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Saturday, October 1, 2016

According to a new CNN/ORC International poll, a majority of Americans still disapproves of President Barack Obama’s landmark health reform law — but many of the law’s opponents believe that it doesn’t go far enough.

The poll finds that 43 percent of the public supports the Affordable Care Act, while 54 percent opposes it. 35 percent say that the law is too liberal, while 16 percent say that it is not liberal enough.

There is a sharp partisan divide in the results; just 16 percent of Republicans support the law, compared to almost three-quarters of Democrats.

“Not surprisingly, the Obama coalition is most supportive of Obamacare,” CNN polling director Keating Holland said. “A majority of younger Americans favor the new health care law; support among other age groups falls as low as 31 percent among senior citizens. Only a third of whites support the law, compared to 6 in 10 non-whites. Obamacare also wins majority support in urban areas and in the Northeast, the bluest region of the country.”

The new numbers are relatively unchanged from the direct aftermath of the law’s signing, when a CNN/ORC poll showed 40 percent in favor of the law, and 56 percent opposed. As The Huffington Post’s poll tracker shows, public sentiment on the law has remained remarkably consistent over the past three years:

That could signal trouble for Republicans. Although similar levels of opposition to the law failed to turn voters against the Democrats in 2012, GOP leaders are preparing to make repealing Obamacare the central focus of a third consecutive campaign cycle in 2014. To that end, House Republicans  have voted to repeal the law 37 times, which has certainly helped convince a stunning 70 percent of voters that the party is out of touch with the public. If the GOP can’t move disapproval of the law even higher before next November, then they will have to hope that the electorate that turns out mirrors the 2010 midterms — a strategy that backfired disastrously in 2012.

Photo credit: AP/J. Scott Applewhite

  • highpckts

    Me either!!

  • stcroixcarp

    I want the same health care coverage Michelle Bachman gets and for the same price. I also want the same retirement perks. Every American deserves the same benefits and perks as Congress. We pay the salaries of these nincompoops.

    • Archie’s Boy

      That actually would be great — but it ain’t gonna happen. I’d like to have a matching salary, too!

      • RobertCHastings

        One thing at a time, Archie. The insurance thing is one small step for a man, one giant leap for American taxpayers.

      • BDC_57

        And work as many days that they do.

    • Lynda Groom

      Here is some good news for you. Congress members and staffers will be required to buy insurance through the exchanges starting Jan 1st. There are actually no bills moving forward in Congress that would exempt members and their staffs and families from buying into ‘Obamacare.’
      Under ACA their insurance coverage will have to switch from the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, the group that cover approx. 8 million federal employees and retires. After Jan 1st they will have to switch to the exchanges created by the law.
      Even if Congress found a way to nullify the provision requiring members and their staff to get insurance on the exchanges, it still wouldn’t amount to and exemption from the law. The lawmakers and staffer would be subject to the mandate to have health insurance or pay a fine, just like everyone else.

    • RobertCHastings

      I sure as hell don’t want what she is getting, look at what she has turned into and that with the best health care on the planet. Man, she must be taking some serious shit, and we are paying for it. I would certainly like a health program that pays for my drugs, but I believe they would have to be a little bit better screened than hers. She got into some bad stuff, man.

    • lana ward

      All the dems in congress voted for Ocare. Now they all want to be exempt from it. NOT ONE Republican voted for Ocare so they should be exempt from it

      • Lynda Groom

        Lana Ward, please pay attention. There are no bills moving in Congress to exempt members of Congress, their staff and families. That nonsense has been debunked over and over since 2009, but the twaddle continues to be repeated by folks like you. It is time for reality to take center stage and the nonsense to be put aside.

        • lana ward

          Lynda Groom, please pay attention. The dems in Congress are trying to figure out right now on how to get out of that God awful Ocare that they just couldn’t wait to get passed. They want their staffers to be exempt from it too. You need a different news source

          • Lynda Groom

            Lana you’ve got to start paying attention to facts. The facts are very simple. All of this nonsense about Dems or GOPers trying for exemptions is hogwash. Facts do matter. My source is the Congressional Record…what’s yours?
            Politico report on April 24 that secret talks were taking place. In reality there haven’t been any discussions to exempt Congress from ‘provisions that apply to any employees of any other or private employer offering health care.’ Rep Waxman informed Politico that lawmakers and their staffs will indeed get insurance through the exchanges. ‘The federal government will offer them health insurance coverage that they obtained through the exchanges because we want to get the same coverage everybody else has available to them.’
            From the Office of Personnel Management ‘Members of Congress will not receive anything that is not available to the public. The law doesn’t allow them to get insurance from the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, they are going to get insurance on the market place, just like uninsured individuals and small businesses.’
            Don’t forget that is was a republican idea that Congress be subject to the same as he public. Sen Grassley of Iowa added to the Senate bill and pushed the idea that federal government health plans be part of the exchanges. Here’s a quote from Sen Tom Coburn ‘the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are–(1) created under this ACT(or an amendment made by this Act); or(II) offered through an Exchange established under this act.’
            Are you starting to get the picture?

          • lana ward

            Lynda , you have got to start paying attention to the facts. I didn’t say Congress was going to be exempt from Ocare, I said they were trying to figure a way to get out of it. And they are. It’s good enough for us, but not good enough for them. Why would they want to be exempt from the bill they were so eager to pass?? They have admitted now, that it is going to be a huge train wreck. It is going to cost people thousands of dollars–right around the time of the 1214 elections. And just remember, NOT ONE Republican voted for the damn thing and tried their best to get rid of it. Good luck with the 1214 elections

          • Lisztman

            lana, you keep talking about your “facts”. Would you please quote your source? ANY source? Heck, I’ll take the Washington Times or Fox News. But you’re not allowed to merely project a train wreck and thousands of dollars in cost unless you have at least a Masters Degree in Economics or Mathematics/Actuary.

          • lana ward

            Check out the site , Pat Dollard. There are many articles on Obama and the Dems. Just Google, Pat Dollard

          • Lisztman

            I did. For the amusement of all your friends around here, I offer the following excerpt from patdollard(dot)com:

            A recent (2009?) book proposes that, per the screaming headline (estimated 24pt, all caps), “Exposed: Soviet Union took control of US under FDR.” Mr. Dollard quoted the author: “According to West, other authors and historians have yet to incorporate ‘these incredible revelations about traitors in the White House, in the Congress, at the State Department, in OSS, which was the precursor to the CIA, throughout government.’”

            This gives you an idea of where Pat Dollard is coming from. If THIS is who lana ward spends her time with, it’s no wonder that her brain (if any) is fried to a frizzle.

            Now, lana ward. Do you have any fact sources from ANYTHING? ANYONE? resembling mainstream? It can be far right (e.g., Washington Times). A site from a conspiracy theorist doesn’t quite qualify…

          • lana ward

            Pat Dollard is spot on. Communists always object to truth–don’t they??

          • bikejedi

            I agree Lana see above

          • Lisztman

            I asked you for FACTS, lana ward. DATA. An actual news report, not a RWNJ blogger.

          • lana ward

            Fox News will give you facts on anything you want to know. Just watch, learn, easy as that

          • bikejedi

            I agree with Lana …Dollard is right on …the proof is in the pudding . Just look at the policy decisions of this regime and the record numbers of people Obama has made poor and dependent on Govt and if you have common sense you can deduce the obvious . You just hurt your own argument Lisztman

          • BDC_57

            you need to pay attention we dont lying ass in here so leave.

          • lana ward

            Why did the IRS Chief visit OHitler 157 times. Scheming their targeting plans on conservatives??? He went to the WH ONCE in 4 years when Bush was President. What the hell was going on!!

          • bikejedi

            He went there for the Easter Egg Roll hahahahah and nothing more oh and to implement Obamacare …and Liberals will buy that and back that hahahahahah

          • lana ward

            Dems are pitiful. They cheer on bad behavior and lie and cover for each other. If Republicans had done some of what is going on. the dems would have them in prison already. Nasty little freaks that they are

          • bikejedi

            Could not agree more . I think even Liberals who can think for themselves , and I know there aren’t a lot of them , would admit that if this were a Republican they and their media would’ve demanded and gotten an Impeachment . Look what Nixon did wouldn’t even be considered a criminal act by the Obama criteria . If Obama were ANY other President in American History he would’ve been impeached and tried for treason . No one wants to bring up the word impeachment and go down in history as the ” racist ” who brought down this historic President . Thjis is beyond stupid with what is going on as far as treasonous felonies and the policy he is putting in place

          • lana ward

            Did you hear, it is going to be a crime to post anything thing offending to muslims on the internet?? Talk about free speech!! Yet OHitler can say and do anything he wants that offends Christians. Can you say DICTATOR, Heil OHitler!!! This can’t happen in America can it–yep, with a terrorist at the helm!!

          • bikejedi

            Lana yes , I saw that . this regimes selective use of the 1st Amendment is appallingly Communist in execution . Anyone who doubt Obama’s love of Islam and his hatred of Christians needs to take a hard look at what is going on in this Country . Both in terms of policy and rhetoric .

          • lana ward

            I wonder just what it’s gonna take before Congress boots his dictator ass out!!

          • bikejedi

            lana I tried to look you up on fb I don’t know if you are on there or not …I am and I have the same profile pic ..under Michael Stoll

          • lana ward

            I’ve tried getting on Facebook, somehow I messed up. I’ll have my son help me ( I’m kinda new to computers)

          • bikejedi

            Lana they are in compete and total brainwashed denial . They really need to stop trying to convince the people on the right about this Tax law and try convincing their own side . I mean they had super majorities in both the house and senate and still had to use the Tax dollars of producers to bribe their own members to vote for it because they knew how bad it was . Every single Union that worked for Obama and donated to him has either been given an exemption or is now begging for one . There have been over 1400 exemptions so far ..Have you seen a single Conservative group be granted one ? A single Conservative business ? No of course not , but Liberals who own boutique restaurants in Nancy Pelosi’s district have gotten waivers . 20% of the waivers have been granted gto Liberals in Pelosi’s district .The liberals who own businesses or are in Unions have read it and they don’t like it . These Liberals like Lynda should try to brainwash other Liberals who know better . Their talking points wont convince any conservative with common sense and their argument is with their own leadership and fellow drones

          • lana ward

            Thanks! I sure hope Republicans follow this through. They all need to be held accountable. What brass, what disrespect for the law and Constitution and the American citizen. All little communist cowards!!!

