Smart. Sharp. Funny. Fearless.
Wednesday, October 26, 2016

WASHINGTON — Barack Hussein Obama can begin his second term liberated by the confidence that he is already a landmark figure in American history. His task is not to manufacture a legacy, but to leave his successors a nation that is more tranquil because it finally resolved arguments that roiled it for decades.

Whatever happens in the next four years, Obama will forever be our first African-American president, and our first biracial president. He has won two successive popular-vote majorities. Andrew Jackson and Franklin Roosevelt, both of them icons, are the only other Democrats who managed this.

Obama fought for and signed a sweeping health care law, an accomplishment matched only by Lyndon Johnson’s Medicare. He led the country out of the worst economic calamity since the Great Depression. Restoring growth will count for more on the historical scales than petty arguments over what his stimulus program achieved. He ended one unpopular war and is preparing to close another.

What he has not done is heal our national political distemper. Indeed, his very identity — yes, as a black man, but also as someone who is urban, highly educated and culturally progressive — sometimes served to aggravate the divides in our body politic: between the North and the South, the rural and the metropolitan, the young and the old, the liberal and the conservative, the traditional and the modernist. And racism always lurked, barely below the surface, as another force pulling us apart.

The president cannot be blamed for how others reacted to him. But so many Americans, Obama included, hoped that his identity would allow him to have exactly the opposite effect: His victory in 2008 would be the occasion for putting aside our partisan rancor, our ideological rigidity, our bitter racial history. Obama wanted to be the agent of a United States of America in which the word “united” would become an accurate description of our polity.

It is a sign of just how divided we are that there is discord even on the question of how hard Obama worked to put discord aside. Many of his supporters believe he wasted far too much time trying to conciliate a Republican Party and a conservative movement that were irreconcilable. Critics to his right claim he never understood them and never reached out to them. His program can be fairly described as moderate and market-oriented, yet conservatives insist it was and remains radical and statist.

Obama eventually decided he could govern only if he could first win a larger argument over the proper scope and central purposes of government. His re-election should have settled the matter. But will it?

  • charleo1

    Whenever I hear anyone say of Obama, he promised to bring us together, but he lied.
    I say, the first time Obama lies the Country into a 2 trillion dollar war, get back to me.
    Well, they complain that Obama is aloof, and not that into the kind of back slapping
    camaraderie that made Reagan, or LBJ so successful in getting Congress to work
    with them. And I think to myself, that’s all well, and good. But, let’s bring back Reagan,
    and see how far his affable, and oh shucks, demeanor gets him with the T-Party, when
    he tells them he believes, to be fiscally responsible, we’re going to need to increase taxes.
    Which he did, 4 times, in his 8 years. He also increased the Federal payroll, to deal with
    a recession that on it’s worst day, was still better than the current recession’s best days.
    The comedy writers over at The Onion, hit the nail squarely on the head, on the election
    of Obama, their headline was, “America gives worst job in the Country to a Black man!”
    This bringing people together by it’s very nature, requires a partner that at some point is
    also wiling to seek common ground, and where they find it, work together for the common
    good. I continue to believe President Obama is still willing to work across the isle.
    But, I also believe the other side is still, out to Linch. Er, I mean lunch.

    • that’s total nonsense the Right, the Republicans wanted to keep fighting and never intended to work w/ Obama in the first place

      • True, and we all know why they didn’t want to come together. They still have that KKK mentality.

        • Don


          • Nuff Said Please What In The Hell Are You Talking About?? Yes You Have Said Enough!!! Please Stop Talking To Me PLEASE!

    • I Totally Agree With You My Friend And You Are Totally Right, Out To Linch Is Just What They Want To Do To Obama From Day One!! Sad Excuses For Humans!!! 🙁

      • Just sorry losers.

      • Don


        • STFU TALKING ME!!!

        • The democrats are the KKK. They started racism, They linched black and white republicans. The KKK is democrats and they are (unfortunately) still around to spread their filth.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Dumb-ass — it’s spelled ‘lynch’. Nobody needs to be told who the KKK and racist morons are — your demeanor announces it to the whole world.

            By the way, is it true that redneck bigots don’t feel pain the same as the rest of us? Just wondering.

      • You are KKK.Linch your Mother.

    • lousgirl84

      Amen to that. He ever lied about anything. The liar in chief was George w. Bush who did everything he said he wasn’t going to do.

    • tobewan

      Some historical perspective may be added here. Recall how Napoleon broke up a long standing reigning power, plus developing good reforms of long standing.
      More recent, some will remember the breaking up of Ma-bell, which proved to be of great benefit for the USA and the world.
      Likewise, we have a current President destined to break up long standing corrupt ideaologies in the development of the USA. Will he accomplish all? No, not likely, but if he can get SOME of it done, it will go a long way toward rectification of rights and the betterment of all of Americans.
      Money and the greed thereof has been the corrupting factor. It truly is a source of evil.
      We ARE moving toward the Kingdom, gradually but surely! Much more slowly than could be imagined a hundred years ago. Our prayer remains the same, “Thy kingdom come.”

      • charleo1

        As you point out, the deconstructing or breaking up of large, too big to fail institutions,
        and the power of their influence over Congress to mold public policy in their favor,
        continues to be of great concern to a growing number of Americans. Especially after
        the great American bailouts of Wall Street, coinciding with the great hollowing out,
        of what I consider the heart of our economic power, the Middle Class. That this has
        happened, there is no debate. But the causation of why it has happened, is the fault
        line. The starting point of our national debate between two very different philosophies.
        Who have very different views, and very different ideas as to the role of government.
        As far back as 1830, President Andrew Jackson sought to end the 20 year contract
        with the Second National Bank to serve as the Country’s treasury. He thought it was
        a bad idea to have all the Nation’s eggs in one basket. And he was even more concerned
        about the influence of those who owned the bank, on Congress. Sound familiar?
        I believe it was Mark Twain who said history doesn’t repeat itself nearly as much,
        as we have people who keep doing the same damned things over, and over. Personally,
        I have no doubts the Country once more needs a rebalancing. Now, whether or not
        that is even still possible. But, like you said. It will not be completely done in the
        term of one President. Or one victory at the polls. We need to see the empowerment
        of the People, as a work in progress. A never ending battle for parity.

    • Bush lied too unless you found those weapons of mass destruction.

    • Sand_Cat

      My memories of Reagan’s time are not as sharp as they should be, but did he ever actually admit to raising taxes? Seem to me it was more like Iran-Contra, where he never admitted to trading arms for hostages.

    • jendevizio

      And Reagan increased the national debt from $800 Billion to $2.4 TRILLION

    • montanabill

      If you can just provide proof, we might be able to charge someone. Otherwise, it’s an opinion.

      If you really think Obama wants to work across the isle, you have been doing some serious tokin’.

    • Charleo1 you has a lot of S… in your Brain,like the GOP ,ohhh you are too.

      • FredAppell

        Fidel, read charleo1’s comment more carefully. He supports President Obama 100%. He is using sarcasm to criticize the Republicans for trying to destroy Obama.

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    The real problem in this country today is envy. There are those who cannot stand the idea of anyone but themselves making great strides and achieving their goals. This is why the GOP is such a failure today. They just don’t get it. There NEVER is a way to thwart the achievements of those who set personal goals for themselves and employ the kind of determination to succeed that President Obama has. So they trick themselves into thinking that setting up as many walls as they can will force him into defeat. Just imagine if our Olympic Champions lived in fear of obstacles to their goals. Our president has had gargantuan walls put before him. He breaks through those walls by using his intelligence and his inimitable courageous will to succeed. To obstructionists, this is arrogance. Is it? Or, it is a President willing to stand tall against all odds for his country? Who do the obstructionists stand for? Certainly not the greater good of all of the people of this country.

    • I See The Haters Are Up Early Lying As Always These Are Some Sad Excuses For American And Sad Excuses For Human Being!!! I Believe And Know To Be True This Man Has Done A Lot With All The Crap He Has Been Thru With Dealing With Our Very Own Home Grown Terrorists Cells Hell Bent On Destroying Our Country And The People That Live Here In Order To Make More Money!! The GOP/Tea Party Is No Different From The People They Always Hollering About !! They Are More Like The Terrorists And Traitors Than Christian And Patriots!! Sad Excuses For American Real Sad!!


  • Good Morning What A Great Day To Be An American And To Watch History In The Makings!!! For The Second Time Our POTUS Will Take The Oath< With All The GOP?tea Party American Taliban Tried To Stop This From Happen On The First Day He Took Office Back In 2009,, Lying Cheating And Trying To Steal Our Vote WE DID IT!! I KNOW THERE IS A GOD CAUSE THERE WILL BE NO PRESIDENT Romney!!! Thank You My Fellow Americans And Thank You GOD!!!:::::::::::::::::::::::::: And For You Racist Trolls Out Here STFU Don't Even Try It!!! You Will Get Ripped!!!

