By Joe Conason

If Republicans Love Competition, Why Do They Still Hate Obamacare?

July 19, 2013 12:03 am Category: Memo Pad, Politics 93 Comments A+ / A-
If Republicans Love Competition, Why Do They Still Hate Obamacare?

When asked what makes the world work, any self-respecting right-wing Republican knows the politically correct answer: competition! (With at least one exclamation point.) It is the paramount principle and universal solvent perennially touted by the right to cure whatever ails us – in the abstract.

What they don’t seem to like so much, in reality, is the competitive impact of the Affordable Care Act, which is forcing health insurance companies into a contested marketplace – and seems to be driving down rates, state by state. The latest data arrived this week from New York, where insurance regulators announced that the new rates approved for 2014 will be 50 percent lower, on average, than current rates.

That stunning report follows similar news from California, where rates may drop by as much as 29 percent, as well as Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont and several other states where the early indications show rates declining. Based on data compiled from 10 states and the District of Columbia, the Department of Health and Human Services says that 2014 premiums for mid-range (or “silver”) health care plans in those states will be nearly 20 percent lower on average than its own earlier estimates.

The reason is simple, as anyone familiar with the American health care marketplace knows. Most states until now have had no meaningful competition among insurance companies — and certainly nothing like the health insurance “exchanges” created by Obamacare to guide consumer choices.

In states that have actively promoted the exchanges, real competition is arising thanks to a marketplace that allows consumers to examine and understand choices, plans, and prices with ease. “That’s a very different dynamic for these companies, and it’s prodding them to be more aggressive and competitive in their pricing,” explains Sabrina Corlette, a research professor at Georgetown University’s Center on Health Insurance Reform.

For those of us who preferred (and still favor) a single-payer system providing Medicare to everyone, the compromises of Obamacare always provoked doubts about efficiency and fairness. Many liberals supported the Affordable Care Act reluctantly as a bad deal that was acceptable only in lieu of no deal.

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If Republicans Love Competition, Why Do They Still Hate Obamacare? Reviewed by on . When asked what makes the world work, any self-respecting right-wing Republican knows the politically correct answer: competition! (With at least one exclamatio When asked what makes the world work, any self-respecting right-wing Republican knows the politically correct answer: competition! (With at least one exclamatio Rating:

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Comments

  • AlfredSonny

    What is the MAIN reason why GOP wants to repeal Obamacare?
    Why is the industry, in general, against Obamacare?
    Pre-existing conditions keep employees hostage and non-competitive to their abusing employers for the fear of not being able to get health insurance coverage else where!

    • Lorr

      Pre-existing is huge. I was working when I first found out I was sick. My employer was paying approximately 350/month for my health care coverage. I was terminated 10 months later after 5 years with the company. I had Cobra for 18 months and paid the same premium my employer paid. However, when that ran out – no insurance company would even return my calls. I went to the company who insured me while I was employed and they said yes at a rate of $1,208/month. My income was $1,500/month.

      • Dominick Vila

        I had similar experiences. One of my grandsons is severely handicapped and was denied insurance coverage because of his pre-existing condition, which required extensive medical care when he was a child. Today, thanks to President Obama’s decision, he is insured and does not have to beg for alms to get the care he needs.
        When I joined MEDICARE a decade ago, I had to get COBRA for my wife, who is a lot younger than me. I paid $700 for coverage that only covered catastrophic situations.
        My eldest son started a new business a few months ago. He is type 1 diabetic and needs medical care to survive. When he applied for COBRA he found out that the premium for individual coverage was $1,300 a month, and over $3,000 a month for a family plan.
        One of my grandsons is a chef, and so is his wife. Their employer offers healthcare insurance coverage. The premium for each of them is $700 a month. Since they can’t afford it, they have to go without it and keep their fingers crossed.
        Incredibly, these are the circumstances Republicans are determined to fight for. The only excuse I can make for them is that I didn’t realize that are so many millionaires in the USA.

        • angelsinca

          Republicans aren’t determined to ‘fight for’ eliminating pre-existing condition coverage. At this point, the ACA monstrosity is so deeply flawed, it’s just easier to trash the entire thing and COOPERATIVELY issue a healthcare plan that will address those positive things such as pre-exting conditons that ought to be implemented. The only thing about the ACA that ‘Obama decided’ was to use a different pen for each letter of his signature on the bill.

          • irishtap

            Easier to trash the entire thing, huh? Easier for whom angelsinca? The Affordable Care Act is for the most part, only a dusted off plan – written at a right-wing think tank (Heritage Foundation) to be put forth as legislation against Clinton’s ‘single payer plan’ – if it had been necessary. It wasn’t since the Republican/Insurance industry, used disinformation/fear mongering to snuff ‘single payer’. Is ACA flawed? Well – hell yes, because it’s was written by Republicans. I assume you were being facetious when you mentioned the word “cooperation”, since that simply ‘ain’t gonna happen’ – If the GOP can’t even get in front of a bill written by their own – there is no chance in hell of them compromising on legislation even half written by Democrats. While I know it’s only a starting point with necessary adjustments to follow – I’m glad it was passed, because as it turns out it’s been more positive than not thus far. But. I sure laughed like heck when the Democrats shoved the GOP’s own plan down their throats, ooohh man that was great!

          • angelsinca

            “Democrats shoved the GOP’s own plan down their throats”.

            Blaming the rumored source of the ACA still doesn’t correct ANY of its flaws. Congratulations should be offered since Democrats are now finally admitting the scheme is flawed, But, not without predicting a future where the GOP won’t allow for a better plan. You won’t allow it to be fixed. Great set of excuses to avoid doing the right thing.

