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Experts Say Stopping Michigan Recount Is A Corrupt Exercise Of Power

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Experts Say Stopping Michigan Recount Is A Corrupt Exercise Of Power

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Michigan Recount

Reprinted with permission from AlterNet. 

Michigan is the new Florida in American elections, an infamous state where Republican judges shut down a presidential recount before the votes were counted, leaving Americans with unanswered questions about Donald Trump’s closest margin of victory on election night, November 8. Thursday morning, no county election offices were continuing with the recount, even as Green presidential candidate Jill Stein’s campaign was taking its fight for the recount to Michigan’s Supreme Court.

Make no mistake, a travesty has occurred. On Wednesday in courtrooms and government boardrooms across the state, a series of legal dominos fell on Stein’s statewide presidential recount. In state legal venues, the linchpin was a three-member appeals court of Republican judges who ordered a state vote canvassing board to shut down the recount. That board then voted to reverse its earlier decision allowing the recount to start. Later Wednesday evening, a federal court judge lifted his prior restraining order preventing Michigan officials from calling off the recount. On Thursday, Michigan counties had suspended the recount. “It’s stopped,” said the receptionist answering the phone at the Wayne County Election Division in Detroit.

What follows are seven statements from election integrity activists and computer security experts who supported the recount.

1. John Bonifaz, co-founder and president, Free Speech For People: 
”It is an outrage that the voters of Michigan are being denied their right to have their votes properly counted. Because of a partisan state appeals court decision, Americans will never know the truth about what happened in this election. But the fight for our democracy must go on, now more than ever. History will record that, at this critical moment, people across the country stood up to demand that we verify the vote.”

2. Douglas W. Jones, associate professor of computer science, University of Iowa: “In a healthy democracy, elections are run with sufficient transparency that partisans of the losing candidate can convince themselves that they lost fair and square. Recounts in close elections are a necessary part of this transparency, particularly when the margin of victory is exceeded by an unusual number of ballots that were cast without reporting any vote in the election. Trump’s fight to stop the recount only serves to fuel speculation that he has something to hide.”

3. Mark Halverson, founder and former director, Citizens of Election Integrity Minnesota: “On the basis of our research into state recount laws, I take issue with the court’s assertion that no court has ever endorsed the use of a recount for purposes of determining whether or not voting machines functioned properly and counted votes accurately. For example, Tennessee recount statutes allow ‘any court, primary board, legislative body, or tribunal’ with jurisdiction over election contests to initiate a recount of ballots under circumstances including an indication of fraud, or the malfunction of a voting machine, whether the malfunction would be in a sufficient amount to alter the election outcome or for ‘any other instance’ in which such a body ‘finds that a recount is warranted.’ California and Delaware have similar provisions.”

4. Barbara Simons, board of advisers, U.S. Election Assistance Commission: The co-author of Broken Ballots: Will Your Vote Count? says, “Michigan citizens are fortunate to have a sound method for casting their votes: they mark paper ballots which are then counted by computers inside of scanning machines. However, computers can have software bugs, programming errors, or election-rigging malware. Fortunately, we can determine if there are any problems with the scanners by comparing what the paper ballots say to what the scanner thinks they say. But if we don’t look at the paper, then we can’t know if the scanners are correct. We have a choice. We can honor our democracy by routinely checking computer-declared results after every election. Or we can accept computer-declared results on faith, even though they may be wrong. Our democracy will fail if we continue to allow unreliable computers to decide our elections on our behalf.”

5. Phillip B. Stark, associate dean of mathematical and physical sciences and professor of statistics, UC Berkeley: “This decision halts the collection of priceless evidence about how well the infrastructure of our democracy works. Counting the votes accurately and checking the count carefully should not be a partisan issue. We should check election results against cast paper ballots in every election. There are more efficient ways to do that than full recounts: we need laws that require non-partisan, risk-limiting audits to catch and correct errors. But first, we need all voters to use paper ballots, and we need all jurisdictions to protect those ballots.”

6. Poorvi Vora, professor of computer science, George Washington University: “Statistician Philip Stark and computer scientist David Wagner of Berkeley have defined ‘evidence-based elections’ as those where voters and observers are provided evidence in support of the election outcome. The recount was to have provided evidence for or against a very unusual number in the Michigan election this year: 75,000 voters—a number seven times the margin in the race—voted in the election but did not vote on president. However, in the early days of the recount, there have been reports of other, more troubling facts from this election: mismatches between voter turnout and ballots, scanners jamming, insecure storage of ballot boxes. This is not the time to stop the recount. This is the time to press on with it to obtain more evidence and understand more completely the election process in Michigan.”

7. Dan Wallach, professor in Rice University’s Department of Computer Science and manager of Rice Computer Security Lab: “I’m disappointed that Michigan isn’t seeing its recount through. We have legitimate concerns about foreign nation-states trying to manipulate our elections, and Michigan offered an important opportunity to either prove or disprove these concerns. The discrepancies in Detroit (broken seals, mismatching counts) already point to flaws in Michigan’s election processes that need to be improved, and even a recount that failed to change the outcome would be able to provide a definitive count of how many Michigan votes were handled so poorly that they cannot be properly recounted.”

