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Whatever Mike Pence Won On ‘Style,’ He Lost By Shamelessly Lying

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Whatever Mike Pence Won On ‘Style,’ He Lost By Shamelessly Lying

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Again and again during the vice-presidential debate, Republican nominee Mike Pence prevaricated about the statements and policies of Donald Trump, his own previous remarks, and sundry other topics.

His dogged refusal to defend any of Trump’s outrageous statements — indeed, his determination to distance himself from his presidential running mate — led Pence to make claims that will be easily disproved by journalists who know how to locate videotape of what he and Trump have said only weeks or months ago.

Within minutes after the debate concluded, many commentators proclaimed that Pence had “won” the debate — because Democratic vice presidential nominee Tim Kaine had violated their sense of decorum with repeated interruptions. And Kaine might well have interrupted less, not so much to display good manners as to let viewers hear his opponent talk.

But often and audibly enough, Pence simply attempted to deny that Trump had said the very things that Trump undeniably said, often after shaking his head vigorously. “He didn’t say that!” the Indiana governor blurted, knowing full well that he did say it. And Pence lied about his own statements, too. Perhaps the most glaring example came during a heated exchange between Kaine and Pence about Vladimir Putin — whom the Republican disparaged, in an effort to pivot away from Trump’s embarrassing embrace of the Russian authoritarian, as “small and bullying,” and vowed to confront with “strength.”

When Kaine retorted that not only Trump but Pence himself had praised Putin as a “strong leader,” Pence interrupted indignantly. “That’s absolutely inaccurate,” he said.

But it didn’t take long for MSNBC to play videotape from September that shows Pence defending Trump’s obsequious praise of the Russian boss: “I think it’s inarguable that Vladimir Putin has been a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been in this country.” He fared better when he simply declined to defend Trump’s revolting utterances of bigotry and misogyny — or pretended that he had never heard them.

What Pence was sent forth to do, however, was not so much to defend Trump as to tar Hillary Clinton — in particular on her email server and on the alleged “scandals” of the Clinton Foundation. What he said on the latter topic was completely false and disgraceful. Repeating a Big Lie popularized on the right  by Carly Fiorina, Rush Limbaugh, Reince Priebus and Fox News, Pence twice claimed that “less than ten cents on the dollar in the Clinton Foundation has gone to charitable causes.”

Various news outlets and fact-checking websites have explained, more than once, why this assertion is malicious and wrong. By now Pence must know that and yet he insistently slandered the foundation, its staff, its donors, and its beneficiaries.

Pence’s falsehood is premised on the amount of money reported by the Clinton Foundation in direct grants to other organizations. But as I noted in my new book Man of the World: The Further Endeavors of Bill Clinton,very little of the foundation’s activity or money was spent on doling out grants. Instead, its various initiatives hired staff to pursue charitable purposes directly. Academic experts described it as an ‘operating foundation’ or a “public charity,” rather than a traditional foundation that used an endowment to write checks. Indeed many other traditional foundations, such as Gates and Rockefeller, made annual grants to the Clinton Foundation to support its programs. And the Gates Foundation, oriented toward efficiency and results, had audited Clinton Foundation programs to ensure its money was spent wisely.”

One of Kaine’s best moments in the debate was his forthright defense of the foundation. He noted that the Clinton Foundation provides AIDS treatment to well over 11 million people, among many other humanitarian programs, and contrasted its record of achievement — which has earned top ratings from charity watchdog groups — to the self-serving, unethical, and illegal practices of the Trump Foundation.

Pence also dredged up the debunked canard about “pay for play” between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation, invented by the Associated Press, when he said that as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had spent half of her meetings with foundation donors. The AP withdrew a tweet based on that analysis, which has been rejected by other news organizations as slanted because less than five percent of her time was devoted to foundation donors.

Slurring the Clinton Foundation is nothing new for Pence. He has shrieked ignorantly about its acceptance of millions from “foreign donors,” brushing aside the fact that those donors are American allies whose money went to save millions of lives in Africa. In August he demanded that Clinton “shut the foundation down” immediately, although that would surely cost many lives. Before he makes such preposterous and callous comments, Pence ought to speak with some of his evangelical brothers and sisters, whose anguish over the AIDS crisis in Africa inspired George W. Bush’s multi-billion-dollar PEPFAR initiative. The foundation’s success in reducing the costs of treatment made that program far more effective.

Given the prejudices of the Republican base, Pence believes that vilifying the Clinton Foundation will benefit him and Trump, even if he knows he is lying. But in the long term, he may pay a price for that heartless cynicism. Not long ago, James Carville said that “someone is going to hell” for fomenting partisan attacks on the Clinton Foundation and its mission to save the innocent. Last night, one more self-proclaimed Christian became a candidate for that fate.

IMAGE: Tim Kaine and Mike Pence during their vice presidential debate at Longwood University in Farmville, Virginia.    REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst

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Joe Conason

A highly experienced journalist, author and editor, Joe Conason is the editor-in-chief of The National Memo, founded in July 2011. He was formerly the executive editor of the New York Observer, where he wrote a popular political column for many years. His columns are distributed by Creators Syndicate and his reporting and writing have appeared in many publications around the world, including the New York Times, the Washington Post, The New Yorker, The New Republic, The Nation, and Harpers. Since November 2006, he has served as editor of The Investigative Fund, a nonprofit journalism center, where he has assigned and edited dozens of award-winning articles and broadcasts. He is also the author of two New York Times bestselling books, The Hunting of the President (St. Martins Press, 2000) and Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth (St. Martins Press, 2003). Currently he is working on a new book about former President Bill Clinton's life and work since leaving the White House in 2001. He is a frequent guest on radio and television, including MSNBC's Morning Joe, and lives in New York City with his wife and two children.

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314 Comments

  1. AgLander October 5, 2016

    Wow! Kaine lost twice. He lost big last night to Pence who wiped the floor with him for the entire 90 minutes of the debate and today Kaine will lose a second time when he has to face the wrath of an angry Hillary Clinton who is furious over how he allowed her campaign to be exposed as lacking any substance other then one liner insults aimed at her opponent. Pence took the high road and drove home (in between Kaine’s irritating interruptions) the substance of the change that the Trump agenda will bring in bringing back America, while Kaine had no rebuttals other that operating from the sewer, slinging nothing but ineffective pre-rehearsed insults and acting like he was very uncomfortable and unhappy to be there on stage. Last night was promoted as measuring the presidential traits of the two men if they were called upon and Pence not only passed, he passed with flying colors…..dignified throughout and sticking to the substantive. Kaine failed miserably by any measure…..in between gulping large amounts of water, he performed like a bratty frat boy who lost his homework and decided to disrupt class long enough to prevent the subject matter from being addressed. He failed. He was totally exposed. And so was the Clinton campaign.

    Reply
    1. sigrid28 October 5, 2016

      Here’s the problem. You can’t just say stuff and people will believe it. There has to be some semblance of truth. Trump and Pence can claim that the country is in decline but the facts prove otherwise, and most people will insist on facts and dismiss self-serving fallacies. Some Republicans may still want to line up behind people with money, like Trump, and people who wish they had money, like Pence, but many voters–a majority in this country–are not impressed by wealth and its trappings.

      Reply
      1. Grannysmovin October 5, 2016

        His basket full of believers will.

        Reply
      2. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

        I never believe a word AG posts. He’s a paid troll. He makes his money every day by the word count he manages to post on several different threads. The fact is AG is not even a US citizen.

        Reply
        1. AgLander October 5, 2016

          Instead of being so obsessed with me, you should have spent your time more productively in getting Kaine a debate coach……a little too late now, however.

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Obsessed with a wuss like you? No…If you are going to go after me, do you seriously think I won’t chew you up and spit you out?

            You hide who you are because if anyone actually knew, they’d realize you are a bum.

            Reply
          2. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Bum? Was that your 4th husband’s name?

            Reply
          3. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            I was only married once. And that was a huge mistake for a free flyer like me. Sorry …men like you bore the hell out of me. You regurgitate the same garbage over and over.

            I much prefer men of highest intelligence with whom intellectual communication is far easier.

            Reply
          4. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Oh, oh……I hope your husband sleeps with one eye open!

            Reply
          5. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            I haven’t had a husband for nearly 37 years. Didn’t want one then, don’t now and never NEEDED one. I am fully capable of supporting myself, paid off the mortgage on my home in 1996 and supported 2 children BY MYSELF at a time when women earned 79 cents to the $1 men earn. So, you bet I am accomplished.

            Reply
          6. AgLander October 5, 2016

            I like him already……he was perceptive enough to see the demonic symptoms and realized what a terrible mistake he made and got the hell out of there!

            Reply
          7. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            You like Satan. What’s the difference? Pence is one of those guy’s who after a life of sin, “GOT Religion!” Now, he is so miserable having to follow the straight and narrow that he wants to “CONVERT” the rest of us. Misery loves company. Religious fanatics use conversion like misery…so they have company in their misery.

            Reply
          8. AgLander October 5, 2016

            So….you are also an atheist? What an interesting person you are …..in a vacuous sort of way!

            Reply
          9. plc97477 October 5, 2016

            The more converts they have the more money they get. Simple, it all comes back to their first love, money.

            Reply
          10. PatrickHenry October 5, 2016

            Yes, the Multi-Millions in the Clinton Foundation. Thank you.

            Reply
          11. idamag October 5, 2016

            The Clinton Foundation has an excellent rating. You “Trump is who you are” people don’t seek out facts because you want to believe the worst. Since 6% of The Clinton Foundation goes to grants, stupids jumped right on that, not bothering to find out that 89% of the Clinton Foundation money goes to charity. It is used to train, provide sees for and help market farm produce in Africa. Neither of the Clintons take out any money for themselves. Since it is a worldwide charity foundation, there is nothing wrong with foreign donations. Now, research the Trump Foundation and the Trump University.

            Reply
        2. idamag October 5, 2016

          Time Magazine, August 29, 2016, has quite a feature on trolls. It is entitled, Why We’re Losing the Internet to the Culture of Hate.” It profiles people like ag and the profile is not very flattering.

          Reply
    2. Ed Pilwallis October 5, 2016

      Pence looked like he has just been embalmed and his litany of lies spewed the failed Trickle Down Trump Economics from the 1920’s and renew by Reagan and Bush. Reganomics has been the driving force of the stagnant economy and widening gap between the 1% and the rest of us. If it were not for Obams we would be in much worse shape.

      Reply
    3. Wrily October 5, 2016

      You must have watched a different debate than the rest of us.

      Reply
    4. A_Real_Einstein October 5, 2016

      Sorry you nominated Bozo the clown. The race is already over. You can’t win a debate by lying through it. Trump has nothing. He is down in PAby double digits. Game over.