          • irishtap

            The origins of ACA have GOP roots, going back to 89′. There exist an ocean of documentation to quell any “rumor” notion you apparently need to cling to. Perhaps you should write the retired Republican Majority Leader Senator Bob Dole for clarification on that point. By suggesting the Democrats “won’t allow it to be fixed”; is another exercise in right-wing ‘elephant dung’. The final version of ACA was modeled on the plan Romney signed into law in Massachusetts – which at the time he heralded as a “model for the country”. Only when running for president did ‘he in cowardly form’ chide the very same legislation, he himself was an advocate of, when he was governor. Romney had countless opportunities to voice up “all the terrible aspects of Obamacare” he would make changes to – but NEVER delved into the minutiae, but never did – because he couldn’t! Romney took hypocrisy to another strata with that one, But I digress – he is after all a Republican. You aren’t allowed to have integrity when running for high office in that cult. Your side resides under a veil of willful ignorance, ineptitude and the dark side of humanity when it comes to getting something done about ‘health care’ in this country. The symbol of the GOP should be the ‘barricade’ since they put roadblocks in place to divert progress at every opportunity. Even before the road is built. At least show the elephant wearing ear plugs. For you to suggest for a millisecond your party was ever on board in helping ordinary Americans attain affordable health care in any way, shape or form, only succeeds in exposing you as brainwashed.

          • angelsinca

            Romney has since recanted the healthcare plan in Mass as a failed experiment. Yes, the GOP are an obstacle to the out-of-control meaderings of the Democrats. If it wasn’t for the break up of the Democrat supermajority in the 2010 mideterms, we’d likely already be applying for national insolvency. Republicans will happily take blame from the left for obstructing them. Sorry Irish, but you’ve bought into Obama’s deceptions more so than the supposed ‘brainwashing’ by the GOP.

          • irishtap

            Romney is nothing but an unethical opportunist and inveterate liar – the program is by and large, doing just fine. The rest of your “reply” is standard ineloquent GOP circumlocution. Your party is dead…and the filthy squalor that remains is dedicated to the demise of representative government. Your only a sad ghost angel – time to walk toward the light.

          • angelsinca

            You just quoted Romney as saying he supported the Mass. plan, now he can’t be quoted. Make up your mind, Irish. If Democrats had their way, they would regain supermajority status so no one can oppose them. Doesn’t sound much like representative government. I know, that’s the DNC’s plan.

          • irishtap

            I’m beginning to think your integrity is circumspect angel – that or the ol’ brain stem is misfiring “selectively” – a troublesome condition you folks suffer from. Romney was all for it – until it became a political liability – you know damn well that’s what I meant. If the guy could have been elected by calling out his father as having been a communist – he certainly would have, as Mitt’s ego and fragile relationship with the truth sought to play any card that may bring political gain. Go to the light angel – the truth and enlightenment await you there. RIP

          • angelsinca

            “I’m beginning to think your integrity is circumspect”

            Not that wishing death on your political opposites is above the fray, Irish. When you selectively use Romney’s quotes to support pro-ACA propaganda, your integrity is doubtful. When all else fails, attack the character and ability to reason. Toss in a few names to suit yourself. Typical, predictable, liberal.

          • irishtap

            ‘Wishing you dead’? Seriously? Hey angel, I’m a democrat whom realizes we need more than one political party if this experiment in self government is to continue. Your party committed ‘SUICIDE” in inviting the plethora of idiocy and radical – inhumane “Christian” whack jobs into the fold. You and me will never agree on much I’m sure, but all this back and forth proves one thing angel – it is possible to communicate with the dead.

          • angelsinca

            I misunderstood your placement of me on the ‘other side’. I’ve had a few close calls, but I’m not dead yet-I have a pulse.

            The Republican party isn’t dead, much to the chargrin of the left and yourself. The precariousness of your own party ought to be a bigger concern than the desire for a failed GOP.

            The TEA party changed the GOP in a way that enabled a breakup of the Democrat supermajority. The few rogue extremists that came along with the TP movement aren’t representative of the conservative base, despite the proclamations of the left. Yet they are supported by the conservative base over the liberal agenda. Ask anyone on the right; they’d rather take in a TEA party ‘whacko’ than a liberal ‘loon’ anyday.

            With 80% of Americans calling themselves ‘Christians’, the left might want to re-examine its attack methodology toward the Christian. A strong religious belief system seems to carry more passion and voter support than a vocal left that wants to challenge that base.

            The right has a higher authority it believes is on its side. The left has itself believing it is smarter than those that believe in ‘fairy tales’. Good luck with that. Cheers

          • irishtap

            I guess it’s time to call the “Ghostbusters” this angel spirit keeps haunting me. Christian huh? That reprehensible cult of sociopaths aka Tea Party is as close to Christ as the pebble in my shoe resembles the Swiss Alps. Those Godless unpatriotic parasites are steadfast negative about any sensible program that helps anyone in the slightest humane aspect of life. Very Christ like. Attacking Christians?! What I speak against is, those son’s of bitches that claim to live a Christ filled life while taking the food out of the mouths of poor kids! Tea Party slime who’ve had great success in putting farm subsidy cash into their pockets – and will do ANYTHING to end any program that will even slightly benefit the poor or middleclass! You’re nothing but another demented radical angel, ya got nothing. As for the ‘fairytale’ thing I can honestly report I don’t put much stock into them though many offer a profound life lesson, though they’d certainly be lost on you. Conversely, I will admit to believing in the reality of nightmares – you and your deceased GOP have left us nothing but a continuous horror show.