    • neeceoooo


    • latebloomingrandma

      Nobody says it quite like you, Fern! Love it.

  • its is to be that the Pres. is setting the ground word for the country. starting the road for others to follow its a good thing . if he didnt have to fight the hating evil dress-hood wearing party of no he would of gotten more done . but all’s good laying the ground work . its the start for a better country . now if ppl in the country could just see yes its a race thing . ITS A HUMAN RACE THING

  • Happy Inauguration day to everyone though it is a bit cold. Again we are witnessing history made. Those in our side (I hope you know yourself), you can remember how hard it was to make Pres. Obama second term happen. That came and went. We have now to see what we fought for is not lost on the way. We have to get engaged and focused all the time and support him in every endeavour. Casting votes was not enough, seeing him be successful is what matters. Fine, let us all of us play our part. It can be done.

    • Amen Yes It’s Cold But This Day Warms My Heart!!! 🙂 WE DID IT THANK YOU ALL FOR THIS DAY!!!! The Election May Be Over For Now But As We All Know There More Work To Be Done!!! Come 2014 There’s Even More House Cleaning To Do, 2014 And Beyond!!!

  • old_blu

    The election part is over now it’s time to get to work, hope the Republicans can finally admit they lost and start working for all of America, and not just trying to make more money off us middle classs.

    • Don’t Let These Thugs Fool You!! They Still Ready To Keep Dividing This Country With Their Greed Racism Cause Never Forget They Are Great At LYING!!

      • old_blu

        You’re right Fern, they don’t give a crap about you and me and the rest of America, it was just a little wishfull thinking on my part. And good morning to you my friend, it’s a good day.

        • neeceoooo

          It makes me feel so proud to be a part of the wonderful country, especially on a day like today.

          • old_blu

            You are right even though I have to work it is still a great day.

      • FredAppell

        Damn Fern, I said the same thing on Nov. 8 and all I got was silence. I guess at the time everyone thought that I was being negative but I have conservative friends and I knew through them that our fight was just beginning. Now that Obama doesn’t have to worry about reelection anymore he can get down to business. To hell with the haters, if Obama was the second coming of Christ they would still loathe him.

    • Don’t bet on it. If you want to see an angry white guy look at John Boner and his ilk are still going to not think of the country first. Let’s get rid of him.

  • montanabill

    Just a few notes, E.J.
    1. “His program can be fairly described as moderate and market-oriented…” Only to someone who doesn’t understand business.
    2. “…he has already won some of the tax increases…”. But the real problem is spending and he has done nothing, nada, zero, about that.
    3. “The president is now free to address the needs of the poor as well as those of the middle class…” What do you think 47 million people on food stamps, skirting the work for welfare rules, Obamacare, and the liberal use of SSI and SS disability are all about?
    4. “He can set about proving that a decent level of economic security and social justice can actually foster entrepreneurial dynamism, risk-taking and inventiveness.” Sure, every entrepreneur wants 10’s of thousands more regulations, cost-of-business increases for things like Obamacare, and higher taxes with the threat of more.

    • Let’s se, done nothing about spending??? Inherited a budget from Bush (10/1/08 – 9/30/09) with 1.6 trillion in deficit spending, and the deficit for 2011-2012 was 1.1 trillion. That sounds like at least 1/2 a trillion in spending reduction over 3 years. And believe it or not, he’s cut spending for 3 years – yes 3 years, which is the first time that’s
      been done since Truman cut spending for 3 years in a row right after WWII.

      And if there are 47 million on food stamps, the majority of them being there is the fault of nitwit Republican legislators in Red States that cut budgets and state services so fast that t hey threw millions of REPUBLICANS onto welfare. More than 70% of food stamp users are REPUBLICANS. The six states that suck the most welfare (because stupid Republicans cut budgets severely during a recession) are all RED STATES. Just remember, the 8 states really supporting the country, which pay the most in taxes to Washington, And which get the least welfare back for the taxes they pay, are all BLUE STATES!!!

      And numerous studies (except those falsified by the right-wing wacko Chamber of Commerce) have proven time and again that regulations have VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH SUPPRESSING SMALL BUSINESS GROWTH. And you’re forgetting to mention that Obama has cut taxes on small businesses 17 times over the past 4 years. And the nonsense that Obamacare will really strap businesses is only not a long term problem. It may be a problem now because the section of Obamacare that will drastically effect healthcare costs and insurance rates doesn’t take effect until 2014. But once that kicks in, I think the American population is going to be surprised at the changes when insurance companies have millions more insureds to spread the risks among and healthcare providers don’t have the millions of people they treat who can’t pay for their healthcare.
      Just like so many other Americans, you’re so short sighted, you can’t see the forest for the trees.

      • montanabill

        Sorry, I forgot we had re-elected Bush to a third term. The Red-Blue state business sounds good, as long as you don’t look behind the curtains. You should do that.

        Since less than 36% of food stamp recipients are white, it would be quite a stretch to say that all of them plus 34% of the minorities are Republican, don’t you think?

        Sorry, I own several businesses. I can tell you that regulations have a big effect and require substantial cost to keep up with, even if you are not directly affected. I have not been affected by a single one of these ’17 tax cuts for small business’. Obamacare has already substantially raised my healthcare costs and I was already paying for insurance for my employees and their families. We have already seen wait times for appointments increase and the worst has not even started. Many doctors are moving to practices that don’t take insurance or Medicare. Others are selling their practices to hospitals because they can’t afford the staff to keep up with Medicare and Obamacare paperwork.

        You need to get some real world experience.

        • You’re apparently not aware that presidential budgets run from October through the following September so a new president has time to make a budget when elected. So the new president INHERITS the previous president’s budget, and no president prior to Obama has inherited a budget that was already set up with 1.6 trillion in spending because the previous president had negotiated to very costly programs to try and save the country from the debacle he created – like TARP and the Auto Bailouts.

          And you apparently think when a president creates economic devestation multiple times what Hoover inherited back in 1929 which end up throwing the country and the world into a depression, that the devestation he created just magically stops because he runs of office Well I’m sorry sir I’m just not bying that crap, despite the fact he ran out of office in January 2009, HE’S RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEVESTATION HE CREATED AT LEAST INTO 2010. It took FDR 13 years, yes that’s 13 years to fix the absolute disaster that Hoover and the GOP created back in the 1930s after a recession that was no worse than what GWB ran into in early 2000s. And anyone who expected that just because Obama walked in the door in January 2009 that suddenly the close to 1,000,000 jobs lost per month were going to magically disappear, is a dellusional as you are sir. And I don’t care how many business you’re running. You are still vlery short sighted!!!

          • montanabill

            I’m fully aware of how budgets work and that Bush has been blamed for anything and everything for the entirety of Obama’s first term and it looks like the second term, too. It took FDR until Dec. 6, 1941 to start to recover from the depression. Without a little help from Hitler and Hirohito, it might not have happened at all since nothing Roosevelt had tried was working. Actually, when he died, we had close to full employment, but people hardly felt they were doing well.

            Want to know who thought that if Barack Obama became President that things could be suddenly made better? Senator Obama. Go back and re-read his campaign speeches.

            The devastation was caused by the collapse of the housing/building market bubble, precipitated not by Geo. Bush, but by the Community Reinvestment Act and Democrat pressure on banks to make loans regardless of whether people could repay them or not.

        • WhutHeSaid

          Oh my, here you are spouting lies again and whining about how much you dislike paying your bills.

          First of all, your assertion that 36% of food stamp recipients are white is FALSE. You neglected to mention that almost 20% of food stamp recipients fall under the race category of UNKNOWN, meaning that their race is not recorded. That tells you that up to 56% could, in fact, be white — we just don’t know for sure.

          What we DO know is that the majority of those on food stamps are poor children or seniors. Quite a few are military families. Why are you jealous of poor and hungry children, seniors, and military families? You keep claiming to be successful, yet you incessantly express your jealous rage over poor people getting enough to eat — what’s that all about, eh?

          Further, your entire state sucks up more federal money than it pays in taxes — I have no doubt you do the same. Montana sucks up over $11,000.00 per year per person — almost twice what they pay in taxes.

          You slack-jawed, chicken-f***in’, rooster-lickin’, sister-humpin’, redneck bigots need to just start paying your share or just shut up with the whining already.

          • montanabill

            No, you don’t know for sure. None of them could be white, as well. Even if they were all white, that would still require all of them and 14% of the others to be Republicans. Still not likely. Are poor children Republicans? Pretty clear that if we have 47 million getting food stamps and a real unemployment rate over 15%, it is highly possible that the President’s actions aren’t too successful. Now, you aren’t going to give that load about the President not getting his ‘jobs bills’ passed are you?

            I’ll tell you the same thing I tell everyone who uses that Red state Blue state argument. Look behind the curtain. See exactly where and to whom those funds are going. For example, it takes just a few more dollars to build and maintain a federal highway across Montana than it does New Jersey. Heck, Montana reservations are bigger than most Blue States.

