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Risky Business: Corporate Leaders Bemoan Tea Party Default Crisis Created By Their Own Donations

Memo Pad Politics

Risky Business: Corporate Leaders Bemoan Tea Party Default Crisis Created By Their Own Donations

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America’s great minds of business and finance have reached a consensus on the government shutdown and worse, the prospect of a debt default: While the latter is worse, both are bad. Those same great minds are well aware how the shutdown came to pass and why default still looms on the horizon, whether next week, next month, or next year.

Yes, the frightened corporate leaders surely know how this happened — because their money funded the Tea Party candidates and organizations responsible for the crisis.

Consider Rep. Ted Yoho (R-FL), a Tea Party freshman whose outspoken stupidity on a default’s potential benefits, such as an improved U.S. credit rating, has provided a bit of dark humor in these dark days. Yoho, a large-animal veterinarian, announced months ago that he would never vote to raise the debt ceiling.

Like most Republican candidates, he had no problem raising contributions from business interests, notably including contractors, insurance companies, manufacturers and agricultural processors — all of which presumably share the horror of default expressed by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. But no doubt Yoho parroted the usual right-wing clichés about taxes, regulation, labor, and health care, so all the business guys wrote a check without caring that Yoho is an ignorant yobbo.

Or consider Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-IN), who came to embody the idiocy of the shutdown when he declared “we’re not going to be disrespected” by the White House, but couldn’t articulate precisely what Republicans needed in order to reopen the government and avoid default.  Another low-wattage Tea Party newcomer, Stutzman likewise raised plenty of money from commercial banks, real estate firms, insurance companies, and various manufacturers. Why do these executives write checks to elect someone like him?

Then there are the Tea Party leaders in the upper chamber, including such adornments of democracy as Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) and of course Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX). Johnson says there need be no debt default, no matter what Congress does, while Cruz, the “Defund Obamacare” mastermind, is more culpable than any other single legislator for the paralysis gripping Washington and the country. Johnson’s top donors include an investment firm called Fiduciary Management, Inc., ironically enough, as well as Northwestern Mutual, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Mass Mutual Life Insurance, and naturally, Koch Industries (which now claims, disingenuously, that it doesn’t favor the Cruz shutdown strategy or a debt default).

As for Cruz, guess who paid for his campaign? Very close to the top of the list of donors for the despised Texan is none other than Goldman Sachs — whose chairman Lloyd Blankfein showed up at the White House a few days ago to bemoan the catastrophic threat of default. Not only did Blankfein and his fellow bankers warn of what might happen if America breaches its full faith and credit, but he even hinted that the fault lies with Republican hostage takers. Which is only partially right, because Blankfein and his fellow financiers need to look in the mirror, too. Cruz also got a big check from Berkshire Hathaway, corporate home of the venerated Wall Street sage Warren Buffett, who just compared the impact of default to “a nuclear bomb.” If that nuke wipes out the markets, Berkshire’s investment in Cruz will have lit the fuse.

If any of these business leaders honestly cared about fiscal responsibility and economic growth – let alone the constant threat of shutdowns and defaults – they could step up to warn the Republicans that the money won’t be there anymore unless they cease and desist from such assaults on democracy. They have more than enough money and power to end this crisis – and make sure it never happens again – but they seem to lack the necessary character and courage.

Photo: Gage Skidmore via Flickr

Joe Conason

A highly experienced journalist, author and editor, Joe Conason is the editor-in-chief of The National Memo, founded in July 2011. He was formerly the executive editor of the New York Observer, where he wrote a popular political column for many years. His columns are distributed by Creators Syndicate and his reporting and writing have appeared in many publications around the world, including the New York Times, the Washington Post, The New Yorker, The New Republic, The Nation, and Harpers. Since November 2006, he has served as editor of The Investigative Fund, a nonprofit journalism center, where he has assigned and edited dozens of award-winning articles and broadcasts. He is also the author of two New York Times bestselling books, The Hunting of the President (St. Martins Press, 2000) and Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth (St. Martins Press, 2003). Currently he is working on a new book about former President Bill Clinton's life and work since leaving the White House in 2001. He is a frequent guest on radio and television, including MSNBC's Morning Joe, and lives in New York City with his wife and two children.

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195 Comments

  1. Lynda Groom October 11, 2013

    Sorry fellows, you bought and paid for them and you own them.

    Reply
    1. disqus_ivSI3ByGmh October 11, 2013

      Unfortunately, the rest of us have to put up with them!

      Reply
    2. disqus_fsqeoY3FsG October 11, 2013

      Amen – so much for the tea party being purist. Your party and your elected officials are brought and paid for by Billionaires, Wall Street and Large Corporations who want to control the Government, just like every other politician. No purist to see here people. So who do you think the GOP represent when one letter from the Koch Brothers and contact from the US Chamber of Commerce and Wall Street and the GOP are willing to extend default for six weeks, certainly not the middle class and the poor.

      Reply
  2. docb October 11, 2013

    The dirt will not be removed in either bag of dirty anti-American actions…The Chamber and the WStreeters are in the same bag they goldplated for the yehooos! NONE will be forgiven!

    Reply
  3. Dominick Vila October 11, 2013

    Our business leaders thought they were buying more influence in Washington, instead, they supported people determined to destroy our economy, our international credibility, and our ability to borrow among other things. They created a monster, and they know it. The conclusions, statements and actions of politicians like Yoho are so bizarre, they are scary. The fact that people like him end up in Congress says more about those who elect them that the politicians they sent to Washington to destroy our government and the fabric that holds together our society.
    Their overt hatred of President Obama and Democrats in general, their not so subtle anarchist tendencies, their inability to offer viable alternatives, and statements that ought to embarrass every American, contribute to the low opinion that most of the world has our capacity to think and act rationally. From gun violence influenced by our unwillingness to put in place effective gun control laws, to constant attacks against social programs such as Social Security and MEDICARE, to their refusal to increase the tax rates of the wealthy because we, allegedly, already pay too much in taxes, to allegations that our healthcare system is the best in the world when, in fact, it is rated Nr. 38 in the world, to one of the lowest life expectancies in the world, and to our refusal to address immigration law reform, I think it is fair to say that the Tea Party is doing more to destroy all the progress that has been made during the last half century than any foreign threats could ever do.
    The sad part is that it doesn’t have to be like this. There is no logical explanation to justify the ability of 25% of our population imposing its will on the majority and making demands that ought to be unacceptable for anyone capable of rational thinking.
    Thankfully, the backlash that is evident in the polls finally forced those who feel indebted or are afraid of Tea Party retaliation to come to the table and negotiate in good faith. Let’s hope common sense, good will, and a sense of patriotism and responsibility prevails and we can all get back to business without fearing irresponsible and unconstitutional actions such as defaulting on our debt.

    Reply
    1. disqus_ivSI3ByGmh October 11, 2013

      Just think, Dom, if it hadn’t been for Sarah Palin barnstorming America after her disastrous defeat in her VP run, talking about “real Americans”, none of these idiots would have challenged and beaten Republican incumbents in the primaries and won in elections that would have voted Republican even if Jesus was on the Democratic Ticket.

      Reply
      1. Dominick Vila October 11, 2013

        I guess there is a silver lining for everything. Yes, Sarah, Rush, Glenn Beck, Coulter, Hannity and the rest of the gang did more to help re-elect Barack Obama than all the Democratic Party political ads combined. They are our ambassadors, and we should encourage them to keep up the good work!

        Reply
        1. Lynnette Gentry October 11, 2013

          You got that right Dominick cause smart people know anything those group of terrorists you just mention say do just the oppiside!!

          Reply
        2. Rupert_Murdoch68 October 11, 2013

          Also, If there had never been an idiot like Mr Bush, there actually would never have been an Obama. So thank you Mr. Bush for being so stupid.

          Reply
          1. David Waggoner October 11, 2013

            Correct- I have always thought that the countys’ disgust with Bush/Republicans almost handed the Presidency to any Democrat.
            The country chose a fairly new US Senator very intelligent and well spoken that is a minority OVER an experienced white guy Republican Senator that was “in-line”.
            That is a major backlash/reversal for sure!

            Reply
          2. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            Guys, that is a really good point. McCain, who probably would have been a shoo-in over any average Democrat, lost his chance to become president because of the idiocy of his predecessor (and company).

            Regardless of the disgusting trolls, I am proud that I come here. I feel smarter and more hopeful every time I visit.

            Reply
          3. Amelie October 12, 2013

            I have always voted democrat for president, but was all set to vote for McCain when he threw his hat in. And still would have, until he put Palin on the ticket. That made my mind up. Any Democrat on the ticket would get my vote instead.

            Reply
          4. Dominick Vila October 12, 2013

            Don’t forget the Darth Vader of politics: Dick Cheney.

            Reply
        3. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

          What is so amazing is the fact that they cannot see the truth of your statement.

          Reply
      2. latebloomingrandma October 11, 2013

        Since you brought up Sister Sarah—John McCain can sound off on the extremists in his party and sound like the reasonable guy, but he will always bear the burden of foisting caribou Barbie on this nation by his very poorly thought out decision to make her his VP candidate. Little did he know the destruction she was capable of. He had a hand in this tea party monstrosity he now laments.

        Reply
        1. Allan Richardson October 11, 2013

          And the Red Queen came down from Alaska, strolled into the Tea Party, and screamed at the Mad Hatter, “Off with our heads!”

          Reply
          1. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            !!!

            Reply
        2. David Waggoner October 11, 2013

          caribou barbie—too funny LOL !

          Reply
          1. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            Amen to that!

            Reply
    2. TZToronto October 11, 2013

      Actually, life expectancy in the U.S. isn’t among the lowest in the world. It’s among the lowest in the Western world, perhaps. Since so many people think the U.S. has the best health care system in the world, why aren’t they asking why life expectancy in the U.S. isn’t around 90-95 years? Here’s why: If they ask the question, they’ll get an answer that says that so many people have no health insurance that they die much earlier than they should. These uninsured can’t get ongoing treatment for diseases, and they tend to die without treatment. When 46 million people have no health insurance, this lowers the average life expectancy. The truth is that the U.S. probably has the best medical technology in the world, not the best health care in the world.

      As for the rest of the issue here, how about making all subsidies that corporations get from the federal government the first thing to disappear if the debt ceiling doesn’t get raised ? Then we’ll see how fast the crises get resolved. If corporations can’t get their handouts, they’ll start screaming pretty quickly. And they’ll know who’s responsible.

      Reply
      1. Independent1 October 11, 2013

        America’s life expectancy is down compared to other countries not only due to shotcomings in its healthcare deliverance but also to the GOP governance of Red States. Republicans governing Red States cut budgets and socially related programs so far that they apparently not only don’t make an effort to teach their residents good eating habits (many of the states with very low longevity projections are those who insist on continuing their tradition for good old Southern Cooking which depends on frying many foods which is unhealthy); and they’re budget cutting also results in reduced police presence and help for the poor which makes Red State mortality rates for auto accidents, firearms deaths and infant mortality much higher than in Blue States.

        Here are some statistics I’ve compiled using government tables that shows that on average, residents of Blue States live over 2 years longer than residents of Red States, and in some cases – comparing residents of MS, AL, W. VA & LA to those in NY, CT, Mass., Calif, MN, HI, VT, NH & NJ there’s a difference of 5 years between living to 75 in those Red States, to 80 in those Blue States.