          • Lisztman

            As Ronald Reagan famously said, bikejedi, “There ya’ go, again.”
            A whole lot of allegations. And not a single fact with a citeable source attached to it. Amazing how well you make this stuff up and think that anyone beyond RWNJs will eat it up…

        • idamag

          Just ignore her. She is our resident nut. She comes up with more crap than a chicken with the diarrhea.

          • neeceooooo

            You are right about that, although I wouldn’t mind having an intelligent discussion with lana but you might as well talk to the wall because her mind is closed and nothing is getting in.

          • BDC_57

            And don’t anything

        • bikejedi

          That’s because they were already exempted Liberal Genius …Now that is an Oxymoron ( look it up )

        • Lisztman

          Isn’t it fun watching lana ward and bikejedi in their little circle jerk?

      • bikejedi

        I missed this comment before but you are right on . First off they get a premium healthcare package already and they don’t want to be included in Obamacare . I also like the suggestion that EVERY rat that voted for it should have to be in it . Every Union who supported it or the Dems should have to be part of it and EVERY Public Employee should have to be part of it . Lets see the fun that would ensue then .

    • The reason there is still so much opposition to a program that will not only benefit 30 million uninsured Americans, the handicapped, the poor, self-employed people and many small business owners is because the Obama administration has done a lousy job at explaining its benefits to our society and the business community.
      Tens of thousands of Americans who had been denied medical care because pre-existing conditions now get the healthcare they need to live with a modicum of dignity, without having to beg and depend on alms.
      The draconian insurance coverage caps are no more. People no longer have to sell their houses or go bankrupt when they are afflicted by a serious medical condition that requires expensive prolonged care.
      Women are getting the wellness care they need to be healthy.
      All American children have access to the medical care they need to grow up healthy and become productive citizens.
      Starting in 2014 the self employed and many small business owners will be able to join exchanges that will allow them to get insurance coverage at a lower premium than they pay now. One of my sons started a small business recently and pay over $1,300 a month in premiums. People like him will benefit from joining exchanges that, in theory, will allow them to get the insurance coverage they need at an affordable price as a result of insurance companies dealing with large groups of customers instead of a single beneficiary.

      • Lisztman

        Additionally — as I noted above, very few citizens actually KNOW what’s in the ACA. The only thing they really hear is the gloom-and-doom forecast by the GOP. Shills for Big Insurance.

      • bikejedi

        How can you say they have done a lousy job explaining it ? No regime has ever spent as much tax payer dollars to promote a bill . Obama and his whole administration have campaigned tirelessly on it to the point of forgetting about the bad economy and the debt they are accruing . They even sent out a regime wide memo instructing any regime member that was giving a commencement speech to tout the bill . I mean when does the Liberal indoctrination of these students end . They cant even escape it at graduation . No my friends on the left the reason people hate it is because they have seen enough of it and don’t like it .

        • Lisztman

          bikejedi: “They have seen enough of it.” Sir, I ask you simply: How much of the ACA have you read? I do not ask you how much analysis by Fox News have you listened to. I ask, how do you, yourself, actually know what’s in it?

          Re spending of tax dollars “to promote” it: I’m sure you have a source that gives you a number on that, as well as bolstering your claim. Or did you make that up, too?

          Re the “regime-wide memo”: please provide your source. I strongly believe you made that up, too. Are you shacking up with lana ward? If so, God forbid there are any children…

          • bikejedi

            I Obviously have read more of it then you have . The regime wide emails have been reported by several news sources . I cant do your homework for you . Look your argument doesn’t seem to be so much with the people on the right who have the common sense to see what a disaster this bill is and that it was designed to fail , rather it is with other people on the left who have read it and don’t like what’s in it . Look none of the Unions who helped Obama get elected and supported this bill now want to be a part of it . A lot of them have been granted exemptions and many more have applied . Then there are the Govt Unions who don’t have to worry about it because they were protected . Then there are all the Liberal small boutique restaurant owners who read it and hate it and because they are Liberals represented By …she exempted them from HER OWN BILL . Over 20% or the exemptions from Obama care are in her district . Your argument is with others on the left who have obviously read it and don’t like it . Once again you ask me to supply sources that are readily available just by googling them . Yet you say I haven’t read anything . Look , google Sebelius strong arming Companies for funds to support Obama care ? Why does she have to do that if this bill is just so fabulous ? Do some google searches for God sakes

          • bikejedi

            By the way to further illustrate my point why not ask yourself why Obama and the Dems had to use OUR Tax Dollars to bribe their OWN members to vote for this Bill ? After all they had Super Majorities in both the House and Senate and still had to buy off their own people and bribe them to vote for it ….I think your argument is with them …Ouch right ?

          • Lisztman

            Tax dollars to bribe? ANOTHER unfounded, undocumented accusation. bikejedi, you run off at the mouth. QUOTE YOUR SOURCES.

            The ACA was crafted, with a large amount of give-and-take, as a pragmatic (is that word too big for you?) solution — something that could/would actually fly even with the Democratic Congressional majorities. IMHO, a single-payer solution would have been better still, but that would not have had the broad support. Logrolling in Congress is not the same as bribes. Go back to sophomore/junior year of HS and re-take American History. Your knowledge of this stuff is sorely and amazingly deficient.

          • bikejedi

            Lisztman you are embarrassing yourself . All of this was widely reported . I shouldn’t have to cite any sources . YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT IT . The fact you don’t seem to know would seem to indicate that maybe you should go back to Grade School to learn for some basic reasoning skills . Having said that I have no idea what you want me to cite when all of this has been widely reported . Look up the Cornhusker kickback or the Louisiana Purchase …Or the deal Harry Reid got for Nevada . You should not have to buy off , bribe , or pay your own Reps and Senators to support a bill when you have Majorities on both sides . That is not running off at the mouth it is reporting FACT . Man you really need to get informed Lisztman you are embarrassing the left on the left’s own site

          • Lisztman

            I am not asking to look up sources. If YOU make an unfounded accusation, it is YOUR responsibility to cite the source. Had you finished High School you would have learned that.

          • bikejedi

            Lisztman what the Hell is in that pipe ? I would think that if I were to debate someone that knows more then I do that I would look that stuff up myself so I wouldn’t look ignorant . It isn’t my responsibility to educate and inform you on stuff that has been widely disseminated ( I know… big word …put the pipe down and look it up…oh and touché ) I also would not have to resort to the intolerant bullying tactic of trying to debase an opponent who knows more then I .

          • Lisztman

            Sorry, bikejedi. Standard operating procedure for ANY material presented. You DID do papers in your college classes, right? Oh. No college? You DID do papers in High School, right? You provide this thing at the end called a Bibliography. It lists all your sources. If you make allegations in the body from some source, you attach a footnote that explains where the info came from. It is NOT the responsibility of the reader to figure out where the info came from.

            In the absence of same, we assume you guilty of shoddy research and making up data. In the absence of same, END OF DISCUSSION. You’re nothing but a worthless troll.

          • bikejedi

            Let’s try this again . I am not doing a paper for you or for a class . I am commenting on a thread and it is assumed that if you are also commenting that you should know a little bit about the subject lest you open yourself up for ridicule and embarrassment as you have . I did not do that , you did that , so don’t be mad at me . I did attend college and have more college credit hrs then most people with advanced degrees . I have a very divergent background and have worked for IBM , in Nuclear Energy, and I am also ex law enforcement in the County of Cook . Maybe we got off on the wrong foot because we both seem to like a little sarcasm . Have a nice weekend

          • Lisztman

            You CAN “do my homework” for me. Sorry you apparently didn’t go to college, and may have not made it through High School. Standard procedure in any paper is to provide footnotes and bibliography. If you’re making up stuff, or expressing an opinion — that’s something else. But in this case — you’re making unfounded allegations.

            Provide your sources, or you’re merely a troll. And go get some education.

          • bikejedi

            Lispman ..I’m quite sure my education and life experience far outstrips yours . Just in case you haven’t noticed I am not a newspaper or doing a term paper for you . Get informed on current events and stop embarrassing yourself K . I’m betting that because you compared posting on a thread to writing a paper that you must be involved in education , probably a teacher . This explains why our kids are getting such a bad education . Do you teach in Public Schools ? Lispman try sticking to the issues and get informed , you are embarrassing everyone that is intelligent on the left . You don’t seem to know current events or common terms used in Politics . Before you rant check yourself K …I just love using that K …

          • Lisztman

            Excuse me. Your education only outstrips mine if you have advanced college degrees. Your life experience outstrips mine if you’ve been working for 40 years.

            I know you’re not a newspaper. Or writing a term paper. It STILL behooves you to document your “facts” — otherwise you’re making them up.

            And, no, I’m not a teacher. 40 years working in electronics, design, with multiple patents. Current events? I read my local paper, top 2 sections (local & national/world) every day. I am only embarrassed when I have to try to explain to someone who purports to be an adult that it is the responsibility of someone who makes an allegation to document that allegation. Otherwise — you made it up.

      • Betta

        “…a program that will not only benefit 30 million uninsured Americans”

        This simply is not true, Dominick. Many people have already been hurt by obamacare. Increased payroll taxes to pay for it, full-time hours being cut to part time so employers can avoid having to offer the super expensive health care to their employees. This is happening all over the place. Have you not read or researched this at all?

        I read a story of one lady who has been cut from 40 hours to 27 hours. She sold her home and moved into a trailer park. She will now need to apply for food stamps to feed her family when she didn’t need food stamps before. She also will not be able to afford obamacare and Lord forbid if she has a pre-existing condition. Are these the “benefits” you are referring to? If so, then why is this lady worse off?

        Her job is no longer full time, but part time. She cannot possibly live off of this. How does she benefit when now she must latch on to the government teat to survive?

        You do realize this has been obama’s intent all along. They coincide with his marxist beliefs.

        Time to stop drinking obama’s Fools-Aid don’t you think? Many, many people are waking up to what is happening to them. What is taking you so long?

    • Fern Woodfork

      You Got That Right My Friend!! 🙂 But This Congress WE Have Now Don’t Deserve NOTHING Cause They Have Done NOTHING!!! But Keep Up A Lot Of Bullshit!!! 🙁

      • bikejedi

        Fern you do realize it wasn’t THIS congress that passed ObamaTAX right ? The DEMs had Super majorities in both the House and Senate and this Bill was so bad they had to use Mine and other Producers Tax Dollars to Bribe and pay off their own Party members to shove it down our throats . For you to hold this congress responsible for that is cray cray but not surprising coming from you . Everyone who voted for this epic failure of a Tax law should be the ones to have to abide by it . Instead it is they and their supporters that are getting all the exemptions from it or have already been exempted . Wrap your head around that .

