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Wednesday, February 21, 2018

“Who doesn’t have voter ID?” is a popular question asked by Republicans who argue that the ID requirement for voting is just a simple way to ensure the “integrity” of our elections.

There are many problems with that assertion — foremost: the integrity of our elections isn’t in doubt. The George W. Bush administration investigated the issue for years and found no evidence that voter fraud was being used to swing elections.

So why is the party that hates regulations in favor of a new, necessary government regulation on voting? Because of the answer to the question, “Who doesn’t have voter ID?”

That answer is obvious: People more likely to vote Democratic, something at least one Republican official has been willing to admit in public. And as they’re also disproportionately minorities, a federal judge has ruled that Texas’ law — which will accept gun permits but not student IDs — violates the now-gutted Voter Rights Act.

Getting ID isn’t simple, because it isn’t supposed to be.

In Pennsylvania, you need a birth certificate to get a government-issued photo ID. But you need a photo ID to get a birth certificate.

This is why the state’s strict voter ID law is still being blocked by the courts. But it’s also why Republicans won’t stop fighting to put it in the way of the right to vote.

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Copyright 2013 The National Memo

213 Responses to WATCH: This Is Why Voter ID Laws Are About Voter Suppression

    • EVERY EXCUSE liberals make on this is laughable… can’t board a plane w/o an ID, you can’t cash a check w/o an ID, you can’t open a bank account w/o an ID, you can’t get a driver’s license w/o an ID, you can’t even buy a cell phone (which even homeless people seem to have) without an ID. But we’re supposed to believe only liberal democrats are UNABLE to obtain an ID?? The truth is, once ID laws are enforced for voting, liberal democrats will start to LOSE ELECTIONS big-time, because of the long-standing voter fraud they’ve perpetrated upon us for decades. They KNOW THIS already, so are fighting hard to suppress these laws so liberal democrats will stay in power, and keep their supporters on the federal dole a little longer, while other pay the bills for them. They just love spending “other people’s money.”

      • ID also required for prescriptions at drug store as well a renting anything from automobile to hedge clipper. Hardware stores require them for buying fertilizer and certain chemicals.
        The moonbats are in a frenzy because one of their favorite scams is ending.
        This will be a factor as conservatives take back the Senate.

        • You are all DENYING FACTS, not excuses. We are talking about people who may have never had a need to board a plane, at least since 2001. I suspect you have a philosophical belief that people with these problems DO NOT DESERVE TO VOTE. The examples of private businesses requiring SOME kind of ID are bogus, because private businesses are allowed some leeway to NEGOTIATE. The new voter ID laws are not INTENDED to allow negotiation; they are purely zero tolerance.

          Do you believe that persons who were born at home and did not get a birth certificate are UNQUALIFIED to vote? Most likely your grandparents or great-grandparents would be in that situation today. In fact Jimmy Carter, whatever you think about his administration was THE FIRST PRESIDENT BORN IN A HOSPITAL; all the others before him would be, under newly enacted laws, UNQUALIFIED EVEN TO VOTE, much less run for any office. Even your idol Benjamin Franklin would not be able to get a voter ID today.

          Do you feel that people who were unofficially “adopted” at birth, and their birth was not registered by either set of parents, are too stupid to vote?

          Do you hold that having your birth records in a faraway state and not having the funds to visit that state to fight for your birth certificate makes you undeserving of the right to vote?

          It is the Republicans who are running a scam. If I were the sadistic type, I would love to see YOUR ID invalidated by some sort of technicality, and YOU unable to vote for your favorite wingnut. But I would hope you would be able to get the problem straightened out. After all, if the state decided not to accept your ID to vote, the car rental place and hardware store might quit taking your money.

          Watch the video again and instead of just blindly calling these problems “excuses” think about what YOU would want to happen in each of these cases. Actually take NOTES on each case and Google the state laws on these matters. If you were the attorney for each of these people, what would you recommend, other than “give up and be an unrepresented peasant for life.”

          • wow…nice come back. Here you have a perfect example of the difference between the right and the left. The right’s argument on any subject is name calling, over simplifying any issue and bad mouthing the other side. They can’t make an intelligent argument about anything so they resort to derision and name calling. I used to be a republican, I’m sorry to say, but now I wouldn’t vote for them if you paid me.

          • Dennis calling Bill Moyers to Goebbels just shows how ignorant these right wing trolls can be. Goebbels was a minister of propaganda for the Nazi Party who favored the “Final Solution”. Moyers is a host on a NPR show. How can you see the likeness. Whenever these trolls make this kind of comparison it shows their lack of reality

          • They both can be called ministers of propaganda..Moyers got his start as a political hit man for LBJ.
            He has become a 1 percenter in a career funded with government (your) money.

          • Get serious Moyer was the press secretary for LBJ for 2 years who was the president of the USA not the dictator of Nazi Germany. To compare Moyers to Goebbels is ridiculous, Goebbels was part of a regime that tried to extinguish the Jewish population of Europe. If you truly believe that Moyers and Goebbels are comparable then you are truly delusional.

          • have you watched the propaganda on MSNBC ? Lean Forward ? Lean Forward Comrades or as we like to say in the real world BOHICA

          • Stop with e comrade bs, this is a free country and you or I can listen to whatever we choose to listen to. Right wing radio or tv is not any different, it is pure ideology. If you think Moyers is comparable to Goebbels then you are delusional too. That was my issue with silence dogood’s comments.

          • .They are both propagandist. The comparison ends there. Although Moyers did some pretty nasty things when working for LBJ

          • Then your original comment was inaccurate to say the least. Goebbels was instrumental in implementing the Holocaust, Moyers didn’t do anything that would be in the realm of the Holocaust, did he?

          • If you are have happy with juvenile name calling then go enjoy yourself. Again you go with statements that are ludicrous. Why not debate a issue with facts not name calling. I read prior comments you,have posted and you fold when challenged.

          • Thats funny that you say that without being able to dispute a single thing that I have said on this topic . By the way I never fold and that is because I have courage of conviction and rely on facts and logic ..So debate away …I used Comrade to emphasize the propaganda that is on NPR …and if you look at the first choice of most Liberals as far as a TV Cable outlet … Well they usually get their misinformation from MSNBC . They have a show they call Lean Forward which shamelessly shows they are willing to use Obama’s own terminology to support his Socialist agenda . The Forward Slogan has been used by Communist Dictators Hitler and Socialists like Marx forever so that is where the Comrade comes in and is accurate . Lean Forward and BOHICA

          • I haven’t disputed any of your comments because I haven’t read them. You interjected yourself into a comment stream between silence dogood and myself. Do you remember that? Silence made a ludicrous comment that Bill Moyers was the same as Goebbels, the Nazi propagandist and supporter of the,”Final Solution”. It’s ironic that any radio or tv at you disagree with produces propaganda not the news.

            As for your facts I remember a few that you used in the Syria article – Bush invaded Iraq right after 9/11, in reality it was,13 months later. Then there was a term “acceptable democracy” that you never defined and later reverse your comment when I asked how Muslims who you claimed are low life’s would have created an acceptable democracy. You seem to delight in making up empty phrases like “tacit support” and using the to state your “facts”. By the way how come you hide behind an alias “bikejedi” and don’t use at least your first name. Then it dawned on me, you just a little boy who lives in a Star Wars fantasy world.

          • That’s what you get for thinking when you’re not used to it.
            But enough jokes. So why don’t you stop with your jokes about the non-existent “left”? Most of the people you’re talking about are probably moderate conservatives who actually care about the country and the Constitution. They only look like “the left” because they’re to the left of you and your fellows. But then, Barry Goldwater and John McCain are probably to the left of you as well, and either of them is a hell of a lot smarter than any of you (even though Barry’s dead).

          • Thats funny since our Community Organizer President has proven by the force of HIS words and HIS policy that if he had his way we would be a Communist State . Have you even read his book ? Of course it was probably ghost written by Domestic Terrorist Bill Ayres but he is a Conservative right ? I love talking to you Sand cat if you ever get brave enough to visit Chicago ( bring Kevlar and at least two clips ) lets have a beer …By the way if we can agree that Obama is left of Marx what would make all those followers who blindly support everything he does left right ? left right left right left… left right left right left ….one day your walking and your belt is too tight and your pants are too louse and your stuff is swinging from left to right…. left right left right left……

          • Sorry, but Obama isn’t even close to Marx, much less to the left of him, and that’s what makes a reasonable discussion difficult: the extreme perceptions that contradict the obvious facts. Obama may be to the left of you, but just being that wouldn’t put him anywhere close to where he really is, which is right of center on some issues, a bit left perhaps on the others, but all pretty close to center. On executive power, he’s probably more right of center than on others.
            I’ve been to Chicago; a pretty decent place, as cities go. In fact, it’s my cousin’s favorite city (I’m not a city person).

          • Wow you guys still trying to sell that Centrist soap ? Really even with all the evidence of his own policy and words ….No way he is a Commie and would prefers that form of Govt …Said so himself ….let me know when you come to the Chi and be careful out there

          • Thats a good one , I’m trying to figure out the correlation . I don’t think Jesus was a Comrade . I will tone it down for now however just because of the way you put it …TY

          • Liberal agenda propaganda? You are of course referring to NPR’s dedication to presenting both sides of an issue in a fair way.

            Don’t you just hate it, bikejedi, when the media won’t follow the right wing agenda?

          • NPR fair .ha that’s a hoot . Two years ago I was on a 6hr car trip with a PHD ex University of Chicago Prof of Political Science . He claimed that NPR was the most comprehensive and in depth news source out there . He claimed they were fair because they had David Brooks as a contributor ( hahahahah as if he is a real Conservative ) Long story short I brought up Fast and Furious to get his views and he knew NOTHING about that SCANDAL …Then I asked what he thought of Solyndra and he knew nothnig of that either . I told him he could learn more from listening to Rush Limbaugh in ten minutes then he could on NPR and then proved it . He now still hates Limbaugh but you better believe he knows about Solyndra …By the way Global Warming ( haha ) and the green agenda are two things he is passionate about . He knew nothing about Solyndra get it …yeah NPR is fair …what a hoot .

