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Wednesday, March 20, 2019

Caleb and Katie Medley, from the Facebook page soliciting donations for their medical care

In the wake of yet another well-armed madman killing and maiming innocent Americans, we are again rediscovering the malign influence of the NRA (correctly described by Alan Berlow as the criminals’ lobby). But the political salience of the Aurora tragedy extends beyond the usually sterile argument over gun control.

Among the casualties there happens to be a young family whose plight illustrates another hotly debated national disgrace: the absence of universal health coverage.

In the audience that night sat Caleb Medley and his very pregnant wife Katie, who had come out for the first showing of “The Dark Knight Rises” in Aurora. Like many expecting couples, they were enjoying a last small fling, bracing for the months to come when date nights at the movies would no longer be possible. Caleb is an aspiring comedian who has worked at Wal-mart and Target, while Katie is studying to become a veterinary technician. Within a few days, the high-school sweethearts anticipated the birth of a boy, already named Hugo.

When the shooting began, Katie and her unborn son escaped, but a round hit Caleb in the head; he lost an eye and suffered some brain damage. Currently in a medically induced coma, he will remain in intensive care for at least two weeks – and in hospital for much longer. If he recovers, his hospital expenses could come to as much as $2 million, according to CBS News, which broke their story.

Added to that will be the costs of his wife’s pregnancy – unexpected but welcomed by Caleb and Katie as “a blessing” — and the delivery of their baby.

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170 responses to “Let Them Live: Wounded And Pregnant, An Aurora Family Without Health Coverage”

  1. old_blu says:

    We really do need national health care, and good luck to the Medleys.

    • OPM other people’s money until there is none left

      • old_blu says:

        If all the “other people’s” pay their share as I do, I think we will be okay.

        • The irony is that the “other people” who fought the mandate to get coverage from for profit insurance companies to the bitter end are Republicans accustomed to getting free care at ERs when they get sick. That, BTW, is one of the most important reasons for rising cost of medical care in the USA.

          • totenkatz says:


          • old_blu says:

            I don’t know if I agree that it is just the “Republicans”, but I do agree that it is the main reason health care, and insurance cost so much. (i’m not going to blame one party for that)

          • The other party did not object to the mandate that obligates ALL Americans to be responsible and pay for the care we need. You are correct in pointing out that Republicans are not the only ones that have been using ERs to get free medical care. They are, however, the ones that preach personal responsibility while taking advantage of the government programs they demonize.

          • old_blu says:

            Now you and I are on the same page.(well said)

          • Elsa says:

            People who use the ER are usually desperate for care. Sometimes it is the only place they can get care.

          • Landsende says:

            I volunteerd at a hospital and everyday we would see people come into the emergency room instead of going to a clinic or doctors office. Most of them were not seriously sick but knew if they went to the emergency room the hospital was required to treat them and they wouldn’t have to pay. That raises the amounts those with insurance end up paying to make up for those that don’t have insurance. By the way, most of them were well dressed and drove fairly new cars. If everyone had to carry affordable insurance the emergency rooms could go back to being for real emergencies and healthcare costs would come down.

          • DurdyDawg says:

            Not true.. Ask the nurses that work in these places how many minor aches and pains they tend to.. For a few, it’s to save that costly appointment and any out of pocket expense..

          • joyscarbo says:

            Exactly…I’ve been an ER nurse for the past 6 years and I can tell you that people with no insurance use the ER’s as their personal clinic. The majority of these folks aren’t poor people either…they’re working class people who work for businesses who don’t provide healthcare insurance. Or, their place of employment keep their employees at part-time so they don’t qualify for healthcare benefits.

          • overpaidCS says:

            They have no insurance no future so they are having a KID???? How utterly ridiculous

          • Bunny says:

            Would you rather she had an abortion ?

        • Maybe if people like Romney didn’t hide theirs overseas and pay their fair share we all would be better off!

        • Elsa says:

          That is the purpose of a mandate or tax, it ensure that people pay their fair share upfront or outback for the freeloader who try to get away as long as they can before paying. Private insurance works exactly the same way; Insurers like to cover large employers because they get a premium for everyone they are covering and only a small percentage will actually use it. That way they are ensured a profit and yet have money to cover the cost of the sicker employees. The need for a large pool of people in order to make a profit is why private insurer charge so much for individual coverage and why they exclude people who have pre-existing conditions; it is also why the private insurer pushed for a mandate. Most people are willing to pay their fair – it only the freeloader who will feel the sting of the penalty.

        • That is where the rub comes in. Some people don’t pay their fair share of taxes.

      • Mort Alcoil says:

        OPM pays for the roads YOU drive on; OPM pays the salaries of your local Police Force; OPM pays for the pipes and the infrastructure that brings you fresh water every day; OPM pays for the national power grid that allows people like you to use a computer that runs on electricity so you can type your brainless propaganda and ignore the actualities of the fact that YOU, yes YOU use socialized services EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE!

      • AIMPOINT says:

        The problem is we already have universal health care of sorts, but unorganized, unnecessarily expensive and financed with OPM.

        Since the Supreme Court has held that hospitals cannot turn away the sick or injured, the uninsured receive treatment from Emergency Rooms, which is much more expense than ordinary care. The hospitals and the taxpayers bear that cost.

        Added to this is the cost of having folks in our society who are carrying untreated diseases which can infect innocent (insured) victims.

        ACA = Less OPM

      • I don’t feel sorry for you. If you are paying enough taxes to complain about it, at least you have a job. This country has become so narcisistic. Unless you are sitting on top of a mountain and not using the government subsidized internet, you are using OPM every day.

  2. old_blu – We really do need the right-wing neanderthals to shut their ignorant mouths and go away….that’s what we need.

    • John Meyer says:

      Excuse me, while I go and take a Obama, pass some pelosi, wipe my holder, with some reid. Left wingers socialist progressives are so predictable name call the right, instead go look in the mirror and consider moving to a country that better suits your kind, like maybe Iran.

      • Lorna Dee says:

        You are simply what this entire article describes with reference to those who would deny Affordable Care Act to be activated or voted on….decent healthcare should be and thankfully will be available. Why Ron Paul would advocate charity is beyond me and deny that same charitable giving by ALL Americans through taxes makes no sense. Across the board charity is possible with every taxpaying American assisting in the process. It is humane, decent and undeniably the ONLY sensible way to advance in our wealthy industrialized and supposedly ADVANCED nation. So….excuse the rest of us while you wipe your wimpy nose on those who would care for you despite your mentally deprived condition of selfishness and would no doubt be the first in line to accept Federal Assistance in any form that would benefit you including wiping your nose on someone else’s sleeve rather than your own.

      • STORMENHARD says:

        John Meyer you are a MORON!!!

      • metrognome3830 says:

        That’s a really clever reply John! You apparently dropped out of high school your sophomore year. It would be difficult to come up with a country that suits your kind.

      • old_blu says:

        @John Meyer— Don’t play with your john meyer while you’re in there.

      • karinursula says:

        I should not have to leave the country John Myer, to receive universal health insurance. Not a country that is supposed to be the richest country in the world. Grow up

  3. Sickos on the right will just say “let em die” they are just to lazy to get insurance – how pathetic can they be – we must have universal health care in this country.

    • ceverettham says:

      So much hate comes from the liberals, why?
      This is tragic to say the least. I hope everything works out for them. The right would not say let them die, they would say poor universal health care is not the answer. When the government starts to let everyones parents die due to decisions being made that it is not cost effective to treat the elderly, who most likely worked hard all of their lives and truly deserve to be helped, affordable care will have shown its true colors. I beleive everyone deserves to get treatment with decisions being made by family and doctors.

      • 4BusinessOnly says:

        Very well said.

      • Sure poor national health care is not the answer but no one has proposed national healthcare. The Healthcare Act passed by Republicans and Democrats then subsequently approved by the Supreme Court is a private pay system. People are dying while you guys bicker about contraception.

      • WhutHeSaid says:

        Perhaps less hate would come from ‘liberals’ (and others) if we didn’t have lying slugs coming out here to regurgitate that old ‘death panel’ whopper instead of addressing reality. If you are too greedy, cheap and cynical to care about people like this, then kindly refund my tax dollars that you’ve snorted up over the years. I don’t mind helping out people who can appreciate it, but greedy liars who guzzle the tax dollars of other people while squealing about how poor children without health insurance is ‘a choice’ deserve nothing but scorn.

        • ceverettham says:

          I pay taxes not spend tax dollars like liberals do. I am a lower middle class person who works 60 plus hours per week and proud to pay my share. I have never taken any government assistance because of something my family instilled in me its called pride.

          • WhutHeSaid says:

            Most people don’t ‘take government assistance’ — at least not in the form of direct assistance. So what? You still use the roads I pay for, the bridges I fund, the safety my taxes support, the education my property taxes fund, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on and on.

            Now then — will you still claim that you get nothing from others?

          • metrognome3830 says:

            Most able-bodied citizens of this country pay taxes. And all of us derive some benefit from those taxes. If you are lucky enough to not have to have used any government assistance so far, good. Are you guaranteeing that you never will? “Pride goeth before a fall,” ceverettham. You worked 60-hour weeks? So did a lot of other people. That doesn’t make you special. It certainly didn’t seem to instill any feeling of compassion in you for a fellow-citizen that has fallen on hard times? Are you part of the “let ’em die” crowd?

          • ceverettham says:

            I am not part of the let em die crowd believe me.

          • karinursula says:

            So you want that guy to die, because he has no insurance? Because he is in the hospital because he dared going to the
            movies? What kind of society have we become? Are we now
            so selfish that we blame this guy for being shot?