      Reply
  2. wanda.peters.1993 October 5, 2016

    I make in the span of 6,000-8,000 bucks /a month with my internet task. For anyone eager to work simple computer-based task for 2h-5h daily from your house and gain solid checks for doing it… Then this job opportunity is for you… http://fave.co/2bocRGL

    Reply
  3. sigrid28 October 5, 2016

    The lies were the worst thing about Pence’s performance and will be the easiest for Democrats to exploit during the next week. As more people hear Pence delivering these lies in real time and denying them later, during clips from the debate, I think strong nonverbal messages will also come through. His smug expression during Kaine’s remarks made Pence seem superior and disrespectful. His country-club demeanor carried with it the breath of xenophobia that comes off all such Waspish, “members by invitation only” that Trump creates and Pence wants desperately to belong to. When the Republicans are not lining up behind elites like Donald Trump, they line up behind wannabe elites like Pence. This talk about Pence setting himself up for a nomination in 2020 may be the party’s “Let them eat cake” moment. Women and minorities see right through all that, and they have demographics on their side.

    As for trends coming out of the debate, while Trump was actually delivering insults on Twitter during the vice-presidential debate, Pence was proclaiming that the Democrats were the ones running a campaign based on insults. Here, Pence was essentially a bully whining about being called out for bullying. If the Trump campaign plans to go there, it is pretty simple to demonstrate that now more than ever the U.S. needs a Commander-in-Chief not a Whiner-in-Chief.

    Reply
  4. AgLander October 5, 2016

    It is most notable how even the most ardent Clinton apologists and sycophants are hiding in the bushes this morning and licking their wounds after Kaine’s catastrophically embarrassing performance…….the sound of crickets is refreshing!

    Reply
    1. Bren Frowick October 5, 2016

      Console yourself with that while it lasts. Trump was undercutting his running mate’s stylistic “victory” (on substance, the catalog of lies he pile up was mountainous) all night, tweeting and retweeting madly with insults and white supremacist propaganda until his staff must have simply grabbed the phone away from him and used it to simply post their pre-prepared press statements.

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

        Trumpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Trumpty Dumpty had a great fall. All the Trump horse and all the Trump’s “men” couldn’t put Trumpty together again…roflmao.

        Reply
    2. The lucky one October 5, 2016

      You mean like you did after Trump’s laughably pathetic performance?

      Reply
      1. AgLander October 5, 2016

        I bet Kaine is dying a slow “Mafia style” death this morning……his fellow Dem’s shaking his hand, while smiling and telling him “good job” but then stabbing him in the back after he leaves the room, calling him a worthless loser who never should have been allowed on that stage.

        Reply
        1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

          Please…The Mafia doesn’t deal with men like Pence. He wouldn’t ever be able to swear to “Omerta.”

          Reply
        2. The lucky one October 5, 2016

          You mean like the Republicans did in private but ere too cowardly to do in public after Trump’s pathetic performance.

          Reply
          1. Jon October 5, 2016

            I think Ag is making reference to Trump’s mafia connections.

            Reply
    3. iamproteus October 5, 2016

      Aggie says some of the stupidest things!
      Never anything of substance.
      Always insulting.
      Obvious lies. Never even a grain of truth.
      A paragon of the republican version of virtue.

      Reply
  5. Leftout October 5, 2016

    Mike Pence said it Best about Trumps more direct style. Trump is not a Politicain and speaks as we all do at a friendly bar . He does not polish his words but relates to the common man, that we all are . Trump can relate to executive ? Bankers as well as the construction workers and other multilevel staff that make the world spin . Mike Pence was excellent in explaining Trumps views that we know are correct when placed in context of the times . Even Billl Clinton validates that Obamas ACA was “crazy” in that the workers / businesses are paying for Freebee ACA .

    Reply
    1. sigrid28 October 5, 2016

      Here is the problem with what you say, for women and minorities. You speak eloquently for what you call “the common man.” But you do not speak for all voters in the United States. If you do not see that, you are very naïve.

      Reply
      1. AgLander October 5, 2016

        Hold on just a minute there……There is no problem with what he said…..the problem is that you just don’t appreciate hearing it. I guess that makes YOU the problem! You seem to look with disdain at the “common man”….indication that you are a bigoted elitist just like Hillary Clinton and her long list of despised “deplorables, irredeemables and millennial basement dwellers”.

        Reply
        1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

          Most people don’t like hearing lies. Starting with you. Your posts are 100% pure drivel and not a single fact is ever posted by you that is provable.

          You seem to think you are oh so superior. Wrong. You are about as superior as any other grain of sand on the Sahara.

          Reply
          1. AgLander October 5, 2016

            I’m superior to you, that I will admit……but that only makes me average, so I have work to do!

            Reply
          2. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Superior to me? Wow…how deluded do you plan to get? You can’t keep up with me on any level. You aren’t average…you are so far below average that jacking that stupid male ego is your entire life’s work. They don’t give awards for egomaniacal life’s work.

            Reply
          3. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Watch yourself, Ellie……the lower you classify me only is hurting yourself because I’ll always have to look down to see you!

            Reply
          4. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Wrong…It is my duty to my sense of honor to cast liars, crooks and CON men with the same label. Low class, low breeding and low intelligence.

            But then, I am not the only one who notices that you love to dig and trash others and then like a spoiled little child can’t take it when someone gives as good as they got from you.

            Reply
          5. AgLander October 5, 2016

            And I’m dealing with such a classy lady, a person of charm and manners!

            Reply
          6. Dan S October 5, 2016

            Yes you are dealing with someone of great class & integrity. Please tell me after Secretary Clinton becomes Madame President you take your snide snotty comments somewhere else ????

            Reply
          7. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            AG has a problem with the word “class.” That’s clear from his support of Humpty Trumpty. I practically cut my teeth on Trumpty’s PR since the day his Daddy sent him to military school.

            Reply
          8. idamag October 5, 2016

            Class, ag would never be among my associates. They would find his lack of education boring,boring,boring.

            Reply
          9. AgLander October 5, 2016

            ….and you are? please tell us more!

            Reply
          10. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            No AG..YOU tell US more…Like why you love to ask ALL the questions and never give any ANSWERS….replaying the Paul Ryan Act?

            Reply
          11. Dan S October 5, 2016

            You are really on fire this morning. Please tell us about class and manners regarding Fuhrer Trumps comments. He got beat badly in his first debate & it’ll only get worse on Sunday with a Town Hall debate. I’ll be interested if you are so chatty on Monday ????

            Reply
          12. idamag October 5, 2016

            Bullies refer to themselves in the plural. …’Please tell US more.

            Reply
          13. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            You bet you are. I have friends in high places that would make your hair (what’s left of it) curl.

            Reply
          14. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Friends “in high places”? I hear prisons are often built on high ground for better perimeter security so I’ll concede your claim.

            Reply
          15. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Sorry, NJ has only one prison. We are not like YOUR state, a for profit prison industry state that uses MY taxes to stuff prisons to the ceiling to claim more federal funding. But you’d know high places wouldn’t you? I understand that your prison warden allows you on the computer every morning.

            Reply
          16. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Confirms my comment…..so, how many “high” friends do you have there that make you so disgruntled?

            Reply
          17. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            I am not answering any more of YOUR questions, until you get off your duff and start answering a few of mine. Sorry..game’s up for you buster.

            Reply
          18. AgLander October 5, 2016

            At least I stopped you from the vile cursing. See? Progress!

            Reply
          19. jmprint October 5, 2016

            I think AG has earned “A$$hole of the year” award.

            Reply
          20. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Is there a monetary recognition for such an award or just the pleasure of grinding you Clinton loving libs up like a wood chipper?

            Reply
          21. iamproteus October 5, 2016

            Aggie says some of the stupidest things!
            Never anything of substance.
            Always insulting.
            Obvious lies. Never even a grain of truth.
            A paragon of the republican version of virtue.

            Reply
          22. idamag October 5, 2016

            No, an anus has a valuable purpose.

            Reply
          23. idamag October 5, 2016

            Trump is who he is. A person who admires a mob-type person who cheats, lies, and steals his way to the top is someone you don’t want to do business with.

            Reply
        2. yabbed October 5, 2016

          Actually, it is Donald Trump who shows disdain for the ordinary American. He freeloads his way to a fancy pants gold plated lifestyle while the rest of us pay the taxes to keep our country running. He stiffs ordinary Americans by refusing to pay them for their services and labor. He goes bankrupt as a convenience and a money making scheme, leaving his creditors holding the empty bag. His rants about fat and ugly women, about old and ugly women, about stupid and flat chested women, his admittance on tape that he does not have respect for women is just indication of his personal insufficiencies. The man needs a mental health intervention asap. There is something seriously wrong with Donald Trump.

          Reply
          1. plc97477 October 5, 2016

            The conald has also insulted his base many times and they don’t seem to notice or care.

            Reply
      2. Leftout October 5, 2016

        I also speak for women also who are represented on all levels of working people , the voters that represent Bernie and Trump are somewhat of the same mindset and want corruption to end so that our earnings can be ours . As I say the ten trillion in deficit run-ups over the past 10 years is equivalent to approx 60k for each couple in the US. This could of been used more effectively by all of us to fill most of our personal needs . Where is any benefit to the working person from this deficit spending ….. Anyone ?

        Reply
        1. The lucky one October 5, 2016

          “I also speak for women also who are represented on all levels of working people”
          Really? Who speaks for the “common people” Trump has stiffed over the years.

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Bernie Sanders has already stated 3 times that Trump is a dangerous man and that any of the BernieCrats who vote for him do not represent the Sanders platform. But you have Republicans who got on board the Sanders train only to infiltrate it and to bash Hillary. Their hatred of Hillary is as the Wall Street Journal executive board member, Dorothy Rabinowitz stated, “is senseless.” She should know. She used to be among the “IN Crowd” who hung out with Trumpty and Roy Cohn at Cohn’s parties as she stated.

            Reply
        2. jmprint October 5, 2016

          The republicans DO NOT represent women in anything, not on equality, not on rights, not on leadership.

          Reply
          1. Leftout October 5, 2016

            Wrong!!!! I work with many women in leadership and most of them Are equals and often are my …superiors ….on organizational charts anyway. Democrats as Bill Clinton , only treat women as equal sex mates. At least republican men are responsible and faith based and support thier women as Trumps does with Marla Maples . He does not just toss them aside as the Big ? Bill.
            Even Moslems Have five women or more and do not toss them aside , unless the wives do not put out , then one can behead them and get another if they have 2 males as witnesses ….. Wow what a mans’ life Sharia law can be ….. I am Thinking of converting to Pray and Lay , or is it Pay for Play……only in America .

