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Wednesday, December 13, 2017

Article originally appeared on Creators.

Whenever someone commits a heinous gun crime like the massacre in Las Vegas, politicians swiftly assure us that the victims and their families are “in our thoughts and prayers.” What these mush-mouthed messages mean, in plain English, is that government, as embodied in those politicians, will do nothing to make the country safer from gun violence. Thoughts and prayers are all we’re going to get.

In fact, those same elected officials are almost always poised to rubber-stamp statutes that will make us less safe, such as Congressional Republicans’ upcoming proposals to deregulate silencers and expand concealed-carry rights. The Vegas shooter got nearly two dozen weapons into his hotel room at Mandalay Bay, but our brilliant legislators believe it’s still too difficult to transport weapons of mass murder.

And that killer in Vegas could have mowed down dozens more innocent people if only he could have put a suppressor on his weapon, preventing anyone from seeing the muzzle flash up on the 32nd floor.

So when they tell us that we are all in their “thoughts and prayers,” don’t mistake that grating cliche for genuine compassion. In thrall to the National Rifle Association, as so many legislators are, they are ensuring that more of us — and yes, our families — will suffer violent deaths. The NRA compensates them lavishly to betray us. The last time Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell ran for re-election, the gun lobby, which represents firearms manufacturers far more faithfully than ordinary gun owners, gave him almost a million dollars.

With 58 dead so far and hundreds wounded, the Vegas shooting is reportedly the worst in U.S. history, breaking the record set in 2016 at Orlando’s Pulse nightclub. This year alone, America has endured 273 incidents of mass shootings, adding to the list of thousands of slaughters over the past 10 years.

Such phenomenally destructive acts, even as they become more commonplace, shouldn’t make us forget the toll that daily gun violence inflicts on the innocent. Every year, more than 110,000 Americans are shot and more than 20,000 Americans kill themselves with a gun. Also, American women are far more likely to be killed with a gun than women in other advanced countries. (Undoubtedly, American children are more likely to kill themselves or their playmates with a loose gun, too.)

Yet so powerful is the dictatorship of the gun-makers and their servants in the NRA that anyone who dares to mention gun regulation, even in the aftermath of a bloodbath, is castigated for “politicizing” tragedy. In a democracy, this taboo amounts to moral idiocy, enforced even by the “liberal media.” The cable news and broadcast commentators praised Donald Trump’s meaningless statement about Las Vegas as “pitch perfect” precisely because he didn’t mention guns. Of course, Trump knows very well that the NRA spent millions on his election — so the “carnage” that they encourage is perfectly acceptable to him.

Except it is neither acceptable nor inevitable, as the dimmer media bulbs always suggest at these moments. The simple truth is that states with stronger gun regulation are safer than those without similar laws, even though gun traffickers can and do cross state lines. And states with weaker gun regulation — like Nevada, where certain kinds of machine guns are legal, where no permit is required to purchase a firearm, and where Republican Governor Brian Sandoval vetoed universal background checks — are considerably less safe. (Naturally, Sandoval offered his “prayers” for “the victims & all affected by this act of cowardice” in a cheap tweet.)

With murderous neo-Nazis, ISIS-inspired fanatics and assorted other lunatics at large, we need to make it far more difficult to obtain the semi-automatic weapons that can be converted into fully automated killing machines. Instead, as many law enforcement officials worry, our political paralysis enables terrorists of any stripe to acquire as many weapons as they want.

Someday, even the dullest commentators may understand that politicizing urgent public issues is essential to a democratic society. Someday, even the stupidest voters may come to realize that the proliferation of weapons doesn’t protect them or their families, but only increases the likelihood that a maniac will take the lives of their loved ones. And someday, even the most blind and venal politicians may stop tweeting out rote condolences, and take action to end the madness.

Before that day arrives, hundreds and thousands will surely die.

140 Responses to We Need More Than ‘Thoughts And Prayers’

  1. Thoughts and prayers are just a metaphor to hide the inconvenient truth that our elected officials, and the wealthy donors that support their campaigns, are not planning to do anything to end the slaughter that has become so common place in the USA. The need for a well disciplined militia has been morphed into a right to kill mantra, with anyone with a grievance, mental instability, or criminal intent, is able to acquire lethal weapons to carry out massacres like the ones we just saw in Las Vegas, the one at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Sandy Hook, and so many others, including daily shootings that are so commonplace that nobody seems to care. Have we lost our minds? Are we so consumed by hatred and fear that we are unwilling to admit that changes are needed to end the daily slaughters? Are some among us to greedy or power hungry that they are willing to ignore what is happening to make an extra buck or remain in power? Nobody with an ounce of common sense, or a sense of humanity can support or condone what is happening. And yet, I doubt a single Republican elected official will speak out about the need for stronger regulation to limit the sale of guns to people with mental illnesses, drug users, and anyone who may pose a threat to society. Thoughts and prayers are just a cop out for those too cowardly to do the right thing.

    • Another ripe irony: These Republican officials, who refuse to speak out about the need to act to curtail gun violence in this country, are the same ones trying to undermine the ability of all Americans be treated for injuries when they are shot. The greater suffering of Trump’s information-challenged constituency stands at the intersection of NRA and Repeal and Replace.

