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The Supreme Court’s Next Opportunity To Kill Obamacare

Memo Pad Politics

The Supreme Court’s Next Opportunity To Kill Obamacare


Nov. 7 (Bloomberg View) — Thought you were done with the U.S. Supreme Court and health care? Think again. The Court has agreed to review the question of whether the federally created health insurance exchanges violate the law’s expectation that the exchanges be created by a state. Reading the tea leaves can only tell you so much about what the Court is going to do. But from the standpoint of the Barack Obama administration, there is reason to be curiously concerned that the president’s signature legislative accomplishment is in jeopardy once again.

The legal arguments are a bit arcane, and I laid them out in a column this summer. To give you the bare minimum, the case involves the public exchanges that the Affordable Care Act anticipated would be set up by the states and therefore described as “established by the state” in the law. Only 14 states plus the District of Columbia have created such exchanges. As a result, the federal government established exchanges on the states’ behalf. Clever lawyers seeking to block operation of the ACA argued that the exchanges are illegal because they were not established by states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit rejected the argument in King v. Burwell. A divided panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit accepted the argument in Halbig v. Burwell by a 2-1 vote.

Here’s where things get technical — and interesting. The Obama administration had to make a strategic decision of whether they would appeal the D.C. Circuit decision against them. Or, instead, ask the D.C. Circuit to review the case itself through the mechanism of all its members sitting together as a single panel, en banc.

Somewhat controversially, the administration decided to ask for en banc review. It’s reasoning presumably was that it wanted to avoid the Supreme Court if possible. While the D.C. Circuit was considering whether to accept the case en banc, the administration could argue to the Supreme Court to hold off any appeals by the challengers who lost in the Fourth Circuit. If the D.C. Circuit were to reverse the panel, then the Obama administration could then have asked the Supreme Court not to accept an appeal by the challengers who lost in the Fourth Circuit.

This strategy was plausible — but it didn’t pay off. Without waiting for the D.C. Circuit to rehear the case, the Supreme Court agreed to hear the appeal from the Fourth Circuit brought by the law’s challengers.

What does this decision reveal, if anything? It takes four votes of Supreme Court justices to agree to take a case, so there is no guarantee that a decision to grant a review will dictate a particular outcome. Nevertheless, in this situation, it seems probable that the four liberal justices would have strongly preferred to wait for the D.C. Circuit in the hopes of avoiding the issue, as the Obama administration must also have wished. It seems safe to assume that none of those four justices would have agreed to hear the case at this stage.

The same cannot be said of Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito and Anthony Kennedy. These justices all voted to strike down the individual mandate, which would have gutted the ACA. Presumably their hostility to Obamacare’s legality is unabated. It seems highly probable that those four would have cast votes to hear the case at this stage. By doing so, they avoided a scenario in which the D.C. Circuit reversed its panel, leaving no dispute among the appellate courts on the legality of the federally created exchanges. For them, a vote to take the case now is a strong signal that they would like to block the exchanges and sink Obamacare with this second legal torpedo.

The $64,000 question is: What about Chief Justice John Roberts? In 2012, Roberts split the baby. He voted to uphold the individual mandate and thus avoided banner headlines screaming that the Roberts court had struck down Obamacare. At the same time, Roberts blocked the element of Obamacare that would have essentially forced states to expand Medicaid. This part of the decision drastically reduced the scope of coverage under the law and therefore the law’s impact.

What will Roberts do now? He took substantial heat from conservative critics who were astonished and horrified to see the lifetime conservative betray the cause at its moment of potential judicial triumph. One possible interruption is that, scarred by this experience, Roberts would now go along with the conservative tide. The continuing unpopularity of Obamacare in opinion polls combined with the obvious weakness of President Obama after the midterm elections would provide some support for this possibility.

The other possibility is that Roberts will not deviate from his judicial restraint centrism. To strike down Obamacare now, having upheld it before, might look like opportunism or wishy-washyness. Given how weak the law increasingly appears, it would be a high price for Roberts to pay before the judgment of history if he now struck it down. Indeed, such a decision would vitiate his earlier restraints.

What seems almost certain is that the other conservative justices have decided to put Roberts to the test. They will not let him get away without standing up and being counted on Obamacare once again.  They have nothing to lose in any case by taking the gamble. For better or worse, the rest of us will be along for the ride. Stand by for a long six months of speculation while this case gets briefed and argued. A decision will come by the end of June. Its déjà vu all over again.

Photo: OZinOH via Flickr

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  1. DAVE in VA November 10, 2014

    Obama Care Architect Jonathan Gruber admits to deceiving Americans to pass the Health Care Law.http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/11/10/obamacare-architect-admits-deceiving-americans-pass-law

    1. Independent1 November 10, 2014

      And there you go again posting that right-wing bastion of lies, a Faux News related article based on distortions of the truths and outright lies. You really don’t expect that anyone on this blog aside from your low IQ troll friends are going to even bother accessing that website are you??? Because if so, you’re clearly wasting your time!!!

      1. DAVE in VA November 10, 2014

        It’s a shame that you live in this far leftwing so called news site and put down anything that differs from your opinion. This one is from The Western Journalism news site.http://www.westernjournalism.com/shock-video-obamacare-architect-admits-the-law-passed-only-because-america-was-deceived/
        You can go ahead and click on the links that I have provided for you. They are You Tube videos, and we all know how the left like you tube videos. {Benghazi Ring a Bell}
        Last week you and I where talking about Obama care and how my rates are changing at work. Well on 01-01-2015 they are going from $2,000 to $ 5,000 deductible for the individual plan.
        Don’t bother yourself with replying to me. Because I can care less what your opinion is. I only want facts, it helps the IQ.