          • ceverettham says:

            I do not want anyone to die because they do not have health insurance. I think that doctors take an oath to save anyone they possibbly can. To bad everything is about money. It was not his fault tthat he was shot it is society’s fault.

      • RichardPatrock says:

        Your argument is based on denial of a quote that came about at the national level during a Republican primary event and placed in the article. Don’t you understand that most people can remember the critical information given in a two page article even after they have finished. Just because you forgot to do your homework doesn’t mean that others are quite that lazy in action or in thought. Here is the quote.

        “Their distress recalls the awful and revealing moment during the Republican primary debate in Tampa, FL last September, when members of the “conservative” Tea Party audience cried “let him die” about a hypothetical young man who falls catastrophically ill without health insurance.

        The most prudent act would be for the right to apologize for their cruel behavior in this regard and think deeply about their policies and their hunger for public death panels.

      • Joseph Hemphill says:

        right now those decisions are being made by insurance lackeys motivated by profit and greed, I would rather take my chances with a universal health care system and get the greed out.

      • joyscarbo says:

        And what “answer” do neo-conservatives, tea party goers and right wing republicans have for this couple? Government isn’t the answer….then what is? Let them go bankrupt? Let them live in the streets? Give them no healthcare at all so that Mitt Romeny and other multi-millionaires can have tax cuts?!

        And I work in healthcare. No one is going to start killing grandma and grandpa. That’s just stupid. But we do need to have some conversations about how we deliver healthcare to the most sickest and debilitated among us- and that’s primarily the elderly. It’s NOT to say that anyone is gonna put grandma down like Old Yeller. Quit singing that song because it’s not going to happen. But there is much work to be done on the case management and delivery of geriatric healthcare. There are many ways that evaluations, treatments and preventative care can be far more efficiently delivered to elderly patients. We don’t have to allow those who have catastrophic illnesses to lose everything- like these two young people.

        Make an intellegent statement instead of chirping the party lines. It’s VERY old and VERY unproductive.

      • You say “The right would not say let them die”; yet they did, on national TV. So much hate from liberals – you are just not paying attention. Then you have the audacity to referrance Ms. Palin’s DEATH PANELS. Thanks to Medicare which the right wants to get rid of – it is not our parents who are the most vulnerable.

        Yes there are problems with The Affordable Care Act but the right you support has no answers or plans to address the need for everyone in this country to have access to health care.


        • pattijo2 says:

          Please refrain from screaming on this site (using all capital letters). It is rude and does not make anyone respect your point.

          Plus, you are delusional as well. There is no planned “martial law”, progressives are not the devil, there are no death panels, there is no connection between James Holmes and President Obama.

        • STORMENHARD says:

          @J Your just another right wing MORON who’s looking to make some kind of conspiracy out of a very tragic incident…YOU ARE PATHETIC!!!!

        • metrognome3830 says:

          Well, here you go, ceverettham! This is the kind of nut-case your message resonates with. It should give you pause and take some time to educate yourself a little more.

      • highpckts says:

        I don’t know where this drivel comes from! Gee let me guess! The fanatic right wing GOP? I guess you will believe anything so I have some beachfront property in AZ to sell ya!! Why do you constantly pass this on when you haven’t bothered to check it out for yourself!

      • Hamilton Richards says:

        Since 1965, the government you so love to hate has been providing Medicare, which provides “treatment with decisions being made by family and doctors.” The nonsense about the government starting to “let everyones parents die due to decisions being made that it is not cost effective to treat the elderly” is right-wing propaganda, absolute lies swallowed whole by the gullible.

        • ceverettham says:

          I try to listen to both sides and make a decission from what I hear. It’s hard to know what is the truth anymore.

        • tokoloshi27 says:

          Ham: they may be “absolute lies” but the trouble is that we can’t know until the rest of the pieces of ACA are in place (and functioning); and by then it may be too late to fix or amend.

          Other nations that have similar systems have to practice cost efficiencies that result in committees that make these decisions that in effect are rationing. That is pretty well confirmed, how that of the U.S. may differ is presently unknowable.

          So count me as a concerned “gullible”.

          • pattijo2 says:

            We already have health care rationing. It’s call being too poor to pay to go to the doctor.

          • STORMENHARD says:

            Don’t you realize that for-profit insurance companies only profit when they deny health care services…75% of all bankruptcies in the US are due to medical expenses and the vast majority of these people were insured…This is unheard of in most other industrialized countries who offer universal health care to all of their citizens!

          • metrognome3830 says:

            No, it’s not “pretty well confirmed” that other countries make life-threatening decisions regarding health care. The complainers in these countries are complaining because the have to wait for care for non-threatening conditions. They are like people here who have the Cadillac health insurance plans or lots of money. They want to be taken care of immediately and anything that might slow the process makes them irritated. So they make up horror stories about universal health care.

      • Kari Hope says:

        ceverettham: Your comment is so bogus I’m not sure it deserves a actual rebuttal. In your little mind only the elderly “most likely worked harder” than this bright young man who was gunned down by a madman? How pathetic.

        • tokoloshi27 says:

          No-Hoper; you are correct, that was not an actual rebuttal -only a confirmation that you have an emotional reaction to ‘defend’ this article from what you perceived as an attack on ACA with a personal attack on a rational commenter.

          Is it so difficult to be civil?

        • John Meyer says:

          Kari……………Get about 50 more years under your belt and maybe you will have a perspective to draw from instead of just a mouth saying nothing

          • metrognome3830 says:

            John, I have 74 years under my belt and the only mouth I hear saying nothing is yours. Longevity doesn’t increase intelligence.

      • metrognome3830 says:

        We have the likes of John Meyer and Woody Woodpecker and you talk of hate from liberals. Now that is super spin! And then you go on to display your ignorance by spouting more right-wing propaganda — the latest version of Sarah Palin’s “death panels.” You believe “everyone deserves to get treatment with decisions being made by family and doctors.” You left out the for-profit insurance company that will make the final decision for you. Do you actually think they will listen to you? Or the doctors? I got some advice for you. You better have a large bank account.

        • ceverettham says:

          What is up with “you people” I guess in your world the only opinion that counts is yours. I don’t believe everything that I read. Do you? It is hard to seperate the lies from the truth. All one can do is try their best.

          • metrognome3830 says:

            No, it’s not just my opinion that counts. But your opinion doesn’t count with me. If you don’t believe everything you read why would you believe in Sarah Palin’s “death panels.” That is one of the most unbelievable positions I’ve ever heard. And what’s up with the “you people” crack. Now you are placing yourself in agreement with Ann Romney’s thoughtless comment? At least she doesn’t know better. What’s your excuse?

      • Justin Napolitano says:

        Veverettham. it was the right that said let them die; don’t try to rewrite history!
        By the way, your comments are truly ignorant. There is nothing in the ACA that takes away the rights of doctors or patients. Please stop repeating garbage you see on TV commercials sponsored by the right wing Republican Party.

      • Dave_dido says:

        Are you aware that the elderly have been covered by the government since 1965? Are you even aware that Medicare is a government program? Why hasn’t the government been euthanizing people under Medicare? Would you like the answer? The answer is that the government doesn’t have and has never had the intention to euthanize anyone. This bit about euthanizing grandma is all part of the stupid, make-believe narrative conjured up by the Republicans because they have absolutely nothing to offer working class Americans. It’s part of the same narrative that says President Obama is a Muslim, not a U.S. citizen, and that he hates America. It’s part of the narrative that says global warming is a fallacy promoted by an intellectual elite that really are socialist/communist and want to hurt America. The only ones who fall for this narrative are the uneducated who have never learned to read critically.

    • John Meyer says:

      Please advise when your contribution has been mailed, so sell your assets, and give big, just like Zippy and his demon-crats are doing on a daily basis, Right

    • I would never say let them die, just use your money wisely and buy some basic health insurance protection rather than go to a movie.

  4. Pam Buzbee says:

    the producers of dark knight should offer to pay these people’s bills ( all 50 of them) they collected enough mony that kniht and though they will be making a gift to a chrity most of these charitis never actually aid the people hurt first. They are usually preventative in nature

  5. John Meyer says:

    You wanted to see blood and gore, well I guess you got a tank full. Over the weekend it was said this is not a gun problem, its a sin problem……. spot on, a liberal has to blame anybody except the person in the mirror………… 1 step to this problem solution is OMG = Obama Must Go

  6. Wendy says:

    May God be with this family. We do need a national health care so I wish the democratics and republicans will come together on this issue. The Supreme court has spoken now they need to work with the bill.

    • ooooooooooo soooo sad, maybe if there was Obamacare they would have taken the pill paid for by tax payers and they would have stayed at home instead of going to an overcrowded movie house on opening day after midnite.

  7. tokoloshi27 says:

    When you try to demonize a group dedicated to fostering legal firearm safety and in doing so denigrate those who fear overweening-government with sycophantic bile; you run into some basic conundrums.

    Neither the ‘tea party’ nor the NRA are responsible for the delusional “thinking” of the system-created monster that opened fire on Friday morning. In fact it would be logical to point the finger of blame at the ‘media’ that has turned these loser outcasts into cult figures.

    Then Conason goes on to ridicule folks who subscribe to good works through charity. Come on, who’s really sick here? Conason and his ilk are at least as responsible for the irresponsible monster as the NRA.

    In fact if we use this example to disarm (and develop as victims) the general population, on the basis of this type of wrong-headed thinking; who will be to blame for the next (and there will be one regardless of any draconian ‘gun’ control legislation) massacre, except the hand-wringers who gain readership and a platform to display these insidious ideas?

