By @LaurieInQueens

6 Situations Where ‘More Guns!!’ Didn’t Help At All

December 20, 2012 3:21 pm Category: Memo Pad 72 Comments A+ / A-

(Photo by “Ilmo Joe” via Flickr.com)

Since the tragic mass murder of 20 children and six adults in Newtown, CT last week, conservatives have been ringing that old, familiar bell: “MORE GUNS!” See, in right-wing world, the best way to curtail violence is… more violence. Everyone should be packing. If those teachers (and even the kids, some of the crazier types say) had only been as heavily armed as the shooter, everyone but him would still be alive!

Of course that scenario would have to take several fantastical leaps before it landed in the vicinity of feasibility, but the general advice from conservatives is, “When you’re faced with a sudden invasion of armed intruders, everything will come out OK as long as you’re armed, too.” The fact that both Columbine High School and Virginia Tech were protected by armed guards doesn’t seem to count at all.

So let’s take a look at a few instances in history—some famous, others notsomuch—where being armed really didn’t help at all.

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6 Situations Where ‘More Guns!!’ Didn’t Help At All Reviewed by on . (Photo by "Ilmo Joe" via Flickr.com) Since the tragic mass murder of 20 children and six adults in Newtown, CT last week, conservatives have been ringing that o (Photo by "Ilmo Joe" via Flickr.com) Since the tragic mass murder of 20 children and six adults in Newtown, CT last week, conservatives have been ringing that o Rating:

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  • http://www.facebook.com/douglas.james.712 Douglas James

    I take it that it’s safe to say that there has never been a case in the US of a mass gun murder being prevented by an armed civilian. If I am wrong, someone please respond with a statement the facts.

    • Paul Kennedy

      It’s impossible to know. It’s like preventing WWI and the Holocaust by killing Hitler. In, say, 1935, or even 1939, nobody could know what would happen over the next few years. If Hitler had been killed those things might not have happened (although of course Hitler did not act alone), but no-one could know what would’ve happened instead.
      I guess what you need is an occasion where someone carrying weapons with a great killing capacity says “I’m going to kill you all” and is then shot and incapacitated. I haven’t heard of that happening.
      By the way, someone ask the NRA: if a person owns some guns and decides to take them to school or to the mall one day, and someone else shoots him dead in case he was planning a massacre, hasn’t the first person’s right to bear arms been violated?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

        Paul, sorry, it was very very possible to know what Hitler intended. He laid it all out in a book titled “Mein Kampf”(My Struggle).In addition after Kristalnacht it was obvious what the Nazi Party intended, and the Germen people backed him wholeheartedly.

        • Allan Richardson

          Actually, without Hitler the other Nazi leaders might have fought their war and staged their Holocaust more EFFICIENTLY. We were fortunate that Hitler’s mental instability led him to make some really dumb moves: expelling (or harassing into leaving) the Jewish scientists such as Einstein, which caused some of the best non-Jewish scientists to leave out of sympathy, and we know how THAT ended; attacking Russia before having secured a Western victory or truce; forbidding his Gestapo and SS, on pain of death, even to study the international language Esperanto (it was invented by a Jew), which the civilian resistance movements used to communicate under their noses; and several other stupidities.

          I read an alternate history short story a few years ago, in which the aging artist Adolf Hitler, exiled to Switzerland because he had tried to fight the Nazis, tells his life story. In that story’s universe, Hitler had been admitted to the art institute because of a secret gift by a mysterious donor (possibly a time traveler), and had become a LIBERAL socialist, trying to support the resistance movement with his successful art earnings, but the Nazis remained in power without him, winning a “coexistence” treaty allowing them to keep all continental Europe.

    • http://twitter.com/PhoenixWomanMN Phoenix Woman

      If there was one, you can bet your boots that the NRA and its trained minions would have cited it by now.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

      In fact, there have been many cases of police officers being gunned down by armed citizens…
      Shooters don’t give advance warnings before they carry out their crimes, they don’t walk around with a sign on their forehead informing people they are planning to kill them. Once you are shot and dead, it doesn’t matter if you were packing a Glock or had a Stinger missile in your car, you are dead.

      • ObozoMustGo

        Dommy…. there are magnitudes more examples of police gunning down armed thugs than the other way around, you dope!

        Merry Christmas!