        • Fern Woodfork

          Wrap Your Head Around FUCK YOU BIKERBITCH!!

          • bikejedi

            So Fern , If I am to understand your response you don’t /can’t dispute what I posted as the truth , or that it is factual . It seems that you are mad that I am right and you realize that you can’t argue against that . So instead of saying …gee I never thought of it that way Bike Jedi you might be on to something . Or , I cant explain why my Dems had to bribe their own party members to vote for it ..I can’t explain why all those Dem Unions now want out of it ..I cant explain why my fellow libs in Nancy Pelosi’s district don’t want it either and why they all have gotten exemptions …Instead of that we get fuck you Biker …Well at least you know I’m right .. You just don’t like that I’m right….. And also notice Fern I’m being civil . Have a nice weekend Fern .

        • Lisztman

          Supermajorities? Please define. They were simple majorities, sir. Your rants are exceeded only by your lack of knowledge and your refusal to cite sources.
          What “epic failure”? In what ways does it fail? You haven’t actually said anything of any substance — you’ve only thrown a tantrum worthy of any four-year-old.

          • bikejedi

            Lisztman , I haven’t tried to personally insult you or call you dumb . It seems you are only capable of using that Alinsky tactic . When you can’t debate on merit just try to debase your opponent through ridicule …that was his tactic , wasn’t it ? Having said that, I will respond to you Intolerant Liberal style like you did to I ….Man you are really uneducated and don’t even understand common terms used on Capital Hill. Ok , let me educate you Lisztman..Simple Majority means you have more then the other side . Super Majority means you have enough to prevent a Filibuster from the opposition making whatever you want to do Bullet Proof . It also means you don’t need a single vote from the other side to pass whatever you want to . You can treat the other side like chumps if you want to and that is what they did . They and Obama never sought the input of the GOP on this and when suggestions were given they were ignored . If you want proof I would refer you to the meeting where Ryan schooled Obama on this and budgetary issues . And no I don’t need to cite sources on stuff that has been widely reported . If you were paying attention you would know this . If you don’t know common terms ( Super Majority ) please by all means don’t embarrass yourself ..Your rants without even knowing what a Super Majority is in Congress just goes to show how uniformed the left is . For you to question me when you don’t seem to know what a Super Majority is unbelievably ignorant and intolerant . ..stop ranting against someone you are ill equipped to debate .. Maybe you should try getting out of your mothers basement and away from the xbox and bong once in awhile

          • Lisztman

            Sorry to disappoint you. I know what a supermajority is. And there hasn’t been one since 2010. It only applies to the Senate. The ACA was modeled on the plan introduced in Massachusetts by their Legislature and Gov. Mitt Romney (remember him?). The essence of answers from the Republican minority was that they wanted no part of it. So it was pushed through anyway. That’s what majorities do (e.g., they’ve now had 37 votes in the House to repeal the ACA).

            Oh. Chumps? Personal insults? My mom is 88. I’m 62. I don’t own an XBox. I also have a BS from a respected university, and a 40-year resume of work experience in Engineering. “Uninformed”? I don’t think so…

          • bikejedi

            So if you know what it is then why are you questioning me ? Or did you look it up while we were debating the issues ? Obamacare has very little in common with the Mass law although the libs like to throw that talking point out there . Also of interest is the fact that the economics of Mass in a good economy and the Nation under Obamanomics are two completely different animals . So your mom is 88 ? Good to hear I hope she is in good health , so why are you still living in her basement smoking stuff in that pipe . Ok …I’m going to try this a different way Lisztman . I was chiding you because you seemed to be trying to ridicule me . Why don’t we try this again . I actually think you are pretty intelligent but you seem a little behind on current events and the nomenclature of the day . I have read what you say and do consider it while not agreeing with most of it . I decided to get sarcastic and condescending with you because that is what it seemed you were doing with me . My normal style is a little sarcastic but I try not to put anyone down . Have a nice weekend .

          • Lisztman

            I was questioning you because there’s no such thing as a supermajority in the House. So it seemed you didn’t quite know about what it was you were discussing.

            If you wish to stay above the fray and take a high road and engage in a rational debate — you’ll avoid using terms like “ObamaTAX” (accent on the caps); “Bribe.” And the like.

            And, again, in ALL of the above — you toss around stuff — but when it comes to actual facts you absolutely refuse to provide source references. Any academic; any journalist; any scientist; any writer; … will tell you that if you’re presenting documented fact, you provide the references. Otherwise it’s either pure opinion, or pure fiction.

            At the last:

            “Lisztman you are embarrassing yourself . All of this was widely reported. I shouldn’t have to cite any sources . YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT IT. The fact you don’t seem to know would seem to indicate that maybe you should go back to Grade School to learn for some basic reasoning skills .
            And that’s where the sarcasm and condescension started. Not when I asked you to review your 10/11th grade American history. It obviously IS your style to bandy about fictional facts — and when you’re called on them, to start insulting your opponent.

          • bikejedi

            I’ve considered you recommendations and decided I don’t agree with some of them . For instance I prefer to call the ACA ObamaTAX because it is a more accurate term . The Supreme Court in their Ruling had to rewrite the Bill so Roberts could vote for it . Instead of ruling on the Bill the way the Dems had poorly written it , Justice Roberts decided to rewrite it for them and then rule on it . So He ruled that the words Penalty and Fines were Taxes so I prefer to call it the way Roberts ruled . The law is a Tax law and should be declared unconstitutional based on the fact that all budgetary issues are supposed to originate in the House and this one originated in the Senate . And if you have to Bribe your own Representatives to vote for a bill that your President so desperately wanted and Campaigned for then that is a BRIBE . What do you want me to call it ? Do you want me to use Liberal double speak ? You know like the Liberals do when they try to call Illegal Aliens Undocumented Immigrants or Undocumented Dem Voters ? Ok then maybe we can call those Undocumented Bribes . Everything I cite is fact and I shouldn’t have to provide sources for stuff that has been out there for ever . I would suggest you broaden your news choices so you can see what people other then the sycophants on the left think of Obama .

          • Lisztman

            Why don’t you simply call it the ACA? Or “Obamatax”, if you prefer. It’s the caps that makes it derogatory. The SC didn’t rewrite anything. Roberts simply found it constitutional based on the right of Congress to tax. Had he found it unconstitutional based on its having originated in the Senate (I’m not sure that it did, but I’ll take your word for it) — he would have said so, and voted against it. Obviously you know more about constitutional law than either he or I.

            There were no bribes involved in its passage. There was a certain amount of compromise involved in its construction in order to make it palatable to a majority. That is not the same as a bribe. (BTW, did you know that this site permits ital and bold tags?) There was no reason to call it anything. That was what is supposed to be normal, pragmatic, give-and-take compromise — the stuff that Congress is supposed to be doing — as opposed to the Boehner & Co. “here’s what we want — take it or leave it.”

            “Illegal aliens” = “Undocumented Dem Voters”? Here’s a good example of why I have difficulty giving you any respect. It is illegal for a non-citizen to register to vote. Per Wikipedia (see? source):

            “Non-citizens convicted in criminal court of having made a false claim of citizenship for the purpose of registering to vote in a federal election can be fined and imprisoned for up to a year. Deportation and removal proceedings have resulted in several such cases.”

            At the time I registered in New York State I was required to show my birth certificate as proof of citizenship. That was a long time ago (when the voting age was 21 — it became 18 the following year). I don’t know what the current requirements are.

            “Everything I cite is fact.” Please supply your sources. You’re either making stuff up or too lazy to bother to back up what you allege (e.g. “Dem Voters”).

          • bikejedi

            Lisztman ..Roberts rewrote large segments of it and even changed Fee , Penalty , and Fine in the bill into the word Tax . That was his rational to vote for it . Were you even paying attention to all the scathing reviews of the ruling or do you only watch MSNBC ? Is that why you think everything if fabulous ? And there were BRIBES ..You can sugar coat it any way you want . You can even use Liberal Double speak to change the word bribe . The fact of the matter is when you have to pay your own members to vote for something you are BRIBING them to do it .

          • Lisztman

            I did not object to your use of the word “tax”. I objected to your insistence on caps.

            No one, I repeat, no one, was “paid” to vote for something — which would be a bribe. Congressional logrolling is something completely different, and has been a tradition for around 224 years. Go look it up, please.

          • bikejedi

            See that’s what I mean . That is just Liberal double speak akin to calling Illegal Aliens Undocumented Immigrants , or a Muslim Terrorist Attack a Spontaneous protest . You call it Logrolling and I say these aren’t lumberjacks . I’m sure that the majority of people who are aware of it call it a Bribe as most of the people who know about this bill abhor it . Have a nice weekend

          • Lisztman

            “Most of the people … abhor it.” And from that you come up with bribes? Man, you have some problems.

          • bikejedi

            Yeah I have some problems .. that’s funny . Especially since anyone that is informed on the subject ( even most Libs ) would call them what they were …Bribes . Have a nice weekend I am going Logrolling now

  • The important part of this poll is that most of the objectors felt that Obamacare didn’t go far enough; when it counted, the president really didn’t push hard enough for single care, and then he blamed congressional Democrats for not supporting him – when he had not supported them.

    • charleo1

      I don’t recall the President blaming Democrats. I’ve gotten exasperated,
      that he speaks only of Congressional obstruction. And, not Republican
      obstruction, which has been the case, most of the time. And while there
      is a great deal of support for a single pay Medicare for all, option. There
      was not at any time in the process, enough support from Democrats to
      pass single pay. What did seem to be influencing Obama’s strategy was
      the failure of the Clinton Administration, that tried to manage a healthcare
      bill from the White House. What Clinton learned is, there happened to be a good reason, every President since Truman, has flirted with a National Health Plan. But failed to deliver. It’s next to impossible to take on these
      insurance cos, the hospital corporations, and drug cos. medical
      equipment manufactures, and the rest. But, Obama blaming his own
      Party? Look, I think Obama was going to go with the best the Senate
      could do. And, I think that’s what we’ve got. Does it go far enough?
      No. I don’t think so. So I agree with you 100% on the public option.
      And myself a Democrat, am loathe to admit it. But the Democratic
      Party is almost as hogtied by the big money, as the Republicans.
      It simply is what it is. So, I believe we can take what we got. And
      build on it. If we can keep the progressive Democrats in office.

