By Cynthia Tucker

Voter ID Laws Have But One Intent: To Limit The Franchise

October 26, 2013 12:00 am Category: Memo Pad, Politics 580 Comments A+ / A-
Voter ID Laws Have But One Intent: To Limit The Franchise

Belatedly, federal Judge Richard Posner has arrived at the obvious conclusion about voter identification laws: They are enacted as a barrier to the franchise, an un-American tactic hatched by conservatives to prevent certain people from voting. It’s too bad that his epiphany came so late.

Posner is one of the nation’s most respected conservative jurists. As a judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit, he might have led the nation’s highest court to reject new restrictions around voting. Instead, in 2007, Posner wrote the majority opinion that upheld Indiana’s stringent law, setting the stage for the U.S. Supreme Court to reason that it did no harm to an unfettered franchise.

That was quite wrong, as Posner now acknowledges. While he disavowed his earlier endorsement of the law in a new book, Reflections of Judging, he went further in a video interview earlier this month with The Huffington Post, saying that the dissenting view was the right one.

In that dissent, the late Judge Terence Evans wrote: “Let’s not beat around the bush: The Indiana voter photo ID law is a not-too-thinly-veiled attempt to discourage election-day turnout by certain folks believed to skew Democratic.” That about sums it up.

Still, I see in Posner’s late-arriving epiphany occasion for hope that debates about obstacles to voting, which have proliferated in states controlled by Republicans, will now proceed with more intellectual honesty. Let’s give up the preposterous justification that the barrage of new restrictions around the franchise — regulations that include limits on early voting — are intended to prevent voter fraud.

Recently, the consequences of those restrictions have been clear in Texas, which was among the states that rolled out new measures after the U.S. Supreme Court decimated the Voting Rights Act earlier this year. (Posner has had interesting comments about that decision too, dismissing its intellectual and legal foundations as non-existent. “The opinion rests on air,” he wrote.)

Eighty-four-year-old Dorothy Card, a Texas resident, has voted for six decades, but she stopped driving 15 years ago and doesn’t have a driver’s license, the ID preferred in voter-suppression states. By late last month, she had tried three times to obtain an ID that would allow her to vote in November elections, according to Think Progress, a left-leaning political blog. Her daughter said she would keep trying but with little expectation of success since each attempt required a different set of documents.

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  • Lynda Groom

    Well duh!

  • John Pigg

    The Indiana voter law is not contentious with any Democrats within the state that I have encountered. Even if I wanted to, I couldn’t find a single Democrat that would oppose it. Everyone thinks it is a common sense measure to strengthen the franchise. Mr. Obama was still perfectly capable of taking the state in 08. The law did not affect turnout in the slightest… except for inconveniencing low level election officials. It was far more difficult to check each persons drivers license when they voted than it was previously, but our precinct did not have a single person show up who did not have a state drivers license. And measures are in place to ensure that those without identification can receive it at no additional cost.

    For Hoosiers presenting a drivers license is a reasonable request to ensure that they are whom they say they are. There is a difference between Indiana, and Mississippi.

    • Lola Johnson

      So there is not one person in your precinct who no longer drives or can’t afford a car?? That no one showed up without a license suggests that voting was indeed successfully suppressed.

      • John Pigg

        There are other methods of providing ID then a drivers license. The county also sends mobile units out to those unable to make it to the polls.

        If just one elderly Republican voter complained they would find a way to grandfather those types in, and if they were an elderly Democrat then their precinct committeemen would have instantly contacted Indianapolis with a front page example of a disenfranchised voter.

        The truth is the Democrats found as few examples of those disenfranchised as Republicans found cases of elections fraud.

        The fact remains it is a good idea to require evidence of who you are.

        Some states have a history of racial, and election discrimination. And should not be allowed to institute this policy. Still others are important battleground states and institution there requires close scrutiny.

        But as far as Indiana voters are concerned this is not a controversial measure.

        You find me three examples in the entire state of disenfranchised voters in 2006 or later and I will consider changing my mind.

        • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

          “In Indiana and Georgia, states with the earliest versions of photo ID laws, about 1,300 provisional votes were discarded in the 2008 general election, later analysis has revealed. ” http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws

          • Allan Richardson

            When I moved to Georgia two years ago, I was impressed that a “red” state actually allowed some leniency in voter ID laws. Of course, who knows what the NEXT version of the law will do?

            One characteristic of several state voter laws is that they were to go into effect requiring NEW types of ID before even reasonably alert voters would have time to get the NEW one.

          • John Pigg

            Because those provisional ballots did not meet the conditions required for eligibility.

            Now why did they not meet them? Were they unable to meet them (National Dem Argument), or were they too lazy to return with ID (National Rep Argument).

            The fact remains without knowing who cast the ballot and whether they were unwilling or unable to return we will not be able to conclusively say whether or not they were disenfranchised.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            Apparently you support disenfranchising voters because of race, political affiliation, etc. I personally feel we should do everything we can to encourage people to participate in our democracy not make it harder. You say people are too lazy, perhaps they are just so discouraged by the obstacles put in their way they give up.
            Our men and women who have given life and limb defending Democracy in foreign countries, must be so disgusted with the way we are tearing Democracy down right here at home.

          • John Pigg

            I never said people are lazy. I do not support disenfranchising the electorate. I favor strengthening suffrage by people proving who they say they are.

            In Indiana this is not a controversial topic. Voters of both major parties support it. And it wasn’t passed for partisan gain. And all of my Democratic friends support it.

            Indiana is in a different category than states that have a longstanding history of voter suppression. And states that are passing this policy for blatantly partisan agendas. Indiana is different. I know because I live there. For us it works.

            As to your number of provisional ballots, you have no method of proving whether or not those people lack ID, or if they opted not to return the following morning and present the ID they already had. National Republicans and National Democrats have their own version of who lies in those numbers. But without knowing who they are and what their situation was the numbers prove little.

          • THS_Warrior

            The reason you receive so few UP votes in national forums like this is because you are a conservative white male trying too hard to argue against the right to vote in a democracy Mr. Pigg.
            I suggest that you either rethink your anti-democratic premise or take your “yes, but” anti-democracy arguments to some other public forum where the participants are not as intelligent as those who comment here.

        • Allan Richardson

          Just to get your philosophy straight, which would you rather see, one person unable to vote despite being legally qualified, or one person casting a fraudulent vote and not getting caught?

          What about 1,000 people who deserve to vote not being allowed, vs 10 people casting fraudulent votes and not getting caught?

          This is like the old philosophical question about whether it is better to execute the innocent lest a guilty person go free, or let a few guilty persons go free to avoid executing the innocent.

          And in all these questions, would your answer change if you or a loved one were in the wrong category?

          • John Pigg

            It’s not about numbers with me Mr. Richardson. It’s about proving that you are who you say you are. Most industrialized countries have far stricter requirements related to voting suffrage than we do.

            In Indiana the voters said they had no problem with this policy. Getting ID might be difficult for 1% of the voting population but there are significant measures to assist them in acquiring documentation.

            It’s not because I think voting is not important. I think voting is so important that a photo ID should be required.

            ***(@*#$(#*$& THAT BEING SAID, Indiana’s common sense photo ID law is not at all on the same plane as GA, TX, Miss, or any other Southern State that has a long history of voter suppression.
            ————-

            I really don’t see this as a Dem v Rep argument. I see it as a common sense issue for my state, and you won’t hear an argument from local Dems or Reps.

          • THS_Warrior

            Have you ever considered the possiblity that there are great differences between Indiana’s voter demographics and social background when compared to many of the other 49 states in the United States of America like “…GA, TX, Miss, or any other Southern State that has a long history of voter suppression”?
            Do you really believe that Indiana’s more sophisticated way to suppress voter turnout by demanding proof of citizenship in all Indiana elections should be imposed upon all other states?
            Why are

          • John Pigg

            Never did I advocate that this policy be imposed on all states. I am really confused about how you came up with that.

            I am not suggesting my states superiority. Merely, I am suggesting that the backwardness of Texas, NC, and the obvious partisanship at play in PA. This is what makes these states policies intrinsically different from the policy we instituted in Indiana.

            What works, and is popular in Indiana is being used to disenfranchise, and racially charge elections in the South. That doesn’t change the fact that in Indiana its not a controversial issue.

          • John Pigg

            I never claimed Indiana’s system should be put over the entire US.

            I said it works for Indiana voters, it doesn’t affect turnout, there are no racial undertones related to this policy. And voters Blue and Red have no issues with it.

            Hoosiers are not morally superior. But this legislation does not have the same partisan, racial, or disenfranchising tone that is prevalent in the states currently instituting it.

            I have repeated this argument numerous times. It is not fair to include my state where this is popular with a southern state, or battle ground state where the subtext is obvious. And this is the position I have reiterated in this entire thread.

          • THS_Warrior

            “It is not fair to include my state where this is popular with a southern state, or battle ground state where the subtext is obvious.”
            Ths underlying problem in America is the lingering false belief in the inherent goodness of separatism, when in fact anything that acts to separate or exclude one group of humans from other groups works against God’s universal plan.
            Separatist attitudes such as yours, demonstrated by your use of exclusionary phrases such as “in my state” or “in your state” or “its not fair” necessarily incorporate human judgment which in the end always leads to division, strife and wars.
            The United States of America must grow up and become what the name describes, else all is lost.

          • John Pigg

            I do not understand the point on separatism you are trying to make.

            But it sounds like your comment does not understand the benefits of a Federal system. And under a Federal system states are allowed to explore what policies work, and which do not. The same policy that might work extremely well in one state, might fail completely in another.

            There is nothing divisive about this fact. California has high taxes, and offers a great deal of state services. Mine offers low taxes, few services, and jobs do not pay as well. Trade-offs..

            What makes the US great is that we have varied states that can try different approaches. It’s fairly obvious that Photo ID is being used to discriminate in southern states. It is not used this way in Indiana, and thats a fact.

          • THS_Warrior

            You are ignoring the vast differences between federal elections and in local, county and state elections conducted in each of the 50 states. The federal election laws are different than many other election laws because the Constitution requires some things that some states do not require or cannot provide.

          • John Pigg

            Well I misconstrued your separatism remark to mean that you thought federalism was faulty.

          • THS_Warrior

            My earlier comment that you misconstrued was written at a much higher level of consciousness than the comment about the important differences betwee federal elections as compared to local, county and state elections.
            In this political contex, the best example of the inherent evils of “separatism” are 50 “independent” sovereign states constantly at odds (war) with each other over stupid issues.
            (Moving up to a higher level than politics): Human ego, pride and (ill-informed) judgments combine to cause most humans to act silly, insisting that “their state” (or their car, or their city, or their house, or job, or whatever) is “better than” yours, “better than” mine and “better than” whatever anyone else has. “Federalism” can be seen as the opposite of political separatism. Instead of having 50 separate prideful states yelling at each other, federalism forces humans to think collectively, think past their own state lines. The next step is the hardest: To swallow pride and do whatever is necessary for the good of the entire nation. That is what statesmen do.

          • idamag

            Three of the foreign countries I have been in, France, Germany, and Austria, issue ID cards to all eligible voters. They can use these cards anywhere in the country. We were traveling with an Austrian couple from Griffin to Vienna for a holiday. There is a fine for not voting. Somewhere, close to Vienna, they stopped at a building and voted.

          • John Pigg

            It’s really interesting how other countries run elections. I know in Belgium it’s illegal to not vote, and you can be imprisoned. I know in France you can even vote by proxy. (have a sister/bro vote in your place)

            As a policy I like the idea of mandatory voting, but I would not support its institution within the US. Seems un-american.. your thoughts?

            I know our state offers a precinct voter card. But nobody can ever seem to find them. And low income people would most likely be more disenfranchised by requiring this extra document because it would only be used twice biyearly.

          • idamag

            Since the incident of voter fraud is less than 1%, I would rather see the supposed voter fraud take place than disenfranchise one legal voter. The right to vote is that sacred to me.

          • Allan Richardson

            I figured you would agree with me on that. I actually addressed that to the people who don’t care how many legal voters are disenfranchised to stop the alleged “fraud.” I suspect the ones who really DO want to disenfranchise minorities, students, Latinos, Muslim Americans, women (other than Stepford wives), etc. would admit they want to, and claim that those groups really do not deserve to vote, because they are lazy/uninformed/on-the-plantation/feminazi/whatever. Oh, and Latino voters are “all illegals.” The sheep who believe whatever that other group say really do believe there is lots of fraud, and no real obstacle to “real” voters getting the new ID (they tend to have NO acquaintance with anyone who has had to fight such obstacles). I just wanted to get their views out in the open, but they do not seem to want to reply (except that they will probably call me some nasty name after reading this).

  • terry b

    Fascism has overtaken the republican party and what better way to keep that power than suppress the votes of people who would vote democratic? Hate to seen my country being overrun by such terrible people but its happening, a lot. Hope we can somehow stop them.

    • foundingprinciples

      There is no voter suppression. The idea is absurd. Read what I wrote above.

      • highpckts

        There is a miniscule chance of voter fraud also! So why do this if not to skew the polls!!

        • foundingprinciples

          There is no voter suppression. Liberal myth.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            “There is no voter suppression” Conservative lie.

          • http://www.examiner.com/political-rebuttal-in-national/michael-ross Michael Ross

            Not only is there voter suppression, several Republicans have flat out admitted as much.

            This was still on the National Memo’s front page. Did you seriously not think anyone else would see it?

            http://www.nationalmemo.com/6-other-times-republicans-admitted-voting-restrictions-are-just-about-disenfranchising-democrats/

          • foundingprinciples

            I caught you in so many distortions and lies. I found out about the Massachusetts lie you tried to pass off. You are dishonest to the core.

          • http://www.examiner.com/political-rebuttal-in-national/michael-ross Michael Ross

            You didn’t catch me lying. Instead, you made something up and PRETENDED you caught me lying.

            Not only that, you lied about what I had written ON THE VERY SAME PAGE THAT I HAD WRITTEN IT.

            How compulsive a fraud are you that you can’t even be truthful about that which is right in front of you for the entire world to see?

          • foundingprinciples

            You sent me to the regulations/requirements to get a driver’s license. There was no discussion about driver’s licenses.

            Your dishonesty is obvious.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            That’s Cause Lying Cheating Stealing And Gerrymandering Is The ONLY Way They Can Win!!!!

          • plc97477

            And if they continue to become more and more crazy even those won’t help.

          • John Pigg

            love that skit

          • Mark Forsyth

            Tell that to the Republicans who have already admitted that there is voter suppression.

          • idamag

            Saw the guy say it on Jon Stewart. The interviewer asked him if it had to do with race and he said no, it was to kick the Democrats butts.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            Exactly!!!

          • Mark Forsyth

            I didn’t see that but I heard about it..Racists never admit that they are racist but what do you do with them? How does one deal with the willfully and obstinately ignorant.Merchants of hate and fear.

          • THS_Warrior

            “Racists never admit that they are racist but what do you do with them? How does one deal with the willfully and obstinately ignorant.Merchants of hate and fear.”
            Response: We deal with the racists and liars most effectively by posting TRUTHFUL comments like yours Mark Forsyth.
            I am sure you have heard the old saw about telling lies over and over: “If you tell a lie long enough and/or loud enough, people will begin to believe it.” Turn that around and do the same with the Truth. People tend to believe whatever they hear the most.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Too late.You are out.Your little attempt to take the moral high road was doomed before you began.

          • infadelicious

            THS: Is that how you deal with racists? Then where the hell are Mark’s or your, for that matter , TRUTHFUL comments to Dave Waggoner? And people who do not confront blatant racism such as hypocrites you are chatting with like idamag plc97477 and nirodha and more that upvoted d. waggoner when he insulted me before the slurs. They were there!!!!! Then the hypocritical cowards turned tail and ran when he used the n word and later made a slur against homosexuals.. yep! None of you have any credibility discussing your hatred for racists, when there was one there to deal with and you went MIA. I am the only one who called him out and you guys call me the racist? Twist this around so it’s about me, and throw more insults, that just proves what i am saying is true. I don’t care, you have to live with the FACT you let that slide, which is next best thing to having said it yourself. if a black person or a gay person or even your children were standing by your computer that day would you have said anything? probably, but you got to just slink away . You thought noone would notice. Teach your kids, that if they even think someone with differerent political views than them to be racist, bash them good.. If the guy using the N -word and slurs against other groups of people voted for the same guy as you. let it go. that’s cool.. And you wonder why the country is more divided than ever. THS, for someone who fought racism as a civil rights trial lawyer, you sure don’t walk the walk on this website, And don’t tell me I am giving one person too much attention. You are giving racism too much attention which is not a bad thing, if you are gonna put your money where your mouth is. Either put up or shutup about how you are the great fighters of racism. Man the **** up all of you.

          • THS_Warrior

            That pacifier you suck on ceratinly does nothing for you infant.
            Shut up and wait. I will get to you when the timing is right.

          • ozzy mo

            well, if it is John Stewart.. then it has to be true!! what idiots u people are!

          • idamag

            The thing is, it was a live interview.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Yeah,but as I’m sure you are aware,from his perspective,that even Boehner,were he to appear on Stewarts program would lose all credibility in his blurry eyes.

          • Guest

            Not only IS there voter suppression, but many of the people engaging in it have flat out admitted as much.

            How bankrupt of a soul are you that the G.O.P. can laugh in your face about how they’re screwing over Democracy and you continue to whore yourself out to them?

        • idamag

          Any time they purge a bunch of voters just before an election, there is a reason. The last purge of 5000 netted no people who should not have been allowed to vote. We need universal laws to protect the voters. It cannot be left up to the states and more than civil rights could be left up to Mississippi.

          • Allan Richardson

            Everyone’s right to vote should be guaranteed in the federal Constitution, but denial of that right due to ERRORS in writing laws, ERRORS in procedures, or any other kind of “bad luck” caused by the state’s actions, even innocently, should result in an automatic claim for damages from the state to the voter. I would suggest $100 thousand per voter per election, claimable merely by showing evidence to a federal judge in a fifteen minute hearing. This would give states an incentive to write and execute their voting laws more carefully. It would also give the suppressed voters, however many there are, some working capital to escape from poverty.

            And if foundingprinciples believes there is no voter suppression, then passage of such an amendment should create facts on the ground to determine whether he is right; according to him, there should be no valid damage claims after any election.

          • idamag

            If, for every purged name that wasn’t supposed to be, the state was fined $100,000, it would put a stop to disciminate purging.

      • elw

        Then answer this question, that why do the voter suppression laws go so much further than just asking for ID. All of them include methods that make it harder for people to vote in ways the affect the elderly, lower income and minority groups. They shorten the early voting periods, reduce the number of polling sites and include citizen policing methods that make it easy for people to get intimidated. Now you explain to me what the purpose of those unrelated extras have to do with voter fraud.

        • foundingprinciples

          Don’t even need early voting periods. Did not have them in our history.

          In our country, it only began in 1992!

          • THS_Warrior

            Why are Americans who claim to be freedom fighters restoring our founders’ liberal views and living in a democracy so afraid to allow everyone to vote? Oil and gas do not mix.

          • foundingprinciples

            The Founders were “liberals,” all right. But CLASSIC Liberals, and there is a difference. Complete difference. Not even recognizable.

          • THS_Warrior

            If so then you must be a CLASSIC conservative, right?
            They lost America then, and you neo-cons are losing America now. Why? Because the People have never changed. Freedom cannot be stopped by any group of earthlings regardless of the labels they use or masks they wear.
            Good, God, overcomes evil-doing evey time and everywhere.

          • foundingprinciples

            I am close to a classic Liberal! Don’t you even know what that is? How can you have a rational exchange if you do not even know what you are spouting off about?

          • WhutHeSaid

            You are NOT close to any kind of liberal. What you are is somebody who wants the benefits provided by liberal ideals (read: America) while avoiding any responsibilities that come along with them. An ideological deadbeat, if you will.

          • foundingprinciples

            I am. I went to graduate schools where most of the students and profs were Left-winger. I worked around Leftists. I know you will call me a liar, but soon after I graduated college, a co-worker was actually a card-carrying member of the Communist Party, and I went to two meetings. Learned a lot.

          • nirodha

            Where did you go to grad school?

          • foundingprinciples

            You are joking with such a question, right?

          • nirodha

            No, not at all. Where did you go to grad school?

          • Lynnette Gentry

            Tea Bagging Home Schooling

          • THS_Warrior

            “I know you will call me a liar, but soon after I graduated college, a co-worker was actually a card-carrying member of the Communist Party, and I went to two meetings. Learned a lot.”
            Response: We believe you……are a liar that is.

          • foundingprinciples

            That is the lazy mentality of Liberals: Simply call the person a liar. No wonder Real Americans get fed up with Left-wingers.

          • THS_Warrior

            FYI: You conservatives have been calling President Obama a liar ever since he announced his candidacy way back in 2007. In fact, we progressives recall one of your elected conservative friends in the House showing his arse by screaming “you lie” at President Obama while President Obama was addressing a joint session of the legislature in 2009 or early 2010.
            Real Americans have real class; you conservatives have lots of class, but all of it is low.

          • foundingprinciples

            No, Obama is not really a liar at all. It is just his worldview that is troubling. He is a national and international disgrace, the worst stain on our history.

          • THS_Warrior

            OMG, there he goes again, changing his method of attack: “No, Obama is not really a liar at all.”
            Then please explain why have you and a zillion other racist conservatives been calling President Obama a liar on all these public threads since 2009?
            Here is floundering principles new angle of attack: “It is just his worldview that is troubling.”
            FYI: President Obama shares the same exact “worldview” as President Lincoln some 155 years ago. So I guess you would have joined up with the crazy conservative racists of that dark era in American history too? Am I right?
            Now listen to floundering priciples trying to hide his lilly white conservative skin and his evil thoughts: “He is a national and international disgrace, the worst stain on our history.”
            Are you really sure about that? Do you really beleive President Obama is worse than President Lincoln was?

