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Tuesday, January 17, 2017

WASHINGTON — One of the best arguments for health insurance reform is that our traditional employer-based system often locked people into jobs they wanted to leave but couldn’t because they feared they wouldn’t be able to get affordable coverage elsewhere.

This worry was pronounced for people with pre-existing conditions but not limited to them. Consider families with young children in which one of the parents would like to get out of the formal labor market for a while to take care of the kids. In the old system, the choices of such couples were constrained if only one of the two received employer-provided family coverage.

Or ponder the fate of a 64-year-old with a condition that leaves her in great pain. She has the savings to retire but can’t exercise this option until she is eligible for Medicare. Is it a good thing to force her to stay in her job? Is it bad to open her job to someone else?

By broadening access to health insurance, the Affordable Care Act ends the tyranny of “job lock,” which is what the much-misrepresented Congressional Budget Office study of the law released on Tuesday shows. The new law increases both personal autonomy and market rationality by ending the distortions in behavior the old arrangements were creating.

But that’s not how the study has been interpreted, particularly by enemies of the law. Typical was a tweet from the National Republican Congressional Committee declaring that “#ObamaCare is hurting the economy, will cost 2.5 millions [sic] jobs.”

Glenn Kessler, The Washington Post’s intrepid fact checker, replied firmly: “No, CBO did not say Obamacare will kill 2 million jobs.” What the report said, as The Wall Street Journal accurately summarized it, is that the law “will reduce the total number of hours Americans work by the equivalent of 2.3 million full-time jobs.”

Oh my God, say opponents of the ACA, here is the government encouraging sloth! That’s true only if you wish to take away the choices the law gives that 64-year-old or to those moms and dads looking for more time to care for their children. Many on the right love family values until they are taken seriously enough to involve giving parents/workers more control over their lives.

And it’s sometimes an economic benefit when some share of the labor force reduces hours or stops working altogether. At a time of elevated unemployment, others will take their place. The CBO was careful to underscore — the CBO is always careful — that “if some people seek to work less, other applicants will be readily available to fill those positions and the overall effect on employment will be muted.”

66 Responses to Must The Obamacare Debate Be Stupid?

  1. The worst part of the anti-Obamacare arguments presented by the GOP thus far is their lack of substance or logic. With the exception of children, and people with a very low IQ, the most benign comment we can make about them is that they are immature. The consequence of focusing on trivia, nonsense, and deceptive tactics is that legitimate concerns, such as the need to reach out to all the people who do not have access to preventive medicine, or the potential impact of adding millions of new customers to the healthcare system without increasing the number of doctors and nurses, are being ignored.

    • Dominick, the GOP really have no valid anti-Obamacare arguments. Every one of them are based on Bogeymen that they keep trying to invent.
      Personally, I think we need to replace the ACA with a single-payer system as was originally designed by the Conservative think tanks that first came up with the idea.

      • Thanks to Dominick and discus_ivS13ByGmh for a great discussion. Instead of working for their salary, they continue to steal from the American people and to collect their $1million per annum.

        However, I can’t help but add that during the Obama / Romney debates I kept asking “how can one debate with a liar”?

        • Hypothetically…. another liar can debate another liar….because the false premises by both become false conclusions and the “debate” continues….

        • Yes, it was very difficult to debate Obama the liar…as proven repeatedly even by the most liberal press in America.

          • Daniel, you broke your own golden rule, don’t feed the troll! Seriously though, last year I was on this very discuss page living in fear of the ACA. When enrollment came around, I signed up through my state’s exchange. I was pleasantly surprised with the coverage and the cost, unfortunately I lost my job before it took affect but I soon found a full time job and my new employer provides a very good plan that is almost equal to the one I had to give up. It cost about $30 more per month but the benefits are almost identical. I did take a substantial decrease in pay but that’s only a temporary setback that I feel I can absorb, I’m happy I was wrong, maybe my story can serve as proof of the GOP lies.

