responsible”, they MUST be provided with the TOOLS, with which to be responsible.

I just wish the Republicans could understand these concepts.
alboy5

Lets find out who these wingnuts are and have their pictures posted on the internet and have them deported.

idamag

Alboy, since these wingnuts were born in this country, where would you deport them to? And, who would want them?

12161926

THE GRAND OLD PARTY (GOP) GOUGE THE OLD AND THE POOR IS WHAT IT STANDS FOR. I THINK A RECALL WOOD BE BETTER THAN WAITING FOR 2014
http://profile.yahoo.com/VBTX3DCGNX6GI2AQBJPBKIXPFY Raju

Mr. President – please, do not make the mistake of going down into the annals of American history as the “only nigger with no backbone” ever!
http://profile.yahoo.com/JWPCDWWOQJAS5UTZVN5CE3MZLU PamelaT

The country will go back into a recession because of the Republicans and yes they need to be removed from office they are incompentent and clearly not listening to the American. These Republicans do not work for the American People they work for the Tea Party and Grover Norquist.
http://profile.yahoo.com/WDL6W6KLQQP5PAEB7EU66U6ZWM Michael

The Republican party has just proved it is now irrelevant, out of touch and archaic, to say the least. It has become an impotent shadow of it’s past. Were you fools not listening to the American voters in November? They overwhelmingly approved of the Presidents plan and they re-elected him to do it. Now you plant your feet in the sand? Your party is dying an agonizing death. Compromise now or be de-elected right out of existence.

Sand_Cat

Unfortunately, they can still do a lot of damage; they may be out of touch and archaic, to put it mildly, but they are far from irrelevant.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OLT3BBICDAFJXQAHHKXXLJUCH4 Stella53

Where have you been the last four years! They proved that four years ago!

http://www.facebook.com/tom.gagie Tom Gagie

I’m totally ashamed of being a GOP member after this latest so called leadership idea.
The grand ole party is no more thanks to the likes of Boehner who only wants to be speaker at any cost,Ryan &Cantor that are full blown jerks at best.
Till these jerks are removed the party will be a complete mess.
I am changing to being a Independent member as I can’t stand anymore of this going on.
They won’t talk about gun laws till after the NRA speaks on friday.
This tells me they are OWNED LOCK STOCK &BARREL by the NRA MONEY.
Thanks but no thanks.

ObozoMustGo

Tom, you are full of sheet! Pretending to be something you are not just to try to make a point in a comment blog is big time amature. I can spot a fraud like you a mile away.

By the way, dope, the NRA is nothing more than a voice for 10s of millions of private citizens who donate their money and who want their 2nd Amendment rights protected from liberty hating leftist freaks and tyrants like you! So….. STFU!!!

Merry Christmas!

“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” – Thomas Jefferson

Sand_Cat

You have a Merry Christmas, too.

The rest of your comment is no doubt the usual ignorant, bigoted, and downright insane crap you usually produce!

ObozoMustGo

Merry Christmas, Cat!

“It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.” – Ronald Reagan
idamag

Sand, this racist is “he who knows not and knows not he knows not.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OLT3BBICDAFJXQAHHKXXLJUCH4 Stella53

Yet you try to make your ignorant, bigoted points 24/7! Oh, but I forgot. Only neo-cons like you get to exercise freedom of speech. The rest of us are supposed to shut up. You’re going to have to deal with change whether you agree with it or not. The rich will be paying more in taxes and assault weapons will be banned eventually.

ObozoMustGo

Stella, you’re a moron. Plain and simple. Now go back to your crack pipe.

Merry Christmas, and remain oblivious!

“The difference between being stupid and being a fool: A stupid person at least has an idea about their own inadequacies. The fool is oblivious to them, and is more inclined to believe their own fantasies and lies as truth.” – ObozoMustGo

howa4x

Boz you know that most reasonable people have no problem with the 2nd amendment rights given and don’t care if someone owns a hand gun or shotgun or rifle. The problem that people are concerned about is military style weapons, large capacity magzines, and loop holes that allow secondary sales that go unrecorded. Under the current weak law, there is no background checks at gun shows, and a person can within a 24 hr perion could buy 20 guns legally whether he is sane or not.. Since there is no oversight he could turn around and sell those guns to criminal elements, so in effect you are arming the criminals along with law abiding citizens. This makes the argument that we need guns to protect ourselves against criminal that we in effect are arming, upsurd. The only reason that people don’t want their identies known is because they suffer from Government paranoia. Look you can’t sell a used care with out a recorded bill of sale, and everyone seems comfortable with that. So why should you be able to sell a gun which is more lethal without one?Having a record of your purchase does nothing to void your right to own a gun, and doesn’t violate the 2nd amendment. Plus now there are more deaths from gun violence, 34,00/yr than motor vehicles
Secondly this is the only industry in America that is not held acountable for it’s actions. If you take a drug that harms you physically you have legal recourse, and the government has the ability to get that dangerous drug off the streets, to protect people. Here we have a situation where a citizen, can through a loophole, sell a gun to a criminal or a mentally unstable person, and if that person commits a crime or kills someone, the seller is not held accountable. Same with the manufaturers, they have immunity by law of congress. The only industry that has this protection. NO one wants to restrict reasonable gun ownership, but soon the only ones that will be better armed than some private citizens will be the army, and that is a sad situation for this country.I don’t think anyone should be proud of that.

Have a happy holiday

ObozoMustGo

Howie, I hope you are well. A couple of quick points then I’m out for a few days.

