By E. J. Dionne

Mission Accomplished: The Tea Party Shutdown

October 1, 2013 3:30 pm Category: Memo Pad, Politics 252 Comments A+ / A-
Mission Accomplished: The Tea Party Shutdown

WASHINGTON — The Tea Party Republicans should hang a “Mission Accomplished” banner across the House of Representatives. They could flank it with large portraits of Senator Ted Cruz, the Texas Republican who has in fact, if not in name, replaced John Boehner as Speaker of the House. The right-wing extremists got exactly what they wanted. Now, what will the country do about it?

In blundering into a shutdown, Boehner has lost any claim to authority. Helpfully, the Speaker-in-name-only underscored this fact himself on the House floor when he mocked the way President Obama talked. Does anyone remember a real Speaker going to the well of the House and making fun of a president of the United States? Can anyone now doubt who is responsible for Washington’s dysfunction? The Republican right still does not accept the legitimacy of Barack Obama’s presidency. This is why much of the government shut down.

The issue here is not that Congress failed to reach a “compromise.” The Democrats already have compromised, lopping about $70 billion off their budget proposal, to the dismay of many liberals. That was meaningless to a Tea Party crowd that seems to care not a whit about the deficit, despite its fulsome talk. It will be satisfied only if Congress denies health care coverage to about 25 million Americans, which is what “repealing Obamacare” really means.

It needs to be said over and over as long as this stupid and artificial crisis brewed by the Tea Party continues: Financing the government in a normal way and avoiding a shutdown should not be seen as a “concession.” Making sure the government pays its debt is not a “concession.” It’s what we expect from a well-functioning constitutional system. It’s what we expect from decent stewards of our great experiment. The extremists who have taken over the House do not believe in a normal, constitutional system. They believe only in power.

There’s a profound irony here, since no one talks more about the Constitution than the Tea Party. Before the Civil War, John C. Calhoun and a variety of nullifiers and future secessionists spoke incessantly about the Constitution, too. We know where that led.

In the course of things in a constitutional and democratic republic, parties win elections on the issues that matter to them. They pass laws or repeal them by majority vote. The Tea Party could not muster such a majority to repeal the Affordable Care Act because Democrats held the White House and the Senate in the 2012 elections. Lacking a majority, the extremists chose force. “Do what we want,” they said, “or we will render the country ungovernable.”

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Mission Accomplished: The Tea Party Shutdown Reviewed by on . WASHINGTON -- The Tea Party Republicans should hang a "Mission Accomplished" banner across the House of Representatives. They could flank it with large portrait WASHINGTON -- The Tea Party Republicans should hang a "Mission Accomplished" banner across the House of Representatives. They could flank it with large portrait Rating:

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Comments

  • paganheart

    Boehner is the worst Speaker ever – a craven, spineless, putrid little coward, crying like a b!tch and running away from the bullying Tea Party filthbags the same way he probably sh!t his pants and ran when confronted by playground bullies in first grade. Everytime I see him I just want to b!tch-slap his fake-tanned face.

    This line scares the hell out of me: “Before the Civil War, John C. Calhoun
    and a variety of nullifiers and future secessionists spoke incessantly about the Constitution, too. We know where that led.” So we’re on the verge another Civil War, then? Great. Like I don’t have enough to be depressed about. Excuse me while I go get a bottle of Whiskey and some Valium tablets….

    • idamag

      There are some states that haven’t quit fighting the civil war. They just went underground to regroup.

      • Eleanore Whitaker

        The Confederates are unable to let go of their white supremacy. What’s bred in the bone will not out as Shakespeare once wrote. The problem with these red states is that they are not conservatives…they are bigoted plantation mentalities no one above the Mason Dixon line will tolerate anymore. They have had their chances to step into 2013 and blew it big time with this shut down.

        Americans have a distinct loathing for a small minority faction of ideologues who think they can take our tax dollars and hand it over to corporations while these same corporations don’t hire or create jobs much less pay their fair share in taxes. We don’t work to keep businesses in business. If the CEOs can’t make their businesses profitable, they can’t rely on taxpayers to be their crash pad.

        • whodatbob

          Amend and hallelujah to paragraph 2! But the first is off. The entire middle of the country from Canada to Mexico is red. The north is on that red band wagon. Heaven help us if we are unable to win back those in both the North and the South who have been duped into believing the crap Republicans are spreading. Even your fellow Yankees and have bought into Republican slim.

          • jointerjohn

            Wrong! Illinois stands blue in a sea of stupidity. We are holding on by our fingernails, but still vivid blue.

          • whodatbob

            That’s true, But your corrupt politicians make those in my home state, Louisiana, look like Saints. I am not talking football, either.

            If it were not for Chicago and East St. Louis you would be red.

            Go Saints! Who dat say da can beat dem Saints? Who dat?

          • jointerjohn

            We put our corrupt politicians in prison. When was the last time Louisiana did that? If it wasn’t for Chicago we would not even be significant, but that is kind of like saying if your aunt had balls she would have been your uncle. We have produced Abraham Lincoln, Everett Dirksen, Paul Simon, Hillery Clinton, current Senate Majority Whip Richard Durbin, and President Barack Obama. Who has Louisiana put forward other than Hughie Long?

          • whodatbob

            Louisiana has put a few in jail and one, Hughie’s little brother Earl long in an insane asylum. And Hughie was in the 1920’s and ’30’s Earl in the early ’60’s. Your deadbeats current.

          • whodatbob

            Everett Dirksen great, Dick Durbin and Paul Simon above average, had Lincoln not been assassinate he would not be Sanctified. Had he been half as good a negotiator as he was an orator Slavery would have ended without a war. The book is still out on Hillery Clinton and the President. You left out the brightest star to come out Illinois, Adli Stevenson.

          • jointerjohn

            My favorite line from Adlai Stevenson is, “I don’t dislike republicans, I just have a problem with them holding public office.” Paul Simon was a personal friend and an extraordinary intellect . I still miss him.

          • whodatbob

            We seem to be pretty much on the same page on the Illinois politicians. Do not remember what part of Illinois Paul Simon was from, but down state I believe. If so Chicago is left out of the mix for now.
            A daughter did her graduate work in Chicago and stayed. She has no use for Obama because of the dirty smear primary he ran against his opponent to get the nomination. A died in the wool Democrate,

        • mandinka

          Yea the alternative take bond holders assets and turn them over to a Union. Guess bankruptcy laws don’t mean anything to the Messiah

      • Russell Byrd

        Hopefully, if we can tamp the dirt down tight enough, then all we will need will be the tombstone.

      • mandinka

        Might be because it was an illegal war and had Lincoln lived he would have been up on war crimes charges

        • idamag

          You don’t know much about history. Any time a military action is taken against the United States of America,by Americans,it is treason. When those crackers fired on Fort Sumner, they started the action and committed treason. Thanks to the benevolence of President Lincoln they weren’t charged and hanged.

    • plc97477

      I would suggest you wait and watch the t potty eat the repug potty. I could be pretty humorous.

  • JD Mulvey

    Boehner gets no sympathy from me. It took the President several years too long to realize that he couldn’t get anywhere by accommodating the extremists. If Boehner thinks giving them what they want now will get them to like him, he’s willfully blind to the way they operate.

    • Patricia Robertson

      Yep, and the good guy said, I can show you better than I, can tell you. and the bad guy is still having drinks with the bad guys crying for the good guy to come and save him because he realize it is not a movie no more, this is real.

    • mandinka

      Barak just got a $600B tax increase in Jan where are the spending cuts he promised in return??

      • idamag

        His exact words were:…? The only tax increase was the Supreme Court ruling the ACA was a tax increase. The ACA was passed with a 2/3 majority and upheld by the Supreme Court. That is Democracy.

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    Boehner will either have to resign or he’ll be impeached. There is no way Americans want a return to the Bush/Cheney years of austerity. This is a twice elected president who has had ZERO cooperation and a conspiratorial plot to politically assassinate him and his administration since March 2009 when Mitch McConnell publicly stated, “WE will get rid of Obama.” NO he and his archaic relics of the antebellum swaggering Big Daddy plantation mentalities will not.

    They shut down the government and the world is seeing what Americans are seeing…a small faction of conspirators who when they don’t get it all their way are willing to tear the country and our government to shreds.

    Demand Boehner resign or be impeached. His call. Cut the head off the snake and the tail dies soon after.

    • Bill Boltz

      The snake has many heads (Medussa) Ted Cruz, Paul Ryan, Eric Canter…. Boner will be removed as speaker and the civil war will begin. Time to thin-out the herd.

      • Eleanore Whitaker

        They’ve been spoiling for a Civil War since they lost the first one. But, look at what happened back then. The Central government did not recognize the Confederacy. And, if these stupids are thinking they can just secede, they’d best think again. No state outside of their Confederacy will allow them interstate commerce without taxing hell out of them. And, they surely can’t expect the minorities they so detest to fight on the side of bigots…or, maybe they really are THAT stupid.

        • Bill Boltz

          Yes, Eleanore…..they have displayed, up to now, that they really are that stupid. Secession didn’t work the first time and it certainly won’t work now. They will be isolated from the rest of the country and they will die for nothing. Very sad scenario.

        • whodatbob

          B.S. No civil war! Tea Party will eat Republican Party then self destruct.

          If your theory were true the bread basket, Midwest would go with the south. It is no longer the 11 States of the deep south vs. the industrial north as it was in 1860. It would be the northeast and west coat against the middle.

          The fine people in the great fly over, as north easterns and west coasters refer to them, are tired of being forced to live by laws forced on them by liberals from the northeast and west cost.

          • RobertCHastings

            Last time I looked (ie. the most recent national election) the northeast was joined by the entire west coast and several midwestern states. To obtain such an electoral majority as Obama did required many more states to be in the blue column than you seem to indicate.

          • Allan Richardson

            The main reason the Midwest stayed with the Union in the first Civil War is the Erie Canal. This made it possible for midwestern farmers to sell their produce by an alternate route than the Mississippi River, which was controlled by slave states. Today, the IDEOLOGICAL rather than commercial traffic is with the South. At least until the districts in midwestern state houses are de-gerrymandered.

        • RobertCHastings

          Prior to our Constitutional Republic, America endured ten years under the Articles of Confederation, a period in which the central government was weak, its only power of taxation lay in tariffs, and its only power to raise an army was with the consent of the individual states. In a global economy, a return to such a setup is ridiculous, but it is what the Tea Party is looking at. Reduce the size and authority of the federal government, leaving only the military and what will happen? Does the name “Egypt” ring a bell?

      • whodatbob

        B.S. No civil war! Tea Party will eat Republican Party then self destruct.

        • Bill Boltz

          LMAO!!! I can only hope.

        • elw

          The Tea Party has already eaten the GOP. The self destruct button has been pushed.

          • Bill Boltz

            If they haven’t eaten them, they definitely bent Boehner over a counter and ……..well…….you know…I think John likes that shit.

          • elw

            HA, thanks always good to find humor in the craziness.

          • Bill Boltz

            I wonder who’s voting us down…..is it John himself???? OMG!!

          • Russell Byrd

            No, I think whodatbob has been having a squabble with one or another of our resident scuzzbuckets, infadelicate and Bozo.
            When they get in the “mood” they will just carpet bomb the down vote button. Of course, I do to . . . on them.

          • Russell Byrd

            Do you think that is the real reason he is always crying? I guess he needs to “feel” the love.

      • TheSkalawag

        I think the Hydra would be a better analogy. And like the Hydra the tea party must be struck in the heart in order to stop it. If you cut off a head another grows to take its place.

