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3 Insane Evangelical Theories About Why The Trump White House Is Imploding

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3 Insane Evangelical Theories About Why The Trump White House Is Imploding

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Reprinted with permission from Alternet.

The resistance has sparked endless right-wing speculation since Trump took office about who might be behind the movement. But with support for impeachment steadily increasing, many of the president’s die-hard supporters are struggling to explain the chaos that has engulfed Washington. And few are quite as unhinged as the evangelicals in his base.

Here are three of their more insane theories about why the Trump White House is imploding.

1. Jim Bakker, televangelist

In an interview with Steve Strang of Charisma News on Thursday, Bakker warned of an assassination attempt against Trump, given that “the apocalypse has already begun.”

“There’s going to be an attempt on our president’s life very soon,” he stated. “The world is marching in the streets against our president, and it is a war.”

“This is the first horse of the apocalypse,” Bakker promised. “The apocalypse has already begun.”

According to Bakker, Trump’s opposition is “the spirit of the Antichrist,” fighting back against God’s miracle: the election of Trump. The strongest indicator of end times for Bakker was the cancellation of ABC’s “Last Man Standing” last week. The show starred Tim Allen, an anomalyous Trump supporter in Hollywood. Conservatives have blamed Allen’s political leanings for the show’s cancellation, despite offering no evidence to support their claims.

Although Bakker never watched the show, he insisted it was cancelled because of hatred for Trump.

“This is not a normal spirit. This is not a normal hate. This is that spirit of the first horse of the Apocalypse,” Bakker continued. “It’s the spirit of hatred that’s taking over America.”

2. Rick Joyner, founder MorningStar Ministries

After the Comey memo news broke earlier this week, the Jackson, Mississippi-based pastor took to Facebook to weigh in.

“I think Trump is going to fight,” he predicted. “He’s fighting his own party as much as the other party, he’s fighting in every direction, he’s a fighter, he was made for that… wait and see if he doesn’t prevail.”

Joyner has long attributed Trump’s win to a higher power.

“I believe we have someone even bigger who is setting things up in our country, that it is God himself responding to the prayers of his people, and Trump is being used in an incredible way,” he added.

As for Trump’s detractors in the Republican Party, Joyner remarked, “You can’t really take out your enemies until you see them, and I think it’s being proven with everybody in our Congress, what their true state is.”

3. Lance Wallnau, motivational speaker 

Wallnau, author of God’s Chaos Candidate: Donald J. Trump and the American Unraveling, believes that women marchers are witches and late-night talk show hosts their “evangelists.”

“It doesn’t matter how good Trump is doing in his first 100 days,” he lamented last week, having dubbed the ongoing Russia investigation “the stupidest, most hilarious thing.”

Wallnau’s solution to the resistance? A mass mobilization of Trump voters.

“There’s no grassroots mobilizing five million or 10 million voices or 20 million or 30 million voices, and I promise you, we’re out there,” he bemoaned. “But there’s like a fog that’s got to be pierced over the minds of leaders.”

Alexandra Rosenmann is an AlterNet associate editor. Follow her @alexpreditor.

This article was made possible by the readers and supporters of AlterNet.

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59 Comments

  1. Mama Bear May 21, 2017

    These people are certifiable. Just when I think I have heard it all these loonies come up with something even more bizarre. The writer used the best word possible for them “unhinged”

    Reply
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      Reply
    2. kep May 22, 2017

      Nothing more unhinged than a liberal that has lost power.

      Reply
      1. Sand_Cat May 22, 2017

        What a surprise! The ignorant and delusional moron is here to defend the other ignorant and delusional morons, but can’t even think of anything good to say about them. As usual, your robotic stupidity allows only recitation of lies you weren’t even bright enough to make up yourself, never mind realize that they are lies.
        Go crawl back into the slime under your rock; it suits you better.

        Reply
        1. kep May 22, 2017

          Go back to your litter box

          Reply
          1. Independent1 May 22, 2017

            Did Sandy ever paint an accurate picture of you – Go crawl back in the slime under your rock!!!

            You haven’t even evolved from the repulsive creature you were when you crawled out the sea!! You are a subhuman worthless piece of trash not even worth one second of time to pay attention to!!!!!! Your posts are worth the time you’re taking to make them LOWLIFE!!!

            Reply
          2. kep May 25, 2017

            I love how liberals melt down when they cant lie their way out of something

            Reply
          3. Independent1 May 25, 2017

            Thanks for proving my point. You’re posts are always ridiculous nonsense!!!!

            Reply
          4. Sand_Cat May 24, 2017

            Ah, the expected infantile “conservative” obsession with excretory functions rears its “head.” Clearly, your mind is in the toilet; don’t project your perversions on me.

            Reply
          5. dpaano May 24, 2017

            I think both you, Aaron, and A.D. have caused Kep’s brain to explode. Trying to have an intelligent conversation about religion is way beyond his realm of understanding!!!

            Reply
          6. kep May 25, 2017

            Reality is out of YOUR realm ofbunderstanding.

            Reply
          7. kep May 25, 2017

            Acyually, I think Catlady Elie is the one with the bodily functions obsessions, and sooooo many more mental “quirks”.
            I have no need to project anything on you. You already have more problems than most people should have to deal with. You, along with Elie, should seek the professional help you so desperately need.