Recount Continues in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin

The Stein campaign also filed for recounts in Wisconsin, which started last week, and in Pennsylvania, which has gotten off to a rough start and where it has sued the state in federal court over what it says are unconstitutional obstructions to the process.

Pennsylvania’s election system allows for a state-run recount if the margin of victory is less than 0.5 percent, which is slightly below Donald Trump’s latest lead over Hillary Clinton. That has prompted the Stein campaign to try to file for citizen-initiated recounts, where any three voters from one precinct can submit notarized petitions. As of midweek, 1,300 voters filed petitions, but many jurisdictions either refused to take them or haven’t acted on them. Republicans have also filed legal challenges, tying up recounts in courts, where more often than not local judges have rejected the recount.

When the Stein campaign filed a legal petition seeking a statewide recount with 100 signatures on it, the Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court demanded that they pay $1 million to be able to move forward with their case, which prompted the Stein campaign to sue the state in federal court. The case will be heard Friday. In Wisconsin, where the recount is nearing completion, the state inexplicably more than tripled its estimated $1.1 million filing fee to $3.5 million, which Stein’s campaign paid.

But the most dubious opposition to recounting the ballots was in Michigan, where the state election department told counties they could disqualify local precincts from a recount if there is discrepancy between the number of voters in a precinct’s poll book and the number of ballots in the ballot box. That standard meant 392 of 662 precincts in heavily Democratic Detroit—or 59 percent—of the precincts were deemed ineligible for a recount.

In interviews with the Detroit Free Press, nationally known election scholars criticized that disqualifying standard. Larry Norden, Democracy Program deputy director at the Brennan Center at NYU Law School, said, “It seems like to have such a strict rule is a bad idea because it potentially incentivizes someone who doesn’t want a recount.” The Free Press added, “Norden said a rogue poll worker could simply add one name to the poll book at the end of the evening to ensure the precinct couldn’t be recounted.”

Ed Foley, an election law expert at Moritz Law School in Ohio also said Michigan’s disqualifying standard was out of step with other states. “In most states, if it’s [precinct ballot totals and poll book sign-ins] only off by one or two, it’s usually poll worker error and absent any other evidence of fraud or impropriety, they’ll treat the ballots as valid. The thinking is that those mistakes even out. Michigan is sort of out of step with that prevailing practice.”

But like Wisconsin, where state actors changed the rules in the middle of the recount process, Michigan Republicans have not stopped going after the Greens. In their GOP-controlled legislature, the House Elections Committee has passed and sent to the floor a bill retroactively requiring the Stein campaign to pay more for the recount.

Not What Democracy Looks Like

Voting in the presidential election didn’t start on November 8. It began weeks before, where civil rights attorneys in many states were in court to prevent partisan election officials, almost all Republicans, from creating barriers to the vote such as closing early voting sites in communities of color and toughening voter ID laws to get a ballot. And the presidential election didn’t end after Election Day, when states took weeks to officially certify their counts and a call came to verify the vote count in the states that purportedly elected Trump.

Americans need to know who elected Trump and why, instead of seeing a morass of vote count obstructionism that’s as alarming as the October surprise delivered by a partisan FBI, which targeted Hillary Clinton in the final weeks of the campaign. While the Clinton campaign refused to demand accountability on behalf of its voters, Stein’s campaign surprisingly took on the job. What did her 100,000-plus small donors get for their millions? They have placed new election integrity issues before the nation. They showed it is not just partisan voter suppression before and on Election Day, but a rickety ballot and vote counting machinery manned by too many officials who don’t want to account for votes, compounded by partisan courts pre-empting the vote count, that sit at the center of the electoral process. Perhaps American elections have always been this way, but many voters do not think that’s the way a democracy is supposed to function.

Steven Rosenfeld covers national political issues for AlterNet, including America’s democracy and voting rights, campaigns and elections, and many social justice issues.

IMAGE: A sign points the way to the room where Oakland County clerks count election ballots during a recount of presidential ballots in Waterford Township, Michigan, U.S., December 5, 2016. REUTERS/Rebecca Cook

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95 Comments

  1. ArmedPatriots December 9, 2016

    The ONLY travesty that happened here was allowing this joke recount to ever begin at all.
    YOUR SIDE ADMITTED THERE WAS NO CHANCE that it would overturn the RESULTS. Obama said the same damned thing.
    Therefore there was NO VALID REASON to put this ridiculous burden on a couple states.
    This was about Jillensteins ego and wanting to remain in the spotlight…making easy money from liberal retards and most likely getting a job from Hillary IF Stein COULD overturn the results.
    This was NEVER about integrity.
    IF it had been this lyingtramp would have filed early enough to count NV and NH…but she didnt
    She waited until deadlines when it was too late for Trumps side to start recounts elsewhere and she ONLY chose RED states to count.
    Jills career hopefully will grind to an embarrassing result from this charade shes played on uneducated and desperate Democrat voters.