            You must think you are paying your share. Mind telling just how generous you were last year?

          • A what’s all this jibberish about “behind the curtain”? What’s any of that got to do with the fact that it sounds like Montana, just like six southern red states, cut budgets and services so fast that they threw thousands of their citizens onto welfare. Sure, they balanced their budgets and feel so good about themselves, these nitwith GOP numbskulls who haven’t learned that you don’t severly cut spending during a downturn – otherwise you end up just like Europe, which is the only sector of the world still in deep recession: and why?? Because they tried the same austerity nonsense as the GOP and their economies are in another tailspin: just like Montana. So you Montana folks feel good about yourselves because like these 6 other red states in the south that lead the nation in needing help from Washington by sucking over $2 in welfare monies for every dollar they pay in taxes??? And you’re proud of that?? Goes to show just how low some people can get in Montana, doesn’t It???? Take a look again at the charts and find those 8 blue states you want to denigrate that are even now prosperous enough to pay the most taxes in the nation (really supporting the nation), and yet getting the least welfare monies back for the taxes they pay – many of them less than 75 cents back for each dollar they pay in taxes. Why, BEHIND THE CURTAIN do I need to look at to say that you’re so full of crap you’re swimming in it!!!!

          • montanabill

            Now be careful. Montana has two Democrat Senators and a Democrat Governor.
            What I’m talking about, at least in Montana’s case, is that we have a few more miles of federal highway than, say, New Jersey or most blue states. 30% of the state is owned and maintained by the Federal government. Montana has numerous and fairly large and very poor reservations. Those things have to be looked at (the behind the curtain) before you can safely say those doggone Red states are getting more than their fair share.
            The problem is that you want to believe the talking points.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Bullshit. Montana has all of 2 interstate highways, and is so sparsely populated that almost everyone driving them is coming from — and heading to — some other state. The biggest town is Billings, for Christ’s sake — and that’s hardly more than a village.

            Are you trying to tell us that a state with no real cities needs as much funding as a REAL state with REAL cities and a REAL need for funds to repair heavily-traveled highways? We aren’t talking about donkey trails here — we’re talking about states that actually have destinations with people who want to go to those destinations.

            Please come up with a better story.

          • montanabill

            Long highways used by more than just Montanans. Hard winters. Lots of maintenance. Look up the demographics of Billings.
            But I’m sure we’d be happy to put in a donkey trail for you to use to cross Montana, in the unlikely event you ever get out of Oz.

          • WhutHeSaid

            So what is your point? That Montana also sucks up more than it’s share of federal highway funds? If that’s your point I don’t see how it helps your argument. Yes, Montana does indeed slurp up more that it’s share of federal highway funds. In 2009 Montana contributed $135 million to the Federal Highway Trust Fund Highway Account, but received $423 million. In other words, Montana received $3.12 for every $1 it contributed.

            How does this help your argument? The expense isn’t large enough to argue that this is the reason that Montana snorts up far more in federal funds than it contributes. The real reason that Montana needs to slurp up revenue from other states is clearly the oversize portion of individual payments going to Montana citizens. This means things like food stamps, disability, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. In other words, a great many Montana residents appear to just love TAKING money from the federal government — even while they squeal and whine about other people ‘freeloading’.

          • montanabill

            I would think the highway point would be self-explanatory. The Federal government wanted national highways, including Interstates. They are Federal highways paid for by federal money. Where they are is irrelevant.

            As far as people, apparently you missed my request to look up demographics. Nearly 7% of Montana’s population are native Americans who are very poor and constitute a large percentage of those receiving aid.

            However, I will note that Montana’s use of food stamps grew only 3.6% compared to New York’s 11%. 11% of New York is pretty close to the entire population of Montana.

          • WhutHeSaid

            You have no ‘point’ with respect to the interstate highways in Montana — self-explanatory or otherwise. The interstate highway system is a valuable part of American infrastructure that is worth a great deal to American businesses of all kinds. I dare you to claim that you don’t rely on the existence of that infrastructure — both for business and personal purposes. At any rate it doesn’t account for Montana’s excessive consumption of federal funds — I’ve already pointed out that the reason is federal payments to individuals, which is a matter of public record.

            I didn’t miss your allusion to demographics in Montana — I’m just waiting for you to make a point. Since you seem to believe that it’s important, my guess is that this is perhaps one of your excuses for Montana’s over-consumption of federal funds. The problem for you is that Native Americans aren’t found in Montana alone, but can be found in every state in the Union. Are you trying to claim that 78,000 people are responsible for Montana’s federal funding deficit?

            Montana’s food stamp use grew at a lower rate than New York, eh? What is your point? New York takes in far less in federal funds than it contributes. In fact, New York pays in $4,502 more for every resident than it uses, while Montana receives $4,149 more for every resident than it pays in. Ironic, isn’t it: New York pays enough to subsidize Montana’s overuse of federal funds with money left over, yet it’s Montana that’s chock-full of tax-snorting rednecks who blame federal spending on ‘liberals’.

            That’s not all: New York also has a Native American population of 221,000 — nearly 300% of Montana’s Native population — yet STILL carries Montana’s weight and then some. How does any of this help your argument?

            I must say that I wonder about your claims that you are a successful businessman. Not only do you make outrageous assertions that you run businesses that are successful solely because of your ‘entrepreneurial skill’ — without any need for infrastructure, finance, a customer base, an established economy or legal stability — but you also deny your part in federal spending even though I know you have and do receive federal funds. As if that wasn’t hypocritical enough, you express jealous rage at the poorest people in society, and now the victims of historical crimes to boot.

            Is there any person poor enough or unfortunate enough that you don’t begrudge the air that they breathe? Do hungry babies infuriate you and paraplegic veterans draw your scorn for being too lazy to walk?

            Just pay your bills and stop being a hypocritical deadbeat. Try to get the rest of your state to work harder at pulling their own weight while your at it. And please — for the love of God — stop your pathetic whining.

          • montanabill

            Sure we use the Interstates. But mostly we move on Montana roads and byways.
            As you pointed out, it is the rest of American moving through and visiting Montana that are the primary users.

            There may be 221,000 native Americans in NY, but less than 12,000 of them live on reservations. Those 10 small reservations are far better than any of the 7 large ones in Montana, on which, by the way, nearly 70% of Montana’s native Americans live. Since Montana has legalized gambling, native American casinos are not a source of income for them.

            The rest of your rant about ‘entrepreneurial’ stuff simply shows ignorance.

            You are using the same demonology that the left always uses when the rest of us complain about the volume of welfare or the cost of government….”you would starve hungry babies”…”you don’t want police and fire protection”. You should know full well that the 83 government welfare programs costing us nearly $800B a year (more than DoD, SS or Medicare) are not models efficiency providing help for only paraplegic veterans or starving children. You apparently never see useless bureaucrats or desk ornaments taking government salaries.

            You whimper that I’m not pulling my weight, but you don’t tell us how many people you employ or employed, or what your ‘fair share’ amounts to. I’m doing well and it makes you feel inferior so you must resort to name calling and insults to boost your ego. Good luck with that.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Of course you use the interstate system. If you didn’t have interstate highways, businesses in Montana would be at a disadvantage to businesses in states that did. But that’s only one public benefit that you use — there are countless others.

            Just out of curiosity — how would you know whether a given reservation in New York is ‘better’ than a given reservation in Montana? It’s my opinion that you really don’t have a clue, rather, you are simply talking out of your ass again. You clearly wish to lay the blame for your state’s over-consumption on the Native Americans — how novel. But false. Show me the evidence that 6% of an already tiny state population is responsible for doubling the consumption of federal funds.

            The ‘entrepreneurial stuff’ is all you. You are the one who claims that businesses spring up wherever you walk without the need for anything from anyone (except you, of course). I know better, and I say that any successful business you may have started may not have even been possible (never mind successful) without the contributions of generations of Americans.

            In fact I HAVE seen useless bureaucrats who are a waste of space, but no more than any other vocation. But you aren’t complaining about waste — you just don’t want to pay for anything — not even what you use, apparently. You continuously rant about poor people using government funds, but you seem to forget about the many millions who aren’t poor and use government funds — such as yourself.

            I don’t need to call you names to boost my ego. I don’t become enraged at the mere mention of Warren Buffett — as you do. I don’t need to insinuate with every post that I’m more successful than you. I’m quite satisfied with my success in life, and I don’t mind paying my share if I believe it’s reasonable. That’s where we differ: You don’t want to pay your bills no matter what, and that’s known as being a ‘deadbeat’. Well, I’m afraid you have no choice in the matter. I hope that clears it up for you.

          • montanabill

            I said we use the Interstate system. I’m on I-90 at about 3 hours per month when I’m in Montana. However, there are alternate, more scenic routes which I prefer to use. I use the National Forests, too. Government property. Government maintenance.

