By Joe Conason

Paul Ryan Pal Claiming Credit For Romney’s ’47 Percent’ Blowup

September 20, 2012 11:24 pm Category: Memo Pad, Politics 140 Comments A+ / A-
Paul Ryan Pal Claiming Credit For Romney’s ’47 Percent’ Blowup

 

With so many Republicans frantically distancing themselves from Mitt Romney over those notorious remarks about the “47 percent” of Americans he views as tax-exempt moochers, there is at least one right-wing pundit proudly claiming responsibility for what Romney said.

Complaints from the right about “lucky duckies” too poor to pay taxes are nothing new, of course.   Yet although he may have to share the credit with his pal Paul Ryan, strong circumstantial evidence supports the boasting of Charles J. Sykes.

And if Sykes is right, then the excuses offered by Romney and Ryan about “inelegant” and “inarticulate” phrasing over the past few days are laughable.

A Milwaukee talk radio host and senior fellow at the right-wing Wisconsin Policy Research Institute, Charlie Sykes is also an author whose most recent book, published last winter by St. Martin’s Press, is titled A Nation of Moochers: America’s Addiction to Getting Something For Nothing. 

Only hours after  Mother Jones released the video of Romney trashing the Obama-supporting, self-pitying “victims” who don’t pay income taxes yet expect food, housing, health care and “you-name-it” from government, a post popped up on the Facebook page for A Nation of Moochers hinting that the book must have inspired his deep thoughts:

Romney suggests that it might be a problem that dependency is growing while the # of taxpayers shrinks. Who knew?
Was Mitt Romney suggesting that we are becoming a Nation of Moochers? And where would he ever gotten such an idea? Hmmmm….Wherever could [he] have gotten such notions? Maybe Paul Ryan is sharing his reading list.

Promotional flackery aside, Sykes can certainly make a strong circumstantial case. Handed the Sykes book, Romney would not have had to read beyond the first few pages to absorb the theme he expounded in Boca Raton. Toward the very beginning of Chapter One appears the following passage:

Even as more people become dependent on government, fewer were paying their share of the tab. By tax day in 2010, nearly half of U.S. households paid no federal income taxes. After years of cuts, credits, and outright rebates, 47 percent of households had no net liability at all.

Note how Sykes seamlessly melds two very distinct groups –those who receive some kind of benefit or assistance from government, and those who pay no federal income tax – precisely as Romney did, quite wrongly.

No wonder Sykes thinks Romney is channeling his ideas.

The obvious connection between Romney and Sykes would be Ryan. The book features a blurb from none other than the Janesville Congressman (which Sykes reposted on his book’s Facebook page this week):

Have I mentioned lately what Paul Ryan said about A Nation of Moochers?

Charlie Sykes’ A Nation of Moochers provides a much-needed wakeup call for a nation approaching two perilous tipping points: a moral one and a fiscal one. With our country facing unprecedented challenges and stark political choices, principled leaders will benefit from Sykes’ clear vision, keen insight and intellect. If we’re serious about getting our nation back on track, then we would be wise to follow the lessons laid out in A Nation of Moochers.” – Paul Ryan, Member of Congress

As a Representative from Wisconsin, Ryan has frequently appeared on Sykes’ radio show and at public events with him over the years, including a “Charlie Sykes Insight” conference last March – not long before Romney showed up for two days of pre-primary events in Ryan’s home state. Indeed, among those events was a March 22 appearance on Sykes’ radio program, during which Romney endorsed Ryan’s original budget and his privatization schemes for Medicare and Social Security. Would Sykes let a guest who was about to secure the Republican presidential nomination leave without a copy of his new book?

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Paul Ryan Pal Claiming Credit For Romney’s ’47 Percent’ Blowup Reviewed by on .   With so many Republicans frantically distancing themselves from Mitt Romney over those notorious remarks about the “47 percent” of Americans he views as   With so many Republicans frantically distancing themselves from Mitt Romney over those notorious remarks about the “47 percent” of Americans he views as Rating:

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  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003323311977 Faye Ward

    Paul Ryan what a joke republicans ,,makes you sick what a jerk…

  • ryueire

    The description of what moochers are looks very appropriate to how one would describe elitist tax evaders and uh…. Neo con republicans from the Bush/Cheney ilk.

    Talk about projection of your own weaknesses to others.

    Hypocrites.

    • http://www.facebook.com/fern.woodfork Fern Woodfork

      Let Him Keep On Running Off At The Mouth, I Can’t Wait Till October 3, 2012 At The Debates Where The Lies Will Stop Cause He Will Be Face To Face And The American People Can See What A Scumbag Romney Really Is!!! Obama/Biden 2012

      • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

        Fern, the problem is that the media depends on advertising from the wealthy. This means that they can deem some subjects off limits.

        • http://www.facebook.com/fern.woodfork Fern Woodfork

          The Media Depends One Who Got The Money! They Don’t have To Be Wealthy As Long As They Got The Money Period!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

      Most of my neighbors are Republicans. One close to my house has a 32 year old son and a 30 years old daughter who collect SSI and food stamps because they are bipolar. They sleep all day and party until the wee hours of the night. They support the Tea Party, and hate President Obama because he is a socialist helping bums live off the government!!! When I asked them how they could feel like that considering the fact that their two kids are collecting SSI and food stamps their answer was that the Democratic party is the party of ni….rs. I realize that most Republicans don’t think like that and that, but there are enough people with a mentality like them to swing an election.

  • bcarreiro

    corporate entities are tax exempt ………………we the 47% have written off the both of you.

    • http://www.facebook.com/fern.woodfork Fern Woodfork

      And Where Ever He (Romney Got It From He EGO) It’s Costing Him Votes!! Romney Seems To Be He Own Worst Enemy, He’s His Own One Man Wrecking Crew!! Just Keep On Talking Romney The More He Talk The More He Lose!! Now All We Need Is To See Those Tax Returns And That Should Put A End To His Low Life Campaign Built On Obama Bashing And Bald Face Lies!!!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/P3NXX7AD64NWRRT65INAEULVEU Don

        Romney and Ryan need to put that shoe back in your respectives mouths as they are saying much to much without preplanning their speaking as quack quack goes the duck.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dominick.vila.1 Dominick Vila

    The ability of Mitt Romney to tie President Obama in most polls immediately after his 47% comment and his irresponsible foreign policy statement is a testament to the strength of the convictions held by half of our population. As bizarre and illogical as it may seem, many of our fellow Americans are convinced that most African Americans and Democrats are on welfare, get food stamps, don’t work, and endorse any statement that contributes to the demonization of Islam, even when such statements compromise the lives of fellow Americans working in Muslim countries and our interests.
    The frequency of what we regard as Mitt Romney’s gaffes throughout the campaign, and the positive reaction those examples of apparent ineptitude elicit from so many people, suggest that his statements may be part of a strategy designed to appeal to a segment of our population whose decisions are influenced by preconceived beliefs so ingrained in their psyche that no amount of evidence, let alone logical thinking, will ever change.
    On a brighter note, if the electoral college vote remains as it is today President Obama will win easily. California, New York state and Illinois are solid blue; and with Florida, Ohio, Virginia and Pennsylvania leaning blue that only leaves Texas among our most populated states on the red camp, not enough to win an election. Carrying Texas, most of the South, and the Bible Belt is not enough to win an election. I expect lots of money spent in Florida, Ohio and Virginia the next few weeks. Fortunately, early voting and absentee ballot voting starts in some states, including Florida, as early as next week and there is a good chance the election will be decided before the first debate takes place.
    Regarding debates, let’s not forget that they often favor the challenger, who is usually seen as the underdog because he does not have access to all the information an incumbent President enjoys. All they have to do is share the stage with the incumbent and their stature is automatically elevated. Add a couple of cute retorts and public opinion will lean in favor of the challenger. This election is not about facts, the truth, or arithmetic, it is all about whether or not the GOP can convince people that the policies and the decisions they made when W was in office were just an aberration, and that they now solutions that will lead to morning in America without us sacrificing anything.

    • http://www.facebook.com/fern.woodfork Fern Woodfork

      Obama Still Leading In The Polls Cause Romney Big Mouth Is Wrecking His Own Campaign, Now His Wife Is Having A Fit On The American Taliban Saying They Are Lucky To Have Her Husband!! LOL You May Think So Ann But The Rest Of The American Taliban Wants To Whoop Your Husband Ass!!! LOL But They Are Stuck With His Butt Now They Have To Suffer With His Butt LOL

    • frivolous01

      Dominic, you are exactly right. I had a very heated FB war with family members who agreed with Romney that nearly half of the country are moochers. It was like repeatedly beating my head into a wall, they are so determined to get Obama out of office that I really think that someone could release a video of Romney conducting ritual sacrifices and they’d still vote for him!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/XARAYZ6D6QSAZLE4SWTOQR3TFE Linda

        Same here — I have a relative who calls me a Marxist because I think Social Security is a good idea and should be fixed.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/HUAPJTKZ6USWUKL6TK535ACUPA James Curran

          I am a white,hetrosexual male,73 years of age,been working since I was 9 years old.I am collecting social security,and a small pension.If it wasn’t for the “so called handouts”yes I’m part of the 47% I suppose,I would be dead if it wasn’t for the health care act,and would starve to death or would not be living in a house if it wasn’t for social security.I may be a socialist but shouldn’t we all because,I don’t know about you,I paid a higher % in taxes last year than Romney did.