  8. S says:

    Why would you ever consider getting pregnant if you have no health insurance. IRRESPONSIBLE.

    • Sigrid Smith says:

      Perhaps they couldn’t afford the pill. Perhaps their birth control method failed. Perhaps they are Christians of a sort that doesn’t believe in birth control. At any rate, they didn’t opt for abortion, which I personally would have done. They chose to do what the right would want them to do and now are being called irresponsible. We don’t know their reasoning and should not judge them. Everyone has a right at least to catastrophic health coverage.

    • metrognome3830 says:

      What does the ‘S’ stand for? Oh, never mind, I think I know.

  9. L says:

    Only uncivilized places don’t offer health care to all their citizens. That means the USA. It is disgraceful and way way past time we corrected this stupidity. All you folks who DO have insurance – well bully for you. And you actually feel that the rest of oour citizens should go without. You LIKE your premiums to go up to pay for the care for the rest? I’m so so glad you can afford it. But do NOT EVER claim to be a Christian. You are anything but. You are definitely a tea partier, a repugnican.

  10. Why would someone be without healthcare,,maybe they don’t like themself!

    • Joseph Hemphill says:

      it’s the “wealth” the kid is amassing working at target ( or walmart or any other entry level, low wage, no benefit job )

  11. This story highlights the urgent need for legislators to cooperate and coordinate to provide minimum healthcare for those without employer provided healthcare. It also provides evidence that they should cooperate and coordinate to provide Americans with protection against lunatics with assault weapons. Neither of these things are socialistic concepts, and both have been supported by both Republicans and Democrats in the past. Unfortunately, we now live in a political period of adversity, when the public interest is no longer of prime importance. Hopefully, we can get beyond this and resume a position of envy, before becoming a country of historical significance that simply fades away…

    • tokoloshi27 says:

      Frank, your good wishes for the Nation notwithstanding, I’ve got to put a couple of questions to you. First what is “minimum healthcare”, legislators are not medical practitioners – since you point to cooperation (given current national discourse), obviously you see this as a national mandate. Leaving aside the role of employers, who else should be ‘made’ responsible for an individual’s “healthcare”? It’s a very broad subject, potentially, making sure someone gets enough exercise, proper nutrition, etcetra before we even reach trauma and post-trauma medical care. Even if we limit the discussion to treatment of the innocent victims of crime, we do have a legal system (such as it is) to work out who may be financially responsible for failures of security and so on. One way or another someone will foot the bill for these medical expenses. Will the victims ever be restored to the condition prior to the crime? No, that’s a given because it is impossible – so to suggest the impossible and then blame “legislators” (or even the NRA & ‘tea party’ as Conason has done) is to perpetuate the insidious theme of the article.

      The country started talking back in the Clinton administration about “assault weapons”. Originally the reference was that some firearms were look-alike products of modern military automatic firearms (like AKs and NATO style M16 derivatives). The problem for folks like Conason (who are not factually detail-oriented) is they have cut corners to imply that fully automatic firearms are actually legal for sale in this country. You could purchase one, but it would take a very high level firearms license. What you can purchase is an auto-loading (not manual) firearm that only looks like an “assault weapon”. They are not actually suitable for military assaults, except in the broadest sense of the word. So to call for a ban on “assault weapons” is a bit of a red-herring. Proponents want to use the vague term to disarm the general population, depending on your point of view that might be a good thing or a bad thing. My opinion is that; should they accomplish this, only “law enforcement” and criminals would have fire arms. The general population would be entirely dependent on others for their personal safety (can anyone say TSA and any other initials?) with our personal responsibility being only the time and location of our victim-hood.

      Where “socialistic concepts” come in is that many European countries (of smaller size and often, more homogeneous cultures) have disarmed their populations. They lacked the fundamental right confirmed to Americans by our Constitution to not be disarmed by their Government. Those countries are usually left-leaning and thus the charge that this disarming is a socialistic tactic.

      • STORMENHARD says:

        @TOKO…FYI …Did you know Hitler expanded gun ownership to all German Citizens..except of course, to the Jews…Those socialistic societies you refer to are far safer countries to live in with much lower crime rates then we have here in the US…you can walk the streets at night without fear! You can’t say that for many of our US cities…

  12. annienoel says:

    The NRA if they were a credible civic organization would pay these bills. But they are not.

  13. Bigspender says:

    I can’t wait to read how Mitt Romney and the republicans will spin this story. We will undoubtedly learn that if the poor can’t obtain health insurance, well, its their own fault somehow and tough luck not to have been born rich.

  14. Ed says:

    The obama administration has done an excellent job of “hood-winking” the progressives, which seem to populate this site. Medical assistance for this unfortunate young family is already available through a number of services in their state. I don’t get the correlation between their specific need in the moment and “obama care”…since they will receive the medical assistance they require…regardless of what happens with this piece of poorly conceived legislation. It does strike me as odd that ABC tried to make this act of insanity the fault of the various Tea Party organizations, only to have mud on its face once the facts came out, some on this site are anxious to draw similar parallels here…. Just proves how little is actually known or appreciated about their various constitution-supporting , memberships. Tea Party folks are America’s rod of normalcy and balance…it’s engine of capital raising taxpayers. This great middle ground of taxpayers, although paying most of the nation’s bills and building on it’s work and judeo-christian ethics, is unfairly maligned. Tell ya what…all you liberal progressive goobers get the East coast, give the rest of the country to us starting at the Mississippi River…pay your own way and don’t come banging on the door when the well runs dry of our cash support.

    • WhutHeSaid says:

      Wow – what a lying bag of hot gas!

      First of all, that ‘poorly conceived’ health care program you deride was in fact conceived by The Heritage Foundation, Willard “Mitt” Romney and assorted Republican cohorts. Only now that a black President has used the idea(s) do the drooling bigots squeal like stuck pigs. That addresses your first self-serving whopper.

      Secondly, while it’s true that an ER cannot turn away a life-threatening medical emergency due to lack of insurance, that visit still has to be paid by somebody. As for those visits that do not involve life-threatening emergencies, it’s up to the hospital. That should address your second self-serving whopper.

      Last but certainly not least, that the ‘Tea Party folks are are Americas rod of normalcy and balance’ is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard out here in quite some time. It’s well known by the American public that the Tea Party is home to all manner of sordid bigots, nutbags and cheats — usually the EXACT type of person who would stick other people with their medical bills even if they could afford to pay. I can’t count the squeals of protest I’ve heard from these selfish deadbeats regarding paying their fair share of taxes, all while they are collecting public benefits hand over fist. Many of them are just the type of bitter old cheapskate that tools around in their Medicare-Hoveround bleating about some hungry child getting a few pennies for a school lunch. Just look at the nutty, bigoted liars that they support for office (e.g., Sharron Angle, Christine O’Donnell) and it’s easy to see just what a bunch of lunatics they are themselves.

      I’ll bet you’re a Tea-bagger and just as proud as a peacock over it, yes?

      • STORMENHARD says:


      • Ron Hetland says:

        Excellent work, WhutHeSaid. Every now and then someone like you will actually make the debate using facts and data rather than the regurgitations and claptrap spawned from the likes of FAUXNewts and their ilk. This is my first experience reading an apotheosis of the Tea Party. Holy hyperbole! Ed is drinking from some alien Kool-Aid vat. And what is really incredible, he believes it.

    • doop1 says:

      What medical assistance are they getting? So long as you’re pretending to know. They’re not going to be poor enough for medicaid.

      This is generally the last answer of conservatives on the coverage crisis– denial.

  15. Seriously, it is disgusting for these poor people to be victimized twice–first as victims of a madman who had easy and ready access to horrible weapons, and then as victims of our heartless health care system.

    Their story is the story of a country that no longer seems to value compassion.

  16. Rosanna says:

    I previously worked in the group (employer) health insurance industry for many years. I was responsible for shopping around for an employer (client) to get them the best possible health care plan as cheap as possible at each renewal. Each year, the insurance company would increase that client’s health care premiums even though their group had a fairly good claims record. It was very frustrating trying to explain this to a client who couldn’t understand why their premiums kept going up. Here are the reasons (implied) I was given by the insurance rep I was working with: 1. The group’s plan is too good (rich), and we can’t afford to let them keep it so we need to “encourage” them to go to a newer plan which costs less but has less benefits, and more out of pocket costs borne by the insured. 2. Our administrative costs have increased (read: our CEOs need more millions to live on).

    I just received a partial refund of my 2011 healthcare premium (equal to one month) because under the ACA, an insurance company has to refund partial premiums if it did not meet the 80/20 rule where they used at least 80% of premiums collected towards actual health care. That tells me the insurance companies don’t really need that much money to operate, and since most of the administrative duties of insurance claims processing is done by the employees of the insurance and not the CEO, why are they claiming that administrative costs so high? And to get a better “bottom line” figure, they lay off the employees who actually do the job instead of scaling back how many more millions the CEO gets. Everyone would be able to afford their own health care if the insurance companies would just use common sense instead of greed. And that same point goes for all companies, not just insurance companies. I don’t have a problem with the CEOs /companies making a lot of money in their position, if the company can afford to do so, but if you have to lay off employees in order to afford keeping up with CEOs salaries/bonues, then something is askew in their thinking.

  17. highpckts says:

    Oh my God! You aren’t any saner than the shooter and you vote??

  18. My prayers and condolences go out to the victims of this tragedy and their families. Let’s ensure that we place the blame where it squarely belongs: On the gunman and on the asinine policies of the movie theater!