        “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Ben Franklin

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

          What difference would it make. I have the element of surprise, and probably am wearing a bulletproof vest . Besides once the shooting starts it becomes a melee with people scurrying in all directions(getting in the way of the “good guy”.) Besides, if he fires without warning before the “bad guy” does he may be open to manslaughter charges, particularly if a bystandwer is hit.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.stang.37 David Stang

        99% of these killings involve gang members and drug dealers with prior records. You are not convincing anyone that guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens are not effective.

    • johninPCFL

      The closest cases were likely reported here, and in both cases the perpetrator quickly dealt with the interference.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.stang.37 David Stang

        Actually, there are a large number of police reports available in city databases. A citizen stopping an assailant, armed or not, is VERY COMMON.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/QHVVI2H2IH7TUSKNDLRIMZREWU c

      Look up the Trolley Square shooting in Salt Lake City. The gunman was stopped by and off duty police officer who was from a town 35 miles to the north and was there shopping. The man had a backpack full of amunition that he never got the chance to use because he was shot.

    • ObozoMustGo

      As a matter of fact, DJ, there was one just recently. The mall shooting in OR was ended when an armed citizen got in position to kill the shooter. He did not shoot because there were people behind the shooter. But when the shooter saw the armed man, he then turned his gun on himself thus ending the killing. Almost daily in the US, some law abiding citizen defends themselves against thugs. This does not make the news because it does not fit the leftist freak narrative clamoring for gun control.

      Besides, your question is a stupid question because there is no way to prove what might have happened. How would you know. There would simply be a story about an armed citizen taking out a bad guy. This happens a lot.

      Merry Christmas!

      “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Ben Franklin

      • http://www.facebook.com/Goose.FD Jerry Jay Bombero

        Oh the ol’ leftist media dodge…so this information came to you in a dream, or did you see it reported on the news? One, it may not have been carried from the angle you desire, “Man pull out gun to defend innocent bystanders”, because he didn’t shoot…no story. Two, you’re now just making stuff up…unless you got an interview via Ouija board, or the shooter made a dying declaration, you can’t claim with any certainty that the perp committed suicide because he saw an armed opponent. Ironic you would accuse someone else of being stupid because “there was no way to prove what might have happened”, then go and do the same thing yourself…going so far as to make up facts. Your the reason we can’t have honest debate about gun control/regulation in this country…a lack of honesty and a proclivity to make up facts to fit your narrative, while accusing others of that for which you, yourself, are guilty.

        • ObozoMustGo

          JJ…. you are dead wrong. Of course, most leftist freaks are wrong on ALL matters. Regarding the Oregon mall, go to YouTube and search on this term: “Oregon Mall Shooting Stopped By Licensed Gun Carrier” and you will see an interview by local TV with Nick Meli. You can’t be so stupid to call someone else’s claim false when you yourself have no clue what the hell you are talking about. Go look it up, you moron.

          Merry Christmas!

          “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Ben Franklin

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/YBYYIQHBLD7BZAU6L3DC7MS4YM Rodney

            do the rest of us a favor stick you gun in your right ear and pull the trigger babies were killed you ass because some stupid gun nut had too damn many and then ended up getting killed by her mentally ill son on guns no dead babies. ass

          • Inthenameofliberty

            What does CT have to do with the civilian in the mall?

    • Gendo Ikari

      You’re asking for proof of a negative. Kind of like finding evidence that God exists and he rides a pink unicorn.

      Do you know what you call a “mass murder” that was prevented?
      Not a mass murder.

      If you’re interested in cases where armed civilians ended crimes and saved lives, there are tens to hundreds of thousands of those every year. But of course… those lives don’t matters to Liberals.

      • http://www.facebook.com/douglas.james.712 Douglas James

        If a cop prevents a crime is that ” proof of a negative”? Do I know what you call a “mass murder” that was prevented? Yes, that would be an act of heroism, but there appear to be no documented cases where an armed civilian did it. You’re a cynical conservative who talks out both sides of his/her mouth as the circumstances warrant.

        Ye, I am “interested in cases where armed civilians ended crimes and saved lives”, so name a few – of course that is also “attempting to prove a negative”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.stang.37 David Stang

      First, 99.99% of all murders are not of that type. It’s mostly 1-on-1 or a small group. There are literally thousands of documented police reports confirming that armed citizens successfully stop criminal acts.

      • http://www.facebook.com/douglas.james.712 Douglas James

        Let’s deal with the facts then, shall we? Name a few of those “literally thousands”.