    • darkagesbegin

      ” Americans are convinced that most African Americans and Democrats are on welfare, get food stamps, don’t work…”

      that is the beauty of the Big Lie…and Republicans have been using it for years so much so that they have warped the thinking process of Americans. I mean, no one can be “liberal” now because they have linked “tax & spend” with liberal since about 1962. If you tell a big lie often enough, it becomes the truth and “a fool sees what he believes” and is not capable of rational analysis any longer.

      • TheSkalawag929

        We allowed the republicans to define who we are as Liberals.
        That is was our mistake.
        We need to take OUR identity back.
        It’s time to define our selves. I’m a Liberal and proud of it.

        • http://alogon.myopenid.com/ Alogon

          I’m a liberal and proud of it, and I’m a conservative and proud of it. My definition of conservative, of course, is very straightforward: I want to conserve good things, including liberty. As far as I can see, that means I must vote for Obama. Romney calls himself a conservative, but in reality he wants to take us at warp speed into uncharted territory– or more precisely, allow private enterprise to do so. The “conservative” label is part of the smoke screen, sheep’s clothing donned to appeal to the many who sense that this country is changing too damn fast, and in unattractive ways, and want someone to apply the brakes. What they don’t understand is that the private sector has been the agent of most of these changes and he’ll actually just give it the green light.

          When I have the time, I’m going to spend a little more of it perusing the web site of the American Conservative journal. You might be amazed how little they love the GOP and particularly Romney. Can there be a whole magazine now for those who see things the way I do?

          • TheSkalawag929

            I’ll have to check it out myself.

          • johninPCFL

            Important facts, the original American conservatives were called “Tories”. The “liberals” were the revolutionaries.

            The most socially conservative religious groups today are Islamist. Mandatory prayers five times per day, dictates as to grooming and behavoiur, strict societal structures and ethics.

            The most socially conservative body of law today is Sharia. The penalty for theft is loss of the hand, the penalty for adultery is death by stoning, the penalty for religious conversion is death – both for the converter and the convert.

          • http://www.facebook.com/fern.woodfork Fern Woodfork

            You Got To Know This Territory Already Been Charted That What’s Got Us In The Trouble We Are In!! Trickle Down Only Works For The Rich!!!

        • neece00

          I am a liberal and proud as well, thank you.

          • TheSkalawag929

            Thank you

          • http://www.facebook.com/fern.woodfork Fern Woodfork

            More Breaking News Paul Ryan Got Booed Off Stage At A AARP Meeting LOL I Guess He Think He Can Keep Repeating Those Lies Over And Over Again!! LOL People Are Getting Tried Of The LIES!!! LOL

          • neece00

            Another breaking news today Boehner: GOP Won’t Raise Taxes On Wealthy, Even If Obama Reelected

          • http://www.facebook.com/fern.woodfork Fern Woodfork

            The Tax Breaks For The Wealthy Ends At The End Of The Year!!!! Obama Don’t Have To Do NOTHING They End On Their OWN!!!!LOL

          • old_blu

            That’s why they are working (lying) so hard to get in before it does.

          • 1concernedsenior

            That Jerkweed Boehner is gonna be sweeping floors at the pen, when we get done with him. Also Mitch Mc connell can go into retirement at the glue factory. He can be a volunteer for shock therapy at the lunny bin!!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Jones/827014412 Daniel Jones

          I *am* a conservative liberal, not a (Gordon) Gecko with a sore throat. I believe in careful use of money, and a strong defense of our rights and freedoms–including from our own government.

          I believe in avoiding waste, so we have funds to spare to support our fellow man, as we ourselves would appreciate support in time of trouble in return.

          I believe that Tammany Hell is not a proper replacement for Capitol Hill.

          I believe that the time is coming that the parties must recommit themselves to the people or be abandoned, as has happened before.

          I believe that the current cynical and hindering activities of certain politicians could rightfully be construed and prosecuted as *sedition* if not outright treason.

          • TheSkalawag929

            “I *am* a conservative liberal…” I bet that makes for some interesting conversations in your head. No disrespect. Just a passing thought.

        • grammyjill

          I just tell people I’m a realist.

          • TheSkalawag929

            It’s good to define yourself.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/YZ4ZDOGFXIEYPVLFK4YGWJKKWA Clever Bob

        dark: We have Republicans in Michigan who don’t bother with the tax part of the equation; they waste and spend, spend and waste, and it’s all on credit as they hate taxes . . . Have we had enough?

    • TheSkalawag929

      Very nice. I’m a Fan.

    • mjw1952

      When the reality is, as shown on many websites, the red states have much higher poverty than blue states.

      • neece00

        And if you were to check the statistics of states that take more money from the government with regard to different programs, you will find them to be red states as well.

      • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

        Mississippi is one of the reddest states in the union and uses the most money from the government in welfare. It also has the lowest collective I.Q. go figure.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonny-Dancer/100003939186029 Jonny Dancer

      Texas is a dead red state where there are no free competitive elections.

      It is all controlled by the NEOCONs and the Religious Right!

      It is well on its way to becoming another NAZI Germany like society, using the names such as The Tea Party, conservative etc!

      It is the prime example of what the USA would become if the GOP would win this next election. A hell on earth!

      • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

        Jonny, I have seen a lot of fascist like things come out of Texas. Rewriting the textbooks to show that jews, oh cross that out, some is inferior. The banning of books. Someone across the water did that.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/VX3MESOIL4ED5RKF432WAV7CCU big mushroom

      You got more white folks in America on welfare than African americans and hispanics And everyone know this but the white racist in the country likes to blame all their dislikes on people of color. Most of these white’s I am refering to stay in these RED states and are so poor that they have substandard living conditions and stay in trailer parks and old cabins, but because of lies and a racist upbringing, they are going to vote for Romney and Ryan who has allready proving that he does not give a shit about them, as he got caught call them moochers, and he happens to have called that the that the poor white class who will vote for him as poor white trash, and because of their bigoted beliefs they cannot see that all these Millionairs want is their vote. You may be poor and you may be white, but don’t you know that these two men can’t see nothing but green. You my poor white southern brothers and you two in the north are about to be steped on and fucked by two rich white Millionaires. What the fuck do Romney want with a job that pays only 400 thousand a year, when he makes 12.5 million a year of interest off the 250 million he has got in the bank. Plus he is got money hidden away that we are not counting. I’ll tell you why, he is going to rapr this country to make his rich friends richer, and when he gets out of office, the friends he made richer, will in turn reciprocate and make him richer, And offfer his five sons millions in job offers, when they should be serving in the military just like the poor folks who have all way gave their blood and guts for this country and our freedoms. Romney want to increase personel in the services, but his sons aint going to leave those millions to go get shot at or get their arems and legs blow off. Its allways been the middle and lower classes in this country that has defended the rights and freedoms we have. You can’t drag a rich motherfucker out of a country club to defend our rights and freedoms. Thats right send them poor motherfuckers over there to fight, they ain’t got nothing to lose, Send me another drink and send a drink to that preety bitch and teel her I am a Millionare, and a rich lover and not a fighter. In other words. I am a selfseving republican, greedy Rat soup eating, untrustworthy SON- Of- A- BITCH. Have a nice day REPUGNANTS

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/Q4545NAMFVHVVSFDYNMEZD4GZQ MLS

      DV, Appreciate your intelligent comments based on facts & educated opinions. If only this type of dialog exists between the “tea party conservatives” & “old Republicans”, civil discussions would exist. Absent facts & intelligent opinions, we’re left with lies & twisted opinions going all the way back to Obama’s candidacy, election & during his 1st term. It was a mistake to expect Romney, with his background & intellect, to change the tenor. He was so focused to get the Republican nomination, it must have been a no starter on his part to change gear from the centrist that he was to the extreme tea party “leader” that he is now. In the process, it’s apparent he lost his “soul”. Notice when his extemporaneous discussion takes him to universal health care, parts of which he agrees with & care about. Unfortunately, it’s not part of the tea party republican play book, so his staff immediately announces a correction that he had “misspoken”. If Romney was true to himself, he would stand up to his staff & stand by his statement. Instead, he’s been allowing members of his staff to continue following his personal statements as
      “missteps”. These incidents are one of many that sadly indicates Romney is & will be a puppet of the “new tea party republicans”. If Eisenhower were still alive, he would not recognize the new tea party republicans especially with the added insult of the required signature of each elected official including Romney by a non-elected lobbyist Norquist to never increase taxes. Whoever allowed him to get away with this nonsense should be banned along with Norquist, from ever stepping into the halls of Congress.