          • angelsinca

            Irish, not like you to sink to personal insult. If I see a TP memeber, I’ll pass the word you don’t like them. Would love to chat my with you, the superior noteworthy, but I must locate some children and poor people to starve. Sheesh. I understand hate. I understand hate based on misperceptions. I will never understand how a president can dupe so many people. Not suprisingly, they are all on the left. Cheers! (boo!)

          • MJRinPA

            “At this point, the ACA monstrosity is so deeply flawed, it’s just easier
            to trash the entire thing and COOPERATIVELY issue a healthcare plan
            that will address those positive things such as pre-existing conditons
            that ought to be implemented”
            AND YET – the TP/GOP/Republicans have offered NOTHING as a substitution for the ACA. They want to repeal the health care act but offer nothing, let alone being cooperative about issuing a healthcare plan. Let’s leave the ACA standing while working on improvements or a replacement. It’s definitely better than the nothing that the conservatives aren’t offering.

    • charleo1

      Well, I thought we were protecting our freedom, and liberty, by fighting
      Socialism? And how is the greatest boon to mankind, going to survive
      all the costs of health insurance? I’m speaking of Walmart, of course!
      Why are the Democratic Liberals trying to kill one America’s premier
      small businesses? I don’t think it’s too much to ask of Americans to
      subsidize a few hundred thousand part time employees with food stamps,
      public housing, child care, WIC, and millions of uncompensated visits
      to ER rooms across this great Country of ours, to keep our Country 100%
      Capitalistic!

      • Lynda Groom

        I hope you understand that most of Europe is considered to be under a capitalistic system…even with health care for its citizens.

      • AlfredSonny

        My dear friend, do you know who compensate ER for the services they provided to uncompensated visitors? Taxpayers! Without Obamacare, we pay higher premiums including excessive administrative costs to the insurance carriers PLUS additional taxes to cover these ERs. If Republicans want to “replace” Obamacare, where is it, again, my dear friend.

        • charleo1

          I was only towing the GOP Party line of worship, to all that
          is corporate. If it is done in the private sector, if is good.
          If it is done by the government it is bad. That is all I know.
          With each point that is made for which I have no answer.
          Like, when taxes are bad, when spent on free healthcare.
          Are good when spent subsidizing Walmart’s payroll. Or,
          insurance cos. telling Americans they won’t sell them ins.
          is fine. But the government telling ins. cos. they must sell
          ins. is awful. And those that have no ins. must buy some
          so as to be responsible, and keep taxes that are bad, from
          going up, paying these people’s bills, is also bad. I have no
          logical answers at this time. But I’m sure it will all make sense,
          just as soon as the Party message center clears all this up.

          • angelsinca

            “I was only towing the GOP Party line of worship, to all that
            is corporate.”

            You pretend to, but still don’t understand the GOP or conservativism. I am not the one to break through your preconceptions. Suggest the books, ‘Republicans’ and its companion, ‘Democrats’ for better understanding why half the nation strongly disagrees with your assessment of the GOP.

          • charleo1

            Speaking of the GOP. I can only go by what they support.
            Not what they say they support. Or some promoter claims they support. They used to be big on personal responsibility. Mitt Romney was for withholding drivers licenses, until people bought into the State’s insurance plan. Now, that’s a big
            government outrage! They claim they are for small, non
            intrusive gov’t. That Constitution, and individual Rights
            are being violated. Then, they come in, and make a woman
            undergo a medical procedure, she neither wants, or needs,
            because, one they don’t agree with SCOTUS, and feel the
            State has every right to interfere here, on moral grounds.
            They see the State as having every right to inject itself there
            as well. They also claim to be Christians. But punishing the children for what they see as the woman’s failings, is okay.
            That a 2 billion dollar cut per year in food to the poor, is too small. Like the additional 10% cut in taxes for corporations
            is also too small. So, I watch what they do, not what they
            claim they do.

          • angelsinca

            “Mitt Romney was for withholding drivers licenses, until people bought into the State’s insurance plan. Now, that’s a big
            government outrage! ”

            Sounds like a reasonable way to make sure only legal residents use the public services. ID isn’t anymore intrusion than providing an unforged birth certificate and using your social security number.

            “… they come in, and make a woman
            undergo a medical procedure, she neither wants, or needs..”

            Not sure what you are trying say here that the GOP is supposed doing tooward women.

            Charlie01, it’s not like you to change the subject to abortions, religious makeup, punished children, starving hordes and corporate gifts to demonstrate you don’t understand why conservatives hate Obamacare. It’s flawed.

          • charleo1

            You don’t understand what I’m saying? Well, read the first
            line. It tells you, I don’t believe GOP policies match their
            principals. Then, I gave you some examples. You never
            heard then? Romney’s suggestion that the privilege of driving
            should be withheld, until the person could provide proof they
            were enrolled in the State’s mandatory health insurance
            program. It had nothing to do with ID, the insurance
            they have to buy in MA. is from a private co. There’s no
            public services involved. He said, if they don’t buy in, as
            in, if they don’t pay their child support, or have car insurance, we take their license. It was the Dems in MA that thought
            that idea was too tough. And now what do they say about
            the mandate?
            All due respect. And I mean that, angelsinca, if you’ve
            gotten busy, and haven’t kept up with how much the policies
            they passed into law, just a few years ago, differ from things
            the GOP supports today. You need to take a look. You my
            not have understood what I wrote. But, it’s the truth, just the
            same.