    • Now I hear Paul Ryan banging on about the importance of mental health care in confronting gun violence. Yet when they tried repeatedly to Repeal and Replace, Ryan led the charge in allowing insurers to refuse to provide mental health coverage by pulling back the mental health parity provisions of the ACA. Someone ought to point that out to him.

      • Paul Ryan needs to be castrated on the White House lawn. He is supporting the worst, most dangerous legislation yet. Silencers for assault weapons.

        Mind you, this Corn Pone and his Tea Party hicks know arming their mentally twisted bullies in open carry states means they are well protected from any piece of legislation they decide to use to overrule public demands.

        So you bet they want a well armed militia of their own who can silently kill thousands of protestors.

        • EW, I long ago (well, it SEEMS long ago) decided that Trump’s minions and Ryan’s Tea Partiers are effectively out of reach as far as logic is concerned.

          I think today is certainly a day for serious thoughts about a solution, no matter what the soft-heads in Trump’s media crew want to do to postpone it. All good ideas are fair game.

          I found myself hoping that with over five hundred affected by this shooting in Las Vegas, there might be a large enough group of survivors to form the kind of coalition that could disrupt Washington, like the disability advocates whose brave demonstrations played such a large part in stopping Republicans from repealing the ACA.

        • Please learn a bit about firearms before sharing your ignorance to the world.
          They are called suppressors, and only reduce the sound level by a few decibels. It is not like the things you see in “James Bond” movies.

      • I think it is important to remember that talk about mental health, and acts of heroism, follow every tragedy in the USA, with little or nothing done. In fact, as you pointed out, the dichotomy between what people like Ryan are now saying, and what would have been the effect of their Repeal and Replace proposals, had they been implemented, is inescapable. Sadly, what is obvious to the most casual observer is bound to be ignored by those whose support for Trump, and what he represents, is as strong as ever. The meaning of hypocrisy needs to be expanded when it comes to Republican rhetoric. Another angle to explain the dichotomy between what they say and what they do or propose is the fact that all the talk about mental illness is an effort to divert attention from the ready ability to lethal weapons to anyone interested in buying…and using them.

        • Interesting how the media have been complicit with the agenda to draw attention away from the problem–gun violence–covering first the tragedy and now the background on victims and survivors, morphing into tales of heroism among first responders. It is at times like this that we must recall that even our media outlets are all controlled by Big Money.

  2. 42 guns at a conservative cost of $400 apiece = $16,800, means that the gun makers and sellers made a tidy little profit off this catastrophe. Add to that the cost of all the ammunition he had stored and used, ammo makers did nicely as well.
    The blood of all those killed and injured in this god awful episode is spattered on a lot of hands.

  3. The gun lobby in general, and the NRA in particular, along with their supporters in the Congress, are the most dangerous terrorists in the USA today, and possibly the world. They have no conscience other than their own pocketbooks. If everyone who owns a gun in this country were obligated to join and serve in a militia, a lot of this nonsense would stop.

  4. Among the other problems of the NRA, they no longer consider the Rank-and-File as capable of electing their leadership. They are now run by a board of directors in a similar manner to other corporations, where they are more concerned with the needs of the big dollar contributors (i.e. the Gun Manufacturers), than with the rank and file membership. Also, their corporate board has done everything but say people of color are not welcome as members, making it look like only white people are considered legitimate firearms owners.
    This, among other reasons is why I have not been a member since the Reagan Administration.

    • We have members of Congress who have sold their souls for campaign donations and whatever else they are getting under the table.

      • The reality of what the Republican Party has done since Reagan is that they ONLY invest in corporations they know are bound to keep power in their states. This is why they lead the country in prisons, defense facilities, Big Insurance, Credit and Collections and polluter industries like coal mining, fracking and oil.

  5. As long as there is money to be made, those who pull the strings will continue to feed the fears of their consumer base. I wonder how much the gun sales will increase this time.

    • Right. For decades, they have inundated the people with fear. Fear doesn’t feel good, so it becomes hate. I remember when it was “Communists.” My children were taught to hide under their desks in case of an atom bomb attack. There are people who benefit from these fears. The NRA has sold millions of guns with their “home invasion” crap. We are so afraid we build fences and have travel bans and have fenced the monsters in with us.

  6. Amen to the by now hollow and useless gesture of “the families and victims are in our prayers”, or the perfunctory “Moment of silence”.
    By now everyone conditioned to see Congress’ GOP wing of an ingenuous gesture of being concerned as being worthless and the GOP’s robotic nature and lack of sincerity. The Right Wing elements in America—most of them—have more faith in the NRA than they do in Jesus. Jesus, and God’s expectation of humanity are meaningless to the Right Wing—they would rather bow down to the NRA and other influential deep pockets. The 2nd Amendment long ago had supplanted the Message of Jesus as the go-to doctrine to define their place in the universe, and Congress’ other primary point of adoration is “Staying in Political Power”.
    And our system of governance, based on a flawed foundation of partisan divisiveness will only keep the idol worship of the two false gods of “Gun Ownership” and “Re-election” safely and securely perched on the pedestals

    • The 2nd amendment is not a right it is a curse. We are the only country on the planet with this problem and are too stupid to fix it.

      • The second amendment like the first is always a mechanism of abuse for those with twisted minds. Look at how the First Amendment is abused. It isn’t okay to peaceably protest but it is okay to parade in public streets shouting Neo Nazis slurs.