        Here are some additional statistics on why America’s longevity rate is much lower than many other similar countries in the world:

        Homicides in the US are much higher than anywhere else in the world because so many Americans own guns and although the occurrence of violent acts are very similar in other nations, Americans end up dead while outside of America they end up in the hospital:

        -15 of the 20 states with the highest average rates of homicide over
        the past 5 years are GOP-RUN STATES?? With Louisiana being by far the murder capital of America.
        -23 of the 25 states in the nation with the highest highway fatality
        rates ARE GOP-RUN STATES; with Montana having the most fatalities followed by Louisiana, West Virginia, S. Carolina, Miss.
        -All 20 of the states with the highest firearms mortality rates ARE ALL GOP-RUN STATES. With Louisiana leading the nation in firearms mortality followed by Wyoming, Alabama, Montana and Mississippi.
        -All 15 of the states with the lowest life expectancy in the U.S. ARE
        GOP-RUN STATES?? Such that there is a large disparity in longevity between Red States and Blue States. Starting with lesser longevity projections of 75 in Miss., W. Va., Ala. & LA. , to 76 in: Arkansas, Kentucky & Tennessee to 77 in: S. Carolina, Georgia, Missouri,
        Indiana, Ohio & N. Carolina while no Blue State has a longevity projection less than 78. And many Blue states have longevity projected to 80 and over: N.J., N.H., Vermont, N.Y., Mass., Calif.,
        CT, Minn. & Hawaii?? (While only one red state has longevity projected to 80 Utah (80.2), 2 Blue States have longevity projections of over 81 –Minn. & Hawaii)

        Reply
        1. TZToronto October 11, 2013

          Pretty convincing, isn’t it?

          Reply
          1. Independent1 October 11, 2013

            Yes, and that’s only the longevity example of bad GOP governance. Here are a few more stats that make GOP governance look even worse:

            -20 of the 23 states that have more than 15% of their population
            struggling with incomes below the poverty level are GOP-RUN STATES? The only Blue States in the top 23 are California, New Mexico, and New York. While in contrast for 2013, the 8 states with the highest average incomes, including the 3 with the highest minimum wage standard, are all Blue States!!

            This high level of poverty in Red States leads to the following:

            – 75% of food stamp recipients live in GOP-RUN states? (6 of the top 10 food stamp-using states are GOP-RUN states and beyond that the greatest food stamp using states are the sparsely populated red states.) Also consider this : of the 456 counties in America that use more than 90% of all food stamps, 421 of those counties voted for Romney in the 2012 election.

            – The top 5 states that lead the nation in violent crime are all GOP-run states led now by Tennessee and followed by South Carolina, Nevada, Louisiana and Florida.

            And even with respect to sucking federal aid dollars, GOP-run states come out looking poorly:

            -12 of the 15 states that suck the most federal aid for the tax dollars they send to Washington are GOP-run states. And of the 17 states that get back less tax dollars in federal aid than they send to Washington in tax revenues, ONLY 3 OF THEM ARE GOP RUN STATES?? All 10 of the states that get the least federal aid for the taxes they pay ARE BLUE STATES??
            And even with respect to public-employee crime, it’s Red States that lead the nation in corrupt public officials:
            9 of the 12 states with 6 or more public servants per 10,000 public employees convicted of corruption are GOP-run states led by Louisina with 10.5,

            Reply
          2. Germansmith October 11, 2013

            And you king of the statistics, I will ask a question
            Why would a tory NH or Vermont or Ct resident with his equally tory neighbors know or care about the welfare fraud committed by thousand of people receiving SSDI, Food Stamps and all sort of government benefits without really deserving them?
            For most of them (as it was for me in my naïve years) is GOOD to help the poor.
            It is the people of those RED states as you call us (I live in Florida) that see those abuses daily and remember that these people are receiving these free goodies from taxes that I pay and taxes that my children and grandchildren will pay (because we are borrowing money for it)
            Precisely because all of the corruption we see in our states and with state and federal workers is because we want to see those programs curtailed until the system is clean up.

            Reply
          3. Independent1 October 11, 2013

            And there you go blowing BS again. Several groups did studies on fraud in the food stamp, SSDI and other programs and the level of fraudulent use of those programs is monumentally low cosidering – IT IS LESS THAN 1.5% OF THOSE RECEIVING THE BENEFITS!! Although 1.5% still adds up to a pretty fair number abusing the program when you’re dealing with a program that supplies food stamps to 47 million people, more than 75% of the residents of RED STATES, 1.5% for a government run program is exceptionally low!!! You sure you don’t also post under the name MontanBill??? Because you’re about as shortsighted as he is!!!

            Reply
          4. Allan Richardson October 11, 2013

            Far more money is wasted in tax loopholes to the rich than in the relief programs for the poor. In fact, the rate of “welfare fraud” is so low that welfare administrator have decided that adding even more fraud-prevention and fraud-detection procedures would cost MORE THAN THE FRAUD, and leave more DESERVING, truly needy unassisted than there already are. And what happens to families that lose absolutely necessary aid? Some members of those families will go into crime; some will grow up so poorly educated (and poorly nourished) that they will be more likely to be criminals; and some, probably the older women and small children, will starve to death.

            Rather than the people in blue states being “oblivious to the fraud” that isn’t really happening, they actually have a moral compass that points toward all of us being part of a community. Did you ever read John Donne’s essay “No Man is an Island?” Look it up, read it, compare it to what your Bible says, before you respond to this post.

            Reply
          5. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            Idiocy…
            You are comparing the LEGAL USE OF LOOPHOLES put in place by SHlTHEADS like Reid, Pelosi, et al,
            TO
            FRAUD, which is an illegal act…
            So you’re lying, and doing so willingly & knowingly, right ?
            LEGAL USE & following of THE LAW versus FRAUD…
            10th grade… ?
            Maybe 11th ?

            Reply
          6. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            Dear Cancel_TRUTH: Actually, most all the usual posters here are reasonably well educated. Unlike yourself, obviously.

            We, that is the more educated posters, do not always agree with one another. Yet, we make our decisions and views based on evidence.

            You on the other hand, make your decisions and views based on your ignorance and bigotry. Then you create, or let some talking-head spoon feed, the evidence to prove you are right. That is why you are the greedy, racist, bigot that you claim to be.

            Besides that, you are a bold-faced LIAR that makes spacious claims without any evidence of proof. 🙂

            Reply
          7. Germansmith October 11, 2013

            And because is so LOWWWWW the senate have a ongoing investigation on SSDI fraud.
            Care to quote me from your bag of magical statistics how much Medicare and Medicaid fraud is going on? Because I lived in Miami and I see your “mythical, does not happen” fraud every day
            You are either the most naïve individual that exist or your inability to see facts is a chronic disease.
            “Several groups” “Government Statistics”
            You are full of BS and if you guys are happy with your circular masturbating club, be my guest to come up with more statistics to prove whatever you want….still BS

            Reply
          8. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            If the system was perfect, you would still be carping. You do not need any evidence of fraud. You will always do a “just saying” like your idol Cruz.

            T-pottiers have allergies to truth, fact, and common decency.

            Reply
          9. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            I think we all know that if there was no fraud at all, Krautscheiss would still be totally against any program aiding the poor.

            Reply
          10. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            Bullshlt… Aiding the poor has NEVER been opposed…
            Aiding those who YOU WILL DESIGNATE AS POOR, so that you can buy their votes, IS OPPOSED…
            LIve with it…
            WHO, would advocate allowing ILLEGAL ALIENS to vote, in a country in which they actually have NO RIGHT to be, if not in pursuit of election manipulation…
            We’re not buying your BULLSHlT anymore…
            We’re not buying your RACIST bullshlt anymore…
            We’re not buying your GREEDY bullshlt anymore…
            17 Trillion…
            Thanx BOZO…

            Reply
          11. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            So what you are saying is you intend to remain greedy and racist. Why am I not surprised.

            No one has advocated letting illegal aliens to vote. Please give a citation that is not a RUMOR started by Flush Limpbag, Fake News, or Freitfart, etc.

            “Aiding those who YOU WILL DESIGNATE AS POOR,” will starve millions and drive us to a revolution. OH, that’s right, that is what you treasonous scum want.

            Dirtbags like you never did “buy” anything that might promote decency and common sense. So, I really do hope that your hate swells up in you and you stroke out. If I can assist you to that end, please feel free to consult me. . . .

            Reply
          12. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            The fraud is in the MILLIONS, if not BILLIONS and yet you are still espousing the virtues…
            It’s BROKEN…
            It SHOULD be fixed…
            it WON’T as long as YOUR messiah has followers who can’t admit it…
            FIVE YEARS…
            Live with it…
            DEBT at 17 TRILLION…
            Your punk-aas in the whitehouse is a FAILURE…
            Howz that Obama-Care registration going for you ???
            Howz that PENALTY working for you, that you WILL PAY, FOR NOT BUYING SOMETHING… ???

            CAN YOU SEE YOUR BREAKFAST ??
            Your head is certainly far enough up there to be able to do so…

            Reply
          13. Independent1 October 13, 2013

            Your whole post is pure BS! It’s not me that has my head in the wrong place it’s Faux News sheeple such as yourself:
            – Any government program that provides benefits in the multi-multi billions is going to have abuses and 1.5% estimated abuse is very low for any program, whether run by government or the private sector (government does a much better job than the private sector)
            – Last 5 years – YUP!! Let me list just a few accomplishments that fare exceed ANYTHING BUSH ACCOMPLISHED IN 8 YEARS!!
            – Auto idustry saved from bankruptcy, saving America and the world from another GOP created depression – resulting in the industry recording greater profits today than at any time during Bush’s 8 disasterous years. Also, saving 1.5 million Ameridcan jobs with more than 150 billion in taxes brought in from auto industry related taxpayers that would have gone to China if Romney had his way.
            – The war in Iraq ended as promised saving hundreds of American soldiers their lives and billions in deficit spending reduced.
            – The stock market at the highest levels in history for more than a year making retirement for people like me far better than during any of the previous 8 years.
            – More fraudulently charged monies recovered and crooks brought to justice in the defensde and healthcare industries than any two previous presidents combined recovered (billions).
            – More high school students able to afford college because Obama took it upon himself to cut banks out of the loan process making loans more affordable.
            – More jobs created in the past 5 years than Bush was able to create in 8; resulting in deficit spending dropping faster than at any time since WWII (Obama actually kept his promise of cutting deficit spending virtually in half over 4 years (Bush left him a budget with 1.3 trillion in deficit spending which he reduced to 673Billion for fiscal year 10/1/12 to 9/30/13).
            – The first healthcare law passed that will provide 40-50 milllion Americans with affordable insurance – with rates reduced by as much as 50% in more than a dozen states that have done an honest job of creating the insurance exchanges; NY, Vt, NH, MN and a number of other states anouncing 50% rate reductions with the average premium across the country being $328/month. With even red states like Texas offering coverage with rates 1/2 the national average.
            And you talk about the penalty – how many familie do you think are going to be bankrupted by a penallty that averages at $195/yr????

            – And if you’re concerned about the 17 trillion debt, send Reagan and the two Bushes a nasty note for being responsible for more than 90% of it!!!!!!!

            You really need to stop drinking the Faux News Koolaid!!!.

            Reply
          14. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            Fraud across the board is < 1%, even after many investigations by right-wacko naysayers.

            In a nation where medical care is so incredibly expensive, why would you want to be uninsured?

            What you are saying is, the penalty is an onerous infringement on your freedom. Yet, if you get hit by a train (oh joy!), then my tax dollars should be used to put your nasty ass back together again.

            Not if I can help it, Humpty-Dumpty.

            Reply
          15. nirodha October 11, 2013

            So, when you were naive (your term) you thought it was good to help the poor, but now that you live in a red state, it’s NOT good to help the poor? How did you ever become so enlightened? Save us sane folk from your kind of compassion! And what’s with the tories? You must be a whig!

            Reply
          16. Germansmith October 11, 2013

            I can see you read, but do not comprehend the statement
            Much rather use the words to give it a twisted meaning
            Where are you, in high school?
            Critical thinker? really. is that what you say to yourself every time you look into a mirror.
            As with Syria and many other subjects, time will prove me right and I know that I will never change your mind and I….do not care
            Good Day Sir

            Reply
          17. TZToronto October 11, 2013

            Huh?

            Reply
          18. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            SPIN
            RANT
            LIE
            LIE
            RANT
            SPIN
            RANT
            LIE
            SPIN
            . . .