        1. Independent1 November 10, 2014

          First of all, I didn’t pick a link. I posted a bona fide news article from CNN about the success of ACA in Arizona. You obviously live in your own RWNJ la la land.

          And just where do you suppose all the right-wing wackos who put together fake videos that down Obama and the Dems post them??? On YOU TUBE IDIOT!!

          You Tube is filled with FAKE RIGHT-WING EXTREMIST VIDEOS!!! GET REAL!!

          And if you’re stupid enough to accept that obvious con job insurance policy that your Texas employer is trying to cram down your throat for next year – you’re even dumber than I think. If what you’re telling us is in fact the truth, you’re being hogswaggled by your employer’s insurance carrier!!!

          Wise up and find an alternative policy on VA’s ACA Exchange website on your own. There have been several recent articles in the news stating that people can find Obamacare policies via the exchange that are cheaper and provide better coverage than what their employers try to foist on them.

          1. highpckts November 11, 2014

            You are talking to walls! Haven’t you learned by now that the GOP NEVER lies and NEVER takes advantage of us lowlifes? To argue with them is useless because if it isn’t “right wing” facts, they are not true facts.

          2. idamag November 11, 2014

            These are usually people whose credo is, “I got mine, to hell with you.” especially those fortunate enough to have single payer and never have to worry about medical bills – Medicare recipients.

          3. angelsinca November 11, 2014

            The problem with single payer is that it probably involves the government running the program. Looking at the VA, this isn’t such a swell idea.

          4. angelsinca November 12, 2014

            Sounds silly coming from the people that would rather put you in jail than to allow opposing viewpoints. With 2/3 of Americans obese, they bring on their own health issues. Forcing healthy ones to pay for the poor lifestyle choices IS indeded kind of selfish.

          5. angelsinca November 11, 2014

            Before the ACA, most employers ‘foisted’ better and cheaper coverage than Obamcare now offers.

          6. Independent1 November 11, 2014

            They may have offered cheaper policies but those were either bare bones or actually virtually worthless policies that covered very little and had very high deductibles with low lifetime maximums.

            Fact is, that since ACA was enacted in 2010, THE INCREASE in premiums since that time has been at a far slower pace than they had been rising; some insurance analysts in 2013 estimated that had ACA not been enacted, premiums by the end of 2013 could have been 25-45% higher than they already were.

            What that means is, that someone who was paying $600/mo at the end of 2013, would have been paying $750-900/month had ACA not been enacted.

            And even for 2015, by a large majority, the increases for 2015 are being projected at about 1/2 the rate that was normal for increases prior to ACA; and there are actually some companies that will be reducing premiums because they either miscalculated who well ACA would bring down healthcare costs or they realize the premiums they offered for the 2014 enrollment were not competitive; or because of both.

          7. angelsinca November 12, 2014

            Those ‘slower rates of increase’ are based on the rapid rise in rates when the ppACA was anticipated. Sure, some people are now paying less, for LESS coverage. For the SAME coverage, people can no longer afford it. Thanks a lot. I was forced to get medical care through the VA this year. The costs are great compared to what the ACA what have cost me. It took me TEN MONTHS to get an appointment for a podiatrist. Before Obamacare, the wait would have been about 2-3 days. Thanks a lot. Your ACA is really working well.

          8. Independent1 November 12, 2014

            More unadulterated Garbage!! I’m not responding to an absolute moron like you because I think you have the brains to understand, but just so other posters on the NM don’t buy into you’re outright lies designed for only one purpose – to harass the “honest” posters on the NM.

            You and your ilk are nothing but absolute lowlifes!!

            The rate decreases over the past 4 years are THE LOWEST RATE INCREASES IN HEALTHCARE PREMIUMS OVER THE PAST 17 YEARS!!!

            It’s hard for me to describe how much loathing I have for you and the rest of your filthy troll buddies. You are absolutely despicable lowlifes intent only one purpose here on the NM TO HARASS!!!!!!!!

            Sometimes the 1st Amendment is just wrong – people like you and Faux News and Rush Limbaugh and the many other right-wing wackos who do nothing but spew lies and distortions should be THROWN IN JAIL FOR YOUR OUTRIGHT BLATANT LYING!!!!

          9. angelsinca November 12, 2014

            Sorry that you feel harassed by the truth. We were told (among other lies) that health care costs would go DOWN with the ACA, not SLOW down. If you were honest, you would look at the premium increases from just before Phase One implementation of the ACA (mandatory coverage for 26 year olds on parent;’s plans). Those 40%+ increases are included in the 17 year average you cite. I know it’s easier to chastise and ridicule and accuse what you are incapable of accepting, but you are going to have to look beyond your biased sources to get all of the truth..

          10. Independent1 November 12, 2014

            More lies!! The increase rates we’re talking about were tabulated for the 15 years PRIOR TO ACA EVEN BEING ENACTED!!



          11. angelsinca November 12, 2014

            You avoid the subject, make claims without citation, continue to be rude, call me names repeatedly and now promise to never to respond. Thank you. I won’t miss the CAPS LOCK either. 🙂

          12. DAVE in VA November 12, 2014

            angelsinca, this is what they do on this site to anyone who disagrees with then.http://www.bestofbeck.com/wp/activism/saul-alinskys-12-rules-for-radicals

          13. angelsinca November 12, 2014

            “They may have offered cheaper policies but those were either bare bones or actually virtually worthless policies that covered very little and had very high deductibles”.

