Smart. Sharp. Funny. Fearless.
Monday, March 25, 2019

WASHINGTON — Over the long run, the most important impact of an election is not on the winning party but on the loser. Winners feel confirmed in staying the course they’re on. Losing parties — or, at least, the ones intent on winning again someday — are moved to figure out what they did wrong and how they must change.

After losing throughout the 1930s and ’40s, Republicans finally came to terms with the New Deal and elected Dwight Eisenhower in 1952. Democrats lost three elections in the 1980s and did a lot of rethinking inspired by Bill Clinton, who won the White House in 1992. In Britain, the Labor Party learned a great deal during its exile from power in the Margaret Thatcher years. The same thing happened to the Conservatives during Tony Blair’s long run.

The American conservative movement and the Republican Party it controls were stunned by President Obama’s victory last month. The depth of their astonishment was itself a sign of how much they misunderstood the country they proposed to lead. Yet the shock has pushed many conservatives to think at least mildly heretical thoughts.

In particular, some are realizing that the Tea Party surge of 2010 was akin to an amphetamine rush — it produced instant gratification but left the conservative brand tarnished by extremism on both social and economic issues. Within two years, the Tea Party high gave way to a crash.

It’s true that the early signs of conservative evolution are superficial and largely rhetorical. The right wing’s supporters are already threatening primaries against House and Senate Republicans who offer even a hint of apostasy when it comes to raising taxes in any budget deal. Many Republicans still fear challenges from their right far more than defeat in an election by a Democrat.

Nonetheless, rhetorical shifts often presage substantive changes because they are the first and easiest steps along the revisionist path. And on Tuesday, three prominent Republicans took the plunge.

At a dinner in honor of the late Jack Kemp — a big tax-cutter who also had a big heart — Rep. Paul Ryan and Sen. Marco Rubio both worked hard to back the party away from the damage done by Mitt Romney’s comments on the supposedly dependent 47 percent and the broader hostility shown toward government by a conservatism inflected by Tea Party thinking.

Ryan spoke gracious words about Romney, the man who made him his vice presidential running mate. But the implicit criticism of Romney’s theory was unmistakable. Kemp, Ryan said, “hated the idea that any part of America could be written off.” Republicans, Ryan said, must “carry on and keep fighting for the American Idea — the belief that everyone should have the opportunity to rise, to escape from poverty.” He also said: “Government must act for the common good, while leaving private groups free to do the work that only they can do.” 

  • Share this on Google+0
  • Share this on Linkedin0
  • Share this on Reddit11
  • Print this page
  • 157

137 responses to “The Conservative Learning Curve”

  1. Lynda says:

    There is no learning curve. It’s a straight line and that is the big problem. They can’t more from their ideological path no matter the preponderance of evidence.

    • I wish you guys would open your eyes and mind, the Rep are corrupt and so are some Dem. Keep raising the Debt and helping the rich stay rich, Why ? You are only hurting yourself what’s wrong with you folks. I Feel its fear and the only reason is its Black President who trying to fix a problem that has been going on for over fifty years. When it come down to it all Americans are hurting, poor folks and homeless, jobless need help the rich folk’s are and always will be just greedy. Willing to start wars and keeping their noses and hand in American’s packet’s. To pay the bill for them. Rep need to stop being hateful you lost do the right thing.

      • Despite what you may think, Obama has been working on the debt stuff for the past 4 years: he’s actually decreased the deficit faster over the past 4 years than any president since WWII; and he’s done it for 3 straight years for the 1st time since Truman did it back in the 1950s. He’s actually reduced the deficit by more than 200 billion each of the past two years; partly by reducing government by over 550,000 folks including military cutbacks. His administration has also focused on finding and prosecuting fraud perpetrators in the defense and healthcare sectors and has recovered more fraudulently charged defense related work and medicare/medicaid charges than all 5 previous presidents combined. And along the way he’s done everything his restricted presidential powers have allowed him to do to rework the immigration situation and has deported more illegals than any other president since Eisenhower. It’s my feeling that he’s done more for America than any president since FDR; and I’m old enough to remember all othe them starting with Truman. And just for the record, looking back, it’s my feeling that one of the worst (aside from GWB) was Ronald Reagan. It was Reagan that signed the legislaltion which allows anyone to run into a hospital ER for whatever reason to get treatment; even if it’s a non emergency that could be treated in a doctor’s office. This has allowed millions who could well afford insurance to go without it; knowing full well that when the run to the ER it’s you, me and millions of other taxpayers paying for them. This one law is a key reason that healthcare in America is the most expensive in the world. There should have been more controls built into this law to prevent abuse. And it was Reagan that started the creation of scam presidential budgets, which did not include pet projects he and the following two Republican presidents didn’t want tracked easily. It’s the practice that has allowed GOP presidents to spend like drunken sailors which has driven our deficits to unbelievable highs, especially by GWB whose responsible in my mind for almost 10 trillion in deficit spending himself; with his unfunded tax cuts; unfunded wars; unfunded legislation like the Medicare drug benefit giveaway to the drug industry, no child left behind nonsense and more. which were all contributing to the deficit well into Obama’s terms; and even until today and which are causing the turmoil in Washington today over the deficits.

        • Ed says:

          Let us not forget that “King” Reagan also abolished rules on what may be transmitted on the airwaves, giving us Rush and Beck. And then began the deregulation of the banks. His “cadillac” and “the woman with 10 social security cards making 1.2 million a year” started the attacks on the poor. His first year he reduced everyone’s taxes. The following seven years he approved 11 tax increases aimed almost solely on the middle class and the poor.

          • William says:

            That’s why he is still a GOP hero !

          • THS_Warrior says:

            What has always troubled me about Ronald Reagan the most is that he was a Screen Actors Guild spokeman and president. i.e., a flaming liberal union organizer all of his professional life as a B-Grade Hollywood actor.

            Reagan was a liberal until anti-American GOP fatcats bought his loyalty, made him change his party affiliation and then made him governor of California so they could run him for the presidency and steal as much money as they could.

            And this rouse worked because the sheeple of America will believe anything coming out of the mouths of most Hollywood actors.

          • ralphkr says:

            I had the misfortune to live in California was Reagan Governor. Our wonder boy preaching cut taxes & have booming prosperity installed withholding taxes which allowed him to raise rates without anyone noticing. My income went up by $300 and my state taxes went up $450. Withholding taxes is a Godsend for politicians. Without withholding there would be screaming & rending clothing when tax day rolled around and you had to come up with a quick $10K but with withholding you get a REFUND so you did not pay any taxes at all. I am constantly amazed that seemingly educated people will say they did not pay any taxes because they got a refund while ignoring the fact that that refund was just miniscule portion of the tax money that had been withheld..

        • RobertCHastings says:

          Beautiful, excellent, and all absolutely historically true! You must be a true Democrat, for even an impersonator could not have said it better. Looks like someone has actually been listening.

        • citizenmb says:

          I love your comment; full of facts and figures to back your opinion. Too many Americans (aka “low information voters”) cast thier vote based on “would you like to have a beer with xyz”–and Reagan, excellent actor that he was, played the nice guy to the hilt.

          • THS_Warrior says:

            None of my friends ever liked the aging Holloywood actor Ronald Reagan when he hosted “Death Valley Days” because he was pitiful.

            When Reagan, once a Democrat and president of the Screen Actors Guild (the actors union) sold his progressive soul to the wealthy GOP and became a Republican just so he could be elected governor of California we all called him a California joke and laughed at him when he bumped his head and stuttered over hard words like “tax.”