            Reply
          19. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            YOUR president is a punk-aas liar…
            Live with it…

            Reply
          20. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            Get off your “aas” and get a job. At least, go outside and see what the real world is like. Fresh air and a walk would be amazing for you. Might get enough blood up to your brain to make it start functioning.

            Reply
          21. Independent1 October 13, 2013

            Would you care try listing some of those supposed lies punk face!! Or maybe it would be better when you grow out of you diapers!!!

            Reply
          22. David Waggoner October 15, 2013

            you forgot:
            Dry
            Fluff
            Fold

            Reply
          23. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            GermanSmith: These socialist, confiscatory RATS don’t deserve the show of respect, “sir”.
            That is why my language is so strong & vile toward them…
            They’ve been telling us for DECADES that we are greedy, racist & bigoted because we want to keep more of our earnings because we sacrificed large portions of your lives to get to a point where we LEGALLY have the things & security we’ve pursued…
            YOU suck, because you DON’T WANT TO TOLERATE FRAUD…
            You’re a racist because you MERELY OPPOSE FRAUD WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT INVOLVE PEOPLE OF A DIFFERENT SKIN COLOR THAN YOU…
            17 TRILLION bothers you because you’re a racist…
            Got it ?

            Reply
          24. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            Actually, you are vile. . . .

            You even seem to be cussing Germansmith. You definitely need to develop a thought pattern, at the very least. Like I said before, you seem to be headed for a stroke. At least, you are headed to one of those formal “white jacket and tie” affairs. You know, the ones hosted by the guys in the white coats. 🙂

            Reply
          25. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Nice retort, RB. Check out what Germ has been ranting about with me and get a real laugh. Think he needs to go back to whatever country he hailed from. Certainly doesn’t use his brain to be objective but rather begins with assumptions and refuses to accept he is wrong on even the most minor things.

            Reply
          26. Independent1 October 13, 2013

            You keep bringing up the 17T American debt nitwit – as I told you before, if you don’t like it, send Reagan and the two Bushes a nasty note – THEY ARE CLEARLY RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE THAN 90% OF IT!!!! And go take a hike will you – we don’t need obvious scumbags such as yourself on the NM!!!

            Reply
          27. Independent1 October 13, 2013

            OHH!! And you mentioned fraud!! You mean like when Bush and Cheney started the Iraq war based on lies and distortions just so Cheney could hand out no-bid contracts to all his defense industry buddies like Haliburton, Blackwater and tons more so they could defraud America of Billions/Trillions of dollars??? Like when Haliburton got caught charging $100/gal for gas to fill up jeeps?? That kind of fraud?? And when Cheney met secretly with reps of Big Oil and Big Coal so the Bush Administration could enacted legislation that allowed these industries to rip of the American taxpayers for Billions more??? Is that the kind of fraud you’re talking about????

            Reply
          28. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Yeah!!!

            Reply
          29. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            Read it again, aashat…
            HE DID NOT say anything about it being “not good” to help the poor…
            That is how you obama-morons manipulate…
            BEING OPPOSED TO FRAUD IN THE SYSTEM WHICH HELPS THE POOR IS NOT BEING OPPOSED TO HELP THE POOR…
            17 TRILLION is NOT helping ANY poor people…
            ASK YOUR messiah about that…
            Ask that punk-aas about Solyndra while you’re at it…
            Ask him why we can’t see the records from F & F…
            Ask him why the Benghazi witnesses can’t be reached…
            THEN, take another BIG BITE of that SHlT SANDWICH that you’ve been fed by your socialist, alinsky-following moron…

            Reply
          30. nirodha October 13, 2013

            It would appear that you couldn’t get laid last night because you were too drunk, so you’ve stumbled onto this site and are venting your spleen on people who can actually form cogent arguments. You certainly can’t; I have no idea what you’re ranting on about. Sober up, clean up your mouth, and go on back to your TPotty friends.

            Reply
          31. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            Fraud = 1% or less.

            I have seen better turds than you floating in our local treatment facility.

            Reply
          32. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Have another drink “bozo”…Your hate is like a fungus and quite palable. Have some Cymbalta while you chug down that brew! HAHA!

            Reply
          33. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Jack Hole!

            Reply
          34. Michael Kollmorgen October 11, 2013

            I’d be fully willing to bet even IF we cut all the fraud and mismanagement that is purported to be done in the name of SSDI, it wouldn’t make that much of a difference in the overall total payments that is sent out by the program.

            You’re looking for a needle in a haystack, then blowing it way out of proportion as far as these federal programs.

            Florida has been known for many years to be one of the most corrupt states out of all 50 states. So, if you want to blame someone, blame your own state hacks for letting it go on.

            Since I live in Ohio, I see crap go on all the time. So, to me, Ohio is a close second. I lived in Ft. Lauderale back in the mid 70s. I got out of Florida real quick due to the low wages and just plain nasty people down there. And, Ohio now isn’t much better.

            Reply
          35. Germansmith October 11, 2013

            Michael
            Well, yes, our local state hacks are world class. I think they would outclass any Mexican hacks they would compete against, but
            You may be surprise of the SSDI fraud.
            It is kind of the new welfare/ long term unemployment benefits with companies sending prospecting letters for my wife to apply every other week.
            Actually Florida is Medicare/Medicaid fraud territory, but there is a current Senate investigation of federal judges and lawyers in the state of West Virginia.
            If Ohio not much better, at least in Miami we have the beaches and the multicultural influence that makes life interesting.

            Reply
          36. ThomasBonsell October 11, 2013

            Here’s the real fraud with food stamps.

            There is an almost identical number of people in poverty and on food stamps.

            When Eisenhower left office, 22.5% of Americans were in poverty. When LBJ left office, poverty was down to 12% (how’s that for the claim that the War on Poverty was a failure?). Nixon kept LBJ’s programs in place and poverty inched down until Carter had it at 11.4%

            Then came the Reagan disaster in which poverty was 15.1% when Papa Bush left office. Clinton brought poverty down to11.3%. the lowest in history until Buffoon Bush shot it up past 15% again, where it has remained for at least six years while the GOP refuses to do anything to help alleviate the problem. The difference between Clinton’s ll.3% and the 15.1% of Reagan and the Bushs is about 12 million Americans.

            You see, it is GOP governance that increases food-stamp use by millions of Americans when ever that party is in control.

            There’s your real fraud.

            Reply
          37. Germansmith October 12, 2013

            Thomas, statistic are only good if you really try to understand how they are put together, the reason they are put together and why the numbers turn out that way.
            You do realize that since Carter our economy has change to a world economy. You do realize that Clinton worked with Newt to give us a surplus and an strong economy?
            See, is my opinion that poverty is reduced by good jobs, not SSDI or welfare or food stamps.

            You are very simplistic. What if I tell you that the number of people that lived below the poverty level now is 16% after 5 full years of Obama Democratic rule? That is higher than Bush even after keeping interest rates down to the floor, a couple of QE to keep the value of the dollar down and billions in spending to keep the economy going.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

            Trillions of dollars are sitting in the cash reserves of America’s largest corporation waiting for the right time to invest. Why do you think they are not eagerly investing to grow?
            I know is silly to try to convince you that not all Republican is BAD and that not all Democratic ideas are GOOD and I am NOT going to suggest any answers….but, if I can move a couple of you to actually look for answers instead of blindly taking sides, it would be a good thing

            Reply
          38. ThomasBonsell October 12, 2013

            You spout a lot of nonsense.

            Corporations are not holding money waiting for a time to invest. They are holding money because three decades of Reaganomics have damaged their customers’ ability to buy. Corporations are not “investing to grow” because the customers just aren’t there thanks to the right driving wages down, busting unions to destroy well-paying jobs, moving jobs overseas or to starvation-level paying jobs in Dixie.

            Newt did not work with Clinton. Clinton inherited a $290-billion deficit from Papa Bush. His first budgets never received a single Republican vote. NOT ONE. When the deficit was down to $20 billion, the GOP saw which way things were going and started to jump on the bandwagon to claim credit for successes each and every one voted against.

            The rate if poverty today has been there for SIX-plus years. It reached that point during Bush’s disaster and has remained their because the GOP refuses to help improve the economy and now is arguing for more of the same insanity that prevents the economy from growing.

            You are not going to convince me of accepting nonsense, and it is you blindly taking sides.

            Reply
          39. Germansmith October 12, 2013

            Got it
            Republican never done anything good
            Democrats never done anything stupid
            I guess you are a yellow dog democrat and beyond redeeming. God forbid you can actually consider any other point of view.
            Sorry I do not waste time exchanging thought or facts with “true believers”

            Reply
          40. ThomasBonsell October 13, 2013

            Not a yellow dog Democrat just someone who has done the research and writes and speaks from a position of knowledge not from ideology, as you.

            You are only wasting your time if you believe you know more than those who have done extensive research and rely on fact when you only want to express opinion.

            Reply
          41. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            You get your “research” from the people you LOVE, and from whom you get “favorable” information…
            We are NEVER “wasting” our time when we are opposing your distribution of pure bullshlt…
            Live with it…
            YOUR messiah, that arrogant, alinsky-following punk-aas in the whitehouse won’t be happy until he’s got about 60% of incomes.
            Pay him, dumbshlt…

            Reply
          42. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            Nobody’s buying your BULLSHlT anymore, lefty…
            Five years of that arrogant, inexperienced little punk that you idolize…

            Check that idiot’s numbers…

            Reply
          43. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            Yeah. That’s why UNEMPLOYMENT is higher NOW than ANY OTHER time in history, except the Depression.
            Face it, dude…
            YOUR president has caused so much job loss that his SOCIALIST HELPERS had to STOP LISTING those who have QUIT LOOKING for work, otherwise the unemployment would be 20 %…
            Youth unemployment in some cities under democrat governing is NEARING 50%…
            Explain that one with your obama-facts…

            Reply
          44. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            I am hoping that those in the Coal states, where that idiot in the whitehouse has proposed AND CAUSED THE LOSS of coal-related jobs, will vote against Hilllary…
            Probably not though…
            The Socialist scum trying to get her elected will manipulate the “facts” to show that President Bush FORCED that MORON in the whitehouse to eliminate their jobs AND their industry AND their way of life.

            Reply
          45. charleo1 October 13, 2013

            Feel better? Think your Faux News, faux facts, and denials
            of what actually happened to the world economy 5 years ago,
            is convincing anyone outside of the propaganda filled fringe?
            What to know how ridiculously wrong you are? I’m guessing
            not really. Because it’s very important to the people who are playing you, that you not get too curious. Because then, you might find some of those, “facts,” you’re throwing around,
            are not adding up. Not squaring with reality, when you do
            the one thing, they are counting on you not doing. Using your
            own common sense. Look, Barack Obama did not kill the
            coal industry. The free market killed coal. Natural gas is more
            abundant, cheaper, burns cleaner, has less by product than
            coal. So, the electric utility companies, the largest customers
            of the coal industry, are retrofitting their coal fired plants, and
            building new natural gas ones. Now, if they lied to me, like
            somebody’s been lying to you. Want to be a Right Winger?
            Fine. But just continuing to bash, and bash Obama, who will
            after all, be out of office in a little more than 3 years. Doesn’t
            seem like a productive use of one’s time. Why not demand
            your Party quit shutting down the government, threatening
            default, and actually have something they are for, besides
            obstruction. Tell them, they are no longer protesters, with silly signs marching around Washington. They’ve been elected to govern. Ask them, what they are going to do with that?

            Reply
          46. Susan Love October 11, 2013

            Part of the problem with welfare benefits is that a lot of people grow up thinking it’s a way of life not a temporary lifeline when things go wrong. Something that has needed to be addressed and has been for a long time.