          • angelsinca

            Romney was a republican in a liberal state that had an ID reqmnt for its healthcare mandate. This isn’t a current example of present ‘GOP policy not matching its principles’. and hardly seems like ill intent by the GOP.

            The current policies that matter are speaheaded by the president. Problem is, less than 40% approve of where the Democrat leadership is presently steering the country.

            I am sitting with my eyes wide open. I see the GOP portrayed by Democrats in a light that only makes them look bad. Ironically, this only dilutes hope for cooperation with the DNC due to its antagonism of the conservative constituency for basic things like religious beliefs, or how to pay for social programs, etc.

          • angelsinca

            “You don’t understand what I’m saying? ”

            Well, no I have no idea what procedures women are being forced into doing by the GOP. I do know I am being forced to subsidize abortions.

    • irishtap

      Bingo!

  • Eleanore Whitaker

    Few employees on employer healthcare insurance plans have choice. The employers choose the plan and the plan administrators. All with their bottom line in mind. This has crashed. Big, big, big time. The end result of all that BS in the early days of middlemen HMOs was how much money they were going to save employers, employees and anyone who needed healthcare insurance. Well? Where are THOSE savings? More BS. Then, every time an employer plan goes up for renewal, these beastly greedy HMOs are like vultures hovering over their prey. Their first step is to look around at their competition, check out what their competition’s rate increases will be and then? Tah dah…..Up go the employer’s and employees’ healthcare costs. The reeking odor of the misuse of HMO interpretation of “competition” was supposed to mean lower prices by allowing HMOs to be in competition WITH each other for lower rates. Instead, these greedy pigs are in competition with each other for the highest escalation of rates annually. Ergo, the increases in medical bankruptcies. Even worse, these greedy pigs then run like a tornado wind to their favorite crony politicians like Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor or Big Bull Boehner to seek assistance to keep their huge profits flowing.

    What else explains why hundreds of thousands in NY are getting 50% cuts in their healthcare insurance? What? These greedy pigs realized their days of caviar and champagne are over? Or, do they see that Americans are not, not, not going to allow them one dime more in profits they squeeze from rejected claims, dropped policies and outrageous annual renewal increases.

  • Dominick Vila

    The answer to the title of this article is simple: because the healthcare reform proposed by The Heritage Foundation was drafted and signed by a Democratic President. The likelihood of insurance premiums going down when – and if – ACA is implemented next year will be influenced by substantial increases in the number of insured Americans and by the creation of exchanges. Along the same lines, another important factor is going to be insurance companies competing to attract millions of new customers.
    The fact that Republicans are opposing and want to repeal a medical program that has overt capitalism as its centerpiece should not surprise anyone. Their focus during the last 4.5 years has been obstructionism, demonization, and doing everything they could to undermine the ability of a President they hate to govern effective and derail his agenda.
    One of the most perplexing arguments presented by those who oppose Obamacare is the fact that insurance premiums have been and continue to go up! Are they aware of the fact that cost containment is one of the most important goals of Obamacare, and that ACA will not be implemented until next year? I wonder if they realize that their argument confirms why ACA is needed…

    • angelsinca

      Outr healthcare premiums took a dramtic rise when ACA phase one was implemented three years ago (26 y/o coverage under parents). Next increase happened again with p[hase two. Phase 3 this year hit us hard; making our co-pays too high to pay. The deductibles are now twice what they were pre-ACA. Yes, the ACA is ‘containing’ cost increases alright (in someone’s idealistic dreams).

    • Fern Woodfork

      Just Think Of How Many Millions Of Our Hard Earned Tax Dollars The GOP/Tea Party Has Wasted Going After The ACA!! I Believe It’s Over 60 Million So Far!!

  • itsfun

    Since when, is being forced to pay a new tax for something I don’t want or need be called called competition. I worked for over 35 years with a company that provides my health insurance until I kick the bucket. Why should I be forced to pay for health care for somebody else? I am not against health care for those that don’t have it. Just leave mine alone and don’t make me pay for others.

    • disqus_ivSI3ByGmh

      Congratulations. You are one of the few people alive today with this benefit. However, if the company you worked for undergoes any restructuring you can kiss your retiree health benefit good bye. You are now “overhead” and will be one of the first concessions under whatever renegotiation takes place. Just like my father-in-law, my mother-in-law, his brother, and his sister-in-law. The company I work for provides “retiree” continuation health insurance for premiums that are about 35% higher than current employees pay, with higher deductible and copay rates. All I can say is when the time comes for my retirement Congress better still have VA benefits for those like me who served.

      • itsfun

        When and if that happens, I will join the socialized medicine plan.

        • charleo1

          Well, good. The rest of us will try to save it for you.
          In spite of your objections. How’s that? You’re
          welcome!

    • tobyspeeks

      I don’t own a car and I don’t want to pay for your roads. I don’t make garbage in your town and I don’t want to pay for your garbage collection. I don’t have kids and I don’t want to pay for your schools…..

      Do you see how stupid you sound?

      • itsfun

        nope. You must believe in Socialism like many others do now. Why pay for yourself, when you can get someone else to pay for you.

        • latebloomingrandma

          Do you even understand the concept of “insurance”? It is a business, and you always pay for somebody else.

        • TheSkalawag929

          That’s your problem. You don’t see how stupid your argument is while everyone around you does.