            I will admit that I have only been to only a couple of the reservations in New York, so there may be some that are as desolate and unproductive as those in Montana. Since I doubt you have been to any in Montana, you can have no conception of what was provided to them by the government.

            I had available to me the same assets as any other American, if they were born to a poor family. I had the freedom to get however much education I wanted to work for. I had the freedom to work at whatever job I could get. I had the freedom to risk what few assets I had to start businesses. Yes, generations of Americans provided those freedoms, but they were not freedoms that every other American didn’t and doesn’t have. I haven’t just limited my rants to perfectly healthy people on welfare, I’m equally against corporate welfare.

            I don’t become enraged at Warren Buffett’s name or even at him. I become enraged at people who believe the garbage he spews and don’t bother to check the facts.

            Again you are dodging the question. You are quite concerned that I’m not paying my fair share when you have no idea how much I pay. If you don’t want to answer the question about what is your fair share, then tell me what you think a person’s fair share ought to be. How much money is a person’s ‘fair share’ if they are not on welfare? Does a person who makes $50,000 and gets the same benefits from the government as a person making $5,000,000 really deserve to pay 400 times less?

          • WhutHeSaid

            Yes, of course you use the Interstate system — I never doubted it. I’m certain that you use each and every public benefit that you feel is, well, beneficial to you. You speak of the government as if it is some onerous monolithic entity. Allow me to offer you a bit of news: The US government is owned and operated by the public at large. Indirectly, perhaps, but it’s owned and operated by the public nonetheless. Those ‘government’ funds are in fact ‘public’ funds.

            You assume far too many things for your own good. I have, in fact, been to a reservation in Montana — more than one. I don’t dispute that they are little more than outdated concentration camps located on the most useless land that could be found at the time they were formed — this is true of most reservations. But this doesn’t help with any of your arguments at all — it just shows that you are willing to talk about things that you know little about.

            Yes, you and every other American had benefits and opportunities available that were provided by generations of hard-working and very often generous citizens. A great many of these Americans were thoughtful, knowing full well that their hard-earned dollars would be used by people they would never even meet. Even so they were willing to pay their part to ensure that America was a land of opportunity. I’m inclined to respect your dislike of ‘corporate welfare’ for the reason that corporations do not have human needs. I DO NOT respect people who claim to be wildly successful yet begrudge those in poverty receiving some assistance. A person who supports spending almost half of the world’s total defense cost for the sake of a single country while there are hungry children is (in my opinion) a shameful hypocrite.

            I don’t remember you offering to make your tax returns public, so you can spare us all your bullshit on the subject until you do. It’s no secret that taxes are the lowest they’ve been in over 60 years, so instead of your pitiful whining you should be grateful that you are getting off easier than countless Americans before you.

            Look, it’s a matter of morals and character. Advocating enormous unnecessary defense expenditures when there are so many Americans having a hard time of it is irresponsible and morally corrupt. That goes double for tax breaks for millionaires. I don’t expect you to understand the importance of morals and character — that’s something that you should have learned as a child. It may be too late for you to learn anything new, but it’s not too late to make you pay your share. America has decided, and it’s now your reality.

          • montanabill

            It still boils down to “what’s behind the curtain” when you simply spout the Red/Blue state talking points. You have to look at what the money was spend on and who got the money. It is never as simple as saying, “Red states are living of Blue states”.

            I’ll assume we have both lived sufficient years to reach retirement age. I started in poverty. I’ll assume the same for you. We both had the same governments. We both had schooling opportunities. I overcame polio and I’ll assume that somewhere along the line you had health issues to deal with. So, basically, we have had the same opportunities, give or take. We each made the individual choices that resulted in the lives we have lead. Here we are at retirement age. At this point, my ‘fair share’ is well into 7 figures. I would guess that yours is 4-5 figures. Did I really get that much of an advantage because somehow government treated me differently than you and gave me advantages you didn’t get? Or are the higher taxes simply to try to ‘even’ the outcomes?

          • WhutHeSaid

            Once again you make far too many assumptions. I am not retired, nor am I yet retirement age. My family was solidly middle class, but my parents did not believe in assisting their children with tuition, so that means that a) I did not qualify for government grants because of my parents’ income, and b) I had to arrange for tuition on my own. Consequently my education was paid through my own income and private loans. I did not have to deal with any health issues as serious as polio. I was also lucky enough to be born in the richest country on Earth where there was enough opportunity (provided by previous generations) for me to achieve success. My ‘share’ is a good deal more than you think.

            If you want to pursue your ‘behind the curtain’ argument then you need to apply it with equal fervor to situations that you’d like to ‘assume’ are such that the argument benefits you. Looking into Montana’s excessive consumption of federal funds did not benefit your argument, and you have yet to explain how the ‘red-state-sucking-up-blue-state-taxes’ argument is false in this case. You may find some examples that support your argument if you look hard enough, but when you take the totality into consideration I believe that you’ll find the ‘red state/blue state’ argument to be generally true.

            I’ll guess that you’re being facetious when you ask if high taxes are trying to ‘even’ the outcomes — no serious person actually believes such a thing. To use a theory that I’m sure you’ll enjoy, it can simply be viewed as a matter of supply and demand. If you need funding you go where the money is. You don’t look for revenue where the money isn’t. In practice this is progressive taxation. You may not wish to spend money at all, but then that’s a different issue. Society as a whole decides when and how much to spend, albeit in a roundabout way.

            There are many reasons why progressive taxation makes sense, not the least of which has to do with working and middle class purchasing power being the primary engine of economic growth. If you get regressive enough with taxation then you will eventually strangle the goose that lays the golden eggs (so to speak), and then everyone is screwed. The best economic growth in this country’s history was achieved during periods where taxation was more progressive and somewhat higher than it is today. I believe you’ve already acknowledged as much. Perhaps then you can explain why this country should continue to kill off the middle class, yes?

          • montanabill

            If you are solidly middle class, my estimation of your ‘share’ can’t be too far off.

            A simple search for Blue voter sections of Red states will pretty well tell you where the money is going.

            Actually, I’m not being facetious about even outcomes. It is what the public was sold during the last campaign. Those ‘evil’ rich people got their money on your backs or they got it by cheating. And since we need money to redistribute, they need to pay more. It is only ‘fair’. Progressive taxation has always been Democrat dogma as a way to even outcomes. It is the way government can reward friends and punish enemies because it allows endless tinkering. A ‘fair’ system is a flat tax with no way to create deductions. The only exclusion is income at or below poverty level. 17% of $100,000 income is $17,000. 17% of a $5M income is $850,000. The high income people are still paying more than middle income. Everyone is paying according to their earning ability.

            FYI: The only time the economy boomed during a period of high upper end taxation was after WW II when American was rebuilding. Even then, because of the allowed deductions, effective tax rates were well below top tax rates. Granted a thriving middle class is good for the economy. Since the middle class is created by business, a good business climate is essential to the business grow that builds the middle class. We don’t have a good business climate because of excessive government.

          • WhutHeSaid

            You aren’t very good at paying attention, are you? I said that my family was solid middle class. This means my parents had a middle class income when I was a child.

            You aren’t going to get off that easy on the red vs. blue state issue. The states that tend to vote Republican are famous for being the same states that receive more than their share of federal funds, Logic tells you that means that Republican voters tend to use more federal benefits and contribute less in taxes. The opposite tends to be true for states that tend to vote Democrat, so logic again tells us that Democrat voters tend to contribute more in taxes than they use. If you want to dispute the obvious you need to provide some proof that can be verified. An alternate approach would be to admit the obvious.

            It’s clear to me that when you start talking about taxes you immediately start offering lies in place of facts. ‘Evil rich’, ‘even outcomes’, and ‘redistribution’ are all lies created by those who are greedy deadbeats not wanting to pay their share. Nobody believes in ‘evening outcomes’ or ‘redistribution’. Likewise, nobody considers the wealthy in society to be ‘evil’ merely because they are wealthy. These are just lies constructed to exaggerate the reality of the situation: If funding is needed one goes where the money is. It’s not ‘punishment’, ‘redistribution’ or ‘jealousy’ — those are just lies fabricated by deadbeats.

            Flat taxes are neither fair nor economically sound. Taking 20% of your income will not leave you in a situation where you cannot feed yourself, but for lower income people this may be exactly the result. There are two ways to solve this problem: a) use progressive tax policies, or b) reduce spending until the resulting ‘flat tax’ will not cause even the lowest income individuals to suffer any more hardship than the higher income individuals. For the latter to work, however, the voting population must be willing to reduce government services and other benefits (including defense) to a level that such is feasible. Currently the public is NOT willing to reduce services that much, so that more or less means that (a) will be favored whether you and I like it or not. That’s called ‘democracy’.