        The 2nd Amendment was NEVER intended to allow ANY man to bear military arms in public places. This is how these jerkoffs of the NRA love to make that sound.

        They always ignore the words, “a WELL REGULATED MILITIA” and hope you won’t read the rest of the Constitution on who pays for that well regulated militia…not the private gun owner…we the taxpayers. Then, they ignore the other parts of the Constitution that elucidates WHEN that militia may be call to protect the country and by whom. They are not called up by their own voices nor are they allowed to pronounce themselves a militia without state or federal approval.

        Consider why Dodge City was THE most murderous town in the Wild Wild West…no gun laws. Shoot first, ask questions later. Just as this murderer did in Las Vegas.

        When men resort to using an assault weapon as a symbol of what’s in their jeans, maybe what’s in their jeans needs to be lopped off.

        • You have some of the most twisted logic I’ve read in a long time. Very interesting. You are also a racist, like our former president was.

          • You know people who say “you are …a racist” almost ALWAYS are racist themselves!
            Glad you let us know your racial animus, it lets us ignore your opinion.

          • You obviously don’t know the meaning of “racist”, nor how to use the word properly. Rather than further embarrass yourself, try observing silence for a change, and learn to be a mature man rather than prefer being a blithering junior high male.

          • I am curious as to why Eleanore is not able to respond to me, but somehow you feel the need to do so. Once again, with the typical junior high insults that seem to be common amongst the uneducated Liberal crowd.

          • If you’re worried about who responds to you and who doesn’t, I have a suggestion for you. This may come as a shock to you, but you can always look for some other forum where knuckleheads like to post nonsense. You’ll get plenty of kudos there.
            Are all Russian trolls as deficient in spiritual substance as you? Do they all have nothing better to do in lives wasted by posting crap, and never getting a return on such impotent efforts?
            Is life under Putin that damaging to the souls of trolls to the point that they’ve been transformed into bipedal beasts?

      • If you didn’t have the 2nd amendment you would not have a country. Can you tell Isis to put down their guns for me? That would be nice

        • BS. Do you own a musket? Gun powder? That 2nd Amendment has NEVER stated that YOU are allowed to buy an AK47 and carry it onto public streets to show ass.

          ISIS is white US males. That is where their recruits come from. Do your homework for a change.

          ISIS, thanks to Obama, has been seriously defanged. However, ISIS has such widespread use of covert recruiting.

          If you and your white male bullies keep up your BS, ISIS won’t even bother to terrorize the US. You’ll do it ALL for us.

        • You’re making the oligarchs of Russia cringe knowing a troll is displaying such stupidity and casting a darker shadow over Putin and his coterie of knaves.
          You may have to answer of this, Boris Badonov.

      • Try fixing the DUI problem. More people die every day from alcohol related traffic fatalities than from firearms, but I have yet to see our Country institute Prohibition again

          • Based on your comment, I think not.
            ALL you Liberals do is offer insults after insults, but never any constructive dialogue. Like talking with Kindergarteners.

          • Your lame attempt to put this in terms of politics shows you’re just a shell of a human being. Being a tool for political entities hell-bent on creating further divisions in society is pure evil, as Donald likes to say, not knowing he’s motivated by evil impulses himself.

          • Actually ALL we do here is offer facts, links, evidence and constructive argument… UNTIL a slimeball spouting standard right wing talking points turns up, full of willful ignorance.
            THEN we still counter your points, with rebuttal and further evidence… but for my part, you also get abuse.
            Why?
            Because you and your deplorable friends dodge rebuttal.
            You’re not here to talk about things, or learn things… you’re here to spout the pre-set cr@p you’ve been fed, and get all defensive once it’s challenged with actual facts.

            Once the actual counterpoints are raised to your drivel, you never bother coming back with further facts to uphold your original point…
            Instead you deny, you whine, you cry, you insult… but you don’t dare answer the arguments presented to you.

            That’s why you and all your idiot parrot friends are insulted on here (at least by me)… because you’ve shown you’re too stupid, too lazy or too well paid to bother interacting like intelligent adults.

            As evidence, review the many times I’ve answered you above…
            with actual counterpoints and facts and links… what did you do? Insult, Deny, then run like a little B!tch.

            I rest my case.

        • First, for the record, your facts are wrong – more people are killed by guns. Actually people are constantly trying to fix the DUI problem. Fatalities from DUI’s have dropped dramatically over the last several decades. We have DUI stops, they have lowered the BAC levels, increased punishment, increased awareness etc. What have they done to curb the gun crisis -NOTHING! In fact they are trying to pass laws to make it WORSE!!!. Welcome to the land of the idiots with politicians that are bought and paid for.

  7. It is so trite to offer prayers to people who are hurting because they lost loves ones. I consider it lazy and insensitive. That is what is wrong with a lot of religions. Instead of exerting themselves to take action against injustice and danger to the people, they pray. After all,this world is just a stopping place they have no real interest in. They are only living to get their reward in heaven.