            Reply
          2. jmprint October 5, 2016

            So you work with them, it doesn’t mean that the republicans represent them. At least Bill treats women as “equal sex mates”, Trump treats them like second class citizens. The rest of your posting is spontaneous combustion coming out of your a$$.

            Reply
          3. Jon October 5, 2016

            You are wasting time replying to him. He promotes war crimes and has little to no knowledge of anything he says. Why didn’t Trump charge he Saudis, Khaddaffi, or Iranians higher rents when renting to them like he did his campaign when he stopped “self-funding” it? Maybe he would have earned enough income to pay federal income taxes like patriotic hardworking Americans do. Oh wait, he’s not patriotic. He violated the Cuba embargo by spending money there and the Iran embargo by renting to an Iranian bank which was also tied to funding terrorists. Maybe his secret plan to defeat ISIS is to stop renting to financial institutions that help fund them.

            Reply
          4. idamag October 5, 2016

            To Trump, it seems women are objects to be purchased. He culls out those by numbers: breast size, hit size, waist size, etc. He told Carly Fiorina she was too ugly to be president. He called Miss Universe a fat pig. He called Rosie O’Donnell the same. There are women who worked for him that are coming out with more of how women are objects and they better be objects d’art

            Reply
          5. Leftout October 5, 2016

            You are rude, Ido work with them , for them And play with them , I find them great company. Trump only treats deplorable ones with indignation , reminding them Of proper ways of presenting themselves for the occasion. Ms Universe looks ok but for a beauty contest she has to meet the universal standards of beauty . Some ethnic groups like the big butt and mammary look , but most accept, at best , perky tumescance….. The Jennifer Lopez look should be the limit of corpulence , even for Latinas.

            Reply
          6. jmprint October 5, 2016

            No Leftout you are the rude one. How dare you try to stuff that male chauvinist, sexist racist, narcissistic, bankruptist, neofascist, corruptist, capitalist, rapist, tax dodger down our throats. He is the scum of the earth, and the deplorables are the white nationalist that think they are better then all, so no you don’t have a right to call me rude.

            Reply
          7. Leftout October 5, 2016

            I see you have no sense of humor and Trump is not a racist, I never saw HIM kiss a KKK grand PUBah as Hillary did . But she is a Southerner living in Chappaqua , hiding her love of the unwashed.

            Reply
          8. sigrid28 October 5, 2016

            I don’t know where to start with this. It is just so goofy!

            Reply
        3. Bill P October 5, 2016

          You speak for no one but yourself, you have to get over these “delusions of grandeur”. The country’s “debt’ has increased every year since at least 1980. You know when that great saint of Conservatism was in office. The only year that the “debt” actually decreased was in 1999 when the next president’s husband was in office. The annual “deficit” rose from $462 billion in 2002 to $1.6 trillion in 2009. Since then it has decreased to $780 billion in 2015 and is on track to be even lower by the fiscal end of 2016. If you have a president start 2 wars while lowering tax revenue you are going to have large deficits.

          Reply
          1. Leftout October 5, 2016

            Ah you see now, a business man would have taken the oil and paid for the debt for freeing Iraqis and shared the remainder with their remaining population till they again became corrupt. Unfortunately the neighboring gulf states did not participate in sending troops for actually saving thier own Saudi living standards, these Saudis also should have contributed most to the cost of the war on thier borders…..pig chips that they are . No MAS!

            Reply
          2. Bill P October 6, 2016

            So you are advocating the stealing of another country’s assets!
            As for “freeing” the Iraqis it seems you have overlooked what happened after Iraq was liberated. The Ba’athists were disarmed and chaos reigned in Iraq. Sunni and Shiites started basically a civil war there, killing tens of thousands of people.

            Reply
          3. Leftout October 6, 2016

            Non, not stealing, just enough for reparations for Iraqi freedom. The US generally does not take booty , but in this case the US negotiators should have skimmed a few barrels to pay and the US should have controlled the economy until infrastructures were built from oil sales , eliminated Islam as a state religion, with a resultant Nirvana. In previous wars there was not much booty to make reparations and The US actually helped out the vanquished..

            Reply
          4. Bill P October 7, 2016

            So invading a country on bogus data then taking their biggest asset isn’t stealing, sounds like it to me. You state that the US generally doesn’t take booty, well they also don’t invade countries thereby starting a war. You do have some weird ideas about the world. Staying in Iraq till the infrastructure was built, eliminating the major religion of the country is some neocon’s wet dream. Aside from being totally against our country’s beliefs, it is would be insanely costly in lives and dollars. Money from Iraq oil, if it could even be drilled and taken out of the country would not be enough to cover the costs of your ludicrous plan.

            Reply
          5. Leftout October 7, 2016

            Iraq is considered to be one of the largest oil exporters and certainly has enough money to pay for infrastructure for their people.
            Certainly the war was called on faulty data supplied from experienced !!!?? foreign service groups and okd by many countries as well as the very experienced ???! Hillary. Trumps gut -low political – experience as well as Bernie told them that this is not a good idea.

            Some of islams surahs should be reformed except , that praying should be made mandatory all day and getting a lay from Infinite number of wives should be encouraged to take up the rest of the day , to keep these people from creating mischief. Beheading of wives for not putting out should continue of course and throwing gays off of rooftops should be limited to a 10 ft limit . Islam , other wise should be outlawed by the UN.

            Reply
          6. Bill P October 10, 2016

            Per the Iraq Oil report “The Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) is again lagging on funds to international oil companies (IOC), following a public commitment to contractual terms in 2016 and six months of corresponding payments that built up optimism in the sector.Of the seven IOCs that are developing KRG-controlled fields and are contractually owed payments, at least six are awaiting pay for production from as far back as July estimated at $155 million in total.“ So the oil revenue isn’t doing as well as you imply. That aside you advocate the committing of a crime by the US government by stealing another country’s assets.
            As for invading Iraq Trump was in favor of it initially. He also was in favor of attacking Libya. You take on the entire Muslim religion is so utterly biased that it’s ludicrous and inane.

            Reply
          7. Leftout October 10, 2016

            I am not sure what percentage is KRH of Iraqi oil, but Iraq certainly is one of the top 5 producers and is able to pay some reparations for their freedom?? The US does not have to steal it . Trump was very reticent about his comment to Stern about the Iraq war , ,certainly not wildly in favor of it, for the reasons Trump indicated.
            My comments about Moslem
            / Islam is totally biased based on their profile of being mischievous, what controls would you place on these barbarians of the 6th century.

            Reply
          8. Bill P October 11, 2016

            First try to remember that the people of Iraq didn’t ask to be invaded by the US and 500K Iraqis have been killed since the invasion. Secondly your 1st claim was “a business man would have taken the oil and paid for the debt for freeing Iraqis”. Taking the oil sure sounds like stealing and while the US got rid of a dictator Iraq was divided by a civil war between the Sunni and Shiite factions. Iraq is hardly the democracy that was promised by the GW Bush administration.
            Any extreme form of any religion is dangerous and has to be dealt with. Islam is not the only religion to have an extreme faction. Just look at the history of Christianity with the Reformation and Counter Reformation along with the Spanish Inquistion.

            Reply
          9. Leftout October 11, 2016

            Hate to say this but , Iraq turned out to be a mess as Trump and many others suspected . If the religious factions could have been neutered and a psuedo sectarian government set up with US help and years of oversight it may have reformed. Dick Cheney remarked there is way in hell that Iraq would be a theocracy. We got out to soon , after a bad decision , in the first place. Christianity would not have needed any reformation if it had simply followed the humanistic golden rule of its founder.

            It seems that Politicians can even invade the domaine of dung beetles.

            Reply
          10. Bill P October 12, 2016

            Well you can blame GW Bush and Cheney for getting the country into this Iraq quagmire. I know Hillary voted for the 2002 Congressional Resolution which authorized President Bush, under strict requirements of the 1973 War Powers Act, to use force, Section 3(b) of the Act also required that sanctions or diplomacy be fully employed before force was used, i.e. force was to be used only as “necessary and appropriate in order to defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq,” and to do so only upon the President certifying to Congress that “diplomatic or other peaceful means” would be insufficient to defang Saddam. Clinton and 76 other Senators voted for this Resolution.

            That’s a big “if” that never happened that “may” have resulted a reformed Iraq government. There was nothing definite in your claim. As for Cheney in 2015 he still claimed “At one stage, the Cheneys write that “history will be the ultimate judge of our decision to liberate Iraq.” But just two pages later, as if unable to resist re-engaging the issue, they describe the late Iraqi president Saddam Hussein as a “grave threat to the United States” before concluding: “We were right to invade and remove him from power.”

            They even insist that U.S. troops “were in fact greeted as liberators,” just as Dick Cheney predicted before the invasion—a quote that Bush administration critics have frequently hung around his neck.” As for getting out too soon, the US the withdrawal of troops started in 2007 147,000 troops there, in 11/2008 US signs an accord requiring the US to withdraw its forces by the end of 2011. Even the UN withdrew its troop training forces at the end of 2011. The US was in Iraq for over 8 years and almost 4,500 troops died there. Staying in Iraq wouldn’t have accomplished anything more.

            Your comment “Christianity would not have needed any reformation if it had simply followed the humanistic golden rule of its founder.” Well people didn’t and still don’t follow the words of Jesus. Instead back then they burned people at the stake, torture them on the rack, used other horrible devices to maim and kill. Now we just use bombs and other more modern devices to do this.

            Reply
          11. Leftout October 12, 2016

            I was there and I fully agree. It was a terrible error , the Saudis should have been named instead .

            Reply
          12. idamag October 5, 2016

            Wars, infrastructure, military all cost money. If you destroy the tax base by giving astronomical breaks to the greedy. you end up with a deficit. If trump does not pay taxes, the middle class picks up the slack for people like him.

            Reply
    2. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

      If Trumpty Dumpty is not a politician, why is he running for president. You just caught yourself in a huge mess there….The only reason for a business man to run for president is to turn the government into a business…and you as an unpaid employee of Trumpty Dumpty’s business.

      Reply
      1. Leftout October 5, 2016

        Some one said that running for office is the only ” occupation ” that has no pre- requisites . It is plain to see that our highly educated Congress with centuries of collective experience has
        Done little. There are few entrepreneurial types giving up thier winnings to run for office ,
        Save Bloomberg or Trump. These people have a keener decision making process going on than overly deliberative lawyer /political types.

        Reply
        1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

          There is no comparison of Trump to Bloomberg. Michael Bloomberg has called Trump, “a dangerous demogogue” on several occasions. The former Mayor of NY City ought to know Trump best.

          Trump is pure slime. It’s too bad Leona Helmsley isn’t here to enjoy burying Trump. Not to worry, Marla Maples once warned Trump if he dared try to run for president, she’d gladly make sure his entire dirty past was hung out on the line.