      • I would have preferred a universal healthcare system similar to those in most Western European countries. It is more cost effective, all citizens are eligible for medical care, and it increases the competitive posture of the business community by removing one of the most expensive burdens our corporations bear: the cost of healthcare insurance for their employees. However, we have to be realistic and understand that major cultural and governmental changes must be implemented incrementally. Can you imagine what would have happened if a truly socialized healthcare system had been implemented, and the for-profit middle man (insurance companies) had been marginalized? ACA is actually a bonanza for the insurance industry, which is why we seldom hear them complain. It is as far removed from socialism as we can possibly get, and yet, the ignoramus repeat the garbage they hear from their obliging elected officials and rabid talking heads without the slightest sense of embarrassment. I wonder if they ever considered what The Heritage Foundation had in mind when they conceived the concept of ACA, or what Romney thought when he rolled out in MA? Amazing…and scary!

      • I just done listening to an excellent MedPage telecast of a panel of very high level Health Policy experts. According to what they said, that can actually be done with just a few small changes in the tax code and in the law.

          • It will take more than taking over the House for a few years to get to a single payer system, but it will happen slowly but surely.

  2. The hair on fire crazies of the ignorant right have latched onto another Unfounded, OUT of the BOX LIE and like a snapping turtle they have nothing else and must hold on or die!

    Most today are watching their painful foolish death and cheering them on!

  3. Dear EJ,
    Please pass on your message to your colleague Dana Milbank, who saw the CBO report as a grim news for the Adminstration. The CBO conclusion in itself is obvious and would come as no suprise to any reasonably intelligent person. The only new thing is a higher estimate at 2 millon compared to 800,000 projected earlier. Even at that time the Republicans aided by an obliging medai screamed “job killer”. It is no surprise that they will do the same once again, louder than before. Therefore all reasonable people must make sure the true story is told. It needs to be repeated over and over again. No the ACA does not kill jobs. The ACA creates space for new employment. The ACA frees some of the employed, possibly locked in a dead-end job solely to retain health insurance, to move to other pursuits which could also include being self employed. In other words, the ACA provides the opportunity for people to withdraw, reduce or redirect the supply of labour and allow others to take up these freed jobs. This replacement would not affect the demand for labour which would depend on the state of the economy, technological change, global competition and much else.

    • Beautifully written and accurate post. The part of the CBO report that the GOP does not understand, or does not want us to understand, is that the jobs in question will not be lost. If the prediction of mass attrition proves to be correct, and 2 million Americans who are currently employed because they are still too young to qualify for MEDICARE, or who cannot afford healthcare insurance premiums because they are too high, leave the workforce as a result of Obamacare making affordable healthcare coverage available to those who need it, the vacant positions will be filled by younger workers, including the unemployed.
      American corporations are not going to eliminate jobs because of ACA. In fact, corporations such as Google, MICROSOFT, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, GE and other giants offer perks such as paid maternity leave, gums, free lunches and other benefits, along with excellent healthcare coverage, to recruit qualified and experienced professionals and minimize attrition.

      • Absolutely correct sir, but that is also where the right wing gets squeamish. More jobs available to more applicants might tip the worker supply/demand quotient away from what the right wing is hell-bent on doing, forcing wages downward. They don’t want full employment or anything close to it, they want long lines of starving peasants ready to work for bread.

        • Your kidding right! The Right ‘wants to see long lines of starving peasants ready to work for bread.’ Jesus Christ is that ever bullsh*%. Wrong! The Conservatives, just like you, are not big fans of Corporations or outsourcing.

          If you think that Obamacare is so great then why are the premuims going up and up and up. Young people are not even signing on and, young people I have talked to, would rather pay the penalty than pay for the insurance. Think about it, when you were young did you even think about providing insurance for yourself. I didn’t. I got it through my employer or I didn’t have it at all.

          I was talking to a Liberal friend of mine the other day. She knows a couple who paid several hundred dollars for insurance every month until they signed up for the exchange. Now they pay over $1000.00 and these people only make $55,000 a year together. Get real this thing is a failure….

          Remember Conservatives are job creators. It’s your Man’s taxes that are killing business. It’s your Man’s insurance debacle that will make people decide to work less because they don’t want to pay the high premiums.

          You can wrap the crap up and put a pretty bow on it but when you open it up it is still crap…

      • Perhaps you could answer a question for me, “Allah”. Why do you and your “conservative” cohorts make such unbelievably stupid and unsupportable comments? You MUST know that anyone with an IQ over 100 can see right through the BS and yet you make these outrageously false statements! Seriously, I don’t understand why you people want to put your ignorance on public display the way you do. What’s in it for you?