          • No negotiating needed as I rented a car from national chains (Avis & Hertz) more than once when I was stationed in Alaska and I could not have shown any license since I had no civilian DL until a few years later when my state finally passed a DL law. I also rented a semi-truck after I got out of the service and I had no driver’s license then (nor did anyone else in my state).

          • Where do you come up with the 1920s?? I was talking about after the Korean conflict was called for lack of interest. For that matter, Avis did not even exist before 1946.

          • When I was in the service it was a much simpler time and we were not even allowed to have a bushy or handlebar mustache let alone a beard or much in the way of hair. I had heard that submariners were allowed to have beards but I could not verify that since I never met any.

          • You would have not been mistaken for a terrorist back then, since most of those were where they belonged , sniffing camel pew…..

          • And then there was when I had a new 1966 big block Corvette roadster and I drove around with clean shaven, including my head, except for my handlebar mustache flowing in wind. Skin heads were unknown then and the females thought I was some sort of action movie star.

          • Plenty of REAL terrorists were burning crosses and wearing white robes and hoods. And in the ’30s there were even substantial numbers of AMERICANS wearing brown shirts and swastikas.

            And most of the Arabs (whom I am assuming you meant by “terrorists … where they belonged”) in America were peaceful American citizens, some of them even Hollywood celebrities. I can think of two: one who made you laugh for a decade as a corporal wearing dresses in the Korean War; and one who acted in, and produced, several long running sitcoms, and used his money to found a free children’s hospital in Memphis. And though they were of Arab heritage, they fit in with Jewish and “black” and “white” Hollywood people, and everyone else with no problem.

          • I have no personal knowledge of the submariner’s exception, but it seems reasonable, and an alternate-historical novel by an author with a very good knowledge of actual history mentioned this in connection with the submariner characters in the novel

            Before nuclear propulsion (most notable in the two World Wars), water, air, food and other creature comforts were in short supply aboard diesel-powered subs, and when submerged, electric power could not be wasted on ventilation. So the entire crew just went “grungy” until they returned to port. They were most likely required to clean up within a certain time after returning, and certainly WANTED to.

            In today’s nuclear subs, however, the almost unlimited electric power from the reactor, along with the heat of the core, allows recirculated air and water to be purified and sterilized, so that a mission can last six months or more without surfacing. This allows the crew to shave as usual (except the female crew members, which is another change), thanks to abundant clean water. The air is so sterilized that submarine crew members actually catch colds when they get HOME from a deployment! So that may no longer be true as an exception, although well groomed facial hair for ALL military units may be tolerated now (especially for religious reasons).

            I thank you for your service also, whenever it was.

          • Nice irrelevance. Obviously, you know you haven’t a leg to stand on, so why not just make random remarks expressing your general discontent with a country where citizens who disagree with you get to vote?

          • Not a very humorous topic, and your other posts on this topic aren’t very humorous, either.
            Show a little FAIRNESS and a little DECENCY, and maybe we’ll all laugh at your HUMOR.

          • Why, bikejedi, do you say that? I have stated instances from the 1950s through September 2013 where I have not been asked for an ID. The only place that I have had to show ID the last 5 years is at health care offices where they invariably greet me by name and then ask for my ID. On the other hand I currently cash checks at 5 different banks (National, regional, and local area) without having to show any ID.

          • People who are on business trips creating sales so that companies provide iPhones and condoms for all and to generate money to pay workers who can buy these things

          • Renting a car is something else poor people don’t do, and it is a profit-making business providing a service for which a license is required. No license is required to vote. But then, you know all that already, and how all your excuses are irrelevant. Why must we repeat them here.

          • We are now in the 21st Century, so you examples about Ben Franklin, etc are bogus. Most liberals use the excuse that many of their ilk are “low income” folks who can’t “afford” an ID. Well, these same “low income” folks are likely well qualified for Food Stamps & Federal WELFARE. It is illegal to cash a Welfare Check WITHOUT an ID, so how are these needy folks doing that, but at the same time cannot show an ID to vote??? Your excuses are INVALID in today’s world. ANYONE can obtain an ID today, ANYONE! But they may NOT want to show it when they are breaking voter laws by casting ballot multiple times, or for others, including dead people.

          • You still have not responded with FACTS regarding the specific examples mentioned in the video. Please tell me how an elderly person born at home who NEVER had a birth certificate can, in the state mentioned, get a birth certificate NOW. Especially note that in the first example, the man’s ATTORNEY cannot receive a duplicate birth certificate for him, only the man himself or his “parent or guardian” (he is 70 YEARS OLD, his parents have been dead a long time), WITH A PHOTO ID, which he does not have because he NEEDS the birth certificate now to GET the newly required photo ID.

            Also, you are ignoring the FACTS presented in the video that these states are now requiring NEW kinds of ID that have NOT in the past been required to get food stamps or welfare, and the legislators know very well that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get the NEW ID without documents that many voters of low income or poor health DO NOT HAVE, and would require TRAVEL to get, or because the births were not recorded, would be IMPOSSIBLE to get.

            These are people who have been voting for DECADES, in their own LEGAL names, NOT (despite your fantasy accusations) for “dead” people, when those documents were not needed. There is no way to go back in time and register a birth that was not registered (as you probably BELIEVE that Barack Obama did in his time machine), so these people, despite having a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to vote, will NEVERMORE be allowed to exercise that right if these laws are allowed to stand.

            If you are so cocksure that there is “no reason why they cannot get a photo ID” then why don’t you lend your assistance in helping a poor person in your state get one? Someone you know personally is NOT an illegal alien or otherwise unqualified to vote, and you know personally has NEVER voted for another or voted illegally, but does not have the “new” ID. I doubt if you KNOW anyone personally, or you would not be spreading false accusations and making up “no problem” criteria.

            ASK one of these people why they cannot get an ID, and what they do to take care of non-voting tasks without one (by the way, welfare “checks” are no longer CASHED in most states; they are loaded onto special debit cards that are not valid for welfare-forbidden purchases).

            You still have not shown me or the rest of the world exactly WHY the specific examples in this video are “excuses.” Do you think the courts would even be CONSIDERING these cases if the states could prove that these people have, or could “easily” get, the required ID? If that were true the states in question would just GET THE ID WITHOUT LETTING THE CASES GO TO COURT. No, they are QUITE AWARE that poor elderly people will not be able to get the new ID cards; that is EXACTLY WHY they wrote the new laws that way.

            Give me some FACTS, not Faux newz talking points made up by their “journalistic” shills. The video posted here HAS THE FACTS; get me some FACTS to refute them.

          • The other states are making it easier to get an ID, since the lame” can not find any. I would say all blacks or poor incapable of physically working, should be counted and votes placed on the Democratic side of the the voting count, since 99.9% vote D. They do not have to show up at polls. Problem over and executed with compassion.

          • What the hell makes you think you are so superior? It surely isn’t your compassion? Many of us vote Democratic because we believe in progressive causes. We have empathy for people that are not as fortunate as we are. We believe that all Americans deserve an equal chance and have the right to vote.
            I have no idea what you believe in except voter suppression.

          • Progressive ideas have created a subclass of people that are slaves to their dependencies, and are comfortable. They have equal opportunities but choose not to partake.

          • No Liberal can make an honest case why Voter ID equates to Voter Suppression and you know that . This is why it is just an excuse to scare low information people that somehow they would be excluded from voting , which they wouldn’t . Also it just show what you er um Progressives really think about the minorities in this Country . If I were a Black voter I would be deeply offended that people like you feel that I am any less capable then anyone else of getting an I D What do you think they are too stupid or lazy to get an ID ?

          • Very few people get cash assistance, but many receive food stamps. After your initial application process with the State for the Food Stamps, no ID card is required to redeem them at a grocery store. If your ID is stolen or expires you might be SOL if an election happens.

          • Once again, yes just about anyone can get an ID that will enable them to use the services they need to – but NOT the onerous requirements being enacted by Regressives. There are elderly who were born at home, who HAVE no birth certificate, and scum like Kris Kobach feel they should just be SOL.

          • What on earth does someone like you know about liberals? You clearly know nothing but what your own fanaticism tells you.

          • To all the hard core cult like followers of Obama who buy into this voter suppression BS . If I were Black I would be deeply ofended by the fact that you think that just because I am Black that I am any less capable of getting an ID . You need an ID to do anything today and if you get entitlements you have an ID . Third World country’s have Voter ID yet the Obama and the Dems dont want it . two recent polls done by Liberals show that 72% in one and 80% in the other support Voter ID . Why are all you hard core progressives so scared if it

          • There should be a minimum IQ required to post on this message board. If that were implemented most right wing nut cases would be disqualified.

          • You low IQ and low information butt must have missed the study done by the very hard core Liberals at PEW Research . From the Study done by Liberals it would seem you are wrong and it would be the Left Wing Cult Like Nut Jobs who would be disqualified . By the way you cant dispute anything I said can you ? So it seems you just don’t like and or want people reporting the truth and facts in their posts if it goes against your Liberal programming . So then you want to go the cheap name calling route and try to demean and debase someone that you cant debate …I see your Sal Alinsky tactic and recognize the intolerance of the left to any view that is different then what they feed you . Why are all you Liberals so afraid of Voter I D ? Hmmmmmmm

          • Yes there should be …have you read the very interesting study done on that by the LIBERALS at the Pew Research Institute ….judging by that study if what you wanted were true there would only be Conservatives posting

          • You’re STILL missing the point…..the outcry over voter ID’s is coming from those who “claim” that poor folks cannot afford one, as one example. But these SAME poor folks will likely qualify for Welfare, which requires an ID to get, and also requires an ID when you attempt to cash the welfare check. OR a bank account, which you cannot open without an ID. GET IT??

          • But not necessarily the ID the states are requiring, AND they will work with the elderly and the poor so as not to burden them with having to produce a birth certificate, which some no longer have and which COSTS MONEY. Not to mention that many states require a photo ID to get a copy of their birth certificate, and now the states are requiring a birth certificate to grant a photo ID. Oh, and not to mention that Regressive Party officials have actually SAID their goal is to disenfranchise voters likely to vote Democratic. If voter fraud was really a problem that would be one thing. Passing legislation to purposely prevent legal voters from voting in order to influence election outcomes IS DESPICABLE and DISGUSTING!! Voter Suppression and Poll Taxes ARE ILLEGAL!! GET IT???