            Based on personal experience, this is pure BS. I had a great plan at $356/mo for a family of two. Our annual deductibles were negligible, less then dental. That same coverage with Obamacrap is over $1k/mo with $5k deductibles. Whoever is fueling those lies about the ACA replacing ‘inferior’ plans ought to be treated the same as the cheats that committed the fraud and deception to pass the flawed scheme.

      2. Jonathan Miller November 10, 2014

        What I hear is, “Bok! Bok! Boooaakk!” If you are scared, just say so. When a man is wrong and is not big enough to admit it, then he is a very small, small man, indeed. The size of a chicken, perhaps…

    2. Daniel Jones November 10, 2014

      Again, I have flagged your “comment” as it is a goddamned lie passed along from Faux to you and by you on here.

      I’ll repeat myself. The story is crap. It comes from a network show designed to comfort the public by LYING to them. They have the second lowest truthfulness rating of any purported news program, and the only reason it’s not number one is the inclusion of The Rush Limbaugh Show.

      1. DAVE in VA November 10, 2014

        That’s a shame that you flagged my comment. You don’t like free speech. That’s sad that you cant watch a video of someone admitting that they had to lie to get a bill passed.

        1. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

          If you post a lie that cannot EVER be proven in a court of law, why bother to post it? Propagandists do this as mind control games in the pathetic hope no one will ever dare prove a lie is a lie.

          Why post what you know is a lie?

      2. DAVE in VA November 10, 2014

        And by the way, I flagged you also.

      3. Jonathan Miller November 10, 2014

        Whatsamatter, moron? The man is talking on film about how the lack of transparency was a great help to deceive everyone and lead to single payer after a highly anticipated crisis. Who’re you gonna believe, your lying eyes and ears or the Democrat Party Hooligans?

        1. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

          How much do you profit from your Wall Street HMO investments Jonny Boy? Nice that you think you should have affordable healthcare.

          The GOP plan was to resurrect Bush’s 2005 HSA by calling them FSAs (Flexible Saving Accounts) where in you can save up to $2500 a year to use for your healthcare costs. One care accident, a trip to an ER and where the hell will that $2500 get you?

          I’m so tired of you right wing GOP bulls always making up excuses and stories to support your almighty gods attitudes. Grow the hell up already.

    3. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

      Dave…What’s the matter? Virginia doesn’t profit enough from being the No. 1 military industrialist state in the union? So now Virginians want the rest of us to end up with triple the cost of OUR premiums so you little pigs in VA don’t have to pay for your own healthcare?

      1. DAVE in VA November 11, 2014

        Eleanore, You sound like Charlie Brown’s Mother…YOU are not making any sense. This is what you sound like! @#$#^^%^&^%^*&*^*&**)(*()_(“”_)()**&%&^*&^*&^%*&(^(*&(%*&^^*^%$$$$$$$$.

        1. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

          Dave…As a swaggering, drawling “y’all all” redneck, You sound like the typical red state trough feeder of blue state tax dollars. Your state, VA, gets back double in tax dollars for the lousy $1 “y’all all” pay.

          I don’t make sense to a redneck whose brain is overloaded with male testosterone he can’t control. Try not spitting it out. A frothing, drawling lunatic like you isn’t a credit to VA. Grow the hell up.

          Facts you refuse to admit can be proven at the GAO website. Your state lives off MY tax dollars. Time for you Lil Abners to get the hell off your asses and stop pretending that your porches, Daisy Mae and your hound dogs are signs of education.

          1. DAVE in VA November 11, 2014

            Eleanore… Bless your heart.

          2. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

            It’s not my “heart” you need to bless, chump. It’s all those NJ tax dollars that keep VA in military defense funding.

          3. DAVE in VA November 11, 2014

            I hope that you can take the time out of your day today and thank a veteran on this veterans day today.

    4. idamag November 11, 2014

      Faux news has been chastised over and over for misinformation. Pick another source.

  2. Tom Highway November 11, 2014

    The more that people find out about Obamacare, the more they realize it’s going to hurt people.

    1. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

      Prove it in a court of law or stop your lying. The more people find out that Aetna, United Healthcare, AIG and Prudential are your biggest investment funds, the more we intend to insure you lose every dime you earn in profit from the sick and dying. NO idle threat there greedhead.

      You’ve got 2 years to stop with the excuses for all that obstruction. The great thing about the GOP having a majority? Put up or shut up. Now, the GOP cannot blame it all on the Dems. Now, the GOP better get busy or they will never see another House or Senate Majority for a long, long time.

      1. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

        Whoever you are I cannot afford my new premium effective January 1. I am not lying my new premium will be 20 % higher than last year, not the usual 6 % I saw before the ACA. Someone has to pay for all the subsidies and I guess it will be working people like me. Go ahead and bash me it is what I expect.

        1. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

          Just who do you think was paying for all of those 10 million who now have healthcare insurance they can afford before the ACA?

          You’re so worried about subsidies we can’t afford? Maybe you need to get on the phone to your GOP House Big spenders. How does that $14 billion to Big Oil as an annual subsidies bother you?

          People like you make me sick. You are okay with huge tax subsidies to Koch Industries but healthcare people can afford? Pretty skewed thinking.