            Reply
  2. Aaron_of_Portsmouth May 21, 2017

    Trump recently referred to Comey as a nut case. The irony of that reference is that it came from a certified nut, Donald Trump.

    But not to get sidetracked, the Evangelicals are right that something is terribly wrong and ungodly about Trump and his troubles, but they are again dead wrong to the reasons.
    The faulty and ludicrous theories of the Clerics in America is due to the simple fact that they no longer are capable of being the spiritual beacons the Institution of the Clergy were meant to be in each of the Religions sent by God. A review of how Baha’u’llah describes the clergy in each Dispensation of Religion can is most accurately and clearly described in a work written in a matter of days—it may have been within a 24 hour period because of the urgency for a response by a Persian relative of Baha’u’llah’s predecessor, who kindly requested that Baha’u’llah answer some fundamental theological questions.
    The book is called “The Kitab-i-Iqan”, which is available through Amazon, and the Baha’i Distribution Center for the United States, with main offices in Atlanta; also on-line.

    Anyway, the clergy are cited as having misinterpreted the signs that have appeared in the Books revealed aforetime; some of these clergy became so unhinged as to whose interpretation was correct that numerous sects arose, and have done so in each of the previous Revelations up to the time of The Baha’i Faith.

    Since Baha’u’llah has outlawed the institution of the Clergy, and ordained that Administrative affairs and other duties performed in the past by the clerics should now be conducted and channeled into community life though bodies of 9 adult Baha’is “in good standing” and meeting certain criteria, including a mature mind and recognized ability.

    These qualities,as is obvious particularly with the Evangelical clerics outlined above, are not only sorely lacking, but the Institution itself is moribund and no longer sanctioned. And therefore can’t be relied on to offer any meaningful and reasonable guidance.

    One statement in the New Testament regarding the “End Times” refers to this institution of the Clergy. In Matthew 24:29(KJV) we have the following pertaining to the Clergy:

    “29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”

    Stars falling from the sky. Astronomically, we know there is no such thing as stars falling from the sky, for were that so, where would they “fall”?

    Since this is an impossibility, the Biblical reference must be a metaphor. Taking the next logical step in our reflection, we may note that a “star” is a shining object that gives off light and is evident in the “night season”. The North Star, “Polaris” is a star that has been used as a kind of compass to guide travelers. This similitude we can apply to the Clergy who acted as guides in the “night season” of social upheavals and confusion as to how to read and understand the Message in the Books—Books that the average person couldn’t read, and therefore needed a “guide”. As for “The powers being shaken”—might this also refer to leaders, secular and clerical, who’ve lost their reasoning and ability to understand the Books?

    I leave the rest to you all to ponder such themes further.

    Reply
  3. Aaron_of_Portsmouth May 21, 2017

    Trump recently referred to Comey as a nut case. The irony of that reference is that it came from a certified nut, Donald Trump.

    But not to get sidetracked, the Evangelicals are right that something is terribly wrong and ungodly about Trump and his troubles, but they are again dead wrong about the reasons. The clergy in the East and in the West no longer have a clarity of sight and understanding, nor have they been able to understand the hidden meanings in their Books except to a very limited degree.

    The faulty and ludicrous theories of the Clerics in America is due to the simple fact that they no longer are capable of being the spiritual beacons the Institution of the Clergy were meant to be in each of the Religions sent by God. A review of how Baha’u’llah describes the clergy in each Dispensation of Religion can is most accurately and clearly described in a book written in a matter of days—it may have been within a 24 hour period because of the urgency for a response by someone who had questions regarding Religious sayings and verses, and who kindly requested that Baha’u’llah clarify fundamental theological questions.

    The book is called “The Kitab-i-Iqan”, which is available through Amazon, and the Baha’i Distribution Center for the United States, with main offices in Atlanta; also on-line.

    Anyway, the clergy are cited as having misinterpreted the signs that have appeared in the Books revealed aforetime; some of these clergy became so unhinged as to whose interpretation was correct that numerous sects arose, and have done so in each of the previous Revelations up to the time of The Baha’i Faith.

    Since Baha’u’llah has outlawed the institution of the Clergy, and ordained that Administrative affairs and other duties performed in the past by the clerics should now be conducted and channeled into community life though bodies of 9 adult Baha’is “in good standing” and meeting certain criteria, including a mature mind and recognized ability.

    These qualities,as is obvious particularly with the Evangelical clerics outlined above, are not only sorely lacking, but the Institution itself is moribund and no longer sanctioned. And therefore can’t be relied on to offer any meaningful and reasonable guidance.

    One statement in the New Testament regarding the “End Times” refers to this institution of the Clergy. In Matthew 24:29(KJV) we have the following pertaining to the Clergy:

    “29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”

    “Stars shall fall from heaven” — Astronomically, we know there is no such thing as stars falling from the sky, for were that so, where would they “fall” to? Certainly not on earth. So there must be another explanation as to the inner meaning of the verse(s).

    Since this is an impossibility, the Biblical reference must be a metaphor. Taking the next logical step in our reflection, we may note that a “star” is a shining object that gives off light and is evident in the “night season”. The North Star, “Polaris”, is a star that has been used historically for eons, serving as a kind of compass to guide travelers. This similitude we can apply to the Clergy who acted as guides in the “night season” of social upheavals and confusion as to how to read and understand the Message in the Books—Books that the average person couldn’t read, and therefore needed a “guide”. As for “The powers being shaken”—might this also refer to leaders, secular and clerical, who’ve lost their reasoning and ability to understand the Books?