      • Lisztman

        The President has not “blamed Democrats”. The ACA is a pragmatic solution to a host of thorny issues. While not perfect (I personally believe a single-payer system would be better, but I’m no expert) — it was the best compromise solution that could find sufficient support for passage.

        Over time there WILL be areas in which it is found deficient. That should be a given. It is equally a given that as deficiencies are identified, the holes will be plugged. But the 2009 status quo left far too many citizens dangling in the breeze with no options, and the GOP’s answer is, “So what?”

        • charleo1

          A thorny issue, is right. Our entire healthcare system,
          is a good example of an unregulated, monopolized,
          shake down operation, run amuck. And, it’s also under
          handed. Example: I had to go to the emergency room.
          The closest one, is not on my HMOs provider list. But,
          it could have been serious. I give them my insurance
          card. Their eyes light up. So, it’s probably vertigo. But,
          of course, it could be a brain tumor. So, while they put
          the IV in my arm, and, I guess my insurance card went
          through. So, they order an MRI. And a battery of blood
          tests. And a lady, very nice comes in, her white coat
          said Dr. Something on it. Asks if I’m allergic to anything.
          And leaves. By now I’m in full regalia. With wires on
          my chest, the machine monitoring, and reporting,
          they have a live one! After several more doctors come
          in, ask how I’m feeling. I say better, thanks. and they
          leave. So, I’m not entirely sure I’m covered. So I’m
          counting the doctors! But, I’m literally tied down! So,
          I can’t stop them from walking in. A few weeks later,
          I get this bill in the mail for $700.00. From a doctor.
          that had evidently walked in, and out, and now wanted
          his hard earned money! I called my insurance Co.
          Turns out, the insurance Co. had a contract with this
          doctor, and had already paid him his, $85,00.
          Well, when you said thorny. I though, you better
          believe it’s thorny!

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            What pisses me off is the “additional” charges that you have to pay for out of pocket.

            When you get an X-Ray, the doctor reads it which he should. But then, they send it out to another firm which reads it again and charges you the fee.

            This looks to me like Double Billing for the same read.

            Then after you get out of the hospital, you’re getting bills from the Doctors Office. Afterall, the Doctor has his own billing procedure directly from his office since the hospital considers the doctors service more or less as a independent contractor and is not required to put his bill in with the hospitals billing system.

            And, oh boy, do they charge on the medical supplies. Bed Pads I had to get for my mom a few years ago, the very same thing at a pet store was a 10th of what it was from a medical supply house. Hell, even Ebay was selling them at a 10th.

            And, these specialty clinics are the worst. I had a Colonosopty done a few months ago. I paid only $200 (I think). But, if I paid out directly out of pocket, it would have been around $3,600. If you had to pay it on time, they sure had a program for that, at 100% Interest over time.

            Ad Nauseum Infinity!

          • charleo1

            It’s a license to steal. And, they are allowed to charge
            whatever they can get away with. It’s one reason we
            pay so much more for care here, than people in other
            Countries do. I haven’t talked to them all, of course.
            But, in S. Florida, near Miami, where I live. We always
            have the Canadians, and they always seem perfectly
            happy. Not, scientific, but, if you look at the various
            ways to quantify, and compare, there’s no overall
            differences. They even live a bit longer. Probably from
            not having to worry about getting sick, and bankrupting
            their family. They just don’t have their politicians so
            beholden to the big companies. Like we do here. So, the people get a seat at the table. I hate it comes down to that.
            I hate to even say it. But, even their drug prices are lower. What does it say about our system, that people can go into Canada, and buy their drugs out of pocket, and save money, over what they would be charged in co-pays here. I guess
            I’ll answer my own question. I think it means our system is a
            big rip off in a lot ways. And I think it ought to be a crime
            when people die here in this Country, because of it.

        • idamag

          Of course they will find areas that need work. The idea is to invent the machine and improve it over time.

  • It’s very strange how we call. Protecting and Providing for the welfare of the common good “Liberalism”! How come we don’t call it “Conservatism”? After all it should only be “common sense” too cherish and protect “Life”? But I guess its all the responsibility of that “nasty” word called “Liberalism”. When it comes to ALEC and its Tea Party as the heart and soul of Christian and Conservative values today? But what is the Heritage Action for America letter too John Boehner and Eric Cantor. All about?

    “Excerpts” from Heritage Action for America letter to John Boehner and Eric Cantor.

    May 16, 29013

    “It would be imprudent to do anything that shifts the focus
    from the Obama Administration to the “ideological differences” within the House
    Republican Conference”. [The ideological differences of ALEC and its Tea Party]

    “Make no mistake, “principled conservatives” [True Christian and Conservative Values] will stilloppose bad policy [our obstructions and deregulations] if it comes to the
    floor. Rather than scheduling such legislation for consideration, we [Heritage
    Action for America]urge you to keep the attention focused on the Obama Adaminstration. As the “Public Trust” in their government continues to “Erodes”! There it
    is in Black and White. [The True Agenda “To destroy the Public Trust”!!!]

    It is incumbent upon us who support a smaller, less intrusive government to lead.

    That is to say!

    “We all Signed a Pledge [a Solemn Oath] laid against Our
    Constitutional Oath unto “We the People”. In the devaluation laid against Sovereignty.
    The well-being and self-governing of the American Family! The Gift, of a “Republic/Republicanism”!

    A solemn Oath too:

    Obstruct and hinder the “right to vote”. Obstruct and hinder the “referendum” in repealing the “people’s petition”.
    Cut or eliminate “veterans” benefits. Repeal or privatize the public contribution to Social Security and Medicare. Get rid of government student loans or double the interest rate. Get rid of corporate unemployment checks. Get rid of government grants and loans. Get rid of government and corporate pension plans. Down grade the governments “Credit
    Rating”.

    As it all started with corporate loopholes and their great tax exempt status! As it set the loss of 12 million jobs: in out sourcing them to China. In agreat economic melt down destroying the Peoples Trust. That brought us to where we are today. All sponsored by a Sign Pledge to ALEC and its’ Tea Party. In the very words “no one will be left behind”. Preceding a book called “no
    apologies”!

    • oldtack

      In reference to all those “Moral Majority” Fundamental Evangelical defenders of GODS WORD.

      I perceive that what these SAINTS who know so well what GODS will is for the World always coincides with their own desires.
      Sounds like Tea Time.

      • Lisztman

        God’s will is, apparently, that they be allowed to sit at home and do what they wish. That they pay nothing in taxes and demand nothing in return. Unless, of course, they get sick — or disabled — or old — or a tornado blows their house down — or their road gets filled with potholes — or their house is burgled when they’re away — etc. etc. IOW, they don’t want anything from the government until they suddenly discover they need something.

        And, of course, they cherry-pick the Bible. “Marriage is between a man and a woman,” for instance. They conveniently forget about the parts such as “Love thy neighbor,” and “take care of the poor.” Bigots hiding behind God’s robes. Sunday Christians. Blecch.

        • oldtack

          Amen!
          I am a Christian but my wife and I are finding it difficult to find a place of worship in this area because of the radicals you described.

          • Lisztman

            PS, oldtack. So am I. But I do my best to live the proper life 24/7/365. NOT just for a few hours on Sunday.

          • oldtack

            Ditto
            Same with me and my wife. Still miss good worship services on Sunday. Our mega church more resembles a rock concert.

  • charleo1

    On the issue of healthcare, there are a couple of ways Americans can
    choose to think about the new healthcare law. Like many progressives,
    or Stalinist, as we’re better known over at Fox. I believe we should handle
    healthcare the way most other industrialized countries have. With what we
    would understand as a Medicare for all, method of delivery. With all the
    horror stories about the rip offs of Medicare, I suppose many would be
    surprised to know, it is the least expensive way, dollar for dollar, that we
    deliver healthcare in this Country. Is it perfect, no. Want to guess how
    many people sent their Medicare cards back to the government last year?
    Want to guess how many times the private insurance cos. refused to cover
    a procedure last year? Or, how many times they refused to pay for a drug,
    the doctor prescribed. What I think the GOP has done is a bit cruel. It’s
    implied that we could just throw healthcare reform on the garbage heap.
    And go back to the way it was before. The reality is, when it comes to
    healthcare, we really can’t go home again. And if we think about it, home
    never was all it was cracked up to be. There were estimates of 25/30 million
    working Americans, before the great recession, that were uninsured. Their
    employers didn’t offer a plan. They couldn’t afford the premiums of a plan.
    Or, had a chronic, or per-existing condition. Those numbers rose to as high
    as 50 million by the fall of 2010. And, if we dared look, we could see the cracks
    already widening. Public hospitals, dependent on State, and Federal funds,
    to care for uninsured, indigent patients, were on the brink of bankruptcy.
    As both State, and Federal Governments struggled with enormous budgetary
    shortfalls. There was one gentleman, sick with cancer, too young for Medicare,
    and homeless. Pretended to rob a bank, so he would be sent to prison. He
    thought they provided better treatment there, than he was receiving on the
    street. To my friends that are concerned about the new healthcare program.
    ObamaCare. I tell them to wait, until the law in is full effect. And, I tell them,
    we are already paying 3X as much for our healthcare, as any other Country.
    We’re going broke trying to pay for it. And, we’re not living any longer, or
    staying any healthier, than anybody else. But, we can never go home again.
    It doesn’t exist anymore.

    • angelsinca

      “Like many progressives, or Stalinist, as we’re better known over at Fox.”

      When I need to feel racist, obstructionist, subversive, unpatriotic, dead wrong or The Problem, I go to CNN, MSNBC and HLN for a recharge.

      • charleo1

        Ouch! Well, they do call us Liberals, all kinds of things, over
        their on Fox that have absolutely nothing to do with who we are.

        • angelsinca

          Perhaps a campaign to let people know who you are would be more effective than just slamming FoXNews for calling you something you aren’t.

          • RobertCHastings

            Well, it is true. Have you ever listened to the regulars like Sean Hannity or Bill O’Reilly? And some of their regulars like Ann Coulter? There is no love lost.