        • Bill Boltz

          Very good “The Skalawag”. I sit corrected.

      • JDavidS

        Bill… I only disagree with one aspect of your comment. That would be stating that Lyin’ Ryan was one of many heads. Surely Ryan is an ass.

        • Bill Boltz

          How did I miss that?? I’m batting zero today. Thank you for correcting my swing. LOL!! Surely Ryan can be easily mistaken for the debris forced violently from the ass.

          • Russell Byrd

            Is anyone familiar with the old joke about the a-hole that wanted to be boss? I think the situation with the tea potty House is exactly the same.

            This version is not the best, but all the links that I could find quickly were the same:

            http://www.c4vct.com/kym/humor/whoboss.htm

            Notice: This is slightly off color.

          • Bill Boltz

            Thank you Russell….I’ll have to check this out on my phone since the company I work for will block it I’m sure. 8)

          • Russell Byrd

            Please, don’t get into any trouble! This might also describe someone in your close proximity.

    • idamag

      The t potty is going to replace Boehner anyway. I think Cantor wants the job.

      • Eleanore Whitaker

        What Cantor wants and what the American majority want are not Cantor’s to override. Cantor, Ryan, Issa, Inhofe, Cruz and Cornyn are artificially inseminated Koch clones. They look alike, act alike, talk alike and come from the same fraternal patriarchs feeding billions to the Tea Party. The bigger they are the harder they fall…The Tea Party buffoons are about to crash big time.

  • nobody

    Drug & Alcohol Test the damn drunk draft dodgers who make so much money off the suffering of their own Citizen’s!

  • Truthteller1952

    If, indeed, the Tea Party went to Washington with the intent to close the government, that would, by all precepts of law, be treason. Hang the bastards!

    • whodatbob

      I have some rope.

      • Russell Byrd

        If you are really going to do it, let me know. I want to invest in some “rope” futures. Business WILL be brisk.

    • idamag

      Yes, they are committing treason. We have a Democracy. We had a healthcare reform that was passed by a 2/3 majority vote and upheld by the Supreme Court. That is the way a Democracy works.

  • Mark Forsyth

    Before we expel these bastards from government we should inspect their scalps for numbers.We already know that they are bad.

  • jointerjohn

    Our President needs to start using his authority to move military bases and operations back to the blue states. Let’s see how cocky Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama and Florida feel when those military bases are returned to Illinois, Michigan and Massachusetts. Their pathetic economies will fold like cheap card-tables.

    • Allan Richardson

      Good idea. That way, if they do try to secede, they won’t get all the goodies. I hate to think of a nuclear armed Texas; that would be worse than Iran!

      • jointerjohn

        Texas with nuclear weapons is everyone’s worst nightmare. Like a two year old with a hand grenade. Years ago when I was a law enforcement officer we had a saying, “Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is a federal law enforcement agency, except in Texas, where it is the recipe for a party.”

  • J Goncalves

    Sadly, this country now has a 3 party system of government. The Republican party, the Democratic party and the Tea party. Nothing will get done in congress until one party has both houses of congress and the White House.

    • tax payer

      You forgot the Illegal’s Party. Wait, isn’t that the Democrat Party? Oh sure, so you are correct we do have three of them.

      • ObozoMustGo

        BINGO!!!!!!!

  • elw

    I truly hope the radicalized Republicans that have pushed this shut down are proud enough to brag about it. They do not have to put up an actual “mission accomplished” sign to they can own what they have done, they just have to keep talking in front of those cameras. As much as they would like to think so, they do not have the majority of Americans on their side and they will bear the brunt of that disapproval. As for myself, their actions have only encouraged me to give everything I can to next congressional election in my area. As a retired adult I plan to contribute as much time and money as I can to ensure that Darrel Issa does not return to Congress in his next election. The one thing these very myopic Republicans refuse to see is that what they do will have consequences, much as it did in the last shut down. They underestimated the voters in their districts last time they shut the government down and they have done so again.

  • Windy

    The Republicans are so sure they are safe in the next election that they voted the shutdown, but little do they know the country does not feel that way. I hope they all get defeated. The Tea Party needs to go, they do more harm than good. They are trying to destroy the American way of life

  • ObozoMustGo

    EJ Dionne, the dutiful useful idiot du jour once again attempts to carry Obozo’s water by spreading his lies and propaganda. EJ, you give yellow journalism a good name!

    The fact is this:

    THIS SHUTDOWN IS 100% OBOZO’S AND DIRTY HARRY’S DOING

    The only purpose for this shutdown is for Obozo to use as a gambit to try to discredit his biggest enemy, the Tea Party, in advance of the 2014 elections. Just like he used the IRS to harass and prevent many TP organizations from raising money and doing the ground work, this time he’s using the government shutdown as his pawn. The Tea Party are the only ones that can rival his ground game, and he knows it. And if he does not get the House back in 2014, he’s worse than a lame duck. You see, Obozo is a narcissist of the worst kind, and he will hurt whomever he must, he will falsely denigrate whomever he must, he will lie, manipulate, and abuse his power for his own ego if he thinks history will see him as a failure (don’t worry Obozo, you’re a failure in the present. Just ask Assad and Putin).

    Obozo is an evil piece of garbage, and EJ Dionne is being used like a fool for putting up such garbage as to blame Obozo’s political gambit the HE HIMSELF INITIATED on a group of people that only want to see a Constitutionally limited government as it was always intended to be. They are average Americans who disagree with the ACA that was shoved down their throats without a single bit of input from the opposition. Shame on you EJ. It’s clear to anyone objective that you have sold out what smidgen of professional integrity you have to the cause of the leftists. You’re not a journalist any longer, EJ. You’re a mouthpiece for a political agenda. Too bad.

    Have a nice day!

    “If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it’s free!” — P.J. O’Rourke

    • whodatbob

      Have you ever had an original thought? Or are you a Fox News parrot?

      • infadelicious

        Have you ever had a colonoscopy? Cause birdbrain would love to help you out

        • whodatbob

          Have you? And why would you care? Or do you obsessed with anuses?

          • Russell Byrd

            Yes whodatbob, he is totally obsessed with anuses. I’d make sure your belt is snug when IT is around.

          • infadelicious

            I’m not obsessed with anuses. But if I run into anyone that is ill be sure to send em to see you and your bum buddy bob.

          • Russell Byrd

            Anyone you do run into, WILL be “ill.” You have that effect on people.

            You are obsessed with anuses. The more you carp about it, the more you prove your true obsession.

            And leave bob out of this. Address me, delicate infant. Only a total ass would come here to stir up arguments when you do not even have enough brain power to offer coherent discussion.

            Like I told your butt buddy. Watch the flush lever. Someone might flip it and send you on your way to your doom.

          • infadelicious

            Tell your bum buddy the birdbrain I’ll address whoever I want.

          • Russell Byrd

            I guess you wear the guard so that you do not compulsively stick your tongue in one of those anuses you are so interested in. You are just so depraved, er I mean, deprived. Well, depraved does pretty much describe you.

            Do you pull this nonsense because you are a total f*ck-up or because you are just stupid? Well?

          • infadelicious

            Warning! Russell Byrd hair trigger temper alert!! Engage bullcrap deflector shields! You are dismissed Byrd! YAWN Same old worn out attempts at insults you are a sad clown Send as many vulgar posts as you like , you’ll be talking to yourself As usual. Try not to bore yourself to death. Have A nice nite ;-)

          • Russell Byrd

            Yeah, you tell the same old worn out lies. You have never made a point against me. Of course, you have never made a point at all. In the end, you always run.

            Too stupid to figure out what is going on. Even after you have been told endlessly. Please continue, loser.

            Like I said, be careful that you do not get flushed . . . . turd.

            As an old adage: You think you are hot sh*t, but you are just a little cold turd.

            As far as hair trigger temper, what does it matter. You talk stupid and crazy, and you try real hard to anger people. You accuse me of having a hair trigger temper, but you do deserve a good thrashing.

            So, what do you win by me having a hair trigger? You are still going to be a LYING, stupid turd, AND I still won’t.

          • Russell Byrd

            Coming from you it doesn’t matter. . . .

            You saying that I am not very bright, is like an idiot calling a genius stupid, BECAUSE he is a genius.

          • infadelicious

            obviously, it does matter bird brain, or you wouldn’t keep replying to someone who isn’t even addressing the comment to you… so keep festering away….. so angry… so sad..please get help for your anger issues birdy………shalom ;-)

          • Russell Byrd

            You mention me, then it IS about me. That is one of the problems with you turds. You are SO special.

            Definitely special. Just not in the way you think.

            I think you should get help for your festering hatred, your delusions of grandeur, your pathological LYING, and psychotic projection of your own foul traits onto other people.

            You are a cornucopia of mental derangement. Clinical psychologists would line up to study you

          • infadelicious
          • Russell Byrd

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Man, am I ever getting you to waste your time! You are UNUSUALLY ANGRY TODAY!

            That “hair trigger” temper is going to be the death of you. Yet, on a serious note . . . DON”T GET ANY HELP. GO AHEAD AND STROKE OUT!!! Hallelujah!

          • infadelicious

            my job here is done! you are at a nice angry simmer… i will be going now cause you are boring and incoherent and probably covered in your own drool… hahaha! you are so easily riled..you are dismissed again!!!!! but feel free to ramble on muttering to yourself and hey! don’t forget to use your tourette’s to its fullest…CU later……….some of us have a life and messing with what’s left of your brain becomes boring after awhile…. bye bye birdy.. here s a nice pic of you

          • Russell Byrd

            Go ahead and run away chickenshit. You always do. Thanks for giving us what we want.

            Do you think any of your inane insults is of any consequence to me. You have just wasted an entire morning being an ass. I have “wasted” an entire morning being successful and running you off.

            Of course, I know you are not really gone. You reserve the right to LIE at any time.

            At least now, we know what you really look like. And what you do. BWWWAAAAHHHH!!!!

          • infadelicious
          • Russell Byrd

            Got it bad don’t you.

            1. What I said stands on its own.
            2. Your bullshit is just exactly that and does not stand.
            3. Still carrying on about the same falsehoods.
            4. No original thought whatsoever.

            As you dickheads are so fond of saying, it is a public group.

            Like one “delicate infant” dickhead said, ‘ll address whoever I want.” Don’t you agree that “He really isn’t terribly bright . . . .?

          • Russell Byrd

            If you give me your information, I will be happy to pre-register you. That way, there will be no embarrassment on your part.

            Of course, you probably confuse a trip to the nut house with a formal outing. Both fit you for a “white jacket and tie.”

        • Russell Byrd

          If it isn’t the the delicate infant. The child that wears his diaper on his face. Isn’t he just so sweet. Really, a little too sweet for me.

          And yes whodatbob, he is totally obsessed with anuses. I’d make sure your belt is snug when IT is around.

          • infadelicious

            Are the meds keeping a lid on that hair trigger temper of yours? Fern can adjust them if needed / she’s a nurse. Sure sure

          • Russell Byrd

            I could give you a beat down anytime I found you. BUT, I am not like that. I would not dirty my hands with you. I was taught to keep my hands out of “sh*t” when I was still in diapers.

            I can hear that creak where someone is shaking the flush handle. I think you had better be watching out. :-)

          • ObozoMustGo

            You mean Fern Wookfork, the crackwhore of The Memo?

        • ObozoMustGo

          he gets a colonoscopy every time he goes to the dentist…. just sayin

      • idamag

        I’d say the latter.