  • old_blu

    So someone is trying to bail them out.

    Obama/Biden 2012

    signed the 47%

    • http://www.facebook.com/fern.woodfork Fern Woodfork

      BREAKING NEWS This Should Be No Surprise To All The People Who See The Real Mitt Romney, He Is The Reason Why Monsanto Is Such A Huge Biotech Giant!! You Know Monsanto The Company That Put The Poison In Our Food!!

      • old_blu

        Good morning Fern, I know exactly who you are talking about, they were caught putting poison in all the worlds foods.

        BTW, I love reading what you say, and I shouild have signed future 47%er.

  • cwalter911

    If one looks at the scorecard one finds that Mitt Witt overlooked the corporatis feeding at the governments tits. How about the preferential tax treatment for the oil companies? We can go on to list agricultural subsidies to farmers, ethanol plants, and other enterprises. Look at the tax code and you will see an amazing amount of tax revenues going to corporations. Examine to see the effective tax rate for many corporations and you will see how many pay only a few percent in income tax.

    As a veteran remember our troops in combat zones pay zero income tax, and does Mitt Witt think that they are moochers.

    In total dollar amount the corporati gain the lion’s share of tax spending on their behalf.

    As for social security and medicare/medicaid being entitlements damn right we the people pay split the cost with the corporati. The cost of these programs is calculated in what economists call the “wage package” and we have earned it through our labor.

    And, as Abe Lincoln stated in his inaugural address “labor is superior to capital”. Now that is the type of Republican one can vote for.

    • johninPCFL

      It’s a nice, simple equation. If corporations paid lower taxes, they’d have more money to distribute as dividends. Tons of Mitt’s money comes from dividends, so lower corporate taxes equals more money for him.

  • st louis sue

    Maybe social programs should be paid back by the likes of Romney and Ryan since their families benefitted from the programs they think are so bad. Oh, that’s right they not only don’t pay back the likes of them continue to apply for money – Ryan and his WI people wanted the very money he said he wouldn’t and then did apply for! The GOP is a bad joke!

  • jarheadgene

    Oh Yeah it’s O.K. if Romney’s dad used Welfare…..and it’s O.K. if Ryan used Social Security to pay for college……BUT THEY SAY the BIG…..F……U…..to anyone else. And want to demonize those social programs…….HYPOCRITES. BROOD of VIPERS. SNAKES. You are white washed tombs. On the outside clean and polished but on the inside is nothing but death.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Jar, I haven’t researched into how old Romney’s dad was when he got welfare, but here is how it works with polygamy. Horny daddy marries three or four wives. He can’t support all of them and their place is at home. They go on welfare as single mothers.

      • neece00

        Your right, single mother with multiple children.

  • Mimi2kool

    Gotta love the hypocrisy of the “Do as I say, not as I do” crowd. Wait, no, I don’t.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/CJN6HYIGKG24KHWS27EPEMQ6GI A Concerned Citizen

    Many older people, like myself,paid into Social Security and Medicare for years before retirement, yet we are labled moochers and now many feel discriminated against because of their age.

    • neece00

      But it is your generation that made us who we are and we are very appreciative of your guidance.

  • latebloomingrandma

    It beats me how Romney figures he can insult almost half the country and expect to be President. He has been on every side of every possible subject, I don’t know how he’ll best Obama in the debates. His campaign is a disaster. His Presidency would be a nightmare.

    • johninPCFL

      Most of those targeted firmly believe he’s talking about “the other guy, not me”. You can insult and denegrate “the other guy” all you want.

  • sadikifu

    How does Paul claim responsibility for what MittRomney said? Was Mitt sitting on Ryan’s lap while Ryan operated the lever inside Mitt’s back moving his head and mouth throwing his voice? If Ryan is claiming responsibilty for what Mitt said about the “47% of Americans” then Mitt is displaying the ability to follow not to lead. I apologize for Mitt for making the insulting remarks about our citizens however, I think Mitt genuinley feels this way. America’s biggest weakness is that we are living in a “US” vs. “Them” country; The sad part is, we are on the world stage and the rest of the world are probably making bets on who is going to win. It hurts me to say that if the GOP does not win, then they will continue to use juvenile tactics acting like sore losers instead of helping to rebuild this country and the rest of the world. I can see it now, Rush Limbaugh, George W. Bush, Mitt Romney and all the other extremists stomping their feet and pouting. I also see a lot of racial overtones.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      If Paul Ryan takes responsiblity for what Willard of Oz says, perhaps it will be like Bush and Cheney. Mitt will be a puppet and Ryan will pull the strings.

      • darkagesbegin

        doesn’t it go further back than that, to Ron and Nancy, our first woman president?

  • http://www.facebook.com/streid1945 Stephen Reid

    I see that you people wants to live under a SOCIALIST WELFARE STATE COUNTRY in which IT well destory the CONSTITUTION! It will also drive the Rich to leave and also to put their money in off shore account there won’t BE freedom or free Enterprise NOBODY well be hireing NO BUS.
    YOU WELL SEE RIOT LIKE IN FRANCE . this will be come a third world country and it well be DOWN GRADE IN FINANCE TO A POINT in which we well never recover from it. Under
    OBAMA as President many of is project has FAIL, not because of Republican, but he has GONE AROUND both the House and Senate and THE SUPREME COURT to get what he wanted, no meeting with the republican to MEET IN THE MIDDLE! HIS WAY OR HIGHWAY! until the
    Far Left Socialist Dem. and the Far Right Republican STOP DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND MEET IN MIDDLE or going to have BIG MESS on our hands I would like to see the
    HOUSE AND THE SENATE CLEAN HOUSE THAT INCLUDING THE FAR LEFT DEM.
    AND THE FAR RIGHT REPUBLICAN. Why can’t we have just PLAINE DEM. and
    PLAINE Republican meet in the middle. OBAMA GOT TO STOP OVER SPENDING OR DRIVE THIS COUNTRY OVER THE CLIFF ON FINANCE! THIS IS HOW I FEEL AS A TAXEPAYER
    AND I AM NOT THE ONLY, THERE ALOT OF US! Sorry I am shouting but I have too!

    • Not_Phyllis

      Chill, dude! Fix a cup of chamomile or take a walk around the block. Your hatred is not healthy.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/2HFAMZ5YPOGRUCRHH3WLSEHGGU D K

      Stephen……..why wern’t you worried in 2008. I’ll bet you voted for bush. Go back to reagan, and look up the stats for how much each adminstration increased the deficit. Obama is at the bottom of the list. Bush spent money like a drunken sailor. Go ahead and look it up.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Stephen, I didn’t see any facts, just talking points you got from the far right who are trying to destroy one party and take over the other.

      Greed and Ignorance are the two greatest problems in the world and greed feeds off ignorance.

    • bobbreinig

      so yoou think that if the rich don’t get there way they will just take there toys and go home ,,but you forget its the middles class that supports the rich,, we buy their products ,, we use there services,, they need us more than we need them,, and where would they go to enjoy the same things they get here ,, any other place in the world doesn’t kiss the rich’s ass like we in the US do,,lower taxes they might find ,, but where else will they find the same freedom

    • Justin Napolitano

      Stephen Obama is not the big spender you think he is.

      Here are the facts, according to the official government statistics:
      • In the 2009 fiscal year — the last of George W. Bush’s presidency — federal spending rose by 17.9% from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion. Check the official numbers at the Office of Management and Budget.
      • In fiscal 2010 — the first budget under Obama — spending fell 1.8% to $3.46 trillion.
      • In fiscal 2011, spending rose 4.3% to $3.60 trillion.
      • In fiscal 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the budget that was agreed to last August.
      • Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion. Read the CBO’s latest budget outlook.
      Over Obama’s four budget years, federal spending is on track to rise from $3.52 trillion to $3.58 trillion, an annualized increase of just 0.4%.
      There has been no huge increase in spending under the current president, despite what you hear

      The country has to pay the bills that have come due. This is money already spent thanks to Bush, I and II and Reagan.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Where are your facts, Stephen?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JMT6C3LHLJDD4RX4NB4KY5ICAE gargray

    Proud to be a liberal. all Americans are liberals, defination ( FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE ) our ancestors the immigrants.