  8. Trump had the nerve to call the tragedy “pure evil”. Coming from anyone else this would be appropriate, but Donald is in no position, morally and ethically, to make such a comment. Trump and his favorite media program, FOX, are indirectly responsible for this tragedy, as are so many others to a lesser degree. But the NRA is the major culprit by reason of thus perfidious entity having usurped the authority of Religion by dictating the terms and conditions of what it means to be a human being. Congress bows down to this false god, the NRA, and the false gospel called “The 2nd Amendment”.
    The aura of power and mystique which Americans have bestowed on the 2nd Amendment has an hypnotic spell on such large numbers of America’s “white” citizens.

    • The more I read your writings the more convinced I am that you are totally stupid. Our President did not pull the trigger that killed so many innocent people. I am a white man and have worked hard all my life. Is it the white doing all the killings in Chicago? I think that is blacks killing black. Obama had 8yrs to help the blacks but he only helped himself.

      • Your president has a TRIGGER mouth. What the hell do you call him chanting with his supporters, “Lock her up!” What do you call him holding up a picture of HIllary’s bloody head before his nutbaggers?

        Yes. The white men like you are the ones doing ALL the masscres. Who killed those kids in Newtown?

        At this rate, your low life white males will be taking out more innocent people than any gunman in Chicago. But do keep up your lies, smears and exaggerations.

        Here in NJ, we locked up 6 gun smuggler from Hick GA and NC in the last year. We do not need or want your guns in our inner cities.

        WE know why you Trump ass kissers love him. He represents everything lawless bums like you love.

        We are also not unaware of why those cheap Saturday night specials are smuggled into our inner cities where your hick bums know there are young minority kids ready to “pack heat.” That’s your racist bastard way of “culling those herds” you white bigots hate.

        No need for you to defend. There is NO defense for 59 innocent people dead. No defense for the murders at VA Tech, Newtown or the white male McVeigh who showed ass like all white males of your breed seem to love to do.

      • Johnny,
        Have you heard the saying, “Better to remain quiet and appear a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt?” You should try it sometime.

      • Your willingness to primarily identify yourself as a “white man” shows you’ve lost all ability to connect with a humanity that deserted you long ago. At this stage you’re 6 feet under in the grave of “Whiteness”, with little chance of climbing out of your self-made crypt.

        If it’s a dead-end in life you’re striving for, congratulations! You’ve achieved your goal!! And give regards to the “Satan” within yourself.

    • So true. But they change teir tune when it is a group of non whites walking down the street. The 2nd amendment suddenly disappears.

  9. The one thing we are seeing more and more often today is denial. All the right wing thinks they have to do to win any argument is deny anything they know is truth and fact. So when they pretend this last gun massacre is pure evil in one breath, ask them if Paddock should have had that arsenal of 40 guns in the first place?

    Think about what this murdering jerk did. He took great pains to figure out how to sneak past metal detectors with his guns. There were 17 of the 41 he owned in that room he rented. Now, consider. He was allowed in that room as a high roller “professional gambler” as he told many people. So, where could he have hidden that many guns without cleaning or maid staff reporting him?

    Then, he took the trouble to take ammonium chloride with him just in case he couldn ‘t murder every patron of that concert.

    This was so premeditated that not even the NRA can find an excuse for such premeditated murder.

    No. He wasn’t mentally ill. His own brothers stated that. He had a girlfriend. So it was a horrific act of vengeance for female rejection.

    Count on it. 59 innocent people shot to death with the kind of weapon NO MAN needs to own unless he is in the military or part of special ops SWAT teams.

    We may at the moment all feel shock, awe, disgust and depression over this. But count on it, the NRA, the Republican gun boys do not care.

    Right now the Republicans are trying to pass a bill that would legalize silencers for assault weapons. Great. Just what you want. Another big balls male with an assault weapon with silencer attached who can shoot without the bullets being heard until 1,000 patrons in public are next.

    Some men get their jollies with the rush of power knowing they hold in their hands the means to control the live of hundreds. But these cowards always end up doing themselves in rather than face their punishment. That’s like the bully who does his dirty work and makes his escape before anyone can nab him for punishment.

    • Yes, it was a horrible slaughter and America should wake up before it happens again, but . . . . . Are you on or off your drugs, again?

      “No. He wasn’t mentally ill. His own brothers stated that. He had a girlfriend. So it was a horrific act of vengeance for female rejection.”

      So evidently, for Liberals, a brother that hasn’t seen his brother for years says he wasn’t mentally ill, so, this proves he wasn’t mentally deranged . . . . are you lucid?

      You may not have heard of (locked) closets, but they are a great place to hide things, especially if its still in the baggage the hardware was originally in.

      The error was made by the FBI as they “enabled” him to purchase all the weapons; i.e., he should have been registered as a gun dealer or collector to own this many guns at one time, or it should have raised a flag for an investigation.

      https://thinkprogress.org/exclusive-the-fbi-allowed-over-300-000-gun-purchases-last-year-before-completing-a-background-9d380d53aa1d/

      As for denial . . . . Chicago has about 500 shooting deaths so far this year. Why aren’t Liberals upset about that . . . oh, guess its because Mayor Rahm is a Democrat?

      http://heyjackass.com/

      As for “metal detectors”, he didn’t fly in, he drove and hotels don’t have metal detectors, yet.

      https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-massacre-will-force-hotels-to-rethink-security/

      It would be nice for everyone to wait until the investigations were complete and the FACTS are known.

      • Can you get off your gun addiction gun Addict? YOu bet I am pissed. YOu obviously are thrilled that 59 Americans patronizing a concert were shot by one just like you.