          • foundingprinciples

            Obama has actually duped the Liberals into believing that tripe about being like Lincoln. Amazing. The minions and sycophants.

          • THS_Warrior

            I am told that your real name is James B Connelly PhD, and that you have been kicked off several different public fora operated by Disqus, and that foundingprinciples is one of several private screen names you use interchangably intentionally trying hard to hide you real identity. Care to comment?

          • foundingprinciples

            Oh, gossiping are we? It is interesting that no matter how hard I tried to have a reasoned and rational discussion as an adult, you manage to lower the exchange to gossiping and personal attacks.

          • THS_Warrior

            One of my life’s greatest pleasures as a trial attorney is asking questions that stun adverse witnesses into dumb silence– or better yet– cause the adverse witness to make feeble attempts to evade the force of the question. I look at the smiling jury and announce: “No further questions your Honor.”
            You are done..

          • foundingprinciples

            You did “investigating” to find out as much as you could about me. That shows fear and pettiness. If you were really capable, you would simply deal with the issues, not that kind of petty gossip. I see nothing else from you. I do not believe that you were a lawyer, of course: It is obvious from the way you write and present your thoughts. But you probably have picked up some habits from attorneys you have experienced or seen on television/movies: Try to badger, intimidate and bully the other.

            You can save your efforts. Won’t work on me because I see right through you.

          • THS_Warrior

            You are a chronic liar. You are also way out of your league.

          • foundingprinciples

            I have yet to see a single post by you dealing with concepts or ideas. Every single one is a personal attack. You expend a lot of time and effort to try to find out who I am, when you could simply be using that time and energy to think, rather than gossip.

            But people are what they are.

          • THS_Warrior

            We can settle this discussion by examining the actual record:
            As of this moment Disqus reports that I have posted 7,157 comments using the same screen name; now have 16 followers, am following 95 other people posting on Disqus fora, and have received 5,759 “up votes” reflecting a Disqus “batting average” of .8048 (80.48% agree with my substantive analyses and reasoned opinions).
            By comparison, Mr. “foundingprinciples” has posted just 2,497 comments (under this latest screen name); has attracted only 3
            followers (including me); and is following 64 other people who post on Disqus fora. Here is the REAL tell: foundingprinciples has only received 422 “up votes” on his 2,497 comments, which reflects a pitiful “batting average” of 16.9% who agee with him.

          • idamag

            Damn you are good.

          • THS_Warrior

            That’s what she said….

          • THS_Warrior

            If you think you can change horses in mid-stream without getting wet you are a classic fool. Only a classic idiot would try to win an agument by lying about himself.
            Every comment you made prior to this one harkens back to the days-and beliefs- of our brilliant Founding Fathers– until some others commenting here informed you that the Founders were all liberals, not conservatives.
            Instead of going away quietly defeated, you started arguing that they were “Classic” liberals, as if using that unnecessary word “classic” meant “conservative.” When that ruse didn’t work you claimed that you are “close to a classic liberal” which everyone else here knows is a joke. You are the joke. Hahahahahaha!!!

          • foundingprinciples

            Liberalism today is antithetical to the Founding principles.

            Have the guts to look up the Classical Liberalism. Have some honesty and make some simple mental effort. Turn off MSNBC and think.

            Look up the definition and you will see that I am what I say. Do you know, for example, that Milton Friedman was a “Classic Liberal?”

            You do not even understand what you negate. Look it up, get back, then we can have a reasoned discussion like adults.

          • idamag

            The more freedom is suppressed and the more voting rights are tampered with, the more people will fight back.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            We Will Fight To The Death!! If We Have To Camp Out Over Night To Vote We Will Do It!!! :-)

          • elw

            What exactly is a Classic Liberal? I do not think I have ever heard that term before.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake
          • WhutHeSaid

            Have you been twerking to this video? Shame on you!

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake

            Screw you…

          • WhutHeSaid

            You’re pretty sensitive, now aren’t you. Just thought I help prevent you making a fool of yourself, but hey — whatever gets your ya-yas out, I guess.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake

            Bir av tüfeği emmek git.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Well, so you think you can just sashay in here and proclaim yourself Queen of The National Memo, is that right? Go suck a shotgun yourself, sunshine.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            Guess What He Hasn’t Heard Of Them Either You Know How They Like To Make Crap Up Don’t You!! Professional LIARS!!!

          • foundingprinciples

            It is a common term. I think that Wiki, hardly a “right-winger” site, has a good summary in a couple of sentences. I hope you are not too lazy to look it up, and just mock Wiki. If you do not like Wiki, look other places. I will not run errands because it is so easy to find a succinct description.

          • elw

            It would figure that you would take anything in Wiki as gospel. You should not flatter yourself by calling yourself “almost a liberal.” You are no where close to one. I find it strange that you would even want to, unless you are trying to hide who you are and what you really believe in.

          • foundingprinciples

            I was certain that you would refuse to think, and make such an excuse. If you are willing to take a look at what a “Classic Liberal” is sometime, please get back to me and maybe there is a possibility you can act like an adult and have a reasoned discussion instead of these lame excuses to avoid.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            Reading the names and the language you have used to other posters – CLASS is not a word you should be using or defining people by.

          • elw

            Ok, by your reasoning let’s see what else we don’t need because we have not had them throughout history. How about cars, and planes that take voters miles away from their voting districts for business, how about work environments in which people have to work long shifts, or computers and the Internets which make it easy to compute and send vote totals in minutes instead taking the ballots via horse back for hundreds of miles.

          • kmkirb

            Yay elw, back to the horse & buggy, & the pony express, LOL. Love it :)

          • foundingprinciples

            The Left-winger misses the point entirely. I am only referring to 20 years ago when it barely existed! Just emerging. Took another decade to really get going. Only just about 10 or so years ago, this did not exist.

            And you write about “horseback?” You lose all credibility with statements like that.

          • elw

            Oh so to you history mean just the last 20 years and you think that is credible. Hey, but that’s alright we know you guys would love to take this Country back at least 100 years.

          • foundingprinciples

            I see. Before 20 years ago, voters all over the country – according to your “logic” – were oppressed. I see….

          • elw

            Actually this Country has a long history of voter suppression which continues today with the use of procedures that make it difficult to vote; Limiting the availability of time to vote is a common one. But the point of my comment was not about that, it was about the silliness of your reasoning that because we haven’t always done it throughout history, we do not need it. Reasoning that people who are regressives always seem to use.

          • foundingprinciples

            No. You are having difficulty with concepts. I have to spell it out, I guess. All it means that just a couple of decades ago, even barely a decade in most states, there was no early voting, and people did what was necessary to vote. I do not remember my parents, their friends, or any relative or neighbor – not a single one – ever saying that they felt oppressed or even inconvenienced.

            Left-wingers want everything on a platter and claim “oppression” if voters have to make any efforts at all.

            Did I tell you what my friends and I had to go through to vote, pal?

          • idamag

            before 1962 it was anything, but democratic. Poll taxes, literacy tests and shotguns ruled the polls.

          • elw

            Yes and the Radical Right would love to go back to that.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Things Change Progressivley Deal with it.

      • TomCamfield

        I’ve always been fascinated by the fact that a gun permit is sufficient identification at the polls if you live in Texas.

        Voter ID laws rate right up there with gerrymandering, which helped bring us the absurd tea party House of Representatives we have obstructing our society’s progress today.

        • foundingprinciples

          The patriots of the Tea Party’s representative in Congress are doing what the people elected them to do: Stop the undermining of our Constitution and get spending under control. They are living up to the promises they made to their constituents. If they did not, Liberals would say that they are liars.

          • WhutHeSaid

            They’ve always been liars. All of America despises the Tea Bigots and what they stand for. They have the lowest approval rating of any political group in history — approximately as popular as projectile vomit.

            It won’t be very long until the Tea Party becomes synonymous with the KKK, so you may as well dig up your old robes and hoods and get them cleaned and pressed because nobody is fooled anymore.

          • foundingprinciples

            The patriots of the Tea Party are not a political group, of course.

            Only 1/3 of the population supported our Founders. According to your Liberal Logic, they should have failed.

          • WhutHeSaid

            The Founders were all liberals, so much for your failed attempt to reference logic.

            Tea Bigots aren’t patriots, rather, they are bitter, sordid bigots who have never contributed anything of value to this country. A good portion of them are in dire need of professional psychiatric intervention.

          • foundingprinciples

            The Founders were Classic Liberals, and there is a complete difference. Stop being lazy and look it up. Wiki has a nice summary. Just go to Wiki and look. Simple. Easy. Takes a bit of honesty to shut off the television, stop mouthing the tropes of the Left, and check something out for yourself. Try it.

          • WhutHeSaid

            As if saying ‘classic’ makes any difference. You just can’t reconcile the fact that America is a great liberal experiment with your wish to be the opposite without the associated penalties. You want the benefits created by that great liberal experiment while remaining vile and greedy — a selfish and bigoted deadbeat.

          • foundingprinciples

            Some Left-winger said the Founders were “liberals” to make it sound like the ones who call themselves Liberals today somehow are realizing the ideals and wishes of the Founders, of course. Can’t you freakin’ read? Can’t you see that is what some Left-winger did?

            So, one can find the term “liberal” listed next to descriptions of the Founders, but they were CLASSIC Liberals.

            But you have no idea of the difference. Not a bit. Nothing.

          • WhutHeSaid

            The term ‘liberal’ is next to the Founders’ descriptions because that’s what they were. Classic used in this sense just means ‘from the past’. Liberal ideals have progressed over the years, but you don’t understand any of it. All you know is that you want the rewards created by said liberal ideals without the responsibilities required. This is the common goal of deadbeats everywhere: to get what they want without having to pay for it.

          • foundingprinciples

            {The term ‘liberal’ is next to the Founders’ descriptions because that’s what they were. Classic used in this sense just means ‘from the past’. }

            Nope. You are wrong. And you are too freakin’ lazy to look up what Classic Liberalism is and discuss it. I am not going to find the explanation and put it up because you are too mentally lazy to even read it and think about it.

            Until you are willing to make some small effort, suffice to say that you are completely wrong.

          • kmkirb

            And that is exactly what a ‘Classic Liberal’ is all about, & why IT, the lying ass stooge, is now trying to change IT’s stance thinking the rest of us are just as brainwashed & stoooooopid as IT the jerkwad. IT is a selfish, stingy, greedy,self centered, self absorbed, narcissist who believes (no thinking there mind you, & especially not critical thinking), ‘It’s all mine & I want it all & more. So just go off & starve & die already so I can have yours too. We should never have the government take money from the people to help the people. I want it all for me, me, me, & if it doesn’t work out, then guess I’ll just go off & die too. Hmmm, guess I should have put some thought processing into it first.

            IT’s a first cut rate slime of the slime, above all other slime pond scum of the lowest form & order.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Take your own advice.

          • foundingprinciples

            Still didn’t look it up, eh? Typical.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Look asshole,how many times do you have to be told what republican congressmen have been saying on network T.V. and is in the newspapers.Efforts to suppress the vote have been taking place.You are the only one pushing propaganda on this page.No one here but you is making anything up,you schmuck.Why don’t you ask your own representatives? Is the reason you don’t because you don’t have one because you’re not registered to vote? Yet you persist in your stupidity on this page.
            We all have had quite enough of your ignorance.It’s time for you to fuck off.You will convince nobody here of a lie.

          • foundingprinciples

            There is no voter suppression, of course. Turn off MSNBC.

          • sigrid28

            I have decided foundingprinciples is a troll, maybe a plant. His avuncular tone is rich, isn’t it? If this person actually believes the things he or she writes, it is instructive to see the GOP/TP bubble in action. Voters like foundingprinciples represent about 25% of the U.S. population at the most, with another 25% or so being neo-Cons and maybe moderate Republicans, who would be happy to be represented by a photo of Milton Friedman waving a pencil. These posts illustrate the need to get out the vote in 2014 to allow young, multicultural, and women voters to help us oust the obstructionists in the House and hold onto the Senate, maybe even get a filibuster-proof majority.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Well Sigrid,I think you are being awfully generous to call [him,she,it] a troll.The variety of the ignorance of these posters is quite amazing.foundingprinciples is like the soldier who refuses to believe his General telling him that the war is over.Might just as well ignore him as he is ignoring everything else.Typical though,ignorant people ignore the truth.Must be the fear factor at work.
            Yes we have a huge task in the coming year to achieve a clean-out of the congress- but enthusiasm not withstanding,I do believe it is possible even if we are not able to change any minds in the electorate

          • idamag

            They grow up in rural areas where there is not a lot of diversity nor exchange of thoughts. When you grow up debating cows and sheep you don’ t realize there is differences of opinion. Yours is right.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Well I thank you for the compliment and the vote of confidence. I think that the scenario you describe is ignorance caused by circumstance.That is something that can be overcome.But then you have those who refuse to accept anything that they are not already convinced they know.That is willful ignorance and as we have seen down through the years those folks are often willing to engage in violence to defend their right to exercise their ignorance no matter who may be harmed by it.
            Unfortunately I do not need to come on the Memo page to encounter ignorant trolls.I live on the St.Lawrence River in northern New York State.Though New York is a Blue state,this part of it is incredibly red and has been since I was a child.There are a goodly number of Democrats hereabouts but we have learned to keep our heads down in certain social environments.A good percentage of the local population attends fundamentalist type churches where along with the cockide dogma they are also instructed in how to vote.So it is easy to see how certain things go hand in hand and that there are none so blind as they who will not see.
            Keep The Faith [pun intended]

          • sigrid28

            I’m all for Wiki and for book learnin’ as well. What did you think of the HBO series on John Adams? If you didn’t get to see it, you can possibly take it out of the public library or find it on Netflix or Amazon. At least watch it to see the state of Washington, D.C., when John and Abigail Adams moved into the White House, and Thomas Jefferson’s mechanical letter copier in action. The six-part series offers a view of these founders that shows how they were enmeshed in the politics of their time, individuals whose ideals were in a state of constant flux, as were the ideals of revolutionaries throughout Europe. I think our founders might have called themselves Humanists before they called themselves “Classic Liberals,” don’t you? They would not have been content to look to the past and say, it was done that way then, and that is good enough for me now. They said just the opposite. Those most like the founding fathers in our society, in the twenty-first century, would not adhere slavishly to “founding priciples” but put those principles to the test, stretch them as far as they will go, revise them, and when they no longer fit, discard them–not cling to them for dear life. The founding fathers chose change they could believe in. Maybe we should do the same.

          • foundingprinciples

            {What did you think of the HBO series on John Adams?}

            Excellent. I liked the scene when Washington was with Abigal, and they referred to slavery. I knew it was not leftist propaganda – almost all PBS “documentaries” are vile propaganda – when Abigail made references to Washington’s having slaves. Washington became visibly embarrassed, so she got the point and dropped it because of the incredible majesty and dignity of the man.

            I have seen a PBS documentary of Washington, and it was vile and disrespectful, distorted and obvious propaganda. I actually shut it off halfway through becuase it sickened me.
            —————————
            {They would not have been content to look to the past and say, it was done that way then, and that is good enough for us now. They said just the opposite.}

            Sorry, you are wrong. The Founders actually maintained traditions to the extent possible. The rejection of a king, for example, will be presented by left-wingers as some kind of absurd “proof” that they were radical, but that is historical revisionism: The Founders were preserving – to the extent possible and practical – the very kind of lives and traditions that were developed and evolved in the colonies at the time.

            Read this carefully, Liberal:

            “Experience must be our only guide. Reason may mislead us.”
            -John Dickinson

            What this is saying is that the Founders should not try to create the ideal, the utopian, the perfect document, but they should rely on time-tested maxims of government, law, and society. They created a government that the people would accept!!!!!!!!!!! The PEOPLE WOULD ACCEPT!!!!! The people do not want radical change! They want what is customary and familiar, and Left-wingers don’t freakin’ get it!!!

            The Founders wwee not creating some Left-winger theoretical, radical, utopian bullshit. The French did, and 40,000 heads rolled into a bucket, many because they did not follow the party line of political correctness. Marx said the French Revolution was the first COMMUNIST REVOLUTION.

            If you want to speak of radicals of that era, have the intellectual respectability to at least restrict your abusive comments to the French Revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • foundingprinciples

            {They would not have been content to look to the past and say, it was done that way then, and that is good enough for us now. They said just the opposite.}

            Sorry, you are wrong. The Founders actually maintained traditions to the extent possible. The rejection of a king, for example, will be presented by left-wingers as some kind of absurd “proof” that they were radical, but that is historical revisionism: The Founders were preserving – to the extent possible and practical – the very kind of lives and traditions that were developed and evolved in the colonies at the time.

            Read this carefully, Liberal:

            “Experience must be our only guide. Reason may mislead us.”
            -John Dickinson

            What this is saying is that the Founders should not try to create the ideal, the utopian, the perfect document, but they should rely on time-tested maxims of government, law, and society. They created a government that the people would accept!!!!!!!!!!! The PEOPLE WOULD ACCEPT!!!!! The people do not want radical change! They want what is customary and familiar, and Left-wingers don’t freakin’ get it!!!

            The Founders wwee not creating some Left-winger theoretical, radical, utopian bullshit. The French did, and 40,000 heads rolled into a bucket, many because they did not follow the party line of political correctness. Marx said the French Revolution was the first COMMUNIST REVOLUTION.

            If you want to speak of radicals of that era, have the intellectual respectability to at least restrict your abusive comments to the French Revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • sigrid28

            I think you’ve got it turned on its head, my friend. Keep trying. Someday you will get it right.

          • idamag

            I am sure he didn’t understand a word you said.

          • Ben G.

            What the hell are you posting here? Are you a fan of Rush Limbaugh?

          • tax payer

            Everyone has the right to comment, so who made you in charge of this Blog?

          • iamproteus

            As you say, “Everyone has the right to comment”…..even idiots such as yourself.

          • tax payer

            Everyone has the right to be an ass and you are showing us it’s true.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Oh! You’re still here? I thought you would have deported yourself by now for the good of the country. Some patriot you are!

          • iamproteus

            Feel better now, Bunky?

          • Lynnette Gentry

            They Have Earned Masters Degrees In Lying And Chaos!! :-(

          • Peoples425

            They are liars still. The tea party traitors have done nothing but skew facts and hinder government proceedings with no reasoning other than imagined ‘facts’ that Liberals are spending more when history has proven that Republican presidents have spent exponentially more than any Democrat. I, by no means, feel devoted to any side, but I hate the fact that this utter stupidity by ‘conservatives’ supporting tea party traitorous behavior. It’s the child-like mentality of “I don’t like what your decision (popular decision mind you) so I’m going to do it my way”.
            I would like ONE instance in which points to fact that is laid out by the tea party.

          • foundingprinciples

            It is not about $$$. It is about the role of government. Liberals strive to CENTRALIZE and are destroying our very foundation. Left-wingers only want the Administrative State, the Nanny Government, the security and warmth of the Collective.

            The patriots of the Tea Party want to restore what made us great.

          • WhutHeSaid

            It’s not about the role of government at all. Tea Bigots wouldn’t know the role of government if it bit them in the ass, and a great many of them are the biggest users of public benefits anywhere.

            Tea Bigots are NOT patriots. They are vile and despicable racists, and that’s all they care about. They want a hateful, bitter racist paradise that never really existed except in their vile and hateful imaginations. Everything they claim to stand for is a lie, because even they know that their filthy beliefs aren’t acceptable.

          • foundingprinciples

            It is about the role of government. That is the entire thing, pal.

          • WhutHeSaid

            No, it’s not. That’s just one of the Tea Party lies used to camouflage the real purpose: bigoted hate.

            All of America witnessed Tea Party candidates who were elected to office in 2010 on the promise of jobs and limited government immediately turn to attacking women, minorities, the poor — in fact, just about anyone who wasn’t an old, Caucasian male. Once elected they abandoned their promises and set about their goal of spreading bigoted hate, and Americans took notice.

            There isn’t one thing — NOT ONE THING — that the Tea Bigots have done that helps Americans. The American public has seen first-hand what these bitter, lying nuts are all about and they are now uniformly despised.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            You Got That Right My Friend They Meaning Both Parties The GOP/Tea Party Has DONE NOTHING TO HELP THIS COUNTRY NOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE SINCE BUSH CRASHED THIS ECONOMY AND PUT THIS COUNTRY IN TWO WARS!!! NOTHING!!!

          • foundingprinciples

            There was no “attack” on the poor, minorities and women. Leftist propaganda’s “DoubleSpeak” turned it into those lies and distortions.

          • ozzy mo

            BOY!! U just can’t get away from that bigot word can you? On every site U are on, u continue to use the same word with nothing to back it up. Are you sure you aren’t a computer program that is making it’s rounds thru cyberspace?

          • jmprint

            It’s about being puppets to the leaders of the Birch Society.

          • foundingprinciples

            Typical comment from the Left: Deflect and divert. Bring up something unrelated to get the person do defend himself, deny what the deceitful Liberal accuses him of. Typical stuff.

          • sigrid28

            Kudos to you, benighted though you be, for not going far beyond “pal,” in speaking down to people with whom you disagree. Do you think it is, perhaps, rude to point a pencil at your reader? Is it a #2 or a #3?

          • WhutHeSaid

            Number 2 appears to be his favorite.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            Do Do = Shit # 2 LOL Yes He’s Full Of It!! LOL :-)

          • foundingprinciples

            {Do you think it is, perhaps, rude to point a pencil at your reader?}

            Liberals do not know anything about very basic economic, or they would know who that is in the photo.

            It is Milton Friedman, and he is using the pencil as a prop to explain an economic principle that Left-wingers refuse to even discuss. It is a principle – and I ain’t kidding – that a middle school student could understand, and has been presented in variations by many non-partisan writers.