    “Stars” and “moon” are used often in the Bible, the Qur’an, and in other Books and in Native AMerican Traditions as revealed by Teachers who appeared on the Americas(North and South), as well as Teachers who appeared in Eurasia and Austalasia and the Pacific regions, according to the explanation of the theme of “Teachers” as expounded at further length by Baha’u’llah in this new era of our shared human evolution and histories.

    I leave the rest to you all to ponder such themes further.

    Reply
    1. Sand_Cat May 22, 2017

      You sound like an intelligent, well-meaning, and honest person, but you’ll never convince most of us who’ve seen and studied religion in action over the centuries that the books you mention (the Bible and the Qur’an, at least) are anything but the delusions and ravings of malicious lunatics, with a dash of wisdom here and there to encourage acceptance of the whole. If Bahai has good books and wise teachings, for what on earth does it need these books and their corrupt followers other than as examples of why Bahai is a better religion?

      Reply
      1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth May 22, 2017

        You misunderstand the nature of my posts if you think my purpose is to assert that the Baha’i Faith is better.
        Seeing religion in action, and understanding the real intent of Religion and understand its Essence are two different things.
        If we had the opportunity to go back in time, we would notice all the Religions starting out in a pristine form—untarnished by man-made innovations. Such innovations were(and are) the products of the limited understandings of the Clergy after each Messenger ascended to the Next World. And from the ill-informed interpretations of these clerics, each Religion underwent decay. BUT THE ESSENCE OF EACH RELIGION IS INVIOLABLE.

        Now, since none of the previous Dispensations had a written Covenant as to who was to maintain the role of being the Central Figure to turn to, nor did such Religions have a mandate to provide an exhaustive corpus of ancillary literature to elaborate on the allegories, metaphors, and similes, differences of opinions over meaning arose. From that point, splits occurred(Sects), each group dogmatically insisting on its interpretations being preferred.

        Jesus alluded to Peter be referring to him as “The Rock”. Some saw this as a sign that all should turn to Peter, but Paul didn’t see it that way. This the first major split in Christianity began. During the Dispensation of Islam, Muhammad made numerous indirect references to Ali(His son-in-law and cousin) that Ali should be the one to turn to. But since there was nothing clearly written to that effect, and since thousands of early Muslims weren’t privy to the special relationship of trust that Muhammad had for Ali, many Muslims sided with another person to lead the Muslim community. This would lead to the formation of a split in Islam—those following Abu Bakr, who was proposed by another Muslim to lead the community, would become the Sunni branch. Others who felt that Ali was the one intended to lead became known as Shi`ahs. From these two branches countless other divisions arose—also as occurred in Christianity.

        Now, with Baha’u’llah, we have a Religious personage designating in Writing who the Baha’is should turn to upon His passing; and that person, Abdu’l Baha, wrote a Will and Testament also, which mentioned explicitly who the Baha’is should turn to, And in the event that any of Baha’u’llah’s successors was unable to designate a successor(someone that had to be of impeccable character), then Baha’u’llah in anticipation of such a possibility, made a proviso, that the Baha’i Community should elect a body of 9 individuals, and that body should be designated as “The Universal House of Justice”(“Bayt-ul-Adl” in the original Arabic of Baha’u’llah’s “Kitab-i-Ahd”[The Book of The Covenant]).

        And so, this body was elected in 1963, and its Seat is along the slopes of Mount Carmel, in Haifa, Israel. I and all the other Baha’is across the globe are united in their vision and understanding that this body is the one to turn to for guidance, and to decide on matters not yet fully expounded in the copious Writings,or to apply what is available to help decide on matters of importance to the world Baha’i Community.

        All the Religions are One, They all proceed from the same Source, and are all driven to lead to humanity in order for us to develop an ever-advancing civilization. Each Religion is sent in order to administer to the affairs of those to whom the Religion appeared. And this paradigm of Progressive Revelation will continue into the future in perpetuity.

        These are just my rendition based on my personal readings of the Baha’i Writings and experiences as a Baha’i for the past 50 years, since my dad first told me about this new Faith he had become a member of, while I was a senior in High School.

        Sorry for the prolixity of my comments, but the subject is one which I recommend you further investigate independently regardless of my understanding.

        The best place to start is at “www. bahai.org”.

        Regards,
        Aaron

        PS—The Baha’i Faith isn’t better, it’s just “newer”. And other Religions will come after it.

        “…This is the changeless Faith of God. Eternal in the past, and eternal in the future…” (Baha’u’llah)

        Reply
    2. A. D. Reed May 23, 2017

      Sorry, Aaron. Having read your post and SandCat’s reply and your response to that, let me just tell you:

      There are no “messengers.” There is no “deity” that sends messengers to earth. There is no “inviolability” of any religion, all of which are human constructs meant to A) explain phenomena that contemporary knowledge could not explain through logic and science (“scio, scire,” to know in Latin) and B) control the actions and choices of other people.