  • TZToronto

    The Empire State Building shooting–by the police, no less– puts the lie to the argument that the midnight theater shooting at the premiere of The Dark Knight Rises could have been prevented if the audience members had been armed. In the bright sunlight in NYC, even the cops, trained to use firearms, couldn’t avoid shooting bystanders. Shooting by audience members in the dark would have resulted in not a dozen dead by dozens dead. Everyone would have been shooting at everyone else, not knowing who the real bad guy was. The lack of common sense among those who promote carrying concealed weapons in theaters, schools, churches, and other peaceful places is mind-boggling! In fact, carrying concealed weapons anywhere is just begging for trouble, especially where shoot first-ask later is accepted.

    • haggus

      That is NYPD for you. City boys who check the block with minimal firearms training. Most citizens with a concealed carry permit practice far more than these guys.

      • http://twitter.com/PhoenixWomanMN Phoenix Woman

        You mean like Brendan McKown?

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ford-Truck/100003735221640 Ford Truck

          In Marine training, I was always taught to shoot first, and that training was valuable – and emphasized – during my 2 tours in ‘Nam.

          Brendon McKown’s mistake was telling Dominick Maldonado to “Put the gun down!” When McKown saw Maldonado, who was armed with a semi-automatic rifle randomly shooting at people, McKown should have simply opened fire. No warning! If he hadn’t warned the shooter, he could have killed him and stopped the rampage at the moment.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

        Could you quote your source?

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/YBYYIQHBLD7BZAU6L3DC7MS4YM Rodney

          your asking him to do the impossible thats to read

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.stang.37 David Stang

      Is EVERY person in Canada a liberal? What you actually tried to prove COTRADICTS what you are trying to prove.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Jones/827014412 Daniel Jones

    The Tacoma Mall shooting alone proves that having an armed teacher does not help these situations, as the shooter at the Mall shot at and shot down the armed citizen in that instance.

    • Gendo Ikari

      There as this one time a cop showed up to a robbery and the criminal shot him before he could respond. That’s proof alone that cops are useless and don’t need guns because they never work, except for the thousands of times they do.

      Liberal logic.

  • haggus

    Wow. Just Wow. Arming kids some say according to the author? Some? Who? I have heard no one, no gun owner, no one in the NRA or anywhere else suggest this. And Ft Hood? No, the base is not, I repeat, not crawling with people armed with guns. Soldiers’ weapons are locked up in the armory when not actually in use, like for example, when a bunch of soldiers are in a building doing paperwork, or pretty much anything else not involving shooting rifle. When they do have their firearms, they do not have live ammo unless on a live fire range or in actual combat situations. Guard duty has largely been relegated to federal DoD police officers who are pretty much the only people with loaded weapons, just like out in the civilian world. Hassan of course would know this, just like other mass killers know where people are not allowed to have firearms by law.

    • Justin Napolitano

      The NRA is full of john Wayne types that think they are going to save the day with their guns. Tell that to the 30,000 dead, gunshot, Americans each year of which 3000 are children.

      • Gendo Ikari

        … with 2/3rds of those being suicides.

        But hey… since when have actual facts ever mattered to gungrabber propaganda.

  • http://twitter.com/PhoenixWomanMN Phoenix Woman

    Watch as the NRA dupes and fellow travelers ignore this part of the story:

    When Dominick Maldonado entered a mall in Tacoma, Washington armed with a semi-automatic MAK-90 rifle and started randomly shooting at people, he found more than he bargained for—in the person of Brendan McKown, a citizen who happened to be packing a 9mm CZ pistol. “Put the gun down!” he demanded. That demand was promptly met with a burst of gunfire, which eventually left McKown paralyzed.

    Going on his merry way after what he surely considered a minor inconvenience, Maldonado then took four hostages, including a child, whom he quickly released. Four hours and a SWAT team later, the gunman surrendered—convinced, apparently, not by anyone shooting at him, but by conversations he had with two of his hostages, both with a military background.

    MAK-90 shooter not stopped by guy with 9mm, but is stopped by hostages who use a more effective weapon: Brain power.

    • Gendo Ikari

      There as this one time a cop showed up to a robbery and the criminal shot him before he could respond. That’s proof alone that cops are useless and don’t need guns because they never work, except for the thousands of times they do.

      Liberal logic

  • http://twitter.com/Fordwv724 George

    I gotta gun, he gotta gun. Everybody got guns!