    Reply
    1. Sand_Cat December 9, 2016

      The main “uneducated and desperate voters in this election were the Trump “base.” You sound like one of them.
      So you’re one of those obviously afraid that counting the actual ballots will show either massive voter fraud or a software problem and that your boy didn’t win after all. And your screen name says it all: not the “patriots” part, since your post is about as unpatriotic as they come. Your claim in the Michigan case of its not changing the income is dead wrong, probably a lie on your part, or from one of the professional liars on Trump’s staff, or Trump himself.
      Making sure the vote is accurate in a close election – especially one in which the “loser” won substantially more votes than the “winner” – is the bedrock of patriotism, and both your name and you post shout out that – like many Republicans, and pretty much all of the ignorant and bigoted Trump “base” – you don’t give a damn if Trump lost the election, or about the common good and the welfare of the nation: you just want your way.

      Reply
      1. Mick Grosz December 9, 2016

        People like you are nuts and poor losers, but losers none the less. If the recount had been finished you idiots would not have accepted anything less than Hillary winning. The ballots could be counted a hundred times and if Hillary still didn’t win you would still claim fraud. Jesus Christ himself could come and tell you morons that the ballots were counted correctly and the voting machines were not tampered with and were entirely legit and you still wouldn’t believe it. Liberalism is a mental disorder and you and your ilk are true liberals.

        Reply
        1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

          A nut shouldn’t refer to anyone else as a nut. You should just tend to repairing your mind rather than throwing that hefty weight of yours around by showing off a profundity of ignorance.
          Conservatism is a disease that dates back to the beginning of time and has to do with resistance to change and maintenance of the status quo. Surely you must remember the ire raised by Pharoah when Moses challenged the status quo in Egypt; or the conservative attitude Nimrod had towards Abraham; or how about the conservative response by the Pharisees, Saducees, the Roman authorities in the face of Jesus challenging the conservative order of those who resisted the change urged by Jesus.
          Learn your history, Mick, think deeply and reflect on what is a recurring trend and how the GOP is just repeating the same mistakes made by the Conservatives I’ve mentioned. Once you see the pattern, then you’ll be able to comment with intelligence.

          Reply
          1. Mick Grosz December 10, 2016

            And progressives have brought us Stalin, Mao, Chavez, Castro, Hitler and you think we are nuts.

            Reply
          2. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

            How do you define “Progressive”? Have you ever looked up the word? Let me help you:
            1)”Progressive”—a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.
            2) “Conservative”—a person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in relation to politics.

            From these definition, would you conclude that Moses and Jesus were conservative or progressive? Were any of the aforementioned Messengers of God progressive or conservative?
            Were they of the same caliber and had the same intent as Stalin? How idiotic of anyone to think that any of the Messengers from God stood for maintaining the status quo and to stand pat in the face of moral decay.

            Mick, if you want to comment intelligently, and I suggest you stop fawning over your limited and constipated concept of “liberal” and look at life from a loftier height.
            Mick, who are you? Are you progressive in thought and outlook or stubbornly insistent on standing still? This is not a trick question.

            Reply
          3. Mick Grosz December 10, 2016

            I would agree that comparing Moses and Jesus to Stalin is idiotic. You were the one doing that so I guess you would be considered an idiot.

            Progressives, i.e. liberals, praised and mourned Chavez and Castro. That should tell you all you need to know.

            Reply
          4. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

            Mick, I don’t know if you have a reading impediment, but I WAS NOT comparing Moses and Jesus to Stalin. Reread my comment w/o the urge to jump to a wildly absurd conclusion.
            When I spoke of Jesus and Moses, what was I saying to you? I used them to help show you the absurdity of comparing progressive ideas as being idiotic or as you phrase it “liberal”. When you use term “liberal” you are fixed on the political aspect of the term—in a purer and ideal manner, “progressive” transcends politics which is why I chose to use the example of Jesus and Moses who offered to the status quo of their times what was libelous and threatened the social order of the time, which “conservatives” in the ideal concept of the word sought to protect, as they also do now.

            Your gross generalization that “liberals” praised and mourned Chavez and Castro shows a child-like imagination that suggests you have the ability to be omniscient and can tell through some supernatural way that only “liberals” mourned—how do you know this? Not all “liberals” mourned as you shamelessly assert.
            Mick, do try to be more mentally alert, intelligent, and thoughtful in your responses. “Conservatism” tends to make its proponents shallow thinkers judging by the comments and responses they make.

            Reply
          5. Mick Grosz December 10, 2016

            You are obviously a liberal. Are you the one liberal that did not praise them nor mourn their demise?

            Reply
          6. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

            You’re still being child-like in your emotions, Mick. Are you an adult? Being peevish and obdurate aren’t beloved qualities of God.

            If being liberal means being thoughtful, considerate, and looking at the bigger picture, then yes I am “liberal”. God gave you a mind, Mick—use it. To waste your time and your mental potential splitting hairs on what category to pigeon-hole people is an affront to God and shoes Him that you have no concern for using the gift He gave you.