            I know you will probably not watch it, even though it is only 2:40; 2 minutes and 40 seconds. If you do, if you are a typical liberal, you will refuse to consider the concepts. But here it is:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Gppi-O3a8

            I honestly believe that this should be presented to every high school student in the nation. It is easy to understand, can be used to get students to write essays and think, and helps understand the very essentials of economics. All in under three minutes!

          • sigrid28

            It is old Milty, after all! The “founder” of Reagan’s trickle down economics, which has done such a great job for the top 1% of this country and hijacked the wages of the rest of us.

          • foundingprinciples

            You displayed your inability to reason. The explanation had nothing to do with “trickle down,” of course. Typical Liberal who throws out dumb talking points and thinks that his tropes actually have some meaning. It is impossible to have an adult exchange with you. Ridiculous.

          • THS_Warrior

            IMO, one of the legitimate roles of any democratic government created by the People is to rid itself of all the anarchists like you who would destroy the People’s government trying to prove an
            impossibility.

          • foundingprinciples

            No anarchist. To a government-loving Leftist, I suppose the enumerated powers in our Constitution looks like anarchy.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            The Tea Party Is Not Patriots Nor Are They Christians What They Are Is A Bunch Of Low Life Racist Greedy Traitors And Terrorists Who Think They Shut Down The Government They Can Live Here For FREE!!!

          • ozzy mo

            WELL, I see whuthisname is making the rounds!! And u still haven’t found any other words other than bigot!! Just a clue–dictionaries are on line now!!

          • jmprint

            That is what are taxes ar meant to do. It’s for the American people, not just the 1%.

          • foundingprinciples

            You mean the group that pays most of our taxes?

          • THS_Warrior

            Unhappy? Thousands of automobiles, trains, boats and airplanes leave the United States every day. Why not go with one of them tomorrow?

          • Lynnette Gentry

            You Tell Him THS Warrior!! MOVE If You Don’t Like It Here!!! LOL

          • ozzy mo

            You can’t give them facts and the truth…It scares them and just makes them scramble to find more MSMBC quotes and talking points

          • foundingprinciples

            I just tried to engage a Left-winger on a very basic concept of economics. I mean it was elementary. The mindless cliches was what I got, and they had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at all!

            It is sad that these people can actually vote.

          • jmprint

            Which tax is that, sales tax, payroll tax, franchise tax or income tax?

          • foundingprinciples

            Income tax. But don’t let the Left-winger distortion about the payroll tax dupe you into believing their lies.

            The SS and Medicare is taken from wages, but these are really a savings account that is directly returned to the person later on. The rest is essentially income, and the successful people in America pay almost all of it. The rest of us should be grateful, instead of listening to Liberals who want more, more, more, more.

          • jmprint

            I am aware of how the tax system works, I pay into all of them.
            Liberals don’t want more, more more, they just want the wealthy to pay their fare share. It is not right that a corporation makes billions of dollars on the sweat of underpaid laborers and funnels the profit overseas to pay less taxes and then cry about it. How is it that Walmart has so many billionaires in their family lineage and don’t even work. You have to remember the commodities, the fruit of our labor are also purchased by the meager dimes that we earn. That’s what makes this nation a great nation. You can’t starve the middle class and poor and expect this nation to continue being great. You should know that.

          • foundingprinciples

            The successful actually pay MORE than their “fair share,” of course. The proportion of taxes they pay, based on their incomes is higher than the rest of the people.

            Our corporations now have the highest tax rate in the world, too. (Except for Dubai…..)

          • ozzy mo

            U can not get thru to these sheep. They have been Obamatized. In the end, when they end up paying more in taxes than they have in the last 20 years. and they have to pay thru their nose to have insurance or get fined, They may wake up. But that is doubtful. since the majority are on the dole in the first place.

          • foundingprinciples

            {They have been Obamatized.}

            LOL. I like that term and hope to remember it.

            They will live to regret this.

          • Mark Forsyth

            They are missing the mark.

          • sigrid28

            Sadly, we may all see that the one truth they hold to be self-evident–and openly acknowledged to a person before and during the shutdown–is the shared belief that the federal government should be destroyed.

          • ozzy mo

            As bad as it gotten in the last 5 years… Not a bad idea!!

          • THS_Warrior

            You are an anarcist who deserves what anarchy always brings.

          • ozzy mo

            Give it to me, if u can!! I am a patriot who has fought in Iraq on 4 separate combat tours. I love my country and don’t like seeing her destroyed from within. Now if that makes me an anarchist…then so be it…I say u are an idiot with no concept of reality and of what is happening to your country….NEXT!!

          • THS_Warrior

            ” I am a patriot who has fought in Iraq on 4 separate combat tours.”
            No wonder we lost the war in Iraq.

          • ozzy mo

            Let me guess..You are a basement warrior, having nightly combat wars with the zombies and car thieves on your X-BOX

          • ozzy mo

            And I didn’t say that I would advocate such a thing…Just that I am very disappointed in our government at this time.

          • ozzy mo

            That is what democracy is all about…you don’t have to go along with the democrats if you know they are destroying our nation!! They were voted in to stop them!! If you don’t want them in office have your democrat friends try to vote them out!! Just like we will do to your democrats in the senate and congress in 2014

          • asynchronous

            You really don’t know the history of the Tea Party – so let me give you a clue,…

            David & Charles Koch = Tea Party

            ,..and NO they are not grass roots.

          • kmkirb

            Spot on darling, thank you asynchronous. Koch Bros., Heritage Foundation, Freedom Works, Americans For Prosperity, Groundswell (SCOTUS Thomas’s wife Ginny started that group back in March 2013).

            And yet these dumb ass fools that believe everything the TP says, but yet denies the well known fact that the Heritage Foundation was the brainchild behind the ACA during the Nixon years.

          • foundingprinciples

            It is grass roots. Sure, the Koch family donates. If you have millions in income, would you donate some money someplace? It is a right, and you think that just because some people do not cater to the Liberal ideology, the Leftist dogma, the destructive Socialist agenda, they are to be criticized. The Ford Foundation contributes to Left-winger causes. Look at the Nazi accomplice, Georgie Soros, the wonder child billionaire – Let’s hear about him, pal. No, no,no. Because he contributes to causes you and your Liberal Comrades deem “worthy,” of course.

            But the Tea Party is grass roots. It is not a Left-winger type of centrally organized “Party,” of course. Heck, anyone can start a Tea Party group and register.

            You don’t know shit about it, but are just vomiting up the garbage you hear on MSNBC.

          • asynchronous

            No – it really isn’t Grass Roots!

            The Tea Party was conceived of and Implemented by David & Charles Koch through various front organizations.

            It is amazing what you can learn if you spend the time to research – it is amazing how ignorant you become if you listen to News Corp.

          • foundingprinciples

            Look up the history of the Tea Party. Nobody even knows how it started for sure! It was a spontaneous grassroots movement, sprouting up all over the country.

            You are parroting MSNBC. Try thinking.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Oh yes we do know: The vile and despicable remnants of the KKK could not bear the election of America’s first black President. That’s the motivation and everyone knows it no matter how many whoppers you tell about it.

          • jmprint

            Bull shit…it started when President Obama announced he was running for president and wanted to see a vsion of every American citizen having the opportunity to be insured. There were those that said no way, “Why do our taxes we have to pay for their insurance” they cry! The number one priority was to keep this president at a one year term. That’s the grass roots… I have spoken to many of them and all they complain about is what the tea party tries to use to meet their goal. And the skin head and KKK took this opporunity, along with the Birch Society to jump on the band wagon. YES their is a lot of unecessary expenses, but you don’t see the Tea Party touching non of that waste, they stick to the aparts that help the most.
            Why does Mansanto and Oil companies run the world, because the elite make money and it is ALL about money.

          • foundingprinciples

            No, the #1 priority was to uphold our Founding principles and the Constitution. Left-wingers try to shut down discussion and disagreement by screaming some variation of ‘RACIST!” Total bullshit.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            You make is sound like we need weed killer!!! Perhaps if you stopped watching Faux News and reading Drudge Report and similar print media you would be able to visit the real America and see that we do not fit into the Niche you and your Republican Party wants everyone to be in. In addition, the Tea Party has been corrupted by the likes of the Koch Brothers who buy their Politicians. So the Tea Party is not purists but rather property of the Koch Brothers, Heritage Foundation etc.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            The Koch Brothers Pimping Big Time!! And The GOP/Tea Party Are The Whores!!

          • asynchronous

            ,….and NO, I don’t vomit garbage from MSNBC.

          • idamag

            It is hard for foundling to understand that we don’t need to have commentators tell us what to think, that we can research without wingnuts.

          • asynchronous

            ,…and NO George Soros is not a Nazi accomplice

            ,..”Liberal ideology, the Leftist dogma, the destructive Socialist agenda”,…Oh My!,…how easily you are manipulated, how truly ignorant you all have become.

          • foundingprinciples

            No, the Tea Party is grass roots. I joined a branch in little Rutland, Vermont, for example, and another in Florida. I can assure you that we do not get any directives from the Koch family, buddy.

          • nirodha

            You don’t think that you get any directives, because the Koch brothers funnel their money through many front organizations. These organizations, with their patriotic-sounding names,easily manipulate blind fools who desperately want to feel important.

          • jmprint

            And you honestly think the Kock brothers are interested in the middle class and the poor, the 47%.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            HELL NO!! What They Are Interested In Is A NEW WORLD ORDER The Koch Brothers Are Just Some Hitler Loving Greedy Assholes!!! Both Of Those Old Farts Should Slow Burn In Hell!! The Sooner The Better And Take The Tea Party, John Birch And David Duke With Them!!! :-( And Since The GOP Want To Be The Koch Brothers Whores They Can Go To!!!

          • foundingprinciples

            So, the Liberal decides that the Koch brothers do not care about the ones that the Liberal cares about, so everyone should automatically reject any group that the Koch brothers support reflexively because – in the mind of the Leftist – the Koch brothers are evil capitalists, just like Rachel Maddow told him.

          • jmprint

            No it has nothing to do with what Rachel Maddow says. It’s about not allowing you and the Kock brothers to change our world to where the middle class and poor become servants to the 1%. We are all equal. This is not England. If the Kock brothers were so concerned they would be pushing for minimum wage to be raised and not stalled.

          • foundingprinciples

            Minimum wage is bad for everyone, especially the poor. It raises unemployment, for one thing.

          • jmprint

            It is only bad when it is suppressed, just like our voters rights. The minimum wage should have been raised with inflation, just like congress receives a raise every year. But instead they caused a huge gap between the middle class, poor and the 1%. And now the Kock brother want to do away with it, like I said we do not condone being servants to the 1%.

          • idamag

            Being a student of why a country followed a madman into despicable acts against humanity, the methodology of the Koch brothers and the tea party is scary.

          • nirodha

            Charles and David Koch’s father was the co-founder of the John Birch Society. Back in 1980, when David Koch ran as the vice-presidential candidate on the Libertarian Party ticket, he endorsed a platform that called for abolishing Social Security, all forms of social welfare and the minimum wage laws. About ten years ago, David Koch provided start-up money for Americans for Prosperity, which in turn organized the Tea Party movement. More recently, the Koch brothers, through another of their front organizations, Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce, donated $200 million in an attempt to defund Obamacare. Previously, during the 2012 election cycle, the Koch brothers spent another $200 million funding efforts to defeat Obama’s reelection bid. In answer to your question, if I had billions of dollars, I would donate money…to causes that help the less fortunate, not in efforts to try to eliminate them.

          • foundingprinciples

            No, the origins of the Tea Party are really in question. You are wrong.

          • nirodha

            Sorry, you’re the one who is incorrect. Read the National Journal for the facts.

          • idamag

            And, their father was one of the founders of the John Birch Society which spent its years telling people there were communists in their basement and Black agitators in their washers.

          • Lynnette Gentry

            Boogie Men And Muslims Everywhere!! LOL

      • midway54

        The voters in Florida who showed up at polling places and found a closed sign with advice that the place was now at a new, far-removed location, those rolling, recorded fone calls notifying Floridians that the voting date had been extended because of an emergency situation, and those streets having a voting place on them that were barricaded closed by police who were present indicating an accident or crime scene of course were not efforts to stop the voting in those neighborhoods. Just coincidences as you would see it.

        By the way, whose founding and whose principles are embraced in your screen name? l assume, but cannot be sure that you even know that at the founding of this Country voting was limited only to male property owners so that those who owned no real property and no women, including the founders’ wives,could vote. Why?(A) Because those who were ineligible had no real stake in the Country and those property owners did have a stake and entitled to governing it; and (B) these having been granted the voting right were greatly outnumbered by those who could not vote.

        That outnumbered consideration is true today—right this minute— and like the founders, the current crop doesn’t want that kind of situation. It was voter suppression then and it is voter suppression now because the plutocrats in the 18th through 21st century moved then and are moving now to do something about it. Another of their efforts in solving this problem is to buy the politicians and own the institutions of this Country,and hammer dissent as treasonous. Worse, today’s dupes, yahoos, and assorted morons are waving the flag and buying into it.

        • Allan Richardson

          There are Republicans already floating the idea of bringing back the property requirement to vote. Depending on how such laws are written, it could be possible for your bank to eliminate your right to vote on laws regulating usury by foreclosing on your home just before Election Day. Or would “property” require a PAID UP mortgage before you could vote? Or ONLY a paid off farm? Or net worth of one million dollars? Or something else that would restrict voting to 5 percent of the current voting rolls?

          They are also talking about “reducing corruption” by bringing back state legislature appointment of US Senators! As if a group of colluding legislatures could pick a Senator more honestly than the VOTERS!

          • THS_Warrior

            False bravado is toothless and talk is cheap, just like all the yahoos who support the tea party. None of these grand plans to turn back America’s clock to the 1700s will survive very long in light of the Constitution and its enforcement by the SCOTUS, which already showed its prograssive hand by defeating all the conservative states’ federal lawsuits clearly aimed at knocking out Obamacare on constitutional grounds.
            The fundemental issues underlying all this rebellion noise are the same fundemental issues that caused fearless successful “progressive rebels” to rise up against a conservative English
            Crown in 1776, and the same fundemental issues that caused
            crazy unsuccesful “conservative rebels” to dare to challenge a progressive president and the United States of America only 85 years later: control and taxation.
            Thses fundemental issues are inextricably tied together- here on the earth. As long as earth-bound humans believe there is no control without taxation and no taxation without control we
            will never find real Peace.

          • Mark Forsyth

            I wouldn’t give the Scotus too much credence,don’t forget that they passed that pos called Citizens United.An example of fascism if there ever was one.

          • sigrid28

            And they just gutted the Voting Rights Act. One can only hope that President Obama is able to replace one or two of these activist U.S. Supreme Court judges during the next three years.

          • THS_Warrior

            My sources tell me that at least two problems will be replaced before President Obama leaves office; but the timing depends on the results of the 2014 elections.

          • THS_Warrior

            If you were an experienced civil rights attorney who personally has appeared before the SCOTUS on two ocassions and been “on the briefs” in five other important cases you would perhaps understand how the SCOTUS did what it did in Citizens United.
            Declaring some corporations “equal” to humans for purposes of the nation’s election laws merely invites Congress to amend and include these “special” corporations in the several constitutional laws limiting the amount of money that humans can contribute to federal campaigns–and the amount that candidates can accept.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Frankly I’m amazed at your over simplification of the C.U. ruling.One does not need to be “an experienced civil rights attorney” in order to tell the difference between shit and shinola.I have had enough experience dealing with attorneys who are merchants of both and try to make them palatable.They aren’t lawyers,they are buffoons better suited to the circus.
            I am familiar as I need to be to know that C.U. opens the door to corporate fascism and that the unreasonable and ridiculous sums of dark and unidentified money flowing into our political system and government has the unrestrained ability to corrupt and corrode every office and every person therein.One of the ultimate results is to disenfranchise the American Citizen from effective participation in the government which is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
            The move to amend is growing!

          • THS_Warrior

            Listen to the angry left wing liberal Mark Forseyth attacking me, one his best weapons against right wing conservitives: “Frankly I’m amazed at your over simplification of the C.U. ruling.”
            Response: Frankly I do not care what you think. You are a stone-brained left wing liberal clown who acts just as badly as the stone-brained right wing conservative clowns act.
            MF coming at me again: “One does not need to be “an experienced civil rights attorney” in order to tell the difference between shit and shinola.”
            Response: FYI, We are NOT talking about “shit” or “shinola.”
            Those smelly subjects are studied down at your lower level, not mine. We are talking about very complex matters of constututional law that neither uneducated liberal clowns nor uneducated conservative clowns can understand.
            MF still coming at me: “I have had enough experience dealing with attorneys who are merchants of both and try to make them palatable.They aren’t lawyers,they are buffoons better suited to the circus.”
            Response: Well guess what? I have had MORE than enough LEGAL experience dealing with uneducated left wing liberal clowns and uneducated right wing conservative clowns to know that neither group is capable of compromise among themselves about circus matters like “shit and shinola” let along smart enough to compromise on matters important to the future of America.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Well it certainly took you long enough to respond,but what a waste it is to merely try to pick apart certain statements I made instead of addressing the shitty Citizens United ruling.If you were truly educated then not only would you know that I’m not angry but you would also know that I don’t begin to be defined or limited by what a dipshit like you has to say about me.In fact your statements reveal that you don’t know much about liberals and conservatives any more than you know about myself or anyone else on this page.You spew your mental masturbation with a load a blah,blah,blobbity,blah,significant of nothing.
            Now to get down to the nuts and bolts of the matter.
            Citizens United is a misbegotten pile of shit and those who defend it are goddamned stinking fucking fascists!!!

          • THS_Warrior

            Warning to the angry liberal Mark Forsyth: Unless you grow up right now and find some way to zip up your your filthy liberal lip this will be the final response you ever get from me. It is way bad enough to have to listen to all the filth and unprofessional garbage being posted by angry uneducated conservatives who will always have their ignorance as an excuse to spew filth and childish fifth grade insults when confronted with superior minds.
            You are giving progressives and liberals a bad image. Stop.

          • THS_Warrior

            Fundemental rules of the universe all angry liberals must learn if they are to survive the coming political re-alignment:
            1. Neither anger nor impatience are virtues anywhere on earth.
            2. Leaders who can keep their cool under fire become famous.
            3. Sometimes retreating an inch is better than gaining a mile.
            4. Every human problem always contains valuable gifts.
            5. There has never been a legislative enactment that is all bad.
            6. Every “bad bill” contains the solution to other problems.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Would you like some cheese with your pathetic little whine? I knew you wouldn’t respond with anything of substance because you have nothing.You are merely one of several stinking,dirty,filthy slimy,posing little trolls who post on the Memo pretending to be something that you are not.You insist on my anger because you have no other platform for a discussion.Sadly,you’re not smart enough to realize that you haven’t got the stuff to make me angry.But to show you that I am not completely heartless I will help you to stop wasting your time as long as you hold strong to your threat of a final response.Oh how I love to be threatened with a good time.
            So here we go now.Are you ready? T H S stands for Thoroughly Helpless Shit.Citizens United is a pile of fascist shit and you are a pile of shit also.So now kindly take your worthless shitty ass off this page and go Fuck Yourself.

          • midway54

            I had not heard about the content of your first paragraph, but had heard about that in your second paragraph. It is getting to the point where nothing coming out of the right wing crazies should surprise anyone.

        • idamag

          The biggest lie that he tells is his avatar.

      • terry b

        Use your mind. It is all voter suppression. There is no visible sign of voter fraud. Logic and common sense that this is voter suppression. The proof is in the fact that only one political party is creating these horrible laws. Show me a little intelligence and back me up with something more than low level drivel trying to squelch the reality that this is nothing but voter suppression against minorities, the poor and anyone who cannot afford an ID.

      • RobertCHastings

        So Judge Posner AND Cynthia Tucker are in error, is that the point you are making? If you are claiming (this I assume based upon your moniker)that the Founding Fathers intentionally limited the franchise, why have there been at least two Constitutional Amendments doing nothing but expanding the franchise. During the period in which this country was waiting to ratify the constitution the franchise was expanded, to include not only the landed gentry, but skilled craftsmen, as well. We are no longer inhabiting a world in which the ONLY democracy is the US, and in which the only people allowed to vote are wealthy white men!

      • Peoples425

        You’re assertion is moronic at best. Please take some time to educate yourself.

        • foundingprinciples

          There is no voter suppression. It is a Left-winger myth.

          • THS_Warrior

            The conservative assertion that “there is no voter suppression” is a damned lie that will be exposed here, now, and later in hell.
            The only difference is that conservatives will admit it– in hell.

          • foundingprinciples

            There is not any suppression. The basic assumption is false. 2 assumptions, in fact:

            1. That the kind of people who have no driver’s license, no passport, no birth certificate, no SS identification, no bank accounts – are the kind of people who DESPERATELY want to vote. What a freakin’ joke that is. (And virtually any form of ID will do, including welfare checks and registration for FOOD STAMPS.)

            2. That the Left-wingers somehow know that all of these incredibly DESPERATE people are going to vote for Leftist politicians.

          • kmkirb

            Absolutely correct. There is no voter suppression going on. It’s just a liberal myth which all of you left wingers insist on putting upon me while I’m just trying to show the rest of you the error of my ways.

            They just want to keep on calling me a right wing believer who lies, even though they have no proof to back up their liberal claims.

            What’s a poor deluded, mentally challenged, truth denying right winger like me to do? Oh poor pitiful me.

            1) “North Carolina’s Student Voting Battle Is Not Over” (9/05/2013)

            “Apparently, it wasn’t enough for the state of North Carolina to pass the most far-reaching and extreme voting law in the nation. The radical rollback of voting rights, signed into law by Governor Pat McCrory a few weeks ago, cuts a week from early voting, eliminates same-day voter registration, creates a strict photo ID requirement (which specifically prohibits college IDs from being accepted for voting), bans the pre-registration of 16- and 17-year-olds, and expands the ability to challenge voters, among other sweeping provisions. Collectively, these changes make it harder to vote for people of color, students, seniors, people with disabilities and low-income North Carolinians. Yet the state did not stop there.

