Oh yeah, baby. Say it like that again. Yeah. Mmmm, I think I’d—- wait. You hear that? Sounds like someone’s lis— Oh shiit!
And now…. The REAL Cartoon Of The Day!
[click image to enlarge]
Have a nice day!
“This Administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand. I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom.
“That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists. The FISA court works. The separation of powers works. Our Constitution works. We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary.
“This Administration acts like violating civil liberties is the way to enhance our security. It is not.” – Barack Hussein Obozo, Hypocrite-in-Chief, August 2007
Who do you think that you’re kidding, Bozo?
If this were a Republican administration tapping the phones, you’d justify it as necessary to protecting Ametrica.
CPA… there is a difference between targeted investigation of known or suspected terrorists’ FOREIGN communications and BLANKET data gathering and mining of EVERY Americans’ communications. Big difference. The government has an obligation to infiltrate enemy communications, but it has no authority even under the Patriot Act section 215, to a blanket collection of data on ALL Americans. That is an outrageous overreach beyond the intent of the law, and you know it.
“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Ben Franklin
I can tell you one thing that’s a fact. No one is listening to Obozo because he has nothing to say that’s the truth or important.
FoxNews – so your moniker implies that you get that Fox News is a terrible right-wing infiltrated network staffed with paranoia stricken imbeciles, but then you imply that President Obama has nothing worthwhile to contribute to the betterment of this country. I’m confused.
Baloney. I don’t think that you know what the truth of any situation is.
How is the government to target just the potential terrorists? Their names are not known. In times of national danger, some freedoms are sacrificed and this is one of those times, regardless of what Ben Franklin said. Remember, Franklin didn’t have to contend with a bunch of Muslim crazies.
Of course, to you and the other neocons, the political capital that you think will accrue to your “cause” outweighs all other considerations. Your pseudo patriotism leaves me cold. You just hate Obama because he’s half black.
Of course we know the truth. And of course they know who terrorists are, at least enough to watch them and track their associations, then track them. Don’t be so stupid. Then again, I know you cant help it.
Also, I thought Obozo said that “the war on terror is over” and has eliminated any references to radical islam throughout the entire government. Is he the same guy that has taken Bush policies and ratcheted them up? Of course he is.
2 Questions for a racist like you:
1) Is it possible to hate Obozo for his political ideology?
2) Who would I vote for, a conservative black or a white progressive?
You will not be honest because it takes away the race card from a bigot like you.
BTW… America did have dealings with crazy muzzies during Franklin and Jefferson’s times. Have you ever heard of the Barbary Coast Pirates and the resulting war where we kicked their asses and got the Treaty of Tripoli signed? Probably not because you’re an uneducated simpleton.
In 1786, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson met with Arab diplomats from Tunisia, who were conducting terror raids and piracy against American ships (Barbary Pirates). Writing to John Jay, Thomas Jefferson described what he saw as the main issue and the reason why they were attacking Americans who had done them no harm. The following quote is from Thomas Jefferson….
“We took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the Grounds of their pretensions to make war upon a Nation who had done them no Injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our Friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation. THE AMBASSADOR ANSWERED US THAT IT WAS FOUNDED ON THE LAWS OF THEIR PROPHET, THAT IT WAS WRITTEN IN THEIR KORAN, THAT ALL NATIONS WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THEIR AUTHORITY WERE SINNERS, THAT IT WAS THEIR RIGHT AND DUTY TO MAKE WAR UPON THEM WHEREVER THEY COULD BE FOUND, AND TO MAKE SLAVES OF ALL THEY COULD TAKE AS PRISONERS, AND THAT EVERY MUSSELMAN (MUSLIM) WHO SHOULD BE SLAIN IN BATTLE WAS SURE TO GO TO PARADISE”
We know all of the radical Muslims’ names’ huh? If we do, then we’d be able to do after them. We don’t know their names or their whereabouts so we need to do the surveillance. You sound like a guy who harbors a secret admiration for the terrorists and doesn’t want them to be discovered.
Aside from your insulting remarks, I was mildly surprised by your accusing me of being a racist. I’m defending Obama and you’re calling me a racist. Are you trying to be cute by switching roles or just so confused that you can’t compose a rational note?
CPA.. you are stupid. No 2 ways about. I never said we know ALL of the muzzies names. I did say we know SOME of their names and the ability to monitor and spy on them leads to the gathering of more radical muzzie names to track which leads to more. Just like tracking the mob. You leftist freaks went into a full out frenzy when you learned that Bush was wiretapping and listening to THEIR communications, but you have no problem with Obozo gathering ALL AMERICANS’ communications. You’re a downright freak with your priorities backwards.
