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Friday, October 28, 2016

For once, the Obama administration and the Romney campaign seem to agree: the mandate in the Affordable Care Act is a penalty, not a tax.

On MSNBC’s “The Daily Rundown” this morning, Romney’s senior adviser Eric Fehrnstrom — best known for his “Etch a Sketch” gaffe — was grilled by host Chuck Todd over Romney’s true beliefs on the individual mandate. Fehrnstrom talked around the point for a few minutes, but he finally relented and gave away the game:

FEHRNSTROM: The governor believes that what we put in place in Massachusetts was a penalty and he disagrees with the court’s ruling that the mandate was a tax.

TODD: But he agrees with the president that it is not — and he believes that you should not call the tax penalty a tax, you should call it a penalty or a fee or a fine?

FEHRNSTROM: That’s correct.

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Fehrnstrom’s statement breaks away from the Republican message on the Supreme Court’s ruling. Top GOP leaders such as House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell have (falsely) proclaimed the Affordable Care Act to be the “the largest tax increase in the history of the world,” and Romney himself stated that “ObamaCare raises taxes on the American people by $500 billion.”

Furthermore, Fehrnstrom’s concession that Romney does not believe that the mandate is a tax adds yet another layer of confusion as to what Romney’s position really is. Once again, the Republican candidate finds himself in a dilemma: he must align with the GOP’s right wing base, but he must also protect himself from critics who will point to his health care reform in Massachusetts as a tax as well. If GOP leaders continue with this line of attack, they will also have to admit that Governor Romney had raised taxes in the same fashion in Massachusetts.

Over the weekend, Rupert Murdoch suggested that Romney would not win the 2012 election unless he “unless he drops old friends” from his campaign team and replaces them with “real pros.” After his latest critical error, maybe Romney’s old buddy Fehrnstrom should be a little bit worried about his future with the campaign.

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Copyright 2012 The National Memo
  • BozoMustgo2

    The reliable etch a sketch at work. Mittens and his minions will espouse anything to get a chance to win the presidency. From looking at Mittens’ past you can glean from it he has no political compass just sound bites. If he does win by some freak accident you think Dubya was a loser this guy will out do anything he did. Our country will definitely go down the toilet while India enjoys the outsourcing of our government jobs and maybe our military since they would do it cheaper.

    • ace

      If ever a SOB will use every dirty trick they can find it will be TheDemocrats they are pro at it thank you .

      • rmarqua2921

        Could you describe some of those dirty tricks?

    • You can compare Obama to Bush all you like and Bush looks better every day . By every economic indicator so if you are telling me that romney will oput do Bush I say great . what an improvement over the EPIC FAILURE of Obama . The happiest person on Earth is Jimmy Carter . He thanks God everyday Obama is President for moving him into second place in the all time worst President list . By the way no one has outsourced more jobs then Obama ,and he is doing it with our money

      • JPS

        Do you honestly want to make comparisons between George Bush and Barack Obama? Do you really want to go back to the policies that gave us the worst recession since the Great Depression, a housing bubble burst that left 2.38 million in foreclosure, a Wall St. financial collapse that nearly destroyed the world’s economy, not one, but TWO of the longest wars in American history simultaneously and unpaid for, coupled with unprecedented tax cuts during time of war and oh yeah, 9/11 and it all occurred on Bushes watch. We lost 53,000 factories and 6,000,000 manufacturing jobs under Bush tenure, and we were hemoraging 750,000 jobs PER MONTH when Obama took office. Bush took a $128 billion surplus and turned it into a $12 trillion deficit. He took his eye off our enemy to go after WMD that never existed and declared “Mission Accomplished” nine years too early to the cost of over 4500 American servicemens lives and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead and the loss of bin Laden in Tora Bora. And then he had to audacity to cut taxes for the rich rather than pay for his wars, instead passing the cost on to future generations. A study of history instead of partying and cheerleading his way through college would have taught him that Rome’s caesar knew you have to raise revenues to pay for your wars. And there’s the debacle called “Katrina. While thousands were starving in a stadium in New Orleans, Bush was patting his Director of FEMA on the back congratuating him “for a job well done, Brownie.” And what other American president was so hated in the rest of the world that he had shoes hurled at him? So yeah, let’s just forget about 8 years of Bush policies that created this mess. Ignor it, deny it, it never happened. Republicans love to sweep it under the rug and toss the blame to Obama.
        Today the unemployment rate is down to its lowest level in 5 years (albeit needs to be better). 4 million jobs have been created. We have had 36 straight months of Private Sector Job Growth, and the best sustained growth in Manufacturing in 2 decades. GM is once again the number one car company in the world. Chrysler had its best profit in 13 years, net profit is up 300% in the 1st quarter of 2012. The Dow Jones closed over 13,000 highest since 2008, and The Nasdaq composite closed above 3,000 for the first time since December 2000. On the day that President Obama was sworn into office, the S&P 500 index closed at 805. It has now topped the 1,400 mark for the first time since the financial crisis began. (which should have Mitt Romney counting his dividends) One war is over and the other has a withdrawal plan, Al-Qaida is almost completely defeated and Osama Bin Laden sleeps with the fishes at the bottom of the cold, deep, dark ocean floor. The Afforable Care Act allows me to move from job to job without fear of preexisting conditions and allows my children to stay on my policy until they are 26. I’d say that been quite an extraordinary accomplishment.