            Conservatism” is not a god, Mick—it’s an artificial convenience for governance. Politics is not an ends in itself, but a means to implement the ideal into everyday life. The betterment of humanity won’t be achieved by clinging to a prejudiced and jaundiced view of how to achieve a solution based on political ideology.

            You’ve become too materialistic and you show little in the way of spiritual attributes.

            “O Son of Being! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly, and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable, and everlasting.”

            O SON OF DUST! Verily I say unto thee: Of all men the most negligent is he that disputeth idly and seeketh to advance himself over his brother. Say, O brethren! Let deeds, not words, be your adorning.”

            (—-2 epigrams by Baha’u’llah from His “The Hidden Words”)

            http://www.bahai.org

            Reply
          7. Mick Grosz December 10, 2016

            And what, pray tell, do you base your statement of me being too materialistic. As close as I can tell you are a pseudo intellect who feels superior to others with likely no justification.

            Reply
          8. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

            Mike, youre still being too emotional and irrational.
            I base my observation on you being materialistic by the absence of any shred of spirituality in your vituperative comments. As you know there are two fundamental aspects of creation—phenomenal(i.e. material and observable outcomes in the physical realm), and the spiritual which is manifest by our behavior, our tone of voice and sentiments, and how we put spiritual virtues in action.
            Materialism envelops a wide range: Acquisition of power to influence others to one’s way of thinking; acquiring wealth to gain influence over others and to buy, buy, buy; seeking to defeat another in conversation and achieve some matter of satisfaction. These are materialist aspirations, totally apart from spiritual concerns and pursuits.
            You’ve been totally focused on promoting man-made constructs using political designations like “liberal”, “conservative”, and the like. Your focus is mainly to assert your dominance in a conversation which is a materialist perspective centered on power—not unlike what a certain individual is projecting himself as.
            What is “pseudo-intellectual” and do you imply that you are intellectual and not I? Should pseudo-intellect yield to outright bigotry, hostility, and ignorance? Educate me with an intellectual and humble response.

            Try framing your concerns outside of the constipated realm of partisanship, and strive to be more noble and lofty in your responses.

            Reply
          9. Thoughtopsy December 12, 2016

            Retard alert.

            Reply
          10. Thoughtopsy December 14, 2016

            Misdirection.
            Avoidance.
            Diversion.
            Failure to answer the points presented.

            Yep you’re a Trump voter.

            Reply
          11. charleo1 December 10, 2016

            What would Conservatives praising and mourning the ouster of Batista say about Conservatives? Their principles, and values? It’s fair question. That Conservatives deemed him [Batista} as a model of Jeffersonian Democracy worth preserving? Far better than the Communists under Castro? Who after all, laid their wholly unfair, and greedy system enforced at the point of United Fruit corporation provided gun, to waste? The truth about Batista, that he exploited his people for his own power, and the profits of his American Business benefactors. And therefor proper fodder for Capitalist propaganda to justify their own forms of greed, and worker exploitation to their clueless minions here in America?

            Reply
          12. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

            Trump and friends are currently praising PUTIN.
            Explain why your side is so clever again?

            Reply
          13. Mick Grosz December 10, 2016

            You guys just babble BS. It makes sense to work with Russia if we can. You don’t have to trust, or even like, Putin to know we have to work with Russia to defeat ISIS and hopefully make a safer world.

            Reply
          14. Thoughtopsy December 12, 2016

            Yep… gurgle gurgle… that’s all just our BS.
            Except you failed to answer my POINT.

            Trump continually praises Putin.
            Republicans are praising Putin.

            Let’s be clear…. Putin literally murders people that disagree with him. I believe the death count among Russian journalists alone is somewhere over 200. Plus political opponents killed or jailed.
            Instead of killing ISIS he’s currently bombing and strafing hospitals in Aleppo.

            They don’t praise him for helping them with anything.
            But for being a “STRONG LEADER”.
            And for being “MUCH BETTER THAN OBAMA.”

            These quotes are freely available.

            So lets recap…. They like an Ex-KGB dictator who murders people who speak up, and commits war crimes by bombing hospitals.

            That’s their idea of a strong leader.
            (It’s not that much of a reach I guess… Trump himself wants to torture people, and murder their non-combatant families. Also both war crimes. And don’t even f**king try to tell me he didn’t…. that’s on tape too)

            So what was your point again?

            Reply
          15. Paul Anthony December 12, 2016

            And Obama praised Fidel Castro.

            Reply
          16. charleo1 December 10, 2016

            Wrong. Progressivism brought the World Jesus Christ,
            The New Testament, the Magna Carta, the French, and American Revolutions, FDR, and the largest consumer class, creating the most powerful economic engine the World had ever seen. One the American Conservatives were not happy with at all. Because the power in large part resided with those wealthier consumers, and not them. Now, Stalin, Mao, and the rest ran on populous economic messages. Then used their revolutions to consolidate power for themselves. Which is a betrayal of Liberalism, Progressivism, and the very populist messages that brought them to power. Okay, now we’ve old demagoguing, lying Trump. Running on a message of progressive economic populism. Promising good pay, and jobs aplenty. With lots of safety and security. “Your,” Country restored to greatness, with the White European culture amply protected.
            While you think people trying to improve, and increase access to healthcare are the new Hitler. Hear the dissonance between fact, and fiction? I think not.