            Can you imagine how we felt when the ancient California joke named Reagan turned out to be president of the United States? And then was re-elected?

  2. nobsartist says:

    First, you have to get out of kindergarten.

  3. Hopefully the GOP will persist on their insistence to push their far right agenda for years to come. We must get control of the House in 2014, and the easiest way to achieve that goal is to have people like Rubio, Cruz and Ryan advancing the policy proposals that were so soundly rejected by a plurality of Americans on 11/6. Keep up the good work guys!

    • You Got That Right My Friend!! The GOP Has Planted Their Lips On The Tea Party Asses For So Long Now That We Can’t Tell Where One Party Ends And The Other Begins!!! GOP/Tea Party = The American Taliban!!!

      • Melvin Chatman says:

        “FERN” in 2016!!

      • ChristianMartin says:

        I’ve lost family and friends to the Taliban and the Mouja-hadeen (not to mention the ones that have come back handicapped and disfigured). I am aggravated by the Repulicons (think Decepticons) as well but I dont remember them (or the Libturds for that matter) ever planting bombs or ambushing and killing Americans. Most people are waking up to the fake, shirt-sleeve conservatism in this country. Let’s keep our eye on the ball and keep it about the issues so we don’t seem like shallow non-thinkers. If you had skin in the game you may not be as quick to throw around accusations of terrorism.

        • tabster says:

          So, you don’t remember the Oklahoma City bombing? Or the Unabomber?We have had acts of terrorism committed here in this country by American citizens.

          What Fern is referring to of course is that like the Taliban, the Tea Party is very fascist in its perspective. There’s no tolerance of diversity, different beliefs, or different perspectives. For a group that constantly shouts about “liberty” and “freedom” they sure are hellbent on limiting the freedom and liberty of anyone who disagrees with them.


        • You Can’t Wake Up People Who Only Pretending To Be Sleep~ Navajo Proverb!!!

        • If George W. Bush killing over 3000 Americans with his fake war in Iraq and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis as well is not equivalent to the Taliban, then tell me what is? Through their lies, deceptions, and desire for war-profiteering, Bush, Cheney, Rice, and the Republican establishment engineered a propaganda machine so large that they were able to convince Congress that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction when, in actuality, Hussein had no such weapons. The Taliban and Al Qaeda together have not killed as many people as Bush and Company.

          • ChristianMartin says:

            If you actually bothered to read up on international news you would realize the staggering # of deaths the Taliban and Al-Quaida are responsible for. But I do agree that we should have never been in Iraq. The reasons that brought us there were false,self-serving,and part of the Military Industrial Complex. Your summation of the Cheney/Bush regime is very accurate…..except for the terrorism part. Terrorism happened in New York and Oklahoma. Bush/Cheney and many of their cronies should be charged with war crimes and international espionage in my opinion. Our Lord and Savior Obama could pull us out of all of our “wars” if he wanted to. He could end the fake “drug war” here in the U.S. that has killed thousands of innocent people over the course of it’s life not to mention the hundreds of thousands of lives it has ruined. But no, it’s just business as usual and the dithering,history ignorant masses continue to believe there is some major difference between the two parties. Rand Paul had a good idea the other day. Let’s put the alleged difference in parties to the test. Let’s give the Narcisstocrats any and everything they want over the next 4 years and see where we end up. One of the smartest things to come out of his mouth I’ve ever heard. Who do we blame then when it fails? Bush? Our Lord and Savior? The Republiturds? The Boogey Man? Responsibility for our own actions and bad decisions is something we absolutely suck at. It’s nearly as bad as our party blindness.

          • THS_Warrior says:

            Perhaps if more intelligent Americans like poster ChristianMartin would stop all the blaming and finger-pointing and run for high public office themselves they would be able to fix the problem identified by poster ChristianMartin: the human inability to admit error.

          • THS_Warrior says:

            While God sees all of them the same, IMO there is a vast difference between humans who kill other humans for money as opposed to those who kill others for idealogy.

            America was founded by humans who killed their brothers in the name of ideaology.
            Americans are now being killed (sacrificed) by their brothers in the name of more profits.

    • Annemb says:

      Perhaps the Repubs will take back their soul which they sold to the tea partiers. And after that, they’ll (hopefully) learn.

        • Annemb says:

          Good question. That is working on an assumption.

        • The sould they sold to the House of Saud when they declared Saudi Arabia, the homeland of most of the Wahhabist terrorists that attacked us on 9/11, and their hero, a Most Favored Nation for trade purposes. They made Judas look like a chomp when they sold out the memory of 3,000 innocent victims in exchange for lucrative oil contracts. No wonder they are trying to establish a parallel between their nefarious deeds and the unfortunate attack against our consulate in Benghazi. Unfortunately for them, only those suffering from an acute case of amnesia and those on the take will buy what this discredited bunch of opportunists are selling.

    • S-3 says:

      That’s sadly the only cure for the madness turning America into a fascist, Neo-Nazi, Faux-Christian theocracy…

      Either that, or violent revolt and anarchy on those responsible for it, as things are.

  4. No matter how Ryan and Rubio try to mask their true intent, there’s still Boehner, Cantor, McConnell–and Ryan–in Congress who continue their obstructionist activities. They can change the rhetoric, but by their deeds shall we know them.

  5. Grunge45 says:

    All rhetoric. The real purpose of the GOP is to transfer wealth from the middle to the wealthy. And, if they can, use government to regulate personal living.

  6. Don’t Believe A Word They Say!!! Show Me Then I Will Believe!!! Talk Is Cheap!! Anybody Can Open Their Mouth And Say Anything, Show Me And The American People You Learn Something!! In Other Words Your Talking Is Just BULLSHIT!!!

  7. sumner41 says:


    • Lisztman says:

      Adding to your thought on “Charlie” — the Republican Party has become so obsessed with its “principles” that we (Democrats, Liberals, Independents, the President…) can’t possibly carry on an intelligent debate with them. Why should we be able to? They can’t even tolerate independent thought, or debate, within their own circle.

      Anyone who doesn’t “toe the line” (see what’s happening to certain House Republicans, young’uns all, who didn’t vote Party line — loss of committee placements, etc.) is cast aside. If the GOP doesn’t GROW UP and learn how to truly negotiate, or compromise (either of which means “take a little, GIVE a little”) — they’re going to negotiate themselves into nothingness. Consistent and increasing losses in Washington for years to come.

      And they haven’t gotten the message of last month — they lost. The American majority voiced disagreement with their “principles”. Which means they should be “taking a little, and GIVING a LOT.”

      • I certainly hope you’re right about them negotiating themselves into nothingness. That would surely be great to see. Then America could really turn itself back into a great nation; get all the obstructionists out of the way!!!

      • CPANewYork says:

        If I were a young Republican in congress and was deprived of a committee appointment because of my desire to compromise with the Democrats, I’d change party allegiance. Joe Lieberman did it, although for the wrong reason, but he did it and got away with it.

        • William says:

          The Republicans that were removed were even more radical than Ryan, they even voted no on the Ryan budget because it didn’t take enough from the middle class and the poor so they could reward the Rich even more. Also the GOP idea of making cuts to the Military is to cut pay by 40%. They are also the first to cut benefits to Vets.

          • THS_Warrior says:

            The main reason that several tea party Republicans are now getting dumped on by the incoming GOP leaders in the House is because they have stubbornly refused to support any legislation that adds one more penny to the national debt, ever, for any reason whatsoever.