        It is time to take down men like you. You are not mentally fit to be part of a peaceful society. All men like you live for is blood, guts and gore.

        Is that because YOUR DADDY was a bully? Because your Daddy also showed ass in public with his guns? How many times did your Daddy threaten your Mommy’s life with his guns?

        Don’t tell me this doesn’t happen. I have a friend in Michigan whose own mother was shot to death by a bully just like your Daddy and you.

        • Since I’ve blocked Rich can you convey to him that I’m sorry he missed going to the concert in Vegas on Sunday ? Same goes for Johnny Five

        • You need to stop your hatred. No reasonable individual would agree with what the idiot did in Vegas. He had ILLEGAL firearms. Get it, Liberal? The NRA does NOT promote nor advocate any of this criminal’s actions or choices.

          • Spot On!

            This blog is so full of hatred and lies that Google should audit it for its un-American, irrational and illogical rants.

            I follow Conservative blogs fairly often and rarely, if ever, see such hatred, bile and four letter words . . . all seemingly used to deflect from Reality.

          • Thanks for your kind reply. Nice to see a rational post.
            I really don’t know why I even bother coming onto this site. As you can see, ALL it contains is hatred, lies, and total lack of substance. I have yet to ever really engage in any meaningful dialogue.

          • The reason I first went to this blog, was to see what those on the Left think about current issues that affect everyone.

            This blog, I think, is a microcosm of how the irrational and illogical Left thinks and “speaks”.

            Many, on this blog, simply ignore FACTS and make up things, seemingly, on the fly to “validate” their thoughts and assumptions.

            Now I know why we have such a political and social mess in America 🙂

      • So the hotel owner is a liar? Do you never learn to stop defending the indefensible? Shows how low on the totem you are.

        When was the last time Lard Ass appeared in public with an assault weapon? Oh right. He has taxpayers paying for his army of Secret Service.

        • You may have a factoid I have not read nor heard. Can you point out (url) where the hotel owner statements can be verified.?

          The President, as all in Congress and many “selected” government employees have armed guards which, of course, taxpayers pay for, but, this is a necessity in the world of crazy’s we live in.

          • Homey, this game you play, intent on obfuscation by posting crap to defend atrocities, is a futile exercise you feel compelled to engage in. You waste what precious little time remains of what appears to be the sentiments of a lonely little man who has no clue as to the reason for his being called into existence.

            Do you think you were created simply to be a dick with the goal of interrupting America’s progress towards a goal to play a key role in uniting all humanity, as outlined by both Baha’u’llah and the Bab, elaborated on by numerous talks in America by Abdu’l Baha during his coast-to-coast journey in 1912, and expatiated on in other ways by Shoghi Effendi?

            Are you conscious and aware of any of what I’m relating to you? Do you care at all about exploring your purpose for existence?

            I’m sure you’re wondering why I’m saying all this to you, and wondering whether you should ignore my warning and advice to you. I would think twice before discounting out of hand all I’m relating to you. If you check out further your purpose for existence, and apprehend such, you will thank me at some point. Or you’ll wind up rueing the decision to ignore what I’m telling you.

            ===============================================
            “Humanity, the Bahá’í writings explain, has passed through the stage of childhood and now stands at the threshold of its collective maturity. The revolutionary and far-reaching changes occurring today are characteristic of this period of transition—a time which can be likened to adolescence. In this period, thoughts, attitudes, and habits from humanity’s earlier stages of development are being swept away and new patterns of thought and action which reflect its approaching maturity are gradually taking root. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá explains: “That which was applicable to human needs during the early history of the race can neither meet nor satisfy the demands of this day, this period of newness and consummation.” He continues: “Man must now become imbued with new virtues and powers, new moral standards, new capacities…The gifts and blessings of the period of youth, although timely and sufficient during the adolescence of mankind, are now incapable of meeting the requirements of its maturity.”

            The hallmark of this approaching age of maturity is the unification of the human race. Shoghi Effendi writes that, while unity “of family, of tribe, of city-state, and nation have been successively attempted and fully established” world-encompassing unity is “the goal towards which a harassed humanity is striving.”
            ================================================
            http://www.bahai.org/beliefs/god-his-creation/ever-advancing-civilization/

    • I’m just sorry some of these republican legislators that want silencers on these weapons to have missed the Vegas concert on Sunday. They need an education and wake up experience to the horrors people go thru daily

        • And you do know what your talking about ? What I do know is for no inexplicable reason someone who should be enjoying a comfortable retirement takes it upon himself to mow down over 500 concertgoers leaving 59 Dead and an additional 530 hospitalized some who may not make it. People are both scared and mad that so many people are stressing over their Second Amendment more than the loss of life over and over every single day. Don’t tell me but tell the 59 grieving families why it’s more important to keep guns in people’s hands who should not be near a gun. Would you want a convicted sex offender or rapist living in your neighborhood ? If you have a family I’m sure you’d like to see them live elsewhere. We simply want common sense laws because if we don’t get them you could see your worst nightmare come to pass and lose a loved one to gun violence

          • Dan, I totally am for gun laws that are common sense, but we already have them. Most shootings occur with weapons that are either illegally obtained, or not legal to own, by people who do not qualify to own firearms.
            In the case of the Vegas shooter, we still do not know all the facts. There are too many discrepancies in the story, as well as how was he able to get that many guns and ammo into a hotel room and not have it noticed?
            As a rule, full auto weapons are not sold to the public, but that doesn’t mean they cannot be obtained illegally. The idea of getting a conversion kit for your AR is somewhat of a myth. You would have to be one heck of a gunsmith to come close to making it full auto. But, enough of that stuff. So, what can we really do to stop these senseless tragedies?
            The CDC and FBI still report that more people die from DUI’s every 24hrs, than from gun violence.
            And the states with the lowest crime rates allow citizens to responsibly carry concealed handguns. So, where do we go?

