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Friday, October 28, 2016

Even as most Republicans have gotten in line with efforts to remove the Confederate flag, neoconservative honcho Bill Kristol of The Weekly Standard is making a stand of his own — to defend the threatened honor of the old Confederates.

Kristol posted Tuesday on Twitter:

Um, yes. So what’s the problem here?

Kristol further described the wide-scale attack on Confederate heritage as “our own mini-French Revolution, expunging history in a frenzy of self-righteousness.” Also in one of his follow-up tweets, Kristol made an accusation that liberals would go after Abraham Lincoln next.

Quite the contrary. Lincoln’s Second Inaugural address would be an ideal curriculum entry for any left-leaning educator. In a relatively short oration, Lincoln discussed the fact that the Civil War had been caused by the South’s insatiable need for the expansion of slavery — and he declared the war itself to be a terrible divine judgment on the entire nation, both North and South, for the historical offenses of that institution.

Lincoln even described how despite initial expectations — including his own at one point — that the war would be over quickly, it had to continue until slavery was defeated and some notion of social justice — and retribution, too — had been achieved:

Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said “the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.”

Photo: Bill Kristol speaking at CPAC FL in Orlando, Florida, Sept. 23, 2011. (Gage Skidmore via Flickr)

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  • Independent1

    What in the world were the old Confederates supposed to be respected for??? Enslaving people because they were too cheap and lazy to work for themselves; or to pay an honest wage to people to work for them??

    What has the south ever done to be respected for?? Fostering organizations like the KKK?? Murdering countless numbers of blacks?? What???

    Come on southern lovers?? Let’s hear it!! What is it that gives Bill Kristol the right to believe southerners should get some kind of respect for refusing to give up slavery???

    • Siegfried Heydrich

      They made just killer mint juleps . . .

      • Scott Lanway

        Yeah, the slave sweat was a perfect complement to the whiskey.

        • whodatbob

          Stupid remark!

          • oldtack

            Not a stupid remark – a true statement for that Slave owner wasn’t about to exert himself and mix his own julep. After all – what were those bought individuals for except to serve the owner?

    • itsfun

      The Constitution gives him that right. Thousands of young men died on battlefields in that war. All of these men were fighting for what they believed was an honorable cause. Whether we agree with their cause is not the question. The south has had thousands of citizens killed in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, etc. for the United States. Should we disrespect them for that and only honor dead veterans from the north?

      • i2grok

        But the members of the services that gave their lives were citizens of The United States of America, not the CSA. And no one is disrespecting them, save people like you who attach their memory to a nation (the CSA) that declared war on the USA, and violated the Constitution that so many give only lip service to ( as you just did.)

      • Independent1

        The Constitution may give him the right to say and think what he wants, but it does not give him the right to have ever expected that anyone outside of vile, bigoted South lovers would have respected the Confederacy. The hate for the Confederacy goes FAR BEYOND LIBERALS!! It’s virtually the entire world outside the sphere of hateful, bigoted South lovers!!!

      • Independent1

        And I’m not the only one calling The South Vile.

        See this from the Washington Post (some excerpts):

        Taking down the Confederate flag musn’t obscure the South’s vile history

        In the worst possible way — responding to an unspeakable act of racist barbarism — we have stumbled into one of our all-too-rare “Reconsider the Confederacy” weeks. This year’s week looks as though it will lead to the relegation of the Confederate battle flag to museums and history’s dung heap, where it belongs.

        But once the flag is taken down, it will still be easy to avert our eyes, and moral sensibilities, from the grotesque reality that was the antebellum South and the Confederacy’s fight to preserve it. Fortunately, in just the past year, groundbreaking books on American slavery have been published, one of which — “The Half Has Never Been Told,” by Cornell University history professor Edward Baptist — documents in painful detail how slavery worked.In the worst possible way — responding to an unspeakable act of racist barbarism — we have stumbled into one of our all-too-rare “Reconsider the Confederacy” weeks. This year’s week looks as though it will lead to the relegation of the Confederate battle flag to museums and history’s dung heap, where it belongs.