            Example: Even if the rest of the elected members in the legislature see some long-term value in getting rid of some very costly, rapidly growing federal programs and replacing them with other needed and much less-expensive programs that will not grow quite as fast, that is still NOT good enough for the anti-debt tea party crowd.

            I thought Grover Norquist’s rediculous pledge forbidding legislators from voting for any legislation increasing taxes for any reason, or supporting legislation creating any new tax for any reason, including paying for emergencies and wars, was just an impossible dream that would fade away over time. Not.

            The hard-core anti-deficit tea party clowns actually wanted to shut America down completely rather than vote to borrow even one more penny from anyone, for any reason; — even at a time when Treasury interest rates are at their all-time lows!

            No wonder the new GOP leaders are removing them from important committees where they can do more damage to America (and destroy the GOP) during the next two years.

      • William says:

        I hope you are right.

  8. BillFromPA says:

    The only thing the GOP is going to change is the packaging for their stale ideas. The already have The Answer, cut taxes and entitlements, regardless of what the question is. Their problem is that a healthy majority rejects this. The GOP has no interest whatever in serving the needs of the middle class, but somehow they have to pretend to care while, under the radar, they push benefits to the 1%.

  9. AMADAL says:

    Having a few token coconuts and oreos is not the way to get minority support. It takes fundamental changes in policy and attitude to gain support from anyone other than rich old white men. To think the Repukelicans can’t seem to learn that. And they think they are the smart ones that know best, instead of listening to the electorate.

    • William says:

      I don’t think you have to be white, you just have to be RICH.

      • AMADAL says:

        You really don’t have to be rich–there are a lot of rich Democrats. but you have to be prejudiced–and that usually means white. If you looked at the participants at the Repukelican National Convention, you saw very few non whites.

  10. Progressive Patriot says:

    Don’t tell me. Show me.

  11. A snake will always try various ways to have what it is after. Right? In this case, it is even worse because you have one human being trying desparately to devour another. How stupid is that? We have difficulty enough trying to controle our own destanies, why on earth would anyone want to try and controle the destany of others. The more that my brother( fellow American ) can become, the greater we all will become. “We are one people, one nation!”

  12. wildwoodBen says:

    Yes, pushing the right agenda is the best way to insure it never regains power again. I agree. Poison can develope a tolerance profile but it is still toxic to a lot of people.

  13. wildwoodBen says:

    Yes, pushing the toxic conservative message will help bury it where it belongs. I agree. Poison can develope a tolerance profile but still be deadly to people. The more exposure it receives, conservatism might just recede into the cave from whence it comes. Light can destroy lots of harmful thinking.

  14. Happy2bback says:

    You are assuming that the American public will stay informed as to how these incompetent people voted past and future till 2014. The commercials that are totally false the right wing media will still be something that we will have to keep vigilant on. Think of how much good the money spent on this election could of done.

  15. You cannot expect people full of themselves and their self-importance to actually learn anything. I’ve experienced personally their sneers and smirks – they know it all. They WILL however, SAY anything if they think it will get them votes. Lying is their forte’. And whoever thought Rubio had anything to offer? Certainly not me. He’s a kid. Totally unlearned in anything. Now, there is one guy who was a repug at one time who does have the ability to think, and that’s Charlie Crist. But, the repugs shunned him because he did a normal thing – our president greets people with a “sort” of hug, and Charlie returned the favor. Only a dumbbell would have done differently. But, we are talking about dumbbells aren’t we.

  16. howa4x says:

    The tealiban will be imbeded in the GOP for a long time to come. They are funded by the Koch bros and since they both have 31 billion that’s very deep pockets. The Koch’s want to see an America of serfs, people who will work below the minimum wage and be thankful for it. They also want to be free from enviornmental regulations as they participate in the new gold rush of natural gas exploration and fracking which contaminates local water supplys, if done on the cheap. They have found in the tea party a group willing to fall on the sword and vote against their own intrests and that of their children. Perfect! So as some republicans scramble toward the center where compromise is the currency, the well funded tealiban is digging in. Their alliance with the evengelical pretend Christians, gives them 2 of the 3 legs of the GOP. This can be seen when Marco Rubio speaking to evengelicals in Iowa had to say he thinks the world is 6000 yrs old. It doesn’t matter if he makes pro immigration statements in DC, if he is going to make anti science statements in Iowa, since this is the trap Romney fell into. Now in the world of the internet those statements will be preserved forever, and replayed over and over again if he decides to run. The GOP must make a decision soon since the election taught them a lesson.This is the question they must answer: Can they win carrying the baggage of the Tealiban and the evangelicals? Who goes over the side from the lifeboat? Clearly the majority of Americans were turned off by the slash and burn budget tactics of the tealiban and the turn back the clock sentiments of the evangelicals on women’s issues and anti gay rethoric. The tea parties support for no tax increases on the rich while wanting to only cut entitlements is holding the republican middle back from making a deal. The public knows this and will blame the republicans if we go over the mythical cliff. We started to see the begining of the GOP civil war when Boehner dissmissed 4 tea party congressmen from key posts on budget committes. Now let’s see how the tealiban strikes back.
    The saga continues

    • CPANewYork says:

      If they keep losing elections, it won’t matter by whom they’re funded. The Krotch brothers, Norman Adelson and their ilk will be stuck preaching their lies to their own choir.

  17. The fact that they lost House seats should suffice to indicate that even their creative gerrymandering should not be counted on to assure their majority.

    Of course, this is the party that doesn’t believe in reality. John Boehner is out there right now recycling Mitt Romney’s campaign promises as if the people voted for them.

    The Wealthy and Corporations are riding high with record profits and income.
    The Middle Class wages are stagnant.
    In 2010, 93% of income gain went to top 1% of families.
    Corp made record 1700B profit in third quarter of this year.
    Wages are at all time low or 43% of GDP.
    We rank in OECD as #1 with 44 percent of workers earning low wages.
    We rank #2 as least tax on corporations.
    We rank # 3 as least taxed as percent of GDP.
    We rank #4 on Inequality.
    Many experts recommend Cap Gains and Dividends be taxed as ordinary income at 28%.
    In 2009—All Tax returns were taxed at 11.06% Tax Rate. Top 10% got 34% of income taxed at 18%;
    25% got 66% of income and taxed at 15%; 50% got 87% and taxed at 12.5%.
    Republicans are very very wrong to fight tax increases on wealth. It is almost insane. The problems are obvious but they choose to ignore them for political gain at expense of hurting economic growth that comes from demand by the under paid middle class.

  19. Alogon says:

    So, after eight years with a Republican in the White House, a Democrat was elected and then re-elected. Big deal. Isn’t it normal for a sitting President to be re-elected? The Republicans still control the House of Representatives and numerous state houses and governors’ offices. Voter ID laws, gerrymandering, and various shenanigans with polling places will continue to ensure that many of the wrong people either do not vote or their votes will not count for much.

    If they don’t become more appealing to people of color, their long-term prospects indeed look dim– but how can they possibly do that without betraying their base of angry, scared white men? I predict that the changes will be only cosmetic for awhile. They’ve learned to “get the ferrets in” to debug a smoke-filled room before a candidate reveals his true colors. Without that incident Romney would probably have fooled enough people to have been elected.

    • Stella53 says:

      I think Romney would have still lost without the infamous 47% comment. The “self-deportation” comment Romney made during the primaries is the main thing I think Latinos remembered most. Plus all the crazy talk about rape from some of the crazy wing-nuts did him in as well. The threat to women’s health care, the demonization of gays and blacks, etc. I could go on and on. He would have still lost – maybe by a smaller margin.