            Reply
          17. itsfun December 10, 2016

            Just how did a political class bring Jesus to the world? Are you trying to convince us that GOD is a liberal?

            Reply
          18. charleo1 December 10, 2016

            Read the gospel of the New Testament. The convincing is up to you. But it is not at all about political class. But about the ways that man in the new deal, as voiced thru Christ is to deal with his fellow man. In what is a kinder, more inclusive, and generous way. It is pure Progressivism meant to replace prior established societal norms.
            In the Old Book, God is a stern, jealous, World destroying, Conservative. Human life is cheap, and multitudes die. In the New he become the epitome of Liberalism. With the introduction of a path to immortality for a sinful mankind thru Christ the Redeemer. i.e.. The word Gospel, introduced in the New Testament means good news.
            Or you want to put a Conservative spin on all that free healthcare, and food Jesus went about handing out?

            Reply
          19. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

            Pinhead… thinking doesn’t become you.
            Let’s try baby steps.
            What was Jesus’ message to the people generally speaking, compared to the accepted political and social norms of the time?
            Would you consider this “Progressive” or “Conservative”?
            Try to use your words.

            Reply
          20. itsfun December 10, 2016

            well dickhead its no doubt you are a idiot and not worth my time.

            Reply
          21. Thoughtopsy December 12, 2016

            – Ad hominem.
            – Failure to understand the point.
            – Failure to answer the point.

            Yep. Another willfully ignorant hick.

            The funny thing is… whenever you and your stupid friends have no answer…. instead of doing what intelligent people with critical thinking skills do and trying to understand the point of the reply and the new information, facts and research that it may hold and either respond to it, or incorporate it into your world view…. you call names, divert, and protect your ignorance by running away… and trying to understand nothing.

            This is the essence of the conservative in the last decade… Resist anything that doesn’t confirm the beliefs you already hold.
            Real clever.

            Apparently ignorance is a virtue that you must protect at all costs.

            Reply
          22. itsfun December 12, 2016

            Your failure to understand anything except what Hillary and Obama tell you to except is just typical of your BS. President Trump get use to it.

            Reply
          23. Thoughtopsy December 14, 2016

            Diversion.
            Misdirection.
            Ignoring the point.

            Keep em coming. I can laugh at you all day as you fail to reply intelligently or to actual points.

            Reply
          24. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

            FFS learn some history. *sigh*

            Reply
          25. Dan S December 10, 2016

            I genuinely like it when you reference back to scripture to highlight the hypocrisy of the far right. You have a way of wording your argument much better than I can. Thank you very much for trying to educate these individuals who are oblivious to the dangers facing us as a nation

            Reply
          26. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

            Thank you. I try, and I believe it better to make people think about whether their attitudes as expressed here are consistent with their Religion—whether they be Muslim, Jew, Christian, Baha’i.
            I’ve had to question some fanatical Muslim, who I suspect is Iranian, whether he is living according to the tenets and spirit of Islam when he applauded the arrest of Baha’i youth and adults by Houthis in the capital city of Yemen for holding Children’s classes and performing other services for Muslim and Baha’i youth.

            (http://religionnews.com/2016/11/29/yemens-bahais-keep-the-faith-amid-conflict-and-crackdown/)

            Reply
        2. itsfun December 10, 2016

          President-elect Trump has gained votes in Wisconsin. Makes me wonder how many he would gain in California.

          Reply
          1. johninPCFL December 10, 2016

            It’s unlikely that Putin would have wasted resources changing California votes. Too much risk of discovery.

            But Putin starts ruling in January through his puppet, Agent Orange.

            Reply
          2. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

            He may gain all over the place.
            I still think it’s wise to double check.
            California also if necessary.
            Although if you’re referring to the “millions of illegals voting” tweet… well… I can’t help you.

            Reply
          3. itsfun December 10, 2016

            I don’t want or need your help.

            Reply
          4. Thoughtopsy December 12, 2016

            Dude… after watching you post here for a while… you need a whole mental hospital’s worth of help. And that still wouldn’t be enough.

            Remember how long you fought against the simple fact that the FBI is part of the DOJ?

            You can’t even f**king accept something so very simple, obvious and freely available.

            In light of that, it’s cruel to expect you to actually be curious and open to understanding facts about more complex things in the real world.

            Reply
          5. itsfun December 12, 2016

            “dude” Like I said I don’t’ need your help or advice on anything. You have no idea what the real world is like. You are just another one of the people that believe you can fix all the problems by sitting around a campfire and singing. You are simple minded. That is why I know it is cruel to expect any common sense out of you.

            Reply
          6. Thoughtopsy December 14, 2016

            Sorry I couldn’t hear you clear over the sound of all that ignorance.
            Who was the person who couldn’t understand basic fact about the reality of the US Government again?
            Pretty sure it wasn’t me.