  • actuated

    Laurie, US military bases are not “crawling with guns” – soldiers aren’t allowed to carry them on domestic bases. A lot of people seem to be stating or implying Fort Hood was full of armed soldiers, and this couldn’t be further from the truth. There were two civilian police officers who were armed and engaged the shooter – that’s it. As much as I agree that arming everyone is a ridiculously stupid idea, Fort Hood does nothing to support that.

  • RobertCHastings

    Another clear incident of those being attacked having greater firepower than the attackers was Pearl Harbor. While a large component of the American Pacific Fleet was in pearl Harbor at the time, and radar had at least warned them of an incoming force, the US naval superiority was no match for what the Japanese did. As for cases in which an armed defender overcame an armed intruder, I guess Sarah Palin could name a few.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

      Robert, you certainly picked a very very wierd comparison. The fleet had NOT been warned by radar. Radar was init’s infancy and not very reliable. In addition the islands were expecting a large incoming force of B-17′s that morning. Thus the duty officer at the center saw no threat and notified no one.

  • howa4x

    You can have all the target practice you want but very few people unless mentally challanged or ideologially filled with hatred can shoot to kill another person. Especially if that person as the ability to shoot back. I’ve listened to the fairytale of the right wing that if only that principal was armed with the same caliber of gun this tragedy wouldn’t have happened, which is ridiculas.What if the rincipal was on the other side of the school, or out that day with a cold. Same with a police offcer who is assigned there. After a few months or years of no attack they become lax or the police chief might pull them for an emergency or other pressing duty. What if the shooter has a number of semi automatic large magazine weapons and the cop has a standard .45? The NRA will use any absurdity instead of dealing with the issue of too many unregulated guns.

    • Justin Napolitano

      What if the principal fired and missed and hit a student instead?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/YBYYIQHBLD7BZAU6L3DC7MS4YM Rodney

        then the question would be why the fu#@#@ did the principal have a gun in school. the n.r.a. response we need more trained teacher in school

      • Gendo Ikari

        Typical idiot liberal response. I heard this same bullshit when they were arguing about air marshals in planes.

        Do you know what happens when a shot is fired trying to stop a mad arab from blowing up an airliner and one person is injured or killed in the scuffle? 299 people are saved.

        Liberal maths. They lack any sense of scale (or the slightest damn concern for actually protecting lives) and would rather see all 300 people die helplessly in a fireball then dare risk the lives of a few in an effort to save the rest.

        You are cowards and fools.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

      In fact, the principal was originally responding to “a disturbance” (breaking glass and some kind of explosion). It is extremely unlikely she recognised the sound of gunfire and found herself faced with a situation she could never imagine. The fact that she charged the shooter is a testament to her ability to mentally process information and respond. Not all of us can do so.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.stang.37 David Stang

      Your premise is completely WRONG and not supported by any facts. Train a person properly in the use of firearms and put them in a situation where using the firearm will save their life or the lives of others around them ad they will shoot instinctively, even if they are a “bleeding heart liberal”, like you.

  • ObozoMustGo

    For all of you so willing to trade in your liberty for perceived safety, take a look at the path that gun control takes and ask yourself if you really think more laws will stop crazy people.

    TRUE STORY:

    You’re sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door. Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers.

    At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.

    With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun. You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it. In the darkness, you make out two shadows. One holds something that looks like a crowbar.

    When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire. The blast knocks both thugs to the floor. One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.

    As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you’re in trouble. In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless..

    Yours was never registered. Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died. They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.

    When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter. “What kind of sentence will I get?” you ask. “Only ten-to-twelve years,” he replies, as if that’s nothing. “Behave yourself, and you’ll be out in seven.”

    The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper. Somehow, you’re portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys. Their friends and relatives can’t find an unkind word to say about them..

    Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both “victims” have been arrested numerous times. But the next day’s headline says it all:

    “Lovable Rogue Son Didn’t Deserve to Die.”

    The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters..

    As the days wear on, the story takes wings. The national media picks it up, then the international media. The surviving burglar has become a folk hero. Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he’ll probably win.

    The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you’ve been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects. After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time. The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.

    A few months later, you go to trial. The charges haven’t been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted. When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you.. Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man. It doesn’t take long for the jury to convict you of all charges. The judge sentences you to life in prison.

    This case really happened.

    On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second. In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term..

    How did it become a crime to defend one’s own life in the once great British Empire ?