        For more go here:

    • whodatbob

      The South should be respected for:
      1. Father of of Our Nation – George Washington, slave owner
      2. Author of Decoration of Independence – Thomas Jefferson, slave owner
      3.The Great Emancipator – Abe Lincoln, born and raised in Kentucky, married to the daughter of a slave owner.

      Just a start, but enough to cause the rest of us to thank the south. Time to stop fixating on problems in the south. Time to start working to resolve our local problems.

      • Independent1

        I doubt seriously that any of those men you mentioned would have joined the Confederacy – an egotistical, bigoted group of people who were willing to commit treason against America simply to perpetuate what they thought was their livelihood – keeping slaves. And or profiting from the practice of subjecting other humans to slavery.

        And this group of bigoted, egotistical hypocrites, started a war by firing on Fort Sumter even though the federal government under Lincoln had not threatened their right to own slaves. Lincoln had simply campaigned on preventing the spread of owning slaves to states that may be formed from western territories of America that had not even filed for statehood. Those 7 treasonous states started a war resulting on hundreds of thousands of Americans dying, over the fact that Lincoln had vowed to prevent the spread of the bigotry of oppressing other human beings by forcing them into slavery.

        • whodatbob

          You, Sir, posed the question, “What has the south ever done to be respected for??” I answered with the three most revered Presidents Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln all born and bred in the South.

          Washington and Jefferson both died slave owners before 1860 so it is impossible to know what either would have done at the onset of the Civil War. Lincoln actions are well documented. Lincoln followed an appropriate course of action.

          Your hypocritical, egotistical bigoted rant in paragraph 2 gives the impression you are a bigoted, low life scum bag same as those you hate so much.

          • Independent1

            Sorry, I don’t consider people living in Virginia in the late 1700s and early 1800s when Virginia was still a colony and not a state as being “from the south”. There was NO SOUTH, during that period. It really wasn’t until 30-40 years later that people started to consider themselves as being “southerners”.

            And I certainly wouldn’t put people like Washington and Jefferson in the same group with egotistical, bigots like Jefferson Davis and his lot. Sorry you’ve got come up with something a lot more in the time frame of when it was ‘The True South’ before I’ll consider anything that’s been done in the ‘South’ as being worth MY RESPECT.

            And it’s going to take an awful lot to offset the generations of KKK and other hateful bigots that have migrated FROM THE SOUTH!!!

          • whodatbob

            How convenient. Virgina, Georgia, North and South Carolin were not in the South in 1859 but relocated South in 1860.
            Virginia became a State with all 13 original States in the late 1700’s. Both Revered Presidents were wealthy, slave holding land owners. As such would probably joined the Confederacy rather than lose their wealth.

            Hateful bigoted people as you have no respect to give because you are lacking respect.

        • whodatbob

          Get your history right. How many States were part of the Confederacy? In what States did the Emancipation Deceleration not free the slaves because these states remained in the Union?

          • Independent1

            From It says it was 7 Confederate states that initially seceded. Take it up with

            The Civil War started because of uncompromising differences between the free and slave states over the power of the national government to prohibit slavery in the territories that had not yet become states. When Abraham Lincoln won election in 1860 as the first Republican president on a platform pledging to keep slavery out of the territories, seven slave states in the deep South seceded and formed a new nation, the Confederate States of America. The incoming Lincoln administration and most of the Northern people refused to recognize the legitimacy of secession. They feared that it would discredit democracy and create a fatal precedent that would eventually fragment the no-longer United States into several small, squabbling countries.


          • whodatbob

            Total of 11 States seceded from the Union, the original 7 plus 4 that did so later. You should get all the facts before causing yourself to look foolish.