          • One standardized, federal ID is required for all except Certainly all Blacks should be considered , ID’d as American citizens, since they all came over and or were borne/born here. Also somewhat jesting they should not even have to go vote, since they can be counted and votes placed into the democratic column, a constant in all elections, since 99.9% percent vote D.
            Problem solved. Whew!

          • If you could GET a standard federal ID to be established (SSN was NEVER intended to be an ID; it does not even include a redundancy check digit as all credit card numbers do), but the SAME ideology that wants to suppress votes ALSO conveniently believes in “states rights” (including the “right” to take rights away from some of their citizens, which a war was fought over) and in stopping the “overreach” of the federal government, and screams that having a federal ID is the next step to a Nazi style “show me your papers” law (which is OK if a state does it?) and will fight to the death to avoid letting Congress do such a thing.

            I got your joke about “automatically” counting black voters as voting straight Democratic. You yourself may be in a demographic group that consistently votes Republican (and so am I, or was until I lost my job too late in my career to get a new one and had to go on SS), but you would surely be insulted if an election official told you that you do not need to go cast a ballot, because we are putting you down as a straight R anyway. But considering that in the Southern states the “old Dixiecrat” ideology lives on in the majority of Republican politicians and too many voters, and the ideology has been “exported” by Republicans outside of Dixie, can you blame them? Would YOU vote for policies that took your tax money and gave it to the evil (subset of the) wealthy, while allowing the prices for everything you pay to rise astronomically and yet taking away BOTH the jobs that would keep you from NEEDING benefits, AND the benefits you need because you cannot get a job? Oh wait, perhaps you DO! Read “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” to see what I mean. Working poor black people are smarter voters, on average, than working poor white people, because they vote their own interest.

          • Not all states will work with the elderly and poor to get a birth certificate, or work very hard anyway, since the PURPOSE of these new laws is to prevent those people from voting. For political whitewash purposes, these states may have set up a “tiny” budget for state election officials to provide this help, but after the first 4 or 5 are helped, the money runs out and the other 295 are left off the voter rolls, AS DESIGNED.

          • Most of the outcry is from people who see that this supposed attempt to fight non-existent “voter fraud” is always accompanied by such other fraud-fighting measures as cutting voting hours, assigning precincts for minorities and other likely Democratic voters with huge numbers of voters, often several times the number in likely Republican precincts, with the same number of voting machines and no access or parking spaces, etc. Or maybe they’ve just listened to the sponsors and supporters of these bills crowing about how they’ll guarantee Republican victories.
            I’m sure YOU get the point all too well, and so do we. The difference is, you obviously want those Republican victories by any means necessary, and you’ve bought into the whole lazy “takers” mythology to salve what conscience you might have left.

          • You project your attitudes to others and that is not true. Most Americans only want a person to be identified to prevent voter fraud, there are many levels along the chain where security also can be breached…as insiders fixing the count. Are you against a Federal ID also, free of charge as like in SSN. with a PIX?

          • I would not be, but I guarantee you that the Tea Party fanatics and their political leaders are EXTREMELY opposed. The people who WRITE these “anti-fraud” laws (who work for ALEC, not the voters; state lawmakers copy and paste them into almost identical bills) SELL them to the majority of reasonable conservative voters as being against fraud, and they may have sold you on that excuse, but THEIR intent is to keep Granny away from the ballot box unless Granny has the wealth to live in a very “nice” nursing home, or better yet, OWN a nursing home. They only voice that intent in closed audiences, but it came out in a GOP gathering in 2012: “Voter ID laws, which will carry Pennsylvania for Romney, DONE!”

            A federal ID should not use the existing SSN, however; it was never designed to be error-correcting as credit card numbers are, so there is no protection against digit transposition or miscopying (look up “modulo-10 check digits” on Google for a full explanation). That is why it is illegal to use a SSN as an identification number, but everybody breaks that law now.

          • I don’t “project” the accompanying cuts to voting hours and other provisions designed to make voting more difficult for those less likely to vote Republican. And the “conservative” -i.e., right-wing lunatic – wing of the party which drives most of these so-called “anti-fraud” measures are the world champions of projection.

            I believe I voiced agreement with someone on this site who suggested that one be issued a voter ID free upon registration.
            I asked earlier if you and others were willing to support the Democratic proposals – which quickly died from Republican opposition and filibusters – which would have attempted to prevent those other security breaches you mentioned, none of which would have affected the ability of legitimate voters to cast their ballots as all or most of the proposals you seem to support would. None of your fellow voter-ID, one-man, one-vote colleagues have deigned to even answer. So what say you?

          • The attorneys who produced the video showed you FIVE (if I counted right) SPECIFIC examples of people who are TRYING to get the NEW voter ID (not the ones needed to cash a check, but the ones that their states are JUST NOW requiring to vote, but never did before). The have told us the SPECIFIC REASONS why these “former” voters, who still have the Constitutional RIGHT to vote, are being told they cannot vote.

            You have not shown ONE specific example of a person who participates in daily middle class life and HAS the voter ID needed, but “chooses” not to present it at the polling place in order to “vote for dead people,” only “rumors” and “everyone knows” and “they say.”

            You have not analyzed ONE of the examples given in the video and shown WITH RESEARCHED FACTS why these specific people should have NO TROUBLE getting their birth certificates. Why not do the credibility of your cause a favor and contact these people and SHOW THEM how easy it is? Because you CANNOT. All you can do is INSULT those who are having ACTUAL LEGAL TROUBLE getting an ID to which they are entitled, and laugh them off as not deserving any rights at all, much less the right to vote.

            When someone in a statehouse and someone in a banking company board office conspire to remove YOUR right to vote (there are conservative members of Congress and several statehouses who say the next step is to require ownership of property; which means that if your BANK wants to stop people in your neighborhood from voting, all they have to do is start foreclosure JUST BEFORE an election), then because you did not speak up when they came for the poor (mostly WORKING poor, by the way), elderly, disabled, or minorities, there will be nobody left to speak up for you.

            Show me ONE person in that video whose voter ID problem can be solved as easily as you claim. JUST ONE. And can the childish ad hominem attacks.

          • I guarantee that EVERY ONE of the folks in the video qualifies for & receives WELFARE….question: how do they manage to receive welfare, and how do they cash their welfare checks without an ID??

          • How do you know this about several total strangers to you in different states? Have you seen their personal info? Are YOU one of the NSA contractors who can browse personal data? Do you even know the NAMES of these people, or their ethnic backgrounds? The burden of proof is on YOU to prove that they DO have a way to get their voter ID (which, by the way, is now MORE restrictive in some states than check cashing ID), and you have not cited ONE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE. You have several specific examples which show specific people who CANNOT vote under their state’s new laws, who COULD vote before, and you are not even trying to rebut ONE specific case, because you do not have that information.

            You are living in a fantasy world in which everyone who does not agree with you is “on welfare” and “cheating the taxpayer.” You claim to “just know” that all “those people” do not deserve to vote, just as some fundamentalists “just know” that all Jews have horns, no matter HOW MANY Jews they meet who do NOT have horns (must have had them surgically removed?). Don’t bother to answer until you have EVIDENCE to show that ONE person cited in the video, according to actual FACTS, would have no problem getting an ID, and can explain WHY that person’s argument is fallacious.

            Your “guarantee” is as worthless as a “guarantee” that the Earth is flat unless you can show EVIDENCE proving that the EVIDENCE presented by others is false.

          • You obviously failed READING COMPREHENSION in high school. I did NOT accuse anyone of “cheating the govt,” nor did I disparage any ethnic group. If you watch your precious video more closely, you would discover that EACH of the featured persons was obviously POOR, and therefore it was postulated that they were unable to obtain a valid ID, the suggestion being it might be too costly to a disadvantages individual to do so. And I am sure if the ID were needed ONLY to vote, these folks would not go to the trouble & expense to obtain one. However, being poor & disadvantaged WOULD QUALIFY each of them for welfare. In THAT case, I am very certain that they would “find a way” to get the required ID in order to benefit from welfare payments each month, which probably are higher than the working wages that an unskilled person would earn. Very simple concept! It doesn’t take a wizard to understand it.

          • Being poor does not mean one is not working full-time. Face it; you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. All you do is voice your prejudices as facts.

          • And he insists his prejudices are true even when CONFRONTED with the facts of SPECIFIC PEOPLE who do not fit those prejudices. See my answer below (which I was just finishing when I saw your post).

          • Not only are you incorrect in stating that welfare payments are higher than an unskilled worker’s wages (not true in all states), you are STILL talking in generalities rather than SHOWING US how those SPECIFIC persons could get a voting ID, after their legal representatives have SHOWN they could not. Solve just ONE OF THESE SPECIFIC PROBLEMS given the data for that persons’s state in the video.

            If an emergency room admitted a dozen persons with gunshot wounds on a particular day, are you the person who would say, WITHOUT looking at their medical situation, that there simply ARE NO PEOPLE being shot, because you have an ideology that says people NEVER get shot? But the FACT IS that there are many people whose voting rights ARE SHOT DOWN by these new laws; attorneys and even state officials have looked at their situations and CONFIRMED that the new laws DO make it impossible (or far too expensive) for THESE people to get the new voter ID cards. The attorneys are in fact fighting pro bono to help these people, and they know the law better than you. The state officials that acknowledge these facts are actually GLOATING over their SUCCESS in stopping legally qualified poor, elderly, disabled and student voters from voting. These people are easily recognized by “common sense” as being citizens entitled to vote, BUT the new laws for voter ID, combined with the fact that their birth data was NEVER RECORDED or LOST by their birth states, and the requirements that their birth states impose in order to retrieve this lost data, make it IMPOSSIBLE to continue voting for ANY AMOUNT of money.

            So tell me, mctp, given this specific case: an elderly woman has been voting in the same state for 50 years; she was born at home in a rural part of another state, and moved to this state 50 years ago; her birth was not reported to her birth state’s health department because of her mother’s rural poverty; when she moved to her current state, affidavits from relatives such as parents, aunts, and uncles (who WERE alive 50 years ago but are not now) were accepted to get all the ID cards she needed then; she has been awarded a plaque for good citizenship because of her never missing an election; she is no longer driving (for the last 10 years) and thus no longer has a driver’s license; she has her SS card and her old voter registration card, but has not needed any PHOTO ID since moving into a nursing home, since all her personal business is done by mail or with the help of a nursing home employee (and the bank branch INSIDE the nursing home does not ask her for ID because they RECOGNIZE HER PERSONALLY).