      There are no dispensations from a non-existent god, and there are no covenants except between delusional men who made them up to support their belief that, because they themselves couldn’t explain something, there must be some magical power who looked just like them — only bigger and not as earth-bound — to make it happen.

      Gods and devils and angels and witches and all the other supernatural beings beloved by practitioners and promoters of what you call “Religion” are, to a man and woman, imaginary creatures. They do not exist. And honestly, the people who claim otherwise, whether evangelical nutjobs on TV or honest, sane clergy and other faith leaders, are putting their faith in magic rather than reality.

      Reply
      1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth May 23, 2017

        Well, A.D.—With your dreary and bleak outlook, we may as well throw in the towel. I for one am more sanguine about the importance of Religion. But in today’s world, especially in Europe and America, Religion is all but dead, as your post indicates.
        Given that assessment based on your neglecting the importance of Religion, the rest of humanity would like to hear your solution. Make it as plausible as that offered by Baha’u’llah.

        The following excerpt from the “Tablet of Ahmad” should suffice as a caution about the futility of your coming us with a viable alternative:

        “…Thus doth the Nightingale utter His call unto you from this prison. He hath but to deliver this clear message. Whosoever desireth, let him turn aside from this counsel and whosoever desireth let him choose the path to his Lord.

        O people, if ye deny these verses, by what proof have ye believed in God? Produce it, O assemblage of false ones.

        Nay, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, they are not, and never shall be able to do this, even should they combine to assist one another. …”

        Reply
        1. A. D. Reed May 23, 2017

          Aaron, there’s not a word in my comment that is dreary or bleak, or that indicates a “dreary and bleak outlook.” I’m a born and lifelong optimist. I also happen to be a lifelong humanist and atheist, as I see no value in putting my faith in imaginary deities.

          Nor is religion dead; religion per se is any tie that binds communities of like minds together (another Latin root). And my own humanist leanings, embodied in the Ethical Humanist Society, are considered a religion; it just doesn’t rely on or believe in a supernatural deity. It believes, as its name suggests, in humanity, and the human strengths and weaknesses that we all share. It also believes in the possibility, indeed the necessary likelihood, that human behavior can be improved through our actions and expectations and — yes — our faith. Faith in the goodness of people, with no need for divine intervention.

          Also, believe it or not (as it were), I don’t for a moment denigrate or neglect “the importance of religion.” Shared beliefs in values and ethics and morality and appropriate behavior are essential to any society, whether a small, cohesive, like-minded community of 300 early European settlers in North America, or across a diverse land like the United States. Those shared values, however, are philosophical and ethical, not religious.

          And, in fact, most of the world’s religious heritages share certain humanist values, among them to treat others as one would like to be treated, to care for the weak, for children and the aged, to respect the wisdom of elders, and to be honest and trustworthy in one’s own dealings with others. It’s those generally shared values that allow the world to negotiate in good faith, whether to end or avoid war, or to make fair trade deals, or to form alliances and “have one’s back.” It’s those shared values that allow people from utterly different cultures and religious traditions to condemn behavior by those who refuse to observe the shared values: the Nazis, the Japanese in WWII, the Soviets in eastern Europe (and in Ukraine today), and other atrocity-waging tyrants.

          But NONE of those shared values noted above requires any theistic belief underpinning it. They are human values which grow out of our common humanity. Ethics, for example, has been defined as “how you behave when nobody is looking.” It doesn’t suggest that some god or goddess is looking, only that you are looking at yourself as a human being, and therefore will choose to behave in a way that you yourself respect.

          In other words — humanism is a philosophy of life, and philosophy is not dependent on imaginary beings with supernatural powers for it to guide our behavior.

          “My solution” is not one the rest of humanity needs to hear; it has been articulated for millennia by philosophers and thinkers and poets and sages and prophets: “That which is hateful to you, do not do it to anyone else,” as the Jewish sage Hillel said. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” reads the Golden Rule. “Evoke the best from other people, and thereby from yourself,” wrote the founder of the Ethical Culture Society of NY in 1876.

          What’s so difficult about that? To me, the difficulty arises when one person says, “Well, I got my information from XYZ god,” and his opponent says, “My god is better than your god.” And they’re no longer opponents, but enemies.

          I take responsibility for my own beliefs and actions, rather than blaming them on the magic sky giant. And I am a total optimist about humanity, and I celebrate life every day and in every way. Nothing dreary or bleak about me!

          Reply
          1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth May 23, 2017

            It is sheer folly for the humanist to imagine that his or her perceptions of human nature are arrived at independently of any frame of reference. From the moment you and your ancestors were born, you were immersed in a universe of sensibilities arrived at through a basic Causal event, and from that event there arose fundamental elements, and from those would arise compounds and varieties of life forms that evolved to the current state you see things.
            Now, any rational and intelligent being capable of abstract thinking would immediately conclude that for every event there is a cause. It would be the acme of hubris and arrogance to assume that any humanist or otherwise can say with certainty that God doesn’t exist. In fact, all that the humanist would ascribe as knowledge is the result of a “Teacher” having imparted knowledge. Because there is no such thing as Knowledge without a Teacher; a chair presumes the existence of a carpenter, music presumes a musician, whether sentient or of a lower form capable of sound production.
            But for a rank musician to become an expert musician, a master musician is required to train the novice. Sure, there are those who have physical challenges such as blindness. but even for such there is an innate capacity on some occasions that cause the blind musician to excel. But again, there had to be an original source of impetus that impelled the blind to exceed her/his limitation. This “original source” is called God”, Yahweh, Allah, or what have you.