1) Read my more recent post on here regarding the long slow move toward gun control in England. Don’t say it cant happen here.

2) In PA and some other states, they do have laws that make anyone buying a gun to give to someone else liable. They’re called “gun walking” laws. You are wrong.

3) The gun industry and the pharmas are 2 totally different industries. Besides, if you take a drug not prescribed to you, like one you take from a friend’s medicine cabinet, and you are harmed or killed, the pharma company is NOT liable in any way. Guns are inanimate objects and do not kill people. People kill people. With guns. With cars. With knives. With bombs. With airplanes. With bricks. With bats. With crowbars. With rope. With chemicals. With subway trains. With their hands. With a million different things. You cannot outlaw all of them. You cannot control all of them. I am not willing to give up ANY of my liberties so you guys on the left can say “you did something” when the result of what you do are nothing.

4) You are dead wrong about the number of gun deaths in America versus car deaths. Someone is feeding you garbage howie. Look at the graphic I posted. It is FBI stats. You might need to click on original, then copy and paste to a Word docy so you can stretch it to make it larger. It’s kind of small. Or increase the viewing percentage in your browser.

5) The vast majority of gun violence is perpetrated with handguns, not semi-automatic rifles. Less than 3% are from semi-automatic rifles.

Merry Christmas, Howie!

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Ben Franklin

idamag

Tom the grand old party has been hijacked by the anti-government whackos. Let us hope it rises again.

a_fla_voter

Yes boehner does need to be removed from the house as well as the others that side with boehner they have no respect for the middle class if they had there way the middle class would be reduced to that of peasants of the dark age it took a long time to get out of it lets not go backwards.
ObozoMustGo

Thank the Good Lord for Republicans that stand on their principles. I will agree with most of you leftist freaks on this point, however, and that is that Boner is an incompetent and needs to be voted out of the Speakership this January.

And raising tax rates will do nothing for our economy, nor will it do anything to reduce the debt. Spending is the problem in Washington, DC, not revenues, you morons.

Merry Christmas!

“The basic idea behind the relationship between tax rates and tax revenues is that changes in tax rates have two effects on revenues: the arithmetic effect and the economic effect. The arithmetic effect is simply that if tax rates are lowered, tax revenues (per dollar of tax base) will be lowered by the amount of the decrease in the rate. The reverse is true for an increase in tax rates. The economic effect, however, recognizes the positive impact that lower tax rates have on work, output, and employment–and thereby the tax base–by providing incentives to increase these activities. Raising tax rates has the opposite economic effect by penalizing participation in the taxed activities. The arithmetic effect always works in the opposite direction from the economic effect. Therefore, when the economic and the arithmetic effects of tax-rate changes are combined, the consequences of the change in tax rates on total tax revenues are no longer quite so obvious.” — Arthur Laffer explains the concept underlying the Laffer Curve

awakenaustin

The Laffer Curve is in fact a “Laugher.” There is absolutely no evidence of its validity. As with religion, it is a matter of faith and not fact. Republicans and Profiles in Courage and Voting on Principle. I was going to read it when it appeared on the Best Sellers Top Ten List, but couldn’t find it and so I decided to wait on the movie.

Every so often I begin to think Republican IQs might be creeping up, then I read one of your posts and I realize it was just a dream.

I love this country!D There is lots of room for intelligent, kind, thoughtful and generous people and there is room for you too!

ESAD.

ObozoMustGo

it’s coma boy! How are you coma boy?

Answer this question: If tax rates were 100%, what would be the revenues to the government?

Awaiting your enlightened response I remain…..

Merry Christmas!

“There is all the difference in the world, however, between two kinds of assistance through government that seem superficially similar: first, 90 percent of us agreeing to impose taxes on ourselves in order to help the bottom 10 percent, and second, 80 percent voting to impose taxes on the top 10 percent to help the bottom 10 percent — William Graham Sumner’s famous example of B and C decided what D shall do for A. The first may be wise or unwise, an effective or ineffective way to help the disadvantaged — but it is consistent with belief in both equality of opportunity and liberty. The second seeks equality of outcome and is entirely antithetical to liberty.” – Milton Friedman

awakenaustin

It is a stupid question. If the world ends on Saturday what are your plans for Sunday? Because you and Mr. Laffer have a trick question doesn’t make it relevant or meaningful. If you could travel the speed of light where would you be tomorrow? When you can travel the speed of light and when tax rates are 100%, I will be happy to answer your stupid question.

ESAD. Happy New Year.

ObozoMustGo

coma boy… you refuse to answer the question because you will end up proving yourself wrong. The question is not stupid, you are!

If tax rates are 100%, revenues will be at or near zero because no one will work for nothing. That’s called slavery, by the way. If tax rates are 0%, revenues will be zero. So, there is a point on that continuum between 0% and 100% where tax rates are optimal for both economic activity and revenues to the government. This is exactly what the Laffer curve is about. Why am I not surprised that a committed leftist freak and struggling fool like you did not know this?

Merry Christmas!