  20. montanabill says:

    The far right extreme agenda: a balanced budget, lower debt, few regulations, lower taxes, higher employment, a bustling economy, a large and thriving middle class and fewer people at the poverty level with a strong defense to protect it all. Too far out!

    • jstsyn says:

      The far right extreme agenda: hasn’t worked yet.

    • johninPCFL says:

      The far right extreme agenda: a budget balanced on the poor and middle class, lower debt, more pollution, lower taxes on the wealthy, higher minimum-wage employment, a bustling economy, a large and thriving lower class and more people below the poverty level with a far higher payments to no-bid defense contractors. Too far out!

      • montanabill says:

        Since no one has proposed increasing taxes on the poor and middle class, how do you figure? Obamacare is creating the minimum wage employment by encouraging companies to use part-time employees to avoid impossible cost health coverage. The far right agenda absolutely doesn’t want people below the poverty level or a large lower class. Think about it. Why would they want more people on welfare or not paying taxes? Their goal is just the opposite. How do no-bid defense contracts compare to no-bid green energy investments? Shouldn’t have either one.

        • johninPCFL says:

          Tax policy isn’t the only way to drive people into poverty. Here are a few ideas from Lyin’ Ryan’s budget for 2013:

          “The “Path to Prosperity” would cut $2.4 trillion from Medicaid and other health care programs for people with low or moderate incomes, according to analysis from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.”

          “Under Ryan’s “Path to Prosperity,” senior citizens would have to pay as much as 68 percent of their health care coverage, up from 25 percent today, CBS News reports.”

          “A single mother of two working full time at the minimum wage would have her Child Tax Credit cut by more than $1,500, assuming she made $14,500 a year, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.”

          “Compared to the most recent White House budget proposal, Ryan’s budget spends 33 percent less on education, training, employment and social services, the Washington Post reports.”

          The GOP has long railed against SS, Medicare, minimum wage, etc. Their most fervent desire is to eliminate all of them and return wages to the 1940s levels. Not for CEOs of course, just for the folks actually making the stuff so the CEOs can still get their 15% per year salary increases. 90% of the wage increases in 2010 went to 1% of wage earners. For the GOP, that’s a perfect result.

          Let’s see: defense is $690B/yr. DOE green energy was $2B one-shot. I’m sure in your mind those two figures are identical. Everyone else recognizes the folly of that argument.

          • montanabill says:

            You just assumed that all of the DoD budget is spent on your no-bid, frivolous contracts.

            A single mother of two working full time at a minimum wage job would earn over $24,000/yr. So why are we ‘assuming’ $14,500? During the time that my daughter was a single mother, she was not getting any help from me or from Child Tax Credits. She is not a college grad, yet she was able to find a job that paid enough to support her and my grandson. A job she hated, but did it anyway.

            It appears you have a problem with people paying their own way and being responsible for themselves. The GOP is railing against the unsustainability of these programs. Far different than the left’s propaganda about ‘doing away with them’, which, by the way, will come naturally if they are left to continue as is.

          • johninPCFL says:

            It appears that you have a problem making assumption and then treating them as facts. Some facts:
            “Characteristics: Around 45% of single mothers have never married, around 55% are divorced, separated or widowed. Half have one child, 30% have two. About two fifths are White, one third Black, one quarter Hispanic. One quarter have a college degree, one sixth have not completed high school.
            Employment: At any one time, about two thirds of single mothers are also working outside the home, a slightly greater share than the share of married mothers who are also working outside the home. However, only two fifths of single mothers are employed full-time the entire year, and a quarter are jobless the entire year.
            Income: Half of single mother families have an annual income less than $25,000. Median income for single mother families is only one third the median for married couple families. Only one third of single mothers receive any child support, and the average amount these mothers receive is only about $300 a month.”

            My suspicion is that the $14.5k came from some facts, not a guess based on what they heard at the corner from somebody’s brother’s uncle’s friend of a friend of a friend, like you. It appears that your doughter is in the minority who secured year-round full time employment. Her live-in roommate took care of the children while she worked?

            I prefer that people run their own lives. I prefer that the government not post police in their bedrooms to monitor who they love, nor in their doctor’s offices, nor in their hospital rooms. I prefer people make their own decisions about who they trust for medical advice, not their insurance company, nor their employer. GOP legislatures in a dozen states have passed, and their GOP governors have signed, laws to do just these things in the last two years.

            I prefer that people stand on their own two feet, but I have room in my heart to help those who are going through hard times. How about this for the division: all of your tax dollars are going to pay for servicemen and women in Afghanistan, all of mine are going to fill your share to mothers, infants, and children in the USA?

          • montanabill says:

            I have to admit to not knowing the minimum wage. I improperly assumed that the hourly rate I pay part time manual labor was minimum. So the $14.5k was close to the national average.

            I did forget that there should have been a father or two paying child support, regardless of marriage. If not a marriage, then our mother had made a couple of bad decisions. A mother of two, divorced, should have at least child support and possibly alimony. A widowed mother should have had an insurance settlement.
            You relate tough situations, many brought about by bad decisions. But there are always options. I employ a young single mother (at my minimum) who does cleaning work. She has elected to spend her evenings going to diesel mechanic school. She has worked out child care with a group of mothers in a similar situation.

            I certainly agree with you that people should run their own lives. However, it is certainly not just the GOP who has invaded our rights to make our own decisions. Obamacare is the latest single biggest invader.

            I don’t want anyone’s tax dollars going to government welfare programs. There is not a single program that couldn’t be run with more care or more efficiently by a private sector group. Almost every one of the initially good intentioned, government hand-up programs has been subverted to hand-out. Hand-out means servitude.

            FYI: My daughter and her former husband took care of day care.

          • johninPCFL says:

            The latest incoherent screaming from the right is about poor people with cell phones. Life insurance is a luxury, but by your argument, they should buy it instead of a way to communicate with possible employers. Seems odd.

            My daughter is also a new single mother of two. Her ex has never paid a dime of child support, even though it’s state mandated. I’m OK with the intrusion into his life. You?

            Is the ER the method of choice to control hypertension? No. You can’t get a prescription there, nor can you fill it. But they will treat your heart attack for free, and the rest of us pick up the $100k tab. Can you get your insulin to treat your diabetes there? No. But you can get your foot amputated for free and the rest of us pick up the $75k tab. Can you get your cancer treatments for free? The primary surgery, sure, and the rest of us pick up the $150k tab. Of course, you don’t get your follow-on chemo, then the cancer recurs, and then we get to buy another round or two of surgeries until you finally die.

            Some private welfare programs are run more efficiently than a government program, but certainly not all. Amongst those who spend most of their money on themselves are Point of View Ministries and Children’s Charity Fund. And who could forget the recently exposed Navy Vets? Well named shams, huh? 10% government inefficiency versus 100% theft. I guess in your mind that’s just fine.

          • THS_Warrior says:

            Don’t know about the rest of you WT readers but I’m thinking that poster johninPC has one heck of a lot more common sense than most of the conservative right wingers I’ve been seeing on these WT threads screaming and yelling about things they have not ever bothered to think all the way through.

          • montanabill says:

            I did not consider life insurance a luxury when I was a newly minted father with two young children. Term insurance seemed like a reasonable expense to insure that my wife and the kids had a chance if something happened to me.

            Seems to me that cell phones are the most expensive way to communicate. How about a good old fashioned simple house phone?