        • It didn’t start out as slavery.. In the beginning there wasn’t enough whites who were willing to work the fields or do domestic duties for the elite and land owners so they heard of and went to a country that were selling slaves for the work force. The idea was to purchase these people, bring them here and let them work off their debt (of purchase, transportation and room and board) paying them enough (in the times) where they could pay their debt and once paid become freemen.. The North followed those rules, many black northerners were eventually freed from their obligation but most decided to remain as they were treated respectably while some actually saved enough to open a small business. The south also started out this way but before even one repaid the debt, the payback changed.. Giving them (say) two pennies a day for their labor but charging them three pennies a day for their room and board, essentially making it impossible to even come close to a pay back thus was the debt extended to the sons and daughters thus the assumption (and reality) of slavery.. The blacks who came here were slaves of their own country, when bought this label was to be eliminated and replaced by indengency until their debts were paid.. what spoiled the process was the landowners because even after getting these ‘slaves’ the majority of whites were still unwilling to work the fields and the answer was right in their faces.. charge these people more than we pay and they will never become freemen. From there the word ‘slave’ became associated with blacks and as the vileness escallated, so did this nation’s wrongs, just as was done toward the red man.

          • Independent1

            Thanks for the history lesson on how the south turned what was a more humane act of acquiring temporary slaves into full-fledged bigoted outright slavery. That’s what’s so damning about people of the South, over the past 150 plus years; they had let full-blown bigots led by Jefferson Davis and his crowd, turn the majority of Southerners into hateful bigots themselves; and what’s really sad, is the majority of them are actually proud of the fact that they hate and want to continue to enslave blacks. It’s absolutely disgusting!!!

            And what you’ve pointed out, may be the difference between the way slaves were being treated during the time of our founding fathers, like Washington, Jefferson and others, and when the Confederacy was created to wage a civil war – 50 or more years later.

          • Thanks Indy.. I’ve been trying to explain this for many years but the hatred has always superseded in that this is the reason they were acquired, to continue the slavery that they experienced in their own country (from warring tribes and the luck of the win). They weren’t regarded as slaves but were the booty of the conquerors in that they were forced to do the menial jobs that the warriors were above doing then I suppose the white man (of other countries) saw profit in selling these ‘captured’ ones to those who would put them to work for their profit and for the profit of the conquerors .. somewhere in the signing of these people were rules and regulations that were as honest as could be at the time but could only be followed as a trust once acquired as the deposit was no return. The black ‘slave’ never had a choice in the matter but did look forward to eventual freedom which many countries adhered to in time but some, including ours, did not AFTER a certain time. That was our sin, not theirs and that is why we still suffer from it. ALL men are created equal, a declaration in the constitution that failed almost as soon as the ink dried and continues to fail in many ways even today..

  • Steve H

    Bill knows how to blow that dog whistle better than most, but blowing it, he IS doing.

  • Darsan54

    Interesting. Republicans support those who lead a civil war against the US and its Constitution.

    • Insinnergy

      Yet the Constitution is SO important that we dare not disobey.
      So yes… they disown what they don’t like, and cherry pick things that they want from it.

      Anyone else getting Bible flashbacks?

      • i2grok

        Cherry Pick” are key words in the way (many/most?)Conservatives/Republicans/Evangelists argue. Passionately they make their arguments based on the examples that support their viewpoint while discarding data that contradicts it.

        • plc97477

          Data, otherwise known as facts.

      • Independent1

        Talking about Bible flashbacks, had you seen where the Pope is trashing one more aspect of Republican ideology?? The Pope has a real problem with Republicans loving the NRA – purveyors of GUNS; and many Republicans also then calling themselves “Christians”. The Pope’s is basically asking: How can people call themselves ‘Christians’ and at the same time promote guns that kill!!!

        Even the Pope has realized that those who think they’re a ‘Christian’, and yet support the GOP- ARE LIVING A LIE!!! No ‘True Christian’ would support or vote for the GOP!!

        See this from ChristianPost.Com:

        Francis issued his strongest condemnation of guns during his visit to the Italian city of Turin on Sunday, saying, “If you trust only men, you have lost.”

        He added: “It makes me think of people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons. That leads to a bit of distrust, doesn’t it?”

        The Bishop of Rome further condemned those who invest in the weapons industry, asserting, “duplicity is the currency of today, they say one thing and do another.”