      • Talk about killing people – it’s the GOP that’s trying to kill people with many governors refusing to expand Medicaid.

        Here’s a study done this time by Harvard that estimates more than 17,000 will die premature deaths because of the GOP.

        Here’s just an excerpt from the article as to why so many may die – and their estimate of 17,000 may be hugely conservative:

        Harvard Study: States’ Medicaid expansion refusal will kill thousands

        Twenty-five states have refused to expand Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act. That leaves millions of people in the gap between being poor enough to qualify for existing Medicaid, and too poor to qualify for the subsidies available to buy private insurance on the health exchanges. Refusing the expansion is a political decision by Republican state lawmakers that will have a big economic impact for those states. What it will also cause, according to a new study from Harvard University and the City University of New York, is eight million people remaining uninsured, and up to 17,000 premature and avoidable deaths.

        The authors break it down more in a post at Health Affairs. The sheer numbers of those not receiving screenings and treatments: 712,037 fewer diagnoses, and treatment, of depression; 240,700 people suffering “catastrophic medical expenditures”; 422,553 diabetics not receiving medication; 195,492 fewer mammograms; and 443,677 fewer pap smears. “Expansion would have resulted in an additional 658,888 women in need of mammograms gaining insurance,” the authors say, “as well as 3.1 million women who should receive regular pap smears.”

        That’s not counting the millions of idiotic conservatives who are opting out of insurance just out of spite over Obama. They’ll still contribute to the avoidable death toll, and it will also be irrational.

        I’m back again and here’s the link to the whole article (better wake up before you or someone you know is one of those 17,000):

        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/31/1270171/-Harvard-Study-States-Medicaid-expansion-refusal-will-kill-nbsp-thousands?detail=action

  4. My advice you, E.J, is to definitely not back this:”My bet is that our citizens are smarter than this” up with money. You seem to have forgotten how much more believable a strident statement quoting a paraphrased CBO estimate of millions of lost jobs is than a reasoned long-winded explanation of the true meaning of that statistic. Americans have learned from sad experience that as soon as someone says, “What this means is…” the snow job is about to begin.

    • Agreed and I have a further explanation of how the media ie the “4th Estate” failed the American people…again… and over 10 years ago–the 4th Estate failed the American people by not analyizing the reasons for going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan…Ten years ago toda, President George W. Bush appointed a bipartisan commission to examine intelligence on Iraq’s weapons. (In a scathing 600-page report released in March 2005, the commission called the spy community “dead wrong on almost all of its prewar judgments” about Iraqi weaponry.)

      Where was the 4th Estate before the Iraq war?

  5. Actually, the GOP response earlier this week, was so far into an alternate reality, that it would seem impossible (even for them) to characterize it as merely ‘stupid’.

    Even Paul Ryan had to come out and “clarify” it for them….meeting with the head of the CBO and announcing that the ACA would NOT be eliminating 2 million jobs. It must have killed him to say it…but he had to realize that only complete idiots could have interpreted Tuesday’s report as a ‘job killer’. Basically saving them from themselves.

    • Had the media done its job, we would not have this article. They are abdicating their collective role as the “4th Estate.” see my comment above with full explaination.

  6. All the posts here are really great….and I believe that EJ is square on target at his summary statement:

    “The reaction to the CBO study is an example of how willfully stupid — there’s no other word — the debate over Obamacare has become. Opponents don’t look to a painstaking analysis for enlightenment. They twist its findings and turn them into dishonest slogans. Too often, the media go along by highlighting the study’s political impact rather than focusing on what it actually says.”

    Yes—it was the knee jerk unprofessional editors at dozens of “news outlets” that published the GOP propaganda as fact… This disgusting display by “mainstream media.”