          Reply
          1. Leftout October 5, 2016

            Marla Maples is quiet and seems to know a good support system , and Trump is honorable in taking care of that offspring. Bloomberg on the other hand lives in sin with his girl ? friend and does not want to make a commitment to her , I guess he must be quite a guy in the rack, some women do not mind how big the rack is .

            Reply
          2. idamag October 5, 2016

            Some think it was Marla Maples who sent the tax form showing how he is paying no taxes for 17 years.

            Reply
        2. Dan S October 5, 2016

          If a Presidential nominee was required to either have held elective office higher than Mayor or served their country like Ike Trump would not have been qualified to run. Maybe just maybe Congress might consider adding an Amendment to the Constitution to weed out flakes like Trump

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Dan…right now Trump can’t set foot in NJ. He stiffed the contractors here who built his 2 casinos. He also refused to pay the hotel and casino workers he unemployed when he was forced to close the casinos for money laundering to terrorists.

            So you bet they’d love to build Trump a cement coat and use him for a bridge support.

            Reply
          2. Leftout October 5, 2016

            Being elected goes against your argument , we the” Deplorables” elected Trump, so now he IS qualified to continue his quest of reforming the system .

            Reply
          3. Dan S October 5, 2016

            How is he going to reform the system when he’s really a part of it ? He’ll just get the USA reduced to junk bond status with his business acumen. My point is we need a President who knows how to run the government & not enrich themselves from it

            Reply
          4. Leftout October 5, 2016

            Then everyone in Congress , minus a precious few , must resign immediately . We can have Hillary as a consultant to guide any new candidates .

            Reply
      2. idamag October 5, 2016

        Or, as trump has said, to cut taxes for the job creators. How did that work when Reagan and the child, baby bush, did it?

        Reply
    3. yabbed October 5, 2016

      Barroom insults are not appropriate as a world leader. Apparently Republicans consider lying simply a “direct style” of speaking.

      Should the USA put Trump on the world stage we would be laughed off of it. We would lose our leadership role in the world.

      Reply
      1. Leftout October 5, 2016

        We have lost our leadership in the world already from pretentious , self righteous negotiations with others. Bar room conversations are fairly civil at ruby Tuesdays , Applebee’s and Hyatts in SFO as well as the “Diner” on Phillips in Sioux Falls. These places present better solutions to world problems than “experienced”! ? foreign service staff .

        Reply
      2. plc97477 October 5, 2016

        Apparently cons consider lying “telling it like it is”.

        Reply
      3. idamag October 5, 2016

        Trump is who they are.

        Reply
    4. The lucky one October 5, 2016

      “Trump is not a Politicain and speaks as we all do at a friendly bar” Only if we want our teeth knocked out, or like Trump have hired thugs to protect us.

      Reply
      1. idamag October 5, 2016

        I think Trump acts like a mobster. He has friends in the mob. He pays no taxes and claims that is good business. He has claimed bankruptcy 6 times and claims that is good business. He negotiates with banks to pay them less than he owes them. He makes his money off gambling. He ordered 100,000 dollars worth of pianos, for his Taj mahal Casino. He signed that $100,000 contract with J. Michael Diehl of Freehold Music Center of Freehold, New Jersey. Payment was to be 90 days. When several months went by and Diehl needed to pay his supplier, Trump offered him $70,000. He said he could not afford to sue trump and took the loss of $30,000.

        Reply
        1. The lucky one October 6, 2016

          What puzzles me is why vendors continue to do business with him. Maybe now that his pattern of stiffing people who work for or sell him things has been made clear to all they will boycott his businesses.

          Reply
          1. idamag October 6, 2016

            One of those things I cannot understand. He has been sued 22 times with settlements out of court. He owed the state of New Jersey a big tax bill and Christie reduced it. How come? This man is a criminal.

            Reply
    5. AgLander October 5, 2016

      Good analysis!

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

        What’s good about it AG? Since when should any government be a business? And if it is, what are you? Trump’s unpaid employee?

        Reply
      2. Leftout October 5, 2016

        You are certainly a well learned, astute individual .

        Reply
    6. jmprint October 5, 2016

      If Trump can’t act like a politician, maybe he should continue to do what he does best, screw people out of their money.

      Reply
      1. Leftout October 5, 2016

        The Congress /politicians are already “screwing ” us out of earnings . It should be mandatory that Congress be made to work one year out of their lives in the real world. Trump is doing it correctly he uses time honored business rules , promulgated by Congress and the IRS. Both groups should be made to resign and start over .

        Reply
        1. AgLander October 5, 2016

          Please…stop making sense……it is not well received by the Clinton lemmings!

          Reply
          1. Leftout October 5, 2016

            Shhhh, Clinton lemmings do not read this site .

            Reply
  6. yabbed October 5, 2016

    Republicans just lie. They can’t help themselves.

    Reply
    1. FireBaron October 5, 2016

      It’s their normal way of speaking

      Reply
      1. AgLander October 5, 2016

        Translation…..disagree with a liberal and you are a liar. Agree with them and you are bi-partisan. It’s been that way for decades.

        Reply
        1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

          Translation: Disagree with a CONman and he’ll con the last dime out of your pocket.

          Reply
          1. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Better than trying to con them out of their money from poorly written books that no one wants!.

            Reply
          2. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            I was paid royalty moron. You? You get paid for pimping out your Mommy.

            Reply
        2. yabbed October 5, 2016

          It was a display by Pence of outright lies. Disagreement is one thing; lying is another. Republicans lie. They can’t help themselves.

          Reply
  7. Ed Pilwallis October 5, 2016

    While Kaine looked vibrant and animated on the left of the screen, Pence looked like he was just embalmed and escaped his coffin to delver line after line of lies trying to cover up the lies of Freeloader Parasite Trump.

    Reply
    1. AgLander October 5, 2016

      Vibrant and animated is your wounded way of describing a scowling and grumpy Kaine who made a fool of himself and the polls show it……the only thing he did well last night was gulp water by the gallons!

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

        We give Oscars to actors who do the best animation job. Not candidates for VP.

        Reply
        1. AgLander October 5, 2016

          Speaking of trying to go through life living a make believe existence, look no further than in the nearest mirror, Ellie! Sell any books yet?

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Speaking of liars, your butt on fire yet AG? You are really really jealous that I CAN write books and you can do is make up lies to post. What’s the going rate these days for liar trolls AG? Come out…out with it. We all know you post lies day after day. No job? How much do they pay you per word to post drivel you have NO PROOF of now or ever?

            Reply
          2. AgLander October 5, 2016

            If I agree to purchase the first book you’ve ever sold, will you agree to remove all the dust from the cover and repair the chew marks from the mice that got to it in your basement?

            Reply
          3. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Please don’t buy it. I don’t ever want royalties from you. And as for rats…you would know vermin much better than I.

            Reply
          4. Eleanore Whitaker October 7, 2016

            AG …Write ANY books lately? Oh that’s right…You can’t spell, much less write an intelligent sentence.

            I go through life facing reality. You? You are one deluded jerk no one really agrees with. That “should” be your first clue. But, a numbnut like you has a serious problem with an ego that supposes you are Grand Pubbah of Upper Butt Crack.

            So, tell us AG…what is your big claim to fame? Had any jobs lately that actually paid you other than trolling on these sites? Accomplish anything remotely noteworthy? Proved your intelligence with a technical white paper that got commendations and awards? Course not. Big mouths that flap like a motor never do.

            Reply
      2. itsfun October 5, 2016

        Wonder if he went in his pants? He had a couple of funny expressions, like what did I just do or I did it again.

        Reply
        1. AgLander October 5, 2016

          Good one!

          Reply
        2. itsfun October 5, 2016

          I doubt if Trump is easy on Hillary again in the next debate. He will talk about email, Benghazi, her trying to arm Syria. He will bring up questions about pay to play. He will destroy her.

          Reply
          1. Ed Pilwallis October 7, 2016

            A noun, a verb and Bengazi. A noun, a verb and e-mails. A total lack of substance. Lies, lies and more lies. The Republican trademark.

            Reply
          2. itsfun October 7, 2016

            email, play for pay, Benghazi, How many government owned emails has Hillary illegally deleted. All documents of a government official are government property and the government is the only legal agency allowed to decided what is private and not private. Hillary made this decision on her own by making the determination. That is illegally destroying government documents whether you like it or not. Now today it was reported that 2 more boxes of her emails have suddenly disappeared. Yet you still defend this criminal.

            Reply
  8. Bren Frowick October 5, 2016

    “Pence, it seems, is playing the Michael Palin part in Monty Python’s famous Dead Parrot sketch: denying the obvious to an infinitely absurd degree.” — David Corn
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xoh8j_monty-python-dead-parrot-sketch_news

    Reply
  9. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

    Pence has style alright. The same slicky slick boy style Trump had back in the 70s. Butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth back then and all that strutting and swaggering and showing off and now look what he’s done…outed every crook CEO in the country.

    Pence was a failure as IN governor and the people there would tell the rest of the country that. He destroyed their education system by insisting on making huge cuts. Now, IN ranks at the bottom for schools with the worst educational systems in the country.

    Sure, gut education, healthcare and then jack up military spending for Republican states. Just what we all wanted…being the sole support of Republican states.

    Reply
  10. FireBaron October 5, 2016

    Want to drive a fact-checker crazy? Make him watch a Republican debate!

    Reply
    1. AgLander October 5, 2016

      The easiest job is being a liberal that has been hired to be a Democrat fact checker during a debate because they put in ear plugs and wear blinders!

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

        The easiest job of liberals? Bashing hell out of lying, crooked CONmen like you AG.

        Reply
      2. The lucky one October 5, 2016

        Aggie, where you been? You were conspicuous by your absence after Trump’s horrendous performance.

        Reply
        1. AgLander October 5, 2016

          I’m here and always have been! Still got rug burns from last night’s performance of masterDEbater Kaine? I bet Hillary is “warmly” greeting him this morning….think lamps being thrown and vile cursing.

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Nope, I consider Kaine to be the winner. Kaine will always be a winner like Hillary will always be a winner. That takes hard work to accomplish. Something the swaggering, drawling hick good ole boys hate most: WORK. After all, they manage to do nothing for the past 8 years haven’t they?

            Reply
          2. AgLander October 5, 2016

            You’re a good girl, a good sycophant……now go to the big tub in the corner and dip the ladle for your morning drink of Kool-Aid!

            Reply
          3. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            I’m a honorable, truthful American. You are some misguided anti-American, anti-democracy bully who just happened to get involved with a woman like me far too intelligent to allow you to continue that path to hell.

            Reply
          4. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Heh, heh……intelligence and you are like oil and water….they don’t mix and never will!

            Reply
          5. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Intelligence and you are not like oil and water. You have no oil and no water and NO intelligence. Why do you keep posting? You add nothing of real value to a thread.

