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Wednesday, January 17, 2018

The most important moment in Wednesday night’s GOP debate was one that didn’t receive a lot of attention in the press: Donald Trump gave up on building his border wall. The candidate’s boldest policy proposal, a 2,000-mile-long barrier separating the United States and Mexico, was shortened to a mere 1,000 miles:

Trump: As far as the wall is concerned, we’re going to build a wall. We’re going to create a border. [. . .] They built the Great Wall of China. That’s 13,000 miles. Here, we actually need 1,000 because we have natural barriers. So we need 1,000.

It would seem unwise for a presidential candidate to vaunt a project that required the toil of many generations of slaves, so we must assume that Trump is ignorant of the unpleasant construction history of the Great Wall of China. Still, he should know that the Wall was built across harsh mountain ranges — without regard for any natural protection that the topography may have provided. Those who seek to create a true barrier do not trust nature to perform the task for them.

In his capitulation, Trump has moved closer to the conclusion that I came to in my previous article on the matter: Building a border wall is very difficult.

I congratulate Trump for recognizing that he cannot negotiate with the faceless realities of construction, and for scaling back his proposed wall appropriately. Unfortunately for those Republican voters who demand a wall that spans the full length of the Mexican border, it looks like they will not get it with Trump.

You can read the author’s original analysis of Trump’s border wall here.

Ali F. Rhuzkan is the pen name of a professional engineer and unprofessional writer living and working in New York City. The author can be reached at a.rhuzkan@gmail.com.

Photo: Republican U.S. presidential candidate Senator Marco Rubio (L) talks to businessman Donald Trump at the end of the 2016 U.S. Republican presidential candidates debate held by CNBC in Boulder, Colorado, October 28, 2015. REUTERS/Rick Wilking

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Copyright 2015 The National Memo

180 Responses to Trump Wises Up, Abandons His Improbably Large Wall

  1. Wises up? By offering a wall half the height(maintaining the same length) of his initial disturbed ruminations? Well— it’s a step(or two) in the right direction away from the edge of the cliff.
    But he’s still dangerously close to plummeting over the edge.

    • What is it going to be, a 5 ft wall? That will keep out dogs I guess. I want to know how to keep out Canadians! (Eduardo “Ted” Cruz)

      • Top of the GOP PRIMARY poles! Big whoop. 30% out of 100% of republicans might vote for him … At least right now. Seen as there are 35% Republicans to 55% Democrats, that means about 10% approximately of those polled of likely voters will vote for him. I’m an independent and I wouldn’t vote for him if Satan himself was running against him.
        Yeah, he is in top all right. LOL.

        • Hmmmm, seems he’s got all the demographics covered. There are democrats voting for him. African Americans 25%. 31% of Hispanics. His rallies are packed. Independents,…. etc…. Stuck in your little world here? You seriously need to read more.

          Well, Lucifer is running on the liberal side. Her name is Hillary. Satan will be leaving office in 2016. LOL

        • Guess you don’t get out much….. Hillary gets so little airplay these days. I guess that is a good thing. Especially since she is guilty as hell.

  2. TRUMP WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN. this muslim is just a bleeding vagina with nothing better to write because his clock got confiscated by the police.

    • “Make America Great Again”??? Really?? Just so he can trash it like he has so many of his business failures?? And just like his business failures, end up dumping another failure on those who have trusted and invested in him?? But this time being THE VOTERS!!!

      Sorry, I wouldn’t trust Donald Trump to run the city dump!!!

      See this excerpt of just 3 of his 4 bankruptcies – where he trashed people’s faith in him as published on sheriffali.com:

      In 1991, unable to pay a $3.5 billion loan, he declared business bankruptcy. He also came close to filing personal ruin. At the time, his personal debt was estimated to be around $900 million. Due to the bankruptcy, banks and bondholders lost millions. They came to a compromise with Donald Trump. The banks gave him lower interest rates and a longer time frame to repay the debt and Donald Trump gave the investors half the ownership of the Taj Mahal. In mere months the casinowas back in business.

      Not even a year later, Trump Plaza Hotel folded and Donald had to declare bankruptcy. Again, he worked out a deal where he’d give up 49 percent of the hotel to Citibank and the other lenders and he’d get more time to pay the loan back. It took him two years to repay most of his debt with many sacrifices. He had to give up the Trump Shuttle.

      The bankruptcy saga didn’t stop there. In 2004, Donald filed for bankruptcy protection and restructured his debt. He reduced his ownership of Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts to 27 percent and gave bondholders stocks to help lower his debt and then stepped down as CEO. In 2005, things settled down and Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts came out of bankruptcy with a new name, Trump Entertainment Resort Holdings.

      Unfortunately the reemergence didn’t last long. On February 17th 2009, Donald Trump filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy with a debt ratio of $50 million in assets to his $500 million in debt. This filing made the third bankruptcy for Trump Enterprises.

        • “He’s not going anywhere…. He’s on top!”

          On top of what?? 30% or so of likely GOP PRIMARY VOTERS???

          That’s about the equivalent of being approved by 15% of all registered voters. Where is that going to get him?? You don’t seriously think that trump can hoodwink anything even close to 50% of all Americans likely to vote do you?? Seriously??