  • karinursula

    Yes what surprises me, that even some of older voters who receive SS will vote for Romney, don’t they realize that Romney lumps them with the 47%.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

    I agree. John McCain is far more desirable (never thought I’d ever have to say that) than Romney. John Mccain would have never gone the way of national destruction like Romney/Ryan and Palin. When we consider these individuals, we have to ask “Where is Homeland Security in this?” When we consider what Romney/Ryan, their Super PACs, the Republican/Tea Party is planning to do, it calls up the definition of treason. Any citizen, any American, who would seek to internally destroy the country that they were born and bred in is a traitor to his/her fellow citizens, his/her fellow Americans. They dislike Muslims, so they can’t be loyal to alQaeda, the Taliban, Hezbollah, Hamas, or the Muslim Brotherhood. They call President Obama a “communist” so they can’t be too Red, though the Republican color is red. Hmmm. Is it wealth? Are they loyal to money, Mammon? Is it religion, since Mammon is their god? They are white supremacists, but their attacks are not just aimed to hurt ethnic groups, but other whites as well, the poorer the better. Or, are we witnessing the emerging of a new cult analogous to the Masons, Illuminati, Boule’s, Skull and Bones, etc.? Is this the revenge of the Confederates? Remember that the Confederates were attempting to seek alliance with Great Britain to help them overthrow America in 1861, and again forcefully overthrew the Louisiana State Government in 1868 in hopes of causing a widespread white supremacist revolution in the U.S. That brings us back to treason. It seems every indicator points to treason. Only the shadow knows.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Sure looks like there is a group that is trying to destroy one party and take over the other one. They won’t have too much trouble either. I looked up mean IQ scores for each states and the average IQ today is only double digit. That is why you see so many people who let belicose loud mouths tell them what to think.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XIZN7RDZ4K5UZTH7JD24IPSN3A Mohave Bob

    I love it when a totally healthy couple with a couple of kids checks out in front of me at the store and used their EBT cards for $125 of groceries then wips out the cash for 2 packs of smokes and a 30 pack. Frickin awesome…

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/7ZHGPDA753LWMIHOXIQ3AA64PQ Montpelier

      That poor couple is smoking and drinking because they are probably depressed about their present predictament

      • Dave_dido

        Amen, Montpelier. Kind of like people who worry themselves sick because they don’t have any health insurance!

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      This is an urban legend that has been around since I can remember. Clinton signed into law welfare reform that only allows people to ge on welfare two years. Seeing as how you are doctor who gave this couple a full exam, you should know how healthy they are. Next time you witness this, supreptisiously take a picture and post it for us. They might have been given emergency relief for a purpose or,as I suspect, it is just a talking point and you didn’t actually see it happen. BTW, I don’t snoop to see how the person in front of me, in line, is paying for his groceries.

  • CarolO

    Where did Romney get the notion he could insult London, China, Russia (twice) and now the leaders of Palenstine? And stick his nose into the Libya problem pretending he has a clue what was going on.
    He needs to get out of politics forever and sit around and read and do crossword puzzles.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Carol, imagine him and foreign policy. When he was going to Poland, I wouldn’t have been surprised if he had tried to tell a pollock joke.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/YZ4ZDOGFXIEYPVLFK4YGWJKKWA Clever Bob

    I find your article interesting and speculative, having said this, there is more to the story: You see, it was finally stated that the number of bums on the take was 47%, however, before it aired it was to be 51%, and then 50%, and then 55%, and then 45%, and then, aw let’s make it an odd 47% . . . An agent of change; huge numbers of them. Does Romney even know where and for what he stands?

  • http://twitter.com/Jeanabella Jeanabella

    The day will come when these right wing ideologues will go back under their respective rocks.
    That day can’t come too soon since this recent emergence of the fundamentalist psychotic presence in the form of Congressmen, GOP Governors, Right wing Bishops, Corp. Banksters, Koch Bros., Karl Rove et all, etc. who have been embedded in our government, making laws by corporations (ALEC), used language gurus like Frank Luntz to demonize the Democratic message by dividing the public against the poor & workers.

    I place the Media at the top of the list of where to lay blame.

    After all, without the 4th estate, where do we go to get the facts. Now if only the media would report the facts.

  • ObozoMustGo

    Joe Conason, head useful idiot at The Memo, once again succeeds at filling up 2 pages of completely irrelevant text, yet says nothing. Congratulations, Joe! I see that the Obozo campaign propaganda machine still has you marching to the tune of the 47% comment. Instead of addressing that fact, you engage in your typical yellow journalism and instead levy personal attacks at some back bencher talk show host from jerkwater Wisconsin.

    Left out in this article is the truth. That 47% of Americans do not pay any Federal Income Tax. This is IRS data, not Charlie Sykes’ data. The fact is that our country is going broke quickly and nearly half of us either don’t pay anything or actually are net takers from the government.

    And what this discussion of the 47% really does is point out the absolute foolishness of Obozo’s claim that “the rich don’t pay their fair share”. That “fair share” claim is nothing but a stoker to the flames of jealousy and envy amongst the stupid class of leftist freaks and useful idiots that buy such claptrap. If we really want a fair tax system, it should be flat. Everyone pays the same rate. No loopholes, no deductions.

    [click image to enlarge]

    Have a nice day!

    “You cannot make the poor man rich by making the rich man poor.” – Winston Churchill

    • old_blu

      @Bozo– I can get behind the flat tax idea, I wonder why it hasn’t been done yet, and most likely never will.

      • ObozoMustGo

        It’s my boy blu! How’s it going blu? I hope you are well.

        I agree with you that we are not likely to see the flat tax until we see financial armegeddon. The reason is that the tax code is the single largest and strongest means of manipulating the people. You see, the politicians have their visions of what society should be. The tax code is is the whip they use to herd the people in their desired direction. The only hope we have of seeing a flat tax is if more and more of us that vote them in from BOTH sides of the aisle begin to demand it. But it’s going to be hard to get them to give up their whips. Sadly.

        Have a nice day, blu!

        “By rendering the labor of one, the property of the other, they cherish pride, luxury, and vanity on one side; on the other, vice and servility, or hatred and revolt.” – James Madison

        • old_blu

          Not very often do you and I agree Bozo, but on this we do.

          I hope you have good day also Bozo, thank you.

        • neece00

          If you had your flat tax rate, you and your buddy, Mr. Mittens will have to pay the same percent that I pay every year. My current 28% to his 14%.

          • ObozoMustGo

            nee… you’re obviously too stupid to know the difference between wage or salary income, and investment income like dividends. They are treated differently for good reason. Dividend income has already been taxed at the corporate rate of up to 35%, the highest in the world. No wonder companies leave America. Now you can bitch and moan about rates, but you never talk real money. That’s just your stupid little mind allowing the left to play tricks on your inflated sense of jealousy and envy. Further, what do you think the effect on retirees that live off of their investment income from pensions and savings would be if they had to double their taxes? Didn’t think about that, did you? You’re just so clouded with jealousy that you cannot see to think rationally. What do you think the effects on the stock market would be if investment costs (yes taxes are costs because they eat into returns) were driven higher? Would all those middle class people with 401K’s and IRA’s and savings investments be hurt, or just rich guys? You are a fool.

            One more point… guess who signed into law the cap gains rate of 15%? Come on…… you know……….. that’s riiiiiiigght… Your blowjob boy Clinton did it…. And he’s defended it to this day. So STFU

            Have a nice day!

            “You cannot make the poor man rich by making the rich man poor.” – Winston Churchill

          • Justin Napolitano

            Obozo, except that corporations actually pay less then 16% after all of the loopholes are applied. One simple truth exists and that is the rich in this country have more money than ever before. The top 10% have 90% of all of the wealth in the country. That is an imbalance that can not be sustained much longer. I am working on a device that was employed during the French Revolution that will, one day, make things more equitable. Either we find a way to help the middle class or they will help themselves. You can count on it especially since the middle class is armed to the teeth.
            Who do you think they are going to rob, the poor slob or the rich guy?

          • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

            Corporations have been ruled to be people so they should be taxes accordingly.

          • Dave_dido

            You’re wrong about the double taxation, Obozo, and therefore shouldn’t be so quick to insult others. It is true that money going into an investment has usually already been taxed. I say usually because some instruments such as IRA’s and 401k’s use pre-tax dollars. These are called “qualified” investments because they qualify for special treatment under the IRS code. “Qualified” investments get taxed when they come back to you and they are 100% taxable because no tax was ever paid on the principle or the interest that was gained on the principle.If it’s not a “qualified” investment, you pay tax only on the interest that the investment made because the principle was already taxed.The interest is the only part that gets taxed and that’s because it never was taxed before.There’s no double taxation. I’m surprised that a man of your astuteness doesn’t already know this.
            Now here’s a question for you regarding the taxation of capital gains. Wealthy people make money through investments, not by the sweat of their brow. Some of them never have to work a day in their lives. Why should their way of making a living be taxed at a lower rate than the working guy who has to bust his butt for every dollar he earns?
            Third point. You ask what would be the effect on the stock market if investments were taxed higher. The answer is that capitalists would probably pull their money out of the market and get back to doing what capitalists, like Andrew Carnegie, used to do: that is, use their capital to start up businesses and actually create jobs. The reason trickle down doesn’t work today is that capitalists can hide their money offshore or invest in the stock market and pay a lower tax rate on capital gains.They used to create jobs.
            Fourth point. Yes, our corporate taxes are high. That’s because we are the most powerful economy in the world and it takes a lot of money to have all of the support systems that a giant economy requires. I’m talking about transportation, legal and educational systems, mail service, communication networks, patent offices, a commerce dept., health, safety and environmental offices. These all cost money. Come to America and drive a Cadillac or go to Estonia and drive a Yugo.
            Finally, I’m not necessarily opposed to a flat tax, but other than tax attorneys, you’d get the biggest objection from wealthy people. Do you think Mitt Romney wants to pay the same percentage as Warren Buffet’s secretary?