            Now two county election boards have employed a top-down approach to take over the voting process at the local level. They are specifically taking aim at student voting.”

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/penda-d-hair/north-carolinas-student-voting-battle_b_3868345.html

            2) “Voter Intimidation”
            http://projectvote.org/voter-intimidation.html

            3) Voter Caging and Suppression Plot Exposed in Wisconsin (2010)… http://www.savewisconsinsvote2010.org/

            Also contains documents detailing voter suppression plan, & with transcript & audio of the Tea Party meeting.

            4) “Judge slams Ohio GOP Sec. State for vote suppression” (2012)http://americablog.com/2012/11/judge-slams-ohios-gop-sec-state-for-suppressing-votes.html

            5) “Fighting Voter Suppression in Wisconsin” (11/06/2012)
            http://imagine2050.newcomm.org/2012/11/06/fighting_voter_suppression/

            6) “Voter ID Laws are Voter Suppression” (3/14/2013)
            http://imagine2050.newcomm.org/2012/03/14/voter-id-laws-are-voter-suppression/

            7) “Judge rules Wisconsin’s voter ID law unconstitutional” (3/12/2013)
            http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/ruling-expected-monday-in-second-voter-id-case-c44hifo-142307425.html

            8) All the links on voter suppression from the Brennan Center in Google search… https://www.google.com/search?q=brennan+center+on+voter+suppression&oq=brennan+center+on+voter+suppression&aqs=chrome..69i57.13229j0j1&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

          • THS_Warrior

            An attorney friend of mine said this new North Carolina assault on civil liberties is called “The Civil Rights Attorneys’ Relief Act of 2013″ because the State and each county sued will have to pay attorney fees and costs to every winner. Cha-ching!!

          • kmkirb

            Excellent news. I knew something good had to come out of something horrible. And that’s also why I changed my commenting stance to the flaming troll floundering principles. He no longer responds to my remarks, BWHAhahahaha. Happy dance time, & on the ceiling no less :)

          • THS_Warrior

            Great news and good for you!!
            I can feel myself getting right next to fed up with Mr. floundering principals too. Arguing with some intellectually dishonest people is painful enough, even when making money doing it; but it goes beyond tolerable on Internet sites accessible to crazy liars.

          • kmkirb

            It is way beyond intolerable THS_Warrior, & why I make constant use of that little flag every time no matter what ‘floundering’ posts, which I refer to as IT, but IT’s not been shut down again yet. IT has had IT’s Disqus account shut down several times, always to come back with a new name. I had the list of many of the names IT has posted under, but I can’t seem to find it at present :(

            I passed “getting right next to fed up” the first time I ran into IT. 3 weeks ago yesterday I was reading an article & then I went skimming through the comments. At first I wasn’t going to respond as I didn’t want the painful grief frankly from having to deal with IT’s drivel, but after 2 hours of seeing this blatant lying & hatred posted over & over again from IT, the fury got the better of me.

            I posted back with a very looong post with resources & links to back up every single thing I stated. So IT posts back everything I stated was a lie, that my links & resources were lies, & I was nothing but a hateful liberal. I never even claimed to lean one way or the other, but because he wanted to deny facts & truth he claims I’m a liberal. Well, if that’s what it takes so be it, as I couldn’t be more proud then. And how anyone can claim that links & resources are lies that don’t come from any particular leaning sites, is just mind boggling. And even more mind boggling is that a few of them I posted actually came from very conservative sites, like The Examiner for instance.

            So IT starts stalking me, going to articles to comment & down vote me on posts I had made 3 & 4 months prior. I had never paid attention to the Disqus profile before. After putting up with IT for almost a week, that’s when I went looking into my profile, & made it private. Unfortunately, I now can’t keep up with some of those people who were following me & vice versa. Instead I had to sign up for the alerts, & now my inbox blows up everyday.

            Something I did find out though that’s useful. Some people are signing up under others names & using their avatars, so you have to pay attention as to whom is who. For instance, over on Media Matters For America [MMfa], (which is where I first ran into IT on an article about Bill O’Reilly making some disgusting remark about the ACA & people in crack houses shouldn’t get care, I don’t remember exactly, sorry), there is one smart cookie called Oedipus Wrecked, but going through the comments I noticed some were great, & some just didn’t jive. It’s like they went from being honest, to a lying TP’er.

            At first I was thinking split personality?! That’s when I started pointing to the profile. The real OW had his profile open where you can follow & they had over 10000+ comments. The fake one only had a few hundred comments & had their profile blocked. So I got a lesson that day, especially after getting some help from a few of the other posters, one in particular was Tammy (2nd name I don’t remember) Hinton.

            Also, over on that MMfa, IT has a parody that signed up with IT’s real name, which is James B. Connelly PhD. That dude is a hoot, & what finally gave me the idea to try & do the same thing. It’s working as el creepo no longer responds to me :)

          • THS_Warrior

            One of the ways I combat Internet trolls and other blatent liars is to mention their screen names, handles or any other identifying information in my response to them over and over, so that any government agency or private snoop dog interested in tracking them for any trason is better-able to do so over time. Thanks to modern technology tracking capabilities there is no such thing as being “anonomous” in the Cloud.
            If what you say is true, i.e., that some conservative jerk named “James B. Connelly PhD” is the same as the despicable Internet troll commenting here as “foundingprinciples” then you can be sure that the names foundingprinciples and James B Connelly PhD are linked together in some sophisticated electronic data mining and data collection program operating on more than one super computer on earth. And if these two identities were not linked before I posted this comment containing both names twice, they will be linked together very shortly.

          • kmkirb

            Excellent work, thank you. And I gave you the wrong name for one of the people that helped me over on MMfa. It is not Tammy Hinton, it is Tammy Minton Haley.

            If you’d like to check out the entire thread, which is extremely long, here is the link… http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/09/27/oreilly-uninsured-must-get-out-of-the-crack-hou/196138

            That thread has the people posting about the other names Floundering had in the past that were shut down, as well as the parody dude going by floundering’s real name.

            I saw where you asked him about his name & he responded saying it is gossip. This creep can lie, but he can’t escape from his distorted twists of truth & changing stances. And here’s the link to the book he wrote claiming that liberals are a disease… http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Liberal-Jungle-Americans/dp/1475105436

          • idamag

            You mean it actually has a Phd. I find that hard to believe. Who did its homework for it.

          • kmkirb

            I find it also very hard to believe idamag. And teehee, I just had to copy this little back & forth from day before yesterday, & so now I’m spreading it far & wide. You’ll understand why after IT came back with IT’s 2nd reply to nirodha. BWHAHAHAhahahahaha I say. Life can be a bitch when one [IT] constantly slanders & stings others with IT’s stink. Superior at slime is all IT is!!

            nirodha asked IT where IT went to grad school.

            1) IT came back with, “You are joking with such a question, right?”

            nirodha came back with “No, not at all. Where did you go to grad school?” Posted 6:27 a.m., Monday Oct. 28

            2) So IT replies, “I do not tell Liberals personal information. I have always – repeat, ALWAYS – regretted it.”

            nirodha replies, “First of all, I’m not a liberal. I, too have lived abroad and was curious, that’s all.” Posted 6:29 a.m., Monday Oct. 28

            3) ‘foundingprinciples’
            “My mistake: This forum is infested with Left-wingers.

            I lived in Vienna and Japan. I am an American but also have European citizenship. Worked in Bogota, too, on the local economy in all of the places mentioned. Where did you live
            abroad? Posted 8:09 a.m., Monday Oct. 28″

            Have fun with it idamag. There’s always a way to skin an ugly parasite.

          • THS_Warrior

            Nothing gives me more pleasure in my life as a trial attorney than exposing blatent liars on the witness stand by asking them stunning questions in front of the jury. Watching them “flounder”
            around attempting to answer the stunning questions is so much fun. Some adverse witnesses who are accomplished liars will try to evade the force of a stunning question by asking me some silly unrelated question like professor James B Connelly PhD just did. When in trial I remind them that they are not allowed to ask me any questions; and then I ask the judge to instruct them to answer my questions.
            If an adverse witness just sits there in stunned silence glaring at me, I will look over at the smiling jury and announce: “No further questions your Honor.”

          • Gidawdah

            Doc Warning : “WannaTalk” & “foundingprinciples”
            (troll-goad-baiter extraordinaire)

            AKA: “Rightonthemark” & “HereToSpeak”, “Vouchsafe” (‘Doc’James Connelly), is here solely to disrupt. That fact should be made public on this forum, as he wrote about his real intentions, below, so other posters, old and new… will know why he is really here:
            ———-
            QUOTE:
            “I often go on the forums of the “Progressives” and stir things up. Places like Alternet and such. I think we can disrupt them, undermine their confidence and such by going en masse to their sites and dropping a bomb or two. If anyone is interested in this, please let me know. It can be fun, too. As Ann Coulter said, “Taunting Liberals is like having a pet that does tricks.”——-Dr. Connelly
            •Reply•Share › TwitterFacebookLink
            [ AKA : "WannaTalk"]
            ———–
            His websites:
            http://patriotaction.net/profile/JamesBConnelly

            http://www.liberaljungle.com/author.html

            “doc” Connelly Interview: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o

            This is ALL other posters need to know.
            For someone who ardently adovcates for “personal responsibiliy & standing by one’s word”, he wont even own his own words about why he is really on this forum. The Coulter tactic at the end of his comment is particularly revealing, devious, hateful, childish, petulant, and above all cowardly.
            He is a pathetic feckless fraud who has been caught sock-puppeting on other forums.

            Now Doc will say, ” obsessive!”, “you are angry” squeal, attack, and LIE some more.

          • THS_Warrior

            Atta boy Mr. gidawdah: The best way to slow down the conservative Internet trolls who are here only to disrupt conversations and spread untruths about the Obama Administration is to mention their screen names in every reply you publish. The web crawlers and Internet bots used by the DNC and other savvy progressive organizations are constantly searching these public fora, gathering data and connecting the dots, then locating all who do harm to the spread of Truth.

          • idamag

            It (I like that) is like an obnoxious child who wants to be the center of attention and interrupts conversations with drivel. I don’t read any of the its posts. That is the way I treat brats.

          • kmkirb

            Thank you. IT was the most appropriate thing I could describe IT as. IT thinks IT is superior to all other humans. Always interjects itself in other peoples posts, stalks people around the web, & thinks life is so hunky dory because IT planned IT’s so called wonderful life so well.

            As I said to IT once, never say never. There are no guarantees in life, as anything can happen to anyone in this here mortal life. IT thinks IT will never have to request help from anyone. That’s what you call a really delusional, non-realistic attitude. That would make IT better than God, but IT is worse than a demon.

          • Gidawdah

            some of us know what ” Doc Connelly ” is about :
            Doc Warning : “WannaTalk” & “foundingprinciples”
            (troll-goad-baiter extraordinaire)

            AKA: “Rightonthemark” & “HereToSpeak”, “Vouchsafe” (‘Doc’James Connelly), is here solely to disrupt. That fact should be made public on this forum, as he wrote about his real intentions, below, so other posters, old and new… will know why he is really here:
            ———-
            QUOTE:
            “I often go on the forums of the “Progressives” and stir things up. Places like Alternet and such. I think we can disrupt them, undermine their confidence and such by going en masse to their sites and dropping a bomb or two. If anyone is interested in this, please let me know. It can be fun, too. As Ann Coulter said, “Taunting Liberals is like having a pet that does tricks.”——-Dr. Connelly
            •Reply•Share › TwitterFacebookLink
            [ AKA : "WannaTalk"]
            ———–
            His websites:
            http://patriotaction.net/profile/JamesBConnelly

            http://www.liberaljungle.com/author.html

            “doc” Connelly Interview: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o

            This is ALL other posters need to know.
            For someone who ardently adovcates for “personal responsibiliy & standing by one’s word”, he wont even own his own words about why he is really on this forum. The Coulter tactic at the end of his comment is particularly revealing, devious, hateful, childish, petulant, and above all cowardly.
            He is a pathetic feckless fraud who has been caught sock-puppeting on other forums.

            Now Doc will say, ” obsessive!”, “you are angry” squeal, attack, and LIE some more.

          • midway54

            …and so is the proposition that the earth is not flat but an oblate spheroid?

          • jmprint

            You keep repeating yourself – with NO merit. What is the definition of that?

      • idamag

        Go to Jon Stewart, Oct 23 and watch the interview with a Republcian politician from North Carolina. The politician resigned the next day. Get your information from the horse’s mouth, not faux news.

        • Lynnette Gentry

          Stop Wasting Your Time My Friend You Know They Don’t Deal With Facts!!!! They Love To Make Shit Up And Tell Lies!! That’s Those Masters Degrees At Work Big Time!! Lying And Chaos Is They Motto!!

      • TomCamfield

        Voter suppression is real, and it is practiced only by Republicans seeking the sort of edge that is directly contrary to the Constitution.

        You dish out the same old BS about founding fathers as you interpret their motivation. There are many things we should consider these many years later–including the lifestyle of the individual forefathers, the sensibility of the interpretation of the Constitution in terms of the reality of these many years later . . . and the actual content of the entire Constitution.

        It seems to me sometimes that the presently-conservative Supreme Court, supposedly charged with upholding the Constitution, tends to rule contrary to it.

        You, personally, seem intent on having the last word, no matter what.
        Not gonna happen. And the same goes for the tea party.

        • foundingprinciples

          {the same old BS about founding fathers as you interpret their motivation.}

          The Original Understanding (not “Intent”) is what is the key, not Left-winger judicial activism that distorts, undermines and perverts the Constitution.

          • TomCamfield

            You have the usual GOP blind-in-one-eye and deaf-in-one-ear evaluation of things. It’s jarringly off-key to refer to “left-winger judicial activism” when looking at some of the more-recent decisions of our Supreme Court, which can and does pervert the Constitution without fear of retaliation in any form.

          • foundingprinciples

            Any kind of judicial activism is wrong, of course, but it is almost always Left-winger activism. Take the famous one like Roe v. Wade. The court got it right in Bowers v. Hardwick and messed it up with Lawrence v. Texas with Left-winger activism there.

    • elw

      Well they invited it in, now they will have to deal with it. I believe they will be stopped, but by the voters who are steadily turning on them.

      • Lynnette Gentry

        Exactly elw!! The GOP Was Highjacked With Welcoming And Open Arms!! They Pretend They Don’t Like Them, But You Don’t See Them Getting Them Out Of Their Party Nor Really Stepping Away From Them!!! DUH!!

        • elw

          Maybe not today or tomorrow, but in the long run they GOP will pay for it.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake
          • WhutHeSaid

            Hey — stop twerking to that video!

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake

            Stop jerking your winkie….

          • WhutHeSaid

            Winkie? Oh…you’re one of those kinda guys. Well, for you twerking just wasn’t working. I thought you might want to know.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake

            Ibne Yahudi Kapa çeneni…

          • WhutHeSaid

            You really ARE rather fond of ‘winkies’, yes? Well, I’m not into all that but you can always surf to you favorite gay dating site. It’s none of my business what you enjoy doing with your orifices, so knock yourself out, Tinkerbell.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake

            Bok yemek.

          • WhutHeSaid

            So you’re into scatology too? Figures.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake

            İbne Yahudi…

          • nirodha

            Yatha aham tatha été
            Yatha été tatha ahan

          • Allan Richardson

            Translation?

          • nirodha

            I put this up there because of the nonsense posted by Winston Blake. This is from a Buddhist text and translates as
            As I am, so are others
            As others are, so am I.

          • WhutHeSaid

            You have a rash there? Well, let that be a lesson to you — some things are an affront to nature. You just had to learn the hard way.

          • WhutHeSaid

            You know, twerking to videos like this is bad enough, but what you people do to goats over there is unforgivable.

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake

            Sen Yahudi domuz… Ben İran nükleer silahları umut seni öldürmek…

          • WhutHeSaid

            Well, I don’t really think that it will fit — but perhaps the goat won’t mind. If you ask nicely, that is.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Really? Well, I must say that I’ve never heard of anyone else doing that with a pig. I can understand the goats because they have personalities, and once in a while you find a cute one. Be careful, dude — some of those pigs can be, well, real pigs!

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjjOrDq7ds Winston Blake
        • idamag

          My Representative voted to end the shutdown and was immediately attacked by the tea party. Hr ran a full page ad, catering to the tea party. The tea party has made sniveling cowards out of a lot of our legislators.

        • plc97477

          To a large extent that is cus that is all the gotp has left.

  • tax payer

    One intent: Stop Fraud.

    • bandrulz

      If that were really the intent, then those laws would be accompanied by an all-out effort to help everyone obtain the documentation they need.

      • John Pigg

        Indiana actually has extensive services to aid those in getting proper documentation.

        This post should not be misconstrued as a backing of TaxPayer..

        • THS_Warrior

          Indiana must be a Blue State.

          • John Pigg

            It generally leans conservative but has a history of middle of the road politics.

            But when this passed in 05 it wasn’t a contentious issue and most the voting public was for it.

            For me though, I don’t like seeing Indiana used as a justification of what Texas and GA want to be doing. Which in my opinion is far different than strengthening suffrage.

          • THS_Warrior

            IMO, if there was a real problem with Indiana’s voting laws the Justice Department would have fixed it by now. Watch what they do shortly in the latest case of election law abuse enacted by the racists in North Carolina.

          • John Pigg

            Well thank you, that’s all I have been saying.

            I really hope they roll it back in PA, TX, and NC.

    • WhutHeSaid

      Stop lying. Everyone knows the real reason. Be a model bigot and honestly admit that the intent is to cheat. If your bigoted views are worth believing in then they are worth admitting to. Put on you big boy (or girl, as the case may be) pants.

      • foundingprinciples

        The Pew Research Center (not a “right-winger” source, and even reported by the NY Times), showed 24,000,000 voter registrations are inaccurate (1 of 8). There are almost 2,000,000 dead people on the rolls, and 3,000,000 people registered in 2 states.

        http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/uploadedFiles/Pew_Upgrading_Voter_Registration.pdf

        The dead people didn’t complain that someone voted in their name, so there is no fraud. And since people who vote in one state but are registered in another would not know someone used their name and then report it, there is no fraud….

        Fraud IS being found despite the best attempts by Left-wingers to deny it. Check these:

        http://www.truethevote.org/news/new-yorkers-were-paid-to-commit-vote-fraud

        http://www.truethevote.org/news/west-verginia-sherrif-clerk-snared-in-vote-fraud-investigation

        http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/295431/why-we-need-voter-id-laws-now-john-fund

        In this, 12,000 illegals registered to vote and 5,000 voted. Nope, no fraud in America! Maybe just a couple that don’t impact elections:

        http://thehill.com/homenews/house/153079-gop-says-5000-non-citizens-voting-in-colorado-a-wake-up-call-for-states

        These are the incontrovertible facts:

        1. Unless we have a good system of voter ID, there is virtually no security on most elections.

        2. Our voter databases are largely inaccurate.

        3. We know that fraud is occurring.

        The Left-wingers cannot show DOCUMENTED cases of people being disenfranchised because they have no photo ID.

        • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

          Article written in January 2012 http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote

          “A new nationwide analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud cases since 2000 shows that while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent.”

          “In an exhaustive public records search, reporters from the investigative reporting project “News21″ sent thousands of requests to elections officers in all 50 states, asking for every case of fraudulent activity including registration fraud, absentee ballot fraud, vote buying, false election counts, campaign fraud, casting an ineligible vote, voting twice, voter impersonation fraud and intimidation.”

          “Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the United States during that time, those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters.”

          “10 cases. 10 cases of in-person voter impersonation that might have been deterred by polling place Photo ID restrictions — restrictions which, according to study after study, could keep as many as 22 million perfectly legal eligible voters from being able to cast their legal vote.”

        • Joyce

          are you Ted Cruz in disguise? You sound just as stupid as he does.

        • highpckts

          My question is why now??? Why all of a sudden is there this rampant voter “fraud” and it needs to be addressed NOW?? Because the GOP will lose if they don’t gerrymander and suppress the vote!!

          • foundingprinciples

            No, it is to keep up standards, avoid Democrat fraud.

          • jmprint

            Republicans lost by 4.+ milion votes. No need for Democratic fraud, you old fool.

        • THS_Warrior

          Regardless of whether their names still appear on some voter registration role created before they died, it is clear to those of us who are not brain dead that dead people do NOT vote, for good reasons apparent to everyone except those conservatives who are dead from the neck up.

          • foundingprinciples

            “Sneaky voter-drive employees are to blame for submitting hundreds of faulty registration applications in Colorado, said an official with the nonprofit organization that mobilized the effort. These workers were able to thwart the drive’s system of checks and balances, said Jim Fleischmann, regional coordinator of the voting registration effort of the Association of Community Organization for Reform Now, commonly known as ACORN. … Apparently, several [ACORN] employees filled out numerous duplicate applications, but submitted them one-by-one over an extended period of time, he said.”

            SOURCE:
            Gabrielle Crist, “Faulty Voter Applications Are Blamed On Workers,” Rocky Mountain News, 10/15/04
            —————–
            I could post examples like this for hours.

          • THS_Warrior

            “I could post examples like this for hours.” Yes, and I or anyone else could post comments favoring inapposite positions from
            other “reliable sources” too– if we wanted to live in the distant past with old people like you, Mr. foundingprincipals.
            This rotting pile of spoiled Rocky Mountain oysters has been
            laying around stinking up America for over NINE (9) years now. Come join us in the year 2013, if you can.

          • foundingprinciples

            This is why there is no point in providing data to Leftists. Left-wingers always contrive some excuse to deny anything that does not align with their dogma.

    • highpckts

      THERE IS NONE!!