          If you do, you must think the American voters are nothing but complete idiots!!!

          • Guess you haven’t seen the rallies…..1000’s. Hillary 100’s. Typical ‘useful idiot’ standing around with your eyes wired shut.

            No, the liberal voter is a complete idiot. They are part of the Global collective.

          • Better read this article SUCKER and see if even you would vote for the Donald given the devastation that his nonsensical immigration fiasco would cause to America:

            See these excerpt from an article in thestreet.com which basically supports everything I’ve been saying about the enormous negative impact that trying to rid the country of immigrants would cause:

            Trump’s immigration plans cost him a handful of business deals, but they might cost the United States much more.

            The American Action Forum, a right-leaning policy institute based in Washington D.C., estimates that immediately and fully enforcing current immigration law, as Trump has suggested, would cost the federal government from $400 billion to $600 billion. It would shrink the labor force by 11 million workers, reduce the real GDP by $1.6 trillion and take 20 years to complete (Trump has said he could do it in 18 months).

            “It will harm the U.S. economy,” said Doug Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum and chief economic policy adviser to Sen. John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign. “Immigration is an enormous sourceof economic vitality.”

            The impact would be felt on both supply and demand.

            A number of industries that depend heavily on cheap immigrant labor would be devastated — especially agriculture. “There would be an abrupt drop in farm income and a sharp rise in food prices,” said John McLaren, professor of economics at the University of Virginia with
            expertise in international trade, economic development and the political economy.

            Companies that sell to the immigrant population would be affected as well, leading to decreased revenues for local businesses and a loss of American jobs.

            “Immigrants, whether they are legal or illegal, always spend a
            portion of their earnings in the location where they have their jobs,” McLaren said. “And in a lot of our urban centers, this is actually an important part of the economy.”

            He pointed to the case of Postville, Iowa, where in 2008 U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) raided a
            slaughterhouse and meat packing plant, detaining 389 undocumented workers (and jailing 300 of them). The raid caused most of the more than 1,000 immigrants not caught to leave the town of 2,300, devastating the local economy in the process.

            He also noted his own research, which suggests each immigrant creates 1.2 local jobs for local workers, most of which go to U.S. natives. “Obviously, those jobs would
            disappear if the undocumented were just yanked away,” he said.

            Trump has also discussed reducing the number of jobs held by legal immigrants, namely by increasing the prevailing wage requirements for H-1B visas (visas that allow U.S. employers to recruit and employ foreign professionals). The Republican contender’s thesis is that doing so would force companies to give jobs to domestic employees instead of
            overseas workers. The maneuver would benefit some, but not most.

            “If I’m an American software programmer, I probably would benefit somewhat from making it harder for highly-skilled software programmers from elsewhere,” McClaren said. “It’s really hard to argue that the country, as a whole, benefits from that. It would be bad for most Americans, and it certainly would be bad for corporations.”

            http://www.thestreet.com/story/13335121/1/if-donald-trump-was-president-here-s-what-would-happen-to-the-u-s-economy.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

          • LOL, we did just fine before this immigrant fiasco. We will do just fine when it’s gone. We do have immigration laws. All we have to do is enforce the laws on the books, send the vagrants home and we can get back to the good life we used to have.

            Trump is great at juggling money. I get it. I have been in business.

            11 million workers. He plans to bring the needed workers (mostly for agriculture) back on legal visas and green cards (that’s the way it used to be) and the rest of the jobs Americans do want to do will be filled by the 100 million out of work Americans. HB-1’s should be allowed in if there is a shortage and that is his intention. Let’s make it fair by actually having a quota and bringing in anyone who is smart with a brain in to work where it may be needed.

            How do you think we survived before this invasion? Just fine.

          • Wow!! You can sure pile on the horse manure. Nothing you posted could in reality ever come to pass. You clearly live in as much fantasy land as Trump!!

          • Alabama cracked down on illegals and had to reverse course almost immediately because of the damage to their economy.

        • Yeah. He’s on top. And you’re on the bottom. Face down, and too stupid to realize that Donald Trump wants to pump your rump. What a pair of dumba$$es!

          • LOL, your as dumb as a stump if you think we want to continue down this despicable road to derision, division, PC crappola, anarchy, disrespect of authority and poverty. No thanks. I’ll take my chances.

          • You’ll take your chances? What does that mean?

            In case you haven’t noticed, your Turd party and support for its contemptible ideology is waning. The “establishment” cons (those you refer to as RINOs) have finally arrived at the realization that the only hope the Republican Party has of ever regaining a modicum of respectability and seeing the inside of the Oval Office again, depends upon its willingness to throw a$$holes like you overboard. And since the GOP represents the aristocrats (i.e. the people who actually own and run the country), you can be sure that plans are afoot to do just that.

            And what’s going to happen to the Turd Party in that eventuality? My hope is that the movement will form its own party. That will be interesting for two reasons: (1) your Turds and your RINOs will forever be cutting each others throats over the Con vote, and (2) the whole world will finally get to see how many fools actually think like you do.

            Bottom line: The GOP “strategists” have presented the country a cavalcade of wankers from which to choose a presidential nominee. What a joke!