And yes, you ARE a racist because you judge based upon skin color and think I should. You call me a racist because I do NOT judge on skin color as evidenced by the questions that you have conveniently refused to answer honestly. I am not turning the tables, just setting the record straight. You think I should support Obozo BECAUSE he is black, and if I don’t, then I am racist. That is a LIE! And you know it. You and your ilk also think that guys like Allen West are “Uncle Toms” because they don’t think the way you believe a black person should think. Judging HOW a person should think because of the color of their skin IS RACIST! You’re either a black racist, or have a bad case of white guilt. Either way, you’re a racist.
Sorry, schmuck, the race card doesn’t work on me.
Have a nice day, racist bigot!
“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” – Martin Luther King
You are truly a foul mouthed individual who cannot put two logical thoughts together.
You did say that we know who the radical muslims are, not that we know some. Based on that silly assertion, you stated that the monitoring was unnecessary. Now you’re saying that we know SOME of the radical Muslims’ names. Well, Bozo, how many is “SOME”? Is it ten percent, fifty percent, ninety percent? Come on Bozo, what is your concept of “SOME”?
Know what I think? I think that you painted yourself into a logical corner and can’t weasel out of it.
But as usual, you’re missing the point, which is that no matter how many names and locations we may have, it’s the many or few that we don’t have that can avoid surveillance and cause another nine – eleven. Get the picture now, Bozo? We must get all of them and to do that, we need the monitoring.
CPA… you truly are a foul brained individual. How one could be so stupid as to infer meaning to include ALL known terrorist in the universe of terrorist is beyond me. It’s not normal discourse to have to specifically state the obvious. The fact is that we can track the terrorists to a very high degree of certainty without having to spy on EVERY American.
We have proof that spying on ALL American’s phone records (i.e. giving away liberty in exchange for so-called security as you suggested was needed in such times of national danger) DOES NOT WORK AT ALL. No matter what we do, we will never get rid of 100% of the terrorist attacks against us. Here is your proof:
Not only did Obozo snooping on our phone records NOT stop that terror attack, the FBI and CIA KNEW ABOUT THE SCUMBAGS BEFORE THEY BLEW UP PEOPLE AND DID NOTHING ABOUT IT. They knew, and were warned multiple times by Russian intelligence, that these guys were radicalized. THEY MET WITH THE OLDER BROTHER and never followed up.
IF BEING TIPPED OFF AND THEN MEETING WITH TERRORISTS THAT BLOW PEOPLE UP DOES NOT WORK, HOW IS SNIFFING ALL AMERICANS PHONE CALLS GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?????
CPA… you’re too damned stupid to know that you’re too damned stupid. I’m here to point that out for you.
BTW… guess I shut you up on the race issue, huh.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian!” – Henry Ford
You didn’t shut me up on anything. Your foul mouthed diatribe is not worth much of a reasoned response. It’s important to maintain surveillance of people and organizations that post a clear and present danger to the United States and its citizens.
You don’t seem to understand that, although I think that you do, but your aversion to Obama because of his race prevents you from arguing logically.
For example, Scott Walker, Governor of Wisconsin, is pushing through the state legislature a law that will subject certain bank accounts of recipients of that state’s unemployment compensation to state scrutiny. The accounts that will be subject to scrutiny will be those that contain the unemployment insurance benefits. What do you think of that?
This is an example of a Republican governor doing something very similar to what you criticize Obama for doing. Are you against it, as you are against Obama’s telephone surveillance? Or, are you going to try to find some lame excuse for backing Scott’s plan while condemning Obama’s?
Want to know Scott’s rationale for this intrusion? it’s so that the state can root out unauthorized payments.
CPA… it’s the blanket collection of data on ALL Americans, not just targeted collection at potential or known threats that is the difference. You made a post to me, and I responded that THERE IS a difference between Bush wiretapping foreign conversations of potential terrorists and threats, and Obozo’s all encompassing, everyone is a threat strategy to spy on everyone. BIG difference.
In addition, I provided you CASE NUMBER 1 against Obozo’s collecting data on every American. It does not work, and it will not work to make us more safe. Bostoon bombing is all the evidence anyone needs to know.