            Reply
          6. AgLander October 5, 2016

            You leave first…..go on…let me see your rear end passing through the threshold!

            Reply
          7. plc97477 October 5, 2016

            Let him go. Wish him good luck and let him go.

            Reply
          8. Aaron_of_Portsmouth October 5, 2016

            And you’re a good girl, Agatha. Although you aspire to look like Hillary, your level of intelligence matches Trump’s which is far less than that of any woman’s. Eleanore is eating your lunch, but you’re in a stupor and don’t realize it.

            Reply
          9. AgLander October 5, 2016

            go take a nap…..

            Reply
          10. Dan S October 5, 2016

            And there was the RNC saying Pence had won BEFORE the debate. Why even have a debate if they were going to be fortune tellers ? I sure don’t know how you score a debate but Kaine won hands down. At least Pence wasn’t a complete goof like Trump was

            Reply
          11. AgLander October 5, 2016

            They knew going in what a maniacal psycho Kaine was so it really wasn’t necessary to wait for what they knew was coming…..Kaine was a train wreck in waiting.

            Reply
          12. Dan S October 5, 2016

            That’s your argument? They knew Kaine would bomb ? Let’s just say that the outcome of this debate won’t change anyone’s mind either way. Both VP’s came to make the case why their candidate should be President. Pence is obviously a more polished politician & not as argumentive as Trump but there were still a lot of lies & 1/2 truths coming from him. Again when you watch the Town Hall debate on Sunday Trump will have people ROTFL ????

            Reply
          13. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Normally I’d agree…..but this was so one sided, so dramatically a demonstration of the stark difference in the quality of the two men that I believe it will have a significant impact because Kaine exposed himself as totally unqualified by temperament and lack of substance to be a president if called upon due to necessity. He flopped so badly from the start to the end that it has to make people have serious thoughts about him being placed in the 2nd slot behind a person of already questionable health and longevity.

            Reply
          14. Dan S October 5, 2016

            Apparently we both watched different debates. I saw Kaine clearly in control & I saw Pence several times to talk over the moderator. It was very unsettling to watch. Interestingly if Trump was the VP everyone today would be questioning the judgement of Pence picking an unhinged running mate. Better luck in 2020 finding a credible candidate. And as far as Hillary’s health is concerned it’s just fine. Walking pneumonia which I had a couple years ago isn’t the death knell. I’d be concerned with Trumps habit of feasting on fast food, no exercise & lack of quality sleep ????

            Reply
          15. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Yeah right…….that’s the story they are forwarding….”non contagious” pneumonia. There is no such thing as non contagious pneumonia because the germs that cause it can spread from person to person which tells us she has something completely unrelated to the line of bull they are feeding the media. But then, another day, another lie from Clinton is nothing to draw much attention to anymore…..it’s as predictable as the sun rising!

            Reply
          16. The lucky one October 5, 2016

            Like with so many other things you are woefully misinformed. Pneumonia may be contagious if it is caused by an infectious microbe. But if pneumonia is caused by chemical fumes or other poisons, then it is not contagious.

            The different types of pneumonia stem from their cause. For example, there is bacterial pneumonia and viral pneumonia. Most of the types of pneumonia are contagious, but not as contagious as the flu, for example.

            If treatment for pneumonia is administered early on, then the time pneumonia is contagious for is shorter. For example, a person with bacterial pneumonia will stop being contagious within two days of taking antibiotics. On the other hand, individuals with viral pneumonia are less contagious after symptoms have subsided.

            I know it’s pointless to try to educate you but I thought others might actually want to know.

            Reply
          17. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Correct….and the chances of one catching pneumonia from ‘fumes” is so infinitesimally small that it is impossible to even quantify.

            Reply
          18. The lucky one October 6, 2016

            Ah yes, a typical Trumpster statement. Toss off a comment about something you have no knowledge of as if it was a fact.

            How about Trump’s truly laughable attempt to pass off a “medical report” that he very obviously wrote himself?

            Reply
          19. The lucky one October 5, 2016

            If having “exposed himself as totally unqualified by temperament and lack of substance to be a president” really mattered in this election Trump would have been gone long ago.

            Reply
          20. Blueberry Hill October 5, 2016

            It’s their pattern of lies. They lie about who won, before the debate has even started. Maybe they didn’t intend to make it so obvious and just posted it too soon? Naaaa, they just can’t help lying, it is in their dark unholy souls.

            ..

            Reply
          21. Aaron_of_Portsmouth October 5, 2016

            Yeah, we knew you were lurking in the shadows. Your scent is unmistakable, and you still love being a masochist. Well, we’re only to happy to give you your daily lashings. You obviously enjoy being humiliated publicly, unlike Donald who abhors being exposed for his indiscretions and ignorance.

            Reply
          22. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Rug burns for you too, I see!

            Reply
          23. Aaron_of_Portsmouth October 5, 2016

            A curious non sequitur. But then again, that’s your MO.

            Reply
          24. AgLander October 5, 2016

            “non sequitur”…..Those are the same words uttered by your delivery room doctor when your mother asked what just popped out.

            Reply
          25. Aaron_of_Portsmouth October 5, 2016

            Ah, getting nastier and vulgar—just like your idol and lover, Trump.

            Reply
          26. AgLander October 5, 2016

            Heal thyself, hypocrite……you like to serve it up but not get it dished right back at you!

            Reply
          27. The lucky one October 5, 2016

            No, you were pretty much absent after Trump humiliated himself. I’ll give you credit for having at least enough sense to realize that trying to defend his terrible performance would only accentuate how bad he really was.

            Reply
          28. The lucky one October 5, 2016

            Actually I turned it off after all three, Kaine, Pence and the moderator tried to talk at the same time and I couldn’t understand any of them. What I did see left me unimpressed with either of them but the moderator had my sympathy. I did notice that when Pence was asked if it was fair for Trump to duck paying income tax that he spoke for a few minutes and never once addressed the question.

            Reply
          29. AgLander October 5, 2016

            It’s good you turned it off because you would have had to watch Pence dominate all 90 minutes, Kaine was helpless throughout…..the only thing that Kaine won was the water wars……he was gulping it down all night in huge quantities as if he had been lost in the desert without water for a week. I was almost expecting to see the Culligan Man walk on stage with a 20 gallon jug refill!

            Reply
          30. The lucky one October 5, 2016

            I did watch about 30 minutes and if the rest was like that I’d say there was no winner. Maybe Kaine had a bet he could drink more water than Trump did. If so he lost but it was an unfair match-up given the huge gut Trump has he can hold much more.

            Reply
    2. dtgraham October 5, 2016

      You got that right. Pretty tough to fact check an inter-party Republican debate.

      Republican debate:

      Something….. No actual realistic plan
      Something….. No actual realistic plan
      Something….. No actual realistic plan
      Something….. No actual realistic plan

      Reply
  11. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

    The point of any debate is the issues. Which of the two candidates was able to provide answers to issues?

    When Pence went over and over about Benghazi, his puss was hanging to his chest when Kaine pointed out that Pence voted against the funding Hillary requested. Like a petulant spiteful little boy, Pence then pouted and kept insisting that what Kaine said wasn’t true. Bratty little boys do that to their mommies when mommy knows they are lying.

    Reply
    1. Mama Bear October 5, 2016

      well said.

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

        I have relatives in IN. They HATE Pence. They even tried to remove him from office. Let’s look at the damages. KS, IA, MS, LA, OK and WI all have Republican governors and ALL of those states are tanked in terms of state economy.

        Conservatism has devastated these states. These are also the states with the worst pollution which the rest of us end up paying for. They spend the least on education and yet they get more than the $1 they pay in federal taxes. The question becomes what are CONservatives doing with all that federal tax ROI?

        Reply
        1. Mama Bear October 5, 2016

          Don’t forget Ohio in that list. Ohio is no longer a bellwether state in elections…why? because the demographics do not change – old white conservatives dominate. Privatize schools? Study what has happened in Ohio under Kasich. Kids lose, rich white men win.

          Reply
          1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

            Oh yes…I did forget OH. The thing we all need to remind ourselves after Hillary becomes president is that it is time to cut off our state funding to these states.

            Look what happened in Montana and North Dakota. They were in such a hurry to get into Big Oil. Now, both states have devastating pipeline leaks. Montana, the one state that remained of scenic beauty is now an oil soaked mess.

            Why should the rest of us have to help them with FEMA funding when they KNEW before they got into OIL there were risks?

            Reply
        2. Jon October 5, 2016

          True. I live in one of those states and have had a front row seat to the lies and deception practiced by our governor and the Republican party. They have given tremendous tax breaks to large corporations which have not provided the jobs promised. The tax burden falls most heavily on the middle class who actually pay income taxes. Services which are needed by a large percentage of the population have been severely cut or eliminated. Some services such as those for mental health have nearly been eliminated. The result has been there are a lot of people who are trying to function with mental illnesses which could be treated. Jails and prisons have become holding facilities for those suffering with a mental illness. Police and guards who are not mental health providers have been involuntarily thrust into that role. He has privatized state hospitalization insurance leading to great inefficiency and increased cost. There’s so much more but you get the general picture.

          Reply
          1. idamag October 5, 2016

            I live in Idaho and I have seen brilliant programs scrapped.

            Reply
  12. Mama Bear October 5, 2016

    The second most frightening person to me is Pence. The very thought of that evil-gelical ascending to the Presidency should scare the living crap out of all of us. Look at what he has done to Indiana in the name of his “faith”. Not to mention women, the gay community, etc. etc. etc.

    Reply
    1. Dan S October 5, 2016

      Pence says he gets in his knees everyday. I do too thanking God almighty this country will finally get its first female President. The GOP ticket is a monumental train wreck that’s done nothing but bring bigots, racists & worse out of the closet. This is truly a toxic ticket that America cannot afford

      Reply
      1. Mama Bear October 5, 2016

        can I get an amen, to that, brother:)

        Reply
        1. jmprint October 5, 2016

          Amen sister.

          Reply
      2. Beethoven October 5, 2016

        I wonder if, when Pence is on his knees, he ever thinks to beg forgiveness for his blatant and frequent “bearing false witness” against Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation.

        Reply
        1. idamag October 5, 2016

          And if you break one you break them all.

          Reply
          1. Mama Bear October 5, 2016

            I think….if this whole God thing is in face true…God gave mankind 10 rules. Here they are, do not break them. One of course is “thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” – which is of course everyone. All the rest of the crap these evil-gelicals say is right and wrong is made up to control whomever the writers wanted to control.
            Do you suppose Pence-the-evil-gelical thinks all he has to do is get on his knees and all is well? Don’t think so.