            I’m pretty sure that you and your Turd Party phuck-buddies are out of “chances”.

          • Trump claims at least $4B for his name alone. Yes, that’s what this narcissistic as shole thinks about his name, that it’s worth billions of dollars.

            As for his bankruptcy, once, twice, I can understand, but four times with the same type of business?? He obviously never learned a damn thing from his first 3 mistakes that he ended up declaring bankruptcy 4 times. He’ll never learn or listen to anyone else because he thinks everyone else knows less than him.

        • Yes, he used the loopholes in the laws to his advantage. You seem to miss the point. The man’s judgment is so warped that unlike his billionaire friends, he’s had four business misadventures that were poorly conceived with bad business models.This is a businessman whose grandiose ideas of great projects beg for failure. He doesn’t understand sound business goals, nor does he have astute financial plans, otherwise he would not have had businesses that teetered on belly up.

          • Ahhhh, I guess 10 billion is peanuts. Business people take risks and chances all the time. He just happens to know how to fix economic problems without blinking an eye.

            He’s already shown conservatives how he gets respect and makes deals. We love it!

          • Problems he created by injudiciously not doing his marketing research prior to building Trump Casino. That is the least of his poor calls. No billionaire today has had four corporations go bankrupt. He’s truly a record breaking wonder. As a successful businessman myself, I am horrified by his lack of judgment. And now he has come to a dead end in his business ventures as the banks won’t give him any more money and even put his personal finances on a stringent budget. Trump Casino was such a bad idea that it has gone bankrupt twice. 10 billion, you gotta be kidding. Forbes says it’s 4.1 and Bloomberg says 3.9. when The Don was confronted by the discrepancy he said that all billionaires in his class stretch the truth about their net worth. Get a life.

  3. The truth means nothing to Donald Trump. Nothing means anything to Donald Trump…except himself and his family. Donald Trump will never be president because I cannot believe that a majority of voters will ever accept as president someone so monumentally unfit and unqualified and who suffers from an acute psychiatric disorder: narcissistic personality disorder (look it up) which is the hallmark of tyrants.

    • ” I cannot believe that a majority of voters will ever accept as
      president someone so monumentally unfit and unqualified and who suffers
      from an acute psychiatric disorder: narcissistic personality disorder
      (look it up) which is the hallmark of tyrants”

      When did this conversation get switched to Obama? 🙂

    • I guess if you mean self-supporting and not taking a salary means narcissistic. I suppose I will take that over I can get away with anything because I am a PC president who has divided the country and taken it down the drain.

  4. There now… See how easy it is for him to back out from his wonderful promises. Once he gains that W.H. dunce cap, broken promises would come even easier. The national yell for this wanker should be, “You’re fired!”..

      • Dunce cap really?? In your dreams!!

        Obama has accomplished more the past 6 years than all the GOP presidents in office since Teddy Roosevelt combined!!

        • Seriously, I guess that’s why we are going down the drain. Hey genius, the GDP is barely above 0%. Over 100 million out of work. Largest amount on welfare ever. Vagrants coming in from everywhere. Outsourcing continues…. Abusing the police is now commonplace. Anarchy is in style. Yah, we’re doing just great.

          • No that’s something you should try. My parents were actually LEGAL immigrants. My father escaped communist Europe. My family lived behind the iron curtain. I have a friend who escaped communist Romania. We have a brilliant friend who is trying to immigrate to America LEGALLY. He’s doing a research project at Harvard. America is making him pay 10-20K plus 6-8 references if he wants to stay while the vagrants (dummies) just waltz in taking everything away from the tax paying public. No moron, I don’t need Fox news to see the real world. I am out in the ‘real world’ because my family lives outside the realm of the United States. Have you ever visited communist Europe before the wall came down? I rather doubt it. It left a big negative impression on this young kid. I saw true suppression. A place where people lived in poverty everyday (income equality by the way). Where you had to stand in line for food. Where affording even common items like clothing, cars appliances were beyond expensive. Where opening your mouth got you killed. Yah, ‘real world.’ Most Americans don’t even realize what that is because they have lived in the land of milk and honey all their lives. Obama has begun to change all that. Time to turn this train around.

          • Hardly income equality, because if you were a party member, you could get those things that were available.
            Waltz in and take everything? Like what? Welfare, ACA, and social security are not available to illegals. They have to take termporary jobs and move jobs and even residence often to stay ahead of ICE. You’ve been drinking deeply of the right wind Kool-Aid.

          • Dude, I live in Calimexico. I have worked in Agriculture. Believe me, I know what I see….LOL I think you need to stop drinking the Kool-aid and listening to false prophets.

          • Joe Schmuck just revealed that he is Otto Greif. LOL! Why don’t you just go by the name “sock puppet” you tool

          • Those 100 million jobs lost? They happened either under Bush or directly as a result of his policites. (Actually a silly number, because with 310 Million people, and not more than 200 million potential workers, that would make this recession far worse than the great depression, where at the worst one 1/3 were unemployed.

          • Noooooo,, they didn’t. What do you suppose happens when the populous has no work and the dollar devaluates? What do you think if the debt keeps increasing…..BOOM!