            Now, her state has passed an “anti-fraud” law, and in order to get her voter ID card, which EVERYONE agrees she is legally entitled to get (no one questions her identity or citizenship), she must get a BIRTH CERTIFICATE from her birth state. But that state has NO RECORD of her birth. Therefore, she cannot get one. No exceptions unless her parents show up and fill out the forms, but they died many years ago. Now here is the question:

            Do you see any way this qualified voter could remain registered, given these situations, under the new laws you support?

            And the followup question: do you believe there SHOULD be a way to help this woman, and the hundreds of thousands in similar situations, to cast her vote in the next election? Or do you simply “not give a damn” if these laws disenfranchise thousands of legal voters to stop a handful of POSSIBLY fraudulent voters?

            And would you feel the same way if CONSERVATIVE voters were being suppressed?

            (and by the way, the reference to “Jews having horns” was an illustration of the way some people BELIEVE a general statement that is not true, EVEN when confronted with FACTS that disprove it; there are some people who are brought up in their churches being told that Jews have horns on their heads, and they are shocked when they find out it is not true; or they insist their original belief was true, and deny the evidence)

          • Your video used EXAMPLES of folks who purportedly could not vote under some proposed new laws. I ALSO used EXAMPLES to describe circumstances when the SAME SORT of folks might exert themselves and “find a way” to obtain a voter ID. Now, quoting YOUR WORDS–“some people BELIEVE a general statement that is not true, EVEN when confronted with FACTS that disprove it.” All this liberal talk about “voter suppression” is just that….talk. Yes, SOME folks might not take the time & effort to exercise their right to vote by NOT obtaining a voter ID, but I am still willing to bet, that when it comes to obtaining their rightful Welfare payments each month, the VAST MAJORITY of folks WILL find a way to get a valid ID, which could ALSO be used for voting. A simple statement of fact. Translation: people will do what they have to, to obtain what they need in life. Will all be successful…probably not, but I am betting that the VAST MAJORITY will, if it is important enough for them to do so.

        • Thanx, dogood, you have just reminded me of more places that I have never had to show an ID. I’ve never been asked for an ID at the pharmacy in 4 states and Lord, knows that I have bought many thousands of dollars worth of prescriptions over the years (the two years that my wife was sick it ran me over $200 a week). I have never shown an ID to rent a car nor to buy fertilizer (2 states).

          • Thanx ralpkr, you have just reminded me of one more place where you will be asked for an ID. All doctors offices will ask for one to prevent insurance fraud.
            For certain prescriptions you will always be asked for one.
            No leasing company will let you an auto without proof that you have a license (ID).Hence, know how to drive.
            ACE hardware has a LONG list of things you can not buy without an ID. They are required to retain copies of an IDs in case the FBI ever comes around. Serious penalties if they don’t.
            Hope your wife is better.

          • Thank you, dogood, my wife is feeling much better now since she died of a massive coronary in Feb 2005 (She had never shown any sign of heart trouble). Nothing to feel sad about since it was a good death as one minute she was making out a grocery list and the next second she was dead.

            The funny thing is that the personnel in the health care offices know me by name and have my particulars on file (in this area ALL medical records are stored electronically) but still need to see my ID.

          • You have said it best; “a good death”. That about sums up your compassion doesn’t it?
            Christ give me a break

          • Thank you for being so understanding, Justin. When you have seen the various ways death comes the way I have you would certainly agree that it was a good death. Far better than the death of a friend I watched being roasted to death by the fire in his fuel tanker or the teenage girl I found under a bridge after being called to investigate a bum. She was paralyzed but conscious and the rats had already eaten her eyes and some of her face. Did you know that rats shall protect their food source from anything no matter how large the threat is? After I shot some of them I was able to transport the girl to a hospital where she died 4 days later. I still wonder why I did not accidentally kill her with a stray shot and save her days of suffering.

          • Justin must be trapped in a large city that does not need hedge clippers. If you were 18, working and had a credit card…..they go together then You can rent a hedge clipper at Home Depot .
            and vote.

          • Illegals voting, and inside poll workers voting several times, the counting votes that are not secured,observed by reliable counters, remotely manipulating voting machines built by foreign concerns. There are several levels of security that can be breached.

          • Really? These things have happened? And to verify that, they have been successfully prosecuted? There has been NO evidence of any voter fraud that has influenced an election. Furthermore, many of things you mention won’t be helped by a picture ID requirement.

        • Some rural folk have nothing at all to do with what city people consider normal, daily behavior. I doubt that some of them would ever even want to vote.

      • Really, middleclasstaxpayer, you must be an extremely shifty appearing character if you have to show ID to cash a check. Personally, over the last few years I have cashed checks at 5 different banks (2 nationwide, 2 regional, 1 local area) and I have NEVER been asked for an ID. I got my first civilian Driver’s License after I had been driving on public highways in various states for over 10 years (my state had no DL until after the Korean conflict) and I did not have to show an ID at that time. The only place that I currently have show ID is when I go to the doctor. They great me by name when I come in the door and then ask for ID. At least they no longer ask for my Medicare Card although it took me years to convince the various medical providers that I had neither Medicare nor Social Security.

        • Your examples are bogus. NO BANK teller would cash a check for a STRANGER. Of course, if you have an ACCOUNT at the bank and are recognized, no ID would be needed. BUT, to obtain a bank account ANYWHERE in the US, you are REQUIRED to provide an ID & a Social Security number. ALSO:
          Most liberals use the excuse that many of their ilk are “low income” folks who can’t “afford” an ID. Well, these same “low income” folks are likely well qualified for Food Stamps & Federal WELFARE. It is illegal to cash a Welfare Check WITHOUT an ID, so how are these needy folks doing that, but at the same time cannot show an ID to vote??? Your excuses are INVALID in today’s world. ANYONE can obtain an ID today, ANYONE! But they may NOT want to show it when they are breaking voter laws by casting ballot multiple times, or for others, including dead people.

          • I have to agree that anyone can get an ID. For instance: A few years ago (after 911 when you had to check in 3 hours before your flight) my wife had flown to Washington to visit kid & grandkids. Our eldest daughter discovered that my wife’s DL had expired a couple years before (she had not driven for 6 years because of health problems) so they went down to the local DMV. They did not wish to issue an ID to a non-resident without current ID but our daughter brow-beat them into issuing my wife an ID so she would have no problem getting on a plane home. They had not noticed that my wife’s DL had expired when she got on the plane in California.

            When I worked at the Post Office I kept getting complaints about non-delivery of SS, VA, & Welfare checks as well as utility bills (the utility company envelopes looked like SS). Our inspectors discovered that people were following the mailman, stealing mail, and cashing the checks at two of the many check cashing facilities. Unfortunately, nothing could be done to those facilities who cashed the checks because they claimed that they had checked IDs.

            When I worked as a bouncer at a dive I often recognized someone I knew was well under 18 (drinking age in that state) but they had ID showing they were over 24. So yeah, ANYONE can get ID but there is absolutely nothing to keep someone from having multiple IDs and voting multiple times. Of course, people voting multiple times is nearly non-existent (Extensive investigation during the Bush regime revealed 68 times) but the real problem is voting officials stuffing ballot boxes with thousands of votes or “losing” those ballots for the “wrong” candidates and ID laws shall do absolutely nothing to deter those actions.

            Actually, the most important thing that banks, stock brokers, and other financial institutions need is SS or TIN number to open an account. In my case, I also had to let them photocopy and file my trust documents.

            Of course, I am not worried about not being allowed to vote because I am an angry old white man and the most that I shall have to show is my NRA membership card to be allowed to vote.

          • I find it interesting, Justin, that you consider being observant and having a good memory a form of imagination. Or are you a typical uber-conservative who refuses to be confused by facts?

          • Justin is a liberal for sure and he is angry at what a load Obama has become. Your experiences are refreshing true to life stories, unknown to Justin since he lives in a shell and MSNBC….LOOKING FORWARD, but caring little for the past and its teachings.

          • I did not realize that Justin is a liberal, InsideEye, and I must admit that I expected far better of Obama than what he has delivered and I am very disappointed that he has turned out to be just another establishment conservative when I was hoping and praying for another FDR or even HST.

          • Amen, two of the best men with conviction and they were correct. Obama could be ok, but he and his advisors are on a blind, revenge mission. I can fix it for him, along with you, he knows where we are. He falls into his own stupidity and will have no legacy because of his policies . …so I say. Obamas motives are not true and honorable for the US.

          • When the dust has settled history may well record Obama as the greatest American president of all times. This nation crashed and he kept it from becoming an economic bonfire. Oddly Jimmy Carter faced a similar crises. We had runaway inflation combined with a recession with military crises and Jimmy Carter kept us calm and steered the nation through that nightmare.

          • Exactly what are you questioning about ID’s? Liberals claim that requiring ID’s to vote discriminates against the poor, who cannot afford or obtain an ID. Yet these same “poor”, who will obviously qualify for Welfare, must show an ID not only to GET welfare, but to CASH their welfare checks. What is your problem with these facts???

          • What the heck is a welfare check? Don’t states use electronic transfers to bank accounts or issue a debit card these days? Why would any state waste money mailing checks?

          • Good point….many states probably issue welfare benefits electronically & directly to the recipient’s bank account, AND no one can open a bank account WITHOUT AN ID. Another way for any motivated person to obtain an ID, which would work for voting also.

          • I don’t know where you’re from, but most banks will open a bank account if you show them a utility bill with your name and address on it. You may need to do a little research on this with local banks before you try to “lump” them all into the same group. By the way, there are ALSO conservative voters who cannot get valid ID…’s NOT just Democrats that are having problems. I’m pretty sure you’d want to make sure that conservative people can vote too, am I correct?