“There is all the difference in the world, however, between two kinds of assistance through government that seem superficially similar: first, 90 percent of us agreeing to impose taxes on ourselves in order to help the bottom 10 percent, and second, 80 percent voting to impose taxes on the top 10 percent to help the bottom 10 percent — William Graham Sumner’s famous example of B and C decided what D shall do for A. The first may be wise or unwise, an effective or ineffective way to help the disadvantaged — but it is consistent with belief in both equality of opportunity and liberty. The second seeks equality of outcome and is entirely antithetical to liberty.” – Milton Friedman

“If you run around a tree at 185,999 miles per hour, you have a very good chance of effing yourself. Or, you can be an Obozo suppporter. Either way, you accomplish the same effect.” — unknown
awakenaustin

It is a stupid question, because the question’s answer is obvious and it launches one into an invalid line of mathematical/statistical thinking which is leads to an illogical conclusion. It is meaningless mental masturbation. It has never worked. It will never work. Belief in it is an article of faith. It is completely unsupported by any scholarly economic studies. There is no practical real world example which supports it. Even your boy Milton would have laughed at it. It is smoke and mirrors. Actually that isn’t true, smoke and mirrors have more substance.

ESAD
ObozoMustGo

coma boy…. I knew you wouldn’t understand. It’s common sense and self explanatory to all but fools like you.

Merry Christmas!

“Nobody spends somebody else’s money as carefully as he spends his own. Nobody uses somebody else’s resources as carefully as he uses his own. So if you want efficiency and effectiveness, if you want knowledge to be properly utilized, you have to do it through the means of private property.” – Milton Friedman
awakenaustin

Fools like me and every well known economist in the nation.
ObozoMustGo

coma boy…. another leftist freak tactict is to claim that everyone agrees with them when you really mean that every leftist freak named Paul Krugman agrees with you. It is a falsehood to say that everyone agrees.The fact is that the Laffer Curve is an excellent way of expressing the simple fact that taxation does have an optimal rate. Your refusal to answer the question on the effects of taxes at both extremes of 0% or 100% makes my point. Instead, you ridicule and make false claims about everyone agreeing with you. I’m used to your brand of ignorance combined with arrogance to cover up your complete lack of substance.

Merry Christmas, coma boy!

“Societies biggest failure is it has allowed authority to be its truth; and prevented truth from being its authority.” — Mobius Nemesis
awakenaustin

You have all those economists in support start naming them.

montanabill

Major contempt is believing that simply taxing a few wealthy people will solve one single fiscal problem this country has. Demanding ‘a fair share’ when the numbers clearly show that those people already pay more than a fair share compared to the other 99% is contemptuous. It is contempt for the ignorant majority that think that is a plan. We have to borrow 46 cents of every dollar this country spends. Raising the taxes on a few of the wealthy may make you feel better for socking it to them, but we will still be borrowing 45 cents for every dollar spent. That is a debt that will come due on your children and grandchildren. Payback for them will not be very pleasant. Even raising taxes on everyone (pre-Bush) won’t solve the problem. Only a strong economy and cost cutting can make a dent.
Sand_Cat

Let us all hope that the President was playing politics and really doesn’t want a deal incorporating all the stuff he claimed to be ready to give away. That would make him look reasonable and the Repugs even more unreasonable, and is fine, so long as he now withdraws those offers because even giving away the store on Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security wasn’t enough to placate them.

Unfortunately, I’m afraid he’s sincere, and whatever comes through in the end WILL include some or all of those giveaways.
Terrence Bergum

Think back to what the tax rates were 12 years ago under President Bill Clinton; the rich were getting richer, Americans were working, and we had a surplus budget… then 8 years of record low tax rates and unfunded wars leading to increasing annual budget deficits, an economic crash and high unemployment under President George Bush… it has taken 4 years to turn the economy around and is now showing sustained growth… there needs to been budget cuts and we can all live with tax rates existing under President Bill Clinton’s terms in office. Why have Republicans such a short memory of our history??
elw

Why is anyone surprised at this? It has become typical Republican behavior. They are not going to suddenly turn nice, understanding, or intelligent. Just not going to happen! They are owned by the crazy right, their own rigid ideology and that is never going to change. The Republicans are doing a very fine job of destroying their own credibility. Let’s help them finish the job in the 2014 election by building strong local support for progressive and moderate candidates by not forgetting that you cannot change the strips on the Republican right wing crazies.
Landsende

Maybe Boehner should have tried crying which he does at the drop of a hat and his fellow rethuglicans would have felt sorry for him and passed his Plan B. Oh wait, the rethuglicans have no compassion for anyone but the rich 2% and care nothing for other 98% as evidenced by every proposal they have come up with.
MarkInOhio

“This country’s problems cannot be addressed, let alone solved, until they remove these republicans from power.”

Amen, brother.

mavilasr

I agree with your assumption. These Republicans are extremists. They were not voted for them to sit down and maintain a far below basic performance. They should all be recalled and voted out of office. I do not see them as productive. I see them as totally destructive to the entire nation. It is shameful to have such un-americans as representatives. Whom are they representing? They seem to be representing and glorifying the super rich with the silly excuse that they don’t want to raise taxes when that is exactly what the “fiscal cliff” created by CONGRESS UNDER THE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP, will in fact do!!!!!!! The public do not need to be placed in this position of uncertainty!!!!!!! Yes, these REPUBLICANS DO NOT CARE ABOUT THOSE THEY ARE ELECTED TO SERVE. THEY DO NOT READ THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY!!!!! THEY ARE A DISGRACE TO SOCIETY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sunbum4

The Republican party schould be outlawed and the Tea party sent to Cuba.

ObozoMustGo

Yeah, right on!!!! Why send them away though? We can just build a bunch of really big ovens and send them in to them to “warm up”, right? Or, maybe we can round them all up and send them to re-education camps so they can think like good little leftist drones like you. That’s a good idea too, isnt it? Yeah, right. Sure, sure.