            Yes, I’m ok with state intrusion into the life of a father who has been court ordered to pay child support. What on earth would make you think otherwise?

            Most private charities and church support groups are run far more efficiently than any government program. Sure there are shams, but you are wildly underestimating government inefficiency. It is more like 50% than 10%. How’s FEMA doing on Staten Island?

          • johninPCFL says:

            OK, so you bought life insurance instead of food and clothing for the kids. Fair enough. Other parents wouldn’t make that choice.

            Home phone requires a down payment plus a monthly expense, and you can’t get one in a hostel. Disposable cell is $20 and you use it until you’re done. The working poor don’t have the luxury of a home phone.

            Charities that run with volunteer labor are more cost effective than government programs. The best charities using paid administrators rarely break 75% distribution of funds, and they only do it because of huge cash volumes (red cross and Koman come to mind). The local church-run charities here with paid administrators rarely break 50% and garner support because their church affiliation makes the gifts tax deductible and pays the parson.

            I worked for DOE at the height of the nuke weapons program when every hair-brained scheme got funded and no amount was too much (during the Reagan years.) That was the era of $1200 toilet seats and $700 hammers. The GAO survey for that time period pegged the waste at 20%. I’m sure 50% plays well on the Glenn Beck Fantasy Hour, but it’s no more real than 0%.

            “Meanwhile, New York continues to play catch-up as disaster recovery specialists look at the New York response as a Katrinaesque example of what not to do. Mayor Bloomberg continues to ignore the plight of the citizens in the areas of Staten Island and Rockaway, Queens. In absence of a coordinated relief effort, the residents have begun organizing their own relief centers as FEMA remains visibly absent. ” So, the lack of FEMA response on Staten Island because of the magnitude of the disaster is an indicator that FEMA should be smaller? Would you feel better if Bain Capital rented generators and sold water at inflated prices to them?

          • montanabill says:

            It meant I had to give up cigarettes. Please spare me on the working poor. I’ve been there, done that.

            Now we have exchanged $700 DOD hammers for million dollar GSA conferences at high priced resorts.

            Were you so generous with FEMA during Katrina and Bush was President?

          • johninPCFL says:

            So in your mind, FEAM responding to a disaster that covered 600 miles of coastline is roughly the same as FEMA not getting to the city of New Orleans? You do know that’s a false equivalence, right?

            Yeah, hundreds of thousands of hammers and toilet seats and every other piece of overpriced junk Reagan bought is roughly the same as one overpriced conference. You do know that’s a false equivalence, right?

            Giving up smoking is roughly the same as choosing between food and life insurance. You do know that’s a false equivalence, right?

          • montanabill says:

            You can claim whatever is false you desire.

          • THS_Warrior says:

            Poster montanabill still has a problem with poor people having cell phones this late in the year of our Lord 2012:

            “Seems to me that cell phones are the most expensive way to communicate. How about a good old fashioned simple house phone?”

            FYI: The Republicans that you elected to represent you in the Congress, and the Republicans that you elected to represent you in your state legislature (and all the Democrats that I and other Democrats voted for) decreed that all humans receiving unemployment compensation as well as all welfare recipients have the ability to contract and be contacted by telephone.

            That opened the door for three sharp very wealthy Republicans who own cell phone companies to bid on and be awarded lucrative contracts to get rid of enormous inventories of trashy low-feature cell phones they cannot sell anyway and then provide “free” cell phone service to the poor people receiving state and federal unemployment and welfare benefits.

            The three wealthy Republicans that own the companies are making additional huge fortunes by this latest “government give away.” They are laughing all the way to the bank while Lush Rimbaugh and others tell all you ignorant conservative right wing haters that the federal government is wasting their tax dollars giving away free cell phones to poor people.

            And you believe it.

          • montanabill says:

            You are getting lost in the minutiae. The point and the example were to illustrate that you choose the least cost option, not your preferred option.

            While you are telling your ‘wealthy Republican’ stories, don’t forget to include your ‘wealthy Democrat’ green energy stories.

          • THS_Warrior says:

            Poster montantbill was mistaken when s/he said: “A single mother of two working full time at a minimum wage job would earn over $24,000/yr.”

            According to published government documents the current federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. That hourly rate equates to $15,080 per year, not $24,000 as montanabill said.

            FYI: The state with the highest minimun wage in America is Washington, which requires covered employers to pay workers $9.04 per hour. Since there are also 2080 working hours in an given year in Washington too, their hourly rate produces an annual earnings of $18.803, not $24,000 as montanabill said.

            And finally: Assuming that poster montanabill actually lives in Montana then s/he should know that Montana’s current minimum wage is only $7.65. Montanabill’s hypothetical “single mom with two children” working in Montana would only make $15,912, not $24,0o0.

            Note: I am expecting montanabill to come back swinging hard, saying s/he was including some unstated amount of free government money avaiable to most poor people who suffer with these pitiful minimum wage jobs and are smart enough to file income tax returns.

            The reason I left out federal earned income credits is because not every low paid single mom with two children files tax returns to get it, and because it is not a wage. It is a credit. It is given BECAUSE these wages are so pitifully low and cannot be included in these low wages (by honest people).

          • montanabill says:

            You are correct. I admit to not knowing the average minimum wage across the country. I made the mistake of assuming that the hourly rate I pay part time manual labor ($12) was minimum.

            I did, however, forget to ask why the father or two fathers were not paying child support or possible alimony.

          • THS_Warrior says:

            You (poster montanabill) are to be admired for voluntarily paying almost twice what many other small business owners pay their part-time uneducated employees.

            (Unfortunately, the fact that the federal minimum wage is a “federal law” is too often used as an excuse by greedy small businees owners who do NOT pay higher wages to any employees.)

            Also unfortunately, every separate state has vastly different laws and very different enforcement methods regarding child support and alimony. Some states really go after the deadbeat dads (and some deadbeat moms too) because they recognize that all parents must be responsible for all of their children.

            America also long ago abolished “debtors prisons” because America is “enlightened” and does not think humans should go to jail just because they are in debt. IMO, we should re-visit that position and either allow states to put deadbeat dads in prison or make them work for minimum wages on chain gangs again (like some southern states used to do) and give all their earnings breaking rocks to their poor children.

          • montanabill says:

            You have to consider that some businesses simply do not have a profit margin or the ability to create a profit margin that will allow for paying much more than minimum wage. It is either pay minimum or not be in business. Which is preferable? Many small margin restaurants are now being forced to go to all part-time workers. It takes a lot of people to cover the hours these places are open and that people count brings Obamacare into the picture, forcing them, if they have full-time people, into providing expensive health insurance or paying a fine. The solution: if you are a friend of Obama, you can get an exemption. Otherwise, you change to almost all part-time.

            Some states will still jail deadbeat dads. Should be that way everywhere.

  21. Rick2101 says:

    Rubio added: “But it’s a supporting role, to help create the conditions that enable prosperity in our private economy.”
    I’m not sure what Rubio means by that statement, but I do believe that the private economy has been around for thousands of years without government help. Humans have been trading salt, seashells, furs, etc. ever since humans first walked the earth. When Rubio says “create the conditions” I hope he does not mean “Corporate Welfare/Subsidies/Tax Breaks”. I can understand helping someone get started in business, but the idea of giving subsidies/tax breaks to a large corporate enterprise like General Motors, General Electric, Shell Oil, or Wall Street trading firms is, in my opinion not only wasteful and counterproductive but is creating a state of dependency. If big business cannot survive on its own, without government assistance, it simply is not well managed.