          • Actually, by law, the CDC and FBI cannot compile data on gun deaths. The data is more anecdotal than scientific.

          • As usual a right wing mental midget denies reality. Yes they compile some data but it is only voluntary data. Each police or investigative agency decides which and how much to share. Not conducive to a true accounting or compilation. It is selective information not definitive. It is ike counting only the Oreos in the cookie section.

          • Not denying reality, and please stop with the insults.
            To suggest that there are no reliable stats that exist, then why even concern yourself with gun violence issues at all?
            After all, now there are apparently no valid numbers of deaths reported. As spoken by you.

          • Typical…

            No counterpoint.
            No facts.
            No links.
            No actual argument.

            Just pointless, d!ckless denial apropos of nothing, coupled with the deplorable’s final redoubt of personal attacks.

            Congratulations, “Joe”.
            You’re a perfect example of a sad, willfully ignorant Trumptard.

          • That is so much bullsh!t.
            It’s the usual “we can’t stop people getting guns, so lets not do anything at all.” FFS.

            This occurred in Nevada. Where it is legal to buy as many long weapons that can be scoped, made fully automatic, mounted on a tripod, and used as an effective weapon of mass murder as you wish. I believe it’s also legal to buy as much ammunition as you wish.

            If you think that is common sense after this particular tragedy, then you have no concept of “sense”.

            The mishmash of garbage rules in most states, especially around weapons that are mainly for the purpose of killing people (not animals) and making small-dicked men feel good about themselves, is pathetic and, more importantly, allows these exact scenarios to occur.

            Can a really determined person still get their hands on a military style rifle capable of being upgraded to fully automatic in countries where the politician’s haven’t prostituted themselves to the gun lobby?
            Sure… but it’s REALLY hard, REALLY expensive, and every person involved in the chain is running massive risks to supply it.

            Compare that to Nevada:
            Walk in to a f**king retail store, pick out your 13 weapons of choice, pay bargain prices, pass a background check, and walk out with them all gift wrapped along with a couple of buckets of ammunition. Good luck with your killing spree….

            Do you get the difference yet?

            Of course it won’t be impossible to get one… but out of some small amount of human compassion for the 130,000 Americans killed each year perhaps you’d like to TRY to make it a little f**king harder to get.

          • As usual for post-intellectual Trumptards with delusions of mental grandeur you have failed to point out WHERE I was wrong, or directly rebut any point I made.

            This is the intellectual equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting: “No, You’re Wrong!” over and over.

            Either you’re incapable of forming a coherent counter-argument (I rate this as most likely), too lazy to do so, or you have no leg to stand on and you know it.

            Say something useful… make an actual point… or f**k off.

          • I also asked for an honest answer, but instead got histrionics. Your info on Nevada is also incorrect.

          • While my info on Nevada may be flawed (I don’t live there), you neatly avoided ALL of the other main points I made.
            LOL Classy.

          • If you got that info from Wikipedia, that is laughable. Most of it is incorrect, but I don’t want to argue with you over it. It proves nothing.
            I own guns, belong to the NRA, am a Navy veteran, and retired from the Fire Service. I have nothing to prove. Please show some respect if you want to have a viable conversation.

          • Still no actual counterpoint… just “trust me, i’m a [fill in some internet boast here]”
            Classy.

            Well I’M a superhero, a professor of gun law, and served in the Starship troopers, and YOU’RE WRONG. I have no idea why you’re wrong and won’t tell you what you’re wrong about… BUT YOU’RE STILL WRONG.
            My Starship Troopers badge says so!

            See how amusingly stupid that was?

    • I really wish you Liberals would use a bit of common sense and logic, instead of ranting about in your usual lunatic ways, spouting off about things you know NOTHING about.
      It really is embarrassing. Please stop.

      • You’ve failed to say anything of substance.
        Do you have an actual point, or is it all the usual mindless bile, and useless ad hominem?

          • Typical infantile reply. For you to insult me, I have top care what you think, even have some minimal respect for you. No problem there.

          • Oh, but it’s not infantile to insult me, or call me names?
            Typical Liberal mindless bullshit.
            Your blocked.

          • Good. Your first post started the name-calling (while saying nothing of substance, as noted by another person replying), your last continued it, and you haven’t even got the courage to withstand criticism. So block me. Everybody else can read my reply to you, not that they need to in order to see that you have nothing but malice and stupidity to offer.

  10. Don’t you love how that Gangster Trump swaggers around the White House like he’s John Gotti personified? Now, he’s latched onto yet another strategy to launder what we know is the DIRTIEST US occupant of the White House EVER…Mr. Beneficence.

    Don’t be fooled by Trump sudden vocalizing about pure evil. He could win an Oscar for his performance in “How to Feign Innocence.” Not that he hasn’t tried that role before.