            A creation without a Creator, or an Effect without a Cause, is an absurdity illogical, and the product of vain imaginations—qualities found in abundance in Western Society.

            Only the conceit and arrogance of those “Africans” who migrated into Europe would ever conceive of a belief in nothingness, or see themselves as the center of Existence and masters of all they survey.

            Reply
          2. A. D. Reed May 23, 2017

            Yet another straw man! “…to imagine that … perceptions of human nature are arrived at independently of any frame of reference.”

            What baloney! I don’t imagine such things, nor does any humanist. The frame of reference, however, is not “a basic Causal event” which, apparently, you imagine to have begun — metaphorically — “On the first day, God created ….” or whatever construct Baha’is use. I don’t envision “a first day.” I envision the universe as the result of the Big Bang, and my personal belief — with little evidence — is that the Big Bang was the result of a previous Big Crunch, when a previous universe collapsed into such a super-massive black hole that it could no longer exist without exploding into a new one caused by what we call the Big Bang. And, no, I don’t envision a magic sky giant causing that, either.

            Second, I am a rational and intelligent being quite capable of abstract thinking, but I don’t for a moment conclude that “for every event there is a cause.” There are proximate causes and secondary causes, there are multiple factors that lead to the emergence of various phenomena, and there is often no immediate, direct causation for a particular event. Looking at the tides and water temperatures and El Nino and Pacific Warm Current, and at the arctic high pressure area that has wrought havoc over weather patterns in North America, and the drought and massive rains and snowstorms and record tornado clusters … nobody capable of rational thought would ascribe “a cause” to that conglomeration of events. Many such people, however, note that all those phenomena trace their likelihood to global warming, coupled with other factors such as the earth’s rotation, the thinning of the ice cap, increased thermodynamic activity under parts of the earth’s crust, the eleven-year sunspot cycle, etc. etc. etc.

            By your reasoning, however, there is a cause to La Nina. God. There is a cause to the ice cap’s thinning in the Arctic. God. There is a cause to each event, and it is the Creator, who apparently keeps very busy causing bees to sting people and tree trunks to rot so that branches fall on houses. By similar, less “sophisticated” reasoning, the cause of every breeze is the god of the woods who blows the winds into existence. The cause of the waves is Triton and the cause of the tides is Poseidon. And the cause of earthquakes and volcanoes if Vulcan hammering at his forge.

            Actually, it is the acme of hubris and arrogance to assume that any person can say with certainty that god DOES exist. And it is the acme of illogic to claim that all knowledge is the result of a teacher having imparted knowledge. No teacher imparted the concept of E=MC2 to Einstein; he used his brain and his insight and his creative mind to figure it out, and then HE imparted that knowledge to others.

            I realize that you are incapable of viewing any phenomenon in the universe through any other lens than that of someone subordinate and beholden to a “Creator,” and that as a result you cannot wrap your mind around the possibility that life evolved from the very outset into its myriad earthly forms (and whatever forms exist on other planets) without divine intervention.

            I can. And frankly, I am no more arrogant in dismissing claims that god exists than you are in insisting “He” does.

            Reply
          3. Sand_Cat May 24, 2017

            Well written.
            I like and respect Aaron, and I don’t object to his posts, many of which make excellent points, but I agree with pretty much everything else you wrote except I have a lot of trouble feeling optimistic about it all. While I agree people “can” improve things and make a better life for all, the overwhelming evidence I see is that they won’t. It seems likely to me that mankind will continue to kill and exploit one another and everything else – living and non-living – until the planet is a sewer with not much left but the adaptable-to-all rats, roaches, and the ultimate “vermin” and close cousin to the other two, human beings like Trump, Tillerson, Sessions, and others like them, plus whatever slaves (human or animal) they decide to spare. May whatever force rules the universe forbid that such people also manage to colonize other “earth-like” planets elsewhere.
            In the meantime, our job is to fight to preserve the beauty and goodness in both mankind and the rest of the earth. While I can see the attraction of “supernatural” beings who have nothing better to do than love and care for us – despite their apparent failure to do anything about what’s happening – it puzzles and angers me that many if not most of their purported followers choose to join forces with the pillaging barbarians like Trump and the rest of corporate America. In any case, the only religions for which I had much hope were Buddhism and maybe some of Taoism, but many “enlightened” Zen masters – including several famous who helped bring the Dharma to the US (NOT Shunryu Suzuki, who went to prison for his opposition) – were enthusiastic supporters of Japan’s war and even explicitly the atrocities it involved, and I hear Buddhists are killing Muslims in Myanmar, and other SE Asian countries. Whatever Taoism there was appears to have been destroyed by the Communists in China or trivialized out of existence by the commercial interests in Taiwan.
            I like and respect Aaron, and I don’t object to his posts

            Reply
          4. A. D. Reed May 24, 2017

            Thanks, SandCat.

            Aaron reminds me strongly of my brother, also a Baha’i, and maybe that’s why his posts push my buttons. 🙂 But I, too, agree with pretty much all his political views, though I’m in agreement with you about the sad state of so many religious groups and sects and cults these days. It shocked the hell out of me to read about the “peaceful” Buddhists killing Muslims.