          • Here’s my experience…..I’ve used the same bank for over 20 years (the bank name has changes twice, but still the same bank). Early this year I tried to open an account for my son. They insisted that HE come in, and when he did (with me) they STILL insisted on seeing his photo ID? I thought that was excessive, but they said that was the bank’s policy???

          • Homeland Security requires all hotels and motels located near major highways to accept credit cards only so that people traveling across the states can be followed if need be. Credit cards act as a very potent form of ID as they can tell the spooks all kinds of things about you and your activities.

        • If you live in any Major city you get asked for Id by your own Bank that you go into everyday ..Your examples are really bad . Why dont you just say that you like the current system better because it favors Vote Fraud and you don’t think your guy could’ve won without it ? What are you on the left so afraid of ?

          • You have a good point there, bikejedi, since I must say that I am basically a country boy and I have never lived in a major city. The largest town that I have lived in was San Diego, CA, and I am sure that that is considered a small town by those who live in NYC or the Los Angeles basin.

            Interesting that you must consider the TEA Party as a left wing party (the best example of voter fraud in 21st Century was the precinct that had less than 2K registered voters and turned in 3K votes for the TEA Party candidate). All you fascist right-wingers seem to forget is that only the wealthy (read GOP) voters have the spare time to vote many times while the poor (may or may not be Democrat) find it very difficult to find time away from their job to vote.

          • Are you seriously going to try to tie Vote Fraud to one of the groups asking and seeking for Voter I D ? Really …and maybe you dont know about all of the ACORN people that are in Jail for vote fraud or the 59 precincts in Philly without a singe Romney vote . Look it’s real simple …Third World Countries have Voter ID and we don’t . Not because the Majority of Americans don’t want it but ( because they do ) but because a very few hard core Obama voters are scared and want to keep Vote Fraud in place …Ask yourself WHY ? And is you lived in Chicago you would realize that you have your theory 180 degrees reversed . People who don’t work have all the time in the world to vote multiple times …The wealthy work for a living .

          • Your example of precincts in Philly not having a single Romney vote just shows that there are areas in Philadelphia with much higher intelligence and more common sense than the average US voter. By the way, where do you get the idea that third wold country people have ID. In most of them no one has any form of identification so their body is stamped with indelible ink (just like when you go to a club here) which keeps them from voting more than once.

            Your statement that poor people have all the free time in the world and wealthy people spend all their time working is extremely erroneous. When I was younger I was on the clock between 20 and 23 hours a day (I only got home to shave, shower, & bag a lunch) and the only sleep I got was on the sofa in the taxi dispatch office between calls. Most of the poor people that I have known over the years work from 12 to 18 hours a day and many of them work 7 days a week.

            I also know wealthy people and they range from some who have never worked an hour in their adult life (the truly rich) to those who work and may spend 12 or more hours from going to work till getting home but that often includes 3 or more hour breaks for meals (considered as working by them since they can write the cost off of their taxes).

            I have noticed over the decades that by far the hardest working people are those making the least amount of money, the second hardest working group are the middle class which, from your description, you must consider as “the wealthy” and the truly wealthy have an immense amount of free time (Remember that that is the group that travels to London to get a new suit or to Paris to treat the frau with a new wardrobe)

          • Wow so you have absolutely no problem with the fact that it is a statistical impossibility for that to happen ? That it was proof positive of Vote Fraud ? Wow and you infer the people who voted for Romney lower intelligence . Sweet Mother of Liberal Hypocrisy . By the way the study done by the Liberal Pew Research people showed beyond a shadow of a doubt who the better informed group is …Also the proof is in the pudding . You dumb asses voted for Obama and he made things worse from jump and then you were fooled to voted for him again ..he duped you unless you want to admit you voted for all of this ? It must be different up there in Alaska where you have almost no population but here in the Dem urban centers and Dem Ghettos none of the poor work while the middle class and wealthy support them all .

          • What planet are you living on? The US has seen a lot of improvement in employment and stock prices are are at a all time high. Home prices are recovering as well as the housing industry at large. The financial system is solid and companies have more money in the bank than in our entire history.
            Sorry that you are so uninformed.

          • Look if you drop the Labor participation rate to its lowest point in 40 years you can lower the unemployment rate …You do understand how that works right ?..How can you say we have seen an improvement in employment when we have fewer Americans working then when Obama took office and that is even with the greatest number of part timers in this Nations history ? Stock prices are being artificially inflated through the magic of printing digital money and investing that made up money in the bond markets . Do you understand QE 1 2 and 3 ? I will grant the slight very slight up tick in the housing market ..So sorry that you are so uninformed on the economy or just don’t understand math / economics on a very base level . You do understand how Labor Participation rate effects the Unemployment figure right ? If not let me know and I’ll explain it . So you either know that that figure is hooey and are willing to usurp your own ethics to spread a LIE for your messiah or you don’t know how that works . If it is the latter I will explain it to you so you sound the fool .

          • Sure if you like $4 /gal gas , Fewer Americans working then when Obama took office , the highest percentage of part time workers in our nations history , the lowest labor participation rate in over 40 yrs , less the 2% growth , the greatest number people in our Nations history who receive Tax Payer hand outs , the Middle East in the hands of Al QAEDA and the Muslim Brotherhood , Yeah Obama voters sure were smart hahahahahahahah…No what that 59 precincts represent is massive vote fraud K and the fact that you think it is funny shows the respect you have for your country …but its all good as long as the Communist Muslim won to you …right …

      • You sir are an ASS . These are people who have been voting for many years . In fact there was a woman in Pennsylvania’s Voters Hall of Fame which honors people who have voted in every election who would have been disenfranchised

        • That’s fine if you are well known. If not, you need ID, just as you would if you were cashing your Welfare Check, which I am assuming these “low income” persons are also doing. Remember, the opponents of voted ID’s claim “low income” types cannot afford to get them, or simply don’t have them (IE: Maybe don’t drive, etc), but they’d still need an ID to cash their welfare checks, or a bank account, which ALSO requires an ID to open at ANY bank. At any rate, your response is INVALID & incorrect.

          • Shows how much you know – you receive your benefits on a prepaid debit card. No need for ID or bank account.

          • You’ve OVERLOOKED the obvious…in order to QUALIFY for these government benefits, you need to PROVE who you are with a PHOTO ID. Then you get the debit card!

          • So in your state, all we need to do is acquire a Social Security number, anyone’s number, and show NO other means of ID, and we can start defrauding the system? No wonder our government is losing over a billion dollars a year thru fraudulent claims for welfare, food stamps, aid to dependent children, etc. Instead of the cash going to the truly needy, it can go to ANYONE smart enough (and devious enough) to obtain someone’s SS number, without the requirement to otherwise PROVE who you are?????

        • JSquerica how is that the case ? Anyone who has voted in all of these elections would want to get a Free ID ? She has shown the concern and tenacity to vote in all of these elections why do you think she would let a little thing like getting a Free ID stop her ? How do you know she doesn’t already have an I D ?

        • In CA, the voting process has become so damn cumbersome by narrowly defining who an undeclared voter can or cannot vote for, along with multi-level qualifications for those choices, I simply gave up on trying to figure out how to vote after getting lost in the bureaucratic multi-language instruction manual. The liberal-driven rules disenfranchised this voter. The rest got Nancy Pelosi.

      • Many people never fly, open a bank account or cash a check. That is not a requirement to vote. How about you shut up before everyone knows what an ignoramus you are?
        If the government requires a photo ID to vote then the government should make sure they help everyone get a photo ID at zero cost. Wouldn’t that solve the problem? Oh, I forgot, the ID is to prevent many people from voting. Well, you can stick it where the sun doesn’t shine, in your case that would be where your head resides.

    • You haven’t been to Kansas lately. I tried to renew my DL this summer in Wichita. This most populated city in KS has only one office to get your State issued ID. It is only open from 7:30am to 4:30pm Tuesday thru Friday. I arrived at 8am on a Thursday to get on the waiting list, with only 345 people before me. At 3:30pm there were still over 125 people ahead of me in line. Their waiting list does not carry over to the next day. That is unreasonable.

      • I agree. The squeaky wheel gets the grease! Keep talking about it, and getting that information out there! When were yo able to go back four your ID?

        • I am actually privileged to own a working car and be self-employed, so I scheduled appointments around my soon to expire DL. I went to a “DMV” in a suburb of KC and was able to get my DL/ Voter ID card after a mere two and a half hour wait.

        • In Kansas that (the DMV) is the same place you get your non DL State issued ID card. If you don’t have the money to pay for the ID, you have to fill out paper work with the SOS office and have a special approval letter from Kris Kobach, the author of our voter ID law.

      • That is a common right wing tactic. They deliberately create agencies with too few employees and employees who are too old or severely limited in their ability and top that off with a phone system that really could drive a man to violence.

    • Did you not read that to get a birth certificate requires a photo ID and to get a birth certificate requires a photo ID. Do you not understand or can you not read?

  1. Argument fail. If someone is too lame to get a photo ID, they probably don’t know who they are voting for. Why are they supposedly ALL in the Democrat party?

    • You know very well it is not a matter of “lame” (unless you mean physically disabled and unable to walk, which many people in this position are, which is why they are in nursing homes or seldom get out of their houses). It is a matter of income and/or ethnicity and/or circumstances of birth. If your birth was not recorded because you were born at home to poor parents in a rural area, there is NO WAY you can get a birth certificate now. If your birth was recorded in a rural county courthouse, but the record was lost in a courthouse fire and never sent to the new modern computerized state Vital Statistics bureaus when they were set up, there is NO WAY you can get a birth certificate now. If your birth was recorded in a family Bible that burned up when the Klan burned your house in the 1960’s, there is NO WAY you can get a birth certificate now.

      If the new voter ID laws were REALLY intended to prevent fraud, there would be some concession to these hardship cases, some way to petition the state to recognize decades worth of prior voting records, when a person has been known to people in the neighborhood for many years as an honest person and an honest voter, to get the new ID without the UNOBTAINABLE documents. But there is NO exception for unobtainable documents, only the assumption that if your birth record is lost, you “do not exist” (and please do us the favor of NOT existing as soon as possible, thank you), intended to deny the vote PRECISELY to people in these situations.