    Any time Trump can latch onto some ACT he thinks gets him “higher ratings,” he is on it like stink on an ape.

  11. What bothered me is that Hillary mentioned the exact same thing discussed here, what if he had a suppressor, or silencer. And some took offense to that and of course I couldn’t leave it alone.
    It did produce a good sane discussion, with both of us agreeing that some people just shouldn’t have weapons at all.
    Of course that begs the issue, who determines what and by what criteria? And just where is the line drawn, as a lot of former military prefer military style weapons (for sane reasons) as do a lot of police. And then there are those that love to shoot. Are they crazy.
    There are just way too many arguments from both sides. But one thing can and should be done.
    A Federal Law that requires background checks and a waiting period to allow that to be done, computerizing the data for faster searching. Take the states individual differences out of it, level the field. You want a weapon, fine. Pass the tests.

    • I also heard that fat tush Sarah Huckabee Sanders say that during the so called White House Press conference.

      There is a time and a place for everything under heaven as the saying goes. Public streets are NOT the place for assault weapons. The only reason these dickheads arm themselves in public is to show ass and intimidate. It’s all they have of what they think is “power.”

      We in the Metro area know the dangers of open carry. There are just too many people on crowded buses, trains and subways, not to mention airports that always have delays to allow anyone to open carry.

      Do that here in NY or NJ and it’ll get you a nice stay in jail.

      The reality is that these gun addicts are just as addicted to their guns as any druggie is to heroin. They don’t possess the presence of mind or adult responsibility to realize they are not the only important individuals in our society. They prove that every time we have another of these horrific massacres.

      As for background checks, you’ll be frustrated to know that gun dealers in those open gun shows don’t even bother. Put a few detectives in at these shows and watch them obey the laws.

      • Yeah, I have known about the (lack of) background checks in the gun shows. And the crying about how that would just ruin their profitable businesses if they really had to do them.
        That is why I stated about computerizing the data. To date that has not really been done. Most stuff is on paper or microfilm. How efficient (dripping sarcasm here), and how nice for the gun shows where they do not have access to those records.

        • Richard, I would love to agree with you about computizing the data. But, look what CEOs do to avoid checking the status of their immigrant new hires with the computerized data at EVerify.They claim it takes too much time to check the status. BS. It takes less than a few seconds.

          However, I do like the idea of computerizing all gun manufacturers daily production of guns, making all gun dealers carry IDs and liability insurance and forcing them to download software apps onto their gun buyer databases that can be shared with the government.

          Not that Sessions at the DOJ will ever do anything to stop gun violence. He’s part of the problem.

          • Well if those CEOs would just get kicked in the ass a few times. Oh wait, that won’t happen because the GOP is in cahoots with them over those issues.
            There are a lot of ways to upgrade the information on weapons and buyers checks. And if the system decides to get tough it can simply lift the licenses of the sellers if they are found to not have done what they are supposed to do.
            See, we just created some jobs. More than Bozo the Clown in the WH has really done. LOL

          • Great suggestions. Especially forcing them to buy liability insurance, just like doctors have to do. Doctors commit malpractice now and then, and selling guns willy nilly is malpractice as well.

      • About 20 years ago ABC had a shortlived comedy called Sledgehammer. It’s star David Rasche portrayed a gun loving detective who embodied Maxwell Smart. One thing that stood out was when he went to bed on the pillow next to him was his revolver. I now realize that while it was played for laughs I assume quite a few gun owners do the same thing. Now that’s what I call both being paranoid and an obsession

    • If you really want a weapon all you have to do is drive to the south side of Chicago and buy anything you want, no test needed or back ground search. So, in other words you people are talking out your ass. What a bunch of losers.

      • We in the Metro area don’t need guns. We are not violent nuts. Are you?

        You don’t hide your white boy bigotry, dickhead. You pick on Chicago when you know that already you white boy killers murder hundreds in a single incident. Try again Hick Boy.

      • You’re just a modern-day Frankenstein with a sadistic condition tossed in.
        Are you some demonic contraption programmed to post callous comments? Perhaps you’re just a cheap imitation of a human being, a minion of Satan.

      • Johhny five—only a vacant mind would choose such a name—you have no idea the harm you inflict on yourself. By wasting your time posting garbage intended to sow seeds of doubt, and to take advantage of tragedies, you are only building a long and dreadful list of satanic acts which will quite likely will be brought to your attention in the next life.
        Perhaps the Russian Orthodox Church has been woefully lax in its responsibilities to edify the hearts and souls of humanity in your neck of the woods, and which may well mean an eternity of suffering and misgivings about squandering your opportunity to better your spiritual condition. But don’t mind me—just keep doing what you know best. And that is to be an ass and a source of discord.

      • F**k off dumbass.
        Those “south side of Chicago” guns have to come from somewhere. The harder they are to get, and the more illegal it is to have one, the higher the price becomes. The higher the stakes and the price the less people buy them… and the less that end up in circulation.

        This is another mindless version of: “Since we can never stop a really determined person getting a gun, we should give up and not do anything.”
        Seems about your mental level, you troglodyte.

        Ironically when car crashes happen, or aircraft disasters happen, people analyse the problem and change the law to mitigate or stop that same thing happening again.
        Does this mean no car or plane will ever crash again? No.
        Does this mean no determined driver or pilot can crash their vehicle or aircraft? No.