    I’m sorry for their loss and suffering. They will receive many donations, of that I am sure. However, the lawsuit that will be filed on their behalf against the cinema company for their “No handguns allowed policy” and lack of security will more than compensate them for their actual costs.

    Every state, under the Medicaid Program, has funds to pay for the care that they will require. The problem is that people like this reporter are more concerned with getting a political message out that they ignore the reality that safety nets already exist to help this young couple.

    If you really think that the governor of Colorado is going to allow any of the victims of this tragedy to get stuck with a huge bill, then you are delusional.

    Gun control only helps criminals. Point of fact: No one in the audience had a gun to protect themselves against a heavily-armed CRIMINAL who does give a spit about ANY LAW, let alone a gun control law. All those helpless, unarmed victims had their defenses taken away by theater policy (gun control).

    The only gun control required is the ability to hit your target. Get a gun, get trained, and be ready to protect yourself. Ten people shooting back at the gunman would have changed the outcome dramatically!

    Are you counting on the police to help you? Well, they got to the theater within 90 seconds of the first 911 call. By that time, over 70 people had been killed or injured by the gunman, and the shooting was already over.

    When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Wake up, America!

    • WhutHeSaid says:

      What?! With a post as ridiculous as yours I have to wonder what the ‘Mba’ stands for. Could it be ‘Me buy arms’ or ‘More better answer’?

      For your information, the shooter was wearing body armor. Show me a person who believes that 10 people shooting at a well-armed, armored and homicidal nut in the middle of a crowded theater could produce anything but a bigger tragedy and I’ll show you an imbecile.

      • tokoloshi27 says:

        Whut; body armor is not invulnerability. The “nut” skated out when he had a misfire issue, so that speaks to his fortitude. Self-defense is rarely pretty, but if only one person had stood up to the monster, we would be having an entirely different discussion now.

    • metrognome3830 says:

      You are absolutely right, Randall. Ten people shooting back would have changed the outcome dramatically. The toll of death and injury could easily have been doubled.

    • JohnDoner says:

      You state: “Ten people shooting back at the gunman would have changed the outcome dramatically!” In the darkness of the theater and with all the pandemonium, without doubt the original shooter would not be the only “target”. Several of the vigilantes would undoubtedly have been mistakenly targeted by the other vigilantes!

  19. oooh yes the consumption of Kleenex goes thru the roof. They went to a movie, no force. They went after midnite, again no force. They have no health insurance coverage, no force, just simple stupidity. How do they expect to pay for the birth, possible complications for mother and/or baby? OPM as Danny deVittop says. Irresponsable to live without at least basic coverage. Why should the taxpayer dish out 2million for his treatments? Same goes for the mother who went after midnite to an adult movie (PG16) with a 6 year old girl. Why sould others feel sad or even guilty. But as judge Judy will hear “I am a single mother” I must have more rights and compassion…
    Not from me.

  20. yes but do not follow the Streisand, Baldwin & Co crowd, they are still here because they could not find anything better

  21. AuntySemantic says:

    Too bad you buried the lede in the second graph.

  22. montanabill says:

    In his usual insufferable fashion, hate monger Conason demonizes rather than using his space to simply promote help for those who need it. First, Ron Paul followers are libertarians, not ‘tea party’. Second, Conason is actually promoting the kind of help that the tea party embraces, people helping people and not sitting back waiting for government to do it. There is absolutely no guarantee that any insurance that this couple could have afforded under ACA would have been sufficient to cover all the costs this tragedy has and will impose on them. It is far more likely that with insurance coverage, their plight would not have been publicized and there would be little in the way of people to people contributions to cover any insurance shortfall.

    • daniel bostdorf says:

      Mr. Conason s expressing righteous indignation, not hate mongering.

    • JohnDoner says:

      Montanabill states: “There is absolutely no guarantee that any insurance that this couple could have afforded under ACA would have been sufficient to cover all the costs this tragedy has and will impose on them.”

      An excellent reason for universal health care!

  23. The Affordable Care Act, while far from perfect, is a step in the right direction and when fully implemented in 2014 will help tens of thousands of Americans get the care they need without fear of going bankrupt. I think it is important to remember that ACA will also reduce the operating costs of our corporations and small business who currently spend as much as 45-50% in healthcare and overtime caused by absenteeism.
    Those whose reaction is to invite fellow Americans to leave the country if we oppose the subliminal right of the insurance industry to squeeze Americans of every cent we earn in exchange for substandard coverage should go on a trip abroad, preferably to Western Europe where longevity is higher than in the USA, infant mortality is lower, and the incidence of debilitating diseases is not as prevalent. There are, obviously, many factors for this, but preventive medicine stands high among them. Instead of childish retorts try to present a comprehensive argument. None of us have a magic wand, and our opinions are just that, opinions.

  24. cindygirl722 says:

    It is NOT National Health care we need……IT IS AFFORDABLE healthcare that young people like this couple can afford. That would be included in HIS work benefits but the companies are paying less and the employees are paying more. The insurance companies are becoming outrageous in their “packages” and not covering the costs of healthcare. THE HEALTHCARE providers are becoming more technical and costly to operate, thus the vicious circle of profit/expenses. WE NEED someone who is an economic expert to come up with a plan for this type of situation. Our advances we have made in all walks of life have ended up costing us more money, and we are unable to earn more due to the imbalance in all the government and private profit vs distribution ethics. JBA

    • ObozoMustGo says:

      Cindy… If you want lower costs health insurance, you only need to look at the efficiency and low cost of the auto insurance market and auto repair industry. What we have now is NOT “health insurance” but prepaid healthcare where most of us bear the brunt of the few high cost consumers instead of bearing the risks of our own personal health habits. Your car insurance is based almost exclusively on your personal risk profile and history, allowing for geography and type of car you drive. It does not pay for every oil change or new breaks or maintenance. It does pay for the big bills that you could not afford if you had to. And, there is almost NO government involvement in it. That’s why it’s highly competitive, efficient, low cost, and widely available.

      Have a nice day!

      • daniel bostdorf says:

        Auto insurance has absolutely, positively no relationship to health insurance for people.

        I believe you have some sort of obsessive-compulsive complex always trying to attack President Obama. Your ‘obozomustgo pen name says it all.

        You are showing no respect for the Presidency, which in my opinion, is unamerican.

        post your real name and quit hiding.

        • ObozoMustGo says:

          danny… Re: insurance: The economic principles that govern human behavior and industry are not suspended just because it’s human healthcare instead of autocare. They are they same. Despite your emotional attachment to the leftist nutjob fantasy of socialized medicine, the facts are the facts.

          Do you think that autocare would be cheaper if insurance paid for your oil changes, and the government regulated the crap out of the industry? Answer honestly.

          Finally, I do have respect for the Office of the Presidency, but no respect for a man that does not respect American traditions, culture, or values. Barack Hussein Obozo is much more like Castro than he is like George Washington. Sorry, but true!

          Have a nice day!

  25. ObozoMustGo says:

    Off topic, but important, because The Memo will NEVER cover this since they are an arm of the Obozo campaign propaganda machine…..

    Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA), Chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, on Monday said the White House appears to be responsible for leaking classified national security information.

    ‘‘I think the White House has to understand that some of this is coming from their ranks,’’ Feinstein said at a World Affairs Council forum, according to the Associated Press (AP).

    Obozo will sell out American security for his own reelection bid. For all American’s sake, Obozo Must Go!!!!!!

    Have a nice day!

    • daniel bostdorf says:

      What the heck does your post have to do with Holmes, his family and affordable health care?

      Where are the moderators?

    • metrognome3830 says:

      Well, now there’s several of you off topic. I know you have to get in your licks where you can, OMG, but if you follow John you are going to be way out in right field.

      I almost said left field, but I caught myself in time. I don’t want you playing MY position.

      Have a nice day!

      • ObozoMustGo says:

        Hi Metro! Agreed, a little off topic but what the hell… every now and again the leftist hornets nest needs a little stirrin up! Dontcha think? 🙂

        Have a nice day!

  26. totenkatz says:

    Life is tough and unfair and bad things happen and we need to live with the decisions we make. Too many Americans want to make bad or questionable decisions and then want the government to bail them out when things go wrong/bad. I wish this couple well and may my contribution help them along the way.

  27. Lorna Dee says:

    What makes you believe that Affordable Care Act will not address caring for the elderly. I’m elderly (70). I am single since my mid-50’s through divorce. I was denied treatment via private insurer (Blue Cross Blue Shield) for 4 health problems via their required waivers in order to get insured after losing employer benefits and having to go on my own. It cost me over $400 a month insurance and out of pocket expense for those ailments I had waivers on. Tell me how well you are doing? I don’t believe charity would have benefited me and am thankful for government program via Medicare which is deducted from my SS benefits but costing me less than private insurance despite still having secondary private plan which is also deducted from my SS benefits. Being elderly is certainly no picnic but when people like you talk as if you care it would sure be nice if you would take time to truly listen to those who live “the facts of life” in this area. I am a liberal, progressive, and currently Independent voter who despises those who call liberals “hateful” when, in fact there is more selfish, lying, hateful dialog spewed forth from the mouths of conservatives whose wallets squeak from their uncharitable devious attachment to their wealthy corporate legislators who also mirror their same attitude. Conservatives have had their day and the so-called liberals you despise are tired of your selfish lies. Liberals have never been afraid to care for others through their hardworking tax dollars. What is wrong with you is that you have a convoluted theory which does not hold water in this discussion with regard to who really cares for others.

  28. Lorna Dee says:

    PS My comment here is primarily meant to be addressed to those who call liberals “hateful”.