            It’s a good bet that you don’t earn your living as an economist. Tax cuts have NEVER resulted in any significant economic expansion. In fact, the post-war period that you cite saw marginal tax rates above 90%. This was also a period of significant government investment including the Interstate Highway System, among other large projects. It should also be noted that unions were quite strong during this period, which helped to grow the middle class. The growing middle class in turn fueled economic expansion. What did NOT happen during this economic ‘boom’ was significant tax cuts. Another thing that did NOT happen was serious cuts to government spending. Since both of the major things that you advocate were NOT part of the post-war boom, I have to guess that you aren’t really all that interested in economic growth.

            So let’s see: What is it that tax cuts HAVE produced that you like so very much? There are only 2 things that I can think of: deficits and income disparity. Reagan set us off on this course by initiating runaway spending. Taxes have been cut so much that they are the lowest they’ve been in over 60 years. Well, what have we gotten from all of these tax cuts, including 10 years worth of the Bush Tax Cuts? Deficits and income disparity is the answer. Since you CLAIM to dislike deficits, then I’d have to guess that it’s income disparity that you like so much. Makes sense — that’s simple greed without regard to the potential for long-lasting economic damage. I could have told you this without even engaging in a debate, and, in fact, I believe that I did.

          • montanabill

            Just in case you see this before Sunday night, do yourself a favor by watching the Hannity rerun Sunday night. The show is called, ‘BoomTown’. I know Hannity is probably not on your must watch list, but this show is largely non-partisan. It is a quick look at Washington, D.C. It is like the Washington I used to roam 35 years ago, but on steroids. In those days, I worked for one of major government contractors. Since I was good at presentation with an engineering background, I was picked to accompany marketing and company execs as they worked Washington for contracts. We had a big office on K St. and I flew there in the company’s jets. I was aghast then and it is obvious that it has only gotten worse. It was the reason I got away from them and have never done government work since.

            I’ll get to your topic when I have more time.

          • montanabill

            Well, I’m sorry if I confused you for being middle class.

            Logic tells you that Republicans, people who generally believe in self-reliance, take more from government and pay lower taxes? And that same logic tells you that Democrats who like big government giving them things, pay more in taxes than they receive from government?

            You need to get with Obama and get him clear on using the word, ‘redistribution’. By the way, ‘fairness’ in Democrat language means the same thing as ‘even outcomes’.

            Tax cuts not resulting in economic expansion? I guess the historical record is a lie, then. And yes, taxes are the lowest they have been for over 60 years. And when they were initially lowered, they resulted in record income to the government as business flourished. Government revenue went down because of job loss created by the housing bust.

            I’d have to say equating not liking deficits with greed is something I’ve not heard before. I never thought that when I was finally able to pay off my credit cards and pay off my mortgage, that I was being greedy. By paying cash for everything, I was damaging the economy. I didn’t know that.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Yup, you nailed it — Republicans talk about self-reliance but don’t actually practice it for the most part. It’s a verifiable fact, so don’t feel like anyone is picking on you for pointing it out.

            Nobody believes in ‘evening out’ people’s incomes, so stop beating that tired old nag. What people DO believe in is helping those who need it more than those who don’t. Is that a difficult concept for you? I know that you use public benefits, yet you claim to be famously wealthy — able to launch successful businesses at the drop of a hat. So what’s your excuse, hmm?

            We need look no further than the decade-long experiment with the Bush Tax Cuts to see that tax cuts are no panacea. There is no ‘historical record’ of tax cuts producing a lasting economic expansion, so stop trying to sell me that bullshit story unless you can provide evidence otherwise (you can’t, of course). The most prosperous times for the American economy have always been when the middle class was doing well — not the upper 1%. That’s the key, and when people lose sight of that fact they are just underwriting their own economic demise.

            As for your self-serving argument regarding greed — when is the last time you paid cash to use the Interstate Highway System? I thought not.

          • montanabill

            Care to cite your verification?

            So ‘redistribution’ is not evening out incomes? I firmly believe in helping people who need help and do. Government believes in creating dependency.

            You know, just claiming something isn’t true and then using coarse language, doesn’t change facts. Facts that can easily be looked-up.

            You are right on one count. The economy has always been the most prosperous when the middle class was doing well. Now, can you figure out why they were doing well?

            You have a penchant for putting together to completely unrelated items to try to make a point. However, if tax money is used appropriately, then every time I buy gasoline, I’m paying to use the Interstate Highway System.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Let me address your last point first: Yes, your fuel taxes help pay for the Interstate Highway System. That’s not a cash transaction, now is it? It’s an indirect payment for something that you and your fellow Montanans suck up far more than you actually contribute. So I guess the federal government has made you a dependent on the Interstate Highway System — unable to resist driving it of your own free will, eh? Even if you never personally drive on an interstate highway you are still reaping the benefits. I rest my case.

            No, ‘redistribution’ and ‘evening out incomes’ are not the same thing, and neither of them is policy that is advocated by anyone. When you and your fellow Montanans suck up the tax dollars from a state like, say, New York — most people just think to themselves “well, those Montana hayseeds are just needy”. Only the hypocrites (such as the tax-slurping hayseeds themselves) work themselves into a lather over it.

            Let’s see: Why does the middle class fare well some times and not others? Hmmm — does it have anything to do with Bush Tax Cuts? We all know how well that worked out. The holy ‘job creators’ who need tax cuts to lavish the gift of jobs upon the masses apparently didn’t get enough tax cuts to do the job, yes? Just when do you thing that this particular theory would kick in? When the upper 1% started getting PAID by the rest of society? Taxes are already the lowest in over 60 years — how low do you think they need to be, seeing that the most prosperous periods of economic expansion had HIGHER tax rates?

            By the way, what type of award do you think the wealthy deserve for ‘giving’ the little people jobs out of the goodness of their hearts, and just why are those wealthy people so terribly generous in the first place? Sing us the praises of the wealthy and the horrible hardships they endure to ‘bless’ the working schmucks with jobs (bless their altruistic little hearts).

            You aren’t the only person that has achieved financial success. At the risk of sending you into an infuriated apoplectic fit, let me remind you that your wealth is practically invisible when compared to, say, Bill Gates or Warren Buffett. Yet both of these people seem to disagree with you. How can that be? Since they have thousands of times more money than you — shouldn’t their opinions be thousands of times more valid?

          • montanabill

            We’d be happy to remove the interstates and put in a toll road for you out of state types that would like to cross Montana. We know how to get around with them.

            Apparently, you don’t remember Barack Obama’s reply to Joe the Plumber.

            Nope. Tax cuts are only indirectly responsible. Thriving businesses are responsible. If tax cuts and less regulation allow business expansion, then the middle class will expand and do well. If businesses cut back and hold their place, the middle class with similarly be cut back. I guess it will be up to you to decide whether business if currently flourishing. And if not, why.

            I’m sure all the people I employ would have a good laugh at your ‘giving’ comment.

            We’ve talked about Buffett before. He looks out for himself. Bill Gates? I guess when you can give away billions and still have billions left, you can be liberal. Oh wait, he didn’t give his billions to the IRS, he runs foundations. Wonder who heads up the foundations? There is a nice subject you can look into. How to set your relatives up for life by making them heads of foundations.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Why would we want you Montanan-nites to put in toll roads when you’re already snorting up everyone else’s tax dollars like a herd of drunken aardvarks? Since the ‘liberal’ states pay for your highways (among other things) they should at least get to drive on them once in a while.

            So you think that businesses create and support the middle class, eh? It figures. I’ll bet that you believe the only meaningful life your mama ever had was due to your birth. Many businesses would never exist at all without middle-class America to buy their goods and services. So who came first — the employee or the business? I’ll bet you have a very difficult time answering that question, because it’s in your nature to see yourself as a ‘gift’ to those around you — many of whom no doubt aren’t worthy of being ‘blessed’ by your presence.

            Somehow I doubt that your employees have much to laugh about.

            Since you have time and time again expressed your belief that your wealth entitles you to more credibility than others, I see your choices on this point as follows:

            a) You have as much credibility as the next guy — no more and no less.
            b) Since Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are wealthier than you by a factor of many thousands, then the opinion of just one MontanaBill is insignificant, and it will require many thousands of people just like you to successfully dispute their opinions.

            I’m pretty certain that you find both choices horribly distasteful, but at least one of them must be true. Let me know which you’d prefer.

          • montanabill

            Who came first, the business or the employee? And you find that a hard question to answer? Well, here’s a clue. No business, no employees. The rest of your post is just as out-to-lunch, as well.

          • WhutHeSaid

            I thought as much: You have been consumed by greed for so long that reality comes in a distant second. No employees, no business. Also, since you need the help here’s a hint: The employees (people) came first. Ditto for the customers. Business is tertiary.

          • montanabill

            Here’s another clue. A business can exist without employees. I have a couple. But an employee cannot exist without a business. Also, my businesses that don’t have employees, also don’t have customers. I’ll leave you to figure out what those businesses do.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Boy do you have it bad. You’ve been stroking yourself for so long that you can no longer tell the difference between reality and self-serving bullshit. Employees can and do exist without businesses. There are thousands of occupations that don’t need to be part of any business. If my neighbor’s son gets paid by the hour to mow his neighbor’s lawn, and the neighbor sets the hours — he’s an employee. No business necessary.