            Reply
          5. dpaano May 24, 2017

            Then, A.D., you basically have your own religion….and it appears you don’t begrudge the rest of us for our beliefs. Seemingly many of the humanist beliefs are the same as the ones we get from the Bible. Personally, I’m not sure there is a God, but I like to think that someone is keeping an eye on me somewhere….and if that makes me feel better, so be it. You have your “religion,” and the rest of us have ours. They’re all the same in the end.

            Reply
      2. Aaron_of_Portsmouth May 23, 2017

        In addition to my former reply to you, I must remind you that basing your opinions on what you see is a lack of evidence of God’s existence is an outcome of Western thoughts that centered on a materialist view of existence. Early European scholars began to subscribe to the notion that what was inaccessible to the 5 senses ipso facto does not exist. With this new philosophy based strictly on tangible results, many humans slowly drifted away from contact with their spiritual make-up and began to stress the austere notion of humans as just bags of basic chemical elements with electrical impulses. In other words, merely sophisticated electro-chemical units with the ability to cogitate and speak.
        With this outlook on human nature, little wonder that the world today is overrun with beings obsessed with being just biological units.

        Speaking of the 5 senses, what color is love? How does empathy smell? What is the flavor of decomposition? How does a broken heart sound? How sound does a sense of loss emit?

        Before the advent of quantum mechanics, scientists denied the existence of the atom, and when they were detected by J.J. Thompsom and colleagues, everyone was absolutely certain that the atom had a solar system-like configuration. The concept of quarks and other sub-nuclear entities was scoffed at; the notion that there were different kinds of “infinities” was ridiculed when Cantor, a 19th century mathematician proclaimed that there was such a thing as cardinality associated with different infinities, e.g., infinity of rational numbers versus the higher infinity of the irrational numbers.

        My point, A.d., is that because we can’t visualize God in our minds does not preclude His existence. To imagine God, an unknowable Essence, in our minds would instantly make of Him a finite Being. The finite mind was never intended to comprehend the infinite, no more so than the visible eye can see radiation at frequencies beyond the “visible” range of the Electromagnetic spectrum.

        Reply
      3. plc97477 May 23, 2017

        A belief is personal. You don’t need to dash another’s beliefs to keep yours intact.

        Reply
        1. A. D. Reed May 23, 2017

          Actually, the story is about crazed evangelical beliefs (or political positions couched as beliefs); the comment thread began by disparaging and dismissing those crazed evangelicals’ purported beliefs; and then Aaron began preaching his own beliefs at the rest of us. My response to him was no more personal than his preaching at us was. If a commenter prefers to preach his beliefs rather than comment on the content of the original story, that’s fine. But then the comment thread is about him, not the story, and he’s the one who changed it.

          Don’t blame me, plc97477.

          Reply
          1. dpaano May 24, 2017

            Unfortunately, A.D., most of us don’t mind Aaron’s “preaching.” He says some very astute things and gives you something to think about. I appreciate his comments as I’m sure many other on this site do.

            Reply
          2. Independent1 May 24, 2017

            So in other words, you believe that the one celled life that scientists claim started life on earth which have no brain, had enough intelligence to have created a human body that even doctors today can not fully explain how it works. Is that it?

            Sorry but scientists wild notions that everything just created itself from nothing and then evolved into beings as complex as us just by happenstance, is far more far fetched than believing in God.

            And only the simple minded would believe that evolution was anything less than God tinkering with his creations.

            Reply
          3. A. D. Reed May 24, 2017

            No, that’s not it. Evolutionary change has nothing to do with intelligence. You should study it some time.

            Reply
          4. Independent1 May 24, 2017

            You are aware that scientists still have not found several ‘missing links’ and that fossil finds are still sometimes totally disproving the evolution they once believed took place. And that’s because their entire premise is misguided.

            Reply
          5. A. D. Reed May 25, 2017

            Scientists still have not found several “missing links” — that’s why they’re called “missing.”
            When fossil finds “disprove” — actually challenge or upset — part of the theory, that’s called “new information” (see my previous post), and the theory is re-analyzed and restudied to understand what the new information purports, and ultimately the theory is revised to accommodate the new information.

            That’s A) why it’s called a “scientific theory” — it’s the most comprehensive, provable, testable hypothesis that takes in all the available information, and B) how science works — recognizing new information that causes a theory to be refined, reanalyzed, restudied, and revised.

            What part of the scientific method don’t you understand? Didn’t they explain the process in ninth and tenth grades?

            Reply
          6. Independent1 May 24, 2017

            You mean study something that was concocted by and explained by man? Is that it? Evolution explained by some scientists who through observations are supposedly able to explain how evolution works?? Really?

            Yes, they may be able to explain how creatures once created can adapt themselves to their environment or situations around them and therefore evolve to adapt to that environment, but they have not yet explained how one celled creatures magically turned themselves into living beings that have very complex organ structures with complex brains and nerve systems etal which no one celled creature had the brains to create.

            Any explanations they have are nothing more than grabbing a straws just like the Big Bang theory of the Universe’s creation (supposedly from nothing with no one’s help). Just like the magician standing on the stage supposedly pulling coins out of thin air?