          • Justin Napolitano

            Obozo, you don’t speak for the elderly or the retired. First the tax increase in capital gains and dividends would have little effect because the retired and elderly are in a much lower tax bracket.
            Most people have very little dividends and capitals gains compared to the rich and idol. Unless you have been living on another planet have you not noticed that the rich have gotten far richer. the Forbes top 400 richest people increased their wealth by 13% or 221 billion dollars in just that last year while the average working American lost ground. At the rate we are going the middle class will be gone and the rich will have everything. I guess in your mind that is just financial Darwinism where the most clever own everything.
            Perhaps the greatest threat to our country and our democracy is the imbalance in ownership of real assets by the middle class. There is a tipping point and I believe we are close to it. Romney/Ryan are not the answer, they are the problem.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Nappy… is the economy a fixed pie, or a pie that continues expanding?

          • Justin Napolitano

            Obozo, Unfortunately it is not expanding for those in the middle class. What we have is more and more people working for less and less money. Instead of, say, 100 million people working for 4 trillion dollars in wages we now have 120 million people working for the same money. That is exactly what is happening to the middle class in that they working just as hard but making less money. The pie is expanding for the rich who now have 120 million people working for them and not paying more for their services. And it is in fact why Social Security and Medicare taxes are not growing and can’t grow if total wages do not grow.
            It is exhausting to continue to repeat the same old statistics that the rich are getting richer while the middle class and poor are getting poorer. Every single economists has stated this fact and yet it somehow doesn’t sink in to people like you that think 47% of Americans are dog shit and unworthy of living.

          • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

            Calling Justin names makes me think your digestive system is upside down.

          • old_blu

            Bozo you and I go back a little and I know you can explain this stuff, and do a good job of it, and do it in a civil way.

          • ObozoMustGo

            It’s my boy blu! How are you blu? Been gone all weekend and just getting back. You are correct, I could probably be more civil. It’s just a real weakness of mine that I do not suffer fools so easily. Sorry! :-(

            Have a great day, blu!

            “Rule of thumb… never trust what comes from the mouth of a socialist politician. They are only lying to you so they can spend other people’s money to build up their own power base and bureaucracy.” – ObozoMustGo

          • old_blu

            Good morning Bozo, You know once in awhile I get a little foul myself, and I shouldn’t, sometimes it’s hard not to.

            I hope you have a good day Bozo, and thanks for the answer.

          • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

            I have read Neeceoo posts in the past. She is an excellent researcher which beats someone who is so funtionally illiterate he has to have right wing blogs and faux news tell him what to think. Why should capital gains taxes be lower than income tax? It is income and usually only pays off to those who have a lot of money to invest.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OLT3BBICDAFJXQAHHKXXLJUCH4 Stella53

      Lol! When is Romney going to show his income tax returns so that the nation can find out if he’s one of the 47%?

    • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

      Bozo, everything you say is filtered through your chauvinistic ideology. As people reach higher income brackets they pay more taxes, except for the wealthy.

      • ObozoMustGo

        Mags… our problem is that not enough Americans pay income taxes. The tax base must be more broad. It’s getting more and more narrow. Funny how you leftist freaks whine over the former Bush tax cuts, now the Obozo tax cuts since he signed it into law 2 years ago. What’s odd is that the rates established by Bush actually increased the percentage of Americans that don’t pay income tax from around 40% to 47%, meaning the tax burden was futher concentrated on the top 50% of taxpayers. Isn’t this the objective of you leftist freaks?

        By the way, Romney pays the exact same rate as everyone else does on dividend or LT gains. His source of income is dividends and long term capital gains that are taxed differently than wage imcome, as they should be. Investment income was already taxed when it either was earned directly through salary and then used in investment, or at the corporate level before it was paid out. You see, dividend payments made by a company are NOT deductible from income, and are therefore taxed before they are distributed at up to 35%, the highest corporate tax rate in the world. This is double taxation. There should be no taxes on dividends or capital gains. By the way, do you know who signed into law the rate of 15% tax on dividends and LT cap gains? That’s riiiiigggghhhhht! Clinton did that one. Thanks Slick Willie. While he was getting blow jobs from Monica, he actually did something right.

        Have a nice day!

        “The problem is not that people are taxed too little, the problem is that government spends too much.” – Ronald Reagan

        • dtgraham

          I get the need to account for double and triple taxation like a little lower dividend rate, or a dividend tax credit (Canada), or a dividends received deduction for dividends issued from a consolidated entity (U.S.). If capital gains income is derived from a flow through investment in a corporation which has already been taxed on that capital gain, fine. Otherwise I think the full tax rate should be paid and not some lower amount.

          The problem that I have is the original rate of tax paid at source. In the U.S., federal corporate tax is imposed at graduated rates. There are lower rate brackets that are phased in on taxable income under $335,000.00. The rates of 34 to 35 percent only begin to apply above that. Furthermore, tax rates imposed below the federal level vary widely by jurisdiction, from under 1% to about 16% with state and local taxes allowed as tax deductions in computing federal taxable income.

          I’ve seen some numbers on actual net corporate taxes collected by the U.S. government. 35% is often quoted but only about 13% of corporate income is ever collected as taxes by the government due to all the loopholes in the U.S. corporate tax code. That’s about the lowest in the developed world. I read one of your posts one time where you were furious about people not seeing the actual net result or effect of things, and merely looking at stated numbers, so you should relate to this.

          To me, this is part and parcel of tax revenues in the U.S. being at historically low levels. At some point you have to have the revenues needed to balance budgets, while being able to keep the kind of social programs that give people a hand up and also look after the poor, the sick, and the old.

          “If you take measures to prevent peaceful revolution, you will guarantee the inevitability of violent revolution.”
          -John F Kennedy.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Hi dt! I trust you are well. I am busy. Too busy to dig deep into this one because you bring up many issues.

            Right on about double taxation. Completely disagree with your premise that we are undertaxed. We are way overtaxed and way over-manipulated with a tax code that’s so damned complex that hardly a person can understand it too well. While I understand you guys in Canada love the socialist thing, we here in the States do not. You guys can be socialists and we’ll drive the world’s economy with freedom and free market economics. Our tax code must be made fair. The 47% are NOT paying their fair share. In fact, they are paying nothing, but they benefit. This must end. Institute a flat tax that applies to everyone’s income the same, except at the very bottom 10%. This is fair for everyone because everyone is treated the same. Get rid of loopholes and deductions. Lower the rate, broaden the tax base, and the economy will explode with growth. This is especially true if we get Obozo the hell out from occupying the White House like those thugs in NYC.

            Gotta run. Nice ranting with you dt.

            Have a nice day!

            “The problem is not that people are taxed too little, the problem is that government spends too much.” – Ronald Reagan

          • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

            bozo, check your facts. The United States pays the lowest of any of the industrialized countries.

        • Justin Napolitano

          Obozo, again you are wrong. Corporations enjoy the infrastructure that all of us paid for including and especially the lower and middle class. Corporations don’t pay for the education of the employees they hire the public sector does. Corporation don’t pay for the military, fire and police protection they enjoy which allows their business to prosper. Nor do they pay for the roads, airports and seaports.
          Corporations used to pay a fairer share of the Federal taxes but now pay very little. Both corporations and the rich pay lower taxes today then at any other time in out history. The single most thing both of these have in common is greed. The greedy are never satisfied.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Nappy… spoken like a good little socialist. Like you paid for the roads and the people that work in companies did not? What a little jealous fool you are to believe such nonsense. The roads were not there first, you dope! Economic gains from the private sector pay the taxes for the things you whine about in the first place you dummy. How stupid can you be? Very stupid, I see. Don’t they have roads and bridges in North Korea? Or in Cuba? Or in any other socialist utopia you leftist freaks want to make us? Of course they do, you moron. So what’s the difference between us and them been all these years? Free market capitalism built this country, you dope! Not your little socialist and collectivist lies about the little people breaking their backs while the rich steal from them.

            And who the hell are you calling “greedy” you little snot nosed punk? Am I greedy because I want to keep more of MY earnings? Or are you greedy because you want more of MY earnings? And your appetite for MY earnings is insatiable. There is no end to it. You are the greedy one, you little prick!

            Have a nice day, Nappy!