          • angelsinca

            There’s 3 out of an entire network. But, O’Reilley doesn’t make sweeping generalizations about liberals. He is disliked because he is critical of Obama, nevermind he was equally critical of Bush when deserved. Coulter is just a contributor, an annoying one at that. Hannity is too extreme for most reasonable people. Tuned out his incessant whining a very long time ago.

          • RobertCHastings

            I am really not that concerned about what happened to the other half of Hannity & Colmes, but Fox has aligned itself with a political agenda that is entirely inappropriate for any news source that claims to be “fair and honest”. Owned by Rupert Murdock (whose affiliates have been disgraced in England), Fox does not do news, they do propaganda, and good propaganda is often disguised as news commentary. Yes, the same could easily be said of ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, etc., but it is amazing that one can turn to any one of those and get pretty much the same story and get something entirely different on Fox.

          • angelsinca

            “…and get something entirely different on Fox.”

            Conservatives call it a different perspective. Good observation.

          • RobertCHastings

            Comparing apples to oranges also provides a different perspective. Comparing news to propaganda does not equate. Hitler’s propaganda machine in Germany, and the countries occupied by the Third Reich, produced PROPAGANDA, not news. It produced what they wanted the German people to hear, that Germany and the Aryan race were far superior to their adversaries, that Germany was winning the war and would rule the world for 1,000 years, even though it was not news, but what the Nazi government wanted the people to hear. Fox “News” takes real news and morphs it into something that is not news, but propaganda. Using some discretion when following FOX generally leads to different conclusions from what the commentators are aiming for.

          • angelsinca

            Type your reply…

          • angelsinca

            “Fox “News” takes real news and morphs it into something that is not news, but propaganda.”

            Examples. Please provide examples of NEWS reports on FoxNews that are just like the Nazi propaganda machine. As an otherwise normal commenter RobertH, this statement about Nazis at Fox assures your place in the hall of ridiculous. You nust agree that the National Memo, that paints the Obama admoinistration as flawless and the GOP/Republicans/Conservation as only flawed seems to have a hint of PROPAGANDA. This is one of your ‘news’ sources, right?

          • RobertCHastings

            National Memo is not one of my sources for news. It does, however, offer good starting points for research. If you are unaware of how beholden Fox News is to Rupert Murdoch and NewsCorp, then there is not much that I can do to remedy that, except to let you know that this has been in international news for over two years. If you are unable to read news with some degree of objectivity that allows you to question what you read, then you would not be able to discern the difference between news and propaganda. Watch one hour of The McNeill – Lehrer news hour on your local PBS channel and se if you can discern any differences between what PBS says about specific news items and what Fox News has to say about the same items. If you see no difference, then you are pretty much tone deaf.

          • Lisztman

            Hate to tell you, inca, but, yes, for the most part those who watch Fox “News” with regularity take no issue with anything said, and, with a goosestep mentality, will cheer, “Right on, bro!”

          • angelsinca

            It isn’t necessary to mock those you do not understand.

          • Lisztman

            There is no question that National Memo leans left (very left, at times). And the articles they present (and, BTW, National Memo is an observer, not a news outlet) lean left, as well. But they report the whole story, not just what their readers want to hear.

            E.g.: http://www.nationalmemo.com/by-more-than-3-1-voters-tell-congress-to-focus-on-economy-over-scandals/

            Go down several paragraphs. It actually reports that more than half (57%) of respondents to a poll believed the IRS thing “is a scandal”. Not what you’d expect it the NM were merely a lapdog. It has been YEARS since I’ve heard any criticism of the right from Fox.

          • Lisztman

            It’s not as simple as “perspective”. It is the meat of a story. And the relative importance of stories.

            Using Benghazi as an example — nearly the same material has been reported by all the networks, including Fox. E.g., it’s been noted that the nearest “help” (troops, air cover, etc.) that could have been provided was nine hours away, and NOT on standby. Except Fox doesn’t bother to mention stuff like that. Instead they quote, yet again, the GOP Congressman (with an ax to grind and a rabble to rouse) asking, yet again, why help wasn’t sent.

            “Perspective”? Sure. “Fair and balanced”? Hardly.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            This is why every Cable Service classified Fox News as an “Entertainment Channel”, not a legit news agency.

            But, I do wonder why every other channel has the same news. They probably all get their latest news from the AP Wire Service.

            The only true independent news service I have seen or heard is PBS, Al Zerira (wrong spelling), and of course via Short Wave.

          • Lisztman

            Yes, they probably all get their breaking news from the same pooled resources like AP.
            Where they differ is in the relative time allocated to certain stories — or, in the case of something open to debate — how much time is given to “the other side.”

          • RobertCHastings

            PBS is in the business of purveying news, while ALL commercial TV networks are in the business of selling advertising, and whatever slant they can put on the reportage determines who chooses them to advertise their various products. IF, as in the case of Fox, they can manage to throw in some propaganda that gets the less educated (like Obozomustgo) to view and accept their viewpoints, then all the better. Fox, as I have said before, is no more independent than any other source (except PBS), and much more beholden than most to its conservative owner, Rupert Murdoch.
            I have mentioned Al Jazeera only because they are the source to whom Al Gore sold his network, although I have yet to view them. In my opinion, the Americanization of BBC has detracted some from its credibility, although you can still get a much better view of the world from them than from any American network.

          • Lisztman

            O’Reilly is disliked by “liberals” (and those who actually THINK about things) because he makes up his own “facts” to suit his purposes. Ditto for Rush, Hannity, and the rest of them. Their purpose is NOT to deliver news. It’s to provide entertainment under the guise of political analysis — and the latter is woefully lacking. But it serves to rouse the uneducated rabble.

          • angelsinca

            “But it serves to rouse the uneducated rabble.”

            Not really. Conservatives aren’t prone to rousing, much less being incited to do so by opinionated talk shows. I’d be disappointed in conservative talk show hosts too if I went there to get news. We watch news programs for that. Fox has good news. The rest is popular conservative entertainment. But, O’Reilly is The Wounded Warrior Project. Like his delivery or not, he’s helping the vets, the wounded vets where the Gov’t just can’t seem to get headed in that direction. He deserves more credit for that contribution than his critics debit for his criticisms. He hasn’t criticed me. And probably not you, either. He can be an ass, sure. But he’s trusted.

          • Lisztman

            “Conservatives aren’t prone to rousing.”

            You have obviously NEVER listened to Hannity, or Limbaugh, or any of a host of others, on RW Talk Radio. The whole purpose is to rouse the rabble. And, BTW, should anyone happen to try to debate a point with them, s/he gets disconnected VERY quickly.

          • angelsinca

            Your assumptions that are obvious to you are altogether not factual. I have listened to Hannity-too opinionated. I have listed to Limbaugh-bloviates too much. These two on the RW don’t appeal to me so I don’t listen to them. You, on the other hand, must voice your dislike for them, perhaps to reinforce your dislike for the right, it seems. I just ignore what I don’t like. I don’t bitch at it, hoping it goes away or that it will change to suit me. That would be….ridiculous

          • Lisztman

            Not at all. And I do NOT have a “dislike” for the right. I usually disagree with their political philosophy. I appreciate proper debate. I do not appreciate those who know only how to toss insults; who misspell “Obama” on purpose (morphing it into various idiotic insults); etc. I respond properly to considered opinion.

            My ONLY requirement of those with whom I debate is that, if they decide to cite facts — factual or otherwise (and I see a lot of the latter) — that they provide the source for those facts so I can judge the merits. If the source is respected journalism (NY Times, extreme left; Washington Times (no, not the Post), extreme right) — or the source is an academic study from a respected institution such as Columbia University or Southern Methodist U — I’ll accept the data and think about it. If the “data” comes from the Westboro Baptist Church, or an equally inane group on the left (and, yes, they do exist), then I toss the data back at them and ask for a “real” source.

          • Lisztman

            PS. I also have a problem with a House of Representatives which has accomplished little in the last four years except trying to block anything that the President or Senate moves in their direction. Oh, and 37 useless votes to overturn the ACA. Can’t they find something else to do?

          • angelsinca

            All good, yet it seems inescapable that the same data produce different conclusions.

          • Lisztman

            Sorry, inca. There is next to NO ONE at Fox who will EVER criticize the GOP. (Please name ONE who does. Give me a link to a Fox video that actually supports something, anything, not endorsed by the Republican Party.) Who will demand accountability from the House, or Cantor, or Boehner. There used to be a “Hannity and Combs” or something like that. They chose a pipsqueak to speak from the left and let Hannity run roughshod over him.

            A VERY large portion of the problem is that the “Fox News” banner runs over everything. Nowhere are there any disclaimers that say “the opinions expressed on this program are those of the participants.” Nope. Because Fox doesn’t EVER present any opinions from the right. If you believe the “other” TV stations are no better — then go read a mainstream newspaper (e.g., The NY Times, the Washingon Post, et al). They all have conservative columnists as well as liberal columnists. Funny how the right-wing-leaning media (e.g., Fox, Washington Times, AM Radio) only present one side of it. “Fair and balanced,” my backside.

          • angelsinca

            Don’t like Fox, don’t watch it.

          • Lisztman

            I don’t watch Fox. I also don’t watch MSNBC, or CNN, or ABC, etc. I don’t watch TV except for reruns of NCIS and an occasional ball game.
            The point was that Fox does not make the effort to let you know that roughly 50% of its programming is “certified news” — and the other 50% is pure opinion and/or entertainment. And they don’t bother to tell you which is which….

          • angelsinca

            I agree and likewise limit watching any one program for news or opinion, much less the tv for anything more than old movie on occassion. If FoxNew has to label its content for news vs opinion, then the Fox detracters aren’t quite as bright as they claim to be. Appreciate the truth that they do offer more than just highly opinionated trash talk.

    • RobertCHastings

      Except for socialist/Stalinist remark, I agree with you on every point. On Medicare, I have survived triple bypass, but must pay eye and dental care. My daughter has a preexisting and pays premiums that her grandmother paid just a few years ago – ridiculously high. Employers who provide insurance for employees should perhaps be allowed to treat that as at least partial income for the beneficiary, making the program more affordable for employers, and encouraging those employers who DON’T provide some incentive to get into the market. Your figures about how much we pay compared to other countries, while taken from campaigns from years ago, is still right on target, a ratio of about 3/1, and, as you say, we don’t get very good value for our investment – our life-expectancy is well below that of the first five countries on the list, and below that of at least 20 others. As with all the lamentations regarding “the good old days”, they are a myth.