            Now I know that you’ll try to twist it around in a misguided attempt to justify your greed, but you already lost the point. No, the boy isn’t a business — he’s just employed.

            I’m not interested in guessing what types of businesses you might run. But one guess I WILL venture is that you probably have at least one business fleecing taxpayers in one way or another. It’s just in your nature: you see the chance to accumulate money, and by hook or by crook (more likely) you go for it, thoroughly convinced that you are entitled to said money because you are somehow *special*.

            Allow me to spell out the truth for you: Accumulating monetary wealth isn’t the most important thing in this world — it’s not even in the top 10. Being wealthy does not make you indispensable, noble, honorable or even a good person. You have to work on those things separately from wealth — if you are interested in them. I doubt that you are interested in them that much — you just want the money. If poor children happen to go hungry in order to feed your greed, I’m absolutely certain that it’s just fine by you.

          • montanabill

            Disagree. If the boy offers his services to the neighbor, he is an employee of his own business. He may not run it like a business, but it is a business none-the-less.

            It seems to be beyond your comprehension that a business can create a product that people want to buy, whether it is a service or a physical entity. In your mind, that seems to be ‘fleecing taxpayers’.

            Accumulating wealth is usually a by-product of doing something you really like to do. Of itself, it has little to do with the attributes of a person. In your world, anyone who does that is forcing children to go hungry because you do not live in the real world.

          • WhutHeSaid

            You may disagree, but we are not living in your alternate reality fantasy-land (Scroogeland). In reality, anyone who gets paid an hourly wage and does not set their own schedule is an employee. They may be an employee of another person, and that doesn’t make either of them a business.

            I’m guessing by your preemptive attempts to defend fleecing taxpayers that I was not far from the mark. No doubt your valuable service to your less-than-willing customers is to ‘lighten their financial burden’.

            Accumulating wealth CAN be a by-product of another pursuit, but for some it becomes the very reason for their existence. This appears to be true in your case. In my world, if you advocate policies that would exacerbate hunger among the poor just so that you can accumulate a few more pennies, then you are, in fact, putting your gratification above the hunger of poor children. I’m absolutely certain that you, like Ebeneezer Scrooge in the Dickens story, would agree that the sick should also die off quickly and relieve the surplus population.

            Face it Bill, whether you started that way or not, you have now become a modern-day Ebeneezer Scrooge. I knew this after reading just one or two of your first posts, and said as much. You’ve done nothing to disprove my original assessment.

          • montanabill

            The minute I said I was wealthy, you formed a negative opinion that fits your world. Got to go now. Time to get out on the sidewalk and use my bullwhip to force more customers into my shop where I have trained burly clerks forcing them to empty their wallets.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Like everything else you post, you form a defensive argument for what you perceive as a challenge to your world view. You long ago lost the ability to examine your own world view objectively. Everything must serve to validate your exaggerated sense of self-worth or (to you) it is heretical. It’s a shame, really, and it must be a miserable way to live. The irony, of course, is that one day you will lose all of it. I don’t know what beliefs you may have of the afterlife, but I can picture you believing that you can negotiate an advantageous contract for yourself. Good luck with that.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Oh, and riddle me this: I’ve seen many employees create a business. How many businesses have you seen create an employee?

          • montanabill

            Any business formed by a single person who pays themselves a salary. If the person forms a business but does not take a salary and hires no one else, it has no employees at that point.

          • WhutHeSaid

            I see that I’m talking to somebody who lives in an alternate reality. In Scroogeland, businesses pop into being all the time. No doubt this is why you believe that you can fashion successful businesses at whim without anyone’s help.

            In your magical greed-world, picking somebody’s pocket causes a business to appear *poof!* the moment the wallet leaves the victim’s pocket. No doubt you will tell me that this ‘new business’ has just served it’s first customer by providing a service to ‘lighten his load’, yes?

            But even in your magical kingdom (Scroogeland), the person doing the pick-pocketing existed for quite some time before the, ahem – ‘business’ — that is, unless you are claiming that newborns often form businesses this way. Is that your claim?

          • montanabill

            That is so far out-to-lunch, I can’t even fathom a possible response.

          • WhutHeSaid

            I’m quite sure that you’d find a way to respond if there were a couple of pennies to be made. Try listening to your own arguments, where 12-year old boys mowing lawns are now ‘businesses’, or businesses can magically create their own employees. Talk about out to lunch.

          • WhutHeSaid

            I’d say it’s a pretty fair bet that a good number of that 20% ‘unknown’ are white — do you dispute it?

            OK, let’s ‘look behind the curtain’ as you say. Montana is a pretty small state by population — just a little over 1 million people. There aren’t many blue states that are this small, but let’s take New Hampshire as an example of a blue state with a similar population (1.3 million).

            Using data from 2009 (you may search for data you feel is more aligned with your self-serving cause), we can see that New Hampshire received $11.8 billion in federal funds. Montana received $10.9 billion. So far, so good.

            But $2 billion of the dollars that New Hampshire received was for defense, while only $746 million of Montana’s federal funds went to defense. Grants, perhaps? Nope — Montana received $2.9 billion in grants while New Hampshire received $2.6 billion. Federal salaries perhaps? Nope — Montana received $1 billion in federal salaries while New Hampshire received $$847 million.

            No, the real difference between the 2 states was the amount of DIRECT PAYMENTS to individuals. New Hampshire received $2.3 billion in direct payments while Montana received $3.1 billion — for LESS people. If you do the math it works out to New Hampshire residents receiving direct payments amounting to $1,753 per resident, and Montana sucking up a whopping $3,119 per resident — all the while whining about ‘freeloading liberals’.

            Is this news to most of us? No — it’s only news if you are a slack-jawed bigot who tunes in the Fox News every night.

          • montanabill

            Which people? We know Montana doesn’t have a lot of blacks, but it does a have a pretty large, poor minority population.

          • WhutHeSaid

            NOTHING in Montana is large, except perhaps the appetite that it’s residents (read: lying rednecks) have for sucking up the taxes of other states while whining about ‘freeloading liberals’.

          • montanabill

            You never did answer me about how much your ‘fair share’ turns out to be.

        • You better reserch again how many whites get food stamps and welfare in this Country and what states they live in. If you do own several companies you don’t like regulations because it keeps you and others from doing to this Country what is being done in third world countries and China by American Companies that moved equipment and jobs to them, toxic air, polluted water and use of child labor. How has Obamacare raised your healthcare cost when most of it hasn’t even gone into effect and won’t go in effect until 2014. If your health care insurance has risen blame your insurance company not Obamacare, insurance companies have been gouging their clients for ever and going for the last gouge this year next year they won’t be able to raise your payments on healthcare insurance just because they want to like they can.

          • montanabill

            Hillbilly. Yup, that about says it all. The facts on food stamps are easily found on government internet sites. You don’t own a company or run a business, so you are clueless about the impact of regulations. Unless you own an insurance company and have actual knowledge about their finances, you are repeating propaganda. There are lots of sites that will give you full information on the impact of Obamacare. You will find that, for the vast majority of us, there is nothing good about it.

      • neeceoooo

        Thank you independent1 for your response. I have jumped on the band wagon of healthcare with go ole montanabill before, and you are right, he can not see the forest for the trees (or maybe he doesn’t want to see the forest).

        I have worked in healthcare for years and I see nothing but good things coming from the healthcare reform.

        Thank you again.

    • montana bill, you ol’ toothless sumbitch! You got your double wide and that goddamn goat on the gubermunt dime! But, damn me, I’ll show you! I git a gubermunt check too, not as much as you git, but dag nabit, I’ll git me a double wide and my own goat, and have it dropped right next to you down by the woods! Now, chew on that, you uppity ol’ sumbitch!

      • montanabill

        You could take all the gubermunt dimes I ever got, and you still couldn’t buy a goat!

        • WhutHeSaid

          If you had a dime for every self-serving whopper you posted here, you wouldn’t need to be insanely jealous of Warren Buffet ever again.

  • bandrulz

    montana bill – blah, blah, blah $$$$, blah, blah, blah $$$$

    • highpckts


      • sigrid28

        Montanabill=dollar bill.

  • Charleo1: You put it so well. Thanks. I had tears of joy this time as I did the first time this man was elected. FINALLY, someone who can THINK. Someone the world can respect. I spent 8 years so ashamed of this country for GIVING Bush the presidency – oh yes, they GAVE it to him the 2nd time, and he lied, and lied, and the repugs loved it. WAR. The only thing they know, but never serve in.

  • People forget Obama inherited 2 wars and deficit, we have to take care of wonded in wars cost money. He toke trops out for Iraq and set withdrow sceledu from Afganistan. he acomplised a lot even objedtion by repulicans. Republican leaders in congress have only one goal: president should look bad.