        • dpaano

          Itsfun: What you don’t seem to realize is that you are already paying for other people’s healthcare…..who do you think currently pays for the ER visits made by people who have no insurance? It’s the taxpayer….you and I. This is why ACA is great….everyone will be able to have insurance and pay for their OWN healthcare. The taxpayer won’t have to pay for it! Additionally, you aren’t paying a tax for healthcare….if you get your insurance through your employer, nothing will change for you.

      • BDC_57

        it don’t sound stupid if your a teabagging idiot like he is.

    • gmccpa

      Why? Others are paying for yours. You and your employer receive a tax break on your plan….its clearly subsidized by the Federal government.

      When health insurance is sold like car insurance…and everyone pays based on THEIR experience…then we can entertain the socialism issue. Otherwise, you are just fooling yourself.

      • angelsinca

        When car insurance became mandatory state by state, the backers also promised reduced costs. Same BS is being played out here.

    • jointerjohn

      You have been paying for others health care for decades, you have just been doing it under a very inefficient and expensive system. I would think you would be delighted over the employer and individual mandate provisions of ACA to get others to pay their own way!

    • TheSkalawag929

      President Obama is the reason you’re against the Affordable Health Care Law right?
      If he hadn’t backed it it would have been the greatest thing since sliced bread.
      You’ve worked for 35 years for one company. That leads me to believe that you are at or getting close to when you won’t have the luxury of choice between want and need.
      The reason why YOU should be forced to pay for YOUR health care is because just as you don’t want to pay for other people’s health care other people don’t want to pay for yours.

    • highpckts

      You already do pay for others! Every time someone without insurance goes to the emergency room for any kind of medical care, you pay in higher premiums! You don’t call that being “forced” to pay for someone else?

    • Lovefacts

      You really don’t understand the differences between Socialism and being a Representative Republic–which is what we are, not a Democracy. And I don’t have the time to explain them either, except to say in a Representative Republic we pay taxes or fees to support the common good–roads, schools, garbage collection, clean air and water, etc.

      As for you much vaunted health insurance, glad you have it and hope your company doesn’t decide to reorganize so it can cancel all existing pensions and contracts. Also, given how you feel, I take it you won’t want Medicare once you’re 65.

      As for expense, nothing’s more expensive to a country than having an uninsured population that the rest of us have to pay for when they seek help. Because you can bet your last dollar we taxpayers pick up the tab for each of their visits to the ER. Also, uninsured workers tend to show up when ill, thus increasing downtime and medical costs to those with insurance. Aside form not allowing insurance companies to cherry-pick their clients and not disallowing the companies use of pre-existing conditions–which includes women having periods–the ACA says is that if you are now uninsured you personally must have some type of coverage or pay a fine. And that businesses with 50+ fulltime workers must provide insurance–this takes effect in 2015.

      Your attitude confounds me. The ACA demands the uninsured to take part in insurance exchanges. It isn’t saying a blasted thing about you personally and your wonderful medical insurance. So, why do you begrudge medical insurance being available to those who haven’t been able to afford it. As for companies taking away insurance they were providing, that’s on them and those who supported union busting. But don’t worry, once you’re 65, you’ll have Medicare. Oh, my, that’s a Socialist program and you hate everything that smacks of Socialism.

    • Lynda Groom

      itsfun, your company provided health care system is what you claim to be against. You ask why you should be forced to pay for health care for somebody else…and without thinking that those who work with you are also paying for yours after certainly after you retire. That’s socialism.

      • itsfun

        My health insurance is something I earned after 35 years of working for that company. My health care is not free, I pay a rate equal to what people still working do. I don’t have a problem with taxes paying for people that can’t provide for their selves. I have a problem with every Tom, Dick, and Harry that believe they deserve a free ride we should pay for. This new system is going to have so many problems and cost so much, it is scary. Already, the President is delaying implementation of parts of it, also, the government has stopped helping people with a pre-existing condition because of the cost. This program could destroy the 40 hour work week because of the companies that have already started to lay off workers or make them work under 30 hours. These kinds of things happen when congress passes a bill without even bothering to read it and find out what is in it.

  • FT66

    Why republicans hate Obamacare? Quite easy to answer. It is all about being greedy and selfishness. No sense of thinking about their fellow citizens who are in dire of having it. Also as soon as Obamacare is in place, it will cut off money lines used to flow to them.

    • angelsinca

      Great imagination. When you accuse half your nation’s contrymen of being greedy and selfish, you really ought to educate yourself beyond the one-sided bigoted liberal media talking points. You are describing democrat politicians.

      • FT66

        This is the last time am using my precious time to answer you an empty head individual. You have no clue how to make a dialogue, instead you go on attacking only. Go away and never make any comment on what I write.

        • angelsinca

          You didn’t waste a second of your precious time to defend your claim that republicans are greedy and selfish. Not that your claims are an attack on conservatives. Hypocrisy at its idiotic best. Sorry to have disrupted your special needs, Einstein.