        It simply reduces the size and possibility of the problem happening again.
        …Because that’s what sane, educated people who believe in statistics and science do.
        Unlike you and your deplorable father-cousin friends.

          • Yeah sure, buddy… because when I go to the South Side of Chicago all the people there sell guns direct from South Africa and Germany…….. and when you buy one it arrives by Stork direct from the country of origin……………..

            Do you understand what “importing laws” are?
            Do you understand who has to ship the guns from the importer to where you can buy them?
            Do you understand anything?
            (Don’t stress, it’s a rhetorical question, moron)

        • Your trying t convince me educated? You haven’t a clue about life. The best part of you ran down your fathers leg. If it wasn’t for having guns you would still be a colony of the British empire.

          • So you’re crude as well as ignorant, stupid, dishonest, and malicious. It’s clear that you either got little or no education, or it didn’t take. You sound like Trump, though perhaps I insult the man – dumb as he is – by comparing him to you.

          • Who or what is stupid? Sounds like you, Johnny-boy. You also sound like a loser, mentally, and in every other way that counts. The talking point is not, nor was it ever, valid. If the nation weren’t awash in guns, it would become increasingly difficult over time for those guys in Chicago and other high-crime districts to obtain those guns. Are you stupid enough to think they make them? They steal them from legal owners and / or obtain them by illegally buying from “legitimate” sources by fraudulent means that could likely be reduced or eliminated by reasonable laws and strict enforcement.
            Australia banned practically all guns, and has a reduced murder rate to show for it, a drastically reduced rate, if I recall properly.
            You and all the other excuse makers for the slaughter are completely full of feces, excepting only fthe spaceoccupied by malice and stupidity.

      • What you fail to comprehend is the logistics of doing so. The vast majority of people who live in the burbs and have their gun cabinets in the family room and their gun safes in the garage or basement would be too scared to drive to the south side of any city and purchase a gun. Most wouldn’t even know how to go about it. I’m betting you are using that old tired talking point but wouldn’t know how to accomplish it either.
        So before you make more mouth dumps Johnny it might be wise to not say anything that doesn’t improve upon silence.

    • I totally agree with your post. This insanity that our elected officials is beholden to the NRA is mind numbing. There was a time the NRA was useful in educating gun owners on the proper handling and safety of these lethal weapons. Just like the requirement to drive a car legally in all 50 states we need to get gun owners to take a test so they know how to handle guns safely. We need to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and felons. In certain states like Florida they are never allowed to vote again but yet can be a gun owner is just plain illogical. Why any sane person would object to this is irresponsible and frankly dumbfounding

    • Why take the states out of it and destroy all competition? What if guns were licensed by the states in the same way cars are, with gun owners required to purchase liability insurance? This would lead to a whole new and highly lucrative insurance business. The NRA could be just like AARP, promoting a range of insurance offerings. Those who wish to own guns would also be more aware that if their guns harm people or property, the victims will be compensated–causing the cost of gun owners’ insurance to go up. Another bonus: A whole new, highly lucrative branch of legal practice would be required to service the gun insurance industry. What’s not to love?

  12. As usual, Richwho needs us to show him right from wrong thinks he has all the facts. You know where he gets them don’t you? Some Trumped up fake news like Faux News or Sarah Huckabee Sanders. The Great Trump Iron Woman who would kiss that Lard Ass for the rest of her life to get her face in public. Showing ass…that’s what it’s all about for righties. If they can’t show off, they go into manic depression.

  13. Indeed we require more than the hollow expression of ‘thoughts and prayers.’ However, we are luckly to get even that from Congress. Nice of the NRA to allow such utterances from elected officials.

  14. One question to ask the man in the White House. How does he want to label this act of terrorism? Would he like to call it “White Christian Terrorism” since the perpetrator was White and Christian. Or, would he call it “NRA Terrorism” since it is the consequence of NRA’s choke hold of the US Congress? Or, may be “Republican Terrorism” since they have been blocking to reinstate the ban on assault rifles since they have been in control of the Congress?

  15. to say “thoughts and prayers are with you”, is nothing but rhetoric,and literally and figuratively means nothing! the politicians or whomever that say this feel they must say something,and this coined phrase is no more than a platitude.its like saying “have a nice day” to someone on the phone..what should be said with sincerity is what can be done to stop this from happening again,like much stricter gun legislation..doesnt anyone else feel the number and type of guns the shooter had, as well as the amount of ammunition should trigger some form of questioning the hows and whys and also the wheres of these purchases,even though he supposedly passed a background check????

  16. For the second amendment crazies:
    I’m curious as to exactly how anyone else being able to own and/or conceal a weapon during this tragedy would have helped….?
    Any gun nut like to answer?

    Because it’s always the “good guy with a gun” argument when it comes down to concealed carry and the “freedom to own a gun”. So by all means… please tell me what all those “good guys with guns” would have done about a maniac with a fully automatic rifle, 12 backup rifles, and endless ammo on the 32nd floor of a hotel at least 100-1000 yards away from you…
    Do tell us how you would save everyone with your gun.

    If you can’t.. then maybe you’d like to consider banning sales of those sorts of long range, scoped rifles and endless ammo…
    Just a thought.

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