  29. I dont want this coming off sounding bad or wrong. 1 I hate repuklicans. 2 Aside from the horrific shooting in CO why are they having a child if they have no health care ? If you can’t properly care for a child you should not be having children

  30. daniel bostdorf says:

    Holmes is suffering from a brain chemistry disorder that causes psychosis. There are many forms of psychosis that caus both viloent and non-violent bevaiour. Psychosis a is loss of contact with reality. It is a psychiatric disorder that is marked by delusions, hallucinations, incoherence, and distorted perceptions of reality.

    Holmes reality is distorted. It gives the false appearance of knowing right from wrong when it doesn’t.

    Epilepsy is treated with medication. Over a hundred years ago, people with epilepsywere locked in attics or stoned to death and considerd possessed. We knwo better due to the science of medicine.

    Mental illness can be successfully treated with medication. It is not evil. Early screening of all males between the ages of 18 and 25 is crucial to prevent the psychosis from getting worse eto the point of what is called a “psychotic break.” This is what Holmes looks like now.

    We need to have compassion and understand that people with brain chemistry disorders that cause bizarre behavior was not chosen by the psychotic individual.

    We need to stop stigmatizing people and labeling them as psychos or madmen.
    They should never be given a death sentence. They need institutionalization, and medication for the rest of their lives. Those with extremely violent forms of psychosis need permanene institutionalization.

    You want to know what real hell is?
    Try living with a brain chemistry disorder that makes you psychotic.

    It is time to stop the hatred.

    What would Jesus do? Love him.

  31. Ed says:

    Well, no christians in the tea party and even fewer in the repubs.

    • daniel bostdorf says:

      The issue has to do with compassion for the wounded and pregnant as Mr. Conason writes about. In addition to the psychotic Holmes that if he had access to the proper mental health care before he had a psychotic break, this mass killing would not have happened.

      The problem is that we have created a certain citizenry in our society that reaches for the gun and pulls the trigger to solve legitimate socio-economic problems.

      It is a “bumper sticker mentality” that wants no thoughtful or reasonable civil discourse.

      It has absolutely no sense of history and is condemend to repeat it.

      It is a highly uneducated mindset that can not relate to those of us that seek knowledge, facts, and a civil, logical dialogue.

      Just remember what happened to Germany in 1935 when their version of “The Teaparty” came to power and installed facism.

      We need to reject the politics of hatred, violence and intolerence that has created the whole national polarization of thought.

      Mr. Conason, continue to point out to us your righteous indignation on these matters of global importance, as you have done you whole career.

  32. WestUMom says:

    I hope they do collect $2 million, and it’s too bad we can’t force the gun lobby to pay for their injuries.

  33. ObozoMustGo says:

    Joe Conason… useful idiot of the Obozo campaign propaganda machine. Since you are bringing up the the issue of health insurance, I will repost a response I had written a while back for you all to read and learn some common sense on why healthcare costs so much.

    We do not have health “insurance” in America. We have socialized prepaid healthcare. Insurance is something you buy that covers big risks and your premium is assessed based predominantly on your risk profile. Typical insurance markets operate quite efficiently. Health insurance is HIGHLY regulated and the government is involved is every aspect of it. Further, every state regulates their own health insurance preventing national competition and forcing out competitors. If you want health insurance and healthcare costs to come down, it’s simple. Use the car insurance model. Consider this:

    Car Insurance – Car Insurance is what we call REAL insurance. It doesn’t pay for your maintenance, breaks, tires or gasoline. It only pays when you have a catastrophic loss. You bear a little burden in your pre-agreed upon deductible, they pick up the rest. The market is quite efficient and cost effective. If you are a bad driver with higher risks, then you pay more. Good driver, low risk, low premium. Very simple.

    What do you think the cost of car repair and car insurance would be if they also had to pay for your oil changes, breaks, tires, routine repairs, and gasoline? Then, place the industry under the watchful eyes of government bureaucrats, whose bureaucracy must be paid for somehow. Add to that, the fact that both State and Federal governments must be involved in oversight and the costs of the “oversight” increase even more. Every repair results in a mountain of paperwork by the mechanic’s growing administrative staff so that the customer can only pay $5 for his oil change and the mechanic will have to file papers to collect the other $25. When he does, the insurance company disputes his charge for the oil change saying that it is not “ordinary and customary”. So his admin has to fight it to collect. This raises the cost of doing business and the mechanic now learns that he must charge $45 for the oil change to cover costs. Repeat this over millions of transactions per day across America, and now you begin to understand how destructive our system really is.

    As well, lets say that it’s not “fair” that “rich” people can afford more and better maintenance on their cars. Government MUST address this imbalance. They set up new bureaucracies and agencies and programs to insure that the “poor” have access to auto insurance that pays for all of their auto care. Now they must pass those costs on to everyone else, even those that don’t want or own a car. Does this sound familiar?

    I could go on and on and on and on with this example, but any reasonable thinking human being NOT committed to socialist ideals would understand that under the scenario of making auto insurance and auto repair follow the same model as government controlled health care, costs of auto insurance and auto repair would necessarily SKYROCKET!

    Does ANYONE seriously believe that auto maintenance or auto insurance would be cheaper? You cannot say so with a straight face. Sorry. You cannot.

    Hope this clarifies some things for you.

    Have a nice day!

    • Diogenes67 says:

      Obozo? Are you in middle school?

      • daniel bostdorf says:

        Again…until Obozomustgo stops hiding underneath his anonymous postings, his complete hatred for the President forces me to assume that he is a poser and an operative for Romney.

        He makes absolutely no sense with his bizarre diatribe analogy about car verses people insurance.

        This is nothing more than a partisan bitter and sharply abusive denunciation attack message.

        This has nothing to do with socialism.

        This has to do with Obozomustgo trying to force feed us nonsensical analogies in an effort to simply demean the Presidency of this country and that of President Obama.

        As I stated before, it is a highly uneducated mindset that can not relate to those of us that seek knowledge, FACTS, and a civil, logical dialogue….

        I simply want to be free from anonymous operatives of the far right fringe that, in my opinion, I believe Obozomustgo is.

        He has every right to post here. He has every right to make him or herself look ridiculous too.

        That is the beauty of our Constitution. Free speech allows us to see what “the fringe” is really up to.

    • metrognome3830 says:

      Comparing health care to car maintenance? OMG, that’s unworthy of you. Give it some more thought. You can’t solve everything through ecoonomics. Auto insurance companies do have “death panels.” If your car is too expensive or too old to repair, they “total it out.” Are you suggesting that method for health care? I suppose, economically speaking, that could lower health care expenses, but I’ll let you propose that, not me.

      Have a nice day!

      • ObozoMustGo says:

        Metro… my example is perfectly clear. The economics of human decision making and incentive apply equally to auto insurance and health insurance, and therefore the industries are exactly the same regardless if you call it “auto healthcare” or human healthcare. The concept is a 3rd party paying for my consumption of goods and services. No need to emotionalize it. If auto insurance paid for auto care, I would consume waaayyy more maintenance on my truck, especially if the perception was that it’s “free” or nearly free. So would everyone else. This is human nature. Add government oversight/overhead and now we have an upwardly spiraling cost rocket booster to the economics of the industry.

        Funny, just like Obozocare, they do have auto death panels. Interestingly enough, many of those cars are sold and then repaired and find their way onto used car lots or sent to other countries. Perhaps you are right, though. If we just killed everyone over 70, healthcare costs would come down. Sounds like the “whispered intentions” of those behind the scenes that support Obozocare. Unlike cars, you wont be repaired and sent back out.

        Have a nice night, Metro!

        • metrognome3830 says:

          Well, as to your last point, we don’t know that for sure. Some people believe in reincarnation, you know. I hope they are wrong. Once around is enough for me. As far as auto insurance and health insurance, you are right, in a completely no-nonsense business way. However, owning a car is optional. Many people function quite well without one. Being a live human, however, does require a reasonably well-functioning human body. There is no option. Some take better care of their bodies than others. Some are just lucky. That’s human nature also. As for killing everyone over 70, I want you to know I was just kidding. I’m over 70, so, being human and having a human nature, I would object strenuously to that plan. While I might think that people in DC are stupid, thoughtless and without common sense, I’m going to stop short of accusing them of those “whispered intentions.”

          Have a nice night yourself, OMG!

          • ObozoMustGo says:

            Metro… you crack me up! hehehehehehehehe… why do you think I picked 70? hehehehehehehehe 🙂 🙂 LOL

            That is correct. In a strictly business sense, they are identical markets. Certainly, I understand that a human component makes us feel diffferently and place more importance on the service of healthcare for ourselves as opposed to auotcare. But the economic incentives and consumer behavior and service provider behavior ARE in fact the same and follow the same principles. If we want to make healthcare MORE accessible, we can lower the costs by replicating the auto insurance /auto care model and get government OUT of the business of providing insurance or healthcare just like they are out of the auto insurance business. Some oversight and standards for public safety, of course, but otherwise hands off. For the most poor among us, I certainly don’t dispute that government can play a role either through vouchers or subsidized policies or something. We can debate that. But a government takeover and whole new bureaucracy is NOT going to accomplish either lower costs, more efficiency, or greater access. There is NO WAY in hell that it makes a lick of sense.

            I gotta run for the evening, Metro my friend. Going to meet up with a college buddy for dinner and beers.

            Have a great night, my friend! 😉

          • metrognome3830 says:

            Hi OMG, I didn’t see much commentary from you today. You didn’t overdo on those beers, did you? Beer is healthy if you don’t overdo.