    • johninPCFL says:

      Those conditions include “clear” definitions of good corporate behaviour, i.e. civil and criminal laws, and court systems to try them in. Con men exist and are gone before civil suits and penalties can be waged and garnered. Criminal actions can be brought more quickly.

      Those conditions include police forces. Once tremendous wealth has been acquired, a private security force is possible. Until then, theft and robbery are concerns and private individuals have very limited ability to prevent them, or to investigate and prosecute after.

      Those conditions include infrastructures. Our businesses have changed dramatically over the last few decades as globalization has increased. Shipping products occurs via roads and air.

    • THS_Warrior says:

      Senator Marco Rubio is a second or perhap third generation “Cuban-American” who grew up in south Florida. Rubio comes from a large Cuban immigrant family that obviously had plenty of money because they were given favored status to immigrate
      to America by wealthy Republicans in power when the Cuban dictator Batista was being chased out of Cuba by Castro.

      Rubio himself has zero business experience. Other than being successful in Florida Republican political circles and having been elected to the House of Representatives
      in Florida where he became the speaker and served two years, Rubio is a total zero.

      However, there are many carpetbaggers in Florida who like Marco Rubio because he has a “pretty face” and because he can “talk the talk” all conservative Republicans love to listen to.

  22. Where is that vibrant Middleclass he is talking about? The real wages for the man on the street has gone down during the last 30 years all the while the corporations & the rich get much richer. The Republicians talk like everyone is or should be a businessman. They are still believing that the blue collar worker has a chance at becoming part of the upper middleclass, now who are the dreamers?

  23. elw says:

    If you think the base of the far Right is modifying their thoughts about the so called “47%,” all you have to do is go read Yahoo comments under any of their political articles. They still believe that they won, that all of the people who voted for the President are people of color, takers and on welfare, and they blame everything that is wrong with American on the “Gays” and “illegals.” The new Republican leaders may be changing their words – but the damage and the deep belief in what was said by the leaders of the Republican Party during the election campaign has work its way deep into their base. They have to do much more than use different word, they have to believe what they are saying and taking time and courage to tell and help reeducate the Republican base. They are far from healing themselves and quite frankly I think it may be too late for them. I will add one more thought for the President, your base has got your back “go for it.” Now is the time to do what is right for the American people, we know you can do it, we want you to do it.

  24. Ed says:

    The GOP still hates democracy. This party, which has mimiced the tactics of A.Hitler, is still following his script.

  25. Hog wash…Trying to convince people that the Repukes are suddenly interested in the welfare of the middle class and working poor,when their policies say differently, is basically saying people listening to this *rap are stupid and willing to buy anything–most are and will..Sorry to say…

  26. I agree with the implication that the Tea Party was the worst of the Repigs but even the best of them are basically promoting a selfish, flawed vision of social good. Clinging to the past and refusing to change is doomed to fail in the long run and the only way they have a chance is when they frighten people with boogeymen and lies. Hopefully the Tea Partiers are defunct but a huge number of people still believe the falsehoods spread by religious bigotry all over the country.

  27. rudnicker says:

    The IBC (Ignorant By Choice) GOP (Greedy Ole Pricks) may be too old to learn any new tricks. They keep trying the same old stuff over and over, lie then deny, lie then deny. It is time we banish them to the circus where they belong.

  28. ChristianMartin says:

    Michelle Bachman was scarier than any of those clowns.

  29. dalnb says:

    The results of a massive and continual four year media blitz by FOX TV and radio by the GOP and the funding by GOP supporters doing everything they could to see Obama fails and pushing a hate for Obama the GOP has realized their short falling is their lack of ability to sway sufficient American minds to just give oour nation away! Far too many voters voted for Romney not because he was the best person but because of the massive four year effort by the GOP to convince people Obama was failng America!

  30. ChristianMartin says:

    You are wasting your breath (typing) on these people Chuck. Some of them are as delusional and party blind as the Republicons are. If you dont believe me just read Indurrpundent’s article below. After 8 yrs. in office they will have crashed it just as bad as the Republicons and just like the Republicons they will accept absolutely no responsibility for their own mistakes and then just blame the other party. As mindless, shallow, and destructive as party politics can possibly be. We desperately need another party or two. It’s hard to see much difference in the two we already have….they are both perfectly content to crash it in spectacular fashion via the Fiat Ponzi scheme while ignorant, barely educated Americans are unable to think or see past their own party rhetoric.

  31. ChristianMartin says:

    Wow you really seem to articulate the issues. I like the way you seem to have a well-read historical frame of reference for your gripes and concerns…. oh wait, you went to public schools. They purposely leave out giant chunks of history so eventually there is no frame of reference and then they simply insert whatever benefits them best. Mind control starts at a young age Woodfern and in order for it to work historical knowledge has to be slowly removed from the curriculum. Do you really think it’s just Republiturds that are removing their kids from school?

  32. arch725 says:

    There will always be 2014 to get rid of the far right nuts, including my Congresswoman. I like how it was brought out that Ryan used the word “poverty”, I think 15 times. Did he look the work up in the dictionary and realize that a lot of his “fellow” Americans fall into this category?

  33. arch725 says:

    Regarding my statement, I mispelled word as work.

  34. nana4gj says:

    They can say whatever they want, use their words as much as they need with which to burnish their individual images and attempt to make themselves more palatable.

    But I will know them by their deeds. Any deed by any of them will reflect on all of them, so, they had better tell their compatriots in Congress to grow up and get busy being sincere and serious about doing the jobs for which they get paid and to stop the histrionics and rigid ideology over practical solutions.

    I am also fed up with the constant personal attacks and attempts to demean our President. I hope they got the message that we do not feel the same way and we dislike that disrespect, and I hope they understand that we will not vote for anyone who doesn’t even like us and that spending 4 years and a presidential campaign insulting every segment of our population does not win hearts and minds of voters.

    They also need to STOP the continued efforts of Republican states toward voter disenfranchisement for the next elections. That’s a no-brainer. And if they remain silent, they demonstrate no leadership. The same for all of their “media stars” who are surrogates for the GOP, who proselytize hate and divisiveness.

    It is hard to believe that those who demeaned groups of people as “takers” and not “givers” have suddenly changed their minds and opinions. If you, yourself, did not say it, but you remained quiet, you have as good as said it yourself.

    Finally, policies, policies, policies. If you support policies that are not science based, economically sound, tolerant of all religions and no religions; if you do not recognize the choices other people can lawfully make in their private lives; if you do not understand that the way to contain costs for healthcare is NOT to reduce ACCESS to healthcare but to reduce actual costs for healthcare services and delivery; if you cannot appreciate the need to protect consumers and investors from greed and fraud in our financial institutions, from workplace exploitation, then, you have no business in public service.

    And, finally, you need to tell your Party to stop the histrionics and the drama and just do the job, in the States and in the US Congress, otherwise, no matter what you say, you do not demonstrate leadership or the convictions of what you say you believe.

  35. I am really tired of being ignored by the Republicans who represent me. They get reelected in this venue because Kennedy was a Democrat and he refused to invade Cuba. I didn’t like it either, but I also don’t like voting for plutocrats who favor the wealthy with no discretion.

  36. Considering the attitude of the current older Republican party, it will be a long time before they take over the White House. Maybe they should go have a cup of tea, a 16 year one.

  37. marelbert says:

    Be afraid, be very afraid!

    • THS_Warrior says:

      Please do not listen to human fear. Nor should anyone ever let human fear control them or their actions on this earth.