            Reply
          47. Germansmith October 12, 2013

            Susan
            You will find that the first thing we need to get it fix is for Democrats to acknowledge that the system is broken.
            I do not want to eliminate Welfare, or Food Stamps or SSDI, but if somebody needs help (and money from us) we should establish a holistic approach and have counselors work with those recipients to help them get out of the bad place they are in (education, financial discipline, job) so they do not become permanent wards of government money.
            (kind of the way the olden day church communities used to do locally)
            In a nut shell…if you want our money, we will be in your life to help you fix it and consequences for not trying to help yourself.

            Reply
          48. dpaano October 14, 2013

            Germansmith: And where do we get the money to hire these counselors, etc.? The GOP has sliced and diced our government down to almost nothing when it comes to things like this. You can’t get these things without spending; something GOP’er’s don’t particular like to do, especially when it’s something that would actually HELP the economy in the long run!

            Reply
          49. Germansmith October 14, 2013

            How we used to do things in this country before every task became a federal job with benefits.
            Volunteers
            I rather trust Mr. Burk retired businessman tired of playing golf and willing to share his experience than any Shaun, Latrika or Manuel with a 2 weeks training course.
            Besides, I have a feeling that a lot of those “needy” may not be willing to accept Uncle Sam’s money if it comes with scrutiny of their lives and a random occasional drug test.

            Reply
          50. Michael Kollmorgen October 12, 2013

            We see on TV and hear on Radio constantly companies that will help you get SSDI. It’s become a national Epidemic.

            I don’t know who’s worse, the lawyers who run these businesses or the people who use them to get SSDI unlawfully.

            Yea, I did like the beaches. We rented a Mobil Home in Plantation, worked in Lauderale. The landlord fumigated the place before we moved in. Hah, that didn’t last long. I was sleeping on the floor cause we didn’t have any furniture yet. Woke up one morning, a haze was about 3 inches thick on the floor. All sort of little, very little bugs all over the friggin place. That’s really when I decided to get the hell out of Florida.

            In Jacksonville (I assume everyone in Florida though) their Cockroaches grow to 50 cent piece size on the warfs. Step on em, they laugh at you and walk away.

            I got to admit, those Lizards are sort of cute crawling right up the side of the buildings:)

            I was really amazed how they do Night Time Shark Fishing down there. They use enough Bait to serve a 4 person dinner up here at one sitting. They use a inflated Garbage Bag with the bait and hook under it. Float it out to sea. Once it gets far enough, they yank the line, bag floats away and your set.

            Though I would imagine, the bag isn’t doing the environment any good.

            Alligator Alley was neat as hell, especially at night.

            Reply
          51. Independent1 October 12, 2013

            It’s probably Florida that accounts for 1 percent of the 1.5% of fraud the study groups found in the SSDI program.

            Reply
          52. Germansmith October 12, 2013

            And now we also have Pythons, Boa Constrictor, Monitor Lizards from Africa, Nutrias and all sort of invading species including transplanted New Yorkers who now call South Florida their home.
            We do like the transplanted Canadians and Venezuelans and Brazilians that are now also moving here in waves

            Reply
          53. Sand_Cat October 11, 2013

            How do you “know” about it?

            Reply
          54. 4sanity4all October 12, 2013

            And if you are so sure that you know cheaters, have you ever made a call to the authorities to have your suspicions checked out, Germansmith? If not, then you are guilty of fraud, for letting it go on. Most likely, the people you see collecting it have a very legit reason to get it, but you are just disgruntled because they don’t tell nosy people like you the reason they get it.

            Reply
          55. patuxant October 13, 2013

            He doesn’t give a crap. He thinks he is “ethical”. Me thinks he protesteth too very much!

            Reply
          56. Fred Morris October 12, 2013

            This One Fact About Welfare Makes White People Look Lazy

            September 21, 2013 News, ybw 11

            In so far as divisive political issues go, welfare is the gift that just keeps on giving. Mainly, that’s because some on the right have done a masterful job of convincing ordinary white people that slothful African-Americans and Latinos are eating at a troth filled with goodies amassed by hard working “salt of the earth” white people.

            During the 2012 campaign for president, candidate Rick Santorum said “I don’t want to make black people’s lives better by giving them other people’s money.” Newt Gingrich piled on adding, “I will tell black people to demand paychecks instead of food stamps.” And, of course, President Obama, the first black president, was roundly mocked as the first food stamp president, as the photoshopped image above illustrates.

            The is what we call demagoguery, but the only problem is that the facts don’t bear out this rhetoric. There is one fact that blows this whole “Welfare Queen” theory out of the water:

            1) According to the New York Times blacks comprise 22 percent of the poor, but blacks only take in 14 percent of government benefits. Conversely, whites make up 42 percent of the poor , but take in a disproportionate 69 percent of government benefits.

            Here are a few other facts you should consider as well:

            2) Although minorities are disproportionately poorer than their white counterparts, poor people only receive 36 percent of benefits in 2007, down from 54 percent in 1979.

            3) Wealthy people, who are disproportionately white, receive a higher share of corporate welfare and other tax benefits:

            Yet, even with this flow of capital going to the wealthy, including recent revelations that the rich have taken the overwhelming share of recovery dollars post- recession, there are still no jobs. What are the Idle Rich up to anyway?

            4). The Republican Party is overwhelmingly white, and according to Bloomberg, Republican heavy counties ate up most of the food stamp growth:

            Seventy percent of counties with the fastest-growth in food-stamp aid during the last four years voted for the Republican presidential candidate in 2008, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture data compiled by Bloomberg.

            This is not to say that white people are lazy. That would pathologize whites in much the same way that blacks have been pathologized for decades, if not centuries. The point is that data always cuts both ways. The only reason a large swath of whites believe that blacks are slackers with no will to work is because both the media and public have been complicit in allowing biased data to drive the conversation. We should end that.

            Reply
          57. Germansmith October 12, 2013

            Mr. Morris

            Where in my post do you read anything about the race of the welfare recipients or fraudsters? As long as you steal money from government plans design to help those who really need them….all those stealing are scum no matter what is the color of their skin.

            Are you being sensitive than when I talk about welfare/SSDI or food stamps fraud I am trying to point it to black people?

            By the way, If you want the REAL numbers, you should not trust the New York Times, try this below instead, they come from the US Dept of Commerce and not from a paper with a dubious reputation.
            http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

            Reply
          58. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            GS: It’s IMMATERIAL as to whether you actually referred to race.
            YOU HAVE AN OPPOSING VIEW, AND ACCORDINGLY YOU ARE A RACIST, BIGOT, ET AL, SO THAT YOU’RE FACTUAL POSITION IS DENIGRATED…

            And how dare you shlt on the “Old Grey Lady” ???
            ( Socialist / democrat / moron term of endearment for the new york times, one of the most leftist publications in history )

            Reply
          59. newhope4all October 12, 2013

            Well spoken.

            Reply
          60. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            17 TRILLION, Mr. Van Winkle…

            Reply
          61. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            You are just another right-wacko sock puppet. And we all know where your loving masters put their hand in. Bet they don’t even give you any “grease.”

            Reply
          62. Cancel_NPR October 13, 2013

            Germansmith: Save yur breath… These obama-supporting socialists who support CONFISCATION of MORE of your income, and the suspension of MORE of your rights so that the UN can be worth something, AREN’T LISTENING…
            YOU, are greedy because you want to keep more of what you’ve built thru your 18-hour work regimen…
            YOU, are therefore RACIST because SOME of the people getting more out of your backpocket, happen to be of a different color than you…
            YOU are “big business” if you hire people, and accordingly because your employees CAN’T afford the things you can, YOU need to distribute more of what you EARN, because THEY DON’T HAVE WHAT YOU DO…
            SUMMARY: The leftist / socialist aasholes hereon, will not be happy until you make EXACTLY what each of your employees make, AND YOU REMAIN RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SUCCESS OF THE BIZ…

            Reply
          63. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Wawawawa!! Cry baby whiner!!

            Reply
          64. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Wow! Impressive! An asshole who can’t even spell the word right. Go back to your sauce…And by the way, all of us “lefties” out here pity your sorry butt for having an illness you can help having…stupidity.

            Reply
          65. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            Totally agree about the illness, they CAN help having a case of stupidity. They enjoy being eaten up with the Dumb.

            You can lead one of these rats to knowledge, but you can’t make them think.

            Reply
          66. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Why don’t you and Germ have a cluster together?

            Reply
          67. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            I would not want to be around when the blessed “issue” from that “event” arrives. Probably will look and act like the creature from “Alien.”

            Reply
          68. dpaano October 14, 2013

            Amazing and certainly eye-opening!

            Reply
        2. Germansmith October 11, 2013

          And nevertheless we spend more per capita for healthcare that ANY other country in the world.
          What does that tell you about our system?
          Why should we pour more money in it when it is that inefficient?

          Your very free and improper use of statistics does not take in consideration other factors that also increase mortality and morbidity like race, level of education, level of wealth, population concentration and so much more.
          How can we blame the Republicans for highway fatalities? Do each state have a say in what safety equipment are in our vehicles.
          Regarding firearms fatalities in some states….maybe they vote Republican because they like their 2nd amendment right and maybe those states have a very large population of minorities using guns to earn respect….regarding Wyoming, maybe is Cheney still shooting people at random.
          I think what a lot of people here fails to understand that Democracy and Capitalism can only survive in a very precarious balance between security and freedom.
          For some people freedom is more important and they are willing to live with the consequences of bad times in life as long as they are also able to move above the fray with smarts and hard work, these people will normally vote Republican.
          For some people, safety and security are more important and are willing to sacrifice some freedoms and potential rise to get it. These people will normally vote Democrat.
          That is what the argument is all about. How much government we want in our life?, how much are we going to sacrifice for?
          It is worth it? and my last question is where are we going to get the money to pay for it and what is the future of a country that spends more money that it makes?

          Reply
          1. nirodha October 11, 2013

            Independent1 cites his sources; what is your basis for categorizing those who value freedom normally voting republican and those who value security normally voting democrat? These are broad over generalizations with no apparent foundation in fact. If you’ve got sources for these kinds of unsubstantiated statements, please cite them. Otherwise, please don’t post this drivel, it’s annoying to critical thinkers.

            Reply
          2. Germansmith October 11, 2013

            Is really beyond my care if you are annoyed or not.
            If somebody is free to publish statistics with citing a particular source, I am equally free to draw generalization from my own observations, I trust them more that possibly bias poolers creating statistics to add weight to their point of view
            Now, if you do not like them, you are free not to read my post.
            I think you are critical…..thinker, not so much

            Reply
          3. nirodha October 11, 2013

            Well, you draw whatever conclusions you want, regardless of their basis in fact. That is a hallmark of sloppy thinking, but that is your prerogative. You are correct that I am free not to read your musings. It is your thinking which is uncritical, but that’s OK. Opinions outweigh facts with right wing zealots.

            Reply
          4. Independent1 October 11, 2013

            Thanks!! People like Gernansmith just infuriate me because we have a lot of friends that live in Red States and it really irks me that Republicans are so hellbent on ignoring any fact someone gives them that proves their governing strategy of cutting budgets to the bone, reducing regulations, cutting social programs like Medicaid, etc, etc. are detrimental to the health, longevity and well being of their state’s residents (including many of our friends). Something has to wake them up!!!

            Reply
          5. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            My friend, I wish we could figure out what that is.

            Maybe, stick their heads in a steel bucket and then wail out it with a dead blow hammer for about twenty minutes. Yeah, it would be a waste of a perfectly good bucket and hammer.

            Reply
          6. newhope4all October 12, 2013

            I can’t figure out why people vote against their own best interest like the poor Republicans who live in virtual shacks with dead auto parts in the yard, old washing machines on the porch, meth labs in the kitchen while collecting welfare and doing without healthcare. Where are all the Republican Christian charity organizations that claim they will look after them because it’s not meant to be government’s role? No one is educating these people or looking out for them in any way, shape or form that I can see and they are easily exploited.

            Reply
          7. Independent1 October 13, 2013

            That makes two of us!! It’s hard to fathom why so many Americans don’t at least try to understand how the legislators they vote into office are affecting their own futures and well being.

