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What The Right Doesn’t Get About Obama And Religion

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What The Right Doesn’t Get About Obama And Religion

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President Barack Obama speaks at a press conference in the East Room of the White House on Monday, Feb. 9, 2015 in Washington, D.C. (Olivier Douliery/Abaca Press/TNS)

Because I’m not running for anything, I can give it to you straight: Christianity pretty much got out of the genocide business when church and state became separated in the United States and Europe following the American Revolution. As a consequence, all of the truly impressive mass murders in living memory were carried out by secular ideologues worshiping the nation state — a superstition to which millions of Americans are not entirely immune.

More about that directly. Meanwhile, yes, President Obama was a bit tone deaf and smug in his remarks at the National Prayer Breakfast last week. A band of primitive fanatics beheads innocent captives, burns an Allied POW alive and sends out a slickly-produced video of the atrocity, and the president says we shouldn’t “get on our high horse” about it? He references the Crusades, a regular feature in ISIS propaganda? I suppose we can be grateful he didn’t call ISIS “folks.”

Mr. President, the Crusades took place 1000 years ago. Better to cite Oliver Cromwell, who was slaughtering my Irish Catholic ancestors a mere 350 years ago. Or the French King Louis XV’s persecution of Protestant Huguenots a half century after that. Along with the English Civil Wars of the 17th century, the examples of these religiously motivated genocides persuaded Jefferson and Madison to build their famous wall between church and state.

Indeed, I shall vigorously applaud the first president who gives these prayer breakfasts a pass — assuming I live that long, which ain’t likely. Leave them to NASCAR drivers.

Even so, Obama’s right. Many Christians did argue that the Bible sanctioned Negro slavery. Writing in The Atlantic, Ta-Nehisi Coates quoted Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens arguing that God made black people inferior to whites, and that “’the Christianization of the barbarous tribes of Africa’ could only be accomplished through enslavement.”

Coates also points out that in his infamous 1963 “’Segregation Now’ speech, George Wallace invokes God 27 times and calls the federal government opposing him ‘a system that is the very opposite of Christ.’”

Jesus being a well-know seg, of course.

And what do the sad sack sheet heads of the KKK do when they want attention? They burn crosses.

But yes, 19th century abolitionists also more plausibly claimed divine sanction. So did Martin Luther King. As Obama implied, history is complicated.

But back to the president’s prayer breakfast remarks. Here’s the part they’re not banging on about at Fox News:

“From a school in Pakistan to the streets of Paris, we have seen violence and terror perpetrated by those who profess to stand up for faith…professed to stand up for Islam, but, in fact, are betraying it.  We see ISIL, a brutal, vicious death cult that, in the name of religion, carries out unspeakable acts of barbarism — terrorizing religious minorities like the Yezidis, subjecting women to rape as a weapon of war, and claiming the mantle of religious authority.”

Let’s see now: “brutal, vicious death cult,” “unspeakable acts of barbarism.” This, one Republican congressman, Rep. John Fleming, calls “a case to defend radical Islam.” He asserts that the president basically declared ISIS to be “just like the patriots of the Revolutionary War.”

Honestly, where do they find them? Bossier City, Louisiana, in Fleming’s case. You’d be tempted to observe that the congressman, although a physician, is either a great simpleton, or he’s confident that his constituents are.

Probably both.

Elsewhere, people calling themselves “conservatives” demand that President Obama pronounce the magic words “radical Islam,” or “Islamic radicalism.” Obama has steadfastly refused; doubtless for the same reasons President George W. Bush kept insisting that Islam was a “religion of peace” in the days just after 9/11.

Because when you’re in a propaganda war against a theocratic splinter group that’s trying to persuade billions of Muslims that “Crusaders” are at war with their faith, it would be seriously dumb to play directly into their hands.

Another problem is that many of today’s self-proclaimed conservatives are themselves religious fundamentalists offended by Obama’s gutless relativism. Diplomacy be damned. They’d only be happy with a president who denounced Islam as a false religion.

“Our God is red hot; your God ain’t diddly squat.”

Most also tend to be aggressive nationalists as George Orwell defined the term. In a famous 1945 essay, Orwell distinguished between love of country and the temptation to deify the nation-state — “placing it beyond good and evil and recognizing no other duty than that of advancing its interests.”

“Nationalism,” he emphasized “is not to be confused with patriotism.” The nationalist thinks entirely “in terms of competitive prestige…his thoughts always turn on victories, defeats, triumphs and humiliations…Nationalism is power-hunger tempered by self-deception.”

It almost goes without saying that such persons resent any and all comparisons to lesser nations and people, i.e. to all of them.

This far into his presidency, it’s remarkable that Obama thinks it worthwhile to try.

Photo: President Barack Obama speaks at a press conference in the East Room of the White House on Monday, Feb. 9, 2015 in Washington, D.C. (Olivier Douliery/Abaca Press/TNS)

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Gene Lyons

Gene Lyons is a political columnist and author. Lyons writes a column for the Arkansas Times that is nationally syndicated by United Media. He was previously a general editor at Newsweek as wells an associate editor at Texas Monthly where he won a National Magazine Award in 1980. He contributes to Salon.com and has written for such magazines as Harper's, The New York Times Magazine, The New York Review of Books, Entertainment Weekly, Washington Monthly, The Nation, Esquire, and Slate. A graduate of Rutgers University with a Ph.D. in English from the University of Virginia, Lyons taught at the Universities of Massachusetts, Arkansas and Texas before becoming a full-time writer in 1976. A native of New Jersey, Lyons has lived in Arkansas with his wife Diane since 1972. The Lyons live on a cattle farm near Houston, Ark., with a half-dozen dogs, several cats, three horses, and a growing herd of Fleckvieh Simmental cows. Lyons has written several books including The Higher Illiteracy (University of Arkansas, 1988), Widow's Web (Simon & Schuster, 1993), Fools for Scandal (Franklin Square, 1996) as well as The Hunting Of The President: The 10 Year Campaign to Destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton, which he co-authored with National Memo Editor-in-Chief Joe Conason.

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286 Comments

  1. Independent1 February 11, 2015

    Virtually all the atrocities that we have heard spoken of recently in the name of religion, are, and have been, committed by misguided zealots of whatever religion. Zealots in the Christian faith who, I think, often forget that the Old Testament, and virtually all that is recorded there in the many millenniums gone by, was declared obsolete by St. Paul in his letter to the Romans Chapter 8, because of the coming of Jesus. When Jesus came with the New Testament – the Old Testament should have vanished. Sadly, over the centuries since Jesus came, many Christians have not come to the realization that what happened during the Old Testament times was supposed to been FORGOTTEN and THEREFORE, IT SHOULD HAVE VANISHED!!

    And so misguidedly, because they’e hanging onto so much of the past – as were the Pharisees of Jesus time, they haven’t allowed themselves to really accept these words of Jesus that were recorded for us by the Apostle Matthew in the 5th chapter of his Gospel:

    Love for Enemies

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    And this:

    38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

    If all Christians would except and truly believe those words of Jesus, there would never have been any of those atrocities committed.

    Reply
    1. mike February 11, 2015

      The difference is the those Christians doing violence in the name of God were/are doing opposite of the teachings in the Bible. Not one word about killing the unbeliever.
      The Koran has 35 verses to kill the unbelievers.

      1. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

        LOL How much of the Old Testament have you actually read?

        1. mike February 11, 2015

          Name the verses where “Christians” were told to kill the unbelievers. Like the 35 times in the Koran.

          1. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            LOL You are the master of deflection.
            A credit to all the folks you represent.

          2. mike February 11, 2015

            No, the laugh is on you!

            If you could name the verses you would.

          3. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            No, I don’t feel any need to humor your idiocy.

          4. mike February 11, 2015

            If you could you would provide the verses.
            Laughs on you!!

          5. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            Whatever you say bug boy.

        2. idamag February 11, 2015

          I am wondering how much of the Koran he has read. How did this erupt into a discussion of religion? You are very right in people can have no religion and be of excellent character with good ethics.

          1. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            Reminds of a child who look for all the curse words or dirty parts in books.

          2. idamag February 11, 2015

            That is it. I remember when Ted Bundy was on trial. His defense team tried to claim his addiction to certain magazines caused his problem. As I remember well, when I was first married, I subscribed to Good Housekeeping, and recipe magazines as that was where my interest lay. Men who like the outdoors read outdoor magaqzines. My husband whose addiction was golf, subscribed to Gold Magazine. As my interests changed so did my reading habits. These people are only going to read what reinforces their hatred.

    2. angelsinca February 11, 2015

      I love whenever liberals try to lecture Christians on how to be Christian. Especially on a political blog that abhors religion. Next thing you know, they’ll try to lecture white people on the color of their skin.

      1. highpckts February 11, 2015

        Oh give it up! It’s so funny when you righties try to turn everything around and accuse us of doing what you have been doing for decades! Proof is in the facts! You guys are like 2 year olds pointing the finger and saying” well they did it first”. How childish!

        1. angelsinca February 12, 2015

          I’m not the officially designated spokesperson for whitey or righty or two year olds. The language skills haven’t developed enough at that age to engage in much more than exploring, playing and wondering why the grown ups act like they are more important than each other.