  • Civilisations are born,culminate and begin to decline:electing President Obama for the first and second terms will delay ,if not turn around,the process of decline.
    The USA is great,but presrving greatness is far more difficult than attaining it in the first place!

  • President Obama has the opportunity to lead this nation wihout hesitation. He won the reelection and the voter spoke sound and clear. The Republican Party tried to stop his agenda and its does not worked out, Obama has the power and a mandate the defeated Romney by a large marginn and he should do what have to be done, job creation, environment, clean fuel ,education and stop intervention of othe countries.

    I believe that there is something President Obama should do take a close look at the abuse some people are commiting with medicaid and welfare, there are more people walking with cane in New York that at the end of the Second War, there are million people getting welfare and driving Mercedes Benz. It is undestable that some people needs government help and that is fair at the same time there are million people eating and seated whole day getting too obese that they cannot walk.

    I am a hard die Democrat and did what I could do to elect and reelect our President at the same time we should understand that our party is not the moocher party, our party is party of inclusion and that is the greatest thing our party can provide to us.

    • Felix, people taking advantage of programs like Medicare and other welfare programs is going to happen no matter how much you try to stop it – especially in an economy like over the past 4-5 years. But you may be encouraged by the fact that the Obama administration has pursued and recovered more fraudulent charges by doctors and patients related to Medicare over the past 4 years than the 3 previous presidents combined – saving America billions. And his administration had not only done that with respect to Medicare, they’ve also clamped down on a considerable amount of fraud in the defense industry contracting areas. So at least he’s been trying. But people will be people, so if they can find a way to better their lives, even if by cheating, many of them will do just that – cheat.

    • Sand_Cat

      A million getting welfare and riving Mercedes Benzes? Really? What’s your source?

    • jendevizio

      A national health care system would help to end cheating and stealing by health care providers.

  • Not once, not once has I ever heard President Obama use “race” in anything he has said. Even in the racially heated Travon Martin incident, he never once mentioned race. However, I have heard many reporters, pundits, detractors, and every day people refer to race or his biracialness every time they mention him. The theory that God placed President Obama in the presidency to show the racial divid in America and the world seems to be true. THERE IS ONLY ONE RACE ON EARTH: THE HUMAN RACE! The Bible tells us that in Galatians 3:27-29. America has always been and will always be divided long before President Obama and long after President Obama. America in its white supremacist illusion has always been resistant to equality and fair opportunity for the five hundred years it has occupied this country. Yet, in our post-racial neo-colonialist cum-ba-ya, something generated by Hollywood, we were lulled into a false sense of complacency. Until America and Americans shed its hypocrisy, come to terms of the wrongs and atrocities in the persecution of Africans in America past and present, make amends and embrace the Constitution for what it really actually stands for “that all men (and women) are created equal and are endowed with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”, there will forever be a divid in America. White people in America have to do that themselves, nobody else can do it for them or shame them into it. They have to face their own demons. President Obama is not African, white, biracial, HE IS AMERICAN. He represents Americans and has done a very good job under the circumstances. The disrespect shown to him by the Republican/Tea Bag/ Yellow Dogs has cheapened the office of the presidency and the honor the commander in chief deserves. President Obama is the leader of the free world, and to have a political figure, entertainer, or a regular American blurt out, gesture disrespectfully, or glower at him hatefully shows to the world that America is no better than any Third World, low ranked nation. As a nation, we have to get past these negatives, the dead weight, and move forward.

  • So it is all the Repubs fault that our potus has spent millions to seal his records, is closely affiliated with the muslim brotherhood, has spent trillions on HIS agendas, bypasses congress, has written more executive orders that any president in history, has spent more taxpayer dollars on lavish vacations, has failed to create a budget, is involved in suspicious and possible treasonous behavior, has written a healthcare plan that is supported solely by a dream he has, is a declared muslim in the books HE has written, and was raised and mentored by marxists in Indonesia. Not to mention his fake birth certificate, his social security cards, his lack of real experience, and the allegations of a fraudulent election.
    He tramples on our constitution and has divided this country with racial and economic issues, and frankly, is not to be believed because of all the lies he has told. YES, ALL of this is the republicans and independents inability to comply with his socialist agenda to turn America into his kingship property. He uses children as part of his propaganda campaign, is totally without dignity when it comes to getting what he wants, and will eventually destroy this country if given the chance. Mr. blame it on someone else has may have convinced you that he is more than a charismatic grin, but some of us are patriots that love this country more than we love the man and a party!

    • Wow! You’re as dellusional as it gets!! Spending billions to seal his record!! Is that why he’s cut spending by more than 1/2 a trillion/year over the past 3 years?? And cut spending faster than any president since WWII?? And he spends tons of taxpayer dollars on vacations!! Really?? Do you realize that he’s taken by far the fewest vacations and the fewest number of days off than any of the previous 4 presidents?? And do you know who leads the pack on taking vacations and spending money?? George Bush!! He took well over 240 days vacation his 1st term in office (compared to Obama’s less than 130 days. And George used to fly back and forth between his Texas Ranch and Washington almost every chance he got – spending millions too doing that – but for many more trips. And even Reagan took well over 180 days off and made countless trips between Washington and his California Ranch – again spending millions. Even Bush’s dad took well over 150 days and was constantly traveling between Washington and his Maine vacation home. So this nonsense about all of Obama’s vacation spending is just that – nonsense.

      And pretty much the rest of your post only serves to make it clear that you’re nothing more than the typical anti-Christion GOP loving racist biggot.

    • Sorry, I mis-spoke in my second sentence – that wasn’t 1/2 a trillion/year – that should be reduced spending per year by 1/2 a trillion during his term

    • And I forgot to mention, not only did George take the most vacation time of any president in history, he had a knack for taking them at the most terrible times: for example: do you realize that just after being warned 7 times (in 5 months) about an imminent attack coming from al Qaeda compliments of bin Laden, that George took the whole month of August 2001 on vacation at his Texas ranch?? That tied Nixon as the only two presidents who have taken that much vacation at one time. And guess what??? Despite him totally disregarding those 7 warnings from the CIA, bin Laden did just what the CIA had told irresponsible Bush would happen – America sustained the 1st foreign led terrorist attack on the homeland in over 150 years on 9/11 and 3,000 people were killed. Being a GOP lovere, aren’t you just so proud of that????

    • Countrybumpkin

      Here is the perfect example of what 24/7 indoctrination does to a simple mind.

    • charleo1

      Your real name is Donald Trump! Isn’t it? Or, Louie, Louie Gohmert! Am I right?

    • neeceoooo

      Are Lana Ward in disguise?

      • Sand_Cat

        Nah, the grammar is too good.

    • lexi001

      You really are stupid.

    • The fuck you say?

    • Show your proof that President Obama “paid” millions to seal his records, is affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood and all the other charges you are are making against him. Not the proof that Fox not News, Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump uses for their lies but proof that will stand up in court and convict the President of your charges beyond reasonable doubt. You can’t and neither can any of the others that post the lies you have posted. I have been trying to get stand up in the Court beyond reasonable doubt proof since 2009 and I haven’t yet seen any proof that your lies are truth. You say President Obama tramples our Constitution (which is spelled with a captial C not a a lower case c), In 2005 Bush 2 was reminded that he was breaking Constitution laws right and left at which time he replied”The Constitution is just a piece of paper, I have already crumpled it up and threw it out the window” in other laws if he wanted to ignore the Constitutional laws he did. Maybe I should say Cheney ignored them and told Bush 2 what to do when it was suppose be the other way around. When asked what Bush 2 and he were doing to cut the raising deficit he say “the deficit didn’t matter and they were doing nothing” Also Cheney and Haliborut made millions from the Iraq and Afghanstan wars.
      Instead of posting lies about President Obama while don’t you use your time to reserch the Bush2-Cheney time in office on someplace beside the internet and Fox not News and see that both of them should be in jail now. There are certain countries that neither Bush 2 nor Cheney dare travel to because if they do they will be arrested for war crimes.

  • I can’t believe the GOP still keeps saying how Conservative it is when they are the ones that created the dept. The only time they don’t spend is when they are not in power, when they are in power they turn into a bunch of drunken sailors.

    • William, you’re so right!! Every GOP president in office after Eisenhower has governed with significant deficit spending while Every Dem president that has inherited deficit spending has reduced it; and Obama has done that faster than any of them.