      And for many people of low income, the documents are PRACTICALLY unobtainable, because they were born in another state, and do not have the funds to travel to those states. And for invalids, such travel is not simply “get in the car and go” or even “get on the bus and go” because they must have nursing assistance at all times. For them it is “charter an ambulance (big $$$$ there especially for a cross country trip) and hire two paramedics and pay them to sit with you ON THE CLOCK in all the waiting rooms you will have to sit in” and still have money left over to pay the fees, and in some cases the CATCH-22 comes in and, even though your home state has the record of your birth, you cannot get it because you do not ALREADY HAVE the new ID that you need the birth certificate to get!

      YOUR argument fails because you equate being ignorant (which I assume is what you mean by “lame”) with being poor. Many poor people are smarter than you but never had your advantages, or their savings were lost due to medical bills, or because they listened to investment advice from people like you who turned out to be crooks, or because of the recession. Some of the elderly poor REMEMBER THE GREAT DEPRESSION and that gave them a good personal reason never to trust conservatives of either party again.

      • Outside of the immature and unecessary personal digs, this is the most sensible argument I’ve heard that doesn’t pivot around the lame-ass assumption that repubicans want to steal elections. Of course, this still won’t discourage Democrats from lavishing benefits and ignoring laws in order to gain votes.

        I will forever relate actual voter intimidation with the Obama-supporting Black Panthers slapping batons in their hands in front the polling booths in 2008, that the USAG refused to prosecute. And then there is the matter of ‘missing’ military votes in the ’12 election, and the bussing to polls for ONLY democrat voters or the union-led intimidations to vote Democrat.

        • “Assumption”? They have SAID they want to disenfranchise certain blocks of voters! But given the rest of your verbiage, I’m sure you choose to ignore that reality.

          • Thanks for the response, RToP. Please describe your ‘they’ that have SAID they want voters to be disenfranchised. While you’re at it, maybe you can ID the victims too. No one uses ‘verbiage’ with a straight

          • To give RTop a hand, from last year:

            House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R-Allegheny) suggested that the House’s end game in passing the Voter ID law was to benefit the GOP politically.

            “We are focused on making sure that we meet our obligations that
            we’ve talked about for years,” said Turzai in a speech to [Republican State Committee] members Saturday. He mentioned the law among a laundry list of accomplishments made by the GOP-run legislature.

            “Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it’s done. First pro-life legislation – abortion facility regulations – in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.” This, from a State House Majority Leader. I’d at least have a little respect for you if you had the balls to admit your real agenda, as he has.

          • One state house rep is The GOP. Got it. If i did the same assessment of all Democrats with Nancy Pelosi, well, you get my drift. Stereotyping does more harm than good.

          • One State House Majority Leader, who was ballsy (or stupid enough) to admit the REAL GOP agenda. Question for you. If you were a hard-core right-winger who wanted to disenfranchise the voters most likely to vote against your candidate, and wanted to do so without stating so, how would it differ from what the GOP is doing nationwide? “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck . . .

          • If I was a hard core right winger, I wouldn’t be concerned by speculations that the entire GOP is out to disenfranchise Democrat voters. Democrat leadership is doing a fine job of that by themselves. They’ve conditioned a public that is wary of how its leadership is handling the economy, jobs, immigration, foreign policy and especially the healthcare fiasco.

            Meanwhile, this Obama character keeps explaining how good Obamacare is by explaining how bad Republicans are. What a circus. What a clown.

          • First, while noting that you didn’t answer the question, the American public doesn’t need the Democratic leadership to make the public skeptical of how it’s leaders handle the economy, foreign policy, etc. Clowns like Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, et al do a fine job without any help. The real reason the Republicans are so desperate to repeal Obamacare, is that once it kicks in and people are enjoying the many benefits it will provide, (despite unceasing sabotage attempts) the Republican lies about the program will be exposed for all to see. The people who NEED explaining how bad the Republican party has acted during this administration, aren’t going to listen to him anyway.

            BTW, this “Obama character” is the duly elected President of the United States, elected by a popular vote of the American people TWICE. We put up with the unmitigated disaster of two Bush terms (and didn’t threaten to shut down the government or wreck the economy if he didn’t get us out of his fantasy-based wars), so, GET OVER IT !!

          • SoundS like YOU haven’t gotten over Bush yet. It’s been 5 years and you STILL bitch about it. But I admire how you deftly USE him an excuse for all of Obama’s failings. We didn’t miss Bush at all until we saw the replacement. Nice work. What was your question again? It got lost in your anti-republican rant.

          • I only mentioned Bush’s failings to contrast how the Democrats dealt with him like adults (as opposed to the behavior of the current House Republicans), though I could go on and on about the failings of Dubya. My question was:

            If you were a hard-core right-winger who wanted to disenfranchise the
            voters most likely to vote against your candidates, and wanted to do so
            without stating it, how would it differ from what the GOP is doing

            Waiting for your answer.

      • Also Alan, being disabled myself (and struggling daily to scratch out a living without sucking off the gov’t), I do not ridicule the disabled or infirm or weak or poor.

        I was able to get an ID, just as easily as getting a ride to the hospital, doctor, grocery store, etc. I do sympathize with the 17 people that can’t get a legitimate birth certificate. They should consult with the White House.

        • There are 18 people, Obama did not get one that is signed off properly. Very clever you are, about consulting the White House on having the tenacity to obtain an ID, no matter what it takes .
          Thank you for the humor there.

        • Neither do I ridicule the disabled; I also object to using the word “lame” to refer to allegedly faulty reasoning, or to someone who allegedly has faulty reasoning skills, as in your most recent post (“too lame to get a voter ID”).

          You seem to be a fair minded person, since you sympathize with the people in that video (who obviously represent many more), unlike SOMEONE on this blog who is CONVINCED that every one of these would-be (and former) voters is LYING, without posting any FACTS to show that even ONE of them is lying.

          If the actual intention of the state governments who passed these new laws had been to stop voter fraud WITHOUT “accidentally” disenfranchising legal voters, they would have done the following things differently:
          (1) passed the laws to take effect after a time delay of one election cycle (2 years) [at least Georgia got that one right]

          (2) adequately funded the agencies which would need to issue the new ID cards in addition to their normal renewal cycle and first-time driver traffic, and provided adequate offices and adequate hours to accommodate the traffic
          (3) adequately funded “outreach” workers who would take the services of their agencies to ALL invalid and homebound voters, some of whom are not as blessed with friends with cars as you are

          (4) provided alternative means of “grandfathering” (or more frequently “grandmothering”) long time voters whose identity, residence and birthplace/birthdate were never questioned, but who did not have their births recorded; except for a VERY few who may have been born just across the border in Canada or Mexico, then brought to Vermont or New Mexico as children, before we started recording those events efficiently, if you grew up in America over 60 years ago and have stayed here ever since, you are OBVIOUSLY a citizen
          (5) kept unrelated voting changes out of the legislation, such as closing Sunday-before-election early voting (more fraud on Sunday???), reducing evening and weekend early voting hours (less fraud during “business hours?”), dropping early registration by students about to turn 18, AND same day registration (so these newly “qualified” voters will in fact NOT be able to vote the first election in which they are qualified?), accepting gun-totin’ permits but not student ID as valid ID to vote, etc etc etc
          (6) to show good faith, they could have provided an indemnity payment to all legally qualified voters who could provide reasonable documentation that the state’s incompetence or malfeasance prevented them from voting even though they were qualified all along (a large enough payment to provide an incentive to apply for it, and incentive for the state to avoid being liable to pay it to hundreds or thousands of voters, say $100,000); after all, if the state unjustly takes away your right to vote, you should be compensated

          Since these common sense measures to show GOOD FAITH did not appear in ANY of the new “anti-fraud” laws, and since their advocates OPENLY bragged about having the effect of suppressing Democratic votes, there is only one reasonable conclusion: the combination of new, restrictive ID laws and lack of help to comply with them are part of a STRATEGY to bring about a partisan result and to reinstate Jim Crow even in states that never had Jim Crow.

          And the President is doing the one thing he can do: having the DOJ challenge every such law possible, based on the REMAINING provisions of the Voting Rights Act.

          By the way, I sympathize with whatever challenges your own disability is causing you. May you be able to continue to get the medical and rehab care you need, within your budget. And if you should need some help, you are not “sucking off the government,” you are accepting the help that members of a civilized country offer to one another (some of that help is rendered personally, some of it through institutions such as charities or taxpayer-funded protection). Bless you in any case.

          • Thank you for the reasoned and response Allan. Your suggestions seem reasonable and capable of avoiding any perceptions of despicable intent by either party of voter supression, disenfranchisement, or the prevention of voter fraud. Regarding the use of the term ‘lame’, this what I call myself when I make a preventable mistake. There is no intent to offend. But it seems our language is becoming so pared down for fear of offending someone that we’ll eventually have to return to grunts to communicate. At times, this is probably more effective anyway. Best regards.

  2. John : “people who do not vote should not be made to pay taxes”
    That is already the case, me thinks, since they are indigent.

    • Anytime they buy anything, they pay taxes. Even those who pay rent are often paying property taxes as part of the rent.

      • Yes I agree, it is the best type of tax, a sales tax of sorts…everyone pays. not only the Working Middle class, or ONEpercenters…EXCELLENT.

    • Really, you think that the only people who do not vote in
      the US are indigent? You think that indigent people do not vote? They are 60% less likely to vote than the most affluent – but they still vote. Do you have any idea how low our voter turnout is? It has been below 64% in every election since 1944. No insideEye you did not think nor did you do even the most rudimentary of research.

      • I do know how low turnout is, as everyone is reminded just after any election. Indigent, poor unable to afford transport or lack will power due to poor education , can vote by proxy. But many are not able to do so physically, mentally perhaps. So what is the point.

  3. Wow I just read through every comment on this forum and it is on a Liberal site . It would seem that even Liberals cant defend the practice of Vote Fraud anymore and that is because their arguments against Voter ID don’t hold water . It seems the very few people on here that still support Vote fraud are doing it out of propagandized fear that their side cant win without it .

    • Indeed it a rather devoid of liberals today. Maybe they are giving up on this voter suppression terminology. Liberals like to sound intimidating and appear to be compassionate be down for the cause. 47% of liberals are working for the government or are not working, …same thing….CBO stats. The others of us are supporting their life style…dependencies. It must stop already.