            Reply
          7. A. D. Reed May 25, 2017

            You write that I believe in “Evolution explained by some scientists who through observations are supposedly able to explain how evolution works?? Really?”

            That’s how science works. Observation, analysis, theorizing, testing, refining, additional analysis, more observation, incorporating newly discovered facts, testing again, retesting…. Science isn’t like a book that gets written, edited, and printed and is then done. It is a process that leads to ever broader, deeper knowledge, and greater understanding of the universe we inhabit. And it’s subject to revision as new information comes to life.

            “[T]hey have not yet explained how one celled creatures magically turned themselves into living beings that have very complex organ structures with complex brains and nerve systems…”

            A) One-celled creatures didn’t do anything “magically”; that’s not how evolution, or any other science, works. No magic involved.
            B) One-celled creatures ARE living beings.
            C) Scientists have explained, very clearly and logically and with reams of evidence, how highly complex systems evolved from very simple ones. There are two primary mechanisms: first, response to the environment, i.e., adaptation and, from that, survival of the fittest; and genetic mutation, which occasionally causes a sudden change that gives an advantage to the organisms that have it over those that do not (also leading to survival of the fittest).

            There will always be “missing links” in the geological record; there have also been numerous examples of discoveries that corroborated theories that had postulated a series of “missing links” in a chain of evolution, including the ichthyo-reptilian fossil found in Canada a dozen or so years ago, at precisely the time period when it had been postulated.

            How anyone can deny evolution in this day and age …

            Reply
      4. dpaano May 24, 2017

        A.D. I go along with you in some cases, but some people need to have someone or something to believe in from a day-to-day standpoint. What is wrong with believing in God? It doesn’t hurt anyone and it doesn’t cause any problems. If you choose not to believe, that’s your prerogative, but to negate anyone else’s feelings is not a nice thing to do.

        Reply
        1. A. D. Reed May 24, 2017

          You’re right, it’s not nice of me to denigrate Aaron’s beliefs. I just wish he wouldn’t try to evangelize them here in a discussion about the crackpot evangelicals for Trump. But all his posts are about how wonderful Baha’i is. So, you open Pandora’s box, you don’t know what will fly out of it. 🙂

          Reply
  4. I of John May 22, 2017

    Ohhh it’s the apocalypse, that changes everything! Oh and when too many women gather together to have their voices heard, they must be evil witches right?! And folks wonder why people are not going to church any more.

    Reply
  5. idamag May 22, 2017

    Please, rapture, come and take these nutjobs away. “During the almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places pride or indolence of the clergy. Ignorance and servility of the laity; in fact, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” – James Madison, General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia (1785)

    Reply
    1. Dapper Dan May 22, 2017

      Think about this when the rapture occurs. God actually takes the sane people out and leaves the deplorable hypocrites on earth ????

      Reply
      1. Sand_Cat May 22, 2017

        Don’t hold your breath.

        Reply
      2. idamag May 22, 2017

        The thing is, I might be one of the sane ones.

        Reply
    2. Sand_Cat May 22, 2017

      I love the bumper sticker that says “When the Rapture comes, can I have your trailer?”

      Reply
      1. idamag May 22, 2017

        Laughing

        Reply
      2. A. D. Reed May 23, 2017

        Laughing, too.

        Reply
  6. Dapper Dan May 22, 2017

    A sure sign of the apocalypse is when a lame Friday night sitcom gets cancelled. Um yeah sure ????

    Reply
  7. Richard Prescott May 22, 2017

    I wonder if Nostradamus’s predictions will be revisited now. Just who ‘is’ the real anti-christ? Can’t avoid asking, am so curious.
    Which nut job is worse than the other, or are all 3 just equally nuts. Should we send kool aid kits to all of them along with the rapture prayers?

    Reply
    1. Sand_Cat May 22, 2017

      It’s all probably pious crap; the closest thing to the anti-Christ that I see is the great mass of “Christ’s” self-proclaimed most fervent “followers.” It may take religion to make good people do bad things, but in many cases we’re not even talking about good people to start with.

      Reply
  8. TCarlucci May 22, 2017

    Trump is the Antichrist – google it.

    Reply
    1. Sand_Cat May 22, 2017

      Unfortunately, you’d probably get as many hits for Obama, or even Pope Francis. Trump is the one who relies on those Internet “facts” that suit him; let’s not imitate that. Trump is a vulgar, dishonest, incredibly selfish, malicious, and vengeful child; no one with any sense needs Google or the Internet to see that.

      Reply
      1. TCarlucci May 22, 2017

        Cat – I cannot disagree with anything you said. I just found the number of Google hits for “Trump is an Antichrist” scarily fascinating.

        Reply
  9. Beethoven May 22, 2017

    Anyone who has any true and honest understanding of Christianity knows that these men are almost the exact opposite of Christians. To believe that Donald Trump, who has broken nearly every commandment (maybe he hasn’t murdered anyone yet, except indirectly as the result of his actions), and has bragged about committing adultery openly, and who seemingly has even less knowledge and understanding of Christianity than the average first-grade child, is the chosen one of God to lead the Christians in the battles of the apocalypse, is clear proof that anyone believing that has absolutely no understanding of Christianity or the Bible.