            Reply
        3. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

          No-one (sane) expects the recounts to change who won, dimbulb. Dirty Donald is safe on his golden throne overlooking the swamp he is filling.

          Given the clear meddling by Russia, it would appear smart to find out how much meddling went on. Or are you suggesting that it’s patriotic to know Russia “did something” in your elections, but specifically not check to see what that something was?
          That sounds real smart.

          Also consider that you and your pinhead friends were screaming your heads off about how the election was rigged and your candidate was going to be treacherously denied his rightful place on the throne by dirty underhanded election rigging….. If Dirty Donald had lost by similar margins, you and your fellow “racism and sexual assault is ok by me” friends would be demanding recounts in every state, screaming your heads off about the death of your country, buying guns and marching with “Pitchforks and torches” against the rigged system.

          The moral high ground doesn’t suit you.

          Reply
          1. Mick Grosz December 10, 2016

            The claim that the Russians meddled in the election come from the same people that said a movie caused the attacks in Benghazi. It seems to hard for you people that voters in enough states just didn’t want “Crooked” Hillary. Grow up.

            Reply
      2. Olga Olinka December 10, 2016

        the votes have been counted, and Trump won. We are not afraid of anything, WI is 90% complete and the net difference is 60 votes

        Reply
    2. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 9, 2016

      Donald’s career of being a parasite and a pirate are drawing to a close, little do you know. Are you armed for killing any and all who trespass on your pathetic piece of turf?? Are the British still coming, Paul Revere??
      It is ALL about integrity, ArmedPatriot, which Donald totally lacks. But what would you care about integrity?

      And speaking of education, you can use some night courses.

      Reply
    3. johninPCFL December 10, 2016

      Yes – the only reason was to see how many votes Putin put into the totals.

      Reply
    4. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

      – Your side said that there WAS a reason to worry.
      – The various letter agencies now all say Russia meddled, but the scope is unclear. It would seem wise to find out.
      – Stein chose states where the vote totals were exceedingly close, and the number of errors were unusually high. If there was meddling by Russia, these are the likeliest states to find it in.
      – No-one, including Stein thinks this will change the outcome. Dirty Donnie is safe, buttercup.
      – There would appear to be no downside to doing a double check if the FEE HAS BEEN PAID. Unless of course you’re worried that this would further undermine Trump’s victory…

      A little worried are we?
      Try some facts, misogynist moron.

      It’s always amazing to me how often the trolls and Republicans on this site have names that include things like “Patriot” and “America” and “Freedom”… and say things that show they hate women and colored people.

      It’s almost like idiocy goes hand-in-hand with hating your fellow Americans… despite the classy name. Who knew?

      Reply
      1. Paul Anthony December 10, 2016

        I don’t hate anyone, but I dislike people who hate me for Not being a woman and/or a person of color. (It’s “person of color”, not “colored person”. If you must be a liberal, get your politically correct terms right)

        Reply
        1. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

          I don’t hate you and your ilk for not being female or a minority.

          I hate you because you demand rights, and compassion and assistance…. but don’t give it to anyone who isn’t white, and Christian.
          I’m not saying that the white Christian majority isn’t hurting. But where was your f**king compassion when the minorities were hurting, being disenfranchised, or being killed?

          I hate you because you took “Religious Freedom” which is the right to practice your own religion, and attend services of your own choice… and turned it into Religious Suppression laws where you get offended if OTHER PEOPLE don’t obey YOUR religion.
          It apparently doesn’t matter to you what their personal beliefs or personal religion is… Your “Religious Freedom” laws demand they follow YOUR religion.

          I hate you because you’re selfish, whiny hypocrites.
          White males are still top of the social systems in the US according to every single metric, but continue claiming “classic racism is over”, talk about “reverse racism being on the rise” (hint: that’s not a thing), call BLM terrorists based on one black guy killing people but call Dylan Roof a “lone gunman”, fail to vote for equal pay for women, and just voted in an angry, orange, racist, sexual predator endorsed by the KKK as your boss.

          I hate you and your friends because here’s how the typical conversation goes when we try to be polite and helpful:
          – You say something patently racist/misogynist/absurd/untrue.
          – I politely suggest you may like to consider the following reasons why what you said is racist/misogynist/absurd/untrue.
          – You ask for sources and evidence (as you should).
          – I post multiple sources and evidence for you to read.
          – You read half an article (or none) get angry then reply that all the evidence and sources are part of the mainstream liberal conspiracy.
          – I point out that the sources are mainstream, non-partisan, and widely accepted as correct. That facts are facts. That research is research.
          – You call me names, tell me to f**k, off and change the subject to something about Hillary’s emails.
          – I point out that you have not answered my points, or rebutted my evidence and you are now using ad hominem attacks and desperately trying to distract from the original point.
          – You either call me more names, or stop replying.

          This happens almost Every. Single. Time.