      • charleo1

        You’re right. Fox doesn’t call Democrats, Socialist/Stalinist.
        But, Limbaugh does. That aside, my daughter who is 35 now.
        Has had type 1 diabetes, since she was 12. So, I know of
        what you speak. And, it seems perfectly reasonable, to me.
        If, employers are punished for not providing healthcare to their
        employees. Should it not then be counted as part of overhead?
        At least part of it? Not tax expert. But I think it makes sense.

        • RobertCHastings

          I don’t consider myself the sharpest tool in the workshed, but if we can come up with simple proposals like this that make it easier for employers to offer insurance and for employees to get insurance, the guys in DC should be able to do so, also. Small businesses are offered all kinds of incentives to hire certain categories of people, getting tax incentives for hiring long-term unemployed, for hiring the handicapped, ex-cons, etc. An incentive to offer affordable insurance to their employees AND their families sounds eminently reasonable to me, even if it would need to be subsidized. Too many folks in this country already suffer in one way or another due to no insurance or inadequate insurance.

  • Archie’s Boy

    This poll is useless because opinions on both sides are too uninformed. The Obama administration did a lousy job of clarification on the ACA in the first place. The Repubs simply can’t stand it that this law, when it goes into full effect, will actually be a large complex government law that actually helps large numbers of people. When this is fully realized, they will look even more like the recalcitrant obstructionists that they are, which has them in a frenzy. Paul Krugman came out with the clearest explanation yet at http://nyti.ms/13d9Kad .

    • jetfuel4

      You guys are pathetic….one thing ‘ol Paul forgot to mention….do you know how much coverage those surprisingly low rates offered….ya, didn’t quite tell you that part did he. Obama actually gave the insurance industry the brass ring, no cost containment…none…..eat it up lib’s, and don’t be too shocked when it’s all said and done. I believe something could be done and I believe in some of the principles in Obamacare….but it’s not in this legislation, neither was it in Romneycare…look it up, it has been tweaked many times. Rome fell for some very simple reasons….greed, corruption and financial collapse….and it wasn’t just the elite, it was the populace who would not deal with the fact that the empire could not sustain their lifestyle. You might feel it’s your “right” as an American….unfortunately, a lot of your prosperity has already been spent by prior generations…..sorry, just the way it is.

      • Yappy2

        One of the problems is there are a few very wealthy and greedy people and corporations that don’t give a damn about the people of this country. America has given them enourmous benefits and ways to earn money and they have turned their backs on America. I am for making a profit but their is also something known as a happy medium and morals.

      • Lisztman

        Once again from the right — a whole pile of allegations, and not ONE source cited. jetfuel — you’ve drunk too much of it. Nice rant. Now, if you actually supplied us with some documented facts

        • jetfuel4

          calhealth.net/California_health_insurance_Rate_Shock.html
          Okay a**bag, start reading…..put your http and www where you need it….

          • Lisztman

            Ok. Read and understood. Two points: 1) You missed the part about someone trying to sell something (all the “Click here for quotes” boxes). 2) You missed that last paragraph that says that you are subsidized up to 400% of the Fed poverty level. That means that if you have income below $95K (family of four) you won’t see all the sticker shock. AND — this is referring to individual policies (note the target of the ad is “you”. This is not the same as employer-provided health coverage — which is done in groups. The whole purpose of the “exchange” system is to allow individuals to become part of a group, which will keep prices down.

            Meanwhile. Here’s one from Forbes (a respected conservative publication), which is probably the source for the ad to which you directed me.
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/

            It talks about apples and oranges — because, YES, if you are an individual buying individual insurance, and you choose to continue to do it that way, yes, your costs will go up. BUT — if you move into an exchange, your rate will probably go down.

            And — one from the left.
            http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-05/beware-of-hysteria-over-new-health-insurance-rates.html

            Good reading material. Please read them both.

          • jetfuel4

            From the Kaiser Family Foundation… Try it out.

            Notice what it does to middle class families who make too much money in 2014: they fall off a financial cliff.

            Plug in your family salary… I used age of 46…. family of four… Higher priced plans.

            $30,000 in income: Medicaid: cost ZIP

            $38,000 in income: $16,032 tax credit,…Cost of health premium $1,734

            $44,000 in income: $15,240 tax credit…..Cost of health premium $2,526

            $88,000 in in come: $9,406 tax credit….Cost of health premium $8,360

            $90,000 in income : $9,216 tax credit…Cost of health premium $8,550

            $93,000in income: $8,931 tax credit…. Cost of health premium: $8,835

            $94,000 in income: ZERO tax credit…. Cost of health premium: $17,766

            This is truly a complete redistribution of wealth in America bar none, and it’s not the “super rich” that are getting hurt.

          • Lisztman

            I’ll repeat my reply. You missed it the first time. Please read it this time. You are assuming someone who, first of all, has privately-funded individual coverage. You are assuming, second, that that someone CHOOSES for whatever reason, to keep that same individual coverage, rather than joining a “group” (exchange) — which will bring the costs down. IOW you’re only seeing that half you wish to see. Were you to be in that $90K bracket and actually paying all that, you’d run to the exchange.

          • jetfuel4

            wrong

    • Lisztman

      Re: The GOP can’t stand it… And because Big Insurance might be forced to actually pay claims in addition to collecting premiums. Wow. Service for payment. What a concept!

      • idamag

        That part has already been changed. Some people got rebates from their insurance companies. Because of the ACA, the insurance companies have to put 80% of premiums collected back into healthcare.

  • vippy

    Obamacare is a start and now it needs more work towards single payer. In Germany our healthcare included dental. Surely, a country that claims to be the biggest and best can take care of its people.

    • angelsinca

      “Surely, a country that claims to be the biggest and best can take care of its people. ”

      It’s too busy taking care of everyone BUT its own people.

      • vippy

        And we keep voting for the same dopes over and over until they die in office!

        • Fern Woodfork

          Well Great News Michelle Bachmann Lying Ass Wont Run Again!!!!!!!!!!!!:-)

          • idamag

            Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!

      • charleo1

        very true.

    • RobertCHastings

      Sounds great to me. As a retiree, I would have to pay almost as much for dental insurance as I already pay for my Medicare supplement. Being from outside the US, you have a valuable outsiders view of its healthcare system. Honestly, how does it stack up against ours?

      • vippy

        Had I known I would have stayed home. Our healthcare included dental as well, never did cost me a dime. Had my appendix taken out and got to stay 2 weeks in the hospital I remember. We have to have the worst of healthcare because the income does not match in no way the cost for buying insurance.

        • Mikey7a

          I just had to ask for something called Care Credit to get a new set of dentures. This is a loan, with 26.99% interest, oh and a $1.66 per $100. of remaining balance insurance, in case I DIE before paying it back. I live in Florida, so although I am completely disabled, I only get something called Share of Cost Medicaid. I get $879 SS disability. My share of cost is $649 a month. I COULD fake chest pains, go to an ER, run up a bogus $5000. ER (omg) bill, then quickly go to the dentist that accepts Medicaid. You see, that is what’s wrong with our current health care system for low income people. I for one will not cheat, as I feel that just adds to the problem. i PRAY for a single payer system in America, but doubt I’ll see it before i die. ACA is a great start!

          • RobertCHastings

            great post. thanks.

          • jetfuel4

            This has to be the saddest postings I’ve ever read…..if anyone wonders WHAT is wrong READ these posts….I’m sorry…you guys ARE the problem…..

          • RobertCHastings

            You apparently have an issue with what Mikey7a had to say. His case is not unusual, and all you need do is a little research to find that what he says is true. The problem is not the people that are sick, the problem is a medical care system that will not treat them like anything more than checkbooks.

          • jetfuel4

            There shouldn’t be social security or medicaid….at least not in it’s present form….and yes, there is a fundamental social problem with America in regards to health AND death. As harsh as it sounds, why do you believe you have a “right” to live at the expense of others….just because you’re old? Everyone gets old, it’s not special. I have buried both my parents and 3 brothers….I understand the cycle of life.

          • RobertCHastings

            I am not living at the expense of others. Everything I have put into both Social Security and Medicare over the 45 years of my working career are being returned to me as part of a social contract between me and my government. I have saved and invested enough to supplement what you so strenuously object to so that I am able to enjoy a comfortable retirement. I have buried both my parents and their siblings, and my daughter, so I too understand the cycle of life, and have no problem with the social net that has been created in this country. A few states have seen fit to deal with an individual’s basic right to choose the time, manner, and place of his death, something is of the utmost humanity. When I get to the end of my life and am a burden upon my family AND myself, I intend to avail myself of whatever resources are available for dying with dignity. Rights as laid out by such universally accepted documents as our own Declaration of Independence and The Universal Declaration of Human Rights declare my right to live and die with dignity.

          • jetfuel4

            What I object to Robert, is a ponzi scheme. If the government wishes to assist it’s citizens with a “forced” savings system with a rate of return (that they contribute too and draw from an individual account) fine, no problem. No different with a medical account, I like my HSA and wish it had been available earlier. But SS and MC is poorly conceived, poorly implemented and was entirely politcial…same mistake Rome made with it’s citizens…and in the end, unsustainable and led to their fall. You cannot create a “false” standard of living and expect it to survive. Your partner extracted over 1000 times more than he ever put in (I’m being generous)….and that is ONE person. How can we maintain that? I’m a numbers guy….and the numbers don’t add up and they never were. Now I’m already being told, by my government, that I will be lucky to see .75 cents on the dollar for my contributions….not exactly fair would you say. And before you start with “them, they etc” WE THE PEOPLE are ultimately responsible and that includes YOU Robert…..

          • RobertCHastings

            #1- your 1,000x guesstimate is totally bogus. Take 14% of your income over the past 45 years, with interest accrual at the rate of at least 5% compounded annually, and see what you come up with. While folks like you seem to think a privatized SS account over which you have control would have earned more money over the same period, that’s highly unlikely, especially since half of the 14% was contributed by your employer. If you are such a stock market wizard, you are definitely not one who should be worrying over your Social Security. Yes, the 14% figure has not been the level at which our Soc. Sec. accounts have received money over the past 45 years, but try talking ANYONE who is just starting work at 18 -20 years old to begin investing in his retirement. Without Social Security, very few people would even begin to worry about their retirement until well into their forties, having by that time already lost tens of thousands in the compounded interest alone.