          1. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

            You are right I guess all of the taxes I pay every year will be going down now since more people have health care and this will make up for icreased premiums. Your thinking is skewed and you are a fool and I am not a republican. Just a hard working American.

          2. highpckts November 11, 2014

            Do you work 3 minimum wage jobs to keep your family? Do you wonder where your next meal is coming from? Do you have a roof over your head, drive a decent car, have a job? Most of us are hard working Americans so please spare us the patriotic malarkey. God, you people are so selfish and single minded!

          3. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

            What I have are marketable skills. I am not selfish but you think you know everything so keep up the good work.

          4. highpckts November 11, 2014

            I am far from knowing everything but what I do know is not everyone is lucky enough to have “marketable” skills. Yet you are smug enough to think that you owe nothing to your fellow man! You got yours right?

          5. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

            I did not say that I owe nothing to my fellow man as you say. Just how much do I owe? Also I do help people when I can and I don’t need someone like you judging me. And I earned mine.

          6. highpckts November 11, 2014

            Oh you “earned” yours. Seems to me you are just a tad too defensive!

        2. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

          You can’t afford your new premium? Well why don’t I cry buckets of tears for you. Do you smoke? Own an SUV? Buy your dinners at the local pizzeria or Mickey D’s? Then you need to learn to live within YOUR, not MY means.

          That’s the problem with today’s Great White Angry Middle Aged Twerpie Generation…they want to live like they earn $1 million a year. Champagne appetites on beer pocketbooks.

          Sorry if senior citizens are not going to support your asses for the rest of your lives.

          If your insurance premium is too high, is there some reason you can’t do what everyone else does? …Shop around for one you CAN afford?

          Seniors on fixed incomes do this all the time. So can you.

          1. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

            You make all kinds of assumptions about things you know nothing about. I feel sorry for you but you can’t be helped. As for do I drive an SUV and all that other crap you spoke of I do what I can afford which is take care of myself and family and help others where I can. There are not a lot of options in this new healthcare law and paying for things that I do not need or ever have is not something that I think kindly of. I guess in your world someone that works 50 hours a week doesn’t deserve to do anything except pay, pay, pay to the government. I am not asking for you to cry for me just have your government stay out of my business because I pay my fair share..

          2. highpckts November 11, 2014

            I wish I could get the government stay out of “your” business so you wouldn’t have to wear seatbelts, drive on the highways, go to state parks, get paid a “minimum” wage, etc. Small things that dolts like you take for granted are supported by the federal government! Because you think you can’t afford insurance well we will just let the poor and disadvantaged go without also just to please you!!

          3. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

            Just when I thought that I had heard every dumb comment possible then along comes you. I thought we were talking about health care and now we are onto the highways. Please keep on track.

          4. highpckts November 11, 2014

            Are you really that stupid not to understand examples when you see them? Geezus I guess you are really obtuse! You want the Government out of your life then you better stay in your cave and don’t avail yourself of ANY public services and that includes the ACA.

          5. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

            Listen closely this time. I am talking about healthcare you seem to not be able to grasp this very simple concept. I have had my fill of stupid for today. High pockets, keep your hands out of my pockets.

          6. highpckts November 11, 2014

            Well I hope you don’t talk to yourself! There is enough stupid in this world.

          7. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

            This is strange but talking to you is almost like talking to myself. Don’t you have a job to go to? I need to get back to mine so that I can contribute to society.

          8. highpckts November 11, 2014

            Yes you better go to work so you can support me since I’m retired and need my SS!!

          9. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

            If you are retired I will be happy to go to work and help to get the SS to you that you earned.

          10. idamag November 11, 2014

            Don’t forget all the other subsidies.

        3. highpckts November 11, 2014

          Really? That bad? When we were insured with Blue Cross before the ACA our premiums went up 25% every 6 months!! We tried to switch companies but because of the pre existing condition clause, we couldn’t. We were turned down everywhere. We always got notices on our lifetime cap on expenses as if we needed to be reminded!. We were paying $1800 a month so I really don’t feel sorry for you.

          1. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 11, 2014

            I guess if you were always insured you wouldn’t have had to worry about pre existing conditions. I never said that everything about the ACA was bad just some of it. People should be able to buy health insurance, I agree just let me pay for what I need and you pay for what you need. And I do feel sorry for you on more than one leve.

          2. idamag November 11, 2014

            The ACA is not perfect after all the compromising and governors not allowing expanded Medicaid. It is a start and it can be fixed.

          3. highpckts November 11, 2014

            We are really smug huh??

          4. plc97477 November 13, 2014

            If you live in a red state that did not give their people expanded medicare you can’t blame that on the ACA.

          5. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 14, 2014

            I don’t

        4. Allan Richardson November 11, 2014

          Yours must be an exceptional case, or you are too lazy to see what else is available, or you are lying, I have no way to know which. The problem the ACA was intended to solve has been partially solved, and would have been more completely solved, if not for the obstruction of the “protectors of jobs in the funeral industry.” That problem is that health coverage was, for almost everyone, unaffordable EXCEPT through a job or other large groups, IF it could be obtained at all. Did conservatives CARE about the millions of people denied health care before? They have been obstructing the effort to make life and health a human right, not a purchased commodity, since the days of Harry Truman, so obviously they do NOT care. The charge leveled by Rep. Alan Grayson of Florida may sound harsh and “uncivil” (except when compared to the “emperor” and “witch doctor” and “Muslim socialist” insults thrown untruthfully at the President), but in essence they are the TRUTH: the conservative health plan is “don’t get sick, but if you do, die quickly” (and cheaply).