          1. highpckts February 12, 2015

            Well then quit acting like you are holier than thou when it comes to who is telling “lies” and who isn’t! Fox far out does any news station on the air and it is a proven fact!!

      2. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

        Your comment implies you believe liberals cannot be real Christians.
        LOL Full of yourself a little?

        1. angelsinca February 12, 2015

          I don’t even know what a ‘real’ Christian is supposed to be. A ‘fake’ Christian wouldn’t be a Christian. It seems religion isn’t confined by political boundaries. But it’s safe to to say most anti-religious, anti-God rants are directed at conservatives by liberals. Especially those with a guilt-free lifestyle to protect and preserve. I’m not filled with me. That’s only food passing through, after the fuel is extracted.

          1. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            A fake Christian would be one who professes to be a Christian but uses God as a prop when they sit in judgment of others. They can quote the bible in selectively pick out passages to condemn the behavior of others in an attempt to control them. They believe their religious freedoms should give them the right to impose their beliefs on everyone. They are often the same ones who wave the flag and claim they are the real “Patriots”.
            No, it’s definitely not the left exhibiting those behaviors.

          2. angelsinca February 13, 2015

            Sounds more like evangelists.

    3. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

      With or without religious beliefs it is possible for people to live decent and honorable lives if they choose to. I have the greatest respect for the devout who actually walk the talk. The rest, the here again there again “Christians” who use God as a prop and sword for their own twisted agenda, the ultimate distain. They are no better than the fundamentalists in any other religion

    4. oldtack February 11, 2015

      Very good analogy.

  2. FT66 February 11, 2015

    Love him or hate him, Pres. Obama is more smarter than putting heads of all Fox News workers combined.

    Reply
    1. angelsinca February 11, 2015

      I feel confident you voted for him because he is ‘more smarter’. Good to see education is not wasted on everyone.

      1. FT66 February 11, 2015

        Right Angela Sinclair. No smart person will cast their vote to a person like Scott Walker, a dropper who didn’t care to finish his studies, BUT cares to lead those who are more educated than him. Please think about it!

        1. angelsinca February 12, 2015

          I don’t know enough about Scott Walker to praise him as a leader or condemn him as an enemy to unions and the people, as the left has. His opposing Democratic candidates must have been real whoppers.

  3. Hal Burton February 11, 2015

    To understand Obama, you must first understand that he considers himself a marxist revolutionary.

    Reply
    1. jmprint February 11, 2015

      So you are the pick of the litter for today. I love these short computer spats.

    2. Eleanore Whitaker February 11, 2015

      And you are able to prove your envious, narrow minded post in a court of law? How do you know what any other human being considers themselves?

      You just proved what a bunch of right wing BS artists you beak brained righties are.

      1. whodatbob February 11, 2015

        Eleanore, give Hal Burton hell!

        Sounds like he is from the northeast. Could not resist.

    3. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

      Designated troll boy?

    4. latebloomingrandma February 11, 2015

      Who knew Marxists could be Muslim also.?

    5. highpckts February 11, 2015

      Go away! No trolls allowed!! Peddle your prejudices elsewhere!

      1. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

        LOL Yeah, find a Palin site. 🙂

    6. charleo1 February 11, 2015

      Wow! Who knew a Marxist Revolutionary elected President could enter office during the worst recession in 80 years, and triple the stock market, see 10 million formerly unemployed go back to work,
      bring a run away deficit to it’s lowest increases since the Eisenhower Presidency, save a major car company, or kill the terrorist responsible for the largest attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor! In that case, call me a Marxist Revolutionary too!

  4. Dominick Vila February 11, 2015

    The first thing to remember is that President Obama and his family attend church services at the St. Johns Episcopal Church in Washington DC. I realize that for his detractors, especially the disciples of David Duke, evidence such as this is just a bump on the road that can be ignored or easily turned into just about anything they wish, including converting an Episcopalian church into a Mosque in hiding, but that doesn’t mean sane people, with a minimal amount of decency, should ignore facts and embrace the bile used by the most radical members of our society.
    Trying to distort President Obama’s behavior, values, deeds, and vision has been a central part of the far right agenda that has dominated the news since the day after his inauguration in January 2009. The racist and immature behavior of those who can only offer hatred and negativism is not going to change. It is up to us to find and highlight the truth, and establish a contrast between the behavior of those consumed by overt hatred, and elementary civics and pragmatism.

    Reply
    1. mike February 11, 2015

      More hog wash! Since elected he has been to church 18 times by CBS count. PS: Bush 120.
      As Michelle said on, Kelly and Michael, Sunday is our downtime, family time, “loungin and nappin”.
      I just highlighted the truth!!!

      1. Dominick Vila February 11, 2015

        I don’t recall saying that President Obama attends Church services every Sunday. My statement simply stated that he attends church services at the St. Johns Episcopalian Church in Washington DC. My point refers to the allegations repeated over and over again by the far right about President Obama being a Muslim.
        As an agnostic, leaning atheist, I would have liked it better if he didn’t go to Church at all. As for the Obama’s enjoying their Sundays, relaxing and enjoying each other, I wish more people did the same.

        1. itsfun February 11, 2015

          Dom: You didn’t say Obama attends church services every Sunday, but your first sentence infers that. You sound like a politician spinning the truth. Perhaps you need a trip to the no-spin zone.

          1. FT66 February 11, 2015

            Those who are carrying “no-spin zone” shows, are spinning every now and then.

          2. Eleanore Whitaker February 11, 2015

            What business is it of anyone’s what church any president attends? Least of all the conversionistas of the right.

          3. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            I didn’t read it that way. “Attends services” in no way infers frequency.

          4. idamag February 11, 2015

            Only proves my theory that these trolls have a reading and understanding what they read problem. They only listen to ,read, and blog those sites which reinforce their already prejudices.

          5. itsfun February 11, 2015

            Just shows to go you, that 2 people can read something and see it in 2 different ways.

          6. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            Exactly and Dom confirmed his intent.

        2. mike February 11, 2015

          Will you missed again, Dom.
          Yes, he does attend the “Church of Presidents” but also several others, your statement that he “attend church service” was attempt to make Obama a regular church goer, which he isn’t.

          This Sunday, the first family attended services at Crestwood’s Zion Baptist Church, located just off 16th Street NW a few miles north of the White House. They’ve also attended the Nineteenth Street Baptist Church on 16th Street NW, Vermont Avenue Baptist in Shaw, Allen Chapel AME on Alabama Avenue, Metropolitan AME on M Street NW near the White House and Shiloh Baptist Church in Shaw.

          1. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            You keep track of where all presidents attend church? Interesting hobby.

          2. mike February 11, 2015

            I don’t but CBS News has kept count.

          3. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            Well you felt the need to give the count as though it implies something.

          4. Grannysmovin February 11, 2015

            Why is anyone keeping track? Going to Church on a regular basis or not, does not determine if you are a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ Christian.

          5. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            AMEN!

          6. highpckts February 11, 2015

            Wow! Looking for something to pin on the President? Too much time on your hands? What?

        3. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

          You didn’t say that . It was misread so Obama’s church attendance could be related as poof of what I’m not certain.

      2. jmprint February 11, 2015

        What is your point? The BK Killer attended church every Wednesday and Sunday. Does that make him holier then Bush.

        1. Eleanore Whitaker February 11, 2015

          Oh come off it. We all know that Bush is a dry drunk who was, in his college days, wild and free and boozing like his twin daughter did during his 8 years.

          People with skeletons piling up in their closets always “get religion” as a result of confrontation or when their livers finally fail.

          1. mike February 11, 2015
          2. Eleanore Whitaker February 11, 2015

            The Guardian? Isn’t that a British newspaper that is the most left leaning? I only know this because I worked with an engineer from Lancashire who continued to receive that rag bag paper.

            Check with the Princeton NJ police. Bush got arrrested in Princeton in his college days when he and his frat boys tried to take on the Princeton boys. Bush was arrested for being drunk and disorderly.

            Back in 2003, there was a NY newspaper (The NY Daily News) article about how GWB had converted to Catholicism after his years of being an “alcoholic.” This is not news. In fact, Laura Bush credited herself for getting her husband into “recovery.” How do you not know this?

            One former boozer always tries to cover for another. Got a booze problem or are you also a dry drunk?

          3. mike February 11, 2015

            Play your game all you want, but the fact that obama has admitted on numerous times that he was a big Pot smoker.
            Actually I think that he smoked to much, his leadership seems to be all over the place in a negative way for this country and fits the profile of a damaged brain from pot.

          4. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            “Actually I think” sounds like personal opinion based on nothing factual.

          5. mike February 11, 2015

            Actions speak louder that worlds. Fact are pretty abundant, his poll numbers have been dismal. High negatives on Foreign relations, not trusted by the American people, direction of country wrong way, ACA approval in the negative. His job approval is still a negative but has risen slightly by the low oil prices, which he has/had nothing to do with.
            Go look at realclearpolitics

          6. highpckts February 11, 2015

            Where do you get your “facts”??? I swear you don’t live in the same country we do! You are way off base!!

          7. mike February 11, 2015

            I see you can’t read.
            I said go to: http://www.reaclearlpolitics.com which compiles the different polls.

          8. idamag February 12, 2015

            Same place he got his credentials.