          • jetfuel4

            I combined the conversation….the reference of x1000 was the medical bill that was totally paid by the system ($700k)….unsustainable…..Your 14% 1/2 of which comes from the employer (job & wage killer) or total from self-employed. You can’t take a social system and compare it to a regular investment….it has never been handled by the government like that. You will be dead…but your family, especially your children and grandchildren are going to suffer more than you can imagine when this collapses…..IT CANNOT AND WILL NOT LAST….IT IS UNSUSTAINABLE !!! Starting with the SS expansion in ’65 the beginning of the end was put into play with an unmanageable system, and unmanageable debt. Next time you talk to your grandkids tell them thank you….I’m currently spending 25% of your SS……hahahahahahaha.

          • RobertCHastings

            While you are partially correct, Soc. Sec. does have some of the characteristics of a Ponzi scheme, it is not one in reality. The first person to receive benefits got out MUCH more than she put in. That is the way it works, and it will fail only when what goes out cannot be replaced. What I paid in supported my parents. What our kids are putting in is supporting us. That’s the way it was set up, and not very many smart people see an issue with that.

          • jetfuel4

            “That’s the way it was set up, and not very many smart people see an issue with that.”….ya, that’s why it is the 800lb gorrilla in the room EVERYBODY in Washington and financial circles are talking about…..hahahahahaha

          • RobertCHastings

            NOT everyone. Do you know what the third rail is on the subway line? That’s what Social Security is.

          • idamag

            Mikey, I do pray for a single payer system in America. I am on a single payer insurance. It costs less because administrative costs are less. My single payer insurance is in jeopardy as Paul Ryan is out to gut it. I have Medicare. For those of you who want to lump me in with the 47%, I pay a monthly premium. I also a paying for a medigap insurance. I want everyone to have the peace of mind that I have. There are some in this country who think healthcare should be a status symbol. If you are rich you can afford it. If you are not rich you die. That means Lindsey Lohan could get cosmetic surgery and a little boy with leukemia could not get a bone marrow transplant.

        • RobertCHastings

          I underwent triple-bypass surgery here 2 1/2 years ago and have not had to pay a dime and Medicare and my supplement covered it all. However, I still have to pay for half of my eye exams and ALL of the cost of new glasses, as well as all expenses related to dental care. My Part D supplement pays for some medication costs, but not nearly enough, and I am no place near the “donut-hole”. While there are many good aspects to our system, there is much more lacking that is, apparently, covered under the healthcare systems in other countries.
          People in this country seem to ignore the truths about our system 1)75,000 people a year die in the US from treatable conditions because they DON’T have access to affordable medical care, 2) hundreds of thousands of people every year in the US must file bankruptcy because of medical expenses, even though THEY ALREADY HAVE INSURANCE, 3) hundreds of thousands of people in the US die annually in US hospitals due to avoidable and preventable mistakes. The ACA is addressing all three of these issues.

          • vippy

            Because so many are so ignorant and brainwashed to believe that this is the best country. I am thinking where I came from we were 100 years ahead of the USA in labor rights and quality of life for the average person. If they only would take out the income of the 469 billionaires we would see the lower average income for the rest of us because their income distorts that figure something fierce.

          • idamag

            That is because Germany’s government is not owned by multi-national corporations. I spent some time in Germany. My little friend there had been in an auto accident and required lots of medical care and rehabilitation. I asked her if she was allowed to choose her own doctor and she said she was. I visited the hospital with her and was amazed at the hospital and the fact that no one had to pay anything to be in it.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            This is not unusual and this does not surprise me.

            I had a friend visit Jamaica a few years ago. He had to have a immediate Appendix Operation. Asked for the bill afterwards. They said; “WHAT BILL?, no one pays for any medical anything here”.

            Goes to show just how backwards the US actually is.

          • idamag

            My son’s neighbor went to Australia. He got in an automobile accident and broke both his legs. For quality medical care, he paid nothing.

          • RobertCHastings

            Don’t take out the income of the billionaires, send it back where it came from, the middle class. Over the past thirty years, since the reign of King Ronald, PACs and friendly legislators have built a tax code that makes it easy for the very rich to get very much richer, at the expense of the middle class and those even lower on the scale. IF Ryan would follow through on his promise to simplify the tax code, the wealthy would string him up by his balls, so that ploy was just a red herring. However, were the code to be simplified, dramatically, income disparity in this country would be much less drastic than it is now, and it would be easy for social programs like Soc. Sec. and Medicare to thrive.

          • plc97477

            But wouldn’t it be nice to see him swinging?

          • RobertCHastings

            Not a thing I would love to see more.

          • RobertCHastings

            By increasing the level of FICA contributions the wealthy must make, many of the economic issues of Medicare would be erased. As was stated earlier, we in the US spend 16% of our GDP on health care, while our industrialized allies in Europe and elsewhere spend about a third as much of their GDP, with better typical outcomes, and longer lives. Getting better for less just seems to be a no-brainer, until one has to deal with no brainers.

          • idamag

            One of my spouse’s hospital stays cost $700,000. I didn’t have to pay it. Think of what 20 percent of the
            $700,000 would do to a middle class family.

          • RobertCHastings

            That’s a chunk of change, man. Was she trying to have you permanently removed from her life? That was intended as a joke. Even in my small community there are two competing hospitals, with at least a dozen much larger ones within 50 miles. Costs for the same procedures vary wildly from hospital to hospital, sometimes even in the same hospital depending upon one’s insurance status. None of my business, but I would speculate that it was a compound transplant of some sort, No need to even respond to that. The triple-bypass was only about $55K, and they kicked me out in four days.
            I hope she, and you, made it through everything okay. Such an event is trying on everyone involved.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            I am 64, on Medicare due to Disability. Yep, I also pay a premium using AARP Untied. Gee, I wish I could stop them from calling all the dam time though.

            There are gaps in the plan, though it’s the best coverage I’ve ever had, even when I was working.

            These small co-pays and additional charges can add up over time.

            I don’t need Dental, had em all yanked out years ago. I don’t miss em either.

            Glasses, yea, they’re expensive as hell. And, just one pair don’t cover everything either. I need 4 pairs; 2 for computer use, one for general use, all 3 with Bifocals and a pair of prescription Sunglasses (may or may not have Bifocals this time around with these). Out of pocket, that’s around $1200.

          • RobertCHastings

            Got you beat by four years, ha, ha. I like my Transitions, they work great with my bifocals, although I also bought a nice pair of prescription sunglasses for driving, and you are right, they ain’t cheap, although Medicare pays for half the eye exam. My teeth are loaded with fillings, so I should have had something done a long time ago. Root canals and crowns are expensive and no fun at all. Both eye and dental insurance are available, but they really aren’t that cheap. I don’t know if Obamacare is going to deal with those issues or not. It should since almost everyone our age or older needs one or the other or both.

          • Michael Kollmorgen

            Best advise, get them all yanked out as soon as possible. I had them all taken out 20 years ago.

            Honestly, I don’t miss them. I eat Steak with just the upper plates. I haven’t even used the bottoms for many years. Take good care of the plates and they’ll last you for years. My upper is so good, I don’t even use anything to keep them up. That’s because I did most of the final fitting myself, you know filing, sanding where it caused a little pain. Once it’s up, it’s UP. You’ll now where to this or that with it. Just don’t overdue it and you’ll be just fine. And, DON’T use those 24 hour services either. Let your gums really heal for a few weeks. Then go get plates.

            The only thing I can’t eat are Nuts. OH well:)

          • RobertCHastings

            I love nuts, especially macadamias, walnuts, and cashews. With the dental work I have had done, the harder nuts, like almonds, are a problem. I most likely will eventually follow your lead and have them all removed.

    • idamag

      And Germany is coming out the recession and loaned Greece (whose austerity program failed) money.

    • Michael Kollmorgen

      I wouldn’t put a Vegas Bet on that.

  • bikejedi

    This is a terrible Bill . When the Dems wrote it they didn’t want to be perceived as raising taxes in a bad economy . Because of that they made the revenue factor of it based on taking money away from producers who work for a living and redistributing it to their welfare voters as a benefit . For the Companies that employ these people there are several options none of them good . A Company can choose to insure their employees for approx. 10 to 20 K …or they can choose to opt out and take a hit against their Companies taxes ( that would be a max of 3 K ). Which option would you take ? Since almost all Companies will opt out that means the individual will have to buy insurance if they can afford it , or pay a tax penalty to insure that their money is redistributed to Obama’s welfare voters . These people will have less disposable income either way .Companies with say , 55 employees , will can 6 of them to get under 50 so they wont have to comply with ObamaTAX . Those people will no longer be tax payers or consumers . Most Companies will no longer hire full time employees as if they are part timers they wont have to cover them . These people will not be covered and wont be able to afford coverage but they will work just to see their money redistributed to Dem welfare voters . These people will also make less money and pay less taxes. None of these things are any good . People will get fed up when they are working and not covered while they pay for the welfare voters and Illegal Aliens to be covered . They will demand a change and single payer will be born . That was the objective all along . We will move to a Socialist Society . No Socialist Nation has ever been a success

    • latebloomingrandma

      I think companies that have to compete to get the best and the brightest will still offer a good benefits package that will include healthcare. But I also think that eventually the US will get to single payer. Universal healthcare does not a “socialist” nation make.

    • charleo1

      Man, have you got a lot to un-llearn. First of all, Healthcare Reform
      is not a wealth redistribution tool. And, the vast majority of companies
      with 50, or more employees, already have a company health plan.
      But, since we can assume they are not hiring employees they don’t
      need. If they have 57 employees, they are not going to fire 8, just to
      get around the healthcare rules. Not the world, nor the rules of buss-
      iness principals, and practice, will revolve around employee health-
      care. You claim to know, that employers will only hire part timers,
      so they won’t need to provide healthcare. You may be interested
      to know, that although none of the new rules would effect the Nation’s
      largest employer, Wal-Mart. They already offer health plans to full
      time workers. But, their pay is so lousy, many of the full time,
      employees cannot afford the premiums, or the co-pays, if they
      were to go to the doctor. What Wal-Mart is doing, is hiring part time
      help. And instructing their minimum wage workers on how to apply
      for food stamps, and Medicaid. So, let’s correctly identify the
      moochers here, riding the system, for fun, and profit. As far as this
      old, Socialism, vs. Capitalism, argument. The U.S. is the last
      remaining Country in the world, that has in-door toilets, and
      doesn’t have a National healthcare plan, that covers everyone.
      so to say, the United States, with a larger economy, and more wealth
      than any Country in the world. To have 50/60 million of it’s people,
      uninsured, and no other way to access the healthcare system, but
      through the emergency room, Is not acceptable.