  • tax payer

    I have decided I am going to register to vote, so I will have in my possession everything I need in order to prove who I am. Now, how hard is that to do? Even, if I have to crawl to get there I will make an effort to register.

    • WhutHeSaid

      Crawling to get there would be rather fitting for a lying, cheating, bigoted snake — don’t you think?

      • tax payer

        Your mother told me she was single, so she lied and you are the result.

        • WhutHeSaid

          Oooo – mom jokes. How sophisticated. I’m certain that the only action you ever got was with your Rush Limbaugh blowup doll, and I’m willing to bet it wasn’t consensual even then.

          • THS_Warrior

            Have you not heard the latest? Because of all his recent contract troubles and sponsors cancelling on him, the self-proclaimed leader of the conservative “movement” and greatest talk show host ever to grace the airways, Rush Limbaugh, has just changed his name to Lush Rimbaugh. Then when he tried to photo-shop his birth certificate to make everything fit, he discovered that his real father was Adolph Hitler.

      • tax payer

        You must be describing those in Congress because isn’t that the same thing they do in Congress? They lie through their teeth and everyone believes them.

    • foundingprinciples

      Yes, it is not hard and responsible people make the needed efforts.

      Liberals are claiming, or implying, the following:

      1. There is a multitude of people who do not have any of the following: A birth certificate, a legal address, a driver’s license, a bill for anything, a credit card, a pay stub, a bank account, a social security card, or not even anything from welfare or food stamps! Left-wingers are telling us that there are millions of people like that!

      2. Next, Liberals are implying that these masses of people actually are desperate to get out and vote.

      The first is obviously wrong, and the second is quite absurd.

      The idea that it is “too hard” for these people who do not seem to have any form of photo ID and are DESPERATE to get out and vote (despite the fact that 40% of REGISTERED voters do not even bother) to go to a local office to get some free ID is quite preposterous.

      • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

        “or not even anything from welfare or food stamps! ” Republicans get welfare and/or food stamps not just left wingers.

        In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs. Seniors and those born in rural areas, in particular, face a difficult time meeting the requirement because birth certificates weren’t necessarily generated. In addition, many of these people were delivered by midwives, who often improperly spelled babies’ and parents’ names on birth documents. If a state does have a person’s birth certificate, they often must present a photo ID to obtain a copy. That can put an individual back at square one.

        Birth certificate may not be sufficient documentation for women who changed their names after marrying. States require them to present their marriage licenses or divorce decrees.

        Many seniors and many poor people don’t drive. In big cities, many minorities rely on public transit.
        What is absurd is your apparent disdain for people who do not have the appropriate forms of ID and can not jump though the hoops being put before them to exercise their “Right to Vote”.

        • foundingprinciples

          {“or not even anything from welfare or food stamps! ” Republicans get welfare and/or food stamps not just left wingers.}

          But I thought it was an evil Republican plot against Democrats!

          Check out the requirements. Almost anything is accepted! I clearly and explicitly listed what is acceptable in most cases to get voter ID: Essentially almost anything. I ain’t gonna list it again, pal.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            No the new laws in North Carolina and Texas do not accept almost anything. The laws vary from state to state and “pal” you do not have to list it again.

          • Joyce

            go away, right fighter. Go work with your republican hypocrites and leave the rest of good, American citizens alone.

          • highpckts

            Well you are wrong with your list!! Almost anything used to be the way it was. Not anymore thanks to your suppressors!!

          • WhutHeSaid

            Stop lying, you bigoted nut-bag. Everyone knows there isn’t a voter fraud problem, and everyone also knows that these voter ID monkeyshines are just another attempt to cheat your way into office because your policies are despicable.

            Tell me — when is the last time you opened your face-anus and at least one lie didn’t flap out? Ever?

          • susiep44

            Don’t know what state law you are talking about but I live in NC and “almost anything” is not accepted here. Your folks only worry about voter fraud would favor Democrats – if they thought it would favor Republicans they would let Virginians vote in NC.

          • plc97477

            Actually, most cases of voter fraud (of which there is very few) were attributed to repugs.

        • foundingprinciples

          {Republicans get welfare and/or food stamps not just left wingers.}

          Going on the dole and getting a handout has little to do with political party. Heck, about half of the population does not even vote!

        • idamag

          The oil companies do not pay taxes, yet they get government subsidies to keep the costs down, so every time he fills up his car, he has his hand out. Government farm subsidies and parities help pay for his produce. He has his hand out. Walmart employees help pay for his cheap merchandise, so he even takes from the poor. As I said before, it depends on who is doing the taking.

      • jmprint

        A judge in Corpus Christi has been voting for the last forty years. When she went to early voting last week she was turned down and had to sign an affidavit to prove it was her. The discrepancy was with the drivers license and voter ID card. One had her maiden name and the other her middle name. I have the same issue. Will I have to prove I am who I am if I want to vote? Why are the republicans making it harder for citizens, when fraud is less then 1%?

        • foundingprinciples

          “all Sandra Watts had to do was fill out a voter affidavit saying it is her”

          http://www.carbonated.tv/news/voter-id-blocks-texas-judge-from-voting

          WOW. So hard. Soooo much oppression! Had to sign a paper. How awful. How humiliating.

          THE HORROR, THE HORROR…

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcAYMb5uk4

          • jmprint

            It is humiliating, and all these to apiece a few nutbag, like yourself.

          • foundingprinciples

            Yes. My wife and I were so poor that we actually qualified for FOOD STAMPS. Didn’t even have a television or a phone.

            But we would not even consider getting FOOD STAMPS. Never did and never will, either.

          • dtgraham

            Ha! Are you kiddin’ me? When I was a kid, we never even had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper. That was an improvement, because the best we could manage prior to that was to suck on a piece of damp cloth, but we were happy in those days because we were poor. We used to live in one room, all 26 of us. We had no floor and no ceiling….we had to cling to the walls.

            That was a step up because before that, we lived in a shoe box in the middle of the road. We were lucky. We had to get out of the shoebox at midnight and lick the road clean with our tongue for a living.

            At one time we lived in a paper bag in a septic tank. We got up at 6:00 AM, cleaned the paper bag, ate a crust of stale bread, went to work for 14 hours a day and when we got home our father would thrash us to sleep with his belt, or a bread knife, or a broken bottle (whatever the mood called for).

            Yet, I somehow turned out to be a Socialist. Whoda’ thunk it?

          • foundingprinciples

            You sound like a Liberal with that post. Liberals make up horror stories in order to have rationales to confiscate the property of the successful. Sounds like you have had a lot of practice. Very creative.

          • dtgraham

            I’ve never been a Liberal although I’m beginning to appreciate them quite a bit in my old age. That would be Liberal with a capital L, as in the Liberal Party of Canada. I’m a New Democrat…the democratic socialists.

          • foundingprinciples

            If you are Canadian, that is different. Look at Australia – Tony Abbott. A Conservative who is head of the Liberal Party there. As opposed to the Labor Party, of course.

            But if you are a Canadian, what are you doing on a site about AMERICAN politics? Why not go to a Canadian site? Are you a wanna-be American or something?

          • dtgraham

            Not all parties and politics are exactly the same throughout the British Commonwealth. Tony Abbott started out with John Howard as a portfolio minister with the Cons but eventually became a Liberal. True, but that doesn’t necessarily translate anywhere else.

            Any federal government in Canada after 2015 is likely to be a virtual coalition between the Liberals, New Democrats, and Greens…if the polls mean anything. Today’s Canadian Liberals are probably more different from the Tories than their Australian counterparts.

            American politics you ask? America is still the Mecca of the world as John Lennon once put it. Plus, we’re right next door and get most of your TV stations if you have the right cable connection. Trust me, I argue politics with Canadian Progressive Conservatives on lots of different venues, but most of the time it just isn’t as interesting. We argue dry policy differences but not the nutty batshit crap of American politics. There’s no such thing as “this week in crazy” in Canadian politics, but “this week in crazy” is damned interesting, you have to admit.

            It’s one of the things that brings me here. That, and my affinity for my liberal/progressive American brethren in America and the Democratic Party. I also follow French, German, and British politics and subscribe to the BBC and Deutsche Welle in my cable package.

          • idamag

            Thank you for visiting this site. It is always good to see this from another perspective. Welcome.

          • dtgraham

            Thank you so much idamag. Typical American hospitality.

          • Joyce

            dry up. You are such a hypocrite. It is the right of every citizen to have the opportunity to vote. The “fraud” claim is ridiculous as the 1 or 2 people who try to vote illegally (if even that many) has not nearly the effect of denying the constitutional right of people to vote. You’re just bitter and a right-fighter. You won’t listen to reason and you just want what you want when you want it. Think of other people besides yourself.

          • foundingprinciples

            Yes, it is. But it is not their right to have things handed on a silver platter. Heck, there is early voting, the voting time is extended, and on and on.

            People who are too lazy to make the effort do not deserve to vote.

          • highpckts

            IF it were that easy, there wouldn’t be a problem now would there!! How many examples do you need of this suppression?>?

          • foundingprinciples

            There is not any “suppression.”

            And you are really saying that the “oppressed” people are all going to vote Democrat. Please prove that. Thanks.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Look, you nutty bigots are wasting your time. America will never again have a white majority Presidential election, and every election will find you more marginalized. The sheer numbers will absolutely steamroll you morons no matter how many stupid bigot tricks you pull out of your ass.

            It’s about time you start giving serious thought about how you are going to comport yourself in the ever-diversifying America that you now face. You will learn to behave yourselves like good little bigots or you will get slapped back into your place. That’s your future — you’d better get used to it.

          • THS_Warrior

            Perhaps I am not thinking clearly at age 71, but golly gee whiz: being one of the last of a dying breed of humans (Caucasions) is kind of fun, sort of like how the ancient Romans must have felt while watching Rome burn to the ground for the last time.
            Although most elderly white male conservatives refuse to accept the Final Judgment of Mother Nature, it is clear to most other humans who can think things through, that Mother Nature long ago clearly decided to re-populate this badly polluted earth with Hispanics and Aisans.
            Perhaps we Caucasions can build a starship and then go pollute some other fragile solar system in a galaxy far far away…??

          • WhutHeSaid

            For those who don’t believe in racism or bigotry everything should be just fine. For those who do, it probably would be a good idea to launch themselves into space — with or without a ship. Leaping off the edge of the Earth would work equally well.

          • nirodha

            For many of the ultraconservative right wing loonie tunes, the Flat Earth Society is alive and well, so they COULD leap off the edge if they really wanted to!

          • tax payer

            So, you think you can talk us into leaping out to Space. Dream on like the illegals.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Say, while you’re on the subject — aren’t you an anchor baby?

          • tax payer

            I am 100% American and a member of the DAI.

          • WhutHeSaid

            You or your family probably immigrated from Europe — am I right? You most likely aren’t Native American, which means that to the original Americans you are an illegal or an anchor baby.

            I’m not sure what the acronym DAI stands for, so I suppose you want me to guess. Hmmm…could be Dumb Ass Illegal, Dopey And Ignorant, Drooling American Imposter — how about a hint?

          • tax payer

            You were close in your first guess. Deport All Illegals.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Starting with you. So you may leave now and go back to whatever shit-hole you came from. America has always welcomed honest, hard-working immigrants, but we don’t need lying, bigoted, cheating, low-life rejects from other countries.

          • tax payer

            America has never welcomed illegals, but they still come uninvited. You have just described yourself, so Congratulations for being so honest. Sure, ( hard working ) to find someone to shack up with while living in this country as an illegal. Many illegals come to this country and find someone, and never go back to their wives or husbands. So, sure they come to have a better life and they forget about their families in Mexico.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Neither me nor my family are immigrants, unlike you.

            For the record, any immigrant — illegal or otherwise — is preferable to xenophobic, lying, cheating, low-life bigots. Please go back to wherever you came from so that you make room for a real person.

          • tax payer

            Don’t you have to go to Church or are you an Atheist like me?

          • CrankyToo

            You actually belong to a group which calls itself, “Deport All Illegals”?

          • tax payer

            Yes, and I am the only member, so I alone can’t win.

          • CrankyToo

            So you’re a Klan of one… What do you do at meetings, play with yourself?

          • tax payer

            KKK are against Blacks and I am against Illegals, so ( No ) I am not KKK.

          • WhutHeSaid

            But you ARE an illegal and anchor baby.

          • WhutHeSaid

            If you deport yourself we will all win.

          • tax payer

            In your Dreams because I have as much right to live here as every American born here except the Anchor Babies.

          • WhutHeSaid

            You ARE an anchor baby.

          • tax payer

            In Reality ( everyone born here ) is an anchor baby, so that includes you unless you were born in a Foreign Country.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Nope. Not everyone born here is an anchor baby, but you certainly are.

          • tax payer

            I am from Texas, so I will leave for now, so I can watch the Dallas Cowboys lose another game. Hook Em Horns! Say, don’t you have something else more important to do on a Sunday? I do stuff and come back, and read your comments, but don’t you think you are going overboard.

          • WhutHeSaid

            I am doing other things. It just so happens that they involve using the computer. You just worry about finding some asbestos bloomers for yourself while you are out and about — you will need them where you’re going, you anchor baby.

          • Allan Richardson

            Except it’s the Asians who are getting the education and picking up the “space race” where we left off when we started fighting one another. Quite a few of the science fiction stories set in the future (22nd century) mention that their characters have to learn Chinese (one writer said “techno-Mandarin”) to get by in a multi-planetary (with independent space stations counting as “planets” for political purposes) human world.

          • THS_Warrior

            I agree; most Asians are much smarter than the current crop of Americans, that’s for dang sure. I hope this does not sound too judgmental, but if I had to bet on the “winning” race to succeed Caucasians, and had to choose between the two fastest
            growing races on earth (Chinese and Mexicans), it would be no contest.

          • tax payer

            Every room will have to be scrubbed clean before 2016.

          • foundingprinciples

            Ed Asner summed up Left-winger mentality. (He is of the far Left, ya know.) He was asked why the Liberals in Hollywood did not say anything about the possible bombing in Syria that Lord Obama threatened.

            Asner said, “A lot of people don’t want to feel anti-black by being opposed to Obama.”

          • WhutHeSaid

            I’m not sure what you believe quoting Ed Asner has to do with anything, but I’m guessing that it somehow appears to validate your bigoted views — at least in your mind.

            Look, you can post your nonsense all day every day and it won’t matter one little bit. America is changing every day, and bitter bigots like you just aren’t relevant. Voter suppression will only hasten the inevitable — just as it did in 2012 when people made it a point to vote despite every dirty little trick that you bitter little racists could contrive. Obama was re-elected by an even larger margin than would have been the case exactly because of all the hijinks.

            White majority elections are over in America. Same-sex marriage is quickly becoming the rule rather than the exception. The PPACA is the law and won’t go away — in fact, all of the nonsense generated by the Neanderthals among us will probably hasten the day that health care becomes a single-payer system.

            All of America is familiar with the Tea Bigot penchant for lying, and nobody really expects anything else. The majority will simply steam-roll all of that noise into oblivion. It’s happening now and there’s nothing you can do about it.

          • foundingprinciples

            {I’m not sure what you believe quoting Ed Asner has to do with anything}

            It is crystal clear, obvious: Ed Asner is a spokesman for Liberals. His utterances show the Left-winger mindset.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Only to right-wing nutty-buddies who have trouble recognizing reality.

          • nirodha

            You and your kind are rapidly becoming irrelevant, because your racism and bigotry will die with you. Today’s younger generation generally do not care about superficial differences, Skin color, racial background, sexual orientation are all part of the polyglot mixture of the human race. In another couple of hundred years or so, the world will be populated by a race of honey-colored people speaking a common language, working together for the common good of society in general. That is, unless we succeed in destroying each other in the process. In another generation here in America, bigoted reactionaries like you will be viewed as a quaint footnote in American history, sort of akin to the Know Nothing party of the mid 19th century. Like it or not, FP, you are on your way out. You might want to lighten up and enjoy what little time remains to you.

          • foundingprinciples

            The Left-wingers are the bigots.

          • sandrajeanford

            Only because she went to vote in her very own courthouse where everybody knew her. Many many women won’t be so lucky and will then have 6 days to come back with, what do they want, your original marriage certificate?

          • Allan Richardson

            Liz Taylor would have had to come up with, what, 6 or 7 marriage certificates and 5 or 6 divorce certificates to vote under today’s Texas laws. And if not for her fortune, she would not have been able to afford to make all those trips AND pay all those fees.

          • johninPCFL

            Birth certificate, marriage certificate, and if you’ve moved, who knows?

          • foundingprinciples

            Show me documented evidence of someone not able to vote, please. Not this Liberal horseshit speculation and what “could be.”

            Thank you.

          • johninPCFL

            The point you missed is that her ballot is now a “provisional” ballot. What exactly are the circumstances that “provisional” ballots are counted? In FL they’re only counted if the race in question is closer than 5%. Since all female married voters in Texas will presumably be getting “provisional” ballots, doesn’t this seem like an awfully convenient way to make sure that a white, male, republican is the next Texas governor?

        • nirodha

          Because if republicans did not cheat, by gerrymandering and by establishing voter suppression, they would soon be a small minority of the electorate, and would win very few national political races. They are becoming the party of desperation, and for them, this leads to the adoption of desperate measures. These desperate republicans are largely angry old white men who know that their days are numbered. They are dying out, and they are not being replaced. Basically, they are scared to death that their franchise is doomed, and you know what? This is one of the very few things that they’ve got right.

          • idamag

            I had a friend, once, who said, “I don’t believe you never cheated on your income tax. Everybody does.” That is why the tp is screaming “voter fraud.” They think because they do it, everybody does.

        • johninPCFL

          The point you missed was that the maiden name as the middle name was also a state requirement. That’s right, ladies and gentlemen, the state requires that when you marry your maiden name appears on your drivers license as your middle name. Your voter ID, on the other hand, requires the name sequence from your birth certificate, adjusted for legal name changes (such as marriage.) The state of Texas has set up the perfect way to keep married women from voting, and now they’re enforcing it.

          • jmprint

            You are right.

        • kmkirb

          I posted the link above jmprint, but as you can see below, IT has pronounced from high upon IT’s perch IT’s ‘all knowing better than anyone else’ what one should do. I hope IT gets hit by lightening, a bus, a hammer that flew off it’s handle, something, anything, to finally prove to IT that anything can happen to anyone in this mortal life of ours. Please Lord, smite IT & others like IT.

      • http://www.examiner.com/political-rebuttal-in-national/michael-ross Michael Ross

        The first is true. I know this from firsthand experience.

        To get a State ID in my home state, I needed my social security card, an ORIGINAL certified birth certificate (which was not cheap, BTW), a photo ID, and proof of address.

        For “proof of address,” it was suggested that I open a bank account. So I went to the bank, and guess what they wanted to see before I could open a bank account. That’s right ladies and gentlemen: They wanted a State ID.

        That’s what’s known as a Catch 22: A situation where you’re locked into place because neither requirement can be accomplished until you’ve completed the other one. One which, had I not found a bank whose CEO was A) willing to hear me out, and B) willing to bend the rules and take my word for it that I’d soon have a State ID, I’d still be dealing with today.

        So like it or not, the claims are true: There are plenty of people who don’t have all of the documentation required, and the rules are being rewritten in red and battleground states to ensure that they can’t.

        If you missed it, the National Memo has an entire list of Republicans who have flat out admitted that they are trying to suppress votes.

        How morally bankrupt are you that someone can flat out admit they’re trying to screw you over and you continue to suck dick for them?

        • midway54

          “How morally bankrupt are you that someone can flat out admit they’re trying to screw you over and you continue to suck dick for them?”

          Likely it’s unbounded. However, the ranks of the vulnerable dupes and yahoos are filled with semiliterates or persons with mental defects all of whom respond positively to the rightwing rot surrounding them, bringing joy to the plutocrats and their highly paid media and political sycophants.

        • nirodha

          I don’t know if it’s as much moral bankruptcy as it is just flat-out dumb-ass stupidity. There are a lot of uneducated low-information sad sacks who hew to the right wing party line for reasons known only to themselves. Not for nothing are the republicans known as “the party of stupid”.

        • foundingprinciples

          I would take the trouble to ask you the state, then go to the website and check to prove you are wrong, but I will not go to the trouble. YOU are asserting a lie, and it is up to YOU to provide the link to the state showing the requirements.

          But you will not. I caught you before with your lies and documented the truth with links, names of sources and quotes. I will not play your “liar” game. It is up to YOU to prove what you presented. And I know you will not. You will respond with insults or silence as always.

          • http://www.examiner.com/political-rebuttal-in-national/michael-ross Michael Ross

            Ask and you shall receive:
            http://www.massrmv.com/rmv/license/id_brochure.pdf

            Believe it or not, the list of documents is actually longer. I forgot “proof of signature.”

            You might notice something else too: All that is to get a permit, and to get the photo ID, you need the permit.

            And do you know what the permit has written on it? “Not a valid form of ID.”

            You said I wouldn’t give proof, and I did. Now comes the part where you start whining about something else entirely.

          • kmkirb

            IT is a disgusting troll Michael. If IT was really a man, & you proved IT had a dick,with balls, & pukid hairs, he’d call you a lying liberal. That’s how far off IT’s nut is.

          • http://www.examiner.com/political-rebuttal-in-national/michael-ross Michael Ross

            I know. IT is following me on Disqus and has been hounding my column for weeks. And the reason I put such a bug up his ass was because I challenged the “public school indoctrination” theory.

            But calling out stupid people for their stupidity is pretty much what my column is all about, so I never get tired of it.

          • kmkirb

            Good for you Michael. Kudos & congrats. I just can’t stomach most of the BS. IT did the same thing to me. Went in search of posts I made months ago, commenting, voting down et al. I finally blocked my profile, & I now go in search to wrap a flag.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Well, you certainly have your work cut out for you with this nut-bag. I believe that somewhere the orderlies are searching for him with butterfly nets.