        • Sweeeny

          Hey Michael Stoll. I’m a Brit but I love (watching) American politics. What I tend to see are rants from your side with most of the intellectual energy being expended in making up cute pejoratives (DEMONCRATS ) that add little to the argument but I guess that make you feel clever. I have no idea about the facts and figures stated in JPS’s post but they do look like they are the result of some research and not just a gut reaction to anything and everything that comes from the opposition. It appears to me that by coining the sneering ‘Obamacare’ you have created a legacy for your President which I am sure is not what you intended so maybe not so clever after all?. I do hope that what JPS is saying is correct as the world really needs a solid, level headed and prosperous America.
          As a bye the bye we have had and I think every advanced nation has an Affordable Health Care system of some description for decades. It would be interesting to offer the people a big tax cut in return for giving it up – I don’t think even our T-party equivalents would go for that. Anyway Michael I await your response.

          • Sweeny you seem reasonable ..while Bigspermaeter is calling names you can read my reply below . Thank You

        • Well said JPS. One caveat — those rich people who received the largest tax cuts from GWB were the only Americans to actually benefit from Bush’s unfunded wars in the form of war profits. Regular Americans only suffered from the Bush administration’s short sightedness.

        • Yes I will take Bush’s record of 70 months straigth of economic growth over Obam’a trainwreck of failed Policy . The only reason the economy failed in the last months of Bush were that the bill came due for the Sub prime housing debacle of Social engineering the Dems did ..Or do you think for profit banks like to write bad loans to people that they know cant pay them back …childishly naive once again . And just who repealed Gass Seagel

          • …rewriting history can be so much fun, eh Stool?

          • Sweeny I just posted the only facts that need to be stated up there . I can go into a hell of a lot more detailed explanation if you’d like . The “research ” you say he used are warmed over talking points he got from Joy Behar Steven Colbert and Misogymist Moron Bill Maher . Ok these people arent professional Political pundits but they are falied comedians who people like JPS get ” research “from . You can go to the NY TIMES of 9 /30 / 1999 for a detailed warning of how the economy was going to melt down and they are the most Liberal paper in America …Ok.. Or you can rely on the repeated talking points of comedians …just like Bigspermeater up there . Sweeny I can show you how deep the rabbit hole goes if you would like ….green pill or red pill ( Matrix refernce ) You arent going to find it listening to sheeple who are in a coma . You should do your own research . One other thing I don’t call it Obamacare . I rightfully and factually call it what the Supreme Court called it when they rewrote the law for the Democrats . They ruled that PENALTY FINE and FEE all MEAN TAX ..So I rightfully call it what most thinking people in America are . ObamaTAX .By the way Sweeny , this is the first time the SUPREME COURT has rewritten a law to make it ” Constitutional ” . What they are supposed to do, and have done in the past , is interpet what is given to them . In this instance Justice Robert rewrote the law and that was shown to be the case in the dissent opinion which pointed it out nicely . By the way, we on the right Sweeny , are not against the concept of healthcare . This is bill is not that . As I’ve illustrated in several posts up there , citing the Congressional Budget Office assesment , the WSJ , and the leading economist that have studied this law , that what it is , is Wealth Redistribution . It is going to Drain the Middle Class to pay for it . 77% of the collected TAXES will be from the middle class . These people are going to LOSE coverage while having the joy of paying for the coverage of Entitlement voters …That is from the Wall Street Journal ok.. they are the most trusted source for Financial info in the world . So you can trust JPS’s ” research” from Comedians or trust the Wall Street Journal.. or do your own research as I do ….Nice talking to you Sweeny seem reasonable ..If you like I can give you a solid foundation for your own research . As for Bigspermeater… learn how to spell before you try to insult those you know you can’t debate …You see Sweeny when the Liberals can’t debate on merit like Bigspermeater they try to debase by name calling and ridicule . It is right out of” Rules for Radicals” by Sal Alinsky noted Communist and master of Socialist manipulation …Nice try spermeater . And you notice I dont hide myself behind a symbol like Bigspermaeter ..there is a nice picture of me up there as I have nothing to hide

          • bigspender7

            Hey Stool Sample — did you just call me Bigspermaeter?

          • recognize yourself …you did

          • Actually that was for Bigspender so unless you are using two names it is for him but since you chose to call me a name feel free to go with it .

          • Wheres Anthony Weiner or Barney Frank when you need them …right

  • Tax vs. Penalty? This dispute is just one of semantics. Republicans want you to believe its not a penalty because they consider a “tax” to be the 7th deadliest sin. Plus they get to say that Obama has just raised taxes on the middle class (as if they care about the middle class).

    • ace

      And if Obama says it is a penalty he can not use it because Roberts said you could not use it as such idiot .

      • rmarqua2921

        Unfortunately, for the Republican, Roberts says the law stands! Obama can call it anything he wants, the ACA is law, because Roberts says so!

    • rmarqua2921

      Someone has said that a tax is money the government requires for you having done nothing wrong, and a fine or penalty is a TAX for doing something wrong. The point is who cares? ACA is law! The people who do not buy health insurance or make provision for it by 2014 will have to pay the government money! The Republicans need to be able to say that Obama created the biggest tax law in the history of the USA! So they need to call it a tax! The Democrats said it was a penalty until the SC said the law is constitutional if it is a tax! So the bottom line is the law stands. Bigspender is right, the Republicans are now in a bind! The Democrats can say that Romney created the big tax increase of any State in the history of the USA! Touche!