          This is why I hate you morons:
          Because you can’t argue politely and rationally with someone who:
          – refuses to be either polite or rational.
          – refuses to consider your evidence or reply to your points with counter-points, and supporting evidence.
          – descends into name calling or diversion the minute they can’t answer a point.
          – believes that their “strong opinion” based on willful ignorance is more true than scientific studies, expert research, and actual facts.

          I hate you and your friends because I actually feel DUMBER when I try to argue with you.
          I keep doing it because I feel that completely giving in to idiocy, truthiness, irrationality, and lies with no resistance is ultimately bad for humanity in general and politics specifically.

          But you and your know-nothing, learn-nothing friends no longer deserve my politeness or reason or compassion or respect in this forum.
          Because, speaking in generalized terms, you and your friends don’t give any. You never have.
          And moreover, I don’t think you realise that at all.

          Edit and Addendum: I don’t hate all Trump voters. By observation about 50% of them fall into the Internet Troll, crazy right wing, hypocritical evangelical, or gun-toting Patri-racist category and probably can’t be helped. They tend to display all the symptoms above, and love posting on this site for the flames and giggles. I hate them. They are the lazily ignorant, imperviously irrational and the deliberately destructive.

          About 50% of Trump votes are sane, sensible people who decided for whatever reason that he would do a better job for them, and somehow did not find his shall we say “bad” points disqualifying. I find that amazing… and somewhat sad. But I don’t “hate” them. Trump will gradually become unbearable to the more moderate and sensible end of the Republican party… Likely in the first 6-12 months of his shall we call it “Presidency”.
          Once he loses the more sensible moderates over his corruption, incompetence, and desperate desire to hold rallies instead of learning how to govern they will hop off the “Trump Train”… and Cheeto Jesus, you, and all your insane, bigoted and hypocritical friends in that half of Trump’s coalition (and often posting on here for the flame wars) will end up back under the rock that Russia helped you crawl out from.

          Reply
          1. Paul Anthony December 10, 2016

            Poor baby, it sounds like you could use a new circle of friends.
            And, BTW, I’m not a Christian but I still don’t hate anyone. You should try hating less. You might find that it allows you to meet nicer people.

            Reply
          2. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

            As predicted.
            – Ad hominem (then again, broadly, so was mine)
            – Diversion
            – Missing the point.
            – Not answering any point.

            I would love to try hating less, unfortunately people die when morons ignore facts. And that is another fact.
            Hate crimes are up massively, and some people are literally not going to survive the Trump Presidency.
            You start admitting facts and reason exist, and I’ll respectfully debate with you.

            Reply
          3. Thoughtopsy December 12, 2016

            It’s amusing how you continually post other people’s videos and pictures…
            Apparently you’re too stupid to write proper English, and not creative enough to speak for yourself.
            Hilarious.

            Every time you post another pre-made hate-picture I see a sad little man with no ability, ranting at the world in a desperate effort to distract from his own uselessness.
            Keep em coming, sad troll.
            It’s makes me laugh to know that deep down you know you’re that mindless and irrelevant.

            🙂

            Reply
          4. Thoughtopsy December 12, 2016

            Your teenaged tantrums in your mother’s Moscow basement don’t interest me, pinhead.

            Reply
          5. Thoughtopsy December 14, 2016

            Every time you post an image, I enjoy the feeling of knowing you’re not smart enough to actually type something. 🙂
            It’s highly enjoyable. :)))

            Reply
          6. GODBlessRealAmerica December 14, 2016

            Every time you respond it shows how ignorant and childish you are., I blame your Parents for raising your Ass!!! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4ae683aa3c1baebe3daf54ccbbfe97b41c588da96f1b6ceb9e664363daa05afa.jpg

            Reply
  2. Otto T. Goat December 9, 2016

    Obama appointed federal judge says no legal basis to continue recount.

    Reply
    1. Sand_Cat December 9, 2016

      Really? Did you make that one up?

      Reply
    2. JPHALL December 9, 2016

      Which ones?

      Reply
      1. itsfun December 10, 2016

        Its state law in Michigan, Stein did not have enough voted to request a recount. Hillary did, but she did not request the recount.

        Reply
  3. Bill Smith 999935 December 9, 2016

    “Experts” say. Yeah.

    Reply
  4. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 9, 2016

    A corrupt exercise of power? Yes, but Donald has already begun further corruption of democracy in America on other fronts,thus insuring a speedier demise of American values, and millions have given him the Green Light to proceed—so jaded have his supporters become.
    Corruption is now firmly hardwired as an instinctive response in Donald in order to further debase himself.

    “One can’t be debased enough” must be Donald’s motto — No inclination to aspire to higher values, whatsoever. An epic testament of moral failure, and a complete dismissal of nobility with no sense of remorse. Which speaks volumes of a man who has no fear of God, and lacking apprehension of what may lie in store for him in the Next World.
    (The GOP share the same qualities by and large.)

    Reply
    1. Dan S December 10, 2016

      And in further news it’s been reported by intelligence sources that Russia did in fact meddle in the Presidential Election to help put Trump over the top. That means any action by Trump as President will be illegal. This is by far the worst scandal to hit modern day politics in the US. If Trump knew that Russia was helping him he should be charged with treason

      Reply
      1. Olga Olinka December 10, 2016

        good jokes here, I love it! Please keep it coming

        Reply
        1. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

          Good attempt at English. Please keep trying.