There’s a reason that 100 million people were murdered in the last century at the hands of leftist tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. etc. You think like they did, you dope!!

Merry Christmas!

“The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency…Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.” – Czech Republic newspaper Prager Zeitung

oldtack

At this stage and after the posturing BS of Boehner and Cantor this morning maybe the President should let the deadline elapse and go over this fictitious cliff.

Go back to the same tax rate we had in 2001.

Immediately begin restructuring and correcting the major problems. One problem that needs immediate attention is our Tax structure. If we had a fair and solid Tax system we could enjoy the luxury of a lower tax rate for everyone and still have sufficient revenue to operate the government.

I have several different income sources and I use a CPA Firm to handle my taxes. I am always “amazed” at how many loopholes exist that enable me to actually pay less taxes than my “neighbor” even though he has about the same gross income simply because by law I can take more deductions due to diversity.

I am by no means wealthy and if there are loopholes at my level I can only imagine how many loopholes exist for the very wealthy. It’s all in the laws and what I do and the wealthy do to avoid taxes is legal but it certainly skews the Tax system where equating the income the more affluent citizens pay less than the average hourly rate working person.

There are multiple entitlement programs and Government Agencies that can be reduced or cut but it cannot be done in a reckless irrational manner. Before making cuts we need to level the playing field on taxes and we need to make a careful study of what entitlement programs and budgets can be cut without jeopardizing essential services.

This bickering between the Parties must stop.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OLT3BBICDAFJXQAHHKXXLJUCH4 Stella53

CNN allowing the “N” word to be used on this form without moderation? Yet you “moderate” my comments at the drop of a dime!
http://profile.yahoo.com/ZIAVD6YO6OK45OUABSPVN74DM4 FRED

We should cut costs by sueing the republicans for not doing their jobs. And make it retro-active for the past 4 years.

idamag

fred, what if we start paying them by the piece. That means for action they get paid. For inaction, they do not.

http://profile.yahoo.com/CW65XXSV7JU3DG4S3WBB6AWH2Y David

I do believe his plan B would have made the Democrats come to the table but spending cuts to Social Security should not be on the table. Some Americans rely solely on SS benefits and the SS fund is in no way costing the American people anything. It has enough money to be self sustaining. What we need to do is cut unnecessary spending in the military. Understand that we don’t need to be in every place and everywhere policing the world. That alone will save billions. In addition, tax cuts for education should be at the forefront for Americans making less than 250,000. That way we can initiate and education boom here in the US. Making more people prepared for the new jobs of the future
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SMHRBC4TARCXURHY4FANDZP2YQ Arthur Northrop

we Tea Party types, instead of paying more taxes, destroyed all the tea.
Joe Narusiewicz

It’s the goofy tea party and the new obstructionist confederacy of the out of touch and step far loony right. They will pay heavily at the poles for this by the people of the USA. Now they are splitting their own party and look like total backwoods idiots.

idamag

Joe, I love it. Apt description – backwoods idiots.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SMHRBC4TARCXURHY4FANDZP2YQ Arthur Northrop

After the election disaster per Karl Rove’s efforts, they still give him way to much attention and undeserved respect. No wonder the GOP is a party in ruin and sinking faster than ever before believed possible.
http://www.facebook.com/eagle.lefebre Eagle Lefebre

The republicans are going to sacrifice their constituents and us (their assets) the American people who get up, go to work every day for less gov’t crumbs with ‘high dollar’ taxes go over the cliff.!!! People are struggling NOW! I may not like Obama or they (republicans) Obama is using common sense to help the population that can’t help themselves. i.e. the disabled, senior citizens, single parents/families, veterans and school lunch programs for our children. Each and every working family household has tightened their financial belts so tight that another “Tax” on us will definitely burst the “Family Unit” and create more Post-tramatic stress disorder throughout our population and grass-root communities. If, I was the president, I’d tell the American people and Boehner ” It’s obvious that the republicans you represent won’t/don’t want to listen or understand the “logic” or “common sense” of our national financial issue since the Bush Administration, therefore, as the re-elected President I’m circumventing all “talks between us” and will issue by the power of the President of the United States an Executive Order to implement the Democratic proposal to prevent another hard recession on the American people.”
biadarola1

Boehner must really believe that he is the President and not Obama. We must get these Republicans out of office since they do more harm than good for the people of this nation.

Mr. Boehner if you are really sincere and want to raise money then take a pay reduction as well as reduction of your health benefits instead of reducing SS and Medicare. Also it is time you and all politicians went on SS and Medicare and no longer continue to receive your income and benefits once you are all out of office. The people did not vote for that you did that for yourselves. No one I know continues to receive their pay and health benefits once we retire so why should you?
ridemybroom

you cant trust any of these people and dont forget to throw mitch mcconell in there as well….they are a racist bunch of old men with nothing else to do but aggravate the hell out of the demoscrats…they are seething plotting pieces of crap that needs to be disposed of….the sooner the better in this case…it would not surprise me that and( God forbid)that someone shud walk in that building and just open fire with an ak 47 or an ar15…these people really need to stop playing with people’s heads and get busy with what is at hand before its is too late….after what happened in conn nothing shud surprise any of us…this country is going backwards and going back into the third world syndrome…and these tea partiers and these other moderate reps are just making things more difficult…and people are not going to take it any longer…something better give and something quick needs to give…im just sayin
carolbjones61

let’s cut entitlements for the wealthy and corporations before we cut entitlements for the poor. Raise taxes so the rich pay their fair share and cut their entitlements. Many Americans don’t realize that for every tax dollar that goes to benefit the poor, two tax dollars go to benefit the wealthy. Once the wealthy lose their entitlements–things such as tax deductions for luxury items, gambling losses, mortgage interest on multiple mansions, hiding money offshore, then we can decide how to hurt the poor.