    • Uh er he did ..he just raised Taxes on the middle class . They will pay 77% of the cost of ObamaTAX ( wsj )..Just so Obama can give free stuff to Illegal Aliens and Victim Entitlement Voters ..You can call it semantics and Lie like Pelosi does but the Court rewrote the law for the Dems . In essnce they changed Fee Fine and Penalty to TAX so the only ones having trouble with semantics are Liberal Unicorn huggers who dont want the rest of America to call it a TAX …Obamaccare is now ObamaTAX …I hope you enjoy paying so Obama can get the support of Illegals and Lazy people ..Do you have any idea what this is going to cost you? If you like your insurance do you think you can keep it ? do you think if you work in the private sector ( which is doing just fine HAHAHAH) that your employer has more or less incentive to cover you now ? Lets see it’s 750 to 3000 to opt out for you company per employee and to insure them is going to be between 10 to 25 ,000 to start . That is the way your DEMONCRATS wrote the bill because they WANT your employer to drop you sheeple . You can then try to buy it yourself ..can you afford between 8000 to 25000 a yr ? Most can’t so you wont have ANY coverage but you will get tol tke a hit on your taxeds so Illegals and Lazy people can get some free shit from the rich ,,hahahah …are you rich ? Liberals they have no clue what they just supported

      • You aren’t keeping up with the facts. Only 1% are likely to pay the penalty, AND the low income people get a subsidy. Stay away from the GOP/FOX kool-aide.

        • Use common sense not talking points . Look at the breakdowns from the Wa Po the wsj even the CBO . Who do you think is going to pay it ? it is quite simple Companies will drop their coverage of employees ( middle class workers ) because it is better business sense to do so ( 750 to 3000 hit against corp taxes vs 10 to 20 k to cover employess ) ..the companies will drop employess coverage . the middle class employee wont be able to afford coverage at 10 to 25 k depending on family size . They will be penalized 2000 on thier taxes and STILL have NO coverage . Grow up get some common sense . Have you read the bill ? Seems I know more then all you Sheeple ..FOX must be doing me good . But that is nowhere near my only souce ..I’m on National Memo aren’t I ?

          • Justin Napolitano

            Michael, it is impossible to argue with a fool so I wont.

          • Yes so stop arguing with youself …I saw your classwarfare rant and you stating how the middle class has steadily lost ground . The U of C dept of economics study showed why . Taxes are the major reason and of course when you take people out of the middle class and add them to the poor entitlement class as Obama has done in record numbers well of course by comparison the middle class will lose ground and they will become a smaller segment of that argument . The middle class is losing ground because Democrat Policies aare making a lot more people dependent on Entitlements . Their are 40 mil fewer Americans working then there were when Obama took office . 40 freaking million less …these people are now poor . Bush didnt do that Obama did . that is why the middle class is losing ground . The other segment that is skewing your argument are the newly rich . Now if you want I will give Obama some credit for those people . And I bet you on the left probably resent these new wealth producers too because most of you lack a foundation on math and economics . to you people Solyndra was s ggod investment

      • What alternate universe are you living on? Your comments are totally fiction and nonsense. Calling the Affordable Care Act “ObamaTAX” will do nothing to convince people that it is evil.

        • So stating the same thing the Supreme Court said is fiction . What wonderful world of Unicorns Lollipops and rainbows do you come from . LOOK IT”S A TAX …The biigest TAX ever and it’s aimed at the Middle class ..get your facts right . America already hates ObamaTAX ..I have to convince no one . I do hope a few intelligent sheeple are waking up from their coma’s however because that $2000 penalty you are going to pay , not for coverage , but because you cant afford coverage will be greatly appreciated by the lazy entitlement voters and Illegals who will be gifted healthcare on your backs

      • Hey Stool — you make this up in your sleep? Or are you really this stupid.

        • Bigspender is that you Obama ? ..I know the facts scare and confuse you sheeple …The Name is Stoll …stupid sheep baaa baaaa

      • You seem to be an outhouse lawyer to me. I shure hope you are wrong about the companies dropping coverages. Many of the largests have long since dropped retirement insurance for newly hires. I agree that it seems that the Dems want to go to universal coverage. At least there would be coverage. How we can afford to pay for it is the question Only through higher taxes on those that have bennifited the most from the sweat, blood and tears of the poor working class. The hotshots that betrayed the workers of this country by globalizing every job possible and the filthy rich that incouraged them. How dare you lump all those that try dilligently every day to find work that can keep the rent paid and the lights and water on and suffer with dental pain with those that may be lazy and those that come here to try to improve their lives?