    • What voter fraud is that? Please post links to reputable reports of cases that were successfully prosecuted. I’ll wait.

        • Okay – how exactly does one example equal nationwide fraud on a level that requires such onerous legislation as to disenfranchise thousands of legal voters?

          • Voting integrity must be secured at all levels in the chain. There are others, you will not be satisfied. Everyone should have a national Federal ID, free….like SSN with a PIX. Are you against that also

      • Im not here to do your homework why dont you try a simple google search and enlighten yourself …Ill wait ..By the way I think we are up to over 32 members of ACORN who have been successfully prosecuted for Vote Fraud and then there is the Cincy Dem operative that plead guilty of voting what was it …6 times I think . Oh and she bragged about it and that is what got her stupid ass busted …If you have a Preezy and an AG that wont prosecute it or investigate it you wont find it .. Of course they have a vested interest in not going after their own people and shinning light on what may have been the greatest theft in American History ….As I said Ill wait .

        • First, you obviously have no idea what the majority of those “prosecutions” involved. Second, Nathan Sproul. Third, YOU claimed there is a “practice of Voter Fraud,” not I, so I have no need to “do [my] homework.” Fourth, if there was the slightest chance of significant voter OR election fraud on a level that would have impacted the Presidential election, the banks and banks of computer servers manned by conservative Obama-hating computer jockeys would have found it. Fifth,


    • I don’t know if it’s your analytical skills or your writing skills that are at fault, but NO ONE on this page has endorsed voting fraud. Only one side is using every political trick that the can to ram through these voter suppression laws. Who’s really scared? Why don’t you share your REAL agenda?

      • Stan even Liberal polls show that over 72% in one poll and 80% in the other want Voter ID . It seems the only ones that are still supporting vote fraud by fighting Voter I D are Obama and ” The Followers “. Even Liberals are giving up on that erroneous and fear mongering voter suppression argument as it doesn’t hold water . Many States have voter ID already and their has been no outcry that they are unfair . To suggest that it is voter suppression is to suggest that people of color are too stupid or lazy to get a free ID . it is insulting to African Americans and the only ones who support that position are Dems ACORN and Liberals …These are your friends who think so lowly of you ?

        • You should get out and read more. If you actually think that “Liberals” are giving up on fighting Voter Suppression, you’re completely uninformed. There’s Moral Mondays in NC, the DOJ is suing two states about it, and considering suing several others, and independent litigation is pending in nearly a dozen other states. There is plenty of ongoing outcry. Also, to my knowledge NONE of the states with these new laws (that were
          never deemed necessary until we had a Black President) give out the
          photo ID’s for free. Of course, since you only get your information from Faux News, I shouldn’t be too surprised. I really appreciate you being outraged for the “insults” against us, but it’s completely unnecessary. If you’re going to put your opinions out to the world, you should have at least a few actual facts to support them. Again, I haven’t seen any post in this thread advocating “Voter Fraud”. Apparently, like the rest of your Teapublican cohorts, it’s all in your mind.

          • maybe you should take your own lame advice and read more yourself . I know you just tried to play the race card but just like most Liberals you played it out of turn . Many States have had Voter I D laws for years before” our first Black President ” so your attempt to tie these efforts to the Tea Party and portray them as racist doesn’t hod water and is just fear mongering towards them . It only became an issue because our first Black President supports the idea of rigging elections and he has told the low information people that support him to just sell the voter suppression thing . Funny thing is that a lot of States have had Voter I D for years and no one complained about that ….Gee what are you ” cult like followers ” afraid of ? Are you afraid that you cant win a fair election ? If not then you should want voter I D ….Your just got served

          • Do you have any EVIDENCE that this President “supports rigging elections” or is this just your fantasy? Besides, it’s much easier to rig elections by SUPPRESSING voting by the people you do not want voting than to encourage large numbers of NEW voters to vote. Or just to rig the numbers being reported.

            And the voter suppression comes in because states that have had ID requirements that worked well for many years have SUDDENLY, in 2012 (after attending ALEC conferences and getting “model” legislation), decided that they needed to VOID all the existing cards and require NEW cards with NEW requirements to get them, and put these requirements in effect JUST BEFORE THE ELECTION. And they control the hours and funding of the agencies that issue those ID cards.

            Now that they have failed to get them in effect just before the last election, due to court challenges, they are rewriting the new laws to make sure that people in the “wrong” demographics CANNOT get new ID cards. North Carolina does not want COLLEGE STUDENTS to vote on campus, while making it difficult for them to vote in their parental districts. They are also cutting early voting hours down to almost nothing, and restricting voting by mail.

          • Allan I find you fair and so far a civil poster TY ..So heres my thoughts ….What evidence do I have that he supports rigging elections ? 59 Philly precincts without a Romney vote and no investigation ?…Yes I think that qualifies . Trying to fight Voter I D when even Liberals want it and most of America wants it ( up to 80% ) …yes I think that qualifies . Fighting against the Constitution that you swore to uphold particularly the 10th amendment …Yes I think all of that qualifies as proving that Obama wants to continue the practice of Vote Fraud and rigging elections .

            By the way considering the Liberal pressure kids get from their educators and the peer pressure they face on campus I think they should have to go off campus to vote . And the ones who always seem to get screwed especially by Illinois Dems are the people in the Military …in the last two Presidential elections they didn’t get their ballots in time to do absentee voting

          • Back to those analytical skills again. I never said that no state had Voter ID laws before the first Black President was elected. I just posted that there is significant pushback against the nationwide (wherever Republicans have a majority) attempt to impose Draconian Voter ID laws that are only one step removed from Jim Crow Laws of last century. As a matter-or-fact, the only real evidence of rigging a presidential election that I can remember is Bush in 2000.

            Your argument is completely disingenuous. If the Voter ID laws that worked for the preceding 200 years remained as they were, there’d be little controversy. But, once we had a Black President, (draw your own conclusions) almost every state legislature with a Republican majority suddenly became terrified of systemic voter fraud that has NEVER been PROVEN as actually occurring in ANY election. The REAL agenda is quite clear, to anyone with eyes to see.

          • Ok, so the 80 % of Americans who want Voter ID are just racist against Obama ? Who cares who is in office when almost all of America wants it ? And I’m the disingenuous one ? Sweet …Do you have anything other then the race card ? if you don’t look for Vote Fraud you wont find it . Tell me what are the odds that Eric Holder would look for it ? Obama ? Not happening right ? By the way since you brought up Jim Crow ….A Republican President , Northern Whites , and Freed Black men fought a Civil War against Southern Dem Slave owners to end Slavery . After that war that same Republican President gave Blacks the right to vote . The Dems responded with the Jim Crow Laws and by starting the KKK …Republicans voted overwhelmingly for the Civil rights act and the Dems filibustered it . Todays Dems have created new Plantations in their inner city ghetto’s . There they have convinced the Blacks that they are the party that cares about them . All the while convincing them to give up their freedoms and opportunities for a place at the Govt TIT … There they have been subjected to generational Poverty and no chance for an education in DEM Union Public Schools .However , they will receive a good liberal indoctrination . on these plantations they will have to traverse large swaths of gang infested turf .Meanwhile you have so called Leaders like Al and Jesse convincing them that progress is being made and that the Republicans hate them … All the while Black youth Unemployment is at an all time high under Obama 48% . Now ask yourself if white youth unemployment was that high do you think whites would vote for a candidate just because he were white . If they did so at over a 95% clip …Don’t you think they would be labeled racist for doing so ? You do realize that Dr King was a Conservative Republican and Kennedy would be a Republican today as well right ? Once again if all you have is the race card I see no reason to continue this conversation .

          • Your answer is so rambling, that it’s hard to know where to start, but I’ll give it a try. You’re dancing around the real point. Of course, the majority of people want voter ID, what intelligent person wouldn’t? The issue is the sudden demand for PHOTO ID, which for some reason, wasn’t deemed crucial until a Black Man was elected President (in landslides) twice. You say “if you don’t look for Vote Fraud you wont find it”. The problem is that the entire Republican Party has been looking for it for a decade, and hasn’t found it. Conservatives know that minorities, especially urban minorities, (strong democratic demographics) are less likely to have government-issued photo ID’s. Combine that with the blatant admissions of Republican operatives (Pennsylvania’s House Majority leader) obvious election-rigging (Texas, where a state-issued gun permit, is acceptable, but a state-issued college ID isn’t), NC where parents are penalized if students vote in the district where they attend college, and numerous other examples, the hidden agenda becomes crystal-clear.

            Everyone (except, apparently you) knows that the Definitions of Democrat and Republican have basically flip-flopped over the last 50 years. If you actually think that Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, JFK (or even Ronald Reagan) could find a position in THIS Republican Party, you’re delusional.

            You spew out a bunch of conservative catch-phrases, though I doubt you’ve ever seen an inner-city ghetto. You apparently want to blame all of society’s ills on the President, but hold the Congress (with the lowest approval ratings in history) blameless. If the Republicans obstinately block things that almost everyone agrees that we need, such as higher taxes on millionaires and billionaires, investment in our out-moded crumbling infrastructure, tax-relief for the middle class, just how far would any Presidential initiative targeted to addressing problems in urban ghettos get? Unlike the House Republicans (41 votes on the same thing, anyone?), our President is too smart to waste time and money on tilting at windwills. I, as I hope (probably naively) that every voter would, vote for the best candidate, regardless of race, with the best ideas, and with what I hope has the best chance of achieving their goals. In the 2008 primaries, Hillary was MY choice, but after Barack beat her, he was light-years better than anything the Republicans put forward. But, to get back to the initial point, identifying and fighting against a clear political agenda, is NOT “playing the race card”, it’s pointing out facts. The author is right, the majority of the new voter ID laws are just “Jim Crow laws” in new clothing, designed for the specific purpose of suppressing the minority vote.