idamag

Carol, yes, they should study corporate welfare.

howa4x

There are so many right wing intrest groups that the house members govern from fear of the dreaded primary where these same groups will push a more right leaning canidate. Club for growth, and other ones are funded by the Koch bros, who are immune to the plight of the middleclass, make them tow the line. They constantly use issues like abortion, gay marriage, and immigration to scare the red state people into voting against themselves. Why wouldn’t a red stater want a lowering of college loan intrest, or want the abolishing of the earned income tax credit for the working poor. It makes no sense. Under Obama the debt has come down and we are bending the cost curve in healthcare.The economy as measured by wall street has corporate profits higher than ever so the right wing argument that the president is hurting the economy is false. Corporations won’t invest in creating more jobs until they see stability in DC. The republican s consistantly have shown their inability to think outside their ideology for the good of the country, and govern instead of preach. The deal that was given to them by Obama called for a trillion in cuts and 1.2 trillion in revenue and even raised the eligability age for medicare. This was rejected by the tealiban who embarassed their speaker. Now Boehner’s only face saving move will be to go back to Obama’s offer and use democratic support to pass it. He has to realize that in order to make a governing coalition in the house he will need democrats and moderate republicans to pass anything. If the House continues to be an obstruction to getting anything done they will pay the 2014 price. The people in poll after pool have clearly said they want compromise and want the congress to start addressing the problems we face and not retreat to the gridlock they are so good at. The tealiban is not the future of the republican party if it wants to be relevant. This election sent a clear message that a majority rejected their harsh veiws. The speaker just has to realize that too.
notafoxfan

…and just who elected these “erstwhile” republicans to the house..the american voters in their districts did..it is totally unfortunate that these people dont know their “derrieres” from a hole in the ground and could care less about the general population they are supposed to be representing…boehner needs to cry because he no longer has the backing of his own party, and there are a few ‘weasels” waiting in the wings to replace him as his tenure is about to expire in january..medicare and social security should still not be on the negotiating table…….
RobertCHastings

There shall be a weeping and a wailing and a gnashing of teeth. Looks very possible that in the very near future a large number of Republican representatives may be looking at recall elections.
http://profile.yahoo.com/RPBNN74UIDEF3DXHRUNXAVSZCM Gary

Who doe the President make a deal with? There is no Leadership in the GOP Asylum left. I guess it is all hands for themselves. Bend over and grab your socks… we are all going over this GOP made Cliff together. It will only last a couple of years until Elections in 2014….then maybe the President will get something done…..and then in 2016 we get HILORY.
http://profile.yahoo.com/LIOWPV3RG2BI6EUJVVKTE6KSQU Charles

the cliff . there are a bunch of puses in congress. They rather see all americna go down. Than tax the rich more.

http://evfcf.mysite.com/ Charles Michael Jones

Yes, Government has it in for the people that are paying into charity more than into taxes and if Government forces them to borrow more money than they have they will be paying higher interest rates, much higher than the bank is paying to get the money cleared from the U.S. Treasury. This is a OBAMA RECESSION BEGINNING IN 2013, GEITHNER IS A COVERUP CAUSE HE KNOWS TAX MONEY IS NOT GOING TO GET THE FISCAL CLIFF OVER WITH, TO DO IT HE HAS TO GET MONEY WHICH THE RICH FEED TO CHARITIES ESP. THE OLYMPICS & ALL ITS SPONSORS. GEITHNER DON’T FOOL ME ANY.

http://profile.yahoo.com/ES2UMKTR4CDLPP22JNGQN3Z7SE Jackmack

No wonder the Republican party can’t get their act together Ryan and Cantor want the speakership from Boehner then we have the crazy tea party idlots
truthhunter13

I’m just wondering, what if we go over the so called “Fiscal cliff”?. The economy won’t go into a free fall and the sun will still come out of the East. Yes, we little people will suffer for a little while, but in exchange we’ll get to keep all the things that our ancestors fought for. This is our chance to prove once and for all that the Republicans’ tactics of instilling fear are as outdated as their ideology. Remember one thing, all those who signed the Norquist Pledge are serving him, not those who voted them in. If they could only have a change of heart and do what’s best for our country. Unfortunately, not facing primaries is more important to them than their own country. By the way, shouldn’t Grover Norquist be tried for treason?. (For interfering with government affairs). Oh I forgot, money talks……
http://www.facebook.com/philip.l.wiggle Philip Wiggle

Boehner, a rather smug looking SOB is he not! The man is a loser.
http://www.facebook.com/philip.l.wiggle Philip Wiggle

Boehner; a rather smug looking fool Taking his Party into the toilet.
http://profile.yahoo.com/DPY5ADXTDUGABOL7TPUJQEP5YE JOAQUIM

REPUBLICONS!
http://profile.yahoo.com/DPY5ADXTDUGABOL7TPUJQEP5YE JOAQUIM

It does nor matter how bad things get, you’ll always find a red neck in swets living out of SS voting Republicon. Years and years of brainwashing affect the neural connections in the brain.
http://twitter.com/YvesAFrancois Yves A. Francois

