I actually wrote a long reply…but I decided to truncate it greatly. I went to land grant…it was what I could afford. I received maybe $3K in total from my parents. I had several scholarships. I had a work study for a bit…until I figured I could make a lot more mowing grass for little old ladies. I wore out several lawn mowers. I received two BS degrees. I got out with about $2,000 in credit card debt. I guess because I went to a land grant that disqualifies me and makes me a hypocrite? That’s a bunch of bull…as that is still an option for current students now…and there are more opportunities than ever in existence. Lottery scholarships is but one example that comes to mind. The qualifications for that are pretty low…and yet people drop off all the time. If people cannot take advantage of whats there…they really don’t deserve to go on. And they certainly don’t have a right to a completely free ride…which is what the point you all are trying to make. Catering to a bunch who are losers because they are lazy, unmotivated, immature and unwilling to take their own destiny in their hands and at least try is a mistake. If you want a better educated society…then address the shortcomings in primary education…where you will have the greatest effect. I like that because we’re already paying more than most for it.

Oh for crying out loud. I am an ‘X’r.

I have a second cousin who, last year, started an engineering degree in aerospace. He is doing just fine on paying his own way. Of course, he has earned a lot of scholarship money. He worked his but off in high school, and he he works his ass off during the summer. Last year a life guard…this year…something a bit better. The bottom line is, he works his ass off…at school…and at work. Opportunities come to those who are willing to roll up their sleeves and just do something…anything!

If he can do it…anyone can.

I have a lot of personal examples I can bring up. That aside…there are so many opportunities…if you cannot make things work in todays environment…then you do not deserve that degree. Or you chose the wrong one. And that’s your fault.

Price of $70K for a degree…so what? If you are anything competent…it should not be a significant barrier. If you stick to it and actually get that degree..than the $70K should be nothing. If it is…then, again, you are choosing the wrong degree.

You’ll certainly get no disagreement from me that we should invest more in K-12 education. That said, I don’t approve of using tax funds to pay for private schools, most especially religious ones. But as for general public education, I entirely agree. I don’t think much of that is directly germane to the original topic of discussion however.

You mean like Pell Grants? The very thing this VP is trying to reduce? It’s one thing to say for us to fend for ourselves with opportunities, but it’s another to say that then agree with a person that is taking every opportunity of that away.

Education in this country is disgustingly under-regarded and under-appreciated! Teachers are underpaid and overworked with huge classrooms with a curriculum based on how to pass a test instead of what to learn. Standardized testing that proves hardly anything about a student other than how to follow instructions is NOT how you get by in life- it’s why college is a huge challenge to most of the brightest high school graduates in this day and age.

Craig your not right on about this. 80k yeah if you are a teacher perhaps in a wealthy district most don’t make that until they have taught for 15-20 years. Then they are given a 200 year salary to buy their own supplies for 30 students. Then depending on what age. If you could take two 8-12 year olds who have no respect for you and no backing from the government, and alot of times parents for 8 hours a day and add at least 10 more out of 30. Every day, then lets see you talk. Why is china, japan and the whole other world education system way better than ours. Hell why are some third worlds better than ours. Its because its taken seriously given the attention to and what money and time they do have the give it to the schools. That’s why 80% of the scientists and engineers come from other countries

Worthy? Really?

So you are an Aggie. When I taught briefly at TAMU it wasn’t uncommon to run into people who justified their status as a reflection of their own personal hard work and moral superiority. By the same token, they almost always saw the misfortune of others as a reflection of the other’s moral inferiority. It made it easy for them to argue they had no responsibility for others because it was always each individual who determined his or her own fate. The only problem is that it is a false reality. The truth is that success is determined by many factors and maybe character and hard work are the least significant of these.

Did you determine how smart you would be?

Did you determine your parents? What their social position, education, and wealth would be?
Did you control where you lived? The country you would be born in?

Did you pick your schools, your neighborhood, your teachers?

Did you pick your height, weight, physical condition, health?

Did everyone else have exactly the same advantages, opportunities and abilities you had?

Did they just chose not to be successful? Do you really think it is really just a choice and some folks opt for poverty?

Everyone pays taxes in some form or the other. (Please don’t raise that canard about only some percentage paying all taxes. The Federal Government isn’t the only government in this country and the federal income tax isn’t the only tax.) Of course, you have a right to raise the issue and you have a right to not be very smart about it. I don’t recall saying you couldn’t raise the issue, I did challenge your thinking on the issue.

Brown shirt? Do you accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being a fascist? I don’t think I will spend any time on just how ahistoric the use of that expression is in this context.

You understand, don’t you that no one has ever made the argument you are attacking. I don’t know anyone who has said advanced degrees are a right. I do know lots of people who support the position that those desirous of and capable of getting a college education ought to have the opportunity to get one.
Explain what is morally suspect about that idea. If talent can come from anywhere, then maybe anywhere ought to get a chance to go to school.

You must really hate paying taxes and driving on good roads and having fire fighters and policemen and stop signs and emergency services and clean water and clean food and (relatively) safe medical drugs, etc..

Let us talk about misleading statistics. The U.S. should spend the most on education – it is after all the richest country in the world, it has a very large population, and people involved in the system ought to earn a living wage. However, the U.S. ranks 37th in the world (tied with Estonia and Austria) for amount spend as a percentage of GDP. That ranking is well below our international academic ranking. I am amazed at the number of people who complain about the low quality of education in the country while simultaneously believing that good teachers ought to work for nothing or very little. Teachers should be dedicated to their profession and their students even if they don’t get paid enough to buy a house or have any job security. These same folks are not so conservative when thinking about how much they should get paid for whatever it is they do and none of them ever devoted a thought to being a teacher. (Couldn’t make enough money.) But, of course, unlike teachers , I am sure they do really important stuff.

I think you are jealous. For some reason and without justification, you believe others might get for free what you had to pay for.

Why don’t you do that. Sell your business and go back to school for forty years. This time stay awake in class and pay attention.

Do you always view someone telling you that you are wrong as telling you to shut up? When people tell me they disagree with me, I generally view it as an invitation to continue to speak my mind. You should try that attitude on and drop the poor, pitiful me routine. An apology of any sort was the very last thing I would have expected or care to receive.

So you have chosen to argue that the position of a few people in no particular position to affect outcomes represents the thinking of everyone who advocates higher education being available to those who want it and can do it.

This nation has a stake in the education of its youth. The question may be do you want it to be available to as many as possible regardless of their socio-economic backgrounds. The counter may be to argue it should only be available to those whose parents can afford to send them or those with some special talent which allows them to qualify for a scholarship, or those who have special friends. Maybe the question is should we continue to narrow the life opportunities for some based, on their or their parents incomes.

It makes no sense to me to underfund public schools and then complain about outcomes. It makes no sense to say well we have much better test results in Westlake than we do in Reagan and ignore the amount available to spend on one set of students and the wealth of the parents in one area as compared to the other. You can continue to pretend, if you wish, that outcomes in this society aren’t sharply influenced by money, position, color, or culture and a lot of other things the individual has no control over, but it is pretending.

We live in a very wealthy nation with a high standard of living and high cost of living. You are comparing apples and oranges when you compare our costs per pupil with the costs per pupil spent by other nations not as wealthy as us. You run into similar problems comparing small nations and small populations with larger populations and nations. Generally speaking valid statistical comparisons need to hold pretty much everything else which can effect outcomes constant while it compares two things at issue. Failure to do so means you ignore all the other factors which may affect your outcomes.

Oh, by the by, you aren’t the only person who works.