          9. highpckts February 12, 2015

            He has no credentials except for his bigoted mouth!

          10. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            So you just want to use every topic to segue into your opinions about Obama. Okay, get that you don’t like him. Duly noted. That your opinions reflect that of someone who views a small dark place continually is also apparent.

          11. mike February 11, 2015

            Not just my opinions but of thousands of other Americans from many different pollsters.

          12. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            LMAO

          13. idamag February 12, 2015

            Mike should know a fascist when he sees one.

          14. highpckts February 11, 2015

            Really? Must explain all his degrees and the fact that he is President that his brain is damaged. Your brain on the other hand we know is damaged by listening to too much Fox news, and I use that term loosely!

          15. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            I’m surprised you don’t use the term “reefer madness.”

          16. idamag February 12, 2015

            You notice he didn’t take your facts and use other facts to dispute them. He blurts out, “What a load of garbage,” further showing his lack of reading skills.

          17. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            I think he was responding to Eleanore on that one.

          18. Eleanore Whitaker February 12, 2015

            Uh, I think a jailed boozer who bankrupts his own Oil company, a TX baseball team and the US Economy in the 8th year of his presidency shows you are a real envious jerk who can’t stand that several GOP men have also admitted to smoking pot.

            Obama’s leadership saved YOUR butt jealous little boy. Your country was in tatters as a result of YOUR president handing out 2 tax cuts that increased the wealth of the 1% by 22% and then crashed the economy with the Sept. 2008 meltdown.

            Nothing you post now or ever changes these facts. Hate that don’t you? Good…you right wing haters are disgusting commentaries on humanity anyway. Why should anyone consider your posts to be provable in a court of law?

          19. mike February 12, 2015

            What a load of garbage. Thanks for the laugh.

          20. Eleanore Whitaker February 12, 2015

            The only load of garbage is that which fills the deadened brain of a jerk like you. You really can’t handle the truth can you? Shows what an asshat you prove yourself to be. I guess you’d know garbage being a garbage man yourself.

          21. mike February 12, 2015

            LMAO!!! I see more garbage of the brain. I am so sorry for you.

          22. Eleanore Whitaker February 12, 2015

            You can’t LMAO…your butt is bigger than a Long Horns. As for garbage, you’ve yet to post a single thing you can prove in court. You’re chewed up and spit out. Admit it.

          23. mike February 12, 2015

            Just more diarrhea from you, I see.
            LMAO again!!!

          24. Eleanore Whitaker February 13, 2015

            This from the man with Constipation of the brain. When you can’t “go,” it does affect your brain.

          25. mike February 13, 2015

            I am having another wonderful chuckle. Thanks!!!

          26. Eleanore Whitaker February 12, 2015

            And before you go there, here are 4 GOP bulls who smoked pot and publicly admitted it and then like the phonies they are soft sold it publicly to avoid having to admit it during their campaigns:

            Jeb Bush:

            “I drank alcohol and I smoked marijuana when I was at Andover,” he said. “It was pretty common.” Jeb Bush. Jan. 15, 2015 to a reporter of the Boston Globe.

            Ted Cruz: (From his TX spokesman to the British tabloid, “The Daily Mail:”

            “Teenagers are often known for their lack of judgment, and Sen. Cruz was no exception,” a Cruz spokesman told the British tabloid The Daily Mail. “When he was a teenager, he foolishly experimented with marijuana. It was a mistake, and he’s never tried it since.”

            Rand Paul:
            “One of his frat buddies was more forthright. “Randy smoked pot,” William Hill told Politico in 2010.

            And then there was the bizarre episode of the Aqua Buddha, an entity reportedly worshiped by a campus group to which Paul belonged. GQreported in 2010 that Paul and Hill prankishly abducted a woman student who was on the swim team with Paul. “He and Randy came to my house, they knocked on my door, and they blindfolded me, tied me up, and put me in their car. They took me to their apartment and tried to force me to take bong hits. They’d been smoking,” said the woman, who wished to remain anonymous.

            “They told me their god was Aqua Buddah and I needed to bow down and worship him,” she recalled. “They blindfolded me and made me bow down to Aqua Budda in the creek.”

            Marco Rubio:
            The junior senator from Florida won’t say whether he has passed the Dutchie, repeatedly calling such queries “irrelevant.” And besides, no one believes what he says on the topic anyway, he claimed.

            “If I tell you that I haven’t, you won’t believe me. And if I tell you that I did, then kids will look up to me and say, ‘Well, I can smoke marijuana because look how he made it. He did alright so I guess I can do it too,'” he told The Hill. “And the bottom line is that it is a substance that alters your mind. Now when I was 17 and 18 and 16, I made dumb decisions as is. I didn’t need the help of marijuana or alcohol to further that.”

            But the senator wasn’t 17 or 18 last year, when he used the occasion of a Senate filibuster to quote lyrics from the notoriously pot-friendly rapper Wiz Khalifa.

            So…the President was the ONLY elected official YOU could find to criticize for smoking pot. Go wipe the EGG off your puss.

          27. mike February 12, 2015

            Keep trying!! I was just responding to your remarks about Bush with the simple fact about Obama and his not so squeaky clean history. Plus his pathetic attempt at being a leader.
            I wasn’t looking for others and won’t waste my time.

          28. jmprint February 11, 2015

            I wasn’t implying Bush was holy, just that the BK killer is holier then Bush. Even the devil has a level of holiness, be it the lowest point. They are all false religion, because they really don’t believe in God, just in the word of MAN.

          29. Eleanore Whitaker February 11, 2015

            Mea Culpa. Wow…You have a really keen memory. It is true that in the Bible, there was a battle between Michael the Archangel and Lucifer. Apparently, as the Bible entreats, Lucifer was once one of the “good” angels” until he let pride and ego get the better of him. Thanks for reminding me of this.

            When I look at the extremities of the intricacies around me, I realize that the infinity of the universe, the planets, stars, suns and moons don’t just crash into each other with regularity. The most rigorous example of these intricacies, our human bodies and their mechanisms, are all the proof I need of an omnipotent divinity.

            The real difference between good and evil lies within each of us. Those of us who choose good must, like Michael the Archangel fight a battle with the Lucifers of this world.

          30. jmprint February 11, 2015

            EXACTLY. Thanks.

          31. whodatbob February 11, 2015

            Excellent!

          32. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            It’s a big part of AA, isn’t it?

        2. mike February 11, 2015

          Dom tried to imply that Obama attended church services at St. John’s on a regular bases, he did not acknowledge they were other churches he attended.
          Never said he was any more or less holier than Bush.

          What I have come to believe over the last few years is Obama is more pro-Islam than pro-Christian. I always ignored those who said he is a Muslim but I do believe he leans more to Islam.

          1. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            So that’s your perception. It doesn’t make it the truth.

          2. mike February 11, 2015

            That’s right! It’s Obama actions that gives many Americans pause to question his real motive.

          3. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            Not that anyone doesn’t base their perception on preconceived feelings about the man ever?
            It’s still opinion

          4. highpckts February 11, 2015

            What “actions” leads you to believe he is Muslim? Is diplomacy first a Muslim trait? Geezus!!

          5. highpckts February 11, 2015

            I’ll just bet you did ignore the Muslim part! Who are you kidding. Because his Father was a Muslim doesn’t make him one! I was raised Catholic but I left the Church long ago because they, like so many “organized” religions preach that they are the only one’s that have God’s ear! Egos are what run these churches and the desire to control! If you truly believe in the true God, then you can talk to him anywhere, anytime! You don’t know how the President thinks and it shouldn’t matter because there is that sticky thing about seperation of church and state!!

          6. mike February 11, 2015

            It shows!!! Keep walking in the wilderness.

          7. highpckts February 11, 2015

            Thank you, I will! It is a Hell of a lot better than listening to holier than thou good Christians blather on about how superior they are!

        3. idamag February 11, 2015

          It was the Pope, in France, who initiated the French Inquisition. It was a Catholic Queen who initiated the Spanish inquisition. People died.

          1. oldtack February 11, 2015

            The inquisition that ensued in France was actually begun on the orders of Catherine de Medici, mother of King Charles IX. She timed it to be on St Bartholomew’s Day 1562. This was the celebration time of the wedding of a Catholic Princess who was to be married to a Protestant Prince. She was well aware that this occasion would attract the most prominent and influential Huguenots to Paris for this occasion.. Being a devout Catholic she was probably influenced by the Church. Bur it was she that gave the order that began the massacre. There are varying reports on the number of Huguenots slain but it ranged from 25,000 in Paris to over 100,000 in the country. A few years later the perpetrators of the Paris massacre were brought to trial. Result ? All perpetrators were released as not guilty of any crime. That figures.

            I’m not trying to be “smart” or a” know it all.” One of my Ancestors Phillipe Monnett from Pitou was one of those slain on that day solely because he did not adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church..

          2. idamag February 11, 2015

            I find that quite interesting. It is more in depth than the book I read. The pope actually had more wealth than the king and lived in a palace much more sumptuous.
            this book gave the pope’s greed as the reason, but it was so long ago I might have forgotten. .