            Speaking of health (how about that clever segue?) I don’t know that there is NO WAY we can’t have a universal plan. Other countries do it. It doesn’t mean that government takes over our health care, they take over the payments. The question is, would the government, as payor, be more restrictive or more cubersome than private insurance. Maybe, maybe not. With government, we can vote the bastards out of office. With private insurance companies we just have to go along with what they want or change insurance companies. That is certainly not efficient, at least for the insured. As far as the government telling us what treatment we can get or what medications we can receive, the insurance companies have been doing that for years. Ask someone who had to hire a lawyer and threaten a lawsuit to get coverage for surgery for a child when the insurance company reneged after the fact and decided that the surgery was cosmetic. My daughter was born with only part of an ear. The surgeon did just enough surgery to give her enough ear to hold up a pair of glasses. Nothing drastic. Two weeks after the surgery the insurance company calls me and tells me they have now decided that it was cosmetic surgery and it wasn’t covered. They were dumping the whole $2,000 bill back in my lap. I talked to everyone at the insurance company who would come to the phone. I reminded them that they had OKed the surgery. No movement. Now $2000 wasn’t out of my reach, but by then I was REALLY angry. My first impulse was to go to the insurance headquarters and find the highest official there and beat the living bejesus out of him. (I was much younger then). But, instead I contacted a lawyer and the whole matter was settled after one letter from the lawyer. But, the damn lawyer cost me almost as much as the surgery.

            Well, as you say, it is a topic for debate. I would like to do more research on countries like Canada, UK, and others. Even European and Central American countries seem to have excellent health care that is less expensive than the US. I would like more reliable information on why that is. A couple of years ago, I was on a Rhine River cruise in the Netherlands and Belgium and developed an infected foot. Being a Type II diabetic, such an infection can be quite serious. A member of the ship crew took me to the ER in Arnhem. There they examined me, did a scan of the entire leg to rule out Deep Vein Thrombosis, (DVT) bandaged the wound, checked all my other vital signs and prescribed an antibiotic for me. Being out of the country, my Medicare insurance didn’t cover me. I paid a total of less than $400 for that visit. Venture a guess as to what it would cost in the US. I would guess about 10x that. And the facilities at Arnhem were equal to any in this country. I’m just sayin’ . . . just maybe there’s a better way.

            Have a great evening!

          • ObozoMustGo says:

            Hi Metro, my friend. You should be back from your walk by now… 6:15 your time. And yes, I was busy yesterday. Today even more. I’ll probably just go to the fresh articles, throw a few quick molotov cocktails, and bolt. No essays today.

            Sorry to hear about your daughter’s ear. My 2nd son was born with an extra thumb. Had it removed at his first b’day. In hindsight, probably should have left it on. Can you imagine the junk balls he could throw as a pitcher with an extra thumb? hehehehehehehe.

            Re: denial of coverages…. it is 100% true Metro that Medicare has a much higher rate of decline than any major private provider out there. If you think about it, if you are giving over the obligation to pay for services that you consume, then that party that is paying must have some say over what they are paying for. Correct? And, if you really want to know the differences in medical care from the US to Canada or UK, compare the number of MRI machines in ONE state in the US to ALL of Canada or UK. Compare the waiting times for getting MRI’s or CAT Scans or seeing a specialist. It’s not even close. The real solution to improving access, reducing costs, and improving quality for ANY product or service is the free market. Healthcare included. There is no question about that. The problem, quite frankly, is the left’s addiction to the fantasy that a centralized and controlling government is the solution to any problem. Clearly it is not. Further, almost every single medical innovation that has been developed on planet earth in the last 100 years has been done by Americans in our free market system. The profit motive is the single greatest motive for innovation and efficiency there can be. And in a free market system, they are better able to accomodate and absorb those times when services cannot be paid for. This is not to say that we should abandon the poorest and neediest among us, but there are much better ways to accomodate these needs without centralizing the control in politicians and bureaucrats greedy hands.

            I have to run. Already running late and behind.

            Have a great day!

          • metrognome3830 says:

            Good Morning, OMG. It’s interesting that you mention the number of MRI machines or CAT Scanners in the US. As for Canada, they don’t have the population we have so they would not have the need for as many machines. Also, some of us believe that perhaps the US has too many MRI and CAT scanners, which leads to overuse in order to pay for these very expensive machines. Of course, that leads to another subject, the litigious nature of US patients. Which leads to the overuse of these machines. And useless tests and exams that are done simply as an ass-covering procedure by the doctors. No offense to the doctors. They need to do it in self-defense. So I think we probably agree that many trial lawyers have become quite wealthy bringing suits against doctors. Which drives up the cost of malpractice insurance. And all of this crap falls right back down on the patients. When I think about all the problems with our healthcare system and what is involved in trying to solve them, I think I don’t want to think about it any more today. The only creature that has it right is Pogo, when he said, “We have met the enemy and he is us!” Long live the Free Market Health Care System!

            I hope you made up time, OMG. Have a great day!

          • ObozoMustGo says:

            Dont get me started on the lawyers Metro!

            What’s the worst thing about a bus load of lawyers going off a cliff?
            One empty seat!

            Have a great day!

    • WhutHeSaid says:

      It’s fitting that you chose to use ‘bozo’ in your moniker, because you are the clown of the entire forum.

      Just for a moment, I’ll pretend that you aren’t a rabid bigot whose primary goal in life is hating on President Obama because he’s black and you hate it. Long enough, mind you, to address your latest argument, which has become eerily lucid by chance (although still dead wrong).

      Health Insurance akin to Auto Insurance? Exactly the same principle? Are you typing all this with a straight face?

      First, autos are inanimate objects. We don’t need or want as much regulation on auto insurance or the auto industry in general as we do in health care. Why? Well, for starters we don’t really care what grimy old wrench a mechanic uses on our cars, but you bet your ass that we care whether a doctor re-uses hypodermic needles. Since we care about it we impose regulations on it, otherwise some unscrupulous clown (hint, hint) would try to save a buck by cutting corners to the detriment of the patient.

      Second, all people have health care needs. It may be more or less than others, but all have them. People cannot opt out of illness or injury, but they can opt out of auto expenses by taking the bus or walking.

      Third, quite some time in the distant past our ancestors (those with the bigger brains, anyway) found that by banding together and assisting one another we could ensure a better survival rate for our species. I’ll admit that in your case, Bozo, this may seem to be of questionable value, but for most it still holds true.

      So stop trying to equate tires and gasoline with health care expenses. I don’t remember my insurance ever paying for tennis shoes or beer either. One reason that health care is expensive is that it’s important. Another is that private insurers and health companies will try to make as much money as possible – even to the point of fixing prices (which has happened). But the real point that will prove you a lying sycophant is this:

      Medicare, a single payer government-run health option, is vastly more efficient that the private alternatives. Medicare overhead expenditures are about 2 percent. The current Affordable Care Act law allows private companies up to 20 percent overhead before they must by law pay refunds to their customers.

      So in reality, if you weren’t a lying slug but were actually concerned with cost you’d opt for a single payer option. Of course you won’t, and we know why.

      You may now return to your hating on the black man in the White House.

      • ObozoMustGo says:

        Whut… you lying racist bigot! Two points:

        1) Who would I vote for? A white liberal? or a Black conservative? ANSWER THE QUESTION!

        2) Economic principles don’t suddenly suspend themselves just because you say so. While there may certainly be a more emotional component on an individual level for human healthcare as opposed to auto healthcare, this does preclude the model for the industries working in exactly the same way. If auto healthcare worked like healthcare, it would be prohibatively expensive. There is NO question to this fact.

        By the way… Medicare more efficient?????? Bwwwwaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Bwwwwaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Bwwwwaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Bwwwwaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
        ROFLMAO!!!!!! Bwwwwaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

        Truth—> Medicare denies MORE claims than private insurers do. By far! And, more and more doctors are refusing to take Medicare any longer because they lose money providing the services. This is NOT efficiency, it’s government ROBBERY!

        You leftist nutjobs are mostly so stupid because what you don’t realize is that the whole theory you all depend upon rests on the shoulders of Karl Marx and the phony criticism of profits. I constantly see you idiots complaining about evil “profits” in healthcare as if they are the problem. Classic Marxist “theory” would lead one to think that if you take the profit out of the system, then costs go down. NOTHING is further from the truth IN ANY system ever so devised. In fact, it is the opposite that is true. This is where you leftist nutjobs and useful idiots go wrong. Still more belief in things are just not so. Too bad!

        Have a nice day!

        • WhutHeSaid says:

          I’m guessing that you would vote for Christine O’Donnell if you could.

          Medicare doesn’t deny policies as private insurers do, nor do they ‘drop’ their customers if their claims start getting expensive. Private insurers can avoid those claims they don’t want to cover by dropping the customer altogether – thus those claims will not be counted.

          In addition to this, doctors often refuse to accept private insurance companies as well:

          “The percentage of physicians accepting new patients did not vary significantly between 2005 and 2008, ranging from 94.2% to 95.3%. Physician acceptance of new Medicare patients dropped from 95.5% in 2005 to 92.9% in 2008 (P = .01). Physicians in private practice were largely responsible for the declining acceptance of Medicare patients as determined in stratified analyses (95.5% in 2005 vs 93.0% in 2008; P = .01) (eTable).