        • I was attending a lecture by a famous professor of history. They were discussing the Ancient Greek empire. I had a friend who asked if she could go with me. She squirmed, fiddled, and tried to talk to me. After the lecture she said it was sooo boring. I was fascinated. The less informed and poorly educated do not understand what they hear and read from intelligent sources. Of course the less intelligent is not going to recognize Obama’s intelligence.

          • It actually seems sometimes like conservatives are determined not to believe facts that they hear or see; and actually work at holding onto their totally misguided ideas and notions creating for themselves a world of unreality.

          • It would certainly appear that it’s being done on purpose by at least the likes of those who seem to be funding all the efforts to undermine our democracy with idiot court decisions like Citizens United and legislation in states that is working to destroy people’s rights to organize (destroying unions). People like the Kochs and Adelsons and organizations like ALEC and numerous Super PACs that these people fund. I find it hard to believe that the people directly involved in directing the many organizations the Kochs and Adelsons and some other wealthy Americans fund are not working to intentionally destroy democracy as it was designed and intended to work by our founding fathers.

          • And here’s an example of how they’re working to dumb down America in an article from today’s Daily Kos. It describes how Republicans in the state of Texas are working to keep people in Texas ignorant of even our nation’s history (keep in mind that a recent study by a survey group awarded Texas the distinction of being the nation’s least educated state):

            Texas Board of Education votes to keep college professors from officially reviewing textbooks

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/19/1452016/-Texas-Board-of-Education-votes-to-keep-college-professors-from-officially-reviewing-textbooks?detail=email

    • Hey, joe schmo (what an apt name for an ignoramus), I suggest that you actually read articles before you post your nonsense. There is a link to his previous article in this one but, of course, you missed it because you only read the titles and have move your lips to make them out (half the time I am betting you need the neighbor’s second-grade child explain to explain them to you)

    • If the wall comes then we should get you a one-way ticket to the other side, down in Tierra del Fuego—the cool antarctic air might rejuvenate your thinking process. We’ll pay for it—no need for thank-you’s.

      • Pay for it?
        When Mexican bandit, Pancho Villa, murdered Americans in Texas; President Woodrow Wilson ordered pursuit!
        Did Congress ever pay the award money?

      • So you want to build the wall in or close to Tierra del Fuego? That would solve the problem, by making all the Hispanics automatic US citizens.

        • You seem to have trouble understanding metaphors and figures-of-speech. That’s why so many Americans have trouble with reading comprehension. The Bible is full of metaphors and allusions. Do you read that Book the same way as you read my comment?
          By the way, do you know where Tierra del Fuego is?? If so, then it should be clear what my point is.

        • No let’s let ICE do their job, have flyovers over the farms when vans actually came onto the grounds and checked legal status (they still did this in the 80’s, I saw it because we worked in agriculture) Let’s allow the border patrol to check everyone. Let’s round them up. Can you imagine how much money the taxpayer would have in his pocket especially in states like CaliMexico. There would actually be jobs for citizens. What do you suppose we did before all the Illegals? America was much better off.

  5. Im a dem i’m only switching to vote rep cause trump said we are getting the boarder to keep the illegals out
    But if he cant do it then im staying home

      • Simply my ancestors can be traced back before the beginnings of the americas, what about yours maybe 2 or 3 generstions and with your white skin you claim this country is yours thats were your white priviledge comes into. My ancedtors built this, my country by slave labor and dont you ever forget it. Plus as all that we’re done for my country country you are so jealous that you try to destroy and kill out kids. Does that answer yout question. Thisnameinuse

  6. Trump is wising up on a lot more than the Great Wall of America. He is trying to control his temper, his childish mannerisms, and his immature bullish traits. What he is having trouble with is becoming familiar with foreign and domestic policy, articulating a message that resonates with the middle class, and looking like a statesman instead of a buffoon. He realizes that his celebrity status and his claim of being an outsider will only get him so far at a national level, and he is right. The problem for him is that there is nothing he can do to recover or remain relevant.
    Carson is facing a similar situation. The bizarre opinion he has articulated on so many issues may be inconsistent with his calm demeanor, but that is of little comfort for most mainstream Americans. Most of us are not going to vote for someone who he totally unfamiliar with domestic and foreign policy, or for people who blame the media about alleged propaganda when someone asks him a question about something of interest or that is relevant to his candidacy. That sunk Romney’s chances, and it is likely to haunt Carson as well.
    Look for Bush, Rubio, and perhaps Kasich’s numbers to start rising. The far right may be nuts, but the GOP establishment is not. They are not going to blow an election, and lose control of the Senate, by nominating someone who is totally unqualified for the Office of the Presidency. They also need someone who can help them offset Hillary’s female factor. That places Rubio as a strong candidate for the Nr. 2 spot. Needless to say, the rationale for that decision would be to split the Hispanic-Latino vote.

    • You seem to forget a president by the name of Reagon who had as little experience as TRUMP or Carson and was an all time great president. Do some research before you wave your banner. People are tired of the career politicians who work for rich business lobbyists!

      VOTE TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016

      • Ironic that you tell people to do a little research before “waving their banner”. Reagan ( you spelled it wrong) was the Gov. of California before running for president. And maybe you should look up a little thing called Iran-Contra before claiming that “Reagon” was an all time great president.
        You have little knowledge, and even less judgement.