          3. oldtack February 11, 2015

            The Pope was very much behind the supression of the Calvinists known as Huguenots but it was Queen Catherine de Medici who plotted it and had it carried out during the celebration of the marriage of the Catholic Princess Margaret to the Protestant Henry of Navarone later to be King Henry IV of France. I failed to edit my post before I posted it. The time of the massacre was August 24th 1572 not 1562…

          4. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            Thank you for sharing. My dad use to read aloud the history of religions so we would have full disclosure. Not the best bedtime stories but we got over it. 🙂
            My parents were a mixed marriage. One a French Catholic and the other an Irish Protestant. It worked for them but my grandparents were never fully on board. If nothing else it taught me grace.

          5. oldtack February 12, 2015

            My Dad liked almost everyone -except the French people. 400 years after the fact my paternal family still remembered Phillipe Monnett and St Barthelomews in 1572.

          6. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            Now that’s dedication! 🙂

      3. FT66 February 11, 2015

        Mike, going to the church every Sunday which goes by, is not the proof of being a good christian. Are you not aware god is everywhere?????? One can kneel down anywhere and pray and god will listen.

        1. mike February 11, 2015

          This was not about good or bad christians. I response to Dom was his attempt to make Obama a frequent church goer, which he isn’t.

          1. jmprint February 11, 2015

            I think it was more the fact that even though he is of Muslim faith, President Obama also attends other Christian Church as God is everywhere. I don’t think Dom was referring do the amount of times President Obama goes to church. Just that he respects all religion faith.

          2. mike February 11, 2015

            I think you need to reread your post. “even though he is Muslim.”

          3. Dominick Vila February 11, 2015

            You may want to re-read Idamag’s post…or admit that your purpose in life is to attack a man you hate with a passion.

          4. mike February 11, 2015

            Really!!!! I read it and it is a load of nothing!!!
            I really don’t hate Obama, but I do find he is wrong on everything he does. He covers for Islam, by equating Christians to Radical Islamic Terrorists. He has lied from ACA, to IRS(not even a smidgen of truth), denying he ever said JV wasn’t about “ISIS”.
            “Transparency and rule of law will be touchstone of his Presidency.”
            Don’t forget WP called him Liar of the year 2013.
            Polls show he no longer trusted by the American people.

          5. Dominick Vila February 11, 2015

            According to Rasmussen Reports latest poll, 49% of likely voters approve of President Obama’s performance. Compare that to the two Bushes and Reagan at this time in their presidencies.

          6. mike February 11, 2015

            Typical Dom, change and deflect. Realclearpolitics is a compilation of all polls.
            Rasmussen has always had high numbers for Obama even when all others had much more negative numbers. Lowest approval rating was 43%. Surprised you didn’t give last weeks 51% approval

          7. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            You’re a bug.

          8. mike February 11, 2015

            Now that wasn’t nice!!!! 🙂
            BTW, I am not bugging out for you or anyone else, it’s too much fun.

          9. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            I meant it in the nicest way. I don’t even kill bugs. I relocate them. We all have our place in the world. Even Dung Beetles.

          10. mike February 11, 2015

            You remind me of a Black Widow.

          11. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            Thank you!

          12. mike February 11, 2015

            Sounds about right, use them and then abuse them.
            🙂

          13. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            If you’re talking about the bug, there are worse bugs to be.
            If you’re reference is to a human of dubious character, you couldn’t be more wrong .
            I’m a peace loving , bleeding heart liberal. Use and abuse is too republican a trait for me. 🙂

          14. mike February 12, 2015

            Yes, you are a bleeding heart liberal, but that doesn’t make your positions absolutely right.
            As to black widow(use and abuse), you thanked me, and now you deny they don’t kill the male and eat after mating because it is to Republican. Funny!!!

          15. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            The odds of being right are increased when one uses factual information rather than opinions based on one’s feelings and their fears.
            I thanked you because there are much worse bugs you could have chosen.

            As far as spiders eating their mates, it happens
            but not so often with the American variety. I can only speak for myself but mine has lived quite happily unharmed in the same web for quite awhile. 🙂

            “It is often said that the male (usually significantly smaller than the female, down to 1% of her size as seen in Tidarren sisyphoides) is likely to be killed by the female after the coupling, or sometimes even before intercourse has been initiated*.
            This supposed propensity is what gave the black widow spider, Latrodectus mactans, its name. However, the three species of North American black widows do not usually kill the male (although they have been known to do so). Males can sometimes even live in the web of a female for a while without being harmed in any way.”

            *I suspect the stupid ones often get eaten when they speak.:-)

          16. idamag February 12, 2015

            I don’t know…a bug caught in a web of right-wing lies might fit.

          17. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            The winner!!!!!
            Good one.

          18. mike February 12, 2015

            Still laughing!!!
            I never said you were a bug. I called you a spider which isn’t an bug/insect. It is from the class Arachnida. which differs from bugs/insects in many ways. No wings, multiple eyes, 2 bodies(not 3), and 4 pair of legs.

            But, I thought you would have known that, you being the maven.

          19. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            I know bug isn’t a classification. I used it as general term.
            Now I’m a maven?
            It only gets better.

          20. mike February 12, 2015

            Maven?? You are not! 🙂

          21. plc97477 February 12, 2015

            That kinda demeans bugs but I get the point. He is like a gnat that is just an irritant.

          22. Dominick Vila February 11, 2015

            Change and deflect? I answered your last comment. I guess we should only provide the data that Mike prefers…

          23. idamag February 11, 2015

            The war criminal’s approval rating was 29.

          24. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            He’s not of the Muslim faith. His biological father was raised Muslim. When living in Indonesia Obama attended a Muslim school and also a Catholic school. He has never been a practicing Muslim or Catholic.

          25. jmprint February 11, 2015

            Without asking him his preference you are correct. I myself visit all religious houses, to educate myself on others beliefs in order to form my own opinion. Even though I was raised Catholic, I don’t consider myself a Catholic, because there are things in every religious organization that I don’t agree with. My faith is in God and Jesus Christ.

          26. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            I was also raised with religion, baptized, weekly attendance and confirmation and thought it important enough to raise children in the same way so they had a platform to spring from. I was fortunate enough to have a godfather who was a minister and he took me to services in various churches, synagogues and a mosque. I learned all religions are well intentioned. After a certain age we all form our own opinions and I always thought kids should have the right to be able to express themselves with honesty and to question everything without being stifled.
            I don’t ask anyone about their religious affiliations or even if they have any. I’ve always felt my beliefs are my own and personal and so were theirs. If they want to volunteer it, it doesn’t change a thing.
            I’ve found people who ask usually do so to form some kind of judgments so my response is, why do you ask? I have the greatest respect for the devout who actually walk the talk. I have the greatest disdain for those who use God as well the flag to further their agenda. They can quote a few bible verses usually when it’s to condemn someone but the actual doctrines and tenets of their religion is lost on them.
            Many who call themselves Christian in this country are no better than the fundamentalists in any of the religions they criticize.

          27. idamag February 11, 2015

            The metaphor about Mike also fits you. If you had studied as carefully as you think you did, Obama attended a Catholic School. Even if he was a Muslim, which he is not, we do (as of yet) have freedom of religion in this country.

          28. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            Oh I quite agree. I’ve never voted for anyone based on their professed religious affiliations. In fact I’m real leery of anyone who makes their decisions based on what God tells them or those who leave things in God’s hands.

          29. Dominick Vila February 11, 2015

            Popes have visited and delivered sermons in Greek Orthodox Churches, protestant Churches, and if I am not mistaken some have visited Synagogues and Mosques. Needless to say, Pope are the head of the Catholic Church.
            As for President Obama visiting various Christian churches, I am not sure what that implies. Could it be that he respects the spiritual beliefs and preferences of all Americans?

          30. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            He didn’t. You read it in the way you wanted so you could give the stats on frequency.

          31. mike February 11, 2015

            The inference was there!

          32. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            I didn’t read frequency into it.

          33. idamag February 11, 2015

            Have you ever met a mother who abused one child in a family? They are always looking for something to hit the child for. Mike is an abuser always looking for a reason.

          34. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            LOL Bingo!

          35. highpckts February 11, 2015

            Can’t get out of this one mikey! You have no defense and you know it!

          36. mike February 11, 2015

            I don’t think so, only in your little mind.

          37. highpckts February 11, 2015

            SeeYou prove our point by always coming back with your little snide remarks!

          38. mike February 11, 2015

            Those remarks are appropriate for this occasion.
            Keep walking.

          39. highpckts February 11, 2015

            Well if we all are so “stupid” why are you here??

          40. charleo1 February 11, 2015

            “mike,” doesn’t have a defense. Corner him, and he’ll say he’s amused. (Big on the Ls & Os.) First grader stuff. Then he’ll tell you your heads up your arse, with more, Ls & Os. Followed by several exclamation marks. Comments usually not worth a response.
            Unless you’re waiting for wet paint to dry.

          41. idamag February 11, 2015

            I would say thsat mike didn’t graduate summa cum laude from Harvard.

          42. Dominick Vila February 11, 2015

            No, my attempt was to highlight the hypocrisy of those who continue to claim that he is a Muslim.

          43. mike February 11, 2015

            Nice try!! That was not your point.
            “Disciples of David Duke” how ridiculous.