Who, among us, the truly concerned citizens of this country, has any faith in theses extremist right wing republicans to resolve the country’s problem? These are same people who, at their very core, believes that the NRA will offer meaningful policy ideas on the gun control issue. The same NRA, whose leader, boldly said this morning that what we need on and near our schools are more guns. I think it is time for the leaders of the Republican Party to come out and say what many has known for a long time “We dont care about the average American” W are trying to reserve the Country for Ourselves. These selfish beast have no place representing the america people. The sooner we, “THE PEOPLE” get these guys out of office and make that party extinct as the Dinasaurs, the better our countrywill be FOR ALL.
Eleanor

Do you honestly think peons like you and I would even have our emails read by someone in Obama’s administration. They have so many more important things to do than listen to the public that put them in office. We, by our votes are damned iif we do and damned if we don’t. No matter which way all this goes, you can bet your boots that it will all be what the president decided on. Democrats are NEVER wrong, only Republicans.
http://www.facebook.com/tim.day.92754 Tim Day

I clicked on the “like” button, because I like the fact that, MAYBE!, the people might finally wake up, but I dont like the fact that the 1%er’s are holding the American people hostage,or the amount of pure evil that resides with the Koch Bros. cronies,(Cheney, Boehner, Cantor, etc.). WTF !!!! Something has got to get done in congress, we can’t be at a stalemate again for the next 4 years! Unf**kin believeable……..
http://www.facebook.com/Norma525 Norma Price OGrady

sad day ! These people need to be held more accountable! WE NEED TO FIRE most of them and the others need a fat Cut in their salary and let them pay for their own medical and no retirement benefits to follow them the rest of their life…and their retirement age limit should be set at 70.
emadis41

The tea party hypocrisy is very apparent in Boehner’s Plan B, and in its subsequent defeat.
They are not serving their constituents, but the rich among us. I noticed this trend since 2000 and decided then not to vote for any GOP candidate, even if they are unopposed. Yet many of them won due to gerrymandering of the district in favor of GOP, thanks to their election in the 2010 off-year, that is how they still hold a majority in the house, they represent the minority of the voters, yet they are acting as if they will be there forever.
Wake up and smell the coffee, no more tea for you anymore.
http://profile.yahoo.com/345RS3XAFGJTTLDWJCRZXVIRDY James

We are getting exactly what we deserve these darn republicans have been nothing but a throne in our side and yet over and over Boehner and his hench men have not given a danm for any of us that are middle class. I hope the people of Indiana see what a anti-American he isBoehner and his Republican hench men sjhould be hung foir treason. I am discusted with the hold they have on America this cliff will take us right back to a very serious resession which will void any progress we have made. I will make this very clear my children won’t go hungry because of their greed let them know God help them all for this mess and now they go on Vacation the hell with the counrty.
http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

These Republican/Tea Bag terrorists are attempting to extort the Obama/Biden administration into bleeding the middle and lower class to save the upper class and keep them from paying their fair share of taxes and helping America rise from from thos economic slump. The “fiscal cliff” is a media generated term that is used by the Republican/Tea Bags to instill fear and paranoia in lesser informed people. There has never been nor will there ever be a fiscal cliff. Economists has already projected that if Congress doesn’t come up with a balanced budget by January, the economy will begin a gradual slide toward recession, not a direct plunge into an economic depression. The Republican/Tea Bags are trying to frighten the public into accepting their proposed cuts to Medicare, Medicade, Social Security, disability, mental health, healthcare, education, food stamps, care for the helpless and the homeless, all safety net programs. I didn’t mention their prized pet word “welfare” because welfare pays for itself in child support payments collected from fathers and mothers and thrown into one source for everyone. That’s how Bill Clinton cut America’s deficit and ended up with a surplus from the saving Clinton/Gore created by ending overall welfare and throwing millions of children under the bus. Welfare to work did work for a short time, but BushI ended the program, letting the bus run over millions of children. If there is no settlement between Republican/Tea Bags and Obama/Biden, the administration could take it upon themselves to prevent the recession and once again save the American economy without the Republican/Tea Bags. Obama/Biden did it before and they can do it again. America is just being given the grand opportunity to see the treason and domestic terrorism of the Republican/Tea Bags at work.
mavilasr

These Tea Party Republicans are a disgrace to the United States of America. They are determined to cater to the very rich at the expense of ordinary, hard working americans. I strongly question their negotiating skills. I do not see a single semblance of a probing, analytic, and problem-solving skill. What example are these adults to our children? What are they teaching the younger generation? It is time for these Extremist Republicans to either do the work the country expects of them or resign immediately and have someone who is willing to work for the majority of us take their place. The just say n0, no, no and more noooo Republicans continue their destructive ways!!!
charleo1

What was that saying? Evil happens when good people do nothing. Too many good people
stayed home in the 2010 mid terms. And while it can be debated if it’s evil that’s happening.
But it sure is no good.
http://profile.yahoo.com/WXAQEVOSVCMLVOA66YIGQ7LGGA manfred

Those Republicans still must believe in Santa Claus. First they need two hours until they realized that they lost the Presidential Election and some seats, now they refuse 60% of something, only to hold out for 100% of nothing. No wonder their math doesn’t add up. They need to go back to school – but wait they want to cut that budget too.
http://profile.yahoo.com/SR35FAY23FDMCTOLHT3DVB5O5I the king