            Reply
          8. nirodha October 13, 2013

            I had long wondered about the same thing; why the poor rural whites living in the south and Appalachia vote against their own self interest. There is racial animus there; remember when Lyndon Johnson got the Civil Rights Act passed in 1964, he commented that as a result, the democrats had lost the south for a generation. It looks today as if it will be a lot longer than LBJ thought. For some insight into this anti-self interest voting, read Joe Bageant’s “Deer Hunting With Jesus”. His observations explain a lot about poor southern whites and their voting habits.

            Reply
          9. patuxant October 13, 2013

            But this is their voting block. Inbred, chawing tobacco spitting porch rocking dimwits.

            Reply
          10. patuxant October 13, 2013

            He is a fool. Wouldn’t be surprised if he is a Glen Beck apostle. Yet he considers himself holier than thou geek who draws conclusions without knowing a wit about what he is talking about. He needs to lobotomy.

            Reply
          11. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            If we actually did what you say, would you bother to read the sources, anyway? If you did, and the truth was established, would your opinion alter to conform to the truth?

            I used to cite my sources, but I feel it is a waste of time since you cannot digest facts in any case. You right-tards are the most negative complainers ever seen by man.

            I find you to be a thinker, critical or otherwise, not at all.

            Reply
          12. Germansmith October 12, 2013

            Hello Byrd Brain….Nice to hear your nags again.
            Have a Nice Weekend!!

            Reply
          13. patuxant October 12, 2013

            You really get torqued when proven wrong. Do see majority of thumbs down on your rantings. Telling, no?

            Reply
          14. Lynnette Gentry October 12, 2013

            Exactly !! LOL

            Reply
          15. Germansmith October 12, 2013

            Did any argument proven me in any way wrong? Not so far
            Poverty percentage is higher now at 16% since any other Presidency since Eisenhower (this even according to

            Reply
          16. patuxant October 13, 2013

            You are one arrogant know-it-all chap, aren’t you? Your statement “Did any argument proven me in any way wrong? Not so far

            Weeks ago, I argued against intervening in Syria while you lefties were eager to get us into another stupid fray helping the dudes at Al Qaeda . Eventually I was proven correct when smarter guys than Obama and Kerry prevailed.”
            As far as I am concerned, you stepped in the big cow paddie with that one. Right now I am proving you wrong. I was also against going to Syria as well as going to Iraq. By the way, where were you on that one? I am an independent and by some considered liberal. So when you generalize so eagerly, I truly doubt your creds on anything else you say. All your other ramblings are pure conjecture and personal opinion.

            Reply
          17. nirodha October 13, 2013

            Germansmith apparently shoots from the hip without having done any fact-checking. It would seem that he either cannot, or will not distinguish right wing opinions from verifiable facts. A fact, if it fails to agree with his notions of how things are, becomes “an inconvenient truth”.

            Reply
          18. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Today he totally snapped and showed his true colors. Needs some real help in critical thinking but think it is a lost cause.

            Reply
          19. patuxant October 12, 2013

            Oh what a tangled web we weave…and my minds made up don’t confuse me with facts.

            Reply
          20. Independent1 October 11, 2013

            Oh! so now like a typical Republican with blinders on, we’re going to dispell all the statistics that show they way the govern is a disaster – because IT HAS TO BE THE PEOPLE!! What BS!!
            The excess highway deaths couldn’t be due to the fact that GOP states relax the rules related to getting a license so people are driving who have no business being on the road, could it??
            Or states that have cut budgets so far they don’t have enough cops on the road to keep people from excessive speeding which has been proven to kill, could it??

            or States that have increased their max speed allowances like Montana which now leads the nation in motor vehicle deaths could it??

            Or they could be states like Mississippi which one group voted as having the worst roadways on the planet, could it?? Or even like Texas whoese highways were voted 47th in America and were nothing more than an accident waiting to happen!!!

            Keep on with the blinders on and refuse to believe the statistics – I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that 23 of the 25 states with more people dying on the highway – is all the fault of those states residents – what utter garbage!!! You’re a bigger nitwit than I even first thought!!!

            Reply
          21. nirodha October 11, 2013

            I second the nitwit observation! He lives in a red state so he’s most likely either defensive about your stats, or too stupid to understand, or both.

            Reply
          22. Germansmith October 11, 2013

            You really do not what the numbers mean, do you?
            The only thing that is important is that is a Red state and it can be blame on those “dammed Republicans”
            Maybe those Republican states get more hurricanes and tornados because God is a Democrat and is angry at the Red States?…I am sure you can push that argument here and the “critical thinkers” here would go along with that as well.
            And here we go the final conclusion from those people that do not have any facts to win the argument…an insult
            Well, I love all my brothers and sisters even if they are misguided and even if they are living of government’s largesse

            Reply
          23. TZToronto October 11, 2013

            I think that is God had a party affiliation it would be Socialist. Doesn’t God love all his creatures? Republicans (at least the Tea Party variety) don’t.

            Reply
          24. Germansmith October 11, 2013

            Depends
            If is the jealous God of the Jews, he is a fascist or a Nazi, he did not approve of any other God and he was just concerned about his “Chosen People” and killed everybody else.
            If he/she is the God of the Christians after Jesus was born, he is definitely a communist because everybody with him had to be poor asking for food and shelter wherever they went.
            I wonder how many angry comments I will get from this

            Reply
          25. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            I think rather than anger, you should get pity for your stupidity and bigotry. However, since you are an extremely unsympathetic individual, I doubt if you will get much pity.

            Reply
          26. TZToronto October 12, 2013

            It’s hard to say which God is the one who’s in charge, but we generally think of a benevolent deity these days. That may be more a funaction of socially acceptable sentiments. Perhaps the angry God is the real one. Who’s to say? So since we cannot know the unknowable, let’s assume that kindness to all is a better course of action than cruelty to all. If sometake advantage of the kindness of others, does that make it right to deprive the truly needy? Perhaps you think so, but i don’t.

            Reply
          27. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Don’t even bother with this one, TZT. He is a fanatic and has no objectivity. Some of the crap he unloaded on me told me alot about his motivations. Self-righteous, arrogant, non-objective, name caller and generalizer. In other words, he is an ass.

            Reply
          28. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Really none because we already know you cannot logic through anything.

            Reply
          29. nirodha October 11, 2013

            I don’t know that god exists, but I am pretty sure that Jesus was a socialist.

            Reply
          30. Russell Byrd October 12, 2013

            That is rather odd, don’t you think? There are more than a few red-staters that blame every disaster, especially in blue states, on a vengeful god dissatisfied with heathen Liberals.

            Reply
          31. patuxant October 13, 2013

            BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!

            Reply
          32. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            You know, I overheard several Pubs the other day, going off about when Obama urged everyone to save gas by checking their tires. The sneering, arrogant griping was idiotic.

            Just think, these people berate something even the manufacturers have told us for years to do, in order to save expensive fuel and tires (and increase safety), just because a black Democratic man suggested they do so.

            As the late Casey Stengel said. “amazing, simply amazing.” By the way, that is supposed to be how the Mets came to be called “Amazin’.”

            Reply
          33. sigrid28 October 12, 2013

            Another irony is that Red state Republicans love them their gas guzzling ATVs, pick-up trucks with trailers and matching boats, old/classic cars, new/bright yellow cars, tricked out RTVs, vans and jeeps, leaf-blowers and giant lawn mowers–a vehicle for every occasion, like an accessory. They should sneer, they should talk. They are playing right into pockets of Big Oil and Gas and the banks making interest off the loans for all of these kinds of redneck extravagances, donating money to run candidates who represent their interests and get voted into office by these fossil-fuel addicts these Romney-types think of as dupes. A final irony, the Romneys just got approval to remove a 3,000 square foot home and put in its place a mansion with 11,000 square feet in California (a Blue state!), with such a huge garage it has its own elevator.

            Reply
          34. Russell Byrd October 12, 2013

            Yeah, they call us “Dems,” while we should be calling them, “Dims.”

            Reply
          35. charleo1 October 11, 2013

            If States are the governmental laboratories, Where theories
            of conflicting philosophies are put into practice. And I believe
            to a great extent they are. Then, we must determine the goals
            we hope to achieve. Because success doesn’t look the same
            for all proposed methods of governance. If one believes it is
            acceptable, even preferable, to have a large chasm between the rich, and poor. Because that is the natural order of things. That it brings the survival of the fittest element into the equation. And asserts that both poverty, and hunger on one end of the scale, are as equally important as motivators to
            the overall success of the system. As wealth, and self interest are, on the other. And, to the extent there is any government interference into that, both hinders, and harms all participants. We are not our Brother’s keepers, in this line of thought. Nor, do we as individuals have any overarching, responsibility to society at large. Other than that which serves our own interests, and concerns. So then, any altruistic endeavors, such as feeding the poor, sheltering the homeless, or providing medical care to the indigent, should only be assumed by one’s own volition. And certainly not by statute This vision underpins modern, small government, Conservatism. Their default positions fall in favor of the ruling, or monied class. If the choice is worker empowerment, through unionization. The default position falls toward management, and Right to Work Laws. And follows across the board, with a wide variety of issues from taxes, unemployment benefits, environmental restrictions, wage, and hour laws, product inspection, and workplace safety.
            The default position, time and again, favors management over labor. Much of these defaults deals with what government should not do in the interests of creating a successful system. The second part of the equation, deals with the default position with regard to what government
            should do, in incentivizing, and promoting business profit,
            and success. It follows, as a government unencumbered
            of it’s social responsibilities, has much more with which to
            pave the road, and pad the bottom line for management.
            Certainly a lower wage scale can be a factor. But what
            other ways does this philosophy deem a government’s
            more approiate role? Again, the default here is to management. What is it we here in our State, may offer to lure prospective client companies? Zero interest loans? A donation of public lands. Or, even the State Government
            building roads, or other necessary infrastructure to accommodate the new enterprise. All this is thought to be then, a right, and proper role for government. If it produces
            large poverty numbers, or lapses in the educational process,
            higher rates of early, or infant mortality. For this theory that
            does not look to the greater good to determine it’s success
            or failure. These types of statistics do not count as negatives.
            As they are off the books, so to speak. in this profit driven,
            top down economy.

            Reply
          36. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

            “And nevertheless we spend more per capita for healthcare that ANY other country in the world.
            What does that tell you about our system?”

            That it is incredibly corrupt and inefficient, and is seen primarily as a “profit center,” and only secondarily as healthcare. . . .

            Few people have mentioned this, but there is a direct correlation between our medical system’s failures and the conversion of our hospitals by “for profit” medical corporations.

            Off-topic, but the same goes for our our prison systems and is beginning to show up in our education system. Oh, the joys of high profits from privatization at the expense of public service!!

            Reply
          37. Germansmith October 12, 2013

            Well the prison system is another MESS.
            I really do not know why we call ourselves “the land of the free” when we incarcerate 11% of our population, the highest percentage of ANY other country in the world.
            The reason our healthcare system is so inefficient is that it has become an unholy combination of government system and capitalism getting the worst part of both systems.
            If you make it a single payer system with doctors and hospitals working for the government it would be better.
            If you make it a pure for profit system where all companies can sell policies in every state with just a single set of federal regulations (instead of 50 different state department of insurance) it would also be much better and competition will also make cheaper in the long run.

            Reply
          38. Russell Byrd October 12, 2013

            Lord o’ mercy! Is this sarcasm, or are you being spoofed? Well, I’m game, or is it I am about to be gamed?

            I think you are a little high on the size of our prison population, but I agree with most of your post. If you truly believe what you have said, I wonder why you are so anti-Obama. The ACA is not perfect, but with the capitalists buying our politicians, our laws, and our courts, few in Congress had the nerve to go “all the way.” We have to start somewhere, don’t we?

            As far as the Repubs and their propaganda. There was, is, and will never be a healthcare plan until their capitalist gods decree they should create one.