    • Russell Byrd

      YOUR STATEMENT IS 100% FALSE. Now, that is truth. Go figure.

      Nothing new on that topic. Still the Bozo.

      I think rather, your name should be BozoMustGoGo. And that you should . . . GO! As for your avatar, America thinks differently than your mob of goons do. YOU LOST!

      • ObozoMustGo

        It’s byrdbrain!!!! How are you byrdbrain? Wipe that drool from your chin.

        • Russell Byrd

          I’m fine BozoMustClown. Strange you would use a cartoon of what you seem to depict as me coming out of your clueless BozoMustClown head. The eyes and tongue give you away.

          I think it is so sweet that you got one up vote from your closet queen clone. Isn’t togetherness so touching. Of course, you two would be “touching.”

          BUT, as I say, TURDS in the sh*tter, stink together. So keep an eye on that toilet handle. Wouldn’t want anyone to flush two of my favorite turds down the pipe. :-)

          • ObozoMustGo

            It’s byrdbrain!!!! How are you byrdbrain? Wipe that drool from your chin.

          • Russell Byrd

            Well, I see you still do not have an original idea in your head. The problem I have when replying to you is you are SO BORING. My isn’t the evil, baby Bozo so cute.

          • infadelicious

            and you should be together with your bum buddy… bird brain and crap for brains….perfect…

          • Russell Byrd

            Oh my. My favorite turd is posting again. Good cartoon. Obama is thinking about YOU. Maybe he will have a new waste disposal plan to handle turds like you.

            How childish are you GOONS? You can never “win” anything here. I will always be here. What about you?

            By the way, how much time did you “waste” coming up with this “waste” of time. I guess since you are “waste,” you have plenty to spare.

            As far as “bum buddy,” you and “Bozo” are the only two here in that kind of relationship. I am not at all Homophobic, but I object strenuously to a couple of closet queens calling other people names.

        • foundingprinciples

          Here is a typical Obama follower.

    • Russell Byrd

      ObozoMustGo is an evil piece of garbage . . . . Your welcome in advance for the correction. Always ready to lend a helping hand to those in need.

      Sorry, no one could fix that run on ball of confusion you wrote after that. What a raving nut.

      • ObozoMustGo

        It’s byrdbrain!!!! How are you byrdbrain? Wipe that drool from your chin.

        Have a nice day, and keep avoiding the appearance of foolishness!

        “People do not wish to appear foolish; to avoid the appearance of foolishness, they are willing to remain actually fools.” ― Alice Walker

        • Russell Byrd

          Words from a turd that uses a name that attacks our President, in a group that will never accept him, in a campaign that he can never win, whose racism and bigotry drive people TO his opposition, and above all else, hasn’t the sense to realize that the object of his hatred is going absolutely nowhere.

          Add to that the breathtaking amount of time he wastes in his futile, senseless mission. He tops all this off by using a quote, totally out of context, by someone that would hate him, to accuse SOMEONE ELSE OF BEING A FOOL.

          This one will be good for syndication. I am going to use this as a pointer when you are troublesome. I am sure any number of people will get a good laugh.

      • idamag

        Russell, obozo, infantlicious, and floundering principles are programmed whack jobs. In past posts obozo let his racism slip. I wouldn’t be surprised if he turns out to be a member of the white supremists or the KKK. None of these hateful anti-American Democracy whack jobs are worth answering as you are not getting an exchange of ideas. None of them are educated.

  • Brenda Ford

    Letter regarding Government Shutdown & Republicans
    explicit in this, October 2, 2013

    The Republican Party was oblivious to the obvious needs and wishes of the American People in our last election. They were so perceptually blind that they were actually shocked when they lost the election. They continue to destroy their party, and ignore what the polls are telling them. They continue to be oblivious to the needs of
    the people or of our country. While they cannot be impeached, they can be removed from seats in Congress and/or Senate. Furthermore, those members of Congress and/or of the U.S. Senate, who are holding America hostage are guilty of the following:

    1) They are willfully using terrorist tactics, just as a terrorist or terrorist
    group would do; foreign or domestic;

    2) they are willfully holding the U.S. economy hostage, and in so doing, the
    economy of countries around the world hostage, by their actions; as well as
    holding hostage the American people;

    3) in so doing, they are willfully levying war against the U.S. government,
    it’s citizens, by willful destructive acts, to cause harmful damage to the
    American economy, and it’s government, and against the lawful citizens of the
    country, by their actions;

    4) they have/are engaging in rebellion or insurrection against the authority of
    the United States or the laws thereof;

    5) they conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government
    of the United States, and in fact levy war against the government of the United States:

    6)they oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, contrary to the authority thereof;

    7) They are committing what borders on treasonous acts. (See definitions below
    for Treason, (including) Rebellion or insurrection, Seditious conspiracy,
    Activities affecting armed forces generally, Activities affecting armed forces
    during war.)

    I. See below the laws defining “treasonous acts”
    (18 USC § 2381 – Treason: Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115, §2381.
    Also, 18 USC § 2383 – Rebellion or insurrection: Title 18, Part I , Chapter
    115, § 2383. Also, USC § 2384 – Seditious conspiracy: US, Title 18, Part I,
    Chapter 115, §238.
    Also, 18 USC § 2387 – Activities affecting armed forces generally.
    Also, 18 USC § 2388 – Activities affecting armed forces during war: Title 18,
    Part I , Chapter 115, § 2388.
    These 5 mentioned are defined below.)

    II. See below: While they cannot be impeached, they can be legally removed from
    office. Article I, Section 5, clause 2, of the Constitution, a Member of
    Congress may be removed from office before the normal expiration of his or her
    constitutional term by an “expulsion” from the Senate (if a Senator) or from
    the House of Representatives (if a Representative) upon a formal vote on a
    resolution agreed to by two-thirds of the Members of that body present and
    voting. See in full below.

    ISSUES REGARDING TREASON:

    18 USC § 2381 – Treason: Title 18, Part I , Chapter 115, §2381 , Current
    through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    “Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them
    or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or
    elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.”

    18 USC § 2383 – Rebellion or insurrection: Title 18, Part I , Chapter 115, §
    2383, Current through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    “Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or
    insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or
    gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not
    more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office
    under the United States.”

    USC § 2384 – Seditious conspiracy: US, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115, §2384,
    Current through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    “If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject
    to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or
    to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against
    them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent,
    hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to
    seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the
    authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not
    more than twenty years, or both. ”

    18 USC § 2387 – Activities affecting armed forces generally: Current through
    Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    “(a) Whoever, with intent to interfere with, impair, or influence the
    loyalty, morale, or discipline of the military or naval forces of the United States: (1)
    advises, counsels, urges, or in any manner causes or attempts to cause
    insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the
    military or naval forces of the United States; or (2) distributes or attempts
    to distribute any written or printed matter which advises, counsels, or urges
    insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty by any member of the
    military or naval forces of the United States— Shall be fined under this title
    or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both, and shall be ineligible for
    employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the
    five years next following his conviction. (b) For the purposes of this section,
    the term “military or naval forces of the United States” includes the Army of
    the United States, the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Navy
    Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, and Coast Guard Reserve of the United States;
    and, when any merchant vessel is commissioned in the Navy or is in the service
    of the Army or the Navy, includes the master, officers, and crew of such
    vessel. ”

    18 USC § 2388 – Activities affecting armed forces during war: Title 18, Part I
    , Chapter 115, § 2388, Current through Pub. L. 113-36. (See Public Laws for the
    current Congress.)

    “(a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully makes or conveys
    false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or
    success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the
    success of its enemies; or, Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully
    causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or willfully obstructs the recruiting or
    enlistment service of the United States, to the injury of the service or the United States, or attempts to do so— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
    (b) If two or more persons conspire to violate subsection (a) of this section and one or more such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy shall be punished as provided in said subsection (a).
    (c) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has reasonable grounds to believe or suspect, has committed, or is about to commit, an offense under this section, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. (d) This section shall apply within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of
    the United States, and on the high seas, as well as within the United
    States.”

    Treason Law & Legal Definition

    It is stated that a person commits the crime of treason if he levies war against his state or against his country or sides to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort. Treason is a crime under federal and some state laws. Treason is made a high crime,
    punishable by death, under federal law by Article III, section 3 of the U.S.
    Constitution: “Treason against the United States shall consist only in
    levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and
    comfort.” They are committing what borders on treasonous acts, willfully bringing about the shutdown of government.

    REMOVAL OF A MEMBER OF CONGRESS OR A MEMBER OF THE SENATE:

    While they are immune to impeachment, Under Article I, Section 5, clause 2, of
    the Constitution, a Member of Congress may be removed from office before the
    normal expiration of his or her constitutional term by an “expulsion” from the
    Senate (if a Senator) or from the House of Representatives (if a Representative) upon a formal vote on a resolution agreed to by two-thirds of the Members of that body present and voting. While there are no specific grounds for an expulsion expressed in the Constitution, expulsion actions in both the House and the Senate have generally concerned cases of perceived disloyalty to the United States, or the conviction of a criminal statutory offense which involved abuse of one’s official position. Each house has broad authority as to the grounds, nature, timing, and procedure for an expulsion of a Member. However, policy considerations, as opposed to questions of authority,
    have appeared to restrain the Senate and House in the exercise of expulsion when it might be considered as infringing on the electoral process, such as when the electorate knew of the past misconduct under consideration and still elected or
    re-elected the Member. As to removal by recall, the United States Constitution does not provide for nor authorize the recall of United States officers such as Senators, Representatives, or the President or Vice President, and thus no Member of Congress has ever been recalled in the history of the United States. The recall of Members was considered during the time of the drafting of the federal Constitution in 1787, but no such provisions were included in the final version sent to the states for ratification, and the specific drafting and ratifying debates indicate an express understanding of the framers and ratifiers that no right or power to recall a Senator or Representative in Congress exists under the Constitution. Although the Supreme Court has not needed to directly address the subject of recall of Members of Congress, other Supreme Court decisions, as well as the weight of other judicial and administrative decisions, rulings, and opinions, indicate that (1) the right to remove a Member of Congress before the expiration of his or her constitutionally established term of office is one which resides exclusively in each house of Congress as expressly delegated in the expulsion clause of the United States Constitution, and (2) the length and number of the terms of office for federal officials, established and agreed upon by the states in the Constitution creating that federal government, may not be unilaterally changed by an individual state, such as through the enactment of a recall provision or a term limitation for a United States Senator or Representative. Under Supreme Court constitutional interpretation, since individual states never had the original sovereign authority to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of service of federal officials agreed to and established in the Constitution, such a power could not be “reserved” under the Tenth Amendment. Even the dissenters in the Supreme Court decision on the Tenth Amendment and term limits, who would have found a “reserved” authority in the states regarding “qualifications” of Members of Congress, conceded that the exclusive authority to remove a sitting Member is delegated to each house in the expulsion clause of the Constitution, and that with respect to “a power of recall … the Framers
    denied to the States [such power] when they specified the terms of Members of
    Congress.” This report has been and will be revised and updated as new decisional material or administrative opinions warrant. (quoted from other sources)

    I submit this for your full consideration.

  • sleeprn01

    THE GOP has from day1 tried by subterfuge and nefarious means to under cut President Obama: 3 days before the inauguration Rush Limbaugh stated that he hopes Obama fails. On the night of the inauguration Eric Cantor with 11 other Republicans met at a popular steak house in Washington, D.C. to determine how to undermine the president. And good old Mitch McConnell 3 days after the inauguration announced that his job was to make sure that President Obama would be a 1 term president. In my 62 years I have never heard of a president being disrespected in a way that this president has been. In addition to the above attempts to undermine President Obama’s presidency members of the GOP have called everything from being a liar, and uppity to boy. If I were President Obama I would not negotiate with the GOP either because they have not in the past negotiated in good faith.

