Tag: ai bubble
The $12.5 Trillion-Dollar Question: When Will That AI Bubble Burst?

The $12.5 Trillion-Dollar Question: When Will That AI Bubble Burst?

I often get that question. I can’t say I have a very good answer.

Going back to the last bubbles, it would be difficult to identify any events in the world that precipitated the collapse of either the 90s tech bubble or the housing bubble in the 00s. Both times the economy seemed to be moving along at healthy clip just prior to the collapse.

There had been warnings in both cases. In the 1990s bubble it was hardly a secret that many totally crazy businesses were raising hundreds of millions of dollars in IPOs. Investors were worried about missing out on the next Microsoft, so they were willing to throw big bucks at seemingly hare-brained schemes, just in case.

In the housing bubble, the fact that many of the mortgage loans being issued were of rather dubious quality was hardly a secret. Lenders were issuing loans at 100 percent of appraised value and sometimes more. In many cases, people were borrowing in excess of the value of their home to cover closing costs or moving expenses. The verification on these loans was minimal. There were frequent jokes about “liar loans” or NINJA loans, with NINJA standing for “no income, no job, and no assets.”

But these warnings came well before the crashes. There is no obvious event that caused the stock market to turn in March of 2000 or the housing bubble to peak in the summer of 2006.

The Federal Reserve arguably played a role in the latter. The federal funds rate rose from its tech recession low of 1.0 percent in the spring of 2004 to a peak of 5.25 percent in the summer of 2006. This made mortgages more expensive, which made it harder for people to pay bubble inflated prices to buy homes. But the increases were gradual and the impact on 30-year mortgages was minimal. Of course, since many borrowers were taking out adjustable-rate mortgages at the time, higher short-term rates did matter.

In the 1990s, there was only a very modest increase in the federal funds rate, rising from 5.5 percent in the fall to 6.0 percent by March. It rose further into the spring, but the market had already turned at that point.

With this history, I don’t know what might cause the bubble to burst. Just to pick up on a point I made last summer, it is very hard to tell a story where the current price of the big AI-related companies makes sense. Nvidia has a current market capitalization of $4.8 trillion. If investors expect a 10 percent nominal return on the stock, in ten years it would have a market capitalization of $12.5 trillion. If we assume its earning have caught up so that it has a price/earnings ratio at that time of 20 (pretty high for a mature company), then its after-tax profits in 2036 would be $620 billion. That would be almost 15 percent of all after-tax profits in the U.S. economy, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s projections.

The idea that one company would have 15 percent of all corporate profits is not impossible, but it doesn’t seem like the most likely scenario. Alphabet, which is obviously an incredibly successful company, currently has about 4.6 percent of after-tax profits, so will Nvidia be more than three times as large relative to the economy in a decade than Alphabet is today?

Furthermore, is that anyone’s best bet? If this is a possible but not likely scenario then people must be expecting considerably higher returns on their investments in Nvidia stock, say 15 percent or 20 percent. In those cases, we would need for the company’s profits to be 25 or 30 percent of all corporate earnings in 2036 to make sense of Nvidia’s share price. This seems to be getting pretty far-fetched.

Who knows when or what will make the bubble burst. Maybe the Chinese competitors get enough market share with their lower-priced AI that it will become clear even to the Silicon Valley geniuses that their big jackpot exists only in their heads. Maybe their revenues will stop meeting projections. But whatever causes it, the story of the collapse is not likely to be pretty.

Dean Baker is a senior economist at the Center for Economic and Policy Research and the author of the 2016 book Rigged: How Globalization and the Rules of the Modern Economy Were Structured to Make the Rich Richer. Please consider subscribing to his Substack.

Reprinted with permission from Dean Baker.

With Courage And Grit, AI Workers Could Save Democracy

With Courage And Grit, AI Workers Could Save Democracy

The AI promoters have made grand promises about how AI will change everything and give us all happier, healthier lives. Maybe that will be proven right, but it’s fair to say they have not yet delivered.

However, AI workers may have the power to do something very important in the present, not some distant or not so distant future. They can save democracy.

Their route to saving democracy is by not doing AI, or at least not doing AI with their current employers. At the moment, AI is clearly driving the economy. Investment in data centers and the power plants to support them directly account for a large share of economic growth.

Probably even more important than the direct investment is the impact of AI on stock market wealth and thereby on consumption. We have seen a huge run-up in the stock market driven primarily by companies that are heavily invested in AI.