Congress is all republican and it will no come to a end they will try to F Obama up just tell me who send all the jobs over see if you a good American you leave your money in American not over see that what romney did is that a true American god luck to you all
http://profile.yahoo.com/SR35FAY23FDMCTOLHT3DVB5O5I the king

just tell me who sens all the jobs over sea

Johan Bjornborg

There are plenty of STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Medicine) jobs available here. Menial labor jobs have somewhat shipped overseas, simply because it’s not cost effective to hire someone to answer phones for 3x as much.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_N66JKFRHFLOEIUUAUTAJ2MJW3U Nina

The Republican Party does NOT work for the people or the country; they are deep in bed and in debt with and to the one and two percent of our populace. They have lots of favors to retutn to them for all those millions of dollars corporations and the super wealthy gave to their campaigns. Thus, they do not want to increase their taxes, they must have the low taxation for the super wealthy so they can again financially support the Republicans in future elections. I thought by now the Repubs had realized that theyCANNOT BUY ELECTIONS AND THAT THE PRESIDENCE IS NOT UP AUCTION OR FOR SALE. I believe the majority of Americans are fed up with the Republicans for their refusal to work for the betterment of our country and our people. They love saying NO to anything our President supports and proposes. They ought to be totally ashamed of themselves for stupidly behaving like stubborn jackasses!!
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_N66JKFRHFLOEIUUAUTAJ2MJW3U Nina

Republican Party does NOT work for the people or the country; they are deep in bed with and deeply in debt and to the one and two percent of our populace. They have lots of favors to return to them for all those millions of dollars corporations and the super wealthy gave to their campaigns. Thus, they do not want to increase their taxes, they must have the low taxation for the super wealthy so they can again financially support the Republicans in future elections. I thought by now the Repubs had realized that theyCANNOT BUY ELECTIONS AND THAT THE PRESIDENCY IS NOT UP AUCTION OR FOR SALE. I believe the majority of Americans are fed up with the Republicans for their refusal to work for the betterment of our country and our people. They love saying NO to anything and everything our President supports and proposes. They ought to be totally ashamed of themselves for stupidly behaving like stubborn jackasses!!. Time to rid ouselves of Republicans in Congress; they refuse to do their jobs, why waste our money on them???
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Myers/100001512942781 Jim Myers

After we go over the cliff, the President and the Democrats should hold their ground on ALL social programs. No give backs at all.

Remove the cap on Social Security and Medicare taxes. Tax ALL income equally for these “entitlements”, regardless of how much a person makes.

Let the Republicans give up some of their sweetheart tax breaks for the military-industrial complex, gas and oil industries, agriculture, etc. for tax rates that are slightly higher than they were under President Clinton.

But make sure the ratio of NEW tax breaks to spending cuts is at least $5 of new revenue from income above $250,000 per year to $1 of new tax breaks for the wealthy, instead of
giving $2 to $10 dollars of spending cuts for $1 of tax breaks.

THEN LET US SEE HOW THE OBSTRUCTIONISTS LIKE BEING ON THE DEFENSIVE FOR A CHANGE.
http://profile.yahoo.com/ZRKDAFFU32ZRZAKS7NXJ3RVIHA ag

they have lost touch with the people they are in trusted to represent and have aligned themselves with who ever will ine their pockets
BarryG

The republican party have become the traitors they’ve fashioned themselves to be. They run against the American government instead of for it (improving it). They’re brought country low, they need to go.
conoclast

So what if we do go off the stupid “cliff”? What difference would it make to us here in the economic trenches, where barely-scraping-by has been the rule for decades? We’re used to “hardship”; fact is, we’ve become quite good at it. So just what it is they think they’re threatening us with by brandishing the Fiscal Cliff?

Change?

It’s time the public was as nihilistic as the House republicans who claim to represent it: BRING IT!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Eddie-Vroom/100001026398736 Eddie Vroom

Face it, the GOP has collapsed. The head’s just too numb to know it yet.
http://profile.yahoo.com/GQCNX6MHJGBOFHPYMIFHJRF3FI wallace a

What a sad commentary. I used to be a ticket splitter and yes have voted for Republican candidates both on the National and local level. However, beginning with the second Bush administration, I started voting straight Democrat and never thought I would do that in my life. These people are absolute idiots and have no concept of how to govern. I wonder how the people who voted for them feel now.
http://profile.yahoo.com/GQCNX6MHJGBOFHPYMIFHJRF3FI wallace a

What a sad commentary. I used to be a ticket splitter and yes have voted for Republican candidates both on the National and local level. However, beginning with the second Bush administration, I started voting straight Democrat and never thought I would do that in my life. These people are absolute idiots and have no concept of how to govern. I wonder how the people who voted for them feel now.
http://profile.yahoo.com/GQCNX6MHJGBOFHPYMIFHJRF3FI wallace a

Sorry, I did not mean to post the comment twice.
http://www.facebook.com/mark.vankirk.7 Mark VanKirk

The major problem here is that the U.S. fought two wars on credit and the bill is now coming due and a majority in the house does not want to pay it. I really don’t either, but I know it is coming and due.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001709100178 Steve Omand

With the Gerrymandered congressional districts that the Republicans have accomplished since 2010, they are essentially guaranteed to have a near majority of the house seats, no matter what Democrats do in 2014.
People need to wake up to what the Republicans have done in the state legislatures since the 2010 Tea Party mutiny against the American people. Gerrymandered redistricting and voter suppression laws enacted in about 30 states. They are doing what they always resort to: stack the deck. The Republican party is run by a bunch of traitors, thieves and liars and they are bankrolled by greedy wealthy bastards such the Koch brothers and huge corporations that do not give a damn about America or American people. They are intent on destroying all remaining shreds of control that “We the People” have over our government.