What it will do is to help Obozo develop political uses for his data just like he used the IRS to harrass and intimidate conservative groups to keep them from raising money and organizing in the last election. In other words, the very voter suppression he engaged in while talking out of the other side of his pie hole saying that showing an ID is voter suppression. Classic Obozo. Accuse the other guy of doing what you are doing behind everyone’s back. Put the focus on them and let his lap dog media chase false ghosts while he sneaks around the back door abusing government power knowing his beloved media will cover his ass and do his bidding. I don’t bring this up to change the topic. I bring it up to show you that giving government greater power will NOT make you safer, but in the end, when either Obozo or some other despot takes the helm, the chances that such power will be abused becomes greater. You are made no more safe than when they use warranted and targeted spying.
And you rightly have taken the race card off the table because you know I will slam you with it. This is why you don’t answer questions on it. That’s fine. I know where you stand.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” – C. S. Lewis
You’re improving. This is a much more reasonable posting. However, I didn’t take race off the table. I still think that you and the ultra conservatives can ascribe much of your dislike of Obama’s policies to racial prejudice.
One more thing: My friends would laugh at your characterizing me as a liberal. I am not. I am a moderate conservative and a registered Republican since I registered to vote. I registered Republican because I liked the party’s moderate approach to things, in contrast to the shrillness of the Democrats.Because of the present extremism of the Tea Party people, I think that the Republican Party has lost some of its focus. I hope that it doesn’t go the way of the Whigs, which it replaced in 1854.
CPA… since this is the first extended exchange you and I have had, you may not know that I have said many times before that I don’t play the Republican vs. DemonRAT game. It may be assumed by many readers that that is what I am doing, but it is not. I used to play it like everyone else, but the Bush years when he had Republican control of the House and Senate taught me that doing so is a false game. It’s not an intentional design that such a system distracts all of us into focusing on the wrong things, but it certainly is a result that is enjoyed and played by both parties, all the while they keep on fleecing us citizens. Rather, the real issues at hand are progressive (what is really big government, socialistic) vs. classical liberal Americanism (what is called conservatism today). It’s the age old battle of tyranny vs. liberty. Those who believe they are smarter than everyone else and seek to control them for their own good vs. those who seek to be free, responsible, and in control of their own destiny. And there are big government progressives in BOTH parties. The only real difference is that progressive Republicans tend to be socially conservative while adhering to progressive fiscal and economic policies. Witness the fiscal insanity of the Bush years followed by a double down on that insanity with Obozo.
I am exactly the opposite. I am a socially liberal, live and let live, type of person. What you do in your bedroom, who or how you worship or don’t, how you spend your money, who you associate with, what kind of lightbulbs you use or car you drive, are NONE of my concern. Just like what I do or believe should be NONE of your concern. ANY person I know affiliated with any Tea Party group thinks the same exact way. You’ve bought the mischaracterization of the Tea Party that was marketed by the Dems and the media when they discovered the political power of the movement in November 2010. They HAD to isolate and fight against them for their own survival, even if it meant they made up lies like calling them racist or extremists. The simple fact is that the Tea Party stands for individual liberty and freedom, constitutionally limited government, fiscal responsibility, and free market economics. That’s it, nothing else. Those are classic American liberal values that are very hard to argue against, unless you are a progressive that believes in the primacy of government in our lives. There are no masterminds in government that know any better how to live your life than you do, or anyone else for that matter. The lie they perpetuate ultimately leads to one central requirement they never mention: that you surrentder your money and your freedom for their false promise of security. The only real result is their increased power and a bigger bureaucracy living off the backs of private citizens in the rest of the country. While many of them who go to Congress young and never have a real job end up fabulously wealthy after years of “service” to their country. It’s a scam. And BOTH parties are guilty of it.
Now, I do affiliate with the Republican party, but only because I have to in order to have a voice in the primaries in my state. If that was not the case, I would be independent. I have supported a couple of Democrats in my local elections because I knew them and they were honorable, decent people. But NEVER for a federal election. The progressives from the 60’s have hijacked that party completely. There may be a couple of exceptions, but not in the North East where I live. Unfortunately, there are many who are in the Republican party, as well. And I don’t give a single damn whether that party survives or not. If it will not stand for traditional American values, then it should go the way of the Whigs.
That’s where I stand. Here are 2 quotes below that sum it up well.
Thanks for the good discussion, CPA. Insults and kidding aside, I appreciate the discussion.
Have a nice day!