    Ms. Whitaker you are absolutely correct, the GOP wants us to return to the late ’50s when white men were in charge, women stayed barefoot and pregnant, and African Americans knew their place. There has been an ongoing civil war btw. those who want to expand civil rights and those who want to limit those rights. The Obama Presidency has exposed the GOP as to what they really are: a racist and misogynist group that cannot see that the population has changed; their platform has been bigoted, mean spirited, and selfish.

    • ObozoMustGo

      Should the Germans in the early 30’s have hoped Hitler failed? What about the 10’s of millions of murdered Russians? Should they have hoped that Lenin and Stalin failed? Or the Cubans under Castro? Or Venezuelans under Chavez? Or any other peoples that “elected” tyrants that abused them?

      Should they have wanted those guys to fail? Of course they should have. Just like it’s perfectly OK to hope that a socialist president of the United States fails at turning us into socialist democracy like the failures in Europe that are turning away from it now. So yes, we WANT Obozo to fail. And fail miserably.

      Have a nice day!

      “Individual actions, individual dreams, are not sufficient. We must unite in collective action, build collective institutions and organizations.” ~ Barrack Hussein Obozo in a 1995 interview with a now defunct leftist Chicago journal

      • Russell Byrd

        1. A Socialist Democracy is not what Obama is doing. So you lie and hide your real reasons.
        2. A Socialist Democracy would be ideal. You said it yourself, it would be a Democracy. Rule by the people, for the people, that wanted a fair society. EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE AGAINST.
        3. Warm your race card up, because we both know that is a lot of your opposition to Obama.
        4. Having the President fail, would make the Nation fail. Wanting that is TREASONOUS.

        5. European “Socialist Democracies” are NOT turning away from it. That is right-wacker propaganda to disguise the humiliating success those nations have over the lame excuse of a system you are so proud to promote.
        6. Odd that you would put your too heroes right next to the President that you despise. Really, Hitler and Stalin wrote your entire playbook. Obama is nothing like those two, and nothing like you.

        Thank God. . . .

        • foundingprinciples

          “Socialist Democracy” is only a temporary concession to an ignominious defeat of worldwide Marxian Socialism; nothing has fundamentally changed, Comrade. This garbage was spearheaded by Attlee in Britain. They want to reclaim the Socialist “dream.” Haven’t you ever looked at their origins, pal? They think that WW2 was from a “crisis of capitalism!” The Great Depression caused it, right?

          Don’t believe this? THEN LOOK AT THE CHARTER OF THE LABOUR PARTY, BUDDY. Clause IV calls for the common ownership of the “means of production.” They want to nationalize land, heavy industry, banking, transport, and fuel!

          Here is a quote from the leader, Attlee:
          “Social justice could only be attained by bringing under public ownership and control the main factors in the economic system.

          Sure, they adapted – They had to. But if they have their chance, and they will play on the fears, weaknesses and envy of the populace, the filthy socialists will do it again.

          • Russell Byrd

            More to the point right now, is what Jefferson said: If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

            PAL, these quotes represent what is EVIL and UNTRUTHFUL about you ilk, AND WHAT MY POST WAS REALLY ABOUT! So don’t take it too amiss if I call you an SOB, PAL. I have no reason to mince words with a selfish moron and no reason to be kind . . . .

          • foundingprinciples

            “Socialist Democracy” is only a temporary concession to an ignominious defeat of worldwide Marxian Socialism!

            You can deflect all you want, but the “dream” is still there with the Socialist SOB, despite 100 MILLION DEAD!

          • Russell Byrd

            Now you must resort to out-right lies to keep your disgusting views in play. “Socialists,” as you want to confuse the term them with Communists, have likely never killed anybody. Capitalists on the other hand, are responsible for just as many deaths as Communists.

            Once again, you only selectively read. You take a couple of lines out of a post to vehemently attack. Then you do the same thing to the reply. Your are not worth the turds you lick, SOB. So, PAL, get an original thought.

            Socialism and Democracy have always walked hand in hand. Totalitarianism, which is what YOU describe, is pure tyranny whether it is CAPITALIST or COMMUNIST. So get a brain, PAL.

          • foundingprinciples

            Socialists essentially maintain that all the bad stuff done in the name of socialism is communism, and that all of the good stuff is socialism. Free healthcare? Hey, man – socialism. Political repression? That is communism! Public pensions? Wow! Socialism. The Gulag? No, that is Communism. Whether a person describes a particular situation as socialist or communist, one is explaining different expressions of a single phenomenon. The greatest Commie leaders regularly describe themselves, their work, and their philosophy as SOCIALIST!

          • Russell Byrd

            More twisting of words and meanings. You simple minded twits, ALWAYS right-wackos, NEED slogans and labels for anything and everyone. Then you proceed to name call that those labels are BAD. Like Liberal or Progressive or Socialist.

            Your true motives are pure evil. I have already reasoned this with you, at GREAT LENGTH. I have no need to repeat for a third time. You are a LIAR and twister of words to defame anyone or anything different than your evil desires.

            PAL, you are just another irate, simple-minded Fascist that thinks bullying is the way to win arguments and run economies.

          • foundingprinciples

            No slogans at all. Observations, summaries and conclusions based on understanding Socialism. Heck, I lived on the economy in a Socialist country.

            Furthermore, “slogans?” I provided quotes from the Socialist scholars themselves!

            I do not lie. I describe the truth about Socialism. It fools people because of the promises it makes. I have seen it destroy the morals and initiative of the people. Taken to the logical extreme that it is driven as an inextricable part of its own survival, it results in TYRANNY. Not necessarily the police stomping in doors and reeducation camps (even though the more revolutionary socialists in America during the 1970s ACTUALLY PLANNED THAT), but the malaise, the dependency, the lack of initiative, the weakness. Read “Brave New World.” Not Orwell’s description which is violent and overtly oppressive, but Huxley’s prescience. That is what Socialists today are driving toward……

          • Russell Byrd

            Actually, you are nothing but a “sloganista.” Your entire argument runs on like a broke record. You are reading it off of a cue card. I say that figuratively, but I suspect that is what you are really doing.

            Since you drone on about what you want to say, but never listen or answer any questions. Since you have done it in a most insulting manner, which I have by right replied to in kind, I think there is no reason for me to play your game. No you are not winning. You have already lost, but you are playing for some kind of sick last word.

            Sorry, you picked the wrong guy.

            Once again, why is your history blocked. How long have you been selling your soul for money? Your true handle from now on will be “Koch whore .”

          • foundingprinciples

            Not true, and you know it. I provided quotes, references and even links. I provided the concepts and rationales. I know this stuff. Heck, you do not even know who my avatar is.

          • Russell Byrd

            I just arrived on this one. Looks like Milton Friedman to me. Smart man, but not my cup of tea. I much prefer Keynes, but I the best economist was Galbraith.

            I understand. Your kind of economist is deep into compiling statistics to support the most efficient ways to make money. I was a Geo-economist that is still more interested in the impact on the population. As I have said, if your idols are making a killing, but half the population lives in misery, then we have to make adjustments. For you the stack of cash, for those you have an unnatural crush upon, is everything. To Hell with everyone else. For me, the statistics are just a means to find out what the trends are. Not rule of law. It is the people as a whole that matter.

            No, we cannot cure all the world’s ills, but damnation follows those that do not try.

          • Russell Byrd

            Like Eastwood said, “you are a legend in your own mind.” You might try coming out of that evil hole into the light of the real world. Maybe, try to do a real day’s work. Rather than just down people you do not know and know nothing about.

            That is why we have the political impasse that we have. You think everyone must follow your fouled-up, evil world view, for no other reason than you say it is true. That is symptomatic of every LIAR I have ever met.

          • Russell Byrd

            Since you essentially have adopted the right-wacker technique of winning an argument by conttinuous bullying, and since I have several times explained my views, I am going to ask some questions.

            Why does you sacks of sh*t always use some exalted name pertaining to things you do not believe in?

            Why do you never use your real name?

            Why do you use an avatar that looks like a caricature of a wise owl teaching, rather preaching, to people that do not give a damn?

            Why does your kind always block your history?

            ARE you scared? I already have the true answer.

            ARE you a coward? Yes, that is in evidence.

            Why do you hate so much?

          • foundingprinciples

            {Why does you sacks of sh*t always use some exalted name pertaining to things you do not believe in?}

            That makes no sense.

            {Why do you never use your real name?}

            Because one cannot trust Left-wingers. They found out my identity on one forum, and they investigated, find out where I live. The Left-wingers then put up my photo, the town in which I live, where I went to school, and even where I worked! One freakin’ Leftist sent me a virus that almost destroyed my computer. I can tell you about plenty of other people. One found out the identity of a Conservative and started claiming he was a child molester. He consider a lawsuit, but concluded it was not worth it. Leftists are extremely hateful. You are losing it and demonstrating your own hate.

            {Why do you use an avatar that looks like a caricature of a wise owl teaching, rather preaching, to people that do not give a damn?}

            That shows your ignorance of the very things about which we are “discussing.” The person is a Nobel Prize winner, and the pencil is a prop from a brief video he made to demonstrate a concept about the free market. if you knew ANYTHING about BASIC economics, you would know who that is.

            {Why does your kind always block your history?}

            Reasons described above. Leftists are obsessive and personalize. They will do anything, they are capable of anything. They cannot be trusted.

          • Russell Byrd

            DAMN do you ever lie.

            Once again, why do you never use your real name? We both know that you are such an intrusive bastard that someone should do you harm. If you are so afraid, you should not be picking fights on a board where you are obviously unwelcome.

            So you are a COWARD and a LIAR. No surprise, I have seen many of you here before.

            The behavior you describe is almost entirely the guilt of your right-wacker PALS. Therefore, I take it you made that shit up to put another feather in you ass.

          • foundingprinciples

            Hey, Comrade, let’s not take MY word for it. Let’s see what the experts have to say, shall we?

            When Paul Sweezy, a prominent Marxist economist and founder of the Monthly Review (“a leading voice of independent Marxian socialism”) and Socialist coeditor Leo Huberman were asked to explain the difference between Socialism and Communism, they gave the following response:

            “Socialism and communism are alike in that both are systems of production for use based on public ownership of the means of production and centralized planning. Socialism…is the first form of the new society. Communism is a further development or “higher stage” of socialism…Socialism is…the necessary transition stage from capitalism to communism.”

          • Russell Byrd

            Totally irrelevant. Someone else’s views are their own. By the way, do you actually do any thinking, or do you let propaganists fill your head with swill.

            Once again, back to the beginning. Not only have you been totally off topic, but you cherry-picked a few of my words to start a fight.

            I want you to realize this, but beyond that I do not care. You are the one wasting your time, busting a gut, making am ass of yourself to prove you have rights that we untermensch do not have. Sieg heil, mein Fuhrer!

          • foundingprinciples

            {Sieg heil, mein Fuhrer!}

            Hitler was a Socialist, pal!

            “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions”
            – Adolf Hitler

          • Russell Byrd

            As an Historian, I can say with certainty that the record shows Hitler was selected by the Capitalists. The reason follows obvious truth. The German bankers and industrialists thought Hitler could be controlled and was most likely to do what would enhance their wealth. They got rather more than they expected, but they were largely right.