      • Actually Reagan was governor of California and the President of the Actors Guild. That’s considerably more experience than either Trump or Carson.

          • Actually it is. But only a conservative wouldn´t understand the big difference because all he would think about is the dollar amount. IF you don´t understand my point, then that only goes to prove how clueless you are.

          • A governor has relevant experience in governing. Managing an enterprise that went bankrupt three times is not the kind of experience we need, and it is irrelevant to foreign policy and social matters.

          • ROLF !!!! Oh, dear me….. I certainly hope that was a joke. The alternative is that you may have a medical mental problem.

      • We agree on the dog lover part. Reagan did have relevant experience as Governor of California. His trickle down economic were a disaster. His economic policies brought the S&L industry to its knees. The national debt had to be raised 18 times during his tenure to keep up with the borrowing caused by his refusal to raise taxes to pay for what we benefit from. His demonization of government, while increasing spending on Defense, and engaging in questionable adventures such as the invasion of tiny Grenada and the Nicaraguan Contras affairs became a major scandal. His only claim to fame were his personal attributes. He had charima and exuded confidence.

        • A lesser trumped attribute of Reagan was that he could be trusted. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the masters in the Kremlin didn’t feel the need to launch nuclear missiles before we did.

          • The Soviet Union did not collapse because of anything Regan did, but because we managed to engage them in a decades long arms race they could not afford, and because communism is a failed ideology that is simply unsustainable. BTW, the Kremlin did not launch any missile before Reagan either.

        • He was an actor. His anti-government stance has been picked up by those who want to feel picked on by someone or something and the government is handy. We should be putting our efforts into making our democracy stronger, not trying to destroy it.

    • The more likely and politically astute solution to ¨help them offset Hillary´s female factor¨ is to make Nikki Haley the VP candidate. Not only is she female but she satisfies the GOP predilection for managerial experience of a governor on the ticket. I suspect the tix will be a Rubio-Haley one, orchestrated by the GOP establishment. Her role in the contest would be to criticize the Obama administration´s bureaucratic mistakes.

      • Nikki Haley is a strong contender for the Nr. 2 spot. Her role will be to split the women vote, and bring relevant management experience to the GOP ticket.

  7. Trump never stated anything that this reported Trump as saying if you watched the debate. This reporter obviously is a Trump hater talking trash. Trump will stand behind his promise on illegals in our country and will build the needed wall & secure our borders.

    VOTE TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016

    • Build the wall on whose property?
      Ever hear of Fort Montgomery?
      It was also known as fort blunder.
      Is there a wall at Trump’s TAJ MAHAL?

    • 1,000 miles of wall, or 2,000, there is still the problem that it will be ineffective. Unless it is garrisoned, coyotes will bash holes in it, dig tunnels under it, or airlift illegals over it. And, a wall would do nothing re illegals smuggled in through ports of entry, or overstaying legal visas

  8. When Mexican bandit, Pancho Villa, murdered Americans in Texas; President Woodrow Wilson ordered pursuit!
    Should Congress pay the reward money?
    Was Elian Gonzales an illegal alien or not?

  9. This is a particularly bad column. The writer never cites the exact quotes of Trump’s change of mind, nor does he even paraphrase the new statement. We, the readers, must accept it on faith that there has been an actual change of heart. Very poor journalism to say the least.

    • Before:

      RAMOS: How are you going to build a 1,900-mile wall?
      TRUMP: Very easy.

      After:

      Trump: As far as the wall is concerned, we’re going to build a wall. We’re going to create a border. [. . .] They built the Great Wall of China. That’s 13,000 miles. Here, we actually need 1,000 because we have natural barriers. So we need 1,000.

      These quotes were in my articles, above.

  10. Not mentioned in Mr. Trump’s digression into the Great Wall of China: it was built by slave labor. Many of the laborers who died building it (whether from starvation, disease, accidents, or murder by the guards) were used as fill dirt between the two outside casings.

    Perhaps this is how Trump plans to “get rid of” close to 12 million human beings (some of the American citizens, but them that is just a detail) in 11 months. Murder them and use them for fill.

  11. Still cannot comprehend simple things I see Mr. Author. It’s easy to see why liberals fail at so many things. What a shame.

    • Liberals fail at so many things??

      Is that why since 1900 Conservative presidents averaged paltry 2.6% annual GDP increases for America while Liberals governed such that America saw 4.3% GDP increases while they were in the presidency??

      And is that why since 1929, the stock market realized a negative net gain during the 42 years Conservatives were presidents but realized over a 300% gain while Liberals were in office?? Meaning if you deposited $10,000 dollars in Jan of 1930, that $10,000 would be less than $9,000 today if only the gains during GOP presidents were counted, whereas it would be worth over $300,000 counting the growth under Democrats.

      And is that why 3 Liberal presidents – Carter, Clinton and Obama – created 40 million jobs in America over 18+ years while 3 Conservatives – Reagan, Bush and Bush could only create a paltry 24 million in 20 years??

      Liberals have forgotten more about running a government than Conservatives will ever seem to learn.