        • I see you buy into the ClaSSWARFARE rhetoric that your ruler told you to . Just like the communists fecal producers in the Occupy movement . When are you people going to grow up . Not all the rich got rich on the backs of the poor . Most worked hard all their lives . If you believe in the dream of Universal coverage that is Ok with me . To say we need to get that money from those who are already paying the bulk of taxes would cripple the economy and is childishly naive . Look the rich are leaving in droves due to Obama’s policy .There has been a 70% uptick in the number of wealthy people leaving and renouncing their US citizenship because of him . Who are you going to tax when they leave . Obama said only the rich would see their taxes increases for ObamaTAX already and he lied . 77% of the monies collected in Punitive traxing will be on the backs of the Middle class ( wsj in case you missed it ) ..Keep believeing the rich are evil hate and envy them ..Those are the people that are up at 3 Am going to work while most of you sleep …but keep believeing that they stole their wealth any of you sheeple work for a Corporation ? Have any of you ever been given a job from a poor guy on Entitlements ? Grow up and start being self responsible

          • Justin Napolitano

            What total BS Michael. The rich pay the most taxes because they have the most money. And please tell me how someone gets rich in this country without workers?
            Working people in the US have seen their earning steadily decrease over the last thirty years while the rich have gotten richer and richer.
            It is time to stand up for the working class and stop supporting the rich.
            As far as who employees the most Americans, it is small business, where the average employer earns, perhaps, just a few multiples of the wages of their employees as opposed to large business and the rich who earn 500 times what their average employee earns. Screw the rich they do no create anything but hate and discontent.

          • A lot of people become rich with no workers . They call those people Investors . Do you know the fastest growing group of new Millionaires . Teachers 12% of the newly rich come from Academia . Liberal Academia , do you hate and eny them too ? Do they have workers ? No they have a lot of extra cash and a lot of free summertime to learn to be investors . Ok lets look at the ones that do have workers . isnt it great that they have created jobs for these people and together the company prospered . In most companies that are successful that means a lot of employess become prosperous too . That is not getting rich ion the backs of your workers but they having jobs and you as the business owner sttering the ship to prosperity . Or do you think that the guy who has the dream gets the start up works it by himself to make his dream until he can hire others should just then give everyone an equal split just because they work for him >>>Naive chidish like Socialist

      • ord

        And you have no idea what you’re talking about. SIT down and read the entire bill. Maybe, just maybe, you might get a clue.

        • Justin Napolitano

          Ord, I read the entire bill, how about you?

      • Justin Napolitano

        Michael, please stop sniffing glue its is affecting your mind. If a business with greater than 50 employees decides to stop providing health insurance they must pay a tax that is not insignificant. Additionally, many of the employees may decide to leave and find other employment. This could be a real problem if these are educated and trained people. Don’t forget that workers consider health insurance, vacation pension and other benefits as being very important and any attempt remove these benefits will be detrimental to the company.

        • The Tax is WAY less then insuring their employees $750 to $3000 as opposed to 10 to 25K…get facts and stop sniffing yourself . As far as employees leaving many are leaving a job now to look for another hahahahah. not many . The Job Market is jammed with resumes . Dont worry as you note Co.s with greater the 50 employees will be making that decision moot as they will chop heads to get below 50 so they wont have to comply with this evil law. Just like Nancy Pelosi’a donors who got exemptions . By the way most companies have been cutting bennies since Obama took over just to stay in business and have you seen the exodus of people leaving ? You say taking beenies away will be detrimantal but poeple will still stay as there will be no available jobs . Especially with campanies laying off workers so they wont have to comply . I know two manufacturing comapanies in Illinois that are planning on doing this post haste . I’m not saying all Companies will doit but in initial survey done by Inv Bus Daily that was done last year 35% already have indicated they will drop coverage . It will be like a chain reaction as Companies see their competitors do it to be more competitive and profitable . Also when more and more are dropping there will be no company taking a loss just to try to lure talent when they wont have to . You peopel sound like none of you have ever worked in corporate America for sure

      • How do you know people are lazy? Also, if you have health care then you
        need to keep your opinions to yourself. This bill does not affect people who
        have coverage, only big mouth people like yourself who do not want the
        less fortunate to have any type of care at all. Its okay for Romney who is
        bi-sexual to call it a Tax in Mass but not President Obama or Justice Roberts.
        Unicorn huggers?? Come on give me a break!!!

  • daffodilly

    Is Dear Rupert saying the “real pros” know better how to voice un-truths? If nothing else warns against furthering Romney’s candidacy, the fact that he is receiving advise from the likes of Rupert Murdoch should send off bunches of alarms!

    • ace

      Well if you hadn’t seen that in Obama then you are about as smart as a turkey or just plain ignorant .

  • Yes, most Republicans believe it’s a penalty, just as the President says, because as a penalty the health care law is unconstitutional. To those who have already posted, you might want to read a little further on this decision by Justice Roberts. It isn’t exactly what you think it is.

  • petepeterpete

    Painted into a corner…by himself. Just what we need in the White House. Putin would eat him alive.

  • lmallak99

    Romney is a prostitute to whomever has the money this month. He’s just like our corrupt governor here in Wisconsin. These two have NO political compass, no sense of moral or values. They will change their mind as fast as the campaign donations come in. How can we trust someone who’s always available to the highest bidder? Guys like Romney & Walker are scary because they are such good liars you really can’t tell if they’re being truthful or not because they can fake sincerity so well.

    • ace

      And you are a liar + dumb AZZ period .

    • Thats funny considering that Obama is getting donations at a 3 to 1 clip over Romney from Big banking and even Big Oil .Which makes no sense as he has crippled their industry . But I guess they are afraid of his vindictive rule and punitive exile if he should win …just like a dictator or dear leader he rules through fear . By the way rahm ios doing much the same as emperor of Chicago

  • On Fehrnstrom – Obama has Biden as his Resident Village Idiot. Romney has Eric Fehrnstrom as his.