To take the obvious examples, Nvidia, which makes most of the key chips for AI, now has a market capitalization of almost $4.5 trillion. Its stock has risen 1500 percent in the last five years. Microsoft has a market capitalization of $3.4 trillion. Its stock price has doubled in the last five years. Apple and Meta’s stock prices have risen less dramatically, but now have market capitalizations of $3.8 trillion and $1.6 trillion, respectively.

Stock wealth translates into higher consumption as people spend annually between 2 and 3 cents on a dollar of stock wealth. In the last five years the market has added nearly $30 trillion in wealth as the market has more than doubled in value. That stock gain translates into between $600 billion and $900 billion in annual consumption spending, or 2-3% of GDP. This is clearly a huge factor in driving the economy.

If the AI bubble were to burst, this pattern of growth would come to an end. If I and many others are correct in calling AI a bubble, it will burst in any case, the only question is the timing.

One factor that could hasten the collapse would be if a substantial number of top AI researchers took a hike, and either took some time away from the industry (maybe literally take a hike) or moved into some other area of research. The big AI companies that have gone to great lengths to recruit top researchers would likely see their stock valuations plummet. This could quickly end the current AI frenzy.

How does this save democracy? In my crude analysis of our current politics, Trump has a hard-core base of around 25% of the electorate. This crew will be with Trump no matter what. As he put it some years back, he could kill someone on Fifth Avenue, and they would still support him.

Roughly 50% percent of the population oppose Trump, most of them very strongly as they see clearly the threat he poses to democracy and our fundamental rights. Then there is another 25% or so that may not really like Trump, they might even think he’s a jerk, but hey, their 401(k)s are up, the economy isn’t doing badly, so why not?

This group has been edging away from Trump in the last year, with polls showing his overall approval now hovering near 40%. But they would edge away far more quickly if their 401(k)s suddenly took a big hit and we got our second Trump recession. (The first one was in 2020, for the folks with bad memories.)

If Trump went from being slightly unpopular to being extremely unpopular, we would start to see Republican politicians in the House and Senate suddenly come back to life. Very few of this group have any real commitment to Trump. In fact, some of them were hardcore never Trumpers before he took over the party.

These politicians care first and foremost about their careers, and they will not wed themselves to a 79-year-old man whose popularity is sinking like a rock. They will start again acting like members of Congress and doing things like overseeing spending, limiting Trump’s barrage of executive orders, and reining in ICE, which Trump is using as his personal police force to terrorize the states and cities that support Democrats.

The top AI researchers have the ability to set this ball in motion. It may be some personal sacrifice, but these people’s skills will still carry enormous value a year or two from now. They will not go hungry. And if the bubble is going to burst anyhow, why not get out front and do something great for the world?

To be clear, in my view this is not an issue of doing something bad to the economy. I have written before on how it would be good if the AI bubble bursts sooner rather than later. The same was true for the 1990s tech bubble and the housing bubble in the 00s. In all these cases we would have been much better off if the bubbles had burst years earlier.

Huge amounts of resources were being misallocated. The larger the bubble, the more painful the readjustment process. And to be clear, an economy where all the consumption growth is coming from the richest 20 percent of the population is not a healthy one. Bringing that pattern of growth to an end soon looks pretty good in my book.

We know the top people in tech, folks like Jeff Bezos at Amazon and Mark Zuckerberg at Meta, are just fine with Trump’s destruction of democracy. But these are not the people who make their companies economic powerhouses. If the people who actually do the work step forward, they really can change the world. The rest of us will keep trying too.

Dean Baker is a senior economist at the Center for Economic and Policy Research and the author of the 2016 book Rigged: How Globalization and the Rules of the Modern Economy Were Structured to Make the Rich Richer. Please consider subscribing to his Substack.

Reprinted with permission from Dean Baker.

Warning: Here's Why The Fed Can't Rescue Markets From AI Bubble

Warning: Here's Why The Fed Can't Rescue Markets From AI Bubble

While everything feels political now – a kind of fin de siècle chaos politics – I want to take a brief break from the political today. Instead I want to talk about asset markets and the Fed.

We could say that the US economy in 2025 was schizoid. On the one hand Donald Trump abruptly reversed 90 years of U.S. trade policy, breaking all our international agreements, and pushed tariffs to levels not seen since the 1930s. Worse, the tariffs keep changing unpredictably. This uncertainty is clearly bad for business and is depressing the economy. On the other hand, there has simultaneously been a huge boom in AI-related investment, which is boosting the economy.

As many people have already noted, the AI boom bears an unmistakable resemblance to the tech boom of the late 1990s — a boom that turned out to be a huge bubble. The Nasdaq didn’t regain its 2000 peak until 2014.There’s intense debate about whether AI investment is similarly a bubble, which I would summarize as a shoving match: “Is not!” “Is too!” “Is not!” “Is too!”