            Hindenburg’s rationale is not entirely known, but a lot of evidence, as well as simple logic, points to the fact that this cabal of Capitalists had his ear. So much for 40 million dead attributable directly to a madman backed by Capitalists.

            Did you know that the biggest manufacturer of trucks for the German military was a division of GM?

          • foundingprinciples

            Oh, an Historian?” With a capitol “H,” no less. An historian who does not even know who my avatar is.

            No, the Nazis controlled the companies. That was de facto socialism, pal. You do not even know the limited history you claim to know! What a laugh! The Nazis controlled not only the AMOUNT of production, but what would be produced and where it would go. The Nazis controlled labor, and told the owners how much to pay them! The Nazis set the prices for all of the products!

            You do not know that BASIC stuff? In-credible! Who was your history teacher, Howard Zinn? I bet you know THAT name!

          • Russell Byrd

            It is a proper noun in this context. If that is the best you have, then you do not have anything. I already named your avatar, twice, and am now alluding to the name for the second time.

            Nazis did not control the factories except in the context of ruling Germany. As well, the fact that the Capitalists did not get full control of Hitler belies the fact that was their intention.

            You got me on that one, I do not know who Howard Zinn is, but I do know Milton Friedman.

            And I must remind you that your stupid assumptions of who I am told a great tale of who you are, or aren’t. Ya shur ain’t ta brite.

            I suggest you read any good general history about the Nazis. Shirer is still about the best as he saw them in action on a daily basis.

          • Russell Byrd

            Hitler was not a real Socialist. You are destroying your own
            argument. I could call you a reasonable caring human being, but I wouldbe lying on all points. Calling yourself something does not make it true.

            However, and the most important fact that you will never disprove, Socialism has nothing to do with Totalitarianism.
            Such as what Communists do, and Capitalists want to do. Democracy prevents, at least to some extent, Capitalists getting their Totalitarian society. The only real difference is Communism never had that constraint. You will never disprove those statements, therefore you will never get that great “victory” that would fulfill you useless little life.

          • foundingprinciples

            The main purpose of Leftist Nazism was not to set up a Socialist state, of course. But they were socialists. To deny that is to prove that one is a brain-ossified dolt of the Leftist propaganda.

          • Russell Byrd

            Maybe, you should get the Hell out like you said. The Nazis were “Leftist,” Your nuts. NO ONE WILL SUPPORT THAT! I will be in an absolute majority on that one.

            You not only know no history, you really do not know any econ either. Are you stuck with thinking that the radical right-wing is ordained by God or something. The Nazis WERE THE RADICAL RIGHT WING. I guess you really do want to be like them. The NAZIS were socialist in name only. It was a word they used.

            The irony here is, you would hate them for calling themselves “socialist,” but you would not care how many people and nations they destroyed, as long as the rich are making money.

            I am going to repost that little blurb until you are a laughing stock.

          • Paul Bass

            “Leftist Nazism” . Aren’t these terms mutually exclusive?

          • foundingprinciples

            No. Nazism was a Leftist disorder. It has the following in common with today’s Liberals:

            1. Centralization of power.
            2. Enforcing conformity in behavior and speech (Liberals’ political correctness, diversity training, speech codes, etc.)
            3. Government management of the economy.
            4. The idea of an ideal, a “dream” society. By the Nazi’s standards, not the people’s, of course. This is the same as Liberals: They get the courts to force things on the people, going against self-government and the democratic process.

          • Paul Bass

            No,
            These are the characteristics of “extremism”, and admittedly if you don’t look carefully, it is hard to tell the left from the right.

            I’m pretty sure most rational historians would say Nazism (despite the fact they have “socialist” in their name.) is a right wing disorder.

          • foundingprinciples

            No. Nazism has much in common with the Left. The only thing some will stretch it to mean it has in common with the right is that it is nationalist. Otherwise, it is a Left-winger ideology. I already explained the reasons.

          • Paul Bass

            Yes!
            Your own words! Nazism is nationalist! NOT the same as Socialist.
            Your “reasons”(opinions!) were for extremism.
            Please review your WWII history, especially in regard to the differences between Adolph’s Germany and Lenin’s Russia. Quite different systems though equally deadly to their own populations.

            Actually I don’t know why I bother answering your posts, since you are so far down the Ayn Rand rat hole justifications for greed and selfishness you think you are always correct.

            Good luck passing through “the eye of the needle” , all these views are going to seem pretty foolish when asked at death’s door, “what did you do to help out?” “I made sure poor people died, because they don’t deserve healthcare.”

          • foundingprinciples

            Write the full translation, the full name of what Nazi means.

            Lenin’s Russia and Nazi Germany had commonalities with each other and with the goals of Left-wingers, even today in America. I already wrote them, and the most important is the Leftists’ desire to defer virtually all issues of concern to the Central Authority, and Liberals today demand conformity, and strive to increase it, to tighten the noose with their political correctness, diversity training, speech codes, and micro-managing of our lives with the bureaucracies. The drive to “collectivism,” as in Hillary’s book in which essentially the government should oversee and standardize the rearing of children is a perfect example.

            All for our own good, of course.

            Of course!

          • Paul Bass

            As lifelong yellow dawg, I always thought MY job was to QUESTION authority!!!
            Damn! I’m supposed to DEFER to Authority? I’d have to start believe Faux, and Rush, and you?
            No, sorry, can’t turn off my brain……
            You sir, have a very narrow and opinionated vision of the “Left” that has little basis in reality, but hey, believe whatever the heck you want
            like “intelligent design”, there is no global warming, guns make people safer, etc. Yes, these ideas will certainly help America compete in the global marketplace!

          • plc97477

            Your problem is you came to a battle of wits unarmed. Next time find out what you need to before taking on the big boys.

          • foundingprinciples

            Hey, I have come to a site that is overrun by Leftists. Small-minded Left-wingers who cannot articulate their own fundamental principles except to say, “we care,” “you are a racist,” “we have compassion.” That is the full extent of the Liberal “philosophy.”

            I know the ideology of the Left-wingers far better than they do, buddy. That is why I get under your skin.

          • Russell Byrd

            You miss what Democracy means. You think of Democracy as a Plutocracy to be run by your idolized bullies.

            As for deflection, I have not deflected one little bit. That is your tactic in your defamation of sound, supported ideas to shame and scare people to your evil viewpoints.

            Freedom, Democracy, free trade, and free enterprise are not threatened by a socialist view. Of course, the failed system of Communism did those things, but a Democracy does what is in the “people’s” own best interests. In your mind the people need to be slaves to do your bidding, as you think it should be.

            By the way, look at China. The biggest totalitarian and Communist nation on Earth. You capitalists have sold our souls to them, bankrupted many of your fellow citizens, and destroyed our futures. All for fast, easy profits. You people are un-American bastards.

          • Russell Byrd

            Why don’t we examine”‘”Socialist Democracy’ is only a temporary
            concession to an ignominious defeat of worldwide Marxian Socialism” while we are at it. What does it even mean?

            If it is only a “temporary concession,” then obviously the “ignominious defeat of worldwide Marxian Socialism” is not dead. By your words, not mine.

          • foundingprinciples

            No, it is not dead, nor will it ever be! There will always be the Left-winger proclivity to centrally manage the lives, property and economy. The fight against Socialism and its evil variations will never end.

          • Russell Byrd

            It is a shame that you must defend the Communists so strongly. That is exactly how they defend their “need” to kill so many reactionaries. They believed it was the only way to save their people. To destroy those that were only bent on harm to their nation in order to sate their evil greed and arrogance.

            Your madcap responses make my bland post rather meek. Anyone that cares about our Nation, that reads your blather, will conclude that stronger measures against your kind are needed. You made a lot of nothing our of some reasonable statements.

            Your kind will guarantee a bloodbath eventually. That is rather frightening.

          • foundingprinciples

            Now you sound like a clown with a ridiculous statement like that.

            You would totally destroy our Founding principles, Comrade. I got you pegged.

          • Russell Byrd

            Our Founders did not talk like you. I am trying to obey the Founding principles. And you do use the same reasoning the Communists do. You just do it for the opposite ideology.

            Again: I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

            Thomas Jefferson

          • foundingprinciples

            Socialism would utterly and completely DESTROY our Founding principles.

          • Russell Byrd

            Stupid lie from a stupid liar. How does that statement relate to reality? No, not your closet reasoning, but the real world. Democracy in its simplest gives everyone and equal chance. Capitalism works to concentrate all the chances, all the money, all the power, etc. into the hands of a rich few. THAT is truth.

          • foundingprinciples

            You are a brainwashed dupe.

          • Russell Byrd

            You are a brainwashed dupe. Thank you.

            Have you ever been on topic, or are you just a troll? I’d say, never on topic AND is a TROLL.

          • Russell Byrd

            It is a very reasonable statement, supported by many REAL case examples. Not your nonsense of “we have a right to everything, because we just do.”

            I only sound like a clown, to an idiot. Idiot! You don’t have shit pegged Herr Gruppenfuhrer.

            Freedom does not destroy freedom. Being turned into a slave to support rich criminals is not freedom.

          • foundingprinciples

            If you feel like a slave, then you are one. You have enslaved yourself. Sorry state in which to be.

          • Russell Byrd

            Well, you are wrong, but even if so, it would be my right to do so. It is not your right to do it for me for money.

            Have you ever been on topic?

            Have you ever really read any of my posts?

          • idamag

            Russell, his arguments are dogmatic and immature. Maybe, it is better to ignore him.

          • Russell Byrd

            Yes, that is truth and wisdom.

          • Russell Byrd

            I do not like using a user’s profile or personal traits, but I could not help notice. Flounderingprinciples has a blocked history, because, he claims, Liberals all so vicious and have made personal attacks against him. Well, I do not believe one word of it, but his “charm” could lead volatile people to wish or attempt him harm.

            More telling, and as I am not exactly a popular poster here either, I find this profound. By his profile, he has made approx. 47% of the number of posts that I have. Yet, his up vote percentage is at less than 4% of what mine is. It does not take a PhD is Astrophysics (or Economics) to understand that this guy is unwelcome everywhere he goes. Apparently, even the right-wackers find him obtuse and ignorant.

          • idamag

            You are correct. Thomas Jefferson warned the people about letting money control their government.

          • Russell Byrd

            Now a little more truth, PAL. This is
            not about Communism. You are trying to confuse the issues to do exactly
            what you accuse Socialists of doing. You want to paralyze us with fear
            and hatred. THEN you rip us off. I really wish you guys would get a
            thought pattern, or at least study more history than just what you need
            to be an a**hole, PAL.

            It is telling that your kind is always
            so against social justice. I guess it does not pay nearly as well. As
            J. K. Galbraith said: The modern conservative is engaged in one of
            man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a
            superior moral justification for selfishness.

          • foundingprinciples

            Socialists prey on people’s fears, and they descend on them at moments of crisis.

            Socialism is for craven cowards. It promises guarantees: A job, a house, medical care, free education, food, everything. Socialism is for those who DO NOT CARE A FLYING F… ABOUT LIBERTY; IT IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE TAKEN CARE OF!

            The very heart of Socialism is the abnegation of responsibility; the very word and ideology of Socialism is that the “society” assumes responsibility for everything.

            It order for this pernicious, malevolent CANCER to work, in order for this scum to survive, it HAS TO UNIFY and standardize everything. It HAS TO. If you do not understand that, you do not know shit about what Socialism is! It is an inextricable part of this heinous abomination. Before, the Socialists wanted it quick – revolution. Now, they realize, especially in a great nation of brave people like America, they cannot have a revolution (even though they have really tried), so they are moving incrementally.