      • bikejedi

        Do you read the Wall Street Journal or Investors Business Daily or do you just get all your info from the memo and MSNBC ? Businesses have already been putting these types of plans into effect . More will do so when the TAX law touches them in 2014 . While we can agree that the current system is broke this one will only redistribute the wealth of producers to non producers to give them a benefit those people will think is free . The producers meanwhile will be losing their coverage and be left in a state ( cut to part time or laid off ) where they can’t afford their own . The end result will be non producers with a benefit paid for by producers who will not have any coverage ( wealth redistribution for the purpose of buying supporters on the backs of workers who never supported this man or plan ) . The producers will see this as unfair and demand the Govt do something . Single Payer will then be born . This Bill is so poorly designed we can only assume that it was solely designed to fail and by doing so create what the Dems didn’t have the sacks to do in the first place . Killary’s plan years ago was far better then this . By the way this bill was designed to cover approx. 17 million uninsured not the 50 to 60 million you cite . It also is out of money already with the CBO and every Insurance company projecting insurance costs to rise up to 400% . What is affordable about that . In most states Walmart pays above the minimum wage so that doesn’t hold water . Would you prefer Walmart just pay them whatever YOU think is fair ? latebloomer doesn’t think single payer will result in a Socialist nation but it has worked that way in every of the European models that have tried it . I also note she didn’t dispute that NO Socialist Nation has ever prospered so points for that . Next year you will see a lot of what I’m talking about take place and you will all blame it on those ” evil corporations” and their greed rather then putting blame where it deserves to be . That would be at the foot of the Dems that wrote the bill . Now a more fair and balanced way of doing a Health care bill would of been to institute a 1% Nation wide sales tax . that way even the welfare people would pay into it . Since Obama’s only skill set seems to be creating more and more people dependent on Govt this would seem to be the best way to do it . It also wouldn’t lower the pool of tax payers and wouldn’t affect their consuming ability . Of course the Dems didn’t want to do it that way so instead they are redistributing the wealth of producers to non producers . What I said is right and anyone that has a little common sense and can put aside their party loyalty can see that it makes perfect logical sense . If you don’t see it mow you can call me Nostradamus next year . If you have worked in Corporate America and you were from Chicago this is easy to see . I am fit both of those criteria . By the way it is refreshing to have a chat with the left that is civil . Thank You .

        • Lynda Groom

          The wealth of the nation is at or near record highs and you are saying the nation is out of money? Seriously. The problem is not the wealth, but the distribution. The recovery from the great recession has been uneven to say the least. The wealth in the top 7% has increased 28%, while for the bottom 93% it is down 4%. The overall size of the wealth of the nation is well above $54 trillion, so claiming the country is out of money is dishonest.
          Indeed there are portions of the law that need to be improved, changed or replaced. You should direct you anger at those in Congress who will not come to the table and work on those changes. All big changes in the institutional programs have gone through adjustments and change. This law is no different, but it sure is being handled differently.

          • Yappy2

            Well said!

          • Fern Woodfork

            You Right, But When You Have Wealthy Congressmen And Senators Holding Offices Distribution Will Never Happen!! It’s A Conflict Of Interest!! They Are Not Working For We The People They Are Working For Themselves!!! 🙁

          • bikejedi

            Income disparity is growing because Obama has made record numbers of Americans poor and dependent on Govt . the GDP is growing at the slowest rate in history . Learn to interpet while using real math and common sense

        • Lynda Groom

          For your information here is some info regarding health care insurance rate increases from California Blue Shield. The average premium increase for this organization–taking into account subsidies–was just 13%, of which 8 to 9% was the usual year-to-year increase in health care costs. The hyperbole of 400% increase seem a little bit of fantasy.

    • Yappy2

      So maybe the bill will have to be tweeked so that the Companys that are already making big profits will have to pay a bigger fine. Maybe they should show some loyalty to a country that has afforded them great profits instead of hiding money offshore.

    • idamag

      England, Germany, France, and the Scandanavian countries all have social programs, Many more than we ever had. The most socialistic country in the world is Norway. Norway has the highest standard of living in all the industrialized nations. People on welfare, in Norway, is .006%. It is the “we” thinking instead of the “me” thinking that makes a country great.

      • InsideEye

        They have no welfare, it is a homogenouse society, except for a few unwanted. Also the USA pays for a lot if indigent, baby makers that skew
        the staistics, and say our pre natal care and survival rate is poor thanother countries…etc etc. this is a large number.Current Private system allowed us to make the advances that make us men, with prostates and Heart problems ,easier to make it through to the next crisis. Also women can be screened earlier and less invasively. Life expectancy is better amongst us agressive Americans.

    • Lisztman

      bikejedi — You’ve swallowed the GOP line, hook, and sinker. First and foremost — WTH are you talking about — “welfare voters”? Read the comments above. Talk to someone with diabetes, or MS, or a cancer survivor — about their prospects for obtaining health insurance. Talk to all those meganumbers of WalMart employees — whom WalMart hires at part-time positions specifically so they won’t have to provide any benefits at all (health, vacation, sick days, 401K, and the like). You have NO CLUE.

  • The American way of doing healthcare is ass backwards. Businesses are right to moan about having to provide care its a massive expense. Much better it the government pays hospitals, doctors, drug companies directly at a reasonable price for everyone.

    That said ACA is better than sod those who can’t pay or have a pre-existing condition like being female

    • angelsinca

      We all seem to share the same pre-existing condition of being human. At least not too many females suffer from prostate cancer or erectile dyfunction. Preferred free care for female-only conditions, without the same freee care for male-only concerns, sounds like gender-based discrimination.

  • emadis41

    Obamacare, while better than no healthcare, is short of goal
    in the largest economy in the world. We should have equal opportunity coverage
    for all US citizens, all other types of health insurance should be combined
    into one “Universal Health Insurance” that covers the president, the senator,
    the US representative as the average citizen who pays their salaries. Each
    should pay a percentage of his/her total income for this coverage and offered
    the same services if sickness strikes. I believe if this is applied it will
    reduce our GDP % that being spent on healthcare, which is the highest anywhere while
    showing dismal results. It is enough to
    say that the US ranks # 37 while it is # 1 in GDP spending. In comparison Oman ranks
    #8 while ranks #68 in GDP spending on healthcare.

  • docb

    Hmmm …could it be the way the question was ask..as Obama HC? as in a PUSH poll!….As individual components of the bill are ask about pro-con..the numbers do not reflect the same…Not much credence to this poll…

  • insbuysrv

    When Obama compaigned for the Democratic presidentioal nomination he said his medical proposal woudn’t require a mandate. I believe the Afordable Care Act would have been more favorably received if instead of the mandate with a fine (tax) for failure to comply there would be no requirement to buy health insurance. However if you fail to maintain continuous coverage there would be a waiting period for preexisting conditions. This would be more likely to compel people to buy and keep health insurance than a $95 fine for not buying coverage.

    • idamag

      $800 out of every $2500 you spend in medical costs goes to pay for those who don’t or won’t get insurance. Automobile insurance in mandatory to protect the public, shouldn’t health insurance also be?

      • insbuysrv

        My point is that the mandate has no teeth. If someone chooses not to buy health insurance they will be fined (taxed) $95. Then later if they find that they have a need they can buy a policy with no waiting period for preexisting conditions. Why would anyone feel compelled to buy a policy when they’re healthy. It is the healthy population that we need to bring into the risk pool for the system to work. A waiting period for preexisting conditions if you don’t maintain coverage is a much greater inducement to participate than the threat of a $95 fine or tax.

  • Larry shank

    Poll: Majority Still Opposes Obamacare
    Well then there are a whole bunch of some real stupid Mother F#$ker.
    In Nov. this guy could of been put out to pasture, but now they do not want Government Run H/C, yet re-elect this Train Wreck. Too bad folks live with it.

    • idamag

      No, you want big business to run healthcare. When healthcare becomes the bottom line on the stock market page of the Wall Street Journal, it is not healthcare, but profit driven.

  • elw

    This a strange way to interpret polling results, especially with the clear split of why the
    people opposed it. It doesn’t mean much the way it is written up in this article. If 16% just thought it was not liberal enough as the article suggests, hardly seems that they are running around crying for its repeal or a good enough reason for Conservatives to start jumping up and down in glee. Poll results are a lot more complicated that just the numbers and those numbers can be manipulated to mean just about anything.

  • Lisztman

    The biggest problem with the ACA: It’s such a large package that I’m willing to bet that fewer than 5% of this Nation’s citizens actually know what’s in it.

    What they hear is predominately naysaying and doomsday predictions from the GOP. The GOP doesn’t like it because it forces the Insurance industry to pick up the ball and insure Americans, as a whole, rather than cherry-picking to maximize profits. The alternative to levying this burden upon Big Insurance was a single-payer system, which would push much of Big Insurance out of the health market — which was even more intolerable. Nonetheless, the GOP will continue to beat the drum that the ACA will drive premiums through the ceiling, and force small businesses out of business, in the hope of gaining traction with the electorate.

    I believe that, as the program (about which I probably know more than the average citizen, which isn’t saying a lot — and, no, I don’t know all of what’s in it) continues to unfold over the next year or two, its actual benefits will become apparent to Joe and Jane Citizen. Note to everyone: it hasn’t caused the demise of affordable health care in Massachusetts.

    • idamag

      People don’t. You should hear some of the stuff I have heard they think the ACA is.

  • Michael Kollmorgen

    Sure!

    The Majority of people don’t approve of it. Just wait until they need it. They’ll be doing all they can to get it.

  • holyreality

    Ignorance is Strength.

    Why should I trust some “socialist scheme to take my freedom” to give me cheaper healthcare?

    This appears to be the main reason people state when asked why they oppose Obamacare.

  • jetfuel4

    Oh BTW….the California success story….you might want to read http://www.calhealth.net/California_health_insurance_Rate_Shock.html
    you think Casinos’ are rigged….insurance industry is a lot better than them….lib’s….hahahahahahahaha

  • Nooo….the majority does not oppose it they demand it.
    Healthcare INSURANCE for all Americans.