          1. 2010HDSTGLIDE November 12, 2014

            Not lazy, work everyday, not a liar, and you are wrong. End of conversation. Everyone should have health care I agree.

      2. highpckts November 11, 2014


    2. highpckts November 11, 2014

      Really? Then why are people still signing up? Quit with the GOP talking points or, better yet, you tell us everything that is bad about people having healthcare!

      1. idamag November 11, 2014

        All generalities are lies. You notice tom highway didn’t put any facts out there – just a generality.

    3. Allan Richardson November 11, 2014

      The biggest lie is the “job killer.” So far, the only jobs it has killed are in the FUNERAL industry, by preventing SOME of the deaths which, before the ACA, were inevitable, not because medical science could not cure the diseases, but because the cures were FINANCIALLY unavailable to uninsured people.

  3. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

    Ever notice how those who profit most from the sick and dying are the first to protect their HMO profits. 10 million people who formerly could not afford healthcare insurance enrolled in the ACA.

    But, why should greedy little pigs who profit from masses of sick, dying Americans put an end to unmitigated greed by HMOs and Big Pharma?

    After all, to these greedy pigs, it’s as Ebenezer Scrooge believed, “decrease the surplus population.”

    At what point does the US government plan to investigate the use of fearmongering to earn obscene profits by HMOs and Big Pharma?

    The ACA was a long time coming. Medical bankruptcies from 2000 to 2008 had tripled. But, never let it be said, the profiteering pigs who feed at HMO troughs want to lose all that moolah they use to stuff into their Wall Street Investments.

    Anyone recall what Prudential did back in 2006 when it used their customers’ premiums to invest in European real estate that went belly up? The minute they lost those profits, zappo! Premiums increased.

    Stick it boys. You dare and dump affordable healthcare and those 10 million who now can afford will make you wish you were dead.

    1. highpckts November 11, 2014

      Those 10 million people will not make them wish they were dead! When the voter turnout was as low as it was, they deserve what they get. I hate to sound pessimistic but this country has become like lambs being lead to the slaughter! Whatever the GOP says and dishes out, no one says a word. No uprising, no revolt, not even a whimper. We used to be a great country that fought for what was right and just, but somewhere along the line we have tucked tail and given in. The SCOTUS will again vote their party line and you won’t hear so much as a peep!

      1. plc97477 November 13, 2014

        Those states that made voting easier got good turn out, those that made voter harder (in some cases almost impossible) got less turn out. We need to make sure voting stays easy and stop trying to keep others from voting.

  4. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

    Here’s what one NJ paper printed about the GOP plan for healthcare.

    “Flexible spending Accounts allow you to allocate pre-tax dollars for medical expenses not covered by your policy. You may be allowed to put up to $2,500 into an FSA a year.”

    So, in other words, you need not one, but 2 policies…the FSA you save that $2,500 in and the second policy to cover actual healthcare costs.

    This is what the GOP hopes you won’t be smart enough to recognize hands not one but 2 premiums to cover all your healthcare insurance costs.

    And if you are unemployed? Lose your job?

    Either GOP men are idiots who think everyone lives off federal tax salaries like they do or they think we all must earn what Benmosche, Blanfein, Dimon and the Koch boils on the butt of humanity earn. Sure…that’ll work. Especially when the greedy pig CEOs won’t hire or create jobs and the GOP supports that.

  5. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

    Why do right wingers and the GOP lie? Because they hope their propaganda will become embedded in every American’s mind…in other words a China Syndrome style mind control strategy.

    Why do they post lies they cannot hope to prove in a court of law? It’s not what you think. It’s their “culture.” All that phony swaggering and drawling BS is like icing on their cakes. The cakes are inedible and moldy but they figure if they slather enough icing on it, you’ll all be tempted enough to bite.

    1. mike November 11, 2014

      Talk about lying to the American people, watch this video. No right wing outlet, just the University of Pennsylvania,LDI Health Economics.
      Watch one of the architects of ACA call the American people “Stupid” showing contempt for all Americans and lying to get it passed. go to 20;40.

      If the drafters of ACA knowing and intentionally duped the CBO, Congress and American people as he claims and the SCOTUS is made aware of this, ACA could be really in big trouble. Bills are written loosely but to deliberate lie is grounds to strike down.

      1. DAVE in VA November 11, 2014

        Mike, I posted the same thing and they called me a liar.

        1. mike November 11, 2014

          Are you at all surprised? Most are intellectually dishonest. They should outraged, but no, they will go back to sleep.
          At least she watched it. Dom refused because it was from the right. When I informed him where it was from he still wouldn’t. Lynda has not responded.

          1. DAVE in VA November 11, 2014

            All of a sudden they have something against a You Tube Video. We would think that after the Benghazi video, they would at least watch this one.

          2. mike November 11, 2014

            Anything that shows a smidgen of truth will make them run. I gave them the PENN LDI health economic video for them to watch the whole thing.

      2. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

        ooooooh….. Mikey doesn’t like lying…only when it comes from HIS party or his right wing BS blowhards.

        I don’t care what you post…The ACA better stand. I am NOT going to pay higher premiums so little basement dwellers like you can get FREE healthcare.

        What about when you don’t pay, we do …don’t you asshats GET?