          Reply
          1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

            Quite sick and repulsive. Your coprophagy fetish need not be shared with us. Is this a genetic trait running in the family??

            Reply
          2. GODBlessRealAmerica December 10, 2016

            Quite on point with what you liberal thugs say,,,,,it runs in your Family idiot. Now get lost little man!! Blow up doll u liberal pervert!

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/47f733aae6529e54d4d0325015a64132fc80e4617db0dca6133aabaa84ab75df.png

            Reply
          3. GODBlessRealAmerica December 14, 2016

            Good attempt of being smart!

            Reply
    2. Olga Olinka December 10, 2016

      the court has spoken..just because you don;t like it and call it corruption indicated that your mind and thinking is corrupt.

      Reply
      1. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

        Wow you really are the least useful Russian Troll I’ve seen on here.

        Reply
        1. GODBlessRealAmerica December 14, 2016

          WOW you are one ignorant low energy Liberal scum!

          Reply
      2. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

        Sure Olga—Whatever you say.

        Reply
        1. GODBlessRealAmerica December 10, 2016

          Sure liberal Democrackhead Aaron what eva ya say!

          Reply
          1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

            Being a name-calling juvenile is probably as far as you’ll ever get in this life. Are these the Christian values you’ve been taught in your up-bringing? Did your parents display the same lack of proper behavior as you’ve been showing??

            Reply
          2. GODBlessRealAmerica December 10, 2016

            Come on Aaron stop the jive talkin bs we know youre kind…
            Low energy. atheist thug, Liberal racist pig and a hater of Real America…Real America defeated you and you liberal pigs you are the enemy!!! We won you lost now go Cry, protest and burn your city or leave the country kid….we know what times it is & Liberalism lost here’s a nice video for ya idiot!

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVlHZh5dvbA

            Reply
          3. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 11, 2016

            A grown man like yourself fawning over Trump is abnormal—why humiliate yourself like this? Do your kids wear the pants in your house and change your diapers?
            Your juvenile behavior speaks volumes of the devastation wreaked on the minds of the those stricken by the constipated thinking of conservatism, and it brings shame on your parents.
            But you don’t care.

            Reply
          4. GODBlessRealAmerica December 12, 2016

            Aaron Great Video the liberals are crying, whining and protesting hahahhaaha It’s funny how you deflect on the real issues that you can’t accept PRESIDENT TRUMPS wi!!!

            It speaks Volumes of your foolishness, lies, hate, ignorance and low energy comments you area typical liberal Moron!!!

            I don’t blame you for your ignorance and hate I blame your parents who raised your ignorant low energy Ass!! Now go cry, whine, protest and vent! LOL https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/01a1da745fdc97ed63d8b921b55e7fc6b68f60e4cdfa521d97a44e431f92a437.jpg

            Reply
          5. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 13, 2016

            You must be thrilled to get your kick for the day. Not much of a life I take it.

            Reply
          6. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 11, 2016

            If you need a cheer-leader skirt and pom poms, respond with your size and address and I’ll have an out fit sent to you, with poms poms and a baton. You may strut down the street with a banner DONALD TRUMP with pride—please post a visual, won’t you?

            Reply
          7. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 13, 2016

            Nice name-calling, little man. You still haven’t given me your skirt size and address to send pom poms to you.

            Reply
          1. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 13, 2016

            Juvenile post, but that’s as good as you can hope for.

            Reply
  5. Lone Star Ray December 10, 2016

    The case was simple Stein was rules to have not standing because of the low number of votes that she received.

    Clinton could have had a chance to push for a recount, but clearly a 1.1% candidate needs to move on.

    Reply
  6. Paul Anthony December 10, 2016

    I might believe those who want a recount have honorable intentions if they also called for recounts in states that Hillary won. Why is it only important to verify the vote in states that Trump won?

    Reply
    1. johninPCFL December 10, 2016

      They requested recounts in states where the vote was close. Putin didn’t hack all of the states, so only a few need be checked.

      Reply
      1. Olga Olinka December 10, 2016

        wake up…Putin did not hack anything…get a life

        Reply
        1. Thoughtopsy December 10, 2016

          Fact: Russia meddled in multiple ways in the US elections according to the various US letter agencies.
          This is not opinion.
          The methodology and scope remains to be discovered.

          Your bias is showing.

          Reply
        2. johninPCFL December 10, 2016

          You’re right. He has minions for that. He just directs the operation.

          It’ll be interesting to see what his first instructions to Agent Orange lead to for the US.

          Reply
        3. Aaron_of_Portsmouth December 10, 2016

          Olga, how many weeks of borscht are you getting from the State for your efforts?

          Reply
  7. itsfun December 10, 2016

    Its the law in Michigan: Stein did not get enough votes to request a recount. Stein and her cronies were trying to get around the law. Hillary could have requested a recount according to state law.

    Reply

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