    They are abdicating their collective role as the “4th Estate.” Their job: Access to information is essential to the health of democracy for at least two reasons. First, it ensures that citizens make responsible, informed choices rather than acting out of ignorance or misinformation. Second, information serves a “checking function” by ensuring that elected representatives uphold their oaths of office and carry out the wishes of those who elected them. The 4th branch of government plays a crucial role in the lives of political candidates and issues. This is where the role of the media can become controversial. As we have seen with this bogus CBO propaganda being reported as facts…News reporting is supposed to be objective, but journalists are people, with feelings, opinions and preconceived ideas……The most important job the 4th Esrate has is to provide Transparency and accountability for all elected officials. To do this, profesisonal news organizations must have high standards of reporting that REQUIRE analizing FACTS ansd give a historic perspective.

    In this case, the news media failed miserably. And the public has suffered with days on ad nauseum GOP/Teparty propaganda disguised as facts simply because the 4th Estate failed the American people.

    On a bright note yesterday–Finally… the AP raw news service gets it right by “fact checking” the wild GOP claims and finally analizing the CBO report:
    headline
    FACT CHECK: Anti-Obamacare chorus is off key
    excerpt
    “…..But some aren’t telling it straight. The analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office predicts the law will give several million people an opportunity to work less or not at all, because they won’t be stuck in jobs just for the sake of keeping the health insurance they get from employers. To some Republicans, that amounts to “wreaking havoc on working families,” “dire consequencesfor workers” and a shower of pink slips across the land –

    “….conclusions unsupported by the report.”

    read here

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_OVERHAUL_FACT_CHECK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-02-05-20-44-46

    The American people get the government they deserve as well as a 4th Estate by either holding all accountible….or by acquiescing to propaganda ie accept no facts as facts reluctantly but without protest.

  7. I listened to Morning Joe, who is so full of himself, talk about how the ACA is incentive NOT to work. Nothing but expansion of the welfare class and laziness. Huh? Let’s see—a person works full time but makes so little that she cannot afford a health care policy. So– she signs up for Obamacare and gets an affordable premium with a subsidy. There are also deductibles with her affordable plan when she starts using it. Therefore, she uses her plan to get her knee replacement and now has a $5000 bill to pay for. She has to work after her knee heals. Maybe full time again, as even with the health care plan she has to pay for, she doesn’t make enough $$ to live on. I haven’t met any person who takes advantage of the free medical clinic where I volunteer (and can’t afford health care) who love living at the poverty level. They work at minimum wage jobs. Many are just so beaten down by life, with battered bodies by working hard and standing on their feet 7 hours a day.
    Not everyone is a welfare queen or a druggie.

    • Morning Joe is not a journalist….he is a propagandist. He is paid to spew forth lies and falsehoods as ej points out in his article:

      “The reaction to the CBO study is an example of how willfully stupid — there’s no other word — the debate over Obamacare has become. Opponents don’t look to a painstaking analysis for enlightenment. They twist its findings and turn them into dishonest slogans. Too often, the media go along by highlighting the study’s political impact rather than focusing on what it actually says.”

      Morning Joe and the entire GOP Rove talking point crew “twist its findings and turn them into dishonest slogans.”..

      This applies to anything and everything the Obama administraion does…

      EJ is dead on…

    • Myself watched Morning Joe as you did. This man is totally useless. He goes there in the morning to open his mouth without thinking what he says is beneficial to people or not. He doesn’t think that we are talking about Insurance of ACA like any other Insurance like: Insurance for the car or for the house. Who in their right mind will think OK I have to work less or leave my job so long as my house is insured or my car. That is totally nonsense. I do not think people like Joe Scarborough is there to educate people. He is there to only get the salary and feed his own stomach. By the way, how can he educate others while himself has so far proved useless.

    • You’re exactly right, you know. The longer Joe Scarborough sits
      on his rear, making 5 million dollars a year, for essentially adding
      nothing/zero, to anyone’s day, or life, the more unbearable he becomes. I cannot, stand to watch the guy. Your comment
      about Morning Joe, made me think of a line from a very dated,
      Joe South song. Hope you don’t mind. I thought it fit, Joe.

      “If you could see you through my eyes, instead of your ego,”
      “I believe you’d be, surprised to see. that you’ve been blind.”