    On the ObamaCare Tax – Obama’s Solicitor General argued that it was a tax when he presented ObamaCare to the Supreme Court and Chief Justice Roberts agreed with him, but then again – what do they know.

    • johninPCFL

      That was one of the arguments. There were several in the menu for the SC to choose from. Roberts chose the one that was best for both his legacy and the GOP. If he’d called it a banana would you still agree with him?

  • The republicans have a lot of nerve… How do they call Obama a big government tax and spend when his record doesn’t support that?????

    • ace

      If you can not see that you are as ignorant as they come no wander he got in office ignoranc put him in there .

  • ace

    Both of them can say what they want but the court said it was a tax and if it is not a tax according to the Judge R oberts they can not use as it unless it is a tax but oboso will do as he damd please he is as Dangerous as any one on earth .

    • rmarqua2921

      He is more dangerous than the Chinese? He is as dangerous as Assad in Syria? He is as dangerous as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the leader of Iran? You have to be more careful, your intelligence is showing and trust doesn’t look good!

  • mavilasr

    Romney and company are so bent on defeating OUR PRESIDENT that he continues to talk against the President without letting us know how he will lead if he became President. Our entire nation will suffer immensely under an indecisive Romney. He speaks from both sides of his mouth. It is easier to criticize than to come up with concrete solutions to problems. We want real solutions not generalities in SPEACH!!!!! “WORDS, WORDS, FULL OF SOUND AND FURY SIGNIFYING NOTHING!”
    His excuse about the Romney-Care in Massachusetts is that –What’s good in Massachesetts is not good for the country.” What a poor excuse for someone who simply hates President Obama and care less about us and glorifies the very RICH who are contributing to his campaign. He calls this “Small Government.”

  • mavilasr

    You sound like Romney, the flip flopper and the extremist. Tell me specifically in what way Romney will help you. Oh! If you are among the very rich you may count your blessings.

  • Ibsyboy

    How embarrassingly pathetic the GOP is in their scramble to stay on that disastrous path they set on inauguration day. That is, to undermine the President in any way shape or form. They have missed opportunity after opportunity to show themselves as a Party that truly cares about the populace of the USA. A jobs bill coordinated with the Democratic Party away from the President would have shown they understood the immediate needs of the people. On the Immigration move by Obama re: young people brought here to the USA and have been contributing to the USA. The GOP, instead of trying to grab a piece of the action, continued down that lost road by criticizing it, and then wonder why they can not attract more of the Hispanic/Latino vote. And now on PPACA, they are gong to step in the same pile of doo-doo, and then look around and blame for the odor on Obama. It’s a traveling clown show, with no place to pitch its tent.

  • mavilasr

    You are proudly talking to yourself!!!! Such language simply remains with the person who utters it!!!!!!!!

    • In Case You Are —————– ! Just Keep Trolling Behind Me With Your Bullshit And You Are About To Be Served

  • mavilasr

    Again you continue to talk about yourself proudly!!!!

  • If The Koch Brothers Told Romney To Stab His Self In The Eye With A Rusty Fork Romney Would Do It , Romney Will Do Anything His Handlers Tell Him To Do That Includes Kissing Their Dirty Money Hoarding Asses At High Noon On Any Main Street In The USA!!!

    • Mr . Strip And Ship And His American Taliban Are Just Egg Sucking ,Chicken Stealing, Money Hoarding Gutter Trash!!

  • Anderson did the right thing to come out openly to show who he is rather than keep hiding himself. I want Republicans to realize that two things they are denial about are global warming and being Gay. In the future, many Republicans would come out the same way. So, people should get over it and praise Obama for every intelligent and bold move that he makes. Many countries envy America for having an intelligent president who is always ahead of the fray

  • I have never been so scared in my entire 76 years. If Romney wins, we ALL lose. It would mean going backward so far and so fast, it makes my head spin. Any progress we’ve made as a civilized nation would be gone. These MEN would be in your bedroom. In your inability to get a job, in your loss of health care….remember this for the sake of us all. But particularly women. They believe unfair pay for women is GOOD. they believe, shipping jobs overseas is GOOD. It is the route to Armeggedon. No, I’ve never been so afraid. For us all.

    • karinursula

      I’m 68 and I’m with you. I’m just as scared. Never in my life have I felt this way about any election. Even Bush did not scare me that much.

      • If Romney Wins There Will Be A Revolution Here In America!! Don’t Be Scared It’s Just Something That’s Been A Long Time Coming!! The Money Hoarding From The Koch Brothers And The Rest Of These Terrorists Has Got To STOP One Way Or Another!!

        • I don’t think we benefit from using the rhetoric of the right such as “revolution” from the outcome of an election. A Romney presidency is likely to have a similar effect on the nation as Bush did, i.e. a downgrading of our national standing and lowering of world prestige. The middle class will continue to shrink while the poor in America continue to sink lower into despair while the increasingly rich eventually realize there are fewer people who can afford to buy what they make. We can also expect to see a serious rise in crime as more and more people lose hope in our future.

          • This Is What I Hear So Let’s Not Try To Tell Fern Me What And What Not To Say Cause So Far We Have Been On The Same Page!!!

          • My Opinion Is To Get Everybody I Know Ready To VOTE!!! Let It Be Known That ALL ELECTION ARE IMPORTANT AND EVERY VOTE COUNTS!!!