        1. mike November 11, 2014

          You should be indignant at his remarks. Just shows how much of a intellectually dishonest person you are. But alas, anything and everything for the cause.
          He knowingly and intentionally lied to the American people, the administration knew.
          ACA better stand!!! Now that is laughable. You should be concerned, if it is struck down you only have to blame your party for its lies and deceit.
          Bottom dweller I am not. But, nice try!!

          1. Eleanore Whitaker November 12, 2014

            Everyone has a right to their opinion. Pardon me if I no longer respect or place much value in the opinions of most men today. These are little disgruntled twerps who operate on the basis of what they want, when they want it and how they want it. Not a very mature basis from which to exact credibility. And…in case you missed it, you are no intellectual.

            The ACA WILL stand for one reason..the first American who ends up losing their healthcare insurance and dies is on YOU and YOUR little boys who are selfish little pigs. Testosterone isn’t the predication of manhood…You’re about as value a US Citizen as a pissant.

          2. mike November 12, 2014

            Thanks for the good laugh!!
            Talk about a real pissant, look in the mirror!!!

          3. Eleanore Whitaker November 12, 2014

            All buffoons laugh when they know they’ve been outed. Men like you are pathetic. You think because the Genesis tells you Adam was created before Eve, you can make ALL the rules for woman and children? Think again. Women today don’t need men. That’s one you can’t mentally process on your brightest “intellectual” day.

            What about being a bossy little twerp don’t you see when you look in YOUR mirror?

          4. mike November 12, 2014

            Still laughing!!! You are a riot!!! You make my day with all the stupid comments.
            Hey, how did the mid-term elections go for you??? Where was that massive female vote decimating the GOP candidates. You were so sure last summer that the women in one big block would destroy the right. As I said earlier, you are a riot, but not that bright with thinking like that.

          5. Eleanore Whitaker November 12, 2014

            I realize a dipshit like you thinks by laughing that your need to prove you have testicles. Your manhood is at risk. Most hyenas do laugh and not for reasons a hyena like you can ever hope to validate.

            I know you think your GOP hatchet boys will now take over the country. Think again. There are now 6 more women in the House. And if you think these women, GOP or Dem will tolerate asshats like you trying to muscle them, you’d best think again.

            Unlike you hyenas of the Bully Boy Generation, these are educated, financially independent women who don’t play your little boy competition games and turn government into a little boy’s sport.

            You aren’t a riot. You’re just one more mentally ill little boy McMommy and McDaddy spoiled rotten, who now thinks he’ll muscle everything that gets in his way. You forgot one thing, women like me know a well placed shoe up your dumb asses is all we need to set your “brain” straight.

          6. mike November 12, 2014

            You are one hilarious person. Thanks for the chuckles you provide with your inane comments

          7. Eleanore Whitaker November 12, 2014

            And the hyena continues to laugh. Sure..why not? What’s he got to be unhappy about…He’s got McMommy and McDaddy’s basement for living quarters, their SS and Medicare to take care of him…but does little Mikey ever work? You bet not.

      3. charleo1 November 11, 2014

        The person you are referring to is MIT Economics Professor, Jonathan Gruber. The man who helped write much of the MA. Plan, (RomneyCare,) And, preformed much the same service under a $267,000 Federal contract for the similarly fashioned (ObamaCare.) A program he advocated for and promoted in 2010. In much the same way as he had earlier for RomneyCare. One question I have for Mr. Gruber, is was he lying then, or is he lying now? Or, has he signed yet another lucrative contract, this time with the insurance cartel His comment, the one that has gained so much attention in the Right Wing Blogosphere, and undoubtedly the skewed beyond all common sense, Fox News. Involved him calling the American Public, “stupid,” for not realizing the younger and healthier were paying the premiums, and the older, and sicker were collecting the benefits. Which, correct me if I’m wrong, is a perfect description of just about any kind of insurance there is. The accident free drivers fix the cars of the more reckless. And the people who buy flood insurance mostly rebuild the beachfront mansions of the well to do. And what has gotten lost almost from the beginning by those so adamantly opposed to healthcare reform. Is the absolutely putrid system that was breaking employers, impoverishing the Nation, and was almost universally hated by everyone, except the insurance companies, which were having their way with all concerned. The Doctors, hospitals, businesses, policy holders, and the taxpayers too. Who were, through their State, and Federal Governments, paying trillions for the millions of uninsured, and indigent care. That were using emergency rooms for everything. Runny noses, coughs, fevers, sprained ankles, and heart attacks, that could have been prevented, or kidneys that failed because of a diabetic
        condition the patient had had for years, but was never checked. All that went on our tab, yours, and mine. And still the costs rose. Three, four, and five times the rate of overall inflation. And still everyone continued to dance to the tune of big insurance, We, you, none of us with anything of value to our names, that would be forfeited to pay medical bills that could dwarf the value of our largest financial holding, our home, had any choice but to try to deal with the untenable
        situation as best we could. Until the worst happened, and we couldn’t. And yet, here you are, fighting for all you’re worth, because you want all that wonderfulness of a dead end alley
        mugging, back?

        1. mike November 11, 2014

          Now, Now don’t put words in my mouth.
          Here is the original video of the PENN LD Institute health economic, University of Pennsylvania.