      Here’s just a small graph that show the economy under every Democrat in office since Coolidge has outperformed ever Republican starting with Hoover.

      • Go shovel your crap somewhere else. It has nothing to do with peoples actual lives. The liberal brain is to thick to let real life information through. They just parrot the group birds words. In stead of spewing your crap to try to condemn the other party, why not use your energy to support your own candidate. Believe me, they need all the support they can get.

        • Oh! I see!! So you making an idiotic comment like “It’s easy to see why liberals fail at so many things. What a shame.” Is somehow supporting your clown show GOP candidates?? Is it??

          And since when are Republicans doing anything for peoples’ lives when they’re constantly working to pass legislation that tries to subjugate all women to their idiotic ideas of morality??

          Why don’t you go somewhere and pound sand!!! Or go back and play in your own sandbox somewhere!!

        • And by the way, when you’re talking about doing things for peoples’ lives, why don’t you spend a minute and try to figure out why the GOP is nothing more than the Party of Premature Death??

          Are you even aware that if you think of a way of dying prematurely, and you start checking statistics for dying by state – you’ll find that GOP governed states lead the nation in virtually every way of dying prematurely – and that includes auto accidents!!

          So if you’re so worried about peoples’ lives, why not go and figure out why people who live in GOP governed states live 2-6 years shorter lives than people who live in Democrat governed states!!!!!!

        • 1) The stock market is falsely being held up. Don’t know how much longer the feds can hold down the interest rates.
          2) GDP is barely above 0%. It has been all year.
          100 million out of work today.
          3) Carter, Clinton and Obama. Oh my, Carter had a very large deficit. Reagan brought us out of it. Clinton and Obama put us back into the drink. Carter and Obama have been the worst presidents in modern American history.
          4) Bush was a psuedo Republican. Basically a RINO:)
          5) Reagan is rated one of the most popular and best presidents of modern times.

          Sorry you wasted your breath.

          • 1. That is literally how the stock market was designed. If it doesn’t hold up there is a crash and recovery period. However there is very little indication that we are heading into an economic crash at the moment.
            2. GDP growth has slowed however so has population growth. It is expected especially after the recession of 2008.
            Sources:
            -http://www.multpl.com/us-gdp-growth-rate/table/by-year
            -http://www.multpl.com/us-population-growth-rate/table/by-year
            3. This is absolutely false.
            >Carter deficit: First year at $73 billion per year to $90 billion per year by the end of his presidency. Average Yearly deficit increase from Ford = +15%
            >Reagan deficit: First year at $144 billion per year to $255 billion per year by the end of his presidency. Average Yearly deficit increase from Carter = 183% increase
            >Bush deficit: First year at $376 billion to $347 billion per year by the end of his presidency. Average Yearly deficit increase from Reagan = +36%
            >Clinton deficit: First year at $281 billion to $133 billion per year by the end of his presidency. Average Yearly deficit increase from Bush = -38%
            >Bush Jr. deficit: First year at $421 billion to $1632 billion per year by the end of his presidency. Average Yearly deficit increase from Clinton = +1227%
            >Obama deficit: First year at $1619 billion to $326 billion per year to the current year. Average Yearly deficit increase from Bush Jr. = -80%
            As you can see you are spouting absolute bullshit. Republican presidents have increased the deficit much more than democrats have. In fact both Clinton and Obama have drastically reduced the yearly deficit while both Bushes and Reagan have done nothing but increase the deficit. Carter may have increased the deficit but it was far less than your Republicans.
            If anything your Republicans have done much worse than “the worst presidents in modern American history.”
            Source: http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebtanddeficit/p/US-Debt-by-President.htm
            4. He was a Republican and many republicans today still support his actions.
            5. Popularity does not make you right. Looking at his numbers Reagan proportionally increased the deficit the most 2nd only to Bush Jr.

      • I think PM is mentioned in the Bible in Matthew. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see and none so deaf as those who do not wish to hear. If you try t share a provable fact with them they are like children and yell bluh, bluh, bluh so they will not have to hear you.

    • If you weren’t such a dupe, you would know there are 1000 miles of natural barriers, meaning 1000 miles of wall, and 1000 natural barriers. It’s called topography.

  12. Look at the author’s name, Ali F. Rhuzkan. You’re a liar Rhuzkan. It would be a thousand miles plus the natural barriers that exist. Nice try liar, but no go.

    • 🙂
      Okay, so thats one “lie”.
      What about all the mathematics that he put down ? I don’t see you mentioning that ? Is that also a lie ? Or are you perhaps being a moron ?

  13. Anyone who dismisses an agenda due to it lack of specificity or improbable logistics is losing the argument. Same goes for someone that gets into specifics and details. It seems to me that in order to win a debate you must be able to adapt.

    For people with a lack of imagination let me paint a little picture for you…
    A virtual wall enforced with drones at 40,000 feet and armed with solar powered lasers equipped with ground penetrating radar would be very feasible in the short term and much less expensive than an effective physical barrier. Such aircraft could stay aloft for weeks if they even needed to. Anyone attempting to cross the border at non-sanctioned sections of the border would risk their lives in a very real way. Granted such a solution would be vulnerable to illegal crossings during bad weather as lasers would not be as effective at cruising altitudes. Still, such a solution would be significantly more successful in slowing the rate of illegal immigration than current policies and enforcement practices.