    • jerrimyers

      Get your thoughts out to your friends and neighbors. Make it politically correct to get the facts out there. Donate what you can, work to get people registered to vote. and VOTE. It worked last time, and I’m counting on it working again.

  • middleclasstaxpayer

    Anything that costs EVERYONE money is bad for us in this economy….it doesn’t matter what it’s called…it’s going to take away income or savings that SHOULD be applied to better living standards, not government-mandated “spending.” It’s Unamerican!

    • johninPCFL

      Good thing it only costs those who choose not to be responsible for their own healthcare costs then.

    • There is a study that shows that watching Fox News makes you stupid. You need to change the channel. How can you have a better standard of living when you get laid off and you child has cancer. Maybe you find a new job but the cancer is not covered. Will someone tell me please: How did the meaning of Christian and American become not giving a DAMN about anyone but your sorry ass self. God bless America and please hurry up! These are some selfish, sick asses using your name for their own Bull Shit.
      Do any of you know who this ass Rupert Murdoch is. He would sale his kids for a dollar and is helping to destroy our country.

    • karinursula

      It is Unamerican to want health insurance? I believe it is every Americans right to
      have health care. I know of to many cases where middle class Americans where bankrupt because of high medical bills. You want better living standards tell that
      to the relatives of people who died because of no health care.

  • RodgerMitchell

    Who really cares? Tax, penalty, mandate — semantic nit picking.

    Unfortunately, the politicians won’t admit that the federal government, which being Monetarily Sovereign, has the unlimited ability to create dollars.

    Having that ability means the government doesn’t have to ask any one for dollars. It doesn’t have to ask you and it doesn’t have to ask China.

    This means, taxpayers do not pay for Medicare — not the current Medicare or the new Medicare. So the “tax, penalty, mandate” is unnecessary.

    The federal government simply should provide Medicare to every man, woman and child in America — and stop the ignorant haggling about tax, penalty, mandate.

    Rodger Malcolm Mitchell

  • Hope you have good insurance. If you have a child who gets leukemia, for example, you are in for losing your shirt the rest of your life. The same old arguments happened when social security and Medicare came along. Take either away from seniors and you will wish you lived in Russia.

  • Sure Just penalize us during the worst economic down turn since Jimmy carter. So if we make less than $250,000.00 were exempt right?

  • Liberals are comical ..who wrote this Misoynist Moron Bill Maher ? Joy Behar or one of the other uber talented profesional pundits er Comics the left gets their talking points from . Look Obama Told Stepahanienopolis that it wasn’t a Tax right up until he sent the Solicitor General in fromnt of the Supreme Court to argue that it was . The Mandate was listed as a Penalty a Fine and a Fee in the evil bill . By the way the bill is so good that evil rich Dem 1% er donors to Nazi Peolosi have all been given exemptions from it …Think a Republican Businessman can get one ??? But I digress .. Justice robert then rewote the law His own damn self to make the words fine fee and penalty mean the same exact thing as ObamaTAX . I wonder if that’s ever been done before ..A Justice rewiting a bad law to make it constitutional ?Anyway now that Obamacare is ObamaTax the Dems are running from it ..Oh by the way arent all Taxing bills supposed to originate in Congress ? And , wasnt this one originated in the Senate ? ..I know to Liberals laws and rules dont mean anything if you can pressure a Justice to rewrite a law for you and forget that pesky Senate thing ..right ? So now Pelosi who’s own constituents have been excused from the law says it isn’t a Tax so does Obama . In summation Joe Wilson was right , Obama lies . He lied to Stephanie and to America . Pelosi Lies , and she is shameless in doing so > Libs like sheep excuse this behavior from their shepards and rulers . Do you know who is going to pay 77% of the TAXES for ObamaTAX ..The Middle Class yo yo’s . ( WSJ) All so Obama can REDISTRIBUTE WEALTH in exchage for Votes . He will TAX the middle class and give free shit to Entitlement Voters and Illegal Alien Voters ( yes they vote in a lot of states I live in Chicago and my ex works as an election judge )Have a lovely Unicorn Lollipop Rainbow kind of day Sheeple

  • Who cares if it is a tax or a penalty? As far as I am concerned it is both a tax and a penalty. It will only apply to people who can afford health insurance but refuse to buy it. Maybe what we should do is simply allow hospitals to refuse to treat anyone who could have afforded health insurance but chose not to purchase when they had they had opportunity to get it or unless they have the money available to them to pay for the treatments right of their pockets. Simply put, if you don’t have insurance or some other means of payment available, tough luck, we just won’t treat you. Think about that type of penalty for not having insurance.

  • Mr ace what are U doing. U not make common sense or practical judgment of what U say.
    U real sound like one of those High School Bully with the name calling IGNORANT SMART AS A TURKEY, LIAR DUMB, AZZ PERIOD.

    My God man how old are U, I mean with these silly attacked.
    I do know a person with HATE normally talk that. They have so much Hate it’s like they been arsenic poison it slowly killing your mind body & soul. They don’t think right, say anything. Do wrong thing that will destroy them-selves.

    Just with Hate, If U don’t believe me ask Mr Zimmerman in FL

    • edwardw69

      He is paid to keep the argument going. Do not reply to him.

  • I don’t know how Obama wins on this issue. If it is not a tax, then Obamacare should have been declared unconstitutional. It it is a tax, then it is what it is.

    I think this is a debate that both sides should find too stinky.