            “You cannot make the poor man rich by making the rich man poor.” – Winston Churchill

          • Justin Napolitano

            The roads, bridges and infrastructure in North Korea, Cuba and many other countries are crap and are one of the reasons their economies are so bad. And the interstate highway system, airports and seaports are not just paid for by business, both government and the workers helped. Much of this is paid for by taxes paid by the middle class. Oh, I get it you are saying that since business pays people they indirectly pay for all of those things. Except that is bullshit. Business doesn’t pay people just because they want to, they pay them because they are making money off of their labor, dickhead. Business doesn’t do one god damn thing unless it makes money for them and if it helps the middle class to stay healthy enough and fed enough to continue to support their business then they will continue to pay them otherwise they can die.
            Go fuc yourself you stupid fucer. I am tired of reading your constant shit.
            And before you shoot your god damn mouth off again I am part of the upper ten percent that thinks we should give back to the country and the middle class instead of milking the blood out of them. Here is my quote, you can not make the poor middle class by draining their blood but you can sure make the middle class poor by the same method.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Nappy… if only North Korea and Cuba had better roads and bridges, they’d be economic powerhouses, wouldn’t they? Yeah, right… sure, sure. hahahahahaha… what an absolute moron!!! There is NO WAY you can be in the upper 10% and still think like you do, unless you are a snot-nosed student whose daddy has paid for everything you’ve gotten. Certainly, you have never worked an honest day in your life. What kind of idiot thinks a businessman is just out to exploit employees and discard them like used paperclips? Only an idiot that buys off on the lies of Marx and his bourgeois vs. proletariat bullsheet can possibly think like you. You are a fool!

            Have a nice day!

            “You can only confiscate the wealth that exists at a given moment. You cannot confiscate future wealth — and that future wealth is less likely to be produced when people see that it is going to be confiscated.” – Thomas Sowell

          • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

            You know your name calling does not make you learned, it just shows your ignorance.

        • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

          bozo, first, your name calling is way off base. I am not a leftist. I am apolitical as I see politcal parties dividing our nation making it easy if a fascist wants to take over. 59 billion spent on traditional welfare. 92 billion spent ofn corporate welfare. 40% of the corporate welfare went for farm subsidies. When President Franklin Roosevelt enacted farm subsidies in 1936, it was to prevent family farms from going under. Now, it is being used by corporate farms to run family farms out of business. 60 minutes did a show on this about three years ago. One of their examples was a billionaire in Texas who was buying thousands of acres to put into the land bank where he gets paid for planting nothing. Research the land bank act. The other example was a horse farm in Kentucky that was raising horses for the horse racing industry.

          When I am flying in an airplane, I would rather have the seasoned pilot with an excellent safety record than the religious fanatic who wrecks planes.

    • english_teacher

      But have you ever asked yourself WHY the 47% don’t pay federal income taxes? Or doesn’t the fact that they’re too poor, too young, too old, or in the military not fit into your selfish picture?

      • ObozoMustGo

        They are probably too poor because they were ripped off by you who did not educated them properly. HA! Just kidding, teacher. Don’t get your panties in a knot. Truth is that if you have income, you should pay income taxes. Plain and simple. Everyone should pay the same rate, no exceptions. That’s the only fair way there is. Read my other responses in this comment section.

        [click image to enlarge]

        Have a nice day!

        “The problem is not that people are taxed too little, the problem is that government spends too much.” – Ronald Reagan

        • Justin Napolitano

          More bullshit obozo. So a family barely earning enough to put food on the table should pay the same rate as a millionaire? That doesn’t make sense at any level.

          • dtgraham

            No it doesn’t Justin. In the Republican primaries, they talked about literally zero taxation for various kinds of investment income. Even Romney was surprised and delighted at one of Gingrich’s proposals in one of the debates. If nothing else, how is the dignity of work rewarded when you’re working your butt off paying regular rates while the next guy is living practically tax free just because it’s investment income. Then that same guy complains about the cost of entitlements and how we just can’t afford them. Yet, he’s paying close to no taxes and his answer is to increase federal taxes on the lower “47%”.

            These people just don’t believe in the 20th century and I wish Obama would have realized that on day one of his Presidency. How in the name of God that this sells to the white working class and poor seniors who vote Republican is beyond my comprehension. Thomas Frank will be on Chris Hayes tomorrow morning and can explain some of it. Gotta record that. I’m still looking to watch his film, “What’s the matter with Kansas”.

          • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

            Justin, maybe the family barely earning enough to put food on the table would be ahead is his taxes were only 15%.

      • Sand_Cat

        What about those who – like Mitt Romney and possibly Charlie Sykes, and even our friend Obozomustgo – are too rich?

    • Sand_Cat

      The only idiot here is you, and you aren’t even useful.

    • bobbreinig

      i sure would like to read what you say ,, you might be intelligent ,, but i doubt it ,, cause of your name you atomaticaly dissappear,, the name itself shows you biasso no need reading anything ,,cause it will be so far off mark,, and pregiduced againt commansense

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Myers/100001512942781 Jim Myers

      OKAY!!! I can go along with the flat tax, but with a few “small” tweaks.

      First, have a $10,000 deduction per adult, and an $8,000 deduction per child. This will apply for ALL gross income, whether it is earned by work or by investment income.

      The total personal gross income will not be given any special interest deductions at all. No mortgage deduction, no business expenses, etc.

      As for business, all income will be taxed at the same rate as individuals.

      Only the “hard costs” of doing business, such as materials, labor, loan interest, etc., plus a credit for actual job creation will be deductible from gross income.

      A penalty for off shoring labor, computed at double the credit for actual new job creation, will be imposed. This penalty will continue every year after that until the offshore jobs are replaced by American jobs.

      The tax revenue should be adjusted upward to be slightly more than “revenue neutral. ” As an example, increase the gross tax receipts, (based on calculations of anticipated tax revenue under our present tax structure), by one percent during the first and second year, two percent the third and forth year, and three percent thereafter. These small gains in revenue should at least slow down the increase in the National Debt until it stabilizes.

      Any legislation that increases expenditures MUST be offset by spending cuts that are specifically defined before the new expenditures can be enacted.

      Does this give the “flat tax” a different flavor than that proposed by the so called “Conservatives?”

      If so, would the majority of Americans be more inclined to accept this as an alternative to the “progressive” nature of our current income tax structure?

      I think they would, and in the process, it would actually give business a major incentive to create jobs for Americans, and also create a reason to stop outsourcing jobs that should be kept in America.

      Of course, I expect the Tea Party members to blast this as a Progressive attack on everything American. But as far as I am concerned, I couldn’t care less what the Tea Party members think of me.

      TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT!!!

      • ObozoMustGo

        Jim… interesting to see that you are open to the concept of a flat and fair tax. Unfortunately, you want one and then proceed to offer exceptions that do away with it substantially. But I would say that we have some common ground from which we can work a compromise. Unfortunately, no one will listen to us. But here goes:

        I’d agree that we could have dependent exemptions which would nullify tax payments for the very lowest of us, but we’d have to work that out to insure that 90% of Americans pay some tax.

        I’d also say that making the corporate rate the same as personal would be step in the right direction, though for competitiveness I’d rather see corporate rates around 10% flat tax on net income reported on the annual report and filed with the SEC. I’m hesitant to get into defining what is and what is not “hard costs” as you define them because that ignores the facts that different industries have different situations and economic models with different risks.

        Agreed again on legislation that requires new spending be offset by real cuts. However, we already have that, and truthfully, politicians find ways to get around everything. I think it would require a Constitutional amendment for a balanced budget and new spending that is offset by real cuts. Nowadays, they write a law that says Program X funding will increase 10% next year. Then next year, someone proposes the increase should only be 5%. Then everyone screams that we are cutting spending. It’s a lie. I don’t trust most politicians because of this kind of crap.

        Would Americans be into this? I would think so, but most of the politicians surely would not. Many old school Republicans would not, and no DemonRATS would. Politicians love to manipulate people and their number 1 means of doing so is through the tax code. Simplifying the tax code would strip them of this power to guide society along according to their mastermind designs. So what would happen, as has happened already to anyone that has proposed this, is that they will be villified in the media and called an extremist, or racisis, or xenophobe, or islamophobe, or accused of war on (fill in the blanks). And you know it. Unfortunately, this is true.

        This is why good ideas are very difficult to get through, but that is changing in the Republican party. Like the Tea Party or not, they are changing out the old guard. The DemonRATS need the same kind of grass roots change to get rid of the radical lefitsts and socialists that currently control your party. This new DemonRAT party is NOT the party of your grandfather and you guys need to take it back. The path they are on is unsustainable and incompatible with the principles in our Constitution.

        Thanks for the discussion.

        Have a great weekend!