            Reply
          2. Ed Pilwallis October 7, 2016

            Donald, the Parasite Freeloader, thinks all he has to do is drink grape juice and have a cracker at a religeous service for repentance of all of lies, frauds and deceptions. Repentance requires restoration for all of ones misdeeds. This is not in Trump’s playbook – The Devil’s Encyclopedia.

            Reply
          3. Mama Bear October 7, 2016

            Donnie is a raging narcissistic personality disordered individual. His fragile little ego will not permit him to even entertain the idea for one millisecond that he did anything wrong, or lost, or in any other way accept responsibility.

            Reply
    2. jmprint October 5, 2016

      He thinks is above God.

      Reply
      1. itsfun October 5, 2016

        He didn’t give that impression at all. He disagrees with some on abortions, that doesn’t make him above God. One has to ask is aborting a human thinking you are above God?

        Reply
        1. jmprint October 5, 2016

          No, the problem is you want to change definition to suit your religious theories. But so you can understand better

          A Baby is: a very young child, especially one newly or recently born.

          A human being is: a man, woman, or child of the power of articulate speech, and upright stance.

          Fetus: an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.

          The majority of abortion are performed before eight weeks.

          Reply
          1. itsfun October 5, 2016

            What about the babies in the third term? Do they count as humans? How do you believe God would respond to your definition of humans and non-humans?

            Reply
          2. jmprint October 5, 2016

            Yes, and I count those on death row as human beings as well. And as far as how God feels: When men like Guiliani are ask about their adulterous life the claim they are forgiven, I’m sure for those women that for some reason have to have abortion in the third term, for whatever reason are forgiven as well.

            Reply
          3. itsfun October 5, 2016

            I don’t know how God feels, I just ask the question. Guiliani and Bill Clinton are not killing anyone. I am not a religion expert in any way, but I have to wonder if someone aborts a baby in the third term will they be forgiven if they only ask for it, to get into heaven. I know we have doctors and scientists that say a baby isn’t a baby until a certain length of time, but I have to wonder if God says that. I just don’t know and never will be smart enough to say for sure. My personal feelings are if a mother’s life is in danger, or in cases of rape or incest, then abortion should be allowed. If a baby is a “mistake” then I believe that adoption is the best option. I don’t mean to tell any woman what she should or shouldn’t do. Its such a personal and delicate issue. I do know I don’t want coat hangers and back alley abortions coming back for any reason.

            Reply
          4. jmprint October 5, 2016

            If they support the death penalty and one innocent human being gets killed, they have blood on their hands. So yes, they are killers. You don’t have to wonder, all you have to do is read the bible. In the beginning when God created Adam, he lay still, a body of sand, it wasn’t until God breathe life into his nostrils that he had life. When the Lord says I new you before you were born, He speaks of the Spirit. But sinners have to place conviction on others and that’s suppose to set them free of their own sins? God forgives, He already knows what each individual person is going through, He doesn’t need Pence to side and make laws with only the sins that make him feel above God.

            Reply
          5. itsfun October 5, 2016

            That makes me wonder even more. God said I knew you before you were born. Does that make the aborted one a human and not just a fetus without any life or spirit?

            Reply
          6. jmprint October 5, 2016

            no need to wonder: A human being is: a man, woman, or child of the power of articulate speech, and upright stance.

            Reply
          7. idamag October 5, 2016

            Yes, it says in the Bible, if you break one of the Ten Commandments, you break them all. So Trump and Guiliani have broken them all.

            Reply
          8. latebloomingrandma October 5, 2016

            I don’t know, but the second creation story in Genesis has God breathing into the human formed out of clay. Sounds like when you breathe on you own, you are now a born and independent human, separate from your mother.

            Reply
          9. itsfun October 5, 2016

            What about the part that reports God told Adam he knew him before he was born? What does that mean? I don’t know the answers to this, I truly doubt if any human does.

            Reply
          10. latebloomingrandma October 6, 2016

            I don’t know the answer to that either.

            Reply
          11. itsfun October 6, 2016

            I can’t believe any mere mortal can possibly know the answer either.

            Reply
          12. idamag October 5, 2016

            Anti abortionists are hypocrites. Life is not just the tiny dot. Life is the children dying from dirty water and malnutrition in Africa. Life is frightened children driven from their homes and orphaned in Syria. Life is the frightened little children, whose mothers was willing to send them alone into the U.S. and they were met by a busload of loud screaming women. Life needs proper nutrition and medical care for babies and children. Life needs education in order to cope in this world. Life was the teen age boy gunned down on his way home with ice tea and skittles.

            Reply
          13. jmprint October 5, 2016

            Yes, they are hypocrites, but it really isn’t about the baby, it’s about the fetus. Why is it that a women can’t count that fetus as a dependent until it takes it’s first breath on it’s own?

            Reply
          14. Mama Bear October 7, 2016

            besides that, life begins at birth, not conception. Even their own Bible tells them that.

            Reply
    3. itsfun October 5, 2016

      What has he done to the gay community, women, etc.etc.etc.?

      Reply
      1. Dittodaisy14 October 5, 2016

        Ask the sane people of Indiana…they are there…I was for 8 years right around the time Pence barely won the District or whatever it was he ran for…. it was quite the battle and I remember a lot of disgust for him although being new to the state I really didn’t pay a lot of attention…Remember wondering later after leaving the state how he ever got elected to higher status…the people I know don’t want him back, although he will be after losing in November…hopefully it will make more eyes open though and he will lose his next bid for reelection too…

        Reply
        1. itsfun October 5, 2016

          All politicians will have people that like or dislike them. Sometimes its just because of what party they belong to. That doesn’t answer what he did to the gays, women, etc.etc.etc. The little town I live in wants Trump by about a 70% margin. That doesn’t mean a darn thing about him getting or not getting elected.

          Reply
        2. AgLander October 5, 2016

          Duh! Which is proof you hang around with the wrong people!

          Reply
    4. latebloomingrandma October 5, 2016

      That is so, but Cruz freaked me out more. Too smarmy.

      Reply
      1. Mama Bear October 5, 2016

        Oh crap….I forgot all about that creep! Let’s make Pence #3….for now:)

        Reply
  13. Aaron_of_Portsmouth October 5, 2016

    Pence lived up to what we expected—a weasel of a human who would do anything to maintain a self-centered personae of both he and his alpha mate, Donald.

    As with most establishment Republicans, neat attire, combed hair, a dogged and fanatical attachment to a rigid conservative ideology(that has been placed on a dais and worshiped as an idol), and style are far more important than honesty, humility, contrition, and a concern for the well-being of all of humanity.

    If anything, all these debates, particularly the Barnum and Bailey Circus 3-Ring Circus called the Republican Debates, have shown the Conservatives to be largely vapid, tedious, ignorant, churlish, and essentially a lifeless motley crew drawing handsome salaries for which we have to pay. Not to mention the egregious behavior of an oaf who declares himself exempt from paying his fair share of taxes, while the less fortunate have to support his parasitic tendencies—also known as Welfare for the Inordinately Rich.

    The bottom line is that the Republican Party is extremely venal, duplicitous, committed to bigotry and unfairness(except for the chosen), and above all, AVARICIOUS and AMORAL.

    And these are attributes that Trump cultivates and trumpets when he utters the trite slogan “MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN”. And Pence is all too happy to be a little dog trailing behind his master, regurgitating, and repeating like a parrot, what Trump believes in.

    Reply
    1. Mama Bear October 5, 2016

      as always, Aaron, very well said.

      Reply
      1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth October 5, 2016

        Thank you.

        As an FYI, I, along with several hundred other Baha’is randomly selected from around the world, will join the mostly South American contingent of Baha’is the dedication ceremony for the last of the “Continental Temples”, taking place next week in Santiago, Chile.

        Others in planning are to built in Colombia(how appropriate given the FARC situation), in the Democratic Republic of The Congo, and in Kampuchea(Cambodia) in the near future.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shastri-purushotma/bahai-temple-of-light-ris_b_6242968.html

        Reply
        1. Mama Bear October 5, 2016

          that will be an amazing site. Be safe – come home to inspire us:)

          Reply
    2. AgLander October 5, 2016

      Heh, heh…..the bleating laments from the losing side! I love it!

      Reply
      1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

        Losing? Wow…and I thought you were only mildly delusional. Now, I realize you are catastrophically delusional.

        Reply
        1. The lucky one October 5, 2016

          No, just your garden variety dumbass.

          Reply
        2. idamag October 5, 2016

          He or she is taking a break from shoveling manure in the barnyard to shoveling manure in here.

          Reply
      2. Aaron_of_Portsmouth October 5, 2016

        Oh, there you are. Decided to come up for some air from your dank bunker? I hope your are well. Losing side? Wake up. Agatha, and smell the toe jam between Trump’s toes.

        Speaking of toe jam, do you pick your feet in Poughkeepsie?

        Reply
        1. AgLander October 5, 2016

          You’d make a great Kaine stand-in at a debate…….no substance, just ad hominem one liners!

          Reply
          1. I Am Helpy October 5, 2016

            What an odd thing for YOU, of all goddam people, to accuse someone else of.

            Reply
      3. I Am Helpy October 5, 2016

        Weird how you didn’t show up after Trump got his ass so thoroughly kicked in the first debate.

        Reply
    3. PatrickHenry October 6, 2016

      You mean the parrot Kaine, just rattling off practiced sound-bites & annoying interruptions? He looked like such an A-hole, LMAO.

      Reply
  14. Wrily October 5, 2016

    Thank you Kaine for calling out Pence on his lies. Pence deserved to be interrupted every time he was telling a lie and I applaud you for that.

    If Obama had used the pulpit, all through his term, to push back against Republican lies perhaps some of the congressional obstructionism could have been overcome.

    Reply
    1. Eleanore Whitaker October 5, 2016

      It wouldn’t have been overcome. I’ll tell you why. Ohio’s Voinovich (R-OH) recently admitted that as soon as the 2008 election was over, McConnell and several others in the Republican Party, made the rest of the party promise to refuse to pass any reforms or legislations this president wanted.

      That is tantamount to sedition.

      Reply
      1. Wrily October 5, 2016

        We will never know what could have been.

        Reply
        1. latebloomingrandma October 5, 2016

          Most likely the country would be in much better shape. And these stupid Republicans could have taken credit for much of it.

          Reply
      2. idamag October 5, 2016

        Yes, he did and yes it is.

        Reply
  15. 1Zoe55 October 5, 2016

    Good for Tim Kaine with his interruptions, because that is using a tactic out of these nutcases’ own playbook. Ever hear these pompous asses (both men and women) who talk over you and keep repeating the same lie over and over. There’s no debating them, so you need to stand your ground. Tear off those American flag lapel pins and rip those bibles out of their hands, because these right wing evangelicals are neither patriots nor Christians. Pence is disgusting, dangerous, and even worse than Trump.