      It may be too late for the pitiful fearful poster marelbert; but it is not too late to say NO to poster marelbert who is obviously trying to enlist other humans into her own fearful useless cause.

      Whether you believe in Him or not, long ago Christ Jesus said “Fear not for I am with you even until the end of the earth.” Christ Jesus knew that human fear is unreal. Fear is an unreal feeling in human minds caused by the absence of Love. That is why Christ Jesus advised all of us to love everyone on earth, including our enemys.

      During the German invasion of England a famous fearless Prime Minister of England named Winston Churchill said essentially the same thing: “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”

      No fear.

  38. lyrical56 says:

    I guess I need someone to explain to me exactly what the Tea Party did wrong…I didn’t see anything wrong with cutting the budget and spending to get ourselves under control? Isn’t that what we do with our own personal budgets to live within our means?

    I’m not a Tea Party person, though I did go with a friend to one of their meetings in San Antonio, TX and was quite impressed with the conduct of those folks – be they Goth or Texan, Mexican, some were just older folks who seemed to really just care about our country. I didn’t get a feeling of anything but a desire to do what is right.

    What did I miss? Seriously, I’d like to understand what the problem is and why they are always spoken of so derisively.

    • If you go back to the Tea Party rallies, the signs denouncing socialist medicine carried by seniors riding in their “humarounds” (furnished courtesy Medicare) is a hint. The large corporate funding (which led to the “astroturf” charges) is another.
      Dick Armey, one of the Tea Party leaders, came straight to TP from K Street in DC, where he settled upon leaving Congress. He just left his role with a $8.5M buy-out–strange way to part with a “movement”.
      In short, the TP was an artificial construct of conservative financiers that did attract honest believers in limiting government, but whose goal was simple party politics.

    • THS_Warrior says:

      The tea party movement was NOT a spontaneous outpouring of older American patriots. The tea party was a very successful political effort funded mainly by the healthcare insurance industry and by the 12 largest banks in America.

      Why? The American healthcare insurance industry is tightly controlled by a relative few yet extremely wealthy insurance company owners. They got very angry about the Congress passing Obamacare because Obamacare is preventing the industry from making so much money by skimming 40% off the top of heaklthcare insurance premiums paid in by (or on behalf of) most working people and all the elderly, sick and dying people of America who could no longer afford to carry any healthcare insurance.

      At the very same time the 12 largest greedy American banks and their extremely wealthy owners (and large corporate shareholders) were also very upset and angry at President Obama and the Democrats in Congress for putting back some of the (normal) regulations needed to prevent financial instututions from doing exactly what they did to America in the 15 year run-up to the financial crash of 2007-08.

      IMO, the best thing that the tea party movement did for America was to gang up on and remove quite a few of the ancient old guard “seniority” members of the House and the Senate. IMO, all of the ancient ones who got scared and retired or faced stronp opposition and were defeated in their own primaries, needed to go away anyway.

  39. Jackmack says:

    the Republicans are slow in learning but let’s see if they are willing ?

  40. ayayaboy says:

    Form a new moderate modern day party. Republican party we see now has ideologies of 1950s going back to stone age. They may lose Arizona in the next election if they continue with Ryan’s lies and Cantor’s NO to everything.

    • THS_Warrior says:

      If I was king of America for a day or two I would create a new political party called the Moderate American Party (MAP); and then I would require all “moderates” in the Republican party and all “moderates” in the Democratic Party to change their party affiliation to the new MAP.

      The conservatives in the GOP and the liberals in the Democratic party would NOT be allowed to join the MAP, ever. Each of these anti-American “fringe groups” would have to stay in the party where they have always been and would have to deal with each other for the next 50 years.

      Meantime, the great majority of moderate Americans making up the MAP would be free to elect intelligent moderate Americans to all elected public offices in America.

  41. tabster says:

    The Republicans aren’t going to come back to the center until they lose in 2016 or possibly 2020 even.

  42. William says:

    Actions speak louder than words, you need only look at their budget plan to see how they really feel. Its a far cry from what they say now.

  43. bpai99 says:

    My ideal candidate would fall on the ideological spectrum somewhere between the 2 major party platforms. Too bad both parties’ primary processes are unlikely to ever allow such a moderate candidate to get the nomination. So, I almost never vote for someone – only against.

  44. Jack Wormer says:

    A picture quite often is worth a THOUSAND words – ONE THOUSAND WORDS alone will not convince Amerian Society that the current version of Conservatism bodes WELL for our greater society, nor that such “Conservatism is to be trusted with our affairs of State!

  45. RobertCHastings says:

    If the Republican Party does not distance itself from the ultra-conservatism of the Tea Pary, and learn to silence rogues like Karl Rove and Sarah Palin, by 2014 there will be an even more serious divide along political lines, and the Republican Party will become inconsequential as average Americans become more moderate and accepting. While social issues that are today anathema to Republicans become more mainstream over the next couple of years, people will have had enough of Republican posturing over fiscal matters, and, as more Republicans like Jim DeMint leave Congress, moderate and reasonable Republican governors will see the need to replace them with more moderate individuals, possibly pushing the party from the inside. Several moderates, like Olympia Snow, have indicated bending on the issue of taxing the wealthy at a higher rate, which shows that moderates can lead the Republican party out of the dark.

  46. ExPAVIC says:


    Bill Murphy of TIME Magazine in current issue writes:

    “The Republican brand is dying, many of our strategists are incompetent, and we still design campaigns to prevail in the America of 25 years ago.”

    Case Closed. Any questions?

  47. a80a says:

    Rubio,Ryan,or who ever the R N C shall choose for their 2016 candidate, I really believe they are going to lose again. you can put them all in a sack shake real hard then release one, the ones left in the sack are equal to the one that was released.can anyone see a future republican presidental candidate for 2016? also if the speaker of the house doesn,t get off his backside , there very could be another big changing of the guard in 2o14. I think it will be time to change. what say you?

    • THS_Warrior says:

      IMO, you are being too harsh. There are many competent Republicans now holding high public office in America. You are just not able to see them because they are hard at work doing the jobs that the people in their states elected them to do.

      Advice: Ignore all the talking heads on the radio and in the MSM. Stop focusing on the brash young loud mouths who are promoting themselves for much higher-level jobs that they are not qualified for.

      These young GOP “leaders” are being touted by others living in dark places who have secret interests and are making plans to steal more money from all of us very hard-working Americans by electing weak compliant robot tools like Rubio and Ryan.

      Real American leaders do not act like these young GOP fools act. Real American leaders are quiet, hard-working humble servants.

  48. citizenmb says:

    Wow! Ryan used the word “common”–veering close to “communist” as the Tea Party would see it. What a sea change caused by the Hurricane Election 2012–enough to wash away the tide of Tea and bring the Repubs back to their senses…AS IF!

  49. As usual, Republicans are spewing out a lot of rhetoric while they have no intention of pursuing real change within their party. All throughout the campaign leading up to the election, Ryan was spreading his extreme right-wing propaganda and lies. Now, are we to believe that, all of a sudden, he has experienced a politically ideological conversion or is this just another example of his attempt to tweak the hard-right message to make it more palatable to Americans? Republicans are out to deceive Americans once again. Many in their party still strongly believe that their message and ideas are the right ones and that all they need to do is to more strongly communicate them and convince Americans of them. If anyone truly believes that Ryan, Rubio, and Jeb Bush are serious about real change in their party, then I have some ocean front property in California that I’d like to sell you. If Republicans were really serious about change and reform in their party, they would start by throwing out all the extreme wackos and nut cases such as Rove, Hannity, Dick Morris, Palin, Bachmann, the Tea Party, etc. The Congressional Republicans would overwhelmingly vote to raise taxes on the rich and demonstrate some bipartisanship and willingly to work with the President and Democrats in Congress. Republican politicians would retract and denounce their allegiance to Norquist, big business, lobbyists, and Conservative media moguls. Unless, and until, Republicans begin to make real and genuine changes in their party and pursue the causes of middle America, then all they are doing is making a bunch of rattling noise like empty pots and pans being hit against each other.