          44. Canistercook February 11, 2015

            Who knows what he is or isn’t. At least we knew a dedicated man ran against him!

          45. jmprint February 11, 2015

            Yes, a “dedicated to his money” man.

          46. Canistercook February 11, 2015

            Sounds like you are jealous. There are some pretty rich Democrats, especially in California where Obama keeps coming up with an excuse to do a fund raiser!

          47. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            I’m jealous of his low tax rate.
            I’m sorry he’s not running again because I’d really like to see his tax returns in the year the IRS offered amnesty to Swiss bank account holders who failed to disclose on their tax returns because they thought they would remain anonymous. He was also working for “uncle” Willard Marroitt when the Son of Boss tax shelter scandal occurred. Yeah, he’s a stand up guy.

          48. Canistercook February 25, 2015

            His tax rate is the same as yours – guess you don’t earn enough to get into his bracket!

          49. Canistercook February 25, 2015

            Yes dedicated to running a business and creating jobs. Dedicated to working hard and like his fellow Mormons to working to provide for his family. Like most religions they have a few nuts but the majority are good hard working citizens!

          50. jmprint February 26, 2015

            Dedicated to running a business no matter how many Americans he put out of work, by buying small business and closing them, and sending the majority of the work oversees. Because being a millionaire is just not enough. When you get rich on the backs of hard working people, and give nothing back, that does not make you a decent man.

            I don’t think religions are bad, I think people that become part of a religion or cult and then because they attend a worshiping house think that they have the right to criticize and condemn others.

      4. FT66 February 11, 2015

        If Bush is a good christian and attended the Church every Sunday, why didn’t he know as a christian that killing is bad? How many died in Iraq war? Is that what good christians do???

        1. mike February 11, 2015

          Did Bush say to kill in the name of God???
          So, we wereN’t attacked on 9/11? What words do the Radical Islamic Terrorist say at time of their attacks. ALLAHU AKBAR

          1. FT66 February 11, 2015

            Because he didn’t say he was killing in the name of god, doesn’t equates the life wasn’t lost. Whether one says it or doesn’t, the life which they didn’t create are claimed.

          2. mike February 11, 2015

            And no life was lost on 9/11, Right??

          3. idamag February 11, 2015

            Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are convicted war criminals. They have been convicted in absentia in Malaysia and Norway and several other countries have said they will swear out warrants for their arrest if they go to those countries. It doesn’t matter whose name the murder and torture was done in. What matters it was done.

          4. pjm19606 February 11, 2015

            Airhead! First, We were NOT attacked by Iraq or Saddam. We were attacked by a majority of Saudis. Bush brought down the WTC with the help of the Saudi Royal family.

        2. Dominick Vila February 11, 2015

          Some excuse their little “sins” by claiming bad intelligence. Can’t say that I disagree with that assessment.

      5. highpckts February 11, 2015

        Hog wash? How many times do you go to church? How many?? You are such a “good” Christian, how many times! I hardly think the number of times you attend church is a sign of what kind of person you are. Obama is far and above any “good” Christian that attends daily and hates Jews,Muslims, blacks and Mexicans!! Shovel it somewhere else!

        1. oldtack February 11, 2015

          Somewhat agree.

          In the Church aspect – when badgered by the Pharisees about what would Jesus do concerning taxation by the Romans Jesus’ reply was “render unto Caesar that which is Caesars and unto GODd that which is Gods” which to me suggests we should tend to our own selves and our relationship with GOD rather than concern ourselves with what others do or do not do.
          If there was an accurate accounting I would like ot know how many times all of the hundreds of Senators, Representatives etc. went to worship and have that broken down to what percent did it to worship and what percent did it for show.
          I personally don’t care how the elected officials conduct their religious lives. My concern is how they work in accord and Govern the Nation.

          The past 50 years I have seen very little constructively from either side of the Aisle.

          1. idamag February 12, 2015

            I also see that to mean a separation between church and state.

          2. oldtack February 12, 2015

            Yes

      6. 4sanity4all February 12, 2015

        I never keep count of how many times anyone attends church, because it is none of my business. But I do know this: my President is faithful to his wife, he is a very kind and attentive father to his daughters, and he has no children with women not his wife. He is dignified when people treat him with disrespect, and he is very well liked by small children, who are a very good judge of character. President Obama is a very excellent family man, and I am proud of the example he sets for young people. I think all that counts more than how many times he attends services.

        1. mike February 13, 2015

          Obama has been a good father, husband, no question about it.

          As to church attendance that is his choice.

          As to his leadership, he is a dismal leader, domestically and on foreign affairs. He told the world he would unite not divide but has done just the opposite. He trashed the Trust Factor with the American people with his constant lies.

          He loves the trappings of the Presidency but not the work necessary to lead.

    2. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

      For the record Dom, I did not read into your post that Obama was a regular church goer from “President Obama and his family attend church services at the St. Johns Episcopal Church in Washington DC”
      Attending church services does not in any way imply frequency.

      1. Dominick Vila February 11, 2015

        Thank you. My post was simply to highlight one of the most frequent lies made by the far right. That is, that President Obama is a Muslim. Not that such preference would bother me. Frankly, I could care less, but we all know why such a claim is made, and we all know it has absolutely nothing to do with the wisdom of prophets.

        1. Canistercook February 11, 2015

          I don’t know if Obama has any religious affiliation as I think many politicians attend church for SHOW. I just wish he was a good honest leader – our country is in need of one!

          1. highpckts February 11, 2015

            You do the best you can when you share the decision making with a bunch of bigots!!

          2. idamag February 12, 2015

            And she is lying. She let her racism slip during the campaigns.

          3. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            Good to know! 🙂

          4. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

            Maybe if he was whiter and spoke like the smirking chimp you could trust him.

          5. Canistercook February 11, 2015

            Does his skin color matter to you – it doesn’t to me!

          6. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            Well if that’s not an issue for you, I apologize. It is for so many on the right but it’s not fair to paint all of you with the same brush. It’s just such a can of mixed nuts, it’s hard to identify each with accuracy.

          7. plc97477 February 12, 2015

            The only problem with that is that their “reasons” for not liking him seem hard to fathom unless we take into account racism. No leadership, are they kidding he has done a fabulous job with others fighting him the whole way. ll of their excuses seem silly with all he has done. Must be racism.

          8. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            I agree, what’s to dislike? Considering the hurdles they set up right out of the gate and the goal of making him a one term president, their only other goal, doing away with ACA, Where are we now 56 attempts at getting rid of the ACA and Mitt is still holding his unused victory fireworks.Then they tried to find impeachable acts to no avail.
            What they mean is no republican leadership. That this man has succeeded in spite of their willingness to undermine the country just to keep him from succeeding can’t just be because he’s a Dem.

          9. Canistercook February 25, 2015

            Thank you for the apology. His lack of experience is what I am dealing with and unfortunately many seeking to replace him have the same lack on all sides. I am still waiting for someone with a lot of experience and background to step forward. Right now we don’t need a Chamberlin we need a Churchill! Racism exists both in Whites and Blacks but MLK was right and a good leader.

          10. idamag February 12, 2015

            And, didn’t sound so much like an educated man. Maybe, if he used yabetchas, and how’s that workin fer ya, they could understand him better. Maybe, if he used the phrase, “Most of our exports are going overseas,” they could clasp their hands to their chests and say, “I understand that man.”

          11. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            No doubt!!!
            The pages of Palin and Bush “isms” just keep getting longer. Although Bush has the sense to keep quiet now. and Palin has finally alienated all but most challenged. I don’t think that will keep her quiet though.

          12. bernieo February 11, 2015

            Then there is Saint Ronnie Reagan who did not go to church…..

            Any radical ideology, religious or not that wants to force its worldview on the rest of us is problematic. They don’t even have to be nationalists. Look at the violence from anarchists, communists and capitalists that were willing to support anyone they felt would protect their interests. American capitalists were more than willing to finance the Nazis or go to war with any country that dared to nationalize their own natural resources.

          13. Canistercook February 25, 2015

            What exactly is a ‘capitalist’. Someone making a lot of money somehow, like Romney, Obama, Soros, etc. Guess we should all live in caves and eat berries!

        2. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

          Precisely!

    3. highpckts February 11, 2015

      You are too kind to these buffoons!

      1. charleo1 February 11, 2015

        As the following posts will bear out, Dominick is way too kind to buffoons. But then, Dom is unfailingly even keeled. I often admire that in others, which I lack myself. But then again, I love to see someone verbally knock these ignorant weasels into the next comment board, as well.

        1. highpckts February 11, 2015

          I hear ya!!

        2. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

          LOL LOL

        3. idamag February 12, 2015

          Yes, but metaphorically, these right wing nut jobs, when it comes to facts, put their fingers in their ears and yells,”nyah,nyah, nyah, and fail to learn.

    4. 4sanity4all February 12, 2015

      The thing that I am really impressed with, though, is how President Obama lives the life of a faithful man, but never brags that he is. He loves his wife, is faithful to her, and he is very supportive of his daughters. Some people criticized him because he attended his daughter’s games rather than attend cocktail parties to try to score political points. He is kind and thoughtful, and even when people are hyper critical, he maintains his dignity.

  5. Eleanore Whitaker February 11, 2015

    What the right doesn’t get? Where to start? When you study “who” the right really is, you see just how far back into the 1930’s Tent Revivals they would love to go.