          Not sure how you can skew what someone says when you have it on video. At the 20:40 you will see and hear what he has to say. I listened to almost all the video and he makes other revelations.
          What I see/heard is one of the architects saying the drafters, congressional leaders knowing and intentionally lying so as to getting it passed. They did not write it loosely for later interpretation but to deceive, lie to the “Stupid” American people. He had no problem then or now.
          SCOTUS could strike it down with these revelations.
          ACA is a poorly written law and should be repealed(I didn’t say will). The worst is yet to come in the next few years. Premiums are up and down but out of pocket and deductibles have big increases. Choice doesn’t exist, projected costs increasing, etc..
          Can’t be written better? Absolutely!!!

  6. paulyz November 11, 2014

    Hopefully after “finding out what’s in it” as Nancy Pelosi stated, they will reject it.

    1. Eleanore Whitaker November 11, 2014

      Really PaulyZ? And so you don’t mind all of those 10 million who NOW have healthcare insurance dumping higher costs on your HMO premiums? Boy are you men stupid!

    2. DAVE in VA November 11, 2014

      Paulyz, only two things that we have to pass to see what is in it.
      1. Is a Stool Sample
      2. The ACA…Obama Care.

      1. howa4x November 11, 2014

        Wait till you see the chaos in the healthcare system if it is repealed. Currently the providers are comfortable with the law if it is repealed then 20 million would loose coverage overnight. The best part is that it would be a republican problem to fix since they would be blamed.

        1. angelsinca November 11, 2014

          Republicans will be blamed, regardless. If we only had a unifying leader with an unselfish vision that could be trusted to do the right (non-partisan) thing..

          1. howa4x November 11, 2014

            WE have a monopoly of the two party system, and that has devolved into a giant patronage factory for whoever is in power. It’s all about the money. There are more independents than the two parties together we just need to be more organized

          2. Samuel Winchester November 11, 2014

            excuse me but 2010 a bunch or morons voted for a new party called the Tea Party. We don’t need a third party we need to get rid of the Tea Party.

        2. angelsinca November 11, 2014

          Wait till you see the chaos of an IRS hell bent on collecting ACA premiums. With NO CHANGES to the law, we will see wages attached, property seized and liens placed. All in the name of ‘fairness’, of course.

          1. howa4x November 11, 2014

            The individual mandate was a trade off with the insurance industry. For making healthy people buy insurance the INs companies would drop anyone from coverage or use pre existing conditions as a gauge on whether you would be able to buy it. In effect the industry puts profits over people’ health. This is why we have to buy it. As for the IRS, they can’t place a lien on property for this you pay a $500 fine

          2. angelsinca November 12, 2014

            The current year fine is less than $500. It peaks at about $950. The IRS is allowed to use all means at its disposable to collect the fine, er ‘tax’. It remains the cheaper option for a lot of families forced into the ACA. If it is liked so much (by so few), then instead of excusing its flaws, you ought to be working on how to reform it. If it can’t be reformed, it will be repealed.

    3. highpckts November 11, 2014

      So you like paying for other people’s healthcare? Nice to know!!

      1. ROBERT H. GRAHAM November 11, 2014

        So you like under paid, sick people to cook your food???

        1. highpckts November 11, 2014

          I think you misunderstood my comment. Paulyz thinks the ACA should be gone. I’m saying, if it is, we will still pay in ER care.

          1. ROBERT H. GRAHAM November 11, 2014

            I think you are right ~! I got it wrong. Sorry~!

          2. highpckts November 11, 2014


          3. idamag November 11, 2014

            For every $2500 you pay in health care, $800 goes to pay the bills of those who can’t or won’t.

        2. idamag November 12, 2014

          Since most food establishments do not give benefits, underpaid sick people might cook your food anyway.

      2. howa4x November 11, 2014

        I’m paying for low wage states so what is the difference

        1. highpckts November 11, 2014

          Exactly! If the GOP would raise the minimum wage maybe you wouldn’t be.

          1. howa4x November 11, 2014

            True dat

  7. idamag November 11, 2014

    maybe It should be discontinued and go back to less than 50% of premiums going to CEO salaries and bonuses and stockholders. .Reinstatement of pre-existing conditions and caps on what an insurance company pays. This is what this selfish populace deserves.

    1. Allan Richardson November 11, 2014

      You believe that people who want to be healthy, so that they can work and support their families, or who merely want to SURVIVE, and cannot pay for the necessary care out of pocket, nor be accepted at a reasonable premium, or AT ALL, to get insurance, are SELFISH???

      If there had been an election between Jesus and Pilate, you would probably be condemning Jesus’ support of the “selfish lepers’ and peasants’ lobby” as socialist. If your (I assume you are a Christian of the fundamentalist type, since most of your ilk are) theology is correct, you may have to answer to Comrade Jesus, according to Matthew 25.

      1. idamag November 11, 2014

        I’m sorry, Allan. was thinking about the relative I have in Wisconsin. They are low income and because Scott Walker would not adopt expanded Medicaid, they could not afford insurance. My anger is that they voted him back in. I want everyone to have good insurance. It should never come to pay the rent or the doctor. However, they need to study the issue and see what they have done to themselves. The ACA was not perfect, but it was something to work on. All those people who voted in the rich peoples’ representatives voted to lose the ground that was made. They voted for them. I didn’t.

        1. Allan Richardson November 11, 2014

          Sorry, I misinterpreted your sarcasm of the other side as your BEING on that side. My apologies to you, but not to the viewpoint you were parodying.

          If only it were possible to arrange things so that voters who deliberately or, in your relative’s case, out of pure stupidity, vote for candidates who are social Darwinists, would suffer alone. Unfortunately, they cause the others who vote more intelligently to suffer along with them.