    • Marilyn

      I agree. Ordinarily, those who lead an insurrection against the government of their own country could be considered traitors. Yet, a certain segment of our citizens want to continue to honor them. How many times have we heard/read conservative pundits criticizing Pres. Obama for not loving America and some even going so far as to say that he is trying to destroy the country. How can they criticize the Pres. for not having the appropriate love for the country and at the same time venerate a symbol of those who did try to tear the country apart?

  • bobnstuff

    When the rich 4% slave owners get the other 96% to go die for them you must have sold them a bill of goods just like the on that the republican are selling them now. I guess the south likes to lose, be lied to and be ignorant.

  • Charles Winter

    Why should there be any respect for the acts of people fighting to continue slavery? And that probably includes some of my ancestors.

  • Leftout

    I am glad Racism Ian’s shootings will now be a thing of the past. No more Confederate Flags, no more angst. Hmmm ? was Newton shootings a result of the confederacy. It seems that all shooters were mentally ip unstable but we’re not allowed to be reported to authorities due to ?.?

    • itsfun


    • Bob Eddy

      The confederate flag should be remembered for two things. It was first raised in the 1850’s in defense of slavery. It was resurected in the 1960’s in defense of segregation. Since then it has been used in support of hideously ugly hatred by hideous, ugly people.

      • Leftout

        Just pointing out that we Blame shootings on everything but the shooter! Of course slavery turned it into a brutal exploitation , by some land owners. . Different times as noted by some better historians on this site.

        • Bob Eddy

          No. We blame the shooters who take a GUN and kill people and slavery was exploitation and by neccessity , brutal, by all slave owners. Different times mean absolutely nothing. Thae fact is that much of the world had rejected slavery by that time and greed and moral bakruptcy are the only reasons to defend it. The Confederate flag was and still is a repulsive, hateful symbol that has always been used to defend indefensible positions.

          • Leftout

            Not defending slavery, but even the Jews , whiter than rice some of them, almost went back to Egypt after the exodus , after slogging through the desert with Moses, complaining there TF are we going…there is no oil out here! . They figured it was better under the Pharos then the monotonous trek. Many whites as well as blacks are still under a protective slavery imposed upon them by the congress by keeping them contained with free- bees, do you not think? A few Have initiative to make a better life, but many are content being slaves to the democrat system.

          • Bob Eddy

            Apparently the concept of slavery is lost on you. In slavery there is no choice, so, no even your absurd contention that anyone is under “protective slavery” because of “free-bees” is quite ludicrous.

          • Leftout

            Closest I ever got to the brutality of slavery is football practice in August in the south.
            Other than that I was fortunate so to find my own way through life , Un encumbered by dependence on anyone. I feel the government is heading to a way to control us essentially must be stopped. The government exists by and for the people, not the reverse ….but that s me.

  • cpbis

    I only hope that ABC network recognizes the need for them to no longer have him on their political panels.

  • Carolyn1520

    Much like the imaginary “war on Christians”, this guy is deflecting and trying to change the narrative. If he says no respect for confederates, well he’d be right, but that was never in question, with or without the flag controversy .
    The issue is simple, this flag doesn’t belong on federal or state buildings.
    Otherwise everyone who wishes to do so can still wear it or fly it on their vehicles or over their residences. There is no ban on that.
    Businesses who choose to stop selling that symbol have the right to make decisions that affect their bottom line too.

  • pmbalele

    Well, it is GOP fault to encourage such people to enter the WH wannabees. I like Don Trump. At least he he presentable and better looking than all GOP line-up. With the exception of Bush III the other GOP candidates are so ugly- the world will laugh at us if elected. But GOPers hate Bush III because he married to a Mexican. Just think of making Chris as president. The guy will not fit in French cars if ever visits France. Dr. Carson, like John McCain, does not brush his teeth-that is why he lisps his words. Jindal is smart but ugly. Randy is a good guy but too short; Santorum wants to be an American little pope. We don’t want another pope in this country. Walker will embarrass the country -the guy dropped out school. He will not be allowed to eat in England universities mess. Rubio is Mexican. Repubs do not like racial minorities. Ted Cruz is Cuban born-he will face back-lash from Allen Keyes and Allen West. These hate foreigners. Sarah Palin is violent-recently her family was thrown-out a tavern for causing brawl. So we ran out of piggies. We may settle with Hillary and Biden as the only candidates.