          • foundingprinciples

            Caught you again in your LIES and DECEIT!

            First of all, no photo ID is required in Taxachusetts (isn’t that what they call MA?).

            Next, there are the
            “ID Requirements: If you are registering to vote or voting for the first time you must send identification that includes your name and the address at which you are registered to vote, some acceptable forms include:
            -Current and valid driver’s license;
            -Photo identification; or
            -Current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check, or other government document showing your name and address”

            http://votesmart.org/elections/voter-registration/MA#.UmyTZPmmjsM

            Virtually ANYTHING showing one’s name on it! Heck, a utility bill. I am sure a WELFARE check or name on a FOOD STAMP card or Housing Project list will do.
            ——————–
            In your DECEIT and LIES, you thought you could get me to think you led me to a voter’s registration site. It was for getting a DRIVER’S LICENSE.

            You are a liar and a phony. This is the THIRD time I have conclusively proven it!

          • http://www.examiner.com/political-rebuttal-in-national/michael-ross Michael Ross

            Bullshit you caught me in a lie. What you’re really doing is trying to pretend we were talking about something else altogether (because you think nobody can go back and friggin’ read everything that came before this).

            I never said it was a pain in the ass to vote in Massachusetts. I said it was a pain in the ass to get a State ID, and anyone who has doubts about that can scroll back up through this conversation and see for themselves.

            I told you what was required, you said I lied, and I PROVED that what I said was required was required. So, backed up in the corner as you are, you shoved your head firmly up your ass and reinvented reality to your liking.

            You never caught me in a lie — you just PRETENDED you did by lying about what I said. Because you were too stupid to remember that everything we’ve said is in text and can be reviewed by anyone reading this.

            You are the ultimate fraud. Your name is fake, your profile is fake, your beliefs are fake, and to top it all off, you have just now proven that you can’t even tell the truth about that which is right in front of you for the entire world to see.

            YOU ARE LITERALLY LYING ABOUT WHAT WAS WRITTEN ON THE SAME PAGE THAT IT WAS WRITTEN.

            It doesn’t get any more pathetic than that.

          • foundingprinciples

            This was about voter ID and the requirements. You sent me to ID for getting a DRIVER’S LICENSE!

            You are thoroughly dishonest. One trick that Left-wingers use is when there is a discussion about voter ID, the Liberals say that “Photo IDs cost money.”

            And that is true, but the Liberals LIED by DECEIVING.

            Yes, state photo IDs do cost money. But the topic – that these Leftist deceivers and prevaricators omit, hoping people do not notice – is that it is not VOTER photo IDs, but just plain old IDs!

            You are dishonest. The topic was about voter IDs, and you presented information about just state IDs – to get a driver’s license.

            This is typical: Sneaky, dishonest and unethical. Deplorable.

          • http://www.examiner.com/political-rebuttal-in-national/michael-ross Michael Ross

            Chant that until you’re blue in the face and it still won’t make it magically come true.

            Here is the actual record of what happened, as anyone can see for themselves.

            1: You said, and I quote, “Liberals are claiming, or implying, the following [...] There is a multitude of people who do not have any of the
            following: A birth certificate, a legal address, a driver’s license, a
            bill for anything, a credit card, a pay stub, a bank account, a social
            security card, or not even anything from welfare or food stamps!”

            2: I informed you that those claims are correct: That there are PLENTY of people out there who do not have the above-mentioned documentation, and used my own experiences trying to get a State photo ID as an example of just how difficult the necessary documentation can be to acquire.

            3: You said, and I quote: “I would take the trouble to ask you the state, then go to the website and check to prove you are wrong, but I will not go to the trouble. YOU are asserting a lie, and it is up to YOU to provide the link to the state showing the requirements.

            4: I did exactly what you told me to do; I linked to show you the requirements.

            5: You started screaming that I was a liar for not having showed you something that I was never challenged to provide in the first place.

            And hey, remember that thing I said about the biggest liars being the ones that can’t shut up about something? So what does it say that you can’t finish a sentence without inserting the words “liar,” “deceit,” or some other synonym for such?

            That’s right: It makes you a liar. You’re clinging to that same Tea Party magic mentality that chanting something over and over again may magically make it come true.

            But it won’t. I am not a liar, you are a fraud, and no amount of chanting on your part will change that.

          • plc97477

            Maybe the new motto of the gotp should be “You know we can hearread you, right?”

          • http://www.examiner.com/political-rebuttal-in-national/michael-ross Michael Ross

            You have sunk to levels I wouldn’t have expected even you to sink to. You’re actually trying to lie about what I said on the same page that I said it.

            I never said it was hard to vote in Massachusetts. I said it was hard to get a State ID, which is, in most of the “Voter ID” states, the requirement for voting. And anyone who isn’t quite sure about that only needs to scroll back up through a few posts on this page if they want to check for themselves.

            First, you said people not having State IDs was a lie.
            I said they don’t because they are more difficult to acquire than they should be, and you said that was a lie.
            I PROVED to you that it wasn’t a lie, and you responded by lying about what I had said about so you could once again accuse me of lying.

            You are the ultimate fraud; so compulsive a liar that you can’t even tell the truth about that which is right out in the open for the entire world to see.

          • WhutHeSaid

            You hit the nail right on the head. FloutingPrinciples is such a compulsive liar that he can’t remember the lies that he’s told in the last 10 minutes, never mind the last day. He also contradicts his own posts — sometimes even in the very same post. I believe he needs professional intervention.

          • foundingprinciples

            You are lying. It was in the context of voter ID. What do you think this thread is about – Getting a driver’s license?

            I exposed your lie and attempt to steer me in a different direction. This is typical with you.

          • http://www.examiner.com/political-rebuttal-in-national/michael-ross Michael Ross

            Because you are still at war with reality, let me remind you, in small terms even you could understand, what happened YET AGAIN:

            1) You said it was a myth that people don’t have drivers licenses.
            2) I said it wasn’t and described how hard it was for me to get one.
            3) You said I was lying and challenged me to substantiate it.
            4) I did.
            5) You started screaming “LIAR! LIAR! LIAR!” like a bloody car alarm.

            That, you miserable excuse for a vertebrae, is what really happened, and no amount of magical tea-bagger chanting will make it change.

          • foundingprinciples

            Lies yet again. I said it was a myth that people have to pay for photo IDs to vote. I said it was a myth that only special, hard-to-get information is needed to register to vote. All lies.

            Then you send me to a site to get driver’s licenses. You are a phony. I caught you on the union lies you made, and you REFUSED to accept the QUOTE from the #1 educational association in the ENTIRE COUNTRY, along with a link.

            I remember you lied and said that the link did not connect to anything. I checked it myself, then sent it to two friends via email. They both could connect.

            So, since this system does not show all of the characters, I again posted it so every single character could be seen, and you could connect.

            So, what do I get from you?

            NO-THING. SILENCE. No recognition of your deceit and lies.

          • kmkirb

            EXCERPT: “Proponents of government-issued photo ID laws say it’s simple to get “free” identification to exercise our most fundamental right. During an interview, Republican Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam, who signed into law voter ID requirements for Tennessee, stated he has hesitations with the new law because it will make it “unnecessarily hard” for some people in his state to vote.”

            “Given human nature, people tend not to address things until the last minute sometimes,” Haslam said.”I’m concerned about that last minute, when seniors say, ‘I really want to vote, I want to vote at the polling place, I don’t want to vote absentee. Oh, I need to get a photo ID! … and I’m concerned about the waiting time [at driver's licensing stations].”

            “We’ve heard about people across the country struggling to obtain IDs in states with new government-issued photo ID requirements. Below you will find the stories we’ve collected from a diverse group of hardworking Americans.”

            Read their stories (lots of resources links)… http://www.lawyerscommittee.org/page?id=0046

            ————————————————————————————

            “Everything You’ve Ever Wanted to Know About Voter ID Laws”(also has lots of resources links)

            This post is being kept up-to-date. It was first published on July 23.

            http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws/single#republish

            ————————————————————————————-

            Texas Judge Almost Blocked From Voting Because of New Voter ID Law – (Published October 24, 2013)

            “A Texas district judge who has been voting for the past five decades was almost barred from the polls Tuesday, thanks to the state’s newly implemented, stricter voter ID law. The law kicked in on Tuesday as early voting in Texas’ November 5 election began.”

            Read more… http://www.nationofchange.org/texas-judge-almost-blocked-voting-because-new-voter-id-law-1382623066

            ———————————————————————————–

            “GOP official resigns over comments on ‘Daily Show’ about voter ID, racist remarks”

            EXCERPT: “This is a great example of what this whole bill was about and now we have a Republican official admitting it,” said Fitzsimon.”

            Read more & see the video… http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/politics&id=9300007#comment-1097983108

          • idamag

            And these IDs cost money. I know a man who has uncontrollable seizures and cannot get a drivers license. I know a woman with macular degeneration who does not have a drivers license. There are people who no longer drive because of things related to age. For $25 they can get a photo ID card in my state, if they can get there in the first place. How much more expensive would it be in New York City where much of the population choose not to drive because of the convenience of public transportation, extremely high parking fees or stop and go traffic? What works in Mayberry does not work in Boston.

          • kmkirb

            Exactly, but too many of these dimwits just want to follow the lying conservatives around praising them like some sort of Gods & not accepting that not everyone lives as they do, or the fact that their own dang circumstances WILL change over time.

            They’ll never admit it, just like most people don’t because they can’t think past their limiting beliefs, & that it will never happen to them because they themselves haven’t experienced it, & don’t know anyone else who has experienced it in their small little circles of influence, so we must be lying. LOFL!

        • idamag

          A copy of your utility bill should be enough proof of address.

      • Mark Forsyth

        What’s preposterous is your presence on this page and your stupid ass comments. Go hang out with your scum buckets.No one who is engaged in any activity designed to disenfranchise a legal,law abiding voter can honestly claim to be an American citizen.You are an abomination.

        • foundingprinciples

          The overall point is that there is no voter suppression. It is a Leftist myth.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Were you born with your head in the sand or do you practice.What’s next,Will you tell us that no black folks and other minority people have been killed for trying to register to vote or that there is no such thing as the KKK? Or are you one of those dolts who wishes to take the country back to a time when those things were commonplace. News Flash: If you leave the hen house door open,the fox will come in.Take your point and sit on it.You gain no traction in face of the truth.

          • foundingprinciples

            The very idea of “suppression” is absurd. Just the idea is filled with Leftist absurdities. Here are just a couple:

            1. Left-wingers are actually claiming that, despite the fact that that average voter turnout over the years is only about 50%, people who do not have driver’s licenses, SS cards, bank accounts, jobs, utility bill receipts, birth certificates, or even welfare check receipts – these people are DESPERATE to vote! What a freakin’ joke!

            2. Left-wingers are actually claiming that these “desperate-to-vote” people will all vote Democrat! How utterly ridiculous.

          • Mark Forsyth

            Saying it over and over again does not make it true.Obviously if the entire GOP admitted that attempts at voter suppression are taking place,you would deny it.How will it be if we prevent you from voting.I’m sure we could use the GOP text book to find a crack pot idea for doing so.

          • foundingprinciples

            I will post something again.

            I lived abroad for many years. To vote, here were the steps:

            1. Find out where to register in the US.
            2. Go to the local post office to mail the inquiry. Could wait a long time in line to get the stamp and envelope.
            3. Wait for the response.
            4. Fill out the forms. The one I did required a notary to verify information (copy of passport, etc.)
            5. Make an appointment with the notary.
            6. Go to the notary’s office.
            7. Pay the notary around $100.
            8. Put this all together.
            9. Go to the post office – takes considerable time – and get in line again.
            10. Wait for the response. Hopefully, it is acceptable.
            11. Get voter form to vote. Fill it out.
            12. Back to the post office. Paying for stamps, of course.

            So, did we Americans whine and bitch and moan?

            Nope! We were actually THANKFUL for the opportunity!

            Stop the excuses, stop the bitching and moaning. If a person wants to vote, he will. Stop the propaganda. You look foolish.

          • nirodha

            Where did you live when you were abroad?

          • foundingprinciples

            I do not tell Liberals personal information. I have always – repeat, ALWAYS – regretted it.

          • nirodha

            First of all, I’m not a liberal. I, too have lived abroad and was curious, that’s all.

          • foundingprinciples

            My mistake: This forum is infested with Left-wingers.

            I lived in Vienna and Japan. I am an American but also have European citizenship. Worked in Bogota, too, on the local economy in all of the places mentioned.

            Where did you live abroad?

      • highpckts

        Did you read the article? Obviously it is not that easy to get some form of ID that will be accepted! You have to prove that that is you on any form of so called ID! Stupid!!

        • foundingprinciples

          Go to some states and see for yourself. Stop the mindlessness. Check things out for yourself instead of just following along, regurgitating whatever the Liberal press tells you to vomit up. Check it out for yourself. Pick some states, imagining you really want to vote and see. Find out the truth. I am telling you the truth, but don’t take my word for it, make a freakin’ effort!

          • highpckts

            Stuff it you of all powerful knowledge! I don’t regurgitate and I do check my facts! Why don’t you try to do the same thing!!

          • foundingprinciples

            I knew you would simply vomit up the Liberal propaganda. It would be simple to check but you prefer to parrot what MSNBC tells you to parrot. Easy, eh?

          • nirodha

            Having been in forty of the fifty states over the past few years, voter suppression attempts are very real. Most have failed through the judicial system, but that is no deterrent to the increasingly desperate ultraconservative right wing. Despite repeated failure over the years, they persist in futile attempts to disenfranchise those minorities that will soon be in the majority.

          • tax payer

            Wow! I have been to only one other State.

          • idamag

            It shows.

          • tax payer

            The reason is not because I can’t afford it because I am in the Best State in the USA, so why visit other States?

          • WhutHeSaid

            My guess is it’s the only state left where you aren’t wanted.

          • tax payer

            That’s where you are wrong because every State wants the money of the tourists, but I won’t have any part of that anymore.

          • WhutHeSaid

            It’s probably because of the warrants. Same reason your family fled from the last country, I expect.

          • tax payer

            You remind me of the Virus I have to remove from my PC once a month.

          • WhutHeSaid

            You mean that even your computer knows you’re an anchor baby? Isn’t technology something?

          • tax payer

            I believe you also remind me of a broken record since you keep repeating the same thing over and over.

          • nirodha

            TP lives in Texas. Res ipsa loquitur!

          • nirodha

            Didn’t Louisiana kick you out?

          • tax payer

            I went to see the Cowboys lose to the Saints and they were slaughtered, so I came back to Texas a Happy man.

      • highpckts

        Gary May’s Bending Toward Justice: The Voting Rights Act and the Transformation of American Democracy. “The saddest is that it is the only advanced democracy ever to disenfranchise, enfranchise and disenfranchise again an entire segment of the population. What should be its most settled right—the right to vote—remains the most contested.”
        Oops! He surely is a Liberal! LOL

      • howa4x

        Most people who live in urban environments don’t have a drivers license because of mass transit, there is no need for a car. Most low paid workers use same day checking so no bank account plus no car. If a state wants to avoid the charge of voter suppression they need to come up with an ID system that takes these issues into account. the only people who don’t think about these issues is the rural/suburban Americans who need cars and are probably middle class enough to have a bank account.
        The other problem is that only the red states are really trying this, and the majority of the population lives in blue states. Even in the red states when enough people feel disenfranchised they will vote out the republican suppressors. Wake up republicans the future is coming and all the tricks you have won’t stop it. Young people, Latino’s Women, minorities, Gays and centrists think republicans and especially the tea party is kryptonite. When the tea party is seen as the gutters of social security and Medicare they will turn against you also. The vast majority of the country is centrists and independents and won’t tolerate your right wing nonsense, for too much longer. So have your fun now because the future has you in the dust bin of history.

      • Suralin

        Due to the sheer size of the US, and (to some extent) government cutbacks, a lot of those “local” offices aren’t so local. It’s often quite a rigamarole to get the necessary transportation to those places. Here in ChesCo PA, the DMV is in Frazer (northeast part of the county), which is a significant drive (or alternatively, multiple-bus ride) that often needs to be planned into someone’s schedule well in advance.

        Someone who’s forced to be on a flexible schedule (shift work, for instance) might not be able to reliably set up a time for that.

        Secondly, the ID itself isn’t “free”, as you claim. Even just renewing my driver’s license at the DMV a few months ago took $25, IIRC, and I had all the proper paperwork. Someone who either lost their paperwork (e.g. fires happen to even the best of us) or didn’t have it to start with (e.g. born at home outside a hospital, surprisingly common among the poor for quite some time) would need to pay quite a bit more to come up with everything they needed.

        And the state non-driving voter ID here in Pennsylvania — before the courts rightly decided the Voter ID thing was a ploy to restrict Democratic voter groups — was going to cost $20 or so. Also not free.

        I’d be more amenable to the idea if it were something that could be phased in over a decade or so, so that everyone had time to get all their stuff in order.

        But when even the supporters of these bills admit, point-blank, that they’re deliberately trying to make it harder for Democratic-leaning groups to vote… (http://www.nationalmemo.com/6-other-times-republicans-admitted-voting-restrictions-are-just-about-disenfranchising-democrats/3/)

        • foundingprinciples

          {a lot of those “local” offices aren’t so local. It’s often quite a rigamarole to get the necessary transportation to those places.}

          My, my, my. Let’s bring voting machines to people’s houses.

          I lived abroad for many years. To vote, here were the steps:
          1. Find out where to register in the US.
          2. Go to the local post office to mail the inquiry. Could wait a long time in line to get the stamp and envelope.
          3. Wait for the response.
          4. Fill out the forms. The one I did required a notary to verify information (copy of passport, etc.)
          5. Make an appointment with the notary.
          6. Go to the notary’s office.
          7. Pay the notary around $100.
          8. Put this all together.
          9. Go to the post office – takes considerable time – and get in line again.
          10. Wait for the response. Hopefully, it is acceptable.
          11. Get voter form to vote. Fill it out.
          12. Back to the post office. Paying for stamps, of course.

          So, did we Americans whine and bitch and moan?

          Nope! We were actually THANKFUL for the opportunity!

          Stop the excuses, stop the bitching and moaning. If a person wants to vote, he will. Stop the propaganda. You look foolish.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            perhaps you are happy living abroad and should consider doing so again. The bitching and moaning are from people like you who keep yelling voter fraud is running rampart. The only place voter fraud in running rampart is in the conspiracy theory minds of people like you. The one looking foolish luv is you.

          • foundingprinciples

            Interesting that the Liberal does not want to insure that there is no voter fraud. The Liberal never endorses or supports attempts to insure that voters are who they claim that they are.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            Interesting but not surprising the Conservative wants to deny American Citizens the right to vote by putting unnecessary obstacles and burdens upon them. By the way some of those people who can not meet the burden of proof because they don’t have the appropriate ID are Veterans, “Gil Parr (above), who served in the U.S. Airforce from 1962-1965, is among veterans in Pennsylvania whose military ID isn’t good enough to let him vote.” http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/Military-Veterans-Blast-Romney-for-Supporting-Voter-Suppression
            A man who served his country defending Democracy is now denied that Democracy here at home. Shame on you and your party. There is no rampart voter fraud, Bush did a 5 year investigation and came up with 86 cases over 5 years and 50 states. No I will not support denying one citizen the right to vote.
            Don’t waste your time responding, I have read your posts.

          • foundingprinciples

            Aaah. The old “I-only-want-to-support-veterans” tactic. Find some exception, some rare and extreme event – especially if it can be an old lady or a veteran – and present it as typical, and present it as though the Liberals want to save us and that they really “care.”

            What a joke. The “AFLCIO?” That UNION of radicals that wants more GOVERNMENT support? That colludes with the federal government? And a “blog” on top of it!

            Absurd.

        • kmkirb

          You link isn’t working Suralin due to that extra ‘/3/’ you have at the end. Here it is… http://www.nationalmemo.com/6-other-times-republicans-admitted-voting-restrictions-are-just-about-disenfranchising-democrats/

      • susiep44

        It does not matter if it stops 12 or 12 million people from exercising their RIGHT to vote as an American. My home state of NC has the dubious distinction of having passed the most restrictive voting laws in this tea drinking nation so my home-bound 98 year old mother-in-law will not be voting for the first time in more than 60 years! The Republican legislator from Buncome County stated in an interview that if blacks, poor people and old folks were too “lazy” to do what was necessary to vote, the law had succeeded! Republicans are going to drum him out of the party but at least he was honest about why the people in Raleigh are there. ONLY IN AMERICA!!!

        • foundingprinciples

          Hey, NC has elected the GOP! Good for them.

          • susiep44

            And devastating for the rest of us!!! Voting is not the only thing these tea party folks has done to this state. We used to be a shining star in the south. Now we are running a race with South Carolina and Mississippi/ Alabama for being the black hole of the south.

      • johninPCFL

        The ALEC regulations require that only certain, approved documents are legitimate for voting. Where you used to be able to use virtually any government document that was delivered by the post office to the address on your voter ID, now the list is very short. State issued student ID with photograph? No. NRA membership card? Yes.

      • RobertCHastings

        You are, sir, unfortunately demented or stupid,or both. You apparently have a vigorous erection for Liberals whose cant seems to excite you beyond your ability to exercise reason.

      • tax payer

        I wonder how they still manage to get Food Stamps, if they don’t have the right Documents. Fraud?

        • foundingprinciples

          Yes, massive fraud. And the federal government has loosen up the requirements. Today, a family of four can have an income as high as around $60,000 and get FOOD STAMPS.

          • tax payer

            I was earning that much, but would never apply for food stamps and that was in 2001, when I retired.

          • foundingprinciples

            Liberals actually tell people that they are entitled to these stamps, and they should not hesitate.

            When Johnson first started the expansion of the welfare state, many still had the work ethic. People who “qualified” for the dole did not sign up. So, the social workers in the cities were actually trained and promoted by getting people to sign up. The very people who were willing to work extra jobs, cut back and do whatever; the very people who had a sense of pride and shame in going on the dole: The Liberals systematically brainwashed and undermined these values.