        “Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
        the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,
        its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery..”
        – Winston Churchill

        • Justin Napolitano

          I have studied the “fair tax” at length and there is no way any sane American would be for such a system. First the tax is 30% not 23% as often stated. The reason they say it is 23% is that they add the tax into the total cost and then state that the tax is only 23% of the new total. Here is an example.; a 30% tax on a one dollar item gives a total of $1.30. It is then stated that the $.30 tax is only 23% of the new total of $1.30. To me and anyone with any sense the tax is 30%. Secondly, they know the tax is unfair so they advocate a system where every American tax payer will receive a check from the government each and every month to make up for the fact that the tax is unfair. A flat tax is always unfair because it takes money from those that have a hard time making ends meet while giving even more to those that don’t need it. Lastly, since the “fair Tax” is a sales tax all of the money people have saved that they already paid taxes on would be re-taxed again when the spend it at 30%. Try to sell that to retired folks.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Nappy… It is now perfectly clear to all who read that you have already hit the bottle hard early on a Friday. Either the bottle or the bong that is. What kind of sober person thinks like you? No one, except a complete idiot. How do you take 30 cents from a dollar in tax and then say you have $1.30? What kind if idiot are you? Did you get out of 4th grade?

            Have a nice day!

            “Nappy, you’re a moron.” – ObozoMustGo

          • Justin Napolitano

            I know math is not your strong suit so let me explain it again. A 30% tax on a one dollar item would give a total cost for that item of $1.30 with the tax included. Now if you divide the 30 cent tax by the new total of $1.30 you get a tax rate of 23%. In words even someone as stupid as you can understand they are saying the tax of 30 cents is only 23% of $1.30. To anyone with half a brain, excluding you of course, the tax is still 30% not the 23% they say it is.
            Let me give you one more example that might sink into your brain. Suppose a 100% tax on a one dollar item. The total cost with the tax is now $2.00. But the fair tax folks say the tax is only 50% because it is only 50% of the new total. Do you get that?
            Obozo you are a fucing asshole so you win.

          • ObozoMustGo

            Nappy…. you are confusing income taxes and sales taxes. Don’t be such an idiot. The fair tax concept applies to income taxes, not sales taxes, dummy. And no one I have ever heard of calculates and claims sales taxes in the manner you have. NO ONE! What kind of freak thinks like you?

            Have a nice day!

            “You can only confiscate the wealth that exists at a given moment. You cannot confiscate future wealth — and that future wealth is less likely to be produced when people see that it is going to be confiscated.” – Thomas Sowell

          • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

            bozo, are you a member of the KKK or someother white supremist group?

    • Justin Napolitano

      You are FOS, obozo and only tell a part of the story. If 47% do not pay income taxes it is because their income is below the level needed to pay taxes and part of that is because of the Bush tax cuts. That is the problem with Republican assholes, they cause a problem then blame others for the results. You obozo should shut the Fuc up.
      Have a nice day

    • AlphaPlus

      Hey there again, it’s Blowzo the Blow Bag, everyone’s least favorite plutocratic lackey blogger! You would know about irrelevant text, being the biggest promulgator of such on this forum. Looks like I’m not the only one drawing the comparison of your propaganda and lies to those of the fascist Nazi party. Damn, I can’t decide if you are more ignorant or arrogant! You apparently read every article on the National Memo because you are a right wing operative whose job is to disparage and discredit the left and post the latest of Minister Limbaugh’s propaganda talking points, so you know full well that other articles have gone into detail with truth and facts about the composition of the 47% who do not pay income taxes. There is no need for Joe Conason to retrace the ground these articles already covered. I realize your reading comprehension and retention aren’t too good, so I will remind you. It’s ok, I’m here to help!

      See previous articles “Looking For That ’47 Percent,’ Mitt? Check Red States And Elderly Republicans”, which reveals the red states to be the net takers while the blue states are the net providers of Federal funds, and “In Mitt Romney’s World”:

      “Another 60 percent [of the 47%], according to the Tax Policy Foundation, are working people who simply don’t earn enough to pay federal income taxes. But they do remit Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes amounting to 15.3% of their salaries—more than the 13.9% paid by Romney himself, on the one tax return he’s condescended to release.

      Ezra Klein summarizes on his Washington Post blog : “So 83 percent of those not paying federal income taxes are either working and paying payroll taxes or they’re elderly and Romney is promising to protect their benefits because they’ve earned them [in contrast with the Ryan budget, which plunders those benefits to finance tax cuts for the wealthy]. The remainder, by and large, aren’t paying federal income or payroll taxes because they’re unemployed.”

      This mess we are in did not all just happen since Obama came into office, and it started even way before Bush, although he was just continuing his party’s work of “privatize and plunder”. Over the decades since WWII (when everyone sacrificed and the wealthiest did pay their fair share and upper income tax rates were much higher – high tax rates and war bonds are how the war effort were funded; compare that to the irresponsible policies of Bush who simultaneously reduced taxes and started 2 expensive wars) Republicans have worked greedily to undo New Deal reforms and redistribute wealth from the middle class to the upper class; over that period average wages have stayed flat or declined, while corporate profits and executive compensation have soared. Income inequality has grown to the levels preceding the Great Depression. That is a big part of why so many are earning incomes too low to pay income taxes and don’t have access to health care, because worker wages and benefits have been hijacked and suppressed to make your bosses richer. The wealthiest like Romney have raided worker’s pensions, reduced employee benefits, laid off workers, and closed plants to take more for themselves (this is how they measure success, and success should never be “punished” by taxation), then find loop holes and gimmicks (not illegal, but still immoral) to pay lower tax rates than the workers whose jobs they siphoned from: result is net loss in tax revenue.

      I know math, economics, political science, and especially ethics are hard for you to comprehend because you are lacking in mental capacity, so you just scapegoat the poor and minorities for being lazy and stupid and immigrants for taking everyone’s jobs (similar to how the Nazis used Jews as scapegoats). You should try not to remain so ignorant. This is not about envy of the wealthy; you would not be jealous of a thief who has stolen from you – you would get angry at the injustice, and demand retribution to return what has been taken. That is the redistribution your masters oppose, and so any steps taken to reverse the damage from income inequality are denounced as socialist by those like you who purposefully misconstrue facts, and readily accepted by those who are gullible and ignorant enough to believe your lies. Wanting to move from the far laissez-faire capitalist end of the economic spectrum (economic anarchy) towards a more fair and regulated capitalist economy (an economy regulated by moral and ethical laws, but still owned and operated by the private sector – not a government takeover!) does not mean someone wants to revert to socialism or even further, all the way to communism; both extremes are unsustainable – we need moderation and balance in the system, not anarchy and a complete lack of moral code. You promote an oligarchy of unelected, unaccountable corporate and financial kingpins (still in effect a government, but one of usurpers) who don’t want people to be able to rely on their democratically elected government to ensure fairness or provide a helping hand because they want people to remain enslaved in a state of debt servitude. What you forget is that the true government is by the people, and we the people have had enough of your fascist propaganda and immoral policies. You lack any credibility or claim to the truth. As a professional liar, the truth is your greatest enemy. You would call Jesus a socialist.

      Have a nice day!

      “For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required.” — Luke 12:48

      (It is unreasonable to think Romney or any millionaire paying a 30-40% tax rate would make him poor. Churchill’s wealthy allies in America paid significantly more, and this was not considered socialist policy by anybody at the time. Churchill was glad that America came to his country’s aid to stop the fascists, and paying taxes made that possible! Way to take a quote out of context!)

      • Dave_dido

        Wow, AlphaPlus, you nailed it! A very succinct summary of the way many of us feel. Even though most of the hard-headed conservative/tea-baggers won’t change their viewpoint because of it, your message needs to be repeated often if only to remind progressives what it is we are fighting for.

      • http://www.facebook.com/maggie.croft.92 Maggie Croft

        Fact: During World War II, the wealthiest paid 71%. I don’t think people were as greedy then. There is only X amount of money in the country. If the wealthy have more than their share, then someone in the middle or the bottom pays the difference.

      • ObozoMustGo

        AP… I’ve been laughing all morning since reading this utopian fantasy diatribe of yours. What a moron you are. 6 paragraphs of bourgeois vs. proletariate bullsheet. hehehehehehe. What an idiot.

        The king of contradiction strikes again. What else can I expect from such a committed leftist freak like you? On the one hand, you claim to support wealth redistribution, and on the other you say wealth redistibution is not socialist. What planet do you live on? By definition, socialists seek equality of results through redistribution of wealth and control over economic behavior. You also maintain some sort of fantasy that the masterminds in government can somehow be the arbiter of all that is fair and just. HA! They are the biggest crooks going. And you are stupid enough to believe that giving them the power to take your (and mine) earnings for their so-called charitable ends of redistributing those earnings to those whom they themselves deem worthy is somehow a good idea. How stupid can you be? Aparently, very stupid. And gullible.

        You claim that taxes are a good thing because they finance the military, but then seem to gloss over the fact that the military IS, in fact, the primary purpose of the federal government. In these discussions, you claim the right of taxation for the military, but then lump into the topic socialist programs and ideals as though they are one in the same . They are NOT the same. The debate is not over whether or not we have taxes, you moron. The debate is over what the proper role of the Federal Government is in America according to the Constitution. You know, that pesky little document that you leftist freaks love to hate.