    • dpaano

      Trump is “better looking,” seriously??? He’s so ugly, he would scare the heck out of my dog!

  • oldtack

    I am a genealogist and in my research I have found many ancestors that were Confederates. My Great grandfather was in the 10th Alabama and was severely wounded in the Battle of Fraysers Farm near Richmond in the Seven Days Campaign in June 1862. He fought and almost died for the Confederacy and while I admire his youthful exuberance and “Patriotism” I think he was an impressionable fool. He was not a land owner, he was not a “sharecropper” he and his entire family were listed as “day laborers” beyond dirt poor living on the edge of existence. The only difference between them and the slaves was that they were allowed to leave the Plantation at the end of the day In a wat, the Slaves had it better. They had shelter and food whereas this was not always the case with day laborers.

    . Contrary to popular mythology, the Plantation owners and other wealthy leaders did not take up arms to fight for the Beloved South. They paid the poor sharecroppers and day laborers to go in their stead The blood shed in this cause was the blood of the Poor laborers with a scant amount of that blood coming from the elite.
    Yet it is the Elite that persists in fomenting this “War of Northern Agression” and persist in the continuance of “The great lost life of the Old south. It is this group that fans the flames and keeps a semblance of the confederate flag still flying.
    Unfortunately, it is ones like Dylan Roof that rise up to avenge a Fictional “Glorious Old South” Roof and his family will “pay” for his indiscretions but it is the it is the power brokers and convoluted Mass Media that are to blame.

    Very similar to our “wars” of today. You don’t find the elite or children of the elite in The Armed Forces of this Country. What you see is less than one percent of the youth of this Nation engage in our Global Conflicts. I work with Veteran Organization, I talk with Veterans and their Families. I have yet to encounter the Elite. Mostly I find lower middle class down to the poor, They enlist for the educational promise and the monetary reward for enlistment and possible re-enlistment.

    When will we awaken and once more say Hell no I won’t go and for the present say Hell no i will not volunteer. Let the Patriotic Elite and their Ilk fight the Wars they are so eager to foment.

    • ps0rjl

      I couldn’t agree more with you. William Kristol never saw a war he not like. He just has never thought he or his should join the fight. During the Civil War in the North, you could buy your way out for $600 or by getting someone to take your place. During Vietnam, if your parents had the money to keep you in school or had some influence in the community, you were virtually assured you would not have to go. Except for WWII, all the wars fought by this country were a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight.

  • Mike Loghides

    Comparing what is happening in “Dixie” to the French Revolution is so insulting as to disqualify Mr. Crystol from ever discussing international affairs. The active efforts to portray the Confederacy for what it really was is not “our own mini-French Revolution, expunging history in a frenzy of self-righteousness.” The French Revolution, Mr. Crystol, gave us a document entitled “The Rights of Man and the Citizen.” There was no discussion of groups of humans “belonging” to others, or being sold, bartered or traded. You can not compare the Confederacy with the French Revolution-not if you want to be taken seriously. The man is a pompous fool who should be driven off of television.

    • tomtype

      In fact, part of the rights of man were the elimination of slavery in France and French colonies.
      The Confedercy was hardly a “mini French Revolution.” The union and the new US government were more like the real revolution. During the war, they introduced the land grant colleges, they began construction of the trans continental reailroad, whole industries were created or were brought quickly into maturity, And it changed the way we speak of our nation. Before the civil war the usual usage was The United States are, after the civil war, the common usage was The United States is….

  • Brian Loudermilch

    Memo to Little Billy Kristol: Please look up the words “Treason” and “Sedition” in the dictionary before the next batch of worthless bullshit starts flowing out of your mouth.