    • “Anyone attempting to cross the border at non-sanctioned sections of the border would risk their lives in a very real way.”

      American citizens live on those non-sanctioned sections of the border. Your idea is easily as goofy as Trump’s, and just like Trump your are ignoring the other mechanisms by which illegal aliens enter the country. 40% or more come here legally and overstay their visas. Before building an expensive wall or some loony gauntlet with drones, perhaps we ought to try to get a handle on that.

      • Paul, Eminent domain could be used to create the necessary border zone for Americans living too close. It’s used anytime highways and roads must be built, it’s obvious that it would also apply to building a border wall and exclusion zone.

        Getting a handle on the illegals over-staying their visas or not deporting themselves is a huge problem and not one easily solved. How do you propose we do things differently?

        Another way to solve it that no one has talked about is to make Mexico the 51st state. No wall or deportations necessary. Let the citizens vote and pay taxes, let them partake in the vast socialist programs they’re literally dying to try to gain access to.

        For anyone who is prone to arguing for the U.S. to become more godless and socialist than we already are how can you justify keeping people in need from sharing in the prosperity you now enjoy? For now, we live in a relatively free country and no one will prevent you from donating as much of your wealth as you want to the needy in Mexico.

        If Trump becomes president, and the wall becomes obviously not viable, the 51st state idea will come up, and it will be used as leverage to get mexico to help pay for and help patrol the wall.

        • Not to mention the technical feasibility of building and maintaining a wall down the middle of a river. We could build on our shore, except that would be giving away our land not to mention forfeiting prime boating shoreline. Or we could try what the Israelis do, build on the other guy’s land. Of course they do occupy the other country which facilitates that but also fuels the resentment that keeps the struggle alive.

          • We can build a bridge on our shore without “giving away our land”. “Prime boating shoreline” ??? On the Rio Grande?? I don’t think so.

          • DT talks about a wall, not a bridge. Build a wall down the center of the Rio Grande? On our shore, we give away our half of the river. Can’t build it on Mexican shore, as we don’t own that. Still a fantasy. You love fantasy, don’t you? Because they are so real?

    • Wow.
      How much do you hate “illegal immigrants” aka “other human beings”, that you would suggest killing them with drones without first getting an idea of their situation ? If you were threatened by “Terrorism” in America and felt you had to flee your country for safety, urgently without being able to follow Standard Procedures, would you not at least expect the border guards of your neighbouring country to hear you out before they – or their drones – shot you down ?
      Honestly, Trumps frankly stupid idea of a wall is better than your “Virtual Killing Ground” idea….

      • Laven, so what’s your brilliant solution? I have a few more ideas but I’ll see if you can come up with just one idea that would solve more problems than it creates in regards to the host of issues that illegal aliens impose on the citizens of the United States. If you don’t think there is a problem then you will have demonstrated one aspect of the problem.

        • Brilliant solution ? I don’t have one. But neither am I acting as if my personal opinions are actually Decent Solutions. Border control, the world over, is not an easy issue, and I dont know what the best solutions for each country is.
          I live in South Africa and we have illegal immigrants coming in from Zambia, Botswana and Mozambique. I dont know how to stop that from happening and I’m not pretending to.
          One thing that seems to be “true” though is that many things are made easier when done in the spirit of co-operation instead of “me vs you”. So, yeah, I dont have any “brilliant solutions” but I’m pretty sure that “shooting people with drones” is not ideal.
          Besides, by using drones you’re taking jobs away from Americans……

      • To be ruled by the heart in matters of principle is not a quality for which I have high regard. What’s so hard about coming through a normal border crossing? Your argument makes it sound like illegal immigrants just don’t realize they have that option. Obviously if you come across the border legally you would not be putting yourself in danger.

        • What is the reaction to the Central American Asylum seekers? They legally come to the border, legally ask for asylum, and are legally released if they have anyone who will look after them during the legal ejudication procedures. And most people lumb them in with illegal border crossers. It is the emphasis on illegal even when they are doing everything legally that is making part of the issue. Look at the opposition to legally cleared refugees. We already have an history of 750,000 refugees who went through the procedure, averaging 2.5 years, and and extra 6 months for the Syrians, now averaging 3 years of checking. And out of that 750,000, exactly 3 have done misdemeanors, and no felonies. with a record like that, and what is the cry? Keep them out, or what sounds kinder, keep them out until we figure out exactly what is going on. (But since the situation is fluid and changing, that still means forever, since we will probably never get beyond what was going on.

          • People coming through the border control checkpoints are not illegal immigrants by definition regardless of how people may “lump” them based on stereotypes. They’re not part of the problem unless they refuse to come to their own hearings and do not seek to become citizens.

            America has been accepting asylum seekers since her founding to the betterment of our society at large.