            Reply
          39. patuxant October 13, 2013

            So very right RB. And it has come to light that he has been a healthcare consultant as he says for his entire life. Of course there are decades of years that he reveals as “suffering” and devoting himself to various and sundry things, including being “kidnapped in Mexico”. But he still knows jack diddly about why the costs of healthcare in this country are so outrageously high…so much for a H/C consultant! What a joker!

            Reply
          40. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            Er, ah, you mean, he is a consultant. For which insurance group? Kevorkian Healthcare?

            I am so sorry that I misjudged him. So praytell, who kidnapped him . . . Mexican aliens in an UFO?

            Reply
          41. patuxant October 13, 2013

            I have responded with the same questions. Appears from what arguments he was trying was to lure me into with his denegrating remarks, that he came to the US in the late 60s not knowing English etc. So he thinks he is self made and turned his wrath onto me. He really has a screw loose. But I struck something when I stood firm and when he challenged me to tell him what the hell I knew I about insurance and it knocked him off base when I told him of my 3 decade career in insurance and an atty as well. From that he launched into me personally as being I guess scum because I am an atty. He also thought I was a “Dude” and informed him otherwise. Really hate when people make presumptions about me. So far he hasn’t answered my last post.

            Reply
          42. Russell Byrd October 13, 2013

            They always deride people for not being educated, but when you say your are, they heckle you for being too educated. Of course, that is exactly the idea that Karl Rove had.

            I guess Germ learned English while he was with the aliens that kidnapped him. Maybe instead, it was some aliens in a Mexican UFO. Otherwise known as a Chevy. More likely his story about being kidnapped was a result of too much cheap Tequila.

            When a normal person embarrasses their self, you would think they might slink off and lay low for awhile. Unfortunately Germ, like his cohorts, is not smart enough or human enough to do that. I hate to say it, but he is probably heckling some other poor soul elsewhere.

            Maybe he bungee jumped off a 50 foot cliff, with a 100 foot of rope. Well, I can dream, can’t I. . . .

            Reply
          43. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Yes, indeed you/we can!

            Reply
          44. patuxant October 13, 2013

            You are incredibly uninformed. You don’t realize that the high cost of healthcare is due to providers, big Pharma, hospitals etc. Before you post know what you are talking about.

            Reply
          45. Germansmith October 13, 2013

            Really…..Like I was born yesterday.
            And if you are so smart, explain to me how we got to those high costs? did providers automatically decided to raise their prices starting in the 1960’s?
            How do health insurance companies and hospitals decide what is the appropriate rate for re-imbursement, capitation or billing?
            And before you answer and make a fool of yourself Mr. Petulant let me tell you I am a healthcare consultant. I deal with health insurance costs every freaking day of my life!!

            Reply
          46. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Oh, goody! Now I see. You are part of the problem. And let me tell you Germ, I worked as counsel for 25 years in the insurance industry and also know whereof I speak. You of anyone should know then, what is driving the costs of healthcare. Grow up and stop making a fool of yourself!

            Reply
          47. Germansmith October 13, 2013

            If it is true what you utter, then is you that is part of the problem. Maybe people in the “hill” should come down and see how real hard working Americans live.
            An Ivy League education or a Law Degree do not guarantee common sense and it has been proven from our last 2 presidents.

            Reply
          48. patuxant October 13, 2013

            If it is true what you uttered, Germ, then you would have more insight. Your only reply is to doubt what someone else asserts, and then make some jackass remark. I was raised and grew up in a steel town in PA in the 40’s and I know what real suffering is. My job in DC had more to do with real life people and those marginalized, as well as the sick and the dying. Take you hotheaded remarks and denigrating attitude to someone who gives a damn. I put myself through lawschool while teaching during the day. Don’t give me your high and mighty crap. You must have been screwing your clients, and it’s too bad they don’t know it.

            Reply
          49. Germansmith October 13, 2013

            Really dude, A lawyer that works with politicians and you have the gall to suggest I screw my clients? Even divorce lawyers rank higher, because they only screw one family at a time.
            Real suffering in an steel town in PA? What, not able to afford Pabst Blue Ribbon? Try seeing some classmates killed in a school bus bombing by Cuban rebels in 1958, Try Mozambique 1967, How about starting from the bottom in the US with no money or English in 1968? How about Viet Nam 1972? How about being kidnaped in Mexico in 1996?
            All wonderful experiences because I survived and made me stronger and I do not sit around mopping about my lot in life.
            I advise my clients for a fee and they are very grateful for my help. BUT if I really would ever consider screwing my clients, I would call you, after all you work screwing the WHOLE COUNTRY, who better to give me tips.
            Do you ever awaken feeling dirty and unworthy understanding quite well your advise may be hurting thousands of hard working Americans? I do not

            Reply
          50. patuxant October 13, 2013

            Once again, you are a fool who tries to denigrate. You know zero about whether or not I had personal or business involvements with politicians, but actually did not. Further what remarks to you have for the prior 16 years defending insureds in auto, fire and casualty, and health. And real hero doesn’t list all of his “heroic efforts and suffering”. You are such a moron! Look at you going off and making assumptions. I didn’t list all of my “sufferings” … and you also made another huge assumption…am not a “Dude”, Just so you know what a wild man you are presenting to the people on this post. And what were you being kidnapped for in Mexico? More illegalities???
            “BUT if I really would ever consider screwing my clients, I would call you, after all you work screwing the WHOLE COUNTRY, who better to give me tips.” You trying to describe me! Taking a whole class of professionals and making such laughable remarks? What a frigging joke!
            You must wake up with a hangover so you really don’t even remember how you screwed your clients over. What are you, a 100 years old? You advising clients on healthcare matters and showing pure lack of understanding of what the concepts of insurance is is very telling. Have an Iron City on me, pal! And by the way, first advice I would give you is for you to represent your own case if it ever came to it. You would have a fool for a client. Go back to that rock you crawled out from under.

            Reply
        3. newhope4all October 12, 2013

          I agree but it’s time for the GOP to acknowledge this. The South is falling while they seem to think they will rise again. Get over yourselves people. You lost the Civil War a long, long time ago and you lost the election twice. Go with the flow.

          Reply
          1. Russell Byrd October 12, 2013

            The Civil War might have been the greatest economic boon the South ever had. Slavery, and the crops that it depended on, were destroying any growth in the South. Crops such as cotton would quickly destroy the land’s productivity, which left many plantation owner’s constantly clearing and acquiring land. Of course, they had to feed their slaves as well.

            By concentrating on a slave economy, real growth in any other direction was near non-existent. Briefly, the Civil War swept that away. Of course, the South never had that “Yankee ingenuity” to make the most of the break with their old slave ways. If it were not for a certain black scientist (Washington Carver), the South would have been completely bankrupted before World War 1.

            Today, the Southern economy is based on their Union busting activities of the last fifty years. By enticing greedy capitalists to relocate to the South, they were able to gain a degree of prosperity. Of course, now many of those jobs are relocating to foreign lands. It will take another miracle for things to get better in those Southern red states. At least, in many areas. I wonder if they will ever put aside their hate, bigotry, and arrogance long enough to figure it out?

            Reply
      2. Rupert_Murdoch68 October 11, 2013

        That is one thing the Repubs never discuss, welfare for the rich.

        Reply
        1. Independent1 October 11, 2013

          You’re right they don’t discuss it; they just constantly feed the rich with welfare either via direct subsidies or by constantly trying to cut tax rates and provide loopholes that allow the rich to pocket millions upon millions of dollars they should be paying in taxes.

          Reply
      3. Dominick Vila October 12, 2013

        I agree. Obviously, there are many contributing factors to our relatively low life expectancy; access to preventive medical care ranks high among them.
        There are instances when subsidies may contribute to the emergence of new technologies or processes, but there is no justification to give subsidies to corporations that are profitable and growing at leaps and bounds.

        Reply
    3. Buford2k11 October 11, 2013

      It’s almost like they have same goal as Osama bin Laden and his merry band of terrorists…

      Reply
    4. Mortalc01l October 11, 2013

      Their problem was that they didn’t understand quite how mind-bogglingly stupid the Tea Party are. They underestimated them to such a huge degree that their “pet” has bitten the hand that feeds it…

      Business leaders may be immoral and self-serving, but they’re not stupid by any means and the mistake they made was believing that the Tea Party had a modicum of common sense; instead, what they got was a bunch of political suicide bombers, intent on achieving their goal at all costs (destroying as much of Obama’s Presidency and legacy as possible).

      And look at what that moronic single-minded pursuit has wrought! The supposed “pet” of the plutocrats has turned into a nightmare for them; an uncontrollable, unthinking monster with murder on it’s mind; the death of the government and legal system of the USA.

      And they think they are patriots.!!! They are the exact OPPOSITE of patriots, seeking the overthrow of democratic elections, the dismantling of the court decided ACA law and instead trying to impose the tyranny of the few (the Tea Party) over the majority.

      Reply
      1. nirodha October 11, 2013

        Yes! And what the TP fails to recognize (or is too stupid to remember) is that a kamikaze attack invariably kills the pilot. The damage inflicted may be serious, but with time, can be repaired. The pilot, however, is dead forever.

        Reply
    5. sigrid28 October 12, 2013

      Dominick, you were right about the Tea Party taking us over the edge. But I have said all along that for once the interests of the 1% may save us from default, by reining in the candidates they paid to elect. These billionaires are not insulated from the effects of default. The situation does go to show how out-of-touch the 1%ers are with the 99%ers in the Republican base they entirely under-estimated and think of as dupes. As you say so eloquently, “The sad part is that it doesn’t have to be like this.”

      Reply
    6. newhope4all October 12, 2013

      You have put in all in a nutshell and I thank you for your excellent comments. Let the horror that is the Tea Party come to a grinding halt as soon as possible. I’m so ashamed of these people I could and do cry.

      Reply
  4. terry b October 11, 2013

    Stupidity has taken over the republican party ever since the tea party hit the country. Eventually it will be a boon for the country as the voters start rejecting their behavior that borders on a form of mental illness. Lets hope that does happen and we can finally start moving the country forward which is just the opposite the current GOP wants to do.

    Reply
    1. Desire October 11, 2013

      You’re so right my friend~

      Reply
  5. Eleanore Whitaker October 11, 2013

    Look…Anyone who has EVER worked around the executive CEO types knows exactly how privileged they are not….they put their pants on the same way we all do..one leg at a time. Ideology of wealth is that you pinch your own pennies hard as you can and then, you spend everyone else’s money….That’s conservatism today. Don’t believe it? Ask yourselves why the wealthiest men in the US gravitate so easily from obscene wealth to autonomous privilege and power…Because they have been inculcated with the doctrine of Me First.

    Corporate leaders thought it was cute to take federal tax subsidies from the rest of us and then turn it against us with their K-Street lobbyists pushing hard to reduce salaries of the Middle and lower classes, drop all employer benefits and then stuff huge profits in offshore tax-free accounts in the trillions.

    There was a movie back in the late 1960s called “All the Fine Young Cannibals.” Describes the upwardly greedy and CEO executive types to a “T.” Cannibals of the rest of us hiding behind a lie about how they want to reduce debt. When THEY are the ones who create it by living off tax subsidies they don’t need?

    Reply
    1. Dominick Vila October 11, 2013

      The elite is also being helped by legislation that guarantees protection of assets and accumulation of wealth. The rationale for those policies is that helping the wealthiest members of our society and corporations lead to economic growth and job growth. I believe they are 100% correct, the tax breaks, loopholes, and subsidies we give to those who don’t need our help to invest and enjoy a life of luxury is generating considerable investment, economic growth, and job opportunities…in China, Bangladesh, Vietnam and other countries.
      A facet of the economic policies embraced by the GOP, in addition to encouraging greed, is that most of the corporations we are helping are “American” in name only. Most are multi-nationals owned by investors from countries like China, Japan, Germany and Saudi Arabia. Their loyalty is only to the bottom line. The well being of the American people is not even a consideration. The irony, is that those that wrap themselves in the flag when it is convenient to their ideological goals, are the ones that are involved in a huge redistribution of funds, not only to the wealthy, but to foreign investors. The losers are the American middle class and the poor, who only get crumbs in exchange for the taxes we pay and our labor.