“Being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm nother
in his life, health, liberty, or possessions.” ― John Locke, Second Treatise of Government
“The only defense against the world is a thorough knowledge
of it.” ― John Locke
Glad you brought up the “BOSTON BOMBING”. Don’t forget 9/11, Oklahoma City, and hundreds of others we DID NOT find out about or stop. Just think of all those incidents that just slipped through our impenetrable wall of security.
Hasty… uhhhhh… The FBI and CIA were not tipped off by Russia, nor did they actually interview the 9/11, OKC, or other terrorists PRIOR TO THEIR COMMITTING THEIR ATTACKS like they did the Tsarnaev brother. Those kids used their phones, their emails, credit cards, and friends. They did everything but put up a billboard announcing their plans. My point is NOT that we can catch everyone. My point is that the NSA collecting ALL Americans phone data, with the exception of course of radicalized muzzy mosques’ data, DOES NOT MAKE US SAFE. It doesnt make us safe when they have info of dangerous people BEFORE they committ their terror attacks. So why do it? Why violate the 4th Amendment with blanket warrants that presume Americans MIGHT be terrorists? I can assure you that they are NOT collecting phone records for safety. Just like the IRS collecting information on what books conservative groups read or the content of their prayers while they are applying for tax exempt status. THIS IS ABOUT CONTROL. Nothing else, Hasty.
“The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it.” – H.L. Mencken
Timothy McVeigh was found very quickly, because of data mining, and darned good police work, evidence gathering that utilized EXTENSIVE networks of data storage. Same with the FIRST bombing of the World Trade Centers. The Tsarnaev brothers should have been headed off, but then, so should Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
Hey, breaking news for you:
Obama is STILL the leader of the free world.
You’re still NOT.
He’s STILL BLACK!
Once again, when your arguments fail, either in logic or in substance, your resort to your fallback default position – insult.
CPA, you cold not have said it better. “pseudo-patriotism”, “neo-con”, and “half-black” pretty much describes all of his issues.
That has been going on for more than a decade. In fact, under the junior senator from Wisconsin, McCarthy, they were doing it in the 1950’s, under the guise of the fear of the communists. The government has been mining private data, with the implicit approval of the American public, under Democrat AND Republican presidents, for over 200 years. And what is so surprising is that both parties recognize the underlying security demands for doing so, just that the Republicans seem to get a hard-on when Democrats do it.
Hasty… a few points:
1) NO, they have not been doing data mining on ALL American communications for 200 years. That’s a foolish statement at face value and needs no other explanation than to ask you exactly what computers or digital communications were they monitoring in the 1800’s?
2) NO, there has not been under Bush, or anyone else, blanket collection of American communications data. Bush targeted specific communications or known terrorists and their networks, not ALL Americans. This is new ground under Obozo.
3) It is true that both R & D administrations have engaged in illicit behavior. It is NOT true that all illicit behavior is equally bad. There are degrees of bad behavior. For example, Nixon did not have an enemies list. That was actually Richard Dean. But Dean worked for him and it’s fair to tag Nixon with it. Nixon did NOT use the IRS to intimidate his political opponents, but he attempted to do so. Abuse of power (attempting to use the IRS) was one of his articles of impeachment. Obozo SUCCEEDED in using the IRS to target his political opponents, in abusing his power. So, Obozo’s much more guilty than Nixon ever was.
4) McCarthy was correct. There were commies infiltrating our government. Unfortunately, it was NOT a crime, and his hearings were pointless. It should have been a crime. In fact, being a leftist freak should be a crime today. We should put all of you into re-education camps! hehehehehe … just kidding, Hasty… 🙂
Have a nice weekend!
“All government, of course, is against liberty.” – H.L. Mencken
Data mining has been a tool of the intelligence community for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Every major society since pre-Christian days has a need for intelligence gathering. Christ was not picked up on a whim, but because Roman security had determined Him to be a potential risk. The FBI under Hoover mined data, establishing dossiers on thousands of AMERICAN individuals and groups, much of it done covertly, without Congressional or judicial oversight.
McCarthy’s hearings were based upon established law, otherwise they could not have begun in the first place. The House Unamerican Activities Committee existed before McCarthy, and extended well beyond his death.
The Obama surveillance is no less egregious than that of the Bush administration, nor is it more egregious. They are one and the same, for they are based upon the same established laws, codifed as The Patriot Act. Surveillance today does NOT include the text of telephonic communications, only the source, frequency, direction, duration, and destination, a system that has been used often in the past (especially against the organized crime families) to establish patterns.