  • karinursula

    Michael Stoll you are full of BS. You only pay the penalty of you refuse to buy healths insurance. Why would anyone want to do this? It also says if you are poor the government will help with the premiums. So middle class people really should have no problems with this, since I assume that most middle class people have insurance anyway.

    • edwardw69

      Don’t answer him. He’s a shill for the website.

  • lmallak99

    Michael, Beginning in 2014 there will be a penalty/tax which will only be charged if you: a) can afford, and b) refuse to get – health insurance. There will be exchanges set up where people can purchase more economical health insurance. The thing so many people miss is that we are currently paying, via taxes, to provide healthcare to the “lazy and the aliens”, except now we are paying much more for their healthcare because they usually cannot afford to see doctors regularly, which means that they wait until a health crisis to get care, which ends up costing us a lot more in the long run. The other current problem with health insurance is that the low-income have better insurance than most of those who’ve worked their entire life, simply because if they had to meet the same co-pays we do they would not be able to afford it, so there’s no point in giving them insurance. This is not a fair system. It’s one of the many things the Affordable Care Act is going to fix. Another big thing that I don’t hear anyone talking about is that the ACA will force health insurance companies to use 80 cents of every dollar they get toward actual health care. They currently average less than 40 cents on a dollar, the rest going to excessive compensation for executives, and the $200 million they’ve spent trashing the ACA. This will bring down the cost of health care considerably!

  • And India does it with a “head-bobble.”

  • Mr_Bill_of_Rights

    Forget mandate go to public option that Obama said he would go back and re introduce public option which he clearly not.

  • It’s a penalty for those individuals who do not have healthcare and want middle America to pay for their health care. Nothing in life is free, someone is always paying for it. Get over it, the opinion by the majority of the Supreme Court is right. The decision is good for America. President Obama represents the people of this country and not special interest. We put people in office because we want to be represented and our best interest first snd foremost, that’ why we voted for Barrack Obama for President and he will continue to be President for the next 4 years.

  • onedonewong

    The SC says its a tax the Solicitor General for Barak said it was a tax so why is anyone even bringing it up. If the Republicans pick up 4 seats in the senate and the presidency in Nov they only need 51 votes to eliminate obamacare. even if they don’t the chances of it receiving the funds Barak needs is zilch

  • greghilbert

    All the semantic parsing and spinning and jockeying is a disservice to the public, and that’s all most media outlets are dishing out. No wonder most Americans don’t know the basic facts about the mandate works, and how it may apply to them. Too few are making an attempt to educate them, too many are spinning, and too many are reporting the “controversy” over the spinning. A lot of confused people don’t give a rats-A what you call it. They want to know exactly how it will impact them. More facts please, and less about the controversy over the spinning.

    Dissing Romney is easy. Here’s a rare credible report of a fact from an MSM that ought to give pause to progressives being asked to get behind ACCROSS-THE-BOARD defense of Obamacare: “”In 2014, the penalty will be no more than $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. In 2015, the cap rises to $975 or 2% of income. And by 2016, the penalty will go to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income, whichever is greater. The dollar amounts for a single adult would be $95, $325 and then $625 during that same time period. The dollar amounts per child would be half that of adults. The penalty will be pro-rated based on the number of months during the year that you’re uninsured, although those who are uninsured for less than three months in a given year would not be subject to the penalty. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that roughly 4 million people a year will opt to pay the penalty instead of getting coverage.”

    While ultra-low-income folks will be exempt from the penalty, a lot of low-income people will be tax-penalized for concluding they cannot afford the much higher cost of health insurance,
    which cost would not spare them all out-of-pocket costs, not by a long shot. Obscuring such inconvenient facts lends credibility to wild distortions of other facts. I’d like to see MSM and non-MSM presentations of the complete set of facts shorn of partisan spin and industry spin.

    • petepeterpete

      Thank you and good luck in getting those presentations.

  • ckibbey80

    Romnney rarely refers to the middle class at all. All he can speak about is creating jobs-what kind of jobs? I have been hearing that for years, and I am yet to see any president create the 1st job…if anything, it has gone the other way. The only thing that HAS happened is the campaign ads have gotten nastier and full of bullsh*t. Can’t even the dumbest people among us see through the sh*t? I get sooooooooo tired of the same old crap, more of it, and a lot more flies! The GOP are so against the middle class, yet most of them ARE the middle class and don’t want to admit it…they have some nutty idea that they are of the elite and are on top of the pile. They better come back down to earth and stop cutting off their noses (or any other appendage) to spite their faces.

  • petepeterpete

    I read elsewhere that the Tea Party is now questioning if it is still possible to replace Romney. I’ve heard recommendations like Palin, or Brewer, or Bachmann. Great!

  • ridemybroom

    what it all amounts to is B…S… Somebody has to pay for the poor might as well be the 1% and thats why the repubs doesnt like this bill…..OB is gonna make the 1% pay for this…cant tax the way he wants to…guess what…the 1% is gonna foot the bill….

  • JPS

    You haven’t answered his question, just like Mitt Romney.