      Reply
      1. Tom_D44 October 11, 2013

        Dominick-
        You are absolutely right about these huge multi-national corporations and one great example of that is GE, who’s CEO has worked very closely with president Obama on policy and who has gained significantly from it. Then, of course, they partner with China to build the next generation of new airliners. Jobs for the US worker? I think not. Thank you very much mr president. We don’t like your friends any more than we like the friends of the republicans. So how is anything in Washington any different with this administration? The answer – its not. BS politics as usual, which is exactly what this whole hoax of a shutdown is.

        Reply
        1. Dominick Vila October 12, 2013

          We have been investing and doing business in China since President Nixon re-established relations with that country in the 1970s. The problem we face at the moment is that if we end or curtail those investments, China will dump their $2T holdings, would stop purchasing the Treasury Bills that help us offset the effects of insufficient revenues as a result of having one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized world, and our trade deficit would probably worsen. The sad reality is that we depend more on imports from China to satisfy demand, than their dependence on American products or services.
          Regarding trade agreements, bear in mind that those agreements are not designed to help the average American, they are designed to help American corporations and investors.

          Reply
          1. Tom_D44 October 12, 2013

            You are better than that Dominick. When Mitt Romney made business decisions that resulted in jobs going over seas he was a vulture capitalist but when Obama’s friend does it we call it “investing overseas”. Code language for hypocrisy. It was a business decision made in the best interest of GE. They had the navigation system and China was developing the new plane that it was going to be installed in. Now if you know me, then you would know that my position here is that you don’t mess with the market and you don’t criticize GE for making this decision but rather you find out how we can compete for that business better or the government makes concessions to businesses or creates conditions to entice them to come here over other countries. That is called competition. Then you get GE the hell out of the government since that is a conflict of interest. Here is one idea, let’s not create policies that make it impossible, or that penalize companies like Boeing from moving out of one state and into another because the unions were strapping their costs and making them not competitive. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. And GE’s decision had nothing to do with China buying our treasuries, as China has already stopped buying them and now the FED has been. It’s currently a house of cards.
            So my original point is that almost everything today is being politicized and manipulated by these politicians and anyone who has taken one side and refuses to look at what is really going on is asleep. This system needs to be turned completely on its head right now and whether you like the positions of the tea party leaders like Ted Cruz or not, you have to give them credit for exposing the rampant corruption and cronyism on both sides – including their own. And they have done so knowing that they will likely come out of this fight as losers because the media will attack them like rabid dogs and when it is all over there will be nothing left of their reputations. The republicans seem to have woken up and many of them are turning on these establishment guys but when will the democrats see that the exact same thing is happening on their side as well?

            Reply
          2. Dominick Vila October 12, 2013

            President Obama is not investing overseas or at home. Business people are. Investments in China have been going on, uninterrupted, since President Nixon re-established diplomatic and trade relations with China in the 1970s. Buying components and/or systems while building a product is a business decision that has little to do with what our Presidents have to say on the subject. More often than not those decision contribute to cheaper products without loss of excellence, sometimes they result in substandard products. My point is that buying products or services overseas has been going on for decades, regardless of who was or is in the Oval Office.
            Subject: Re: New comment posted on Risky Business: Corporate Leaders Bemoan Tea Party Default Crisis Created By Their Own Donations

            Reply
      2. Eleanore Whitaker October 11, 2013

        Of course, I agree. That bottom line mentality doesn’t work in a government of 235+ million Americans with equal rights. The question now becomes…are our equal rights under the Constitution still protected? Or can we assume that the US government no longer exists except as a vehicle that supports Corporations and the 1%?

        Reply
        1. Dominick Vila October 12, 2013

          Republicans remember the Constitution when it supports their agenda. A timely example involves the debt ceiling impasse, which ignored the fact that we are constitutionally obligated to pay our debts.

          Reply
    2. Allan Richardson October 11, 2013

      Do they put their pants on like everyone else? Or do they sit on the bed and have their BUTLERS put their pants on them both legs at once?

      The author of Freakanomics cited the ACTUAL case of a former cube-jockey who started a business catering office building break rooms with bagels; delivering them in the morning, and collecting the money from an “honor system” container in the evening. He found a surprisingly low rate of theft by underpayment, and in most buildings, occasional underpayments were balanced in the long run by overpayments (i.e. forgot to bring the cash today, pay for it tomorrow). EXCEPT in one company which had breakrooms on three floors, one with low-level office workers, one with middle management, and one with senior executives. Over a long period, the underpayment rate rose from the first floor to the third. Occasionally he even had all the bagels taken but NO money in the pot in the afternoon, on the third floor.

      This shows a strong correlation between amorality (or sociopathy) and financial rank. It even suggests that people who become senior executives have a sense of ENTITLEMENT (not in the political sense, but the social and psychological sense), either BECAUSE they have achieved success and feel they no longer have to consider others’ welfare, or they had that attitude BEFORE rising in the corporate ladder, which helped them rise. Contrast that with the attitude of the most successful man in history, who said “He who would be your master must be the servant of all.”

      Reply
      1. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

        If I may be permitted to say, these monsters do feel a sense of entitlement on all levels, including political. Nothing or no one is truly, fully safe or off-limits from the most aggressive of this lot.

        Great post Alan!

        Reply
    3. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

      My experiences with the ubermensch make me totally concur with your analysis. Though my humble compliments are of little value, I must say well done!

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker October 12, 2013

        You know what I found most disgusting about these guys? Their obscene wealth is surpassed only by their bizarre sexual proclivities. The minute these guys get too too much wealth, they throw all manner of common decency and morals out the window…Example: One CEO I worked for? Spent his “expense account money” (that equaled two years of my salary) on regular trips to Japan to enjoy hot tubs with geisha “attendants” at his beck and call. Another spent thousands just to play on a St. Andrew’s Scotland Golf course. Another spent his boolah boolah moolah on private safaris in Africa.

        It made my blood boil that they’d sit in these Executive board meetings and play head choppers with their employees’ jobs or incomes. Then, all they saved from the annual head chop shop was flooded into higher and higher “expense accounts.”

        One lunatic went so far as to try and throw a state election by insisting all employees of his kingdom corporation vote for the candidate of HIS choice. See the replication by the GOP Bull tyrants?

        I tell you this…if ever I decided to write a novel about the extraordinary “wasteful spending” by these corporate welfare recipients, their hair AND their testicles would curl.

        Reply
        1. Russell Byrd October 12, 2013

          And these are the people that the Repubs think we should be worshiping. . . .

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker October 13, 2013

            There was a time in US history when corruption was dealt with by our government. Now, because it is in the hands of the Stars and Bars Confederates who lap up our federal tax dollars like swill, they blow off any attempts to stop the corruption they know they are getting away with. That’s their inbred “fox in the henhouse” ideology.

            Reply
  6. Eleanore Whitaker October 11, 2013

    The US government is under attack from within. That’s always how the strategies of the power freaks play out. First, they have a tight little back room group of power freaks, choose their talking head and then, they go right to work dismantling the government piece by piece.

    I smell mob fear from these obscenely greedy wealthheads…Nothing like mob rule to shake the mud out of their britches.

    Reply
    1. Russell Byrd October 11, 2013

      That is exactly what is happening. The rich have been using the Tea gang, like fire to burn us out, now they have found that the fire has gotten out of control and is threatening them with destruction.

      Reply
  7. Bill Thompson October 11, 2013

    Representative Bill Pascrell of New Jersey spoke of this issue just two days ago the people of New Jersey should be very proud of him.The people of America should be very frightened as to what is happened to our system. He calls out the corporate interests and monies that have subverted our system he is one of the few that I have heard do so. Many of the tea party positions have been bought sad but true they are now slaves to their corporate owners. Watch this YouTube video of Representative Bill Pascrell if anybody is happy that this is going on in this country they need their heads examined. Thank you Rep Pascrell for being one of the very few that would stand up to the corporate interests.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_QpltWbyPWA#t=63

    Reply
    1. Dominick Vila October 11, 2013

      Sen Elizabeth Warren is doing the same thing. Sadly, they are not too many politicians like them, willing to risk it all to expose those who have been taking advantage of our naiveté to enrich themselves and advance their agenda.

      Reply
      1. Bill Thompson October 11, 2013

        I agree Sen. Warren is a superstar I love to hear her speak. But as far as the House of Representatives go there’s very little dialogue coming from their side. It is truly time for the Democratic Party to have their voices heard I’ve said this before I’m saying it again. The Republicans are on television five times more than I see Democratic members speaking this has to stop if you want your voice heard you have to open your mouth

        Reply
      2. Desire October 11, 2013

        Yes that’s true and unfortunately I worry about their safety its clear from History that the powers that be don’t like it when Good people do good things.. I hope they realize that we are all much more aware then even a few months ago and we know all their dirty evil behaviors.So Hands off the few good souls still in office.

        Reply
  8. Germansmith October 11, 2013

    On the bright side, if a senator and/or congressman goes against the interests of their sugar daddies it shows they are not BOUGHT and are following the desires of their electorate or following their conscience when they are fighting for an unpopular cause.
    This threat of default and this government shutdown is losing me $$$$ daily, but if this drama is what it takes for both congress and the president to sit down and negotiate a reduction of expenses and an increase in revenues to bring us to a sound fiscal policy…them be it

    Reply
    1. Independent1 October 11, 2013

      Sorry, there doesn’t have to be any discussion to get tax revenues up, the GOP just needs to stop being obstructionists and pass one of the 2 Jobs acts that Obama sent to the House almost 3 years ago. Obama’s Americans Jobs Act would have created another 4-6 million jobs per the CBO but the GOP has just sat on it. And SPENDING IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!!!! Inflation adjusted and compared by capita or GDP, spending is at the level of when Eisenhower was in office – and Ike was such a tightwad that America suffered the most recessions during his 8 years of any president in history (3 of them that lasted almost 1/2 of his time in office). So get off the WE NEED TO CUT SPENDING KICK!!! WE NEED TO GET MORE JOBS CREATED AND TAX REVENUES UP!!!!!! THE GOP HAS TO STOP BEING OBSTRUCTIONISTS!!!!!!

      Reply
      1. Germansmith October 11, 2013

        I am not against any job act as long as it is not use to expand government bureaucracy or additional government jobs.

        When you spend more money that you bring in for an extended period of time it is always a problem no matter how many caps or exclamation points you use.

        Any smart politician at this point would look forward to negotiating with the Republicans at the time they are shouldering most of the blame for the shutdown and potential default…..I will give Obama the benefit of doubt and expect that he would be able to maybe get his job bill approved as long as maybe sacrificing the implementation of the individual mandate for one more year (which implementation is a royal mess anyway) See, negotiating is a win-win solution, right now Democrats want to win and shove their victory in the Republican faces.

        It is just a matter of Obama determining what is more important. Jobs and fixing our infrastructure and increase our tax base OR sending billions of dollars than we can not afford to health insurance companies and will NOT reduce the cost or improve the quality of healthcare anyway.

        Reply
        1. LotusJoan October 11, 2013

          The ACA has procedures in place that will reduce the cost
          and improve the quality of health care. In fact it has already done so. How many people got a check back from their insurance because the insurance company has to pay 80% of their revenue to client care. The ACA will penalize providers based on poor health outcomes. The ACA will allow the government to use competition among providers to drive health care cost down, particularly RX costs. Check it out before you dismiss it based on something you heard from a less than reliable source. The ACA is not perfect, but it is a step in the right direction.