    It started with the Pistols Act of 1903. This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license.

    The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns..

    Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.

    Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987.Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw. When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.

    The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of “gun control”, demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

    Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland , Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.

    For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals. Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners.
    Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns. The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearms still owned by private citizens.

    During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism. Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun. Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.

    Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, “We cannot have people take the law into their own hands.”

    All of Martin’s neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences.
    Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.

    When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities. Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn’t were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn’t comply.

    Police later bragged that they’d taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.

    How did the authorities know who had handguns? The guns had been registered and licensed. Kind of like cars. Sound familiar?

    WAKE UP AMERICA ; THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

    Merry Christmas to all!

    “…It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds..” — Samuel Adams

    • Justin Napolitano

      Please stick your gun up your ass and blow your brains out. This is 2012 not 1775, dumb ass.
      20 children are dead, please try and remember that they were not killed by harsh words but by bullets fired from an assault weapon held by an unstable human being. You are proof that humans are unstable evidenced by your rambling drivel. Humans kill and when armed unthinkingly kill and when armed with assault weapons kill many innocent people, children included.

      • ObozoMustGo

        Nappy… you are such a kneejerk reactionary fool just like all the other leftist freaks out there who seek to deny me my liberties because of the actions of a crazy man. I get why you losers think like that, though. The reason is that you steadfastly refuse to blame individuals for their own behavior, and instead blame society for their behavior. Then you think in that little single-step-thinking pea brain of yours that there is some law that can be passed to correct said bad behavior. There is no law that can be passed to stop people from being crazy. If there were, you would have never existed, you idiot.

        The fact is that an individual’s behavior is NOT collective behavior. Despite how many laws we pass and how restrictive we control people’s behavior and their lives, there will always be crazy people who will do crazy things. I am not willing to trade my liberties for your false sense of security. So… STFU you wimp!

        Merry Christmas!

        “Societies biggest failure is it has allowed authority to be its truth; and prevented truth from being its authority.” — Mobius Nemesis

        • Del WS

          Your concern for freedom has to extend to allowing other people the freedom to disagree with you.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Del, I agree with you 100%. While others may voice their opinion as I voice mine, that does not mean that I have to respect the leftist freak mindset or downright stupidity. Besides, I think you will find that it’s the left that does NOT want free speech. It’s the left that censors speech. It’s the left that seeks to pass laws like the Fairness Doctrine in order to shut up opposition voices on the radio.It’s the left that codifies politically correct speech. Not the right, my friend.

            Thank you for your comment, and have a wonderful and Merry Christmas, Del.

            “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” ― George Orwell

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

            No, but you do have to respect other’s rights to their own opinion. Belittling them is not conducive to any rational discussion. and BTW, the “fairness doctine” does NOT restrain person from saying what they want and feel. It DOES require a broadcasting station to allow opposing views to be broadcast. At present we have no means of rebutting the millionaires who preach hate of their fellow citizens so long and loud. Yes, society is responsibile for what is happening. We are way too permissive of others behavior. We are WAY too reluctant to get involved whne we see others under attack, we are WAY too willing to respond to outrage by wrtinging our hands rather than standing up asnd screaming “THIS IS WRONG”. We are WAY to ignorant of what our elected representatives are doing after wqe vote. We are way

    • virginia_slim

      Your boy Cheney pushed through the Patriot Act, and the Feds can now read every one of your emails, track what you look at on the internet, and scan every piece of mail you receive. Aren’t you right-wing Republicans wonderful.
      Why don’t you sit quietly in the dark like a nice little wingnut and fondle your little gun — the shrinks may be right with their theories about substitution and rebellion against potty training.
      You actually believe those fairytales about the big bad police taking away your guns, because you read about it on some site.
      Just pull out your .22 and rub your hand up and down its barrel until you feel better.

      • ObozoMustGo

        Hey VA Slime… have you heard of the NDAA? You know, the one Obozo and the DemonRATS along with phony Repubs like McCain pushed through? You know, the act that grants the government the ability to arrest and detain indefinitely American citizens without legal representation, warrant, or due process? Guess that doesn’t bother you because your messiah Obozo signed it into law. I suppose it certainly doesn’t bother you that Obozo has not repealed the Patriot Act but has instead reauthorized every single bit of it and strengthened it through the NDAA. Well, as long as Obozo does it, it’s OK, right?