While my personal guess is that AI is indeed in the midst of a bubble, I won’t devote today’s post to that debate. Instead, I want to talk about one recent aspect of market behavior that is very striking and carries strong echoes of the tech bubble a generation ago. Namely, AI-related stocks, like tech stocks back then, are reacting very strongly to perceptions about the Fed’s short-term interest rate policy.

Now as then, these strong reactions don’t make sense.

To see what I’m talking about, consider recent moves in stock prices closely related to AI. This chart shows movement over the last month of Bloomberg’s “Magnificent 7” stock index:

bloomberg magnificent 7 Source: Bloomberg News

During most of that month, these stocks were falling, as concerns that AI is a bubble increased. But on Monday the Mag7 index surged, erasing a large fraction of the losses. Why? Analyst chatter about supposed causes of stock market swings should always be taken with many grains of salt. But it’s clear that this surge was catalyzed by remarks by Fed officials which the market interpreted as making a cut in the Fed Funds rate next month more likely.

Some of us have seen this movie before. For those who haven’t, there is a pervasive view that the deflation of the 90s tech bubble was something that happened all at once — a Wile E. Coyote moment in which investors looked down, realized that there was nothing supporting those high valuations, and the market plunged. In reality, however, it was a long, drawn-out process, punctuated with some significant dead cat bounces along the way. Here’s the Nasdaq 100 over the relevant period (the gray bar represents the 2001 recession):

FRED NASDAQ 100 index Source: NASDAQ via FRED/St.Louis Federal Reserve (stlouisfed.org)

Measured against the awesome scale of the ultimate tech-stock decline, the temporary rallies along the way don’t look that big. But they were actually huge compared with normal stock movements. Let’s look at a closeup:


FRED NASDAQ 100 Index tech bubble Source: NASDAQ via FRED/St.Louis Federal Reserve

What drove these temporary bouts of optimism? At the time the conventional wisdom was that they were the result of Fed interest rate reductions and the prospect of further cuts. In fact, many observers used to argue that the stock market was underpinned by the “Greenspan put”: Don’t worry about a crash, Uncle Alan will ride to the rescue.

And after Monday’s stock price spurt, it’s clear that belief in a “Fed put” has made a modest comeback.

Indeed, the graph below shows the numerous rate cuts as the tech bubble burst:

But while these rate cuts did create brief bouts of, well, irrational exuberance, they did nothing to prevent the tech bubble from eventually deflating.

Why couldn’t Greenspan rescue tech stocks? To answer that question, think about why interest rates matter for asset prices: Lower interest rates reduce the rate at which investors discount expected future returns. A dollar delivered to you X years from now has a higher “present value” (that is, a higher current value) if interest rates are one percent than if they’re six percent. How much higher depends on X, the number of years until you receive it.

For example, a house can last for generations, and it delivers value to its owner in the form of a place to live over the years. That stream of housing consumption over the years is worth more – has a higher present value -- when the interest rate is one percent than when it is six percent. Or to put it another way, if you can make six percent on your money in a bank deposit, you may be better off renting rather than buying. That’s why the demand for houses is strongly affected by mortgage rates.

Interest rates matter much more for the value of assets that will still be yielding returns 10 or 20 years from now than they do for assets that will only yield returns for a few years.

That is, the value of assets that have a short economic life is much less affected by interest rates. Not surprisingly, economists have consistently had a hard time finding evidence for any effect of interest rates on business investment.

Moreover, investments in digital technology tend to have an especially short half-life, precisely because rapid technological progress quickly makes equipment and software obsolete. How valuable will data centers currently under construction be 5 years from now? Will they be worth anything 10 years from now? A realistic answer to these questions surely implies that the Fed’s interest policy should have little to no impact on Mag 7 valuations, or the sustainability of the tech boom.

As we saw on Monday, however, Fed policy and rumors about future Fed policy can sometimes affect AI-stock prices in the short run. But by the straight economics, these movements are more the result of market psychology than of any objective assessment of future returns.

So as doubts about AI creep in, I’m hearing growing chatter to the effect that the Fed can and should save the industry. But the lesson from the last big tech bubble is that it can’t. In fact, I have doubts about whether the Fed can head off a broader recession if the tech boom collapses — but that’s a topic for a future post.

For now, my point is that if you’re worried about an AI bubble, don’t expect Jerome Powell or his Trump-appointed successor — rumors are not encouraging — to come to the rescue. They can’t.