          I was confused about the wording of your first sentence. Did you mean MORE than 50% of premiums going to CEO salaries and bonuses? As both of us (but probably not some others on this page) know, the ACA limits total administrative costs, including profits, to 30% of premiums, and requires any excess to be REFUNDED to the policyholder. I doubt that any employers who split the premiums with their employees will pass on that refund; they probably consider the refunds to be to THEIR share of the premiums, and not mention them to the employees at all.

          1. idamag November 12, 2014

            More than 50% of premiums going to CEOs is what they are voting to go back to. The ACA says at least 80% of premiums go to health care.

  8. howa4x November 11, 2014

    if the court strikes down the ACA on ideological grounds, it will throw the entire healthcare system into chaos, since it will automatically invalidate anyone receiving a subsidy to buy insurance, and cancel the Medicaid expansion, and throw every kids between the ages of 22 and 26 off coverage. This would put the insurance coverage of 20 million in jeopardy. Conservatives glee would be short lived since the 5 republican justices and the GOP would share the blame for this calamity. The republicans never wanted repeal of the law just the show around it. The reality is that it’s a republican plan thought up by the heritage foundation and successfully implemented by a republican governor, Romney. It has been a financial boon to insurance companies and their stock on Wall st, and a repeal would cause Insurance stocks to tumble. This is why I see SCOTUS doing some massaging of the law and not a wholesale gutting of it. If by chance they do then the GOP would have to clean up the mess and this is something they are not prepared to do since any plan they come up with would be compared to the one they trashed. If there are differences that hurt different groups of people the republicans will be blamed. It is no win for them and why I think the incoming senators are secretly praying the law survives

  9. dana becker November 11, 2014

    Either way both ways are too much money and too much burden on insured while less in on the insurer. When the average premium in my age group is almost 500 for the exchanges with less financial coverage and high deductibles and copays if you actually had to use it you would be way over 10000.00 a year. What are you supposed to live on? How will you ever save for the future? You won’t. And forget the employer market being affordable. It is 710.00 a month and when you don’t even take an aspirin it is just too much.

    We need some serious changes and it must be to single payer. This way is not going to work.

    I am already looking for alternative countries to move to as I will not be spending every dime I have saved trying to make sure I have a comfortable retirement only to give it all to an insurance company with nothing to show for it and constantly living in fear that my money will not last. Between home, car and health insurance the premiums are almost 7000.00 a year with not one dime coming back to you.

  10. FT66 November 11, 2014

    The Supreme Court will not let ACA die its natural death. All justices there are human beings and very good thinkers thats why they are there on the bench. They will think on the costs the government has incurred so far in preparing ACA function. They will think all those millions who have been insured and striking it down, will be like a death sentence to millions, a thing one branch of government (Judiciary), can’t do to its people. What I think is, they will give advice how to go about anywhere ACA falls short.

    1. AlfredSonny November 11, 2014

      I wish I could agree with you that at least one, namely Justice Thomas, is human being and very good thinker. He refused to recuse himself from an important case where his own wife was involved that is imploding elections. He made decisions his own ancestors would be ashamed of. His track record is parallel with the Kock Brothers’ demands.

      1. FT66 November 11, 2014

        On this issue, I trust all of them (9) will come up with a joint judgement which is beneficial to millions of people.

        1. AlfredSonny November 11, 2014

          I will be a proud American if ALL Justices agree unanimously!

        2. angelsinca November 11, 2014

          Whatever they decide in this case, it won’t be the death nail of the ACA. Ideally, a decision will be rendered that might impose a little truth in legislattion and a restore state’s rights over federal bullying.

  11. AlfredSonny November 11, 2014

    Should SCOTUS decide that the ACA cannot be subsidized by the taxpayers, will this mean that the oil companies cannot be subsidized by the taxpayers, too?

    1. ralphkr November 11, 2014

      Ha, ha, ha. You seemed to have forgotten, Alfred, that the conservatives consider oil companies and all big businesses as akin to their God in importance while those of us who are not in the top 20% are considered the dregs of society and nothing but a liability. I find it interesting that they completely ignore the fact that without we “dregs of society” the “valuable” members of society would have nothing.

      1. angelsinca November 13, 2014

        Not true Ralph. The upper crust is populated with elitists with both liberal and conservative leanings..

        1. ralphkr November 14, 2014

          Sooo, angel, what does the fact that some of the 20% are liberals have to do with my statement that CONSERVATIVES(notice I did not mention their income) consider the wealthy & big business as the be all and end all.

          1. angelsinca November 14, 2014

            Sooo, ralph, liberals also ‘consider the wealthy & big business as the be all and end all’ (especially if they are in the upper crust). My point is it isn’t only the conservative that considers the ‘dregs of society as a liability’.

          2. ralphkr November 14, 2014

            First, angelsinca, I strongly recommend that you sign up for a remedial class in English reading comprehension. At no time have I ever said that liberals consider the wealthy as next to God. I did point out that conservatives consider those not rolling in money as worthless. Left unsaid was the fact that liberals do NOT consider the working class as a liability.

  12. AlfredSonny November 11, 2014

    I am retired and live on fixed income based on my current assets. A couple months ago, I had a pacemaker implanted. As a result of the ACA , practically all of my medical expenses was covered. Instead of having reduced income which would decrease in time due to depreciating assets, I am at peace, knowing that I will not be homeless before I meet the maker.

    I am hopeful that the Justices will be mindful of the needs of 99% Americans instead of 1%.


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