  8. Everyone is making a flawed assumption that the GOP really just misunderstands the law instead of the fact that they are working for their masters on Wall st. They want to go back to a hybrid system that gives more protection to the insurance companies than patients. They understand the law too well and know if it works eventually people will clamor for the next step which is single payer and cut the insurance companies out of the picture all together. The insurance companies will use their power to chip away around the edges of the law, which the republicans are already doing. They no longer scream repeal, rather fix it. But how? Their plan is to tax health benefits you get for your employer, and allow insurance companies once again drop coverage under yet undisclosed terms, plus once you are dropped there is no mandate on the insurance companies to grant new coverage. Like if you are laid off and loose benefits. Remember Republicans always owe their allegiance to big business over the individual needs. The entire reason insurance companies are still in the game is by their insistence. This is why we don’t have a single payer system. So follow the money and it will tell you where the debate is going.

    • Interesting angle and the GOP’s reaction to CBO is part of deflecting the debate…

      EJ states in his article:
      “The reaction to the CBO study is an example of how willfully stupid — there’s no other word — the debate over Obamacare has become. Opponents don’t look to a painstaking analysis for enlightenment. They twist its findings and turn them into dishonest slogans. Too often, the media go along by highlighting the study’s political impact rather than focusing on what it actually says.”

      • True the media is a gloss over the issues medium. It is more about headline news than true analysis. There is a lot of money in illness and groups wanting to grab pieces of the health care system. Each has their own lobby group. They create issues but never get to the truth, which is that we are a really sick nation. We don’t rank high in terms of general health of the population but spend exponentially more than everyone put together, 2.7 trillion. This is because the entire system has been allowed to be built on profit only.
        All the arguments swirling around the ACA are about that issue whether it’s budgetary or how will insurance companies maintain their profit margin, who will get coverage and what it will cost. The debate never goes to why do we have 500,000 deaths a year from cancer, or 400,000 from Heart disease. that is more Americans that have died than all the wars we ever fought put together. The difference being we honor those who died in combat, not those who ate drank and smoked products sold in our economy that made them sick.
        The debate will constantly be on those economic issues because no one wants to deal with our death rate. If they did we would design a system based on lowering it instead of who is making money off of it.

        • you are dead on here: “The debate will constantly be on those economic issues because no one
          wants to deal with our death rate. If they did we would design a system
          based on lowering it instead of who is making money off of it.”

          nice…

    • That is my take on it too. If the GOP is so sure it’s bad, why not just let it fail on it’s own merits or lack thereof. The more the GOP hates it, the more we should embrace it and do everything in our power to fight for it.

  9. Here is another example of the emdia fact checking the GOP claims:

    DCCC seeks apology from McMorris Rodgers

    In her party’s official response to the State of the Union last week, Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-Wash.), the House Republican Conference chair, shared an anecdote about “Bette in Spokane.” The point was to criticize the Affordable Care Act with a real-world example of a woman adversely affected by “Obamacare.”

    It didn’t turn out well. A closer look at the anecdote quickly turned the story into the latest in a series of debunked tales about ACA “victims.”

    read here:

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/dccc-seeks-apology-mcmorris-rodgers

  10. When you argue with stupid people or people who would do anything to prove their point you are going to get a stupid argument. This argument about the ACA is not much different than the fifty year old fight over Medicare. I am beginning to find it boring and would venture to say than I am not alone in that. Enough already, let them howl and shout until no one is listening any more; and that will happen just like it has with Medicare. History does tend to repeat itself. So I am going to take a chance and predict that It will not take too many years before people start yelling “keep the Government out of my Obamacare.”

    • I agree: “Enough already, let them howl and shout until no one is listening any
      more; and that will happen just like it has with Medicare.”

      As long as the 4th Estate media dioes its collective job and witnesses and reports the facts and points out the BS by the GOP…

      • Once it no longer sells airtime, the media will drop the subject like a hot potato. The only thing most of them are really concerned about is making money, and controversy – both real and manufactured – makes money.

      • The winning card in the whole issue is how happy the people actually using the ACA are. We will not know that for a year or two. There is no way that anyone will have enough power to repeal the ACA at least until 2016; by that time there will be tens of million people getting health care through it and the ACA will have had enough time to have proven or not proven itself. There are enough National Memos out there to keep the crazy right in line too not worry about the 4th estate. The have lost this war, they just do not know it.