    For the right, on every level, it’s all and ONLY about “conversion.” Conversion to their rigid, mindless ideology. Conversion to their “version” of Christianity. Conversion to their ideas of “equality.” Conversion to their brutish ideas of where women fit into their misguided thinking.

    Please…if we pay attention to their Conversionista BS, we’d all go nuts. Perhaps, that’s the real intent. We all know that mentally unstable people are incapable of reality. Fantasy and turning the world into their cocoon is why some insane people are committed.

    The right is extreme. Anyone who goes to extremes is out of control by most clinical psychological parameters. So the “right” we always try to go further with their imposition of their religious beliefs. Isn’t that what Queen Mary of England did in the 15th Century when she slaughtered Protestants in order to England into a papist country?

    Reply
    1. Canistercook February 11, 2015

      Another who knows a lot of ‘rightists’ I guess!

      1. Michael Ross February 11, 2015

        It’s entirely thanks to people like you that we know so much about them.

        See, unlike your opinions of the left, our opinions of the right are not built out of sick fantasies that we would love to believe are true just because they would be convenient. Our opinions of your ilk come from direct observations of the right’s behavior.

        We didn’t imagine the Right as a bunch of religious extremists who want to tear down the wall separating Church and State. We have tens of thousands of press releases and sound bytes showing the Right in their own words calling for such.

        Yes, we ALL know a lot of “rightists.” And short-tempered, low-IQ screaming whores like yourself are only helping us know them even more.

        1. idamag February 12, 2015

          Unlike, can, some of us do pay attention to what the extreme right wing is saying.

    2. Michael Ross February 11, 2015

      Rush Limbaugh once went on Jay Leno’s show and was asked why everyone couldn’t just get along.

      Rush’s response: “Fine. You give up everything you believe in and agree with me, and we’ll get along.”

  6. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

    I no longer care what the right doesn’t get. The list is way too long. I just want to keep them and their freakish beliefs from impacting my life and that of the greater good. Most are “Sunday Christians “, those who even attend church. They profess to be Christians but following the doctrines and tenets is quite another story. They can quote the occasional bible verse when they are judging others and they drag God along with the flag out when they need to , as props. God serves a purpose when they screw up and get caught so they can say “only God can judge me” or “I’m asking for God’s forgiveness” and at funerals. Otherwise they become the American Taliban and try to impose their skewed ideas of Christianity on everyone else. One can live a perfectly honorable life in every way without religion or with a belief system other than Christianity but that’s not good enough for them.
    What they don’t get about Obama? After 6+ years, who cares?
    He’s a better human being than most of them will ever be but he’s half black and has a Muslim black father and a Christian white mother. They wrote him off for all those factors. That he’s intelligent made him uppity and an elitist.

    Reply
    1. Canistercook February 11, 2015

      Well your ‘god’ attended Rev Wright’s church because it had a big group of black voters!

      1. jmprint February 11, 2015

        sooooooooo WHAT!!! You sound like a whiny child.

        1. oldtack February 11, 2015

          And you sound like a myopic idiot.

          1. jmprint February 11, 2015

            Why, too many ooooo’s, Sorry if it offends you.

          2. oldtack February 11, 2015

            Do you mind rephrasing and clarifying your last post. In it’s present form it has no meaning.

      2. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

        My “god” ? No. You are obviously one of those dichotomous thinkers the right has an over abundance of. Because I like him, he must be a god to me, huh? You do realize that way of thinking is classified as a borderline personality disorder?
        You have no verifiable way of knowing why anyone attends any church. Having your head in a small dark place most of the time may influence your opinions though.

    2. Canistercook February 11, 2015

      You do seem to know a lot about the right wingers – or at least you think you do!

      1. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

        Should I not believe my lying eyes and ears?

        1. idamag February 12, 2015

          It is not hard, the stupider they are, the more vocal they are.

  7. idamag February 11, 2015

    It only goes to show that anything Obama says is going to be picked apart by the crazy right wing radicals. If he had only recited “The Lords Prayer,” they would have picked that apart.

    Reply
    1. FireBaron February 11, 2015

      Yeah, can you imagine the audacity of asking God to “give us this day our daily bread”? I mean, isn’t that like asking for welfare? And what about “as we forgive those who trespass against us”? You mean we gotta forgive people who done us wrong? What are we? A bunch of wimps? That’s what happens when you elect a socialist, community organizer, closet Muslim born in Kenya. There, did that sound right-wing-nutish enough?

      1. idamag February 11, 2015

        You have them pegged.

      2. oldtack February 11, 2015

        Firebaron
        By that reply I must assume you are not a Christian and not affiliated with any type of religion? Am I correct?

        1. FireBaron February 11, 2015

          Nope. Raised Roman Catholic, but currently a member of the United Methodist Church. It’s just that I have served as a “devil’s advocate” many times. I have studied scripture in many of the current translations, along with Vulgate Latin. If I had to, I could work my way through most of the Greek of the Roman Empire. My “scholarly” forays have only strengthened my personal faith. It isn’t because I have looked for a reason to believe. I have looked with reason and believe.

          1. oldtack February 11, 2015

            part of your post “as we forgive those who trespass against us”

            As Methodists we worship through Jesus, the son of GOD. In Matthew 5:44 Jesus, the son of GOD says “You have heard that it was said ‘love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I tell you:love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be sons of your Father in Heaven….Many Christians, probably myself included, tend to follow the teachings of Christ until we get our feathers ruffled then we want ot dust off the Torah and Hate you enemies and smite them kill them etc. Human nature.
            Off the subject what is you reaction to the man in North Carolina that killed two Muslim women and one Muslim man today at a University where these three were students. The Slayer then allegedly voluntarily turned himself in to the Police? That should make for a good topic on the Forum. If nothing more it gives insight ot the mindset of many people in this Nation about the threat of Radical Islam.
            Have a good day.

      3. MichelleRose3 February 12, 2015

        No, you forgot to scream, “Benghazi!”

  8. FireBaron February 11, 2015

    Gene, the comment “seriously dumb” is well applied to may of our politicians today. Many of them are proud of their ignorance and naivety in the face of world politics, but still think they know more than everyone else.

    Reply
    1. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

      One new one is proud of her hog castration abilities. That should be a real asset where she is now.

      1. oldtack February 11, 2015

        I am originally from Iowa and that woman’s statement sort of turned me off.
        I’m old – fashioned. I like women who can be effeminate regardless of their background.. My wife was born and raised in farm and ranch country. She can drive a tractor, run a combine, drive a semi and has observed and has assisted in de horning, brandin, and castrating cattle. She is a tough woman.
        But – I prefer her as a Speech Therapist and an organizer and speaker. I can envision her at the end of one of her speeches saying “and I’m an old ranch girl and if you got any cattle that need branded or castrated just call me I,m your girl. Her name is Carolyn also..

        1. Carolyn1520 February 11, 2015

          Kudos to your wife.

          1. oldtack February 11, 2015

            Thank you Carolyn. It’s sort of spooky. You talk about church, confirmation etc. and your dialogue is very good. Your name is Carolyn. My wife is Carolyn. Are you sure you two aren’t sisters by different mothers? LOL

          2. Carolyn1520 February 12, 2015

            Thank you! It’s a compliment to be compared to such a Renaissance lady. I fear all my cattle would be pets though. 🙂

          3. oldtack February 12, 2015

            My Carolyn has those too. Spoiled ones. LOL

        2. charleo1 February 11, 2015

          You know Valentine’s Day is just around the corner.
          And if I had written something as beautiful as that,
          I’d think about framing it, and giving it to her, with a
          box of candy! Well said, my friend!

          1. oldtack February 11, 2015

            Thanks charleoo1

  9. highpckts February 11, 2015

    The only thing the GOP gets is this President is black and has no business in the White House! Religion is just another playing card for them just like Ebola, Sandy Hook, etc.! They really don’t care if you worship Satan as long as you vote for them!!

    Reply
    1. Canistercook February 11, 2015

      Who cares what color his skin is? Its his lack of leadership ability that should be our concern.

      1. highpckts February 11, 2015

        Lack of leadership ability? So tell me what is your criteria for good leadership in the country? McCain, Romney, Bush? Who in your intelligent opinion, is capable of leading this country with a Congress that refuses to work based on skin color?

        1. Canistercook February 25, 2015

          Someone with a lot more than a paper degree from a college. Someone who has run a business, has experienced the world, has met world leaders, can unite people rather than divide them and can realize what are the important priorities we need dealt with. I am still looking for someone equipped to handle the job! He or she can be any color or r

          1. jmprint February 26, 2015

            President Obama has been running the United States for the last five years, how much more experience do you want? And doing a damn good job, always working hard while dodging sword form the right.

      2. Michael Ross February 11, 2015

        Obama is the first president in history who has had to deal with an entire House of government actively trying to cause the country to slip into financial and structural ruin.

        And yet we are still here. I’d say his leadership is spot on.

        What you’re REALLY upset about is the fact that he’s making George “Divinely Appointed to the Presidency” Bush, as well as all of the party-before-country crooks, zealots and other such wannabe oligarchs that you continue to so gleefully whore yourself out to, look stupid by comparison.