    Reply
    1. Concerned Citizen October 5, 2016

      AND YOU’RE A CRAZY ASS LUNATIC LIBERAL WHO IS ADORING TO THE CLINTON MAFIA AND ALL THERE CRIME. YOU TOO ARE A CRIMINAL. BIRDS OF FEATHER YOU NASTY UGLY BITCH
      ]

      Reply
      1. jmprint October 5, 2016

        What an A$$ you are. Get back in that basket of deplorables, your mama is looking for you.

        Reply
        1. Carole Moore October 5, 2016

          He doesn’t have a momma, remember??

          Reply
      2. Paul Bass October 5, 2016

        Says the RWNJ with only a 1/4 upvote rating.

        And shouting to boot, as if that will impress ANY NM reader. Go back to Fox, where someone MIGHT believe you…

        Reply
      3. Sand_Cat October 5, 2016

        Idiot.

        Reply
  16. Bob Eddy October 5, 2016

    Win, lose or draw, Pence lost me when he absolutely couldn’t say he could separate his odious religious beliefs from his governmental duties. Instead he doubled down on religion as he has done in the past.

    Reply
    1. idamag October 5, 2016

      Yet, he picked up his bed and followed, not Christ, but a man who doesn’t resemble a Christian (as per the Bible) in any way.

      Reply
  17. FT66 October 5, 2016

    The meaning of having debates is to discuss facts and truth only. Showing up as a grown up person in order to lie is totally insane. Debating in style is by the way and not a major factor to declare a person a winner. Whats wrong with us people these days?

    Reply
  18. Jinmichigan October 5, 2016

    Pence is a Christian first according to him. Except for last night.

    Reply
    1. Oddworld October 5, 2016

      Not true! Pence is precisely the type of Christian many of us have come to expect in this country.

      Reply
      1. Sand_Cat October 5, 2016

        Would “Jesus” recognize the “type of Christian many of us have come to expect in this country”?
        I suspect they’d cheerfully crucify or lynch him before he had time.

        Reply
        1. Oddworld October 5, 2016

          No, no way….I may be wrong about what I’m about to say, I have no evidence to support my claim but I believe American Christianity may be entirely unique compared to the rest of the world. I don’t mean that as a positive critique. I’m in total agreement with you, I often wonder what they would say and do if Christ were to confront them on their misguided notions.

          Reply
          1. idamag October 6, 2016

            I picture Christ coming to them and, if they recognize him at all, saying, “You cannot love me and your ideology so you must choose.” I picture them choosing their ideology.

            Reply
          2. Oddworld October 6, 2016

            I see it the same way. We all see it everyday. If they are unwilling to find the love and fellowship in Christ’s teachings than they’re obviously not listening. They are free to be bigoted all they want regardless of whether I agree or not. My problem with them is that they act on those feelings by trying to oppress the lives of others by creating laws to do so.

            Reply
          3. Sand_Cat October 7, 2016

            The only question is how violent they would be, not if.

            Reply
          4. Oddworld October 7, 2016

            You said it yourself….crucify or lynch him. On the other hand, if Christ were to appear his love may be so overwhelming that their entire thought process may change. No one can really say for sure but I find it to be a profoundly interesting topic.

            Reply
    2. Beethoven October 5, 2016

      Pence claims to be a Christian, and I’m willing to bet that he also claims to believe in the Ten Commandments. Yet he has shown by his actions that he places no value on the Ten Commandments. One of those commandments says “You shall not commit adultery.” I’m not accusing Pence himself of violating that commandment, but he is supporting, and urging all Americans to support, a man who has admitted to committing adultery many times, and has even bragged about it. But the worst thing Pence has done is to violate the commandment that says “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” When he blatantly lies about the Clinton Foundation in an effort to damage it and Hillary Clinton, on national TV, even though there is plenty of evidence that his statements are totally false, he is showing himself to be about as un-Christian as one can be. And he hasn’t done it just last night, he has done it many times.

      Reply
      1. idamag October 5, 2016

        Yes.

        Reply
      2. latebloomingrandma October 5, 2016

        It doesn’t matter to evangelicals. He’s pro-life and that’s all that matters.

        Reply
        1. Sand_Cat October 5, 2016

          I never understood how pro-war, racist, homophobic, and stingy Republicans who show obvious pleasure in making the lives of the poor more difficult, prefer to let poor children starve and under- or mis-educate them, favor pollution for profit, and a host of other vigorously anti-life policies and actions qualify as being “pro-life.”

          Reply
          1. idamag October 6, 2016

            Add their disregard as to them getting adequate healthcare.

            Reply
          2. Sand_Cat October 7, 2016

            One more among many I probably missed. Thanks.

            Reply
      3. AgLander October 5, 2016

        Please stop quoting from religious references to suit your purpose. You have already clearly exposed yourself in past comments as an anti religion bigot so stop being such a manipulative hypocrite!

        Reply
        1. Sand_Cat October 5, 2016

          You’re a multi-bigot, so you might want to lay off your accusations against anyone else.

          Are you trying to say you’re religious? If so, you just confirmed everything Beethoven said, and much, much more. You’re not only a bigot, you’re also a hypocrite.

          Reply
          1. Beethoven October 6, 2016

            Thanks. I was going to reply to AgLander, but your reply did the job quite well.

            Reply
          2. Sand_Cat October 7, 2016

            My pleasure.

            Reply
        2. Beethoven October 6, 2016

          On second thought, I will add more to what Sand_Cat said. If expecting people who claim to be “Christians” to actually follow the teachings of Jesus and obey the commandments set out in the Bible makes me an anti-religion bigot, then I’m willing to accept the title.

          Reply
          1. AgLander October 6, 2016

            No you ARE anti-religion, which is your right, but you continue to reference it when it suits your purpose in attacking and mocking those who do have a religious base…..
            Here’s proof…….
            “I expect my family to have my funeral at the funeral home chapel. But, unlike most funerals held there, my wish is that mo preachers are asked to speak, only my good friends, and that no overtly religious music be performed.”
            Recognize that quote? You should because it is from YOU!

            Reply
  19. ivory69690@yahoo.com October 5, 2016

    Various news outlets and fact-checking websites have explained, more than once, why this assertion is malicious and wrong. By now Pence must know that and yet he insistently slandered the foundation, its staff, its donors, and its beneficiaries/// but the DONNY DUMP foundation has facts that he paid a DA or what ever her spot is $25,000 and he did use the foundation money to buy a pic of a 6 ft =foot POS of the DUMPSRER himself these are FACTS and he should be going on trial for giving the DA $25,000 and with foundation money . my thinking the 10 cent on the dollar he might give to the needed id bet he would try to claim that on and save it for later from the money he dosent pay on taxes

    Reply
  20. ivory69690@yahoo.com October 5, 2016

    one can bet that all DONNY DUMPS kids are on the payroll of his B-S foundation and id bet making 6 figures checks

    Reply
    1. dbtheonly October 5, 2016

      6 figures?

      Hardly. 8 or 9 figures depending on how Dad is doing at fundraising.

      Reply
      1. ivory69690@yahoo.com October 5, 2016

        e it might be more of a percentage after DADDY DUMPSTER has his of it put aside to buy pics POS 6 FT. TALL and paying off DA to not take him to court from other people he screwed out of their money

        Reply
  21. ivory69690@yahoo.com October 5, 2016

    so thy say DENCE was the winner WHY ? because he was a calm cool lier ? and didn’t interrupted as much

    Reply
  22. AgLander October 5, 2016

    The aggressive and gruff behavior towards, and treatment of the female moderator by Kaine, could best be described as sexist…..he treated her like an angry male office bully who looks upon women as his inferior. Contrast that to Pence who was very respectful and polite towards her. Just another example of the Democrats talking a good game about their treatment of women but you don’t see it in practice. (Bill Clinton didn’t see anything wrong with it, however!)

    Reply
    1. easthills October 5, 2016

      You weren’t watching the same debate I was. Pence droned on and on in order to waste time so he didn’t get tougher questions. Kaine was trying to make him admit to the truth.

      Reply
    2. I Am Helpy October 5, 2016

      Weird, because of course that is 100% the opposite of reality. In fact, Pence repeatedly interrupted the moderator and Kaine did not. It’s also weird that you’re charging other people with being sexist, given that you are terrified of women and support an openly misogynistic candidate.

      Reply
      1. AgLander October 5, 2016

        How was work today? Lots of shopping carts to move back inside and put in line for customer use?

        Reply
        1. I Am Helpy October 5, 2016

          OK sorry you think that insulting people somehow changes the fact you were wrong. Normal people don’t think like that.

          I also don’t understand why you – an unemployable high-school dropout – feel like you are in a position to mock people with low-paying jobs.

          Reply
          1. idamag October 6, 2016

            That scratch a$$ is not normal.

            Reply
    3. Independent1 October 6, 2016

      Are you ever going to make a post THAT’S NOT a fabrication of reality?? Or a flatout lie???

      Reply
  23. stcroixcarp October 5, 2016

    I am thankful that we will not be subjected to any more VP debates. This one was awful!

    Reply
    1. AgLander October 5, 2016

      It was most revealing……of the horrible debate skills and terrible temperament of Timothy Kaine.

      Reply
      1. Sand_Cat October 5, 2016

        Your every post is far more revealing of your dishonesty, ignorance, and malice.

        Reply
        1. AgLander October 5, 2016

          Testy much?

          Reply
          1. Carole Moore October 6, 2016

            That all ya’ got??? yawnnnnnn

            Reply
          2. Sand_Cat October 7, 2016

            Dishonest and stupid much, idiot?

            Reply
      2. Thoughtopsy October 5, 2016

        I actually loved the point Kaine made that forcing your religion on everyone else in the case of abortion is morally wrong, and asking the question why Pence support the Government taking the right for a woman to choose for herself away from her.

        Pence had no answer, other than to tell fluffy stories about how important “life” is. It was flat out embarrassing.

        Reply
  24. idamag October 5, 2016

    Pence is a so-called Christian. Lying and hate is their forte. Trump is who they are. Kaine should not have spoken when it wasn’t his turn.

    Reply
  25. notafoxfan October 5, 2016

    i watched a bit and then changed to a cable re run channel! pence and kaine are not running for the office of president,but rather acting as a spokesperson for their running mate..pence(from what clips I saw on later commentary)is better at telling “smoothe” lies and coverups than is mr trump, who hollers and blurts things out..he was also a captain of the debate tem when he was a “youngster”..mr kaine is sincere and honest,has the truth of previous statements by pence and trump behind him,but his debating skills are not as “honed” as mr prence..in truth, vp debates are not as important nor impressive as the ones involving the two running for president,and unless there were some “zingers” that are kept for historical archives,some vp debates from earlier years have been better…

    Reply
  26. PatrickHenry October 5, 2016

    LMAO, Conason is clearly showing his desperate attempt to put a good spin on Kaine’s terrible performance. All he did was reinforce the common belief that Hillary & Kaine use the same tactics of deception to keep attention away from their many failures, polices, lies & scandals. This came through to MILLIONS more than ever with the annoying butting in by Kaine. He did Trump & Pence a Yuge favor by his obvious manner. Most viewers know that Pence was the far better choice & shows us how good Trump’s instincts are in choosing the Best. Even Chris Matthews agreed with this!