Wake up America! This is a call to arms. Defeat the bastards!
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_L6C7UVKGRBDM7XEDT7JULXS2SE myrna

The Republican Party is destroying itself by refusing to compromise! They simply do not get what the American people need or want from our government! They will be history soon,no longer needed or wanted by Americans!
rhallnj

Even the bankers and assorted rich who bankroll Republicans must be disappointed. They could have gotten a reasonable deal from Obama, and now face the possibility of recession and debt limit chicanery that is going to trash their portfolios.
http://twitter.com/devans00 devans00

Sadly a large portion of the American public is rooting the Republicans & their treasonous, selfish behavior on. After all, 47% of citizen voters were willing for things to get worse, according to their votes for Mitt Romney.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000226085055 Andy Rossignol

If anyone remembers , Clinton told the contract with America to KISS HIS Azz…………….and of course , he proved right……The TEA BAGGERS Don’t want to let that happen again…………That’s why we live in DR. Zuess land………………..The Land of just say NO……………They saw what happened when The GREATEST PRESIDENT OF THIS ERA Shoved it up their Wazoo……………He WAS RIGHT……………..LOL
http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Olson/1846614735 Brian Olson

How can anyone vote for these republican? They are no better than thieves and liars.
http://www.facebook.com/leroy.nesby Leroy Nesby

I do not why it is a suprise,republicans have always been for the rich so lets send them a wake-up call next election.They only care about the rich and it shows by their actions
http://www.facebook.com/people/Randy-Grein/1038154190 Randy Grein

Hmm, let’s get something straight. It wasn’t the majority of Republicans that refused to compromise, it was a significant minority – the tea party nooks. Problem is they are way, way too few to exist as a valid party on their own so they stay in the Republican party. And poison the well.

Not saying I approve of the Rs, but we need to be correct in our facts – or the whole thing blows up in our collective faces again.
http://evfcf.mysite.com/ Charles Michael Jones

You people actually hired the Congressmen & Senators to do this sort of stuff with your money so what is your beef, when the money is gone what are your thoughts on having hired people that you cannot pay anymore and how are you going to iron off the National Debt. I would have hoped that at least 25% of your taxes would have gone to paying off the National Debt before it hits its ceiling each month. When the money can’t be made to top off the Debt & pay off the Fiscal Budget for at least a four year term you got to pull back it is the same way when your short of troops and can’t advance any further you pull back. Those people you hired want to saturate your pockets with IOU’s over & over so what are you going to do get a gun and have Washington invaded? I cannot accept your premise that your complaining and you actually hire them to do that. I said at least 25% so why not have them pay back 25% for at least 25 years and once they have their money will be balanced against their debt and whatever is remaining they can chauffeur the amount into a super saver fund that will begin to pay them their cash flow back in retirement cash. Else you hired the wrong people t7o spend the money you want them to retire with and you need to call your senses at least daily to recourse your actions cause one day you will be out of time to spend the money you have if any.
http://evfcf.mysite.com/ Charles Michael Jones

You may not realize it but Government makes more money from loaning money to banks and Financial Institutions than it does from your Income Tax mainly because the banks are making a high interest from you when you borrow the same money and the problem exists that if you fail to pay the money back before it goes over your cliff where you can safely manage your money then your money will vanish in front of you before you pay off a significant amount of the owed money since 29.9% soon to be above 35% cause Obama will have a Fiscal Cliff Break Down and if you had been paying it off at 25% you would have been getting that much money for 4.9% but once it reaches 35% your only getting it for 10% and that is terrible but that is not the worst that will happen cause the percentile amount will one day reach 59.8% which means your going over a second cliff which began at 29.9% and again is at 29.9% so you have to give up your charity which is what Obama really wants out of you so you pay all the Income Earnings to Taxes Owed. Believe It Or Not, FOUR YEARS IS THE OBAMA RECESSION BEGINNING IN 2013.
http://evfcf.mysite.com/ Charles Michael Jones

SENATORS & CONGRESSMEN aren’t really worried about the Fiscal Cliff, they worked for those topics for a long time and have to decide if they are worth working on but the truth is something not even visible to the people watching the spectacle which they are carrying on about, it has to do with the 16,000 Feds OBAMA hired and the 16,000 Tax-Exempt VISA Accounts. The Feds a8re gathering up money hidden in banks around the nation which is money collected in Federal Taxes for commodity sales and licenses plus each time a court case is won and lost there are Federal Fees that must be paid and the money adds up eventually it has to be collected. In doing so the Feds buy merchandise like gasoline, food, clothing, tires, tickets for transportation and all the merrier when they have to fill out the tax report which exempts the charges and VISA eliminates the tax from the account once received, it is not a even trade-off so the Feds are making money on the road and it is time to count it up – Fiscal State Boundaries must be crossed by those funds. How many Natural Gas Vehicles did OBAMA order, how many airplanes and helicopters using it now by the Feds? You know they get 5%-8% cash money from every business they want to claim it from like oil companies, natural gas companies, bio-gas companies and they get it in commodities plus the tax-less system is working for them & against us cause we end up with National Debt the more they run around collecting the cash. I survived that rat race, try to accomplish that yourself.

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