  • AlphaPlus

    Arguing over whether it is a fine or a tax is pointless semantics, just as pointless as Romney trying to establish a distinction between outsourcing vs offshoring. Euphemisms for the same thing. If you don’t have health insurance you will be forced to pay a [blank]. Insert your preference of label based on how you want to frame the debate: fine, tax, fee, dollar amount – it all amounts to the same thing people! If you don’t have insurance, you can still go to the emergency room and get treatment without being allowed to die, so you will pay for that one way or another rather than other people’s insurance premiums going up to compensate. The whole point of the mandate as it was originally proposed by Republicans is to make sure everyone pays into the system and nobody gets a free ride… But now that Obama has compromised with them and embraced the idea, it is abandoned as a conservative principle – that’s just disingenuous to anyone really paying attention with a modicum of common sense. The reason Chief Justice Roberts argued in his majority decision that the mandate is constitutional on the basis of the power of Congress to tax is because no matter what you call it, that’s what it amounts to. Whether Romney disagrees because it sounds bad or Obama disagrees because is politically poisionous to be associated with a tax, that’s what the Court recognized it to be, no matter what other label was stamped on the box.

  • When you don’t buy auto liability insurance that is required by the government and get caught driving an uninsured vehicle, you are charged a fine. If you don’t pay your required government taxes on time you are charged a penalty. Why is it that if you don’t purchase government required health insurance for your own benefit you are not charged a fine or a penalty but a tax? I don’t see it as a problem either way. As long as the proceeds from this heath tax, fine or penalty goes to offset the costs incured by the uninsured who are paying the tax, fine or penalty for the “benefit” of not having insurance when they need health care that is paid for by taxes, fines or penalies that the rest of us pay for.

    • The difference is that it is mandated by the State, not the Federal Government.

      BTW, mandated penalty or a tax, it “functions” as a regressive tax, which was the justification for the SCOTUS to rule that it was just that.

      Frankly, I don’t care. It is a tax that does *not* hit the rich. Or a penalty they will never have to pay. It *only* impacts middle class and lower class Americans.

  • Every civilized country in the world has a national health system, except the U.S. Everyone and I mean everyone needs health insurance. The problem is those that have a good job, a house, and a car, and they choose not to have health insurance. They can become ill, and are hospitalized for a week or so. Then when they receive the $100,000 bill, they just toss it away. This is what is killing the system. People like me have to pay higher premiums. Also, let’s say you’ve had insurance all your life, then lose your job, and because of pre-existing conditions, denied individual coverage, without any alternative. This puts people who have worked and saved all their lives into an impossible situation. Trying to pay for medicine that cost a small fortune every month and no way to protect against very expensive emergency care. The system is broke, and Republicans have done nothing except block solutions at every suggestion. Then they, (Republicans) do nothing to try to fix the health care problem. This is vital to the nation, and vital to the interest of all. In addition, this new system can promote entrepreneurship because people will no longer have to worry about being held prisoner from the company or large corporation they work for that is providing them group coverage. A family man becomes trapped in this prison, without the ability to take entrepreneur risks. Now he can, and we can begin to revitalize this nation and economy, and once again become a great nation.

    • So, those other countries that do not have national health care system are not civilized? That is what you are saying, is it not? Our system is broken. Some Republicans, just as you have accused, said it was not. But the system is *still* broken, and the majority of the Democrats now say it is not. And your point is? You are a walking talking etch a sketch reader. Whatever the Liberal Wing of the Democratic Party currently controlling that Party says, you are probably going to parrot just the words they tell you to, aren’t you? Tell me that the system is *not* still broken. I dare you to. Man, I wish Bill Clinton was in office instead. Yeah, he was a Democrat, but he was a reasonable one. He was a Moderate.

      I don’t care much for Romney — he is too willing to be Liberal on social issues that I disagree with. But I like Obama even less — who is Extremely Liberal across the board. The Federal Government is rapidly becoming too powerful and worse yet, abusive of that power. The National Debt has increased at the highest rate since WWII under Obama. Say what you want to when they give you your talking points. I can read the numbers right off the Government’s own web site and am capable of doing the math. It is ugly. Are you telling me that you are not smart enough to do the math? Maybe you don’t like the math — there are a lot of people that *hate* any math, and that does not make you a bad person — but this is one place you should figure out how to run the numbers for yourself.

      And in 2014, expect me and a lot of Americans to look at the cost of the “tax” or mandated “penalty” and figure what is best. It may mean getting catastrophic insurance until something happens that requires better insurance. In many states, there can be *no* waiting period for benefits, and now they will not be able to deny it. So, say my child needs an appendix out. I can get insurance in a day. Just like the mother, (who is doing what she feels she has to in order to support her family — I don’t hold this against her) who decides that she has to get pregnant in order to keep her Welfare Benefits, we will “game” the system. Yup, it is broken — you just can’t see it. Good luck trying to close that loophole. It will *only* screw over the lower and middle class Americans. And healthcare costs will go up at the same time they discover that ObamaCare does not fund itself, or more correctly, will not have succeeded in pushing the cost of supporting it over to the states. Most states are seeing the trap set by jumping into that “National Pool” and are wisely avoiding it. Without the states jumping in, and agreeing to fund that pool, it is going to become a nightmare. The real giggle is that the most “Progressive” States are more likely to have pressure to jump in, and the Liberals who push them there will, for once, be those that actually have to foot the full bill for their Liberalism! Better yet, those states will see an influx of people trying to take advantage of that system. The Blue States will become Bluer and Poorer and more heavily taxed. The rest of the Country will be able to see why, and hopefully will be smart enough to avoid it.

      God Bless America. Happy 4th of July!

  • Great job Mr. President!!