        You’re a little piece of garbage, AND a crass hypocrite. Until you are ready to bitch about Obozo for the same and worse than Bush…. you can STFU!!!

        Merry Christmas!

        “There is evil in the world. It’s beyond mental illness, beyond gun control. It is evil.” — John R. Coyne, Jr.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

    However, there are many documented cases of innocent persons being shot accidently by both police and gun toting citizens trying to stop a criminal.

  • ralphkr

    The statement :”Fort Hood military base—a place crawling with guns and folks who are trained to use them” shows that the author has never served in the military or even been on a military base. The only place on a base “crawling with guns” other than the MP office is the range. Those men marching in formation with weapons do not have any ammo with them. You either march or are trucked to the range with your weapon where you sign for ammunition and, when finished, you have to turn in your brass and unused ammo and that must equal the number of rounds that you checked out. Military bases are truly the most ‘gun free’ zones in the US. Note that the only armed persons in the area, other than Hasan, were civilian police officers.

    • ObozoMustGo

      Hello Ralphie! Just read your post and wanted to commend you. It’s amazing how someone that “writes” for a living can get away with doing so without gathering basic facts first. I know you won’t see it this way outside of this specific case, but this is exactly the same “reporting standards” the leftist freaks use to sell Americans on their socialist agenda. This happens in almost every single article on The Memo and of course across the mainstream media.

      One more point Ralph…. it’s mind boggling to me that the leftist freak media has refused to call Ft. Hood what it really was: TERRORISM. For to admit the truth, they’d be going against their boy, Obozo.

      Merry Christmas, Ralph! I still think you should get a job as Santa at the mall or something. You’d make a helluva Sant Clause.

      “Societies biggest failure is it has allowed authority to be its truth; and prevented truth from being its authority.” — Mobius Nemesis

      • http://twitter.com/SAJP Sa Janes

        “Obozo” — I guess you are, what, maybe 12 years old with the maturity of a six year old? All over every military base there are MPs on duty patrol. Let’s not all leap to yet another wingnut fantasy– try to get your *facts* straight–two of the officers downed at Fort Hood were fully armed police.

        • ObozoMustGo

          SJ… The 2 MP’s were among the first one’s killed. If other troops were armed, the TERRORIST monkey would have probably never attempted the mass shooting or it would have been over very quickly with far fewer deaths of innocent lives.

          Why can’t the Obozo regime call Ft. Hood a terrorist attack like it was?

          One other question: What are you? An Occupy Wall Street bum? Go take a shower before communicating with me next time. You stink like feces and you’re making me sick. And by the way, get a job you loser!

          Merry Christmas!

          “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” ― George Orwell

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

            Strange quote. I assume you do not understand that that is what tenure for school teachers is all about. That is pretty obvious from your politics.

      • virginia_slim

        Why would such a highly educated and learned individual, such as you, find yourself on a web site offering honesty, when you could be over at Faux Noise, World Nut Daily, or Breitbart?
        You do realize that you sound like a TeaBagger, sucking up to ol’ Ralphie.
        The TeaBaggers did so well in the last election. Romney, Ryan, Gingrich, Bachmann, Huckleberry Hucklebe, and even Santorum — all of the best the TeaBagger wing of the Republican Party had to offer — might as well call it as it is, what floated to the surface of that puddle in the basement of the latrine (along with the rest of the trickle down).
        Might want to gargle to get all that hate and self-loathing out of your system.
        Wash your sheets, put them on, set fire to a cross, and show your true colors.

        • ObozoMustGo

          VA Slime…. you seem to be well read…….. in leftist freak cliche’s. Other than that, there’s no substance in that little pea brain of yours.

          Merry Christmas, and remain oblivious!

          “The difference between being stupid and being a fool: A stupid person at least has an idea about their own inadequacies. The fool is oblivious to them, and is more inclined to believe their own fantasies and lies as truth.” – ObozoMustGo

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KOPKDFAUQPIIRAFI3HEXNMSHLQ Ed

            One of the dumber thoughts I have read on the net.

  • http://www.facebook.com/emmet.barta.7 Emmet Barta

    and I guess every one could say the gun laws in Chicago have removed gun use crimes HA ya right

  • http://www.facebook.com/Mabon.Tail Andrew Garrison

    Not to mention Kent State, where the armed guards were the ones shooting innocent people.