            Socialism is a repugnant, malevolent, hateful dogma. There is no compromising with it.

          • Russell Byrd

            NONE OF WHAT YOU HAVE SAID IS TRUE. Your entire view is out of some right-wackjob propaganda manual. I know, I have read and heard plenty of it. The politics of ME just do not stack up against the WE.

            You ignore my quotes about the rights of the people and the destructive behavior of uncontrolled moneyed interests. I hope you are making a killing in the markets, because a man that so willingly sells his soul for the enslavement of his fellow man, should at least get something before he burns in Hell.

            Socialism is not the hateful dogma you claim. That distinction goes to Capitalism. What I enjoy about our conversation is you prove that Socialism is the only savior of our nation.

            I am normally very tolerant, but asses like you show by your hate and deceit, that you cannot be allowed to continue operating the Ponzi scheme of an economy, that you do. So thanks for strengthening my resolve.

          • foundingprinciples

            It is all true.. Socialism is actually a regression to a barbaric, primitive, tribal past. It is taking us back to the mud and slime. Socialists, as their heroes Marx and Engels taught them, think that it is something advanced, “scientific” and humane, but it is nothing but.

            It is what humans lived in ancient Egypt, in imperial China, in the feudal era: The management of the property, lives and economy of the entire society, in return for the doling out of food, shelter and protection by the central authority. It is barbarism and primitivism.

          • Russell Byrd

            Now you are being intentionally stupid, a LIAR, and actually destroying your own argument. You talk like Socialism is a idealistic pipe dream. That would make it a much higher calling than Capitalism. Now you reverse course. You cannot even get your LIES straight.

            Actually, Capitalism is the triumph of the animal. The taking of all one can get by whatever means.

          • foundingprinciples

            The free market is cooperation. It fosters incentives and creativity. It presses for liberty; it HAS TO. It demands the protection of property and Rule of Law. People who do not even know one another and maybe would otherwise HATE each other actually cooperate for the free market.

            And no freakin’ Socialist can even begin to coordinate and manage it, even though the lying Socialists will not only claim that they can, but that it is imperative.

          • Russell Byrd

            Assuming something that is untrue, and then using to prove an argument that you started under false pretenses is the hallmark of an ass.

            Capitalists and the free market do not mix well. Capitalists want exclusivity regardless of your bad dreams.

          • foundingprinciples

            No, this is what the free market is. I can show you a link to a video that VERY BRIEFLY explains the concept. But you will just start your vapid insults and obtuse deflections.

          • Russell Byrd

            My aren’t you condescending. I insult as a pastime because you have not only earned my derision, I cannot get you to consider any reasonable points. I will ALWAYS keep posting, but though I will selectively try, I realize the futility of trying to discuss anything with you.

            You have actually invaded my turf and you picked a fight over something that you demonstrate an incomplete and very mechanical knowledge about. There is more to life, real life, than your spin tactics.

            A major difference is, I never play to win, you Teatards always do. You want complete submission. You want complete agreement and unconditional surrender. I PLAY NOT TO LOSE. So I only attack bullies and liars. I never try to win the unwinnable, unlike yourself. I realize you haven’t a clue what I mean, but that is the price of your ignorance. I can’t fix stupid, I reason with you, but you must expand your horizons yourself.

          • foundingprinciples

            You made no reasonable points. I understand socialism far, far more than you do. You do not even know who my avatar is, and that speaks volumes.

            I despise your Socialism because it is a cancer, it is an evil in the world. I can only hope that you are not able to influence some young, impressionable people.

          • Russell Byrd

            Well, Koch bite, you are the one that made no reasonable points. You posted in a frenzy to drown out anything I said. As well, you made out every one that could even say the word Socialist as some kind of raving Commie. I just want a decent world where people will have a Democracy. Though right-tards always claim otherwise, an open view of Democracy realizes that Socialism walks hand in hand with a free people. We will do what is in our own best interests. That does not include starving our neighbor and judging them without just cause.

            Face it, you even call the COMMUNIST KILLING NAZIS leftists. That, for no other reason than that word in their name. As you said yourself, just giving something a label does not prove what it is. Yet, you are too stupid to realize that the Nazis are the epitome of the right-wackjobs. You even take lessons from them. For instance, you believe if you tell a lie long enough, it becomes fact. NOT on my watch!

            Knowing your avatar proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. All it proves is you are a petty anal-retentive moron. With truth staring you in the face, you will not see it. While I am reading the document, you would be checking to see if all the “i’s” are dotted.

            About that avatar, I have already named it at least three times. You just cannot read to save your soul. Which, by the way, is already lost.

            Young impressionable people are becoming smart enough to figure out your evil ways without any help from me. They know your greed will never make them a living.

            Like I said, I can’t fix stupid and I will never try. So you will have to fix yourself. Fat chance.

            And, of course, you lie like all right-tards. You say you are gone and insult me in a stupid and foolish manner, but yet, you SNEAK back in here to dump some more malarkey.

            Go ahead and keep posting. Hang around if you like. You were neither invited nor welcome, but staying is your right. Keep in mind, things will get a lot worse.

            If I had my way I would invite you to a “formal” party. White jacket and tie. One way trip to the funny farm.

            I still can’t get over stupidity about Nazi Leftists. You literally destroyed your own argument, without any assistance from me. Like I said, your mob can talk out of both sides of their mouths, and out their a^^es at the same time. Incredible.

            As for despising. I despise YOU and I despise YOUR STUPIDITY, YOUR BIGOTRY, YOUR RACISM, and God only knows what other persversions you are into. I believe in WE. That cooperation you falsely misuse as an argument. YOU believe in ME, and to HELL with everyone else.

            Hopefully, your hatred will back up and you will stroke out tonight. I’m pulling for you!

          • foundingprinciples

            You actually wrote nothing. There was not a single statement that had the slightest bit of substance. I wrote concepts, provided historical information, and even put up names of leading socialist thinkers, their quotes and references.

            You? Nothing but immature screaming and yelling

          • Paul Bass

            It is simple, Tea-Party supporters (An Idea wholly embraced by Henry Ford, one of the biggest Capitalist of all times) it is this:

            We ALL do better when we ALL do better.

            (That’s why Ford gave his employees a living wage about 100 year ago!)

          • foundingprinciples

            Yes. Ford made the choice. Left-winger government did not force him to do that. And the people actually WORKED HARD. He got the BEST people, people who EARNED the income. He was not FORCED BY GOVERNMENT to pay them more than they produced. The idea of giving people money to spend is illogical, irrational. And childish. It is not the thinking of mature, responsible, reasonable people.

          • Paul Bass

            “we ALL do better when we ALL do better” does NOT in any way mean GIVE people money!

            Wow, that was a stretch…

          • foundingprinciples

            No. It means giving money – or its equivalent in FOOD STAMPS, “free” medical care, housing projects, etc.

          • foundingprinciples

            No, it is true. Your vapidly declaring that it is not true does not make it so. You sound like a spoiled brat.

          • Russell Byrd

            I am not the anal-retentive one that picks a fight over a word in a secondary comment. There is a spoiled child here, but it is not I.

          • foundingprinciples

            You are referring to complicity with government, and your “reasoning” (I hate to call it that) is severely flawed. Of course, people with power will tend to try to increase their power. Happens inside and outside of capitalism. Rich people will try to buy government favors and help politicians out in return, essentially try to buy them. And they often succeed.

            So, your conclusion that socialism is some kind of answer is absurd. Look at Sweden, for example. Do you know that the heads of some of the richest companies live abroad to avoid paying taxes?

            The answer is not filthy socialism: The answer is stop letting government collude with monied interests. Socialism will only bring MORE corruption and favortism! And we need a really free market to buttress liberty. I fail to see how you cannot understand that.

          • Russell Byrd

            ” Do you know that the heads of some of the richest companies live abroad to avoid paying taxes” What did that prove? Actually, all it proved is that Capitalist are often criminals that take advantage of loopholes in the law. You did not prove me wrong, but right.

            At least, you finally agree to some of the truth. The difference is the system of Democracy should be made immune to the predatory rich and powerful. Your view is to allow them an inordinate access to control that system.

            IF, you learn just one thing in this exchange, learn this. You are a shill for Capitalism, that denigrates everything Socialist, etc. as being evil because it tends to control the filthy excesses of the fake “system” that you worship. As well, add the greedy practitioners of this system.

            On the other hand, I view everything as Totalitarianism vs. Democracy. Total lack of freedom vs. freedom. You would trade Democracy in a heartbeat for Totalitarianism if it would promote your Capitalist mantra. Fascism, National-Socialism would be acceptable. Even Communism, if they gave you a two-tiered system. I want to destroy Totalitarianism and to promote Democracy. Just not a Democracy that has been subverted to work for the few. That is not really Democracy.

            If Capitalism works to enslave the people, then it must die. If it works to promote wealth for all and a happy people, then it must be preserved. Unfortunately, the former has always been the goal, even when it is not a conscious intention. Today, there is not even a pretense of being the latter. Therefore, this conclusion is really easy for anyone of normal intelligence and decency.

            You are an anal-retentive freak that wants everything simple and in black and white. I do not need a world like that. In fact, unless your entire life is wrapped up in greed, that world is not even interesting to an active mind.

          • idamag

            The free market was destroyed by multi=national corporations

          • foundingprinciples

            {Socialism is not the hateful dogma you claim. That distinction goes to Capitalism.}

            In order to promote your hateful, malevolent, and pernicious cancer of Socialism, you distort and pervert the idea of the free market. If government colludes with monied interests, you attack “capitalism.”

            Rubbish. Dreck. You want more government involvement, the very thing that is the problem: Government collusion with capital. And you want more.

            And do you think that freakin’ SOCIALISM led to improved conditions, longevity, higher levels of income? You think that, for example, our nation should have been based on SOCIALISM? Are you fu…ing kidding me, pal?

          • Russell Byrd

            Thanks for proving my points. You are making a war against a word that you hate. Using LIES and distortions to prove squat.

            I can tell by your extreme angst that you have nothing beyond your simple slogans, PAL.

            Yes, look at Europe. Socialism did exactly to improved conditions, longevity, and higher levels of income. In this nation, trickle down thievery has caused incomes to become stagnant, while profits are at record highs.

            Once again, I hope you are getting well heeled now, because you have sold your soul for money. I do not care, but you do not have a right to trade everyone else’s soul for money.

          • foundingprinciples

            Not a single lie. Not one. I quoted YOUR people in many parts, the socialists themselves!

            Why do you think that Americans reject Socialism, anyway? And Europeans are more inclined to it? Have you ever reflected on it, read about it? Try these books, for example, and don’t give me crap about the authors – Both are very Liberal and recognized scholars:

            http://www.amazon.com/Didnt-Happen-Here-Socialism-Paperback/dp/0393322548/ref=la_B000AP7MLA_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380847427&sr=1-2

            This is a CLASSIC, the best of its kind, and describes why Socialism was rejected in America, with many, many references for further reading (which I know you will never do, of course):

            http://www.amazon.com/Marxian-Socialism-United-Cornell-Paperbacks/dp/0801483093/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380847494&sr=1-1&keywords=marxian+socialism+in+the+united+states

          • Russell Byrd

            No truth. ALL LIES. You are not quoting MY people but what your right-wacker controllers have filled into your head. You came with a pre-prepared ball of nonsense looking for an argument to get into.