  • Julieann Wozniak

    Traitors and white supremacists are undeserving of my respect. Those guys lost the war, thank God. Deal with it!

  • the kick is good

    Doughface Kristol loves the slavers.

  • Bob Eddy

    Hmmmm,another success for the left! I have absolutely no respect for anyone who fought against this country in defense of slavery. Recognize them? Acknowledge them? Yes. As traitors to this nation as traitors to humanity and decency.

  • I don’t know what the hell this wing nut is saying.. “The Left’ Wants To Expunge All Respect For Confederates!”.. It’s not the ‘left’ wing (of which he and his ilk despise) it’s the whole damn nation!.. This meat sack can’t do anything without blaming liberals. Anyone with an ounce of morals and logic are the one’s trying to stop the southern idiots to quit thinking they’re a separate nation. They lost, it’s time to lower their flag and raise old glory.

  • FT66

    Since when this man Bill Kristol ever said anything and happened to turn out to be right?
    1. He was wrong in Iraq war
    2. He was wrong on saying Sarah Palin is the right person to picked as VP
    3. He is even quite wrong now on this issue of confederates

    • oldtack

      William Kristol ia a spawn of a wealthy Jewish Ultraconservative Protagonist from New York City. He was indoctrinated in this neocon BS from birth. He parrots his Family’s warped philosophies.

      In our paranoia in this Country we get very concerned when we find we have two Muslim Congressmen while in the same instance we tend to ignore the influx and power of the Jews. Check the rolls of how many Jews fill the halls of Congress and the Supreme Court. Check how much power the Jewish Anti defamation League exerts on our Congressmen. Check to see where Benjamin Netanahu resided in his youth – where he graduated from High School, where he attended a University. It was a city in Pennsylvania for basic education and Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) for Higher Education. And he is a JEW from Israel??

      I am not anti Semetic nor am I any type of avowed racist. I believe in exposure and letting the public make up their own minds. For the record – I have both Jewish and Islamic friends and I consider them good people. But I have absolutely no tolerance for the radicals of either group nor any other radical factions that threaten this Country and deliberately defame the stars and stripes that I served under in my Military Service.

      Maybe Kristol actually believes that old story “THE JEWS ARE GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE”

  • smilee

    This does nothing to disrespect those soliders who actually fought for the confederacy, but only says that ther political beliefs are no longer aceptable and most are now against that. The confereate political agenda was opposed to the United States and they failed to destroy the union and the the union must come first in all things. History yes but not relive it.

  • Robert Cruder

    A fight may be honorable. A loss may be honorable. Accepting the loss and moving on may be honorable.

    Denying that the surrender was signed or that the war did not end is merely childish.

    That applies to some Southerners and to all neo-Nazis. Neither the left, the middle or most conservatives EVER had respect for that extreme.

    It applies to virtually all Republican office-holders and candidates in discussion of not one but two Presidential elections, dozens of court cases and over 50 bills in the House.

    Most importantly, it applies to the Republican base.

    Bill Kristol, like Fox news, makes a living by telling them that they WON the war but were cheated by a cabal of lying historians. His great talent is maintaining that pompous demeanor without snickering.

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    Nothing more pathetic than a man who can’t admit when he is wrong. The Confederacy was intended to promote secession of states who intended to continue the practice of slavery so they could have FREE labor. That IS what slavery is ALL about.

    Fast forward to CONservatism…slash and burn, cut, cut, cut…and then flush federal tax dollars to their states while ours live with dangerous roads, bridges and tunnels, no advancements in transit and threats of Big Oil pipelines running through our backyards…all while we PAY for their pollution, their oil spills and their prison, military and gun running industries with OUR tax dollars.

    Still think there is NO CONfederacy?

  • LCR78

    There is no doubt that the soldiers of the Confederacy were brave. That doesn’t mean they weren’t fighting for an immoral and unjust way of life. No one should honor a way of life or social system built on the enslavement of another human being. Why can’t Kristol and others understand that simple truth?

  • dpaano

    Who listens to Kristol anyway?