  • bchrista

    I think Obozomustgo miss interpreted the Second Amendmentit doesn’t say individual citizen must have a horde of weapons stashed in his home it states a well armed militia to protect the country against armed invaders and in the years since it was interpreted and accepted by the people to mean the citizen, it was also meant to prevent a government take over eligally of the country ,however, with the introduction of all the modern weapons the average citizen wouldn’t stand a chance if the government wanted to create marshall law, Also obviously Obozomustgo has fail to read about how many innocent persons have been shot by their own family member who woke up in the middle of the night and fired with looking because it was dark and they person with the gun couldn’t see who they were shooting, but I guess that’s alright because you con always be sorry later,and how about the people that were shot deliberatly by someone wanting to get rid of someone they nolonger wanted around, like they say guns don’t kill people people kill people and so long as a gun is available you got an avenue for disaster. Remember people if a crimminal wants a gun he’ll know where he can get one there are too many Saturday night specials around.

    • Allan Richardson

      The danger is not from the “professional” criminal getting a gun, but the amateur “future” criminal getting one TOO easily. Domestic arguments without a gun are much less likely to end with homicide (or suicide, or both) than those in which a gun can be grabbed in the heat of the moment. The so-far law-abiding citizen will not plan to get a gun illegally because he/she has not PLANNED to kill someone. The unbalanced but not “criminally trained” person will not go to the black market as his/her (usually his, for some reason) first choice, because of the fear of being identified and stopped.

      Someone mentioned the car analogy. I suppose if the British had tried to confiscate colonists’ horses and wagons to stop rebellion, someone would have put the “right to keep and ride carriages and horses” into the Constitution, and when the automobile came along, they would have stopped car registration and driver licensing as a violation of that Constitutional clause.

  • Thomas Michael Thompson

    Telling that B.S. lie about armed guards being at these schools well that says enough for me ! Yes after X number of people , mostly school kids or personal , some armed forces of different kinds showed up . At one of these schools at least one cop hid behind a tree and the other hid next to a door ! As it is today all anyone need do in all but a few schools in the U.S. with the exceptions of for example where the Presidents childern are attending , is to walk in , find kids , and using any gun starting taking aim and pulling the trigger ! Was this artical just talking about schools ? A 12 year old girl protected herself and her home with a gun and this not long ago ! Plus a women used her shotgun to kill two men who were armed with knives when they brok into her bed room where
    she and her 3 year old daughter were ! If you break into my home armed with a Stinger missle Dom you can kill me but not if I have a gun ready and kill you first ! Stupid to write what you wrote Dom !

  • http://twitter.com/callmeanson Anson

    “Ft. Hood military base, a place crawling with guns.” Because everyone on base only move/sleep/eat/pee from their segway turrets. Give me a break. If someone walks into a police station and starts shooting people are going to get hurt. That’s the element of surprise. However, someone will eventually be able to stop them, unlike the Sandy Hook ‘incident’.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gary.graves.18062 Gary Graves

    A civilian with a weapon is dangerous, they are not trained in combat and panic easily. The Gabriel shooting in AZ , there was a civilian with gun permit in the crowd, He had the training so didn’t do the stupid thing like draw his weapon, he said someone could have mistaken me for a second shooter, also the person waving the gun was not the shooter, the shooter was on the ground, so he could have shot the wrong person. The best thing to do is run for your life.

  • NV

    This article is absolutely stupid because the crimes were going to happen whether a citizen was armed or not, at least if your armed you have a fighting chance, i suppose “talking ” to the perpetrator is much more reasonable and trying to “understand” the perpetrator will save you because talking will stop the crazies from raping you, from raping and killing your family, or stop mad killer from shooting everything in sight, this is a stupid article, now if the crime was the armed citizen than there would be a case but it is not, this madness the left is breathing in is sickening, what is wrong with you people

  • Gendo Ikari

    … now lets do an article on the number of times guns have saved lives, prevented crimes, stopped a woman from being raped, or a family destroyed… you know, so we can’t accuse the media of having a heavy and transparently obvious liberal anti-gun bias.

    Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

  • Gendo Ikari

    Ft. Hood is the equivalent to a college campus environment you ignorant liberal shill. They do not walk around with weapons on base. It’s not a f’cking front-line base in Afghanistan. No one was armed in the facility that was attacked.

    And what ended that shooting? A civilian police officer. The first person to respond with a gun.

    Typical gungrabber ignorance from a group of nitwits that learned everything they know about firearms watching late-night war movies and playing video games.

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