            I refuted your bullshit, yet you yammer on. Why did America reject Socialism? By word maybe, by deed not so much. The main reason we are not more heavily Socialist is the rich own our press, our government, and almost literally our skin. We are bombarded from birth to death by simple-minded propaganda touted the virtues of being rich, of course, without ever getting a real share.

            Those that wish to control America in spite of Democracy employ shills like yourself as bully boys. I have noticed that your argument is not at all persuasive. You just bring up pet examples of what the opposition is saying, even though they are not saying those things.

            That is why you are just another useless, right-wing liar.

          • foundingprinciples

            I supplied the names of the socialists. There is no “pre-prepared” anything. I delved into this for a long time and understand it. Heck, you do not even know who my avatar is. That means you do not know much of anything about economics. Pathetic.

          • Russell Byrd

            I rather think you are the one that does not know much about economics. You obviously have not grown up enough to think for yourself. I guess being a sock puppet for your rich gods is very “fulfilling.” Yeah, we know where they put there hand in the puppet. Gives you a real thrill.

          • foundingprinciples

            You do not even know my avatar, one of a world-famous economist! And you claim *I* do not know about economics?

            Go back to your mommy. Socialism, that is. That is your mommy.

          • Russell Byrd

            I guess your Capitalist daddies give you a good rogering. Don’t they?

          • Russell Byrd

            So you know who Milton Friedman is. Does that confer a Masters in Econ on a twit like you? I rather KNOW not.

            So, did you stay in an Holiday Inn?

          • idamag

            Gee, if you choose “Albert Einstein” for an avatar, will that make you smart?

          • idamag

            economics is consumer driven. And if te potential consumers have not the money to consume, the economy tanks.

          • foundingprinciples

            “The main reason we are not more heavily Socialist is the rich own our press, our government, and almost literally our skin.”

            No. Read those classic books – written by Liberals themselves – and start understanding. Grow up.

          • Russell Byrd

            What I said is still true. Ahem. Now you say Liberals. I am not a little nit-picker like you, but you deserve me pointing out that you cannot seem to stay on your own topic. As off topic as it is.

            No Liberal has ever said the things you have claimed in your earlier posts. Maybe, by certain, more hard line Socialists, but not Liberals. Get your sh*t straight, cretin.

          • idamag

            We aren’t even a Capitalism any more. We have become an oligarchy where big corporations rule the government. And those multi national corporations have destroyed capitalism.

          • foundingprinciples

            Destroyed the FREE MARKET. And your answer is more government with filthy socialism.

          • Russell Byrd

            That “classic” is just some right-wing fluff without a basis in fact. Very right-wacked, very self-serving.

          • foundingprinciples

            Check out the quotes. They are from the Socialists themselves, from their own works. You are wrong.

          • Russell Byrd

            Quotes are your selection from those you claim to be Socialists. Unfortunately, you have NEVER defined what a Socialist actually is nor what they believe in. You have just selectively attacked using very selective and often misconstrued evidence. Sorry, but no go, Koch whore.

          • foundingprinciples

            “Claim?” They were writers for the main socialist magazine!

          • Russell Byrd

            So they write for a socialist magazine. As I have said, a hybrid society is superior. Not your Capitalist “fleece the public model.”

          • foundingprinciples

            I explained the problem. You are a brain-washed dolt. I will bet that you got out of college recently and don’t have a job or have one you do not like at all, not in your “field.” How am I doing?

          • Russell Byrd

            So how are you doing? You are still batting zero. Like I said, you are pretty stupid.

            I am sixty, Koch whore. It is a shame that you are so stupidly bigoted. You trip over your own argument, while talking out of both sides of your mouth and out your ass.

            I work a forty hour week now. I use to work up to 100 hours a week. For years, I worked seven days a week. I have a masters degree and have worked as a Geo-Economist. I am a Geographer and an trained Historian.

            Your anti-education views and your bigoted, racist, ignorance must be purged if this nation is to survive. Make what you will of that.

            SO, let me say, you struck out on all points. Again, you just “assume” that every mature person is a bigot and their brains have ceased to function. My brain is still in top condition.

          • foundingprinciples

            Well, if you do not know who my avatar is – and most other people on these threads do know – you have no understanding of economics, of course.

            You are a knee-JERK leftist, and it shows with your ignorant statement: You are now calling me a racist. The topic is socialism, and you scream “racist.” That proves beyond any doubt that you are a dolt who spouts what he has been told to spout. You only scream that socialism is good and capitalism is evil and have demonstrated no understanding. Heck, you do not even understand what you purport to understand. You are now asserting that “mature” people should like socialism. What the f… is that? That is your defense of this malevolent cancer, that “mature” people supposedly advocate for this crap? That is it? Or that capitalism is evil and taking over? What a lightweight you are.

            I tire of you. I tried to see if something was there, but there is nothing there. Bye.

          • Russell Byrd

            Actually, knee jerk Koch whore, I already answered your question.

            Older people are often fearful and much less tolerant. They also are often at the end of their faculties. The fact that you can scare them into following your filthy ideas is not exactly an argument clincher. In fact, it very well proves my point.

            As for light weight, at least I can, and do, read my opponents posts. I do not jump on them for making a qualified comment. Especially, when it is one small comment in an entire thread of comments.

            I only go to war with the liars and bullies. I have been 100% successful at it. In your idiocy, you made the mistake of jumping on the wrong gu.

          • Russell Byrd

            Well, chickenshit, you must have been looking in a mirror. Keep whoring for Koch.

            Really, I gave you a sound argument. You did not want to discuss, but just to dictate. All because you took a major exception to what for me is a minor distraction in my total philosophy. All i have said is about one percent of the total argument, but like a Republiturd sloganistas, you have to make a major issue out of a word that you have declared evil.

            So go take your floundering_in_shit_lack_of_principles and shove it up where the sun never shines. . . .

            You baby-fied sendoff impresses not one bit!

          • Russell Byrd

            I have already told you twice and I know by evidence that you read at least one of those posts. Most people on these threads do not know who your avatar is. Anyway, I think Friedman would be ashamed.

            As for econ, knowing a self-loathing delusional closet queens avatar is not a prerequisite for knowledge in that area. Only an idiot would think so.

            Why bother to leave. You never really brought anything but hard headed sass. There is nothing to take away. . . .

          • idamag

            An avatar is just an alter ego. It doesn’t mean you are as smart as you think you are.

          • foundingprinciples

            I have no claims to be smart. I only present the truth.

          • idamag

            At least he went to college. I can’t believe you are a high school graduate. Or, it could be you went to school in one of those poor states that don’t have good education.

          • plc97477

            That seems more and more likely every time he opens his mouth.

          • Russell Byrd

            How long have you been an operative for the far-right wackjobs?

          • foundingprinciples

            You are pathetic. Don’t even know the history you profess to know. Don’t even know why America did not turn to Socialism.

          • Russell Byrd

            You have already said that before and failed. Your set mouthpieces spout the rhetoric that was paid for by their masters. Who has more veracity, a paid whore like yourself, or someone like myself that is totally disinterested in anything but the truth.

            Answer if you must, but we both should be smart enough to know that your answer will be a stupid one.

          • idamag

            Study Norway. Study England for that matter.

          • foundingprinciples

            You do not understand Socialism at all, or you would know that in many ways, Norway is not as socialist as the anti-capitalist, anti-American Left-wingers would like, but that is an entire other issue.

            You obviously do not know why Socialism did not take root in America. It apogee was in the first two decades of the 20th century. After the First World War, it went downhill and never really regained. However, the Leftist Socialist had hopes during the Great Depression to model us after their dreamland, the Soviet Union. Then, during the Vietnam War, the socialists hoped for Communist Revolution. Now, these haters hope for a socialist nation by taking advantage of the suffering of Americans during our recession.

            Socialist prey on the suffering and fears of people. They appeal to the most base instincts and will do anything to achieve their tyranny over our lives. Socialism is an abhorrent cancer that eats away if it invades the body, rotting it and eventually killing it.

          • idamag

            You are definitely not learned person and I do not believe you read the two books I mentioned. With your poor comprehension skills they would not be what you would read. There are many countries that have social programs (hence socialistic) and those include government led retirement programs. If you were as smart as you try to make people believe, you would know that Communism and Socialism are not the same thing. And, yes, Norway has been listed as the most socialistic country. Communism is when the country works for the state and the party comes first. Democracy is government of the people. Socialism is when the government provides programs for the good of the people. The Soviet Union was not a socialistic country.they were a Communist country. And as for your quotations from Hitler, Here is one he made in 1929: “Socialism is an unfortunate word, altogether, and I regret having integrated the word, ‘socialism’ into the nazi party name.”

          • foundingprinciples

            I read both of those years ago. I did not read every page of Hitler’s book, the one he wrote while in prison, but over half of it. It is interesting that when someone disagrees with a Left-winger, the Liberal soon screams “LIAR!” Consistent pattern with Leftists. It really shows laziness and a lack of intellectual discipline: It is easy to dismiss someone’s statements as lies, of course.

            Having social programs do not make a country socialist. I already defined the relation of Socialism to Communism, and your hero, Karl also did. Hey, speaking of who reads what, have you read the Manifesto? Do a quick book search and check how often, and in what context, the terms “socialism” and “communism” and their variants (socialist, etc.) appear in your hero’s book. You will see that they are about the same and almost interchangeable. I have cited the writing of Socialists who speak to the interconnection between the two evils. (They, like you, do not think that they are “evil,” of course.)

            But we have to remember something: Because the dream of the Left-wingers did not come true, because the actions of their darlings and heroes – Stalin, then Mao, then Pol Pot, etc. – came to light (after the Leftists in America denied the savagery for years), Communism got to have a bad name. Leftists will deny, deny, deny that they have any connection to communism, but that is a patent LIE. Their entire history is filled with Marxism and Communism! You can verify this with ANY good history of the Left, even those written by Left-wingers themselves!

          • idamag

            I hope you are honest enough not to accept anything that is socialist. Or are you just mouth? I hope you don’t accept Social Security, Medicare, or government provided police and fire departments. I hope none of your income has ever come from a government contract. I hope you pay for your own roads, sidewalks, and bridges. BTW, Norway is the most socialist country in the world. They have no unemployment and no poverty. They don’t hope their senior citizens will commit suicide when they get too old to work. They don’t want to euthanize anyone born with a handicap. They risked their lives to keep the nazis from getting the heavy water they needed to make an atomic bomb. They risked their lives to protect their Jewish population.

          • foundingprinciples

            Socialism is controlling, managing, owning the means of production, directly or indirectly.

            Social security, as presented by the government, is a forced savings account and nothing more. People pay into it, and they have to or they will go to prison or have their property confiscated.

            SS is not really socialism, of course; anyone who really understands what socialism is knows that, but let’s go beyond that: If I had an option of paying into it or not, I would opt out. I pay because I do not want to be put into prison.

            It is inane to claim that the police are a form a socialist policy. Only a dolt would think that.

            The dolts and deceivers will try to claim that ANYTHING that the government pays for is socialist, and that is as stupid as it gets. That would mean that if at a town meeting, they decided to use town taxes for cleaning up street garbage, it is socialist. That our state and federal courts are socialist. That even a family sharing their house and buying things for everyone to use (the television) are socialists. Heck, according to that stupid criteria, I cannot buy my wife an ice cream without being considered a socialist.