  11. News article—finally huffpost gets it…

    CBO Director: Actually, Obamacare Will Reduce Unemployment

    “”As the media has themselves confessed, they bought — hook, line and
    sinker — some of the talking points from our Republicans, and
    unfortunately misrepresentations go around the world three times before
    the truth begins to catch up,” Van Hollen said……..When you boost demand for labor in this kind of economy, you actually reduce the unemployment rate, because those people who are looking for work can find more work,” Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) asked Elmendorf.

    “Yes, that’s right,” Elmendorf responded.”

    A number of new organizations wrongly interpreted the agency’s report Wednesday as saying that Obamacare “killed” 2.5 million jobs. In reality, the agency found Obamacare could shrink the workforce by the equivalent of 2.5 million full-time workers over the next 10 years.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/05/cbo-director-obamacare_n_4732746.html

  12. I am a eighty-four year old Korean War Veteran, I believe In (Critical Thinking) What?, Why?, Who?, Where?, How? tools to think by. I have many degrees of education, and I am very healthy, mentally and psyscially, and I am glad to be an American, here are things that Works because of my being born in America. Social Security (WORKS), Obamacare (WORKS) Medicare(WORKS) Democracy (WORKS) so do not let somebody tell you otherwise, cause they are trying to up-set your apple-cart. Wake-up America your Democracy is under sieze and somebody is trying to replace YOUR Democracy with some Capitalism, Corporations, Privatelization, Plutocracy WHY? would you go through all that bull-s*** When? you got your Democracy. Keep an eye on those People Who? talk Negative about your President Who? is the leader of Your Country and the Protector of its People. Thank You are the magic words in my book. I Love Ya All. MR. C. E. KING

  13. I see I wandered into liberal heaven where the true believers reside…
    Let’s talk stupid, Mr. Dionne…

    However, the White House focused on the report’s claim that the loss of jobs will not be due to employers cutting back, but due to Americans choosing to voluntarily leave the workforce. White House spokesman Jay Carney said in a statement the report proves ObamaCare is allowing Americans to be “empowered” to make such a choice.

    However, the White House focused on the report’s claim that the loss of jobs will not be due to employers cutting back, but due to Americans choosing to voluntarily leave the workforce. White House spokesman Jay Carney said in a statement the report proves ObamaCare is allowing Americans to be “empowered” to make such a choice.

    What Mr. Carney neglects to state is how will people “leave” their jobs and still be able to afford the higher deductibles…
    I’d say Mr. Carney just lost the entire argument…

  14. “The reaction to the CBO study is an example of how willfully stupid — there’s no other word — the debate over Obamacare has become. Opponents don’t look to a painstaking analysis for enlightenment. They twist its findings and turn them into dishonest slogans. Too often, the media go along by highlighting the study’s political impact rather than focusing on what it actually says.”

    Yes—it was the knee jerk unprofessional editors at dozens of “news outlets” that published the GOP propaganda as fact… This disgusting display by “mainstream media.”

    They are abdicating their collective role as the “4th Estate.” Their job is to gain access to information that is essential to the health of democracy for at least two reasons. First, it ensures that citizens make responsible, informed choices rather than acting out of ignorance or misinformation. Second, information serves a “checking function” by ensuring that elected representatives uphold their oaths of office and carry out the wishes of those who elected them. The 4th Estate of government plays a crucial role in the lives of political candidates and issues. This is where the role of the media can become controversial….as we have seen with this bogus CBO propaganda being reported as facts…the 4th Estate failed.

    News reporting is supposed to be objective, but journalists are people, with feelings, opinions and preconceived ideas……The most important job the 4th Estate has is to provide Transparency and accountability for all elected officials. To do this, professional news organizations must have high standards of reporting that REQUIRE analysis of FACTS and to give a historic perspective to what they publish…profesional journalist craete artcles based in fact, not their opinion of the facts but the actual facts.

    In this case, the 4th Estate news media failed miserably. And the public has suffered with days of ad nauseum GOP/Teaparty propaganda disguised as facts simply because the 4th Estate failed to fact check—they became lazy and that is very dangerous for any Democracy.