Paul Krugman is a Nobel Prize-winning economist and former professor at MIT and Princeton who now teaches at the City University of New York's Graduate Center. From 2000 to 2024, he wrote a column for The New York Times. Please consider subscribing to his Substack.

Reprinted with permission from Paul Krugman.

Will Supreme Court Nix Trump Tariffs, Boost Economy -- And Aid GOP In 2026?

Will Supreme Court Nix Trump Tariffs, Boost Economy -- And Aid GOP In 2026?

From most accounts of the justices’ reactions, it seems they were unimpressed with the argument from Donald Trump’s lawyers about his power to impose tariffs at will. They had trouble convincing the Supreme Court that the beginning of Section 8 of the Constitution, which lays out the powers of Congress -- “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises" -- does not actually mean that Congress has the power to impose taxes, including tariffs.

The conservative justices, all of whom have made a cult out of their supposed adherence to the original text of the Constitution, might find they would have to bend themselves into even more knots than usual to turn the plain wording of the Constitution on its head and rule in Trump’s favor.

It’s not just integrity that would push them to rule against Trump; it’s also clearly in the interest of the business community to have a tariff regime that doesn’t shift based on the president’s feelings. Businesses making long-term investments need to know whether their inputs will be available at relatively low tariff rates or whether Trump will suddenly whack them with a 50 percent tariff, as he has done repeatedly.

This certainly is also needed in the other direction. If a steel company is making investments in the U.S. based on a 50 percent tariff on imported steel, they need some guarantee that a foreign producer won’t make a bribe to Trump and get their steel admitted tariff free.

The existing tariff regime provided this certainty. Trump’s tariff of the day policy does not.

While Trump is warning of the end of the world if his tariff power is reined in, such warnings are about as serious as his healthcare plan. We obviously would take in less revenue with lower tariffs, but so what?

The Republican Congress happily passed Trump's big tax cuts without any expectation of large amounts of tariff revenue. The loss of this revenue will just put us back to where we were in March in terms of the budget.

Trump has his imaginary $18 trillion in foreign investment which he attributes to the tariffs. He can just attribute this imaginary investment to something else, and all will be fine.

And Trump has his eight wars that he imagines he settled by his tariff threats. Again, he can use some other mechanism to get imaginary peace settlements to imaginary wars.

The real story of the Trump tariffs is very simple. They are a tax on the American people, and in fact a very large one.

The government collected just under $30 billion in import taxes in September of this year, the most recent data available. That compares to around $7 billion last year. The increase of $23 billion would imply a tax of almost $270 billion on an annual basis, or 0.9 percent of GDP. This is one of the largest tax increases in the country’s history.

If the court rules against Trump, then this tax increase likely would be reversed. In fact, the Court could even require that the money collected be returned to the companies that paid it, in effect giving a rebate of $200 billion to U.S. importers. This would be putting a large amount of money into these companies’ pockets, some of which would be spent and boost the economy.

We also don’t know the timing of any court decisions. If they wait until June of next year, when they issue most of their major decisions, then the justices may be giving the country a huge tax break just in time to rev the economy up for the election.

It’s very difficult to say what the economy will look like by next summer. Trump’s tariffs, his budget cuts and layoffs, and mass deportations have been a real hit to the labor market. Job growth has slowed to a crawl, real wage growth is near zero, and the unemployment rate had edged higher as of August. (Trump has the September jobs report but has decided not to release it.) That looks like a path of gradual slowing and rising unemployment for the foreseeable future.

However, we have a big unknown in the form of the AI bubble. Having followed closely both the tech bubble in the 90s and the housing bubble in the 00s, I know that a bubble’s end is hard to predict. Both bubbles went on far longer and grew much larger than I would have anticipated. If the bubble continues to grow, next summer we are still likely to be on the path of modest GDP growth and labor market weakening we see today. If it bursts, then a recession is virtually assured.

In that case, the big tax break the Supreme Court would give us by ending the Trump tariffs would be a major boost to the economy. It would not be large enough to reverse the effect of a collapsing bubble, but it would be an important support to the economy when it badly needs it. Congress would have to do more, but hey, the Supreme Court can only do so much when all the responsible people setting policy have left town.

Dean Baker is a senior economist at the Center for Economic and Policy Research and the author of the 2016 book Rigged: How Globalization and the Rules of the Modern Economy Were Structured to Make the Rich Richer. Please consider subscribing to his Substack.

Reprinted with permission from Dean Baker.

Shop our Store

Headlines

Editor's Blog

Corona Virus

Trending

World