          Reply
          1. Germansmith October 11, 2013

            I do hear things about ACA, I live them. Every day I answer questions from my clients and every week I attend seminars about ACA and how people and companies will react to it.
            ACA is not totally wrong
            As a healthcare consultant I admit some of the parts are good
            What you mentioned is called the MLR, that is good (I think refunds are costly, some of my client received a $23 refund)
            Keeping your children in your employer’s plan to age 26 is good.
            100% coverage for preventive is also good, but I do not see many of my clients taking advantage of it.
            -forcing people to change their policies to comply with the metal levels has been bad and annoyed most of my clients as well as increased their premiums.
            -requirement for employers with 50+ is not good, it will cause unemployment and underemployment for the people that can least afford them.
            -Subsidies will be too costly to the country since I expect a large percentage of small employers to cancel their health coverage and send their employees to the exchanges. 68% of families could qualify for the subsidies. I am even sending some of my clients to the exchanges to get the subsidies.
            Implementation of the individual mandate has been a disaster and an example of incompetence.
            Access will be limited to smaller networks in the exchanges bought policies (this is a FACT) and I expect the cost to increase (to the government paying the subsidies) since we are now accepting all those people with preexisting and chronic diseases.
            As a consultant, I can now help my clients better. As a taxpayer, I am appalled of the costs

            Reply
        2. Independent1 October 11, 2013

          Well, if you don’t want to expand the government, then the last people you want in office are Republicans. In case you didn’t notice, between Reagan and the two Bushes, the size of our federal government went up by over 280,000 workers (Reagan added 261,000 himself); it actually reached the highest levels in history under Reagan when it was 3,110,000 when he left office in 1989.

          Fortunately, Clinton and Obama came to the rescue, actually, under Carter, Clinton and Obama the three of them reduced the Federal government workforce by 345,000, such that right now, the federal government is 330,000 workers less than when Regan left office at 2,780,000 workers.

          And that’s not even the half of it, while Bushy Boy was in office, governments across the nation: town, city, state and federal, increased by 950,000 workers; while under Obama, those 950,000 were reduced by over 600,000.

          Reply
          1. Germansmith October 11, 2013

            For the record
            I do not think Republican nowadays are any better at governing than Democrats, each have their own set of faults and problems
            When Bush was President, I was equally critical of his incompetence and dishonesty.
            As I have mentioned before in a previous sparring with you, I am a registered Republican that voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, but as the lesser of two evils and not because I thought Obama good for the US, just less damaging than Romney, so your diatribe about Bush is wasted on me.
            I have nothing against Clinton, he was a leader and a master negotiator that managed to give us a solid economy by negotiating with the far nastier Newt. I was actually hoping for another Clinton in the White House until you guys pull Obama , a Junior Senator from the most corrupt state in the nation as the candidate.
            Also, remember mortgage crisis happened, state taxes collection decreased and all local and state government had to reduce their workforce and also as well as the effects on the Budget Sequestration Act in 2013. Are we going to credit Obama for that?

            Reply
  9. howa4x October 11, 2013

    If we default then Wall st will take the hardest hit, followed by the banks and then other industries that depend on those two sectors of the economy. Americans should realize that these groups are part of the get over culture that pervades our economy. They are always looking for an angle to prosper, whether its doing away with banking regulations, environmental ones, or wrangling a subsidy out of congress or getting shielded from lawsuits as Monsanto did over its production of GMO seeds. They found a willing partner in the tea party, a group that couldn’t find their ass using both hands, and painfully unaware of the consequences of their actions. The tea party doesn’t come from centers of educational prowess but out in the heartland, far from America’s problems, where uniformity of thought, and religious zeal are the norm. Places where science is shunned and creationism is taught instead. They were picked by these titans of industry for their willingness to forsake their own children and families to uphold the 1% and their version of the American Dream. The mix of outliers and evangelicals listen to end of times tapes and attend lectures about the second coming and the rapture, so if we say policies are leading to extreme climate change they cheer since they feel they are coming closer to Jesus.
    Now these masters of the financial universe see the monster they created. Just like Dr. Frankenstein they brought to life a creature that defies logic, and just like in the movie the monster is now coming back to kill its maker. Or as we call it just deserts.

    Reply
    1. TZToronto October 11, 2013

      At some point their fiscal beliefs will come back to bite them. If the federal budget gets slashed, the meat will get slashed along with the fat. People in the Red states (and who rely on the federal government to live) will suddenly have to rely on themselves (which they claim to view as a virtue) to survive. Then they’ll start blaming President Obama (or whichever Democrat is in the White House) for their troubles, not even considering that the nice, young, white, Christian, Republican Tea Party man they voted to send to the House of Representatives is the one who cancelled their food stamps or cut their Medicare or chopped their Social Security check in half.

      Reply
      1. howa4x October 11, 2013

        True Red states take more back from the federal govt than they give. Kentucky which elected both Mitch, Dr. No McConnell and Rand slash the Govt. budget Paul get back $1.55 for every dollar they spend to Washington . Also their state has the highest SS disability fraud in the country. We should cut back on what we give red states to balance the budget and that should shut up republicns

        Reply
  10. JohnRNC October 11, 2013

    If these same “corporate leaders” would actually pay their [relatively low share of] taxes – we wouldn’t need to raise the debt ceiling. We would have adequate revenue to fund all government functions & services.

    Do the math. In the absence of the Bush era tax cuts, we’d be in a surplus right now. In the absence of [at least one] unnecessary war our national debt would be at least one order of magnitude smaller.

    We as a culture have very short memory’s and shorter attention spans.

    Reply
  11. Bryan Blake October 11, 2013

    I want to Cheer and Shout that the rich and ultra-rich political activists/revolutionists are suffering the slings and arrows of their own creation. When one arms irrational people then irrational and unpredictable results can and will occur. Let US be perfectly clear: These rich and ultra-rich politically active are no less revolutionaries than if they had guns in their hands. Unfortunately, they are acting through perfectly legal means conceived in the unconstitutional decisions of SCOTUS granting extra-constitutional free speech rights to the rich and ultra-rich through their MONEY! It all began with Buckley v. Valeo where it was held that MONEY is free speech under the pretense that “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech.” The Court saw campaign finance regulations as an abridgement of free speech rights of the rich and ultra-rich in their use of money to deny the free speech rights of We The People. This of course led to decision after decision that eventually led to the highly probable ending of our rights to free speech through Citizens United v. FEC.

    Since Our Free Speech Rights are virtually nonexistent We MUST ALSO SUFFER the slings and arrows of the LUNACY these rogue members of the 1% have launched. EVEN IF debt default by the US was brought about by their Lunacy these rich and ultra-rich activist will survive with their wealth intact. Just like 1929, some Wall Streeters will leap from their gilded towers, while the rest of us would be shoved into the abyss of the Great Depression 2.0.

    I wish that this would be a “cautionary tale” for these greedy and malevolent individuals and corporations. But it will not be. Although the Koch brothers have had to “blink” publicly the arrogance of money will still grip their minds. The same is applicable to the rest of the rich and ultra-rich revolutionaries.

    Unfortunately, this has been the common fate of humanity since human structure of government and economy evolved from tribes into civilizations. The strong have always dominated the weak. The American Revolution was supposed to have broke the back of domination by the few of the many. But that has never been true. Just as many of The Founders feared, the American “landed gentry” took control of the Revolution, perverted its government and continues to do so today.

    Perhaps the only good thing that might come from the shutdown and the looming default is an Arrow, with a note, in the political heart of these ultra-rich activists: You Are Not INFALLIBLE! That alone gives We The People great hope and a call to ACTION!

    Reply
  12. disqus_ivSI3ByGmh October 11, 2013

    I can only paraphrase (with a slight modification) Will Rogers at this point to describe the state of the party: “I don’t belong to an organized political party. I’m a Republican.”

    It’s all right Dominic and John. I’m not really a Republican! I am only paraphrasing Will Rogers! You guys should know by know that I am a card-carrying Liberal Dem.

    Reply
  13. Mystic Lord October 11, 2013

    It is all the President’s fault! He refuses to negotiate and insists on not being white. How can he do that to Merica???

    Reply
  14. S.J. Jolly October 11, 2013

    The problem with supporting radicals and crazies is that they might go further, and in different directions, than you like.

    Reply
  15. nana4gj October 11, 2013

    There’s another article today, on this site, whose “headline” asks, “Are Americans Stupid”? I would have to answer the vast majority of us are not, but it does appear big business, industry, and those corporations are.

    This is not the first time they have thrown all that cherished money that could have been used to rescue themselves or to create jobs or pay their taxes at very poor choices of political candidates. If they bemoan the amount they spent on these hapless but dangerous nitwits, I wonder how they feel about the millions and billions that underwrote the last Presidential candidates to the GOP.

    We have been told that they know better, they are smart, capable….that’s why they are so successful….in part….you have to wonder. If, indeed, they are smart, is it that their value system is so screwed up from having engaged in so many questionable stunts to get all that money for so long, that they can no longer function with their heads out of …..After all, I do recall us lower ones having to bail them all out of their failures just about the time this President they fight against and criticize, proves time and time again that he is far above them all in just about any measure of a man.

    Time to relax and help the man get the job done. It’s not for him. It’s for We The People who fill in the space on the map that is called the country of the USA.

    Reply
    1. Bryan Blake October 11, 2013

      I agree most Americans are not stupid. But there sure are a lot of politically ignorant people out there. With the middle class almost shrunk “enough to drown in a bathtub” the average working citizen does not have enough time to be politically literate. So the rich and ultra-rich continue to herd us toward becoming just drones in a subsistence-level economy.

      They need bumper stickers on their limousines:

      WHO KNEW?

      WHAT ME WORRY?

      I DON’T LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM!

      Reply
      1. nana4gj October 11, 2013

        Like the woman at the Hampton’s big fund raiser during Romney’s campaign who told reporters she has no idea why the vote is given to just anybody because “you people” don’t understand what is at stake.”

        Reply
  16. nana4gj October 11, 2013

    “They Built It” Got pride much?

    The same way you built it, you can destroy it. Have you figured that out yet?

    Apparently, Corporations were not ready to be treated as people yet.

    Reply
  17. ThomasBonsell October 11, 2013

    Why business money was available to these know-nothings in the first place is a mystery.

    These CEOs, who take millions of dollars each year for themselves, have to be the most-ignorant bunch of clowns outside the circus.

    Do they not know that every GOP administration since WWI has trashed the economy? Some more than once. Do they not know that those recessions and depressions destroy businesses and the spending power of the customers the businesses need to survive?

    Do they not know that every Democratic administration since the Great Depression (another creation of the GOP right) has done better than every GOP administration on economic matters? In every category.

    Do they not know that the United States Constitution better represents their interests than does a mindless politician? For example, Article I, Section 8, paragraph 18, says laws are to be necessary and proper. Are these CEOs so ignorant to not know they can use that provision to challenge in court any regulation on the books that does no good (it isn’t necessary) or does harm (it isn’t proper)? And it would be cheaper to challenge in court than to bribe thousands of politicians at all levels of government. The Chamber of Commerce could take on this mission and be useful for the first time in history rather than being a constant enemy of the American people.

    Instead these buffoon CEOs waste hundreds of millions of dollars (that don’t belong to them) to bribe ignorant buffoon politicians on the right who enact stupid laws and provisions that hurt the very businesses that financed them in the first place.

    To ignorant buffoon CEOs: money in a corporation’s treasury is the property of the shareholders; it is not yours. You are thieves when you use other people’s money to bribe politicians who then turn round and screw the very people whose money was used by the CEOs to get those buffoon politicians in office. I.e. see Enron.

    Reply
  18. Susan Love October 11, 2013

    No need to worry. Michelle Bachman says the world is going to end anyway. Another great thinker…

    Reply
  19. newhope4all October 12, 2013

    Since so many middle class Americans are now poverty stricken they don’t have much more to lose and maybe it’s time that the Fat Cats who have all the money lose all they have. If the Global economy fails aren’t the rich the only ones left to lose? I have nothing so what difference will it make to me? Maybe they will fall on their own swords. They own this.

    Reply

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