          There was a more pronounced decline in physician acceptance of patients with private noncapitated insurance (93.3% in 2005 vs 87.8% in 2008; P < .001). A smaller percentage of adult primary care physicians accepted private noncapitated patients over the study period (97.3% in 2005 vs 89.9% in 2008; P < .001). " By Tara F. Bishop, MD, MPH; Alex D. Federman, MD, MPH; Salomeh Keyhani, MD, MPH
          Archives of Internal Medicine, June 27, 2011

          The facts remain: Medicare overhead runs 2 percent, which is by far more efficient than private insurers. And guess what else? Medicare customers actually LIKE their insurance plan — just ask them.

          Cheaper, well-liked, accepts everyone — what is your excuse for opposing such attributes. Oh yes, I almost forgot: Obama is still black.

          • ObozoMustGo says:

            Whut… you lying racist bigot!

            Who would I vote for? A white liberal? or a Black conservative?

            ANSWER THE QUESTION! You can do it. Come on. I know it’s hard for you to be honest, but give it a shot. Prove that you’re not a liar!

            Have a nice day!

          • mysay500 says:

            What is wrong with you?

        • mysay500 says:

          Are you America’s next James Holmes?

    • karinursula says:

      You Sir, are an Idiot

    • daniel bostdorf says:

      Again…until Obozomustgo stops hiding underneath his anonymous postings, his complete hatred for the President forces me to assume that he is a poser and an operative for Romney.

      He makes absolutely no sense with his bizarre diatribe analogy about car verses people insurance.

      This is nothing more than a partisan bitter and sharply abusive denunciation attack message.

      This has nothing to do with socialism.

      This has to do with Obozomustgo trying to force feed us nonsensical analogies in an effort to simply demean the Presidency of this country and that of President Obama.

      As I stated before, it is a highly uneducated mindset that can not relate to those of us that seek knowledge, FACTS, and a civil, logical dialogue….

      I simply want to be free from anonymous operatives of the far right fringe that, in my opinion, I believe Obozomustgo is.

      He has every right to post here. He has every right to make him or herself look ridiculous too.

      That is the beauty of our Constitution. Free speech allows us to see what “the fringe” is really up to.

    • pattreid says:

      Just lovin’ the r.w.n.j.’s who call everything “socialized”. Clearly ignorant of what “socialized” means. You state, “We have socialized prepaid healthcare.” That is so wrong as to be laughable. “Socialism is an economic system characterized by social ownership, control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy,[1] and a political philosophy advocating such a system. “Social ownership” may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or even autonomous state enterprises.” Socialized anything MEANS public ownership. So exactly what part of our insurance system is government- or publicly-owned? Can you enlighten us as to the MEANS of production owned by the government? Having laws governing the industry does not constitute ownership.

      You also gloss over the activities of the states in our current situation. Obama’s gotta go, you say, but Obama is not the problem. It’s the states that regulate most of our health insurance market, and hospitals, clinics and all the rest. There are very few Federal laws pertaining to health care. That’s a huge part of the problem. If I buy my insurance in NJ, but go to Florida on vacation, have the misfortune to get sick or be hurt in an accident, I’m facing the possibility of having no coverage at all in that state. Think on that a bit. You believe it’s a good idea to be a captive of your state due to your insurance?

      I realize you think you’re clever and that you’ve hit upon the best analogy ever but, no-o-o-o, it’s weak and sad, exposing your lack of comprehension of the issues we face. It’s rather pathetic to compare auto insurance with health insurance. Cars do not equal humans. You don’t die if your car is in a fender-bender or gets hit by a runaway shopping cart, or has a tree fall on it. But if you don’t get regular health checkups/maintenance, you will in fact die sooner than those who have access to health care maintenance.

      Furthermore, your auto insurance is not tied to your job. If you lose your job or change jobs, you still have your same auto insurance. But if you lose your job, you lose your health care. Purchasing personal health care is way more expensive than being part of a group (economies of scale). Additionally, if you find yourself in Florida and you have an accident, all you have to do with your auto insurance is demonstrate that you do still in fact live in the state of purchase, regardless of where you travel to.

      Every developed country in the world, and even many undeveloped countries “get” that there are many reasons for universal health care:
      1. A healthy population is more productive than an unhealthy population. Many view health care as a human right, and understand that it benefits the country as well.
      2. Economies of scale: you can negotiate better prices when representing larger groups of people and amortizing costs over healthy and unhealthy populations.
      3. You don’t lose medical coverage when you lose or change jobs.
      4. Countries w/social health care do not permit advertizing for health care companies (what for? It’s state run), and they don’t run ads for pharmaceuticals. This alone is worth billions in savings.
      5. There are no extravagant salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes for execs. No shareholders, no profit goals required. Further savings in billions.
      6. Medicare overhead is 1.5%-2% while private insurance companies have operating costs that run between 12%-30%. So, for those who claim that government-run anything is de-facto poorly run, Medicare exposes that lie.

      It’s not about “fair”, it’s about what’s smart and what’s right. Even in countries with socialized medicine, it’s still possible for the wealthy to purchase cadillac policies for such things as private hospital rooms, internet and TV inclusion, dietary upgrades, etc. Some of this policies will support “alternative” treatments, including message, chiropractic and acupuncture. You can still show off your wealth if you wish, or get the superior perks that your importance is so deserving of.

      Last but not least: Obamacare as was passed is a gift to the insurance companies. By bringing in more purchasers of insurance, the risk for the companies is spread over the healthy and the unhealthy. There will still be private insurance for all who want. Those that cannot afford it can resort to the new expanded Medicare. The way insurance companies operate now is by charging more for insurance because very few young and healthy people purchase insurance. So the insurance companies try to make up for that by denying “pre-existing conditions”. This leaves a lot of people uninsured, who then become a burden on the entire country because they cannot pay for their medical bills. So those costs are reflected in higher insurance rates and escalating costs for hospital and medical. As I say, it’s not about being “fair”, it’s about being smart.

      • ObozoMustGo says:

        pattreid.. Thank you for a well thought out response, even if somewhat misguided.

        You defininition of socialism, while maybe helpful to some, leaves out the reality that socialism IS the direction that you leftist nutjobs and Obozo want to take America. There are many degrees of socialism, but there is only one direction toward accomplishing it’s implimentation, and the left in America clearly wants to go in that direction.

        While I understand that healthcare is a more emotional issue, like I have said before, the economic principles between the health insurance/health care and auto insurance/auto care are EXACTLY the same. You pay a 3rd party on a regular basis to pick up most or all of your expenses when you incurr them. Plain and simple. That’s how it works. You guys on the left love to dramatize, but all the drama and emotion in the world does not change or suspend the simple principles of economic behavior.

        I find it somewhat puzzling how you guys on the left hold out Medicare/Medicaid as models of efficiency…….. HELLLLOOOOOOO!!!!! MCFLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IS THERE ANYONE IN THERE????????????????? The entire program is GOING BANKRUPT!!!! That’s not me saying it, that’s the damned TRUSTEES of the program! It absolutely cracks me up to hear you wackos claiming the success of bankrupt programs. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!! You are probably one of those Obozo zombies that believes his propaganda when he says that Solyndra was a success! Bwwwwwaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Bwwwwaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!!

        Sorry Pat, but that’s funny!

        The two areas that you make sense are in the fact that healthcare SHOULD be separated from employement AND there should interstate competition. Your example of not having coverage in FL is a silly one. I’ve never heard of a policy that does not cover emergency need from one state to the next. Doesn’t mean that there is not a rare example of this, just that it’s an outlier. Nice try, but no cigar. And your belief that removing “profit” from the system

        All this discussion about “collective” good health is nothing more than leftist double speak and utopian thinking. I dont give a damn about your health and I sure as hell don’t want you and your kind giving a damn about mine, thank you! I don’t want socialized medicine. I don’t want government mandated insurance. I don’t want you to pay for my care, and I don’t want for yours. My example of using the auto insurance and auto care models for health insurance and health care as a way to achieve competitiveness, cost reduction, and with both increased access is without a doubt the best way to go. I know you leftists don’t like this because of your neverending quest for bigger and bigger government and more and more government control of people’s lives, but too friggin bad. If you like socialized medicine, go somewhere else where they have it. But leave America alone and out of your grubby leftist hands!

        Again, thanks for the discussion, Pat. All kidding aside, I do appreciate it.

        Have a nice day!

    • mysay500 says:

      Is it possible that you don’t have a job and have a few mental problems of your own?

  34. howa4x says:

    This is our national shame. A for profit health care system that is out of reach for millions of Americans. the Tea pary chants of let them die is the social darwinistic mentality of the new republican party. You are either a winner, that is one to be rewarded with tax cuts and other benefits, or a looser like these people who are struggling but can’t seem to get up. The tea party using a preverse form of christianity thinks that Christ had it all wrong. They would do away with the government saftey net that has been there for many generations protecting the poor and down trodden like Jesus would have done, and instead want to throw the poor, which they have no use for, calling them parasites, onto an already over burdened system of scattered and unfunded non profits who really can’t survive without govt grants and are being over whelmed by a sea of humanity in neeed. It’s an out of sight out of mind mentality not shown on Fox and Friends. Mean while they want the supposed job creators to not only have economic rewards but want to free them from costly enviornmental regulations that actually protect their own air, water, and food. Protect their own children. The Tea party members are really greedy people who pretend to be evangelicals, and not smart enough to know that they are being used by everyone from Rush to the Kock bros. They want to take this country down a dark road.
    Do you really want to go with them?

  35. Sarah K. Weinberg says:

    Funny thing, all other developed nations (and some not-so-developed ones) manage to provide health care as good or better than in the U.S. Their “other people” still have plenty of money left. We tend to forget that if we were to tax ourseves to provide health care for everyone, we “responsible” people would no longer have to pay outrageous premiums to unpleasant health insurance companies bent on denying payment for any care we actually use. Americans are victims of unaffordable underinsurance, and it’s only going to get worse until we (finally) wake up and pay attention to the rest of the world on this issue.