        You and your ilk have been screaming your heads off about Obama secretly wanting America to fail for six years, yet even with you and your ilk actively trying to cause America to fail too, that hasn’t happened.

        Obama has been an excellent leader, and the fact that you subhuman America-hating cowards are still whining about him is all the proof we need.

  10. Frank KIng February 11, 2015

    The President caught a lot of flack from the right wing for his remarks at the “prayer breakfast”. Prayer is a meaningless activity with no value except in the mind of the one making the prayer anytime, anyplace. Anyway, religious fundamentallsm in any form is a threat to freedom by definition and example. Just research the annals of history and the fact that religious fantasy trumps common sense and rational thinking around the world today.

    Reply
    1. Canistercook February 11, 2015

      All religions are a threat, some much more than others. But it does allow men to ‘control the flock’, especially the females.

      1. jmprint February 26, 2015

        Which is exactly what the tea party house & senate are doing, trying to control the females. They are scared of females and latinos.

  11. Canistercook February 11, 2015

    What I learned was two wrongs make a ‘right’ at least from a leftists point of view, even if one wrong happened many many years ago. And this man is supposedly our ‘leader’!

    Reply
    1. pjm19606 February 11, 2015

      Your comment proves you did not comprehend a thing the President said. You just heard what you wanted to hear.

    2. Michael Ross February 11, 2015

      G.O.P. projectionism rears its ugly head again.

      Did you not read the article? It’s far-right fanatics like Fleming who want to go to war with the entire religion, and Obama who is explicitly saying that the most important thing is that we do not stoop to ISIL’s level.

      Sorry, tea-bagger, but your attempts to confuse things have failed horribly. Even your own brethren are not fooled — they’re just playing along because they follow the same extremist mantra as you.

      1. Canistercook February 25, 2015

        Well I doubt if you even know who Chamberlin was and know about his attempts to make peace with Hitler!

        1. Sand_Cat March 5, 2015

          I doubt if you even know what that has to do with this article or the comment to which it was an alleged reply.

      2. Canistercook February 25, 2015

        Well thank goodness Ike stooped to Hitler’s level and took him out.

        1. Sand_Cat March 4, 2015

          Yeah. Where is Ike now that we REALLY need him. Think he’d “stoop” to the level of today’s neo-Nazis – er – Republicans?

    3. EriktheRed February 11, 2015

      And again, another stupid wingnut totally doesn’t grasp the point.

      1. idamag February 12, 2015

        Some of these trolls are white supremists and have let it slip over the years. Two, who are not on here, today, are nazies.

    4. Sand_Cat March 4, 2015

      Obviously you haven’t learned very much. Try kindergarten: they have plenty of ignorant people with underdeveloped reasoning powers just like you.

  12. tdm3624 February 11, 2015

    The next president should forego the prayer breakfast, pardoning a turkey on Thanksgiving day, lighting the Christmas tree, and all other useless ceremonies. Focus on the job instead.

    Reply
    1. angelsinca February 12, 2015

      You can’t expect a president to spend ALL of his time trying to figure what the job is supposed to be.

      1. Michael Ross February 14, 2015

        No offense, but I don’t consider it unreasonable to expect the President to proverbially be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

        Don’t get upset because president we had before Obama (the guy you schmucks said was “divinely appointed to the Presidency”) couldn’t do that.

        1. angelsinca February 15, 2015

          I might be a schmuck for wasting time on a liberal blog, but I don’t know of anyone who ever said a Obama was ‘divinely appointed’. People may have been deceived into voting for him, but no sparks were showered from the heavens. That’s for sure.

          1. Michael Ross February 15, 2015

            Thank you, tea-bagger, for misinterpreting that by such a phenomenally wide margin that it cannot possibly be chalked up to anything other than deliberate projectionism by a whore to the G.O.P.

            It was Bush that declared himself “divinely appointed” to the Presidency. AKA: The president we had before Obama.

            I thought I’d made that clear, but once again, you tea-bagger whores are still more than eager to miss the point and try to project every single last one of your vices and weaknesses onto the Democrats, regardless of how futile your chances of actually pulling it off may be.

            Go back to whatever pit in Hell you spawned out of. From now on, America is reserved only for real human beings.

          2. angelsinca February 17, 2015

            Please don’t get all mushy in public…it’s embarrassing. People will talk.

            When you write something like, “Obama (the guy you schmucks said was “divinely appointed to the Presidency”)” , you should consider better word placement and punctuation to avoid being misunderstood.

          3. Michael Ross February 18, 2015

            It never ceases to amaze me how you tea-bagger whores think it is well within your power to flat out lie about something, in the exact same place as the thing you are lying about.

            For those of you too lazy to scroll back up one page, here is the full, unedited quote angelsinca is pretending to be responding to:

            “Don’t get upset because THE PRESIDENT WE HAD BEFORE OBAMA (the guy you schmucks said was “divinely appointed to the Presidency”) couldn’t do that.”

            Game over, whore. Return back to the pit in Hell you spawned from.

          4. angelsinca February 18, 2015

            If you hadn’t placed the parenthesized remarks after “Obama” you wouldn’t have been misunderstood. Thanks for the irrational display.

          5. Michael Ross February 19, 2015

            So it’s my fault you’re a fucking moron?

            Now mind you that I do not think you’re a moron. I think you’re acting as one because you A) didn’t like what I had to say, B) tried to misinterpret it because you couldn’t think of any other way to respond to it, C) got caught red handed, and D) are now desperately clinging to the notion that whining and acting stupid will somehow allow you to weasel your way out of this.

            Nope. Game over, whore.

          6. angelsinca February 19, 2015

            Another control freak loses it. I openly suggest you may find a more concerned audience in a bag of Cheetos. Please go away now.

          7. Sand_Cat March 4, 2015

            Well, in fact, you’re the interloper here. But then, you guys are endlessly amusing. What would I do if you weren’t here to confirm the worst said about conservatives on this site? To be fair, you sound downright rational compared to most, but the denial of reality still comes through.

          8. angelsinca March 4, 2015

            Thank you for allowing me to use your internet. Lol.

          9. Sand_Cat March 5, 2015

            Wow, that’s clever!
            You come here to taunt and gloat over alleged Democratic misconduct, then have the gall to tell someone who gives you what you ask for to “go away.”

            Sorry if I offended your diginity.

            By the way, what do your posts have to do with the article? Seems to me you used to be quite loquacious (or the equivalent in written communication) when it came to religion. Don’t you want to tell us how the president is a Muslim and a supporter of terrorists because he’s trying to avoid arousing the enmity of a billion or so people, most of who have little or nothing to do with terrorism?

          10. angelsinca March 5, 2015

            No! Shame on YOU for suggesting anyone would be an ‘interloper’ an any open site. You forget about the Hebdo sacrifices and the gathering of world leaders allying for free speech already? Of course you did. So did that apologist president you are so proud of.

          11. Sand_Cat March 6, 2015

            Give me a break. Yeah, Im as evil as Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, and George W. Bush. The freedom of speech of every American – well, every “true American” – is endangered every time I turn on my computer. All you poor, helpless little right-wing tough guys just wilt before me.
            What a load of crap! Drop your moronic holier than thou false outrage. You are free to come and write whatever absurdities – or even good sense sometimes – you want at any time, day or night, just as I am. If you don’t like it when you get back what you give, you are free to leave, but no one – NO ONE – makes you either come here or leave, so quit the whining.

            Oh, and you make the mistake of all the wingers here. Just because I dispute what I see as the blatant and vile falsehoods many of your friends join you in repeating about the man, I think he leaves a lot to be desired, too, and if you weren’t so busy making up “facts” about him, you might actually read about it here. I’ll say it again: I don’t select my heroes from the political classes. If your guys (in Congress and elsewhere in government) didn’t keep making him look better by comparison every minute of every day by their own petty, dishonest, and malicious actions, those of us who consider him only the best we could do might actually have time to take stock. The one Republican in the last couple of decades who actually looked like he might have presidential potential – John Houseman – went down to an ignominious defeat because he was too reluctant to jump on the anti-science, pro-ignorance platform advocated by his rivals.

          12. angelsinca March 5, 2015

            The ‘go away’ suggestion to SOMEONE ELSE was to get them off my back. I don’t care much for relentless personal attack.

          13. Sand_Cat March 6, 2015

            Haven’t banished or censored anyone in my life. I’m all for letting you guys show how malicious, dishonest, and delusional you are. Aren’t you trying to do what you accuse me of by that remark?
            Back when they used to ban people from this site, I never asked for or supported such actions, and wrote several posts condemning the practice. I don’t recall your suggesting anyone be banned, either, so why don’t we drop that absurd line of dispute? If you don’t like the way I say I don’t like what you say, then answer in kind instead of wimping out and trying to accuse me of censorship, which I have NEVER supported.

          14. angelsinca March 8, 2015

            I’d rather ignore you, which I will. You have the annoying habit of turning every comment into a personal attack on the commentator. You’ll have to direct your disparaging remarks elsewhere.

          15. Sand_Cat March 9, 2015

            You just don’t like my pointing it out when you’re full of it, but feel free.

          16. Sand_Cat March 4, 2015

            It was Bush, and you know it. Yes, your irony was supposed to be funny and telling at the same time, I guess, but it actually just makes you look more foolish.