  • charleo1

    The main quarrel of the GOP aganist ObamaCare is we can’t afford it.
    And outside of their core base, who have a taste for the more, “birther,” kinds
    of justifications to oppose it. There is concern about the costs. If they will go
    beyond the ability of those that now have insurance, to afford it themselves.
    It’s understandable. As 80% of Americans now have insurance. And, if you have children, and type one diabetes, as my oldest daughter does, this is serious
    business. But for any family, any person, it’s serious business. It’s become
    clear to most ACA is going to happen, and there is still lots, and lots of questions
    to be answered. The first one is how will this effect me, and my family? Will my
    insurance become more expensive? Will my doctor still have the time to properly
    care for my family, with all the new people coming into the system? Will my taxes
    go up? Is this a new welfare program? Will my doctor continue to take my insurance? Are they robbing my Medicare benefits? The topic is opaque for most. And there has not been a need to learn much of anything about health insurance. For most Americans, it comes with their job. Their employer picks the product. The Dad, or Mom hopes the new co-pays won’t increase too much, and that’s it. Now, what’s this garbage about the government forcing me to buy it now? I have it!
    Don’t these politicians ever get tired of looking for new ways to mess with my life? One could say, ACA is a bit ahead of it’s time. Because, if things were as bad now, as they are going to get, if we don’t act. it would be a much easier sell.
    But for those 50 million, Americans, who find themselves already on the wrong side of the insurance door, health reform can’t come soon enough. Those with homes, and retirement savings. Especially after the great recession, where these folks with preexisting conditions, through no fault on their own, realize they were permanently laid off, and are uninsurable, at any price they can pay. That shouldn’t happen.
    Most are not so selfishly motivated they don’t agree. Yes, something must be done. But, don’t hurt me. That’s understandable. The sale of President Obama’s landmark achievement is, I believe yet to be made. Sales 101. Understand the client’s objections, and concerns. Overcome them. Instill the client with the confidence to
    buy. Explain clearly how the plan will benefit the client personally. Make the sale!

    • angelsinca

      After four years into it, we shouldn’t still have so many questions. But we do. Terrible job of selling. The more we see of the ppACA, the more no one really knows its effects, positive or negative. From a conservative POV, it’s NOT just about the cost, or puching $800 billion of medicare costs onto the states, or the rising insurance premiums, or the lies about its positive effects and avoidance of its negatives. It’s also about the devious way it was forced down out throats by the Democrat super majority. and the need for a ruling by the SCOTUS to clarify the deception of the no-buy penalty fine (tax).

      • charleo1

        Most people have questions that never get answered to their
        satisfaction. Because, the answers are treated much like
        Obama’s birth certificate. As soon as the answers are presented,
        there is an Orly Taiz, standing there claiming that’s a lie! No, they
        are lying about that! Insurance premiums are not going down! You
        know all those 12 million Mexicans Obama won’t deport? Now,
        you’re going to be paying for their healthcare! And you must be
        at least honest here about a couple of things. One, if everyone
        didn’t want it crammed down their throats. Ot thought it was.
        We had a Presidential
        election, and one of the choices was a fellow that promised to
        kill ObamaCare, day one. And he lost. Two, SCOTUS ruled the
        mandatory requirements in the law were Constitutional, in that
        they essentially were a tax, and not a fine.

        • angelsinca

          Your point 1 (selliing the ACA). It hasn’t happened. The excuse that people will doubt the aqnswers is still not selling it.

          Your point 2 (Obama was elected). Romneys loss wasn’t a mandate by The People to charge ahead with a flawed ACA. It was a successful re-election bid for Obama. You got your man. We still have a POS healthcare scheme that has become so unpopular that Democrats fear further implementaion will cause them to lose control of the Senate in the 2014 elections.

          Your point 3 (SCUTOS ruling). The supremes only ruled on one provision of the ACA. The one that showed that the bill’s authors and Obama were afraid to tell the truth to the people that we were going to be taxed heavily to pay for their scheme IF we refused to comply with the mandate to purchase it.

          • charleo1

            You need to learn more about this. Kaiser is a good source.
            It will tell you the penalties, I don’t imagine you’ll ever need
            worry about. Unless, you can afford ins. Don’t have any.
            And won’t buy any. Know what your fine/tax would be?
            First year: $96.00 It goes up, but not much. And cannot be

            collected by any means other than from tax return money.
            It’s written in the law. I’ve read that part.

          • angelsinca

            You really should learn mon more Charlie. You dropped a zero from the fine..er ‘tax’ amount for gaming the system. The IRS can (and will) attach wages and/or seize asets with liens whenever a tax burden is due. We have been paying for health insurance for decades and thanks to the ACA, our premiums have risen along with co-pays and deductibles to the point we can’t afford sevices anymore. Thanks for nothing.

  • jointerjohn

    Today’s republican party has twisted the definition of “conservative” to the point it is no longer even valid. True conservatives would back same sex marriage on the grounds that it’s none of the government’s business who you sleep with. True conservatives would support equal pay for women, defend their right to make their own reproductive decisions, and staunchly defend the separation of church and state. True conservatives would support the right of workers to organize for collective bargaining. These republicans are not conservatives they are phoneys.

    • Lovefacts

      No, not phonies. Given their increasing taste of controlling everyone’s life, they come closer to tyrants. As for capitalism, they wouldn’t know it if they fell across it. What today’s Republicans actually support is laissez-faire–no rules, no regulations, everyone out for themselves.