    • Dave_dido says:

      Thank you, Dr. Weinberg. We need to hear from more compassionate doctors, healthcaregivers, and other professionals like yourself who can speak to the problem with experience. I myself am an insurance agent. Part of my income is derived from the sale of health insurance. I have been telling my customers for years to demand healthcare reform, even though it probably will mean a decrease in income for me when we eventually go to a single-payor system. I do it because I see so many people hurt financially and sometimes medically due to a hesitation to go to the doctor because of the cost. I hope we will hear from others with the expertise to address this issue intelligently.

  36. Sheila S says:

    This article saddens me for several reasons. 1-as if a national heath care system would work-being forced to purchase insurance when if you had the money you would get insurance anyway, 1 a-mandatory health insurance will be high premiums and even higher deductibles, put small employers out of business and drastically change our economy. 2-guns don’t kill people, people do. More people die from auto accidents or pharmaceuticals than guns every year. There are pages of government documents for recalled drugs due to horrible side affects and death. Ban cars or trucks? I think not. 3-our gov gives foreigners all sorts of aid-free medical, kid care, housing assistance, etc. but none for Americans-why not reverse these benefits and give to Americans having native countries care for their own? 4-Tea Party-ahhh, just because some idiots yell let them die, not many are like them. All parties, families, entities have these illiterate, mean people. Look at the government-we have a president who in himself, is an alien to this country, lied to get elected, makes deals with our foreign enemies-and is stupid enough to get caught at least once, introduces an American hating belief into our schools, and yet we don’t impeach him. You’ve seen people at ball games yelling to kill the ump or when a player gets hurt they cheer. Feel sad for them, not the group they are with. Look to the individual always, get the whole story to make an informed opinion. As a group, Americans have forgotten that and take the media and government’s word as gospel-the truth. DON’T, we will be sorry if you continue to.

    • daniel bostdorf says:

      Factually incorrect statement:
      ” 1 a-mandatory health insurance will be high premiums and even higher deductibles, put small employers out of business and drastically change our economy. ”

      You are missing the “actual verses potential argument by Aristotle:
      ” 2-guns don’t kill people, people do.”
      You have to actually have the gun before a person potentually uses it….

      More people die from auto accidents or pharmaceuticals than guns every year. There are pages of government documents for recalled drugs due to horrible side affects and death. Ban cars or trucks?

      ACTUAL: you must FORCE car and drug manufacturers to a higher level of public safety and enforce existing government regulation, particularly the FDA that authorizes the drugs….do ou recall that most members of the FDA drug aproval process are in te pockets of the multi-national big pharmaceuticals?
      RESULT: reduction of car and drug deaths

      Factually incorrect statement:
      ” 3-our gov gives foreigners all sorts of aid-free medical, kid care, housing assistance, etc. but none for Americans-”

      APPEAL TO COMMON PRACTICE ARGUMENT (age old deflection from facts)
      ” 4-Tea Party-ahhh, just because some idiots yell let them die, not many are like them. All parties, families, entities have these illiterate, mean people. Look at the government…”
      FACT: Teaparty as I stated before “As I stated before, it is a highly uneducated mindset that can not relate to those of us that seek knowledge, FACTS, and a civil, logical dialogue…..”

      Factually incorrect:
      “we have a president who in himself, is an alien to this country, lied to get elected, makes deals with our foreign enemies-and is stupid enough to get caught at least once, introduces an American hating belief into our schools, and yet we don’t impeach him.”

      FACT: President Obama was born here, is not a muslim, did not lie to get elected, has the Constitutional authority to negotiate treaties and deals with foreign governments, and has never introduced hate intoour schools.

      FACT: He has done nothing to be impeached for.

      So–those who post here….better have SPECIFIC facts that are provable before you spread your misinformation, distortions and bumper sticker allegations meant only to divide this country, not solve its problems.

      We need to reject the politics of hatred, violence and intolerance based in uninformed opinions that creates a whole national polarization of thought.

    • pattreid says:

      Sheila, please, please turn off Fox News and talk radio. You are being lied to. You are being a victim to the very propaganda you preach about. You are being used, manipulated by angry men who are insane over the election of a man of color to the highest office in the world. They simply cannot bear it and will tell people anything to try to undo what has been done. Your #3 point is the only one that makes any sense at all. But, you need to include in that comment: we should stop going into other nations, destroying them and then paying to rebuild them. If you at least understood that, then possibly you would be able to realize that our incessant wars are unnecessary, serving only to enrich the top 1% of our country.

      As far as the TP goes, as long as there are people who persist in the notion that President Obama is “foreign”, or not legitimate in some way, an “alien” who “lied”, then neither the TP nor any of its followers can ever be taken seriously. You need to take your own advice, “Look to the individual always, get the whole story to make an informed opinion.” Your opinion is not informed in any way, and that has been proven over and over again. You, my friend, are listening to the wrong people. Believe this: if President Obama had done even one thing that was impeachable, he would have been impeached. There are that many out there who hate him. But, he is not impeachable, he has done nothing wrong, and the hate is based on ignorance and fear.

      So, you either need to enlighten/educate yourself, or crawl into your delirious world of fear and hate, and become one of those painfully misguided pawns in the game of right wing mania. You are more to be pitied than scorned. I’m very sorry for you.

  37. daniel bostdorf says:

    Congressional Budget office: Obama’s health law reduces deficit

    Jul 24, 5:38 PM EDT Associated press report:

Associated Press

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul will shrink rather than increase the nation’s huge federal deficits over the next decade, Congress’ nonpartisan budget scorekeepers said Tuesday, supporting Obama’s contention in a major election-year dispute with Republicans.
    About 3 million fewer uninsured people will gain health coverage because of last month’s Supreme Court ruling granting states more leeway, and that will cut the federal costs by $84 billion, the Congressional Budget Office said in the biggest changes from earlier estimates.

    Please go to AP Raw News to get full story.

    Again….when you post here…have the real facts.

  38. daniel bostdorf says:

    Health, housing get greatest federal subsidies to support STATES!

    July 24, 6:28 PM EDT


    A study of federal subsidies of various sectors of the economy released Tuesday says that health care and housing combined to reap almost $1 trillion in support in the most recent year for which data was available.
    The study funded by the Pew Charitable Trusts said that taxpayers subsidized health care by $743 billion in 2010, while a set of generous tax breaks was the main driver in $227 billion worth of subsidies for the housing industry.
    The Pew study says that various federal subsidies like tax breaks, federal grants and other government contracts totaled $1.4 trillion. It shows that much-criticized subsidies for farmers and producers of clean energy are relatively small compared to those propping up the health care and housing sectors.

    he group says $460 billion of the subsidies come as tax breaks like the mortgage-interest deduction. Such breaks are called tax expenditures, which are defined as spending that’s done through the tax code.

    Health care receives its huge subsidy through Medicaid grants to state governments to help provide care for the poor and disabled, spending on Medicare and tax-free treatment of the cost of employer-provided health care.

    Read more at AP raw news.

  39. Rex H says:

    OBAMA 2012

    I think he is a great President.

  40. overpaidCS says:

    Some times you have to evaluate what some one will contribute to society long term and if the medical bills exceed their contribution time to pull the plug

  41. DurdyDawg says:

    And THAT is the difference between the Democratic and Republican parties.. One cares, the other scoffs..

  42. Don B says:

    We need a one payer system, that will charge a monthly premium according to indvidual or family income to offset some of the cost — gasp! — like Medicare!

  43. Why do these people not have health care insurance? If they are too poor there are programs. If they chose other things over health care, then they are facing the consequences of their own actions. If it is because the affordable health care act does not go into effect until 2014, then you can see the consequences of not having the affordable health care act. People have been screaming about the mandate. Out of every $2000 you run up in health care costs, $800 goes to pay for people who do not pay their bills. The taxpayer picks up a lot of those costs. People who choose not to have a family physician or health insurance end up going to the emergency room for non-emergency situations. The hospital cannot deny them service. The taxpayer ends up paying a lot of those costs. The very poor can get Medicaid which pays better than the insurance I am buying. The very rich doesn’t h ave to worry about health care costs. That leaves the middle class holding the bag.

  44. daniel bostdorf says:


    No medical bills for some Colo. shooting victims

    Associated Press
    US Video
    Buy AP Photo Reprints

    DENVER (AP) — Some of the victims fighting for their lives after being wounded in the movie-theater shooting rampage may face another challenge when they get out of the hospital: enormous medical bills without the benefit of health insurance.

    Members of the public, along with Warner Bros., the studio that released the Batman movie “The Dark Knight Rises,” have contributed nearly $2 million to help victims, though it’s not clear how much of that will cover medical expenses. One family is raising money on its own online.


  45. Raoul says:

    If I were him, I would not pay and let all the suckers who do not want national health care end up paying his bill. What can those suckers not understand? If we all pay, then we share. If the system is left as is, some pay and some won’t.

  46. Mike Smith says:

    As a Brit currently living in Canada, (and having also lived in Australia and New Zealand), I find it strange that any country should run its health system on a “for profit” basis. It just doesn’t make any sense.
    Why should share holders returns be more important than taking care of ill people?
    Are they so afraid of a little bit of social justice that they will put up with a system that means so many people have no health coverage, and even those that do are still afraid that if they get the wrong disease the insurance company will refuse them coverage. I believe that happens often.
    Can anyone give me a logical reason why the US chose this system?

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