    On a bright note yesterday–Finally… the AP raw news service gets it right by “fact checking” the wild GOP claims and finally srutinizing the CBO report:

    headline

    FACT CHECK: Anti-Obamacare chorus is off key

    excerpt

    “…..But some aren’t telling it straight. The analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office predicts the law will give several million people an opportunity to work less or not at all, because they won’t be stuck in jobs just for the sake of keeping the health insurance they get from employers. To some Republicans, that amounts to “wreaking havoc on working families,” “dire consequences for workers” and a shower of pink slips across the land –

    “….conclusions unsupported by the report.”

    read here

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_OVERHAUL_FACT_CHECK?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-02-05-20-44-46

    The American people get the government they deserve as well as a 4th Estate by either holding all accountable….or by acquiescing to propaganda ie accept no facts as facts reluctantly but without protest.

    Finally—the most important example of the 4th Estates failure in ferreting out facts was exposed 10 years ago today–President George W. Bush appointed a bipartisan commission to examine intelligence on Iraq’s weapons. (In a scathing 600-page report released in March 2005, the commission called the spy community “dead wrong on almost all of its prewar judgments” about Iraqi weaponry.)

    The media bought hook, line and sinker the false reasons for attacking Iraq and Afghanistan.

    And it fell victim to believing 2 miillion jobs would be lost due to the ACA..

    By the way—I would never consider Fox “News” to be a legitimate news gathering organization. They are only in the business of spreading lies, distortions and propaganda disguised as “facts.”

  15. Republican’s are the party of business owners, not workers. Did you miss the story about Eric Cantor having to explain to his colleagues that they should probably consider speaking to workers occasionally if they want more votes? http://washingtonexaminer.com/the-house-gops-incredible-amazing-discovery-most-americans-arent-entrepreneurs/article/2543254

    Of course something that favors workers and hurts business owners will be offensive to Republicans. Now they just need to distort the message into saying that this is somehow bad news for workers to their base and get them voting against their own interests.

    • Exactly— distort and mis-interpret facts…For example, the false blanket statement that you either afford to eat or pay your deductibles. It is a false choice because it leaves out the High Deductible plans combined with qualifying as a person earning 200% of poverty level,….If so, you get subsidized so that there is no deductible. High Deductible Health Plans typically feature lower premiums and higher deductibles than traditional insurance plans. As of 2013, HDHPs are plans with a minimum deductible of $1250 per year for individual coverage and $2500 for family coverage. If you have an HDHP, you can use a health savings account or a health reimbursement arrangement to pay for qualified out-of-pocket medical costs. This can lower the amount of federal tax you owe.

      IMPORTANT: And if you are at 200% poverty level you are subsidized….But–because it isn’t a true single payer ACA as Obama wanted….there will be a very small percentage of people who get caught having to pay a deductible if they fall in between the eligible subsidized amounts. Now THIS is where we need to EXPAND medicare coverage to cover these small minority of people…

  16. I agreed with every word you wrote, until you got to the part about betting on the intelligence of Americans. Americans believe what they wish to believe. Period.

  17. This plan is also creating job-les-ness, and permanent part-timers. Whoops there goes the increase in minimum wage because now you will be working less hours and making about the same as you were making with a lower minimum wage while working full time. Wow, what a brainfall. Along with all the increases in people’s plans. The kids won’t sign up and some people are planning on making less money so they won’t have to pay higher insurance premiums. Inciting laziness, you betcha. Where there’s a will there’s a way people will find a loophole to even get around this boondoogle. LOL, LOL, LOL…..and this is the genius plan that you all stand behind….. My, my, my ain’t socialism grand:)

    • Hogwash…
      Gotta think it through a bit better…

      We need to eliminate the minimum wage altogether and replace it, using the trillions of dollars spent in other social programs to create a guaranteed yearly income. This was prosed by both GOP and Democrats back in 1967…

      Let me outline before you have a heart attack…

      Lets take a $15/hour livable wage scenario:

      $15/hour is $420 a week 28 hours part time. $21840 yearly . Still poverty level.

      $15/hour full time is $600 a week/ $31200 yearly. Still near or at poverty if you consider family size.

      Federal poverty guidelines here:

      http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/tools-for-advocates/guides/federal-poverty-guidelines.html

      Therefore….the “minimum wage or livable wage” should be replaced with a guaranteed yearly income based upon Federal poverty statistics by state.

      Back in 1967 Dr. Martin Luther King and highly respected economists both Democrat and Repiublican proposed this a s a way to eliminate poverty once and for all.