            The Left-wingers have literally destroyed the lives of millions.

          • kmkirb

            Oh it’s not that I would twist the truth, I would just rather straight out blatantly lie. You see, I get Food Stamps & WIC confused. About the only place this might even compare is say maybe in Hawaii where the median wage is far above $60,000, but who am I to want to quote facts & resources to back up those facts when I can instead state fucking lying bullshit all day!

          • tax payer

            By changing what can be donated to these people ( in food ) it would force these people to get free what is really needed and not only junk food. When you see shopping carts full of cookies, soda, candies and more junk food we know they aren’t providing a balance meal for their children.

          • foundingprinciples

            Yes. The government actually did get some things listed that they cannot use food stamps to buy, like alcohol and cigarettes.

            But what the taxpayer is really doing is SUBSIDIZING their 200-channel cable TV, beer, computer hookup, text messaging, pets and so on.

            That is because these scammers can use the FOOD STAMPS to buy the basic food, and use the cash they save for the cable TV, dog food, beer, wine, cigarettes, and so on.

    • highpckts

      Most everyone eligible to vote are already registered but that is not enough for the GOP! We proved who we were upon registering now we have to prove it again! BS!!

      • tax payer

        I believe anyone that was born here ( USA ) should be able to prove who they are because they have been doing it since grade school, Everytime they apply for some assistance of some form they’ll have to show proof, so why is it so hard to prove who you are to register to vote? The elderly as myself have been showing proof for years and, if they don’t drive anymore they should have replaced their driver’s license with a State ID.

        • nirodha

          Talk about having been born here, TP, how about the native peoples? Yeah, I’m talking about the indigenous Americans who live on reservations. How shall some of them provide proof of citizenship? And why should they have to?

          • tax payer

            They can always vote for Big Red Shoe to be their next Chief in their Reservation, if they won’t make an effort to register to vote.

          • Mark Forsyth

            And this Proud Mohawk Native American says that a no good piece of shit like you can go Fuck Yourself!!!

          • charleo1

            HA! Now tell him how you really feel, Mark!
            Me, and my Great, Great Grandma, who was
            half Cherokee, and very proud of it.
            Second that remark!

          • Mark Forsyth

            Good blessings on both of you,charleo1. That turd wouldn’t last two minutes where I live.

          • kmkirb

            And I have to 3rd that remark. Sorry taxpayer, but you asked for it. I also am 1/3 Native American known as the Lenni Lanape Tribe (or Delaware Tribe as some say).

        • THS_Warrior

          Just listen to TP, the Indiana Hoosier, asking for it once again:
          “The elderly as myself have been showing proof for years and, if they don’t drive anymore they should have replaced their driver’s license with a State ID.”
          I wonder if our elderly non-compassionate conservative white Hoosier dude who calls himself “tax payer” while sitting on his fat arse drawing down many $$$ thousands of US taxpayer dollars every year in the form of Social Security benefits and Medicare benefits has any idea how many real Americans commenting on this thread and reading his garbage are actively wishing dear TP an early demise so he can tell it to God?

          • tax payer

            You must know by now there is ( No God ) because, if there was a God no one would be killed daily by others such as murder.

          • nirodha

            There is no god and he is always with you.

          • tax payer

            I have Satan with me, so there is no room for your God.

          • THS_Warrior

            FYI: I know a whole lot more about the One God than you do tax payer. For example, I know that even the devil believes in the One God of Love. Good luck in the near future when you get a chance to explain why you hate so many of God’s children.

          • tax payer

            People are brainwashed into accepting what is not real, so that’s fine as long as they don’t come to my door and try to convince me a God does exist. I hate the fact we have to provide for those that refuse to provide for themselves, so how hard is that to understand by the tax payers.

      • idamag

        They could check names against the registry all along without ever the fascist purging.

    • THS_Warrior

      Good for you sport. But what about all the blind people? And what about all the very elderly conservatives who cannot drive anymore? And what about all the hopeful but very infirm disbaled voters who have no legs to crawl on to get to the third or fourth floor office of a secured government building where the sacred voter rolls are always hidden from everyone’s view? Have you no compassion?

      • nirodha

        We’ve already established, some time ago, that TP has not one ounce of compassion. ANYONE who has to depend on any kind of social services, for any reason whatsoever, is a moocher and a taker in his view. When he reaches his final destination, I wonder how he is going to be judged?

        • Allan Richardson

          If he professes to be a Christian, he should read Matthew 25.

          • nirodha

            I believe that he professes to be an atheist, but that’s irrelevant. I wouldn’t want to be accruing his karma; the next life might be a bit bumpy.

          • THS_Warrior

            You may be right. It would also serve Justice if TP comes back to earth in his next life as a blind paraplegic Native American.

          • plc97477

            With no ID.

          • THS_Warrior

            Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

      • idamag

        If they were really concerned about voter fraud, they would have been checking out names two years before the elections, not just before.

      • idamag

        What about the people, with handicaps, who had to wait in a line 6 hours to get to vote. One woman, they interviewed on television, was over a hundred years and in a wheelchair. As I said before, voter restriction will make people more determined than ever to vote. It is the purging that must be stopped.

        • THS_Warrior

          Intelligent humans alive in 2013 will see the value in requiring some easy-to-acquire form of identification– like paper votor ID cards with or without photos– plus physical presence at some official voting poll during voting hours, coupled with provisional ballots being available and issued to all humans who show up naked and get in line at least 1 minute before the polls close.
          I advise all my clients, friends, family members– and even my worst political adversaries– to vote by absentee ballot to avoid all the drama at the polls.

    • johninPCFL

      Are you an 84yo resident of Missouri who was born in Alabama? No? Then you have no idea what you’re talking about.

      • tax payer

        Wow! You sure are old, so when do you intend to retire? You must be one of those that feels the company will go bankrupt, if you leave or retire.

        • johninPCFL

          1) I love what I do and feel no impetus to retire. I’m doing what most plan to do after retiring now (travel, etc.) while I’m able.
          2) The 84yo woman in question is an in-law by marriage. She was born outside Tuscaloosa at home and the doctor provided a certificate to register the birth at the courthouse. It was kept in the family bible and probably lost during the migration from Alabama to Missouri during the depression. There is no hope of replacing it. Under today’s ALEC laws she would not be allowed to vote.
          3) My father was born in Baltimore in 1921 and moved to FL in 1954, with his birth certificate. The hospital of his birth was torn down in the 1950s. We moved in 1968 and his certificate was lost. Fortunately it was not required to maintain his voter registration because he labored in vain to replace it for the rest of his life (he died in 1996.) Under today’s ALEC laws he would have been unable to vote for nearly 30 years.
          4) The laws in Texas contain some very specific requirements. For instance, when a woman marries and adopts her new husband’s name, her maiden name is listed on her driver’s license as her middle name (Texas state law from 1961.) Her voter registration card, on the other hand lists her middle name as her middle name. Since the two don’t match, she can only vote on a “provisional” ballot. Google “texas provisional ballot counting” and you get to the following text: “In the May 12 election, the county received 55 provisional ballots and all but eight were rejected.” So it seems like the new Texas state ALEC laws are designed to return Texas women to the 1890s where they could not vote.

          • tax payer

            I will stop voting after the Election we now have in Texas. At age 65 I feel it’s time to stop voting and let someone else get grey hairs trying to figure out which liar gets their vote.

          • johninPCFL

            You’re obviously and engaged citizen, so I think you’ll be driling a hole in a desk with your forehead right after the first election you don’t vote in! (yeah, I know, the grammar’s horrible)

          • tax payer

            I never check my grammar or the grammar of others as long as I can tell what that person is trying to get across to others.

          • idamag

            I wouldn’t even respond to that immature child if I were you.

          • johninPCFL

            He’s entitled to his opinion, and tossing a few facts his way costs me nothing.
            My feeling is that most GOP pols know that there have been fewer than 100 cases of voter fraud in the last several decades, but they have managed to convince their minions that it’s a huge problem. The fact that my direct family will have more folks disenfranchised than 2% of the total for the entire USA may open a few eyes as to how far the disenfranchisement goes.
            How many families are there in the USA? 75 million? So, to sum up the GOP logic: we’re going to stop 2 people per year from violating Federal law by voting illegally, people whose votes have not swayed a single election, ever, but to do so we’re going to stop tens of thousands of legal voters from voting in every election.

  • tax payer

    Why vote when all you are voting for is for people that won’t work for you. Obama is one person that won and what has he done for the American people? He does for the illegals more, so welcome to the new Mexico.

    • highpckts

      You knew ahead of time that the President wouldn’t work for you?? Who knew that Bush would practically bankrupt us?? Who knows any of this ahead of time! The GOP is trying for a sure thing and that is not how this Democracy works!

      • tax payer

        That’s why I voted against him twice. Call it a assumption, but I knew he wasn’t going to be there for us. People bankrupt themselves, if they don’t know how to manage money and the Government is doing the same thing by not knowing how to balance the books.

        • WhutHeSaid

          Yes, yes — he was black even back then, right? Must have been a simple decision for you. Come to think of it, I’m sure all of your decisions are simple.

          • tax payer

            I voted for the other two candidates because I have the Right to vote for whoever I want to cast my vote and color had nothing to do with my decision. You can think it was, but not in my book.

          • THS_Warrior

            Your pants are on fire.

          • tax payer

            No, they aren’t because I am at a Nudist Colony right now. It’s hard to type, when everyone is starring at you because no one else has their laptop with them.

          • nirodha

            Sweet jumpin’ old blue-eyed Jesus, that is one sick thought!!!

          • WhutHeSaid

            Excuse me, but if you aren’t wearing your pants how are people supposed to tell which end is your ass and which end is your face?

          • tax payer

            They have seen yours already and made a dash for it since it scared them away.

          • WhutHeSaid

            At least I wouldn’t leave them confused, as you do. I suppose that you get offered a lot of breath mints.

          • jmprint

            Can you explain why the Birch Society Mentality is the way to go. And why do you support it?

          • tax payer

            Never heard of it and I support only poor people, but not by choice.

          • jmprint

            Then you really need to study about what is driving the republican party. Poor poeple have been around before Jesus. It’s here it stay, that is why one should be greatfull that the Lord provides.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Your book must be about the art of lying in public.

          • tax payer

            I can tell you right now it’s not the Bible.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Certainly not. I’ll bet your hands would burst into flame if you handled the Bible. Satan must be very proud of you for all of your public lying, oh yes indeed.

          • tax payer

            Satan doesn’t believe in feeding the poor.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Although I agree that you probably know more about Satan’s beliefs than most people, I’m sure that he would feed the poor if doing so advanced evil in some way. At any rate, I’m sure that he has an especially hot pit and a personalized pitchfork ready just for you.

            Can’t you feel the heat already?

          • tax payer

            I can feel excitement this morning because my Longhorns won yesterday against TCU. Don’t you think people should try to improve their situation and not depend on others to feed their families. As you may know many children will do what their parents did while growing up and will think it’s normal for the tax payers to also feed their children as they move away, and start a family too. This is a cycle that is never broken in some families and the tax payers continue to pay, so others can eat or die of hunger.

          • WhutHeSaid

            I believe that given the opportunity, the vast majority of people will do just that. Very few people want to survive on food stamps, rather, they find themselves in a position where they have no choice.

            Greedy, selfish, lying deadbeats use complaints about poor people in an attempt to justify avoiding their responsibilities. Usually these same deadbeats have slurped up public benefits all their life. Greedy, selfish slugs are nothing new.

        • highpckts

          I hate to think where we would be if Romney and Ryan got in!! Now that would have been a true disaster!!

          • tax payer

            Democrats and Republicans would still be at it as they are right now.

          • THS_Warrior

            It feels strange to agree with tax payer about anything, but I gotta admit that he is right on this narrow point: regardless of who was elected president in 2008 or 2012, Democrats and Republicans would still be going at it.
            This dispute started on the night of December 12, 2000, when the SCOTUS stopped Florida’s lawful recount and declared George W Bush had won the presidency by a margin of 537 votes cast in the Florida election.
            Many of us here in Florida and elsewhere wanted to keep going, but restrained ourselves in the interest of keeping the peace. That travesty ended up clearing the way for America to elect the first non-white president in the history of this republic, a result well worth suffering in silence through the Bush years.

          • jmprint

            No, we would all be in line waiting for bread.

    • jmprint

      Or maybe just the old Mexico!

      • tax payer

        New ( Mexico ), because they came unwanted.

        • WhutHeSaid

          Who ever invited your family over here from your native shit-hole country? You should go back and stop slurping up public benefits and then lying about it. I’m sure the national IQ would rise a couple of points as soon as you slithered away too.

          • tax payer

            I believe someone in you own family gets these benefits, but you won’t admit it to anyone. I don’t get any benefits from the tax payers ( I have two good Pensions ) and that’s what every American should be doing, but it’s a shame we have too many lazy Americans that only know how to breed babies. I can’t feed my accidents ( children ), but these dumb workers can support my consequences is really ( what these people always say ) about the tax payers.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Why don’t you just stop your lying? I know that you snorted up all of the public benefits you could get your grubby little paws on, and there’s no reason to expect that you would suddenly change as you became the old crank that you are now. You collect Social Security and Medicare, now don’t you?

          • tax payer

            Yes, but as you know money was taken from my paychecks every payday to have those two ( Social Security & Medicare ) and the people on Food Stamps don’t pay to get that benefit. These people should only breed one or two children and not a dozen since they know we will have to feed them, and their children with our tax money. Those on Medicaid also didn’t pay to have Medicaid.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Just as I thought.

            So what you are saying is that you are jealous of people in poverty. I don’t hear you squealing about subsidies for Big Oil or huge farming operations, nor do I hear you caterwauling about spending as much of the rest of the world combined on military-related items and services. I also don’t hear you sniveling about the enormous expense that would be required to follow every pregnant woman around to ensure that you have control over her reproductive rights, although I’m sure you support such a thing. I’m pretty sure that you howl about requiring insurance to offer contraception coverage for the indigent, and become positively apoplectic about being unable to force your choices on women’s reproductive rights, but then (naturally) you endlessly simper about the cost of any resulting children.

            While the Social Security that you slurp up like a drunken aardvark is based upon what you pay into it, you and I both know that Medicare isn’t. So why aren’t you squealing about yourself? I see that you don’t mind wasting money one bit on voter ID laws that don’t solve any problems — I guess you don’t mind paying for bigotry.

            So the reality is that you’ve glommed onto the benefits of American society ALL YOUR LIFE — and still do — but you are too much of a cheapskate to be satisfied with paying your share like everyone else. I might add that your share is smaller than it’s ever been. Previous generations of Americans paid much more for all of the benefits you so ungratefully sucked up from society, yet you bitch and moan as if you were actually being called upon to do something special.

            Stop lying about poor people just because you are a miserable skinflint and they are easy to attack. If you are so worried about free-loaders, grow some balls and go after the REAL free-loaders — like the corporations making record profits and paying little or nothing in taxes.

          • tax payer

            Wow! You sure do get mad. I read your boring sentences twice and I still couldn’t figure out what you were telling me. Corporations hire people, so why are you so against them?

          • WhutHeSaid

            Of course you can’t understand my post because you wear ‘deadbeat goggles’. Anything that goes against your instinct to lie, cheat, and freeload becomes incomprehensible.

            I’m not against corporations at all, of course. I’m against corporations freeloading on the public’s dime.

          • tax payer

            i believe any woman( that’s not married ) should abort their mistake and that would save the tax payers Millions in Benefits.

          • WhutHeSaid

            I believe that you should butt of of a woman’s personal business. After all, you’re here — so mistakes do happen.

            Maybe you could make amends by paying back the current market value of all of the benefits you’ve slurped up from America over the years, issue a public apology for being an intolerable nitwit, and then self-deport.

          • tax payer

            I believe I am going to collect for about 30 more years and after I die someone can take my place, if they also paid into the system.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Just as I thought: YOU are the public-benefit-slurping, freeloading anchor-baby that you’ve been whining about all along!

          • tax payer

            I never told you I wasn’t getting Social Security, so where did you get that idea? Tell me are you going to get Social Security when you retire or are you going to work until the day you die. I retired, so I could enjoy life If you pay into Social Security you are telling me you won’t accept it since you think it’s not right to receive Social Security. Social Security isn’t Welfare and you know it. At least I don’t get Food Stamps. I have had it with you, so this is my last reply to you. Find someone else to bother because I am not responding to you anymore and I have done that to many people in many Blobs.

          • WhutHeSaid

            Um…that’s supposed to be ‘blog’ — not ‘blob’. The Blob was a horror movie from 1958. Kinda funny, actually.

            Anyway, I’m not surprised that you don’t get along with other posters either. Must be you sunny disposition, or perhaps your penchant for lying. Good luck with those asbestos bloomers; you’ll surely be glad to have them when the time comes.

            Toodles!

          • tax payer

            Right now I am quite happy since the Cowgirls lost. The announcers were already saying the Cowgirls have now won three in a row, so they sure were stupid in telling us that lie.

          • jmprint

            Coporation don’t make the money, the workers do, the corporations profit. Without employees they ain’t shit.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            You said: “Yes, but as you know money was taken from my paychecks every payday to have those two ( Social Security & Medicare ) ” However your party claims they are entitlements because you did not pay in nearly as much as you collect.
            You said: “These people should only breed one or two children and not a dozen since they know we will have to feed them,” Your party wants to force women to carry their pregnancy to term and have children they don’t want. Also your party disapproves of the use of contraceptives.
            I would rather my tax dollars go to pay for people who are hungry because they don’t earn enough to buy food and to have people receive medical care who can not afford it, than pay for Corporate Welfare, Oil and Farm Subsidies and the pay and benefits for a useless Congress.

          • tax payer

            So, who is stopping you from opening the door to your home, so you can feed all the poor people in your city. Condoms are a cheap way to protect from having unwanted babies. so why don’t these people buy a pack or two. I’ll tell you why. They use their money for cigarettes and alcohol, and expect the tax payers to feed their children. You have to realize they will always depend on the Government and the Government uses our tax money to make them happy.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            Do you go out and follow every person who is on government assistance and watch them guy cigarettes and alcohol? Why do you have such contempt for people? There are some who will take advantage and remain on the system, but the majority want a better life, want to stand on their own, but people like you help keep them down. You and people like you treat them like something on the bottom of their shoe because they don’t have a job that pays a livable wage. How about the people who were working hard and surviving but than Republican Economics and the financial world brought our economy crumbling down in 2008.

          • tax payer

            I ask a major store manager, if we could have separate lines for people that pay cash or a debit card and I was told those on SNAP would be ashamed to be in a line meant only for them. I have to stand in line behind them everytime I go to the store, so I see how they get their food free, but manage to have money for their cigarettes and alcohol. I don’t follow them because they are at the store daily.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            Tax Payer – I am confused by your post. I us a debit card and almost everyone I know uses a debit card and we are not on any Government assistance. The debit card is attached to my bank, we use it in place of writing out a check. So are you assuming that every person who uses a debit card is on Government assistance?

          • tax payer

            I want a line for those that pay cash or use their Debit Card, so you should know that’s what I said because a SNAP Card is not money they have in the bank. It’s money given to them for not being able to feed their consequences since they don’t bother to use a condom. I don’t understand how that confused you.

          • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

            The term “Debit Card” is not the same as a SNAP Card. If you meant SNAP Card than you should have said that. I know what a SNAP Card would represent, but you said Debit Card and that is why I did not understand. Tax payer I don’t know what turned you into such a mean old man but it is what it is and you have the right to your opinion.

          • kmkirb

            Hi tax payer,

            How are you today? Great for a Sunday I hope. Now, on to your comment, & this is where we will agree to disagree.

            As you already know I am a female. I also have that cell phone provided from Lifeline since I do not make enough money (combined) at my low wage job, nor do I make enough from my other ‘forced’ Independent Contractor job since so many places don’t want to hire these days as an employee.

            So now I not only get to pay my portion of my taxes, but all of those taxes now myself, (you know the half that’s matched by an employer), & I’m forced to have to list it as a business since my locale changed the rules in 2010 as a way for the state to drum up revenue, which means I have to purchase a business license & pay taxes on my personal property over & above the normal person.

            Hence, I am eligible to receive a lousy $19.00 per month on SNAP. That just about buys me a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread, a gallon of milk, a couple pieces of fruit or vegetables, & a small can of coffee. That’s about it. And I’m not allowed to buy a bar of soap to take a bath with, or shampoo to wash my hair, nor even toilet paper to wipe with. Try & find a job when you have no clean clothes, cant brush your teeth, or take care of hygiene, (& I’ve been saying that since I was 19 when I was employed & my roommate was not).

            Do you even know how the SNAP program works? Every 5 months you have to fill out a ton of paperwork proving all of your income & expenses in order to be approved in time for 6 more months. If anything changes, you have 10 days to notify them. And not all expenses are taken into account no matter how much it is (like rent/mortgage as they only allot so much no matter what).

            You have to provide all of your demographics, SS #, how many people live in the home, all sources of income, if you have any bank accounts & what’s in each, life insurance policies, 401k’s, retirement funds, pensions, if you’re collecting unemployment, SSDI, SSI, SS, Medicare/Caid, if you have any medical insurance, have student loans, if you’re attending school/college, do you have anyone else in the home, any renters/boarders in your home, how many children, list all your utilities, pay for daycare, own any real property & it’s worth, what car(s) you own & their worth as well as when purchased & current value, how much is paid in taxes in all forms (IRS, real, personal), do you own any other vehicles, (RV, trailer, boat, ATV, motorcycle/moped), a home/land & their worth, any tools for your business, any farming equipment, etc., etc. And because of my Independent Contractor status with my other job, I also have to provide monthly Profit & Loss Sheets.