  • howa4x

    We are missing the gorilla in the room, Wall St. Under both the old insurance system and the new one the ins companies are publically with one major difference. Prior to Obama/Romney care, insurance companies sent the 1st 20% of profit to Wall St. This in turn provided huge profits to investors. Insurance stocks were guaranteed a huge return(ROI) In order to keep that 20 % profit margin, so their stock wouldn’t be down graded, the ins co went to managed care, and through that began to deny payment for medical procedures, using the justification of pre existing conditions, delay payment, to hospitals, and drop marginally healthy people from coverage. The most egregious example of this was when Aetna’s stock was down graded because the ROI was only 18.5%. They responded by kicking 8.5 million off of coverage.
    The major change now is that the insurance companies can’t drop or deny coverage for pre existing conditions, removal of the lifetime cap, and they have to spend 80% of your premiums on patient care. If they don’t they have to refund the difference to you, and add to that there is competition now, driving down profits. Wall st was furious since they lost the potential to make billions off your illness. They went to the republicans and cried on the loss of the future funds. Republicans who are out rightly owned by the Street, and went on the offensive to repeal the act and go back to the way it was, to restore profits to Wall st and allow the insurance companies to run your care with their profit as the only motive. Once you understand this it is easier to see Republican motives.

    • Lovefacts

      Wonderfully put. Thank you for saying it so concisely.

    • DukeDacat

      Great explanation: The Wall Street and Insurance Companies connection, gambling with rate payers premiums

  • highpckts

    It isn’t competition they want! It is Obama’s bill and that is poison!

  • Lovefacts

    Instead of Obama Care, I wish we’d had Medicare for everyone. It would have been an easy sell because all Americans, excepting Republican politicians and insurance companies, know and love Medicare. The deductions would be from payroll as they are now, only they would include the children and spouses–if the spouse isn’t working. Then we Americans could buy a secondary medical insurance policy as most people on Medicare already do. In addition, the government could deduct a specified amount form aid to dependent children payments and welfare. That way, everyone would be covered and because those under 45 have few medical issues, the program would remain solvent.

  • ObozoMustGo

    I just wanted to offer my congratulations to all of you DemonRATS!!!! Nice work!!! Well done!!!. You’ve finally moved Detroit over the brink of disaster and into bankruptcy with 50+ years of near 100% DemonRAT rule. This had to be your objective. After all, with the exception of the real useful idiots (many on here) no one, not even yourselves actually believe that socialist DemonRAT policies do anything but result in the destruction of the civil society and an economy. DETROIT IS EXAMPLE 1 OFTHE FAILURE OF DEMONRAT POLICIES AND IDEAS. Of course, knowing how stupid most of you are, your little pea brains will think that the cure to Detroit’s ills will be much more of exactly what caused them in the first place because progressive liberalism is the disease that presents itself as its own cure.

    Congratulations, once more, on a glorious victory in the intentional destruction of an American city. Next stop, support for Obozo in his attempts to turn America into one giant Detroit!

    Have a nice weekend!

    “When men once get the habit of helping themselves to the property of others,” warned the New York Times in 1909 about the proposed federal income tax, “they are not easily cured of it.’”

    • DukeDacat

      Go back and crawl in your hole….TROLL………..
      I thought we were rid of you after the 2012 election…
      YOU LOST!!!!

    • charleo1

      Feel better? You sound like just another Bagger fool. Totally clueless,
      and happily ignorant, of the real causation of Detroit’s, and the Country’s
      economic problems. What a treat it must be for the partisan simpleton.
      The volcano erupts! We must have angered the Gods! Quickly, a virgin!
      Could the vulcanologist explain Teutonic Plates to the Shaman?
      It’s the Democrats then, and not the Communist Marxists, in China.
      With their endless supply of cheap, voiceless labor, harnessed by their American Corporate Partners, that has left one of America’s great cities
      in such dire straits. Celebrate! Fool, Celebrate! It’s the Democrats!

      • ObozoMustGo

        Chuckie… if this were a court where DemonRATS were on trial for damage their ideology has created, Detroit would be the star witness against you!!! 50 YEARS OF ONE PARTY CONTROL — ALL DEMONRATS!!!!!

        Have a nice day!

        “The Great Depression, like most other periods of severe unemployment, was produced by government mismanagement rather than by any inherent instability of the private economy.” – Milton Friedman, Capitalism and Freedom

        • charleo1

          As I said, you are a simpleton. As close to the proverbial
          fish in a barrel, as a low level, propagandist in training,
          could wish for. Peruse the morning headlines. Take the
          worst story available, and mention there were Democrats rumored to be present, around the time of the disaster.
          Exactly!! Your, “end stinks,” has been verified again!

          • ObozoMustGo

            uhhhhh….. chuckie… “DemonRATS rumored to be present”????? Are you kidding? The DemonRATS have been 100% in control of the human disaster called Detroit for 50+ years. What the hell is wrong with you. Can you not see what the DemonRATS hath wrought? Detroit is an abject lesson is what happens when leftist freaks get their way.

            Have a nice day!

          • Pelu Maad

            You never seem to say exactly how Dems are to blame. There’s a lot of intelligent exchange happening here….surely you can present your ideas and join in….???
            LOL!!!!

          • ObozoMustGo

            Are you serious? Really? The DemonRATS have had 100% control over EVERY SINGLE program and policy in Detroit for 50 years. The evidence of destruction is as plain to all the world as the nose on your face. And yet, you ask for proof???????
            bwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhahahahhahahahhaha!!!
            Dude, that’s funny! hehehehehhehehe
            Have a nice day!

          • Pelu Maad

            The Dems controlled the auto industry?
            When chatting with the mindless, I always ask for specifics….it stumps you fools every time.