      2. Sand_Cat March 4, 2015

        True: your man GWB obviously spent none.

        1. angelsinca March 6, 2015

          GWB wasn’t ‘my man’. But, during the final 2 years of his presidency, as the left hammered on him relentlessy, I was deeply disappointed by his failure to defend his actions against the onslaught of accusations.

          1. Sand_Cat March 6, 2015

            Once again, there is no “Left” to speak of in America at this point, so your whole argument suffers. Maybe it finally dawned on him that slaughtering ill-armed and ill-trained Iraqis, trading lots of patriotic but naive and ignorant American lives to do it, while unleashing the firestorm we still see in Iraq, really didn’t make him look big and tough and macho like he thought it would, and – for once – kept his mouth shut instead of saying something stupid in defense of the indefensible.
            Your last attempt to speak in his place wasn’t so hot from what I recall, either, but – by all means – go ahead and tell us again how wise and far-sighted it was to make an unprovoked attack on a nation that presented no threat to us but had a dictator who kept under control the elements who now make his dictatorship – brutal as it was – look like “the good old days” by comparison. Tell us how great his pursuit – if we can dignify it with that word – was of the alleged mastermind of that other little thing that happened in September just to remind us all that George and Dick were on the job, protecting us from terrorism, as all the right-wing idiots claim.

            While you’re at it, tell us how his appointments of incompetents and others religiously opposed to regulation to regulatory positions in the financial industry showed such wisdom in 2008. Then you could cover the appointment of right-wing hacks to the Supreme Court.

  13. pm1 February 11, 2015

    Bill Clinton, for 8 plus years. Barrack Obama, 6 years and counting. Hillary Clinton, 14 years and counting. Republicans are radical extremists that hate and attack anyone that isn’t a like minded Republican. Sound familiar?

    Reply
  14. rustacus21 February 11, 2015

    Noooo!!! Surely you jest Gene?! I’m not sure where, but in Scripture, it says there’s ‘… nothing new under the sun…’ History being as short as it is w/humans on the life scale means we have lots more to learn & a long, LONG way to go before learning it. Religion, faith & politics not withstanding, conservative have gotten lots wrong over the last 34 years, having taken its toll on the nation. It’s time that people in America pray for guidance on what it means & how to proceed – as to the myriad of challenges we face – in accepting wrong-headed assessments of these very same conservatives…

    Reply
    1. Sand_Cat March 4, 2015

      I think prayer has already been tried and failed spectacularly, as I guess you know.

      1. rustacus21 March 6, 2015

        … but w/out Faith & prayer, do U really believe there would be an America? That like the nation’s founders who, in times similar to NOW, when the odds seemed insurmountable, b/c of the length of time they had already been in the fight, that they didn’t feel dejected & want to quit? OF COURSE THEY DID!!! But just as then, we can’t give up now. Not only that, we have to be prepared for victory & once the nation is remade, in a similar fashion as being re-born to live a life of complete FAITH, we stay vigilant & shore up our Democracy & Civic Culture so that 1000 years will have to pass before we forget why we declared independence, ended the cruelty of racist slavery, ended the evil corruption bribery defiling the sanctity of our Democracy, so that money buys the commodities we need – NOT the representative we send to craft the common good for all citizens – EQUALLY – w/out exception or special PAID exemptions. Read this (https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/14befc3d8fa58cd5) & understand – the tide has already changed!!! Faith is the hope in things YET UNSEEN… Keep that in mind as U read the above article – & the rest of U as well…

        1. Sand_Cat March 6, 2015

          I wish I could believe everything’s going to turn around. I seriously doubt that, just as I see that most of the “prayer” going on now, and most of the people who invoke “god” frequently are a very large part of the problems threatening to bring this whole nation crashing down. If I were to pray, I’d ask for better separation of church and state, and for protection from all of the various gods’ self-identified followers. I’ll read the article, and I wish you well, but maybe you should try reading The Culture of Make Believe by Derrick Jensen. He draws some interesting conclusions about the “message of Jesus” which I think hit home better than almost anything else I’ve read. It’s NOT an attack on “Jesus” (I prefer his real name), but some Christians would no doubt find it disturbing. The “Christians” I’m concerned about would of course dismiss it or fail to get the point.

        2. Sand_Cat March 6, 2015

          Link didn’t work for me. What are you trying to direct me to?

  15. Michael Ross February 11, 2015

    The only thing missing here is that the Republicans are no longer nationalists. They are beholden to their party above all else and have proven, time and time again, that they will gladly throw the entire country under the bus if they believe doing so would be to their party’s interest.

    Reply
    1. angelsinca February 12, 2015

      You aren’t talking about Republicans, that’s obvious. Probably just the elected politicians that can’t seem to agree on anything, much less unilaterally along party lines. The notion of throwing an entire country under the bus only seems likely if they intended to “transform the very fabric of the nation”. Sounds familiar.

      1. Michael Ross February 14, 2015

        Judging by how eager they have been to role back voting rights whenever possible, I’d say that’s a fitting description of the G.O.P. party platform.

        1. angelsinca February 14, 2015

          Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Expecting voters to identify themselves with a valid ID is not rolling back voter rights. Eliminating checks and balances seems like an invite to abuse. Might as well bus people across state lines to vote outside their precint.

          1. Michael Ross February 15, 2015

            No, but deliberately cherry-picking WHICH IDs are acceptable for voting is not.

            It also, by the way, is not acceptable to only accept IDs that you must pay a fee to acquire — the modern day equivalent of a voting tax.

            Sorry, tea-bagger, but your attempts to disguise your assault on democracy as honest concern for its well-being have once again failed miserably.

          2. angelsinca February 15, 2015

            I wasn’t aware of that, that I am a tea-bagger. Sorry, but your insult missed the mark. By your logic, people that need health care that can’t afford it are being targeted by the ACA that require you pay for it – a health tax.

          3. Sand_Cat March 4, 2015

            Sorry, but many registered voters who have voted for years may not have the necessary ID, and may have great difficulty obtaining it. Many of the sponsors of these bills to prevent “fraud” openly boasted of their purpose: to assure GOP victories.
            You may – and probably will – continue to close your eyes to the obvious, but that doesn’t change the facts.

          4. angelsinca March 5, 2015

            The supposed ‘many’ who have sponsored voter ‘supression’ bills in order to ‘assure gop victories’ should be prosecuted. Why haven’t they been?

          5. Sand_Cat March 5, 2015

            Why don’t you ask the Republicans who control the states where they are: North Carolina, Texas, Pennsylvania, and others?

          6. angelsinca March 5, 2015

            Since ‘they’ are offending YOUR sensibilities, you should confront THEM, not me. I already shared with you my disgust of the practice of using legislative leverage for voting advantage. It should be discouraged as much as voter fraud.

          7. Sand_Cat March 6, 2015

            You’re the one who asked, not me. Why should I waste the effort to write to bigots and lunatics who would at best simply laugh it off as they have all other criticisms?

    2. idamag February 12, 2015

      I could not have said it better.

  16. Doc Lakes February 13, 2015

    At this rate, Obama’s going to destroy the democrats as a viable US political party.

    Reply
    1. clcman February 13, 2015

      Yeah, the Democrats are sunk. I guess in modern America, sanity, rationality, intelligence, science, facts, reality, tolerance (AKA freedom), separation of church and state (AKA freedom of religion), individual civil rights, respect and math are all losing positions. Who would ever vote for people who don’t despise over a billion people simply because of their religion?

      1. Michael Ross February 14, 2015

        Sadly, your attempts at sarcasm are not going to compute with these miserable wastes of flesh.

        The G.O.P. has a grand tradition of projectionism: Of accusing the Democrats of the exact same vices and weaknesses that they themselves are guilty of.

        Ergo, when you tell a tea-bagger that an unnamed party is openly hostile to facts, tolerance and civil rights, he will automatically assume you are talking about the Democrats.

    2. Michael Ross February 14, 2015

      You democracy-hating pricks have been chanting that for six years and counting, and it still hasn’t magically been willed into reality.

      Get over yourself. Either catch up with the rest of us in the 21st century or drop dead along with the 19th century you whores preferred to live in.

      1. charleo1 February 15, 2015

        They have no point of reference on which to draw. Other than the fundamentalist propaganda mills they attend as churches, or the local bars. Where they’ve heard this same claptrap for years. Now, between Fox, Clear Channel Radio, and the internet, they’re convinced the entire Country is finally on board with this horse manure. And that they are finally going to get their rightful turn, once the Liberal Welfare System, and big evil Federal Gov. is hacked into insignificance. Personally,
        I think they deserve pity. As their foundation has been eroded
        out from under them years ago, In terms of quality education,
        and economic opportunities. As their rural hometowns they grew up in, are falling apart right before their eyes. And
        they are scared, clutching their guns, apocalypse ready, and ripe for the picking. For this moralistic, down the rat hole, anti-liberal malarky, about the Godless Liberal, displeasing Jesus, and ruining an America that hasn’t existed for 60 years, if it ever did. If you travel to small town rural America. The Right Wing’s remaining stronghold, it’s literally all one hears. Ubiquitous. Almost N. Korean, in that it’s everywhere one turns.

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