            When April 15th rolls around, because I’ve not made enough to pay the IRS quarterly, I end up owing them another 250.00. I never get anything back anymore. Talk about nuts. I used to make $45,000.00+ a year, had all kinds of deductions, & usually received back anywhere from $2500.00 to $4000.00.

            So your remark about, “It’s money given to them for not being able to feed their consequences since they don’t bother to use a condom.”, is purely disgusting.

            I am almost 58 years old, I have no children, I was never able to get pregnant due to female problems so I was never blessed with kids, & I’ve paid taxes all these years, & still am, which makes me eligible to at least receive a lousy stinking $19.00 a month. My entire gross income last year was way below the poverty level. Less than $10,000.00. I’m already stretched to the limit now & can’t take on another job. There just aren’t enough hours in the day.

            And I don’t need someone telling me to change positions. I had a damn good career but lost it during the crash. They downsized me. I have never been able to get back on my feet for 2 reasons. When there was no money coming in, there was no money going out. I couldn’t stay personally responsible because no one was hiring, so I had to default on a couple bills. I had a credit score of 850 at the time. When I had to default, that tanked my credit. I do what I can. In my little bit of off time, I walk a friends dog, babysit their kids, & also volunteer to help out another friend with her small business of which I don’t get paid for that.

            Over 65% of employers these days check your credit report, simply so they can turn you down. If there were any correlation between a credit report and theft, then American CEO’s such as Bernie Madoff, Ken Lewis, Kenneth Lay, Dennis Kozlowski, Bernard Ebbers & Richard Fuld wouldn’t have ever been either under investigation or convicted for “stealing” millions & millions from their companies. The American elite & Congress operate by different rules when it comes to credit reports, corruption & stealing. The more corrupt they become, the better their credit reports get, while “the peoples” credit reports suffer to a point
            of never being allowed to work again. Seems our Bill of Rights & Constitution says differently, but who the hell pays attention to them anymore.?!! Everyone should be allowed the most basic of basics. Shelter, clothing, food, clean water, & healthcare.

            But I who have worked since I was 16 am now turned down due to a bad credit report because they say it reflects on my morals, character, & ethics. Effing hogwash. I’ve never been in trouble a day in my life, & my background report proves it. They are also using my age against me, but they won’t say that out loud since they know it’s against the law. And it’s not just happening to me. Almost half to 2/3 of my graduating high school class are in the same boat, as we’re all still very much connected in my little burg.

            This was all a cooked up scheme to make the rich richer while kicking us less deserving souls [people like me] under the bus. 17 years ago you never heard of someone checking your damn credit report for a job. SHRM [Society For Human Resource Management] & the 3 big credit bureaus cooked up this scheme. Follow the money tax payer.

            Originally a credit report was used strictly & only to see if you qualified for a mortgage. Then they started incorporating it into other loans, which is fine.

            But then they started using it to raise car insurance rates. Which they’ve done to me also. My car ins. used to cost me $55+ a month. Due to my now bad credit it is up to $80+ a month, & I have dropped several services off the policy, like towing, & car rental if I get in an accident. And now they’re using credit reports to deny people jobs. When it started 17 years ago about 15% of employers were doing it. As of 4 years ago that number had rose to 45%, & as I said it’s now over 65%.

            Do you even know how much a person pays towards SNAP from their taxes tax payer? A person who makes $50,000.00 a year & has one child, pays 10 cents per day in taxes for SNAP. That equals $36.82 annually one time per person. Here, check it out from a very conservative news source at that…

            http://www.examiner.com/article/a-person-making-50-000-a-year-pays-10-cents-a-day-taxes-for-food-stamps (July 28, 2012)

            And here’s a couple more resource links for you, one showing how much welfare has gone down since Clinton changed the rules…

            “Five Reasons Food Stamps Work Just Fine” (SEPTEMBER 26, 2013}
            http://prospect.org/article/five-reasons-food-stamps-work-just-fine

            “Welfare spending cut in half since reform” (August 9, 2012)
            http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/09/news/economy/welfare-reform/index.htm

            And BTW, statistically 1 in every 20 condoms springs a leak. No form of birth control in any manner is 100% full proof. You make it a wonderful Sunday tax payer, & thanks so much for your kind thoughts there up above.

          • tax payer

            You may know by now those I refer about are people that have children they know they can’t afford to support. Sure, there are single people that are barely making it. So, as you say you work and get nothing back as a Refund. If a person earns minimum wage they get back, what is taken out and now they also qualify for the EIC for being single.and earning less than $13,950.00. In your case you qualified for $306.00 ( no children ) plus whatever was taken out as Federal Tax. You were entitled to a Refund of over $306.00 or more. I have no idea, if there is an age requirement to qualify for the EIC. You are almost 58, so I hope you qualify for the EIC. I hope you understand my thoughts are about people that make it a living ( living off the tax payers ) and never intend to better themselves.

          • kmkirb

            I do not qualify for EIC tax payer. This is another way the system was set up to screw me. If I am single, I can get it. If I am married filing jointly, I can get it. But since my spouse & I are estranged, I have to file married filing separately, so I am not allowed.

            My CPA thought the same thing. He put me down for EIC 2 years ago. Within 9 days I got a letter from the IRS telling me that due to me not being eligible they redid my taxes & I owed them almost $600.00. I took out their little 4 month extension, & instead of being able to purchase what little I can afford, I had to pay them $150 a month to get it gone. By the time the 4 months had rolled around, with interest & late fees, it was almost $650 bucks.

            And sometimes, no matter how much some of these people want to better themselves, due to our economic environment of the past few years, there is just no escape. No living wages, cost of everything else on the rise, the big banks robbed & pillaged millions of people out of their pensions, 401k’s, homes, & more. But if you read the links I gave you, welfare is down over half since Clinton overhauled the Welfare law.

            Sure, I understand where you might be coming from, but everyone wants to lump everyone together. People are fighting the ACA, & fighting pro choice, but yet don’t want these women to receive birth control.

            Sorry, I don’t care who anyone is. We all have our needs, & sexual health is part of those needs. It’s been proven over & over again it is part of being human, being alive, & staying healthy. If that weren’t the case, they’d have never invented pumps or little blue pills for men.

          • jmprint

            Definition of TAXPAYER: ME, ME, ME it’s all about Me.

          • jmprint

            This is America, let’s keep it that way.

  • THS_Warrior

    At the risk of angering many of my over-zealous progressive friends who would support universal sufferage without requiring proof of brain activity, I am going out on a limb to say that there is some measure of sanity in not allowing all people with demonstrable handicaps (above the neck and between their ears) or having extremely low IQs to cast ballots in all elections. However, any such rule or exclusionary laws must be perfectly non-discriminatory in all respects so that brain-dead conservatives and Democrats are treated with equal disregard by humans capable of identifying them.

    • nirodha

      Were that truly the case, THS, it could be a good thing. Such a requirement would necessarily preclude people like Michele Bachmann, Louie Gohmert, Herman Cain and the like (there are plenty of others, mostly on their side of the aisle) from voting, never mind holding any form of public office! ‘Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished!

      • THS_Warrior

        I agree. And the beauty of such a law is that dis-enfranchising stupid people cannot be seen as being discriminatory because stupid goes everywhere.

        • nirodha

          I have long maintained that there should be some kind of practical test to determine if candidates for national office can read, write and understand what we used to call civics, social studies, history of the U.S., government 101 and how the legal system functions. I strongly feel that there are some people currently in Congress who are not qualified, by even these minimal standards, to be there.

          • THS_Warrior

            FYI, the honorable Senator Bob Graham, former Democratic governor of Florida and former senior Senator from Florida is still alive and well, heavily involved in private efforts to require all states receiving federal dollars for education and all school districts receiving federal dollars for education to teach Civics to all students by requiring it as a condition of graduation.
            Google Bob Graham civics education

          • nirodha

            Good for him! And thank you, I will check it out.

          • idamag

            And Sandra Day O’Connor (R), former Supreme Court Justice made that statement recently.

          • THS_Warrior

            The Truth transcends pollitical boundaries and is always the Truth, regardless of who recognizes it. That is the genesis of the wise old saw about stopped clocks being right– twice a day.

        • idamag

          The problem with that is a return of the literacy tests where polling personnel chose who to give the test to.

      • idamag

        We have to blame the voters for those gross mistakes. It seems they have evolved to a point and are not going down the other side and the descent is faster than the ascent was.

  • elw

    If you want to know what the ID laws are for you should go and view the Wednesday evening show of the Daily Show. There is a interview with a Republican precinct leader who quiet clearing states that there are about 2 cases of voter fraud a year in his precinct and that the real purpose of the laws are to “hurt the Democrats.” He ended up losing his job over what he said. It is funny and one of the times when the “pretend news” on the Daily show become more real then they intended. Link below

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/collection/429981/voter-restriction/429896

    • Snowbeard

      Are we seeing a resurgence of the old Union of South Africa’s Afrikaners? Do we now have a group of Amerikaners here in America? Or have they always been around but now have some power?

      • elw

        I think they have always been around and just have been encouraged by the Tea Party rhetoric and the political power they have gotten through the Republican Party. Power that is fast disappearing.

        • idamag

          They were always there and now have a wagon to jump on.

      • Mark Forsyth

        They are the same old fashioned racist rednecks that they have always been.They wear different banners and names from time to time but their overall stance remains the same.Read up on the history of the KKK.The membership and activity has fluctuated over the years but it never completely dies.Kinda like rust,racial hatred never sleeps.

      • Lynnette Gentry

        I Say Hitler Loving Nazis!!

  • gvette

    Let’s see, voter fraud. just for shits, and grins, go read this.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/295203/democrats-election-forgery-racket-michelle-malkin

    • sandrajeanford

      As soon as I saw it was Michelle Malkin I knew it was going to be bullchit but wow, the outright lies and things just made up out of thin air….there ought to be a law against being able to publish this outright crap.

      • gvette

        Funny, she deals in facts, and Barry tells lies. You are the epitome of a democrat!

        • nirodha

          Here we go again! Don’t you ever have an original thought? Haven’t you got something, anything NEW to say? This is the same tired old crap that you always post. Why don’t you try to define “liberal” for us again? Go on back to your automotive shop and fix something.

          • gvette

            Yes, I was just rading where that tramp Moochell’s classmate is

            an executive at CGI, the folks that got the no bid contract for the usless Barry care web site. That should piss you aholes off, but it won’t. Cronie capitalism, don’t you assshole just hate that, or is it just when a republican does it? I’ll wait for your usless answer.

          • WhutHeSaid

            My, but your are so tense today! Allow me to offer you some soothing words of solace:

            Obama is your leader. He’ll be your leader for 3 more years. And…

            He’ll be black the WHOLE TIME!!

            (hee-hee!)

          • gvette

            LOL…what a shame!

          • easton

            man, are you boring.

  • Bill

    And the GOP courts say everything is OK, when will people wake up and see that these practices help no one.

  • J, Dial

    WHEN are the news media going to publicize another very serious, unpublicized problem with the Tex voter ID law? Even if you have a photo i.d. the name on it must match EXACTLY to your voter registration card. So if a woman has a maiden plus last name on driver’s license, and true middle name on voter registration card, she’ll have to fill out form and the ballot cast will be provisional — not good til checked out by elections officials. That’s the case for more women than many realize. And even my husband has his middle name spelled out on one, and not the other (just the middle initial), Our county Elections Office says that won’t pass muster. This has got to be publicized. If the national media would break the story then there’s no doubt what Texas is doing — voter suppression of minorities AND women.

    • nirodha

      And I wonder what the party affiliation of those county elections officials could be? It wouldn’t, no, couldn’t be republican, could it?

  • tax payer

    Hunting Bear.is that you?

  • Richard Buker

    You liberals are full of shit…i live in Indiana and it is simple to get an i.d. Piece of cake!
    Gotta have an ID to buy alcohol, get in rated R movie, to drive, to buy tabbaco…but to elect our leaders it’s disenfranchisement ,what a freakin joke!

    • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

      Those examples you listed are privileges not Constitutional Rights.

      • Bryan Blake

        There must be a Republican copy of The Constitution. The last time I looked up the definition of “privileges” it included fundamental rights guaranteed to the citizens of a country by its constitution. Privileges even protect the willfully ignorant among us – see the Fifth Amendment. When full citizenship was at last granted to African-American males the franchise was, by implication, included. When Women won their right to vote it was and is explicitly enshrined in the Constitution. So yes, the right to vote is a Constitutional Right. Despite Republican Spin and self-delusion there is NO OTHER interpretation available than to vigorously defend EVERY CITIZEN’S right to vote!

        • disqus_fsqeoY3FsG

          I agree we should vigorously defend every citizen’s right to vote and I believe there are Republicans who would agree and it is time they speak out.

    • aftermidnight

      People who are a lot smarter than you and who implemented these laws, know darn well they are aimed at voter disenfranchisement.

  • Bryan Blake

    The Founders in The Constitution did not enshrine universal franchise as a basic right of citizenship. The Founders, by and large, were elitists and did not trust those that they viewed as “the unruly mob”. Inclusion of non freeholder white males, males of other races (i.e. African-American males) and women would not be had except by defeating the Southern Insurrection and the long nonviolent struggle by women to win their inherent right to vote. Thomas Jefferson saw the franchise as the way to protect the rights given all under The Founding Documents. He saw it as the way to protect us from the takeover of our government by those who desire to deny us of our basic rights and use the government for their own benefit.

    The XV Amendment prohibits the denial of rights based upon race. The XIX Amendment prohibits the denial of the right to vote based upon gender. Both Amendments place the power to remedy such denials with Congress. The recent reactionary Roberts’ Court decision to gut the Voting Rights Act was not only unconstitutional in and of itself but was a clear usurpation of the powers of Congress under said Amendments.

    The modern Republican Party, under the tutelage and money of rich and ultra-rich political activists of the 1%, is actively implementing the perversion of the very ideas of Jefferson and others about the franchise. These nefarious billionaires are in the midst of an active, but legal, revolution to destroy our democracy and deny the rights of We The People. It is not a coincidence that these Neo-Confederate voter denial acts are springing up in so many states. Growing up in Texas during the end of the formal era of Jim Crow this crap is all too familiar. Except now they are explicitly targeting Women. Of course women are their favorite target in the Congress and many state legislatures. This is in keeping with the gender priorities of the constituents of their strongest base: the extreme right wing Christians. This part of their base is male-centric and believes that women should be subservient to their husbands upon marriage and their fathers prior to marriage. In our emerging nation of a majority of minorities the fact that women are the majority gender screams out in neon voices the end of white male power and dominance.

    Because these powerful white males can clearly see the end of their reactionary political ideology and use of the various level of governments to oppress We The People this is their last desperate attempt to extend their hold on to power. The rich and ultra-rich want to set in concrete an economy that works only for them and destroy our democracy and the rights and remedies of We The People. They own the Federal Judiciary. They control the US House through money funneled into the hate-fueled elections of 2010. They believe that they are on the verge of total victory. By shutting off the only rightful nonviolent route to maintain our republic they believe that We The People cannot stop them.

    Our answer is to rise up through the vote. To show up on election day even if they will not allow us to vote. To harrass them, to demonstrate against them and tell everyone we know the truth about what the Republicans are doing and for whom they are doing it for!

    • jmprint

      Lovely.

      • ozzy mo

        A lot if rambling to say, it doesn’t matter to you if someone votes 2 or 3 times…Or an illegal alien votes…See I summed it up for u in a couples of sentences.

        • jmprint

          The difference between you and me is that I read the whole article and understood what it said. By your statement I can tell you didn’t read it.

        • plc97477

          Reading is not one of your strong points I see.

          • ozzy mo

            I read extremely well! But my brain can weed out the crap and get to the bare bones of the subject. I don’t know of anyone that has been prevented from voting. And I highly doubt that you know of any as well. What is the harm in asking for proof of who you are when voting? You need an ID to register vehicles, enter Government buildings, Cash checks, sign-up for government benefits, etc…But if u ask for ID to vote, all hell breaks loose…

          • kmkirb

            All those things that you mentioned you need an ID for basically depicted as privileges, & not rights which are constitutionally protected. Voting is a right provided by the Constitution. Huge difference.

            And while you might not know anyone personally that has been prevented from voting, there are plenty of people out here that it’s happening to. You can read about them here…

            “Think Getting “Free” ID Is Easy? Think Again!”
            http://www.lawyerscommittee.org/page?id=0046

            And then there’s this…

            “Everything You’ve Ever Wanted to Know About Voter ID Laws” (Nov. 5, 2012)
            http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws/single#republish

          • ozzy mo

            All I can say is get used to the idea…Because all states will eventually require it. But, It will be ok…I promise!!

          • kmkirb

            Quite obvious from the time frame, you didn’t even read a word. When legal citizens cannot do their civic duty, then NO it will NOT be OK!

          • ozzy mo

            I m sure they will survive…If the democrats had not began to take advantage of the lax oversight on voter precincts…thus allowing multiple voting by people, dead people voting, and other’s votings for people (who were too sick to make the trip to the polls) then we wouldn’t be having this discussion!

          • kmkirb

            Keep on your with imaginary tales & stuck in the mud limiting beliefs. If the Republicans would quit trying to disenfranchise voters by committing voter registration fraud, & hiring people like Nathan Sproul over the years, like they did again last year, & then had to fire him & quickly try to distance themselves from him, plus coming out constantly & admitting they’re disenfranchising people, then & only then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/us/politics/nathan-sproul-a-republican-operative-long-trailed-by-voter-fraud-claims.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

            And especially since all of these Voter ID laws have been proven unconstitutional in courts of law all across the nation, including in TX last year by the DOJ.

            Amazing that when my folks & my grandparents passed away, my county knew it. It was listed in the court records & their names were no longer listed on the voting rolls, so all of these claims of dead people voting are nothing but GOTP BS lies.

            Most vote fraud is committed by absentee ballot, not in-person voting. The stats are less than 1% on both sides of the aisle for anyone trying to commit in-person voter fraud. So you really know someone who knows hundreds of people who are willing to gather as an army to take the day off work & go around from poll to poll trying to vote, risking their livelihoods by committing a felony, & would take thousands upon thousands of votes in order to sway the outcome one way or the other? I don’t just doubt it, I know it isn’t true.

            Sure is sweet though to know that the GOP delegates went after the RNC last year in election fraud allegations for intimidating, threatening, stalking, & acts of violence against the delegates for not being able to vote their conscience.

            “GOP Delegates Revolt Against Romney & RNC” (Wednesday, June 13, 2012)…
            http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/13/47402.htm

            And then just 2 days later 40 more Delegates jumped on board & joined the previous 123 plaintiffs…

            “More Delegates Want to Join Repub Revolt” (Friday, June 15, 2012)… http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/15/47495.htm

            Guess you missed the jerk that resigned after being on the Daily show where he admitted it’s about disenfranchising voters, or this story right here on NM where 7 more GOTP admit it…

            “6 Other Times Republicans Admitted Voting Restrictions Are Just About Disenfranchising Democrats”

            http://www.nationalmemo.com/6-other-times-republicans-admitted-voting-restrictions-are-just-about-disenfranchising-democrats/

            I bet you’d sure be singing a different tune though if we came after your 1st & 2nd amendment rights. Protected Constitutional rights are protected Constitutional rights. You can’t pick & choose.

          • ozzy mo

            Shouldn’t 99 % of the nation already have an ID? So why freak out about 1% that may have a little hardship (ACCORDING TO YOU) getting one.

          • kmkirb

            Like I said, you didn’t read the articles. They wrote them , I didn’t.

          • BillP

            Why reply to these ring wing trolls. On the issue of voter fraud these trolls never point out that the actual number of voter fraud cases is infinitesimal. One case I was told of involved a woman who voted twice – once on an absentee ballot and then on Election Day. Was it accidental or fraudulent? There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in this country so why this urgent drive for voter I’d requirements?

        • Allan Richardson

          Which is more important to you philosophically and morally: to prevent “bad” votes at the cost of suppressing “good” voters, or the opposite, to allow a few “bad” votes in order to ensure the rights of “good” voters?

          Idamag gave his honest opinion to that question; what is yours?

          • ozzy mo

            To ensure all votes are legal and legit…and it easily accomplished by requiring voter ID!!! Hard thing to comprehend I see!!

  • tax payer

    I don’t understand how anyone can talk like some people and than say God this, and God that. Hypocrites is all I can think off.

    • nirodha

      Just remember, TP, there is no god and he is always with you.

  • Ben G.

    Well, this article wasn’t suprising! The Repubican party has for a long time now (since president Nixon) been taken over by theocrats that want this free country be a theorocracy. What better way to do that then by suppress votes of people that will vote democratic? In the state that has always picked the winner in a presidential election since, coorect me if I am wrong, the winner since the election of president Roosevelt? What are they going to do next try to rig elections? We got to stop them immediately!

  • tax payer

    Imagine, everyone working in a good paying job. We would have no need for Welfare, but that’s not ever going to happen in this lifetime as long as we have lazy people living in this country.

    • WhutHeSaid

      So do something about it, you Social-Secuity-slurping, Medicare-snorting anchor baby — self deport to whatever hell-hole you came from. America will be grateful.

  • John Pigg
  • ozzy mo

    Why does it ruffle the feather’s of the left to require someone to prove who they are. You have to have ID to register a vehicle, enter a government building, get a DL, get a SS card, get your SS check, get unemployment, cash a check, open a savings account, rent an apartment, buy a car, etc…but ask them to furnish one to vote and they act like you are taking away their civil rights, we all know the reason they don’t want this law passed in all states.. Then the dead and the illegals, and the dishonest won’t be able to vote multiple times….Does Ohio ring a bell?

  • jointerjohn

    This illustrates another good reason for women to discontinue the ridiculous and medieval practice of changing their names upon marriage. Be yourself, who you were born to be, we are way past the time when the only thing we valued about you was which man you belonged to at the present time. Married surnames are a relic of servitude.

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