    Reply
  10. harviele May 22, 2017

    The fog is in the minds of those who support Trump. If they truly went by Christian values and were not in a fog, brainwashed, deceived, what ever you want to call it, they could not possibly justify voting for such a corrupt man for President. They have been fed so much misinformation which they choose to believe that they are incapable of grasping the truth. The bible speaks of a great delusion being allowed to separate those who value the truth from those who value the lies. The Evangelicals value the lies and seek not the truth. They will be sent to Hell. This explains why Jesus said that there would be many who cried Lord Lord and spoke of their religion who would be sent into Hell. He said many will come but few will enter. There are three steps necessary to get into Heaven. The first is to realize you have sinned and confess your sins. The second is to repent for those sins. The third is to do the will of the Father and follow His teachings. He was very specific about who would not be permitted entry into Heaven. The Republican party and Donald Trump represent the people who will be sent to Hell. Republican policies in no way represent the teachings of Jesus. There is no way a Christian, following the teachings of Jesus, could justify voting for or supporting Donald Trump or any of the republicans in Congress since their policies are the opposite of Jesus’ teachings.

    Reply
  11. Sand_Cat May 22, 2017

    No surprise: there has been a “a fog that’s got to be pierced over the minds of leaders” of many “Christian” groups for decades, especially the self-anointed “saved” of the current evangelical movement. “Jesus” is just a “get out of Hell Free” card; few of them seem to have read the words attributed to him, or they have simply chosen to ignore them on the assumption that their “faith” – whatever that means in their cases- will save them from the “Old Testament” monster they love so much when it comes to judging and condemning other people. These examples are essentially caricatures; the scary thing is the ordinary members who have insulated themselves completely from facts, and even from the purported “commandments” of the man they like to call god.

    Reply
    1. Independent1 May 22, 2017

      Sandy, in addition to these nutcase fake Christians putting their support behind a dirtbag like Trump, they’re supporting a guy who is acting just like a mobster Don. A guy who’s been so used to working with mobsters all his life, that he thinks he can somehow get the heads of government agencies to do him favors, even when those favors are violations of the law or the Constitution. Only a guy as familiar with the mobs as Trump would be so clueless about just how limited the real authority of America’s president really is; a president certainly can’t go around like Trump thinks, ordering the heads of justice and intelligence agencies to break laws – any dummy would know exist.

      That became very clear given the following story where on top of trying to get Comey to give him loyalty and back off on investigating the Russians, he also asked the Director of National Intelligence and the Director of the NSA to push back on Comey’s investigation of his and his campaign teams involvement with the Russians. Trump would be right home as a mob boss, while he’s like a fish out of water in the Oval Office.

      See this:

      Trump asked intelligence chiefs to push back against FBI collusion probe after Comey revealed its existence

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-asked-intelligence-chiefs-to-push-back-against-fbi-collusion-probe-after-comey-revealed-its-existence/2017/05/22/394933bc-3f10-11e7-9869-bac8b446820a_story.html?utm_term=.578bfa5e8917&wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%252Bnation&wpmk=1

      And we actually have supposed religious people strongly supporting someone who is as crooked as the day is long!!! And why can’t people like Tim Allen and other reasonably intelligent politicians see that this guy is nothing more than a crook?? What a joke!!!

      Reply
      1. dpaano May 24, 2017

        I liked “Last Man Standing,” but I got a little annoyed whenever he mentioned something against President Obama. It was VERY clear where his feelings were coming from!

        Reply
    2. dpaano May 24, 2017

      Calling Trump “God” is pure and simple blasphemy!

      Reply
  12. Ernie Aldridge May 22, 2017

    It’s simple. Religous folk respond to authority. The guy in the preaching box is who tells them what is real. ‘Faith is evidence of things unseen’. God is not someone you can see, once they get used to accepting what is unprovable, all that is necessary is to slip in other stuff. Gradually reality is that thing waaaay back where they used to be. Donnie is not perfect. Neither is anyone else. That wiggle room leaves space where Donnie can do anything – any thing – but because he is god’s choice, he can do no wrong. It’s just a matter of time before god’s plan is finished.
    While they wait, repubs are raping the public, our land, and making obscene amounts of money for a few old folks.
    Reason, logic, patience, all roll off these people because it’s not what their preacher told them.
    A dog who misbehaves you can get his attention by whacking him on the nose with a newspaper. (Not recommending cruelty, but you see what I mean here?)
    Religious nuts can be reached by keeping them from hurting themselves and others and waiting for them to snap out of it. But while they are running in packs mutually supporting each other in their insanity, there is no way to find the end of the thread and unraveling it.
    If we get to vote in the next election – a big if – maybe we can take the future of our nation out of the corrupt hands of the charltans responsible for this massive deception. The reaction when the bubble breaks and they see how they have been deluded will be epic.
    1933 Germany was like this, I think. I hope we react better than the Germans did back then.

    Reply
  13. dpaano May 24, 2017

    What a bunch of idiots…..these evangelicals are so out of sync with what’s going on around them…it’s ridiculous! They are supposed to be followers of the bible, but if they follow Trump, they are not anywhere near what Jesus has asked of them! Maybe they need to go back and reread the New Testament!!!

    Reply
    1. Independent1 May 24, 2017

      Or read it in its totality and not just pick and choose the verses they feel that they can ‘live with’.

      Reply

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