Hasty… Christ was not picked up by Romans because THEY thought he was a threat. It was the Jewish Pharisees that considered him a threat and accused him of blasphemy. In fact, Pilate did everything he could to let him go, including offering the choice between Christ and a murderer named Barabas. Go back and read your Bible.
And your analogy of watching communications of organized crime figures defeats your point. Doing so is done on a specific warranted basis. Blanket collection of ALL American’s communications is not under any circumstances done under warrant LEGALLY because a warrant itself is specific and focused. Read the 4th Amendment, Hasty.
That being said, as I understand their methodologies, there’s little chance that anyone lawful citizen’s rights are actually being infringed to a large degree. I will admit that. However, what we are watching here is the gradual encroachment on our liberties. bit by bit by bit. What guys like me are complaining about is not necessarily the “today”, but forseeing the dangers that can arise in the future and less scrupulous leaders may come to power. Obozo has already proven that he will abuse the power of government against his political opponents. Who will come next that will push the envelope further? This is what I have said before. Just because others have done something in the past does NOT justify the continued offenses against our liberties. And it should not matter which party is in power. Our Bill of Rights MUST transcend political parties and MUST be that line in the sand that government cannot cross as it was intended to be by the founders.
Happy Fathers Day, Hasty!
“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” ― George Orwell
Christ was picked up by the ROMANS (not the Pharisees) because the ROMAN authorities saw him as a possible security risk. Go back and read something a little more reliable from an historic standpoint than the Bible, like- say- maybe history.
What is data mining, and when did this term come into use in the modern lexicon?
Apparently, you have no concept or understanding of the freedoms we gave up when we allowed Congress to pass the Patriot Act.
While we both bandy about the INTENTIONS of the Founding Fathers, DO attempt to bear in mind that those who could legally vote in this country in 1791 (when the Bill of Rights was ratified) numbered less than 10% of the total population, and that even excludes slaves, who constituted 20-25% (or more) of the total population. It was not exactly what we have come to call a Democracy, although it was considerably different to that system that had guided their affairs for the first 150 years of America’s existence.
The Republicans DID engage in wire-tapping, warrantless searches of telephone and library records, unfettered use of drones, torture, violations of international treaties, etc. under the authority of the Patriot Act. Everything the Republicans in the House are today accusing the Obama administration of doing they gave a pass to Bush for doing.
Let me get this straight, you were in favor of this tracking phone numbers when it was 1st implemented sometime around 2004/2005 but are against it now. I wonder what happened to change your mind. Could it be there is a different president in the White House? Talk about being a hypocrite, I hear so many right wingers complaining now but thought it was agood thing to do to help prevent terrorist attacks. My how things change.
Bill… there is a difference between targeted investigation of known or suspected terrorists’ FOREIGN communications and BLANKET data gathering and mining of EVERY Americans’ communications. Big difference. The government has an obligation to infiltrate enemy communications, but it has no authority even under the Patriot Act section 215, to a blanket collection of data on ALL Americans. That is an outrageous overreach beyond the intent of the law, and you know it.
OMG, you’re a hypocrite and you’ve been discredited for posting blatant lies and bogus links to more lies. I thought you learned your lesson when I point out your lies and misinformation. I guess I was wrong. There isn’t much to stop big old racist gas bags such as yourself, is there?
No there isn’t – we might as well give up trying. Those of his ilk will NEVER accept this administration and when history proves that it was one of the most effective in recent history they will burn that history book.
It almost makes me feel sorry for the eavesdroppers. Isn’t there an app to screen out that Valley Speak and flag the important words?
Before becoming President, Obama probably felt like most liberals during the Bush administration and thought that NO spying was needed to keep us safe; especially spying by a CONSERVATIVE who might want to, say, send all Democratic donors to Gitmo on trumped up charges. Once he got the classified briefings, who knows what was in there? Someone tried to sneak a nuclear bomb into the Super Bowl and was caught by the Tempest system, maybe? Look, if the American people said SERIOUSLY, we want total privacy, EVEN IF a worse than 9/11 terrorist attack happens because our government does not know in advance, and we will NOT criticize the current President for that attack, the President, whoever that is, would listen (the WAY we can say that is to get the Congress to REPEAL the Patriot Act, FISA, and the open-ended AUMF they gave to Bush). But there really IS a choice between privacy and security, and the people STILL want security, so far, more than privacy. We just don’t want to be REMINDED of that choice.