    • Laser shooting drones with solar panels… Very funny. There is one operational lethal weaponized laser in the world, and it needs a 8000 ton ship tier engine power to supply the required electrical energy to use it as a CIWS. Solar power planes don’t generate remotely that much energy. And mounting what basically is a CIWS would require a pretty large drone which currently we don’t have.
      And how is a CIWS tier laser going to penetrate the ground and hit tunneling immigrants? BTW, this system only have a range of 5 thousand feet, much shorter than your proposed altitude. And there are no other lasers out there as an alternative.

      You also do realize ground penetrating radar is at least at least a bulldozer sized device. And they are normally VERY close to the ground. How big do you expect it to be for it to detect targets underground from 40k feet?

      A drone you are asking would be more like a AC-130 with solar panels? You also realize you need powerful enough electrical motor to get that thing in to the sky. With solar panels. How many solar panels do you think such aircraft would need?

      At least the wall is plausible even if it’s prohibited expensive. This isn’t even possible with your given specifications.

      • I agree with your analysis.
        Remember the Great Wall of China? Only man-made object visible from space. It was specifically designed to keep out the undesirable Mongols out of China.
        Historians only agree about two thing about the wall: it was never finished, and it never kept out the Mongols (didn’t work).

      • Would anyone be willing to risk the crossing though once they hear such a system is in place?
        I never specified a laser system. I agree the High Power Laser CIWS System which is intended to be used on the TF-2000 class frigate and on Turkish airborne systems would be literally overkill for dealing with border jumpers.
        However a 10-15lb LRAD or Pain inducing directed energy beam could easily be carried by a drone.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device

        The tunnel detection could be done with something else maybe a network of land-based seismic detectors.

        It soesnt matter, my point is still valid. There are many ways to address the weaknesses of a partial virtual border. It doesn’t need to be inpenetrable to be effective at reducing the rate of illegal immigration. There is a cost either way.

        • We need a lot of gates so Mexicans can buy at Walmart. So families split by a border can visit, and we can export and import. The Chinese built the Great Wall. East Germany built the Berlin Wall. Israel built a wall around Ghaza. They all feature failure in common even with no gates. Easier, cheaper, and far less destructive of rights just to let them in.

          • Mexicans can buy at Mexican Walmart’s. Trump’s wall is going to have the most beautiful gate you have ever seen, but only those who are legal will be able to pass through it.

          • All those shoppers at Walmart are legal. And they are taking advantage of the fact that visitors can bring back a reasonable amount of stuff from another country without paying duty on it. And surprisingly our Walmarts are cheaper than any Walmarts in Mexico.
            You should appreciate we are making business and jobs for Americans while legally cheating Mexico out of taxes.

  14. Rather than build walls, hire illegal Mexican Mercenaries to patrol the border areas, with shoot to kill orders. Efficient, employs Mexicans. They can be supervised & led by retired US Combat veterans. A Win-Win situation.

    • Who can be fired the next time an Obola type comes into office.

      A wall is “concrete” and can’t be turned off.

  15. Trump finally talks about “Natural Barriers”. I assume he is talking about the
    Rio Grande. Half the border between Mexico and the US is the river, which also has two large reservoirs.

  16. Walls are so medieval, Why not instead have towers placed 10 miles apart (200 towers) equipped with all kinds of high tech cameras linked to a command center. Special helicopter units should be on stand by 24/7 ready to respond to any intrusion.

    • sure, and would you like to staff some magic unicorns with super patriot powers who can teleport Americans willing to work in the middle of nowhere to the border in an instant?

      You should also be aware that in all likelihood, 90% of “border intrusions” are not done by humans….but by Animals and Nature, so basically the alarms would be going off 24/7 because birds, coyotes, etc. keep crossing the border….well there goes that idea

      • With the right sensors and software it’s no big deal to distinguish between humans and animals; self driving cars can do that. Also, troops are stationed in the desert in the middle east, can’t see why that wouldn’t work in US deserts too.

  17. > “Hoover Dam — a project that, unlike Trump’s wall, has qualitative, verifiable economic benefits.”

    Are you suggesting there are no verifiable costs to illegal immigration? Because those future costs would be largely eliminated when they can no longer get through. That would be an economic benefit. FAIRUS lists the current net loss of illegal immigration at $114 billion annually. Hoover Dam only brings in a fraction of that.

    • Depends on what you count. Illegal immigration is definitely profitable for the government. They have taxes deducted from earnings, and they pay all sales and excise taxes. Social Security is collected and is never used. The only in passing use police and fire services that for everyone else’s sake must be provided to them. We also pay for schooling their children. But we don’t want even more dependents. They by law can’t collect any government benefits. They do use emergency rooms, but that is also to protect the general public. Even immigrants can’t collect any unemployment or any other government benefits for 5 years. Refugees are given up to 6 months support but that is minimal and is really true relief. There is a fee paid to non-profits for helping setting them and to learn how to become productive members of society. But that is just good sense as they often had to leave. And often as one I worked for, agreed to settle 200 families from S.E. Asia after Vietnam and our running. And with private funds they settled an additional 200 families. So that was a 2 for one sale to the government. Don’t get that too often.

      • The $114 billion figure from Fairus takes taxes and other positive contributions into account and still arrives at a net loss regarding the cost of illegals. I don’t know if it takes everything into account that you mentioned, but I just wanted you to know that the figure wasn’t some one-sided calculation that only looked at cost.

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