        Of course, I’ve never read a leftist freak rambling without blaming Bush. When are you morons going to realize that the idiot in chief Obozo has been there 4 years? This economy is his. And he’s made everything worse. Bush was bad. Obozo is bad on steroids and he is purposefully working to downsize America in order to bankrupt us and replace our free market economics with his socialist ideals. He is a piece of sheet and should be impeached, tried, and convicted for treason.

        I love it when you leftist freaks use Jesus Christ as some sort of justification for socialist ideals. He was the furthest thing from a socialist. You morons on the left love the concept of collective salvation. Jesus spoke of individual salvation, not collective salvation. If you are a believer in Christianity, you should know that your personal salvation is NOT tied to the actions of other people, only your own. Nice attempt to hijack Jesus Christ for your diabolical ends, but I’m not buying it.

        You aparently have no idea what a fascist is, even though you actually support fascist ideals yourself. How can someone that wants maximum freedom and individual liberty (me) be a fascist, you moron? Do you have a single clue what the words coming from your keyboard even mean? Do you even know what fascism is? The answer is obviously NO, you don’t. Let me help you, boy…

        Merriam Websters: FASCISM – often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

        Wiki – Fascism advocates a state-controlled and regulated mixed economy; the principal economic goal of fascism is to achieve national autarky to secure national independence, through protectionist and interventionist economic policies. It promotes regulated private enterprise and private property contingent whenever beneficial to the nation and state enterprise and state property whenever necessary to protect its interests. At the same time, fascists are hostile to financial capital, plutocracy, and “the power of money.”

        By both of those definitions, you freaks on the left fit the bill. A desire for greater government control and regulation over the economy for the collective good. By definition, YOU are the fascist in this discussion. What an arrogant jerk you are. Probably recently indoctrinated at the leftist seminary (aka college), and having not a single clue about how the world works, or the nature of mankind. Classic snot-nosed brat that’s likely had everthing given to you and have not worked an honest day in your entire miserable existence. Y0ur an easy mark.

        Go climb back in that hole you crawled out of.

        Have a nice day!

        “You can only confiscate the wealth that exists at a given moment. You cannot confiscate future wealth — and that future wealth is less likely to be produced when people see that it is going to be confiscated.” – Thomas Sowell

    • RUKIDENME

      Hey ObozoMustGo, your a clown. Now put your white hood back on and let the grownups post.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4JK5UTBYBW34I6QZZXYEBMSTT4 TEN-OF-WANDS

    Let them EAT CAKE.

  • jebediah123

    Charlie Sykes—-What a joke. One of Milwaukee’s chief hate mongers. I haven’t listened to him of late (his ranting about the poor or unfortunate almost made me want to vomit). Now we find that at one point he couldn’t pay his child support and his EX was on welfare?? You mean to tell me that the great Charlie Sykes was a dirty, no good scum bag child support evader who somehow turned into a super right wing “” take responsibility for your own life””Republican?? A TYPICAL REPUBLICAN HYPOCRITE!!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/P3NXX7AD64NWRRT65INAEULVEU Don

    I and the rest of this country have supported the government since the beginning of Social Security as well as medicare. We pay taxes yearly if they are owed and we receive money back if we have paid toooo much.

  • daniel bostdorf

    The point about Conason’s article is about Charles J. Sykes and Romney/Ryan apparently borrowing inspiration from Sykes… Not Obama or anything else.

    Conason:

    “With so many Republicans frantically distancing themselves from Mitt Romney over those notorious remarks about the “47 percent” of Americans he views as tax-exempt moochers, there is at least one right-wing pundit proudly claiming responsibility for what Romney said. Complaints from the right about “lucky duckies” too poor to pay taxes are nothing new, of course.   Yet although he may have to share the credit with his pal Paul Ryan, strong circumstantial evidence supports the boasting of Charles J. Sykes.And if Sykes is right, then the excuses offered by Romney and Ryan about “inelegant” and “inarticulate” phrasing over the past few days are laughable.”

    Once again, “mustgoobozomustgo” is here (along with others) to distract us.
What is your real name? Why do you hide? You hide because you are an operative tasked to post the drivel you do in hope we turn off.

    Conason furthers states about Sykes that is dead on:

    “Sykes is a standard-issue right-wing radio huckster, dispensing the wisdom of the Wall Street Journal editorial page, the Heritage Foundation, and Fox News. He is also — like so many of his fellow ideological extremists — an imperfect exemplar of the values he preaches…”

    Distraction and lies by “mustgoobozomustgo” and others who post with the same intent is just like the distraction and lies by Rove, Limbaugh, Beck, foxnews and Teapartiers.

    It’s pure propaganda in the guise of wanting constructive dialogue.

    Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels said it best:
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

    Keep telling the lies and distortions “mustgoobozomustgo,” Rove, foxnews et al…

    We see straight through the fascist underpinning of posts.

  • coxel

    Exxon, G.E and a lot more are on the government dime. Don’t for get the untethered oil speculators that are keeping the price of crude up all year when normally in the summer it would drop. Why haven’t these situations been looked at in are congress? I would love to know who is in the pockets of these groups

  • 1concernedsenior

    Big Mushroom, I think your analogy of the rich white folk country clubbers was somewhat crude –>>BUT RIGHT ON !!!

    • old_blu

      You’re a liar and a fat mouth.

  • 1concernedsenior

    Don’t worry CC, we’re gonna put the meat to Mutt Romney!! I had to do early retirement because my place of employment sold out to someone else. I’ve been working since I was 15, and I’m no moocher –>>living on a fixed income!!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

    Since they’re plugging books by bitter, ultra-conservative psychopaths, let me put out a must-read to show the nature of Romney/Ryan. Read THE TRAGEDY OF ROBERT CHARLES.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/X2KKGDYW2F5T5XUT6233KBNWSI robert

    Trickle down means pissing on our heads and telling us it’s raining!

  • daniel bostdorf

    The point about Conason’s article is about Charles J. Sykes and Romney/Ryan apparently borrowing inspiration from Sykes… Not Obama or anything else.

    Conason:

    “With so many Republicans frantically distancing themselves from Mitt Romney over those notorious remarks about the “47 percent” of Americans he views as tax-exempt moochers, there is at least one right-wing pundit proudly claiming responsibility for what Romney said. Complaints from the right about “lucky duckies” too poor to pay taxes are nothing new, of course. Yet although he may have to share the credit with his pal Paul Ryan, strong circumstantial evidence supports the boasting of Charles J. Sykes.And if Sykes is right, then the excuses offered by Romney and Ryan about “inelegant” and “inarticulate” phrasing over the past few days are laughable.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Jones/827014412 Daniel Jones

    It gets better. They define the 47% as the portion of the populace that doesn’t have to pay additional income tax. This is because they already PAID for any income tax out of their paychecks!

    That’s not mooching, that’s paying it forward, it’s actually avoiding mooching!
    Like so many so-called sins the Repulsivecans accuse others of, it’s what they are doing but want to make the other guy pay the price for!

    Cab Calloway would call these bozos real hootchie-koochers.

  • creatingscholars

    Mitt Romney isn’t presidential material he is running for all the wrong reasons. If a president is able to care about all people it is that component that makes him worth consideration. Mitt only made it this far because of the color of his skin not because of his smarts not because he cares for all people. To listen to the republicans and you are not aware of how the system work you would believe him and his crew. Think about it we the people did not keep the republican out of the white house when we could have, we where so happy that president Obama won the race and we relaxed and they pouched on that opportunity president Obama is a good president and that is my story. Teresa Moore a true democratic

  • cwalter911

    Remember the definition of Liberal is one with an open mind.

    Enjoyed your comment johinPCFL. With respect to dividends and taxation policy. Wouldn’t a progressive tax on dividends make more sense? Base the tax on the individual or trust. This way a small investor who has an account outside of an IRA or 401K would 15%, as dividend income increases the rate would progress to 25%, etc. The key point would be once dividend income exceeds $250,000 then the rate would progress to 50% and $1,000,000 plus to 75%.

    There is an argument from the right not to limit income or earnings. What this does is allow individuals to amass through the holding company act, virtual monopolies. Now the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was suppose to be a remedy. If one has followed mergers and accquisitions and the tendency of many industries to move to monopoly status the Anti-Trust Act, a favorite of Teddy Roosevelt, needs considerable revision and strengthening.

    The Republican approach would destroy capitalism as Adam Smith envisioned it and prove Marx correct. Marx argued that capitalism degenerates from a competitive state to monopoly. This is an evil that Republicans like Teddy Roosevelt understood very well. Left unchecked monopoly will destroy democracy and we will be faced with corporate dictatorship.

    If one thinks that corporate dictotorship does not exist, hidden like cells of cancer in our society, ask anyone who has lived in a single company town.

    This is something to ponder.

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