          • If you really believe that there is some hidden agenda and yet acknowledge that most Americanswant Voter ID and ” what intelligent person wouldn’t ” ….then we shouldn’t be bickering with each other …You should be using your reasoned voice to sway opinion with your people and getting some real change . We should all be telling Obama and his admin we want a National Voter I D with fair standards for all . And if you cant afford one you get it free . Problem solved .
            That other stuff about Republicans really being Dems and vise a versa when it suits what you want is comical . Not only would all those you mentioned be staunch Conservative Constitutional Republicans but if you examine Kennedy’s policy and words he would be too . That is unless you think” Ask not what your Country can do for you but what you can do for your Country ” jives with todays Dems hahahahahah NO WAY …Todays Dems ask what they can do for you and steal money from the Tax Payers to pay you to vote for them ….No even today the Republicans don’t care what color you are we only care about Red White and Blue …Maybe instead of listening to Anti Constitution Dems you should listen to a man who served . Allen West …We don’t view it as White America Black America Hispanic America we view it as America . Conservatives think and advocate that all mentions of race just be eliminated . We believe in judging on the content of character rather then the color of skin . We believe that blacks are quite capable of getting a free ID and we believe that blacks are capable of succeeding without the Govt TIT .

          • From your reply, it seems that you’re possibly not one of the Voter ID proponents that has an agenda. If so, I apologize for my assumption, but still believe that you’re firmly in the minority.
            The timing, and proposed application of the Voter ID laws still point to the inescapable conclusion that the impetus behind the the aggressive implementation is a political one. I think that it’s much more likely that I could convince “my people” to accept a Voter ID policy that provides no-cost, hassle-free acceptable ID’s than that you could convince Republicans to provide a framework to actually implement it (with the same haste and vigor that they’ve exhibited in passing the laws). That would undermine the intent behind the examples that I gave you in my last post.

            I also have no doubt that the majority of ethnic minorities are capable of succeeding with the same government support caucausians receive (I’m sure that you know that the actual numbers of blacks and whites on welfare are approximately equal). I also believe that most of the people without photo acceptable ID are able to get a free ID, if it is truly free, and they are not deliverately hampered from procuring it. Finally, though we agree on some things, I can’t see how you could even imagine that JFK, MLK, or Abraham Lincoln would ever want to be a part of a party that would want to strip 40 Billion dollars of food assistance to mostly children, seniors and veterans, immediately after threatening to shut the government down to protect the tax breaks of millionaires and billionaires. I can’t see how you could ever imagine that JFK, MLK, or Abraham
            Lincoln would ever want to be a part of a party that would want to block the appointment of a (non-paid, basically Honorary) Scientist Laureaute, because, “heaven forbid”, he might talk about science. I can’t see how you could ever imagine that JFK, MLK, or Abraham
            Lincoln would ever want to be a part of a party that would want to further deregulate a banking industry that nearly brought this country’s economy (to be followed quickly thereafter by the rest of the world) to it’s knees. As I said before, I doubt that Ronald Reagan would feel comfortable with THIS spiteful, petulant, short-sighted, hypocritical Republican Party.

          • Ok maybe we are getting somewhere . I am quite certain that the GOP would back any legitimate Voter ID law . In the meantime I will use my voice to advocate for that and I would respectfully ask you to do the same on your people …See now if we were Senators we would be able to get something done I’ll bet . In the meantime let us fight for Term Limits so that in the future we might have Citizen Servants who go there to serve the people …Also as I said I will try to make it happen with people I currently know of all ideologies

            I also have no doubt that Minorities could succeed without the Govt TIT and that is why I advocate weening them off . Of course the Dems want them on that TIT as long as they keep voting D so you might have to convince your race hustling Poverty Dealers to actually do whats riigt for their Community …Kind of like what Dr Carson Allen West and even Bill Cosby advocate for not what Al and Jesse want

            On the other stuff I think we just disagree .. All those mentioned believed in Limited Govt the Constitution and Free Enterprise …The 40 bil thing is a budgetary issue and all of those people would’ve much rather have seen an America where we weren’t turning people into a permanently dependent victim class , that way that 40 bil would be a non issue

            I don’t know what Scientist you refer to but I hope he isn’t some whack job

            As for the Banks being the cause of the financial collapse that is a total canard . Look ,Carter told them to write bad loans to people that had no chance to pay them back .( Community Reinvestment Act of 1977.) It was a plan to buy supporters by giving them mortgages for homes they couldn’t afford on the backs of the Banks . The Banks balked from the start and when they were holding too much bad debt when Clinton was President they told him this would lead to financial collapses . They told him they wanted this practice stopped and then AG Janet Reno threatened the Banks with Fed Discrimination law suits if they didn’t continue to originate these loans . So now you and all the rest of the left think it is the banks fault . They warned the country Carter and Clinton and were told they had to continue to do it or else …Anyone with a brain a simple knowledge of math and economics could tell you it was a recipe for disaster ..In fact the NY TIMES ( Bunch of Liberals …) did just that in an excellent piece that for told the coming collapse way back on 9 /30 /1999 …but its all the greedy banks fault or is it Bush’s fault …yeah the banks just so wanted to write loans to people with no prayer of ever paying them back …what a great business plan that would be right ??? …And Bush made them do it right ???

          • Good luck on getting the GOP to go for fair Voter ID laws, they have a totally different agenda, disenfranchisement. I strongly disagree with term limits. By forcing people out just as they develop expertise, you greatly empower staff and lobbyists that AREN’T elected. We already have effective term limits, elections.

            I respect Bill Cosby and Dr. Carson (though I differ with some of their opinions), but I think that Allen West is a complete buffoon. The $40 Billion is NOT just a budgetary issue to the millions of women, children, veterans and seniors that use SNAP to subsist. The new, mean-spirited GOP is against ALL Welfare, without exception, except when it comes to Corporate Welfare.

            You’re misrepresenting the Community Reinvestment Act. NOTHING in it required banks to write mortgages to unqualified mortagees. A few Banks initially balked at implementing it, but then dived in head-first with exotic mortgages that had previously only been used by sophisticated investors, ARM’s, no-doc mortgages, zero-interest loans, etc. They then compounded this (to squeeze every dollar out of each transaction) with bundled, mortgage-based securities, which was the “straw that broke the camel’s back”, when the bubble finally burst. Even if we disagree as to the root cause, why not put in place effective regulation that prevents it from happening in the future? Or, we could leave it in the hands of the banks, who live to make profit, and have no incentive to “play it safe” , since if they do screw up, they get “bailed out” with the taxpayer’s money, with no adverse consequences whatsoever.

          • FYI. Since you’re SO sure that MLK would be a Republican, let’s see what he had to say about them, in his own words.

          • And even if they provided a “free” one, the voter still has to get to the office to be photographed, AFTER getting the birth certificate that was not needed when they were young, which requires a trip to their BIRTH state in many cases, but there can be no birth certificate issued if the birth was not reported, or reported to a local courthouse but destroyed before transfer to the state archives. And for invalids, the transportation often has to be by AMBULANCE, with nurses or paramedics accompanying their patient on visits to government offices, including being “on the clock” for waiting time. The total cost of getting that “free” ID for some voters may be thousands of dollars due to medical needs and/or distance to the issuing agency (e.g. born in Georgia and living in California).

  4. Voter fraud is not an issue.

    “Voter fraud cannot be widespread and undetectable” Colin Powell

    However, as long as states are not enacting this legislation to purposely sway elections I do not see a problem with presenting a Drivers License to enjoy our American rights.

    • And since they ARE enacting the pieces of legislation to influence elections, there is a huge problem. Party officials have actually stated that’s why they want to do it. Many Americans don’t drive, BTW. And to require them to pay for some arbitrary form of ID, particularly when it will cause hardships to obtain it or if they cannot – is a poll tax and it is ILLEGAL to do that to Americans.

        • Yes, it should. And the state officials should also not throw away those who cannot obtain a copy of their birth certificate, but work with them to use other forms of certifying that they are legal citizens. AND the states should refund the legal citizen for the costs involved in obtaining said BC if said legal citizen is able to obtain it. Lastly, the nasty business of enacting these suppression laws must be phased in over a period of years, NOT enacted & enforced with resultant confusion over a period of weeks.

      • I disagree with you. While I will concur that in some states this is a blatant attempt at influencing elections, I can tell you that in my state it was not.

        Some Party officials in crazy states have enacted this policy for insidious reasons. But that doesn’t mean it is for those reasons everywhere. If the state offers to compensation for those acquiring an ID, and if there wasn’t a dark plan to affect voting turnout would you change your mind?

        • Of course. But the law would have to be phased in over a period of years, it would have to have exceptions for people who cannot obtain a birth certificate (such as, a family bible entry or a relative’s attesting to the birth info), it would have to have easily-accessible assistance for those who don’t know how to order a copy of their BC, etc. AND it should work out reciprocal agreements with all 50 states such that documentation required by Oklahoma for a state ID would be sent free of charge by Vermont, for example.

          AND, those who ARE trying anything they can to disenfranchise voters would have to back the f*** off of trying to cheat. If they can’t win on the merits of their ideas, tough.

        • It would change my mind, IF there was a sincere, full-fledged effort to provide acceptable ID at no additional cost. Cynic (and realist) that I am, I don’t EVER see that happening. As I asked in earlier post: ” If you WERE a right-winger trying to disenfranchise the people who were
          most likely to vote against you, without actually saying so, how would
          it differ from what the Republicans are trying to do across the country,
          right now” ?

        • I wouldn’t because we enact laws to address problems.
          We do not need a legal remedy for a non-problem. When you can show
          me some reason why for the public good or safety I need a
          “particular” piece of paper to vote – then I might be with you.
          But as long as you are “safeguarding” elections from a nonexistent
          “danger” you should not be able to place an unnecessary onus on a citizen’s
          right to vote.

          • The reason you should show some form of identification is because election officials have no way to ensure that you are who you say you are.

            All things are not equal. Voter ID laws do have potential to divide, and be used for partisan advantage (see previous posts).

            Food for thought, do you think it is easy for election officials to prove that voter fraud is not an issue without being able to verify identity?

            I am perfectly capable of admitting that voter fraud IS NOT widespread. But I am also able to admit that without voter verification it is impossible to measure or detect.

            In my state voter ID laws are not divisive. Everyone who votes has them anyway, I think we lodged 30 provisional ballots in the entire state. If you want me to defend Texas, and Pennsylvania I will not. But in my state it was about strengthening voting, not disenfranchising people, and tone and narrative are everything.

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