      Concept is outlined here:

      http://www.progress.org/tpr/martin-luther-king-on-guaranteed-income-social-dividend/

      From the article:

      “Rev. Dr. King viewed the guaranteed income as the way to abolish poverty. It does have that effect, but when prRev. Dr. King viewed the guaranteed income as the way to abolish poverty. It does have that effect, but when properly funded (not touching earned income) and properly distributed (to all people), it becomes more than that — it can be a fundamental instrument of economic justice.operly funded (not touching earned income) and properly distributed (to all people), it becomes more than that — it can be a fundamental instrument of economic justice.”

      A guaranteed annual out of poverty level annual income would eliminate all antiquated social programs and nearly all entitlements. It would make this country the leader in eliminating poverty once and for all. In addition, We need livable affordable housing, and a justice system free from big money.

      The article link contains a dollar figure in 1967 as needing 20 billion to do this. In 1967 1 million dollars is now $6,978,113.77.

      7 times factoring inflation:

      http://inflationdata.com/Infla

      A 1000 million is a billion.

      Therefore—we would need only 140 billion. Easily obtainable by transfering that out of existing trillion dollar social programs.

      The poor are not poor. They pay taxes. have housing and the middle class is resurgent again.

      “Overcoming poverty is not a task of charity, it is an act of justice. Like Slavery and Apartheid, poverty is not natural. It is man-made and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings. Sometimes it falls on a generation to be great. YOU can be that great generation. Let your greatness blossom.” ……Nelson Mandela

      • From a human perspective your information sounds wonderful, however; aside from the figures what would increase the income of lower income earners is the fact that many would rather not work. In your article pertaining to MLK it would mean that those in poverty would have to take it upon themselves to be self sufficient.

        However, you are forgetting one player in this, the small business and young people who are less likely to get these upgraded pay scale jobs.

        Consider a community based pizza parlor selling 100 pies a day for 360 days at $10 each. Total revenue is $360,000. It employs 10 minimum wage workers earning $7 per hour, working 2000 hours a year, making
        labor costs $140,000. Assume rent, utilities, equipment, depreciation, insurance, supplies, licenses, and food costs come to $170,000 per year, leaving a profit of $50,000 for the owner and his/her family. Raising
        the minimum wage $1 would raise labor costs by $20,000 (paying more for the same amount of labor) and reduce profit to $30,000. The owner must either move into a smaller house or raise prices, which reduces the
        demand for pizza, resulting in the loss of a worker. So, the full increase in the wage cost of an increase in the minimum wage comes out of the pockets of customers or the owner’s family, and the one person who loses a job. There was no net gain in income to increase spending in the community served as every dollar the minimum wage workers received came out of someone else’s pocket in the community.

        AND…

        As a poverty program, raising the minimum wage is like killing flies with a shotgun, not very well targeted. About 60% of the officially poor don’t work, so the only thing raising the minimum wage does for
        them is to make it harder for them to get a job if they ever decide theywant one. Workers must bring at least as much value to the firm as they are paid or the firm will fail and all jobs will be lost (no GM bailouts are available to our 6 million small employers that employ half
        of our private sector workforce). Raising the minimum wage raises the hurdle a worker must cross to justify being hired.

        As a jobs program, raising the minimum wage is a real loser. Congress raised the minimum wage 10.6% in July, 2009 (know of anyone else gettinga raise then?). In the ensuring 6 months, nearly 600,000 teen jobs
        disappeared, even with nearly 4% growth in the economy, this compared to a loss of 250,000 jobs in the first half of the year as GDP growth declined by 4% Why? When you raise the price of anything, people take
        less of it, including labor. The unemployment rate for teens remains unacceptably high. Workers of all ages that are relatively unskilled are adversely impacted by this policy.

        Yes, the minimum wage will be a benefit to the poor who is solely works for a ‘Corporate business’ like McDonalds that is if they decide to work. However, for the small business owner the increased minimum wage. economically, is a burdensome business killer.

  18. In a word, the answer to the question posed by the title is “YES.”
    When one side of an argument must appeal to a base too ignorant and/or stupid to understand or accept reality, and when it insists on using any argument which might appeal to that base, there is no hope for intelligent discussion.

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