  • Countrybumpkin

    Great assessment of our President and our State of Affairs. Thank you Mr. Dionne

  • Unregulated “derivatives” roll merrily along , “too-big-to-fail” banks are even bigger ENSURING another big crash and bail out . The fine levied on Cheney’s Haliburton subsidiary for the BP oil spill disaster doesn’t even rival the bonuses these pigs award themselves as well as the paltry “fine ” and no criminal proseqution of any Bank of Scotland bankster yet the “whistleblower” on the Bank of Scotland is in jail. The AG Eric Holder appointed by President Obama is either a lap dog for corporate America or is a spineless coward . Either way we are SCREWED ! Oh yea and “bluedog/Conservadems” (Carl Levin and Harry Reid ) are ENSURING the fascist wing of the “pubtard”party will continue to obstruct the will of the people in perpetuity. The only hope I have is for President Obama to truley go FDR BIG TIME. If he continues on the “moderate” “center right” path he has chosen inspite of all the people like me who have pleaded with him to abandon that path in favor of the progressive path we are DOOMED as a country and we will see what “Rome after the fall” will be like

  • elw

    No one can bring people together who do not want to. To expect that of the President is unreasonable. That he had wished to do it and tried is admirable; that he realizes he cannot just shows his intelligence. No one should be surprised to see him move away from the mistakes he made in his first term; he has a need to do good things for the Country and its people and will be making every effort to do so. The Republican far Right only hurts themselves with their crazy talk and threats. Whether the extreme Right likes it or not, President Obama will go down in history with high marks for his Presidential accomplishments and for being the first bi-racial/African American President. I am looking forward to watching him keep moving us forward and just hope we find a candidate as good as him who is willing to run in 2016. May he stay safe and healthy for his term and to continue contributing to the good of the Country for many years after he leaves office.

    • To elw, one thing that would help bring this country back together again is that we stop saying a person that is born in this Country is African American, Chinese American and so on either call everyone American or multiracial which President Obama is. We all need to stop looking at the color of the skin pigment on the outside and realize that no matter the color of the outside skin pigment, we all bleed red blood unless you are anemic or odd . If everyone was turned inside out and no outside skin pigment showed, you would not know if your were looking at a person whose skin pigment was as white as clean driven snow or as dark as the darkest piece of coal. So let’s stop calling people Latino, Japanese, or Asian American , call them Americans period. When reporting, writing a report o a book about an native born citizen will you be calling person American or an Korean-Pakastain American?

      • elw

        I could not agree with you more. I firmly believe that one day it will be just as you described. It would make me happy to live long enough to be able to see that. However, I would point out to you that the President identifies with being black and has clearly refers to his bi-racial background. Using terms that describe our background does not in anyway make us less of a native born citizen and no one should shy away from using them because of the radical crazies that try to use them as a way to separate us. It gives them too much power.

  • bchrista

    I have a proposal forREGINA MCGLASHEN AND ALL THE OTHER ASSHOLES WHO FIND OBAMA AN OBJECTIONAL PERSON, A MUSLIN, COMMIE,LYING ABOUT HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE, BEING MENTORED BY MUSLIN BROTHER HOOD, SPENDING MILLIONS ON USELESS PROJECTS, USING TAXPAYER MONIES FOR LAVISH VACATIONS AND EXHIBITING TREASONOUS BEHAVIER, AND OTHER ELLEGAL ACTIVITIES, now if we could get a ranking official in Washington to convince BUSH,CHENEY, ROVE,ERIC CANTER,BOEHNER, AND McCONNELL to take a good shot of TRUTH SERIUM and then question them and then do the same to Obama, Biden, Reid, Pelosi,and any other Democrat I strongly feel that we would find that the Republicans have been in a constant lying program since before Nixon and if proven the extent of their lying and trying to under mine the country and make the President look bad then an executive order should be issued so that all that feel the President is leading the country down the wrong path that they should be provided transportation to any country of their choice before they sink with the rest of us. If you don’t like it here don’t let the door hit you in the ASS. You won’t be missed. Actually I thought using the children was a good way of getting a point across, do we really want to keep losing them because some asshole can easily get his hands on a high powered weapon and wipe them out before they have even experienced life. I think he was trying to embarass some people that assualt weapons are not needed to protect their homes, we as I write this just found out that a fifteen year old from a religous family,( the father was a pastor), killed his mom,father and three brothers and sisters. And still people with children feel that they need halfa dozen guns some of them assualt weapons and they will tell you that that situation won’t happen to then, they are kidding themselves if kids want a weapon and if they are available at home they will get access to them because whay good is a weapon at home that’s locked up wiyj a trigger guard when a mugger or thief breaks into your home and catches you with your pants down (locked), and surely your kids will know where to find the keys, lets not kid ourselves it keeps happening over and over again and we keep hearing the same excusses it won’t happen to me.

  • peteserb


  • peteserb

    Anger, divisivness, socialist, homosexual, marxist, elitist, unthinking, egotistical, and many more adjectives truly define our current leader.

    • WhutHeSaid

      … said the angry, homophobic, lying, deadbeat, beer-fartin’, sister-humpin’ redneck bigot.

  • Don


  • I haven’t read the whole article yet but I do have something to say to the article writer, E.J Dionne. and other writers and reporters stop calling the President African American, he is multirace. When people use the terms African American, Chinese Americans and so on to descript people born in the USA you are encourging the racial hate in the Country not helping get rid of it. We don’t call whites French Americans if their parents were born in France and their child was born in the USA, that child is said to be an American only. When writing an article, book and all other form of communications, they should only be called Americans not African, not Mexican and so on. If the person is born in the US and he or she has a parent that was born in the US and a parent born in Mexico he or she isn’t a Mexican American, he or she is an American peroid.

  • montanabill, just as whut and indepndent1 said, the attempt t keep the debt ceiling closed was an attempt to hurt the poor and disabled by limiting funding to health care, the homeless, mental health, children, and the elderly. Such a move would have had reverbrating economic effects on the lower and middle class and would have sent America’s economic situation close to what is going on in Europe and Greece because they tried to do exactly as independents1 and whut said. Republicaans/Tea Bag and the Yellow Dog Democrats in Montana are trying to prevent America from caring for its disadvantaged but diverting tax breaks to their billionaire friends. But, I’ll show you, you ol’ sumbitch, I’m gonna git me my goat jes like you!

  • You don’t own no businesses in a trailer park. What you talkin’, montana? You own a goat, not no business.

  • whut and independents is wastin’ their time on a sumbitch that own only one goat. Fuck ‘im!

  • If you want to see an angry white guy, watch John Boner at the inauguration. Get him outta there.

  • onedonewong

    Seeing as how his idols have always been Hitler Stalin and Mao I’m sure we will continue to see more Executive Orders issued as he pretends that these are laws that the american public must obey…Sig Heil

  • Charles2051

    Like to know is Obama the only one that been in office that DOEN’T HAVE A HOME, I cann’t think of one.

  • seethroughurlies

    The Republicans are like a bunch of jealous Children. They can not stand to see this intelligent, handsome, compassionate man of color that is loved by the world succeed. They call him “The Great Divider” and sling all sorts of slander and propaganda at him, and he just graciously sloughs it off and moves this country forward. I live in a red state that is about as backwards and racist as it gets. I was afraid to put an Obama/Biden sign up in front of my house or a bumper sticker on my car. These rednecks around here would burn my house down. I wasn’t afraid to help get votes for President Obama, and I fought the GOP tooth and nail on various blogs and editorials. Did you know Fox news doesn’t allow any commentary? It is also owned in part by a Saudi Prince. Just saying……
    The only division I have witnessed is the lies and propaganda spread by the GOP and Fox news. What their true agenda is I can only guess, but with that much hate and lies it can’t be for any good. I wouldn’t put anything past them. We picked up the tab for their 10 year wars and President Obama has brought this country from the brinks of another Great Depression.
    Today was a great day for all Americans. All Obama supporters need to get involved with the grass root movement “Obama for Action.” We are not divided as the Republicans want people to think we are. I have many conservative friends and family, and we are still friends and family. Ignore the evil far right, they won’t listen to you anyway.

  • mickschix

    I agree with that !! And Charleo1, you ARE funny….linch was correct! There are far more racsists in this country than even I thought existed!! THAT has been at the center of a great many of Obama’s biggest problems. Still people want to avoid SAYING THAT, it is still the elephant in the room, but WE know the truth . In spite of that, I think Obama will end up being one of the best presidents, if not THE BEST, we ever had! Reagan didn’t have 1/2 the intellect that Barack possesses.
    I want to see him taking full advantage of the 14th Amendment, meaning rolling right over the Republican obstructionists!! This should be an interesting second term. GO OBAMA!!

  • I thought Clinton won the popular vote twice….:-/

  • Dale Johnson

    It is interesting to note that Mr. Obama has lied about his agenda for over four years in the Whitehouse. With many attacks on both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights he will be remembered as the President who has done the most to dismantle both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to institute the writings of Karl Marx and Johns Ingalls in its place. this will leave the United States in a vaccume and the second part of a depression as he and his cronies destroy the currency in the name of “Reform”. History never repeats itself exactly, but you can see what is happening with a little study. This is something that is not taught in schools any more and it is causing us to do exactly what the Russians, Rome,Egypt, Greece and many other countries have done.