  50. Zoe says:

    I simply pray that the Republicans never ever change! That way, they will never ever regain the House… the White House! Just because they decide to talk differently changes nothing. They are who they are: elitist, entitled bigots for the most part, using fear tactics to sell Americans a bogus tomorrow. What is it that they fear so much, besides true equality?

  51. truthhunter13 says:

    Republican congressmen sold their souls to the Devil well before they started serving(By signing Norquist’s pledge). If I’m not mistaken, elected officials are supposed to do what the majority of the population wants. You can’t promise a bunch of rich, greedy people that you won’t vote against their own personal interests, because that will severely limit your ability to do a fair and impartial job. Unless you don’t care about the well being of your country as a whole.

    • THS_Warrior says:

      Poster truthhunter13 innocently asserts: “If I’m not mistaken, elected officials are supposed to do what the majority of the population wants.”

      Initial response: Unless you are talking about LOCAL politics in very small cities, counties and on our local schoolboards, etc., your assumption is way off base truthhunter. The general rule is that the farther removed from the voters, the less likely elected officials will care about what “the majority of the population wants.”

      Moreover, there exist two very different political schools of thought regarding elected representation; and you have stated on view fairly well, i.e., that “elected officials are supposed to do what the majority of the population wants.” As said above, that view usuall only works at local level.

      The other school of political thought (very prevelent today) is that “the voters who sent me here to represent them wanted me to use my best judgment when voting on anything; they have allowed me to vote as I see fit.”

      Fear of trouble at re-election time is why many seasoned politicians go to such great lengths to hide most of their controversial votes.

  52. CYNICALZ says:

    Bureau of Labor Statstics jobs report today (another side bar) excluding Military, 73% of the new civilian jobs in local, state, and federal in the last 5 months are in government. In the same 5 month period since June, the number of people employed by government is 20,554,000. And, Obama campaigned for 500m in new revenue, moved it up post election to 1,2T, to cut expenses at a later time with no limit or approval on what government may spend. We have two cliffs, Obama’s and Fiscal.

    He is in the Christmas spirit playing abundant Santa like someone spiked his teleprompter, and continues to promise anything- anytime.
    Can we talk reason?

    • THS_Warrior says:

      There are several posters here today who will “talk reason” with you poster CYNICAIZ, but only if you amend your erroneous post to reflect the published fact that during the first four years of the Obama administraion the number of federal employees has declined by more than 500,000 people.

      Any increases you can prove happened in public employment did not happen in federal government employment. Stop blaming President Obama.

      • CYNICALZ says:

        Is it not you and the “several posters” responsibility before making maladjusted assertion of information prior to calling attention to my erroneous comments? First, where did you get the 500m participation decline?
        According the Office of Management Budget, the number of federal employees grew by 120,00 since Bush. Federal government has been one of the few areas that have grown during the downturn.
        Private sector remains down 1.1 million jobs, also since Bush, while state and local have shed 635,000 positions.

  53. CYNICALZ says:

    Bureau of Labor Statstics jobs report today (another side bar) excluding Military, 73% of the new civilian jobs in local, state, and federal in the last 5 months are in government. In the same 5 month period since June, the number of people employed by government is 20,554,000. And, Obama campaigned for 500m in new revenue, moved it up post election to 1,2T, to cut expenses at a later time with no limit or approval on what government may spend. We have two cliffs, Obama’s and Fiscal.

    He is in the Christmas spirit playing abundant Santa like someone spiked his teleprompter, and continues to promise anything- anytime.
    Can we talk reason?

  54. gargray says:

    The repubs tried to destroy this country, give the rich more money and take and tax the poor. Obama had a platform and used it so he won. Obama saved Social Security, Medicaid Obama Care, The dream act, don’t ask don’t tell, Unions, and auto workers. And he will do many more things if the repubs stop being the House
    of NO Votes and work for the people of this nation.

  55. THS_Warrior says:

    I remember back in 2009 when irate Obama Haters of America (OHA) led by Lush Rimbaugh criticized President Obama for ordering the hiring of a huge bunch of new IRS examiners, agents and attorneys. Shortly after the IRS sent its new collection army out to do battle, all the private banks holding hundreds of thousands of secret numbered accounts started complaining privately about the United States and how its new strong-arm IRS tactics “were violating their customers’ rights.”

    Then they opened up all their secret bank records and wisely ratted out many thousands of American tax evaders rather than lose their ability to continue doing banking business in the world’s banking systems.

    As a result, many thousands of very wealthy American conservatives who were stashing most of their huge incomes and other un-taxed money in their “secret” accounts are quietly signing IRS cooperation agreements and paying income taxes owed and penalties to avoid prosecution and the public shaming that goes with IRS prosecution.

  56. THS_Warrior says:

    The word popular “terrorist” was invented by the far right conservative wingnuts. After all, every human always knows themselves a lot better than others know them.

  57. viccont says:

    Do you really think the Republicans have changed their tune in just 1 month. Give me a break, they are still the party which favors the rich at the expense of the middle class. This party is doomed for extinction with extremist thoughts.
    Good bye to the GOP.

  58. manchurian1candidate says:

    When I was a kid in the 70’s I viewed Republicans as, well, patrician. Fast forward 35 years, and now they’re overrun by repellent psychopaths with disgusting agends, with the help of religious zealots.

    Now, when I meet a person and they’re Republican I instantly believe they have a character defect. What happened?

    If they continue on this road, the next 30-40 years (maybe sooner) may bring a separation of the red states from the US. These Republicans want power at any cost, and this will bring them total control. Albeit with it, more destruction.

    Never say never. The seeds have already been planted. I just hope I’m not around to see it come to fruition.

    • THS_Warrior says:

      To poster manchurian1candidate: When I was a kid in the 1950’s I viewed all the Republicans who I knew best as being the kind, considerate and loving parents and grandparents (mine) who also taught me that God wanted all of us to become.

      Everyone in my extended Republican family was very proud when in August 1966 I volunteerd for the Vietnam draft, went to OCS at Fort Sill and was commissioned as a officer in the US Army Field Artillery in September 1967. While in the US Army I learned a great deal; and so I supported and worked to elect Richard Nixon in 1968, because he said he “had a secret plan to end the terible Vietnam war.

      I was lucky enough to live and be released from active duty in 1969. And By then my perspective was changing because Nixon had done nothing at all to stop or even slow the insane Vietnam war. I voted against Nixon in 1972 and never looked back.

      I voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976 because by then I had sadly realized that all the Godly Republicans I had admired were gone and were rapidly being replaced by a new breed of un-Godly greedy humans who my wonderful deceased Republican family members would not have recognized.

      Most real patriots know what has happened since; some just refuse to accept it.

  59. Maybe it is genetic. The repubs hear and understand the words that are used to expose their positions as evil. The problem is they just get mad and work to get revenge. I can only suggest that there is something overtly animal about repubs (especially teatards) and something deficient in their “souls” that makes them refuse to understand.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.