          • ObozoMustGo

            uhhhh… hey stupid… do you think that maybe, just maybe, the governmental policies and corruption, a negative business environment, crime, and taxes combined with oppressive unions and artificially high costs have contributed to encouraging businesses, not just auto, to seek other more friendly and lower cost environments to operate? Of course they do. Just like you have freedom to live and work where you want, so do they. And it is the political structure that creates the environment, and by extension the culture, that either attracts investment or discourages it, scares it away. This simple principle seems to escape you leftist freaks who think bureaucrats are the master minds that should tell everyone else what to do and how to run their businesses. Newsflash for you –> Reward failure with expansive welfare and resdistributionist programs and decent people and businesses flee. Detroit is THE perfect example of the failure of DemonRAT policies after decades of attempts to implement utopic solutions to social problems which were exacerbated by those very same programs. After all, liberalism is the disease that presents itself as its own cure. In otherwords, liberalism, progressivism, socialism (whatever you wish to call your ideas) is the very definition of insanity!

            Have a nice day!

            “Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannize but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.” ― Alexis de Tocqueville

          • Pelu Maad

            “Oppressive unions?”………LOL……like the one that insured my decent salary and comfortable retirement? LOL…
            Go away kid….you bother me….

          • Pelu Maad

            Do you think Larry Summers is a commie like “Obozo”?

          • charleo1

            You’re speaking of the poster, “Obozo here, I presume?
            No, I honestly don’t believe either are Communists.
            Summers, former CEO of Goldman Sachs is essentially a
            corporatists. And politically Right Wing. So, I don’t know if
            he views corporate behavior as effecting the balance of
            world power. Most of them seem to think every thing’s for
            sale, and they control the money. So, they take little interest
            in politicians per say. Other than buying them when necessary.
            Obozo, like far too many supporters of the corporate wing
            of the GOP, are taught, or just choose to ignore the obvious.
            It is the $60.00 dollar a month Communist labor, that has both wounded our economy, and served to increase the need for
            Government assistance here at home. And, of course enriched, and thereby empowered the Communist Governments, and dictatorships across the third world. Preferring to blame unions, or regulations, Democratic Party policies, or even the work ethic of labor in this Country. For basically losing a wage competition battle, they couldn’t have possible won in the first place. So, “Obozo,” isn’t an anything.
            but misinformed.

          • Pelu Maad

            Yes….but how does a wingNUT like “ObozoMustGo” rationalize the president being a commie when he nominates capitalists like Summers, Geithner, Lew….. to federal positions?

        • Pelu Maad

          There is a Democratic ideology……REALLY?

          • ObozoMustGo

            Have you not read Karl Marx’s ‘Communist Manifesto’? Or Plato’s ‘Republic”? Or Hobbes’ ‘Leviathan’? or More’s ‘Utopia’? Really? You don’t recognize a socialist ideology focused on class warfare and income redistributionist policies? Really???

            Are you just playing stupid on me? Of course the DemonRATS have an ideology. Listen to their rhetoric.

            Have a nice day!

          • Pelu Maad

            Nice list…..I don’t see your point but….wow….you sure are well read….for a tea bagger. Do you really think the Dems are Marxists? Can you make an argument to back that….with specifics?

          • ObozoMustGo

            WOW!!! You are pretty stupid. You deny what is right in front of your face. This is symptomatic of leftist freak thinking, and is reflective of the nature of leftist freaks to deny learning from history as though charting a new course “forward” means that you are somehow smarter than all of those that came before you. You are not! You are ignorant.

            I’ll give you one example: Obozo’s favorite saying over the years was “millionaires and billionaires aren’t paying their ‘fair’ share”. Every time the slug opens his fetid pie hole, it’s class warfare. Compare Obozo’s statements and rhetoric to the following statement by Karl Marx: “from each accoding to his abilities to each according to his needs.” Obozo’s own rhetoric is nothing more than a modern repackaging of the age-old proletariat vs. the bourgeois bullsheet. How this is compeltely oblivious to you is only puzzling to anyone that is NOT an Obozo zombie.

            Good luck pulling your head from your a$$. It’s been up there so long you likely think your sheet smells like roses.

            Have a nice day!

            “Individual actions, individual dreams, are not sufficient. We must unite in collective action, build collective institutions and organizations.” ~ Barrack Hussein Obozo in a 1995 interview with a now defunct leftist Chicago journal

          • Pelu Maad

            LOL……calm down, clown. You don’t like Obama much….I get it.
            What do you like? What ideas for solving problems appeal to you? Surely someone who is brilliant enough to see “Obozo” for the Marxist he is must have a few better ideas…??? It’s not like hate is all you’re capable of………or…is it?

    • Pelu Maad

      LOL……please cancel my above request for explanation. I can see that hating takes all of your energy.

  • Pamby50

    When I lost my job and cobra ran out, I had to go to the county for my medical needs. I have a neuromuscular disease. Medicines for that are no cheap. I was put on disability and had to wait 2 yrs to get medicare. Those 2 yrs were the most stressful ones of my life. I wanted medicare for all. We got the AHCA or more popularly known as Obamacare. I can live with this. My son works in the restaurant industry. They offer little or no benefits. My daughter works for a small company. Still not much choice. They are both healthy but you never know what is around the corner.

  • ObozoMustGo

    “If I had a city… it would look like Detroit.” – Barack Hussein Obozo

    • Lynda Groom

      His comment of saving Detroit referred to the auto industry, not the financial distress of an ever shrinking major city.

    • DukeDacat

      Go back and crawl in your hole….TROLL………..
      I thought we were rid of you after the 2012 election… YOU LOST!!!!

      • angelsinca

        Not really the mark of a troll. More like an off-topic spammer.

    • Pelu Maad

      Do you have any details on the “fail”….???? You don’t like having a “black” president…..I get that….but, is there anything rational behind your need to express yourself?

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