          • Russell Byrd

            So you know something about Attlee and the Labour Party. Whoopee PAL. What does that have to do with anything
            in this tread. As well, you miss the point that what is in their
            charter has nothing to do with this conversation at all, PAL. This has nothing to do with Marxism, it is about common decency and common sense. No one wants the end of free trade or free enterprise, but what we have is an evil charade. We have always let theanimals rule, and made the humans tow their line. Your kind always destroys what is not paying you, PAL.

            Thanks for at least telling a partial truth. I will use it here. ” . . . if they have their chance, and they will play on the fears, weaknesses and envy of the populace, the filthy” . . . capitalists will continue to buy our elections and our politicians, and “will do it again,” and again. Thank you for being so concise. See how ideas can cohere when you place them in the proper context.

          • foundingprinciples

            Prime Minister Attlee has EVERYTHING to do with it, pal. Everything. It points out the true nature of your pernicious, hateful, abominable, evil dogma. Its origins are anathema to liberty and the Founding principles of our country. Go to freakin’ North Korea, get a one-way ticket, buddy.

          • Russell Byrd

            None of your shit has anything to do with anything. You cherry-picked a post to start an unnecessary war.

            The analysis of Attlee is in your own putrid little mind. There are several other views that I am aware of. None of those, however, have anything to do with what I was relating. Just because you are on a flaming crusade over your evil little greed games, is entirely your own problem.

            Your a crypto-Fascist that would fit in well in N. Korea. We already know your ethics are for sale.

            Rest assured, in any case, your hate of your fellow man, greed, and untruthfulness will get you a one-way ticket to somewhere a lot warmer.

          • Russell Byrd

            Can’t read, can we? At best, you only selectively read what you want to. So, you want to argue with one and a half of my points. I never said we were going to have a Socialist Democracy, but a true one would be ideal. In your view, the fact that we are never going to attain complete social justice, means we should not pursue it at When we actually do what is in “our own best interests,” then your type will be shaking in their shoes.

          • foundingprinciples

            A true Socialist Democracy would be a nightmare, an end to our civilization, man’s “last great hope” as we know it.

            “Social justice?” That is the OPPOSITE of justice, but a typical clarion call of the Socialist ideologue. Social justice is destroying TRUE justice which judges INDIVIDUALS. Social justice is for groups and GOES TOTALLY AGAINST RULE OF LAW. It twists the law to achieve the specific outcomes for the selected groups, the so-called “oppressed” groups, determined by “experts” under your freakin’ Socialist tyranny. It HAS TO take rights and property from other groups to achieve this perverted “social justice.” You and your confreres would destroy our heritage, our Constitution.

          • Russell Byrd

            You do not even know what you are talking about. You are the purest of evil. You start an argument over a small point. Then twist the conversation until you have a full scale war going. Your just a lying, malevolent, evil, little gnome.

            SOCIAL JUSTICE IS THE ONLY PURPOSE OF THE LAW. The law is to keep scum like you from abusing the “group.” The law is not something that you have an exemption from because you are a member of the master race. Only criminals think otherwise.

            I base my views on the Constitution. Not on your corruption of it.

            You are nothing but a crypto-National Socialist that thinks slogans are sensible. Just another anal-retentive (fact) troll that is in love with the misery you can cause. You are a sloganista that can always justify your evil view of the world by denigrating every thing around you.

          • foundingprinciples

            {SOCIAL JUSTICE IS THE ONLY PURPOSE OF THE LAW.}

            It is not. Adding the “social” to it means that one is referring to “group” justice, and it ain’t justice at all. Group justice requires taking rights and property away from one group and giving them to another.

            Your views are against the Constitution.

          • Russell Byrd

            SOCIAL JUSTICE IS THE ONLY PURPOSE OF THE LAW.

            Your views are against the Constitution.

          • foundingprinciples

            Nope. Social justice is against Rule of Law. You do not even understand what that means.

          • Russell Byrd

            SOCIAL JUSTICE IS THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW.

            Your views are completely against the Constitution.

          • foundingprinciples

            Nope. Social justice is group justice, and it overrides constitutionality. It destroys what you cannot understand and have shown absolutely no understanding, only childish screaming: Rule of Law.

          • Russell Byrd

            You just made no sense. Thank you, Koch whore. You need to unmix a few things.

            How long have they been paying you to do this? They are not getting any value from you.

          • idamag

            Russel, I don’t think you are talking to someone who has comprehension skills. Anyone who decides not to accept a duly elected president and who tries to destroy something that was passed by a 2/3 majority does not understand the Constitution nor Democracy.

          • Russell Byrd

            You are definitely right there. He made fun of me because I could not name his avatar. Like that is the secret to world peace or something. I gave him rather more information about myself than I think prudent, but I wanted him to get the idea that I did not care how smart he thought he was. I hate bragging with a passion, but I occasionally like to deride the mental midgets with the fact that I am likely smarter and better educated than they can even dream of.

            Anyway, I named his avatar in three separate posts, and informed him that I had done so in three more posts. At last discussion, he is still going on about it. If it was taxpecker, for instance, I would think nothing of it, and just turn up the abuse, but I really think this nutter is completely serious.

            However, the point is flounderingsimpleton does not even read his own posts.

          • Russell Byrd

            I forgot to add that his avatar is Milton Friedman. As I told him, not my favorite economist. I lean towards Keynes, Friedman is very nearly the opposite. Of course, if you see my most oft quotes, you might detect that Galbraith is my favorite. Galbraith was FDR’s whiz kid on the New Deal. He just died in 2006, as did Friedman, I believe.

            And of course, I really like and respect Robert Reich. An A1 guy, that one. I know he is not perfect, but he is as close to my ideal as anyone I know of. I intend to watch his movie if it shows up near me.

            My opinion is most “real” economists these days, think they are hard scientists. I really mean the undergrads. They think you can manipulate the numbers and get answers to real life questions. The “trends” in the data speak all. People don’t matter. It is all about the GDP and the money one can generate. They are mostly glorified accountants looking for an opportunity to move up and make a good “capitalist” killing in the markets. Of course, not everyone is like that, especially on the graduate level.

            I on the other hand saw myself as a social scientist. Basically, as my first calling was as a Geographer, I saw my true purpose as trying to determine how the people, average citizens or otherwise, were living, what the future held, and how my data could relate to improving the human condition.

            Of course, in the last fifty years the training of Economists has
            changed from the Social Sciences to the School of Business, on every campus that I am familiar with. Admittedly, I do not know the actual percentage of schools that has happened in.

            And I hate excessive jargon. I suppose as a Geographer that never had a complete grasp of Econ terminology, I am a little prejudiced.

            Sorry to be so mouthy, but I guess I was in a “talking” mood.

          • idamag

            I would say you are against the Constitution.

          • Russell Byrd

            You are so right. He believes the Constitution only covers the “chosen.” We untermensch need not apply.

            Let me tell you a little story about angelsinca. Turns out it is a guy, either that or a real imbalanced gay fellow. “He” admitted that he had a wife. It always came on to me as a woman. I guess anal-lana is not the only one here with a sexual identity crisis.

            Anyway, angelsindirt told me that “it” would continue to post for days and weeks. I replied that was okay. Then about two posts later it writes that it has to go in a hurry. As a parting shot, angelsinhell jumps all over me about misreading one of his fouled up posts. He re-writes the whole thing for me right there.

            Well, here is the fun part. I make a lot of mistakes at times, but I am usually pretty accurate. So I go back to look at the original post. IT’S GONE. My replies are still there “swinging in the breeze.”

            He deleted his post and then denied doing it. Really, we are dealing with sick minds. These dumb bastards need to be locked up and watched for their own protection. They are all bonkers.

            I bet they are the kind that cheat at solitaire!

          • foundingprinciples

            Social justice is against our fundamental Rule of Law. If you want to rationally discuss it, I would like to do so. But if you are going to write insults and make childish “declarations,” there is little point, of course.

          • idamag

            He doesn’t make much sense.

          • Russell Byrd

            This critter is just a fight looking for a ring to hop into.

        • idamag

          The two nutjobs don’t believe in Democracy. A president was elected and never accepted. What is different about this president from all past presidents? The ACA was passed by a 2/3 majority and that cannot be accepted by the subverts. One of them made a statement about ebonics during the last presidential campaign. The other one has thrown out some ridiculous rhetoric.

      • foundingprinciples

        You are correct! Hitler was a Leftist.

        “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions”
        – Adolf Hitler

        • ObozoMustGo

          Founding… you are 100% correct. It’s actually nothing short of shocking to see how absolutely stupid these leftist freaks are. They call conservatives Nazis without ever a thought that Nazi is an acronym for National SOCIALIST Party while at the same time supporting socialism themselves. It doesn’t ocurr to them in their little pea brains that the DemonRAT party is the home of socialists in America. It’s jaw dropping that people could be so dumb. Yet, here they are typing comments for the world to see on full display how stupid they are.

          Thanks for the great quote. That one may have well come from the fetid pie hole of Obozo. I’ll reuse it the next time one of these idiots calls us Nazis.

          Have a great day, founding!

          “There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetuated under the shield of law and in the name of justice.” — Charles de Montesquieu

          • foundingprinciples

            The American people need to learn about the proclivities of the Liberals in our country.

        • idamag

          Hitler might have claimed to be a socialist, but he has gone down in history as a far right dictator. How did he destroy Germany’s democracy? He did it from within. You need to read the English version of “Mein Kamft” and “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.” Hitler wasn’t the only one who was determined to destroy a system under all conditions.

          • foundingprinciples

            Yes, Hitler did it from within, just as Liberals are doing. Leftists do it mainly through the courts with activist judges creating new rights that do not exist in our Constitution. The Liberals destroy the democratic process with the courts and the bureaucracies ruled by non-elected officials.

            I read both of those books. I like Toland’s the most, however.

    • idamag

      Excellent!

      • sleeprn01

        Good evening, Thanks hope you enjoyed it. Now for your reading pleasure, read this weeks “This Week in Crazy”. Now these guys are serious; I think?

  • sleeprn01

    To Obozo, I don’t think that President Obama is either Hitler or Stalin. They didn’t even give the man time to do anything and they were trying to sabotage his presidency. I think that President Obama is the 1st intellectual president we’ve had since Robert Kennedy. Oh, that’s right Robert Kennedy had his brains blown out by a right wing nut job and never made it to the presidency. At least President Obama supports the middle class workers, this is the first president since Reagan that has supported the middle class. And why would you not want health care for the millions of people who are without it? It is not government run, so it’s open the cash drawers for the big insurance companies, which from your posts should make you salivate like a dog with a steak. I am now hopeful that I can get health insurance, because every time an insurance company heard that I had diabetes they wouldn’t cover me at any cost. I have diabetes that was drug induced, not because I was fat and sat on my ass all day.
    However, you have once again given credance to Godwin’s Law

  • Cooky642

    I just wanted to thank all the posters below for a wonderful evening! I haven’t laughed so hard in years, especially over all the “opinions” that used all the Tea Party allegations against Ovomit to apply to the Tea Party! Ha, ha, ha! And you call US ‘rabid’! What fun!

  • MarySipes

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  • Lafollette

    Where do all these trained monkeys come from? And who taught them to type talking points?

  • mandinka

    All the republicans are asking for it Obama to agree to fix the broke law OR Implement as written. He can’t do both rewrite the law to his political satisfaction and deny the republicans the same opportunity to fix what’s broken. Trial lawyers milk the system for $400B a year and that has to end

  • idamag

    Mary Sipes and the work-at-home scheme is a scam operation – avoid it.

  • aquinas215

    Obama’s threats of default are hurting Americans. And he doesn’t seem to care.

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