    Reply
    1. jmprint October 5, 2016

      Like, Manafort, Bannon, Jones and Stones, yeah right!

      Reply
    2. midway54 October 5, 2016

      Yes. I am sure that in your next beer fest hour in a second rate bar with fellow dupes and stooges all will join in laughter which of course will delight the plutocrats.

      Reply
    3. AgLander October 5, 2016

      Conason is an interesting study……his original surname was changed from “Cohen” to Conason. Why, we don’t know. But what we do know is that Conason was named after his paternal grandfather, Joe Cohen, who was an organizer and writer for the American Anarchist Movement back in the 1920’s and 1930’s………it appears the fruit didn’t fall far from the tree!

      Reply
      1. Jack Hughes October 5, 2016

        That’s bound to a subject of endless fascination for your comrades at Stormfront and Breitbart.

        Reply
        1. idamag October 6, 2016

          I thought he was one of those who had a form fitting pointy head hood.

          Reply
    4. I Am Helpy October 5, 2016

      Fascinating, I guess we have no choice but to elect the thin-skinned racist conman now that you’ve made up whatever that drivel was.

      Reply
    5. Independent1 October 6, 2016

      Say, it doesn’t bother you at all that Trump just committed his 4th or 5th electoral felony which could land him in jail for years?? Trump illegally used monies from what was supposed to be a charitable foundation to fund the beginnings of his presidential campaign.

      Donny Dump will never see the White House even if he wins – except maybe on TV in a cell with bars on it.

      Reply
  27. GayEGO October 5, 2016

    Although Tim Kaine interrupted MIke Pence too much, he spoke the truth about the nasty things that Trump said because I heard Trump say them. Mike Pence denied Trump saying those things which we knew Pence was lying. Mike Pence had six opportunities to support Trump and did not. Mike Pence signed an anti-LGBT discrimination bill as governor of Indiana, later changing it when he found out many businesses would boycott Indiana, causing Indiana to lose a lot of money. Tim Kaine keeps church and state separate, but Mike Pence is unable to as he has been brainwashed by his religion.

    Reply
    1. idamag October 6, 2016

      And it seems that the only thing that religion is concerned with is the area between the belt and the thighs. All other listed sins are okay.

      Reply
    2. Independent1 October 6, 2016

      And the state Pence governs, Indiana, is the 2015 3rd most miserable state to live in with the 3rd worst quality of life; according to the Gallup and 24/7 Wall Street survey groups.

      Reply
  28. Bud Friend October 5, 2016

    One of the best statements by Kaine when he said, “There is a difference between a dictator and a leader.” Referring, of course, to Putin.

    Reply
  29. AgLander October 5, 2016

    Timmy Kaine came out slinging one liner insults and trying to turn a debate into the Jerry Springer show. He was so out of control I would not have been surprised if the curtains parted and he called out Hillary dressed in bondage wear and swinging a whip at Pence. The Clinton team is trying to steer their campaign right into the ditch……anything to keep the discussion from turning to Hillary and her blank slate of achievements and truckloads of scandals. Pence was masterful in blocking Kaine’s attempts at lowering the level of discourse and gave Kaine a full 90 minute #ss whipping!

    Reply
    1. I Am Helpy October 5, 2016

      OK thanks for sharing the Stormfront view of things. It’s always useful to know how idiots distort things in what passes for their minds.

      Reply
    2. Thoughtopsy October 5, 2016

      Reince? Is that you?
      I note the RNC posted an article declaring Pence the winner using almost exactly those terms and argument…. an hour before the Debate started.
      http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/10/05/rnc-blog-declares-mike-pence-winner-before-debate-tapper-sot.cnn

      Nice attempt at diversion. However even you can’t avoid looking stupid when your VP Candidate sits on national television and says he and his running mate “never said” things that they very obviously said… on television… on twitter…. in interviews.

      I realise that this may not matter to Trump’s base, as they seem steeped in the idea that facts don’t matter and a continual stream of lies, hate tweets and racism is acceptable in their Presidential candidate.

      However:
      It turns off Independent voters when he blatantly lies to the American public to their face.
      It turns off independent voters when he continually refuses to support, explain or even acknowledge the horrific and stupid things said by Trump.

      I’m sure you don’t notice.
      But others do.

      I’m curious how you would describe Pence lying about what he actually, provably said in the debate…. got an answer for why that is ok with you?

      Reply
      1. Meg October 13, 2016

        You must be for Hillary. You have a lot of nerve calling someone a liar when she is the biggest liar in all of the US.

        Reply
    3. Independent1 October 5, 2016

      From Newsmax:

      ‘That Mexican Thing’ retort goes viral on social media

      Mike Pence’s off-the-cuff comment about “that Mexican thing” during Tuesday’s vice-presidential debate has become a social-media sensation with the farcical phrase going viral only minutes after it was uttered.

      The Indiana governor’s resonating crack is reminiscent of the uproar surrounding Mitt Romney, who during his 2012 debate with President Barack Obama remarked he had “binders full of women” in line for jobs.

      The phrase was triggered after Pence’s Democratic opponent Tim Kaine stated: “When Donald Trump says women should be punished, that Mexicans are rapists and criminals, or John McCain’s not a hero, he is showing you who he is.”

      “Senator, you’ve whipped out that Mexican thing again,” Pence shot back, referring to Trump’s campaign rhetoric about punishing women who have abortions and building a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border to keep out illegal immigrants.

      Within minutes, social media exploded to comment on the phrase, which even got it’s own Twitter hashtag, #ThatMexicanThing, and website, ThatMexicanThing.com.

      Much of it was from the Latino community who saw it as a rallying cry to defeat the Republican ticket in the general election next month.

      http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/pence-debate-retort-viral/2016/10/05/id/751856/?ns_mail_uid=95743144&ns_mail_job=1690917_10052016&s=al&dkt_nbr=oj1sb6ho

      Reply
    4. Independent1 October 5, 2016

      Only a turd like you would make the idiot comment: Pence was masterful in blocking Kaine’s attempts at lowering the level of discourse and gave Kaine a full 90 minute #ss whipping!

      Knowing full well that Pence was spewing more than five lies a minute!!! Which is the only way right-wingers can win anything LIE AND CHEAT, LIE AND CHEAT, LIE AND CHEAT ON AND ON AND ON AND ON!!!

      Reply
      1. AgLander October 6, 2016

        Testy much?

        Reply
    5. Independent1 October 5, 2016

      And another one from Newsmax – Trump used money illegally from his foundation to actually launch his presidential campaign:

      Report: Trump Used Foundation Money to Launch Presidential Campaign

      http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/trump-foundation-money-political/2016/10/04/id/751598/#ixzz4MGxxLCLI

      Reply
      1. idamag October 6, 2016

        Trump is who ag lander (AKA scratch a and spit) is.

        Reply
  30. Jack Hughes October 5, 2016

    It’s just so gosh darned impolite to interrupt a liar that’s shamelessly twisting facts and re-writing history.

    Have some pity on Pence — it’s tough to defend the indefensible.

    Reply
  31. Jon October 5, 2016

    The debate could not be judged by the rules that apply to scholastic debate. With Pence shamelessly lying, Kaine attempted to stop the lying before Pence completed his string of lies by interrupting him. While interrupting is impolite, allowing an unprincipled liar to continue without demanding the truth is irresponsible. Pence’s inability to tell the truth put Kaine in a difficult situation. Be polite or stop the lies.

    Reply
    1. Wrily October 6, 2016

      Kaine chose correctly.

      Reply
    2. useyourindoorvoice October 6, 2016

      I agree completely, that is how we got to this point.. The media just letting Trump from the start to lie for untold hours without any accountability. But to say well he didn’t rant and flail his arms like Trump so he won. Shame on Mathews “bigly” to completely ignore all the lies, not to even mention right afterwards. Not even he won on demeanor but lost on content and lies. If the media, Mathews included had been doing their job, Tim Kaine wouldn’t have had to do it for them.

      Reply
      1. Jon October 6, 2016

        I agree. I was livid listening to Chris Matthews saying that a man who lied for the better part of 90 minutes was the winner. A CNN focus group declared Kaine the winner. While who won or lost matters little, if at all, in the grand scheme of things, I hate to see anyone heaping praise on a person’s ability to lie without ranting and flailing around for 90 minutes.

        Reply
  32. Ed Pilwallis October 5, 2016

    Somebody tell Chris Mathews that real voters judge debates on the veracity of the responses of the debaters, not on the false perception of the so called professional reporters like him. Mathews has lost all credibility and should only be watched with great discretion. Pence has officially joined the Lyin’ Trump F Troop.

    Reply
    1. Wrily October 6, 2016

      Time for Matthews to move to Faux News.

      Reply
    2. itsfun October 6, 2016

      I have to wonder if Mathews gets a tingling feeling down his leg for Hillary as he does for Obama.

      Reply
    3. useyourindoorvoice October 6, 2016

      I have almost quit watching Mathews, his credibility was lost a long time ago. And of all things to judge Kaine on, his interruptions. It is a Mathews trademark, he is ridiculously rude when it comes to that. I had no idea he was simply a complete anti war Dove. You would think it was the 70’s and was still a peace sign. He is nuts on any war and slams Clinton every time he can over any perception of it. He is as insane on her over that as Trump.

      Reply
      1. idamag October 6, 2016

        I will say that Kaine had a great message and botched it by interrupting.

        Reply
  33. Moderate Black Woman October 6, 2016

    Agree with all who value honesty over style. Shame on the journalists who rail against Hillary Clinton for email discrepancies, but are poised to anoint Pence as a 2020 contender for the Presidency. I don’t know if its just the old “double standard” or an abandonment of journalistic integrity in favor of entertainment. Either way, it doesn’t bode well for our democracy.

    Reply
    1. idamag October 6, 2016

      We lost journalistic integrity when the White House caused Mary Wood and Dan Rather to lose their jobs over a well researched piece of journalism.

      Reply
  34. useyourindoorvoice October 6, 2016

    And the next really sad thing. If Trump manages to not do a complete retake of the first debate they will say he won and praise him for being on his meds. All he has to do is not snort, tweet or pull faces. He will be praised for days for it.

    Reply

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